that idea of optimization is I think in many ways behind this and the idea of optimization is exclusively in the realm of ego that there are enormous suboptimal decisions that we have made that redirected the course of our lives in such a way that we could actually become who we really are you know I put all the data into the AI and I I should be an accountant or I this is the exact way to do this that or something else and it all makes very logical sense and yet you know it was failing that test in uh accounting school that made you go damn it I guess I'm going to have to go and be an artist instead and then you became a sculptor but that's really what you wanted the whole time but if you had optimized what your ego had decided to do at 18 you may never have made that Fateful Error which liberated you from the wrong direction and for forced you to have to consider something else I've been rereading a book um by fromom called escape from Freedom which is a wonderful book written by an old uh Freudian analyst right and uh and all of the wonderful technology that we are exposed to including artificial intelligence but the automation of innumerable things the incredible seduction to to give up our own ability to engage something to think through something to make our own choices even if they're wildly idiosyncratic about any number of things that there is an incredible seduction to want to have someone something else someone else do it you know it goes to that fantasy that if I won the lottery and I had a billion dollars I wouldn't even bathe myself I'd have people feeding me grapes with their own hand and the fantasy is well that I would I would literally like be a baby that that's the Ultimate Fantasy is that I just kind of La around people rub my feet all day um which is incredibly seductive yeah I saw you smile robots that rub your feet that's that's it'll be a fleet of them so the automatic driving card you'll push your buttons drive up to the front of your door and you'll just hop in um but but that is really the existential piece of it that is the deep deep deep piece of all of technology is um when we yield to something that's going to do it for us fill in the blank um what does that do to the human psyche um and of course there's great benefit I mean look at all the machines the cotton gin for that matter you know these machines have have taken some honorous tasks out of human beings hands but now we're in a really different place where there's a possibility that we can program machines to tell us what to eat uh tell us how to cook everything right now people are wanting AI to take all the technology they can and tell them exactly how to exercise so they'll get optimal results so this idea of giving giving away choiceful because we're sure that the other is going to be wiser than we are and give us something better than we could imagine for ourselves and that's um that idea of optimization is I think in many ways behind this and the idea of optimization is exclusively in the realm of ego yes yes that there are enormous suboptimal decisions that we have made in our own lives we don't even have to look into Antiquity suboptimal decisions that redirected the course of our lives in such a way that we could actually become who we really are yeah I see I see I see the right way to wholeness is full of faithful detours and wrong that's right put all the data into the AI and I I should be an accountant or I you know this is the exact way to do this that or something else and it all makes very logical sense and yet you know it was failing failing that test in uh accounting school that made you go damn it I guess I'm going to have to go and be an artist instead and then you became a sculptor but that's really what you wanted the whole time yes but if you had optimized what your ego had decided to do at 18 you may never have made that Fateful Error yep which liberated you from the wrong direction and forced you to have to consider something else that um your ego would not have chosen otherwise the Fateful mistakes that we're going to be removing from life and the fantasy that that's going to make it really great so we're we are in the realm of uh the myth of Prometheus and kind of this incredible technological ability to do these things that we're we're only probably just beginning to even imagine and what does that mean you know Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gave it to humans and it was supposed to just belong to the gods and it seems like with AI it's another it's another thing that we're taking from the gods and giving to humans and that can have some some incredibly positive effects but it can also be quite destructive always always these things are um you know I I I want to share because it seems relevant that I recently had a dream that I think is related to this I'm not going to share the whole dream but I'll share an image from the dream the image was that there was a colony on the moon there was a lunar colony and it was all very very exciting but I was thinking I was trying to understand that image and of course a colony on the moon would be entirely dependent on the earth to provision it and it would be kind of sterile and uh and it it it it also it really is this image of like so much that's kind of out there that isn't really kind of literally grounded in the earth and I I think the dream possibly after sitting with it and working with it um actually relates to the dream book that Joseph Deb and I have been writing because one of the things that we've done I think I think we've done this and I'm both excited and maybe a little bit trepidacious about it as well is really created a protocol for working with your dreams to the extent that um it it it may it may have um what's what's the word I'm looking for it may have kind of T it might have taken the mystery out of it a little bit so I think it will be very very effective at helping people work with their own dreams but it also may have demystified it a bit too much it might be or or maybe that's the that's the fear that I have in the dream there was a kind of compensatory image of a talking rat that um that was I think uh helpful but but you know there there is this sense it's like wow you know if you if you uh like we would never want to um and of course young says we can't but you know Yung says you can't empty the unconscious but could AI empty the unconscious oh boy you know yeah I I I really doubt that I I I well I don't know I I I have great faith in the the um the ability of the unconscious particularly the collective unconscious to come up and grab us by the nape of the neck when we're not looking and Shake everything and know I the Joseph you're you're idea of we we lose the faithful mistakes boy I think I I would never underestimate the psyche and and the collective unconscious ability to go and say oh yeah you guys think you know you you know what's going on I mean this Sorcerers Apprentice stuff you know watch watch what we we we'll give you some faithful mistakes right but Jass so destructive right true uh yeah it could be if you know to your point that if we just go forward saying yes optimize yes more yes this yes yes that that it's going to come and say uh no all right now you get Jurassic Park now you get you know there's that famous uh interviewing quote from Young I think it was a good housekeeping magazine or something he was being interviewed by and he says God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly all things which alter my plans and intentions and change the course of My Life For Better or For Worse that was Good Housekeeping I adore that one that's a great yes and how how hard we're working to make sure that never happens exactly exactly and I get that I mean who wants violent interruptions to un life but it goes to what you were saying John is well we thr the unconscious by optimizing and having this wonderful logical algorithms you know inform Us in multiple Fantastical ways and how might the unconscious or The God within the unconscious take hold of us to violently disrupt that because it becomes more and more difficult to reach us yes to to what lengths yes might the conscious go yeah absolutely reclaim its place um that's sobering yeah and you know that there's a bit of irony in that in that you know I tend to look to my dreams to try and figure out the ways in which my unconscious is trying to slap me around or adjust me right know you're going the wrong way you're being goofy in this way or that way um but then you apply you know an AI in there to try further optimize the understanding of those dreams exactly exactly and the symbols and so forth and so in what way will that so it's a wild experiment it is and I applaud you for conducting the experiment because I think I mean truly life is about experimentation it is the human Venture eat this see what happens farm that see what happens build this see what happens uh and and sometimes great things happen and sometimes it's tough but I I very much like that Spirit of experimentation that is alive and well in you thank you my uh my my analyst when I undertook this kept telling me like this it's impossible you can't you this is impossible you're trying to do you should do it anyway but it's impossible and he's been an analyst for 50 years I'm like and the more I do it the more I realize he's probably right but H do it anyway see what happens