I love just love this stuff you have to be mad you have to be nuts to do all this stuff and I'm proud to say we're all [Music] [Laughter] [Music] nuts hey I'm Mitch Gallagher from Sweetwater we've got something really special for you today we're sitting down with ulie ringer great to see you thank you for having me such a pleasure we got Brendon Murphy Senior Sal engineer we've got Daniel Fischer synth expert extreme extreme synth expert maybe but uh we want to sit down and uh actually get to know you a little bit talk about uh your life's journey and and uh how things have developed I was fascinated when I was uh uh reading a little bit about you that your father was a nuclear physicist but also a church organist your mother was an interpreter also into music you had Aunts Uncles in music so you really come from a musical background music was everywhere in the house yeah uh you're right my father was one of those math scientists he was a nuclear physicist he was also Church organ player and he lived and breathed and uh loved his his pipe organ that he built my mom was a simultaneous interpreter she was a teacher and she was also a Pianist so we had music the whole time yeah my uncle was a composition professor and my aunt was an opera singer so I grew up with music and electronics so I guess I had no choice no choice at all yeah is it true that your father bought a church organ a pipe organ and installed it into your house well he bought a a pipe organ and you may know that in these days church organs were built um with pneumatics or with mechanical control and so he bought the pipe organ with 1,2 200 pipes wow and he uh electrified it so that was the days 1960 something where transistors came out so he bought these transistors from the UK and sorted them out on his dining table and he basically was the first in the world who built an electronically controlled pipe organ wow he got multiple patents on it and um this organ was his life m to the very last breath he took and I was a little boy he could look over his shoulder and he taught me electronics and he allowed me to help him a little bit and I think that was one of the most um influential times in my life and you started playing piano very young yes obviously as I said no choice I was four years old and uh my mom being an incredible teacher she knew how to um got me to play piano by feeding me a grape for every scale I played ah so positive in reinforcement uh yes I I started at the age of four typical classical education and uh later I went to the university start started classical piano and then one day I uh was invited to the jazz festival in montree and that's when I lost it was the day when elg was on stage and uh I got the Jazz bug and I started to play jazz MH nice nice so you had you you're originally from Switzerland but you had gone to to a university in Germany that's correct as far as I remember I'm still swiss but uh that's long ago yeah I started Sound Engineering because that was the only University that taught uh s engineering and I went to the Robert Schuman Institute to study classical piano and that's where we had little recording studio we had 100 students and um two microphones an old tunen recording machine and a I think it was an eight channel um Telephone can mixing console M four channels were always out of business of course so you had four channels and the real problem at the time was actually that uh you had to queue up you have to book the room wait three months and uh if you were lucky you got the room but I said to myself how do I ever become a recording engineer if a camp practice right and that was the beginning when I said I need to have my own recording studio so I turned my living room into a recording studio set up with the acoustic shielding and the tables and the plan was to build a recording studio mhm but then I said how do I how do I um you know get equipment and I was not able to afford it because I was a a struggl musician so I started to build equipment for myself and all my friends came hey if you if you build that stuff why don't you make me a a compressor or mixing console as well and so I gave it to my friends for basically nothing MH because it was never meant to be a business and um I made a lot of my friends happy I bet yeah I bet that's fantastic so were you doing a recording of your own music or were you working with bands or what were you doing with the studio in those days interesting the studio never got finished it soon became a production facility MH I'm probably a lousy sound engineer but I started to develop products more and more friends came and said hey the stuff sounds great can you help me as well and then said Well there must be a lot of people who have the same problem so I advertised in little classified ads if you still remember what that is and uh I started basically turn my so-called Studio into a manufacturing facility and the rest is history wow how about that you had actually uh built some equipment before when was the first synthesizer that you built well that's an interesting story so um I grew up uh in the 80s when all the beautiful synthesizers came to life with the junos the Jupiters the 909s and we had a a little uh music shop next door every minute available minute I was in that store playing the stuff and I grew up with the synthesizers and I remember one of my friends called me said there is a there's a recording studio who will get the first profit five and we went there and I was totally Smitten by the sound of their product and I went to my dad and said I need 7,000 Swiss Franks would you mind right and you can imagine that you're you're out of your mind right but what happened later is I I played played so much or spent so much time in that in that store one day the owner said you know what you're never going to buy anything anyway get the hell out of my store and that was actually very traumatic for me because I realized if you don't have money you're screwed my dad was kind enough to said you know I'm not going to buy you a synthesizer but I'm going to help you build a synthesizer so I was about 16 years old and I built my first synthesizer nothing great by today's standards but I put so many hours into it and they were like do it yourself magazines and I picked some circuitries here and there I had an old EK organ if you still remember that brand so I took the key bed out of it and some knobs and so that was my first um Encounter of building my own synthesizer and what it really did is it helped me to learn electronics and if my dad just had bought me a synthesizer I probably would have never developed the same passion right necessity is the mother of all Innovation right it had a electric piano belt in it was an organ and it had a synthesizer and I played in three bands so I could carry this thing around and depending on the music we played I had everything set up unfortunately I lost it it was uh oh no yeah someone someone threw it away as we moved to offices it hurts me to this day but uh many years later um Pete Sadler the the brand leader of Midas whom I told the story he said actually didn't say anything but he felt that it hurt me that this thing was lost and secretly he built a synthesizer which later become the Deep Mind that's a story you probably never heard and so he was never meant to be sold he basically built that product for me wow to uh to give me a gift and later on obviously became a widely successful synthesizer right wow but that's a little bit the Journey of my introduction to synthesizes right and I know you spend time with the Deep you guys have definitely dug into that as well I mean that's a pretty nice gift there's a lot of love sweat and tears into that thing right that sparked the whole journey of bringing synthesizers back and probably it it evoked the same emotions that I had when I was in that music store that I could not afford these products and I made a mission we made a a mission to bring these products back and give it to people like me at the time who couldn't afford products MH right and I can tell you that in many cases we build synthesizer there is no commercial incentive behind it in some cases we even lose money it doesn't matter right but perhaps my gift to the Musicians is to make these synthesizers affordable because you know how many people love the old since and uh something I totally enjoy and for me it's almost like a 360 right where I started and coming back and yeah of course we're surrounded by all the fantastic things it's it's so cool I love just love this stuff yeah you have to be mad you have to be nuts to do all that stuff and right I'm proud to say we're all nuts right well that's fantastic I have to ask you about one more story before and then we'll let these guys chime in as well but I really like the story of your mentor and his daughter and the logo I was dating a beautiful girl in those days when I was studying in Germany and her father was a named by guy by the name otan and he was running a chocolate or Candy Factory he was a marketing genius right so whenever I visited um their house he took me aside we went to these walks in the forest and said so my son what do you want to do said well I have this great idea I want to build a company and build build products and he said well let me teach you a few things right uh first of all don't buy a big car save the money right and reinvested in your in your business and um What Makes You Different right find it distinguishing factor I said well you know I told he knew I had a perfect pitch and I said you know we're going to create a story that your equipment sounds different so how do we demonstrate this how we illustrate this take your ear so he called his graphic designer draw this young man here a a logo and then we put a triangle around it and uh that's basically the story and I I really owe this man a lot he was a a great mentor and I'm sure you have mentors in your life they're so important in life right especially when you when you start something and I question I had no idea how to run a business right right and whenever I had question uh I asked him at some point I probably was more important to visit him than his daughter but you later helped you read his designed that the logo a little bit as well yes that's right Anna Anna which I'm still in touch on today she's a wonderful lady and a great singer by the way I actually went to see her and I told her the story and they said you know what that logo looks a little bit outdated and she's a she's a marketing expert as well I said we need to simplifi that and so she helped me red find that so there's another 360 I love that story I love that that's so cool Daniel what have you always wanted to ask ulie not ask so much but just thank um for a lot of these things that have come out you know I I I come from the same area I'm going to be 63 so I'm right there with you and uh and so you know when I started synthesis each of these things kind of came out one at a time and I got to learn what this was and what that was right soon as I started getting in the industry I was working at kural back in early 90s but then all of a sudden the sense went from a knob for every function to a data slider and a two segment LED and I think we lost a generation of synthesis budding synthesis then because you could never experience what turning resonance and cut off at the same time is or the envelope depth and resonance at the same time or or anything just like this and instead it was where am I mousing to and and and you lost that and uh in particular the system 55 and that was back in 1980 right and only every once in a while with they would bring one here I would go and play again but when I saw that it was like not only could like I afford one but I could put it somewhere I couldn't put you know it would take a team of four people who might drop a system 55 but like I could get that from one you know it breaks into two pieces I could get that from one room to another but everything that I got to try back in 1980 people can try again you can experiment again and just all of that's really exciting and if you can't afford it what's like then what that's no use to you what's the point exactly I can totally relate to this and actually being old school of course um I like knobs I like switches I never I never got excited about vsds but that's my personal opinion and uh I think vsds are great because obviously they come cheap and so people have a chance to to learn but the real experience is when you when you turn an off right it's a tactile feeling and a switch and it makes a noise and so on I think uh there's a hugely emotional aspect to all of these instruments and the hardware itself I believe is a very important part of it yeah there's a performance aspect grabbing a control and Brandon I know you're you're big into how many synthesizers 100 synthesizers in your Studios about 140 140 so so obviously you're your house it's it's CR 40 you must have a very tolerant wife well yeah very tolerant thank you but I know that's that's an important aspect for you as well because a lot of those are grab it and and make the changes I have every shape and size and the way I work is is I have them around the room kind of like a showroom they're up on the walls in flat wall and then I just bring a couple over to a two-tier stand next to my console that I use on occasion then I'll put those back and bring two more over I was just about to ask do you actually play them all absolutely oh that's cool absolutely and I just go through them and there's something special about it doesn't necessarily have to be analog but having all the knobs and laid out in front of you it's just a totally different experience so do you have a kind of a list as you you give them the same amount of attention so no I'm sure there's some that are jealous of the others yeah everybody has their favorites but I like that because I see a collect them but then actually they just collect dust right it becomes more like a status symbol then actually I'm glad to hear to speaking of the the electronics and analog and digital and things you have actually basically built a city in China and you've been living there for how long now well city is a little bit exaggerated it's it's a it's it's a beautiful Factory I live there I've been living there um with with some with some uh gaps in between I live there now again I I was raised as a as a musician engineer and what we do right now we completely automate the factory we reinvent the factory putting the latest um Automation in there and I like manufacturing I walked the shop floor three times a day I like to be Hands-On and uh something that uh I always enjoy right seeing the products being built and now the latest the latest aspect of automating the factory to a point it's called a light out Factory basically there's no people in it anymore agvs robots and so on and that's one of the buck things on my bucket list I want to achieve in my life to to drive a factory that's state-of-the-art so I'm curious with all of the the products you developed of course the synthesizers are at the Forefront you've been releasing uh these uh lately but of course the digital mixer area is also an area where you really have jumped to the four with the X Series and and with the wing and and all of those does that go back to your recording engineer passions honestly um I'm extremely proud of a team that I have in Germany they have been designing those products they've been with me for nearly 30 years now it's the same team it's basically a handful of geniuses passionate Beyond passionate and uh they developed the X series The Wing series now and all I do is I try to support them whatever they need I'm immensely proud of them as you know the X Series has become the most successful digital mixer Of All Times by by 100 miles we sold close to a million digital mixers and believe it or not we are selling more x2s today than when we started 12 years ago that's incredible it's it's I I believe it's fair to say it's an industry standard absolutely and more to come and I take no credit in all of this I all the credit is is it goes to the engineers and the people who designed this I think Yan was here some time ago yand du um I'm extremely proud of these people yeah and more to come wow that's awesome what what's coming after the the launch of the the wing the wing compact Wing rack will be mind-blowing oh fantastic and what about future plans for synthesizers are there more of those uh can we look forward to more happening in that area as well what do you think I think probably so I will build synthesizer to the last day yeah it's my passion it's our passion and as I said uh I'm proud to be nuts so I'm I'm curious you you've mentioned that a number of times the idea of passion does that passion for the synthesizer come from the music you were listening to from The Sounds you could get from it what is your infatuation with synthesizers that's that's interesting so when I was 16 a friend of mine invited me to a jazz festival in monrey I was 16 or 17 Alero was there Randy Crawford Breer Brothers Larry Carlton Lee written hour name it and I was a kid I never no idea about jazz and I tell you a funny story so Alo started to sing uh take five and there was a a lady next to me ripped up her blouse and said Al I love you and I was a kid there said must be cool to be a musician and that was the time then I started to listen to Oscar Peterson Monty Alexander George shearing and all these guys and I I started to to uh to play jazz and obviously the all the synthesizers you know were born at that day and U it was such a fascinating time and I think that's I guess where all this passion comes from were there particular uh synthes that you uh were looking up to with those sounds and with that playing was it Joo you know I me the guys who were really active at that time I think it was just the sound that that engraved in my in my brain in my heart and uh every time you play your synthesizer you know you discover new sounds right then the PPG came out which was a complete different experience and I just couldn't get enough right again to this day that the guy said just get out of my shop right but uh I I think it's it's a bug once the bug you know gets you then it's it's over I think you feel the same isn't it made a career out it yeah I think I think I greatly annoyed my my my mom or dad when they were just constantly playing and head headphones was not so a big thing I had speakers there and so uh actually actually my my dad when he when he built this organ which was in the at of her house on Sundays he would basically give it all right pedal to the metal and he was entertaining our neighbors whether they liked or not said well he if he can do it I can do it too so I was playing I was playing my synthesizers I'm trying to picture in my mind th 1,200 pipes and we know how big some of the base pipes are in the foot pedals and things that had to be like resonating the whole oh man I tell you we probably got cracks in the wall definitely I think we lost the Friendship of some neighbors I would think but uh what really inspired me was the passion my dad had for this organ mhm and we're all products of our parents aren't we and I think that was the moment where he he induced that that passion me and again being able to help help him along the way um I think that's who I am today well that actually uh uh brings up another important thing I wanted to discuss with you and that is the wiie Bur or Foundation right and giving back and supporting that passion and others as well tell us about that and where that came from what you're doing with that I think the biggest inspiration in my life was my mom um she passed two years ago and she was so supportive um I can tell you a story where um I just started my little company and in Germany and we had an option for a land so I want to build my first office right on my factory so all along the bank always said Mr Beringer we appreciate you as a as a loyal customer if you ever need money please come and visit us so the time came I had an option to buy that land put my Sunday suit on and then the guy said well tell me about your plan I said you know I want to build this this little Factory and the office I need some money and then they looked at me and said well we want to accompany you on your future path what we don't believe in you or we don't want to give you the money and I walked out I was literally in tears I was so disappointed and I was sad and I told the story my mom and she said don't worry I'll pledge my house for you wow she pledged her house for me a day later I walked into another bank they said no problem here's the loan and I will never forget this right these are the moments where um you understand the difference in your life right and later on when I went to Germany um my parents went through a rough time she said you know here's 20,000 Swiss Franks round about $20,000 that's all I have please take that money and hope that helps you study M and I never wanted to touch that money so I played in piano bars weddings and all kinds of stuff I never touched the money and L years later I gave it back to her I said I appreciate it but uh uh I wanted to do this on my own but just the support I got from my mother was uh something I will never forget right and she was always very proud of me to the last day I I uh tried to explain what we're doing and she was very happy she came to the factory in China walked the production line took a screwdriver at the age of 50 she went back to University she studied psychology and then uh worked for an institution called The Helping Hand where people call him in the distressed or suicidal so she did his prono and later on did Hospice at some point she came to me and said you know what I want to share something with you the experience I have gained in the hospital people die in two different ways one is they had a disgruntled or had a life that is not fulfilled they feel like there's some un unfinished business and she said people don't die in a very very easy way because they always feel there's something left to do but obviously they realize now it's too late right and then there are people who have a fulfilled life they experience love they could live their passion of course nothing is ever great right but they had a a pretty good life and she said they put the head on the pillow and often go with a smile and then she looked at me and said which of those two you want to be so it really helped me to understand that follow your passion follow the things you love to do because you never know when it's too late right towards the end of her life she had saved a lot of money she sold the house that she lived in and said here's the money please take it right and I said I don't want it and I said what would make you happy and she gave it away for scholarships the university in Switzerland to help people that are less fortunate it really touched me so now that I'm getting older I decided I want to step into the footsteps of my mom so I donated the whole company my personal assets into a foundation it's called the Uli baringer foundation and so personally technically I don't own anything anymore which is a great relief um because you need to make sure there's a succession planning but I'm also as an minimalist myself I feel a great sense of relief but part of the foundation is that we give back to people who are less fortunate I always say there's a musician every human being we want to empower the ones who have not and cannot so last year we donated a million us doer to playing for change.org which is an organization that helps people the kids around the world to have access to musical education to equipment we want to make sure that we give part of the profit that we earn back to society and in honor of my mom what an inspiring story yeah fantastic congratulations on that thank you love love to hear that giving back always of course it's a passion of ours here at Sweetwater as well and so we love having partners that are doing similar things and in a big way as you are I think it's part of our obligation right yeah fantastic so Brendan I asked Daniel I'll ask you as well what have you always wanted to ask oie when you start making sense sooner I'm deeply sorry it is what it is so what I'm trying to do now is catch up make up for the lost time so hopefully what's your favorite sense it's really hard to say one favorites like children you know you can't just one but uh obviously the obim ob8 I have an original that's one of my favorites right of yours I really like the MS 101 or ms1 that thing's phenomenal mini MOG is a classic and absolutely great sound in synth a lot of favorites I had a similar experience I went down to the local music store when I was a kid right but instead of kicking me out they put me to work okay and I've been in the business ever since that's a better outcome yeah yeah right right mine was always the the Selena and I don't know why it is there's something about that instrument that is just mesmerizing right Ensemble exactly but you can't get enough of it right right and you can't emulate it in a digital manner you can't my dad used to take me to those silly even though he didn't didn't believe in it we went and saw all those Chariots of the Gods and the UFO movies in the 7s and always there was a Solina in the background with a face shifter and and so I associate like all of the excitement of you know UFOs in outer space and Bermuda Triangle and all that and all all while like hearing the Selena strings in the background with that Ensemble so I I love that sound and you love super tra right we figured that out both pink Floy they use that stuff too absolutely right you know and the first time I I remember I was on a bus in in mid 70s and someone just said here listen to this and put uh Jean Michelle jar oxygen on right like like I had no idea that that it existed and I was like I need more of this this exactly that you know actually in order to to make all these these thingss we had to um rebuild a lot of the old semiconductors but you can't buy them bbds you can't buy them really anymore and all the vcos and V CFS and the magic is really in those components right unless you really built them or rebuilt them you will never get that sound so uh we invested a lot of money in rebuilding these chips we have a company called cool audio which actually is dedicated to making semiconductors and if you put all the commercial aspects to it it's basically crazy to do this right but uh there's a there's a say that Um passion is the essence of life because it makes you do things any rational person would never do and I think that's the best definition I heard about passion that's fantastic that's fantastic Daniel's office is next to mine and it's not uncommon for him to burst through the door saying you got to come and check this out and you've done that several times with s which which is your favorite oh the most recent just the uh the ubx just having 16 voices back when you couldn't have too many analog voices because it was too expensive right I would say you know what if you if you need more than five voices you're not arranging very well I said listen listen to a Steely dance song Nobody's playing 16 note chords you know it's very well arranged but then when you actually have the luxury of having 16 pairs of analog oscillators it it has to do with just the little bit that Trails on in the end and if you're running an arpeggiator and then all of a sudden you just bring the release up and those old old voices are just coming or you layered them right yeah right yeah and of course a layer you know people are like why does a synth have to have 256 voices it's like man you layer eight layers and you're going to get voice stealing and all 16 work every time you turn it on unlike a real yeah yeah I I can tell you I mean that's a labor of love our UK team Italian team been working on this for literally five years and to get the essence out of I mean of the whole circuitry I'm really really proud to say we we really really replicated that that circuitry that sound and we had like 20 beta testers who had the original and we didn't let go until that thing was per perfect um again you put a commercial number to this it's crazy right we should never done this but this is one of the sins that I loved when I grew up and I just had to do it it's nice to see when people appreciate it play music and then you listen to the customers when when they publish the music and say it was worth it I know a lot of friends and fans um who would want me to say Matrix expander I'd second that we hear you we hear you what are the ideas for the the synthesizers that you don't come from do you drive those or how do you choose what's going to be next that's a very very good question we believe that the customers is everything like Sweet Water right we both customer obsessed we literally are so we communicate constantly on on Facebook and other other social media pages and ask customers what do you want right we have a very simple say it doesn't matter what we think you tell us what we should build and there's basically literally rankings where people said well you know that's a poll which one we should do first and that's basically it right and in many cases as we say you know even if you sell only a few it doesn't matter we have not invented synthesizers nor would we ever claim but hopefully people will remember us for having brought all these Jewels back to life right right because right now how much would this stuff cost I mean you must have invested oh yeah lot a fortune yeah but um then only a few people can afford those and I think it's it's important to make them available accessible to people who do not have Deep Pockets right right and I think that's something we we strongly feel about and that's the purpose why we exist right that's been your philosophy for forever I guess I remember the motto twice as many features at half the cost was uh was it and and giving access to customers clearly that uh these these kind of of instruments to your customers clearly that that also feeds your passion it makes you excited I mean it's fun to watch how excited you get about that absolutely absolutely I mean you have to have a purpose you need to have a reason to get up and it can't be money can't be business I don't care right it's about doing something for customers and if you do that and you know this very well then people will reward you right profit and money and all this stuff is a is a consequence but it's not a purpose right and we have a very simple say that um the way we price our products is that we look at the cost and we add a small profit on top of it and that's the sales price so we don't go out like most competitors said you know how much could I charge and get away with it we say it doesn't matter we just take the cost add a small margin and that's the sale price customers will appreciate it and you have a long-term or a lifetime customer and that's what matters that's what we're all about right you mentioned accessibility with these instruments um you know I I always remind people because I I teach a lot of students right and I always explain the synthesizer was never meant to be a keyboard instrument it is an instrument and keyboard is one of the many controllers you could put to it right but but unfortunately from the day that the the mini mode came out like all of a sudden everyone thought you had to be a piano player you know you take an instrument like the system 55 or you know especially the 2600 it's like anybody who has an opinion about sound can enjoy playing with these instruments you don't have to be classically trained you know and so part of part of the price coming down I I really believe it lets people who otherwise couldn't justify it well I could buy this synth if I had gigs five times a week or if I was in a studio or this or that but it's like these are low enough price get a synth just because it's really fun to have a s absolutely and the joy to explore you connect something something here right and he does something else and you don't have a patch so later on right you know that it's a it's a it's a snapshot of a sound you may never get back and that's a whole different experience than just recalling a preset at times right I talk a lot to customers and they share that with me and said actually they don't want to have patch memory for exactly that reason because they know it's it's a momentum they enjoy that sound and then tomorrow is something different but always get a high res recording of it just in case you want to use it later yeah it's it's a it's very very um fascinating and fascinating for me to see how young people now ReDiscover this right and how they use these sins in a very different manner right and uh how they start to to explore the the gift of music and through that then start to play other instruments or try other synthesizers and and hopefully you know have a lifelong relationship with music yeah fantastic and that to me bringing this these sense to to Children is something that I feel very passionate about as you know we have synthesizers starting at $49 right and my goal is to make synthesizers for $99.90 so we can make these accessible to to kids in in in poor countries right and not just a VST but actually Little Hardware device you can put in your headphone as long as you possibly can go right we're looking at the next synthesizer for $9.99 potentially give them away for free as we have done before we we donated the 1500 synthesizers and actually try to figure out where the areas are where people never get anything so we spent the year figuring out the most rural areas around the world from Nepal to l America we made it a point to find out where these little uh you know schools and and orphanages are and uh it was a great experience when you see the videos that come back and the pictures come back with smiling kids that's something I want to do for the rest of my life right really awesome Brendan final comments or questions I just think we're all lucky to have grown up when synthesizers were new right I you know I don't know that everybody has that kind of experience when every day there's a song that comes out with a new sound that no one's ever heard before and perhaps one more thing it's fascinating when you see young kids now starting to listen to the 80s music it's it's it's the the 360 again and how they get fascinated the sound was raw it was not overproduced as it is sometimes today and I find it wonderful that people start to appreciate the old music right I grew up with Manhattan Transfer and with with uh earthwind and fire and the stuff and to this day I just love that stuff right and hopefully that music has some form of a comeback together with the synthesizer sounds right final thoughts comments questions just uh can't wait to see what's next right now I have an ms5 in my office and uh each time I I decide okay I'm going to leave this because I'm going to roll on this and then I do some I like oh it's even better okay I'm going to roll on um but that is a really fun scn the friend of mine has the original and the the sliders have all worn out and everything's going bad and so it was really something to play a new one of those it was very difficult to design that product because it uses mostly discrete components it's a high impedance design so it's very difficult to lay out the PCB because there's a lot of interference so we have probably 12 or 15 board spins and always comparing it with the original yeah since you mention it head scratcher that's awesome thanks so much for sitting down with us today I want to put big controversy to rest I've heard it said one way in the room I usually say it the German Way I've heard how you say it what is the proper way to say your last name just call me ulie iie you're not going to give it away are you no I don't care I don't care as long as you spell my name right there you go thanks so much thank you for supporting us and supporting me I I really appreciate it fantastic great to see we're in a mission here I will not stop until my last breath well I think that says it all and we'll wrap it up there thanks for joining us today Daniel Fischer brandan Murphy oie baringer or baringer whichever way you want you choose and I'm Mitch Gallagher from Sweetwater thanks cheers