Zenri is on YouTube. If Satan is real, or if demons are real, if they really are a real thing, and these occultists really can summon them, do you know how fucking terrifying that would be? Just to find out that it's real? Isn't that like the old saying, the greatest thing that Satan's ever done? Yeah, that's it.
That's it. And I look at the world we're in right now, Joe, and everything going on. on and to me it's hard to believe that there ain't something meddling or something you know i mean it's just something pulling on there's some dark energy right of human behavior right like what would cause someone to want to embrace satanism well i find it very remarkable that they were willing to share the strategy that satan is working on yeah but with this group of course Their plan was that it would never get out.
That's right. Under seal of death. That's right.
Their plan is that you don't have to worry about saying anything by the great master. Because as soon as anybody strays some, the spirits will tell the high priest. priest right away was taking place.
They did what my Bible said about Wednesday night. I said that Monday and Tuesday, by Wednesday night the Spirit Counselor appeared to the high priest and says, you have one of your defectors. He says, that mortal guy, you're gonna get rid of him because he's out there saying the Bible with the Adventists, the people that the Master hates most on the face of the earth. What you are about to see is one of the most important interviews I have come across during my 15 years of research into the supernatural and occult. It is an absolute must-see to understand the reality behind the subjects of ghosts, demons, and the so-called globalists.
The man being interviewed is Roger Morneau. In his youth, he was recruited by a secret society of elites that turned out to be deeply involved in spirit worship and engaged in the occult. and supernatural. Everything that Roger reveals in this interview comes from his experiences in the early 1940s, and he made some frighteningly accurate predictions about global events that are taking place now.
This interview was recorded in the mid-90s. You told me A. I got something fantastic to tell you.
He said, I am affiliated with people that speak with the spirits of the dead. How would you like to talk to the spirit of your dead mother? And I was shocked.
I was shocked. He said, you wouldn't be afraid of talking to the spirit of your dead mother, would you? While still in the city of Montreal, Roger Morneau became involved in the worship of demons. In this two-part series, Roger gives us a first-hand account of his harrowing brush with the powers of darkness, and ultimately his divine rescue.
Conducting this exclusive interview are Dan and Karen Houghton of Heart Research Center. Let's now join the Houghtons and Roger Morneau as we together enter part one of a trip into the supernatural. How in the world did you ever get involved in praying to demon spirits?
Well, when I came out of the Navy after World War II, I was looking for a trade in Montreal, Canada. And at that time, I ran across a fellow that had been on a particular ship with me. And he said, hey, Mono, you're alive. How nice to meet you.
He says, let's have dinner tonight. I said, my boss, can I have the evening off? Because I was the assistant to the wind. Spencer Bowling Alley and Billiard.
It's the high class place in Montreal where all the dress manufacturing people go and relax. So I got the evening off and we went out to have dinner. He told me, hey, I got something fantastic to tell you. He said, I am affiliated with people that speak with the spirits of the dead.
How would you like to talk to the spirit of your dead mother? And I was shocked. I was shocked. He said, you wouldn't be afraid of talking to the spirit of your dead mother, would you?
Well, I said, I'll tell you what, I would have to give that some thought because it's something I never thought about before in my life. Most of us probably haven't, a little afraid of something like that. Well, he says, you know, it's written all over your face.
You're afraid of going to a seance. But he says, I know you. He says, you're going to come.
And then he started to tell me how brave I was when I was aboard ship, you know, different things. He says, you're not the same man. You're changed. You're chicken.
That's all I needed to hear. I said, when do we go to a séance? So one Saturday evening, we were in La Place. It was the very first time, very beautiful place, a medium. There was a lady.
She had a gorgeous new home in Montreal. And there were about 20 invited guests there, which I was one of them. And she communicated with the spirits for different people there. And telling them what the spirits said.
And then there was one lady that had been talking almost continually before the seance started and she didn't believe in the dead appearing and all of this and all that and she said, well I would have to see my dead sister, she says, to believe it. So while this seance was going, one man said, I would like to talk to my friend that died six months ago. But I don't want him to appear. I just want to talk to him.
Because he says, I don't trust you talking to my friend for me. So the million says, let me inquire of the spirit. Yeah, the spirit will talk with you.
And that big masculine voice was heard in the place. It says, hi Frank. It's nice of you to ask for me to talk with you.
And they had a little chat. And after it was over, Frank says, this is the greatest thing honored, to be able to talk with the spirits of the dead. Then, the medium said, we have a very special surprise tonight for you people. A spirit will manifest itself openly here in a few minutes.
And it's like a big gust of wind hit the building and right through the wall. The lights weren't terribly bright, but they were like living room lights. A couple of floor lamps and maybe some of these. And that translucent.
Being seemed to come right out of the wall. How did you feel right at that moment? It's almost like my heart stopped a little bit. You know, very weird feeling. So it was a lady in a beautiful evening gown, soaring, and she said, said to Mary, my dear sister, you are so wonderful to have asked for me.
And Mary fainted and fell right off her chair on the floor. And a couple of guys jumped up and picked her up and she was gone. And that was the beginning of it. That's how you got into it. Yeah, that's the way I got into it.
After a while, you see, there's something interesting about the human mind. You can adjust an awful lot of stuff. You can adjust to a lot of things that you, that would... Terrify you to begin with, after a while they become common and ordinary. So you mean contact with the supernatural can become commonplace and ordinary and doesn't bother anybody?
Yeah. In other words, the more that you do it, you're not uncomfortable. That's right.
It's just not an uneasy feeling. Yeah. So how did you feel about it?
Then I got into a secret society. that worship the spirits, you see. Okay, now how is that different from the seance, Roger?
It happens that the seance are not involving in many ways. But when you get into a secret society of spirit worshipers, then, and especially when you're invited there by the direction of the higher-ups in the spirit world, you never get out of there alive. And this is exactly what my friend and I were up against. We didn't know anything about it. And there was a very, very popular big band leader.
Jazz musician. Jazz band. Very famous. Played a lot in Montreal, Canada, Vancouver, the big cities.
And one night we went to one of these séances and he was with his wife. Now the spirits had told him what to do. The spirits told him, there's two of these guys, give the names.
And your wife will want to talk to the medium when you say that you want to go home because you're tired. As soon as you see that these guys are starting to want to leave, then leave with them at the same time. And as you get outdoors, you ask them if they're driving. They'll say, no, they're going to take the tramway a couple blocks away. Well, you invite them to get in your car with you and that you will take them to a fancy restaurant.
and treat them to some good food and talk about the merchant navy. And that's what the guy did. And there we were in this plush restaurant, pulled into a little alley, and I can still see it like it was yesterday. There's enough room to pass the car, back alley, that I happened to give on a restaurant that was on St. Catharines Street, which is the main street of Montreal.
And that was quite an evening. So, Roger, you're at this restaurant. What happened? Well, after we were seated, entering there, the place was just full, packed tight.
There was a couple of tables against a wall that had a reservation sign on it. And the owner of the place recognized... the band leader and came and said good evening and you gentlemen want a table so you're one of the reserve people so we sat there and we had our favorite alcoholic beverages you know and as we talk The band leader says, how long have you fellas been involved with sorcery?
And he choked us a little bit, and I said, exactly what do you mean? Well, he said, you know, what you people are doing, talking to the supposed spirits of the dead. He says, this is, this is, this is silly. And this man had been at the seance with you. Yeah.
Oh yeah. And he's telling you that it's silly what you've just done. See, my wife, he says, goes to the seances because she gets comfort.
And she gets something good out of it, good feeling out of it. And she lives for what the spirits are going to say that the future is going to be like. To me, it's as if I can't bother with this stuff.
He says, I want power, I go right to the source of power. And he says, how do you think that I became famous the way that I am? I said, you must have had some good luck.
He says, there's no such thing as good luck. He says, there's either some power working for you somewhere, or you don't get ahead in this world. Not in my type of occupation.
So it went from there. We got talking about spirit worship. Did it intrigue you? Or did it make you want to find out more about what exactly he was talking about? Yeah.
So, he said the supposed spirits of the dead that you're talking with are demon spirits. They're fallen angels. They're beautiful beings. Just set it out, just like that? Oh yeah.
It didn't make you uneasy when he said they were just human? Well, to a charge. You know, something that you first hear mentioned to you.
You said you guys have got a great future ahead of you. Because we've been told, the high priest of our society, secret society, has been told that the master has very special plans for you two. Now, what did he mean by the master?
Satan. And we were interested to hear more about it. And he told us, he says, look, we worship spirits. We worship Lucifer and all his angels. They're just as beautiful as they did before they were cast out of heaven.
He says there was a misunderstanding in the whole thing, he says, among the inhabitants of the galaxies. And he says our master was misunderstood, and God did not... bear with him like he does with people that make mistakes today.
So we're in a warfare, good against evil. And we happen to be the evil ones, but we're not that bad. He says, I look at this business between the forces of good and evil, he says, you believe in, one person believes in God, and everyone believes in Lucifer. It's like politics.
So the great controversy is real and you heard someone talk about it that's on the other side. And to these people, they are sold to the fact that Christ will not return to this planet with power and great glory. He's going to abdicate all claims to the planet because the high priest once said that Christ will abdicate all claim to the planet because he knows that it is lawfully and rightfully Satan's.
And at that time he says, Lucifer, you mentioned Lucifer a lot of times, but he mentioned Satan also. He says, the master, usually they like to talk about the master, the master will resurrect his people from the grave. Now George is telling you all this or the high priest? George. George.
Okay, when the evening wound down and you're putting a cap on all that, you guys had consumed some alcohol. Yeah. And you, did you feel like that there was kind of a one-shot deal, you didn't know if it ever happened again? What happened after that? Well, he said, now I said, listen guys, he said, I like to have you as, meet some of our people.
What about next week, Wednesday evening? I'll pick you up at your place and you're invited to one of our services. Services?
Like a church service? Yeah, something similar to that. It's testimonial to the spirits, how the spirits have blessed your life. So when we left there I said to myself, this guy is half drunk.
I'm not going to hear from him again. But it was true that Wednesday night came, he was there with his big Lincoln, step in and we went to one of the most beautiful area of Montreal. And the place was a mansion.
A mansion is usually very large, we call this a small mansion. It was beautiful, most beautiful place. Roger, your friend George took you and Roland to this mansion where people worshipped the demons.
What was it like there? What kind of people were there? Well, it was a big surprise for me as I kind of made up my mind and idea that they were going to be rough looking characters.
But as we entered the place, I was amazed to see that they were all very well dressed. well-mannered, and that a lot of the people, as we were being introduced to people, were professionals, doctors, attorneys, a lot of business people. And see what they had, they had a praise.
session to the gods which is the spirit counselors which are in charge of legions of spirits of demon spirits and they talk about what the the Lord of their lives has done for them because they call on particular spirits like the God in a hashtag which you read in second King about the Israelites worship the golden serpent that Moses had made? Well, behind the spirit worship, behind that, they were worshiping the serpent. They were actually worshiping this spirit, Nehashtah. And the same spirit, Nehashtah, the priest was telling us that the medical doctor that was telling us how he was making the operation.
that had never been made before because people had to be awake and have no feeling. He was able to carry on surgeries that had not been done before. But the spirits would give that capacity to be able to... operate without people feeling any pain and things.
And also without no problem with the blood because as he would cut his incision because the incision everything opened with no blood running. So he could do the work that has not been done before. Now I recall reading in your book that at this praise worship service they had, they would sing hymns. Why would they sing hymns in a demon worship? Yeah, this was kind of a big surprise to me when that took place.
The priest said, hey let's go down to the worship room of the gods and have a praise session, a singing session. So we go down there, and what do you think they pass around? Church and mills. You know, Christian church and mills.
And I couldn't believe this. I said, what's his business? So the priest says, well, now, he says, for those of you that are new, let me tell you that this is the most... Feasible ways to please the spirits is to deride Christ and his people, you know, and his church and all that.
So they sing out of Christian hymnals. They didn't sing Christian words to the hymns, however. Well, they changed a lot of them.
It's a form of blasphemy. Such as you see today in the rock music. world you see the entertainers they have these crosses, the ladies got earrings, crosses, the guys got crosses. This is a form of blessing, a form of deriding Christ, you see, spirits cause the people to do that, to find pleasure in wearing this type of emblem, which is the cross, the emblem of the crucifixion of Christ to the Christians. So what were your impressions the first time you went down into that worship room?
Well, it was, we'd been there maybe a half a dozen times, and the high priest He told us after the meeting, he wanted to talk to us, my friend and I. So after most people had left, he says, The Master of my life has revealed to me that it is time for you people to become acquainted with the Worship Room of the Gods. Well, we started to move toward a beautiful grand staircase. Beautiful.
The banister was huge, it was massive. And the iron, wrought iron work that they had done in it was super. The beautiful decorations on the walls, the chandelier on the first landing.
It was the first landing about... You go down about eight or ten steps, and then you had the first landing. It was huge and beautiful.
The light arrangement was the nicest I had ever seen in my life. When we got into this sanctuary area, it wasn't very brightly lit. Everything was magnified, the beauty of certain things.
A lot of the things were gold-plated or gold-trimmed. The little altars where they had the spirits that had materialized, they photographed them and then they had paintings made of them. And there was probably about maybe a hundred of those around the place. Yeah, and underneath there was a little altar where you have incense and things that they would use in their prayer sessions and things like that, devotions to certain spirits. And some of the objects in there, the priest said, were solid gold.
It was a unique experience to see that. So how did you feel when you walked into that room? I felt that these people had power and they had a lot of it. Did that attract you? Yes and no.
You had mixed feelings about it? I had mixed feelings about it, yeah. Because to a certain extent things looked so good and sounded so good to us. But you see, I'd been brought up in a Christian home where my parents had told us we were eight children in the family, and especially the older ones, you know. My dad says, well, you know, if you get involved in wrongdoing, you're going to have to pay the price.
There's always a cost for everything in this world. So this thought kept creeping into my mind. Just how far you...
Go with these spirits before we start paying the price. See? So it made you just a little bit nervous. Oh, yes. But yet you kept going back.
Oh, there was no way out. Because that we were told. You knew at that time. So you were moving forward more on fear. More on fear, yes.
Because the high priest said that the Master had special plans for us in our lives. And that no one ever went into this. society unless they were invited by the spirits. So that was made very clear.
And he also expressed to us the danger, explained to us the danger of going against the will of the spirits. And he mentioned about this one man and his wife that live in a fireproof building in Montreal. The place burned right down with him in it.
He was one of their members that had decided that, well, he wanted to think things over. He was not going to get initiated at a time that the spirit said he would like him to be initiated into the society. So in reality, Roger, you were chosen by high-powered demon spirits to be a part of their human special privileged group. You see, these people in Montreal, the society, like the priest mentioned, there's thousands of spirit worshipers in Onitsa. different societies of spiritual worshipers in this world.
But he says, we are the elite. We know the real truth about the Master and his angels. And they are not hideous looking beings.
They are gorgeous creatures. And from the paintings that they had on the walls of that worship room, they were unique beings. Especially there was a painting full, you know, full size, full length painting of...
the fallen Lucifer above his altar. And that was very fascinating because he looked like a man of great intellect, high forehead. The way that he looked with his eyes, the way he had the eyes looking. It gave you a depth of perception of somebody that is very, very knowledgeable and powerful.
So Roger, this high priest that you talked about, He is the one that ushered you down into the worship room. Was he also the one that led out in the praise sessions that you talked about? Yes, and he had an assistant also, another priest. Okay.
Now, when you would go to these praise sessions, what kinds of things... happened at those sessions? Well, there's a lot of success stories. Positive mental attitude kind of things?
Well, yes, a lot of success stories. The masters has done this for me and that for me. I remember one lumber dealer he had like half a dozen different operations around the Quebec and everything that he touched seemed to turn to money.
And he was telling about it. And then there's this other person that was the Claire Voyant that... Would work only for the wealthy people.
Only for the super wealthy. He says, I have the know-how, they have the means, let them pay. So he advised in business transactions. They would come to him and say, listen, I look at this deal that I might get, you know, this factory or whatever it is, because this guy was, this person was interested in industrial real estate, see.
And he would talk to the spirit and then... And the spirit was audible to him. You could hear the spirit talk to him, but the man did not hear.
So the spirit was telling the clairvoyant what, well, he called himself an astrologer. reading the moons and the stars and you know now what was the term you used for his title this man yeah oh clairvoyant everyone yes and it was interesting this person stood up and says a I had a nice little experience last week and he says the Masters says did they carry you This lady and her husband brought him, this astrologer, a bundle of money. They said, this is the deal that you...
And he works only on percentages. Only on percentages. He doesn't work for set amounts of money. Only percentages of what the people are going to make. So he said, they brought me a substantial amount of money.
And they were very happy with it. And I thought it was very reasonable. But then, my guide... Spirit says ask Then when they're going to give you the other $1,700 that is really yours, and he says to the folks, I would like to know now before we leave here, when will you have the $1,700 to give me that makes up my part of, you know, rightful part of the deal? wife fainted and the husband says we'll have the money for you in 24 hours so that was this type of priests so he was thinking the demons for helping him to know that oh yeah even spirit is young at what point did this demon worship start to affect you personally Roger Well, it wasn't too long that the priest mentioned to us that the time had arrived for us to start trusting the spirits and give the spirits a chance to work for us.
And there was a number of gifts that you could choose from. You see? And... I used to play the horses some.
Not knowledgeable at all. I used to go to those bookies, you know, play the horses so often. But I said, hey, I would like to be able for the spirit to instruct me on the numbers and the name of the horses that's going to win, you know, at Belmont or some other racetracks like that. Make myself a little money.
The priest says, it'll be given you. And sure enough, one night, I fell into a trance or dreamed a thing. I don't know exactly what happened, but I saw three races that were really going to pay big.
And these horses were dummies, so to speak. You know what I mean? They were not really good horses.
They were like, one horse paid 21 to 1 because he was that poor, right? The chance of winning was so poor that he paid 21 to 1 on them. And it showed me, I saw the board, the bouquet, and the number on it. And I went there and they said it was going to be on Saturday.
That was like on Wednesday, a few days later, it was Saturday. I went there, and sure enough, there they were on the boards. I went to the wicket and handed some money and got myself... a winner.
Now I said, well, I'm a little crazy. I ought to put more money on there. So I, I, I put $20 onto the next horse and that'd be 21 to one. So, you know, I, left there with maybe four or five hundred dollars in my hands.
And I started to do that. In this case, I went directly down to the finest men's shop on St. Catherine Street and bought myself a two hundred dollar suit. And in 1946, a two hundred dollar suit was...
In 1946, people used to work at the RCA Victor, where I had worked before I went to the Navy for eighteen dollars a week. And the good earners were seventy-five to fifty-seven $75 per week, you know, for labor. So the demon spirits looked on you so favorably, they began to help you win in your gambling.
Then I went to other bookies, you see. And one day, I am told of the man at the cage, where you do your bet, he says, my boss would like to talk to you. And he said, you go right through that door over there. Oh, sure.
So I know the guy says, come on in. The guy is sitting behind a big desk, smoking the big cigar. So he says, you're Roger.
I says, yeah. He got up and walked around me. He said, you don't look that smart.
I said, what, sir? You don't look that smart. He says that you could pick horses that are winners. When they're supposed to be losers, where do you get your help? What do you mean help?
I'm not getting any help. I just happen to go and... Oh, no. We've been watching you here, he says, for a number of weeks.
And you always leave here with some of our good money. And I tell you, buddy, if you want a list of all the bookies in Montreal, I'll give you a list of them. But he says, I want you out of here and don't show up again because somebody's going to put a, you know what I mean. I said, okay, sir, I won't be back again. It's a tough business to be in there, gambling.
So even with the Spirit's help, it was tough. Yeah. Well, it's stuff that's going to shoot you, yes. The high priest would say a number of things to you when you were in these praise services, and you went to a number of them over a period of time.
He talked about the issues of the great conflict. You've already touched on that a little bit. I want you to follow up on that a little bit more, Roger. Some of the things that you wrote in your book, Trip into the Supernatural, sounds a whole lot like what we as Christians today know as the great controversy. What were some of the things that he told you there?
Well, he says that there is a great controversy going on between the force of good and evil, between Christ and Satan. And they always praise the great master, Satan, as a super intelligent being that he is. Beautiful to behold. And if he ever appears to you, you won't be able to look upon him because he'll be too bright.
He'll just ruin your vision. The high priest said he was in Chicago. And the Spirit appeared to him and said, Morneau and his buddy, George, has invited them to the service. And the fellow that is in charge, while you're away, he'll be able to see you. He says that he's going to wreck all the work that the spirits have done for the last few years to get these people into the society.
So the high priest, which is in Chicago, picks up the phone and calls, and the spirit appeared to him, and he said it was the angel of hope. right that he could not look upon it upon him and he says after he picked up the phone to dial he couldn't dial the phone because of the fact that his vision was so terribly blurred by the light the beautiful light of the bright being and he asked the zero you know dial zero and the operator came on and he he she had to you know dial for him And they talk about many, many things in regards to, you know, who's going to win this conflict. Any discussion about fire and brimstone? Yes.
It says the Bible people, talking about the Christians, you know, they're reading the Bible that, you know, we're all going to land in a lake, a lake of fire and this and that. That's baloney. He says the conflict is going to end peacefully.
Christ is going to realize that you might as well abdicate the rights of this planet, take his few people along with him to his planet in the center of the galaxies, and we will be left with a master who will resurrect all his people. That will be as numerous as the sand of the sea. And the master will rule forever and ever and ever.
A happy people. And he named some of the people that were going to be there. I want to mention the names because they're known to history. So that was quite impressive.
Did you always feel, Roger, that these people were telling the truth? Oh yes, yeah. They really had things down straight.
But I was not satisfied with the answers. And I was getting, I was, there was something, and I understand now, it was the Spirit of God saying, hold back, fellow. Hold back.
And the priest had talked about us thinking seriously about being initiated into the cult. Right, so they let you come to sort of take a look, see, but you can't go back for several months. Oh yeah, it's not a matter of whether you're going to be initiated or not. It's when.
You see? So they begin to press you for a commitment. So the priest said, look, fellows, I'm not going to pressure you into anything, okay?
What I want to show you... what the spirits can do for a devoted servant. We went downstairs, not through the staircase that I talked, the worship room of the gods, but at the other end of the building. Went downstairs, and a number of times I'd gone there to the men's room and I heard these typewriters, clicking like the dickens, man is going. I said, why do we have a lot of people typing in there, in that room?
Well, we went there, that Eve Dickens, and he knocked and the man says, come on in. And there was all those typewriters moving along by themselves, typing at the speed that I'd never seen before. And not only that, the high priest says, I want to show you something clever. So he says, follow me.
So we went around the table. That was like two long tables, and they had about ten typewriters. And he says, now notice that the typewriter types to the right, then doesn't go back.
It types back to the left. Isn't that something? I had never heard of things like this before.
He said, the spirits are doing the work. And he introduced us to the man. And the man is a lawyer.
And he said, how much money did you make last year? Oh, he says, send us six figures. See? So, this lawyer had a business in the building that housed the worship room.
And he had a whole room full of typewriters. And he put paper in there and demons typed. That's all he did.
Put paper in there. And what came out? What was it that came out? Different briefs for court cases.
And so he would sell these to people? Oh, yeah. He had this service to the legal profession. And the high priest was showing...
The United States and Canada. So the high priest was showing you this to give you an idea about the kinds of blessings that you would receive? Yeah. But after you left that typewriter, the room where the lawyer was, they tried to draw you into a commitment by getting you to make a public profession. Tell us about that.
Well, they have a super beautiful... in the Laurentian Mountains, which is north of Montreal, north of Saint Agathe. Saint Agathe is a famous name there in Montreal, Montrealers, because they all go to Saint Agathe or north there, you know, to the summer home and so they had a big big resort up there for their people, you know, supposed to close society. And they had on October the 30th, Halloween, is that? October 31st.
31st, the last day of October. They had what they call live animal sacrifices. I don't know what it is.
We could never find out. By the time that the Lord pulled me out of there, I had not yet found out what it was. So you have this intrigue involved in there.
And he talked about three very unique services that I attended there that sit on my mind forever. One was entitled Christian Idolatry. Another one was entitled The Super Deception of a Glorious New Age. which actually applies to the New Age today.
And this was 1946 that we're talking. And then the other one was Satan's Great General Council of the 1700s. And I must say the things that I heard there.
was an eye-opener. First of all, we'll go through the Great General Council. At the beginning of the 1700s, said the high priest, Satan and all his spirit counselors held a Great General Council. with one purpose in mind.
It was to prepare for the great industrial age that was soon to break upon the world. And Lucifer also foresaw another age that was to follow that, where... tremendous scientific discoveries would be made by people and we would enter a unique age that would change the way that everybody lives. It would also serve to usher in the end times and the close of the great controversy between the forces of good and evil. And the priest said that Lucifer had been studying the Bible.
And he found in Daniel 12, 4, where we are told about the time of the end, many shall run to and fro, knowledge shall be increased. He understood it. to be that we're getting to that point. And you had, with all the spirit counselors, to change their modes of operation in order to ensnare people.
And devise a way whereby people would would disqualify themselves from being members of Christ's kingdom. And he was just very candid about this. Oh, yeah. Telling you and the rest of the group, 60 or 70 people there, the plans that Lucifer had revealed to him.
And by the time the council came to a close, they had three major policies that were going to be followed. First... They were to see to it that humans would be made to believe that Satan and his angels do not really exist. Because up to that time, you could walk down a street of Paris, and you would have signs that would say where you have a soothsayer, or a fortune teller of some type, and if you want to put a curse on someone, you could go and see this other old lady over there, you know, the old witch, that's the way it goes. But now it had to change.
Lucifer says, we have to make a change. ...make sure that people, humans, get to believe that Satan and his angels do not really exist. You know, Roger, that's interesting because a recent research study report that I read indicated that in a national survey, I believe it's over 75% of people do not really believe in a real tangible devil.
But there is one. Oh, yeah. Now, the next thing, the three-part policy that they had adopted there, the second one was... To find a way of being able to get total control of people's minds. And that would be done...
by taking hypnotism out of the realm of the occult and introduce it as a new science for the benefit of mankind. So part of what the high priest told you was Satan's strategy to take total control of people's minds. They felt that by taking hypnotism out of the realm of the occult and introducing it as a new science for the benefit of mankind. They could then use people of great renown, educators, people of capacity, that would do great things such as supposedly regress people in time to former lives that they had. And of course, after the session is over, the person would not.
know a thing about ancient history. And the person that she's talked, she already has talked about performing, you know, certain deeds, we'll say, 3,000, 4,000 years ago. But this was their strategy.
Now, what this would... do for it, the thing is this, that it would create in the minds of the general public, solidly set in the mind of the general public, an unwavering trust in that great deception. In other words, people could, you know, they would believe it. This person was hypnotized, was regressing time to, you know, former lives, and did this and did that, and no deception.
Maybe Alexander the Great, we'll see, you know. some of the generals and people like that. And the person after the session is over, you know, brings out, comes out of hypnotism and he or she doesn't know what she's talking about. So, now this would be a way of this Christian, of de-Christianizing the Western world through the avenue of mysticism.
Now the time came when, Lucifer decided that he had to choose a person to initiate this thing. And Franz Mesmer, which was an Austrian physician, was chosen. The priest told you all of this?
Oh yeah, because he was most capable. Mesmer originated a theory called Animal Magnetism, later on named Mesmerism. Mesmer was led by the spirits to believe, this is what the priest said, was led by the spirits to believe that certain persons have a magnetic influence within themselves, so to speak, that would cause them to have great power over other persons, even to the point of placing them into a trance. And at that time, that was readily accepted by people in general at the time that Mesmer lived. So people realized, you know, that some people got the capacity to put you into a trance.
Now, by the time that he died in 1815, A lot of the physicians in Europe were using hypnotism as a means of anesthesia. Now, hypnotism is the same as mesmerism? That's right. So, mesmerism has been developed to a higher degree of refinement. And the priest went on saying that he, the plane of Satan, To deceive the human family this way, he says, is the most intriguing thing to his mind.
And he went on saying how it was going to be brought about. He said that a fellow by the name of Darwin and another fellow by the name of Thomas Henry Huxley would be used by the spirits because In their childhood, they had been hypnotized by medical doctors. And they figured that...
They would be real good subjects to lead the people into this belief that they had, that Satan wanted to bring into people's lives. Now, what were those three points again, Roger? The three things were... Number one, that they did not want Satan, Satan did not want the human family to think that he or his angels existed.
Right. The second point that you made had to do with taking control of people's minds. That's right. The third point was what? Was to destroy the Bible without burning it.
Okay. See. And what was his strategy on that?
On that, it was very interesting. Because after the great general council, It was decided that Satan would tutor Charles Darwin personally in setting up the... the principles of his theories of evolution.
He was tutored by Lucifer himself, a fallen Lucifer. And at that time, it was understood, Satan and his spirit counselors understood, that if a person was led to believe in the theory of evolution, it would, in his life, destroy completely the creation week of the Bible, the fall of man, and the plan of redemption. It would do away with it. In one fell swoop. Yeah.
Now, he made a unique statement. He said that according to the spirits. Anyone that teaches a theory of evolution is considered to be a minister of a great religious system.
See, they call it the religious system, the theory of evolution, because it is a system of schooling people and getting them to disqualify themselves and being members of Christ's kingdom. And he said that every teacher of that theory is recognized by the spirits. as a person of great value, and receives a very special unction from Satan himself, giving great power to induce spiritual blindness, to convince and convert. Three capacities are given to those teachers of the theory.
Then, that's not all. The priest says that Satan considers the teachers of the theory of evolution to be so valuable to him, that in the sight of all the inhabitants of the galaxies, He assigns a retinue of bright, beautiful angels to follow that educator all the remainder of his life. And that in the sight of the inhabitants of the galaxies is the greatest honor that he can bestow upon his workers, upon mankind, until the controversy is finished. That was quite enlightening. Now the high priest...
Was talking just sort of like a preacher would talk up front? Was he enthusiastic? Did he seem like he had bought into this and was excited about it? Oh yeah, he believed it 100%.
No question about it. Why? Why would he be so excited about spirits trying to deceive human beings?
Because obviously out of this Council of the 1700s, deception was a major part of the strategy. Why? What he says is deception.
It's like politics. You believe in one candidate, the other person believes in the other candidate. They're fighting to get the position. It doesn't matter who's going to be the smartest. With Lucifer, the fallen child of him, he's very smart.
He's going to win and Christ is going to abdicate the rights of the planet. He's going to resurrect his people, have established his kingdom that lasts forever and ever. God won't be able to destroy him because it would destroy him. be against God's, the Creator's nature to destroy Lucifer in the fire.
Besides that, he said, spirits now, human spirits, they have the capacity now to outlive fire. He says, you don't believe it? Go to India or some of those countries where they have fire walkers.
And it's done by the power of the human spirit. These people are energized by human spirit so they can't walk on those hot coals without burning themselves. And this is what the high priest said.
He says, if you want to use fire, you can use it. It's not going to burn anybody. So that's the way they believe.
So this high priest was almost talking to your group in an evangelistic fervor. Oh, yeah, because he figures that he's going to be one of the higher-ups in the great kingdom. Okay. Now, of the group that was there that night, 60, 70 people I think you've mentioned before.
Yeah, very. How many of those were people who were hardcore members, and how many of them were new? inductees.
We were the only two youngsters there so to speak. You and your friend. How old were you at that time Roger? I was about 20. 20 years old?
Yeah. Did you have a feeling of awe over the fact that you had been chosen? Yes, in a way. And then I got thinking about this. When am I going to have to pay the price?
The cost? My parents had brought me up like this. If you get involved with evil, you're going to reap what you sow.
So you want to be upright in life. And if you associate with evildoers, they'll probably land you in jail or somewhere else that you wouldn't want to be. So there's always a price to be paid.
So you had that little something maybe instilled by your mother and father a long time ago that kept you from making that full commitment. Now, one of the things that really amazed me and shocked me and made me sick at heart. It's when the priests talk about Christian idolatry.
What is Christian idolatry? The priest mentioned that word. Tell us what he said, Roger. He said that Christian idolatry is the most grandiose or great deception that has ever been brought upon the human family, upon mankind. And he boasted that demon spirits are continually...
defiling Christian churches through the avenue of necromancy by using a form of spirit worship that involves hundreds of millions of Christians into idolatry without their being aware of it. Now what is necromancy? Describe or define necromancy for me. Their belief, popular belief of necromancy is to conjure the spirits of the dead.
So you can speak with someone who has died. The seance that you originally went to was the practice of necromancy. Now, the priest says that this super-deception is brought about in only one way.
Through the deceptive belief that man has an immortal soul that lives on after death. And he said that constitutes idolatry through necromancy. So he says there are hundreds of millions of Christians that are practicing idolatry. They are glorifying God. See?
Because they believe that the soul is immortal. They may not be talking to the supposed spirits of the dead. Oh, yeah. Contrary to popular belief, necromancy does not consist of conjuring the spirits of the dead.
The reason being that man is totally mortal and does not possess an immortal soul. And so, he is immortal. He says, the friendly demon spirits that have always found over the centuries great delight in impersonating and apparitions, departed loved ones, and persons of great renown. Now, friendly demon spirits. Friendly demon spirits.
Are there more than one kind of demon spirits, Roger? Well, there's three main divisions, and then there's divisions within those divisions. You have the friendly demon spirits. that seem to have their finesse and their refinement, and they're not upset about what happened when they were thrown out of heaven, from what I gather. Then you have the warriors.
They like to bring misery and destruction to the lives of people. Then you have the oppressors. The oppressors are the real, wicked spirits that hate God with all of their, the Creator, with all of their might. So, he went on explaining, he says, now, necromancy is in reality a belief, a religious belief. People believe that the dead have entered into a higher state of existence than they had when they were alive.
Also that they are in a position and have the capacity to help the living here on earth. See? Then he said, this is where things get really interesting.
He said, according to the great master, a person does not have to supposedly call upon the spirits of the dead to receive help, you see, to be involved in the necromancy. All he needs to do is to believe in life after death. Because he said, necromancy is the belief that man is a human being, is an immortal soul. So anybody that believes that man has an immortal soul is involved in necromancy. It's that simple.
That's the way he explained it. So how does that constitute idolatry? By people believing that they are either talking to the saints, See, the spirits of the dead, dead saints, or a dead relative, or a dead person of some type. And you take, for instance, like Loretta Lynn.
She owes, she says on national television, and I have the data on it, I heard it myself, she said that she was made successful in her... Singing career by a dear friend of hers, it was the same age as she, and died when she was 18 years of age. And Loretta was trying to get into the singing world, you know, but it would, she says, I had no success at all until one night I was sitting in bed reading a book. And she says, who walks right through the wall but my friend, the spirit of my friend.
And she says, Loretta, I'm going to make you a very famous person in singing western country music. music and I will be with you all the time. Trust me.
And she says she had a big concert once and she was coming down with this bad cold and she thought that her voice was going to give. She talked to her spirit and felt. felt that she was going to be helped. And she got on the stage and she started to sing and right in the middle of where she really needed the power, no power at all, and her spirit friend tapped her on the shoulder and started to sing for her. She said, her voice went through me, the power.
And you saw this in a television documentary? Yeah. That was, I believe, 1976 it took place. Now, the priest explained that when people believe in this business, they are actually opening themselves to be completely deceived by demon spirits, because it gives the demon spirits an opportunity to impersonate the dead.
And for people to believe their lives. And the priest says that thrills the... First of all, it brings the great master the respect and the reverence that is due to his great name.
And it makes all the other spirits exceedingly happy because they are the ones that have worked to lead people to believe in life after death. And they rejoice. And that's the extent of what Christian idolatry is all about. Friendly spirits, just to digress for just a moment, you mentioned three different categories, and the friendly spirits are the ones that love to impersonate, of being a historian. or something.
We specialize in that. In your experiences in the praise services or in the worship room or the other places where you were, any of the places you were, did you ever witness an event where next to you necromancy or even something that would be popularly called channeling today took place, where you actually heard the voice of someone in response to someone's questions. Yeah, a number of times, but there was one time in particular that fascinated me because it was unique in one way. The priest told us that there was a French historian that was affiliated with Montreal, University of Montreal, which is a French university.
and the English university is McGill. So the University of Montreal is the French university. And this man was from Paris, but he's affiliated with the university. And he wanted to have some details in regards to Napoleon Bonaparte and one of his generals.
So, by the way, there are also in other parts of the world, elite spirit worshippers like the group that we had in Montreal. And he mentioned there that, he said, you guys are fortunate when my friend and I... because you're right in time to see something very interesting.
My friend there is having his devotions in the worship room of the gods, and he will use a trance medium to converse. with certain demon spirits that will inform him in regards to ancient history by Napoleon. Sure enough we went down there and somebody came up and said he's ready to for the the session and we went on there and he said you would need three people. You would need three people but he wanted five people.
that volunteer to be the channel for the spirit. So three of them were chosen there. And the others went back and sat down. And the man shook his head a little bit like this.
His eyes went glazed. And he stayed like that for a half hour. And the spirit spoke to him. He said, I'm a spirit counselor. And what would you like to know?
And he had a clipboard, the historian, and asked him some questions. The historian was from Paris. Yeah. And he was wanting information...
Some detailed information......about Napoleon's......Napoleon Bonaparte and one of his generals. And so he asked... the questions of one of these human beings that was channeling oh yeah the voice change and everything the voice changed the person completely okay and it identified itself as a spirit guy a spirit counselor yeah okay a spirit counselor and and then proceeded to tell him all the events that he was asking yes question and there was a certain question that was asked and the spirit counselor said i will have lord remy and lord alphonse Duplicate, in other words, the dialogue that had taken place.
Oh, a little drama. Yeah, and the two other... Men fulfilled what he was looking for.
But the one thing that interests me is the mayor of Montreal, Carmelien Hood. During World War II, at the beginning of the war, he was very controversial when it regards to the war effort. He would tell the French-speaking boys not to go into the armed service.
See? Because you're going to go and shed your blood for the British, you know? And, you know, we're their servants, so to speak, and all that, and you didn't want them to go into war.
And they put him in prison. He was jailed for the length of the war. Now, the main said, I would like to have you tell me to the spirit. to give me part of the speech that was given by Kamalien Hood on the steps of the Montreal City Hall on a certain date.
There are different versions of what has taken place. And you, Lord, would know the exact one. Now, the mayor of Montreal was still alive.
He was still alive. And this historian is asking what was actually said at a speech. Yes. Okay. The spirit counselor said, I'm sorry I can't help you.
All of my activities and my people have to be completed in Europe. However, after my departure, our departure, other spirits will come to help you. And sure enough, the guy vibrated a little bit and he's back and he said, boy, how long? He said, twenty minutes, he uses a channel.
So they, again the spirit entered into him and the spirit said it was me. counselor that could give him the information that he was looking for. So again it was given verbally and it was the voice of Chameleon Hood. Now how did you know that it was the voice? Well because of the fact you see I was a youngster in those days just about ready to go into the army and uh Chameleon we used to listen to the radio. We had no television in those days, it was only radio and read newspaper.
And all the speeches of Camignan made and all of the, was on the radio all the time. In those days they had no tape recorders, as we have now. So they would, Camignan would have to go to the...
the Canadian Broadcasting Studio, where they made a record, a real phonograph record. And then they played it over and over, you know, for the rest of the day. So you listened to those as a teenager before you went into the Army.
So you knew his voice. I knew his voice really good. So I said to George, he was sitting there, and he said, Isn't it amazing? He said, If you think that's amazing.
Wait, he says, until the spirits impersonate one of the departed people that you know personally, like an uncle or a brother or a sister or something like that. He says, that is unique. But that's the way it was.
You are able to reproduce a voice, man, and the...just perfection. The spirits are exceedingly proud of this. Because, and this also was right up my alley, the priest said that as the times on this planet gets more and more difficult, and calamities of all kinds are striking the planet more and more frequently, demon spirits are going to impress people with the importance of Sunday sacredness. Roger, when I was a teenager back in the 1970s, I remember a song that came out talking about the age of Aquarius. Since then, we've seen the development of the New Age.
I wondered if back when you were involved in spirit worship, if they talked about New Age at all? Oh yes, it was a big thing that was coming up. One of the major deceptions of the last days.
And the priest told us, we talked quite a while, and then he said, Then he said, could I have a little bit more of your time? I want to do something very fascinating. He says, the grain plain, the master's grain plain, for harvesting the nations, for harvesting the multitudes of the earth into his cause, just before the close of the great controversy between the forces of good and evil.
So we continued, you know, after we expressed ourselves that we're deeply interested to know more about the activities of spirits. And he said, it's going to be done in a unique manner. This grain plain is going to take people.
people are going to eat the stuff because he says spirits demon spirits They'll declare themselves to be inhabitants of far distant planets in the galaxies that are coming to warn the inhabitants of planet Earth of the impending destruction of the planet unless something seriously... Proper is done to avoid it. And he went on saying that they will claim to have out-of-body experiences. Are you familiar with out-of-body experiences?
I've read about them. In other words, so a person's... there's some persons that are supposed to be able to, you know, they believe in their immortal soul. Astral projection?
Yes, right. Goes in two different parts of the world and sees things and come back and then they write all about it, you know. I've heard of that. Due to the fact that the millions of the earth people believe in people having an immortal soul, it is readily accepted when the spirits will, through a trance medium, converse with influential people.
Now what is a trance medium? It's a channeler today. What is known today as a channeler?
Shirley MacLaine's experience. of getting involved in Spiritism and with the inhabitants, I wasn't having as a far distant plants in the galaxies. I keep the whole thing three hours. And you were hearing the fulfillment of what this High Priest had said 45 years ago. Yeah, exactly.
So, he went on explaining about the fact that the spirits will show themselves willing to give valuable guidance. that will not only help people avoid the destruction of the planet but it would cause it to enter into a higher state of existence for instance he said the spirits will promise and this is a big word promise that if their recommendations are followed carefully they will usher in a glorious new age of peace and prosperity and there there will be um Well, there'll be no more wars, you see. There'll be no more famines.
There'll be no more people getting unhappy with one another. Neighbors will love neighbor. And social unrest will not take place no more.
It'll be... Perfect happiness for a thousand years. That's what the Spirit is going to promise. Almost like the Garden of Eden created all over again.
And now we find that a lot of preachers are preaching the great age of... glorious new age of victory. victory victory over war victory over social unrest victory over famines and victory over all kinds of and he used the words new age to describe what was coming it would be a glorious new age and uh...
this is exactly what the movement is all about today and he went on and said as i said earlier that as life on this planet becomes more and more difficult and Calamities will strike the planet more and more frequently. The spirits at that time are going to put all their effort to impress religious leaders, to bring before the masses of the earth the sacredness of Sunday. See, he will teach Sunday sacredness. And with the religious leaders looking forward to a thousand years of perfect peace on earth, they will put all their effort into it. Then laws will be passed by governments.
Yeah, one person asked, what's going to happen about people that don't believe in the Spirit's recommendation? The priest says, that's no problem at all. Laws will be passed by governments that will force people to go along with it, regardless of whether they believe it or not.
And, he says, the law enforcement officers will explain to people, make it clear, that such a law is necessary to assure the well-being of all people. He says, the laws will be passed. No effort at all.
And then he went on and he said about the fact that the venerable day of the sun, which in ages past was such an irritant to the Creator. all these great nations and other nations of smaller ones were all involved in sun worship. And in those centuries the Creator found that teaching of worship of the sun to be terrible irritant and he said it is going again to take place but not in worshiping the sun.
in remembering Sunday to keep it holy. He made a statement I will never forget. He says, By the observance of the day upon which the Master, Satan, has placed the unction of his authority and power, he receives homage, regardless of whom people claim to worship. Isn't that something?
So, can you understand now why I had 28 Bible studies in one week and started to go to church on Sabbath? And I never missed since until I began to get sick. The issue of a day of worship came up in that meeting.
Was Sunday the only day mentioned? Well, you see, the priest mentioned, yes, about the fact Satan has chosen Sunday as his day. The Creator has chosen the seventh day of the week.
Lucifer has chosen to call his day the first day of the week, Sunday. And regardless of what people claim to worship, worshiping God, the Creator, that day, that particular day, we are bringing homage and respect. Now at that time in your life, you were 20 years old or so, had you ever heard of a Seventh-day Adventist?
Never in my life. In that meeting... They didn't talk about Seventh-day Adventist.
They talked strictly about Adventist. But the word Adventist was mentioned. The priest was telling us that necromancy, as I mentioned earlier, is the belief that the dead have entered into a higher state of existence etc.
And he says for centuries, friendly human spirits have worked diligently to establish and uphold in the religious convictions of all people the belief that man has an immortal soul. Then he boasted about the fact that the Master was so smart, and that he had deceived the whole world, even in this age of great scientific knowledge and understanding. Then one person put his hand up and died.
Priest says, yes, you want to say something? He says, what about the Adventists? You can't count them deceived regarding the state of the dead.
And I got a question. What about, how come they can be brought under the great deception? The priest said, you're right. I apologize, I made a mistake.
When I said that all the millions of people living on the face of this planet, everybody, you know, was honoring the great master, I forgot the Adventist. There's so few in number, when you figure the billions and all people, I didn't even think of mentioning him. So I'm sorry.
Then he says, secondly, the reason why they can't be brought under the great deception, Let me explain about it. Now you said my next statement is going to upset some of you. But what I'm telling you is the honest truth. It is factual. It's reality.
The fact that the Adventists observed the biblical Sabbath of creation and reverence the Creator on that day, it makes it impossible for the spirits to deceive them. They are given very special help and great spiritual insight. And he said, under these conditions, they are not ordinary people. And that stayed with me, man.
Just like this. And when I heard the word Adventist, when Cyril told me later on, which we're going to cover later, I asked him, I said, where did non-Michigan belong to? He said, I'm a Seventh Adventist.
What is that again? He said, I'm a Seventh Adventist. I said, is that the same thing as Adventist?
Oh yeah, because a lot of people call us the Adventists. They don't talk about the Seventh Age. Same thing.
Boy, I was interested. I bet you were. Now, I wanted to know what his Bible said.
Yeah, I bet you did. Because that was... the one group that the under question only the high priest of the demonic worship house yeah the thing that he had said to you was this is the one group that can't be deceived that's right and so somewhere back inside that that that resistance you had had mm-hmm came out and you awoke a few months later That experience, unique experience, was instrumental in helping me make a decision for Christ.
And also, I had no hesitation to join myself to God's commandment keeping people, because of the fact that I knew what kind of people they were. And after having had 28 Bible studies in one week, I started to keep the Sabbath, you know, forever. But you see...
The time that I had these Bible studies, four hours per evening, we started at 7 o'clock and finished at 11 o'clock at night. We had this Bible study similar to what you showed me the other day, that you have in your pocket. The Bible studies were about an hour. There were questions, and then you looked at the verses that they gave you in the Bible, and you had your answer. It was so fantastic.
And the Spirit of God was really ministering to me the graces of redemption. moments of all those Bible studies was precious. Precious, precious, precious.
Roger, at that time, your major language was French. You did not speak English, and all of this happened in the French language in Montreal. How long after you became a Seventh-day Adventist, or after you learned of Seventh-day Adventists, did you read the book Great Controversy by Ellen White? Well, I joined the church, I mean, I first had the Bible studies in October of 46. In April of 47, I was baptized into the church.
In October, September of that year, Ildo and I got married. And the French church in Montreal, gave us as a wedding gift the conflict of the ages series. And I had not read the Great Controversy up to that. But then you read it.
Yeah. And what went through your mind when you read the book Great Controversy, thinking back on the experience you'd had maybe just a year or so before. That's right.
What went through your mind? This person is inspired. This person has got knowledge that nobody else has on the face of the earth except, you know, the Spiritist that I was mentioning because it's so unique. Well, I find it very remarkable that they were willing to share the strategy that Satan is working on with this group. Of course, their plan was that it would never get out.
That's right. Under seal of death. That's right.
Their plan is that you don't have to worry about saying anything by the great master. Because as soon as anybody strays some, the spirits will tell the high priest right away it's taking place. They did what my Bible said.
It was Wednesday night. I said it on Monday and Tuesday. By Wednesday night, the spirit counselor appeared to the high priest and says, You have one of your defectors. He says, That mortal guy, you're going to get rid of him. Because he's out there saying the Bible with the Adventist.
the people that the Master hates most on the face of the earth. The high priest almost had a heart attack because he said, I kind of like you. He said, that's what he told my friend.
I didn't see him after that. He told my friend, it makes me to go back to spirit worship. Roger, you were 72 hours away from making a full commitment to the elite spirit worship. How did God rescue you at that strategic moment?
Well, I'll tell you. I should really go back a couple of weeks. weeks in time.
As the high priest had talked to us about the advantage of getting initiated in the society on the 31st of October, that night I came home, went to bed and I couldn't sleep till about 3 o'clock in the morning. Because I had all of this experience of the supernatural that I've gone through for so many months now, and my Catholic upbringing that I've had, you know, and questions about God. Now I knew there's a God, because the Spirit is there.
He made me well aware of that. But I was in a state of terrible unrest. I could not have slept.
And without even giving it a thought, somehow, I said, as I was laying on my bed, I said, if there's a God up there that cares for me, help me.