The reason why people are so skeptical and they lack trust is because as a society, we have become conditioned to be marketed and sold to all the time. If you can't help the prospect understand what their real situation is, how do you build a gap to where they want to go? They don't really know where they're at.
So the salesperson, it's your job to help them overcome that fear of change. What's up, Wellbidders? Today, I have one of the best sales trainers in the world. His company was ranked number four by Selling Power magazine out of all sales companies, period.
He's the number one sales trainer in B2C. And today we're going to talk about how you can sell an unsellable generation. Jeremy Miner. Hey, Ryan. Thanks for having me on the show.
I was on here. I looked it up. I was on here a little bit over a year ago.
I think it was like July of like over a year ago. So thanks for having me back on. What do you want to know? What should we talk about? What do you want to talk about today?
Well, dude, you know, I really enjoyed our last conversation. People loved it. Did they?
And then the comments were great. And then we had you out for WealthCon. People loved your presentation at WealthCon.
And so I'm happy to get you back. But I know you have a book out, you know, it's just like a new model of selling to an unsellable generation. And I think that, yeah, people are much harder to sell these days. I think people are way less trusting, way more skeptical.
Sure. Like, what do you see? Well, yeah.
So the book is The New Model of Selling, Selling to an Unsellable Generation. A co-author, a good friend of mine, Jerry Acuff, who owns a sales consulting firm on the East Coast. And, you know, the reason why people are so skeptical and they lack trust is because as a society, we have become conditioned to be marketed and sold to all the time, right? So, like, you wake up in the morning, besides going to the bathroom, what's the first thing you do?
I'm going to look on my phone. You get on the phone. your social media, right?
And you see what you see ads trying to sell you something, right? So you're automatically, it starts right when you wake up, uh, you, you go into your kitchen, you, I don't know, you get some coffee, whatever you do, you turn on the TV, you see commercials trying to sell you something. You get in the car to come to work, turn on the radio.
You hear ads trying to sell you something. You drive down the road, you see billboards trying to sell you something, right? Uh, you.
you get to your office, you probably get back on social media and your aunt is, you know, pitching her latest, greatest MLM opportunity. So you're constantly being sold to all the time. So as a society, human beings, we built up these defensive mechanisms in our brain that as soon as we feel someone is trying to sell us something, it's like we go into this fight or flight mode, right?
Where that wall of resistance comes up. So that's why we live in a, a unsellable generation now. you learn the right techniques to get them to let their guard down, selling becomes actually fairly easy because, you know, I think people, I don't know who said it famously, but people love to buy.
They just don't like to be sold, you know? So as a guy who's, you know, a marketer and a sales guy and everything else, to me, it's like selling begins with marketing. Yeah.
How much do you think that that's true? I think it helps. I think it helps.
My second career, Cisco, I was in B2B enterprise. So I sold debt relief services and there wasn't really that much marketing. They would get some companies that would call in and request quotes or something, but most of it was cold calling. But yeah, if you can definitely have marketing assist you with that to get, let's say buyer leads from one of your SLOs or something, that's a great lead. If they've spent twenty to a hundred bucks before your reps even call them that's an amazing lead or if you got leads a book on your calendar so i'd buy definitely if you have a great marking system that is only going to help you for sure What do you got to do to basically break through to this generation of, you know, when you're selling anything?
I think it's really, and I don't even know if it's just this generation. I think it's any generation in the past. I think people who knew how to do this just had an advantage over others who didn't.
And I know it's going to sound kind of crazy, but most of you getting the prospect to let their guard down is not actually the words you say. It's just how you say those words. It's your tonality, right? We talked a little bit about tonality when I was here. But your tone is how the prospect interprets.
your intention behind everything you say and you ask, right? So if you get a cold call, so let's say you get a cold call and the prospect's like, yeah, is this Ryan? Hey, Ryan, this is James Miller with XYZ company.
Hey, the reason why I was calling you was, and it sounds like this, like flatlined, what instantly goes off in your mind in about what, six to 10 seconds? This guy's a sales pitch. Telemarketer or something, right? So instantly, you didn't even really hear the words, you just heard their tone.
And your tone triggers fight or flight mode. It goes into your survival part of your brain. So give me an example. Let's say you're walking across the street.
You hear somebody scream, like a lady just scream. Instantly, you go like this, like, am I safe? Right?
So that's your survival part of your brain. A lot of behavioral signs, different names, but let's call it your reptilian part of your brain. You've probably heard that. So instantly, you hear the sound, that tone.
So you instantly, you're like this, am I safe? And then instantly, it goes into the second part of your brain. A lot of people call that the midbrain, where it's trying to interpret. what's going on.
And then that goes into your neocortex, which is your problem solving part of your brain. And that's where you're like, oh yeah, she's just yelling at her son to be safe crossing the street. I'm okay. Right.
And that happens like, you know, in a few seconds, but the first part of you reacting is simply the tone of voice. Or if somebody calls you like, hey, how's it going, Ryan? Like, I'm so excited to talk to you.
Like, do you have two minutes? We can talk about my XYZ solution. You're like, oh, salesperson.
What do you got? Or not interested. So you're instantly triggered.
So if I called, I'm like, yes, is Ryan there? Yeah, right, right. It's James, James Miller.
You asked us to call you back, and I'm calling an outbound lead. So I'm using that familiar tone. Yeah, it's James, James Miller.
I'm holding a copy of your property taxes on your home there at 75. Will Lane, I was wondering if you could possibly help me out for a moment. See, kind of like a confused tone, and I have that familiar tone, right? So you ever got a call from somebody and they're like, yeah, Ryan, hey, it's Amy.
Amy Smith, how are you? And I'm like, yeah, I think I know you. Yes, and because her tone sounds familiar, you would never say. who is this?
You're like, Hey, I'm doing good. How are you? And your brain is like, who's Amy Smith? Who's Amy Smith? Does my wife know her?
Does, did I meet her at church? Like what's your brain is constantly going like this. This is me.
Anytime I see anyone in public all because she used a familiar tone. Yeah. Right. So your tone is really how to, you can start to get that process to get your prospect to like, keep their guard down and like, just make sure the guard doesn't come back up. So to me, it just seems like the first step of any of this, especially if, uh, it's an outbound for sure like we gotta just build this familiarity with them right out the gate before we ever get into this pitch yeah well you do it's like if if one of our guys are are calling like yeah is this is this john yeah john it's uh it's uh it's peter uh peter peter elks jeremy minor team seventh level you you asked us to call you looks like you just got the i think it's the black book of questions.
You paid the $27 to, you know, learn how to sell more. Right. So it's just kind of like start with a familiar tone and you're kind of like, you're verbal pacing out the question and you're getting them into that results-based thinking as a sales training company, what's the end result of people purchasing from us.
They want to learn techniques to sell more. Right. So it's all about just, it's almost like when I say use a confused tone, I don't mean like you're confused, like you have dementia, like you're, you're 95 and you're suffering from dementia confused.
And it means like. You're not quite sure what's going on, but it kind of pulls people and triggers curiosity in certain contexts. You're not going to go through your presentation and be like, oh, I don't know how it works. I'm not talking about that.
But in certain contexts, if you want to get the prospect to let their guard down or even open up emotionally, a confused tone actually helps you do that. So let's say you're, because you specialize in real estate investing and stuff. So let's stay in that inch. That's a big space we train in. Real estate is actually the second biggest space we're training now.
But it's residential agents, commercial agents, and then investors. Got it. What would be the first, just out of curiosity?
Out of a curious tone. Out of a curious tone. Life insurance is our biggest industry. We're in 161 different verticals now, and the subcategories are gorgeous of those. But yeah, life insurance, biggest one, and then real estate.
Wow. The same biggest one. So anyways, going back, I lost my train of thought.
So let's say that you own a home, and we'll stay in your industry. Right, and- your, I don't know, your wife took off and she made half the income and now you can't afford that mortgage payment and you're about to go into foreclosure a couple months, right? And let's say after halfway through that conversation, you kind of open up emotionally and you're like, oh my gosh, like this is so stressful.
Well, most salespeople would be like, oh, I'm so sorry. And then they would ask the next question on their script. But what we would train them to be like, stressful. Or, oh, how do you mean by stressful?
See how I lowered my tone into that concern tone, a tone that shows empathy. So what that does, I can just literally repeat back any emotional word. Like if you use like, I'm frustrated, I'm annoyed, I'm stressed, I feel pressure, I feel tension or confused.
You just repeat the word. You just repeat the emotional word. And what happens, you're automatically gonna see what they do. They'll just spill the beans. Because what happens is their subconscious triggers and they're gonna start to feel like, And it says, oh, he didn't understand what I meant by stress.
I need to explain that better. And what happens is they'll be like, oh gosh, yeah. And they'll just emotionally dump and explain. And I always say this, you know, what are the two biggest emotional drivers that causes a human being to want to change? It's pain and the fear of future pain.
So if you can help the prospect relive their pain of their current situation or even their past history and then have a fear of future pain, They don't feel any need to change. And when they feel no need to change, that's why you get tons of objections. That's why they don't buy.
That's why they don't take your offer in your space. You with me on that? Yep.
Yeah. Okay. It's all about getting them to relive the pain. Right. So you're getting pain really quickly out the gate.
It depends. You're not getting it like necessarily in the first couple of minutes, but as you get into the body of the conversation, you're really starting, you know, we train companies in all industries how to ask what we call NEPQ connection questions. You know, NEPQ stands for neuroemotional persuasion questions.
So connection questions help get the prospect to let their guard down, right? Then we want to go into situation questions to help the prospect really understand what their real situation is because most don't. Because if you can't help the prospect understand what their real situation is, how do you build a gap to where they want to go if they don't really know where they're at? Now, as you know, a lot of salespeople, like when you call a homeowner, right?
Let's say that you used to be on the phones or your salespeople do that or whatever. Or let's say that you're offering, because you train people how to do this, right? You have coaching programs.
So let's say that one of your reps. calls, right? A prospect. And that prospect has a nine to five job.
And they've seen you on YouTube, they've been following you and they're like, man, I really want to learn what Brian knows. I really want to learn real estate. Well, you're not really selling them a coaching program.
You're selling, obviously, the results of what that does, which can give them the skills where they could maybe become a full-time investor like you and have time freedom, right? But Even though they want that, at the core, every human being, we all have a fear of change. Okay? So even though we say we'd like to change, we all have this fear because we don't know what's on the other side. So that person that has that nine to five, they want to change.
They don't like their job. They want to get out of it, but they don't know what, they don't know what's on the other side. They don't know if what Ryan is offering is really going to do it. They still have that fear, right?
So the salesperson, it's, it's your job to help them overcome that fear of change. How do you do that? Because that is the biggest objection I see. Yeah. With when it comes to education and a new opportunity.
We don't really get those objections with the homeowners as much. They're just like, yo, I want to sell the home. How much can you give me? That's usually how it goes down. But with potential students, to your point, they're like, man, I'm not making enough money.
My job's not providing. I've heard real estate could be the thing. I don't know what to do. I don't know if I'm cut out for it. Their fear comes in multiple.
Is Ryan legit? Am I good enough? Because it's your salespeople's job.
to analyze those phrases because those are red flags right so when you hear a red flag you oh what would cause you to feel like you can't do real estate if we have other clients even in your area that are doing real estate yeah so it's analyzing what they just said and it's really reading their tone because i i always say don't you have to listen to what the prospect means not just what they say those are two very different things Right. So if you get to the end, let's say they're, they're, you know, asking some type of question to close them. And they're like, you know, do you feel like this could be the answer for it?
And they're like, yeah, yeah, sure. So clearly a lot of people would be like, okay, let me try to get started. But they have, they still have that fear there.
They haven't overcome. And so more than likely they're going to get an objection or, you know, they're going to be like, oh, I don't have my card with me and let me go upstairs. And then. They don't come back or you see what I'm saying. But what I heard is uncertainty in their tone.
So I'm like, oh, hold on. You didn't, you didn't send self-sure about that when I should, what's, what's going on? You know, and I use that soft, like concern tone, you know, a tone that shows. empathy, right?
Because that causes them in that circumstance to really have more trust to open up to me rather than like, you didn't seem very sure about it. What's happening? You know, now I'm going to get them defensive.
Hold on. You seemed a bit hesitant when I asked you that question. What's really going on?
Well, I'm just concerned because, you know, my aunt tried one of these real estate programs, you know, a couple of years ago and she said it's a scam. Oh, what program is she in? And see, now I'm clarifying and probing, right?
So I'm finding, I'm analyzing that concern and I'm going to help them overcome whatever that concern is. So at what point would you ever really add, let's say enthusiasm and like, maybe going more like to the point and with authority? Because it seems like a lot of what you're saying is the confused, the empathetic, the questioning. So those are just circumstances you're going to use those tones. Like you're always assertive.
Like if I lean in, if a prospect is not moving forward, I'm like, John, can I ask you something? See, I don't sound timid there. I'm still assertive, but I sound like I care for you. Yeah. Right?
What's really holding you back? Right? But I'm not going to use a concerned tone the entire conversation. There's other questions I'm going to ask in a curious tone. Right?
Okay. So walk me through. What do you do for work? What do you do for a living?
See, that's a curious tone because I'm finding factual data, right? I'm talking about when you're like, got them on any, like you're trying to pull out emotions. That's when you use more of a concern tone. And if you're, let's say cold prospecting or outbound lead dialing, okay.
Cause these people don't necessarily know, you know, the rep's name and exactly when they're going to call. I'm going to use like, oh, you know, a little bit more of a confused tone. Like I said, it's not a confused tone where you have dementia, but it's a confused tone that you're not quite sure if this is the right person to talk to, especially if I'm cold calling.
Yeah. Okay. But there's other parts of the conversation where I might use a challenging tone. So let's go back to your coaching.
So what happens if you don't do anything about this and you have to stay in your nine to five the next three, five, even 10 years from now? See, that's a challenging tone. I default to that when I'm talking to people.
You don't have a challenging tone every question. No, I know. I like to, and I'm not on sales calls, but when I do talk to people at events and stuff and they're on the fence and there's, I'm like, dude, if you don't do it, what's going to happen? Explain to me what's going to happen after this.
And there's certain circumstances you can do that for sure. But you got to remember, you have the authority already because they already view you that way, but your sales people don't have the same authority. Now that doesn't mean that, They can't do that.
See, here's the thing. You can do that if you've built enough of a gap, enough trust there and emotion opened up, you can challenge them like, hey, what's really gonna happen if you don't do anything about this? Like, I'm dead serious. And I'd probably do that to a guy.
I wouldn't do that to a woman, okay? So it's all contextual based on how the conversation's going. Like I could be a salesperson and use that tone if I needed to in certain context. The point is you're not like Tim, like, oh, um.
Are you interested in buying? I hope that you like what we did. Like, you're not like that.
You're not going to sell anything like that. No, no. So it's all going to be contextual, you know, whatever they're telling you, you got to be able to respond with the right tone. And it's not even necessarily the right words, because it seems like in most cases, you're just asking them another question in a different tone.
Yeah, it just depends. Like I said, when we teach NEPQ to companies, which I think you guys are even, you guys have us, I think I looked you up, you're in our fundamentals course. It's more of the beginning entry level stuff, not the advanced, advanced stuff, but it's a good start.
It's all contextual based on what you're hearing from the prospect. So we teach frameworks, right, where we show you how to tie NEPQ into what you sell. But, you know, connection questions. What do I use them for? I use them to a couple reasons.
Three reasons, actually. I want to get, first of all, I need to get them to let their guard down. So how do I connect to them where they let their guard down?
Number two, how do I take the focus off me, immediately put it on them? Right? That's important.
I don't want to be sitting there where they're like, well, how much is it going to cost? Or can you tell me about it? And now the salesperson's like put into defensive mode where he's like telling them and there's no gap there. And number three, I have to get the prospect into results-based thinking quickly over price or cost-based thinking. So let's say they book on the calendar of one of your salespeople.
Okay. So, okay. So can you, can you hear me, John? Okay. And here's the, here's the tactic.
If they come and their video is off, cause you probably do a lot of virtual appointments on Zoom, the guys do. You never want, I hear a lot of salespeople be like, Hey, can you turn your video on? I really like to see who I might be working with.
That is really creepy. Especially if it's a woman, like they're going to be like, we're weirdo. Right? So what you can do, like, here's where you use a confused tone. Hey, can you, um, can you hear me?
Okay. Okay. Good. And Hey, um, um, Can you see me? Because I'm having a hard time seeing your video.
Is it broken? Oh, and a lot of times, no, no, no, it's not broken. And they'll just go for it because they feel embarrassed. And even if they don't, they'll be like, oh, no, it's not broken.
I just like to keep it off. Well, what's going on over there? You in your pajamas. It's 2.30 today, John. What are you doing over there?
What's going on? You know, I can get away with it. See, that's a playful tone.
Yeah, yeah. So that playful tone, I'm not doing that to be a comedian or just trying to be funny. I'm doing that for a disarming technique.
Because what happens when you use a playful tone, it causes them to laugh. It releases dopamine in their brain. that actually lets their guard down so they feel more comfortable and ease.
So there's reasons why I'm using the tone because it's doing different things to their emotions. Yeah. It's actually what you learn when you go to acting school. So you go to acting school, they teach you even how to use your facial expressions to trigger different emotional drivers in the audience to make sure that you keep watching the show. I mean, who's your favorite actor, actress?
I mean... give me one who's your don't tell me i never watched tv i've never watched you know what's funny is since covid i haven't like gone to the theater much i used to go to the theater all the time yeah yeah i did i have noticed that yeah now i don't go as much and hollywood's not uh releasing too many movies these days you know they stream on netflix and amazon yeah like they're always out like mark walberg has a movie on netflix every other month it feels like yeah right yeah so i like mark let's use mark walberg he's out here in vegas i mean so what's your favorite like one of his favorite movies with him he's got a lot of He's got a lot of great ones, serious ones and funny ones, you know? Yeah.
What was one of his recent ones? He just did the one with the rock I was watching. Yeah. Dwayne Johnson.
So let's just, but imagine if Mark was in that show and I don't know if I, I don't think I've seen that. I don't know if it was that like a, is that a comedy or is it like more? So it's a comedy. So imagine if Mark, I don't know character. So I'll give you an example.
Let's say it's your Tom Cruise. You're in Mission Impossible. Everybody knows that. Okay. Easy.
So imagine Tom Cruise is like. talking like this with a monotone voice the whole show. All right, Della, we've got to go down to the van because there's a CIA agent there. And if the CIA agent doesn't see us there, we could get shot. And then headquarters would really not like us because if they didn't like us, then we wouldn't be able to have the show.
And at that point, we wouldn't be able to. After three minutes, she'd be like, I can't watch this. It's just flatline monotone, right? But you're seeing him in different contexts, different situations. He's, hold on, what actually happened?
How are we going to go down there though? Like his facial expressions are communicating a message to you, right? His tone is changing, right?
It's not the same tone for the same words, right? His body language is all communicating different emotions in your mind that keeps you engaged in the show. Right.
That's why he gets paid $30 million for him. And rightly so, he should. Yeah. Because it takes a lot of skill to learn that stuff. Yeah.
You're not born with that kind of stuff. So what do you think about, you know, you were talking about price earlier. Some prospects are like, hey, what's the price?
Yeah. Right out the gate. How are you even setting, I guess, expectations and everything out the gate?
Because I think that that's one of the things I try to tell our guys. Like, hey, let's set expectations for how quick the call should be, what the goal is, the objective. Do you believe in that? Well, give me an example, like word for word. What do they say?
Okay, so just staying in the education space. If you book a call, then clearly it says, hey, this is a 30-minute, 45-minute call, whatever the case is, right? But.
let's just say we're outbounding somebody who bought a book or bought a trial or something like that. It's like, Hey, you know, this is Ryan with the team, you know, and we'll talk in a curious tone, whatever. Right.
And it's like, Hey, do you got 15 minutes to chat real quick? I wanted to go over what you just signed up for. Make sure you get everything you need, all those things. I'd be careful saying, do you have 15 minutes to talk?
Because it'd be like, okay, so let me give an example. When somebody calls you and they're like, Hey, It's Jeremy. Do you have a couple minutes to talk right now?
Unless you have a lot of trust for me, even if you do, you're probably thinking like, oh, what does he want? What does she want? So instantly, I don't know if I'd want to put him in that mode. Here's what I'd rather do to disarm them.
So like, yes, is John there? John, it's Ryan, Ryan Pineda with XYZ Company. You got our book about how to...
to make money in real estate and, you know, X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z, whatever, whatever you say then. And I apologize, John, I've only got a few minutes before my next appointment. So you're going to see that right after, because it helps them get their guard down because people don't want to stay on the phone, right? Because they think if you're going to stay on the phone, that you could sell them something.
It's that fight or flight mode. So right after that opening statement you did, I'd probably say, and I wouldn't say the 15 minutes I'd say, Oh, and I apologize. I've only got a few minutes to talk before my next appointment and then go into it. So rather than saying, Do you have 15 minutes?
I'm going to say, oh, and John, I apologize. I've only got a few minutes before my next appointment. Ryan always has us reach out to make sure you got everything, answer any questions to make sure you're on the right track.
So instead of saying the time, I'm actually going to downplay it and say, I only have a few minutes before my next appointment. And why do I do that? Because it makes me look what?
It makes me look like I'm busy. I've got lots of appointments. There must be a lot of people that want this thing, right? So it raises your status. And number two, they don't try to get you off.
Because I'm assuming if you say, do you have 15 minutes to talk right now? There's going to be quite a few that say, no, I don't. Maybe call me back later today at five.
And then your rep calls them back at five and magically they don't answer. You see what I'm saying? Right. So it's like you're putting them in that mode to, not that it's bad. It's just like, I'd rather like disarm them by saying, oh, and I, John, I've only got a few minutes before my next appointment.
Ryan just has this call. And here, the thing is five, 10 minutes in. They're never going to say, you said you only have two minutes because now you're getting them emotionally involved in what they just purchased.
So that's what we would teach your team how to do for sure. That makes sense. So what about the whole price thing? Like when people are just so, hey, what's the price? What's the price?
Well, in your mind, what would trigger the prospect's brain to ask that question in the first two minutes? Well, on the education side, it doesn't happen because they've already bought something. Yeah.
And so with our, you know, new funnel, they already bought something. And so now it's just more so like what you just described. Hey, if we can help you out, great.
Hey, why'd you join? What were your goals? Oh, these were your goals. Okay, cool. Well, you probably don't know, but we have this other thing as well.
Sure. That would be good for you. Yeah.
And then they're going to understand. Yeah. So you're talking about like, if you're calling a homeowner and they're like, hey, what's the... Well, you know, actually let's talk about that. Because that's an interesting thing that's been different for us now.
is before we would do this long 30 minute thing of digging into pain and all this stuff before we ever got to price. And obviously there'd be lots of homeowners who wanted price out the gate. And now we actually just go for price right out the gate.
It's a whole new thing we're doing. Why do you do that? Because it's just converting way better.
So maybe the pain they were trying to dig out wasn't working so well. Right. No, because human beings, The thing is, like I said, the two biggest emotional drivers that cause the human being to want to change are pain and the fear of future pain. So right now, if you came over a sledgehammer and you broke my leg, that's really painful. So I'm going to want to change right now because my leg really, really hurts.
So I would be considered a lay-down sale. But what about all the other people? You see what I'm saying? If we just go straight for the price, you're going to get a lot of people, but more the lay-down people who are ready to go.
What about the people that are kind of on the fence? So let me give some context. So before, we had a model where we would go on appointments in person.
And so ISAs would set it for the OSAs, and that was the model. And so the ISA would try and dig and say, hey, you know, okay, we got to see the home to give you a price and all that stuff. And so that was one. That's not really digging emotionally, though.
Yeah, and it's on the OSAs guide, you know, when they're at the appointment to do all that. Yeah, I get it. That makes sense.
But now… We have different marketing where they can submit for an offer and the promise in the marketing is like, hey, we'll get you a cash offer today on your home right now. Yeah, okay. And so what our guys are doing now is the moment they call them, you know, they're like, hey, you know, so and so they're like, hey, you know, you submitted your property, yada, how much do you want for it? And like what we found is it disarms them because they're never used to being like, ask that out the gate. How much do you actually want it?
Well, 275. Let's see what we can do. Yeah. And you don't have to necessarily give the price.
Right. That's a good disarm. Yeah. It's a, so that's an example of a pattern erupt. Yeah.
You're interrupting what they're used to. You're interrupting their pattern. Cause every other person's like, yeah.
Hey, how's it go? Why do you want to sell the home? What's going on? Tell me about what's.
And we're just like, so what do you want for it? Yeah. That's a good pattern to wrap. And then disarms them. And then you can go into more of the pain questions.
But yeah, you wouldn't want to ask them. Those type of other questions that they were asking before, they're questions that obviously the prospects know what you're trying to do. So they're going to be defensive against that.
So you can't start off asking that. type of question. Yeah, that makes more sense.
But yeah, patterns are good. But let's say, because here's the reason why I asked you like, what would cause a prospect to say, hey, can you just tell me the offer and I'll tell you if I'm interested right off at the bat because how would you really know what you could offer it to them when you don't really know much about the house yet, right? That'd be hard to do. So the problem is, is like that's not something that they, you know, is it something that they woke up in the morning? They're like, you know what?
When that guy from Ryan's office calls me at 3.30 today, I think about two minutes in, I'm gonna go into fight or flight mode and I'm gonna just say, hey, tell me what you can give me and I'll tell you if I'm interested. It's not like they planned that out, right? That's a triggered reaction based off what the salesperson is saying and how they're using their tone.
It triggers. Remember I say we have defensive mechanisms in our brain that when we feel like we're being sold, we get triggered. That's a triggered reaction. Now, we would teach them how to disarm them.
That pattern up's really good. So keep that. But if somebody did say, hey, can you just tell me the offer on tape?
I'm interested, like right off the bat, you say, oh, yeah, we'll go through all that for sure. So you got to agree with them because I got to get them to let their guard down. I don't say, well, I can't now because you can't argue. I don't argue.
Oh, yeah, we'll go through all that for sure. It's not part of our process. Yeah.
Oh, we don't do things like that. Wait, click. Yeah.
So you got to go, oh, yeah, John, we'll go through all that for sure. I mean, it's really all going to depend on like the shape and condition of the property and some of the details. And once I understand all those different details, I can give you like a real offer.
Otherwise, it'd just be me throwing out some random number that might not even be good for you. You might be better off keeping the house. Would that help you if I did that for you? And then now they understand why you're asking the questions after that, right?
So it's just another disarming technique. Your pattern rupture is really good. There's just different pattern ruptures, disarming techniques you can use. Yeah.
It seems to me like the hardest part of all this is that first five, 10 seconds. Yeah, because their guard's up. but that's based off the salesperson's tone. It's all tone. It's all tone.
Your tone is how the prospect interprets your intention behind everything you say and ask. So let's, how old are your kids? You got younger kids, yeah?
Five, four, and one. Yeah, I don't know if we talked about this last time. So let's say that you're, do you have a son too?
Yep, two sons, one daughter. So let's say your son is now 16. Fast forward a few years, he's 16. You get him a truck or whatever. And the first weekend he goes out with his friends.
And you get a call Saturday morning at 2.30 a.m. from the police department, the county jail. And they're like, Ryan, your son is down here. He was going 97 miles per hour in a 55 mile per hour zone.
All right. Come down here. You got to bail him out.
You're pretty pissed, right? You just bought him the truck. Let's say you come in there and you're like, and then you use this tone. And it's harder to do it sitting down.
But you come in there like, son, I'm so disappointed in you. What were you thinking? Now, what type of reaction is your son going to do based off your tone? He's going to have like shame and guilt.
Probably get defensive. Yeah. But dad, you don't understand.
But if I walked in and I'm like, I can say the words, I'm like, son, I'm so disappointed in you. What were you thinking? Now, what type of reaction am I probably going to get? Yeah, the truth. I'm so sorry, Dad.
Yeah, because I'm showing empathy. Now, he still knows I'm angry and I'm disappointed, but he knows I love him. I care for him.
So in that circumstance, that concerned tone is going to get him to let us guard. down where he knows I'm still upset. He's going to get in trouble, but at least he knows I love him rather than him getting defensive. And now we start fighting and maybe we lose our relationship.
Yeah. It's your tone. It's your tonality. Right. No, that makes a lot of sense.
So what do you see, you know, we're talking about sales training when it comes to prospects and the actual sell itself. One thing I've noticed that salespeople kind of mess up is the management side of sales. Yeah.
Like how often do you guys talk about that? Like managing your CRM properly and your follow-ups and all of those things? We do with the companies that we train. So we have training programs that actually teach them how to do all that.
Like how to manage KPIs, how to set clear KPIs, how to manage their data, you know, increase show-up rates. We have training for companies called sales maximization where we help them like with the wording of their emails, the text messages go out, show-up rates, you know, pipeline management. It just depends on the industry that we're training for that. But yeah, we have all that too. Got it.
So what do you think is best practice for leads that come in? Like, you know, lead comes in, should they call them immediately? Should they text them first? Should they double dial? Like, what's your philosophy on those?
So my philosophy is. It depends on the industry and the lead type. I don't want to get like a straight jacket interpretation.
Okay. So if you want to stay in like the education space. Yep. Let's stay in the education space. Let's say that they bought something.
Okay. So yeah, here's what I would do on your side. So let's say they bought an SL offer. They paid 50 bucks. Okay.
With that 50 bucks, one of two ways, I would either. ah, it's 50-50 on this. I would probably double dial that like right after the other, but on the second dial, if they don't pick up, I would leave a voice message. A lot of trainers would be like, don't leave any voice messages until they pick up. But the problem is, is like, they start to recognize that number and they just feel like it's a salesperson or telemarketer always calling.
Does that make sense? So after the second dial, like back to back, you're going to leave a voice message, but it's got to be a message that actually like, there's a benefit. So I might say for your industry, like, You know, hey, hey, Ryan, it's Jeremy Miner with Ryan Pineda's company. Looks like you purchased our XYZ book to really learn how to invest in real estate. And I just had a few minutes to get back to you before my next appointment.
You can reach me at this number, 555-6544. And like I said, I'll be available here for just a little bit today. You always got to put in there that you're just available here for just a little bit, because it triggers more urgency.
It triggers more. like you have a higher status rather than like you're just sitting by the phone waiting for them to call back. And then I would also text that type of message, but a little bit shorter for your industry.
So double dial, second dial if they don't answer, leave a voice message, a really good one that focuses on the result. Not just say, you purchased our book and I'm just getting back to you. You purchased one of our XYZ trainings to learn how to invest in real estate to make more money. you know, cause that's the end result or whatever. So see now there's like, oh yeah, I did that.
So I could make more money this, right. You know, so now there's an incentive to call back. Right. I see a lot of salespeople make that.
And then I would text something a little bit shorter to that prospect as well for your space. Right now, let's say if I'm in the life insurance space and you know, they bought, they use a lead vendor and they're using, they're calling age leads that are six months old that have been sold at 50 other agents. It's a little bit of a different process. So it all depends on the industry that you're actually working with.
Got it. So what do you think, you mentioned show rates. This is also a big thing in obviously the sales industry.
Yeah. You know, you got people who just self book, you got people who have setters booking calls, and they don't show up. Okay, yeah. So what do you guys tell salespeople to do in order to get higher show rates?
Higher show rates, a lot of that is just, so let's say that, okay, so let me give an example. Let's say that you're, you have an outbound team. And let's say they call, have like a five to eight minute conversation, and they book them in with a closer because I see that a lot in education space.
I don't know if you guys do that. Do you have like an outbound team that then books it into an inbound team or no? We used to. Okay. We used to do opt-ins, an outbound team would call them and set an appointment, but now we just have one team.
Okay. Yeah. So do you have like anybody, so outbound just does their own sets?
Yeah. Yep. Okay.
The biggest reason why somebody doesn't show up from that first call to second call is because the salesperson didn't build a big enough gap. So they don't feel any need. Got it. Right?
Like. If you, on that first call, if you just ask like a couple of basic questions and say, well, we got this thing and we can talk about it later. You got to remember like the prospect, there's so much going on in the world. Their tire goes flat the next day.
Their mom, you know, breaks their leg at the grocery store. Their spouse screams at them. I don't know.
And so stuff gets in the way and they don't really view your thing as that important because they didn't feel much need. Right. Right.
So, but if I get on that first call and let's say instead of spending five minutes, maybe I spend eight or nine and I build a little bit more gap and I bring out some emotion where they're like, oh shit, I really have this problem. What's the likelihood of them going to show is far higher. And at the very end, you want to do tie-down frames. A lot of salespeople don't know how to do tie-down frames. Explain the tie-down frame.
Because they're too scared. Well, tie-down frames is like, we call them tie-down frames. You could also call them identity frames where you're getting them to not want to be like that person. So for like a salesperson, our guys might say, now, hold on, now, hold on, John, you've already booked the appointment. Now, hold on, John.
Now, you're not going to be one of those salespeople that say they want to learn how to sell more and then don't even show up to the appointment to learn how to sell more. You're not going to be one of those guys, are you? Oh, God, no, I would never do that.
You see, I have to use a playful tone. If I'm like, no, you're not going to be one of those sales guys. See, that's weird.
But the playful tone, it almost makes them feel like they're embarrassed if they don't show up. right so you could use it for real estate hold on john hold on you i just want to make sure now you're not going to be one of those people you know who i'm talking about who say they want to learn how to invest in real estate and they want to get out of their job and then you just never show up for the appointment to learn how to invest in real estate you're not be one of those kind of people are you oh no i would never do that yeah you always get that reaction but you have to you have to talk fast when you do that and you have to use that playful tone because they'll laugh dopamine. And then what you always do is what we always make like little jokes.
Now, Hey, when you, when you show up, this is if you had like an outbound team to an inbound team, that's a two separate people. So we do a lot of that. We're like, Hey, now when you show up, cause you booked in with Dan, will you, will you tell Dan his hair's really nice?
We have this thing, like he's always worried about his hair and everything. So can you compliment on his hair? Like he really likes that. And no, it's funny. And when they'll get on and we'll laugh about it, we'll look at them like, Hey, uh, you know, uh, Ryan told me to compliment your hair.
It's really cool. And they'll start to giggle and laugh. And I'm doing that because it's also disarming the prospect at the same time. Yeah. But it also gives them something to remember.
Oh yeah, when I get on, I need to compliment the hair. So it's always, it's like on site. It's committing. It's committing.
It's just getting them to, you're tying it down to make sure they show up. Yeah. One thing I do as like a commitment technique is, and I don't know what the technical term for it is, but like I already start just talking about next steps.
you know, assuming they like, maybe it is assuming the close, but it's like, Hey, you know, our mastermind is going to be October, you know, third to the fifth. Yeah. You know, love to see you there. It's going to be amazing.
Yeah. And you know, can't wait. Yeah.
Even if they haven't committed. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it just depends if you've built, here's the thing, like assuming the sales good, but you still want to do too early in the conversation. Like if you do it too early and there's no trust, I usually do that at the end. Yeah, yeah, because you built more trust and credibility, so it works, right? But if you're like assuming the sale, like from the first question out of your mouth, especially with A-types, they're like, well, I didn't say I'm ready to buy it.
I'm still looking around. But if you build a gap, you know, help them find problems they didn't understand in that call where they feel like a need, you can be far more assumptive because you have more trust and credibility for sure. Right. You brought up another objection that people can't really handle very well, which is spouse.
You're talking about that. So how do you handle spousal objections? The spouse objection to me is not really, I don't see the complication. A lot of the spouse objection is just handling the beginning of the conversation or in the conversation, you're pre-framing it.
Okay, so let's just stick to education space with what you do. So let's say I'm in the conversation and I might halfway through it, I might stop and say, now, hey, does your... Does your spouse know you're on this call with me or are you on like a secret mission?
You just laugh like, oh no, no, she knows I'm on or, you know, whatever they say. How does your spouse feel about you having to commute back and forth for your job an hour each way? And I'll talk about the problem that, let's say I'm talking to a guy that he brought up. He might be looking for real estate because he's tired of commuting back and forth.
I'm just, whatever they say, I'm tweaking my questions based on the data they're giving me, right? Because that's where the prospect feels like you understand them. If you don't do that and you're just asking like questions on your script, they feel like inauthentic. They feel scripted.
They feel, they just don't feel real. They don't feel like you understand them. Right. So I'm going to take whatever that guy told me. Right.
And plug it into that. And I would say, so how did your spouse feel about you having to commute? back and forth each way an hour a day, right? So obviously they're not gonna like the negative. They're not like, oh, my spouse loves me being gone all the time.
You know, they're gonna be like, oh, she doesn't like that. So does she, I mean, does she want you to learn how to invest in real estate so you guys can make more money for the family, right? So I'm pre-framing this before I even get to that point.
Cause I'm like, yeah, she definitely wants me to invest in real estate, blah, blah, blah. Now let's say that concern comes back and they're like, see, when you start pre-framing it like that, you get less and less. objections like that.
A lot of salespeople, they just go to it and hope they don't get it at the end. I'm trying to like eliminate it. I'm trying to prevent the objection from happening.
So that's just pre-framing. Now let's say I get to the end and they still give me that. Oh yeah, that's not a problem. Now you had mentioned that she knew you're on here. Does she want you to invest in real estate or what would hold her back from you getting in the training to learn how to do that?
So I'm just asking questions like that. Okay. And then let's say if he's like, well, I don't know, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, because I'm concerned because, I mean, what happens if you go to her and she doesn't want you to get the funding to invest in the training to do this? Like, how are you ever going to get out of your job where you can actually become financially free without the training? Yeah.
Right? So, you know, a lot of times people are like, well, no, I would just do it anyways. You know, a lot of people, especially as a guy, sometimes women will say that too.
No, I would just do it anyways. Well, I don't want you sleeping on the couch tonight. I mean, really?
What happens if you go to them and they don't want you to get the funding? Like, how is this all going to change? And that's just a loop, right? I'm looping back around.
Now, if that still doesn't work, I'm going to do like different frames that we have. You ever heard of heavy is the hand that wears the crown? No. No. You can really only use this in like B2C.
You can't use that type of frame in B2B. You get slapped around in B2B. Yeah, I've thought about these frames. I forget what I call them.
Kind of like traps where it's like, all right. I'm going to get you to basically commit that spouse will not be an objection. And then, you know, money, it's like, hey, you know, you start to handle that side so that money cannot become an objection later. Yeah, it's just how you frame it, right? It's your wording, right?
If you're that blunt, you know, I know you wouldn't be that blunt with that, like, but if I'm framing it that way, how does your spouse feel about XYZ problem? Does she want you to keep having a human back and forth like that and being away from the family? But I'm doing that in the conversation, not at the end. Right. So I'm literally preventing the objection from happening in their mind.
But at the end, if I still can't resolve that and I try to do all that other stuff, I might say, have you ever heard of the heavy is the hand that wears the crown? No, I haven't heard it. Yeah, because in your mind, who is responsible in your family to provide for them? And especially when I'm talking to a guy, who in your family is really responsible to financially provide and really protect your family?
You soft concern tone, oh, that's me. So if you're responsible for doing that, Why are you putting that burden on her shoulders, making her responsible to make the decision for you to do that? But you have to really like, that's had to be a soft concern tone. Yeah. And sometimes, a lot of times it gets like, oh yeah, now they say you're right.
Like Chris Voss says, I've become pretty good friends with Chris, spoken on some other stages with him. That doesn't necessarily mean they're in. They say, you're right.
Well, I'm not sure if I'm right. Like who really is responsible? And I've looped back around with the same question because I got to get them to say like, yeah, it's me. Not say you're right.
They say you're right. Like Chris says in his book, Never Split the Difference, more than likely they know you're right, but they're still not going to do anything about it. And if I still can't get all of that, Then, you know, I set up an appointment to talk with the spouse. Some people, some salespeople are so funny in B2C. Like they get to the end and they try to do all that and they're like buy or die and they just ruin the lead forever.
But if I do all that and I still can't get them over, I might say, would it help you if I... I actually took a few minutes out of my calendar, maybe later today or tomorrow, and got your spouse on here and went over some of the questions that you guys might have. Would that help you if I did that for you guys?
Yeah, great. And most of the time, because I built such an emotional gap. They're in, they just logistically want to do that.
And you still make the sale. I don't understand some salespeople that don't understand that. They like, if I try everything and I'm starting to feel tension there where they're starting to feel pressure, it's not gonna go well for you at that point.
At that point, when I've tried everything, can't do it, I'm gonna book another appointment to talk with both of them because most of the time I can still close that deal. you know i don't want to kill the so is there any point where you ever would like kind of burn the boat and just throw like a hail mary that is either going to work or burn the lead what is that but give me an example of what a hammer is um maybe you're gonna use an ultimatum or scarcity and it's like hey this is gonna end today Sure, you could, but it's all based on the context. So if I built a big enough gap and all that stuff, I can do that, right? Because they trust me, right?
If I'm high pressure the whole time, the scarcity is rarely gonna work. It's like a numbers game at that point. but I could come in at the end. It's like, yeah, cause I'm, I'm concerned for you guys because I mean, for the people who are able to get their funding together, Ryan gives you like, I mean, it's not a ton.
It's only going to be like 30% off, but you know, typically that's why people, you know, they come in cause they don't want to have to pay the 30%. It's actually better for Ryan if you just pay the regular price cause it's 30% more for the same training, you know? So then you're just going to like, you're putting, your salesperson's putting themselves in the middle of you. the owner and the prospect.
It's actually better for Ryan if you guys pay the extra 30% for sure. See what I mean? So now the salesperson is doing them a favor, but not do it in a way where they're trying to pressure them, if that makes sense. There's just different ways you can build urgency without pressure.
Pressure very rarely works. That's why everybody says sales is a numbers game because high pressure tactics very rarely work, right? And if they do work on this prospect, a lot of times that's when those prospects buy it and then... recharge back or refund, or they put a deposit down and then they want their money back. They never came to grips with the decision.
Exactly. They were convinced externally. And that external pressure wears off when the salesperson's off the phone or off Zoom, right? So there's ways to build urgency that don't pressure.
It's like, there's a difference between getting the prospect to feel internal tension, where they start to feel like their problems are way bigger than they thought they did compared to putting external pressure on them. Internal tension stays because your questions have allowed them to feel that tension of, I want to change my situation. So it comes from them.
External sales pressure comes from the salesperson. When the salesperson gone, that wears off. It's the same concept.
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Bunch of boring stuff. No.
I mean, I think that everyone listening to this, obviously, if they're still here, I mean, there's probably some savage business owners and salespeople and, you know, they're like, man, this is great. So if you're listening right now, you know let us know in the comments but what you're taking away from this yeah but yeah let's let's switch gears a little bit so obviously you've built a massive sales training company i mean we've been talking about my team has i'm just the dude you're just the content guy i think last time you're just the founder now you know i've gotten demoted i was the ceo when i started then i was the chairman and i'm just nothing i'm just the founder you just make content is that pretty much you know which you know i train you know, there's other organizations that I train to do keynotes, uh, you know, do a bunch of, you know, group training calls for like our high, high end clients, you know, that are in our top tier programs and stuff. I mean, but in a lot of it is content.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, you know, you, you've built this company. Tell me about like what that was like, because a lot of people don't know your story, um, yeah. For, for becoming an entrepreneur, because you were selling, you know, for just normal companies?
I was an employee, yeah, for 18 years. Salesperson, I was a VP of sales, also a chief sales officer for the companies I worked for. I was in four different industries, two business to consumer, two business to business. So just...
Learned the lingo of all of it, basically. And retired in 2017 after about, yeah, almost 2018, 2017. I had about 18 years of sales career, close to that. And I don't know, got pretty bored. And about six, seven, eight months later, I started seeing all these gurus on Facebook. I wasn't even on Instagram then.
I didn't even know what IG was. Had no social media following at all. And I was on Facebook, and I started seeing these ads from the sales gurus. And they were talking about, oh, you got to say this, you got to say that.
And I'm like, God, if I would have sold that way, I would have made like 95% less than what I made. There's no, you know, like that is crazy. And you made millions as a sales guy.
Yeah. Yeah. It's just a normal W2 sales guy just selling it. There was two industries. I was 1099, but yeah, W2 or 1099. I just worked for the company.
Yep. But yeah, so I just, I was just like, you know, every, and everybody always told me like, you got to start your own sales training company. Ever since I was. probably three or four years into sales. I don't, I don't know why, but, um, so I was just like, maybe, maybe I should do this.
Do you think that they said that because you were just really good at it or you were also just a great teacher at helping everyone around you? Both. Like with my first, uh, corporate career with, uh, what is now known as Vivint, um, you know, is the number one salesperson in that industry.
You're talking tens of thousands. salespeople in that space. Explain what Vivint is for those who don't know.
So Vivint is, well, they were called Apex. Before that, I actually worked for a company called Pinnacle Security. And then like my last year and a half switched over to Apex, which then rebranded like a year later to Vivint. And like, if you watch the Utah Jazz, the Vivint Center, the orange, yeah, that's Vivint. So they had two exits.
The first exit was about three years after I left for like two, I could be off a little bit. So don't hate me if you're somebody from Vivint. I think it was like 2.7 billion. with, I think it was Blackstone.
And then about a year ago, they sold the rest of the other half of the company for like another nine some billion. So like 11 some billion. So a few dollars. So it's home security, like ADT. So they'd be ADT's chief competitor.
They're probably Vivint and ADT. Those are the two biggest companies. So that's my corporate career. You were selling home security. Selling home security systems.
How were you selling it? Were you knocking door to door? It was when I was in college.
I was still in college where I had my corporate career. I was like 21, 22, 23, 24. And yeah, I just stayed with it after college. And then probably about five and a half, six years in, I just kind of got bored. I was the vice president of sales for Pinnacle Security and then switched over to Apex, which is now Vivint and just did another year and a half and I was out because I wanted to do different things.
I just got tired of the industry. And so then I got into B2B enterprise, like debt relief services, had a pretty established career there for almost another six years, made a few coins. And then the next industry I got into, because I just got tired of that, was network marketing. Because I was like, you know, maybe I want to be my own boss.
And I went to this recruiting meeting. It's kind of how you started your own business. Yeah, I went to this recruiting meeting.
I'm like, yeah, this is great. And made a lot of money in network marketing. If you Google me, I'm still ranked as one of the top 50 network marketers.
with the income I made. And I was only in it for five years. I had a downline of close to 400,000 people in less than five years.
But I knew how to recruit and I would teach people how to recruit because in network marketing, it's the craziest thing. They'll be like, there's no selling. You don't have to sell. Just bring them to the meetings, bring them on the phone to your upline and they'll do all the selling for you. I'm like, that is why 99.9% of people fail in network marketing because you do have to sell.
You have to learn how to communicate the right way though. Because when I saw that industry and I'm like. okay, here are the two biggest problems that I solve.
People want to make more money and people want to have more time. How many people in the world want to make more money and have more time? Everybody.
I'm like, everybody's a prospect. Like my mind was blown that people struggled in network marketing, but it was the way they were taught how to sell, which is so cheesy and just doesn't work. Right.
And so I brought my skills in from how I was learning how to sell. And that's why it was really easy for me to recruit pretty much anybody and then teach them how to go and recruit. So explain that though, because there's a lot of people who, Or in network marketing of some form.
Like I know that a lot of these security companies and pest control and so like they all are building down lines and then they all, you know, for the most part, sell a product too. Yeah. So what were you doing on the recruiting front? How were you selling so many people?
That was easy. So what I did is I got a big mansion, first of all. Did you?
I did. I did this on purpose. Where was this at?
It was in Phoenix. Okay. So I got, it's down South Mountain. So I got a big mansion. It's about 14,000 square feet.
You just rented it or you bought it? I rented it. I rented it for two years because this is my whole strategy.
I'm like, how do I bring people to me? You're like Tai Lopez. As I did, I just, I got a big mansion. Okay. And we just started putting fillers out for networking parties for like, you know, come, business people come, network, learn from each other.
So that's what I started doing. And within a few months, I'd have two to 300 people at each one and we would do them twice a month. And then I would just recruit leaders, like business leaders. And it was the way you brought it up, right?
If you're like, hey, I'm doing this thing, blah, blah, blah. They're like, oh, you can't do that. But I'd almost keep it like, it was like a secret, like I didn't want to tell them about.
Does that make sense? So it's like- How'd you afford this? Was that part of it? Because I made a lot of money as a salesperson before.
I mean, I was- No, no, no. I'm saying, was that the question people would have to at these parties? They're like, oh, Jeremy, dude, this is your mansion? Will they ask me what I did for a living? Yeah, and they're like, how do you afford this?
Like, what do you do? What do you do for a living? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And I'd be like, well, it's not that big of a deal. You'd probably get bored. Like, probably what you do is way more fascinating.
Like, what do you do? I would like to have to be like, oh, gosh, you'd get bored if you knew what I do. It's like the most boring thing ever. Like, what do you do? And they would start to tell me.
Then they'd come back like, no, what do you really do? I'm like, well, I don't really like going over this with everybody because there's some people that I've worked with, some people I don't. And then I'd kind of go into it. And it was like they were just.
they were just like hooked because I didn't act like I cared to tell them I was detached. Does that make sense? Yeah. The more detached you are from the prospect, the more detached you are when you're out trying to date or whatever it is, it's far more likely that that person feels like you have a higher status to you because you don't seem desperate because they're always used to network marketers being desperate when you're out dating.
You're always used to the guy being desperate, right? They're... The prospect or using the salesperson to be desperate. It's just communication 101. So the less desperate you are, I hate to say this, the less attached you are.
Now that doesn't mean you're not there to make the sale. But you want to keep that to yourself. You keep that internal.
The moment it goes external where they feel that's what you're trying to do through your tone and your body language, that's when the defensive mechanisms, like I call it the spidey sense, goes off in your brain, your defensive reactions. So if they don't feel that way, if they feel like you don't really necessarily need them or care, they're far more drawn into you because they view you at a higher status. So I would just recruit people that came in and then I showed them how to recruit other people.
And then all of a sudden, there's 400,000 people there. That's crazy. What were you guys selling?
It was a debt relief product that would come in. It's like a financial services company, fixture finances, teach you how to budget, invest, just stuff like that. So was it like the network marketing Dave Ramsey?
I mean, not like just debt relief. It was like, you know, invest as well, but how to get out of debt. How to, you know, instead of having a 30-year mortgage, you know, have a 10-year mortgage, like reduce the interest, just things like that. Do you still make money from that?
No, no, I don't. No, after, see, because I got so big in that organization, my downline represented like 41% of the entire company. Whoa.
It was growing. And when I left, Reason why I left network marketing, and I love network marketing, just so you know, like we train a lot of network marketing companies, a lot of network marketers, it's great. But the companies I was around, I just felt, I just felt like I, as I got that big, I kind of got the inside scoop, right?
Because the owners would, you know, wine and dine you and you'd be around, you would know kind of what was going on. And I just, I felt like they were in it more. to just make money off their people rather than really help them. Does that make sense?
To me, I can't work with something like that. Yeah, it was just, it was like, you know, they would be like, instead of having me train everybody in the company. Because my duplication was like 50 times more than like, you're talking like hardly anybody in the entire space.
Like I'd always try to get recruited by air. Every company would try to recruit me. They'd fly me in like Organo Gold, the coffee, fly me in, you know, like I was ranked number 45 in the entire world. You're talking about hundreds of millions of people are in that space.
I was number 45, top income. I made that list within two years with no experience, no downline. Would they count guys like, Patrick, but David and Ed Milet as part of that world too. They would, if they had submitted their financials, you have to submit your financials to that thing.
So it's like, there's agencies that you submit your financials, but most of the big names submit because they want to be on that list. Right. So like there was a guy from Amway that had, he was like 95 years old, I swear. He was like the number one guy.
There's Holton Buggs from, he's a big network marketer for OrganoGold. I've been out of space for, geez, like 10 years now. So I don't really know what's going on. But the reason why I left is like, I came to them, I was like, hey, I'll train everybody here.
Like they would have been 10 times bigger, but they didn't want me to train them because the inside scoop was kind of like they were afraid that people were gonna be. Like look at me more as the leader than the founders, if that makes sense. Got it.
But I wasn't doing it for that reason. I was trying to like help grow the company to make it even bigger. And I wanted maybe a little bit of profit share if I helped them do that. Well, they didn't want to do any of that. And so I'm just like, and they were more concerned about like, you know, people paying for like events where they'd bring in, you know, motivational speakers.
I love motivational speakers. When people leave at the end, they'd be like, oh, I don't still don't know what to do. They just get jacked up and excited and they were just selling tickets, right?
They charge a thousand or two thousand bucks to get five, eight thousand people in an auditorium and make a bunch of money, but they never even brought me into train. And I'm like, dude, I have like a 30% duplication. Like if you have a 5% duplication, you're a millionaire in that space.
I'm at 30 some percent, right? Like that means 30 some percent of the people I'm training go full time because they're making like six figures. That's crazy. Yeah, that's... But it was like they were intimidated by me and I didn't like that.
So I left the industry because of that, because I just felt like a lot of network marketing companies weren't really in it. I felt like they were just fake. They just get up there like, oh, we love everybody. But at the end of the day, they're just all about the money.
I don't know. Yeah. I mean, that is the reputation they have in network marketing.
Yeah, there you go. I mean, that's why a lot of people don't like it. Yeah.
But I guess, you know, obviously you still train network marketing. Yeah. Like. Where do you see that industry going?
Because I have a few thoughts because I've done some one-on-one calls with some guys who have had, you know, seven figure down lines. And I've heard many, many, like I have heard the same thing from all of them. Yeah. I mean, I think it depends on what your product line is.
And I think it depends on, like if you're a life insurance company that's more in the MLM space, I think the FTC looks at that more as like a more real business because you're selling life insurance. It's a security. It's a security compared to, and I'm not saying that, I'm not giving a straight jacket interpretation. Look, like I think there's a lot of great network marketing companies. I also see some that are selling air, you know, that's like, what are you selling?
You know? Well, you sell to get somebody to, you know, go under you. That's the thing.
Yeah, I think those are the ones that are in trouble. But I think like, you know, like a Patrick McDavid's company, those are legit, you know, because they're selling life insurance and IULs. Financial services.
So I think as long as their marketing is compliant and salespeople are compliant, I think those are safe, but I'm not the expert. What do you feel? Just talking to, and once again, these are just guys in random industries, but it's just getting harder and harder on them. And FTC is getting harder or compliance? Well, just growing it, just people leaving, people recruiting people significantly harder.
I can tell you why that is. Why? Because they don't really train them how to sell the right way.
But these are already successful guys with big downlines. So they're not like newbies. Yeah, but they know how to do it, but they don't really teach their...
Oh, I forget your other guys have to do it too. Yeah, to multiply. And that's why they leave, right?
That's why there's so much attrition because they don't really learn how to sell. Like I've been a keynote speaker at some of these network marketing conventions and I've seen other speakers on there. And I'm just like...
What did they really take away from that? They didn't really learn anything. Like, and I'll get up there and I'll actually teach them word tracks. And like, if you get this objection, here's how you prevent it.
Like, I'll actually literally train them what to say and ask. And then when I leave after that, to like, they'll have me go sign books. I have like 2000 people in line just waiting.
They're like, man, I actually learned what to do. Like, you're the reason why I came here because I wanted to learn what to say when I'm trying to recruit somebody. Like, people literally want to go to events and learn what to do. What a weird concept.
Be hyped up. And I, Hey, I love hype. I think they're, they need to have some motivational speakers there.
That is very valid. You have to have the right mindset, but you can have the best mindset in the world, but you have the mindset up here. But if your skill level's down here, where's your mindset going to go? It's going to go down eventually to where your skill level is. People say, how do I gain more confidence in sales?
I'm like, well, that's easy. You gain more skills because the more skills you have, the more successful you are. That affects your confidence, right?
You can't have a high confidence level with a low sales skill level. Being broke. Yeah, you can't, you just, that doesn't match. Like you might get pumped up each day, then the day if you're not making many sales, it goes back down to where your skill level is.
Yeah. And these people, like when they go to events, they literally want to learn how to do it, not just it's a good idea and we're going to pump you up. Like you have to give them some tech.
Now you can't overdo it where they're like. chemistry lab, like I so much information, but you got to give them some tactical training. And they feel like, hey, this was worth it. Like, yeah, man, I learned something today.
I could go out and call lead tomorrow. And like, I'd be more successful. Yeah, you know? Yeah, I for I mean, you've spoken at WealthCon. And so for me, I always think about that, too.
And I'm like, all right, you need a mix of hype and tech, like, you know, technical things. And and you know, if you're just all technical, it just gets boring. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And so, yeah, I think a blend is great. You have to have a blend.
Yeah. People get the most value when you have that. They feel like, man, I'm going to come back again because if it's all hype, you know, it wears off. Right. But you're right.
If it's all technical, it's like, you know, they're sleeping. So you got to have a good mix. Yeah. So with network marketing, my other thought was that I think It's funny because I've had guys who are, you know, in their 50s on this show and it seems like in their era, I'm 35, network marketing was like the thing.
Yeah, sure. You know, back in their 20s and everything else. Yeah. And so it was like the way to become an entrepreneur.
Yeah. And then today, you know, when you get Gen Z and everything else and millennials like myself, you know, it's like, oh, well, you can just be the entrepreneur. You could go start a flipping business, a wholesale business.
You could be an influencer. An influencer is a big thing or affiliate marketer. Yeah, there's like a million things you could, you don't have to be a network marketer. Yeah.
And that's what I think part of the problem is. They're competing against that. That used to not exist. That's going to pull away some of their market. Yeah, for sure.
It's the same person. Yeah. It's just pulling away the market.
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. They probably should adapt to that for sure.
Yeah. Come up with some type of different model, like some type of an affiliate. I don't know.
I'm not the expert on that. Yeah, but that's what I believe is happening. That's solid.
You're high level, man. That's smart. That's good, man. I like that. Well, isn't it knowing your prospect, right?
Shouldn't you understand your avatar? Yeah. So you're going to have less and less younger people probably doing it. You're going to have more older people.
So next 20 years, it'll be interesting to see where that space goes. Well, I think they're dead. Yeah, for sure.
I just think that. Why would you take that opportunity when you could go build a business like seventh level? Sure.
With your same skill set. Well, yeah, that's an interesting topic because I think I've created about 20 sales trainers from just seventh level, like some of our own salespeople, right? We have close to 60 salespeople now, but every once in a while we'll have somebody that leaves and starts their own coaching sales training business.
And I'm like, oh my gosh. What are you doing, brother? You've sold for two years. You don't have enough expertise. You don't have the experience.
You don't have the knowledge. Sometimes you just need a longer game to have that knowledge, right? 18 years.
18 years. And you're talking like I was making multiple seven figures a year in commissions as a rep. Which is insane. And you have somebody that makes $200,000 a year.
Now I'm going to be a sales trainer. I'm like, you're never going to know how to train any industry but the industry you sold in at that point. Because you don't have enough. You haven't been in...
multiple industries. You don't know the differences between B to B, B to G, B to C, door to door. There's just nuances you just don't know unless you're in there in the trenches, right?
You can't just read a book and know how to do it. Like you've got to be in the trenches and successful at it. So I see a lot of people that, you know how it is, the influencers, and I love my few of my guys that have left to start their own thing.
I wish them the best, but had they stayed in there longer and got way more experience or went to like different industries and really crushed it in there, they're going to have a much bigger. brand and be able to go places. You sell for a couple of years, start your own thing. You're just, you're just not, it's going to be really hard to scale that because you just don't have the knowledge.
You just don't. Yeah. You don't have the reps. You don't have the knowledge. You don't have the experience, the different perspectives.
Yeah. Speaking of that, even when I, after 18 years, bro, when I started to think about starting 7th Love, I was like, man, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can train every industry. I really thought that.
I was like, man, I don't know. you know and selling 18 years and selling education was new for you too it was yeah like you knew how to sell but selling digital products and consulting and services is a little bit different it's a whole new thing yeah yeah yeah so speaking of that like what have you seen is the difference when you're selling uh a b2c or a b2b like what are some nuances well nuances are with with b2b so let's say especially if you're on the enterprise level you're gonna have longer sales cycles like b2c most business tickets are not all it's probably a one call close. Yeah.
You know, or let's say if I sold a pools, like luxury pools, maybe it's a two or three step process, right? Cause I got to go out to the house to have the discovery conversation, then go build a proposal. Then, you know, so it might be two or three steps, but in B2B, let's say if I'm selling cybersecurity to Wells Fargo, that's not going to be a one call close. They ain't making the decision right now.
It's just, it's, you know, it's a big amount, right? Your small deals might be 150 grand. Your, it could be a $5 million deal. you know so with b2b you have to really get good at everything i just said about getting the prospect that guard on all that stuff but then you have to know how to navigate throughout that entire organization and not just find the decision makers find people who actually can influence those decision makers that's a that's a whole different ball game right so now you gotta kind of be a prospector of people you gotta find people in the organization so you gotta know how to like let's say if i'm on a discovery call with the c-level executives you're gonna start with one person right? How do I progress it to then meet the department head?
How do I get the department head pulled in, right? Because they're busy. What's going on with them?
So how does this affect your department head when this XYZ problem's going on? So I'm dragging that person in from there, right? And so who else does that actually impact when you have that product?
So let's say if I'm selling SaaS, right? And let's say if I'm selling an AI service to a hospital. Okay.
So like example, we turn a big company that does this. So doctors right now, they have to dictate notes, right? On average, the average doctor takes 90 minutes to two hours every day to have to dictate notes. So almost two hours of their day is just literally dictating notes from patients. They have to do that to make sure the insurance companies pay.
It has to be perfect. And they have to do it to make sure they don't prescribe the wrong medication so that the patient doesn't die. So a lot of pressure on them to get the notes right.
Well, AI now can do it like instantly. So that saves two hours a day. What can that doctor do with two hours a day?
See more patients, more billable hours, hospital makes more money, maybe has more time to go to their kids' games because they're not at that. Maybe they're not doing it at midnight and they're exhausted, right? So it solves a lot of problems.
But so I might say, let's say if I'm talking to the doctor, so, okay, when you're having to spend two hours a day dictating notes, how does that affect like XYZ staff or whatever? So I'm pulling in other people that I know are probably going to be decision makers in this. What is your CEO?
How does your CEO, let's say it's a big hospital, how does your CEO feel about you guys losing billable hours to just having to dictate notes? You know, just little questions like that. I'm gauging what's going on.
Does that make sense? Yeah. And then I'm pulling them in because you'd be surprised. You might be talking to a CEO and you feel like that CEO has full decision-making capability, which they do, which the average company in the United States of America has close to seven decision makers, just so you know. Wow.
Just average size company. close to seven decision makers. Okay.
Even in my own company, there is about five to six decision makers. Okay. But let's say that CEO might have an executive assistant that's been their EA for 10 years.
You don't know that they can influence that decision. Or let's say if I'm selling IT services, right? And I come in there and I'm a different vendor and they have an internal IT person. Well, that IT person might not be able to make the decision.
But once they find out that a different, a vendor's coming in there to do X, Y, Z, they might feel like their job's threatened now, that they're messed up. And now they're going to go tell their department head like, oh, we don't need it. We can fix this and this. And then the deal gets killed. But if you would have got that other IT person in there into that conversation and help them with problems they have.
overcoming those, then you're pulling in, you're controlling the process. Whereas most B2B sales people, they just hope and pray that it's just going to work out for them at the end. I'm like, I'm never going to, I would never do that. I'm like, I'm never doing that because I don't have any control of what's going on. Right.
So we got to figure out who decisions that makers are, who influences the decision makers. Yeah. Because like I said, it could be an IT person has no decision-making ability. They're the director of IT. And you're talking to the.
with the CTO or something who does make the decision. Well, the director of IT might not even be in that conversation, but they might feel their job is threatened by an outside vendor coming in and they might try to persuade their department head not to do it. Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. So for you guys, like, what what's the goal at this point i mean last time we talked i mean obviously you guys were growing at a rapid rate and now you're you're number four and for overall for the this is just rankings based on revenues it's not like grandma rankings yeah legit grandma said we're the number one company in the world yeah but you're number you're number one in my heart so but based on pure revenues yeah okay so you know you've got these big goliath companies that have been around for 30, 40, 50 years. And for you, like, what's the mission at this point? So our mission is to change the way sales is perceived in society.
Like if you come to our office, you'll see that all over the walls, change the way sales is perceived in society, because as a company, let me, let me come back to that. So right now we're, according to the rankings based on revenues, we're the largest business to consumer sales training company in the world. But if you factor B2B, And B2C together, we're ranked fourth overall in the world, but largest business to consumer. But we were getting really big in B2B for the last two years based off revenues.
The companies ahead of us have been around a long time. Like, Sandler's the biggest. They started 1971, way before I was born.
Richardson, training out of Dallas, 1984. A company in Sweden, like, 1981. We're all doing B2B, I'm assuming. Mainly B2B. Mainly B2B. Some B2C. Sandler does a lot of B2C, too.
Yeah, that's why they're large, because they have a good mix. They're probably 70% B2B, 30% B2C. And we're probably 70% B2C, 30% B2B. got that's that soon will be 50 50 percent but with with us is we've noticed in the last couple years as we started training more and more companies that a lot of companies come to us and they don't want just sales training but they want a lot of other stuff they're like hey What, how do you guys do your marketing? Like, how do you guys do your marketing?
You're like, Hey, we see your ads. Don't really talk about like income or money. Like they seem really compliant.
We're struggling with compliance. Can you help us compliance? Or they're like, Hey, we're having a hard time like scaling the business with, you know, we're just, it's me and my wife or whatever, you know? And it depends on the business model they're in.
Right. Especially the education business. That seems to be a lot like husband and wife duo, and they get to a certain level and they're like, we don't know what to do. Cause they've never really scaled a real business or come from corporate America.
And so what we're integrating right now is a business consulting model within our sales training model as well. Got it. Because there's just a need.
So we are actually out there right now. You've heard of like McKinsey? I've heard of it.
I don't really know what they do. McKinsey is a huge consulting firm. So they did $15 billion last year. Okay. But they started in the 1920s.
But they just do business consulting, like Bain Capital, you know, like where Mitt Romney came from, or Boston Consulting, all those companies. So you're talking like... gigantic. Yeah.
Those guys are consulting these massive fortune 500 companies. Yeah, exactly. But they didn't start there. They started consulting smaller companies and they worked their way up.
So we're implementing that model in and we're actually recruiting some big players from a few of those firms I just mentioned to you to lead that department. So that's kind of the business consulting side will always be known as the sales training company because that's where everything comes in the leads. right?
You know, the, from, from my content and stuff like that. But we also are doing some business consulting as well. That's, that's going really exceptionally well. So we'll get bigger and bigger into that, that vertical as well. So do you think that the business consulting plus, I mean, it just makes sense.
Like it is, do you think that that ends up overtaking it? In revenue? Probably yes. I mean, the largest sales training company in the world, Sandler last year did like 81 million.
Got it. So sales training is not an industry where you do like $700 million in sales training. Like it's just, it doesn't, it's not the way it works.
Right. But business consulting is. So business consulting, yeah, probably, you know, five, six, eight years or so might overtake our revenues on the sales training department. But it makes sense. Like if I'm a sales training company, cause I always make fun of like, especially the education space, you know, I love the education space, but.
One day I'll be following some guy that's like a big leader in, let's say, I don't know, dating. He's a dating influencer. And he has a big following. And then like two years later, three years later, he does a post. And he's like, I had an epiphany.
I don't feel good about what I'm doing. And now I'm going to do this. And now he's an influencer for real estate or just something completely different.
And you're just like. What is going on? Like, where is the brand in that? Like, what happened to your clients? You know what I mean?
But you see that all the time. Like, I'm a coach selling coaches how to do coaching or whatever, that type of thing. No offense to that.
I'm sure it's great. But it's just not a long-term business you can scale, right? So they just jump around to different things. And I'm like, well, what about all your clients?
So that would be like me going from sales training, like, oh, we're going to sell teapots now. Like you'd be like, it doesn't make any sense, but sales training and consulting does it kind of, it's in the same, it's business. Well, that's what I was talking about earlier, right?
Like sales and marketing go hand in hand. Exactly. And that's why I was curious, like how involved you are on the marketing side of things, making sure that the messaging is congruent and that, you know, it's making the sale easier and whatever.
We have 193 people on the team now. Okay. Our marketing department's a big part of that. There are about 20 some people in the marketing department.
So I wish I could have more, I do have some say in that stuff, but if I'm like in the nitty gritty details of all that stuff all the time, I would never be able to do what I do. You know what I mean? So I have to, you have to trust people sometimes.
And sometimes I'll see a post and I'll be like, I never said that. I'll be like, you were, I'm like, I'm like, you guys reworded that like totally wrong. Like that would never, you wouldn't want to say it that way. And sometimes I'll send a screenshot. on Slack to the marketing channel.
I'm like, hey guys, can you fix this? Because like, that's not what that means or what I meant when I said that. You know, so if I see it here and there, I'll do it.
But if I was sitting there, you know, cause I got a few friends that are in kind of the, I guess, education space, they're just smaller companies and they're like still writing their stuff and everything. I'm like, guys, how do you have time? You can't have time.
If like, you're going to scale your business, like you got to bring in a CEO to do that. You got, unless you're like the CEO type, right? Cause being a CEO, like running a business is a different type than just. sales, right? It's a different skillset.
You know, I never ran a business before I started my own business. Right. So there, you know, our CEO is way better than me at doing that. So, you know, you gotta, you gotta bring in the right people to run your team, to really scale and that kind of stuff.
And what time, at what point did you hire a CEO? Because you started it on your own. Yeah, so 2018, started on my own with me and my assistant. 2019, same thing. 2020, end of 2020, brought in a CEO.
That was my first business partner, which we just bought him out probably like eight months ago. He wanted to do something different. So we have a new CEO now. Oh, wow. Which has been good.
We've scaled even bigger since the new CEO. New CEO just brought new ideas. The new CEO is more growth-oriented.
The other CEO is a great guy. I love Matt. Um, but he was, he just wasn't as growth oriented as, as Marco who we have now. Yeah. That's great.
And is that where the, the business consulting came into play? Yeah. Marco and I really wanted to have that side of the business, you know, and we brought in, we had a. On our board, I don't know if you know a guy named Kim Manley. He's been on our board since 2021 as an advisor.
You know, we had a couple of people we were paying like to help us like, hey, figure this out. We need people that are sharp. So Kim was the CEO of Smirnoff Vodka for like, I think, eight or nine years.
He's the one that came up with Smirnoff Ice. Wow. Remember that?
No, that's good. He's in high school. Pretty talented guy.
And so Kim is our chairman of the board now. Okay. So he's intimately involved.
in everything that we do now. And so Kim, our chairman of the board, and Marco Cortese, our CEO, which he was a CRO before that, were very growth-oriented, and they're the ones that came in with the McKinsey model. So it's good.
What about recruiting good salespeople? Because clearly, I mean, you guys have a massive sales team. I think you said 60. It's like 58, 59. It fluctuates, yeah.
And that's obviously another revenue stream, placing salespeople and recruiting and everything else. Like, do you guys plan to do that? Like, what are best practices?
We do, but more on the recruiting and staffing agency side. Recruiting and staffing agency is a big industry we train. It's one of the top 10 industries in the world we train now.
Okay, so we've learned a lot about it. It's very profitable. But the way a lot of companies do it, where they charge the salesperson to get placed at the company, would be something we would never want to do because the FTC doesn't like that, because they're consumers, paying 10 or 15 grand. What if they don't get placed?
What if it doesn't work out? So we would always stay away from like placement offers. We're more like we charged companies to have salespeople that have gone through our training.
We would charge the company to pay to have that salesperson place. And that's how like staffing and recruiting agencies do it. I mean, there's staffing agencies that do six, seven, eight billion a year in revenue. So people, you know, are coming to you guys, obviously for sales training.
So you have this massive wave. database of salespeople. Yeah. Yeah.
We have, I don't know, well over a million just on our email list of salespeople. We have Facebook groups, have 150,000 of them. You know, we got millions of social media followers. You go get a B2B client who's like, yeah, we need salespeople. Yeah.
And so the company, you just charge the company. Will you like just email a million people? Like how, how would you go about that?
We haven't set it up yet. So it's like, you know, I'm the person that's always like wants to do everything now. Yeah. But if you do everything now, everything can break.
Right. So slowly, but surely that I think that, you know, we, we planned out for the next five years. I believe that's something that we're going to launch probably in 2027. It's a ways out.
It's just a ways out. You're thinking far out. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. For sure. I mean, if you want a long-term company, you got to really think you don't just think out like a year, you think out three years, five years, like where's the company 10 years from now.
Yeah. So we're launching the B2B consulting offer and it's going to take us a few years to really blow that up. And we're recruiting people from like some of those companies, I'm not going to say which ones to really run that.
They're already successfully running it there. Okay. So we're offering some big moolah for that, but that's going to take a few years.
Like imagine if we did that today and they're like, Oh, we're going to do recruiting too. Like it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. There's too much going on. Too much going on, man.
So how would you advise a business owners to find good salespeople? Do you think they're better poaching and just getting talent or, you know, finding someone who's raw and hungry and putting them through seventh level? Like what? I think it's just a good mix. I don't know if there's a right answer there.
I think it depends on how many sales people you need. If you're like, hey, man, I need two guys, go poach him. If you're like, I need 300 guys, you're going to have a combo. It's just it's based on your industry. It's based on how many guys you need is what I would say.
I don't think there's any one answer on that. Got it. What about a lot of people ask commissions and pay and you know what, I mean, obviously every industry is going to be really different, but do you still lean towards, I don't know, do you have any like set in stone principles?
Like, Hey, we like doing, um, spiffs. We like doing, uh, you know, quarterly bonuses, weekly bonuses. Like for us, I would just tell you what we do.
So, you know, when they hit certain levels, they start at 10% and it can go all the way up to 15% with us. So we have a lot of guys that make, you know, 13, 14, 15% pretty like boom, boom, boom. And it's commission only. Yeah, commission only. And they get quarterly bonuses based on their KPIs.
So we have teams as well. So with, I think we have like, I don't know, five teams or something based on, you know, there's like 11 or 12 in each team. And- Whoever wins the top two or three gets an extra bonus, and that team gets to share the revenue. There's other things that we do. There's a sales manager of the team.
Yeah. We have a senior vice president, then we have a VP, and then we have team leaders over those 10 to 12 people. And would team leaders just get a percentage on everyone's deal?
No. I believe ours get some type of base salary. So it's a small salary and then, and then they're still selling themselves.
Right. So they're not just like managing them the whole time. They're still selling themselves. We had one guy last year that made close to 900 grand in commissions.
Wow. There you go. I, uh, I learned that a long time ago from, uh, maybe it was Cardone.
I can't remember, but he was like, no, everyone sells. There are no managers who just manage salespeople. Like everyone has to sell. Yeah.
I do believe sales managers should sell some. Yes. Not 80%, but if you're running a big team, you've got to really focus on the team and like training them and stuff like that. But I do believe, I'm always a big believer, sales managers always sell.
Because how can you train people how to sell if you're just, you've never really sold yourself? It doesn't make any sense. You're not in it. You just don't understand, right? Like our senior vice president, we wouldn't have to do that because he's like, he's like coming up with different strategies and, you know, he's, he's focused on KPIs and data and stuff like that to see where our show up rates are.
And, you know, so if he was out selling, he just wouldn't be able, we wouldn't be able to be as effective with all the technical stuff. Right. So it just, it just depends on your, your model, but you wouldn't have your senior vice president sale in my mind, but your sales managers should sell.
Yeah. All these leaders are talking about, they should be sales managers. I wouldn't say you're your senior vice president.
Now, if you're a small company and you, you give a title to somebody, three salespeople, you know how it is three salespeople like, Oh, I'm this in. the sales manager, you call him the senior vice president. He's selling, he's selling.
Yeah. But if you got a lot of salespeople, then you need somebody that can run the data and come up with different strategies and different compensation plans and be able to meet with the team, make sure they're happy and all that kind of stuff. How do you handle turnover?
You know, are you, you know, you hire a new salesperson, are you? you know, clear KPIs out the gate. Like, man, if they can't figure it out in two weeks, are they out? Yeah. Can I give you an interesting stat that we just came up with probably about four or five months ago?
So you know how a lot of salespeople are just remote now, right? Especially outbound, inbound. They're just all, let's just work from home, you know, remote closers, all that stuff. I love that concept. I get DMs every single day for all these guys wanting to work for me.
Yeah. It's great. The problem is, is we did, we ran the numbers from our... outbound team that works in our offices in Scottsdale and their production compared to our outbound team who works from home, it was a four to one difference.
You're talking like insane. So we're like, what are we doing? Hiring people on the outbound team from home. Like literally it was like a 60 some percent attrition rate with people who work from home on the outbound team. If they worked in the office, it was less than 6% attrition rate.
So not only are they more productive, there's 10 times less turnover. Yeah, there's just no turnover because I'm there. I do an hour and a half training every Friday morning that I'm in town.
Like if I, unless I have a keynote or something, hour and a half training, everything. Sometimes they'll come in and ask questions here and there. We have our sales manager. We have our top salesperson there. So it's just speed to lead, right?
So they're just like, hey, I just got this objection. What should I have done? I'm like, record it. I'll show you what to do. Do it right now.
You're working from home. Hopefully you get a hold of somebody on the phone or Zoom, or maybe you can ask it on the next training call. It's just, everything is so slow.
Plus you don't have the motivation sitting there working from your bedroom if you had a little bit of it. There's less accountability. You don't even know if they're working, right? And even our inbound team, it's just, you know, so right now we're conducting a policy that, you know, our outbound team.
So when you get hired as an outbound team, you have to come to Scottsdale for six straight weeks for orientation. Well, companies do that. Like when I was buying sales, like you had to go to corporate ops, like my friend Tommy, he might hire a salesperson in Milwaukee, but they have to come to Phoenix for like a month or whatever. And they have to get trained before they go back to their territory. Right.
It's a pretty normal concept. And so now we're hiring, we hire somebody that come in for six weeks. Okay. Now if they're married and have a family, we, you know, come for a week and a half, go back a week and a half, come back.
But a lot of the people on that team, we hire younger, you know, 18 to 25. So a lot of them don't have families yet. And so what we found though, is when they get to the office after a week or so, they're like, I don't want to go back. I want to stay here.
Like, how can I move here? Because their, their results are so crazy. They like the culture.
They like the culture. They like being around me. We do team activities. We take them to dinner every week.
We take them paintballing. Like we're always doing something with a team every weekend. You know, if it's not me, it's our sales managers or somebody like our top salesperson, Yash is really good at building culture.
He takes him out, you know? And so they just want to be around that. They go, they go working out. Every night after work, they all work out together, you know, their lifetime and other gyms and stuff. So even with our inbound closers, we're now implementing a policy, like if you don't have a certain percent conversion consistently over a certain time, you have to come to our Scottsdale offices for four straight weeks and get retrained.
Why not just mandatory? You could. I think sometimes you've got to give them a little bit of the milk before the meat. Sometimes they just don't know what they don't know.
If you're like, you have to move here or else, some people are like, well, I guess I'm not going to move. But if you just get them out there, they're like, wow, it's really cool here. You know, because it's like this, it's a different world after COVID, right? Everybody thinks everybody just works from home. But if you just get them there and they start to see the culture, nobody wants to leave.
Literally nobody wants to go back when they come to their offices. It's just too much together. And so you just give them the milk, you know, come here, orientation, get trained. And they just make the decision. They're like, all right, I like it.
I'm in. You don't have to force people. Because they just know.
Especially younger dudes. They know if they go back home, they're not going to sell as good as everybody here. So they're going to make less money.
So what are you thinking? You could make double if you're selling from here because you're going to learn what to do. And nobody's mad about living in Scottsdale. It's not a horrible place, but it is horrible in the summer.
June, July, and August, as Vegas is, it's not so awesome in the summer. It's starting to cool down there. Yeah.
No, I don't mind. I'm born and raised here. You're used to it, bro. Yeah, I'm used to it. I'm from St. Louis, Missouri.
I'm used to trees and rain. I've recruited a bunch of Cali people to live here. Yeah, have you? And they're like, but the weather. But then, you know, they're here for like a year.
You're like, the taxes, you make more money. Exactly. Well, they're here for a year and they're like, all right, yeah, it's not as bad as I thought.
Yeah. And even, hey, if you want to take a couple weeks off in the summer, go back to Cali. Yeah. Go enjoy it. Yeah.
And if you're producing at a high level, if you want to go work, you know, from California for a month in the summer, go for it. As long as you're hitting like big numbers. Now, what about remote for the rest of your company? Do you mind it?
Do you... I don't like it. Yeah, you don't like it, period.
People listening to my company are not going to like what I say here. I don't like... I think for some jobs where it's 100% task-oriented, working from home is not bad.
But for your marketing team and your creative team, working from home, things just take slower. It's just slower. Yeah.
Because if they're here, they just come ask you something real quick, rather than having to schedule a call. It's just, it's too... Yeah, so we're a...
We're starting to bring those people in as well. And then like out of your, cause you said outbound for sure. Like it's clear that those people have to be in office, but what percentage of your team for the closers are inbound teams?
It's two to one ones in the office compared to the ones home. Usually the ones that usually if you're on the inbound team, two to one, two to one is remote. No two to one in office. Sell more in office. Yeah.
Oh yeah. But I'm saying like what percentage of your staff though is remote versus. So right now we have 193 people on the team. Overall, I think in the office we have close to 50. So it's a majority still remote.
That's still remote. But you have some in the Philippines and, you know, some stuff over there. We just opened up.
Well, we're just opening an office right now in January in London. That's going to be our European headquarters. And we'll have about 20 people right in there because we have a lot of people in the UK. Really?
My CEO and the chairman are right there in London. So that's why I go to London. Wait, your CEO's in London? Yeah, yeah.
How does, so how is that? Well, we moved him there for the business consulting side. So London and New York City are like the Mecca of business consulting.
Got it. So strategically, it makes sense for us to have European headquarters there. And so Kim Manley is actual, he's British, right? So it just made sense to put our European headquarters there.
He has his connections out there already. Major connections, yeah. I just, I was out there two months ago.
He introduced me to a ton of people at this place called the Soho House or something. It's a membership and stuff only. And different level, different level, some of these places, some of the people I met. So just, he just has connections there.
But that's one of the benefits of poaching too, is not just the skill, but the relationships. The relationships, 100%. So we have a pretty big European team. We're pretty big in Europe.
Like I was over there a couple months ago for a month and I was in Poland. I was in Czech Republic. I was in Italy.
And every day I walked down the street, people were talking like, hey, are you Jeremy Meyer? I'm one of your clients or I'm following you. I was really surprised.
in europe you know but we that is weird presence over there so that's good wow what do you think about um the what was i gonna ask about this oh round robin versus you know just straight up up for grabs speed to lead oh so round robin meaning like people are assigned leads and you know like hopefully they hit them quick yeah and versus like hey all the leads are in a bucket you know what do you guys do you Dude, I'm torn because I've tried both. Yeah. And it depends on the company.
I believe, so this is going to sound bad. I don't know what's going on, but that would be our senior vice president question. David Duncan, what do we do? I believe that we, don't quote me on this. I believe that they're assigned the leads, but then after like a certain time, it gets round, it goes into a bucket.
Yeah, for grabs. I believe that's what we do. Don't quote me on that.
I believe that's what we do. Okay. Yeah, just because like, it's interesting, like just thinking about it with our sales team.
Round Robin is, you know, you can control who gets leads and you can weight it differently. We weight it based on their performance. Posing percentages. Yeah.
Yeah. But then it's like, all right, I guess for outbound. it might be easier to just have it all in a bucket. It's like guys just hammer through.
That's what we do for outbound, yeah. Okay. So it's like, well, they get assigned, but then after, I don't know if it's after a week or after two weeks or three days, then it goes into like anybody bucket.
Anybody gets it. I don't know the inbound team. It gets assigned, of course. And I don't know, I think we have a policy that if it's not closed within a certain amount of time, then it goes into a round robin as well.
But the problem with the inbound team is sometimes when you, like we have so many, leads like i don't know we probably booked four or five thousand sales calls a month at least there's so many leads with inbound like their calendar stacked for like eight to ten appointments a day that if somebody doesn't show up they just whatever just get lazy so that's what remote guys do right you got eight bookings a day and let's say you don't have a couple people show up you're like oh i just go to the gym i guess for an hour right but if they're in their office What are they doing? They're dialing. Call them back.
Maybe somebody didn't buy it two weeks ago. You know? And so that, when you have a remote team, that's the problem you have is you're more than likely, there might be some of your guys that do that, but a lot of them don't. Yeah. I guarantee you they don't.
They get lazy because you get a lot of guys, you know, that make 20, 30 grand a month, 35 grand. They're just happy. They're just like, yeah, whatever, man.
They didn't show up. I'm just going to go hang out for the next couple of hours, you know? They're not hungry, but if they're in their office and you're around that culture, they're hungry and they're driven and like, hey, everybody's there watching what you're doing.
You're gonna keep going. And that's why they just outproduce people that work from home. Cause you, they don't do that from home.
I find it's a very, has to be a very unique person that can day in, day out, self-motivate themselves. Yeah, you're by yourself. To yourself from home.
You have to be like, literally like an entrepreneur minded person to do that. If you're an employee person working from home in sales, you're not going to last because you just, you don't have the self-motivation to do it. You have to be like, you have to think like an entrepreneur, like it's your own thing to, you have to be self-motivated.
Nobody's like showing, like get out of bed, you know? Yeah. Nobody knows the accountability's hard. It just is what it is.
What about you guys? You guys have remote or mainly bringing them in? Mainly in-house.
We have a few remote guys, but yeah, dude, I feel the same way. Yeah. We've had... remote guys who've been good don't get me wrong but like i just like culture i like accountability yeah i like you know that the only downside is you know maybe there's really talented people in other places well they're clearly dark the the pool is much bigger remote sure but i don't know man it's just almost like hired assassins that's the way i look at it if they're remote they're kind of like hired assassins because you they're not really, even though they love you, they love your brand, they're not really bought in defined as your people in the office.
Actually, I'll tell you just from a sales perspective. So my two main sales teams would be our real estate investing side, direct to seller, and then the education side. And so for years, on the education side, we had like all remote guys. And cause that was the big thing. And then for real estate, we were always in house.
We would never even allow remote. My real estate guys, the average salesperson tenure right now for the guys that are in that office are like four to five years. Yeah, they're still here.
It's insane. Because they're bought in. And then this turnover is like always really fast. Yeah, because they're not part of the culture. Right.
They're just there for the money. Yeah. And then somebody else comes along with new shiny object and, oh, I can make more money here. And they just bounce.
But your people here, they're bought into the culture, the vision, the money's good. But. You have to create a culture where it's not just the money. It's like, it's the vision.
Where are you going with your company? And you can't really do that remote. You can't really do, it's just so hard to do it remote. So we're just getting to the point where we're seeing that.
And we're just like, look, if you guys want like a future, you want to really progress in the company. How can we promote you to this position? You know, this high level managed position. If you just.
work from home somewhere randomly like how could we do that like you know if you want to go from a remote closer to now i'm this position i'm the vp of revenue or just whatever it is how can we do that when you're not you know what you know what's weird is like these remote sales guys like that seems like a new thing since covid yeah you know like car dealerships you know it got really big during covid it was there before covid yeah but not as big yeah yeah and then i see uh just all these other industries like i remember the first time i ever went to cardone's office there's like a hundred sales people there yeah i'm like dang dude like yeah i could see why they work yeah you get a hundred people around you it's the culture You're going to make calls. You're going to make calls and you're going to be motivated to outperform everybody else. You're working from home, from your bedroom. It's not the same motivation. What do you think is the best way to motivate a sales team?
Let's say you're in person now. How do you get them, I don't know, I don't want to say in the boiler room mentality, but how do you get them performing better, making more calls? You've got to buy in the vision.
I think it's the vision. There's no vision until people perish, right? The Bible, right? So you've just got to, it's just getting them. mission statement is to change the way sales is perceived one salesperson, one company at a time.
So our salespeople are bought into that. So when they're calling other salespeople, like they're calling them because they know if those salespeople go through our training, they're going to learn skills. They're going to sell more.
They're going to bless their family's life. They're going to be able to have more, you know, money doesn't make you happy, but it just gives you more options in life. Right.
So if you want to donate to your church and you don't have any money. You can't really do anything. But if you make more money, you can donate to your church. You can donate to your charities. You can, maybe your uncle, you know, has some type of treatment he needs.
It's not covered by medical insurance and you can help him. I mean, if you don't have any money, you can't do any of that. So I think it's just really creating that vision is the most important thing in my mind. That gets people to like stick because they want to be part of something that's great, not just make money.
They got to make money. Yeah. But like if they're, if they're making money and they're bought into the vision of something that's great and something where they have the potential to grow with that business, that's, that's a person that's going to be there forever.
How long do you give somebody who's not performing? Let's say they're, they're new. This is a senior vice president question, David.
I don't, I don't know. I think we put them on like performance review after all. I don't know. I don't, I really don't know the stats.
I'd be, I'd be guessing. I'd be throwing mud against the wall on that one. In your mind, how would you do it? Oh gosh, I'm probably going to get in trouble. I don't know.
I want to say we might have like a three month thing or two month thing, but I just, I don't know what the KPIs are that they have to hit or closing percentages. But in my mind, you know, like I hear some of these calls and I'm just like, this guy has been following me for nine months. He's like, I already increased my, I've already doubled my sales from like your free content.
I'm like, how could we not get that guy in? And I'm just like, that guy was already. halfway in when he got on the call.
Yeah. Like, you know, it's just, so sometimes I get frustrated because I realize, okay. Then I step back and I'm like, oh, okay, well, these guys haven't learned what I know how to do yet. You know, it takes time, right?
Have you found it better for you to just stay away? Yeah. Yeah. Because if I hear all calls, I go binocular.
I'm like. Like, oh my God, oh my God, he sounded so salesy when he asked that question. Like, you know what? That question is a horrible question. Why did he ask that?
So I'm like, I have to stay in my office. I can't go out there. Yeah. When I had, Cardone was here maybe like six to eight months ago. Yeah.
And I asked him the same thing. He's like, it is not good for me to be around the sales team at all. And I learned that too, because I never trained the sales team or did anything for ever. Yeah.
And then I got really deep into it. Cause I'm like, all right, we're changing things. Here's what's got to happen. Yeah. And I, you know, I hear things and I'm just like, why would you say that?
Like, I don't understand. Yeah. And then like, you know, my level of intensity, my level of expectation and standard and work ethic.
And then, uh, he was like, bro, you just, you have to separate, let somebody else. You do. Cause it makes you feel like, um, as a sales trainer, especially like, oh gosh, it makes me look bad. Is it?
Because we're training our salespeople, you know, or whatever, but I don't even really, I do one training a week now. And that was just something that we recently implemented only for salespeople in the office. So like if you work remote, you don't get trained by me.
That's why they all want to come there. Right. But we have our, you know, our sales managers and team leaders do all the training stuff because I would just get too frustrated.
But, and you know, cause sometimes a salesperson that they're talking to or a company of like, well, Jeremy Miner wouldn't say that. Or like. That's what Jeremy do.
Like, oh, wait a minute. Like, and so I teach my wife's like, well, what do you expect me to be as good as Jeremy? What's going on? I'm trying to learn like you guys are. That's why people come to us because they want to know what Jeremy is.
That's why I came here to work because I'm trying to learn from Jeremy. Yeah. So I'm like, you just got to reframe that, you know, because they used to struggle with that.
Like, what do I say? And I'm like, we just got to say, you know, be playful and be like, well, what do you expect me to be as good as Jeremy Miner? I'm here to learn from him too. Just like you guys came here because you want to learn how to sell like Jeremy, right?
Yeah. And I'm just reframing the conversation because I'm just, I can't take it. Like, yeah, I'm like, I must be like Cardone because I walk out there and I hear something.
I'm like, oh, geez. But hey, they're doing that. They're working hard, man.
They're, sales takes a while. Like I said this to our salespeople in the office that are down, like, look, some of you come in here and you think you're going to master sales in like six months. You're just not. It takes a while.
Like, I'm like, guys, I'm still mastering sales. Yeah. And I've been in this ball game for 24 years and I did somewhat well.
I was like, I'm still learning. Yeah. So like if I'm. Technically, I don't feel like I've mastered it.
It's going to take you guys a while. Now, a year from now, we're going to get you guys really good. Two years from now, I'm going to make you like a savage.
You give me five years, you're going to be a legend. It just takes a while to learn the nuances and the word tracks and the experience and the reps. And you just learn what not to do and what to do. Even with the best training, it just takes a while to master it, you know?
Confidence, skill, seeing the objection a thousand times. Yeah, a thousand different angles. How do I, you know, then you start getting smart. Like, oh, what if I said this in the beginning to help prevent that objection? You know, and you start to, you know, it's just little nuances.
Because every prospect's different. You know, every prospect's different. Yeah.
That's what a lot of salespeople don't think. They ask the same exact questions to every single prospect. Now, you can have the same framework that you're taking every prospect through, but your questions have to be tweaked based on what that prospect tells you. Right. And you have to know, like, that's why we have frameworks.
Like... connection questions and situation and problem awareness and solution where it's, I got to get them to see what the future looks like once the newfound problems are consequence questions where I get them to defend themselves on why they need to change now and do it with me. So commitment questions, how do I get them to commit to take the next step and purchase what I'm offering?
Right. Instead of closing questions. So they know where they're at in the, in the ball game, but you have to tweak the question based up with that prospect tells you. And that causes the prospect to feel like you understand them the most.
And I always say, I said this on your podcast because I just listened to it in the car. Your prospects will always buy from the salesperson or company who they feel understands their unique situation the most. Because if they feel like you understand them the most, they, of course, feel like you're going to do what? Get them the best result.
They don't buy from salespeople. They don't understand them. Because if you feel like a salesperson doesn't really understand your situation, are you going to buy? Because you're going to be like, how are they going to get me where I want to go if they don't really know my situation? Yeah.
That makes sense. How has that been for you? Because like.
There are car specific sales people, there are, you know, education specific sales people. And, you know, you guys obviously service a broad range of people. So how do you handle that objection where you're not super specific?
We do get specific in some of our training programs. Okay. Our entry level program is broad because we give different examples from, so we train 161 different industries.
According to Forbes, there's only 163 industries in the world. What's the two you don't? Salt mining.
Well, and when we say we don't train them, they could have bought some of our entry-level stuff. We just don't have the data on that. But more of our high-ticket stuff, that's the data. So salt mining is one.
And I can't remember. Underwater basket weaving. I don't know.
There's some other one. It's some random one no one would ever know. You'd say, like, I didn't know that was an industry. Now, there's subcategories of each one.
So like home improvement. That's a big industry we're training, one of the top 10. But you've got doors, windows, garages, like A1. You got siding, countertops, cabinets, rebath. We train a lot of the rebath franchises.
So we train all of those. But see, the way my brain works is I'm working with the way the brain works. I'm working with human behavior.
So when we go into a company, the formula is really easy. And I did this as a salesperson selling in four different industries. Because a lot of salespeople, they might really do really good at cars.
I'm going to go sell life insurance. And a year later, they bomb. And then they go back to selling cars because they couldn't figure it out.
Because they're more selling on charisma and product knowledge. And you can't shift from industry to industry unless you understand human psychology and how people make decisions. That gives you gravity where you can go anywhere.
So when I would go into a company, I'd ask the chief sales officer back in my sales days. I'd be like, hey, what are the five biggest problems that your prospects have? This problem, this problem, this problem.
Now, when I say problems, I don't mean like they don't have money. I mean like. uh like for industry they want to make more money that's a problem they they don't know how to do real estate that's a problem they don't have the knowledge right so whatever those problems are it's going to be different for the industry it's like write write down the five biggest problems that your solution solves so now that i see the problems then i would ask them what are the for the prospect if those problems don't get solved. You'd be surprised. A lot of companies don't know that, which is really weird for me.
But once I find out what the problems are that that company solves, and then I find out the consequences of what happens if to the prospect. if they don't get solved, and I understand how their solution solves it, it's easy for us to train that industry. Because then we have connection questions that get the prospect to let their guard down. So we just wrap around the lingo from that industry to the framework of connection questions. Situation questions.
How do we help the prospect understand the real situation? Does it matter if it's cybersecurity to education to car sales? I'm helping them understand. So if a car says, okay, so walk me through, what are you guys driving now? I'm finding out what they currently have.
current situation right so it's really simple problem awareness questions uh you know let's say for uh life insurance so i'm not understanding like you guys already have this the work policy of $80,000, I mean, what's caused you to feel like that's not going to be enough? Well, the reason why it's not going to be enough is car sales. I mean, the Escalade you guys have, I mean, that's a fairly decent car. I mean, what's caused you to feel like you might want something newer?
So it's just taking different word tracks. I'm just plugging in the differences, right? I mean, the job you have now as a nurse, I mean, it's a pretty good job.
I mean, what's caused you to feel like that's not going to give you financial freedom? For real estate or education, say I could do the same frameworks in every industry. Now, I might have to change it up. So let's say if I'm selling cybersecurity. So are you guys 100% satisfied with the way your fraud stack is set up?
You might not know what that is, but like, yeah, notice I'm doing a hundred percent. Not, are you satisfied with the vendor you're using? Yeah.
So are you guys a hundred percent satisfied with the results you've been getting? You know what they say? Well, I mean, I wouldn't say a hundred, not, I wouldn't say a hundred percent, not a hundred percent.
What don't you like? See, it's just a way I'm open. There's no one, nobody's going to say a hundred percent. Nobody likes a hundred percent, right?
It's like, you know, when you, you first, you know, you go on a date. let's say you've fallen in love with this person for the first couple of months or like an angel that does no wrong. Everything they say is perfect.
And then six months later, you're like, oh, there's some things I don't like, you know, like nobody likes anything a hundred percent. We're just human beings. So it's just taking the frameworks and just plugging in the industry specific stuff. That's why we're like companies always come to like, how are you guys able to train every industry?
Cause most sales trainers are like, we just focus on two industries and we just give generic advice at ours, but we're, we like get industry specific training to those industries. But that's in more of our high level stuff and B2B deals that we do. That makes sense. Well, dude, I appreciate you.
Yeah. I learned a ton as always. We did a lot of technical stuff today. I know.
Well, you know, I think the first half we got a lot of sales specific training. And then I think that people don't really like to me, that's more of the business consulting side, the technical things that you guys are now moving into. So I think it's going to help a lot. Where can people.
you know, get, get, get, yeah, they can always follow me on Instagram at Jeremy Lee minor. That's my verified account. Uh, you can follow me there. You can also go to Barnes and Noble and purchase our, I don't have one here. I didn't bring it.
Uh, our Barnes and Noble bestseller. It's a wall street journal bestseller called the new model of selling, selling to an unsellable generation. You can purchase that book and, uh, yeah, you can get on IgE and message me and, uh, somebody on my team will message you back and you can always book in with one of our, you know, account managers to go over different training options for industry.
If you want to sell more, you don't have to learn how to sell more, but it sure does help. You know, I always say like, you know, we never have companies and salespeople come to us that want to learn how to sell less. They always come to us because they want to learn how to sell more. And I don't think anyone's a hundred percent satisfied with how well they're selling.
If they are, then they're probably not that good. Let's just be real, right? When I was in sales at a...
pretty high level. I was always trying to get better every week. How do I get better? How do I get better? A hundred percent.
Well guys, go check all that out. We'll link to it in the description below and as always, make sure you're subscribed and we'll catch you on the next episode. Peace.