[Music] Dylan thank you so much for joining me and welcome to the podcast thank you Anie hi all uh this is is this your first live podcast this is my first ever live podcast also uh a big thank you to the conf big team who set up this crazy Studio I had no idea this was going to happen I feel like I'm in my studio here with a thousand people watching us uh it's very impressive I I very much dig the background and also the mics that may or may not be wired anything right don't don't say that don't tell people sorry there's no wires coming out of them there's no one behind the curtain either okay so Dylan I want to start by just checking in on how you're doing so config is about to wrap up we've been at it for two days now I know how much lift goes into doing these sorts of things I imagine you've been thinking about this for a long time now I'm just curious how you're doing any surprises any highlights any low lights uh the Highlight is the community and just the incredible incredible people here at config yeah y'all are awesome I don't know why I keep talking in the mic like this it's instinctual um but seriously it's just the most amazing Community to be part of and uh I I feel so lucky and then um in terms of how I'm doing this exact moment like exhausted but riding on caffeine and whatever this like really cool probiotic drink is any surprises from the past couple days anything that's like oh wow that went a lot better than I thought maybe less well um yeah I mean like you know demo uh definitely things I would have improved uh but also like the uh Amil and Mika were phenomenal uh and it was it was just like so awesome to see them do their demos and present materials and then um yeah I was just really pleased with the conversation I think that's getting started at config around AI um and uh I think that you know I was looking online um on social media and I think people are already kind of like zero in the right conversation which is yeah okay in a world of you know more software being created by AI what does that mean and you know the impact on craft and the impact on quality and the uh need to have more unique design and how design is a differentiator and I think some people are saying I agree with that some people are saying that I disagree with that and that's exactly the bounds of um what the conversation I kind of imagined would emerge uh from yesterday um you know it was funny the make design feature you know we I think I said on in the keynote I was like this is going to give you the most obvious thing in the most obvious form possible and then people online are like it's just going to give you some obvious thing I agree let's keep talking about design you once said that the definition of design is Art applied to problem solving can you just add a bit more to that what do you mean by that because that's an amazing line well I I I don't think it's my original line someone else said it but um there's a lot of definitions of design out there too I mean there's also design as dialogue or design is problem solving you just go straight there um I could go with like 10 more but uh uh but yeah I like I like art app applied to problem solving because I think that um design is often uh there is some component of creativity to it and unique expression that you're trying to provide and create and put out into the world but you are also trying to do it and match it to a user need a problem that needs to be solved and I I think that um it's not pure art and if you but if you lose the art and you're just solving the problem like it's totally utilitarian and it has um it it lacks soul and so the combination of those two things uh is to me really beautiful I'm going to Pivot to a very hard-hitting question I hope your PR people don't kill me for asking you this many people ask me to ask you this question okay very important please explain a figma tradition called raccoon feet and muffin hands okay um I should probably just leave this interview now no uh okay so the this is a a a conversation I'm not sure exactly where it started but it was started in early figma and basically we had these um lunch tables at figma where we would just kind of all gather and have very long interesting Meandering conversations before we got back to work and uh one of the questions that was a would you rather was would you rather have raccoons for feet or muffins for hands and I I think this is this is a deeply philosophical question uh I've pondered it uh since I've heard it I still don't have one answer if you've got an answer I'm what it is I've got follow-up questions are the did the raccoon uh can you control where the raccoon take you or are they just deciding on their own what's happening I think that raccoons um probably wouldn't even agree with each other where to go okay that's complicated uh I mean if if you had raccoons for feet right now do you think that it would interfere with this podcast but uh muffin hands would also interfere with my news letter and I feel like I'd be out of work I don't know if you can type I need a special keyboard okay this is very difficult you haven't even thought about the upsides of this yet yeah what are the upsides we could get there it's but maybe you could eat some of case for optimism cupcakes yeah if you have muffins for hands you know maybe if you're hungry do they regenerate as as you eat them that's a good question okay there's no answers here just questions do your nails grow yeah oh okay interesting it's deeper than you might think okay okay um I'm going to play a short clip with Rick Ruben and then I have a question about it okay so we'll see if that plays but exactly what he does and how is difficult to describe do you play instruments barely do you know how to work a sound board no they have no technical ability and I know nothing about music you must know something well I know what I like and what I don't like and I'm I'm decisive about what I like and what I don't like so what are you being paid for the confidence that I have in my taste and my ability to express what I feel has proven helpful for artists Okay so I'm not going to say this is you need to grow the beard but I think this is a little bit you because what I've heard from a number of your colleagues is that one of your superpowers is intuition and product taste and someone said that you have the sixth sense for what's going to work when you're designing figma and you're making decisions in the product so I'm curious how you've built and refined your intuition and product taste when it comes to figma and then even broadly that's a lot Kinder than I thought you're were going to be I thought you're G to be like you don't know how to code and you don't know how to design no um but um uh no I I I mean I think um the here's my framework for it I think intuition is like a hypothesis generator and uh you're constantly generating these hypothesis and others are generating hypotheses as well and you then take these hypotheses and you put them forward and you debate them and you try to find data to support them or negate them and then you win it down into like what is our working hypothesis and from that uh you move forward I heard that you read every tweet that mentions figma and share them with folks and there's a slack Channel rep Pac them I imagine that is a part of this where you're just constantly watching what people are saying about figma what people are complaining about I mean I I yeah I I definitely look everywhere I'm trying to constantly ingest information about figma uh and it's not just like Twitter SLX whatever that's called now uh but you know anywhere on the internet support channels Etc um and yeah I'm always trying to understand I also ask a lot of questions um and I try to get to root problems and understand where people are coming from and what are they actually trying to solve uh sometimes people are are saying hey I need X but they really want y or Z and you know trying to do that myself and kind of engage and dive deeper there but also to encourage our team to do that uh I think leads to you know really good outcomes in terms of what we ship uh is there something you've changed your mind about kind of building on that uh either based on customer feedback or some employee just like making a case and like okay you're right there something comes to mind if something you've changed in mind about recently um somebody said fly you started out fli uh I have not I it's pick my slides um I well it's not recent but like one good example of me changing my mind uh is that you all have pages in figma you're welcome um but like I I think I have deep skepticism about Pages still like I'm not I'm not sure they're like if you could freeze time and I could just go and with my team work on figma for a very long time um I'm not sure we'd come to the same implementation of pages that we are at today m uh I just don't think it's like the most elegant solution in the context of like the entire system of product design that you could create the world told me and our team that that did not matter and they needed pages and don't worry we're not unshipping Pages uh but but yeah I'm I'm still very skeptical of them uh and I think that in general probably my team would tell you that um I don't always changed my mind but I also I I like build trust in people in deep ways and I think across our organization if things are not going to be fatal then if I hear from someone hey I really think we should do X then I'll say okay just go with it and here my here's my feedback here's what I'm skeptical of let's see what happens and then you know Sometimes they come back to me and they're like see I was right but but usually they're pretty polite about it just to just to build on that something a lot of people uh try to work on is being good at influencing leadership exec cosos what do you find helps you help Works to change your mind what do people come to you with that helps you like okay you're actually right I think the more concrete an artifact is or the more you can debate something the better uh I like ask for examples a lot I try to ask follow of questions about things um and make sure I fully understand it and I think where I get stuck sometimes if I like ask follow questions and we don't have answers yet and then my response might be let's go find the answer to these questions and then let's go back to this conversation if I think it's something that's really important and I think for some people they might go okay this this is actually really obvious like I can't believe you're so dense and you don't get it yet uh and sometimes they're right and they come back and they're like okay here's the data now can we move on um and we do we move on and they're right and uh uh and yeah I I just think that um it's it's important though to just really understand something from first principles uh for for a lot of decisions and maybe it's just a perfectionist quality but uh repeat it over time I think it's it it leads to good outcomes uh as long as you make sure it's not bottlenecking the organization okay so kind of following up on that let's talk about product management okay so last year you had Brian chesky here I think maybe on the stage maybe a bigger stage and he he kind of said that they got rid of product management at Airbnb and everyone cheered and all the PMS were very sad and he didn't actually mean they got rid of product management they changed the function and evolved it I'm curious just to get your take yeah it's funny um let see we have you here letting you so you know that's your answer know yeah I had him on the after all surpris we're still here we're still here um I want to get your take on product management uh you all have amazing product managers at figma I've had three of them on the podcast already I'm curious just what value you find the best product managers bring to figma it was really funny uh last year after that interview so Yuki uh our chief product officer had invited me to a dinner for our PM team and you know it took a while to get out of config uh at the end of the day and I uh I eventually made it the dinner but I was like 40 minutes late and I walk in and mahika uh who was on stage yesterday presenting uh slides figma slides slide slides uh she was she was like standing up and doing a mock uh Brian chesky impersonation and she she's like standing up in front of the entire proct and she goes and then Brian chesk is like there don't need to be any PMs and Dylan's like ooh and I'm like hi M and you know I never seen her so red uh and then I gave like a you know like quick hey PM team I believe in you thank you for your hard work uh no but seriously I I um uh I think that if you kind of zoom out it's always tricky when ever you're asked to formally Define what is the separation between a product manager a designer and an engineer it's it's always hard to actually create those clear lines and I think in many organizations they're blurry but at the end of the day you know a PM and designer they need to have some technical expertise or at least understand how this systems work uh to probably create the best things they can possibly make um you know a designer engineer they should probably have some sense of the business objectives they should have some sense of what users want um an engineer and a product manager they should have you know taste and craft and uh and and some sense of the option space and uh some ability to care about or or desire to care about the visual implementation um so I I and I think you can include research in there too if you want to make it four legs of the stool rather than the trio uh and you can talk about you know all three probably should have exposure to users and be talking and in dialogue with users so so I think that um if you think about sort of that that group holistically each is important if you think about a team there's all these qualities that you have to have to make a great product and that said I think for product managers and the product function what I think it sometimes when you see people that fall down on that function is because they treat it too much like process uh which is very important too don't me wrong good process uh can help support good outcomes but I think that you can't lose sight of the problems that you're solving you have to go talk to users and you have to actually have a strategy and if you're really good you should have a point of view and some point of views are going to lead to good outcomes and some point of views aren't and there's some so some T sends a taste and you also have to bring everyone together and make sure that they get to the objective that it's celebrated uh and that at the end of the project or when you complete a milestone everyone's stoked otherwise it's not going to be a team that gels you're not going to get to the next outcome even if you know you get to an outcome and you know it's Milestone but if everyone's unhappy like you kind of failed and so somehow good product people are able to do all this and they're able to create great Frameworks that bring everyone along with them and so everyone's able to have a shared headp space around what it is they're trying to get to someone once said that if a PM if PM's disappeared or if a PM goes on vacation uh everything's okay for like a week or two or three and then things start to crumble a little bit because they're they kind of glue everything together do you I don't know do you find that sort of thing let me actually ask a different question along those lines are you bearish or bull on the future of product management do you think PMS will continue the way they are do you think PMS will dwindle any sense of the future of product management um I I think probably everyone's learning to do a bit more of everyone else's job in this current moment uh that said I definitely think there's still immense value uh in product immense value in design immense value in engineering and so I think those roles will continue to exist so maybe just I just want to come back to the question of just the what the best PMS that you work with do you find what value do they most bring I guess is there anything that's like here's what would be gone if we didn't have these PMS the best PMS I think uh again create those Frameworks that bring everyone else along and those Frameworks also have a point of view and a strategy associated with them so you're able to kind of like take the strategy take the point of view wrap it all up in a framework and then make it so that uh everyone knows what the destination is and how to how to get there awesome okay so kind of along these lines something I've heard you're really big on is simplification uh somebody told me that when you're in a designer View and things just feel too complex to you uh quote you Furrow your brow and insist there must be something simpler why is simplification so top of mind for you why is it so important for you and just why is it so hard to do oh gosh um well I think probably anyone here who's like worked on product knows how hard it is uh it's I think the the more that you add uh the harder it is to create something that's coherent um you know the one one essay that Evan my co-founder introduced me to early on in famous history uh I think from uh Stevie's drunken blog grants or something like that uh contains the term irreducible complexity and it's basically this idea that like 1 plus 1 does not equal three it's sometimes equals like one and a half uh and the more that you add and the more that you continue to put in something um the more complex it gets and the worse it gets and I think this is definitely true for tools so in the context of figma uh we can make it more powerful but to do that in a way that's not making it more complex at the same time is extremely hard and we have to always be paying attention to how complex or how simple things are uh because if we don't it just kind of becomes a monstrosity really fast and there's parts of our product that like I I don't want to dive into that part of the conversation the self-critique but uh um definitely like as I'm in conversation with a bunch of our product leaders at figma there's Parts where it's like okay this thing is too complex as a system and we made like all the right local decisions and yet together they're too complex and they're not working anymore and let's go revisit the system now is there anything I know you just redesigned figma I imagine part of that came from things are just getting too complicated not as simple as we want is there anything that's been like the bugging you in the old figma they're like oh this is way too complicated I really want to simplify this thing yes okay what's that move on but I I many things okay sounds good um okay and in terms of how to keep things simple uh so I had dares Shaw on the podcast he's the co-founder of Hub spots and the way he described it is that always fighting the second law through more dynamics of entropy just the product getting more complicated and he kind of sees it himself as part of the solution if you top down you have to like be on top of that is that the way you see it like that's kind of your role to keep things simple do you think people further down the ladder can do that or I don't know how absolutely yeah everyone's responsible for Simplicity and I think another quote that is not mine but is a really good one is you know keep the simple things simple make the complex things possible I think that's a really important uh uh principle to hold as your design tools um and I'd say that uh it's really easy to make the simple things complex unfortunately okay I want to Pivot to talking about early days figma sure so I don't know how many people know this but it took three and a half years to launch figma from when you're beginning to work on it wait too long don't do that okay this is this is my question so it took three and a half years to launch and then five years to get your first customer uh Dylan what the hell were you doing all that time I don't think it took five years for first well okay first paid customers yeah okay fine um slightly less but but approximately five years I guess if you round up um I I mean I think that you know if if we had if I had been probably better at hiring and recruiting like if not I see na in the audience um making eye contact with her the entire time for some reason she's our our chief people officer if she had been at figma from day one we would have hired probably faster and and uh and we would would have gotten to Market faster but I think that um yeah it was it was a hard product uh to build and to get everything to come together with I also see show um and uh I think for uh sh has joined us as a director of engineering he's a vpa product now again people can wear many hats um and he was someone that joined figma and uh said hey yall need to ship this thing you're really close um and he really helped catalyze us to ship in that moment and you I think he in week one he gave a presentation it was like here's what we got to do here's the Gap everyone agrees on it let's go so and so you already said that you wish you shipped earlier is there any advice there for just people building something today of get it out as fast as you possibly can um like everything they tell you about uh you know making sure that you get a product out really quickly is totally true the faster you get out the more feedback you get that is a positive thing and um now I I index on that when we try to build and fig Jam is a great example that we shipped it incredibly fast um and it helped us get to Market and get feedback faster figma slides great example that too Dev mode for what it's worth it took us longer uh we just had to keep iterating and building it and building it again uh you know certain directions we tried didn't work out and we really had to get to a place where we were able to um really believe that we were adding value and really understood the developer user and it just didn't happen for a long time so it's it's interesting because I think people look at De mode and sometimes they go oh this is this is quite simple to the point about Simplicity um you know figma uh like like what is this is this a simp than fig Jam you know the reality was it took like at least three times as long so you your advice is ship quickly there's also this kind of push that but hold a bar for sure that's that's kind of the question I have is there's also a lot of talk of just like the bar has risen uh you need especially bdb software craft is really important you like linear talks a lot about this just like the bar is very high for people to switch from something out there is there anything I don't I don't know I don't think you'll have like here's the answer when you're ready to ship but just any advice of just like here's good enough versus like no you should probably wait well you know another thing that Evan taught me was that um for a new launch you got quality features deadline choose too and uh I think that the beautiful thing about software is you can keep iterating on it so it's not like a physical product where you have to always have quality in there otherwise it's never going to have quality you can ship it with features and deadline and then improve it iteratively over time I'm not saying you should always do that sometimes you need to at least have a minimum bar of quality for the things you have and you're going to ship less features maybe uh so you choose Fe you know quality and deadline and sometimes you say actually here's the minimum feature set and we're going to have this Quality Bar and you're willing to push it out but I think you have to know when you're introducing a new thing what it's going to take and then uh to make that minimally awesome product but also when you're um yeah I think that that um when you're iteratively improving it like you shouldn't just be focused on the features you have to focus on the quality too uh I like this term use minimally awesome product love it um the okay so the way you got your early users for figma is quite fascinating I don't know how many people know this story but you basically wrote a script to scrape Twitter and create a graph of the most influential designers on Twitter and then you made it your mission to convince them to use figma and make them evangelists uh is there anything more to the story there and then I have a question about kind of along those lines yeah I mean uh you can't do this anymore first of all uh because the Twitter API doesn't exist anymore um rest in peace Twitter API uh but um I mean look I was uh internet LinkedIn and when I was there I saw uh some really cool work people done with geffy uh which was a sort of network visualization tool and based on that uh I thought it'd be interesting to try to like you said look at who the disign network was was who the central nodes were which you can just run page rank on and see uh and you can do that for other communities too which I I have did in the past I just because I'm curious about social network Dynamics and social network analysis uh and um and you could just like do those things back in 2012 2013 when figma started uh so yeah so I I kind of constructed this list of like here are the most Central designers in the graph but also then I like looked at their work and the ones that I was really inspired by and like as a total Fanboy and someone who like wanted to learn as much as I could about design uh was inspired by these folks the ones I was inspired by I reached out to and said hey can I buy your coffee and most them were really kind the design Community is amazing and uh they said yes and then from there was able to learn from them show them figma get their feedback and uh I think it started honestly more as like a me fanboying me G feed back I mean one example is Tim vanam uh you know I saw him on dribble you know Max volar I'm like oh my God this guy is just genius these icons are incredible like I I think um the first time I met Tim was a Dropbox and uh like I had this total Fanboy moment I'm like I've been tracing your icons it's like hi um and I'd been working on vectan networks with with a team team and uh my my test cases were like a lot of his icons MH um and uh cuz they were just like beautiful and I like looking at them and studying them and you know to now have Tim on the team and have him like doing the icons for ui3 is like such an honor and like privilege to work with someone of that craft uh but yeah um so reaching out to your hero sometimes works it's interesting because when people hear that story when I've heard that story many times it was always like here's a growth act find the most influential people in your field go TR try to convince them to use your product and the way you're describing it is you're using it more as feedback I just want to show you the product get your feedback make this better and then ended up working they're like oh I love figma I'm going to use it well I think it especially works for designers that way because designers are really good at giving feedback like it turns out that not everyone is good at giving feedback uh but yeah designers are are awesome at that so we're really lucky and I mean literally you know early on in figma's existence folks uh I think p rabi is here somewhere uh I'm not sure if he's in this room but um I was hoping to see him before the end of config you know Pam wrote like a very long DOC for us about all the things that he wanted to see in figma uh after we did like a a user research study with him um with a bottle of wine because our our text editing didn't work very well then so I ran him through the user study and knew we'd need a bottle of wine to finish and it took like hours cuz the type of sentence in figma was so slow that reminds me of a story I've heard where uh your one of your first customers was Koda sponsor I think of config used to be called Krypton uh and there's a story where you installed figma you helped them get set up you drove home and then they called you like hey figma's not working anymore and you drove back like yourself to help fix them and it turn ended up their Wi-Fi was down right or there was a Wi-Fi issue is that the story I don't remember what the solution was but uh heard but yeah it was like we were like halfway home uh and uh somehow I saw I'm sure I was not looking at my email while driving uh definitely is not something anyone here should do uh but yeah somehow found out that that they were had an issue and we turned the car around yeah they were um shashir Is Amazing by the way and like has been a mentor for a long time to me and many people on our team and uh he I I think at the time did not know he was the first customer and later on uh he came over to figma's office and I introduced him without really thinking about that and I was like yeah this is just here he's the first you know his team was the really the first user of figma as a team uh and he goes wait a second I am amazing okay I want to talk about something totally different something I've noticed you are good at is you spot Trends ahead of other people so obviously webgl you were on early and that's what allowed figment to exist building it in the browser uh I saw you Tweeting about Crypt punks way before they were worth millions of dollars you're just like like Crypt punks look I got a few they're really really cool they're super cool little pipe um I'm curious if there's anything these days you are really excited about that might become bigger in the future yeah well we talked about web Sim I I mean I I we're just talking about them backstage and uh and I think and before this conversation too yeah um and uh that's an example of something where it's so it's like there's a gener generative UI component and yet it's not what we're going for for figma it's totally different um so we actually invest in web Sim with figma Ventures amazing maybe explain what web Sim is for folks that yeah web Sim is like a um hallucinated internet basically if you go to web sim. a uh you can use different models like CLA or GPT uh 4 uh and you can do that either through the defaults or you can use open router to get like a bigger context window and the more that you use it the more you construct this context window of this almost universe that you're building up in webm and as you do it uh it's almost like your world building and uh I just have like gone deep and geeked out on this uh when I've had time and they've evolved the platform a lot so like we were back there and they're showing me some new functionality that's really cool too um but uh but yeah it's I think so interesting to to see it as like this like almost Lean Forward entertainment Tool uh using the internet so I thought you would answer this and so we're going to have a picture come up here that I I tried web Sim and played around with it and hopefully a photo comes up somewhere okay so this is so all I typed here was gmail.com Dillan field so this is in an invented Gmail just came up with this using AI of what your inbox should look like and it looks pretty accurate I know there's like Adobe stuff as doj on FTC Financial this is not actual information nobody buy stock based on this so it's pretty no comment on 75% year-over-year yeah so like fny I hadn't ever tried Gmail before yeah did you try you what was your inbox like no I didn't do me I don't think it would have anything it'd be like you uh so yeah the way it works is just you type a URL or a prompt in the URL field and it'll just invent what that website look it's like it's it's hilarious it's awesome it's awesome so I think they're going to get a lot of traffic right now one time we um someone posted in our random channel on sock they said I had a dream last night it's always a good start for the random Channel I had a dream last night that I was working on uh uh fig Jam but it wasn't fig jam it was frog jam and so I uh I in web Sim was like figma dcom slf frog Jam uh and it came up with a whole marketing website complete with like toad puns for frog Jam the sticky notes were lily pads and you were supposed to like it had this whole metaphor of hopping from lily pad to Lily Pad to generate new ideas gen awesome this is genius okay so interestingly before figma your only other job was an intern at three different compan iies and now you're leading this Juggernaut of a business thousand plus people I imagine there's a lot you've had to learn over this time so I'm not going to ask you what you've learned because I think it's probably a lot I'm curious just what has most helped you scale and learn is it exec coaches is it co friends is it hiring execs like what's most helped you scale with the business and become the leader you are today I think all the above um and also just having like a mindset of you have to constantly adapt and grow and change and adapt um but yeah I would say that mentors can come from anywhere it can come from the community all of you uh mentorship can come from the people you hire it can come from you know folks that you actively seek out as investors or uh or explicit mentorship uh and mentors um it can come from people that that call themselves coaches like uh and you know what's interesting too is it can come from people you Mentor as well like there have been plenty of people where where uh they ask me a question at some point and I give them an answer and they think it's insightful for whatever reason and then years later we're we're talking again and I asked them a question they're like well years ago you told me and they like repeat back what I told them like that's a really good point uh or they've grown and they've changed and they've learned and they tell me something completely different they give me a new framework and so I think that uh when you're like a lot of times when I talk with new Founders they teach me things that are are totally things that I've just never never thought about or are interns at figma have been mentors to me in many ways so you really have to have a Larry mindset and just always be ready to absorb new information I think when you were just tinkering around with figma 12 years ago I think at this point did you ever imagine you'd be running a thousand person company and audience just Spellbound by what you're building there's like people lining up to take photos with your logo in the lobby like that doesn't happen that's very rare uh just to give you a chance to reflect on just how it feels to have built that over time how does how does that feel sitting here right now I feel very very lucky but also very humbled by just the community that is around figma I mean I mentioned in the keynote but just like the people that are in the figma community are the people that are shaping the world's technology and the chance to to serve them and to make software for them and hopefully improve their life in some little way uh is such a privilege it's a responsibility uh and one I don't take lightly but also I try not to like carry that as a weight but rather as like pump me up and uh and get me excited to go build for them so yeah when we were talking about this idea earlier the you you like the first thing you said as it's a responsibility which I didn't expect is there anything more there just like wow I really have to help make well again it's you know going back to the simplification uh point you know it's it's very important that we continue to make fig more and more simple we make figma as powerful as we can for the people that are in our community uh that we figure out what people's needs truly are um and that we advance the state of the craft and make it so that we do that in a responsible way uh and and that we Champion design and and Champion quality so we're trying to do all those things we some mess up but people have been very patient with us and we're very thankful for that that and thankful for the support of just everyone uh here and uh and in our community that that are giving us a chance to to make this impact is there anything else you want to oh yeah there's some Applause love that Applause break is there anything else you want to share anything else you want to leave listeners with before we get to our very very lightning round very quick lightning round um well no I just I I think when one thing I'll share is I think we're so early on this journey of computing in general um and in our lifetimes we're going to have the chance to just build such incredible technology and incredible products and I'm really excited to see what everyone in this room builds but uh also this everyone on the internet that's s team maybe also builds uh and send me cool stuff so if you you build something cool like message me somewhere and uh and share it with me what's the best way to message you uh email's good uh you can probably figure out my email if youit for like 5 seconds or use whbs uh and uh uh Twitter SLX is good those are two places at least you can find me Dylan with that we reached our very exciting L round we only have a couple minutes left it's a very short one do you have a favorite product that you've recently discovered that you really love other than webson um well I'll say that it's not like a favorite product but I will say that um if you get like um not to I trying to hesitating if I should say this or not we'll cut it out in post don't worry about [Laughter] it it's so fast I'll say this it's so fascinating to look at all the different LMS out there right now and what each one is uniquely good at and it's really fun if you can hack them the right way and get them in the right mood what they'll do that's what I'll say whoa what does that mean okay it's my diplomatic answer okay interesting okay uh do you have a favorite life motto that you come back to repeat to yourself share with friends or family that you find really useful I don't know if I've got a like life motto but one piece of advice I've always appreciated is when when people give you advice they're not giving you advice they're giving themselves advice in your shoes uh I think it's like an interesting one so if I give you advice here um give myself advice in your shoes final question not many people know this but you a you an actor a child actor when you were 5 years old do you think you made the right career move do you feel like you sometimes regret acting uh yeah definitely uh oh that's my mom uh my mom's in the audience and she says yes uh no I mean look like we've been talking about product uh if you're an actor you're a product in some way and um that's not to disparage actors actors are awesome actin is awesome I loved it but uh my differentiators when I was five uh five and a half I think was that I could uh I could read and I could sit still and I was decently cute um and I hit puberty and those things were no longer differentiators and uh uh then it was like let's let's do some computer science so to close we're going to play a oh yeah Applause uh we're going to play a clip something I found on YouTube to close and uh enjoy 30 seconds clip that was a good find thank you Dylan thank you so much for doing this thank you I can I make one comment about that commercial okay one comment okay one comment before we end that commercial made that company go bankrupt thank you all for joining me thank you for having me honey good L thanks Dylan bye everyone [Music]