am she I'm a confused one at that but um I just have a list of questions like I was supposed to talk to a sh um sh scholar today but he kind of bailed out so um and then you came up and I was like you know Subhan Allah like that's that may be a sign but um so first off just because I'm researching sh I'm confused about praying with your hands closed and praying with hands open like where did this idea come from that you pray with your hands closed just from like the sun perspective because yeah all right so uh the first I have other questions sorry inter but that's just the first question I have just because it attains so heavily with the way I perform prayers and everything all right before we go into the the uh uh the question that you said there's more fundamental things first because what you're saying is a branch it's a very small detail and and that Branch will change based on the foundation so I can easily answer small bits of questions here and there but that's not going to uh make you uh reach a beneficial State first when you say when you say you identify yourself as a Shia is the first question I always that was I don't know everyone around me is sh and my parents are hooking me up with like every sheh scholar they know and you know giving me all the books to read about shiaism and stuff and I've also been reading books and it's just yeah I'm just confused at this point but I do have some questions um that pertain to like um where like Prophet Muhammad sahu alai wasallam he says I leave you two weighty things Quran I was wondering like how do I Rec out yeah yeah but I I'm as I said like right now you mentioned another smaller point is it a small Point yeah I I would say it is for the Shia they make the whole religion based on it uh but but but there a smaller point in in light of everything I'm trying to say I'm trying to say before we talk about these small details because we can get lost in the details as they say right can get lost in small detail and in the end not end with a beneficial result I think what uh would would make things clearer is to First understand what is a sh what does that mean and then we realize can we be that or should we be that or not and then I respond to the same point the small points that you're making you get I'm trying to say I have no problem by the way responding to the small points but first I would like you to understand or tell me from your understanding because maybe you know I'm not I don't know if you know or you don't know why is a sh uh um so the pillars of faith I think there's an extra pillar of Faith which is Im so you have to believe uh in the 12 imams or if you are different I don't know Sex You Believe in sex but like I in where have grow grown up it's 12 IMS you believe in 12 and you believe that the last IM is the IM of your time and you should follow that IM of your time and um okay so you have 12 imams alus all of these people and you reject to the Hadith from you know bukari and yeah yeah yes before we we'll come to what you reject I just want to highlight first the 12 man point we completely understand it what are the characteristics of these 12 Ms um that they have um Divine they're divinely ordained by Allah okay and that they have knowledge they have they know the Unseen okay they know the Unseen and they're they're infallible yeah um and also that they have this is an interesting point that came up in like a discussion among sheia um girls in our group was that they have um they transcend time which was a bit diabolical for me at least I don't know I actually don't have that much knowledge all right but yeah that's another characteristic um and yeah they believe that because um um you know the castle like the King Queen of Sheba I think it was someone um who had knowledge of the book brought a throne to Prophet San we believe that therefore like Allah is able to give the knowledge of the Unseen and give these Powers Yeah I understand I'm not get to the justification yet right I just the beliefs so the belief is okay they're they're infallible and and I I'm glad you're saying this because it's important to know it's important to know and and you as you said your family is bringing you with all the scholars talking to you and they're telling you these things because this is the sh belie sh belie is to believe there's 12 people 12 imams appointed this there has to always be an appointed Imam at every time guly divinely appointed by God and these imams have the knowledge of the Unseen they're infallible they do not commit any errors or mistakes at all zero and and I'm not sure if they told you that or not but in in in many books it mentions that they're better than all the prophets except Prophet Muhammad yeah but all the prophets right yeah they say that so and they're better than yeah and they're all and they're better than all the prophets of God except Prophet Muhammad and someone even go to the extreme saying don't need to go to the extreme I don't want to go to the French yes yes but okay so these are the 12 IMS okay so that's the first thing right second thing is what is the sh view on the sah they because of the incident with the pen and paper and um fedak and um all these them denying um Ali's like they believe that they you know they you gotta be like you know what as they say proud about your beliefs because we're GNA discuss them I'm not of my beliefs yes oh no no okay all right it's not your beliefs sorry to say that because you said you're you're not you don't know what you're right now your position is but the beliefs of sh you can proudly say them no problem so they would say they're not Believers for instance right yeah okay so they will say that that the overwhelming majority except nine or three or but the overwhelming majority which is hundreds of thousands sorry over 100 thousand in the last ceremony of the Prophet they're not Believers and they're evil people Etc right correct and the wife of the Prophet also yeah she was because she was with them mu's Army so and they will car the wives and say the wives are not Believers in all of them correct yes all right great we're getting somewhere now right all right so the the the third belief let's add another another belief another belief is that they would say that um a very important belief that they would say there are verses of the Quran that to be read or understood in a different way Etc some something like this yes yes yes exactly many many many verses like even there's many many verses and many narrations about that the fourth thing is that they would bring narrations from mainly predominantly they have from they attribute to him of course this is all just attributions but overwhelming majority over 90% is coming from right correct okay good so now these are the beliefs these are the let's say the main beliefs of sh say the 12 the ja which are the people that we're talking about right now right which is the overwhelming uh majority of the Shia okay now the first thing we talk about is this let's talk about briefly I'm going to mention something to do with because you mentioned it okay in says that upon you is the book of Allah and they would say yes also sorry another thing which is a very important belief of of the sh say that we have to follow you have to follow them this is in Creed you have to a part of your Creed is you have to follow yes all right so yeah all right so uh now uh it says first thing is the book book of Allah right right upon you is first the book of Allah so we start with the book of Allah is that fair I think I know where you're going but okay if you know you don't know it's okay but just like thing is they say they say right they say this narration is the most important narration correct so we're going to use that narration the narration says upon you is the book of Allah first yes so let's focus on the book of Allah is it a problem we we and and the the the Shia agree on the book of Allah this is the common this is the common ground that we have we both say we believe in the same book this book yeah no the majority of the sh say we believe in all of it is from God yeah the one the one have they say they believe is from God so if if we agree on this book is from Allah now let's use this book and see is this book in agreement to the beliefs of the Shia that we highlighted or it's not is that fair okay no but there isn't all right so oh it's not in line you're saying I think there's no like hard evidence they say that there is verses that point to the but there's no clearcut explicit verses no first I'm asking a different question is is it fair to say that because you say you believe in the Quran to them and we believe in the Quran we believe in the same book this book is from God it's God's revelation it's guidance for mankind Allah says in the Quran that that we did not leave anything out of this book essentially this is obviously referring to actually but generally Allah says that this book is guidance for all areas of life if it doesn't give you specific details it'll give you principles like follow the prophet for instance it'll give you principles in which would lead you into all the areas of life but this book is guidance for mankind so it should guide you and me we're having a disagreement now Allah says in that same book if you disagree over anything then return it to the Quran and the prophet and the prophet yes so we start first with the Quran okay okay so if it says to return to Allah referring to the Quran and then the prophet then isn't it fair to say first before we go into what the Quran is saying is that principle fair that is fair okay that is fair and and they should not say it's not fair because they are saying we believe in the Quran the Quran is from God God's revelation all of that okay so now let's go with the sh beliefs one by one you were mentioning so I'll start with from where you you st does the Quran say it's a part of your Creed or does it teach anywhere you have to follow it's my question the family of the Prophet yes do you mean that or just look we have disagreements of who B are because we would say B include the the wife of prophet and we will use the Quran as evidence the verse in surah h where where the Angels say about the wives of ibraim they call them so is a term yeah so B is a term that is used for the wives not only that the context of which is you probably G to bring refers directly yeah refers direct directly to the wife as because the context talks about them yeah so my question is now outside of the wives which is we're talking about sh belie they're saying they don't include the wives they say they exclude the wives now we're excluding the wives they say excluding the wives as the sh would where does it say now that we have to follow that they don't include the wives in the Quran anywhere uh yeah you probably you probably got this um verse like a 100 times but I think it's like verse 55 in I don't know which or where he's talking about where Allah is talking about you should follow you know your fellow Muslims who give charity and Juds or something and then um okay this first this this verse your ally is Allah and his messenger and those who believe those establish prayer and they give Z while they're prostrated nothing there about nothing there about nothing there about anyone by name talking about Believers and it's group it's not one saying the Believers which means more than one right but isn't like the Quran verses um like revealed when a certain situation or a certain thing happens in the prophet Quan we're taking the Quran the way it is now you're going to a different Source we're saying the Quran because I'm going to use the Quran for my benefit and I'm not going to use any different Source I'm not going to say understanding I'm going to use it the way it is I'm just going to recite it the way it is context no with the context context is the versus before and after that's the definition of context context is the versus before and versus after context is not to bring uh other sources that's not not the meaning necessarily of the word context now because we disagree on these other sources is there's no point of bringing them into the image right now let's talk about what we agree on not saying that no one can bring other sources but we're saying right now we're discussing the Quran correct does the Quran anywhere say to follow is a simple question it's very very simple you brought a verse we talked about it where's the other verse you wanted to bring there is no other vers to be honest not I no other verses that I know of so fellow she has like forgive me but I don't know but right in inab you know the verse the purification verse but you agree this verse clearly talks about the wies of the Prophet yeah because the they use like the masculine pronouns but those if they believe that it's you know masculine and then it excludes FAA yes you know I already yeah read not only not only that the Quran speaks in generally in the Arabic language in the masculine terms referring to both genders how it works or then would remove all the commands of the Quran the woman have to do anything right because because all of the the commands most of the commands are like this it's a general way of speaking but the thing is not only that the context the context starts with what so Allah speaks speaks in the Quran and he mentions the vers of the verse the verse necessarily that they bring is verse what 33 I believe the verse 33 I'm not sure take like the second half of the verse yes so the the context starts by Allah saying oh wives of the Prophet yeah you're not like any then Allah starts to tell them what to do all in the feminine right pray give charity all of these things right then Allah says Allah wants to purify you even let let me be very very very nice with with the the sh that would like to have a a nice discussion okay look I'll be nice with you no problem about okay list say it's not about the wies it's about where does it say there nowhere nowhere it just says that Allah is going to purify them done Allah says the same thing about the companions by the way in in the Quran so Allah saying that he he will bring water or rain so he can purify you with it that Allah will remove from you the rich which is the impurity of of Satan the same thing as the other verse right so it's mentioned there about the companions so about purity and purification that's not the verse is not saying what it's not saying follow we agree on that it's clearly because we read the verse the verse doesn't say follow okay so is there any other verses you can bring in the Quran that says follow which is the Creed of the the Shia you have to follow all right any there two verses there all right so the first belief of of the sh that we found there's nothing in the Quran that shows that we need to do that okay number one number two now we talk that shows there's no verse yeah even that's there another belief that's coming one by one so first we said following a which is a belief another belief now you mentioned this we'll go to the belief that you mentioned next belief is what the IM there are 12 imams these 12 imams know the Unseen and and we need there will be one divinely appointed at at each time and they're all divinely appointed by God infallible right is there any verse just one one one I'm being nice one one verse is there any verse in the entire Quran that mentions that not explicitly implicitly you're welcome where show me no I don't have implicitly too not explicitly nor implicitly there not 12 IMS at all mentioned in the Quran no anyway she perform okay so the second belief of the sh is not there okay and by the way I'm going to talk about the specifics of it in a bit and I'm going to bring verses against the specifics of the beliefs of the sh so far I'm just refuting what they believe and then not not bringing what we believe and using evidences for the Quran for it that's the the second thing third thing is cursing the companions saying that this Believers this and all of that is that how the Quran refers to the companions of the Prophet no does the Quran in any verse say that all of the companions are disbelievers and and evil people and enemies is there any verse like this no isn't there a verse that says the the and and already promis Jen something we excellent good good you're bringing points from my side I just I'm not being nice now and saying what do you guys have as evidences nothing right nothing they bring one verse and from the the the surroundings of the people of Medina there are hypocrite we see okay there are this verse is referring that there are hypocrites and there was Hypocrites and Allah revealed to the names of the Hypocrites we don't agree that there was Hypocrites there were people who pretending to be believers who are not but they're not the because the verse before is referring to them so wouldn't say one verse is not going to say next verse makes zero sense so that means that whoever those Hypocrites are they're not included they're not referring to the they're not okay because because the already promised J okay so they bring this verse by the way and it's in the first verses in you can read it so I'm being look very honest and fair I'll bring their evidence but I have a question just for the sake of argument what if um the companions uh um they're not a part of the muajin and ANS like those specific um Companions abak and Omar oh no no I'll come I'm GNA come to that who said from they are okay yeah are the M the main the main ones they have problems with are from the right right so Abu Bak who they holding all of this hatred against them they are from the m so they cannot escape the fact that this vers is praising them right so uh there's no leeway for them there at all right is there any other verses that we can bring from their side but there isn't by the way but I'm opening the door is there any no there isn't okay there isn't so there is no uh following in the Quran which is the Creed of the Shia the second Creed of the Shia to do the 12 imams it's nowhere visible in the Quran nowhere in the Quran that they pretend is God's words and they say they follow and when they recite they make mistakes but that's a different story okay what other beliefs did we say huh that they have um isma or like knowledge we said the companions we talked about the companions which I'm going to talk about we already referred to the companions as well so that that's another thing that is not in the Quran to view the companions that all these Believers and warn the prophet from them and warn the Believers from them and all of that right right uh so so these are the beliefs of the people that say that we are there's another belief in which they say we call upon Ali as well which is a very important thing to mention because we say that is can take you out of the fold of the religion meaning that you can call upon someone who's dead and say uh help me Aid me other than Allah someone who's dead who's already out of this life and then you can call like sorry T yes I'm going to come you're going to mention the evidence now don't worry I'm going I'm going to listen to it very carefully and be happy to listen to it so first they say this another belief is that you can call upon someone who's dead and ask for help from them correct we say now is there anywhere in the Quran that said that teaches you to do that or says you can do that or you should do that to Ali or any of the imams or any anyone even the prophet no no they would wait isn't the um in the Quran when someone uh oh no Allah says to Prophet Muhammad if someone comes to you and asks you help and then Allah is all forgiving all merciful yes yes along I don't know the exact yeah in chapter four of the Quran I know the verse that you're referring to but it's saying come to you they came to you and is used for the past tense because they didn't come so that's referring to something in the past tense and it is coming to physically come into the prophet Alam himself but right now they don't go to the prophet anyways so this verse doesn't support them because they go to Ali they go to the prophet they say you can go to Prophet Muhammad the prophets as well no no no I'm not saying what they say I'm saying what they do now if I were first I responded by saying this verse is referring to past tense number one is referring to going to the prophet where he's alive and referring to the prophet seeking forgiveness for you and the prophet is not here today to seek forgiveness for you so all of the things that are in the verse cannot apply today but I'm saying if I want to be nice because as I said I like to be nice you know with our friends I say okay we'll be nice and we'll say that this is referring to going to the prophet prophets are not equal with the rest of the creation if something can be done with the prophet does not mean that you can do it with the rest of the creation that's the first thing that we we both agree on the standard that prophets have their own status and level and things that they can do that we cannot do no one would disagree with that so we're asking now for evidences for what they do not what they say you can and can n they don't go to the prophet they go to Ali and Hass HSE and these these graves right so we're asking now or they call upon them and the imams we're saying now where is the this is there any verses evidences for that you would need to mention the Quran they're not dead do not think that those who are killed in sake of Allah are dead they're alive right Allah says do you know means in the Arabic language no with with the Lord so they're not with you they're not in this life they're not in this world they're in the bar okay so so the have a different life so if they are for the for the place and they are with their lord not with you then you cannot be talking to them okay I've grown up under the impression that the imams are with you and like observe you but this verse doesn't say anything about that this the all do you know who who's with you and who observes you Allah Allah so the truth is now you're revealing the truth that sh has worship the 12 imams and they give the characteristics of Allah to them now and I'm going to highlight this now right I'm just refuting as I said the beliefs I'm going to come to highlighting now the problems now one by one I just hope I don't miss any points right if I me me miss something remind me so I can refute it okay so this is the case there is nothing in the Quran that would say you can do this so let's start with this now let's start with reputations uh and and given the opposite position which our which is our position our position is the only person you can call upon is who Allah Allah now the position of of the Muslims I'm not going to even use the term Sun the Muslims because Muslims are those who follow the Quran right so we look at the Quran what does the Quran say the Quran says to call upon Allah alone Allah says in the Quan They were only commanded to worship Allah alone not to associate anyone with him Allah says call upon me I will answer you Allah doesn't say to call anyone other than him then Allah says those who call upon other than Allah they're servants like you call upon them and let them help you if you're truthful do they have hands they're walking they're using they have legs they're walking they're not alive they're dead those people you're calling upon other than Allah then Allah also says in the Quan who is more misguided the one who calls other than Allah anyone other than Allah means other than Allah anyone else including the prophets yeah Allah says who who is more misguided than the one who calls other than Allah they're not going to respond to you until the day of judgment but um she has say that they don't call upon like others they say they call upon on like using their High status in front of the eyes of Allah do they say Ali most the ones I know don't say that but like the ones I've seen in the scholarly fields and stuff like that they don't say that no but they do they say you can say that some of them have more Le way others say no you can't say it so I you can go to you can go to Theus and hear them say Ali 24 247 right can yeah so the fact is we're saying is they wouldn't say you cannot do this even if you said they're not doing it majority of them many many many of them doing it maybe the ones around you don't but they say you can do it so if they all agree and say this is Association Shar then we don't need to discuss this we're only discussing it because it exists for them and Allah says to finish the verse who who's more misguided than who calls other than Allah and they are unaware of you calling upon them and when Allah resurrects the people and gathers them they will be your enemy the people you're calling upon them they will be your enemy and they will dis vow in your worship so Allah called calling upon someone is worship yeah Allah said yeah so they say that um calling for intercession is like going to a doctor but step by step first first first step step by step I'll mention this verse Allah says call upon me I will answer you those who shy away or turn away from my worship so Allah called calling upon Allah worship now you're giving me examples go to the doctor go to the friend I'm giving you quranic verses can up and down bring me all of their I'm not interested in what they have to say I'm interested in what the my lord said to me that they claim they believe it right so now we're saying you can bring all the examples you go to the doctor you go to your friend you go to the your uncle that's your business you know I'm saying right now using the Quran the Revelation the guidance that came from Allah what does it say about calling upon other than Allah this is Allah says to the prophet you cannot make the dead hear you cannot make the dead he Allah explicitly mentions that in the Quran that the dead don't hear the dead don't hear there's an exception where Allah made that that did people hear one time with the prophet that doesn't mean that this happens regularly we're not talking about exceptions to the rule we're talking about generally people don't hear now what is what is more now now I'm taking you on Next Level now what is the problematic thing about calling upon someone who's dead now after all mentioning all of these verses of the Quran why is the problematic the problematic thing is this is that you say that that person whoever they are can hear all voices in the same time because all of us are doing calling upon them in the same same time that's right can can understand all languages yes because because all of us are speaking different languages even the Arabic that we using today is not the same Arabic Ali was using yeah so you given them characteristics of Allah you're saying that person who's dead Never Dies which is a characteristic of Allah you're saying that not only do they never die but they hear all voices in the same time and understand all of them and understand all languages and they don't get mixed up which is only a characteristics of Allah but um does Allah give knowledge um to whom you know he Wills like again the example with the guy in the palace um in the Council of prophet lman where the knowledge got to do with what we say so he had the knowledge so like to bring the throne so that's obviously a really big achievement there okay but that still not to hear voice see if I understand all languages and that's not an example and where does Allah did Allah say he did that to them again where does Allah say this that's right you see it's all hypothetical scenar and examples and games because they know the Quran is against them yeah so okay so here is the first thing this is a problem with the first problematic now I'm refuting evidences from the you see the difference I ask you for one verse I'll give you tens of verses for what I say not one or two because what we believe is as Muslims again I'll use the term Muslims what we believe as Muslims is found in the Quran in our book of course we believe it has to be in our book okay right what the Creeds that we believe have to be in our book okay so that's the first thing the second thing is what cursing the companions Allah all over the the Quran you read the Quran is praising the companions yeah Allah says says as we said in in the verse that I'll I'll quote the verses and then you can say what you want okay Allah says in the Quran chapter 9 verse 100 the verse that you mentioned and and the first foreigners among the those to follow them in righteousness Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with him and he prepared for them uh Paradise where rivers flow beneath not only that Allah tells us to follow them because Allah says who those who follow them in righteousness which means if you follow them in righteousness Allah is pleased with you and you will have Paradise so not only that we have a verse that Praises them but it says that we have to follow them which now our friends the Shia you know they don't have nothing that follow that this verse here say to follow the sahab that they say they are not even Believers okay Allah says in the Quran mentions different types of companions in different incidents for instance Allah is pleased with the the companions the Believers where they were doing the under the tree so Allah says muham Prophet Muhammad is the messenger of Allah those who are with Him General Allah is saying generally those who are with him they will harsh the Believers merciful with one another you see them prostrating and their examples in the T and in this is in the Quran Allah is mentioning their praise not only the praise is there but their praise in the previous books only the Quran Allah says in the Quran in that he prepared for them J theah generally Allah is speaking Yeah I'm just telling you what Allah is saying I'm telling you is saying Allah is saying in the Quran they're not equal those who fought uh before the migration of meca and those who did after right those who spent and fought before conquest of meca are not equal to who did after because was more difficult was less Believers it was more difficult but Allah didn't say and all of them the ones who fought before and after and spent before and after and the ones who did after Allah promised all of them the best thing or the best reward alus means the best reward what is the best reward J J so Allah is saying those who fought with the prophet before the going to Mecca and spent and those who did after they're all promised paradise and these are the companions so now we got all of these verses that says we should follow them that they're praised that the praised in the previous books Allah has prepared Paradise for them which is the exact opposite of what those people are trying to tell you you should believe right but a lot of Shar say that you don't know and we reject the the idea that um like Omar and abak are part of um this you know the sahaba and you know well well history every history book on the planet shows that they were from the M you you cannot reject this essentially this is what every history book they were from the M that they were uh from the people who spent especially the likes ofan no one can reject this as a fact who were the sahab that you tell us who are the sahaba who is Allah talking about name them who are these people who's this fictional characters that we have no history about them or no knowledge about them the I'm we going to reject every historical book out there we have they have no historical books otherwise they would reject all history and they would say okay will you show us who who is Allah talking about yeah well one of them just on top of my head is like what Salman Al no no no other than the three and nine you were not were there nine people helping the prophet defeating qur and and and then Tak it over the the planet was this what Tak it over like you know actually the argument is like they were Muslims at the time of the Prophet Muhammad and then afterwards they became non-muslims you know after okay okay do we agree these verses about them we do because okay they were Believers according to you we'll take your your argument okay they were Believers and these verses about them these verses say that they promised Paradise which can a disbeliever enter Paradise no okay so there you go your argument now the drain okay they're not my AR by way no no I'm saying their argument essentially don't take personally right but it's good you're you're given their arguments because you are in a position of realizing what you should believe so it's good to bring what they tell you because they're around you and they tell you these things so I'm giving your responses for that reason okay so this is now the the idea about the companions okay here we dealt with the Companions and here we deal with uhuh wait get to some Hadith too because that's what I'm most um concerned about no no but step by step I'm still going into it now because now I'm giving why did they give you the found okay if these foundations that the sah are actually people who are righteous praised by Allah and entering Paradise then we can learn we should learn from them and follow them then you cannot then go and take narrations from other books you understand what I'm trying to say do you see now why I gave you the foundations because it will solve all the problems that you're talking about how do you learn to pray how do you you supposed to follow that solves all of the other Minor Details that you're bringing that's why I deal with the root of this of the story also you see they talked about the the the IM because I want to talk about this as well talked about the IMs knowing the Unseen Allah explicitly in the Quran says the only one who knows the Unseen is him Allah says in the Quran say no one in the heavens and the Earth knows the Unseen except Allah yeah well I'm gonna respond to what they say though step by step don't worry Allah says the knower of the Unseen now let's see The Only Exception who Allah tells the Unseen to is there in this verse Allah says of the Unseen he does not reveal the Unseen to anyone except who he pleases from a messenger so he can he give the Unseen to only a messenger the imams are not Messengers with agreement but they say that you know imams are higher on higher are they Messengers are they Messengers no doesn't include but if they're higher on like oh no no I'm coming I'm going to refute that as well okay right so uh but we thinking things step by step first is let's agree that Allah says only a messenger Allah is going to reveal to unseen to them now they say that that they are higher I said to you can even find them in the Quran why you talking about them being higher will give me evidence where but where does Allah say where does Allah say they are higher or better isn't there isn't there like a prophet in the Quran whose status was elevated from Prophet to IM we don't agree that IM this is there's assumption there you've not prove that Imam is a status higher than than a prophet and then Allah elevated them you see you have a lot of false assumptions and then you're making a conclusion based on them we don't agree we believe that prophets were all imams imams mean they LED their people they were all imams so Allah referring to them as an IM there meaning a leader of their people is a linguistic usage that we don't have an issue that someone leads their people they were all leading their the people and Allah mentioned their praise that they were the best of the people and then Allah says those are the ones that Allah guided so follow their guidance these are the ones who Allah guided so follow their guidance Allah says this messenger we elevated one over the others in degree so Allah talks about their praise and and and them being having these highest of degrees where is anything to do with the imams being any even mentioned lat talking about their praise this not there so to to have all first you need to prove your premise that's why I started with their premise I said where is the proof for your premise and then we talk about whether it's a higher status where is the vers the understanding so Allah explicitly says in the Quran no one knows the Unseen except uh him and he only reveals some of the Unseen to The Messengers okay so if you unless you are a messenger you cannot cannot say that you know anything from The Unseen done also the idea of infallibility there's nothing in the Quran that would talk about that this something explicit about the prophet for example Allah says oh Prophet deliver Allah has given to you uh and if you don't you've not delivered his messeng his message in chapter five and then Allah says Allah gives you gives you uh infity in delivery of the message so you will whatever you deliver about the message will be correct okay but I another I have another point so that Surah verse 33 right if it does apply to the whole household of the and Then followed upon by you know the that's often cited where um no no first first first first first first you cannot build on false premises right but we agreed we agreed first this verse is not about uh it's about the wives clearly and the second thing we said even if it wasn't it doesn't say follow them yeah okay and then now you and then now I'm coming I'm coming to your points what does it mean that is upon you what does it mean is the mean is was important like the people Muslims don't have an issue with who love and respect they are the The House of the Prophet the household of the prophet of course we honor we respect them we love them and we follow them but what they attribute to them what they attribute to them is all false is what I'm saying and that's why I took you with the standard who you supposed to follow if you're supposed to follow the Companions and those who follow the companions in righteousness then we have those who follow the companions in righteousness IM Ahmed alkari and Muslim those are the people who took from The Companions and followed them in righteousness those are the people the one who the people who brought us the Quran were the companions of the Prophet will a group of disbelievers die to spread the message of Islam all the way from China to to Spain the only reason those people who who refer to themselves sh are Muslim is because the sahaba did this they would not even known about Islam right and they will say they're not Believers you know so the thing is this everything every foundation of the Shia I when you crack the foundation then you understand that these books that they have which are referred to now we said we mentioned the verse of the Quran if you disagree over anything you return it to Allah mean the Quran and then the messenger now the second part which is here you you you return it to the messenger you will see they don't return anything to the messenger because I mentioned to you yeah they don't what they have all of their narration 90 over 95% is going to it's not to the prophet they have no so they take from the Sunni Hadith and they say you know um is like one of the most narrated hads out there as well as we don't have a problem with it we don't have a problem with it we accept it but the question is the word right it has many meanings in the Arabic language right and and we take a meaning based on a context based on the fact that we follow the companions who told us what the context was because they were there and Allah told us to follow them so which one would we take the context of the people who were there who Allah told us they are good people best people who will have Paradise or we take your context of someone who was never there never attended has no idea and they're telling us actually the word means this and they were all evil people which one should we the meaning of the obviously the people that were there were witnessing the situation yes and we all believe believe is Al if if you are Ally or a friend or to love Ali is a part of belief and Faith because he was from the Companions and he was prais and he was uh promised Jenna and he was one of the bra bravest people to fight but the religion is not about an individual it's about the Quran that comes from Allah it's not about Abu Bakr religion is not about Abu Bak it's not about Omar yeah there's barely narrations you know the least of narrations that we have are from Abu Bakr and Omar anyways least number of narrations of that we have yeah majority of the Hadith that we have are from like abdah ET and these people now and I forgot to mention one thing which is the wife the prophet yes how does Allah talk about the look if I criticize someone's wives I criticize them that's how it works when you when you curse the wives of someone you're indirectly attacking them now you will mention they will they will talk about the prophet the the prophets had disbelieving wies disbelieving wi I look I know before you say I know where you go don't worry I know it's not it's not my first road you as they say right don't worry so the thing is Allah mentioned those exceptions how did Allah speak about the of the Prophet is the question Allah says in the Quran he gave them a choice between choosing Allah and his messenger or choosing the worldly life and they chose Allah and his messenger Allah is saying in the Quran he gave them the choice chapter 33 as well if you want this life and it's Ador then say to me and I'll let you go meaning I'll will divorce you and you can go if you want Allah and his messenger then you will remain did they remain or no they remained which means they chose Allah and his Messenger right and Allah says they are the mothers of all the Believers his wives are are their mother others so Allah said that the they chose the afterlife they chose uh the messenger of Allah they chose Allah and they are our mothers and then you get someone who's calling them this and calling them that and calling this so once the principles and the foundations this is what I want you to understand sister forget now what I said to you about forget sorry what they say to you about specific details because these specific details will have responses I can give you like I give you some of the responses I we'll have but we'll spend our time talking about specific details another here or there is the foundation defendable or not is the question you know what I'm saying no it's not that's what I have like that's what my biggest point of contention with shlam is is that that there's no foundations to build upon let's say that's I tried to do with you right so the idea of Ally we understand we explain to mean Ally uh responding to how we pray the prophet We Believe said pray as you see me pray who around him seeing him pray was the companions we have their description of how he prayed and we pray that way anyone else who comes later on he tells us how to pray every book of that you'll see the books of narrations of the Shia comes hundreds of years after because they don't come from those people because they don't accept them none of them are reliable sources for us to say that they trace back to the prophet Alat right so we we don't need to accept any of them and they attributed lies to them and even their own narrations they would agree that there are liars in the these narrations but they will still use them they will agree they're not authentic narrations they will still use them there isn't a single narration that is authentic uh that is saying to you that the IM identifying the IM that is alive today and who he is and where he is and all of these things there isn't right they will tell you this this unknown person he's there to just you know divinely appointed like he's not leading no one he's an Imam somehow C he's in a cation of yeah yeah yeah and he's not leading anyone but he's an IM like come on so just another point um is the pen and paper I'm not sure if you've heard about this is yes we say the prophet mentioned this like all the time we keep mentioning it especially people because they love to mention we we say Prophet was in a state of sickness you can be in a state of sickness and you're not your senses are not 100% there so did not did not want to give the book to the prophet when he's not in his senses in which the prophet could write something when is not in his s and the prophet Alam did not later on say how could you do this how could you disobey he could if it was wrong and Haram it's an obligation upon the prophet to correct because he's the messenger of God why did he not punish him why did he not say this is wrong huh but how could he correct him if he was like sick and you know how did you know about the the event just like you know about the event that the people mention the event that happened like there's no way that you know about the event but the prophet who was in the event did not know about the event so the the event was known because not only was there the other companions would also would say this is Haram this is wrong how could you say this right so there it's not only him there so uh this is what we see and then I also bring them the same thing with Al we the I believe the prophet was doing the and then disbeliever of qur wanted to wipe away the messenger of Allah because he said right Prophet said to Ali right from Muhammad from Muhammad then the believer said no remove messenger of Allah if I believed you're the messenger of Allah I wouldn't fight you so Ali said no because he believes the prophet is the messenger of Allah and he wants to honor him I'm giving you the reasons that that what we say we give justification for him not doing it okay he didn't want to remove a messenger of Allah because he knows the prophet is a messenger of so the thing is we cannot take one isolated event in and extract of the F prophet's life if that individual was bad or evil Allah would have told him like he told him the names of Allah he would have been punished by the prophet if he was doing evil around him yeah that makes sense um and I guess this could be our closing Point um is that I think um one of the girls that girls that I've been talking to said that when Prophet Muhammad he first came with um the news of the Revelation and stuff and he asked who will help me with the this endeavor um I think Ali Ali apparently he said I will help and then he said you know sit back down and then I don't know if this is an authentic narration let's say this where is where is the the argument has been made we have no issues we're not criticizing during during that narration some it says that um he will be the one who will succeed me no we don't have that in anywhere in under in as an authentic narration but Virtues Of is many that we have in our books you can open the these books they will tell you virtues as well as other comp they will have chapters with their virtues we believe in there's narrations about their uh their bravery the good things that they did the praise of the Prophet to them but just Allah the prophet praising someone like he did with ab and om does not mean this person now is like a whole religion has become about them now and leaving the prophet himself right that makes sense yeah all right so this is like everything I told you is the Quran and when I upload this clip inshallah you will see the references and that's it I I believe this is clearer than the sun for anyone who's sincere no it is clear obviously so hopefully once this video is uploaded I can just Sho it off to my friends and family guide them and us that which pleases him all right sister uh I will have to end the the stream probably as well because you conversation took some time right so all right uh is there anything else I can do for you or that's it uh no I think because the foundations have already been dismantled everything else just crumbles so it's all that's why that's why I said yes all right sister I let you go thank you for your time