i'm to interview a patient and i'd like to give you some thumbnail sketch of what gestalt therapy stands for gestalt therapy is working on an equation awareness equal present time equal reality in contrast to depth psychology we try to get hold of the obvious of the surface of the situation in which we find ourselves and to develop the emerging gestalt strictly on the i and thou here and now basis any escape into the future or the past is examined as a likely resistance against the ongoing encounter a modern man has alienated given up so much of his potential that his ability to cope with his existence becomes badly impoverished my aim is this the patient should recover his lost potential he should integrate the conflicting polarities understand the difference between game playing especially the playing of verbal games on the one hand and of genuine authentic confident behavior on the other the civil war of inner conflicts weakens the efficiency and comfort of the patient but every bit of integration will strengthen it now in the safe emergency of the therapeutic situation i repeat in the safe emergency of the therapeutic situation the patient begins to take risks and to transform his energies from manipulating the environment for support into developing greater greater self-support that is reliance on his own resources this process is called maturation once the patient has learned to stand on his own feet emotionally intellectually and economically his need for therapy will collapse he will wake up from the nightmare of his existence the basic technique is this not to explain things to the patient but to provide the patient with opportunities to understand and to discover himself for this purpose i manipulate and frustrate the patient in such a way that he's confronting himself in this process he identifies with his lost potential for instance through assimilating his projections by acting out by acting out the alien parts of himself principally i consider any interpretation to be a therapeutic mistake as this would imply that the therapist understands the patient better than the patient himself takes away from the patient the chance of discovering himself by himself and prevents him from finding out his own values and style on the other hand i disregard most of the content of what the patient says and concentrate most on the non-verbal level as this is the only rich only one which is less subject to self-deception than his verbal pseudo-self-expression on the non-verbal level the relevant gestalt will always emerge and can dealt with in the here and now we are going to have an interview for half an hour by the way i'm scared you say you're scared but you're smiling i don't understand how one can be scared and smile at the same time and i'm also suspicious of you i think you understand very well i think you know that when i get scared i laugh or i can't to cover up but do you have stage for us uh i don't know i'm mostly aware of you i'm afraid that uh i'm afraid you're gonna have such a direct attack that uh you're gonna get me in the corner and i'm afraid of it i want you to be more on my thing i get you into your corner you put your hand on your chest is this your corner well it's like yeah it's like i'm afraid you know where would you like to go can you describe the corner you like to go to yeah it's back in the corner where where i'm completely protected they would be safe of me for me well i know i wouldn't really well and then it feels safer yes it made you win this quarter and you're perfectly safe now what would you do in that corner i just said just sit yes how long would you sit i don't know but this is so funny as you're saying this this reminds me of when i was a little girl every time i was afraid i'd feel better sitting in a corner okay are you a little girl well no but it's the same feeling are you a little girl this feeling reminds me of it are you no no no no at last how old are you dirty then you're not a little girl yeah okay so you're a 30 year old girl who's afraid of a guy like me well i don't even know if i i don't know i'll be afraid of you you i get real defensive with you now what can i do to you you can't do anything but i can sure feel dumb and i can feel stupid for not having the right answers now what would it do for you to be feel dumb and stupid i hate it when i'm stupid what would it do for you to be dumb and stupid but it put it so like this what would it do to me if you would play dumb and stupid that makes you all the smarter and all the higher above me then i really have to look up to you because you're so smart yeah oh yeah and butter me up left no i think you can do that all by yourself i think the other way around if you play dumb and stupid you force me to be more explicit that's been said to me before but i don't buy it i don't know what are you doing with your feet now wiggling them what's the joke now oh i'm afraid you're gonna notice everything i do gee i think you want me i want you to help me become more relaxed yes i don't want to be so defensive with you i don't like to feel so defensive um you're acting like you're treating me as if i'm stronger than i am and i want you to protect me more and be nicer to me are you aware of your smile you don't believe a worldwide i do too but i know you're gonna pick on me for it it's your your blood you're before me do you believe you're meaning that seriously yeah if you see you're afraid and you laugh and you giggle and you squirm it's falling you put in a performance for me oh i i resent that very much can you express it yes sir i most certainly am not being phony i i will admit this it's hard for me to show my embarrassment and i hate to be embarrassed but boy i resent you calling me a phony just because i smile when i'm embarrassed or i'm put in a corner doesn't mean i'm being a phony wonderful thank you if you didn't smoke for the last minute well i'm mad at you i that's right you didn't have to cover up your anger with your smile now you in that moment in that minute you were not approached well at that minute i was mad though i wasn't embarrassed when you met you're not a phony i still resent that i'm not a phony when i'm nervous again i want to get mad at you i you know what i'd like to do all right i want you on my level so i can pick on you just as much as you're picking on me okay pick up me i have to wait till you say something that i can pick on but what does this mean can you develop this movement it's uh i can't find words i want to develop this as if you went dancing i want to start all over again with you okay that's something i know a corner i'd like to put you on i'd like to ask you a question and because i have a feeling you don't like me right off the bat and i want to know if you do can you now play fritz spells not liking gloria what would he say he'd say that she's a phony for one so you are a phone you're a phony and you're a flip little girl and you're a show-off what would gloria answer to that i i know what i'd answer i'd say i think you are too no say tell this to me you tell me what a 40 i am not quite the right word but it's more like a a show-off for sure like you know all the answers yeah and i want you to be more human and that doesn't seem very human to me to know other answers it's not very you yeah right away find out how i'm kicking my feet and why am i doing like this why are you doing like that oh dear i've got eyes i can see you're kicking your feet i don't need a scientific computer to see that you're kicking your feet what's big about that you don't need to be wise to see that you're kicking your feet i know but it seems like you're trying to find some reason for it i don't this is your imagination okay i know what i'd like from you can i tell you what i'd like for you yeah i'd like you to be aware that i'm kicking my feet and to be aware that i'm giggling when i'm really nervous and accept it instead of putting me on the defense of having to explain it i don't want to have to explain why i'm doing these things did i ask you to explain you said why am i or what am i doing well what am i doing you said that's right kicking your feet i didn't ask you to explain it is your imagination that's not this for it it's the fruits of your imagination it's a big difference now do this again again how do you feel now i don't know getting stupid i'm not playing stupid this is playing stupid you did something with your hair there is many chance something in my hair what you object to no no okay no but i your your hair and your features go along with the the feeling i had about you earlier i had a feeling i could be afraid of you and you're the type of person that seems like you demand so much respect and so you're please pray for it i demand so much respect play this with you just so well you know how smart i am i know more about psychology than you do gloria so anything i say of course is right can you say the same as gloria something similar as globia but the same act as gloria i demand respect because i don't know you don't no i don't i identify it with my father but not me i don't feel i demand respect you don't do mental speech no sure a matter of fact i'd like more i'd like you to respect me more no you see so you demand whisper all right yes yes isn't it right if i could demand respect from you i would do it who's preventing you except yourself because i feel if i get myself out on the corner you're gonna let me just drown you're not gonna help me one bit and i know that i can't quite come up to standards with you what should i do when you're the caller encourage me to come out oh you don't have enough courage to come out by yourself you need somebody pull little menstrual distress out of a call yes so anytime you want somebody to pay attention to you call into a corner and wait till the rescuer comes yes that's exactly what i'd like and this is what i call phony pardon me this is what i call phony why is it phony i'm admitting to you what i am how is that a phony that is a phony because it's a trick it's a gimmick to call into call and wait there until somebody comes to your rescue i'm admitting it i know what i'm doing i'm not being phony i'm not pretending i'm so brave if i resent that i feel like you're saying unless i come out openly and stand on my own i'm not a phony baloney i'm just just as real sitting in that corner as i am out here all by myself but you're not sitting in that car well not now and besides that it's like passing judgment when you call me phony i just hate that anyway now we are getting somewhere i call anybody phony who puts an act and if you like somebody and you want to meet this person to go to this person tell them i would like to meet you i would call not for me but if you courageously go into that corner waiting to be rescued this i call for this i got food and i still think you're judgmental you know what i have a feeling you've never felt this way in your life you feel so secure that you don't have to feel anybody that does something like this you're going to pass judgment on there being a phony well i resent it good now play fritz passing judgment you are you're sitting up there in your big old chair i am fit i passed judgment has judgment on me now i don't feel close to you at all dr pearls i feel that's phony i feel like you're playing one big game right i'm sure we're playing games but in spite of the games i think i've touched you now and then i think i helped you when i called your phone well of course you did and i think i hit the bull's eye that's why you feel hard i don't know all i know is when somebody when i feel the way i feel with you right now i it's like you don't have feeling all right now exaggerate this what you just did um i can't i can't i want to laugh i want to i'd like you to be younger than me so i could really scold you how it must have been my age 30. good i'm 30 now imagine myself okay don't be so [ __ ] sure yourself don't think you're so doggone smart don't act so proud because you've never been in the corner i think you can be just as big a phony parading around like you're so damn smart you know all the answers as much as me sitting in my corner oh and i like the feeling of you being younger i'd like to really i'd like to embarrass you yeah embarrass me when you get me with you you wouldn't get embarrassed you seem unaffected tell me embarrass me tell me how old how ugly i am you don't look old ugly you look distinguished and that gives you that's all the more on your side if you look so distinguished then see that's more on your side too quickly can can we cease one thing we had quite a good fight no i know no i fit i don't think you're fighting with me but i thought you came out quite a bit well i'm mad at you wonderful but you seem so detached you don't even seem to care that i'm mad at you i feel like you're not recognizing me at all dr pearls not a bit this is quite true our contact is much too superficial to be involved in caring i care for you as far as let's see you right now my client i care for you as far as i like to like an artist bring something out which is hidden in you is as far as i care well i'd like you to i'd like to feel that there's some it's frustrating if i were to leave you right now and not see you again it would frustrate me to feel like there hadn't been more contact i feel completely out of contact with you like i'm talking to the baby that doesn't understand me or something like that i don't feel like we're a bit in contact and that oh that frustrates me that bothers me more than being angry with you i'd rather we were angry and fought than to have no contact yeah this reminds me of when my husband and i used to fight he sits there and he listens to me but he's not even aware of how much i hate him and how mad i am at him i'd rather you know i'd rather affect you you'd really hate me or something and i feel like you're purposely staying out of contact with me how should i be give me your fantasy how could i share you my concern with you i can't say in words i know the feeling i'd see on you but i can't say it's just a feeling like i don't know it's like i want you to respect me more as a human being that i've got feelings now we come back to the beginning so you want respect yes i do i do this is a different kind of respect than i meant the first time but you want you need respect yes i respect you so much as a human being that i refuse to accept the fruity part of yourself and address myself to the genuine part right now the last few minutes you were wonderful in germany we were not playing anymore i could see you really hurting well i don't feel i've got a right when i don't like somebody or i disagree with somebody's doing if if i should respect them if they're above me they're superior to me i don't feel i've got a right to really really tell you how mad i am that's that's garbage you're not taking the chicken you're getting back into your safe corner that's the way it feels that's what the safe corner feels like to me now go back to your safe crowd because we have to park very soon you steal yourself corner you came out for a moment you nearly met me you could get a little bit angry with me now go back to your safety i feel like you're telling me the only way you respect me as a human being if i'm aggressive and forceful and strong you i feel like you couldn't even accept my i'd be scared to death to cry in front of you i feel like you'd laugh at me and call me a phony i feel like you don't accept my weak side only when i'm yelling back at you or hollering at you you mustn't cry in my presence well i wouldn't even give you the satisfaction say this again no say this again i try not to i try not to cry in front of you or show my weak spot for fear you jump on me again are you real that your eyes are moist i'm aware that i feel more chokey yes i feel good could you choke me pretend but not for real why not for me well because i don't hate you that much you want to choke my tears back you want me to choke you so you wouldn't cry i'd like to if i'd like to choke you it would be to make you cry i'd like to see you weak i'd like to see you hurt and and vulnerable what what do this do for you make me feel like i'm i have more of a right to be hurt and you wouldn't jump on me so quick would you jump on me if i would cry no but i would jump on you if you would cry you're sure of this no i'm not sure of it what would what would you like me to do if you were to cry i was just smiling you're smart something off well because i got two feelings i was gonna say i want you to i want you to love me and hug me but then i thought no i don't want to what's your objection i'd be scared to be too close to you now we're getting some first you want to be close to me now you're afraid to be too close to me that's what i'm saying but that's right now we got the two points of existence but they're two different feelings close i mean emotionally but not physically but you've got the two parts of your existence now either far away in a corner or be so close that you can melt into one with other person it appears you travel between the two extremes i do you know what i'm thinking when i am really hurt and really upset about something and i want someone to love me like my girlfriend will do it a lot and she'll come up to hug me i don't i don't want it exactly see it's what i'm talking about you cannot sustain contact okay this is garbage what are you afraid if you were too close to your girlfriend if you let her hug you um the only thing i'm aware of is like when i perspire it embarrasses me that should feel how wet i am and it should hold my body up close and i don't know just are you aware of your facial expression kind of disgusting yes i am do this move please it's just icky i can just feel what it is i don't like it can you say this to me fritz you're icky no no what's your difficulty because i feel like if you really believe me that would hurt your feelings oh you must note my feelings well i thought i was so indifferent as you see before that no nothing could touch me now you suddenly discovered a way to touch me isn't it well you know what i believe i believe you're the type of person sort of like me that you act like it wouldn't hurt your feelings but it really would you act strong but you're you're soft and vulnerable inside there too i think your feelings could be heard sure but i don't think you'd show it very easy what would i do how would i conceal my feelings by turning it back on me by saying now what did you get from that gloria you turned the whole thing back on me instead of showing how hurt you were now can you say this to fritz how did you what did you get out of this friends say this to me would you get out of what what'd you just see just your sentence sure i know what you'd get out of it if i said what did you get out of this fridge you'd say nothing it didn't bother me it was you that did it you still wouldn't let me know you were hurt but i know what it would be if you told your true feelings that you didn't want to show your hurt so you covered it up same way with me in the corner not if i were hurt if i would cry what would you do with me you would be you wouldn't be so superior to me you'd be more vulnerable and i could pacify you and make you feel better you could hug me yes and i could be the baby yes yes i'd like that you'd feel more on my level i wouldn't have to feel so done with you and the other way around you would have to be my baby she would cry you would like to play the baby and be comforted and hurt and the poor thing well i'd like that too well i'll tell you something wrong i think we came to a nice closure i think we came to a little bit of understanding i think we finished this situation now right right the demonstration was in my opinion quite successful and consistent with my theoretical outlook the avoidance of the genuine encounter manifested itself in three ways the patient was first taking control by putting on a smiling sophisticated phony mask of oscillating between the pretense of being frightened and yet at the same time having me figured out thus being or believing to be fully in control of the situation secondly she was withdrawing by fantasizing of hiding in a corner thirdly she was blocking the real encounter of melting through crying which then would have been the real emotional meaning of this meeting the patient was capable of identifying herself with several fantasies she had projected onto me she was this was especially evident with regard to her initial denial for a need to be respected the need for environmental support started to come out besides so need to get respected it was verbalized in a wish to be cared for rescued from the corner and so on i broke off the session when the first tears begin to appear she began to play the role of the lonely child and apparently wanted to be hugged and comforted but here too the assimilation of her projection began to work and she began to experience holding me like a baby apart from assisting her and assimilating her in some projections the main therapeutic factor was to show how the inconsistency of a verbal and non-verbal behavior for instance saying that she was frightened and smiling at the same time a frightened person does not smile where i feel it was in the direction of her embarrassment this embarrassment was protected by her brazenness and anger to get to her existence existential embarrassment we would have to work through and eliminated the phoniness that is the ease with which we can superficially assume any role that is required for a specific situation this pseudo adaptation is her way of coping with life this is about what i got out of this session