Transcript for:
Iman Ghazi's Insights on Info Products

So we got Iman Ghazi coming over today. He's gonna rip into the info product industry and tell you guys everything you're doing wrong. I think he's at the door.

Let's go get him. What's up, brother? How you doing?

Hey, man. Good to see you. How's it going? I feel like I have to bun you.

Oh my gosh. Dude, that, listen, there's some crazy white people shit, but that was some crazy Russian white people shit. You held up woke. When I was at your house and you were ripping into the info product industry, I don't see that on your channel a lot.

You're very, like, reserved. but you were just like and i'm like dude we got we got to talk about this so we covered a lot of topics the other day it's a shame it wasn't a call on camera so no we should have caught it on camera i guess we could i was watching my ex because you're like why would you do this it was great man i want to cover it all done yes that's sweet mr iman gadzi how are you doing sir i'm doing great so you ripped into the info product industry the other day when we were at the Russian banya and I was hanging out at your house and you just went off and I've never seen you share What you shared with me and I thought it would be fantastic to sit down and have you just go through it How much have you done in info products close to 100 million? That's crazy and very you're the only Facebook ad Money you've really spent is retargeting right? Yeah about two and a half three million So most of it's been youtube. We've done about 95 million Plus it's over 100. I guess it just depends like our last two launches.

We sold software, but the info came with it. So that's right. Yeah, yeah. But close to 100. What do you think the biggest difference between what most people are doing in info, even the ones that are making money and guys like you who are just crushing it with actual profit? What do you think the biggest difference is?

Well, I think that's the first thing most people focus on revenue, which I just think is the most preposterous, ridiculous thing. Like. I think you and I were both in the same mastermind about seven years ago and it's the 2018 like after one year or half a year in the online marketing space that's all I needed to know that I want to stay as far away from all of these dumb as possible because I'm like it's this weird cult where like everyone's talking about their revenue numbers like they're all talking about their revenue numbers and then I'm just sat there and I'm like yeah but what's your profit and it's like they'd like it's not a concept to them Like they're just like, oh yeah, but I spent two million in ads and I brought back two and a half million. It's like revenue, by the way, not even cash collected. And I'm like, why?

Like I would get it if it was a software company or an e-commerce business where revenue is actually important or it can be the lifeblood of the business or it's a KPI to think about and consider. And my software companies, we factor in revenue. And my e-commerce businesses, we factor in revenue. But in info, it's like more customers does not make your product better. It doesn't make the company more valuable because you're not going to sell the company, which I think a lot of people have this false pretense or assumption that like, oh yeah, I'll sell the company.

It's like, okay, well, if you are the service delivery and you are the mechanism to get customers, how the f*** are you going to sell the company? So I just remember, you know, even seven years ago, looking at all these people and I'm like, you guys are focused on revenue. You're getting customers from paid traffic, which are not quality customers in comparison to organic customers.

They're customers that are going to have a higher refund rate, a higher dispute rate. They're not going to be as accommodating because I'll be honest, my customers are very accommodating. If something, if there's an issue or something breaks or we're late to ship, for example, a feature in the software, they're very patient, right?

Because they know, like, and trust you. Whereas you try that with cold traffic, they're like, f*** you. So for example, we've had a custom platform for the past four to five years. There's been down periods of an hour, two hours. If that's...

pay traffic customers, instant alarm bells, scam, blah, blah, this, that. If you have organic customers, they're very, they're very understanding. So I just think all in all, both in terms of like your happiness level in the info space, in terms of profitability, in terms of everything, I just looked at what everyone was doing seven years ago. And I was like, okay, you guys, I mean, for me, like the nail in the coffin was when I found out that pretty much the top person in the space did 36 million in revenue and 1 million in profit.

And I was like, why? Why do you have your offices and your employees and all the shit for a million in profit? And I've always said I would much rather, there's a lot of info guys, online marketing guys who are making 15 million in revenue and they're actually like genuine, actual profit, three million a year. And for me, I would rather make three million a year in info And keep two million in profit. Like, I would rather make technically 50% less money.

I'd rather make two million rather than three million, but with higher margins and less headache and less complexity. And I think that's the other thing as well, is people look at info and they think they're going to scale to this billion dollar company. It's like, I just think everyone needs to be very aware of, you have to be self-aware of what business you're in and what are the pros and the cons, because every business has pros and cons.

You know, like I can tell you right now, because I have software businesses, because I have, you know, physical product business, I can tell you all my e-commerce friends who make 30 million a year, they're like, oh man, or 35 million a year in revenue. But they can sell the company. Listen, the selling, everyone has this idea in their mind. For me, it's just, I have this unique perspective where I have... multiple software businesses, I have multiple physical product brands, I have info businesses, so I can just see the pros and the cons and I'm like no business is better or worse there's just pros and cons for different stages of stages of your career.

Info like if you want to print a few million a year five millionaire it is the best business on earth nothing comes close to it right and all the ecom guys are jealous of the info guys for the profitability then the issue is the info people think oh but I'll sell my company which is what the e-commerce people actually have in the software people have so it's But it's just like each model comes with its pros and cons, but you need to look at a model in the correct way. And the issue is a lot of the info people, they'll take the principles of multi-billion dollar companies and apply it. I hear stupid ...

For me, there's a few red flags where I know someone doesn't know f*** about info. Number one, when they tell me their revenue. The first thing I say is, what's your profit? Why are you telling me your ...

I don't care. Why does that matter? Why is it? Listen, of course, it's one of maybe 10 KPIs you should just, obviously you should know. But in terms of like a barometer for success, why does it matter?

Well, it's their ego. They want it. They want, oh, I did 800 grand. I did a million. I did 1.5 million.

And if they collected two or three, then, I mean, listen, I agree with you because I have people who I know when they say they do 500 grand, they collected like, some of them collected like 70 or 80, you know? It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

I mean, honestly, that's why I do a lot of live presentations, because I can collect actual amounts. You know, like we did 800 last month. I collected 490-something, which I think is pretty good out of 800. And our ticket sales paid for our marketing.

So I always try to say, let me pay for everything, my staff, as much as I can, and then over here do something to make a bunch of money. But what I love about what you're doing is, from the very beginning, you're profitable. because you're not paying Zuckerberg gobs of money to get the customers in the first place and they're better customers. They're much better customers.

And listen, I'm not opposed to advertising. For example, when we do events, we spend three, 400 grand on retargeting, but once it's retargeting, it's like they're, it's buttery. Yeah, it's like free leads.

We get leads, paid leads. And by the way, we do a lead scoring because when someone signs up to one of our events, we have a lead scoring system based on. the responses they give basically based on the type form where we get to know a little bit more about them so we're getting a two dollar on average about two dollar fifty leads for our events uh we get about 350 to 500 000 leads per event now our cost per qualified a a is like they're gonna buy is eleven dollars uh that's not bad it's amazing eleven dollars for a quality because we have a b c and d tier d is not gonna buy These are leads that signed up to, because you do those free events where you do the YouTube series.

You publish them and then you take them down. And when they sign up for that, they fill out a bunch of stuff and... boom like that's yeah wow that's a great yeah that's a great model so you were talking to me about something at i can't remember if your house were at the banya but face fatigue and i thought this was a really amazing concept as to why info people and i've experienced it as well you come out you're new you're fresh you're the new kid on the block everybody gives you money and then all of a sudden it kind of declines and tapers off and it will stay tapered off unless you do something big or you reinvent yourself or you come up with a new offer and now it spikes again. But then you're on this like hamster wheel of continuous reinvention of yourself rather than just being able to scale and chill. And you call that face fatigue.

Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, so what's interesting that people don't realize about info is usually like your first, basically your first three years are super easy. Everything's a breeze, everything's light work. And then it just gets, every year gets harder and harder.

And that's why I've never, like 2024, we had our sixth year consecutively. Well, it... with higher profits.

It was our sixth year of growth in profits. I don't know anyone that's done that info. But the things we have to do to get to that point, like we have to always be constantly ahead of the market.

Like for example, we launched a low ticket $37 a month offer, a mobile app. I don't recommend anyone do that, by the way. It's the stupidest model. Like, oh my God, don't get me started on that bullshit.

Like as someone who's actually like made at this point, almost eight figures in profit from low ticket recurring. which no one else can say they have profit, actual profit, especially the people who are trying to tell you to do this stuff. That's not how they made their money. They've never even done it.

So as someone who's done it, I can tell you don't fucking recommend it at all. But that's an example where we had to launch that offer because because we were going more mass market. What's the reason you wouldn't recommend it?

Because like my background, my companies are mainly software businesses. I don't think in terms of MR, when someone tells me their MR, I don't give a shit. It's another one of those like KPIs that for me is not important. All I look at is LTV and customers.

So I look at your LTV and how many customers you would need to get. And then I reverse engineer from there. Like I'll give you an example.

So people say all the time, oh, I'll get a hundred people paying me. I'm sorry, I'll get a thousand people paying me a hundred dollars a month for my info community, whatever. And it's like, okay. Because in their mind, they're like, okay, 100 people, sorry, 1,000 people paying me $100 a month.

I'm making 100 grand a month. It's like, well, no, because you're not factoring in churn. So on $100 a month info offer, the issue is info and recurring don't go hand in hand.

Because imagine you bought a book today, and in four months, they're still charging you for it. You're like, what the fuck? That's such a good analogy. People don't think.

Oh, yeah, people don't use their brains Wow listen I told you I was sat down with someone I think I told you I was sat down with my friend who does 1.4 billion with a B a year in education 1.4 billion a year 250 million in EBITDA his a holding company, physical locations though. They have colleges. So they do lending and they have physical locations. So he obviously saw what's happening in e-learning and he's like, okay, cool.

I'm gonna buy an e-learning business. And when he said, okay, so we bought this e-learning. business.

I said, let me guess. I'll tell you your numbers. You had four month average retention.

He goes four and a half. I said, your day one cash collected is this because obviously they have yearly and monthly planning. I said, the yearly plan option is less than 10%. He said, yeah. Listed off all these KPIs.

And I said, oh, by the way, you're not profitable. He said, how do you know all this stuff? I said, bro, I'm honestly like, not to toot my own horn, but when it comes to info, I'm the number one expert in the world. Because no one has done a low ticket, mid ticket, high ticket, eight figures in profit, just in full transparency, we haven't hit eight figures in profit from low ticket. yet but we only launched a year ago we're very close oh well I see the pitfalls for all these things and I just see so many people basically sense of slaughterhouse because going back to example people buy info because they want a result And they want that, the highest impact you have is in that first month.

That's why, you know, like it's so easy to sell someone in the first month. To get them to keep paying or continuity in info is f***ing impossible. It's so difficult. That's why it's gotta be like software, like meal delivery services, like things like this where you're consistently consumable.

Exactly. It's like supplies. Exactly.

So to your point, because I wanna make sure that people understand. that this is what you just said is true. I launched a $97 a month membership site and we started doing like 130 grand a month right out of the gate, right? It took this much effort. It took this much effort to keep it.

And then I was like, what am I doing? And so I redirected my effort into working with premium clients at way higher price points. Last month, we did $800,000 with this much effort versus this much effort. I had somebody comment on one of my YouTube videos. They're like, Dan, you had like 1,200 members in your group and now you have like 600. Like, what happened?

I'm like, I'll tell you what happened. I decided to go make money. That's what happened. I just stopped focusing on it so much and focused on the things that make money. I mean, if you charge somebody $25,000 for a premium service and you divide that by 97, I don't know how many months that is, but it's a lot.

And you would have to convince that person to stick around for all those months versus just convince them to work with you from the premium from the beginning. So I completely agree. Quite simply. So people hear, okay, I'm… whatever 97 a month or 100 100 a month right a thousand people so in their mind they're okay i'm making 120 grand a year 100 sorry 100 grand a month i'm making 1.2 million a year no you're not sure so you're ltv so for example in that example and bear in mind that individual uh without getting into specifics of it his e-learning business is like career professionals Like very serious people. So he has a four and a half average retention.

We have six months average retention. Our LTV is $222 on our $37 product, which is super high, by the way. But bear in mind, we release a new program in there every month. It's like masterclass.

This month we launched one with a guy called Tony Jefferies, who's the number one boxing expert in the world. Like he has a channel with 2 million subscribers. So like, and this is all filmed on Red Rafters.

So like the hoops you have to jump. Now, would I go back and do it again? Yeah, I probably still would have, because for me, a lot of times I do things and I tell people don't do what I do.

And I think that's actually the sign of someone who's. Someone you should listen to because I'm like my strategy is very different to your strategy I don't want to create copycats. I've seen what that looks like in the info space where someone is like I'm doing this So you should do this. I'll go no I'm doing this because it's my strategy if that aligns with your strategy go for it But I just want to be honest with the the pros and cons of everything So going back to numbers, your average retention, let's even say it's four months. So your LTV is $400.

So they stay four months on average. Some people are going to stay one month. Some people are going to stay eight months.

But on a $100 a month info offer, $400 LTV, let's say you get 1,000 customers in the year, 1,000 times 400, you made $400,000. You didn't make $1.2 million. Now it's $400,000.

Bad money? No, it's okay. Decent money, but then you think about how do you get a thousand customers.

Okay, so to get a thousand customers, you're going to have to have, let's assume a 1% conversion rate on the sales page. You're going to need to have 100,000 unique people clicking on your sales page. That's not easy, right?

So either you have to build a big organic audience, in which case, if you build of a million... Followers or subscribers or whatever to have a hundred unique thousand people click on your sales page or you run ads I mean, you know what ad costs are like to get a hundred thousand unique like actual buyers. I'm not talking about running some Campaigns and non-buyer countries. I mean like actual real people who would pay for that stuff to get a hundred thousand unique clicks you're gonna spend way more than four hundred four hundred thousand yeah right so so so the math ain't math and basically and to make four hundred thousand with your info mr or whatever bullshit thing thing it bro it's just for me i like it's just annoying thing is like the people who tell you to do it have never done that actually you should really express your feelings more you know i mean i know you're bottling it up inside i just don't like seeing people misled i get you bro there's so much bullshit in all of this space because i hear this all the time people are like oh but um uh i should do what you do you're telling me to do one thing and i'm like you You f***ing idiot.

That's like me going to my multi-billion dollar friends, and my multi-billion dollar friends are like, yeah, yeah, all you do is you take a $200 million loan from the bank, and then you buy companies, you become a corporate raider, you come in, you clean up the inefficiencies, and then you sell it for $400. I'm like, I do pretty well. I don't have $200 million.

laying around or the sort of relationships with banks where they're just giving me 200 million dollars so it's like but i could i should i could say the same thing i'd be like oh i should do what you do you know like i had a meeting the other day with one of the biggest property developers in the world we're talking they moved 10 tens of billions millions of dollars, right? Very close to home here actually. I could say, okay, well I should get into a property game.

It's like, well no, maybe you should take the steps that we took to get to that point. So that's why I just like, in this whole like info, online marketing this that space i just i get very frustrated by misinformation i get very frustrated because i see things said for example like this whole idea of like revenue or another one reinvest in the business because people say oh yeah i need to keep money in my info business to reinvest in business i'm like what the fk are you reinvesting in what the fk What the f*** does that mean? I agree with you. I'm like, what are you talking about?

There's like no startup cost with info. And I've had people like, I need to get capital. I need to, you know, it's like, bro, throw up a landing page. You can go into the ads dashboard if you were going to do ads or a YouTube channel.

Dude, look at that. Who's that big muscular guy? Sam Sulek.

Sam Sulek. He's just like grabbing his camera, like talking. at the gym, you know, and he blows up. I mean, what capital do you need to create this, you know? No, and also the other thing is they're acting as if, yeah, they're like reinvesting in business.

I'm like, you do realize when you reinvest in business, it's not like other businesses. where there's a potentially one year, two year, three year long tail to see that return. Like if you buy more glasses, you have stock.

I have many times in my life, I've sent a wire for more than a million dollars for stock. And that turnover in revenue doesn't come instantly. That is an example where, yeah, you actually have to reinvest in the business. But it's like, okay, you're not going to invest in an ad right now and see that return in six months.

Like realistically as an online marketer, even if you are running ads, you're going to see that return within 30 days. So like when people tell me, oh, I need money to like reinvest in this, I'm like, what? And they can never give me a solid answer.

But it's things, the issue is people in info, they don't realize that this is a three out of 10 difficulty business. What I realized from day one, I knew that this is an easy business. That's just the truth of it.

But I don't need to sit here and think, what I did was, this is how you win the info game. You get to $10 million liquid. After you get to $10 million liquid, which I was very fortunate to do quite a few years back, then you decide, basically do I wanna kick my feet up, off and chill? Which by the way, if you wanna do that, great.

Kumbaya, enjoy. You won. You won the game. Yeah.

So either you do that or you realize, then I can go for my bigger place, which is what I did with software and my physical product businesses. And also now I've been investing in a shit ton of software businesses and rolling them into a portfolio. I should have done that because I invested my stuff in real estate. And it's worked.

Like I would buy a place for... for two million, hold it for two years, sell it for three million. It worked, I made money. But what's wrong with that?

Well, I mean, I don't know. Imagine if I would've invested in some sort of manufacturing thing that would've 20x'd. Yeah, but that's also easier said than done. For example, all my businesses, I have a technical co-founder or a technical partner. So I would never start a business solo, if that makes sense.

Like I don't, you need an operator. Inferno. No, info I would.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just talking about these other businesses because they are very tricky. Like, for example, in my eyewear, my business partner has sold a billion dollars in eyewear.

He started a company called Hawkers that has 100 physical stores. He sold it seven years ago, scaled it from zero to 100 million in three years. So it's like when your business part, and he bought 40% of the company.

So you bring in the marketing, you're bringing the brand. Exactly. Yeah.

That, and we just spent a long time trying to find our new CEO operator. Cause he's not an operator. I'm not an operator. Obviously he has more experience in eyewear than about anyone else.

I could be lucky enough. enough to have buy half the company. So, but once again, we're both not operators.

So we just hired a new operator from Munich and she moved to our Madrid offices. So the reason I say is it's like, I also don't want people to think, cause sometimes I hear people and they're like, yeah, I'll just start a software company and sell it for a billion. It's like, yeah, I wish life was that easy. Like I'm in software, it's . Yeah, I've owned three software companies and it's one of, I had one, it was an app.

And do you remember when that Amazon server crash happened? So it fried my app and I'd already dumped 200 grand into building it and I had barely made it back. And then I basically had to spend another 100 grand to fix everything because I was like, no. I was like, I'll just go sell $50,000 consulting.

I'll be fine. I was done. Or if you're going to do software, like one of the latest software companies.

I just invested in it's like our packages started three by two hundred hours I'm sorry 200 euros and they go up to like three four five six seven eight ten grand a month ah yeah so I'm a big fan of b2b software okay oh stuff they're like when you install in a business they're gonna have a really tough time getting it getting out of it but b2c so like for the one of my software companies flozy Bro, it's tough. The churn and burn is tough. Same thing with Shopify. Shopify, ClickFunnels, any sort of B2C software, Shopify, ClickFunnels. You consider ClickFunnels B2C?

100%. Yeah, because everybody's a coach five minutes. No, it's B2C because they're pulling in new people into market. Same thing like Shopify.

I consider Shopify primarily B2C. I get it. Like, for example, we use Shopify. There's many B2B and there's many heavy hitters on ClickFunnels.

What do you consider B2B software then? Like, what's a good example? For me, it's something that really only an established business would use. Okay.

Like inventory management. Like, for example, the new software company I invest in, it's inventory management for e-commerce businesses. Got it.

Like, unless you've got... At least minimum 30 SKUs in the businesses, 50 SKUs, 100 SKUs, product SKUs. And unless you're doing like at least 5 million a year, it doesn't really make sense to be using the software.

But do you use the same tactics like, you know, traffic to VSL, book a call, sell them on the software? Is it the same model? Yeah, that works, 100%. Okay, yeah. But it needs to be B2B software for there to be margin for that to work.

For there to be margin, yeah. The issue is... Info people will apply these billion dollar concepts to info like one thing that always f***s my head and people say like yeah You know don't sell your time for money I'm just like I'm just like okay. Well Taylor Swift sold her time for money on her last tour and she made a billion dollars So should you tell Taylor Swift not to sell her time for money? Your favorite NFL player your favorite Formula One driver sells his time for money and they make 20 to 50 million a year.

That's a good point. Like, there's nothing wrong with selling your time for money. It's just as long as your time is valuable enough to be worth it.

And also the other thing that I don't think info people really understand is people buy for you. Like they're by like imagine once again if Taylor Swift was like I want to remove myself from the business It's like well, no, they're there because they want you. Yeah, it's all game. That's the reason why they're there So I just think sometimes like info people just want to be so far removed like I was speaking to this one guy and he wanted to make an extra 150k a month with this offer. I said, how much the offer?

He said, 15 grand, you know, but I just want to make sure from day one, I'm fully removed from the system, blah, blah, this, that. And I was like, how much are you making at the moment? He's like a hundred.

I said, so let me get this straight. You want a 2.5 X your income and you want to remove yourself from business. I said, why don't you give every single person a one-on-one who pays 15 grand? And he's like, yeah, but then I'm not removed from the business.

I'm like, bro. your offer is 15 grand. You're going to do 10 hours of one-on-one.

You're going to do two and a half hours a week. of one-on-one to 2.5x your income. Do you realize how much of a f***ing brat you sound? Like, by the way, there's no right or wrong. Like, if you want to stay at 100k a month, once again, there's no right or wrong.

Like, if you want that, and for, like, everyone, it's your business. That's, at the end of the day, everyone is allowed non-negotiables, right? I think every business should have non-negotiables. Hey, these things I'm not willing to. For example, with you, it's sales teams, right?

I won't do it. By the way, I think that's beautiful because you're You set the conditions for your business. And yeah, could you maybe make some more money if you had sales teams? Yeah, probably.

I could squeeze a little bit more out. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. And that's the other thing with info.

I just think like some people try to push it to like full velocity and full throttle for an extra like half a million or a million in profit. And I'm just like, okay, what if you spent that time, keep the info business smaller and then focus on your bigger plate? Because none of you are gonna sell this thing for a billion anyways. Like, and by the way, I can give multiple examples. A lot of these, the top info companies, I own their domains now.

I don't know if you want to share that or not, but I thought that was hilarious. A lot of these people who made 25, 30 million a year, a few years ago, I own their domains. I know you don't want to probably share the name of the domains, which is fine.

But you went out, you bought the domains. Did you do that for a reason or just to be a dick? No, just to prove a point. Which is like you guys were so stupid. You guys were so stupid to think, oh, I'm going to sell this company.

It's a built cell. asset. And it's like, and then, and then when you guys all bankrupt, I just bought your domains. I respect that. It's hilarious.

I think it's just like, I don't want people to think I'm spiteful or maybe I'm a little spiteful. No, you're calling it like it is. Dude, I'm even, I made millions of dollars from the info game and I'm even sick of it.

I'm sick of the way things are presented. That's why I've stayed relatively small. I think it's just frustration because I saw this me and one other guy. that have killed the info game in the last, like, as in, when I say killed the info game, as in personally profited between 50 to 100, have cashed out between 50 to 100. And it's me and the guy were in the same mastermind seven years ago, the only mastermind I've ever been a part of. After that, I was like, I need to stay the away from this info space.

The online marketing, because these guys, like, they're deluded. It's like this weird cult. They can't see, like, they don't understand anything outside of info.

Me and this guy both went away and said, okay, you guys are spending all this money on ads. You're talking revenue figures. Why is your revenue f***ing relevant at all?

And the worst part is you guys are giving Facebook 10 million a year and you're getting nothing in return. I have my entire content team. For 250k a year, I'm building a brand.

A brand where when I go to companies now, by the way, every single company I invest in, I get discounted equity. I won't get into... I don't think I can disclose the specifics, but I have had...

I've received more than eight figures in advisory shares. As in, I've received... That's basically like being given $10 million.

Yeah. For free. Because of my brand. Because of your brand.

Simply because of my brand. Can I ask you about the content team? Sure.

You said something to me at your house. You said, uh... You can spend $20,000 a month on Facebook ads, and when you turn them off, you get nothing.

You can spend $20,000 a month on a content team, you'll have the best... content team in the world and that content will keep producing for you for years to come. Correct.

If you got 20 grand a month and you spend it on a content team, obviously you're not going to get results. That's max, by the way. Max.

Max. These are like video editors. Correct. Listen, for five grand a month, you're done. Really?

You got everything you need. Yeah, because I know my video editors are like a thousand bucks a month. But what about scripting? Your content team, to me, is in scripting.

To be someone who understands scripting, for example, scripting your head of support or your customer success manager. That's something that they can get involved in. Or if you have a copywriter. But basically, I don't recommend that someone scripts things for you.

Or gives you ideas, does research, anything like that? No. No, I mean, listen, I say that, then again, every single one of my events where we've printed tens of millions of dollars, I sit down, I read off a teleprompter and I go home. It takes me about three hours and that's it.

The team's, my CMO script every single one of those. Now that's one specific example where it's very like, just want it done in a specific way, right? Because- But you're talking about the editing, the posting.

Yeah, I mean more on the content side of things. The production. Yeah, the production. And also, the other thing is the way the market is, people don't want overly developed.

You know, it's easier now. People just want... Listen, on the way back from here, I'm going to be recording something for my business channel on my phone.

I did it three days ago. I just came back from a meeting. Do you think it matters that...

Like, what car did you come here in? Maybach. Maybach. Do you think it matters it's in a Maybach? No, not particularly.

No. No. No, listen, I don't think it's ideal if it's like a terrible car.

Yeah, like if you're in like a yellow taxi or something. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, it should still be relatively presentable. Because I think people will say that.

They'll say, well, yeah, you're on your phone, but you're in a Rolls Royce or a Maybach. But listen. But then again, Hormozy was in a closet and he did it.

The thing is, that's still status signaling. It's just reverse status signaling. Because would you listen to him if he was like, it's like, I'm in a closet. But then he starts off by saying, I've made X amount of money. It's almost like a pattern, a visual pattern.

So it's like, listen, everyone's status signal, it just depends how, right? The thing is with me, I get this from people that are like, oh, you flex, blah, blah, this, that. And I'm just like, I don't think you guys understand. I made tens of millions of dollars before I bought a car because I was just living in London. I didn't care.

You know the first thing someone does when they make their first million? They go buy a Lamborghini to flex, blah, blah. Okay, if I'm so...

Give a shit so much about flexing doing also why did I buy supercars you think I didn't know that that could help myself For me it just felt inauthentic. You just waited until the abundance was so great that it was like whatever I Is that that rolls Royce dude? I felt like I was driving on a cloud i was like i need one of these i mean even compared to the maybach the rolls royce yeah the phantom is the phantom oh dude you're sitting there i you know you know you drive for if you have like a four hour drive you're kind of exhausted after the drive not in that thing I could be there for 12 hours and it would feel like I'm sitting on the couch here with you like that was amazing so I would get that too if I just had an extra 20 million laying around I might get one now I don't know you sold me on it with all this stuff I always say just because something's expensive doesn't mean it's worth it I always tell people just don't get a Maybach I don't think they're worth it I think you just get a top of the line S-Class 2,000-3,000 miles on it let someone else take the depreciation you For me, this was just a one-of-one spec, so I wanted that specific one. I just care about the seat, the seat and the phantom.

I don't care about nothing else, just the seat. So here's a natural objection I can hear to people saying the content team. Well, I'm not going to make sales right away.

I'm going to have to wait six months. You said something to me the other day. You said, no, if you know what you're doing, you can pop a brand new YouTube channel off in the first, what, six months?

60 days? Honestly, 30 to 90 days. Okay, so what would you tell someone who is like, all right, I'm going to start a brand new YouTube channel on a topic.

Obviously, I want to bring leads in from that topic, but it's brand new. I'm not going to email a list. I'm not going to get a bunch of people from Instagram to go watch it first, to spike it.

Just dead straight. But also, why not? If you have those assets, why not?

Yeah, no, and do you think you should do that if you have that asset? Yeah, but listen, realistically, everyone who's watching this, I'm not going to do that. has an email list of a few thousand people. Like if they're still at this part of the conversation, that means that clearly they have some interest in info.

Clearly. I'm not saying they have a million person email list. That's something. They have something.

They have 500 friends on Facebook. Right. So send them to the channel.

Yeah, send them to the channel. Just that boost. Just get some views so there's some retention data. So even with that though, what would be the secret to brand spanking new YouTube channel getting it to spike up from the beginning? Well, first things first, I don't think you should focus on spiking up.

Don't focus on virality. This is the other thing I see. I see a lot of people, and I get it. There's a lot of YouTube. Courses out there like how to grow on YouTube.

It's like yeah, but there's a big difference between a viewer and a lead Was it two very different things? Right and that's why even for example for me I make high-level business content on a separate channel that I've never Promoted to anyone I didn't send it I didn't put on my main channel because I don't want people to find out about it It's only about like 10,000. Do you think that people on your main channel really don't see that channel? No, I just don't want to bring their attention to it. Like I always, I start every single video, I say, if you're making less than 250,000, just click away a year.

Ah, I see. Because it's just not relevant. So even if they find it, it's like. Yeah, because the reason I'm saying that is I'm not worried about viewership.

I'm worried about lead quality. And I think that's what I'm trying to say. Like, don't focus on trying to go viral. You just want to build a micro niche personal brand. And the other thing is the traffic already exists.

You're just channeling traffic. It's not like you're creating traffic. People are already searching for key terms.

Like Google is a, sorry, YouTube is the second biggest search engine in the world. So people are already searching for things in your industry. You just gotta make content that'll be delivered to them. Right, so for example, like in my case, we had a VSL, almost 10 million views, and we shut down that. That offer, so I think it ended up at like 9.5 or 9.6 million.

Never managed to crack the 10 million view mark. But that VSL, obviously we know that people are searching on how to start an online business. So I'm not creating that traffic. It's already there.

Yeah. You're just putting yourself first. I'm just positioning myself there.

You don't want to be going how to start an online business. You want to go niche. The other thing that people need to... understand is I started off agency, SMA agency content.

And I did that until I was at the top of the hill. And then once I was at the top of the hill and I understood there's nowhere bigger I can go with this market. I can't take this market bigger. So I need to go one step outside of that. So I went, okay, realistically, the people that want to build an agency at this scale, the scale I was speaking at, do they care particularly, is it the agency they care about or is the fact that they want to have a lifestyle business?

Okay. They want to have a lifestyle business. So let's go one bracket. wider and just target people who want to start an online business. So then we went and we dominated the online business niche.

And then we started going to general self-help and this and that. And, and once again, those are tactical decisions because of my product suite, because I have multiple different businesses, physical product businesses, info businesses. So for me, it makes sense. But like, I tell people all the time, like, just don't do TikTok.

Like we get 300 million views on our own accounts. We know short form better than anyone else on earth. Anyone else on earth.

At some point I had 65 people full time. In my company, just on short form, full time. What were 65 people doing though? Posting about 15,000 pieces of content a month. Short form.

On our own accounts, we have like 150 accounts. Now it's, we've got the cost down to, it's not much in that department, it's only like, I think in that department there's only like... I think it's like 10 people now, actually. And they're just doing the same thing.

But we have three times the amount of views. We have 300 million views. Whereas before we had 65 people and we were getting 100 million views a month. What's the difference between the 65 people and the 10 people?

Optimize our strategy. Obviously, we have a lot of, I guess I won't talk about publicly here. I'm happy to talk about it, but just not super publicly because it's some of our secret sauce. Okay, so secret strategy.

And by the way, when I say secret, like, listen, there's no, what I mean by that is like. Servers in different countries and blah blah. Okay, like real, real, yeah, I got you.

Stuff to make sure that it's... Listen, you know what really pisses me off? When somebody says, oh, he's not sharing it.

It's like, that's like saying, you know, we have this recipe we're not going to share because it's our secret family recipe and you think I'm a d*** for not sharing my secret family recipe that my grandmother... I'm happy to share it, just not on... Yeah, of course, of course, yeah. So I don't blame you.

I don't blame you. It's your secret sauce. Why saturate it?

Why put it out there? To be honest, I don't really care if it gets saturated because the thing is I know it's not going to accomplish what people think it will accomplish. So for me, the reason I still have that department is because we have a rebrand for eyewear that's obviously my business partner bought.

The company, 40% of the company, eight months ago. So from day one, we knew we were going to rebrand. So ShortForm is really good for selling physical product businesses. Physical product business is great. Because the mindset of someone on ShortForm is they're in a consumer or in a fast-paced like, they're in an entertainment and consumerism.

You buy the thing, ship me the thing. Yeah, they're in an entertainment and consumerism. They're not in a learning mind state.

When someone's on TikTok or InstaReels, they're not thinking, I'm going to go in there to learn. But YouTube, YouTube is the info. Yeah, different. What about done-for-you service? The same thing, YouTube?

YouTube. Not short form? No.

People go on short form to relax and decompress. That's true. People go on YouTube to learn. Correct. If someone was starting out and they were...

where like I'm gonna build a five, 10, 15, $20,000 a month content team. Would you say, hey, don't even worry about short form? I give people my full SOP, like the full breakdown, everything that we do in terms of editing styles, how I, listen, I spend maybe two hours a month, maybe 90 minutes a month creating short form content. Like that's it. I don't, I don't, I have never in my life created a TikTok.

All we do is we have a couple of formats that we curate. It goes off to a team, they push it and we get 300 million views a month between all of our accounts. So we go through the entire infrastructure to make sure that you still keep high audience quality because there's some ninja tactics you can do to make sure you don't get start reaching audiences that are in non-buyer countries.

Yeah, to put it simply. It's okay, man. It is what it is.

But again, this is short form. Yeah, this is short form. So if you're selling info or services, it's just not even worth it.

You shouldn't bother. So exactly, I give people that. Maybe do it to nurture people.

like grab your phone type of thing. I wouldn't even say that. It's just not worth it. I give people the full breakdown, the full system to give you an understanding. We got 300 million views on our own accounts.

We have about 70 accounts now. At some point it was 150. We trimmed it down. 70 accounts. And one of the reasons I actually created Digital Launchpad was because we had these massive accounts, but we weren't monetizing them for years. We weren't monetizing the short form department.

So I was like, you know what, we'll create this $37 a month thing. It's going to sell like hotcakes. I'm going to be making millions of dollars a month just from this because of the sheer amount of eyeballs and traffic. We put it out.

I shit you not, within the first month, we made 30 grand. And I just took it off because they're non-buyers. Yeah. They're simply not buyers. Yeah.

So I went through all that pain and headache so other people don't need to. Quality of traffic is mad. Like the difference is massive.

It's... Massive. We use that audience now. The way that I do recoup that money is we use that audience for retargeting data. For our events.

But wait, do you crush it with your eyeglasses on there? Or do you even sell your eyeglasses? At the moment, no. I don't pitch that on short-form accounts.

Do you have any short-form accounts selling any physical products? We don't have any accounts selling anything. Once that rebrand comes out, our new stock arrives, our new packaging, everything. From next month, everything will get pushed to physical. By the way, you gave me a pair of sunglasses.

They were cool. Good. My wife saw them. She was like, oh, those look nice.

She's like, Where'd you get those from? I was like, oh, they're Iman Ghazi. She's like, oh, those are Iman Ghazi. She was excited.

She watches your videos. Very good. 20 grand a month.

Best, even not even less, best content team. Focus on YouTube. Do Instagram later if you're selling physical products.

Now. Where does the editors and stuff come in for YouTube? Is it just editors and posters for YouTube? Or are you just going crazy on YouTube? Well, you don't need posters.

And that's the other thing as well. Even my content this year... I'll be honest, my content this year is very unedited.

Because I made a strategic decision. to go for the 18 to 25 market in 2022, 2023, 2024. In 2022, I was telling my team this. I specifically said in 2022, because they were like, oh, our audience quality, like we're finding we're attracting more wider audience that are less bought into our products.

And basically we need to get more audience to get the same amount of sales. And I said, I know, I know what I'm doing here. Let me conquer this market.

Because the thing is, once you conquer that market, it's hard to go back and relate to this audience, the younger audience. So I'm like, let me conquer this market. Once I feel like I've conquered this market, I can always go to 25 to 35 later.

And that's why even in the past few months, even like this, I'm... And they're going to be 25 to 35 as well. So you're not really...

Exactly. They're growing up as well. Like, bro, if you invited me to do this six months ago, I wouldn't have done it.

I didn't want people to know. Yeah. Did I speak like this?

We appreciate it though, people in my position and that market. I've just played dumb for years because it wasn't in my best interest. Mmm.

Like I'm like why do I, why would I talk about how much money I've made in info if it's not like beneficial to like like what does me saying oh yeah you know this year we've made you know well over eight figures in profit for my info business what does that help speaking of that you're going to be doing a live event eight figure brand challenge my first ever You've been convincing me to do it for a while now. I know, dude. Like, listen. You are the king of that.

I think. That is your domain. That's your space.

And I'm glad you're doing it because when I see the, look, I love the YouTube series. I love all that, but man, when you do it live, and it's so, you just need a whiteboard. You literally just need a whiteboard.

And I don't have the audience you have. I don't have the resources a lot of these guys have. I don't have a $200,000 a month content team like Hormozy has or this building in Vegas.

I just have a whiteboard and a camera. But that's what works. That's also what people don't understand.

The more you put into the production, that's why even like more of our advanced stuff now is less produced. That was the point I was trying to make because people who are a more educated audience, they don't want it It's not like it's not as if they don't want it. They were genuinely off put by it So that's the other thing with people watching this when they're like, oh, you know I have to have this whole production team this that if you have any sort of high ticket offer People don't want that level of production Because they're just like this is so over the top. This is unnecessary. Just give me the I don't need the animation of the bubble.

Whereas a master market audience, they enjoy that. They want that. I'm glad you're doing it. I'm speaking on the fifth day. Fifth day, correct.

And I'm going to leave a link in the description for anybody watching this who wants to attend. Eight-figure brand challenge. You're going to show how to grow an eight-figure info brand without... giving all your money to Zuckerberg and not having anything to show for it.

And so you're going to be going 10 times deeper than you are today. And I'm really excited for that. And I'm glad you're doing it, man. I mean, look.

That whiteboard and a camera built this life for me. And I really... And you, YouTube man, you didn't have to pay the blue man. You did not have to pay the blue man.

You paid him a little bit. You gave him a little token just to pick up some low-hanging fruit. But I think that's amazing. And I think people need to hear this.

They need to hear more of it. And you're going to take them through this process in five days and show them how to scale an info brand to... to the moon, so that they can have a big brand, so that they can, because you were telling me the other day, you said once you have a brand, you kind of live the life like a hot girl, right?

You got pretty privileged. And look, let's be real. Let's be real.

Hot women. They get stuff that other people don't. Period.

Like it's just the way of the world. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. No there's not.

And also I don't think there's anything wrong with like acknowledging, like in the same way I acknowledged earlier I said info is a three out of ten difficulty business. Like sometimes there's nothing, like here's the thing people need to understand. It's okay to take the easy route.

Sometimes. Like, it's okay. Like, if something's easy, that doesn't mean it's bad.

Like, why would you make your life harder? Like, I look at all these people like, yeah, I wanna have all these crazy fucking funnels and blah blah blah stuff and blah... But what do you have a brand you live life on easy mode?

It's... I swear to God, it's like floating. It's like you, you, I get a Rolls Royce. You feel like you're in a Rolls Royce all the time.

That's it. You just get, you get discounted equity or advisory shares just thrown at you. Like free money thrown at you every day, all day.

People like are begging to work with you. You don't have to chase, you attract. people want to work with you. They want to spend more money with you.

They want to find out how they can spend more money with you. You get like other big, for me, the biggest actual benefits has been more even on the employee side of things. You get your pick of the talent anywhere in the world. You get your pick of the talent. Everyone wants to work with you even down to like brands, like when you go and you want to go buy whatever car or buy whatever watch, and these are tough pieces to get.

If you have a brand, you don't need a massive brand. But the point is, and that's the thing other people really don't. I think truly comprehend is everyone has a personal brand. It's just most people's personal brand is working against them.

Like your 500 Instagram followers you have is your personal brand. It's just not doing anything for you. It's a negative, whereas you can turn it into the best asset you have. And the reason I get so passionate about this stuff and the reason I sometimes, you know, I sometimes I might come across salty, but I have no reason to be salty, right?

Because you got to remember, I won this game. More than anyone I know in the past five to ten years, I got more out of info than f***ing anyone else I know. And the best part is at the end, I'm now sitting in a brand where I have deals.

where I'm literally getting more than $10 million in advisory shares. Honestly, deals are much bigger than that. And you would not have got that if you would have spent the same, even half the amount of money.

If I spent that money on Facebook. Double the amount of money on Facebook. If I spend all that money on Facebook churning and burning, because that's the thing, at the end of all this, I got paid $100 million to end, at the end of it, have an asset that will make me billions of dollars.

These guys gave fucking Facebook $50 million. At the end of it, they had nothing because they built no brand and then they shut down. And then I bought their domains. I love that.

I was sitting there, and I'm drinking the coffee that you made for me. You mentioned something, you're like, you know, I own that domain. And I was just like, I was like, what? And this was like a $25 million company, and you just scooped up the domain because they're not doing anything anymore.

They couldn't sell the company. They couldn't do anything with it. And you just grabbed the domain. And listen, there is no person on this planet that appreciates buying someone's domain just to be a d***.

more than me because that's exactly that's totally something i would do like i have no reason to be salty but i have no reason to be because i want is part of it don't you think you would not have the passion you would have in thus the skill that you have and thus the experience that you have, if something didn't piss you off about the industry driving you to correct it, driving you to go against the grain. I mean, I think a little, like imagine if you had food with no salt. It's just, I hate seeing people get misled.

And I've just seen time and time again, people in the full space get misled. And what will happen is you'll get, for example, you know, the individual who makes 36 million in revenue and 1 million profit, and then they'll teach a whole cohort of people. And then those people will repeat the same stuff, not realizing that this person taught the model in the absolutely wrong way, taught the model in a way where they walked away with 15, 20% margins in info. Why, why was that a thing? I've definitely had my disagreements with the big guru.

and I've done it much differently and I've not cashed out a hundred million like you have, but I've cashed out a big chunk. You've done very well. And the thing is as well, you still have a brand that's gonna pay dividends for years. You know? And that's, even you, you have what, 70,000 subscribers on YouTube?

Like almost 70,000. Yeah. 267. You can walk down the street in pretty much every single city in the world.

No one's gonna bother you. No one's gonna stop you. You're not . Famous, you're not this, that, which by the way is the best way to be.

That is the best way to be. Unless you go to a marketing concert. Well, you should stay away from it. Yeah, I got you.

Full stop. But yet, your brand is so strong. Your brand...

I... I know I'm pretty sure I reached out to you. Yeah, you did.

You did. You just randomly I think you text me on WhatsApp. No, Instagram.

Instagram. You did me on Instagram. So it's not about having the largest personal brand. No, it's not about being famous. Strong person.

Strong personal brand in your industry. It's like the tip of a spear. You know, it maybe it's small, but it can just pierce through what you need to pierce through. You and your analogies.

Yeah, you like it. I'm the guy with the words. What would you say to someone who is spending money on their business?

They're spending money on their business, they're spending money on ads, and they're bringing in money, not a great profit margin, but they're bringing it in and they have that fear that if they switch to organic, if they switch to branding, they'll have a temporary lull in income or return. I'm not saying they should do a full switch. Okay. Listen, in life, I have a rule. If something's working, you don't touch it.

That's my rule in life. By the way, including ads. If ads are working well, actually, as an actual profit, not revenue, don't fucking touch it. Of course, keep doing it.

I'm just saying build something in parallel. Why is it a this or that? A lot of people think that.

Listen, the best thing you can do is run ads and have content. But if I had to pick one, I know which one I'd pick. For me, the best way to describe it is all these people.

You know, over all these years, they were spending tens of millions on ads. They were renters. They were renters, and eventually, their landlord kicked them out.

And they're f***ing homeless now. Whereas, I focused on ownership. I own my number one asset, which is my personal brand.

It's the... Take away everything I have. Leave me my personal brand. I'll make $100 million back within three years. Guaranteed.

There's two things here. There's the personal brand and then there's YouTube channel, growing on YouTube. What is the connection between those two things?

Let's say you share tutorials on YouTube. Is that really building a personal brand? What do you have to do?

to do in your YouTube content to build that brand? Well, quite simply, you have to make content that your client or customer that would actually make them buy. And that's the thing, I see so many people as well, they make seven millionaire habits videos.

And I'm like, trying to copy me. And I'm like, what the does a seven millionaire habits video have to do with you selling your $25,000 B2B offer? Or they'll do the day in the life of a millionaire.

Day in the life of a multimillionaire in Dubai. Okay, you have a $20,000 recruitment agency offer. Have you done one of those? I didn't cross that off the list. Have you done one of those?

I was thinking about it. Definitely do not do that. Because here's the thing, right? Let's say, for example, you.

You have an offer for people in the info space, general. Anyone who wants to make money with their offer. Yeah, agency or info.

Agency, info, right? Instead, what I would do is a day in the life of a... $10 million or $5 million a year infopreneur. Because the only one who understands what an infopreneur is, is people in the info space. But if you just make a day in the life of a whatever such and such multimillionaire in Dubai, now you're just attracting anyone who wants to see Dubai lifestyle.

That could be someone who works at McDonald's and doesn't even want to start a business. They just want to see how millionaires live in Dubai. But people don't think about this stuff. But you would think about it in ads.

But when you upload it, because even me, I'm like, of course I would make it. I wouldn't even question that in ads. But then with YouTube, you just forget everything.

Just so people understand, I view YouTube like I actually just view it like an ad platform. I look at the thumbnail as the creative and the title as the hook. Wow, that's really good. When I look at it, just think about it like that, and it's easy. That's true.

Right? And then I think about the targeting as the concept of the video. What about selling?

They say, oh, don't sell on YouTube. Don't sell in your content. How do you feel about that? Well, it depends.

Like, what are you selling? If you're selling something cheap, yeah, you could sell in your content. Like for example, every single one of my vlogs, I mention, hey, there's a new collection that comes out in Gadgie, and then we'll do 150K that day. So what's wrong with that?

Because I don't need to take them through a process. It's like, okay, it's eyewear. The cost is 95. $25 I don't need to know much else apart from that now obviously for example we have something called 8FL with that first of all we actually vet people like we don't work with any trading or crypto businesses we don't work any only fans webcam businesses that's just like a ethical you know that's just a personal decision we don't work with any business of making less than 250,000 a year so you have to prove that you're making 250k because we don't want any beginners and obviously no and the last is like we don't work with any businesses we genuinely don't think we can help. So that's why we have to take it to a call. So I'm not gonna sell the full thing on the YouTube video, then you send people to book a call.

I send them to my three day event. I guess, I mean, I'm not a fan of sales teams, but I guess if I wanted to take like a vacation or something I would either automate my challenge or maybe send them to like one closer. But like, I see the whole sales team thing, man, just makes me sick.

But once again, I think that's super important. In the info space? In fact, just general in business.

You can do whatever the f*** you want. It's your business. There's no right or wrong. Everybody's trying to do what somebody else does.

Is telling them to do. Like your buddy's bench-pressing 300 pounds. You get a smack on 300 pounds? Or are you going to start with 135?

No, but it's not. Yeah, exactly, to get to that point. But for me, it's like, well, maybe you don't want to bench press.

Maybe you want to do CrossFit. Maybe you want to do yoga. And that's fine.

Like, that's the other thing that, for me, frustrates me. Like, I've just seen all these people in the info space, they talk in absolutes. Whereas there's no nuance. Like, for example, when I'm working with someone in the info space, the first thing I ask them is, what do you want in life?

And millions of people ask that question, and it pisses me off. Because sometimes I ask the person, I say, what do you want in life? Because in their mind, they'll be like, I want to make $30 million a year in revenue. $30 million a year in revenue and have these self-liquidation funnel that goes into a blah, blah, with such and such, like these complicated funnels, the whole system, offices, blah, blah.

And then when I asked him, I said, listen, bro, there's no right or wrong answer. Speak to me as a human. There's no right or wrong answer.

What is an amount of money where if you're making that passively every month, you would chill? There you go. 40 grand a month. I go, why go through all this f***ing headache, bro? You already have 5 million.

Let's just get you another 5 million in the next 2 years from the business. You got 10 million liquid. Yeah.

You're done. I can tell you mine. What is yours? Mine is 500 grand a month with a team that I can count on less than two hands. And at least 25 days out of the month, I can do whatever I want.

That is a beautiful life. It's not about making the most money. Like, that's also why I tell people they probably shouldn't try to take it to the scale that I've taken it to. That's why I don't scale past that. I used to.

And it was same thing you were talking about. High ego numbers, lower profit margin, more people, more complication, more this, more that is just like why like why yeah it's unnecessary so it goes against my life design you know if you if you don't create a life design you'll be living by someone else's design so i totally agree with you you should you should have a life design and that your business should support that not go against you know i often tell people i say write down the life that you want write it out in detail does that life require more money and they say yes list out the things you think you need to do to make more money. They list them out.

I say, now, do those things go against your dream life? Are they in conflict with your dream life? And they're like, well, yeah. I'm like, well, then why?

I'm like, well, what? So let me get this straight. Here's my dream life.

It costs more money. I'm going to go do stuff that gives me the money I need for that life, but doesn't allow me to have that life. It's insane. It's nuts. It's nuts.

Listen, if I wanted to have the quote-unquote best quality of life, if I just wanted to have a lifestyle business, all I would do is I would have a micro. niche youtube 5 000 10 000 15 000 subscribers talking about one specific topic sometimes i will send people to book a call directly if it's like a strong if they're hot like the video was very impactful and they know what they're buying and you know what they're getting or they're like whatever you just told me i want that in my life or my business like it's a very we all have we all know when we've created those impactful videos really like i would buy my This is like, this is fire. Or if it's more just like a general conceptual video, like for example, on my business channel, I have videos, for example, where I talk about how to hire A players.

No one's gonna look at that and be like, oh my God, I wanna take my credit card. Whereas I have videos where I talk about our flywheel VSL. We had one VSL on YouTube, the one that got nearly 10 million subscribers.

Sorry, 10 million views. That made us $20 million. So when someone sees that and we're like, well, we have a whole SOP, like we'll show you exactly how to do the whole thing. They're like, take my money, right?

So that sort of video, I send people to book a call. The one where it's eight players, right? Where it's a little bit more conceptual, very valuable, but a little bit more conceptual. There I send people to my Instagram. So if I wanted to just make, have a million year net on a micro niche YouTube channel, Instagram to nurture, show more testimonials, wins, client wins, lifestyle, this, that, relatability, that.

I work maybe 15, 20 hours a week coaching. And I enjoy the rest of my days and make a million a year, about 60 to 100 grand a month. You get the course, you get the community, you get some one-on-one coaching. And I enjoy my days.

Amazing. I got one more question for you that's been burning on my mind. You've done nine figures in info. And quite a bit in physical products.

I don't know the exact number. I mean, listen, we've done in the past five, I mean, past 90 days, maybe just over 90 days. I mean, listen, we've done five, five and a half, six million in software.

Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. Here's the question. When it comes to emotional selling versus logical selling, meaning the emotional. would be like your videos where you talk about like the habits and the, you know, getting over your fears and all this. And then the more logical would be like, Hey, here's this tactic, the flywheel VSL, right?

Do you find that the more savvy or the more upper end the audience, the less you need to do the emotional stuff and you really just need to stick to. Tactical? Correct. And the more wider general the audience, the more you need to lean away from tactical and more logical and more towards emotional. Correct.

So, with someone who was doing a B2B offer, who maybe struggled with emotion and all that and they just, hey, I know cool stuff. Would you say that like that's okay for them to put out content that isn't so, because you know we're told all the time. You know, it's the emotions that sell. Don't talk about technical stuff. Don't talk about, you know, don't teach, you know, inspire and blah, blah, blah.

But don't you think that's more of a mass market thing? And that really doesn't apply as much, maybe a little bit, but as much with a more savvy upper end audience? I think, listen, what you can do with that upper end audience is 90% of your content can be very logical value-based. So they're just always, your audience is always looking like, okay, this person knows what they're talking about.

Clearly, like... You're just so high up in the person's mind. And then when you do go for that kill shot, so let's say, for example, you release a VSL or you have an event, that's where it can be more emotional.

Like, for example, we have our events. Yeah, exactly. In the conversion phase, that's where you amp things up more.

But in the day-to-day content, once again, we're talking about a serious, if we're talking about B2B offers. Right. And we're talking about more educated buyers and an educated audience.

That's when you can amp up the emotionality a little more. What about in physical products? Nothing.

In fact, I was actually having a conversation yesterday with my team and at the moment in London There's a big campaign like a big shoot that we've got going on and there was a monologue portion of the like one of the scenes There was like kind of like inspiring and I was like cut the shit out. This shit is fucking patronizing. Really?

Yeah, people do not want to buy sunglasses and be given a motivational speech like F*** that What made that go through? How did your brain come to that conclusion? Once again, you've got to remember they're in consumer mindset. When you're buying glasses, first of all, it also depends whether you're selling to females or males.

For example, our creative director and our COO at my eyewear business are both females. So sometimes I even have to remind them. The female market likes to buy s*** they're angry about.

No, the big thing for them is relatability as well. They say, oh, because they want to make relatable content for our socials. I'm like, it shouldn't be relatable. Men buy for aspiration. You know, women need to feel soft and fuzzy, like I can do it too, blah, blah.

A lot of times men, when they're buying physical products, I mean, right? When they're buying physical products, it's aspirational. It's like, I want to be like that.

I want that car because I also want to feel like I'm James Bond. Oh, it's just more strict lifestyle content. Correct, yeah. Hey, this is my life. It's dope.

I wear these glasses. You should wear these glasses too. But show, don't tell. If you say it... It loses the natural.

Well, of course, it's subliminal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

But that's why, for example, like, even in the way that you sell physical product businesses, it also depends on what the company is. Like, for example, the eyewear is very timeless. That's the reason I love the business so much is because it's very timeless. You don't need to change shapes and there doesn't need to be a narrative. Basically, you don't need to, like, that's the other thing when you're selling, like, clothing, right?

You have to build a story around it because inherently they don't really have any value. Whereas, like, people don't need a story around the eyewear. It's more, I find the eyewear is a little bit more of a utility.

Okay. You know, like someone like spills red wine on their $400 shirt or their $400 hoodie, they're probably not going to go re-buy it straight away. Whereas someone sits on their $400 glasses, they go buy it straight away. Mm.

Because it's almost like a utility thing to them. Ah. So, yeah, the way that you sell physical products really depends on just the nature of the brand as well.

What do you think the top three physical product markets are? I wear is number one. Like, I wear is the info of physical products.

Because every I wear business, every single I wear business has an 80 to 95% margin. Is it hard to start? Gross margin.

Do you like a million bucks in startup costs or? No, you can start less. I think our first order, I started the business four years ago. And I think our first ever order was, I don't know, maybe like $30,000.

Oh, really? Yeah, I mean $30,000, but the stock was worth about like, I mean, back there. But you had designed the glasses and everything, right?

That's not that hard. That's the other thing that really annoys me about, that's the one thing that really actually annoys me about hate about info. Because people, bro, I have never, I've made almost $10 million selling eyewear.

Okay? All organic, by the way. Over the space of the last four years. Actually, no, scratch that.

Probably closer to $8 million, if I'm being honest. I've never once had a single person complain like this isn't worth it blah blah this but yet people will complain about digital launchpad which is $37 a month and they'll be like oh it's overpriced blah blah look it's just once again it's the consumer mindset uh and it just annoys me because people think right they think these products are so difficult to make now I've made products that are more difficult to make like for example we haven't launched it yet but we have this watch case super premium watch case you It's been super difficult in terms of like trying to get Alcantara. We want to use Alcantara rather than microfiber on the inside.

And that's been like, it's been like a six month pro... Like it's, that's actually been tough. It's an aluminum case, it's beautiful, clamshell.

Yeah, like stuff like that is... What do you think about, this is going to be off the prayer beads. Yeah, of course.

Yeah? Yeah. Could be very well. Okay. But you'll hate the business.

Why would I hate the business? Because you'll make... 30 million in revenue.

You'll do 20% EBITDA. You'll keep 6 million. But remember, when an e-commerce business keeps 6 million out of 30 million, they still have to keep 3 million back for stock.

I've had it before where I've had my physical products held for three or four months at customs because it was COVID times. Now I'm lucky because I have other businesses. So you've got to figure out logistics.

I have other businesses, but if you're, let's say for example, you're running on thin margins, or like you don't have a solid padded cash flow, now that could put an e-commerce business in very sticky waters. You think prayer beads isn't as... profitable as I were? I think it'll be harder to get return on investment ads in the same way. What if you didn't need ads?

How are you going to get that many sales organically? I know how. We talked about it before. Fair. Touche.

Touche. So yeah, I just think, listen, for you coming from info, like I just know... You live a better life than me, and that's the truth of it. Why do you say that?

I've spent a million a month on personal lifestyle to test it out. As in like I've actually tested these things and broken down spending. I've spent a million dollars a month in personal spending. I've spent a hundred grand a month in personal spending. Past 250 a month in personal spending.

Zero difference. As in like when I say zero difference, I mean literally you're having to find excuses to spend money. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I mean by zero difference. Yeah.

So for me, it's like I have all of this excess money far past that, but for what? So in terms of actual quality of life, you have a better quality of life, but everyone's wired differently. And I think that's why that's the first thing I ask people.

I said, what do you want in life? Like, let's talk about who you are as a person. Because for some people, like I got to my number.

four years ago, 2021, I'll be honest, I got very fortunate. I got very lucky with crypto. So I arrived at my number a lot quicker than I thought I was going to arrive to over 10 million liquid.

And I genuinely considered it. Like I was like, I was like, you know, maybe I just retire for the rest of my twenties. And then I hop back into business in my thirties.

I just, the idea of that just depressed me. I just got depressed. Now bear in mind the other big reason why. But you're not married, right?

Are you married? No. No, you're not married. You don't have kids. No.

Yeah, dude, it's different when you... That changes everything. You know, like for me, I was grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. And when I had a kid...

and all that, it just completely shifted my priorities. So you start looking for easier ways to make the same money. Or even easier ways to make half the money. And then by the way, there's nothing wrong with that.

That's why I get so like, annoyed, like these infomercials. where it's just like go go go go or and let me sit in the phantom so but i told you that costs money no but also this is the other thing i'm very honest with people when it comes to like listen i will i'll keep it real that the phantom is like the best car in the world we chauffeured in it's like a different level of experience no no it is but for example people say oh should i buy a maybach and i always tell them don't get me back at the highest trim s class with three thousand five thousand kilometers on it two three whatever let someone else take the depreciation you're gonna get 90 the experience yeah like half less than half the price, or Range Rover. I tell people all the time, Range Rovers, I swear to God, I would take a Range Rover over a Cullinan any day. Really? Any day of the week.

Range Rovers are great. You can drive, you can be driven, and they depreciate like a mother. Do you go out in Dubai a lot?

Do you go out to restaurants and stuff? Yeah. I know you go to that private club that I met you at.

Arts club, yeah. I wanted to ask you if you could get me in. I know there's like a six-month waiting list. Yeah.

So if you happen to maybe... I can figure it out. I appreciate it. That was a nice club.

It's in DFIC, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I noticed if I go out in Dubai, dude, I'll go out and pay like $1,000 for a dinner with Shisha. The dinner will be okay. The Shisha will be kind of sh**. And then I'll go out and pay 150 bucks like over here the food will be better and the shisha will be way better And I'm like why would I like what am I doing? So I just go there, you know, screw it So it's it's a lot of its for show a lot of it's like like you said like you you don't need to buy this Maybach because it says Maybach you can buy the s-class, you know also like I see this because some people, you know Some people tell me Oh, you spend too much on lifestyle, you care too much what other people think.

And I always remind them, I'm like, you're the one that cares how much... You're the one that cares so much about how other people think because you won't even reward yourself for your success. Because you're worried you're going to look egotistical.

But I'm like, I don't give a f***. There's certain things I'm willing to spend money on. There's certain things I'm not willing to spend money on. For example...

I've made enough to buy a Bugatti from a week's earning many times in my life. Multiple, multiple times. The reason I don't have a Bugatti or a Pagani or a LaFerrari, I've driven them all, minus one.

I felt nothing. I have more fun in my GT3. And this isn't like I drove it down the road.

I've done full-on road trips because my friends, I'm very fortunate to have some very affluent friends. I just don't care. Now there's certain other things that I really care about that other people don't. So I just think it's about finding all of these things you care about.

Yeah. I really wanted a penthouse in downtown St. Pete, and I was about $800,000 short to buy it. So I went and I did an event.

I did what I call a paid presentation. million bucks, took my $800,000, put $200,000 aside for taxes, figure it out later, and bought the penthouse and there you go. Because I cared enough to go do it to get what I wanted. But I'm not just walking around saying, oh, I need to... Because then you start sacrificing time for money.

You just want to make money for the sake of it. If I say, why are you a million bucks? No questions asked, everybody would say yes. But if I say, well, you can't wake up tomorrow, well, then it's a no.

What if it's 10 million? What if it's 100 million? What if it's a billion?

It's still no, because time is infinitely, infinitely, infinitely more valuable than money. And people don't think about that. So I always look at how can I make the same money in less time? Because I don't think a dollar is a dollar.

I don't think $1 equals $1. If I take a dollar. and I put it here in front of my feet, and then I take another dollar and I put it a mile down the road, and you ask me, which dollar do I want? Well, I want this dollar, because I can just pick it up. I have to walk a mile for that dollar.

So are they really worth the same? No, this dollar is worth more than that, because it's closer and easier. So that's how I like to think about things.

And I think that you can relate to that, because you're just really good at business. And what I notice about you is the excess you have, the money that you have, that you have, the success you have, comes not from individual skills you might have, but your macro understanding of the business. That's what I notice about you.

And you could be the best copywriter in the world, you could be the best advertiser in the world, this, that, but if you don't understand the business, you'll never compete with somebody like you who understands the business. And that's why, like when you said, why are you making day in the life videos when you sell a 20, it just doesn't make any sense. Don't do the whole monkey see, monkey do thing.

Just because someone's successful doesn't mean that you should follow their same formula. That's why I keep telling people like, just because I do something, I have a reason. I have intention behind it. So maybe find out my intention and then see if it makes sense for you.

Don't just blatantly copy what I do. Because in the same way, I looked at these other people that were successful and I'm like, is that my version of success? No, it's not. Does that align with my goals? Maybe for them, that was their, it was all about the bigger figures.

Because for example, like I've never hit from the info business, I've never hit $35 million in revenue. I don't have that. that in my trophy drawer. But for me, that's not what success looks like. Whereas for them, maybe that is far more important than ever hitting well over eight figures in profit, which we've done three years in a row now, well over that.

So. It just depends what you want. Brother, I don't want to take up your whole day.

I know you've got tons of stuff to do. What card did you come in? It came in the range, actually.

Oh, you came in the range. I'm leaving in the Maybach because I've got to shoot a video. Brother, thank you so much.

Cheers. Bye. By the way, guys, if you want to attend the eight figure brand challenge, I'll leave a link in the description. I'm gonna be speaking on day five.

You'll be covering obviously the first four days to show you how to build a brand, an eight figure brand, without having to give all the money to Zuckerman. Link in the description. Don't forget to subscribe.

See you in the next one.