Well, the audience just keeps growing. I know that some of you have been... My constant companions on this visit to Bangalore. I know you, I recognize your faces.
I saw you at Nimhans and then at IIM Bangalore and now here. And you know, those who have been in all these programs, you know that the audience just keeps growing and growing and growing. It's really impressive.
Thank you all for being here. All right, let me start with the chant. Om Asato Ma Sadgamaya Tamaso Ma Jyotirgamaya Mrityur Ma Amritam Gamaya Om Shanti Om, lead us from the unreal to the real, lead us from darkness unto light, lead us from death to immortality. Om, peace, We just heard about the history of the Indian Institute of Science, where we are all here today, and its connection with Swami Vivekananda, its well-known history as We also heard the important contribution of Sister Nivedita. This is something that was not highlighted earlier.
That Swami Vivekananda was the person who put this idea in Jamshedji's mind. Jamshidji was the person, the pioneer who took the initiative in establishing this institute. But both of them passed away before this institute could be established. They didn't live to see it being established.
And as was said earlier, the British government, they said no. They said, these are the words, natives don't need science research. Indians, science research is not for you. And then Sister Nivedita, she fought long and hard and took it all. all the way to London, to the parliament there, to get permission for the establishment of the Tata Institute.
In fact, even now, I think, Ottowalla and all the others, they call it the Tata Institute. The Tata group, there's these connections, you know, so interesting connections. I was in Manhattan just a couple of weeks ago. The biggest, biggest event in New York is the New York Marathon.
And it was being organized, a huge exercise. And the sponsor, organizer is none other than TCS. So, yes, a clap is... It's more than well-deserved. So, our ashram is very close to the central park there, and I was going for my usual walk, and you see the enormous organization going on there.
I was talking to some Americans there, and I said that, you know, all this, yes, all this is being done by an Indian organization, the Tata Consultancy Services, and I'm going to their home city, Bangalore. I'm going to visit them. The people are impressed. They didn't know the history behind all of this. So, the subject today, Vedantic insights and practices for overcoming stress and attainment of peace.
You know, straight away, if you say this to a traditional Vedantic scholar or teacher, they'll immediately object to this. The objection will be of something of this form. Vedanta is not meant for these things. Vedanta is not meant for overcoming stress. Attaining peace maybe.
Vedanta is a moksha shastra. It's meant for liberation, moksha, enlightenment, salvation, not for stress busting, for that you stretch and relax and watch TV or something like that. But, you know, it is we, Vedanta teachers, who are responsible for this kind of a little bit of a misunderstanding. I am reminded of this story. probably apocryphal, the one who started transcendental meditation, Maharshi Mahesh Yogi.
Again in New York, so when he went and started teaching meditation there, and the way he put it, you know, if you meditate, your aging process is arrested, you won't have so many wrinkles on your face, you won't be overcome by stress, your immune system will be boosted and you can resist disease, and so many things. You look younger, you look more beautiful, you're more peaceful internally, all these benefits. And of course, you know, the TM became very popular. It's still very popular across the world, not just in the United States.
Now, the story is like this, that when he came back from one of his early visits to the United States, he came back to India, his monastic brothers asked him, what is this you are teaching? Meditation is not meant for removing wrinkles on the face. Then his answer was very... very perceptive.
He says, look, I give them what they want in the hope that they will want what I want to give them. And it is also not true that Vedanta is not meant for overcoming stress or not meant for attainment of peace. After all, if you look at the purpose of Vedanta, even traditionally, what do the texts say?
What is the goal? What is the purpose of Vedanta? of Vedanta. Atyantika dukha nivritti paramānanda prāptiṣca. The cessation of sorrow and the attainment of bliss.
Pretty much close to overcoming stress and attainment of peace, I think. So, purpose is not all that different. It is, it's very valid to say that Vedantic insights can be used for overcoming suffering, stress and attainment of peace.
I'll speak in general a little bit, various insights from the different spiritual practices, different spiritual traditions, a little bit about overcoming stress, finding peace, and then specifically narrow down to the Advaitic path, sort of my favorite, you know, I'm going to end up talking about that anyway. Yeah, somebody said in New York, same lecture every time. So, peace. The first basis of peace understood in Vedanta is what we call Dharma, an ethical life, a moral life. As Americans say, you clean up your act.
I'm never going to get peace if I know my voice inside tells me that what I'm doing is wrong. This little voice of conscience tells me that what I'm doing is wrong. No chance of peace. My inner voice tells me that you're not a good person. No chance of peace.
And that itself creates a lot of tension, a lot of stress. There is that funny story of a man who went to learn yoga, meditation, from a yoga teacher, meditation teacher. And, you know, the Ashtanga yoga of Patanjali, Yama, Niyama.
Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana, Samadhi. So Dhyana is meditation. Seventh of eight limbs.
So this teacher said, Alright, first of all, one must tell the truth, have self-control. and all these things, basic moral values he started teaching, this man got bored. He said, I know all that from childhood people are telling me, tell the truth, be a good boy. You, forget all that. Teach me how to sit, how to breathe, how to meditate.
Asana sikhaye, pranayama sikhaye, dhyana sikhaye. Tell the truth, be a good person. I don't want to listen. So then, this joke works only in Hindi. So, this teacher, he said, Aap ashtanga yoga sikhenge ya vikalanga yoga sikhenge?
Are you going to learn eight-limbed yoga? Or the handicapped yoga, you know what it means? The first two limbs you are cutting out. The moral practices, disciplines, you are cutting out.
He says, asana, you sit. Black money par asana bichayenge, dhyana hoga? So there's a deep truth in this.
When my conscience is clear, or at least I'm making efforts, that I am aware that what I am doing is not ethically entirely above board, and I'm trying to make a difference and make a change in my life and become a better person, then spirituality becomes possible, then also peace of mind becomes possible. You sleep easier at night. trouble-free conscience is the best medicine for nice sleep at night now Higher than that, deeper than that. Moral action, but then deeper than that is selfless action. A person can be moral and yet be pretty worldly.
See, a person says, I don't do anything wrong. I do everything by the law and I'm a good person. But my goals are, I want to be rich and I want to be powerful. I want to get lots of Facebook likes and whatnot. So this is a pretty worldly goal.
Instead of doing that, as R.M. was saying, that if my actions, I can transform it into selfless action. Whatever I am doing, it's not for my sake.
I am doing this as a service to the Lord. to those around me. The attitude, I always remember Rivi at Swami Ranganathan Ji Maharaj. He would describe spirituality in such simple words.
What is spirituality? When I close my eyes, I find peace within. When I open my eyes, my attitude is what can I do for you? Which is pretty much the opposite of what we do.
You know, when we close our eyes, we find disturbance within. When you open our eyes, not what I can do for you, what I can get from you. That's why we don't find peace.
So this action, instead of saying that I am working just for myself, I, me, mine, instead of that, every action can actually be done with the attitude of I am doing it so that others may be benefited. Maybe in the community, maybe in the family, maybe in the office, wherever you are, in your workplace. So people are benefited by our work and it doesn't matter if you're getting a salary for that.
Even as monks you have to collect donations also. So karma yoga, selfless work can be done at every level, in the classroom, in the workplace, at home, in the community. That gives a deeper dimension to peace. One might ask that how can I work without any selfish motivation?
So why should I work? Normally we do good work only when we feel that I'm going to get something out of it, so let me do a good job. But if I feel I'm not going to get anything out of it, it's not for me, then why should I do a good job at all? I had this doubt when I became an... Brahmachari, when I joined the order, Rev. Swami Ananyanji Maharaj, he was a senior monk.
I met him in the Delhi Ramakrishna Mission many years ago, nearly 30 years ago. That was a new Brahmachari then. One day, he had knee problems, so I was holding him by the hand.
and he was walking back to his room after the evening arati in the Delhi Ramakrishna mission. And I asked him this question, Swamiji, how can we have work without any selfish motive, any gain, personal gain? Why should anybody do any work? The basic idea of karma yoga. But that's the basic question.
Why should I do any kind of work if I don't gain personally out of it? He didn't answer that point, but I still remember. We walked back slowly to his room. He was a big man.
He went... went into the room, turned around and looked at me. And he said that these two words, you know.
disinterested and uninterested. So he said, my boy, disinterested work, not uninterested work. In the dictionary, if you look, disinterested means I don't have any personal angle to it, no personal axe to grind.
And uninterested means, chalta hai, to do it somehow or the other. So he said, karma yoga is not uninterested work. It is disinterested in the sense that I have no personal angle to it. If we do that, the first benefit of that, it is a stress-busting thing. It gives us deep peace.
One thing I noticed after I heard that, I noticed the Swamijis in the ashram where I was stationed, in Ramakrishna Mission in Deoghar, which is now in Jharkhand. In those days, it was part of Bihar. I noticed the Swamijis, they did so much work, day and night. such hard work and yet they were not stressed out at least not most of the time sometimes a little bit and they were pretty relaxed and happy and fulfilled one reason one powerful reason was it was not my there was no personal angle to it.
They were there to serve Sri Ramakrishna to do Vivekananda's work in that ashram which is a school, a hostel the kids are there. They do their work. Tomorrow if they are taken away from there and put in another place, maybe a hospital, entirely different situation they will continue to do that work. Because the attitude is the same.
They are not particularly attached to a place, particular job, particular people. They have that selfless attitude of disinterested. it and that gives a lot of peace and a lot of protection against stress so that is so now you see the two things dharmika karma definitely the minimum is ethical action but deeper than that Giving more peace than that is ethical action which is also selfless, disinterested. Dharmika karma to karma yoga. Transform our action into yoga.
And of course to that one can also add that if you do it as a worship of God, then it's not just disinterested. Disinterested action sounds still a little cold, a little boring and dry. But if you believe in God in some form, then you say I am doing this work as a worship of my Krishna or Rama, in whichever form you worship God. Then it becomes an act of love and there's joy in that action.
Here I am reminded of something that I had read in a lovely little book of Christian mysticism, The Imitation of Christ. This was one of Swami Vivekananda's favorite books. There, there is this four ways of stress busting and attainment of peace.
Peace. They don't use those words, the old book. The author is imagining that the student is asking, the disciple is asking Jesus in a sort of imagination. How do I get peace? And then he imagines that Jesus is answering.
If you want peace, do these four things. And if you hear what those four things are, you will realize why we are in so much stress and why we don't get peace. Because we are doing exactly the opposite of those four things. So it's worth listening to.
What are those four things? One, if you want peace, then always seek to have less rather than more. We try to do just the opposite. We are always seeking to have more and more and more.
I mean, in this country, it's still under control, though it is slowly going out of control. I always say in the United States, it's the first time I saw a country where you have houses and houses just to keep stuff. They call it...
storage. So all the junk which accumulates in your home and then it overflows your home into the garage till there is no space for the car and then we have to take it all and go and hire a place, big storage place to keep your personal stuff which you may never use again. But stuff, more things.
Always seek to have less rather than more. That's the first thing for peace. The second thing he says is more difficult.
Always seek to be last rather than first. The professors will be upset. What are you telling Swamiji? Always seek to be last rather than first.
By that he means that first and last in terms of consumption, in terms of taking credit, in terms of status. Let others get credit. Let others get status.
Let others enjoy whatever is to be consumed. Who is the mother who is, you know, the last piece of cake is in the house and the kids are coming back from school. Does the mother ever think, oh, before they come back, let me eat the cake? No, she gets joy by thinking that let me not. eat the cake but let the kids, they will enjoy it.
Always seek to be last rather than first. Then you will get peace. And third, even more difficult. If you want peace, always seek to do the will of another.
rather than your own. Always seek to do the will of another, what the other person wants. And it's not really all that difficult.
In most cases, this clash of what we want is mostly clash of opinions. Maybe the opinion of the other person, the choice of the other person is not as good as your choice, as wise as your choice. 10% in Hindi, we are saying unis vis.
So if you accept the will of the other, then the result is peace actually. and the last one if you want peace fourth one if you want peace then in all things try to see and know and accept the will of God whatever happens in life try to see that it is the will of God God and try to accept it. Try because it's difficult and try to accept it.
These four things, they lead to peace. If you want to manage stress, these four things are very powerful tools actually to manage stress. So this is external. It's still external.
Action. Possession, action, relationships, this is external. But peace and lack of peace are actually internal states. Today I was talking in Sheshadri Purim College.
I mentioned this that one sadhu said that we think we don't have peace, we have stress. Because samsara is giving us stress. Samsara is troublesome and that's why my mind is troubled. But, and that sadhu said, actually it's just the opposite.
is troubled that I think it's samsara is troublesome. It's the other way around. When you think people are troublesome, situation is troublesome, environment is troublesome, so my mind is troubled just the other way around.
It's my mind is restless and troubled that's why I see so many problems outside. Aren't there problems outside? There are. It's much easier to deal with them if my mind is at peace. And notice the same problem, the same exact same problem, two different people react to it in two different ways, which means Our reaction to it depends upon our mind, not so much upon the situation outside.
We ourselves react to the same situation, same person in different ways when our mind is calm or when our mind is disturbed. So the third level of seeking peace, of overcoming stress, we have to deal with it at the level of the mind. This is the level of yoga. At some time of the day, we must be independent of the mind.
We are not the mind. It's a basic idea of Vedanta, Yoga, Sankhya. Because we are not the mind, the mind is an instrument, it doesn't have to keep working all the time. If I have a hand, do I have to keep grasping things all the time? If I have legs, do I have to keep walking around?
around running around all the time unless you are three years old you shouldn't so exactly like that if i have a mind why should i let it go on chattering all the time there must be some time in the day at least once or twice once in the morning once in the evening where i sit down in stillness in silence in peace and know that i am independent of this mind the mind must fall silent That is meditation. And again, very powerful tool for overcoming stress and for attainment of immediate peace. Even more than that, at even deeper level of peace and joy and overcoming stress is love.
Bhakti. If somebody loves a person, another human being, there itself you find happiness. But the thing is, we love a human being, it's happiness mixed with misery also. When you love... Not one particular person.
You love in general everybody. Now you might say, that's a nice thing to say, but how does that work? How is it possible to love everybody? It is possible if you love God.
Those who have bhakti towards Ishwara, to Bhagawan. So that of course requires faith. So if you have faith in God, you see God in every being.
Equally so. It doesn't matter who that person is. A friend, a relative, a stranger, or even a person you perceive to be inimical to yourself.
But if you see God in all of them, them, from your perspective, a feeling of love, devotion goes out towards them. And the first beneficiary is you yourself. We ourselves are the first beneficiaries of love. When we love, we first find joy within ourselves.
We find light within ourselves. We find lightness within ourselves. Even a stressful situation is easily acceptable.
Parents put up with so much stress because of kids. That's because of love. So we can overcome stress, attain peace, joy through love, through bhakti.
Love of God and love of all beings through the love of God. There are many, many such examples. And finally, through the practice of Jnana, the path of Advaita Vedanta, when I realize what my true nature is, see there is a peace gained out of adharmika life, there is a peace gained out of nishkama karmakaya, karma karma yoga there's a peace gained out of yoga shutting down the mind there's a peace gained out of filling the mind with love and devotion to god all powerful ways and all necessary now we come to the crux of the matter how do we how does Advaita Vedanta help us in getting peace? How does it help us in overcoming stress?
From an Advaitic perspective, if we realize who or what we truly are, we will realize we are forever beyond, forever beyond the possibility of stress also. Stress can affect the body, it can affect the mind, but it will not affect who or what we truly are. And when we realize that, the interesting thing is the realization comes in the mind. The mind in which we realize I am the... Atman.
I am pure consciousness. In that mind, stress goes down. So, peace, attainment of peace, overcoming stress is possible through self-realization. How so? I will talk about it for a short while and then we will open it up for questions.
I was saying today and yesterday also, this is the land of Vedanta. Like Triveni, Advaita, Vishisht Advaita, Advaita, they have a confluence in the land of Karnataka. The Sringeri Peeta is here.
Adi Shankaracharya was here. Sri Ramanujacharya was here. Madhavacharya, of course, Udupi is here. So the great traditions of Dwaita, Vishishta Dwaita, Advaita, they all flow in this land.
So I was thinking of taking a little bit of material from one of my favorite Advaita masters who was here, Vidyaranya Swami, 600 years ago. So in his Panchadarshi, he uses the story of the tenth man. I have used it sometimes.
Some of you must have heard this. He uses it to great effect. He analyzes the whole of spiritual path, the path of Advaita using that story of the tenth man.
Briefly, here is the story of the tenth man, how he uses it for Advaita and how we can use it. experientially for overcoming stress attainment of peace. Here goes. First the story it is well known to all of us.
Ten people set out on a on a journey and ten friends on the way they came across a river and they crossed the river and then they thought have we all crossed or did somebody die and just by the way whenever I hear the story I remember statistics When I studied statistics as a kid, I mean back in college, now I gather it's known as data science, the same subject. I say... Now...
Yeah, and I also hear it's really big now, it's really big. But the first class in statistics, they have all these quotes. There are lies, damn lies and statistics. And there was a funny little story about the follies of statistics.
So a gentleman with his family, he was going across a river. and before crossing the river he said, wait, wait, there are little children in the family, let me measure. And so he measured the river and he found overall the average depth was, you know, like, so four feet or something like that.
So average depth, fine. And average height of our family is above four feet, so we will cross. He crossed, it's a bit of an awful story because the youngest child was not found afterwards.
And then he crossed and there was despair. What happened to the kid? Where is the kid?
And they realized the kid must have drowned. But that man was puzzled. He again worked it out, average height, average depth. And then he composed this couplet, which I still remember after more than 30 years. Arba jeon ka tyoon, kunba dooba kyun.
Arba is Arabic, you know, so for calculations. The calculations are still the same. Arba jeon ka tyoon. Kunba means relative.
So why did my child drown? Now these people crossed, luckily they were not statisticians, they crossed and then they were worse than statisticians. One of them thought, have we all crossed or did somebody drown?
Let's count. 7, 8, 9. Wait a minute. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Oh my god, the 10th person is not there.
10th person has drowned. The other said, no, no, let me count, let me count. And they started counting. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Oh my god, the 10th person has drowned. And they sat down.
started wailing and then a passerby comes and he asks what's wrong my friends why are you crying well we were 10 and we crossed the river and now we are nine our friend the 10th person unfortunate person was washed away he's drowned he's dead we are weeping for him that person must have counted and he said look Don't cry. The tenth person is there. That's what the Guru tells us.
That's what Advaita Vedanta tells us, you know. Don't cry. Don't weep. There is a solution to the suffering of this world. And the solution is self-realization.
The tenth person is there. They said, where is the tenth person? We know the tenth person is not there.
How do you know? We counted. There are only nine of us. And then this person says, well, at least we'll count again.
I'll show you. And then they stand up and one of them starts counting. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. I told you.
And this man comes and takes this counter's hand and turns it this way and says, Dashama sthwamasi, you are the 10th. 10. This man says, oh, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. 10. Oh, the 10th person has been found. Yeah, that deserves a clap. And then the others say, let me try, let me try. And they all try and they all find the 10th person.
And they're so happy. So that's the story. Now Vidyaranja Swami, what he does is, look at this story.
This shows the entire spiritual journey, at least according to Advaita Vedanta. And he divides it into seven stages. Stage one, Ajnaana, ignorance.
They don't know the tenth person. It starts there. They don't know.
They can't find the tenth person. Ajnaana. Then quickly it is followed by Brahma or Adhyasa technically. There is an error.
Ignorance is usually followed by error. If we don't know, we end up making a mistake. What is the error? I can't find the 10th person.
That's ignorance. And that means the 10th person might have drowned, has been kidnapped or whatnot. Missing.
So that's ignorance. That's an error. Ignorance is I can't find the 10th person. The error is drowned.
And then the result is, third step is dukkha, suffering. They wail and cry and they're in terror. What happened? Then the teacher comes and says, don't worry, the tenth person is there.
This is the fourth stage. The fourth stage is Paroksha Gyan, indirect knowledge. Why indirect knowledge?
Because remember, when that person said the tenth person is there, what was the reaction of all of them? Where? Well, you are telling us we will believe you.
You seem to be a good person. You are telling us we will believe you. So we will believe you. You have told us. I have heard about it.
I haven't found it out yet for myself. But, okay, I take it on trust. That's called paroksha jnana.
indirect knowledge, not direct knowledge. We haven't found it out yet. Then the fifth stage comes when you are the tenth. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Oh, I am the tenth. Now what was indirect knowledge?
The tenth person is there. It is now found as I am the tenth person here. I get it. This is called direct knowledge.
Aparoksha jnana. Direct knowledge. And, although technically if you translate, Aparoksha Gyanai is non-indirect knowledge. Double negative is used. So, direct knowledge.
Then the sixth stage comes. What happens after direct knowledge? Dukha Nivritti.
The sorrow, the tenth person is dead and we are crying for that. That goes away immediately. And then what happens after that? They are all happy.
Ananda Prapti. They attain their natural peace. So seven stages. You are thinking, what were the first three again?
Ajnana, ignorance. Then? Brahma or adhyasa, error, error, mistake. Then, dukkha, suffering.
Then, paroksha jnana, indirect knowledge. Then, aparoksha jnana, direct knowledge. Then, dukkha nivritti, cessation.
of sorrow and then ananda prapti, attainment of peace or joy. The sixth stage is overcoming stress and the seventh stage is attainment of peace what we were talking about. How does that work actually in Vedanta? So The stage of ignorance is, according to Vedanta, what we think of ourselves right now. I am this person.
Who are you? I am this person. I do not really know who I am.
Because according to Vedanta, you are Brahman. You are infinite existence, consciousness, bliss. And our first reaction is, I don't think so.
I think I am this guy. And I have this little, you know, my personal history. These are my problems.
so we start there that's ignorance i don't know what i am since i don't know that i am satchidananda brahman what i know is the first thing that is presented to me this mind thoughts feelings emotions memory And this body. So this mind and body are presented to me in my awareness. So I immediately error, mistake.
I take it to be myself. Who am I? This one. Here.
What is this? I. You see the mutual imposition. What am I? This one.
And what is this? I. So I mutually identify body and mind with the self.
And the self with the body mind. This is called this adhyasa. Imposition. Superimposition.
Superimposition. And this leads to suffering. Why does this lead to suffering?
Naturally. The body and mind are deeply limited things. The moment I identify myself with that, I have disease and aging and ultimately death.
I identify myself with the mind. I have desire and frustration. Even if I get fulfilled my desires, then new desires come up.
And I have envy and jealousy and hatred, negativities in the mind. all of that becomes mine. I am full of sorrow and trouble and misery.
That comes from the error and the error comes from the ignorance. So this sorrow and misery, this is the third stage. In the fourth stage comes Vedanta. Vedanta says, Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma Taitirupanishad Brahman is infinite existence consciousness. Our reaction is good for Brahman.
What is it to me? Tatva Masi. You are that. Then you cannot say that. You can't shrug.
What is it to me? It's a very funny but very personal story. I'll share it.
The monks especially will enjoy it. Those who have seen Bhutesh Anandaji Maharaj, the 12th president of our order. So, he was a very funny person, but he never laughed. He would have you all laughing. He would speak with a slow drawl.
There are endless stories. I can abandon the Vedanta class and talk about his stories and the jokes and all. This particular thing I just remembered.
So, Swami Bhuteshanji is the president of the entire... Ramakrishna Mathin, Billur Mathin sitting, and I and many others, we had all gone to offer our pranams to Maharaj. And Swami Chetan Anandaji, who had come...
from St. Louis, the Vedanta Society of St. Louis. He was visiting India and he came to offer pranams to Rev. Swami Bhuteshanandaji. There are people from St. Louis here. They came, they offered pranams to Bhuteshanandaji, Bhuteshanji Maharaj.
And so, Jethananji had some questions which he is asking. And then Bhuteshanji Maharaj said, Do that thing which Americans do. What Maharaj? Shrugging. And then he himself showed.
It was so funny, I still remember. This little old man is sitting there, he did this. And we all burst out laughing.
And we all said, Maharaj, do it again, do it again. Shrugging. Yes, I still remember that.
So you can't shrug when you say Tat Tvam Asi. Brahman is infinite existence consciousness, bliss. But when you say you are that Brahman, we have to say, oh really? How is that possible?
I think I am this person. How am I infinite? Infinite existence, infinite consciousness.
I think I am this body which is limited. It was born, it's going to die at one time, unfortunately. And it's a very limited size. Mind has very limited knowledge and capacity.
And yes, consciousness, I understand. I have some consciousness. I am a body with consciousness.
consciousness. But Vedanta says, no, you are consciousness itself and limitless consciousness at that, in limitless existence, beyond the possibility of death, beyond the possibility of sorrow also. So this is told to us. What is this stage? The stage of paroksha jnana, indirect knowledge.
We are like ... Well, Upanishad is telling us, Swami is telling us, let us accept it. All right, it's possible.
Parokshagyana, I accept it. I sort of understand it also, but it's not directly available to me right now. Can you show it to me directly?
There is a time in the text, Vakya Vritti, when Shankaracharya, you know, he has written this book, the Guru is teaching the disciple. At one point, the Guru shows the disciple that you are not the body, not the mind. And the disciple says to the Guru, if I am not the body mind then show me what I am like a fruit like a amalaki on the palm of my hand show me that directly because body and mind is something that I directly experience now you are telling me I am not body mind then what I am that you show me directly the Upanishad takes up the challenge good I will show you And that showing how the Upanishad will show us their Vidyaranya Swami, he connects it with the 10th man story.
Just follow this technique right now, listen to it and you can actually keep checking personally in your experience right now. Who knows, by the time we leave this auditorium, we will be enlightened. Or we might have melted from the heat or whatever it is. So the Upanishad says that, Oh, so you don't think you are Satchitananda, Atman, Brahman? No.
Then what do you think you are? Very clear, this one. So this body. Alright, let's start with the body.
I am this body. Upanishad says this is called the Annamaya, the physical body which is made or transformed out of food. It's a transformation of food. What we eat and drink is transformed into this body.
So I am this body. This is a fact. All our bodies are basically transformations of food. What we eat and drink.
I had told this story a number of times but I didn't know who it was about. There was this Hollywood actress in the 1960s who used to visit our center in Hollywood and she was interviewed and She was asked this question, what is the secret of your beauty? The Italian actress. It was Greta Garbo, actually. What's the secret of your beauty?
She said, oh, this is pasta. What she meant is, what you are seeing as a beautiful body is actually transformation of pasta. So body is annamaya, a transformation of food.
And Then the Upanishad says, okay, you think you are the body. Yes. But this body changes so much. From babyhood, once it is born, from babyhood to childhood to teenage to middle age to old age, it changes so much. If you are body, which one are you?
We say, all of it. All of it. But that's not logical. the baby's body and the old person's body are so different in size and shape and look and it's so different if i am the same one the one who was in the baby's body and one who was in this old person's body if i am the same one how can i be same as that one and this one if a is not equal to c how can b be equal to a and c at the same time i'm using this language one sadhu to whom it was said you know don't leave hume. I am the baby's body also and the grown-up's body.
Why? What is wrong in that? Sadhu said, wah, gada bhi aur ghoda bhi. How can you be a donkey and a horse at the same time?
Very different. See, these are not, you might think that this is not exactly strict rigorous proof, you know. It's not mathematically rigorous.
It is not. It's not meant to be a mathematical proof. It's meant to be more like a law. lawyer's argument, you know, something that is sort of trying to convince a jury. So there are series of battery of arguments.
Upanishad says continuously changing body and you have the intuitive feeling that I am the same person. How can you be the same person if you are that continuously changing body? Not only that, a deeper argument would be that this body is an object of your experience, right? And you are the experiencer.
You are the drashta, the body is drascha. Dashta and Drishya, Seer and the Seen are always different. I see this, this must be different from my eyes.
I experience the body, I see it, I can touch it, I can hear the tummy rumbling, I can feel it, you know, warmth of the body, I can even taste the taste of the body. All five senses objectify the body. So it's a thing, an object, it's drishya. I am the drashta. I am the experiencer of the body, just as I am the experiencer of this podium.
How can this body be me? How can it be I? It's an object to me.
So therefore, the body is is a drishya, I am drashta, I cannot be the body because drashta and drishya cannot be the same thing. One more argument. There are multiple arguments.
I can give you at least 8 or 9 arguments. But one more is I am conscious of the body. The body itself is not conscious of me or itself or anything else. This is a very interesting way of looking at it.
You are aware. All of us, we agree. I am aware.
Whatever I am, I am aware. I am aware of the body. Is the body aware of me? I have a simple experiment. If I look at my hand, I am aware of my hand.
Is the hand aware of me? Is it saying, hello, Sarvapriyananda, long time no see? No. It's an object. I have no experience of the sense that the hand is somehow aware of me.
I am aware of the hand. Again, I know it's a strange way of arguing, but it's very intuitive. It's psychologically valid.
That's how we feel from our experience. It's what philosophers would call a phenomenological argument, an argument from our experience, lived experience. Because the body changes, I do not change. Intuitively I feel that.
Savikara, nirvikara. Because the body is an object of experience, I am the experience. Drishya and drashta. Because the body is not conscious, jada, and I am conscious of the body, chetana. Because of these reasons, I cannot be the body.
And then we look inwards. Then what am I? If I am not the body, I am there.
But then what am I if I am not the body? What other candidate can I propose? Well, then the Upanishad says, how about prana, life itself, of which breathing is one, is the most obvious manifestation.
Life. Am I life? Good argument actually.
Good candidate for the self. Am I life itself? And again, the same arguments.
Does prana change? Yes, it changes. Breathing in and breathing out. Hunger and thirst. These are all manifestations of prana.
I eat, hunger and thirst are gone. Tiredness and energy. Ill health and good health.
All of these are manifestations of prana. And it keeps changing. But I am the same one who was hungry, now I am full.
I am the same one who was sleepy, now I am alert. Same one who was ill, now I am healthy. I am the same one.
Prana has changed substantially. Then how can I be the Prana? Savikara, Nirvikara. Is it a drishya, observable?
Yes, it is. All your mindfulness meditation depends on that. It's a multi-billion dollar industry in USA now. Mindfulness.
Observe your breathing. Breathing in, I am peaceful. Breathing out, I am smiling.
This is one exercise. Thik Nathana. Miracle of mindfulness. He passed away recently. Enormous impact he had on United States.
But from a Vedantic perspective, we observe one thing. That breathing is observable. So, that means breathing is drishya, an object of observation. I am the drashta, the seer of the breath. How can the drashta and drishya be the same?
How can I be the breath? By extension, how can I be prana? And then consciousness, not conscious.
I am conscious of breathing. Breathing is not conscious by itself. Remember, these are two subtle but close arguments, but they are not the same arguments.
Drashtha and Drishya is one argument. Chetan and Jara... Jada is another argument. They seem similar. Because of these reasons, I am not the prana.
Good, Upanishad says. Then what are you? How about the mind? Do you think you are the mind?
Anyu antara atma manomayaha. We say, yeah, yeah, that's what I want. I never wanted to say that I am the body or prana or any such silly thing.
I am a mind, a thinking entity, a person with memories and ideas and a personal story, a personal biography. I am a person. Yeah, that's right. I am a mind. Does it change?
Oh, it changes. From the morning till now, how many times bored, how many times excited, how many times relaxed, how many times annoyed, irritated, how many times happy, how many times sad or depressed. In one day, till now, how much it changes.
Mind is the name of a stream of psychic changes. So mind changes, but I cannot deny, I, whoever I am, whatever I am, I was the one who was bored. Now I am the one who is excited, hopefully.
You know, being excited in New York, especially in New York, being excited is a sign of mental health. First thing they'll ask is, anything? If you are given a new t-shirt, are you excited? And you have to say, yes, I am so excited. But from a Vedantic perspective, no, One of our Swami is very humorous.
He is an American Swami, Atmarupanandaji. So he says, look at the food commercials, cereals. Everybody is so happy, delighted, dancing. He says, no, no, no food on the world can give you so much happiness. If food is making you so deliriously happy, it's called mental illness.
So mind, it changes so much. I am the same person, bored or excited, same person who was thinking one thing, now I am thinking the other thing or thinking nothing. So mind changes, I am the same one. Mind is also observed. If we introspect, our thoughts, feelings, emotions, we feel it.
Just look into your mind, you will feel it. I am thinking this, I am feeling that, I am remembering the other thing or I cannot remember. That also.
We observe the mind, the memory, the sensations. All of them are observed. Drishya and the drashta of the mind, whatever I am. And even more interesting, and here it gets really strange and quite, you know, this is something new we begin to see.
The mind is not conscious in itself. We are conscious of the mind. You might say, whatever do you mean, Swami? Try this small experiment.
Think a thought. Swami, no thought is coming. The mind is very mischievous. If you want to control the mind, full of thoughts. If you want the mind, please think a thought.
Swami is telling, no thought. Alright, no thought. Blankness. Whether it is a thought, a simple thought.
Let me suggest a simple thought. ABCD. We immediately thought ABCD. ABCD. Now, are you aware of ABCD or is ABCD aware of you?
You say, of course, I am aware of ABCD. ABCD is just like mental talk. It's not aware of me. It's not aware of anything else.
It's not aware of itself also. Thoughts are like that. All thoughts, images, a mental talk to ourselves. We are aware of them.
They are not aware of us. They are not aware of each other also. They are not aware of themselves also.
We are aware. We, whatever I am, I am aware of the thoughts. The thoughts are not conscious. Chetana jara.
I am Chetana, thoughts are jara. This is a tremendous insight. This difference between consciousness and mind at this point, this is something basic in Vedanta. This is a thought that, this is an idea that is very much needed in modern consciousness studies, in a modern philosophy of mind. We have been discussing this in philosophy departments with neuroscientists and all.
When you say consciousness studies, they mean mind, mind and consciousness. But mind and consciousness are not the same, but without direct experience. Thoughts are objects which we experience. Consciousness is that which experiences. They are two different things.
So the mind, I am not the mind either. Why? Savikara tvaat. Aham nirvikara. Mind is changing.
I do not change. The mind is drishya. I am the drashta.
The mind is jada. I am the chetana. Oh, then I am not the mind. No.
Then what am I? Maybe I am the intellect dividing the mind into another function. Buddhi. The same argument applies that when you look at the intellect, the capacity of the mind by which we are trying to understand these things. Whatever we try to understand.
But that also, does it change? Yes, it changes from not understanding to understanding. I work hard at a mathematical problem.
I don't get it. I don't get it. And suddenly I get it. The buddhi changed from not understanding, not getting it, to understanding or getting it.
Buddhi changes. I am the same one who did not understand. Now I am the same one who understood. So this not understanding and understanding, that refers to a changing buddhi.
I am the same. Similarly, the buddhi is the drishya. I am aware of the buddhi. And I am Drashta.
Buddhi is Jada. I am Chetana. Therefore, I cannot be the Buddhi. The Vijnanamaya Kosha. Then what am I?
Remember what we have already crossed. Physical body. Annamaya.
The pranic body. Pranamaya. The mental body.
Manomaya. The buddhi. Vijnanamaya. None of them I am. Why not?
Because of these reasons. And remember it's not an intellectual argument. You can actually see it for yourself.
Changing, not changing. True or not in your own experience. Drashta and Drishya, true or not, in your own experience.
Chetana and Jara, in our own experience, true or not, we can check. And therefore, I must admit that the body is there, mind is there, Prana is there, Buddhi is there, but I am not literally those things. They are there, just like this is there.
Then what am I? If you push beyond that, you'll find a blankness. Just nothing.
If you try experientially, if you say that body is not, just simulate it. And the breath stops. Don't stop breathing.
And then the thinking has stopped. The buddhi has stopped. No memories, no sense of ego, no recollection, no sense perceptions.
It's all stopped. Silence. You'll just get silence. Blankness.
But that blankness, that's called the Anandamaya. That is also subject to change. According to Vedanta, there the three gunas are still playing.
That's in the deep sleep stage. And that stage comes and goes also. We go into deep sleep and we come out of it.
It's also a potential state where all our samskaras are in the seed form. So that Anandamaya, let's just take it that I am not that. Because that's also something that is experienced.
Now. Whatever I said, whatever I thought I could be, this physical body, then inside more subtle breath, prana. Then more inside, anyu antara atma, more inside, more inside means again, not physically inside.
If you physically go inside the body, you will get more body. And the worst part of the body. All sorts of icky, gooey, liquid stuff will come. But inward in our own experience, thoughts, I am not that also, Manomaya.
Look inwards, the Buddhi which is active here, I am not even that, Vijnanamaya. And beyond that, nothing, blankness, Anandamaya, not even that. Then what am I?
If I am none of these, then I don't exist. But you do exist. In Upanishad, the student tells the teacher, Asad Brahma iti veda chet.
Then Brahman is not there, Atman is not there. Whatever I thought I was, you said no, no, no. You have convinced me. I also agree. I am none of these things.
But then I can't find myself. What am I? I can't find myself. The teacher says, but you do exist. The tenth man does exist.
How will you find? Normally when we teach these things in any Vedanta textbook, you will find Panchakosha Viveka. You are not, the self is not Annamaya, Pranamaya, Manomaya, Vijnanamaya, Anandamaya.
It is Atma, Satchitananda. Done. Finished. Disaster. You know why it's a disaster?
The Upanishad does not do this. Upanishad goes up to the Anandamaya, the blankness, darkness. It's such a skillful teacher, such a skillful teacher. The ultimate in pedagogy. It goes up to that darkness, blankness and then stops.
Doesn't say anything. This is where Vidyaranya brings in the 10th man story. He says, now you will use the 10th man story. Let's see if it works. You can try it now.
At best, you will become illumined. At worst, you will fall asleep. This is one of the two things.
These are the only two outcomes in Vedanta. Usually people fall asleep or they become illumined, enlightened. How will the 10th man story... work.
I'll first tell you a little bit and then we'll try it for ourselves. So as we consider the body, the prana, the mind, this is like counting 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. There is the 10th man. You are the 10th.
Dasa mastuamasi. This turn. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Then 10th. This turn we will have to do for ourselves.
You see, let me ask you the question. Why did this person not find the 10th man? Why this person did not find? He found nine. Why did he not find the tenth one?
He will say, he did not count himself. He did not count himself. But let me ask you a more pertinent and deeper question.
Why did he not count himself? He was seeing outside. But why was he seeing outside?
Because there is a very good reason why he was seeing outside. This is the basis of why it's so difficult in consciousness studies to understand what consciousness is. Exactly the 10th man story. Why was he seeing outside? Because the other 9 were?
Other nine were visible outside. He has pretty good precedent that the tenth man must be outside. Why? Those nine other fellows are outside.
Where else will the tenth man be? Everything that we have found in our lives till now, every experience we have had, whatever we have seen, is an object. It's an object externally in the world which we can see, hear, smell, taste, touch. Or it's an object in our minds, thoughts, emotions, ideas, personality, memories, desires, projects.
They are all objects, objects, objects. Till we have come to this idea, that's it, that's reality. What else can there be?
So this consciousness, Atman, Brahman, even if we say it is non-objective, pure subject, we may use those words, we are still looking for an object. is still looking for an object to cure us of that in that sort of almost incurable objectifying tendency the Upanishad keeps quiet at that point and then we will use the tenth man maneuver to see ourselves. as the pure subject, not as object.
See, if the Upanishad had said, this is the Anandamaya and then beyond this, you are Atma. If it had said it outright, what would have happened to us? We would have started looking for one Atma.
Here, I have found the Anandamaya, Pranamaya, Manomaya, Vijnanamaya, Anandamaya. Now, where is that Atma? Never find it. Never find it. I never thought, I never quote Jindu Krishnamurti, but here I have to quote him.
He said, you have invented these terms, Atman, Brahman. Try to find it, you will never ever find it. Why? Because he says, these are his words, this is because it is empty. It is empty of anything called a self.
You will never ever find it, because it does not exist as an object. But he never says it does not exist at all. That's why I always consider Advaita Vedanta and Shunyavada Buddhism, Madhyamaka Buddhism, seems to be absolutely opposite.
But they are very good correctives for each other. Because if you follow Advaita Vedanta closely, it seems to talk about something called Atman Brahman consciousness, Ratchidananda. It's not a thing. Here, I may differ with Krishnamurti on many points, but here Krishnamurti is absolutely right. It's not a thing.
You can never find it. And if you follow Tibetan Buddhism, Madhyamaka Buddhism closely, you will end up thinking they are talking about nothing. But that's not true.
That's not fair. They clearly say, we are not talking about asat, non-existence. So when you put them together, you realize it's not a thing. The ultimate reality is not a thing. It's not nothing also.
It is no thing. No hyphen thing. So that turn. Let us try it and then we'll take questions. All right.
If you feel like, if you're comfortable, just sit upright, relaxed. What we will do now, we'll put our attention to the physical body. Then we'll slowly turn our attention inwards to the breath.
Breathing in, breathing out. Attention. You have to put attention there. And note, this is pranamaya.
Then turn your attention further inwards to thoughts. Whatever is coming, if thoughts are not coming, you can use ABCD or blank. And you say, this is manomaya. It's an object. It's not me.
Then turn your attention even further, subtly, to the intellect. the analytical faculty which I am using right now. And again use those arguments and say, this is not me. Then blank. Absolutely nothing.
Stop. not me. Then you have to do this, turning that, I cannot teach you. Tat tvamasi is that you are the tenth, dashamastvamasi, that pointing towards yourself, that witness of these five sheets.
The luminosity which illumines these five. What is experiencing these five? What is the one looking at those nine?
That is the tenth. To whom are these five pancha kosha appearing? Who is the one counting and examining these pancha kosha or illumining them?
That one. We will see now. Alright. This is the procedure.
Breathe in and out. Relaxed. Tighten hands and feet muscles or thigh muscles, tummy muscles a little bit and let them go. And notice, this is the body. Annamaya Kosha.
The Annamaya. And I am not this. Ever-changing, trishya, jadas. Non-sentient.
Object of experience, ever-changing. I, the unchanging experiencer, conscious, am not this body. Look inwards.
Shift your attention to the breath. Breathe in, breathe out. Just now what happened? Notice that. It's a changing thing.
It's a drishya. I experienced it. It is not aware. I am aware of it. I, the awareness, the drashta, the unchanging, cannot be this changing drishya, jada, breath, prana.
Then turn your attention inwards to thoughts. Right now you are having sensations. thoughts, memories. At the very least, you are listening to my words and understanding them. Those are thoughts.
But they are also changing. These thoughts are also changing. These thoughts are also drishya, experienced.
I am the experiencer of these thoughts, clearly. These thoughts are not aware. I am aware of them.
These thoughts are savikara, drishya, jara. I am nirvikara, drashta and cetana. I cannot be these thoughts. Turn inwards further.
The intellect itself, it's part of the mind itself, but that which is trying to understand, which is the faculty of comprehension, that also changes. That is also seen, drishya, that is also yada. I am the witness of the buddhi.
Vijnanamaya also I am not. Then try to simulate, I am not experiencing a world, I am not hearing anything, seeing anything, smelling anything, tasting, touching anything. I am not thinking of anything, remembering anything, I am not imagining anything, waiting for anything. I am not even thinking, I, just blank, something like deep sleep experience. But that also is an object, a blankness, an absence.
And I am aware of that absence. From that absence, like the turning into the you are the tenth, who or what is observing? Now here one subtle thing.
Do not try to grasp the observer. You will never find it. You will just find emptiness. Just meticulously purge yourself the observer of all observed.
Not body, not breath, not mind, not intellect, not blankness. What is it? Stay with that. This silent luminosity to which everything appears.
Notice, it does not change. Everything else changes. Notice, it does not worry. It has nothing to worry about. It does not feel fear.
It does not feel anything. It illumines feelings in the mind. It is just shining, light shining.
Being changeless, it cannot die. Being beyond thought, it neither feels fear nor anxiety. It has no sense of being incomplete, no desires.
This one is always present, this luminosity which I am. Now, if you feel comfortable, you can slowly open your eyes. And notice something interesting.
That luminosity, that light which illumines the darkness of the blankness, that is still there now. It is that light which illumines the mind and through the mind the body. It is that light which experiences the world through the senses. You are, I am, always that light and that light alone. With the layer of the mind, that light now illumines thoughts.
With the layer of the senses, now that light illumines seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. With the layer of the body, that light now has the capacity to do action in the world and move around and interact. But always I am that light. And as that light, that luminosity, that tenth man, that pure subject away from all the five objective sheets of the personality.
That entirely problem-free existence. That I am all the time. Tatva Masi. That one is beyond stress.
If there is stress in the body-mind, that's the one which illumines the stress in the body-mind. But it does not have stress by itself. It cannot. That one does not need peace, attainment of peace.
No. It is peace itself. Mandukya calls it Shantam. Not Shanti Purna. Not Shanta.
Shantam means it is peace itself. And when the knowledge of I am that comes to the mind, the mind becomes peaceful. Mind gets shanti.
It's the peace which does not, which cannot be lost. It's always there. It just has to be recognized. This light, this luminosity which we are, is always available.
You may not think about it, but it's always there if you note. And anytime you want, it's available to us. If there is a problem, if anxiety comes in the mind, for example, then mind anxiety is there, it was not there, it has come appearing to that one light. I am that light, not the anxiety in the mind.
You will find the anxiety also slowly fades away. I am always that light. This is Atma Jnana. From this perspective, I'll just add one more point. When we start acting in the world, it's not that you step away from the world that I am this light and that's it.
It's all finished. The world is there. Body and mind are appearing. As this witness consciousness, when I engage now with the body-mind and through the body-mind into the world, I engage from a position of security, a position of peace, a position of completeness, then my engagement with the world will have a qualitative difference.
I will engage not as an anxious person. Who is that writer who said, most men live lives of quiet desperation. No more quiet desperation. Relaxed. Swami Vivekananda met the great agnostic.
Who is that person? Robert Ingersoll in America. In fact, if you Google, recently a book was published from Yale University about his life. Robert Ingersoll. Ingersoll's life.
It's called the great agnostic. So Ingersoll told Swami Vivekananda, I don't need your spirituality, religion. I believe in this life only.
And I believe in squeezing the orange of this life dry with the last drop. Swami Vivekananda said, I believe that too. And then he says, but I differ in my choice of fruit. I prefer a mango.
But I know that I cannot die. Therefore, I am not in a hurry. I have no fear or no anxiety.
Therefore, I enjoy the squeezing of the fruit. Squeeze the fruit in this way and gain ten thousand fold more. Get every last drop. This is the way to lead life. Thank you very much.
Thank you Maharaj for your deep insights into such a relevant topic and also sharing the Advaitic insights on the same topic. So we can begin our question and answer session. For some time we are already like past time. So I would request the audience to request... them restrict themselves to the topic of the talk and be crisp as well as clear while asking the questions.
And please raise your hands if you have any questions. Our volunteers will come to your seat and offer your mic. through which you can ask them. So we'll go from two sides of the hall, you know, this middle and this side and then they're back again. Pranam Swamiji.
Tell us your name and ask the question. Yes, Shodhra. My question is about in this turning inward and self-realization, what is the role of a mystical experience?
This whole thing about the vision of oneness which I've never had. I don't know if I'll ever have it. Is it a necessity on the path to self-realization? That's a difficult question. Notice the way I just spoke about it.
It does not talk about any particular mystical experience. It's a procedure. If we follow it, we'll come upon it. Now even this, I can tell you this much. That breakthrough when it comes, when we realize we are the non-objective pure subject.
It's a clear... It's a clear demarcation. Suddenly it dawns upon us, oh this is what I am. I always was this, I never saw it earlier.
There is a clear jump. Just as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, if you had got 10 there it would have been normal. But if you go from 9 to 10 here it's a clear jump. It's a discontinuity. Somebody was telling me, do you understand the concept of singularity in mathematics?
It's a singularity Singularity. There is something there. Now, if you want to call that a mystic experience, you can call it a mystic experience because it is so tremendous, it is so unforgettable and after that it is so effortlessly present always that you can call it a mystic experience. And of course, mystic experiences are of various types. This is one path I am talking about.
It is an Advaitic inquiry. This is, in Upanishads, one word is used, Shruti Shira or Shruti Shikara. This is the peak of the mountain. This is the highest and the final. But then, beautiful valleys and flowers and gardens.
So, there are many kinds of mystical experiences. True, genuine mystical experiences are there and they are very helpful in spiritual life. That's all I can say. Thank you. So, somebody from the middle and then we will...
Then we'll go to this side. Hello Swami. Tell us your name. My name is Sachin.
So the question is, if no mind delivers or stopping thinking or thoughts delivers bliss, is there a benefit or what is the benefit of associating with? with the infinite bliss or the way you put it, the one consciousness or one reality, right? So what is that additional benefit or how does it manifest?
That was one question that I had. And we have to, sorry to interrupt you, but we have to understand that question, I I did not totally understand it. You said if no mind delivers bliss, what does that mean?
So if I stop thinking, if I don't get any thoughts at all, there is no fear, no anxiety, because it is all... All just thoughts at the end of the day. So stopping of that is really just bliss, right? It's your normal state.
So let me just deal with that. It's a subtle question, but an important thing to clarify here. That's something that you get in deep sleep. You don't need Advaita Vedanta for that.
We get it and naturally, every day, hopefully, all of us get deep sleep. And you are right. It's a peaceful state.
It's a trouble-free state. Especially for people who are deeply troubled. Deep sleep is highly recommended.
That's why sedatives are given. That's why also, people get drunk, people want drugs, they want to suppress thinking. Somebody said it very poignantly. In America, suicide, thank God at least that problem has not yet come here. First they will shoot some people and then kill themselves.
So, have you noticed why people shoot themselves in the head? Whatever the reason is. One reason is, this is so, it's like a torture.
This thinking, thinking and anxious thinking, bad thinking. People want to blow it out, stop it. So that's why deep sleep, drug addiction, this alcohol dependency, all of that is basically trying to suppress thinking. This is a very important point.
Advaita is not that. Why we did it, what listening to N.K. keeping in mind.
Advaita is not stopping thinking. Why we did all this is to see yourself as Atman separate from illumining the thinking mind. However, the last part which we did, notice, we noticed that even when I am opening my eyes and engaging with the world and thoughts are coming into the mind, I am still that light.
It's because of me that the thought is experienced. It is because of me that feelings are experienced. It is because of me the light that I can see, hear, smell, taste, touch.
One sadhu put it this way, I'll tell you in Hindi. Very powerful statement. Advaita pratiti ko mitana nahi chahta hai. Advaita aapko vyavahar mein nirubhad banata hai. Advaita, non-duality, does not want to erase the world experience.
Deep sleep is enough for that. Advaita does not want to erase the world experience. Advaita makes you, nirvaad is very difficult to translate, makes you limitless, fearless, completely free in worldly experience.
In the middle of worldly experience also. See, one thing I did not complete. This particular light which we discover is actually the one light in all beings. And not only that, all beings are appearances in that one light.
So, there is nothing here which is a barrier to that light, to that consciousness. Barrier means other than. Everything is an appearance of that consciousness.
So, you are Nirvada in Vyavahara, in transaction, in dealing with people. There is no second reality apart from that one consciousness which you are. that gives you tremendous freedom from anxiety and fear in this life like Vivekananda said I am in no hurry I have no fear or anxiety I enjoy every moment of this existence Swami so just a follow up is the identification with that luminosity that you are talking about is that required or forget suppressing but if with the clarity that the thought of fear or what whatever, right? So, that is the actual root cause and hence it dissolves. Yes, correct.
And if you are at that, do you need the identification further on and what is the benefit and what is the manifestation? Right. So, if you stop the thought, then the fear, anxiety, they all dissolve. But they don't dissolve.
They go back into a seed state. The moment thought starts again, what happens to drunkards? They end up in, you know, in America, it's alcoholic anonymous. They end up in, it's a big problem.
that there are all these detoxification centers all over, alcohol dependency, drug dependency. Does it permanently solve the problem of anxiety, fear, unhappiness? No.
It will come back. It will come back worse. We have reduced drugs and all these things reduce us to a tamasic state.
So that will not solve. Suppose deep sleep is the solution, then let's sleep forever. That is the highest spirituality.
No, it will not solve. It's like a seed remaining in a seed state. It will sprout again. Whereas, Advaitic realization solves it once forever.
Once I realize I am that light, luminosity are ever problem free. And then in the midst of the thinking mind and working senses, in the midst of the world, I am also problem free completely. Because there is nothing here which is other than me.
That same consciousness is now appearing as its own objects. Thanks. Thanks for me.
Last one. Realization seems to be a function of time and effort, like by tradition, but the way you put it today, it more seems to be a function of just clarity, which is observation. So, just trying to reconcile when you say in other talks around Shravanamanana, Nididhyasana, is it misleading? No, no, no.
If you are one of the lucky few by this talk right now, you have become illumined. Congratulations. We will give you an award.
But I don't think there are many of those. The reason is, all the other effort that will not lead to enlightenment from an Advaitic perspective, only this teaching which I spoke about now, only that leads to enlightenment. That Advaitic teaching of you are that.
Put in different ways in different text. I tried one today which is called Panchakosha Viveka using Vidyaranya's story. It's from one chapter in Panchadashi what I tried today, entirely based on that. This foundation, these teachings will take root immediately. Without this foundation, if the foundation is weak, then these teachings will remain as I learned some very nice philosophy, a really cool philosophy today, nice lecture.
So, does it solve the problems of your life? Are you mad? I have more problem, I wasted one hour in lecture.
My assignment is due, my deadlines are there. No, that will happen. So, the foundational practices are necessary, time and effort, they take time and effort, there is no doubt, there is no short cut around it. Thanks Swami.
I just want to ask one thing. Yeah. For a realized person who is deeply rooted in this knowledge, Yes.
is the mind problem free or he knows that I am separate from the mind who is problem free? I am separate from the mind who is problem free. That is true.
That is true for all of us. The enlightened person knows and we don't know it. But even know it, mind is... mind has problems. However, if the mind has problems and even if I am separate from the problem-free mind, classical Advaita Vedanta says that is not Jeevan Mukti.
Jeevan Mukti means you are the witness consciousness. You realize that it's called tattva jnana. Then take care of the problems in the mind through sadhana.
Clear out the problems in the mind. They should not stay. Why should they stay? If I am pure consciousness my mind is full of depression.
Why? Why should I tolerate that silly mind being full of depression? And sadhu said rota hua jnani kisko pasand hai? So, mind of an enlightened person should not be, should not have problems. And for that, there are sadhanas which should take care of those problems.
Thank you. So, Swamiji, one question. Here? Yes. My name is Vignesh Kandeshwar.
So my question is, once you have the experience, the subjective experience, that you are separated from all the five sheets. So say you have had that experience in a deep state of meditation. But once you come back here.
All these experiences that come through the senses and the mind, do they dim that experience as you go through the world? Or you have to sustain it in some way? Once you are here, you are not able to hold on to it in some way.
way or something like that. I mean how to deal with that? Yeah.
These are very good questions. I remember in Haridwar, this exact same question was asked by a young monk to the teacher who was teaching Ramananda Saraswati. eagerly that monk was saying I am Rambhasmi, I am Rambhan this is what I have to hold on to at least that much I have to hold on because it's slipping away, I have to hold on to that I have to hold on to this, I am that consciousness that much I must hold on and that teacher very powerfully he said you must not hold on to it you see the moment I say I am holding on to it I am still depending on the mind to do something see, you are Vignesh But do you depend on the mind?
Continuously repeat the mantra, I am Vignesh, Vignesh, Vignesh, Vignesh, Vignesh. No. You don't need it.
You are perfectly confident that whenever you want to know, somebody asks, what's your name? You are perfectly confident the mind will tell you, I am Vignesh. Similarly, the realization that I am this witness consciousness.
You need not hold on to it. However, having said that, there are a whole host of practices which help you to hold on to it. Not by, in the sense that the mind will keep thinking about it. It's something, you continuously point back to it. So what, we did just now.
This can become a Nididhyasana practice. Once you understand, get it what is being said here, then that does not end the process. We can use this technique again and again to go back to that awareness and stay there for a while. Not always.
Now when you come out of that, all these experiences come. You see, hear, smell. More than seeing, hearing, the real problem is the mind.
Mind starts thinking and does it dim that experience? I have to be careful answering it. Practically, phenomenologically, when you look at it, yes, it seems to dim that experience. It seems to. The movie, when you play the movie on the screen, does the movie dim the screen?
Some will say yes, some will say um. In one sense, it sort of covers the screen. Look, it covers the screen. And yet you know what is a movie and what is a screen.
So it is not a problem for you. Even when the screen is covered with lots of pictures, full movies going on, you are still absolutely clear that it is the screen. You never say that at least part of the screen, leave it empty.
I want to keep checking whether the screen is still there or not. Little bit of the screen. No.
The screen is covered, so to say. But your knowledge of the screen. screen is not covered. Your knowledge of the screen and the pictures is not covered.
Although they are appearing to you together. In Dhrigrisha Viveka it is there. The external world of names and forms and pure being, Sat, they appear together. In the external world we are unable to distinguish names and forms from pure existence.
In the internal world we are unable to distinguish thoughts, feelings, emotions from pure consciousness. The pure existence, pure consciousness, same thing. Thank you so much. Pranams at your lotus feet of Swami Vivekananda and Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Just pass the microphone down somebody should...
Yes, here. Pranam Swamiji. I am Atharva Modi. Sorry if I misunderstood.
While you were talking, I understood that while searching for what am I, we were looking for something constant. Something constant that is observing everything. There is an inherent assumption that Atma is constant. But what if it is dynamic?
It changes with every breath. It changes with every thought. It changes with every experience that I have. Yes.
And like a same external input to me now will result in some feeling. And the same external inputs at some point later will result in a different feeling. The input is constant but feeling is different. That means the I has changed. Please illuminate me on this.
So the thing is you are sort of assuming that there is a constant Atman. Now... We are not actually assuming it.
It's an intuitive feeling of I was the one in that baby's body. I was the one in this child's body. I was the one in the young person's body. I am the same one in this middle-aged person's body.
The body has changed so much. But I have this intuitive feeling of being constant in all of them. So that's from that intuitive feeling of constancy, we are saying Atman is constant. But really, ultimately speaking, Atman is not even constant.
It's beyond the idea of change and changelessness. However, there is an entire philosophy. You will be very happy to know what you are saying.
There will be the entire group of one school of Buddhism. It is called Yogachara, Vijnanavada Yogachara. Vijnanavada Buddhists, Vasubandhu and others, many great philosophers and Buddhist monks were there.
It is now part of Tibetan Buddhism. There are two schools of Buddhism which together form the philosophical basis of Tibetan Buddhism which is the Madhyamaka Shunyavada, one school and the Yogachara Vijnanavada second school. The Yogachara they say what you are saying that the self is dynamic they say that we are buddhist we don't say atma is not there but atma is shanika moment to moment it arises and disappears like flashes of light Why should we not accept that idea?
Because he seems to be, actually that's what's happening. It's like a series of flashes. Now, Advaita has many arguments and objections against that. If you look up Shankaras and post-Shankara Advaitins, they argue against these Krishnakavadi Buddhists. One argument I'll give you, think about it.
So you are saying that the Atman is discrete flashes of consciousness. In that case, if they are discrete, one flash ends, another flash starts. Between them, there must be blank.
At least, tiniest blank. But then, how is that tiny blank experienced? If you say, the tiny blank is experienced, then it must be experienced by some consciousness. If you say, no, no, there is a blank, but it is not experienced.
If it is not experienced, then the consciousness, that flashes will be continuous then. There is no way out of this argument. Just like blinking, we don't observe that we blink. We don't observe that we blink, if you blink, it's still there, but when you observe it, you will notice there is a gap between blinking and you are the observer. The non-blinking you is the observer of the blinking eye.
Right. So there are such arguments. Not that they give up so easily.
Long. The debate went on for nearly 1,000 years. Okay.
Thank you. Somebody from this side? Pranaam Maharaj, I am Gayatri. Where are you?
Here, ADK. Yes. Okay.
So my question is not so intellectual. It might sound a little silly but I really need an answer. I am initiated by Ranganathananda Maharaj and practicing a lot of chanting and reading.
reading. Just finished Swami Venkatar Eshwarananda's Yoga Vishishta. But my question is this. My husband and my in-laws, my own children and my colleagues say I've become morose. So I'm not enjoying the things I used to enjoy before.
Is it because of this Vedantic reading? and what should I do? So I'm not going to parties and I'm not such a party life which I used to be before.
So something, kichu bhool hoi che. No, no. I'll tell you. There's nothing wrong.
See, you don't seem to be unhappy to me. You seem quite happy. Yeah, because I'm here.
Yes. But if I had to accompany my husband to a party, I would not be. Exactly. Exactly. And you can come also, sir.
Have a seat. Exactly the same question was asked this morning. Swami Ashokanandaji in San Francisco in the 1960s, he was the head of the Vedanta Society of Northern California and he remembered the answer. One lady, American lady, she says, let my children say that mum is no fun anymore.
He started learning this Vedanta and mum is no fun anymore. Swami Ashokanandaji's reply was, good riddance to bad rubbish. there is a time when one must become mature to a certain extent when you are in the family you are in a job you must participate in what's going on to a certain extent you may not enjoy it all that much but you must draw a line there also beyond what you do not enjoy what you honestly do not like inside you have a right to say no everybody has a right to say no and you have something that you enjoy and you find it fulfilling You must give time and effort to that.
Your study, your japa, your meditation. So the other stuff which you are no longer enjoying, it's something that you have matured out of. It's high time that you mature out of it. I remember, I go for classes to Princeton near New York.
And there are some Indian families who organize Gita classes. And one of them told me that, you know, there are many other people here and they could come. But every weekend, there is a party, there is a marriage, there is this, this or that. They can find time for everything. Once in a month, they can't find time for one hour of Bhagavad Gita classes.
See. If you are, I tell them, if you are new here, you are young and you have come to New York, Manhattan, enjoying the life here, working hard five days a week, partying hard two days in the weekend. Alright, you can do it for three months, six months, one year, five years.
Peace. But after 50 years, children are grown up and gone and married, you have grandchildren, still that thing. There is something wrong.
Something wrong. No, you are not doing anything wrong. But don't be pushy on others. I've seen especially moms. So the moment they become interested in Vedanta, first and foremost it has to be imposed on the kids and the poor husband also.
So don't do that. That creates resistance. Alright, thank you.
Swami Namaste! I am Abhilash here. Swami, one quick question that I had. What we did just now, you know the meditation retreat. Can I say that this entire Advaitic meditation is to tune the mind to observe the movements of the mind?
No. It's not a meditation. It's an enquiry.
There is a difference between meditation and enquiry. Meditation is for calming down the mind. Enquiry is not for calming down the mind.
Enquiry is for looking for something, enquiring, using reason and experience and noting something. What you are talking about, observing the movements of the mind, witness of the movements of the mind. When we hear the word Sakshi, witness, that's what we immediately think. Oh, it is some kind of meditation technique, I'll sit quietly and I will look into the movements of the mind.
Like they give the example of standing on a bridge and watching the water in the river flow by. Instead of flowing by yourself, you watch the water in the river flow by. The river is of course the mind, water flowing by, thoughts, feelings. emotions.
You are the witness of the mind. That is exactly not what was taught here. One monk put it nicely after teaching all these things in Dhrig Drishya Viveka. He said, Kya mahatma ji, lag raha hai na ki aap saakshi ho? And the monks must have nodded.
I have read it only. Monks must have nodded yes. And he says, bahut bade gadhe mein giroge.
You will fall into a very big pit. Because this saakshi, it's something that you have generated. It's a kind of meditation you are doing. It's a good meditation, but it's an exercise.
When you stop doing it, it will be gone. Shankaracharya says, You can do it. You can not do it. You can do it in a different way. That is not knowledge.
That's a mental exercise. But what we are looking for here is a knowledge. Just as you know that you are Abhilash.
And that is not an exercise. That's knowledge. Similarly, we are looking for our real nature.
Which when you do it, it becomes... You see, the Sakshi which we are looking for is a choiceless Sakshi. is an effortless Sakshi.
It's always there right now. If you don't come to one Vedanta class also, you are still that Sakshi. Isn't it true?
What we were talking of now, this light that I am into, which the mind appears, senses appear, body appears. It's there in everybody. It's there in the ant.
It's there in the enlightened person. It's there in the most materialistic person. That's what enables life itself.
That's consciousness. We're talking about consciousness. It's an effortless awareness. And the practice was just to note that, that I am that.
So it's not a meditation in that sense. Is this the first stage of Dhrigdhrishya Viveka exercise? Excellent.
Exactly. Exactly. The first stage of the Dhrigdhrishya Viveka.
In the interest of time, this would be the last question. Yes, Guruji. Yes. Here.
Okay, one question and then we'll go to the children. My, my... Okay, we'll take a question and then we'll come to you.
Who was going to ask? Yeah, here. Yes. Swamiji here.
Namaste. Swamiji, myself Aditya and you said initially the fourth point that ultimately we should leave everything to the God, okay? But what I think is that what people do generally is that when they leave everything to God what they blame them that I was not able to do this because of them only they don't take responsibility on their own so is this better to think that I am the responsible whatever is happening in my life and then I can improve it in a better way than blaming someone else so them you mean God yeah some entity all right this is the first time I used the the they them preferred pronoun for God. Yeah, you are right. If the tendency is to blame God, then the person is really not surrendered to God.
It is, if I surrender to God, I won't blame God. I will try, rather my effort will be to see and recognize and Accept everything as the will of God. That's a big effort, big struggle.
That does not end in, result in ending up blaming God. However, what you said, set all these big talk aside. Can I take personal responsibility and work towards bettering? my life.
One must. That's the first condition. Bhagavad Gita.
All these Vedas, Vedanta, Yoga, Bhakti, Meditation, all of that starts with one condition. Krishna first scolds Arjuna. Klaivyam asma gamav partha.
Don't be paralyzed into inactivity over Arjuna. Rise up and fight. What he means is, you must be up and doing even to benefit from Vedanta, Yoga, Madhvaita, Bhakti, positive psychology Therapy, whatever it is First, the person must be Willing to take responsibility and change I, my life is not good.
I want to make it better. I am going to try. All of this comes on the side of trying. So, that first is your own responsibility.
I will give you a very, you know, Dehati example. Dehati means like a rural example. This I heard from a monk.
He said that we come, that Sadhu in Uttarakhand, but he comes from some family in a village. He says, we have seen farmers. He says, Gayaka Bachra, you know, calf. Such a nice example. He said, the farmers know, when the calf is ill, they will poke, Twist the tail of the calf.
The calf which struggles to stand up, they will help it to stand up. Because they know that one will survive. The one which does not struggle to stand up, they know it is going to die.
So, struggling to stand up, that much we must do. God will do the rest. Yes.
Last question. Disturbing events in terms of patient sufferings and critical treatments. And how do I actually come out of it during the course of treatments and actually complete the course peacefully?
Yes. Very good question. I'll just tell you an example. Please sit. What's your name?
Nikita. Alright, sit. I can only tell you the example of a doctor. She is working in Manhattan, an Indian doctor, for many, many years. And she works in what is called an ER doctor, emergency response in an emergency room.
So always, it's life and death. It's always distant. disturbing things. It's always a struggle, especially during the COVID.
And she told me the one thing which enabled me to survive this, this terrible period during the COVID. You know, in New York, the maximum number of deaths in the world was there in the first wave of COVID. I was there at that time. Every day, more than 1000 people were dying per day, per day.
Now this doctor told me, I survived this crisis. Because of my spiritual practice, I am initiated, I do japa, my guru has given me a mantra. I had to depend entirely on that to keep my sanity, keep my balance during this crisis period. And she said, others also, I found doctors and nurses in the hospitals. If they had some spiritual practice, doesn't have to be Vedanta, many of them are Christians.
Some serious prayer, belief, faith, that really, really helped them. One more thing I can add. Just recently, two weeks ago, I was invited by the American Psychiatric Association. They said we want a conference with faith leaders. And they said this country is heading towards a mental health crisis.
And also, not only America, it's also there in India now. And they said that we want partnership with psychiatry and spirituality. Then our question was not mine, but generally was that you generally don't like spirituality, religion and all of that.
So are you supporting spirituality and religion? He said no, it's not that we have become religious or spiritual But you cannot argue with the data The data shows, all surveys show that those who have genuine spirituality in their lives They are much more resilient to mental illness that they don't have mental illness or if they do have it they are able to overcome it or deal with it much better. So, what you say, you will have to face very difficult circumstances at this young age, more difficult than most of us, because you will be seeing a lot of human suffering.
And in your career, this will go on. This is your job now. It's a great place to help people.
Great place to immediately help people in their pain. Right now you can help. But you also have to protect yourself, your mind. And that you need devotion, japa.
the idea of nishkama karma, the seva, which you can easily do as a doctor, and this thing, as this luminosity, which illumines these experiences, both pleasant, unpleasant, including the, the dreadful experiences also. So I wish you all the best. Thank you. Thank you.
We are going to do some, So basically, but I have many Duryodhanas who are reflective to my treatment or my views and how do I deal with them? Do they still have hope for them? Yes. Two things. In every such case, either they are willing to at least partially cooperate with you.
That's one. Then you can do something. Or they are not willing to cooperate with you. You can only keep trying. until the suffering of their condition makes them cooperate with you.
This you know better than me. There are people who refuse to accept help, especially in mental health cases, until the suffering becomes so much that unfortunately they are forced to accept help, either themselves or by others. What else can we do?
Same that Bachara example. Reflecting to our treatment and our use, so that's where they seek intervention. Yes.
That's like contradictory to how we are supposed to help them during their response time. I know, but we... You see, it's a very difficult thing.
I talked with some of the most senior psychiatrists this time when I went to Washington, D.C. And it's a very difficult profession. I mean, they were saying because they deal with this. They were saying we have to deal with at least 50. 15 patients per day, every day.
That's the minimum. And in India, it's much more probably. And physical illness, you can handle, as she was saying. But mental illness, it has a direct effect on our mind also when you deal with such people again and again and again. You have to protect yourself and try your best.
I don't know what more I can say. Thank you. We don't have time, actually.
The last one. Yes, we'll end with this. Yes. My question is that after the two years of COVID house arrest, a lot of teens are facing mental ill health like excessive self-criticism, social anxiety, anorexia, eating disorder, body issues, etc.
Now, these young teens are the upcoming youth of India. So, since Swami Vivekananda was always inspiring and motivating the youth of India, so I would like to... I want to ask you, how do you awaken awareness among them to identify themselves not as the body, not as the mind, but the consciousness?
Being an adult of 42, I can hardly pass a day living with my consciousness, identify myself as the consciousness. Then how do I inspire or how can we make the teams embrace Vedanta to identify themselves not as the body, not as the mind? If you want to start, that's a good question.
question but you can't start there. What you should start with is reading Vivekananda and joining groups. We have the Vivekananda study circle here, other groups around and if you are in Bangalore, I don't know. The Bangalore Mutt is there. Be associated, satsanga.
Be associated with the wise and the holy. Be associated with like-minded persons who are seeking this. We all need help. So take the help wherever it is available, whether it is on YouTube, whether it is in a book, whether it is in the company of other seekers. So create this environment around yourself.
Thank you so much. Thank you, Maharaj. Thank you.