my one regret is that I didn't do blood work in my early 20s I want my testosterone when I'm 120 to match what it should have been when I was 25 there just one problem when I was 26 my lab test showed that my testosterone was lower than my mother's you've heard of Bulletproof Coffee the diet the books the supplements he's the guy behind them he is the father of biohacking entrepreneur four-time New York Times bestselling author I'm talking about the one and only Dave aspry bioh hackey what is it it's the art and the science changes the environment around you and inside of you so you have control of your biology when you're in your 20s you seem to not really care about it so much but I know it was for me as soon as I got into my 30s all of a sudden I was like you're not Invincible anymore so this whole fresh fruits and vegetables they are the last thing you eat on your plate the steak is the first thing and if you've had all of your steak then you can have some salad we should be incredibly concerned about microplastics it's one of the biggest threats to the future of humans so if there was one thing you could track and you want to lose weight or muscle it's when you what's up guys and welcome back to First Things thirst we have Dave aspey in the building how are you doing I'm doing great you are also known as the father of biohacking it's quite a tile you have well I did invent the term my name's in the dictionary so I feel like I earned it but I'm not sure who the mother is yeah when when did it all saw the first blog post with the first definition of this just creating this idea was at the end of 2011 and in 2018 they added it to the English language mhm and where what was the first initial things that you were doing to to kind of well actually first of all let's go let's go back to the original definition of biohacking what is it it's the art and the science it changing the environment around you and inside of you so you have control of your biology what I was looking to do was so I've lost 100 lbs you're 50% of a body weight I'm about 4.8% body fat on my last scan uh so I was a beast and so I spent a lot of time in the gym I'm like why these like bodybuilders and weightlifters they know stuff that no one knows I was running a longevity nonprofit group in the late 90s with people I was under 30 and I'm learning from people in their 90s how they stay young because it was helping me with a bunch of Health stuff I had so I'm like how do I get the weightlifting Community the longevity community and the Neuroscience Community I've ront a neuroscience company now for about 11 years called 40 Years of Zen so like I want to be smarter I want to live for ever and I want to be strong and so how do I unite those and make it relevant for someone who's 20 right because who cares about Longevity if you're 20 and the uniting element was control over my biology so I don't want to be stressed I want to be focused I don't want to be fat you know it's all up to you and the second thing that mattered it's not just effort it's how do you set up the world around you because your body listens to things that you don't pay attention to like the light around you the the timing of your training or the timing of your me meal or temperature variations which oh it's cold or hot but it turns out it sends a profound signal into your biology like how do I set up the environment so that everything's easy and then how do I make the changes either mentally emotionally or physically starting inside my cells moving up to things like ligaments or muscles or mitochondria or cardio or cognitive because you and I may not have the same goals it's like what's your goal and what's the path and the path is not just internal it's outside of you and that was the big biohacking thing that gave everyone power that's why it's now a global movement with tens of millions of people yeah is right what you're saying when uh when you're in your 20s you seem to not really care about it so much but I noed for me as soon as I got into my 30s all of a sudden I was like you just start to notice these little signs that you're not Invincible anymore like you can't just go into the gym and start you know lifting your working set weight like you got to spend a little bit more time warming up you have to spend a little bit more time stretching you can't get away with eating garbage like you used to be able to get away with and you just for me at least I want to live the best quality of life for as long as I possibly can do see that's the normal path my path was different so my career in Silicon Valley I made $6 million when I was 26 years old um these were pre- Biden dollars so they were worth a lot back then and then uh I lost it when I was 28 but my brain was not working and I'd hit 300 pounds when I was 23 I had arthritis when I was 14 diagnosed in my knees before I was 30 I had pre-diabetes high risk of stroke and heart attack chronic fatigue syndrome fibromyalgia just all the the worst things so it's almost like I was 70 before I was 30 and that's why I'm hanging out with these people in their 70s who are getting younger like just tell me what to do and I realized that the things that make old people young make young people powerful and I could never get anyone under 60 to come to these meetings of like the top anti-aging Professionals in the world and we're four minutes from Google's headquarters in Silicon Valley so I said I have to rename the longevity industry something that's useful for everyone something that would have attracted me when I was a teenager and that's what biohacking became so to reverse all of those things and to be able to have a brand that can effortlessly focus um I don't get jet lag I'm never hungry I am as lean as I've ever been in my life and because I use AI for my exercise I spend a very small amount of time for it and I'm kind of like my life yeah so it's almost like you have to put in like the least amount of effort to get the maximum results it it's really funny I face some push back like there's some guys especially in the US are like well if you're not willing to out for two hours a day every day I'm like hold on a second here when I was 23 I went to the gym 90 minutes a day 6 days a week half weights half cardio and the cardio is 15° incline with a weighted vest all of it and I never lost a pound after 18 months I could Max all but two of the machines and I'm sure I was Stronger I know I was but I I didn't lose an inch on my waist and I never lost a pound and I was overtrained my cortis levels were high my my testosterone was tanked and my thyroid was tanked and all the things that happen when you overtrained so like wait a minute there is no moral benefit saying I worked hard is did you get results it's sort of like you're in a business you're saying well we could have just had one sales guy sell $10 million but we wanted to work hard so we hired a hundred sales guys to sell the same amount you'd be like get out of here so how do I make every single movement every single second of time that I spend doing something to improve give me the most results because that means I have more time to do other things that could be around I learning to meditate or could be around spending time with family 8% and this is data from the US I don't have global data on this but 8% of Americans exercise as much as the government says they should and I believe that a lot of the other people are actually OV exercising because they they're hitting it hard every day in the gym and they're not recovering so when I opened the first biohacking center in Santa Monica underneath H Sports L's office about 10 years ago it's called upgrade labs I brought all this weird recovery Tech in and what I found over the years is that 80% of transformation physically and mentally comes from recovering faster so it's not about doing more work it's about doing the right intense work to wake up the body say you might want to get stronger and then recovering faster than you could in Mother Nature so the body said I got a signal to grow and I had an environment where I'm not stressed and I had adequate protein animal protein usually I had adequate minerals and maybe some carbs so if you have those in place and your hormones are where they should be it doesn't take a lot of work so I just wanted to set myself up for success with the least possible work so what what's the typical week look like for you in terms of your training in terms of my training I spend 20 minutes a week on my training oh okay I was not expecting that no and I'm so I'm not as big as you right you know I'm 52 caffeine by the way but I'm reasonably lean and ripped and I'm spending half my time on airplanes I just got here I have ridiculous ABS I'm on the cover of my upcoming book with my shirt off and I was a obese person if you look there's a few men's magazines in my shirts off you can see stretch marks from when I was fat yeah and if I can do it it's going to be way easier for almost everyone because I I was the fat computer hacker from Jurassic Park one you know I I was pretty unhealthy so 20 minutes a week what am I doing well I'm doing a protocol designed by AI at upgrade Labs so I have a million dooll Lab at my house we have 32 locations in the US and Canada and looking to expand globally when I'm doing resistance training I have a machine we call the AI machine and it's measuring when I start to fail and it backs off just a little bit I have that right and so it's really hard it's really hard and so it's always pushing as hard as you can and if you just fail a little bit it doesn't drop the weight it's not like having a spotter and as soon as my speed slows down if this all tracking thousands of data points a second I'm standing on Force plate so it's very um it's very AI driven and very digital and it means if I'm lifting more with my left or my right it's going to correct things for me and it's brutal to be honest I did uh it was maxing out on leg press I did a row I think I did a bicep and a tricep exercise MH and I think that was it and I was like blown out yeah and the following few days I was actually sore after that I was so surprised Mark Bell came up to my place uh years ago on Vancouver Island when I was uh doing my research up there uh same thing really really sore and the Innovations we've had since probably the the unit that you used there's a camera watching you and because you're standing on plates and you're doing your various cable exercises or whatever we have such fine grain control over the beh behavior of the resistance that um your body doesn't know what to do so we're so finely tuned you pick up a barbell or something and it's accelerating at 9.8 m/s squared if you remember High School physics right so the force of gravity and maybe a dumbbell is a better example so you're holding it and it wobbles now the proprioceptors are like their own intelligence inside the elbow inside the wrist inside the muscles and they're saying this is getting heavier at a constant rate because we're so used to gravity for two billion years of evolution right so we know how to deal with it and it says well if you try to lift anymore if there's a little bit of wobbling I could get injured so it turns off your ability to apply power M well if you're resisting against a force that doesn't act like Gravity the pro receptors that are going to turn off your power they don't get to turn off so you can push yourself without getting injured but you can push yourself much further which allows a faster stimulus and what I found over and over in different systems in the body is it's the rate that you turn on a stressor and the rate that you turn it off that's what drives change it's not the amount of work that you do it's not training volume it's training intensity and Recovery intensity and that's what's different about upgrade labs and the whole approach here and this works for I would say 90% of systems I've found in the body they're listening to if you're a math nerd it's the derivative which which is the angle of the curve they're not listening to the integral which is the area under the curve but the way we think more is better the way I thought in the gem so I'm like how do I reduce training volume increase training intensity increase recovery intensity which isn't even a variable that most sports science looks at they'll look at some recovery but not in the same study and then you end up going oh maybe there's a way to do less work and get more results and that means I can do other work and that's why at upgrade Labs we have neuro feedback you can train brain in the time you bought back if you if you're on a strength day versus a cardio day and on the cardio days cardio's dumb uh what what Define cardio what type long distance cardio I remember I was long running or walking long walking is actually good for you um when I was 16 I was desperate to lose weight so I would ride 25 miles a day I don't know if that is in kilometers but a decent ride had a mountain bike had a canondale road bike I couldn't lose any weight from that it takes so much time it actually stresses you out it reduces ejection fraction in the heart but I just believed it would work if I could just go for a longer ride I'll lose weight it just it doesn't work like that so where we are today if you did a spin class for an hour a day five days a week um that would be my idea of Hell by the way but yeah so if you did that in studies you're going to improve your V2 Max by 2% is that it that's a terrible return on investment if you do 15 minutes a week of the AI stuff that we're doing in upgrade Labs you'll improve by 12% if you spend the amount of time doing cardio that you spend brushing your teeth every week you get a 12% Improvement in BO2 Max which is equal to two additional years of lifespan in correlation studies yeah so I just got rid of the need to do this chronic cardio stuff because it doesn't work and I swore to myself after that time in the gym after having been a vegan and seeing what it did to my health I'm only going to do stuff that works I'm going to track it so if I can cut my cardio by 94% to get similar results I'll do that and of course I'm going to go for a walk that's not cardio going for a walk is mostly just movement yeah what's the story with the uh the tattoo well when I was 22 the internet didn't have web browsers so I'm letting you know my age that's my calendar age not my biological age and I sold the world's first product ever sold over the internet and it was a t-shirt that said caffeine my drug of choice with this molecule on it and I mean I started bulletproof which was a major Coffee Company I have nothing to do with a new coffee company it's called danger coffee but caffeine and coffee have been oh thanks man uh they've been a just a through story in my life and you look at cognitive enhancement which is really where I started and all this I seen my brain just start working again because I was going to get fired from my job so caffeine and nicotine are Mother Nature's two original cognitive enhancing performance drugs and they've been used around the world my books have been written on them most great books are written on cigarettes and coffee and far fewer on pot or alcohol MH so these are performance enhancers so I just got the tattoo because um even though tattoos are bad for you technically it just seemed like it was worth it what do people tend to get wrong about caffeine cuz I remember at one point everyone was really saying okay for the first 90 minutes of the day you should avoid caffeine consumption and I thought really cuz that's like I don't want to wait 90 minutes to have a coffee I want to wake up and have my coffee but I think that has now been debunked it it's hard to kind of debunk something because there's usually multiple lenses to look at something M so here's the real deal with c in the morning if you're someone who naturally wakes up at 5:00 a.m. and you're super bright and happy well number one everyone hats you number two you should wait 90 minutes to have your coffee okay that's because your circadian window is so early right you don't need to advance it but if you are someone who wakes up at 7 or8 and you're kind of groggy it's actually good for you to have coffee early on so if you're super awake before everyone else wait on your coffee if you wake up and you're tired have have your coffee and people say but it's going to spike your cortisol which do you think is more dangerous High cortisol or low cortisol you want your more dangerous High cortisol for an extended period of time believe it or not low cortisol for an extended period of time is four times more deadly than high cortisol really yeah cortisol is a life-saving hormone and you need it to adapt to stress it's also bad if it's too high so there's a goldilock zone for cortisol and it's not the same at every time of the day right there a daily cortisol curve and like when you train an exercise it would be spiked it should Spike if it doesn't then you need to take cortisol because your adrenals are blown out and you won't be able to adapt you know old bodybuilders used to take CF bi bioidentical cortisol so that they could recover faster from training because they couldn't raise their cortisol high enough to deal with the damage they're doing to their muscles in fact some people still do that I'm not opposed to using cortisol to not get jet lag right so there's a daily curve though if you're laying down you're going to have a lower cortisol and right before you wake up if everything works right your body is going to start producing cortisol because when you sit up and stand up if you don't have higher blood pressure you would pass out H your head and a tiger would ate you so there's a morning cortisol Spike that's necessary and a lot of people don't have it so if you're walking around going oh I feel like crap I got to roll out of bed maybe the fact that caffeine has a small effect on increasing cortisol is good for you not bad for you mhm do you uh are you the type of person that can consume it later on in the day and have no issues falling asleep I have to stop at 2 o00 2 o' and the difference there is how your liver processes it's called trimethyl xanthine is the chemical name of caffeine and some people are fast metabolizers most people are normal and some people are slow so there are a few people who cannot have coffee or caffeine in any form because it just sticks around for a day most people it's between 12 and 2 and you have to stop and won have any effect on your sleep and having an espresso before bed I probably could do that and go to sleep I've been tracking my sleep for 17 years because I was so bad at sleeping and I know very well if I have coffee ring oh this is an ultrahuman oh shoot my Ora is charging I'm testing out two different Rings right now and I was CTO of the first company to get heart rate from the wrist uh which is called bases so what your Apple watch or your whoop does today the first company to do that was my company okay so I've been a nerd tracking the body for a long time and which which device do you think is doing the best job at the moment obviously I'm going to be biased towards woot but I think a lot of them have their pros and cons and then just going off your heart rate alone is often really not enough to really get a true picture of what's going on it's funny the president of upgrade Labs my my fitness company was the COO at Orange Theory and orange theory made their whole business based on you're going to change your heart rate heart rate isn't that useful knowing when your heart rate drops at night is a measure of recovery but the most important measure of all for heart rate is heart rate variability yeah and this has nothing to do with how many beats per minute it's how are they spaced out over the minute yeah and I was an adviser to the heart math Institute back in I think 2008 the first company that really did the research on this so if there was one thing you could track and you want to lose weight or put on muscle it's when you wake up in the morning what's your recovery score which is based primarily on heart rate variability yeah and this is a magical number it doesn't matter if the source of stress is your girlfriend broke up with you circadian stress could be that you drank the night before it could be that you're getting sick it could be that you trained but if you're not recovered when you wake up that's not a time to go do a heavy leg day you're going to hate your life and you won't build muscle so knowing that number it's like oh I sucked at sleeping in recovery last night maybe I could change my environment or my behaviors so that I can recover better so I can be ready to hit the gym yeah and that makes a giant difference in results it it's it's sort of like you know do you want to go do like the best performance of your life when you didn't sleep the night before of course you don't want to do that but sometimes we don't think of the gym as it has to be done under the right state to get the results you want yeah that's what I do I based on my previous scores of HRV I will then decide how how hard is the session going to be like am I going to go for my PB today or not cuz when I've got a low HRV and I'm not just not feeling it it would not make sense for me to try and max out because my body can't handle it risk of injury is going to be too high and then you you've got so much wisdom in that when I was younger I'm like I am going to use my willpower and I'm just going to push through it I'm going to grind and I did I'd sleep two hours a night if I had to I would not miss the gym I was fanatical about it and it was not good for me not at all it probably made me age more quickly even back then so knowing that you can match the stimulus same with intermittent fasting and cold exposure and all the other biohacks that I popularized if you're blown out from the night before you probably shouldn't do a 24-hour fast and you know a six-hour gold plunge or whatever crazy things people are trying to do here those are all stressors and it's not that we can't handle massive stress like you and I both have amazing resilience do we want to handle that stress and tap into our resilience and not get results because we did that or do we want to save the resilience for you putting out wildfires in California or something or doing something that really matters and then apply the right stimulus for the amount of Stress Management that I can uh that I can do without pushing into my reserves and that way you're cognitively powerful all day and you don't lose your testosterone your thyroid doesn't get disregulated uh you don't get like loss of libido and all the things that happen when you just dip into your reserves over and over and over yeah yes it's picking and I mean I have uh my routine which I follow and I'm sure a lot of people have their own routines and particularly with I know there's certain sessions which are going to be more demanding than others so based on how I've slept how the day has been the order in which I will do those sessions is never the same it changes every week yeah that's brilliant yeah and I think because of the way I train as well like I'm I'm lifting heavy weights it's important for me to be smart about it cuz I'm 34 years old now I know the the risk of injury does elevate a little bit it does so the big sessions with the big lifts I will do on the days when I've had the best recovery and I think most people seem to don't they don't really understand that if I could go back in time and tell myself a great piece of advice it would be exactly that is that you don't have to push yourself to the max every single day but I firmly believed that if I worked harder I would get better results M and it doesn't work like that oh you asked me favorite device and I talked about HRV but if you're interested in Fitness primarily the whoop is your best bet from what I've seen if you're interested in ease I think the ultra human is actually beating Aura and I've used an aura for seven or eight years I used to sleep with a headband before that that was it's not Victoria Secret approved we'll put it that way so the ultr human seems to be better at Fitness and circadian biology than the aura and at least as good at sleep and hrb so my aura is charging but my ultra humans on what else uh since we're we're on a topic of caffeine uh what else can you do to improve your cognitive function oh man well the the whole concentrated notes are my book called headstrong which is a New York time science bestseller about the brain there's two aspects to cognitive function that I think people would benefit from one is that if you can increase your mitochondrial function and working out to a certain extent does that that's going to increase your cognition just your brain uses 20% of your electricity if you're concentrating so you might as well be good at making electricity it would follow you'd be smarter the second thing is neuroplasticity and there's a bunch of supplements and compounds you can use that increase neuroplasticity it turns out so does exercise so you want to increase bdnf which is brain derived neut Tropic factor and you can do something like in fasting work out at the end of it eat a bunch of protein um coffee is good for the brain in fact coffee is good for the liver very specifically even more than the brain but if you use espresso or pour over with a metal filter the coffee oils are shown to reduce inflammation in the brain anytime you reduce brain inflammation you increase cognitive function things like omega-3 fish oils which are in your supplement those are shown in studies to improve cognitive function and then there are Pharmaceuticals that work really well mhm in terms of caffeine intake is there a is there kind of an upper limit for most people it's 400 milligrams from all sources in a day where quite a lot it is quite a lot I don't I mean you would have to have how many cups of coffee would you need to have if you going to do that it depends a lot on how it's brewed yeah so even if you were to go to you know industrial Starbucks Coffee the per Cub variance can be 30 40% on the caffeine so generally drip coffee has more and espresso has less so drinking the is a good idea so you get the coffee oils and you get a little bit less caffeine so you can have more coffee yeah studies show that five normal size cups of coffee so five 80 milligrams of caffeine cups of coffee a day increasing benefits on reducing all cause mortality so in studies more coffee you drink up to five cups the less likely you are to die from anything and if you look at just Google coffee and insert name of disease because it helps mitochondria It generally reduces risk of all kinds of things and then with danger coffee which is my second big innovation in coffee we had a therapeutic dose of trace minerals Ultra trace minerals and electrolytes you can't taste them but your body goes like this is really good coffee it is good coffee but the minerals make it HIIT differently because it absorbs with electrolytes mhm so I've been thinking a lot about how do I make every cup of coffee count and you can even do decaf if you want to the study show decaf coffee has those same longevity benefits but caffeine has other metabolic benefits so I would say space it out and in fact coffee is a pre-workout there's really good evidence for it yeah well I've seen some studies that are saying it's actually more beneficial than the actual pre-workout supplements I mean it's I mean first of all the reason why I would always favorite is because it's it's it's just a coffee bean it's a it's in its natural state you look at the ingredient list of a pre-workout formula it's like what the I can't even pronounce half of the things and not to mention I mean some of these pre-workouts have like 300 to 400 milligrams of caffeine in them and what I noticed is the I feel the effects of it for the rest of the day like I'm far too wired like I I find it very difficult after a workout to then relax that's not good for your nervous system you don't need that do you know about how mtor works is that something you've covered on the show before no not on the show no oh my gosh this is one of those areas why I wanted to make biohacking a thing because longevity doctors understand mtor but very few in the weightlifting or gym Community understand the importance of this so in the longevity world mtor is kind of a bad molecule because it causes tissue growth you might get cancer if mtor is high all the time well if you wanted to put on muscle you need to temporarily Spike and mtor and intor is like a spring in the body the more you suppress it the more the body is going to give you a bunch so what are the things that push mtor Downs to get a surge one of them is intermittent fasting another one is coffee and another one is exercise especially weights so don't eat at night skip breakfast go to the gym fasted I know there's there's all sorts of arguments on both sides I'm talking specifically about mtor it doesn't have to be long fast you go to the gym fasted and you work out and as soon as you're done working out ideally within 30 minutes even less you have animal protein and carbs now if you do this you've taken three different mechanisms to suppress mtor so you're going to get a surge of mtor and then the protein is present when you stop exercising so when the mtor sends a signal to build tissue you can build tissue because you had some carbs your insulin went up and there's a reason I gf1 insulin like growth factor right this is why you'd want some carbs after the workout the reason you want protein after the workout is that if you work out and you don't have protein right away you will get a 24 to 48 hour cortisol Spike that's not beneficial so lifting and not eating is it just doesn't work as well yeah but if you stack all those up which is coffee fasting exercise then protein and carbs you're maximizing your mtor Spike and the benefits and you're getting the effects of the carbohydrate M and some people vegans I doubt you have a lot of vegans who are trying to go to the gym because they get injured very easily but if you um if you were a vegan some of them will say well you should have vegan protein because it doesn't raise mtor know you actually want to raise mtor if you want to put on muscle old people who always have low mtor they usually have lower testosterone and lower thyroid no wonder do they get sarcopenia that's bad for you so this is a complex answer but it makes a lot of sense and if you say like I don't want to work out fasted then don't but still have the coffee yeah I've I've trained fastters like fairly regularly and especially if I'm going to for whatever reason I have a busy day and the any time I can go to the gym is first thing in the morning I will train faster because the last thing I want first of all I'm not that hungry when I wake up second of all if I consume a meal and then try to train after that I feel terrible especially if I'm going to train legs I'm probably see that meal again so it's maybe it won't make sense for me to do the most demanding session of the week fasted I could save that for another time yeah that's fine but you can still have a very good session but obviously assuming that your glycogen stores are fairly replenished from consuming carbohydrates and if you need to maybe you could have some int workout carbohydrates to help you towards the end of the session I don't think you need to have your glycogen stores in place you don't think so not if your body can metabolize ketones and you could do it in ketosis being in ketosis for long periods of time is bad for you that was the whole point of my first big nutrition book The bulletproof diet people lost more than a million pounds on it and 3/4 of a million copies sold and it was the first big intermittent fasting book and the whole point is go in ketosis for brief periods of time then go out because unending ketosis especially with intense exercise is just not a great strategy for most people what that means is if you wanted to teach your body to use fat more effectively before you go into workout you could use some MCT oil in your coffee I'm kind of well known for doing that MCT oil directly converts to ketones in the body you could also take a ketone supplement like a ketone dial and as long as you have ketones above 0.6 in your blood when you work out you can still be quote fasted but when there are ketones present and there's demand for energy the mitochondria are going to actually change how they work with something called acetyl coenzyme so that they more effectively burn fat so if you work out fasted with ketones present that's an interesting thing and you need to have depleted glycogen for that to work how long how long does it take you to get into ketosis well a few days depends if you're cheating or not so if you want to go into metabolic ketosis for me it's probably a day because I have a flexible metabolism for most people it's 3 or 4 days faster if you just don't eat anything carbon take below 100 gr oh no to go into ketosis probably 15 gram okay and you have to limit your protein too and this is one of the problem it's quite a difficult thing you're going to eat 80% of your calories from fat if you really want to go in or you're not going to eat at all and if you're trying to keep muscle mass and you don't eat anything or you don't eat very much protein because it also turns into carbohydrate via gluconeogenesis like crap if I got to keep my blood sugar low I'm going to lose muscle mass over time and now some keto Bros uh respect guys uh they're going to say well there's studies showing you can be kosis and not lose muscle mass yes I've done that too it's just hard yeah so what would you do you would just take some ketones exogenously so you just have a supplement now your body goes oh look my mitochondria are equally equipped to burn ketones or to burn glycogen or sugar and when you have both options available because you you trained your cells to do both when you go into ketosis you'll drop fat faster I was always so surprised the amount of question that I would get about bro do you do you do a keto diet or or should I should I do it and I'm like look you you're clearly in a position where it's hard enough for you just to go to the gym and eat a normal healthy diet do you really think that you actually trying to follow the true keto approach is going to be sustainable for you like there's no way you're going to be able to do that why are you trying to make it so complicated for yourself this is part of the the story I don't know if I've ever talked about this so in the the 90s I'm I'm desperately fat I'm trying to do all these health problems and I'm going to the gym and I got into the original Kito diet called the Atkins diet and I lost 50 of the 100 pounds I needed to lose relatively easily and the other 50 would not go away it took 10 years to figure out all the metabolic details and what was going on with that and I go to these you know Atkins low carb conferences and there were enormously fat people there and and be like you know full respect here it doesn't look like it's working very much right and and you know the guy really friendly was oh no it's wored great I lost 100 lb I used to be 400 lb now I'm only 300 lb and like well how long have you been at 300 well last two years I just know I really I eat 12 grams of carbs a day if I could just get down to five grams I know it would work because it worked before and it doesn't work so I wrote the bulletproof diet so here's what I've learned the type of fat and the type of protein matter dramatically in kosis and you don't go in ketosis really for more than a week usually go in out in out or go Carnival for a month I don't care that's fine but if you do it unendingly you will get leaky gut ruin your sleeve and Spike your cortisol and yes I did that to myself when I was stress testing the bulletproof diet so what you want to do is just go in out in out and eat the right fats and the right proteins and all of a sudden it's so easy and people who do that generally keep their muscle mass yeah uh in other words have pancakes on Saturday like it's okay mhm talk to me a little bit about blood work first of all who should be doing it is there a specific age at which people should start doing it okay I've spent $2 and a half million dollars over the last 20 years reversing my age and I've done insane amounts of blood work my one regret is that I didn't do blood work in my early 20s the reason that you need to get a metabolic panel and you need to get a a sex hormone panel especially when you're young is you need to know what your numbers are when you're young so the range of what amount of testosterone makes you feel good can be very very large there are some people who just feel great with testosterone at 600 and they have muscle mass and things are great and there are other people who need to be at, 1500 is this the total or free uh this is total um uh free I keep it around 20 but same thing some people are going to be okay at 16 some are going to be at 24 um my target for people I work with is I want you to be above 20 no one can get there without supplementation at this point because of whatever we did to the world around us like there's a huge decline in testosterone everywhere yeah but if you measure when you're young and healthy now you have a range and you want to keep that level even when you're 100 my stated public goal I'm going to live to at least 180 and be highly functional the entire time and probably a lot longer but hey I'm I'm okay to die at a time and buy a choice of my own so I want my testosterone when I'm 120 to match what it should have been when I was 2 there just one problem when I was 26 my lab test showed that my testosterone was lower than my mother's this actually happened it's not ideal no and this is what happens when you have a lot of white fat because fat makes estrogen and aromatizes testosterone and I keep mine around 20 right now so you just have to get this and if you're a woman listening to the show your numbers are different than a man where you are in your cycle matters but you also need to know testosterone and the other sex hormones particularly progesterone MH the other one that everyone needs is thyroid we have an epidemic of low thyroid and a lot of times people will go to the doctor and the doctor says oh they didn't even do the right task say oh it's within range you're normal say it's not within range it's at the low end of the range and I have all the symptoms of not having a thyroid like you see the thin part of my eyebrow out here that's a sign that I was hypothyroid for a long periods of time as a kid the outer part of your eyebrows like thin and you get all of these other symptoms so if you're listening to this and you're cold all the time and your friends aren't you have a thyroid problem that's just what it is and you start taking a little bit of thyroid in the morning before your coffee and all of a sudden your brain wakes up and I remember when I first got testosterone and thyroid because I was clinically deficient in both I was like I got my life back and there's so many people who are struggling at the gym they've never done a lab test they're low on zinc they're low on Omega-3s and they're low on testosterone and you can try to take the zinc on Omega-3s eat a bunch of egg yolks and liver and get your sleep and maybe if you're a genetic freak your testosterone will go up so much except you're still soaked in microplastics and fragrances and artificial lighting and those all suppressed testosterone so if you want to put it to where it should have been for your grandfather you're probably going to have to add testosterone to your life there's no reason not to do that do you oh I've been on testosterone since I was 26 I went off TT TT bioidentical not the you know anabolic stuff in the I um I did go off for 2 years when I was developing the bulletproof diet with the exercise and nutritional recommendations to see how much I could raise my testosterone using biohacking I could get up to 700 I don't remember my free testosterone back then but that was not enough yeah so I Target for me around 1300 feels best with a free testosterone of 20 yeah it's a regret I have as well because I I don't think I ever did a test wow in my 20s yeah and then up until I turned 30 I was like what I am just go I don't even know what my body needs or what my levels are at and I would randomly just go to a supplement store and just oh well probably I'll get a bit of this get this get this here's some Tribulus it'll help my testosterone you don't even know if you need testosterone it's it's partly because of supplement marketing and in the in the gym Community you know power Gainer 5,000 there's all these crazy brands that have have happened uh even going back as far as the 90s without a lot of claims and with a lot of junk ingredients and then with the rise of biohacking functional medicine functional nutrition there's been a a big shift towards clean label like what kind of protein is it and why does it need neutr wheat which affects electricity in the brain why does it need an artificial color thing in it especially in the US they're using chemicals that are illegal in Europe and they just put them in there to make it bright red and I don't care what color my protein powder is I just want it to be healthy so clean label highly functional the if you don't know what you need cuz you didn't run a lab test you're probably doing it wrong yeah what would you say is some of the most overrated supplements that people consume the most overrated supplement that I've ever heard of is seos you know about this stuff yeah yeah it it's it just drives me crazy by the way when I was a raw vegan before I learned better I did eat seos so I'm not saying anything I wouldn't say about myself when I Didn't Know Better seamoss People Say oh it's full of minerals yes and they're bound up in a matrix so you can't absorb them and seos is mostly kagene in which is an industrial ingredient that shreds the lining of your gut similar to the way glued in other grains can so healthy people are looking to get kagene in out of their processed food and vegans who want to be healthy the way I did they're adding it in because minerals even though the minerals aren't bioavailable most plants will steal your minerals and they'll actually create problems with bone density with calcification in your muscles uh and any sight of injury the second supplement that just drives me insane green smoothies oh green powers green powders it is it is so wrongheaded so it's good job this podcast isn't sponsored by ag1 you wanna yeah no kidding right you want to know what's funny you know Diary of a CEO so I recorded this great episode with Stephen and I talked about eating animal protein versus plant but huel is their largest sponsor they killed the episode and never published it because of economic interests and I've done a lot of top podcast I was like Stephen man come on like we could have talked about something else if you wanted but when economic interest could out I don't know I I was a little surprised but it's like what happens is we have good intentions so when I was a vegan I bought all the green stuff I blended the crap out of it in my giant blender and I had the steamer and sprouter actually I didn't have a steamer I had a juicer and a sprouter and you're like what is going on because I had a story about enzymes I had a story about bioavailability it just wasn't a real story and it didn't work I shattered three teeth I to go to the dentist just I would eat something just this is a sign of massive mineral deficiency despite the fact that I'm well educated and I was you know sprouting and overnight soaking I did all the things you're supposed to do I took handfuls of supplements too and what's happening is something called oxalate you know about oxalate M this is one of the most important Trends over the next three years in nutrition that you're going to hear about 70% of kidney stones are caused by plants not by eating meat not by drinking beer and when you eat foods high in oxalate they form razor sharp microscopic calcium crystals they cause kidney stones they cause damage to the urethra and anywhere you've had an injury they go there first and then starts to hurt so you eat a meal high in oxalate you have no idea you did that and you wake up the next morning and you got like muscle tension your back hurt your knees are stiff because you've hurt your knees and that one place where you sprained your wrist or something it hurts just I'm achy today and my Skin's kind of puffy and you think it's just life it's just you well we know which foods are high in these and I ate an insane amount of these Foods when I was a vegan your body can excrete 200 milligrams a day and one green smoothie can have up to 1.5 gram of oxalate in it the beginning lethal dose of oxalate is 5 gram there are people who have gone to the hospital and died after 10day green smoothie cleanses D the worst offenders spinach kale beets almonds raspberries and sadly chocolate well so how do we know I think this is one of the hardest things that people struggle with is is trying to navigate well what are the what leafy greens and vegetables should I consume and in what quantity should I have them uh whole food like not Blended up so just have them in their natural state what combination of them should I have should I just have a when I go shopping just have a variety of different colors in my food basket and just mix it up as the day goes alone to answer this I'm going to use one of Mother Nature's other cognitive enhancers 3 migam of nicotine nice it's going to be a good answer yes do you like SNS by the way um I do but sometimes they have um they have flavor enhancers or sweeteners I don't like this is nicotine in Xylitol so and I have no affiliation just a brand I found online um Lucy gum is actually the one that I usually have but I had these someone gave them to me so I'll do it SN makes same on oh n it's okay yeah you want to clean one SN makes me feel so sick if I have that it's one of the nothing makes me feel sick but snu or smoking too many cigars that'll make me feel sick yeah you probably just need to to use it for 10 minutes and then take it out my longevity dose for nicotine as a neuroprotective agent is up to 5 milligrams a day and a cigarette can have up to 20 milligrams okay so it's low dose and depending on what brand isness you're using um it could be one it could be two or three and above that it's performance enhancement at a certain point we don't really know what it's probably not as good for you yeah but if you don't want to get Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and you want to have really good dopamine function there's an argument for lowd dose nicotine yeah okay but we're going to talk about what the heck do you do with a grocery store imagine going back in time you're a caveman did you eat the rainbow of 50 different fruits and vegetables every single day no so I built a regenerative Farm on Bank of rid and I raise plants a variety of plants and cows and pigs and sheep and chickens and turkeys full regeneration of the ecosystem restore a gravel pit like I did this for 10 years so this is where I raise my kids I'm I'm talking from Deep experience there is no time of the year when all of those colors are available if you're eating that kind of thing it's flown in from all over the world because blueberries are a fall thing in Northern climates and if you're eating blueberries in July they're from Peru or some somewhere there it's not a natural thing to do you couldn't eat raspberries for more than about two or three weeks of the year because they're only ripe for a narrow window of time and if you want to get six weeks of raspberries you plant five different varieties that ripen one week apart from each other that's what we did in our farm before I stopped eating raspberries so all of these things like wow wait it was never available whates makes me think I have to do that it's marketing from the state of California where they can actually sell those so this whole fresh fruits and vegetables they are the last thing you eat on your plate the steak is the first thing and if you've had all of your steak then you can have some salad right or you can have some carbs and if you don't have the carbs of the plants nothing bad will happen and if you wanted to be really healthy you would put Rosemary oregano and Thyme on your steak because the amount of beneficial plant compounds like polyphenols and those is a thousand times higher than in your stupid spinach right the spinach is going to cause damage to the lining of your stomach you ever eat raw spinach salad and feel that rough thing on your teeth yeah yeah that's oxalate crystals forming on your teeth you do not need that inside your veins and well I'll tell you what as well if I try and overdo it with the uh the greens with the vegetables the salads I blo and I can't stop farting oh there's that too nobody needs that it's a sign that something's bad and what vegans will say and I say this as a former vegan they'll tell you well you just need to get used to it no you don't and people around you don't need to get used to it either and it's true you will over six weeks of time develop more enzymes that are hard for humans to make so what I would just say is when you're going to go shopping pick a couple vegetables because that's probably what you would have done as a caveman or something like that so get some broccoli or cauliflower throw away the the fancy ones the the spinen and the kale lettuce is far less irritating to the God and none of them have useful minerals in them because oxalate steals calcium it steals zinc it is in the plants so that if you eat the plants you won't get the benefits of the plants plants don't want to get eaten right so arugula lettuce are safe throughout the raspberries eat the blueberries right there's some easy swaps and this is the sad thing sweet potatoes which I've been a fan of historically and regular potatoes are high in oxalate if you were to toss those and you were to eat white rice you're getting the same amount of carbohydrate but you're not getting any toxins to speak of white rice is the safest source of starch and this is going to be really controversial I would rather in Europe anyway or out here I would rather have I me eat 100 grams of carbs I'd rather have 100 grams of white flour than 100 grams of sweet potato I've never said that before in the US white flour is garbage and toxic and you shouldn't eat it I don't think gluten is good for you however when you take the outer part of the grain off and you make it not whole wheat but white flour you're removing all the toxins that's why we've always made white flour that's why we take brown rice and make it into white rice because it has less toxins in it so you would feed the whole wheat and the brown rice to The Peasants the very poorest people because who cares if they get toxins they got some calories from that outer part that had all the plant PL toxins a lot more arsenic a lot more gut irritants and all of this oxalate beats a lot of people who are in the gym are saying well I eat a lot of beets because I want nitric oxide beets are super high in oxalate so got sore joints these crystals can form in your brain they can form on the lining of your nerves they form in your joints God things are kind of crunchy beets are not a very effective way of raising nitric oxide mhm you could do what professionals do Take 5 or 6 milligram of Calis every day that will raise your nitric oxide levels and keep them pegged for a long period of time it's a longevity drug when you do it that way yeah is there any downsides of doing that with the Calis no you'll just live longer literally it's a longevity drug to reduce cialisis it has to be low dose we're talking five milligrams this is a micro dose yeah full dose Calis is not we can get the 20 Mig I think is 20 the biggest I don't know the biggest I don't use it Recreation I just use it for longevity okay um and if if you take the big doses you'll often times notice that your sinuses swell up because you have a retile tissue in your sinuses the same stuff that's in other erectile areas so that's a sign you might have had a lot we're talking a quarter of one of those pills if you do that regularly you might have some veins like these veins are decent um I've noticed if I Havoc too close to bed time I end up breae out my mouth all night don't you tape your mouth at night no do you know about mouth taping I've heard of it oh my God but I think this is I want to talk about this as well because maybe my nose is not operating the way it should do but I noticed there's always one nostril that's clear the other one isn't now is that normal yeah it turns out there's a 19-minute cycle where the dominant nostril will become dominant M it's part of our unknown circadian biology it's not even circadian because it's not on daily we'll just say it's a bio rhythm that happens so every 19 minutes it swaps this is why uh when you do like a yoga pranama exercise you ever seen people doing like the nose on little finger breathing in and out one nostril alternate nostril breathing um you're doing that because it changes hemispheres of the brain and you're overriding that dominant nostril thing I thought I had a a deviated septum and I was like oh man I'm going to have to get it operated on unless it's really severe probably not yeah what happens is for Sleep taping you get a special tape that's not too sticky and you put it over just the middle of your mouth so it's like this but you could still talk out the side of your mouth and that way when you're asleep your lips are together which forces you to breathe through your nose and you go but I can't breathe through my nose there's a reflex in the body when the mouth is closed the nose will open up you just have to relax into it and I was a week away from getting sinus surgery I had chronic sinus infections for 15 years I was on antibiotics every month in my teens and early 20s it sucked so I had lots of time when I never nasal breathe and I have a devv septum and I've never had to have the surgery and I've taped my mouth for 5 years the reason you tape your mouth deeper sleep higher heart rate variability and more nitric oxide production especially in the brain it also changes the biome in your mouth because it turns out your oral biome is what the beginning of your microbiome in your gut so you don't get bad breath in the morning and you don't get cavities when you tape it sounds dumb but it it's very easy it works and as a marital Aid there's nothing like taping your partner's mouth to improve the relationship I mean who without a doubt being able to breathe through your nose when you sleep it makes such a huge difference we'll get back to the podcast in a second but first of all I want to say a massive shout out to bionic I have been using their supplements for the past four years I never knew what supplements I needed to take I'd always go into the pharmacy and buy a load of random bottles and end up popping pills all day every day not having a clue if I was consuming the vitamins which I should be consuming at all but bionic came to save the day they are a tailor made supplment company that will put together your own specific formula based on your activity your gender I have bionic Pro where I get the blood test done every 3 to four months and based on that blood test I get my own personalized formula for those people who don't want to do a blood test or don't have access to that then you can go with bionic go where you just have to fill in a short questionnaire and based on that questionnaire you will get your tailored supplements with a surprisingly High degree of accuracy so stop the guess work sign up to bionic and ensure that you remove those deficiencies and build up your immune system go back to Calis if you I'm so curious if you were taking this every day is it not going to elevate your heart rate and increase blood pressure it increases circul but it's actually a Vaso dilator which drops blood pressure it doesn't raise blood pressure so if you have high blood pressure it would be good for you okay what I like to do I take my Calis with a high sodium electrolyte I do about eight grams of sodium a day you want to change your life always put salt in your water it's incredible every time you drink water okay I'm saying that while I'm drinking mineral water those minerals but not salt but that's CU I didn't put salt in it but I'd say almost all of the time there is salt in my water or electroly with sodium there's a whole conversation we have about salt but raising blood volume by putting salt in your water is a really good idea especially if you take a Vaso dilator and this is good in the bedroom or in the gym yeah yeah I've heard people take it there before they goes to the gym yeah might have to try that but going to Salt this is quite interesting how do you know if you are going to be overdoing it with the salt intake like how do you know what is the perfect amount cuz I know for sure when when we get into the summer month it's more hot in whether I'm in Dubai or whether I'm training in gyms which are I've got higher temperature room temperature I sweat a lot more so the need for the electrolytes and salt intake is going to be higher whereas when I'm sweating less surely I would need to bring that down a little bit no your cells are full of salt water they're always full of salt water MH so your water that you drink if you want it to go into your cells should be salt water that has the same amount of salt as your cells have then it can enter the cells otherwise if you just drink a glass of water no sodium in it then inside your cells is full of salt water outside the cells is regular water so your body's going to have to dilute the sodium inside the cell and it's not going to let the water into the cell and you say Dave that sounds like BS except I have a $26,000 medical device in every one of my upgrade Labs locations and we measure cell hydration and whereas the water inside the cells or outside the cells and we have tens of thousands of data points and what you see regularly is people come in and their cells are dehydrated you tell them put some salt in some water and drink it and come back in an hour and then their cells are hydrated MH so the amount of water you drink goes up when you're sweating and the amount of salt per unit of water remains constant so you might drink 10 glasses of water with salt in it when it's a hot day and you might drink six glasses when it's a cool day but the same amount of volume in the of salt in the water stays constant okay so to properly rehydrate is salt all you really need like do you now because there electrolyte supplement powders which you can add to the water a lot of it flavorings there's also other things inside of it as well you need anything that's going to change the osmolality of the water so you know what is a great hydrator sugar so sugar water will hydrate yourselves just problem is sugar is not that good for you so you might not want to do that um sodium works really well so does magnesium so does potassium calcium not so much mhm and so what you would want to do ideally is youd want to have some sodium some magnesium and some potassium most people are very potassium deficient these days so I kind of like going a little heavier on the potassium but if you take only potassium in high doses you can get arrhythmias and that's not a good idea so I always pair sodium and potassium you want two sodiums for every one pottassium and you can put magnesium in there too magnesium is great as we have all heard of for all kinds of reasons including muscle synthesis and reducing cramps and in order for magnesium to get into cells you need potassium so pottassium appears to be the missing link and the more sodium you get the more potassium you need okay so I take something that has sodium potassium and magnesium in it and then I add additional salt to all of my food and how do you know if you need more salt if you have any desire for salt it's your body telling you it's like hunger that means you need more salt yeah people say but Salt's going to raise my blood pressure no taking sodium increases blood pressure only within the error rate of a blood pressure cuff the vast majority of all the studies you've seen on this they look at interviews so how much sodium did you have yesterday like I don't know well let me just take a little survey you can't determine sodium so a guy named Michael Alderman about 25 years ago the head of the American Society for hypertension high blood pressure this is a medical doctor it's like what if we use science and he measured the urinary sodium output of 3,000 people over time and at the end of the study he summarized it by saying if you want to live longer eat more salt from a doctor studying high blood pressure with data from 3,000 people over multiple years and here's why this matters when your body is stressed if you lift your body is stressed that's what it is it's mechanical stress on your muscles it's beneficial stress but it is stress if your body is stressed you need sodium right your adrenals actually produce aldosterone to help you do this and if you're low on sodium it makes the body even more stressed and when you take sodium at levels the Americans recommend it's about 2.1 maybe 2.4 grams a day that is so low that it raises an enzyme in your blood called renin a small increase in Ren and doubles heart attack risk so they're telling you if you just cut your salt it might lower your blood pressure a tiny amount within the error margin of our measure they ignore the fact that it's going to make you tired lower blood volume lower cell hydration and then you end up just getting sick and if you keep doing it for long periods of time your cardiac disease risk goes up because they only look at blood pressure they don't look at all cause mortality and they don't care how you feel or how you perform and in biohacking show me the numbers how do you feel how do you perform what do your Labs look like more sodium more life it's that straightforward will your thoughts on OIC OIC is one of the most underrated and exciting longevity drugs in the recent decade guess a little bad press you know you can misuse any drug it turns out morphine is a damn good painkiller and you can abuse it so with a zig I just want to is a different forms of it yeah there's so glp1 agonists like OIC OIC is the first one it does one of the glps there's another drug that does two Ander appetite does all three so there's different drugs that affect different parts of that metabolic system and if you're obese you should use a zic yeah straight up and people say it should only be for diabetic people well thanks for your moralizing this is a free country as a matter of fact I think steak should only be for me but the fact that I think I only one it doesn't matter you don't get to tell others what to do so for people who are fat like I was and I'm pretty passionate about this because I was obese and I did everything on Earth to lose that 100 pounds and I would have done anything and your risk of dying from everything when your fat are much higher so here comes this drug that it fixes your metabolism problem is if you use it wrong it takes away your bone density and it takes away your muscle mass and those are not good for you either in fact they're probably not worse for you than just being really fat but who wants to have weak bones and no muscle that's is bad so what you do if you're going to take a zic and this should be required for doctors to tell you this one gram of animal protein per pound of body weight and it doesn't matter if you don't want it you take yourself to have it yeah put some powder in room temperature water and hold your nose and just just slam it you have to get it in number two you got to do heavy lifting twice a week and when I say heavy lifting there's lots of people people who aren't going to go to the gym it may be you do some squats at home with a resistance band it doesn't have to be that crazy you do some push-ups do some pull-ups and do some roasts just get the big muscles activated so that your metabolism doesn't lose them you know if you're not working on your triceps and calves you'll survive right if you just do that make sure you have enough protein make sure you have some resistance exercise you'll lose weight rapidly and consistently and then once you're done you go on domain and STS and just full disclosure I did use oympic for one week five years ago when the first study came out about using this for weight loss I found one of the original researchers and I interviewed him on my podcast and so I injected it for one time for that show I felt like I had morning sickness H week it was terrible yeah but one of my my ex-girlfriends took it cuz she we went on holiday it was actually over the Christmas period and she didn't she she knew what she was like around junk food and she didn't want to just overindulge so she took it cuz some of her friends had taken it before but then it was just really inconvenient because when we were sitting down and having dinner she just didn't eat anything she was like I feel so sick it it's basically you could just do fasting yeah right and the nausea was not good for me so when I get home is that like the nausea is all day it was for me the entire week from one injection and I injected the lowest normal dose for weight loss but I don't need to lose weight so maybe that was part of it so what I'm doing when I get home is I have some eptide which is the most advanced one I'm going to be injecting 20% of the weight loss dose once a week and I'm doing that for longevity because it repairs mitochondrial networks it's neuroprotective it reduces systemwide inflammation so it's a miracle drug for longevity in micro does and it's a miracle drug for weight loss if you just lift some things and eat some beef it's not that hard but if you just take it by itself I would consider that an Abus of asmic and you look at that that they call it heroin Chic this is a look that was popular in the 80s AR Arana Grande yeah the skinny this was a thing I think it was mostly cocaine not heroin that that made this look happen in the the early 990s or something SM nutrition right and so this is kind of coming back in Hollywood and it's not a healthy look I in fact studies show men are more attracted to women with curves yeah and the reason for that that we don't know this but it's it's all primordial stuff is that when women have fat on their butt and on their thighs that fat is highest in omega-3 fatty acids and the higher your omega-3 reserves the higher the IQ of your child will be so the the unacknowledged subconscious parts of men are like she could have a healthy baby and mean like she's hot but the the stuff that's happening in your unconscious in in your uh basically your automated systems in the body it's making you feel attraction because of the health benefits of having some padding and you and I both know Fitness competitor women who just they're so lean and ripped and all of them say I've never looked better and felt worse in my entire life and then two years later they they're doing blogs about how they had to fix their Metabolism from over fasting and overt trining right so we don't want that kind of look of that malnourish look to come into because it's bad for women um and it's also it's bad for for babies if they decide to have kids if you're malnourished you you it's hard to have kids and we have a plummeting rate of fertility in the world it's it's actually very frightening like a lot of the countries that we know about today are emptying out because they just aren't having any babies and part of this is environmental toxins but if you're malnourished and you have environmental toxins you're not going to have healthy kids yeah how concerned should we be with the elevated microplastics that seem to be in every almost everything that we consume I mean I I've been keeping an eye on this and listening to some podcasts and then I really question every time I drink bottled water from plastic we should be incredibly concerned about microplastics it's one of the biggest threats to the future of humans because it's entering the food chain at the very lowest level and it doesn't break down over time and any type of fish you eat today is just studded with it because it goes into the ocean and then it gets just through wave action gets smaller and smaller particles and it gets absorbed into the membranes of cells and it stays there like a lipid would but it can't get out and then we eat the fish and our levels go up and up but it's absorbing Through Your Skin if you are synthetic clothes if you have fleece and polyester in your home you have a drier and you do that it puts it in the air so you need air filters for it and if you're drinking plastic water it's just full of it so it's time that we measure it in food and we start putting limits on manufacturers I've grown $140 million a year health food company and I'm working on building another one with danger coffee and I pay a lot of attention to this one of the difficulties is sometimes regulations require plastic when there's another solution and other times customers won't pay for glass because glass breaks and it's heavy and they don't want it and if the product is $25 in glass or $12 in plastic everyone's going to buy the plastic mhm but we need to recycle it and we should stop doing dumb things like those little plastic safety seals that are on top of another safety just stop yeah like every ounce of plastic we use you're going to eat it and because I'm in the longevity world and I'm planning to live for hundreds of years I don't throw plastic in places where I know I'm going to eat it 100 years from now and if we were all to know we're going to live a lot longer than we think I think we take better care of the oceans and the soil and that means reducing plastic means actually recycling it and'll be really controversial if you're not going to recycle plastic burn it because then we don't have microplastics we can deal with the chemicals we cannot deal with microplastics they lower testosterone we found them in the seamen intestines of men and the ovaries of women it is a it is a disaster biologically that's underappreciated and it doesn't matter if you care about how you look and feel now you care about fertility you care about children or if you care about longevity it's in everything and it's lowering what we can do as humans so what are some very simple steps that people can start taking I would imagine an obvious one don't microwave any food inside of a PL plastic container I would go one further don't own plastic containers okay just get glass containers it's not that hard if they have a plastic lid you'll probably be okay but don't let plastic touch food don't get food to go you're getting huge amounts of microplastics and BPA and other antigon disruptors in the Disposable containers that it's coming in so learn how to cook it's not that hard yeah there's one place where I get a lot of my food from now they do it in cardboard containers which I imagine is better but probably not cardboard is better but they always coat the cardboard with something so that bad they coat it with something so that the oil and grease and water won't go through it and then they even say it's compostable but that compound is toxic to bacteria and worms and also it makes compost that can't actually function and it also has usually BPA in it so it's it's tough what you would want yeah you would want it to be in an aluminum disposable container M now some people are going but Dave aluminum causes Alzheimer's yeah you don't actually want food in aluminum especially acidic I would just rather take aluminum into my body because I can remove that but microplastics and integr disruptors you can't remove those yeah uh so get a really high quality reverse osmosis water filter the brda filters in plastic pictures no good every piece of plastic utensil especially plastic cutting boards and and spoons and forks and all that get rid of that stuff you want wood or metal or glass or ceramic for everything MH and then don't use plastic wrap you know use well use containers you know your grandmother would take a bowl and put leftovers in and put a plate on top of the bowl that works fine so I've eliminated I'd say 90% of the plastic from my kitchen and I don't drink water out of plastic bottles unless it's really a dire emergency with the amount of traveling which you're doing are you sometimes literally F you have no other alternative like I'm going to have to have this water from a plastic do kill you inside when you have to do that it's it's pretty rare here's what I do I have an assistant right and I'm on the road 50 70% of the time speaking at big events and stuff so I just say look in the US we use instacart to deliver groceries so my assistant orders a case of San pelino or any other water in glass bottles and sends it to the hotel with my name on it so I get to my room I only drink sparkling mineral water and it turns out mineral water is associated with extending your life anyway and you say that sounds really dumb except you're going to spend like 25 bucks or something on that it's $25 for one bottle of water at some hotels plastic so I'm like like I actually save money but more importantly I got the water that was in glass the problem is at airports what do you do I've gone back to using like a a container I carry because of the filtered water that they're going to give you at the airport and those little dispensers has less plastic in it than you're going to get from buying the water in and if you're at home there's no excuse for buying plastic bottles you can just get glass there's plenty of companies that do that the water tastes better and it's better for you and if you just less hot food in your plastic is the worst less water in plastic no plastic utensils get air filters get water filters don't eat out too much you're going to reduce your exposure by 90% yeah how have you conquered the jetl oh man Jed is my favorite thing so I used to fly from San Francisco to Cambridge England for one week a month for 18 months I had like the perfect torture to get that's a that's a big difference in t oh yeah and I was just wrecked by it so I I really worked on a lot of protocols and the most important signal for what time of day it is is the color and intensity of light you're exposed to so I started the first modern circadian biology company it's called true dark and the trick is in the morning you want bright light in your eyes ideally sunlight and at night you need Darkness problem is when I left Austin Texas to come to Dubai I left Austin it was 4:00 a.m. in Dubai by and it was probably 6:00 p.m. there so what do I do I put on the true dark sleep glasses it's a a special kind of red ttin with four different Optical filters and when I wear those with a baseball hat my brain thinks it's pitch dark because a red light doesn't signal anything to the brain as long as it's dim red light is this blocking blue light as well the glasses I'm wearing now are blocking half of blue light it turns out during the day if you block all blue light you will never wake up and you'll disregulated your biology so toxic blue light is below 490 NM and good blue lights above that so these true dark glasses are blocking the spectrum of light that's bad for you but they're allowing the good blue light through okay and there's they're the only ones like that on the market so blue blockers by themselves they're too much during the day and they don't work at night because there's three other colors that matter so the true dark sleep glasses I put those on to tell my body what time of day it is where I'm going to land so number one is is it dark number two is is there food and this goes back two billion years where little mitochondria floating in the ocean bacteria in the morning red light middle of the day infrared light and lots of food from the algae we would eat and the temperature goes up nighttime red light from Sunset it gets cooler and food becomes unavailable so if I land in Dubai and I landed at midnight basically for the four hours before I landed I was wearing dumb looking red glasses like I'm Cyclops right and I kept them on the entire time except for maybe 10 seconds to go through the passport control it doesn't take very long to for your your brain to get disregulated by bright lights and then I wore them in the hotel turned off all the lights in my room and I went to sleep and I stayed asleep all night long and if I didn't do that I would had a problem I also didn't eat after 600 p.m. in Dubai so the biggest mistake people make when they're traveling is you set up your food timing and your light exposure to match where you're going to land and I can cross eight or nine time zones with no jet lag just by changing those two things it's true dark glasses and don't eat when it's dark at your destination but eating on the flight is okay assuming that the food the availability of the food is going to be all right yeah most airplane food you don't want to eat but in the Middle East and in Europe some airplane food is actually pretty good depending on the airline like if it's Emirates or Turkish Airlines some of that food is actually pretty good yeah but generally speaking I don't eat on airplanes and there's reasons you just don't want to eat at high altitude but here's the thing you can't say it's okay to eat on an airplane or not you have to know what time it is where you're Landing so if it's between 10:00 a.m. and 400 p.m. at the place you're Landing you can eat what if you're really hungry when you landed it's dark cuz what what if you're really hungry and you're fasting yeah I think this this is one thing that I always try to perfect because I know with myself I don't want to eat too close to when I'm going to bed cuz I know that has a massive effect on my HRV you need a three-hour gap between your last meal and bedtime but I know because of my activity levels uh I don't I need to eat enough because if I don't eat enough and then maybe I go to bed a little bit later than anticipated the hunger starts to creep in and for me personally I find it quite difficult go to bed when I am hungry oh that's easy drink an extra glass of water with sodium and electrolytes and you could drop some creatine in it and if you need it a broadspectrum amino acid MH and it turns out water with enough electrolyte is going to turn off that kind of hunger yeah and it's true if you pull an all nighter you need more calories but if you eat your body will say oh the sun must be up because he ate because in all of recorded history there's only food when there's light because our mitochondria were based on eating Al in the middle of the day so that means every time there's a bright light even for 10 seconds and every time there's food in your mouth it better be during that peak in the middle of the day and the more you can stop eating late in the day the better you're sleep the longer you'll live and since late in the day is defined on Dubai time not on Austin Texas time that means as soon as I walk to the airport I'm wearing the glasses and I'm moving my food timing to match my destination and I'll have zero jet lag I wake up the next morning I do Brew my own coffee in the hotel cuz I'm picky about clean coffee have my cup of coffee in the morning I take the cognitive enhancers I take every morning and I am good to go like I was speaking on stage at a major event constant interactions every single day and now I'm in fundraising mode for the next three days no cognitive fuzziness whatsoever the other trick that's really helpful for people is adaptogens because what adaptogens do is they allow your body to turn on cortisol and more quickly and then turn them off more quickly and they were developed independently in China and Russia and some of them in India and they would give them to soldiers before combat so that they could quickly go into fight mode and then quickly chill out so then they could be ready for the next fight and if the other side didn't have adaptogens they would go into fight mode and stay there all night long and they'd be weaker the next day so you can use adaptogens when you fly and the final thing is adrenal extract or even micro doing bioidentical cortisol your body is more stressed when you fly so you support your Stress Management Systems by temporarily increasing cortisol with 5 milligram doses of CF I'll do that as well oh and I'll take model why not I take that every day why uh sparkling water sparkling water tastes better yeah it it does we actually have carbon dioxide receptors on our tongues that have their own unique flavor but here's the interesting thing carbon dioxide is a hero biologically just people don't talk about it because the more Co 2 you have the more your body will use oxygen so it's not about having oxygen it's about having enough CO2 as a magnet to attract oxygen in and I have measured my blood oxygen levels on airplanes excessively because why whyd get bored in fact I used to test my finger and um when I was flying to Europe a lot and I'd be at you know 94 95 and other people on the airplane are sometimes in 80s I like high 80s if you're in a hospital and you're at 87 they put you at the ICU so a lot of people are just zombies on airplane cuz they can't handle high altitude and then I'd ask the flight attendant hey let me have your finger and I'd put the thing on they're all 99% because they're adopted to altitude MH so what I do for that is I drink water that contains carbon dioxide is called Sparkling Water so if you drink club soda on an airplane your oxygen levels will go up so I just drink it because it tastes good some people will say but but it has acidity in it this is the most frustrating if your blood pH goes off by even a tiny amount you die so your body has this amazing ability to regulate the pH you know what it is breathing yeah so you'll breathe out more CO2 if you need to so you don't have to worry about pH from that however if you take some baking soda just a very small amount um and you do that daily away from a meal It's associated with about a 15% increase in life expectancy because your body needs a buffer of carbonate so I don't worry so much about pH from drinking sparkly water and I also use baking soda as a longevity drug mm I want to move on to the topic of uh hair loss because I think a lot of my audience are quite interested in that and for me topic of what hair loss oh hair loss got it yeah so um especially within my family we all have like a terrible track record of hairloss every male is bald I was balding until I end up getting a hair transplant what can people do to preserve the amount of hair follicles on their head for as long as possible or are people just doomed by their genetics you can do a lot these days it it's actually really incredible so all the guys in my family on both sides are bald by the time they're 30 and there's three reasons that you're likely to lose your hair and one of them is an increase in DHT and it turns out though DHT which is one of the metab of testosterone the more DHT you have the more anabolic it is so very low DHT levels are not good for libido so you need some DHT but too much can be a cause another cause is mitochondrial stress right so when your mitochondria don't work very well you lose hair and then the other one is excess stress hormones for long periods of time so if you have excessive cortisol and adrenaline people lose hair all the time so hair shedding goes up as stress goes up so if you overtrain you're likely to go Bal because you're going to have too much cortisol and adrenaline but if they're low that's the problem if they're temporarily spiking that's actually a good thing when you need it it's just when they don't go back down they start losing hair loss so you're not going to know is it DHT is it that your cortisol levels are too high or is it your mitochondria suck well in my longevity book which is called superhuman I shared some research 48% of people under age 40 have early on mitochondrial deficiency and everyone over age 40 has it we just call it aging so a lot of biohacking is around how do I restore my mitochondria so that they make energy effectively from 30 pounds of air and some food that I eat every day if if you make all the electricity you can that's great if you make half as much as you can hair focals require that power so what could you do that works really well topical caffeine and aspirin are amazing for hair loss you can get lots of different formulations that have this this is like a shampoo uh no it's a like a serum you would put in after you and do it shampoo like a would it be a pet then you little pet or a spray yeah and then topical minoxidil has uh pretty good evidence to do it you have to be very consistent with that uh you do so you stop then it's going to be a daily practice some people say you save money with oral you do if you like back hair so I'm also not a fan of oral minoxidil because it drops blood pressure but maybe that's a benefit to some people um finasteride yeah I know you're not a fan of that is that stuff is dangerous uh the the number of men who have been chemically castrated by fasite it's much higher than than you'll often see in some of the studies from the industry I did have a hair transplant so um I've kept my hair very very effectively till I was about 46 and then I got my first testosterone pellet I've always used testosterone since I was 26 years old but testosterone is supposed to cycle up and down and when you get a pallet imp plantet it goes high and it stays high so I think my body was making too much DHT perhaps um and I lost a bunch of hair in about four months I stopped using that I'm like damn you know my my hairline just went back for the first time in my life so well so I had 10,000 hair fcal mooved from the side of my hair to the front so I did a hair transplant too I did a podcast about the whole thing I talk about all this stuff I do for a long jity like there's no secrets and I had the best results he's ever seen in terms of um of just getting good results from it and good surgeon I assume one of the top ones his name is Alan Balman top ones in the US a lot of people underestimate that they're like oh you can get it done cheaply in turkey and it's like if you go get a surgeon who's not experienced and doesn't care he's going to give you a first of all you w't pay any attention to the the hairline shape it'll just go down and it'll be straight it will look very natural and then it will look all pluggy because maybe the direction at which he placed those follicles all messed up like there's a lot that goes into it and if anybody thinking about doing it don't do it cheaply like amen invest there was 40 man hours uh of working on my hair and put it in the right place I I had 1,700 and it was a two-day process yeah mine took three days and there were three people working on my head the entire time it it's not for the Fain heart there's a lot of painkiller and yeah it w for me it wore off yeah for a little bit and I was feeling everything oh it was painful for the first couple months so that's it's better to not lose in the first place so what do you do those topical things I talked about you can also get LED or lasers they absolutely work Brian Johnson used that um oh yeah um I uh uh have you seen his documentary by the way I haven't seen it yet but I mean I I did the whole thing about like penis enhancement and using lasers for hair loss but it was like four years ago um so how expensive is one of those devices light therapy has always been very expensive so I started a company called True Light about 12 years ago to make affordable light therapy devices so those are like 400 bucks but they're not designed as hair caps the one that I used um posts surgery is a $5,000 laser cap not LED cap and it might be the same one that brand uses I don't know but I didn't look at what brand it was but the higher-end ones work you want a mix of infrared and red and the side benefit is your brain will work better anyway mhm so that's that's a good situation yeah I think with um finess ride it's uh it's you're playing a game of Russian Roulette like there are I think there there's some people that they're probably not really going to feel the side effects but then there's some people who will really feel it and I think even like I I dabbled in it but I I kept the dosage very low it's like 0.5 milligrams per day and then there was a few days where I'd miss it and did you notice a difference not really but then part of me was thinking there has that something is happening it's not there's not going to be no side effects but for me I think naturally I had a pretty high sex drive anyway so if it means that having high sex drive goes to normal sex drive I can live with that you don't want that high sex drive is a marker of longevity in Chinese medicine life force energy or Chi like it it's intimately tied with desire to be alive and there's no evidence that it's just going to move it down a little bit it turns off like a light switch what I did when I was Rec I did all the crazy stuff um that isn't standard because I'm a biohacker and I have access to all the things and which is why I got better results I used a derivative of finasteride that I got from a Russian manufacturer um and I used it for two weeks and my liido went away entirely it was actually frightening it was like what just happened like like things aren't working yeah exactly and it took and I when I figured out what it was I stopped it took a year to fully recover and that was from two weeks of usage and I just why would you mess with that like you don't you don't want that to happen so finesse dri for me it's a no-o because the risks are too high and it could be five or 10% of people just don't know yeah and even if you take it for a while like I think I'm fine but maybe you're not so why do it when there's all this other stuff that works and you know I've maintained uh my hair transplant and all the rest of the hair that they didn't transplant and I just outlined what I do yeah it's looking good a thank you what's with the I have noticed as well I've started to get a few gray hairs creeping along the sides anything I can do about that is that just going to happen it depends on why you get gray hair and there's three reasons you get gray hair one of them is an excess of hydrogen peroxide and so taking some antioxidants might help with that um and antioxidants that quench peroxy nitrite and for that it turns out hydrogen water or topical hydrogen would be really effective there's some evidence that red light may help with that but the big reason that we're getting gray hairs there two reasons actually but the biggest one is deficiency of copper so a lot of people got gray hair yeah my blood test consistently says low copper and what obviously bionic has done is they uh they've drastically increased the uh percentage of copper which I'm consuming but I don't think my body can absorb it it has a problems absorbing it you just hit on the problem so copper is it's fast fasinating because if you don't have enough copper you'll get anemic because copper drives iron but copper is a toxic metal if you have too much copper is really bad for you and too much extracellular copper is bad for you and having copper inside your cells at the right amount is necessary for life and a lot of people including me have things that happen in our liver that require large amounts of copper way more than normal so or way more zinc than normal so what ends up happening is that you can take Hopper and it won't go into the body and if you if you take enough zinc to meet your biological needs zinc and copper compete for for that so my mother fully white hair at 25 and that's because genetically we have that same thing so I I kept mine pretty good um I use um a a hair wash thing it's funny it's the same stuff that Brian uses and like I've tried every hair product out there that doesn't that has clean label and things like that and he's like oh I use this stuff it's a it's not a hair dye and I'm like I'll try it it's a hair dye it's called Miyaki uh but it uses things like henna and other things so like twice a week uh before I take a shower like 10 minutes before I smear some stuff in my hair and then I wash my hair and so it keeps it darker than it would be and I have to take 45 milligrams of zinc a day or my catacol immune system doesn't work it's a genetic thing I know the Pathways in my liver and for a lot of people that's excessive zinc but for me that's just barely enough but that means getting copper into my CS is just about impossible so I'm like what do I do like [ __ ] for two weeks and take excess copper and then get copper toxicity to get enough into my cells this is one of the areas of biohacking that has a lot to do with your genetics uh and I'm working on that stuff so give me time and I'll get copper into my body one way or another and I'll tell you how I did it is is there anything particular within the biohacking space that you just would love to know a definitive answer of like is there a burning question you have and you're just like I would really love to know what the actual answer is to that because there's still so much that we we don't know we're getting better at it we're starting to have a greater understanding but there must be some things that are burning in the back of your head you're like I really want to know the answer to this one of them is that copper question uh the other one that I'm I think is a shorter ter thing I haven't jacked it I've injected testosterone for 25 years and some of the time I would use a cream uh but you can't use testosterone cream if you have little kids in the house because it just takes a little bit of it and then it really messes yeah you don't want your three-year-old to have a mustache so you got to be careful uh so I'm like how do we get testosterone into the body in a way that's that's useful and I'm testing two different oral formulations I'll do a podcast on the one that works best mhm uh so right now I'm not injecting or using a cream I'm just using it orally and this is a big breakthrough so which of those are going to work better um the other thing that I'm really interested in is something we talked about before in the world of biohacking even in the world of longevity the way I work with it toxins make you age quickly and they mean that you're not going to live as long and in the performance enhancement part of my work it means you don't perform well today so I'm looking at ways to enhance detox Pathways especially for microplastics there is a way to get almost everything out of the body and it's not well mapped out the other area of big interest for me is using pharmaceutical drugs in micro does to activate Pathways that no natural compounds will for longevity so I'm doing a lot of work on that but in terms of like a single question it would be how do I double my IQ or double my lifespan but it's a recipe it's not a one thing kind of kind of thing you know what I would love for there to be some sort of a test or device where every single day when you wake up you you take it or you do it and your body tells you this is what I need today these are the nutrients I need these are the foods that I would like to consume because I I I would consider myself to be pretty healthy I try and eat as much healthy food as possible but there's so many choices when it comes to healthy food and I'm like well should I have fish today or should I have some steak or should I should I have a salad today or should I skip the salad and should I have the white rice I mean we discussed a lot of this yeah prior but this this there is when you say healthy food there's a lot of things that come under healthy food it's mostly marketed as healthy and it's not um here's the way to look at it there is no way today for you to know how much mineral is in whatever is you're eating today or how much nutrient it it varies L even the amount of fat or protein in something is it summer or winter what breed of cow was it what all did like it's very hard to be precise so have all these things online say I'm going to track my you can pretty much guess the amount of calories you eat and you really can't know the amount of calories you burn so that doesn't work and what you really can do though is you can say I know my body's needs for these types of minerals these fat soluble vitamins these B vitamins these amino acids take some pills guarantee that you got it m and then food is an energy source it is not a good nutrient Source our soil is depleted there's all kinds of toxins so to me food is energy and it's basic building blocks of protein and aminos certain types of saturated fatty acids and some carbs for energy and a few special carbs with magic powers and then the plants are all about the polyphenols and other signaling compounds in plants that mostly affect gut bacteria so I take some pills that are plant concentrates and I use some herbs on my steak and I'll eat some plants cuz I wanted some fiber or I'll use a fiber powder that gets me three times more fiber than most people get from their diet that quadruple the number of bacteria in my gut it's called a quesa gum it's it's tree sap from Africa so I'm just going to guarantee that every day I have what my body needs and then I'll eat some food and there's this weird moralistic thing well I should get all of my nutrients from my food like and then you should get all of your toxins from Mother Nature too and since our food is from depleted soil and we're under a huge toxic load if you're not taking supplements you're not going to feel good you're going to age more quickly you're going to have a lot more chronic disease and your life is going to suck so supplements are non optional in the world that we built and people who harm themselves by saying I have a belief that is harming me but it's my belief I I recognize your right to have that belief and to take action but you get to suffer the consequences of having beliefs that don't match reality today you need supplements to function in the world we built let's build a world doesn't require supplements but that's going to take a re-engineering of the food supply and we're going to have to reduce pollution yeah are you writing a new book at the moment my new book is called heavily meditated okay and it's about all the things that work faster than meditation or enhance meditation because it turns out if you solve the nutrition problem and you're working on the longevity problem The Way I Am the thing that people really really want is they want to be happy and they want to live forever so when you become a biohacker no matter what the reason was you're ultimately going to become a life extension and a Consciousness person because those are the two goals I want to be happy I want to live as long as I want and those are actually much harder and they require more biohacking than losing weight or putting on muscle or learning how to sleep and things like that those are the baby steps the big guns are longevity Consciousness and that's why I weote heavily meditated so having a more peaceful mind peaceful mind and peaceful body yeah right it terms like you want to put on muscle do your workout and know how to turn off your sympathetic response as a conscious choice you can do that so along with all this other longevity stuff that I've done the 2 and half million that I've spent on it for the past 10 years I've run a neuroscience company that can replicate 20 to 40 Years of meditation in five really intense days and I've spent six months of my life with electrodes glued to my head showing myself what's going on in there and reprogramming threat networks and triggers so it's really hard to trigger me and I used to be a little bit different than that well that's one of the biggest things I think um I would like to change is doing a bit more meditation and just yeah particularly before going to bed I want I want to shut my brain off that's one of the things that I've I feel like I've mastered quite a few things but the art of just switching off when I want to switch off is still something I'm trying to figure out you want a a little excerpt from the book for that yeah okay so I write about everything that does that and one of the cool techn techologies in heavily meditated is based around heart rate variability so you know you're mourning heart rate variability we talked about that you can get a sensor that you clip onto your ear and you look at your phone and it tells you breathe in breathe out that's easy but the sensor is tracking your real time heart rate variability and the trick is breathe in and make the light turn green and it's really hard and I can't tell you how to do it just sitting here but when you have feedback you're going to figure out how to do something in the middle middle of your chest and that is you consciously turning off your sympathetic nervous system MH when I learned how to do this in about 2005 I realized that hundreds of times a day I was getting triggered I didn't know why but my body would just go into this fight or flight and sometimes it was you know someone cuts you off in traffic or a boss does something but once I learned the feeling of switching into that state you learn how to switch out of it so I spent a couple years just hundreds of times okay playing whack-a-mole with my nervous system system until it learned how to be peaceful and that helped a lot and then there's all the ruminating thoughts and all but if you were to do 10 minutes of heart rate variability feedback training before you went to bed you'll drop like crazy if you got any bad habits I always I'm curious to know that people who know so much about health Wellness longevity do they dabble into things they know they shouldn't be doing for example me like I will have the odd cheat meal I may smoke a cigar from time to time I know I do c I do things that I know are not good for me but I'm like let me just You could argue that only doing things that are good for you is a bad habit MH because it means you probably have orthorexia or you're a really fearful person MH so the idea here the reason it's called danger coffee is like who knows what you might do you choose your risks so when I'm in Dubai I make it a point to eat two kilograms of baklava per week I love that stuff yeah okay I wouldn't want to do that every week for very long but I'm not sensitive to the the type of gluten that's out here and I take enzymes for it I control my blood sugar reasonably well and it's delicious right so I could say that's a bad habit shame on you Dave I want to be perfect I don't have perfectionism I chose the pleasure I mitigated the damage and that's fine but there are other foods that for my biology I know it just makes you feel like crap I'm not going to eat those MH right so will I make a less than perfect decision for the pleasure heck yeah will I reduce the harm from that sure well I drink every week alcohol is bad for you I don't drink every week am I one of those people says I'll never have a drink again no if it's older than me or it's really good sushi and there's a great bottle of socket I'm going to have a little bit but I'm not going to get drunk again cuz it's not worth it yeah there's other things that are much better I just don't do those here yeah exactly same um where can people find you I'm at Dave ase.com my podcast is called the human upgrade 1250 episodes in 500 million downloads lots of longevity and fitness and other things like that danger coffee.com and all the other good stuff and how many books got eight books out and this next one should be my fifth New York Times bestseller amazing honestly that was I was fully engaged with that there's a lot of things we could have talked about but hopefully it be part two at some point I think we shared a lot of value and thanks for having me on amazing