[Music] hello and welcome to complimentary colors I it's a special day today because I'm joined with you the entire MCG interior design studio here all the interior designers are here so I'm with Cara Rood hello KY ke hi hello and our special guest Ashley Gan hello all right are you ladies excited to talk about what we're going to talk about today yes always intimidated ready all right well let's dive into [Music] neurodiversity first though I would like to give a disclaimer one it's a very big topic so I think it will split split some of these conversations up into a couple episodes um because it can definitely fall into different sectors of which we do inside of our office like Transportation Healthcare education not just the workforce um but today I think we're going to touch a little bit on how it kind of interacts with us personally and what we feel neurodiversity is and how we can better it in our designs we acknowledge that neurodiversity encompasses a broad range of conditions some of which may be unresponsive to design Solutions addressing the needs of neurodiverse individuals should involve a review of human resource policies Technology Solutions building operations and other factors we do not guarantee that any design Solutions we discussed today with you can achieve specific outcomes for individual users we are just sharing insights experiences that we've heard and seen through our research and we're excited to start today so ladies I'm G to ask you a question what does neurodiversity mean to you personally and Casey I'm gonna start with you I'm ready okay what does it mean to you personally so I forced myself not to look it up so that I could Define it like I said previously um and I've said that it means accounting for all brains and all personalities rather than accepting normal or normal in quotation marks or the understood majority again in quotation marks because my personal experience has told me that nine out of 10 people have something that falls into the category of neurodiversity so really the outlier should be the 1% that we have accepted as quote unquote normal and maybe that normal has been defined by Cinema or advertisement or because I would say that now that we're also hyperlynx it all the way back like what did it mean then because you know 30 years ago growing up um anyone that was not that quotation normal there was they were called just special needs oh they have special needs and just kind of all lumped together you know and I have um or had a aunt that um had a neurod disease and um we would go and we would see her she had cereal PSY and we'd see her in the place that she stayed and as a child I think I was like five or six at the time you know I think I viewed neurodiversity as fear-based just cuz I I didn't understand it at that time and then kind of seeing as you know it's worked into our career's work um over the time it's just broadened you know and if anything it's become now the opposite of that view that I started with good point and it's become more acceptance and more freedom to ask for things you need that's a really good that's a really good personal aspect on it um Ashley what about you what do you got actually kind of the same thing thinking back to my child childhood um I feel like it's kind of you feel like an other you know you don't feel like you're part of the norm you feel like you're kind of the weird kid out there and um you know going back to my personal experience um being diagnosed with ADD when I was in first grade um you know it's always been a little bit of you just feel like you have to work harder than the normal person than the average person but uh Carrie good point as you pointed out like we're getting so much more insight with the public on you know with social media on like actually more people more and more people are you know neurod Divergent than we think yeah it's kind of crazy and because I've I've been nerding out on this topic probably since 2018 um it has evolved for me personally too because now that I've been a little bit more aware of my surroundings and my family and friends I found that neurodiversity to me personally is almost finding those individuals that can do things differently better than me like pattern recognition details um math math that's a big one I mean I'm sorry Rainman came to mind when I was like I remember being like jealous on the phone book scene I was like I want to know how to do that granted the psyche I was like 11 you know and I was like still that's dope you know that's really funny well when I was trying to find a neutral definition to neurodiversity to start it kind of a nice blend of what everybody has been saying um scientifically they say that neurodiversity is an approach to education and ability that supports the fact that various neurological conditions are the effect of normal changes and variations in the human genome so that's um ADHD so I don't know where did that add turn into ADHD that's a good question I'm not sure cuz you know I grew up in the the '90s you know as a kid it was always ad attention deficit disorder and then it became ADHD I guess that they did discover that there's two kinds of ADH I say they're two different types CU there's the intive and the more like hyperactive like it used to be autism and now there's a syndrome so true and hm was the next one on the list um along with um just other types of like neurological disorders simpar to your aunt that you were talking about um but other than that when when you research how neurodiversity impacts the interior spaces it comes up with a A different kind of definition and it might be just a softer definition um because we are realizing how many people around us are neurod Divergent and it's just basic basically saying that re researches highlights that neurodiversity is not defined by a deficiency in comprehension but rather a difference in how people process information which I was like that's perfect it is a difference in the way people process information there we go we're all we're all on some different level of that so I thought that was really interesting and then there were um a couple key terms that I wanted to go over so that we can lay some some playing fields for the next following questions I have for you and some of those key terms are one that we've used before neurodiverse neurodiverse referring to the group of people with a VAR iety of neurological conditions so that's neurodiverse neurodivergent is individuals who think and process information in a different way than Norms of particular culture so we have neurodiverse and neurodivergent MH okay and then we have neurotypical neurotypical are individuals who think and process information in ways that are typical to their culture I'm glad they added the caveat of cult culture exactly that's a really good point Y and then we have within both of those sectors there are hyper sensitive and hypers sensitive individuals are those who can easily experience sensory overload or over stimulation and then we have hyposensitive and those are individuals who have a decreased ability to experience sensory stimulation so I wanted to throw those ones out there so that when we talk about some of these next questions I'm sure some of these will come up so when we reading all this research and we see hypo versus Hyper like oh it's studying in a cafe or the library like what what am I um so with that being said I wanted to ask you guys what was the first time you heard of neurodiversity in research College I mean yeah I would say it was um it was very specific though it wasn't like this thread that they wo through all of the courses it was specific to a studio about designing for the elderly and you know uh which then kind of led into Universal Design oh like um dementia right and um how we affect that in color theory affecting their blood pressure but then also like patterning affecting vertigo so vertigo was always that like you know the kicker that they were like every you know the I so I was I was trying to think how that would even apply here because they were hyper sensitive you know to the patterning and so we needed to calm that down and then really the same thing where um color theory like it just needed to be more calm but then contrasting CU they were losing that ability to see contrast as easily it's almost like as a baby and then as an we return to that kind of black and white need High cont yeah and I think you're right on the typical Neuroscience from the scientific realm really focused on that neurodiverse the ones that had the neurological conditions more um and typically many of those almost 99.9% are hypers sensitive so they almost went hand inand interesting interesting yeah yeah but I would say besides that it really didn't hit home until you started studying for your uh uh Healthcare T and then it started coming into my life a lot more so you would be my most recent you're such a great conduit for information Casey what about you uh I probably didn't hear the term in a formal sense until after University and specifically I remember hearing out of ilfi ilfi yes uh for those who don't know the in Institute for living Futures international living Futures Institute there it is I had to think about it that was acon I just know it as uh for the so uh that was probably the first time I heard it in a formal setting um I had always grown up around now being able to label neurodiverse people and a lot of people in my family have uh aspects to their personality that could be categorized as neurodiverse but um I was taught from a very early age that um it doesn't matter like how you learn um or you know at what rate you learn or uh how you intake the world that you do it in your own way and that's totally fine and you do it at your pace and that's good and beautiful and right so I was introduced to that concept young but couldn't have put a label on it until later in life that's really cool when you're like oh I knew that but I didn't know it in that sense it was almost shocking to hear that that's something in yeah it was like why why isn't this why don't people think about that yeah like you don't really have to define kindness you you just know that someone's kind and then you're like oh that means kindness unless you haven't experienced kindness exactly well that's a good point so good point valid what are you think Ashley what do you got um well I was add so I wasn't paying attention no I would say I honestly mic drop that was a good one I honestly um don't know that I've actually heard the term um and maybe I had and it just didn't cuz I didn't I process things differently but um you know until more recently I was scrolling through Instagram there's that funny video of um parks and wreck that don't be suspicious you know don't be suspicious don't be suspicious it talked about like neuroid Divergent brains trying to leave a party and like that's me and I was like so then I had to Google the word I was like oh okay this is what I have you know or what I've dealt with a lot of my life so um yeah it's just kind of in re and I do recall in University studying about the you know the different contrasting color yellows for you know nursing homes and things the high contrast and so I I've heard all of that but I didn't put it all together into like n neuro Divergent so yeah it's pretty interesting I feel like it's pretty it's a pretty new umbrella it is for the majority I was just going to say like I I'm with Cara with like learning some of that stuff almost cuz I minored in Psychology too so there was a little bit of an overlap between what my interior design studies were and the psychology studies but it really wasn't until like 2019 um when I was studying for that Healthcare test and had just passed the well building Institute test because the healthcare one goes very specifically into those neurodiverse conditions right and focusing on how and not all the features of well yeah but then well was really touching on all of the other neurod Divergent things that are so common but never work were labeled like ashy just like you were saying it's like oh that's why that intuitively felt good to that person now we just have a scientific reason why and now can design in a scientific way to give people choice and control of what they do during the day so it really was in that 1819 study mindset time frame of my my life where um right before the pandemic and then I think the pandemic also really shed light on like the common the public outside the profession I think there was they they couldn't Define it it's funny because I'm starting to think a little bit more about um remember right when Starbucks really started to take off and I think I was in Portland during this time so like being in the Northwest I just remember and everyone couldn't Define that spatial quality besides naming the place you know it's like a Starbucks Lobby yeah they would all they would all just use it as this reference I wanted it to feel like Starbucks right and so now but people are like you know they can Define it in other ways about like you know these Comforts of home they could start to talk about like oh no ergonomics is now widely used by the public things like that where the light quality so I do feel like the more information we've been given and shared you know socially that now we could Define better yeah kudos to Starbucks though for exactly starting that kind of why does that feel good right they really did a good job putting that going outside of home to feel like home yes third place yeah the third place trust me I took that I worked there so they brainwash you and they give you oh Place well then they coined it good job I mean it's not unique to them the Greeks started it just saying oh oh okay Casey how did the Greeks start it I'm curious now oh well no that's very off topic that'll be another the third place coming to uh podcast coming to a podcast you learn why the Starbucks feels so important we will we'll we'll come back to Starbucks um well on that note there was some kind of interesting information that I found um for everybody that loves the statistics out there um and there's a report developed by H and H is a a big design company that I love and follow um similar to what gansler does with their Think Lab but they have um a research Department and they've put a lot of effort into researching uh neur neurodiversity and the workforce and Healthcare and transportations a lot of different sectors and so they found that 20% of employees are neurode Divergent period and 20% I was going to say that's it well see caveat there you go now remember there is neurod Divergent and neurod diverse there you go got it okay mhm So noro virgent 20% and then the US Bureau of Labor Statistics 19.3% are neurodiverse so that means 40% of our population are either neurodiverse or neurodivergent so that means only 60% are neurotypical that's almost an even 50/50 MH so I thought that was really interesting I wanted wanted to share that but then within those settings there was those two spectrums of the hypo and the hyper sensitive so hyper versus hypo um in any given environment hypers sensitive people have difficulty seeing hearing or feeling acute sensory detail okay and then others prefer to be stimulated and need stimuli to process the sensory information so this was kind of the example of uh for example Cara where where did you study in college where did I like the physical place not the where did you go to geographical um in my studio mostly in your studio did you listen to music oh yeah okay so it wasn't quiet you are in your home I love that she's TP casting me cuz she's like oh she's going to be hypo for show and I'm like just yes I like to be around a lot of people a lot of things happening I actually went to the um Public Library also just cuz I liked the energy around me if I went home and was like in solitude I'd get distracted or fall asleep interesting yeah so I was opposite in a way cuz I liked the I didn't like the library cuz it wasn't activated enough so it's probably just difference between in our library so I find myself at Starbucks random random um but then I would always be listening to music too so it was like I needed the physical stimulation but I needed to zone out the background noise so I wouldn't get easily distracted to focus and Ashley I think you always surprise me with saying oh yeah I listen to that podcast while I did work I was like God I would just derail myself like I cannot listen to a podcast and listen to my own internal model of what I'm supposed to be doing from a dayto day so in in school where did you study um usually back at my my dorm or my you know apartment um I think kind of being more sensitive to stimuli you know it was like distracting being at the library people doing so um you know it was harder to focus so actually listening to music you know in my apartment was probably so no physical stimuli just mental stimuli and then Casey what about you where' you study uh it changed so I for our audience I grew up homeschooled uh K through 12 which is a very different world to live in especially uh when you learn to study and take courses and and do all of that solo Doo like I was by myself my had my brothers around until high school and then high school was just me and my mom and so when I first went to University studying was um by myself in my room my door close to like please don't distract me because like I don't know how to deal with you until like I got used to the like I could still never study with friends at the table but I went from like I need a quiet room and Maybe music in the background to I like to be out and about and like in a coffee shop um with music or a podcast in my ear so it changed which is very weird for me see like there was definitely transition periods when I realized the way I had learned to like study and work wasn't working anymore so I had to like figure out if I was a library girly or if I was a student Hall girly or if I was you know a student Lobby girly and like it ended up being coffee shops away from people people that I would talk to but yet around stimuli yeah around energy yeah so what I was going with that is that studying for an exam can be just as stressful as some of the work we do day to day in our careers yeah and so you've got two coffee shop girls with background noise and then two different well you you did the library too so but more of the like um music and quiet spaces um and so the office scenario gives a lot of those similar aspects to where we can choose where we're going to do that work depending on the office depending on the office and so that's what they're finding is that even if you're new typical you still are either hypo or hyper so designing for neurodiversity is a A+ for everybody it's like a home run so when you learned about neurodiversity um where where did you see yourself validating what you had designed or thinking differently about what you can design in the future Carol I'm G to start with you um I think where I've seen it is that I used to try to get very detailed in the um different types of spaces cuz I always knew like autonomy and choice were very important you know that's always been like a backbone of what interior design is um but I think I used to try to overdo the built-ins and overdo like I'm going to solve every problem instead of now I try to make it as like flexible for me is like almost like a room that could be you know Changed by someone that walked in that had never been there before and I think before it was like let me do all the work for you which in turn kind of pigeon holes you in technology of the time you know or in the way people even function socially you must look at this wall if you want a projector it's like right like I mean how many amazing conference rooms did I design early in my career and now everyone wants like a write on every W right or they you know have Flex spaces and something that's more informal we've all learned gets more in you know information out of a group rather than activated absolutely so um I would say I am not overdesigning as much yeah that's a really good point Ashley what about what about you um I kind of first learned about you know this in general with um still has had a um segment on Susan Kain and how she had the quiet spaces that was kind of like a big start of like we have this open office now you know everybody wants the Open office but what about the introverts of the group or the the N neurod Divergent people of the group um or people who just need some quiet um so providing these you know kind of more quiet spaces Within These group you know or open Office to get away and have that Solitude or have that even private phone call um it's I think it's really important to provide different environments for different types of work and um you get kind of like you can get pige and hold into you know everything's open but that's not not good or scare people with the whole open office and they think about that when in reality we have found better ways because it's backed by science and all the stuff we're talking about today that we won't just put you on one big open room we promise but it's good for collaboration for depending on the type of work you're doing so there's the benefits to it but yeah I think I think it was also a Steelcase white paper um a while ago I'm pretty sure it was postco but not this year um but it had it talked about the fact that when we did open the office up and we took away all of these walls the productivity and collaboration soared but the satisfaction plummeted and the satisfaction plummeted in the fact that of privacy and Acoustics that makes sense so that it really has driven the furniture industry to really figure out ways that we can solve that problem without having to build back all of these walls so I'm I'm definitely in with you and with the Prospect and refuge so yes choice and control is all about being able to choose whether you're in one space or another um and just having the this those spaces also have a a different tactile and sensory feel so with like it can be paint it can be a texture but it also could be a really good use of lighting so I think I feel like lighting has been my goal to figure out how to do that a little better to be a little bit more flexible for all of the neurod Divergent and neurodiverse people um espcially if you engage circadium myself oh my gosh circadium Rhythm why don't you come up right now to Alaska and experience our 4 hours a daylight M well it's it messes with sides and I Ashley and I were talking about this earlier in the office of like just that light change she's cuz she just moved up yep coming back after being gone for 5 years so it's like okay got to readjust to the long stretches Darkness oh the darkness Casey what about uh anything that you've expanded on or changed because of what you've learned I don't know if I've I've personally had the opportunity to um to change and grow in the same way because I am a few years behind you guys um just in like experience um however it has been something that I've always tried to think of and like is part of the reason I went into design in the first place I'm like everyone deserves to have a space that feels good to them um whether or not it's always going to be perfect if there's something about the space that feels good no matter how you think or view the world that was always kind of my myo of wanting to you know get into the field as it is but um you know I think it's something that we're learning to design for as a field as an industry as uh education systems as governments like it's it's definitely something that people are still learning I love that they're still learning too it's not just like nope that's how it's been done forever don't touch it it's not broke don't fix it M well how do you know until you use it a try um and so bouncing off of what you said is there a public space that you've seen be either like a really good success or really big failure for I'm ready I'm going to steal this one first okay you take it gems gem they suck I'm like where do you work out like put them on blast cuz I'm curious everywhere everywhere I've ever walked into a gym like listen up it's it's made for narcissistic males I'm sorry like girl I love mirrors too okay it's not about the mirrors it's about we're clarifying what's narcissis not the mirrors no it's not the mirrors it's like yes you need to check your form there's technicalities of like being in a gym that you need certain things however it's uh men are typically more competitive than women so wear all the weights in the biggest room possible so that the men can basically compete against one another and and that gets that's very intimidating for someone of a normal caliber let alone someone who's mildly narod Divergent and uh I think that that's a space that has never been fully activated because it comes from gymnasiums and GRE Greco Roman culture right which was male dominated women were not allowed in gymnasiums I'm just thinking the Acoustics I'm just on your ban you know like cling and like the music that you don't like MH it's like yeah just so then you pop in your headphones but then someone's like hey are you done with that hey are you done with that and that's F pulls you out of your Zone you know so I think that gymnasiums are one of the most insensitively designed places that people frequent on a daily basis and on that note too I want to add that you were saying um almost neuro Divergent neurod Divergent also encompasses those with anxiety yeah and depression mhm so it's it's not um just like ADHD um it's definitely a broader sense so those with the anxiety in a gym I can definitely understand that pain um Ashley what about you do you have any success or failure stories um I would just say you know being sensitive hyper sensitive to my environment being places that are so freaking loud like you know bad acoustics bad lighting you know just the kind of the general VI using your five senses go through a space and use your five senses and if anything's getting over stimulated you know it's like it's you know it not good G coming from a soccer mom yeah sports event family right right I can see where that could be a little bit excessive for noise control yeah but I'm thinking like restaurants in particular oh my gosh not even be able to have a conversation that's hard like what what are you say I don't know respond to you cuz I can't hear or you shut down from too much I'm just going to head out at this point and then go home and take a nap that's funny all right Cara what about you malls o because it there's some psychology behind malls I don't know if you guys have ever like let yourself really dive into like they're mapping us like the way they put stores next other stores and the lighting change they're trying to have unique experiences like back to back to back to back but yet you're in like this cattle Corridor most of the timey world where you're trying to avoid the middle because like that's the most aggressive socially seriously do you want to try the sample right constant but I would say thought that was a good idea it could also be such a wonderful opportunity for people that you know have neurodiversity needs that it's like if it was categorized not on consumption which it will never not be about consumerism you know it's but if a mall maybe took an opportunity on a revamp to put stores like each other next to each other then all of a sudden the Kid Zone would be very well established or you would start to establish like a a deeper experience which would be almost one that was sought after you know it wouldn't be as sporadic it would allow people to like choose find their group better and and what they what their comfort level not segregation wise but like between how people view you know have different needs but in they I need to find my people to feel safe and I also think malls it's like a dying culture and maybe it's because of my bringing it back is here's the thing they are the OG of the community center you know and I feel like they're especially in our Arctic climate here it's just such a beautiful way to experience volume and also be social and there's just like a lot of ecosystem that you could learn about a society if you have like a very well functioning mall and so just Bing alleys ice skinning rings have you guys seen the design for uh this is a quick Alaska aside but uh when they were trying to see if we would should move our um Capital which is Juno to not going to be at the diamond no it was going to be Willow Willow Alaska Willow Alaska I watch a whole documentary they made like a documentary in the 1970s about there was four major firms that did it and each one of them had a different idea one was like an Alpine Ski Village that you could like ski building to building one was like very like Alaska like in the 1970s but but the one that was very interesting was the most futuristic of the options it was a giant mall every like the whole town of Willow would have bu basically Been Under One Roof can I just say right now every building in Fairbanks like the campus and our DOD facilities are all raising their hand right they're like yo we're like malls like we did that 40° know anyway but it was it was to allow them to escape the environment as well as create the most community that they you know you could get everywhere on a nice covered warm Bri land bre definitely one way to definitely and I guess just the last part of the mall Soap Box I would have would be I think it's important to say that there is difference but not segregate you know and so that's why I'm like oh the mall because I'm just like I'm wanting to find a typology where people can still be around people that aren't the same as them because our learning will stop if we segregate too much you know we don't want to create these spaces that are like very typ casted because then I think we'll yeah we'll stop learning we'll stop flexing yeah definitely and exploring too when you're placed you know the shops are Place different than you can go and explore it's like oh I might not have done that you know gone past that store because I was looking for this certain store and you know Sparks your curiosity stop in yeah that's a good point and I um I recently I'm going to use an example from a recent trip that I had um and it was I I won't call out the airport because a lot of airports will function this way but now that we've gotten ride share under our umbrella of options um getting to ride share from anywhere in an airport is is so different anywhere you go that anybody that has any slight of um like just anxiety in general I'm like it's anxiety causing okay it's it's just it needs it needs some help so I think that is one that I can see can definitely benefit from some of these things so on the topic of what we can do better or what we're doing good in public space there was an article that um another design firm that I will put all these in our our show Notes too so you guys can have access to these but they basically had a couple um segments of what we could do to think about designing it a little bit better for all of neurodiverse and neurod Divergent individuals so the first one was stimulation versus naturalness and I thought that was kind of that they use naturalness not nature so we yeah word yeah and it was like really for them it seemed it they said it was like the most difficult elements for them to Define because it was almost too simple like stimulation nature but nature also stimulation so basically saying that there is always going to be um a fine line of a balance between what we provide and it kind of goes back to what you're saying care of choice and control right if we provide the options to either be stimulated when you need to be stimulated or have naturalness when you need that respit and that Comfort the next one um was flexibility adaptivity the next one was flexibility adjustability and opportunities for movement which I thought was really smart because that also goes back to the well and Furniture Ashley you want to talk more about like how that could be in Furniture movement within Furniture um well obviously hide adjustable it's like the first thing yeah so sit to stand desks um and they make even like treadmill desks or those I've seen the cycling ones too so if you're looking for like physical exercise they have those as well but just even going from sit to stand is helpful yeah wobble chairs and Ed wble chairs is the surfboard thing we have that awesome that's have you stood on it oh yeah I'm into it it coffee cuz Rob came around the corner he was just using it as like when he was sitting and like a fidget foot fidget and then he saw me standing on he's like oh you could stand I like well you could do either one it's encouraging to be creative I have seen there on the subject of movement there are things you can get off of Amazon that will hook on to Airline seats that give your feet something to swing on for those who can't sit for a long times on airplanes don't your kiddos have a really cool I know that they're bigger now but when they are little yeah so explain this oh the whole thing into a couch so it's like a blow up shaped in the space like between the chair and so they just lay out on like this bougie bed so on a 7 hour flow you're just looking over and they're like stretching you're like to be a child again right I'm like you can't wake up cranky okay it's so funny yeah all of these examples they're basically just saying that you're you're creating micro environments so having that couch in a plane is a great example or having one um focus room that has a walking treadmill so you can check it out and take your your meeting while walking you know it's an option for you to do um or having a walking Track built into your office just walk around your office en jooy the views and talk to your coworker so micro environments was the next one and then the third one was supporting different levels of privacy social interactions which I was like okay different levels of privacy in social interactions and my mind immediately went to like your restaurant example right there's a lot going on it's very social but you have different choices of where you can sit the booth the center or what's ever left over which sometimes you know like if they put you in the center of the room and it's empty feels a little weird right mhm I been up why why can't I have the corner but if they put you in the center of the room and it's busy and activated it does not feel weird so it's kind of also your how social the location is they put you right next to the door and you're like thank you I like to be facing the door for safety issues or if it's cold then it's you're like get a breze all the time yep yeah if you're by a window or any of the HVAC units the fans on you're like yeah so creating an environment that caters to multiple different types of activities in that Social Hub um the last one or second to last one was uh to simplify wayf finding it's like yeah that's definitely it's like your airport example of finding the right share yeah and it also nods to like Universal Design right it's a lot of um Multicultural Syms for a reason yes and having our PI you know there's a there's not just words in a language there's pictures there's colors there's body language there's a lot of things that can happen um even lighting levels you know to direct your eye one way or don't look down here it's dark and gloomy just direct yourself to the bright lights shining above um but I thought that was a really great one to tie back to the fact that Universal Design is designing for all of these as well mhm so we have been slightly doing this for for a while and the last one was to have a larger focus on specifically enhancing Universal Design so looking at ways of Designing that's not like too limiting um and that might be an example would be like we have an ADA height countertop how many of us fit an ADA height countertop I do not I am too tall I just looked right at you yeah thank you so it's like okay well how can we design this location to accommodate multiple different sizes not just those in a wheelchair and those in a wheelchair that are six foot males that was the other thing it's like Universal Design had started with our veterans um coming out of our world wars that typically were 6 feet and male so a lot of these were designed to to accommodate them and there's more individuals now that need to have more promoted Comfort than back in our world war days not Conwood um so with those five sections of options for improvement do you is there like one thing that like Sparks out and you're like ah yes I'm going to do that tomorrow or I just did that I mean for me I'm I'm going to Dive Right In Here it kind of makes me a little a little mad that we have to say this ah yeah because like I don't care how neurod Divergent you are or how non- neurod Divergent you are there are some things that are sensible and good practices and design period hence Universal Design making it accessible for everyone I don't think that it's um we're we're getting past Antiquated however we're still Antiquated in the fact that we have to put a label to it I was like that's that's not the point if if you're creating a space that invites everyone and everything shouldn't it be second nature to think about those people who view the world as a as my mom always says as a heads up display versus a topographical map like think about the way that we do W finding it doesn't matter how you associate the way you think or the way you process the world should be open to you no matter what I agree completely tears man drink more wine can you repeat the five yeah so overall summary is the stimulation and naturalness MH then we have flexibility adjustability and opportunities for movement then we have supporting different levels of privacy in social situations simplifying wayfinding and then larger focus on Universal Design enhancements um the naturalness really hit me because I feel like because we can we do do a lot with technology and in our profession a lot you know it's hard not to do the shiny thing but I mean it's as simple as having an operable window so there's air flow or a personal fan or a task light I mean these don't have to be crazy moments that help neurode Divergent people feel more at ease and comforted um and so I guess it's kind of more the same of what I said to I used to be highly detailed which felt maybe more narcissistic in my earlier days like I know exactly how big of a book like all the tiny things you know I knew exactly what you needed and now it's like creating space that could become so many different things and keeping it to a natural texture I think it might freak people out if they were to touch something and this feels like plastic instead of wood so I think there's um very certain things we could just be um humble and like kind of purists about what we're doing the is important so pick up something you think looks like wooden it's not heavy enough right yeah well it's not even it's it's unnerving like Cara said it's like a mind puzzle I what this isn't right yeah doesn't feel Computing like the loading screen in your brain what is this sorry Ashley do you got any closing thoughts on that um I think the flexibility piece um is is kind of real hot Hot Topic right now anyway and a lot of the you know designs we're doing um to you know extend the life of that space too if you leave it more open you can do a lot more things with it and accommodate a lot um broader of a group of people you know it's not it's hard to do a one-size fits-all that really doesn't exist so being able to flex the space and create different things is yeah really important and I'm going to take a 180 degree spin here because researching the neurod Divergence you're finding people like Thomas Edison who we had talked about on a previous podcast and Albert Einstein and Henry Ford and all these really Monumental people in our history and I was like how how can I learn from them you know like reverse the almost the conversation and so there was kind of a cool little article on individual adjustments that we can do to be more detail orientated and better at math and time management and everything so I wanted to leave everybody with a couple personal things that we can do to be more like Mr Edison and Albert and Ford and some of those are if you are working in an open space just choose the low traffic area if you get distracted like that's simple to ask like you can't control your environment sometimes we're we're helping you to give you that autonomy and choice and control but that's not going to happen everywhere even in a restaurant right you want to I want to be in the corner Booth please just just ask um and then other things like visual checklists um I think scrum was a really good um process of managing a team that had a lot of different colors and sticky notes and ways to process information from one group to another and that was a really great example of how that brain worked which I thought was really interesting cuz that's data minded um another one would be breaking tasks up into like manageable pieces because a lot of us my hands raised uh get overwhelmed potentially with like one big ask that I almost have to like take the deep breath and go okay well to get there there's the goal where the sub goals so just being able to to break down the barrier to the thought process of getting there how do you eat an elephant how yeah yes how to eat an elant at a time yeah and another one that I just tried that I'm actually really excited to share with you is setting an alarm for like hyperfocus time versus non- hyperfocus time yes and it was amazing how much I got done it was like 30 minutes of focus 20 minutes of non-focus and You' be like wow that's like only 10 minute difference there I got so much more done probably than trying to focus for an hour interesting so it was setting a timer on my phone this doesn't have to be your phone but setting a timer for um anywhere between 20 and 45 minutes was the study to focus on something and you just can't do anything else but what you told yourself to focus on unless you're done of course if you finish the task yeah congratulations that's awesome um but you cannot break until that alarm goes off and when the alarm goes off you cannot start anything else work related for another 20 minutes and work related me like brain like I need my brain I could clean in my desk I could put the library materials away there's many things I could do but taking that 20 minutes to almost do the overhead things versus the work so it's kind of like those two buckets um and it like I said it was pretty amazing what um what I got done so I wanted to share those um tips with everybody uh and again I will put all of these links in our show notes because there's a lot of really great information um from a lot of different uh design companies universities um a lot of people are focusing on neurodiversity and I'm excited to uh talk more intently and deeply about it in education and transportation and Healthcare so until then we will sign off thank you for joining thank you thank you thanks everyone complim colors is a production of MCG explore design and architecture and interior design firm located in beautiful inor Alaska if you'd like to hear more more future episodes be sure to subscribe to complimentary colors wherever you find [Music] podcasts