Transcript for:
Michael Cole's Insights on WWE Commentating

You are the voice of WWE. It's Michael Cole. Thanks, guys. I am so excited to be here. We were talking right before the Rumble. I just said, hey, I should do your show one time. You want to know why it happened so quick? Tiffy time canceled on us. Oh, I'm a replacement for Tiffy. Way to go, guys. You a**holes. We need stories so our fans can emotionally invest in our characters. Why do they hate Logan Paul? Because he's a cocky prick. right and the crowd surfing thing was wild that would have never happened under vince mcmahon michael cole yeeting on a table would never happen trying to dap up rappers would have never happened under vince mcmahon but i was the original yeet by the way so did jay steal it from you yes and i'm sending him a cc assist not I had a little run back when I was a heel where I actually got in the ring. Terrible, terrible what I did. But I took bumps, right? Couldn't have been worse than mine. Watch WrestleMania in 2011 when I had my match with Jerry. I know at the time, we're about to go on the air live. It's all this pressure. I see Pat walk into the gorilla with these shorts on. What the f*** are you doing? Then he stormed off. And I'm like, where the f*** are you going? I'm not doing the show. What? Let's talk about it. My gosh. Caleb, you rolling? Yes, sir. Shelby, you rolling? Yes, sir. Ask me something. Mike, are you rolling? Not right now. That would be a show. Yeah, right? That would be a show on its own. Oh, man. I'm so proud to say this. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Michael Cole. Thanks, guys. I am so excited to be here. Really. Better. It's funny. We were talking right before the rumble about some stuff, and I just said, hey, I should do your show one time. And he's like, oh, my God, let's do it. He's pumped. I didn't expect to get a text, though, while I'm drinking in the bar at 1230 at night to say, hey, can you be at the Hyatt at 12 o'clock tomorrow? Do you want to know why it happened so quick? Tiffy time canceled on us. Oh, so. Oh, I'm a replacement for Tiffy. Way to go, guys. Thanks. Thank you. I can be honest about it because I told you when you said I got to be on your podcast, I was like, yeah, yes. Like, it'll happen eventually. We stagger the wrestlers because people just call us a wrestling podcast, which is partially true. It's a big part of my life now. But, yeah, we had Tiffany on, and she canceled, and we were like, dang, we're screwed. And I was like, I just had this conversation with Michael, shot in the dark. Let's see if he's available. So, dude, yes. Why did she cancel? Somebody told me it's because she's, like, super big time right now. Yeah, she big-timed us. I think she's doing Rogan today Oh really? That's the woman's world champ She's doing a whole media story So dude, Michael Cole So wait a minute I saw this go viral What happened? The whole Ludwig Kaiser protecting his girl thing This is the dumbest narrative That bro I don't even want to I don't even want to feed in- Michael Hayes is the one who started this. Of course he is. Bro, he- I was just telling Tiffany, like a good peer, like if you ever need advice on how to be a good wrestler, or like anything, I know she's the woman's champion, but I'm the champion of everything. So I was just like, yo, if you want to learn how to do a good moonsault better, a frog splash, like, I can help you. And Michael Cole came up to- or Michael Hayes, sorry, you're Michael Cole. Long night. Very long night. Very long night. He was like, he's like, busted you're you were flirting with tiffany and i'm like i'm just i'm just being a friendly guy and then ludwig took it wrong and then tried to attack me backstage with a chair because i was flirting with his girl or so he thought like i just i'm not i'm not here to cause drama bro i don't want any problems i'm here to win yeah big time rivalry though developed maybe bro you and kaiser there's no rivalry there's no there's nothing bro there's like These guys are peanuts to me. Let's be honest, you know? Peanuts? That's really going to go over well with the guys. Bro, it's peanuts to me, bro. I'm wrestling the big matches, bro. The Elimination Chambers, the top three of the Rumble. You were announcing top three of Royal Rumble. And you had an incredible move, too. Off the ring to the announce table, to the barricade, to the steps to back in. Brother. How did you take to this so quickly? No, Michael. This is your podcast. No, but I do have a serious question. I've been wanting to ask you this. I've done this for 28 years now. I've never seen anyone take to the business as quickly as you have. Now, McAfee, who's obviously my partner, Pat's done great in the ring. He's incredible. But you just came aboard and, like, it was awesome. Like, how? Thanks, Michael. Seriously. The answer is, I think, far less exciting than you'd think. I wrestled, like, the majority of my younger life. Right. And I did a ton of stunts. for youtube videos yeah right if you like it kind of made perfect sense that i would end up right where i am and then you obviously add the talking shit being the villain and now it's kind of like everything and athleticism too like it's like it's like when you watch him Last night, because this has been a couple years brewing now, and there's been so many times where I've talked about, as an outsider looking in, his level of athleticism. But when you see him enter the ring with the caliber of talent that was in that ring last night, it's so palpable, the level that he's on. I don't think anyone could actually do it. No, I'm serious. I really, really noticed it when you entered last into the ring. And you have seen... all these people you know cena punk and and all the you know new guys old guys everybody and you're out there walking on this railing and i'm thinking to myself i'm like dude i know this kid very well but is there a chance he fall there's no chance he falls he's gonna he's gonna nail it he's fully focused he's fully locked in what do you say about the wall first of all that's the nicest thing you've ever said but i think people see really see it dude honestly can i tell you a quick story before we get into your podcast about that table jump yeah you Do you know how many people came up to me and didn't think I would make that jump? Bro, I had like seven producers come up to me and they said, are you sure you can make that jump? I say, bro, I'm certain. There is zero percent chance I don't make that jump because it was like a nine foot leap. You nailed it. Did you have a backup plan for this? No, right? No, he would have been eliminated. No, no, no. Well, which is good, too, because it's almost like a manifestation of that mishappening. Did you practice the jump? A couple times. An actual ring to table? No, no. Just the distance? Yeah, yeah. Do you think that his skills and his ability to do it there would potentially translate to a traditional? Like, could you go to the standing long jump and... compete i did the long jump you did of course he did yeah what else haven't you done no i'm a jack of all trades multi-hyphenate stop stop michael michael michael this is your podcast exciting for me bro this is exciting for me i think what you do is probably the most impactful part of what we do you are the voice of wwe you are telling the stories for for anyone tuning in who you isn't a fan or in the wwe universe you're the one connecting the dots and literally literally painting the picture with your words so people can follow the story and in my opinion the wwe storylines are so rich and that's what sets the universe apart and the organization apart that's why it's worth you know multiple billions of dollars and you're the one painting the the canvas for the viewer and that's why netflix wanted us right you I mean, Netflix understands that we're a storytelling entity first. We're not professional wrestling anymore. We haven't been for many years. We're an entertainment product. And we need stories so our fans can emotionally invest in our characters. Why do they hate Logan Paul? Because he's a cocky prick, right? And I wasn't aware. As a character. I feel loved and revered. Oh, yeah. After the entrance last night. The loudest boo of the evening. His mom said last night. I probed his mom. I queried his mom about this last night at McDonald's. At McDonald's? Yeah, I said, we went there for him. I said, Pam, are you aware of the number of people who dislike your son? She said those people are simply wrong. That's her answer to it. She's like, no, no, no. I'm like, so there's no world where you can see a criticism, right? She's like, absolutely not. They're simply wrong. I was like, okay. That's my mother. That's my mom. She's amazing. But no, again, we're an entertainment product, and it's the emotional connection, whether you're a bad guy or a good guy. It was one of the reasons we're on Netflix now. I tell people all the time, I've never pretended in 28 years to be a professional wrestling announcer. I'm not. What are you talking about? I'm a narrator. I'm a storyteller. I'm a pitchman. I'm a play-by-play announcer, somewhat. I embellish stories. I create characters. I'm a jack-of-all-trades. I've never, I think that's the one thing that when I first started my career here, one of the reasons the fans hated me, because I wasn't a professional wrestling announcer. But I just think over the years they've come to respect the work ethic, and they also understand that, to your point, I've been a soundtrack for a couple of different generations now, not only within the business, but also the fans watching at home. And I think that people are beginning to understand now that, yeah, you know what? You don't have to call every single move in a wrestling match. You make sure you call the big spots, the big moments. But it's more important for me to explain to our audience who you guys are. and especially with Netflix we have so many new viewers that are tuning in now and I hear all over the country wherever we travel people coming up to us and saying I've never watched WWE before I never understood what it was I thought it was a bunch of old men running around in tights now they're understanding that it's actually a television show episodic each and every week and so one of my jobs now which I love is being able to educate this new audience on who you guys are like who's Logan Paul you know who's uh who's john cena uh who's roman reigns but do that in a way where we're not insulting uh the old school fans yep who already know all that you're the morgan you're the morgan freeman shawshank of shawshank redemption that is ww you're telling everybody about andy's life exactly and that's that's partially why i appreciate what you do so much because I try to speak to the people who are getting, you know, absorbed into this universe as well. I'm not always, like, appealing to the current fans. I'm trying to bring people in and show them why we're special. But you mentioned it, your work ethic. Your work ethic is crazy. 28 years. You've only missed three shows. Three shows. Yep. Three television shows that I was assigned to. That I was assigned to. One was, my wife had a kidney transplant back in 2001. You get a pass? Yes. The second one, my son. Were you kind of mad at her for it happening on the time around the show? So there's an interesting story about this. Dude, you couldn't have waited? There's an interesting story about this, though. Her brother-in-law was the one who was going to give the kidney. So since he was a living donor, we could play around with the schedule. She was actually supposed to receive her kidney transplant on, and we lived in New Jersey at the time, on September 11, 2001. What? And we were actually in the hospital that morning when everything happened. And they hadn't begun the procedure yet, so they shut everything down because obviously all the hospitals in the New York City area had to become a trauma center, right? So her transplant was put off for three weeks and they rescheduled it for a Monday. which happened to be could you imagine that happening like on a morning where you already have so much anxiety about what's about to happen and then that happens it was we and we were in we you know obviously we were in the hospital we were in the prep room whatever and we had no idea what was going on and the the place that the hospital just it was utter complete panic people were going and we were like what the heck is going on not gonna have your procedure today there's been a major accident in new york and then we of course go outside the tvs are in the lobby this stuff is going on and it was it was surreal okay so that's crazy that's one that's fine you get a pass second one was my my son my uh my son's wedding another pass and then uh the third one was we actually took a family trip last year for the first time we were able to get everybody together about that last one my kid my kids are older now and i've got i've got grandkids so i took a family trip so i actually got that up but they were the three the three i missed okay uh how do you maintain the family environment and all the love if you're traveling every single week. That's why I've been married 30 years. So I started, I went to Syracuse University and I started actually in news, in radio. I was a radio news journalist. And then back in the late 80s and the early 90s, radio news was like, that was the thing. If you wanted to be a journalist, that's where you went. I mean, I traveled the world for CBS and it was so great. But I met my wife at the time. She was a sales person at the station I was working at in Houston. That's where I met her. So Yolanda's only known me as being a person that is on the road. So we've never had that. We got married. We were together seven days a week. And then all of a sudden, I'm flying around the world. She's never known that. She's always understood me as being a person that travels. And she knows I enjoy it. I also tell people, I think I've been married so long and been with her for so long. Because, you know, and you know, you travel a lot, Logan. When you are home. And those are very precious times and very precious days to be. And you don't want to argue and fight with your wife when you're at home. Because then what are you going to do? You go on the road for five days and now you're miserable again. So I think that's one of the reasons. And we have great lives. You know, I get on the road. I get to hang out with my buddies. She's at home. She hangs out with her girlfriends. And then when we're together, it's me and her. So, I mean, obviously, yeah, when we're home, like we don't want to fight with our partners. But yeah, no, it's inevitable, I feel like. I mean, sometimes. It depends. Listen, the older you get. Is it not to not fight with your wife? Not anymore. Not anymore. How long did that happen? Just out of curiosity, if someone was in a metaphorical relationship and there was fighting. Maybe. I think, you know, the first few years, I think, in a marriage were always rough. I know my kids have gone through that, too. They're both married. But I think as the years move along and you understand that, hopefully, not that this isn't for everyone, but. Like, she's my best friend. She's my life partner. I knew that the day that I met her. And I think that as you get older, you just don't want to waste valuable time arguing over silly shit. Most arguments are silly, stupid shit. Is there an age gap? My wife is four and a half years older than me. Oh, four and a half. So it's not that big. No, not at all. Because that's funny you say, like, as you get older. That's why if you date. like someone that's younger than you, they sometimes will still want to argue because they're not older. Right, they're not older. They don't understand that, you know? And the thing with me and Yoli is we had kids at a very young age. We were in our early 20s when we had our children. So we were empty nested by the time we were 40. And that gave us a lot of time together. She could travel on the road with me, go to different shows and stuff. And, you know, she's not a wrestling fan, but she likes to go to the cities. And then now we have grandkids, right? So we have, I've got a little three-year-old. grandson that runs around, which is unbelievable. I love it. But, you know, she understands, too, like we live in Texas, love San Antonio, had a nice ranch out in West Texas, and we get to spend a lot of time there, which is really cool. But, you know, for us, you know, I had a very long conversation with her a couple. I just signed a brand new contract with the company. So I'm going to be here for a number of years. Wow. Cool. Balling. Yeah. But the company really made me feel. You know, really for the first time that I was really important to this place. What? After 28 years? Yeah, after 28 years. Sometimes. Why? Because of the paycheck? Oh, the paycheck's part of it, but the new regime had a lot to do with it. But when I went to sign the new deal, I sat down with my wife, and, you know, I'm 58 years old now, and I'm like, they want to get me to retirement age. And is this because we had talked about me getting out of this for a long while now just because of the travel and everything else. And, um... And she was like, you got to do it. This is your legacy. You're going to be miserable if you don't finish this up the way you want to finish it up. See, that's a wife. And she was great about it. So she was 100% on board with it. And so I'm here for a while. Hey, congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. On that note. No. What? What are they doing to my guy, Corey Graves? That's a strange situation. I love Corey. Me too. Love him to death. He. I still don't understand all the dynamics of it. I know that he sent something out on social media that was pretty critical of the company. You know, he tried to explain to everyone that he was trying to generate some interest in maybe a type of a storyline. I don't think the company saw it that way. It was not a word. Right. It was a shootout. Yes. Allegedly. Allegedly. And again, I think he's... Him and the company are working that out. I love Corey to death. He's an unbelievable commentator. Beside McAfee, he's probably the best partner I've ever had. Dude, you guys are like such a good duo to me. And I personally love Corey as well. He's a great person, but I also think his work is fantastic. I seriously have a very special spot in my heart for commentators, because the work you guys do, even just... Michael, you're there all day. all day. You have to be. Even announcing the pre-show matches. And look at, like, Logan, look at the Rumble this weekend. I mean, we had, there was 60 people involved in two Rumble matches. Then you had a tag team match and a championship match. I have to be able to put together the numbers and the statistics and the stories of everyone. Dude, it's insane. And make it different. And I think one of the things about the old regime, and listen, I will never, ever disparage Vince McMahon. Yeah, he's got his personal issues and whatnot. But from a professional standpoint, I'll never disparage the man. I would not be here today without Vince. No one would. He gave me everything. Stuck with me when I was learning to be a wrestling guy. Wasn't a wrestling guy when I came here. Why do you think he believed in you so much? I think a lot of it really had to do... I think there were two things. Jim Ross, obviously, was the man. I still think the greatest ever. I think Vince was ready to... understood that JR was getting older and he needed to bring in somebody younger. And so I just think because of my background, and I was a good announcer at the time, I just think he, JR had came to the WWE already a wrestling guy. And I think me being new and fresh and not a wrestling guy, Vince was able to mold me how he wanted me to be an announcer. And he stuck with it. And even when I sucked in the beginning and everything else, the fans freaking hated me. And... Vince stuck with me. That's kind of interesting, though, because Vince is pretty cutthroat. Yes. That's why I talk to Michael Hayes about this all the time. It's amazing that I've lasted in this company this long. Yeah. Because Vince, there are certain things that would set that man off, right? And he would just go, he would just like, okay, you're done. Fire. See ya. Like sometimes for no reason. Yeah. But he stuck with me 100% of the time. And so I'll never disparage the man. But Vince was very. very heavy-handed, controlled. It was his company, his sandbox, whatever you want. So I never was really able to break out and be myself, with the exception of a little bit of a heel run I had over a decade ago. But when Vince left and Paul came and was in charge, Triple H, he really changed things. And then we brought in Lee Fitting, who came from ESPN. And those, Lee coming from ESPN, where the talent is the announcer, he... came here and said, I don't understand why our guys at the desk aren't, you know, bigger and have bigger personas and are as respected as the people in the ring. And, you know, being old school, I understand that you guys in the ring and the girls in the ring, they're the ones putting their bodies on the line each and every week. And people are buying tickets to see Roman Reigns. They're not buying tickets to see Michael Cole. But as you said earlier, we're a very important part of the product. Super. What Lee and Paul have allowed us to do is bring our personalities out and You know, you're seeing the real Michael Cole now. The Michael Cole that crowd surfs. Exactly, the guy who crowd surfs. We'll talk about that in a second. But, you know, you're seeing, I'm a sarcastic prick at times, and I like to have fun. And, like, Pat called me the other day, you know, I'm the old white dude, right? And he's the young punk, right? Well, he's the young white dude. Yeah, young white dude. But Pat, like, working with him is unbelievable. Because Pat, we were talking about this before we got in here today. Pat is... Pat. But he doesn't change. He doesn't put on a show or anything. He's Pat McAfee in everything that he does. So, you know, we hit it off. We had just hit it off from the beginning. And it's like two guys at a bar and watching wrestling. That's what it is. You know, that's cool. And we just such a vibe. That's what it is. And Pat doesn't try to be a wrestling announcer, you know, and I think that's what makes him different. I actually have some a note on that at the top. You're talking about with every passing day and second. passing at the sands of i feel the wrenching feeling of existential this is what the hell are you doing this is for my therapist i'm sorry i'm so sorry that was the wrong uh note i'm so sorry leslie i'll i will be at the meeting on tuesday um pat mcafee described your pants is too tight while you were crowd surfing the other day called you a booze bag and a doofus yeah do you have a do you have a response yeah he's right on every single take on that i am a booze bag Just like you guys, I was out last night until 2.30 in the morning. Hey, come on. No, but the crowd surfing thing was wild. I saw that. This would have never happened. That would have never happened under Vince McMahon. Really? Michael Cole yeeting on a table would never happen. Trying to dap up rappers would have never happened under Vince McMahon. But the crowd surfing, then Cody comes out and he's like, okay, we got to do this thing. And I'm like, do what? Oh, God, here we go. What's going to happen now? And then he says, you're going to crowd surf. I'm like, crowd surf? You've got to be kidding me. So then he goes, it's easy. Look at me. We look down. It's a six foot drop. And like, I'm not jumping down there. I'm 50 years old. Kill myself. So I actually follow my ass, look like a dummy. And then I get into the crowd and I'm doing the whole thing. And I'm getting my junk grabbed and people stick. Good thing I moved my wallet to my my sport jacket. But I've never done I've never done it before in my life. But you did. Now you did it. Yes. But even as a kid, I'd never done it. That was your first. So I find out afterward. Cody's explaining to me why I should have showed. told you how to do this you got to keep your legs closed you got to be rigid and i was flip-flopping all over the place we probably trusted the fact that there's a bunch of like dudes in the audience they were going to be grabbing yeah but if some of those people don't like me right so but uh that was wild that was the first time i'd done but again i i would have never like the whole social media thing you know i i never i'm finally starting to understand it now like i appreciate so much like what you've accomplished and what pat's accomplished and all these guys You know, I show speed, of course, who's in the rumble. Like, I never understood any of that stuff, but I am beginning to understand it now. And now I find myself, you know, actually going to X and going to Instagram and being entertained and understanding that this is the way of the world now. And also understanding, and McAfee was very important in helping me understand all this stuff. But now, like, doing silly shit, like, I don't tweet much, but me and Pat will get together on Monday and put out a controversial tweet or something, and then I just like to sit there and watch all the responses to it or whatever. But, um... But just seeing like sounds like just seeing how exciting it is, though, like, you know, getting on a table last night with Wade and Pat and just eating and eating a ring and eating with Jay and looking like a bird flopping my wings. But then going on to look at his social media and just saying, oh, my God, it's pretty cool. People actually like this or they hate it, but it doesn't matter. People are talking about it. And to me, that's that's really cool. But again, I'm having the most fun I've ever had in my career. We can tell. We can tell, bro. You're like lighting up, talking about this stuff. And it's so cool that you have this new contract, and it sounds like it's probably going to be the most exciting, like most you part of your career, which is sick. Netflix was also a big part of this. I really, the cool thing, I've been able to be a part of a lot of changes in our company over the years. First time we did network TV on UPN, I was there. Spike TV back in the day, of course, USA Network. I was the guy on Fox, which was really important to me because I really wanted to be able to call a network television show. And then the Netflix thing was like, I have to be a part of that. Like, that was, you know, what a game changer for everything. Super cool. Yeah. Super cool. It's like it's the new forefront of, like, you know, live TV meets a streaming network, and we're at the front of it. Yep. I wanted to ask, because you were talking about the chemistry that you and Pat have. How important is it? to have chemistry with the person that you're commentating with have to yeah you you cannot do your job i've been blessed with being able to get along with most of my broadcast partners over the years and i've worked with so many of them yeah um i've always gotten along with everyone they've respected my work i understand their work but with pat it's different pat and i are really good friends um so pat was a uh you know he's always a wrestling fan yeah uh his whole life uh he came to one of our house shows uh in indiana a number of years ago you And we just started talking and he's like, I'd like to try this. And I'm like, well, you know, he was at Barstool at the time. And we're like, why don't you come in and start doing some stuff with NXT? And he came in and he started doing the countdown shows and all that. And me and him got really, really close. And then our relationship imploded for a night because at WrestleMania a number of years ago. So I'm no longer in charge of the announcers. I used to not only be an announcer, but I was in charge of all the announcers. So I was a VP in the company doing all that. And so we brought Pat in to do the WrestleMania kickoff show. And, you know, everybody at WrestleMania is tuxes and ties and the whole nine yards. And Pat shows up in shorts. Now they were tuxedo shorts, but he shows up in shorts. So now we're about to go on the air live. It's all this pressure. I see Pat walk into the gorilla with these shorts on, and I'm like, in front of everybody, which is my bad, what the fuck are you doing? Dude, you're in fucking shorts. It's WrestleMania. Stephanie McMahon's there. Vince is there. All these people are there. I'm dressing down Pat. You Lil Bro'd him. I did. And I, you know, in the heat of the moment, I didn't think about it. Then he stormed off. And I'm like, where the fuck are you going? I'm not doing the show. He goes back, he's packing his bag in the locker room to leave. He goes, you just embarrassed me in front of everybody in this company. And I never thought of it that way, but he was right. Now, what do you mean? Cold out and wearing shorts. Yeah, but that's more of a result of the fact that you had like this hybrid talent management and cold house role. Yeah, that sucks. It did. And that's why you had to get rid of that. Exactly. Ironically, I've worked in that situation before too when I was doing shit with Maverick and you would tell me to go fucking scold people. It's hard because these guys are your peers, right? Yeah. You're working on the air with them. Then you're also managing them. Thank God I got out of that. But yeah. But then Pat, you know, he's going to pack his bags and leave. And we ended up working it out. We showed Vince the shorts. And Vince was, of course, Vince, great. Why are you yelling at him? Because he just likes to stir the shit, right? So, yeah, so it's wild, man. And then ever since then, I think that brought us closer together. And we've been best friends since. I'm doing a show this week, you know, before we go up to Raw. And it's just, it's cool. But it comes out on air. Like. You can tell, like, you guys are buds, right? And it's just this great chemistry that you all have. Pat and I are friends. We talk all the time. And it just comes out. Is there, so when I first started, like, really paying attention to the dynamics that were happening in the ring and in the commentary table, it seemed like there was, like, a heel announcer and a babyface announcer. That was always the formula. With you and Pat, is that existent? This is by design. We have two completely separate sounding announce teams now for the first time in a very long time. Everybody, once Vince molded Michael Cole over the years, every person we brought into this company since then, Vince wanted to be Michael Cole. And that is why a lot of these guys who are great broadcasters were never successful. Okay. Because they couldn't be me. And Vince wanted them to be me. What Lee Fitting and Paul have done now and Nick Khan is we've developed two completely different announce teams now. So now. On Fridays, you have Joe Tessitore, who's a pro. Yeah, he's great. Unbelievable. But he's not me. He's completely different than me. He's more of a professional broadcaster, and he doesn't jump up and down and act like an idiot sometimes and scream and yell like I scream. I'm a screamer that way for 28 years. Nobody ever changed me. Joe's more relaxed. And then he's got Wade Barrett, who's great, and Wade's a heel. Pat and I are different. They wanted us to be different. And like I said before, we're just two guys sitting on a couch drinking a beer, watching the show. That's what it sounds like. And I don't think yeah, the heel dynamic is fun, right? But I don't I think our fans are so sophisticated now. This isn't your Are you sure about that? Yes, very much so. Just because I sometimes I walk and I like when I'm walking down the aisle and I'm looking out and sophistication is the last word that comes to mind. I really see these people. Trust me, Michael. I look them in the eyes and like sometimes I'm just like I'm like whoa there's nothing going on well he's doing this he's doing his heel yeah of course no i'm serious but there there are those like that but i mean our audience is so different now than it was it's harder for us it's harder for us to do it because we're not the heels so he's like he's like shit what do i do i don't want to bury the audience but yeah when i was a heel i love to bury the audience but no i really do think though logan seriously that our audience is a lot more sophisticated now than they were before We don't have to shove things down their throats now. They get it. Yeah, that's true. I don't have to explain every single thing of everything. Oh, my God, I think he's a bad guy now. No, let the fans figure that out. So I wanted to ask about that. This is the thing I'm most curious about. How much of the storytelling are you keyed in ahead of time or calling on the spot because you're following it and kind of crafting it yourself? Like, are producers in your ear? Telling you little spots to look out for. What's the actual art of crafting the things that you're saying? So no one's in my ear anymore. Vince was a lot. But again, it was his world. What would he say? Hey, hey, what the fuck was that? He would say anything like, give me great advice or call me a fucking moron. Seriously. I mean, just whatever mood he was in and whatever I did. Most of it was constructive criticism. It really was. I mean, there were days where Vince would just be Vince. But, you know, I think this whole Vince screamed at Michael Cole for 25 years thing is way overblown. I mean, there are moments, but it's going to happen in a relationship for that long. Yeah. But to your point. you know first off pat mcafee knows nothing pat doesn't want to know anything he doesn't want to know anything that's going on in the show he wants to go out there and just be him intentionally he's like he's like you and our pokemon box breaks amazing amazing a lot of this the question asking that's coming out of him right now and would be for me as well is like we can relate to this yeah like like someone's level preparation a lot of times like depending on the episode he'll come super prepared i'll i'll purposely intentionally not even look at the pdf yep I want to come into this the same way the audience is. I want to figure this person out as I sit there. That's why I like this whole conversation is super interesting to us. And that's, and that's, Pat doesn't want to know anything, which makes him Pat. Yeah. I need to be prepared because I, I don't know every single step of every single thing that's going to happen, but I need to understand storylines. I need to understand where we're going to go with certain characters so I can sort of lead the audience in that direction. Cause I am the narrator, right? So you want to make sure that. you're leading the audience a certain way. You're the baseline, and you're going to keep that DNA and that through line of the story going, and Pat is the action points. Yep, exactly. And then, for instance, at the Rumble, I'll sit at ringside all day, like Logan said, and the guys and girls will come up and talk to me, and Gargano and Ciampa, the tag champs, DIY, came up to me, and they explained their whole outlay of their match because there were some certain little things that I had to know about to be able to bring forward in the story and explain why these things were happening. And also, at the end... Street Profits got involved and people were like, why are they getting involved? So I needed to have that knowledge to explain to the audience why this is happening. That's what I'm talking about. So those are the things. Okay. Yeah. Because we've done stuff like that before with you. Even, you know, the right hand, the titanium rod. And you've reinforced that. The brass knuckles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember talking to you before the Roman match because that was the biggest match of your career at that point. And I remember talking to you guys about that match and just little storyline things that I had to get in to help you. So it was, yeah, I mean, that stuff's really, really important. Because, again, our job, first and foremost, is to enhance our talent. And the better our talent get from a story standpoint and the more emotionally invested our fans get in our talent, obviously we sell more tickets and more people watch the show. Yep. So. Okay, when you made the jump from radio to WWE, like, and you were a massive wrestling fan? I was as a kid, but. Yeah. Same. Yeah. How and why? So. it's sort of a long story but I need it to explain how this happened. So I was in radio news in Texas traveling all the time much more than I do now. We were young and into our marriage and I got transferred to New York to work for CBS in New York and they promised me that you're just going to work out of the city. So I'll be home all the time and well I got there and I ended up in 96 going out and covering the I had covered Bill Clinton's campaign in 92, 96 I had covered Bob Dole's campaign and um I want to talk about this after I was out I was out uh that entire year 96 and my wife was like what the hell are you doing first off you moved my ass from Texas to New York um and now you're not even home she's on the campaign so Todd Pettengill I'm not sure if you guys are familiar Todd Pettengill used to work in our company but he was a huge radio DJ in New York at WPLJ which was a powerhouse in the time in the 90s and i had worked with paul with with todd for a while on radio uh he was working here and he was going to leave the company he said hey come in for an audition so i came in and did an audition and didn't hear for a few months but then they said you want to come work here so i figured listen i'm in radio now i have no television experience let me go try this job for a couple of years get some tv experience get a tape under my belt and i'll leave and go back and work at cnn or somewhere well 28 years later i'm still here so uh it just turned into a love you just this whole business but but but by this point you you know the moves you you you're very even call them half the time though it's just you don't have to yeah you know it's just you don't it's the drama you know i sometimes you you talk to hardcore fans and they get all hung up on oh he didn't call out a canadian destroyer he didn't know the name of the move who gives a shit yeah seriously it it's it's the story that's what people care about do you know why i relate to this it feels like karate combat Really? A hundred percent. I commentate a really big up-and-coming karate, pit-based karate league. And like walking into this and being brought on because of energy and bravado and comedy because they want it and social media, you know, pull as well. to sit there next to GSP and Boss Reuben and talk about insane like legends of the game right and to talk about you know jujitsu and grappling and all this stuff and I'm sitting there like were there were there moments where you were like I can't do this like I didn't know so the funny thing about it is when I started this company in 97 WCW starts kicking our ass yeah yeah and then the screw job happens in Montreal with Bret Hart and Vince and Shawn Michaels and I go home and And my wife's like, what are you doing? Your company is about, you just left. What are you doing with your life? You just left a lucrative job at CBS to go to this circus. You've been here six months, and now all of a sudden, the company's going to go out of business because we thought we were going to go out of business. It was wild. What saved me in this business in the beginning was when I first started, our producer at the time, Kevin Dunn, said, you know nothing about wrestling, but we think you're a good broadcaster. You need to learn the business. So they sent me out on the road. Every single weekend to our live events, which we were running every weekend at the time, and I rode with JBL, John Bradshaw, the old cowboy, who one of my really good friends, he taught me the business in the car. My job was to make sure that there was beer and whiskey in the car after every show so I could drive them to the next town. But that's how I learned. All right. And I spent a year with these guys. And excuse me, that's how I learned the business. And then, of course, with Michael Hayes and Paul Heyman and guys like that. But yeah, there were times where I was like, I made a huge, huge mistake here. Like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And then Jim Ross ended up getting sick in 1998, and they threw me out there for four or five months on the main shows. And I really was, I was green. I was like, this is wild. Like, I have, I'm not going to, I better start looking for another job. Whoa. Yeah. And you're trying to, and you're also at the same time, like, who were you commentating with or announcing with at the time? Jerry King, Jerry the King Lawler at that time. Yeah, come on, dude. I mean, and you're trying. Who I actually beat at WrestleMania. Yeah. But you're going out there, and it's like, you're trying to, not only are you trying to announce for the first big shows yourself, but you have to learn the synergy like this immediately. And that, that's one of the hardest things. I mean, this, this whole thing took, you know, at least 60, 70 episodes to get to a point where it was like a semi honed. And now it's a product. Right. But like, that must've been very hard to do in real time on main broadcast. And especially when it comes to, to, to wrestling, because. As you know, our fans are, they are the hardest, they're the most loyal. They're also the hardest fans in the world. Judgmental. Judgmental, yeah. I mean, it was hard. And, you know, thank God. I always tell people this. Thank God that back in the late 90s, there was no social media. Because I don't know if I'd be here today if there was social media. What do you mean by that? Well, just the way that, you know, everyone has a voice. You know, I know at the time 99% of the world would have hated Michael Cole, and I probably wouldn't have made it. But yeah, it was a wild time. Well, do you feel like that? Because one thing I've noticed, you know, having been around the business a little bit with him is that the hatred is an equal value currency as love in this org, right? And so it's like it's an attention, a currency of attention. And so even if they were all day, we fucking hate this. Does it? Does it change when it comes to the commentary crew? There's two types of heat. There's the heat you're talking about, which is the Logan Paul heat. When he walks out and people boo him. And it's not because they hate Logan. It's just because he plays this character that people don't like. It's not a character. Well, I know. I was trying to be nice. But then there is what they call go away heat. They consider it a bad product. Yes, they just consider it's a bad character. It's a bad product. It's a bad person on the air. We had some announcers recently that just didn't work out because, and you would, you could go online and, you know, 99% of the people hated him. And you know, at that point, like you feel inside yourself, like this guy's not going to make it. And then when you realize, and you listen to some of that, you know, he's not going to make it, you know? Yeah. I, I think I have go away. You think so? The only reason why it works is because I'm a great wrestler. you are i'm not i'm not no but you're like that's why you don't you don't have go that's what he's saying is not like like certainly there's a handful of the audience that is genuinely like get this guy out of here because they're jealous yeah that's different you you you know they are seriously they're jealous of you i get that a lot too that's what pam's i know that's why i was like my mom said the same but logan they're jealous of you i mean look what you've accomplished since you've come to wb not only here i mean look what you accomplish in your life but um i mean it's the same thing for us like People sitting at home watching a show, well, oh my God, Michael Cole sucks, he didn't know the name of that move or this or that. I would, first off, they're mad because they don't have my job. Second off. Put them in that chair. Sit in that chair. No, dude, your job is fucking crazy, Michael. I'm not kidding. But people don't get it. I know. I get it, which is why I have so much respect for you and the commentating team. I would rather do what I do than have to do what you do. Dude, how do you talk so much and not get tired? I'm surprised I have a voice today because I blew it last night. You know, I get tired. Don't get me—especially as I get older, you know, and— I really have to take care of myself now. I eat right. I, you know, I still like my whiskey, but I work out and seriously at my age, you know, my wife's always like, why are you going to the gym again? I go every day because it's not because I want to, obviously you got to look halfway decent when you're in television, right? But as you get older, you know, your body starts to break down and this job is very taxing, both mentally and physically. People don't understand the physical things of it. You know, three and a half hours jumping up and down, screaming, yelling, you know, it's, it's, it's hard. So you got to try to stay in shape for that, which you're doing. As I get older, I realize I need to do that. But our vocal cords that way. It's because you're thinking about it. It's because you're thinking about it. Our vocal cords are muscles. And just like anything else, I utilize those muscles at a very high level every week. Oh, I get it. And it has now these muscles are in they're in shape now, right? And so it's funny seeing broadcasters come into our business for the first time from other realms and try to do what we do it takes them a long time i remember one of our announcers uh kevin patrick kevin egan he works with mls now but he um he had he had a terrible time like with his voice like his first few months here he could not he wasn't in shape to do this dude not even just the the amount of talking you have to be on that's like we could i could probably do this podcast audio and have like you we could we've done three in a row maybe some days like four in a row and it's all right but live tv having to be on is like that's the real drain for me there's no net right it is live and And especially in this day and age, you've got to be very, very careful what you say, obviously. Especially even with Netflix. We thought we were going to be able to get away with a few other things, but Netflix is very strict with that, too. I heard this. People told me they're actually a little more. So guys like us that are talking live, especially working with Pat, who's got no buffer. He's just Pat. You've got to be really careful sometimes with what you say, especially. And that's another reason. And Pat keeps me young, too. I've got to keep up to date with. the phrases the kids use today and stuff like that make sure trying to make sure you have the right aura well yeah we'll also make sure that i'm not i'm not saying stuff that is an l it has like changed into a different and also one thing i've noticed too and maybe you notice it is like for some of the longer stuff like some of these events that i do with karate combat are like six seven hours long right by hour four or five that that barrier of like should i say this or not say this, starts to kind of melt away a little bit. You're starting to become mush. And all of a sudden, things are coming out of your mouth. Wait a second, did I say that? Am I here? And the problem with our stuff, to your point, Logan, too, is it's not just being on because it's live television. Every single match and character have to be given the same respect and gravity. So I can't treat Logan Paul any differently than I treat Ludwig Kaiser or I can't treat Roman Reign. So like at the Rumble, I've got to be high energy for every woman's entrance for 30. And then obviously as you get close to the finish and the big moves and putting everybody over, then you've got to be able to treat the tag team match with a new group, Motor City Machine Guns, at the same level you would treat the women at because you don't want to feel like you're disrespecting them. And then you go into the Cody match, which is just an intense ladder match. That's a championship match, so you've got to be up here. And then, of course, the men's rumble, which is the biggest event of the year. So you're saving up energy. Well, it's hard, but you've got to keep that energy level the whole way. And then now you've got 30 men entering. And last night, you know, you were in there. That last six, I had goosebumps. Oh, it's insane. You had Hall of Famers in there. Did you think about that at all? Yeah, I'm getting goosebumps now. I mean, you're in there with guys, John Cena, Seth Rollins. Punk. Punk, Roman Reigns, Jey Uso. That was insane. Insane. I looked around. I was looking at these guys, and I was just like, damn. I'm right at home. Right. No, I know, but you felt it. I was like, I'm along. You know damn well deep down inside you were going, how the hell am I even here? Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. I honestly was like, how the hell is CM Punk still here? But I was the original Yeet, by the way. You were? Yeah, that is true. Yes. When did this happen? Years ago. Years ago. In fact, I thought we had put that in a bulletproof coffin. I thought that was dark. So did Jay steal it from you? Yes, and I'm sending him a season desist. I'm actually sending him a season desist. Not a work. He will be getting a season desist. And I'm collecting everything. Everything. Well, now he's the main eventer, so. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Let's talk about, like, Let's talk about the other commentators in big sports, even under the TKO umbrella, the UFC. Yeah. When you look at guys like Joe Rogan, John Anik, even Daniel Cormier, Bruce Buffer. It's funny. He came on this podcast, and he was saying the same thing about how he works out, and he's got to stay in shape because, I mean, Bruce goes hard. Yeah. When you look at guys like this, are you is it Do you kind of see eye to eye and is it like a respect that only like a commentator can understand? There is a respect and one of the things that was really cool is when Joe Tessitore came aboard. Joe is a boxing guy right and I've learned a lot from Joe about combat sports and when Joe came aboard to me you know a lot of people were like a lot of people love the hire a lot of people didn't like the hire but to me I loved it because I felt like it finally legitimized what I've done for 28 years. We brought a a real true life legendary commentator who's called Monday Night Football and College Football and everything else. He wanted to work here. He came to us to work here and we brought him aboard and that to me legitimized everything I did. And I think there is that, you know, I love Joe Rogan. I mean, his stuff is, he's a screamer yeller emotionally. He's like me, right? And I just think across the board, commentators are this fraternity because For so many years, we didn't get the respect I think that we deserve. But now in this new era, not only in wrestling, but just in life and in the world, we're finally getting respect and we're becoming personalities. I think social media is part of the reason for that. You know what I'm saying? You can build your personal brand and, dude, you have an entrance now. Yeah. It's usually- And people actually cheer. Yeah, they cheer. They always cheer before the show starts or, you know, this little like- pre-shows we did one at the hq man they love you because you're building your personal brand and then you just get to like people just get to listen to you you're you're doing podcasts back to back to back to back to back every week and i think too you know logan the thing about that is the big thing for me is i'm there i'm finally myself like i i think people looked at me as a corporate stooge right for vince mcmahon for so many years and i really was a vince puppet you know i'll admit that and i'll never i would never ever trade that for anything because i learned so much under the the man from a professional standpoint. But I think in the last few years since Pat came aboard, you know, I've, I've just decided, fuck it. I'm myself. I'm, I'm like, you know, I'm going to be Sean Coulthard, my real name, right? I'm going to be, I'm going to be that. I'm going to be the person that my friends know, the people that when I go have a drink at a bar, the guy who's sarcastic and laughs and has fun and loves this business. Cause I really do. Everything has given to me in my life, but it's fun, right? I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't sure. aware of how how like down to earth you were oh thanks yeah yeah and why am i usually a prick we we never really know what to think you know no i i don't know i mean bro like you literally are like the voice of the wwe for generations for 28 years and so like i don't fucking know you in my opinion you have every right to be like that's not people's default no i just i don't live in hollywood you used to live in hollywood i still do we meet some yeah we meet some shitty people yeah but the majority but the majority of people are usually they're getting better because they have to but then you have to like and i'll just say it oh i hope you somebody getting called out i mean i don't know bro there's this whole like blake lively ryan reynolds situation oh my god are you filled in on it do you know yeah and they just seem so fucking out of touch right like they're just not living in reality and like people People lose themselves in their own truth. It happens in our business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, people think they come into their stars and then they're going to leave and be a star outside of here. It doesn't happen. Sorry. No. You know, our product makes you. I'm sorry. A hundred. Come on. I mean, there's very few Logan Pauls that come into our world and are successful. Most people get successful here. They think they can leave. Who's that? Well, this is what. Cena, Batista, and Rock. Rock, yeah. This is one of the biggest. This is possibly the biggest example of it. Like, it is. It is. Like, you. Think about it. When you talk to people outside of the WWE sphere about what happened at Rumble last year and Speed came out, what the fuck are you talking about, man? What are you talking about? Did you hear about the tariffs? What are you saying right now? 90% of the world don't even know what wrestling is. But that 10%, there's nothing like it. So, you know, I think, you know, I. My wife is the main reason that I am the way I am. She's not a wrestling fan, doesn't watch a product. I go home and the last thing I talk about is WWE. Really? Never. Keeps you grounded. She was more excited when I told her this morning I was going to do Logan Paul's podcast than she was about anything else. Hell yeah. And I'm doing Pat McAfee's show tomorrow and she was more excited about me doing that than anything else. Yeah. But more excited about Paul's. More excited, 100%. Yeah, got it. But the... But she keeps me grounded. She really does. I go home and I'm with her. But listen, I'm a dude. I was brought up in upstate New York, and I'm in Texas now. I got a ranch, and I'm an old redneck. Hell, yeah. I dip tobacco. Hell, yeah. I drink beer, and I like my whiskey. And last night, that's why I always stay away from downtown in these cities. I don't want that scene. Me and Wade Barrett went up to the bar last night. Yeah, what'd you guys do? We sat at the bar until 2.30 in the morning. Just talk shit? And just talk shit. Didn't even talk about wrestling. Just talked about life, right? No way. Yeah. And it was great. That's me. That's what I want. I'm going to leave here today and go sit in my hotel room the rest of the day, right? Well, I don't know about that last part there. What are you going to do? Just going to sit there? Yeah, I'm chilling today because we're going up to Cleveland tomorrow. But what will you do in the room? I'm back into The Sopranos now. You're rerunning The Sopranos? Yeah, I'm rerunning The Sopranos. You've already watched it all? Oh, yeah. This is the third time I've actually watched it. Greatest series of all time? Greatest series of all time. Nothing touching it. The Wire is close, too. I love The Wire. Sopranos is nothing. I love going back now because... Even 25 years later, it's still timeless. I'm rewatching season two of it right now, which, by the way, is potentially the best season. I'm a season three guy. You really, I have to urge you. He's a little bit younger. I'm a young man. Look, he's been telling me for our entire relationship. It's the greatest. There's never been a bad episode. My favorite episode is Pine Barrens. Of course. Well, that's the most famous episode. They're saying he was an interior decorator. It's the greatest series. Maybe the problem for a lot of watchers, new viewers on it, is you do have to invest a little bit in season one. I think they're piloting. They're trying to get people excited about the show. They're trying new things. Like, what was they? They had a character in episode one that went into the store when Christopher was ordering the food. It comes back as a completely different character. I can't remember who it was. But how can you not get hooked, though? with Chrissy and Tony driving the car through the plaza and running people, running that guy over and beating the shit out of him, remember? How do you not hook that up? You gotta watch. You have to. He feels out of it. I'm more interested in Beast Games, you know? Yeah. Or like Severance. Severance is great too, by the way. Have you started the second? No, I'm so excited. So we're one episode in the second season. Holy shit. I heard it's even more rich and potentially better than season one. Season one, and... I didn't know if I was going to make it through it initially. Like the first few episodes, same thing with Sprannels. I was like, I don't know about this. And then, oh my God. It is the only show where the last episode of season one, I felt like this perfect mix of like fully fulfilled in terms of the questions I wanted answered and all the plot like holes I needed to fill, but also... I need more. Yes, and it just happens. And it ends. It's like, oh, my God. Wait to see how season two starts. They waited a while. Three years. Yeah. Because it was that. You know Ben Stiller directed it. Yeah. As far as shows now, like it's comparatively to what HBO was doing on Sunday nights, you know, 15 whatever it was years ago. It's that. And then have you guys been watching Succession? Yes. You watch Succession? From what I understand, it's equal. Awesome. Like equally. Unbelievable. And then I just finished American. Primeval on uh, oh, yeah, yeah Violent shit really really really good Peter Berg's just awesome. I'm watching I'm watching Maybe you guys haven't seen this but I'm watching fallout which is based on the video game. Oh, yeah Yeah, I've seen it did better than it. Oh were they around the same time? Yeah, yeah different products Yeah, I know, but it's still just like I don't know. I'm proud of my boy Jimmy my boy Jimmy Have you watched the Beast games? No, no, no, give it a shot. Okay, that show is fucking sick I tell my wife she's my wife's one of makes me sit down and watch this stuff. I'm antsy. She's B, I'm A personality. I'm always like, I'm up five in the morning with the dogs running around. How do you feel about that opposite situation? I mean, it works for you. Oh my God, greatest thing ever. What I've had to learn though as I've grown through my marriage is I, because I'm intense and I think it's a lot. I think it's why I'm good at my job too. But I think, you know, and she's so laid back and she's retired now. So she's just like. I'm gonna sleep till 10 o'clock and I'm up at 5 with the dogs, the gym. I've learned to temper my intensity and that's just helped. I'm like an OCD guy, like I have my calendar, right? And I gotta go through my calendar and make sure that everything is checked off every day. You should get the big ass calendar. Do you have it? No, I don't. There's a big ass calendar. There is. It's huge. It's a big ass calendar. Our boy Jesse Itzler made it. Everyone has one. You should get one. Get it online? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll just get it. We can probably just have them send it. Snap out your address. We'll send it to you. So, like, in my wife's life... You can use Logan20 for 20% off. Okay. Is that actually true? I got you, Jesse. Yes, thank you. I'll give you a call. But I won't, like, so... Like, I go through the calendar, and she thinks I'm crazy. Like, she's like, she won't even look at her calendar. Whatever. Just tell me what I gotta do. But, no, I mean, that's... It's just... I mean, that's why it works. Do you think you could commentate for the UFC? if the roles were reversed? I don't know because I don't... Could I do it? Yes. Could I be good at it? I'm not sure. Why? It's not storyline driven. It's not episodic television. The finishes aren't predetermined. It's a fight, right? And you've got to know all that stuff. I think my job is much more difficult only because I have to weave in the stories and the characters' development. I'm not calling just calling a fight. It's creative. I would agree. Yeah, I would totally agree. The real aspect of it is, you know better than anybody, is how what the misconception of people thinking that, okay, it's rigged, it's, um, rig's the wrong word, it's, uh, it's scripted, um, to finish we know, and they go through what they're going to do in the match. People misconstrue that to not think it's physical. You athletes are the most, listen, I had a little run back when I was a heel or actually got in the ring terrible. terrible what i did but i took bumps right couldn't have been worse than mine dude watch wrestlemania in 2011 when i had my match with jerry did you i was in there i did horrible i didn't kick terrible worst worst match ever but but but i but i was that guy my tooth knocked out two tooth two teeth oh actually yeah cm punk during the day as i was going over my match with jerry because he's a friend of mine He just decided to run across the ring and give me a knee lift. Well, dummy me didn't move out of the way, knocked my tooth out. Then in the match, Jerry hit me with a dropkick, then knocked my other tooth out. So I understand how difficult, but like, and that's just taking some simple bumps. Like, I don't know how people that think, like, look at what Kevin Owens did last night. Dude, he came out of the gorilla. I don't even know if he was like fully conscious. Dude. I, this big, bleeding on four sides. I'm looking at Kevin. My only thought was. way to go cody i like you know fuck fuck this guy he threw him through a table that was and a guy turned inside it was everybody's telling me they're like those those are those are blood packets right surely i'm like no no no no no no no and then jd mcdonough on raw last week oh no i thought he was dead i really did he michael tell me about that he came off that ring and he hit the desk so hard it moved our desk back i seriously thought he was dead and then come to find out later he had a um punctured uh he had didn't he really hit his head He had broken ribs and a punctured lung. And he went on and finished the match. Another 10 minutes. So this is the craziest part about wrestling. Because didn't that happen to you? Yes. You got hurt in the match, right? Yes. I pulled my MCL mid-match. That was on the... On the... You know, Larry, right? No, no, no. This was in my third match against Roman. Right. I remember it. I'm in the main event. I got to show up. Right. Also, like, I got Roman Reigns across me. Goddamn. It wasn't even one of the big... moves no no he was it was on some it's just some stupid shit i'm much more focused on my mechanics now than i have been before and also i'm gonna protect myself more because like sometimes like guys are stiff they're not really looking out for you i haven't i haven't wrestled with him yet oh good luck oh my god good luck nah but nah so i'm gonna protect myself a little more but um if you're actually injured you gotta not sell that you're injured unless it's part of the story and then if you are injured you should sell if you got hit in a certain way. You have to do the opposite of what's true. And for a guy like JD, who, you know, broke his ribs and punctured his lung, you're looking at 10 more minutes of match in your head. And he did it. How tough is that guy? How the fuck am I going to do this? Right. It's got to be all mostly adrenaline at that point. Well, I mean, you look at other sports. A guy, you know, what did you say you did with the injury? I tore my MCO. So when a guy does that in the football field, he's out of the game. Out of the game. Goodbye. You guys have some sort of sick pride that you want to finish these matches when you get hurt. Sadomasochistic. It's crazy. Mad respect. But I'll go ahead and speak for my guess is the majority of the roster. It's not so much like pride. I mean, yes, it is. Maybe like 25% of it. But, dude, we're dedicated to the product. We're dedicated to the product. Isn't that amazing? Dude, you can't let this company down. You cannot let this company down. But you're also... I feel that, like, fully, and I've been here three years. I will not fail on behalf of the WWE. Well, that and also for yourself. And I think that's why you're successful. And I think that's why the top-level guys and girls in our company are successful. Because, yes, they won't fail for the WWE, but they also won't fail for themselves. Yeah, yeah, true, yes. You know, I feel like, listen, I'm not, and I bet you feel the same way I do, I'm not tooting my own horn, but I have failed at very few things in my life. Well, it must be nice. Which is why I've gotten to where I am today. No, I really, and I'm not trying to be an asshole about it or have an ego about it, but I've been very successful in everything I've done from college through my news career to here. Now, yeah, I've made mistakes, there's been failures along the way, but for the most part, I've been pretty successful. Because I've got this unbelievable work ethic like you do, like the stuff you all do. And that's what drives me. Like I don't you were talking about this earlier. 28 years, I could be resting on my laurels. I could have retired. I couldn't have signed a new contract if I didn't want to. But every day I feel like, okay, I did it. I thought I had a great rumble. I got to have a good raw on Monday. And I got to have a great raw the next week because if I don't have a good show, it hurts you guys. It hurts the boys and girls that are in the ring because you guys are drawing money and you guys are trying to establish a product i have got to be on every single time that i am see i love i love that org related uh sentiment and it's something that in our world we don't feel we're we're on bosses right yeah i mean i mean until wwe it was the same for him it's like dude if i want to do this i'm going to do this if i want to take a risk in this direction and it fucking fails who cares like it doesn't i i haven't felt that mentality in a long time i'm jealous i'm actually super super at it it's sick I tell people, I'm like, dude, I love having a job. And I love working for the WWE. We're a family. Yeah, that's so sick. We're a family. You see it at ringside. And you've gotten so, I've really watched the maturation of you over the last few years and how comfortable you've gotten with us. You know, like in the beginning, it was like, you know, we didn't, especially me, like I didn't know how to act toward Logan Paul. I don't think Logan Paul know how to act toward us. And now you're part of the family now. It certainly feels like, you know, Michael, I'm pretty closed off in general. Like, dude, my team is. extremely skinny like for the output that we do it there's literally like four or five of us um and i i like it that way because like in general i don't like people right and then over join the club i just i mean like i just don't um i used to relate and then now i'm but no i just i started to like open up a little more and it takes some time with me but i realized like kind of how similar everyone is backstage yep And the saying that I feel like fits the vibe of WWE is, we're all here because we're not all there. Yeah, that's right. Everyone's a little cuckoo. It's the island of misfit toys. Yes, and that's what it feels like. Everyone's like witty, just like fucking with each other, like laughing, having fun. There's a lot of good people in the company. To see CM Punk having the fun he is today after what he went through 10 years ago is incredible. But you guys, your chemistry is what is Pat and I chemistry. There's the introvert. And there's the extravert. And that is how it is. Like with McAfee, I'm like you. I don't want to talk to anybody. I got to be polite, obviously. But I just want to keep my head down and go do what I got to do. Pat, holy shit. And he's like that behind the scenes. Oh, my God. Bro, I remember when I met him. Every single person. He came up to me. He had a 15-minute conversation with his security guard yesterday. I'm like, God, we got to go to Gorilla. He sees it all the time, bro. He sees it with me all the time. It's craziness. But listen, we have an unbelievable corporate structure. Nick Khan, Paul Levesque, Lee Fitting. Those three men have changed my life forever be indebted for them. And it's because of that mentality and because of the trust that they put in all of us is that I would go through a wall for them. Yeah. And, you know, you really I mean, Paul and I, Hunter and I have been together since day one. I mean, he gave me a wedgie my first two months here on television. That's how ours started. Right. And we've been together forever. And, you know, Paul and I professionally. I mean, it's it's just an unbelievable relationship. He trusts me. I trust him. Nick, as you know, is. just an incredible human being. I don't know if you've had much interaction with Lee yet, but Lee is a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Lee's a genius. He gave me some, he gave me some nice compliments. No, we can see it in the product. It's, and it's cool. I think they're also, I think the company now is a little, from what I hear more receptive to the ideas that the talent has. Oh my God, dude, it's so different. Like for the most part, our, our talent are given bullet points for their promos and they're not. really scripted much anymore. I mean, there's certain things you all have to hit because of the storylines, right? So they're able to be themselves. Who knows the character more than you guys, right? That's really important. Putting together matches has now become Paul, the producers, and the talent. Before it was Vince, right? So it's really helped the product. And people are having fun. Dude, everyone, you see the locker room now. People are having a blast. Because of themselves. And I think it's even more important nowadays, too, as there is some breakout from the silo that is the WWE being the only platform. People have their own platforms. So if he's going to go out and tell a story, and then he's going to go and put that on his. his channels with 25, 30 million followers in the channels. Of course, he wants the story to be creatively aligned with what he wants it to be to an extent, at least. Right. So it's so it seems like in that respect, even the WWE is making all the right plays. Well, and the company was so restrictive for so many years, like, you know, our talent wouldn't be able to go out. And, you know, we had a big controversy over the Twitch streams a few years ago. You know, but now everything's open up. Go be a brand. I was a bead. The big thing about our company. Yeah. The big thing about our company is. We want you as a performer to develop your brand. We in fact have people in place in our offices that are helping our talent, especially younger talent, help them grow their brand. I feel like I should be on that team. You probably should. I'm trying to get McAfee to be on that team too. I think you guys are unbelievable examples of people that have just created something like out of thin air, really. I mean, the stuff that you've created to me, And I'll admit, again, I'm learning, right? Learning over the years of what you all do. And I didn't know Logan Paul at all a few years ago. When you came to the company, obviously, I had to learn more about you. And the more I read it, it's like I'm just completely blown away with what you've created. And the same thing with Pat. I mean, he's an NFL punter. We always knew he was entertaining, especially when he was a player. But to create what he's created. He's incredible. It's craziness. And I have so much respect for that. I'm a lifer. I appreciate the kind words, seriously. I want to say one thing about the JD spot. Perhaps you could help me understand why he did that. I have no idea. I texted him the other day. I said, dude, what are you thinking? Yeah, why did he do that? I texted my match producer, Shane, my guy. Oh, yeah. Hurricane. Yep. You know, we were talking about it. And I was like, Shane, like, this wouldn't have even made it past, like, the ideation phase. Like, with the distance. But that distance and then the table right there. They probably just called it in the ring. That's probably what they did. Crazy. He's insane. We make fun of him all the time because he's got a big head and stuff. He is one of the nicest guys on the planet. He's a hard worker. Very respectful. I love JD. I've loved him since he was back in the NXT UK days. Jordan Devlin. Just a really cool dude. We have so many great people. Yeah, dude. Yeah, dude. It's a sick company to work for, dude. It really is. You don't always know why shit happens. Look at the Donchik AD trade last night. Did you see that? Oh, my God. Who knows what people are thinking half the time. I actually screamed, holy shit. No, it's insane. Wade's like, what are you talking about? I said, Donchik just went to freaking. Insane. The Lakers. Insane. I heard a lot about that. What was going on behind the scenes. Yeah, I was reading a lot about that today. 100%. Yeah, not being in shape. Prime sponsors the Lakers, so. There you go. No, bro, it's a really, it's a big deal. Let's go. And by the way, like, the Prime logo on the mat. Crazy. and now all the logos we've got on the mat like this would have never happened we always we you know i understand i understood vince's perspective that that was sacred yeah um but you know it's 2025 you know where uh you know where it makes it a little difficult for talent especially if talent is trying to build their brand the last thing you want in your really cool move pose like is is or you with the title brand is a brand yeah but this is a brand yeah but when you but when logan paul is in the ring and this is brand uh oh for me it's fantastic for me it's just gotta be the right brands too like i would want to get my head smashing over a wing stop logo are you serious that's amazing dude that's what we that's all we talked about for the rest of the night last night he wanted to go to wing stop you were talking about the branding thing though right like it's funny like i'm sort of developing my own brand like And I'm not even working on it. Is it a competitive hydration product? No. Not at all. I'm not sure if it was. There are a lot of things I've thought about, but no. That would be great, right? And by the way, I'm going to have my new Michael Cole drink on the thing. No, it's just funny how it just starts to evolve, right? I never thought in those terms until I started working with Pat. And Pat's like, you're missing out on so much stuff, dude. All the talent are. You know? All the talent are. Everyone should be thinking about how to not just build yourself, but how to build businesses. Long-lasting businesses that have impact. It's the next level of conversation. And use the vehicle you've been given. Use the vehicle you've been given. I think every talent in the WWE should be thinking like that. And it would be cool to be on that team to potentially help build it. I see it pretty clearly for some of the folks in here. I mean, there's a lot that could really be building off on that. One last question for me. If there's a future Don Imus, Mike and the Mad Dog. I know I'm hitting you in the sweet spot right now, watching this right now. Future commentator for the WWE. How could they potentially break through into the space in a time where it's very noisy out there? Do you have any advice? Are you just talking about wrestling? Are you talking about... No, just in general. I mean, like, if they want to get into the funnel. It's hard. It's much harder than it was... You know, when I went to college in the mid 80s, I, you know, I went to Syracuse, which is hotbed for sports broadcasters. Yeah. And luckily at the time, you know, there was, you know, four television stations and a couple of cable TV stations. There was no social media. So there weren't a lot of jobs then. So I was pretty privileged to get that was the youngest announcer ever hired by network radio when I got out of school. And so I was I was lucky. But now there's so. much programming out there that if you want to be a broadcaster you can get in go to school for it work on it get in at a small level and just build yourself you can only do it through reps as you know okay but also how much of it is like the voice because like you're very um listen listen listenable there's a lot i you know i did voice training in school and stuff oh yeah but yeah but you have you have the radio yeah yeah you have you listen to tessitore he's an unbelievable voice um That has a ton to do with it. It does. You don't hear a lot of high-pitched squeaky people doing, you know. Wade Barrett's got that nice English baritone that just sticks out. Pat, it's, you know, Pat. And, you know, it's just, that has a lot to do with it. It does. But it's experience more than anything else, you know. It's just going out there and being able to do, you know, I just, I got lucky that I hit news radio at the time when that was, if you wanted to be a serious journalist, you went to news radio at the time. Yeah. And that's, and I got lucky and I got to cover. on some unbelievable things that really helped shape my life. And then coming into wrestling, I at least had a broadcasting background and I had done some sports too. I just had to learn this product, but I was ahead of the game when I got here, which is good. How much, uh, how much more you got in your contract? Can you say? Yeah. Eight years. Amazing. All right. Well, hopefully we ride out these next eight years together, Michael. I do. We'll hope you're going to be here that long. We need you. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it, man. I love it. As long as they'll have me. And, um, as long as the fans keep booing. Yeah, you know, listen, I'll be honest, Logan, you know, and, you know, just time to, you know, pat you on the back a little bit. First off, thanks for having me. Yeah, I never thought in a million years when I told my kids I was doing your podcast, they were like, you, you're an old man. I said, yeah, but I said, I am so excited. You know, I'm excited I have to do this. But like when you first came aboard, like and again, I didn't know much about you. I learned so much over the years. Like I was like, oh, here's. another celebrity guy gonna come in and gonna do a match whatever roll my eyes at it yeah you know um like bad bunny he he did well though yeah he did well he's good but uh but then you just like like i i've never i've and i was impressed when pat had his matches like his match was he's incredible my god i was too i was like damn i have never and i'm not just blowing smoke here in the 28 years i've been in this business i have seen all-time greats Hall of Famers. John Cena, one of my great friends, and I believe the greatest of all time because of longevity and how long he's been on top. For me, though, Logan, I've never seen anyone come into this business. And I know you said you wrestled your whole life and everything. This is different. And I've never seen anybody come in and do what you've done in such a short period of time. It is absolutely amazing to me. And I'm not just saying that because I'm on your show. I've said it on the air. It's just I've never I've never seen someone take to this. Not only the skills in the ring, but I'm talking about promos and the way that you manipulate the crowd and just that personality and that R. It's different. I've never seen anybody come into this business with that ever before. And I'm only getting better. Thank you. That makes me feel a way I can't even describe because emotions are a little weird for me. They are for me too, but I'm starting to get a little more emotional as I get older. It's easier when you say something that is extremely objective and factual. It changes the dynamic of the conversation. And I mean it. I seriously mean it about you. I did not know what to expect working with Logan Paul. I don't think anybody did. You are completely different than I thought you were going to be. Intelligent. It's unbelievable. Thank you. But the emotion is, as I get older, I think, I get more emotional. And obviously, with children, it's a very important thing. But I don't. I think that's the other thing over the last few years of how I have gotten better at my craft is allowing myself to be emotional. Like Cody Rhodes, for instance. Cody and I have known Cody since he was a kid. And, you know, been through all the trials and tribulations with that guy. And when he won at Mania last year, like, I legitimately cried. Like, it was because of what he's gone through, right? I know when John has his last match because of what I went through with him, it's going to be a very emotional moment. But I think that helps me with the audience because it's like, this guy's real. Like this isn't fake shit. This isn't scripted. This is Michael Cole loving not only a product, but people that he's known for his whole life and you want them to be successful. And I hope that I'm able to call, you know, the highlights of your career, because I would love to develop that relationship with you where I'm able to be emotional about you winning your first world championship, which will happen and stuff like you're winning a Royal rumble, you winning money in the bank. I'd like to be emotional about that. And hopefully this is our first step on that road to be able to do that. Well, I mean, I'm not going to be emotional about that. Inshallah, God willing. How are you getting to Cleveland? McAfee's got a private jet. Why don't you come on ours instead? I'm doing his show tomorrow. they're flying there today yeah i know that's a i heard but yeah what what uh what jet is it uh i don't know what he's got well we got a g5 so you know it's a little bigger i gotta call you maybe i don't do you i hope he i hope he has a g6 that would make me so happy no way no way um but uh do you know what you're doing tomorrow uh i i don't know what i'm doing yet i don't but i know we're going to cleveland which is where i'm from yeah yeah i'm from cleveland yeah they really loved you when you came out of summer man honestly what the fuck that was that was so funny what would show some respect this has been fun guys really i never thought a million years i'd be honest dude this was awesome just as rich as i thought it would be michael truly thank you so much keep doing good work and uh yeah man let's write out these great work okay great come on stupendous stellar magnificent work michael cole ladies and gentlemen thank you wow like and subscribe Please,