[Music] Hello everybody. Welcome to Tooth andClaw podcast. Wes is back with us for our subscribers. So we got Wes Larson. He's a bear biologist. Uh he's the man. And we got Mike Smith. You the man. You the man, Jeff. Uh Mike Smith lived six lives in his one life so far. And then I'm Jeff Larson. I'm Wes's little brother. And yeah, we're Tooth andClaw podcast. Thank you all for joining us again. Hey Wes. And new listeners. Thank you. Yeah. What's up? Do you mind just explain to us where you are real quick cuz it seems to me like you're in a chamber that is designed to make your voice echo back into the microphone as much as possible. It is maybe somewhat that. Um, I am in a hotel in Brazil. Jeff said I can't come home still there from Brazil until I'm good. And I just I'm just having a hard time being good, you know. Yeah, I get it. So, it's not the best place to like be on good behavior either. No, it's not. But I'm here for a full month and yeah, I'm in a hotel. My internet was working fine in my room and then as soon as we connected it stopped working. So now I'm in like the weirdest little conference room ever. It's a little echoey, but uh it's as good as I could do. Well, we didn't get you last episode, so now we get W this. Yeah, exactly. Bill's going to have to work his magic when we were together. So, we did a trip out in the Pontanol. Saw a few tapeers and a bunch of jaguars. Beautiful animals. Got real close to them. Got right under a couple of them. A really amazing trip. So, thank you for putting that together. And then you were just like, I'm staying out here. And what have you been up to since we left? Well, the first few days that I was out here on my own, I really wanted to find maed wolves. So, I went to two different spots and found maimed wolves in both of those spots. The first spot I found two of them. It was like way out in the middle of the Pontanol. And then I went to Mina, which is this the state I lived in in Brazil. And uh yeah, Minus. It's not Min. Yeah, close enough. But it's this really old state in Brazil. There's lots of cool like old cities. And I went to this church that's like in the middle of nowhere in the jungle. And the monks at this church have been feeding maed wolves since like 1982. And what happened was like one night a monk saw that their trash had been like flipped over. And so the next night he went out there and he saw the maed wolf eating the trash. It was like causing such a big mess that he figured he would just start feeding it so it didn't flip their trash over. And then they just kept feeding them and feeding them. And now there's like biologists involved and they've collared some of these main wolves and it's just become this big study on a very underststudied animal. And it was a really cool place to see them like in this huge Gothic cathedral in the middle of the jungle in the middle of nowhere Brazil. It was really cool experience. That's sweet and that's awesome. And then I went to Rio and now I'm back in the Pontthanol. Oh, amazing. When's your next trip trip start? Uh, I meet my group in like 3 days. Cool. Yeah. You're just going to hang out until then? I'm just hanging out. I'm going to go float a little river tomorrow. See some fish. Maybe a anaconda if I'm lucky. Been looking at birds. Cool. Yeah. Biologists figured out why main wolves have those neat little socks on. The like the black socks. Yeah. They go all the way up. They're like tube socks all the way up past the knee. I meant to look it up. I don't know why. I'm guessing my guess is it's a parasite thing. Like it makes them less appealing to like ticks and stuff because the the marsh deer that we saw have those too. If you guys remember that. Yeah, I do remember that. So, I don't know. I'm not sure. I like the idea of a really picky parasite sees a sees a man wolf and it's like no thank you. Nope. No black socks for me. cuz I I think about parasites as just being like whatever we can get, let's get in there, you know? Yeah. Wes, I want to give you a little update before we get into the story. I prepped the story, so Jeff's doing me a solid, you know, hold on to your butts, everyone. Yeah. Uh but anyways, well, let's get into the episode. So, let's go back to where we did our first international trip together 2 years ago. We're going to Australia for this one. And we visited the town that this took place in for just one day. Uh, but you guys describe a little bit what Queensland, Australia was, like how it how it was, how it felt it was, the wildlife like, what were the people like? Like this the whole state of Queensland. Wasn't the town called Queensland? No. No. You mean can you're maybe thinking of Townsville or whatever that place is called. Okay. We were in Queensland for most of our trip. No, this takes place in Queensland. Yeah. So, can is in Queensland. Townsville. Get a little confused. Casawary coast is in Queensland. I loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Hot, sweaty, beautiful. Hot, sweaty, beautiful. There's quite a bit of vegetation there. Like it's not like you don't I wouldn't necessarily describe it as like the red Australia. There's like there's a lot going on though. But this was in northern northern Queensland that this happened. All right. Mhm. Really friendly people, too. I'll just put that out there. Like really just love the people out there. So, uh, this story comes from SBS Insight in Australia. And the person who we're going to be talking about is named Todd Beerto. So, he's the oldest of four boys. Um, he had a sister that died at 9 months old, which caused his mom Kathy to, you know, worry a little bit extra about all of her children. But he ends up, you know, growing up, as kids do, gets a job at They do do that, don't they? Gets a job at uh, Rio Tinto, which is a mining company. They actually have like mines in Utah. They're a very worldwide mining company, but he gets a job in North Queensland. Um, I should have I saw the town's name. I didn't keep it because I thought Queensland was a town, but he's in northern Queensland working as a minor in a little town. Okay. And he's like an averagesized guy, 28 years old. He's in good shape, good health, and like working as a minor in the brutal Australian sun just made him a physically and mentally strong person. Yeah. So, it's the middle of the day of March 2011. Todd just got out of a safety meeting. He drove to a pub, pulled up in his trophy. You guys know what a trophy is? And I'm excited to find out what No idea. It's what he calls his Land Cruiser. Okay. It's just a It's just like a truck, I guess, or Jeep or whatever. Was it like he named it that or is that what people call them there? That's what he called it in his in his retelling of his story. I mean, like I call I call my when I named my computer, uh, her name is is Beverly. So maybe it's kind of like that. No, I don't think it's like that. I think that's what they call like trucks. They have such names for everything out there. That's Yeah, that's the point of me not just calling it his Land Cruiser. So, he gets to the river. Well, so he's going to the pub, but there's a river right next to the pub. So, he stops at the river, decides he's going to take a few casts. Already has like a pole with a lure all rigged up. So, he pulls his car over, cracks open a cold beer, opens the door for his new puppy who he loved named Dig Dig, and steps out of his car. Right. Uh, so when me name for that dog, too. Dig dig. Yeah. When me, Wes, and Cyrus fish together, Wes is a master at like just being ready to go and he always ends up being the first one in the water, which is a big advantage. Like the fish haven't seen a fly yet in that section of river. And, you know, he's just good at grabbing his rod ready to go. And that's how this guy was. So, he grabs his rod at grabbing my rod. A lot of experience. Starts looking for a clearing. Finds him he's he's fishing for Baram Mundi and he just like starts walking on a little goat trail. Starts looking for any type of clearing where he can just throw the lure in the water. Finds a clearing. Takes like two real confident steps as he's like unattaching the lure to set like throw it in the river. And on the second step, he feels a bang just hit him from behind. So he has like a big old grin on his face, turning around thinking one of his friends just like came up behind him and like spoofed him, right? And his grin quickly turns to horror as he sees an 11 foot crocodile latched onto his left leg. So like this crocodile easily knocks him over to the ground. It's a distinctly yellow crocodile, too. But easily knocks them to the ground and starts dragging them into the water until Todd's able to grab some mangrove branches, which are really strong branches, like trees that grow by water. They're really strong branches. So, he's able to grab some like thin but strong mangrove branches and stop the crocodile from being able to pull him into the water anymore. But, he's wearing his work boots. his like boots are getting all wet. So, I'm sure he'll probably new boots. When your boots get wet, they get real small. You know, it's not Oh, that is a good point. I'm more worried about when my socks get wet, though. Like, if my boots get wet, I'm I'm chilling still, I think. But when you have soggy socks, that's when I'm Yeah, I think I think even his pants are starting to get wet. Like, he's his legs are in the water. He's a mess. That sucks. So he's holding on to these branches now. And he's kind of just having a stare off with this big crocodile. It I looked it up. An 11T crocodile. So that's is like 3 m a little over 3 m. They can weigh over 600 lb at that length. This one's a male. So like they it could easily be a 600 lb crocodile that he's trying to hold off. I'm guessing this is a saltwater crocodile since saltwater crocodile. Okay. Yeah. But in fresh water. Yeah, that that adds up. They're in fresh water a lot. But freshwater crocs in Australia really aren't aggressive and don't really ever attack people, but it's a different species even though they both exist in freshwater. Saltwater crocs do attack a fair amount of people. Yeah. So, it's a big old saltwater crocodile. I mean, it's big, but they do get like twice this size as well. Todd said, and I quote, "I'm in trouble here. I've probably gotta get away. Yeah. So, that's his quote about his story and he's just kind They faced off for a few minutes just like unmoving and I kind of pictured it like a UFC fight. The most recent one with that South African guy and the guy from I forget where, but anyways, the guy from South Africa just got dominated. duplexes and the grapplers like in UFC will sometimes just lay on top of their opponents and really not a lot happens. It's just like they're trying to tire them out. So I kind laid on is like really tiring too. I don't know. Like anyone that has an older brother knows that just being laid on top of is like an exhausting experience. And that's kind of happening. Like he's having to hold he's having to hold on to these branches. I'm sure it's like getting really tiring. So, it's just kind of like a stalemate for a bit. And then the crocodile goes slack. So, Todd tries to pull his leg away. And when that happens, it does its first death roll. And this is his left leg. dislocates his knee, shatters his bones, and just like really messes up his leg with one death roll, which you can imagine, like, you know, that's a lot of weight just to start rolling your one leg. So, he goes from being like kind of calm, thinking like this is going to end up all right, to being like, there's a really good chance I'm about to die from this crocodile. and he's in an excruciating amount of pain now, which might be kind of what caused him to do what happens next. This episode is brought to you by Element. Stay hydrated without the sugar, food dye, and other dodgy ingredients found in popular electrolyte and sports drinks. When you're not getting enough electrolytes, you can get headaches, cramps, fatigue, brain fog, and weakness. Just imagine a day where you got all of those things all at the same time. you'd have a pretty good idea what it'd be like to be Jeff, I guess, but not since he started drinking Element. 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So now I've listened to about four or five retellings of Todd with his story. The variable that changes the most is what happens with his 3month old dog Dig Dig. So here's a quote from the article that I mentioned at the start. I've started pulling myself up again and it goes for another death roll, popping and twisting that same leg. While all this is happening, DigDig is barking. I grab him and I think, "Poor little bugger." I start hitting the crocodile on the head with Dig Dig, thinking maybe he'll let go of me and take the dog out. No. The croc pulls me in again. Dig. I let go of Dig Dig and hold the branch again. Dig dig runs along the croc's head onto my back and takes off into the bush. Good for him. James Bond did that once. I'm gonna play because I can't do the Australian accent. I can't do Todd's just a great storyteller. So, I'm going to play a little clip from him telling that part right now. Poor little bugger. I grabbed him and I've just started hitting the crocodile on the head with him with the dog. with the little dog thinking maybe he might let go of me and take Dig Dig or something like that. But no, the crocodile's pulled again and I've let go of Dig Dig and I've grabbed on with both hands again. I've turned around Dig Dig standing on the crocodile's back ankle deep in water. He's come flying up the crocodile up my back and he's gone. Wow. There's pretty lonely feeling me. Dog's gone. He's like, I'm out of here. I'm out of here, mate. Yeah. All right. God, it's funny that he looks like Hugh Jackman. He really does. since I noticed that. I mean, honestly, like talk about a glow up. I was watching his like earlier interviews and he looks so much cooler now with the huge beard and like the mullet. Earlier ones, he just kind of looks I don't know, more of just like a scoundrel like board shorts type. I don't know. I mean, he does a little bit of scoundrelike behavior there. I just would have admitted the part when telling the story like, "I hope he takes my dog instead of me." That's a props I guess for being honest, but that's a that's a tough and we'll get into that. And there's a few different virgin ver virgins um that I listen to. Few of them. Yeah. No, but on like Australian 60 minutes, he was talking about it and in that one it's a little different. He says that he hit the crocodile on the head with Dig Dig a couple times and then he threw Dig Dig in the water hoping like the splash would get the crocodile to like eat DigDig and then that's when Dig Dig ran across its back onto his back, scratched his back up and then like took off. Yeah. Yeah. So, I do think I don't know. Yeah. Let's get into it. I think a lot of listeners are kind of having the same reaction that I had. Is that kind ofed up? You know, so I don't know. Like here's I think he has like obviously a good defense especially. So I ruptured my patellar playing basketball ruptured my patellar tendon. My kneecap was like literally halfway up my thigh. And so easily the worst pain I've ever been in. And like I had zero control over my mind. I had zero control. I was in like a church. I was I at the time wouldn't really swear at all. I was swearing so much I had like no control over myself. Right. Right. So like I do think he has that excuse of like his knee just got dislocated, his bones just got shattered. This dog runs up to him and it's just like it's just impulse almost like I do think survival instinct, right? But then on the other hand, it is like a really crazy story that I'm gonna continue to tell here. And I do think this kind of like takes away a lot of the heroism that he could have had from this story. Yeah. You know, like it's not it's not admirable that he did that. So, I don't know. But he just so everyone knows too that's listening and getting mad right now that he hit the croc with his dog. He's gotten a lot of hate from it. Like he's heard it already. He knows. So like you don't need to like pile on to that. But anyways, what do you guys think of that whole situation? Yeah, I think I'm It's just hard because I've never been in a situation where I could have like some some animal or someone around me that I could compromise in such a way even if it wasn't such a dire circumstance. But like I find it hard to judge really when you're trying to do anything you can. It's like the most primal urge that we have is to like survive, you know, and like you were saying, when it comes down to it, you're going to do whatever you have at you're going to use whatever you have at your disposal to make that happen. So like I Yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying to be kind about it, but that I just can't speak up for being able to do that. The listeners that are like screw this guy. I think it's impossible for us to put ourselves in his shoes and know exactly what any of us would do. I can say there's I don't think I would grab my dog to try and like distract a crocodile. I don't think I would. I can't say it for sure though cuz I've never been in that situation. And he'd only had his dog for like 3 months. So maybe they hadn't like fully bonded or whatever. But that's your best friend. I don't know. That's hard for me to feel like it's justified. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think a lot of listeners will probably think it was I think a lot of listeners will be harder on him than we just were. And sure, who are who am I to say that they're wrong to feel that way? But how long did it didn't it take a while for uh remember the movie Beethoven? Charles Groden that the Beethoven movie, they didn't like each other till like the end of the movie and a lot of time had to pass by and they had to go through a lot. So maybe this guy's just trying to make friends still with his dog, you know? Maybe this is just one of the things they had to go through. Yeah, now they're tight. Probably like one of their goofy one of their goofy eye jinks. Tried to like feed you to a croc, but you scratched up my back when you ran away. So square. Another interesting detail I found in one of the more less uh like viewed videos was he was saying that as he was holding on to these mangroves, he remembered mosquitoes kept biting him. And it's like a real minor inconvenience that I feel like would suck just to have like mosquitoes on your face as you're trying to hold on while Croc's dragging you into the water. But then I was kind of thinking like at least if he's going to die, he knows that maybe he'll get Jurassic Park in the future with his DNA. That's a really good point. Oh, by the mosquitoes. It's a good point. Someday a rich theme park owner will bring him back. Bring him back. Um, so I want to ask you guys here too. So Dig Dig like came up, started barking at the croc and he immediately got used as a weapon and tried to be a sacrifice, right? So can you guys think of a time when someone tried to help someone and then it immediately like backfired and they got screwed over? This is in the categories I asked for like the last one, but I wanted to do one of them in the middle. I I thought of one, but I think it's one we've used before, so I'm sorry it's going to be like a little repetitive. No, not the category, but this example. The one I always think of is um Saving Private Ryan where like the one the translated guy, it like takes mercy on the Nazi that they capture and then he ends up just getting like stabbed slowly by that dude. And I always just think that's right. You just can't ever give any any grace to Nazis. You got to just kill Nazis, you know. Yeah. I was I was thinking in Countmani Kristo uh the the Guy Pierce one. Guy Pierce is like dead to rights and then his son who's actually not his son like runs in the way and interferes to like help him out. Henry Caval. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Henry Caval. And then Guy Pierce immediately like holds a gun to his head and is like, "You're not actually my son." Yeah. A scoundrel. Now that guy's a He would have used a dog as a weapon. For sure. Yeah, for sure. Fair enough. I remember you don't have one. Oh, yeah. No, I got one. Actually, my friend gave me his essay to cuz I forgot to do my homework one time and I kind of copied it basically word for word and the teacher was just immediately like, "Well, you guys cheated." So, my friend got in more trouble than I did even because he would like enabled me. Sorry, Jacob. But that happened with me once with Jeff and he let me like use his because I just was having a hard time getting started and I like changed it and tried to make it like a little worse and like took out a paragraph and stuff and like changed it up and I got a higher grade than he did. That's the best. All right. So, anyways, um the dog didn't work. So, what you're in Todd's situation, you probably feel a little guilty. Like, I think he feels really bad about Dig Dig, but what do you do now? Hopefully. Dig. I mean, I just buy him a lot of treats and just really No, I mean, with the crocodile pulling you into the water. I like where your mind is going though, less. That's good. I forgot that he's still the crocodile's still on him. Yeah, we still got I I imagine he's going to go like go for the eyes. That's what everyone does at this point. You go for the eyes. Yeah. So, crocodiles are really fast and they have most metrics that measure bite force. Say saltwater crocodiles have the strongest bite of any animal on the planet. that West has brought up. There's maybe an argument for great white sharks, possibly like orcas. We haven't really measured, but most people will say cro saltwater crocodiles have the strongest bite on the planet. So, he's gouging the eyes. He's goes to like push the head off of his leg and it readjusts its bite in a split second. Now, it has both legs in its mouth and his finger trapped against his leg. the tooth is like in the middle of his finger going through his finger into his leg. So now he's like really stuck and now he can only hold on to the tree which is saving his life with one arm and it's his left arm. I don't know if he's right-handed or not but um actually no sorry I think it is his right arm that he was holding on to but you're still not sure which his finger his left finger was pinned down. There you go. So, he makes the decision to just rip the finger off. Uh, oh jeez. Turns into like a nearly headless nick situation where there's like a little bit of skin and tendon holding it on still, but he like like essentially rips his finger off so that he can use his left hand to hold the tree as well because he just knew like without both hands, he's getting dragged into the water really fast. So, this went on for about 20 minutes when Todd just couldn't hold on any longer. That's crazy. Yeah. He lets go of the tree and the crocodile pulls him underwater. Wow. So, real quick, we're going to get into a little biology. This is Jeff's gripping a Jeff's eight gripping saltwater crocodile facts. Yeah. All right. Number one, they're the largest reptiles alive today, which Wes probably told us, but I didn't know that. Number two, like by weight? Yeah, by a good margin. Weight and length. Well, not maybe not length. I think there's pythons that are longer. Pythons. Yeah. Yeah. But they're by weight. It's like by a good margin. Yeah. They have an average of 66 teeth and go through about 300 teeth in a lifetime. Oo. This one I know we've told, but it's a good fact, so I'm doing it again. They'll lay 20 to 40 eggs that are hatched male or female. All of the eggs, depending on the temperature of the eggs. So, if it's like a little bit warmer, they all hatch male. They're a little bit colder, they all hatch female. I feel like that's true for all crocodilians, too, which is pretty cool. Yeah, that is really cool. Um, the biggest crocodile ever recorded was measured in the Philippines. caught and measured in the Philippines in 2011 and weighed 2370 lbs and was 20 feet long. Your mama yo mama joke. Yeah. Uh number five. Maybe. Who caught that one though? Was it those fishing guys like stuffing marbles down the alligator or the croc's throat? It's some guy from No, this one's Mike's mama. Fossil records show that crocodiles used to get 39 feet long. Oh yeah. I want I could probably carbon date my mom. Our like closest of kin can do that kind of thing, right? Is that what the your mama joke was? His fossil record. That's what I said. His mom. Uh, all right. Number six. So the reason they're named saltwater crocodiles is that they can live in saltwater. I do think like for me it got a little confusing where I assume they do always live in salt water and a lot of times they still prefer fresh water or what they really like is like a mix. So they like fresh water. Yeah. Yeah. Brackish water like where a river meets the ocean type of situation like estuaries. Yeah. Yep. But they have specialized lingual salt glands located under their tongues that excrete excess salt and that allows them to manage their electrolyte balance and survive in marine and brackish environments. And um there's even stories of them traveling like 600 miles through the ocean, which is how they're so widespread and they've made it into coastal regions in the open ocean. Wow. Number seven, they're ambush predators who eat anything from birds and fish to large mammals such as like water buffalo and cattle and you know whatever comes to shore the not this time. They've never eaten a dig dig. Never once. Number eight is they can live up to 70 years. Pretty good. Yeah. And that is really good. Number nine, my bonus fact. I like this one. This one's crazy. They can go up to a They can go a year without eating. So, they really don't need to eat like frequently. And in a few extreme cases, they can go two to three years without eating. Yeah, that's crazy. So long. Yeah. So, there's the facts. Let's get back to the story now that we got a better idea of the animal we're talking about. What's the longest time you've ever gone without eating, Wes? I would guess like 30 hours. Yeah, that's I did like 40 hours a week ago. Really? Whoa. Why? You must have been so angry. Colonoscopy. I just felt a little fat. When I lose weight, I just like stopped eating food. I I went 72 hours once. Whoa. Why? uh just like I I heard there's like these crazy health benefits if you like get past a certain amount. I was like I'm going to see if I can do that. But then I immediately just like the minute 72 hours was up I had like Cheetos and like sausages and stuff. It wasn't probably sausages, right? Apparently it's like you can have some weird gut issues and get diarrhea. I didn't get diarrhea. Like huge surprise there, but I heard you can. Yeah. Yeah. 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It's got both legs in its mouth. This crocodile is about to win this fight, right? Yeah. Todd was just physically exhausted. Couldn't hold on anymore. He go, he's completely submerged. But then he realizes that the water's only like 3 or 4 feet deep and that he kind of still has a chance to get out of it because it's not like very deep. So, he's able to like push himself out of the water and grab back onto the tree and pull himself back out a little ways, which is crazy, but he just kind of needed a breather, you know, like his arms just got too tired. He just needed a second. It is kind of funny to think that he's been in this situation for a half an hour. Probably thinking this water was like super deep and he I don't know if it would have changed anything for him, but it's funny to just to think like 3 feet below him was the ground. He could have maybe used that to his advantage somehow. I don't know. I think still being in the water like the crocodiles not a huge advantage. Like if he's underwater, it's just trying to drown him in 600 lb. It can definitely hold him under. So, he's lucky to have gotten out of the water. It's like a movie scene, too. Like I I can just see him like getting pulled under and the surface of the water getting all still and flat and the camera just sits there for like a minute and then he like erupts out of the water again and grabs them and grove. It's pretty crazy. Wild. And I should have noted, but uh the crocodile had done a few death rows at this point. So his other leg, like his other knee would has been dislocated and like shattered as well. Now both legs are jelly at this point and he's missing one finger. So he's he's able to get himself out of the water. Mosquito bites. He's got scratches and mosquito bites. Yeah. So now he's like really close to dying, but he gets like another chance, begins yelling again, and he's just saying, "Help, Croc. Help Croc. And 300 meters away at Albatross Pub, Railen Mottton had just stepped outside, probably cutting the edge off from the looming work shift she's about to do. Starts smoking her sig and just across the river starts hearing stops hearing the frantic words, "Help Croc. Help Croc." So she runs into the Croc needs help out there. Yeah, exactly. She runs into the brush and she yells to Todd and she says, "Don't worry, love. Help is on the way." Which gave Todd hope and a second wind to survive. So she runs back to the pub and found a man named Kevin Beavenon who was ironically no way who was ironically nearby searching for his lost dog. What? Yeah. And she tells him, "Hey, like there's someone in the river down there. They're yelling like something about a crocodile. They need your help. They're on the other side." So he he's in his car. He drives across the bridge as fast as he can. Starts running through the bushes until he goes down and he sees his friend Todd halfway in the water. No way. Is Todd like Kevin Beavenon? You know what? Funny you should ask. Let's just play what he's like for you. Kevin's like, "Oh, I'm just looking for me dog." Scratch. Scratch. Dog dog. It's pretty close. Here we go. Australian ax. I've gone under and I've turned back around again. And it was only It was only like this deep. It was only about foot just over a meter deep. 4 foot deep. So I've managed to scramble back up again and pull myself out of the water up here and I'm holding on and I started yelling out again, help croc help croc and next minute I heard this voice the pub Albatross pub was about 300 m away and a lady named Railen Mottton she's come out for a durry or a beer come out for a durry you know the pub she cigarette y prop she's come over and I heard through the bushes I've heard help's coming love. Oh. Oh, mate. And that was my second wind. I'm like, "Fucking you, you're a beauty." Someone's coming. A B named Kevin Beavenon. He was driving through the uh the pub car park. He was looking for his dog, funny enough. And she's ran up to him. She She goes, "Someone's in trouble. Crocodile, I think, and he's driven up around over the bridge, Trunding Creek Bridge, and he's come around on the other side where I was of the creek. And he's um he's come running through the bushes there. And I'm holding on to this hearing water. All me pants are hanging down me legs and he's like toddy we knew each other funny enough and I'm like Kev he goes where's the croc? He says oh me legs. So he's come down and Kebab is he's is a bushman. You know he's been around. Nothing phases him too much. He's coming down. He's I'm grabbing him, grabbing me arms. He's the crocodile's let go cuz shallow. The crocodiles let go cuz obviously he startled him. He's wigging me around. He's pulled me up. He's dragged me up the bank there about 10 meters from the bank. I'm laying on me back. I'm grabbing him. I'm hugging him. All me fingers hitting him in the face. He's like, "Get that figure out of me face." And he goes, "The [ __ ] old fell off could put me pants down." I looked there and we start started laughing. It was still there. [Music] So, Oh, that's so good. Yeah. So, he says, "He bit your old fella off because Todd had been completely pants by this croc and so Todd like looks down is like being bit off." He's like, "No, it's still there." And then they just both start laughing, which is just the funniest way to like rescue your friend. I love him saying like, "Where's the croc?" And he's like, "It's on me legs." So confused by this show. It honest. The way it's set up, it makes it look like he was just part of the audience. His story just like kind of took took over the studio. Dude, that's what it was. There was like six other people in the audience who all told stories of how they almost died. There's just other like random people like that guy with a circle head that Wes was remark. [Laughter] But anyways, from Spy Kids. So then he like pulls him out of the water, right? He says in a different interview that I saw he didn't know how to pull because there's a crocodile on his leg. So he's like, "Well, there's a crocodile on his legs, so you know, I don't really know how to pull with a crocodile." Which is just like, "Yeah, we of course you didn't." But then like the crocodile let him go. They pull him up the bank a little bit. And then the crocodile ends up coming back and like charging him again up the bank. Whoa. and three like 14 or 15year-old teenagers had like come to the scene and started throwing rocks at it and it turned around again. It's a determined crocodile. Holy cow. Yeah, that's the survival story of it. An ambulance came, rushed Todd to the nearest hospital where he began the long process to recovery and in total Todd ended up having to have 14 procedures. Oo. Uh, so that's primarily on his legs. His knees were like completely dislocated, tendons torn, bones shattered, and then also he was missing his finger, which got amputated from like the middle knuckle up. His pants, the doctors told him that that he pants. It's like that cop who arrested Scotty Sheffller and then destroyed pants were destroyed. Completely destroyed. That's terrible. Doctors said they were unsure if he'd ever be able to walk again. He also for a while wasn't even able to use a wheelchair because his finger had been ripped off. So, he just kind of was like a vegetable for a while. What? Not vegetable. Sorry. That's I mean I'm not sure. He just would still get a wheelchair going without a finger, but I don't know. Well, his hand's like wounded. Sure. You know what though? But like your hand has to heal if your finger comes off. Like you don't you can't be like Yeah, I think you're right. If I were a doc, that's a good move by a doctor. I would totally just underell everyone's chances when they can't like someone comes in with a sprained ankle and I'm like, "Things are looking pretty grim here. No, no, if you're gonna make it." So that way like you're just gonna always, you know, hit above your expectations kind of thing. He's he really wanted to get back to his job. It took him like a year recovery, but he got back to his job and then 60 Minutes was like really into just making him go up to crocodiles again. So there's like a video of him in a dive cage surrounded by crocodiles. And then also in 2020 he went to see the crocodile that had attacked him. So, the crocodile, now named Kevin, Todd named him that, was caught days after the encounter and was relocated to the Drain Tree Wild Zoo in Canes. So, I think we almost went there. Yeah, we were close to going where he now has a girlfriend. So, he has a girlfriend, which is sick. Good for him. I I mean it just proves it's messed up, but it proves like if you if you attack people fighting people outside of bars, you don't get a girlfriend. I don't think that's necessary. Confidence is maybe a better word. He fought someone outside of the bar and now he's got a girlfriend. That's all I'm saying. To me, it mean he was an incel and he was just attacking people cuz he just had all this frustration. But now that he's got a girlfriend, he's calmed way down. Just chilled out. Well, Todd seemed to think that he still had the aggressive killer croc in his eyes when he saw him and is able to easily recognize Kevin the crocodile because it was like a very uniquely yellow crocodile. Like I saw a video of him and it's pretty yellow saltwater crocodile and he thinks the crocodile might have recognized him too. I'm going to say probably not. Dude, you didn't even get that close to him. Um, and Kevin Beavenon also went to the see the crocodile again at the zoo and he spoke to 60 Minutes and they brought up that he won two bravery awards that he was given for helping his friend. So, I just want to play one more clip of him talking about his bravery awards. He's he's so cool. Kevin Beavenon. He has like the Anakin braided ponytail thing, but it's like right in the middle of his back of his head. Sweet. And like his intro on this video is just him riding a motorcycle, which, you know, was his idea. So, I didn't pull him out to get a medal, but um it's an honor to have been selected to get them. Yeah. Something to pass down to the the my daughter and probably her kids one day. I suppose one of the highest medals you can get in it for being a hero and yeah pretty much wasn't then guys know I wouldn't be here today doing this dude mate [ __ ] life no worry mate no problem I want to move to Australia so yeah they're just cheersing over saving his life which funny little clip this episode is brought to you by Miracle Made traditional bed sheets can harbor more bacteria than a toilet seat can lead to acne, allergies, and stuffy noses. It's just disgusting. Miracle Ma offers a whole line of self-cleaning antibacterial bedding such as sheets, pillowcases, and comforters that prevent up to 99.7% of bacteria growth and require up to three times less laundry. There you go. A lot cleaner, a lot less laundry to do. It's a win on every front. And this is how that happens. Miracle Made sheets are infused with silver that prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth, leaving them to stay cleaner and fresh three times longer than other sheets. So, no more gross odors. 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That's ollie.com/to and enter code tooth to get 60% off your first box. Yeah. So, that's I mean, that's the story. Uh, do you guys have any questions about any of it? No, I I'm just I'm just going to apologize for all the noise behind me, but uh I don't have any questions. I want to learn as much as possible about Todd and Kevin's friendship. That's all I want to hear about. Do we have any news on Dig Dig? Oh, Dig Dig. Yeah, he rehome. Yeah, he was. M. So Todd's like one of Todd's mates as he says it ended up adopting DigDig. I think honestly like Todd loved his dog but I think he felt pretty ashamed about that part and just honestly couldn't face DigDig again. So Digd Dig ran off. He asked his friend to like go find him. His friend found him and just took him in. It's probably the right for the best. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, the beethtoven point was a pretty good point though. He was kind of a bad dog, honestly. Yeah. You know, I'm not saying dig dig. I don't know anything about dig dig. I'm just saying we don't know everything, so I'm not going to judge. Do you think uh crocodiles like they have a preferred way in which they do the death roll? Kind of like a right-handed, left-handed situation. think they like rolling right maybe. Yeah. Who would think they would get like one direction they just defer to more often, you know? Yeah. Like like a defensive lineman, you're like on one one end or the other. Clockwise or counterclockwise? Yeah. Counterclockwise. Listen, I've been talking a while. I'm You've done that point where I just slur. No, you're doing a great story. And I do I want to shout out um Sarah from All the Sharks who actually did suggest this story at one point. She was the other half of the Britain team. So yeah, you know, oh I didn't know that Wes suggested it to me because I was going to do an episode that I there's one a story I wanted to do and Wes was like, "Oh yeah, I was going to do that one. It has like a lot of detail behind it." I was like, "You should do it then." like just give me one where I can do bullet points. So, this was great. Yeah. And she's she's the one that passed this along originally. So, thank you, Sarah. Yeah. Thanks, Well, should we go to categories? Let's do it. Think we'd better. All right. So, first of all, what would Wes and Mike do? I mean, are you hitting it with the dog? First of all, I'm not hitting it with my dog. Um, would you like How about this? What if the dog ran up to the crocodile? Would you like allow that to happen or would you try to shoe the dog away? If the dog naturally like ran and could have been a distraction, would you have allowed that? I if maybe if it was Dig Dig and I'd only had Dig Dig for like 3 months on my own and hadn't really bonded yet, but with like Bryce or Paulie, no. I would like try and get them away. I think I'd like to say that. That's what I think I would do. Yeah, that that feels like what my instinct would be as well is just to get him away from there. Yeah. Yeah. I honestly think like in my right mind that's what I would do. But I think with my knee dislocated and my bones broken, I honestly don't think I could keep my right mind. And I think I would just do anything to try to get out of the situation. What I would do is since you said that he calms way down once he got a girlfriend, I would just give him some little kisses on the mouth while he's eating my legs and like some nice just like pats and just be very sweet to him and maybe he wouldn't be so mad. Maybe that's all I I don't think I don't think I said he calmed way down. I think Mike maybe said that, but I took it to be true. So that's what I would do. Do crocodiles have ears? Could you scratch them behind the ears? They've internal like that. Yeah. Oh, that'd be tough to scratch them behind there then. Probably real good, though. Uh, if I still had my fishing pole with me, I'd cast my hook right into its eyeball. That sounds bad. The crocodile is not going to Can you imagine? Yeah. No, that's a good I'm doing that. Yeah. All right. Or like cast it to your car and reel yourself back into your car. Or maybe like put Dig Dig on the on the hook and cast it into the river. Crocodile. I'm not saying that's what I know this is what Mike and Wes would do, but I if I were if this were what would Todd do, that's what I would do if I were Todd. All right. Um, do you have info on on what you're actually supposed to do? I do. if you don't. Well, we've done a few We've done like a couple where like eye gouging has actually worked, but he tried that. Didn't work. So, yeah. Let's hear what you got. The exactly kind of what you were just saying is like there are things that could work, but they there's a good chance they won't. So, the main thing with any like big crocodilian is just avoiding the attack in the first place. So, not if you're in a place where there's a lot of saltwater crocodiles, you need to be really careful being close to the water just all the time. You kind of have to be on edge because this isn't like this is one of the animals that does kill a lot of people. And there are places in Australia where if you like swim or if you're too close to the water, you have a pretty good chance of running into one. So, you just have to really avoid them in the first place because if they do get a hold of you, like Todd demonstrates here, sometimes there's very little that you can do to stop the attack. Even hitting it with your dog won't It is an interesting one, too, where like like he obviously I don't think he even had crocodiles on his mind. He was like tunnel vision, first fishing, didn't expect it to be there. And like I said, they're ambush predators, but it's just crazy. like they're one of the most deadly animals on Earth. They're huge and he just walked like right next to it without even like seeing it for a second, you know? Yeah. Yeah. They just like hide in any body of water in saltwater crocodile territory. And it wasn't even in the water. Like it's in the trees. Like it's scary. It was a a yellow one, too. Probably a little more conspicuous. It's like when you find a shiny Pokémon. He was probably excited for it. If it was green, he would have been like, "That's a crocodile." But since it's yellow, it's like I don't know what that is. Huge banana or something. I don't know. [Music] All right. Favorite pop. Gosh, I keep saying Freudian slip. You got it. This word isn't even close. Favorite pop culture use of an unconventional weapon. This is a tough one. For some reason, my brain went to Kung Lao's hat in Mortal Kombat. He's got like the sharp hat that he flings around, and that's pretty sweet. Or doesn't Odd Job do that? Yeah. Yeah. Odd Job. Oh, that's probably the better earlier. They're both good. I My brain initially went to Anton Sugar from No Country for Old Men and the the cow stun, like the bolt gun for cows. Yeah. That he uses to kill people. But my backup was um The Microwave and Gremlins when the mom puts one of the gremlins in the microwave. It's a great scene. Amazing movie. Yeah, Mike made me think of that movie where they're like playing Frisbee and then someone pulls out a Frisbee with like razors on it and it fingers up. Everyone needs to go watch that scene on YouTube. I want to say hot shots, but I don't think that's right. I don't I can't remember the name, but he like very obviously like puts the real one away and like suspiciously pulls out this super dangerous looking one, but people don't like even when it's coming at him, they don't recognize. Some like really intense contest of throwing a Frisbee back and forth between two like macho guys. Yeah. Uh my actual answer was going to be either the shoe that the reporter threw at George Bush. I just love that so much. That's a good one. The two shoes or I think in the movie Cliffhanger they use like the helicopter blades to kill someone. Pretty cool. They do that in 28 weeks later, too. Pretty cool. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good move. Oh, what about uh H never mind. It's fine. I was going to make another Dweeb reference, but I won't. I'll refrain. You know, I think if he had any of those weapons, he would use Dig Dig. Probably not. Yeah. um a time when you were surprised to bump into someone you knew. So, since I'm in Brazil, mine's actually like a story from Brazil when I I came back here in like 2007 or 8 with a friend and our first few nights we just like went out and went to a club and he ended up like hooking up with this Brazilian woman. just made out with her a little bit in this club and then she was just like texting him the rest of the time we were in Brazil just nonstop and we went all over the country and then we came back to Rio for our flight out and like Rio is a city of I want to say it's like more than 10 million people I think and we went up to the the Christ statue and she was up there and it was like the most surprising thing ever and I genuinely think she was so obsessed with my friend that she was like going up there multiple times to like cuz she knew that sooner or later we were going to go up there. It's like a tourist spot. Yeah. Yeah. But it was so shocking and both of us just like immediately hid and she didn't see us. We saw her first, but it was Yeah, it was pretty scary. That's Yeah, that's But you should hang out with her. Yeah, it's kind of sad. Maybe that's the story. It's a little bit sad from like all directions, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well. uh my brother. So we went to the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City back in 2002 in Salt Lake City. We we're living in Reno, so we had to drive all the way there and then as we were driving back, my brother burst into a bathroom stall in Wendover and just there was someone already in there. It was an unlocked stall. So like already kind of an awkward circumstance and then it ended up being this kid that he knew from his high school. It was like a really awkward like quick apology, but then like, "Oh, wait a minute." So, they like kind of were standing there and he was like sitting on the toilet and my brother was like, "What's up? What's up?" And then he left. It was just like such a weird shocking like the last place you kind of expect, you know, in an unlocked bathroom stall in a gas station in Wendover. Really bizarre, you know? I don't have a great answer for this one. I don't like my answer. So, okay. Unless I do when Wes visited me in Guatemala that but like he it was intentional that he was doing that so I don't know if it counts but that was the most surprised to see someone I've ever been. Yeah. All right. Time you you or like anyone in movies or real life went from being calm to realizing like you're in real trouble. Uh I can start this one. So for me it was driving from Utah to Montana late at night and my cousin just like when he drives he always swerves around a ton so he starts like heading towards the median and I was kind of like you know like okay this is fine and then we got like 2 feet from the median. I'm like, "Oh, we're in real trouble." And I started yelling and he woke up and then we just fish tailed across the entire highway for like both directions, too. Like he saved it and we fish tailed and then he had to turn it the other way and fish tailed the other direction from like going off the road the other way. And we just fish tailed like four times till we skided to a stop. And the whole time he was yelling, "Don't die. Don't die. Don't die. Don't die." And he didn't have a seat belt on too. So I feel like he would have like flown into me or something if we rolled. But yeah. Yeah. That's my Jeez. I'm going to go We can do pop culture ones, right? Yeah. I'm going to go with the midpoint of the movie Parasite when it flips on its head into kind of the back half thriller of the movie where they're all hanging out in the house and everything's going well. like obviously they're not doing it good things, but they're kind of ingratiating themselves to the family and it's all working out for them and then all of a sudden it's like, "Oh, we're this house is like we're not alone here kind of thing." And it gets real spooky and tense from there out. But I just thought that's probably one of the best moments in movies of the past million years, I would say. [Laughter] You can't just say ever. Well, I just don't want to pigeon my I don't want to paint myself in that corner, you know. Uh, so I actually because again because I'm in Brazil, I'm picking a a story from that same trip that I just told you guys about. So me and this friend had had kind of this whirlwind trip and we were down we were like on a total budget. We had hardly any money. We were down to like our last little bit of money. were trying to find a really cheap taxi to the airport and we were asking everyone like what the cheapest they could do and this guy was like I'll do it for 30 he eyes which is the Brazilian money to take us to the airport. I'm like great unmarked taxi. We weren't thinking and I get in and I'm feeling real calm cuz I feel like I finally got a taxi for the amount of money I had. And then I started getting really worried cuz he was on a radio and like I knew Portuguese. I don't think he knew that we knew Portuguese and he was like telling people that he was bringing us there and all this stuff and I was worried we're going to get taken somewhere and like killed. But then he goes to the airport and I get like call him again and then as we're leaving he's like oh it's 30 he eyes per kilometer and we had driven like 30 kilometers or something and we're just like oh we don't we don't have that. We're we can't pay you that. And he said, 'Well, I have I have a gun in my glove box, then I'm going to shoot you. And I said, "Okay, well, I have more money in my bag. I need to get into my bag." And he opened up the trunk and we grabbed our bags and just ran into the airport. Whoa. Yeah, it's so scary. Yeah. Anyway, that was like the most scared I think I've ever been in Brazil, actually. Never mind. But it was I was pretty scared. No, we just ran into the airport. Yeah. You didn't even give him the No, he threatened. No, I was just curious. Yeah. Left any. Do you think he had a gun? Maybe Rob did throw some through the window, actually. But yeah, I don't know if he actually had a gun or not, but it he was trying to shake us down for sure. Yeah, cuz that would have been an insane amount of money for a cab ride. Like 900 AIS. And you've never been shot before, right? I've not been shot. No. How do you think you would have handled it? Not well. That would have been bad, probably. Yeah, I would have handled it a lot worse than Todd handled getting attacked by a crocodile. That's for sure. I I have two other questions here. Uh I added, did Wes listen to either of the Altitude episodes we did without him? No, but I'm going to. You're going to listen to the one we did like two months ago. I do really want to listen to it because so many people were saying that it was totally unhinged and off. Bill was so bad, dude. Yeah, he's fired. He one of his stories was like one ft deep. Yeah, he did a bad job on that one. I think overall he did a great job, but the main task at hand, he did a bad job. No, he did a great job. He's going to have his work cut out for him on this one, so we'll hire him back. Serious. If you if you like our message, you feel like you want to support us, or if you just want that extra content, go to Patreon or Apple subscription. Go listen to our two altitude highest attack and lowest attack ever stories and just a ton of content on there. So, there's our Patreon plug and message me and let me know if they're good. Yeah. Let Wes know if it's worth his time. Um, do you guys have a podcast episode that you want to recommend? And I can start since No, since I didn't prep you on this. Just any podcast episode you listen to recently. Like I've been doing a lot of sports ones, but I'm going to do just National Park After Dark had a really funny onestar reviews of national parks episode that I thought was really funny. like they found onestar reviews of the national parks and then I've read some of those before. They're really good. Yeah, it is really funny. So, yeah, I recommend that. I'm gonna recommend uh a podcast that I'm guesting on this month that's coming out soon, but it's podcast I just absolutely love, which is too scary, didn't watch. And the nice thing is you can type in to either going to be our podcast or their podcast that comes up first, which is great. They just did their review of Weapons, which is probably my favorite movie of the year, and I laughed through their entire review. And um it's more of a recap than a review. The whole podcast format is like Sammy, who's been on our show multiple times, we'll probably have on for Halloween again. Sammy loves horror movies, but um the other two girls don't. And so they, Henley and Emily, they have Sammy tell them the plot of the whole movie. And it's kind of just like a fun way for scaredy-cats that don't like watching scary movies to still learn about scary movies. I really like really good for ID. They're all three very funny. Yeah. On Tooth andclaw Reddit, I saw someone saying, "We got to go listen to your episode. You guessed it on that." So Oh, is it out? Oh, nice. Oh, yeah. It must be. Cool. Yeah. Uh I'll go with I I feel like every once in a while it bears mentioning that we were heavily inspired by a show called The Watchables. We've brought it up a few times, but uh this being the 50th anniversary of the movie Jaws, but they had already talked it's a movie podcast. I guess I'll start there, but they did they did an episode on Jaws 2, which is not a great film, but still pretty good. I'll defend it. uh really fun film in a lot of ways, but their episode made watching the movie just a hundred times better because they're just it's the most fun and the funniest show they've put out in a long time in my opinion and I love everyone involved in that show. So, I love that. Shout out Rewatchables. Yeah, I love them, too. All right. And then I have some listener questions. Is Adella 96 wants to know, "What's your 20,000th favorite animal?" I was thinking when I read it first I read favorite animal in the 2000s though. So let's do it that way. I'm changing a question. It's the year 2000. What's your favorite animal? Like what's my actual favorite animal in the year 2000? Yeah. When you were in the living in the year 2000, what was your favorite animal? Probably a great white. Mine was a jaguar. I had a big penguin stretch just like an Adelli penguin. So, I think that's probably around the age when I was having Yeah, my two thousandth favorite animal is a ladybug. Um, dude, that's so low. Ladybugs are so cool, dude. Are you kidding me right now? That is pretty good for a bug to be that high. That's like top 50 for me. Where is Carmen SD asks, uh, favorite 2000's one hit wonder? Where is Carmen San Diego is what that is. I I mine's easy for me and it's like the most generic answer possible, but I legitimately loved it was Allstar by Smashmouth. I loved that song and I thought the music video was so fun and I know it's like a joke now and played out, but like I legitimately that was like my song for a little while. Was that in the 2000s? I feel like that was like 98 or 99. Well, if not, Alien Ant Farm is my backup. Oh, there you go. Smooth crypto, not Kyle Cornell 18 asks, "Did you guys wear the white t-shirt with polo top like every guy in the 2000s?" Yes, I did. I wore a white t-shirt with a American Eagle polo shirt a lot. Just like a white tea with a polo. Yeah, I never wore a polo at once in my entire life. I was counter. I never once did the popped collar on a polo though. I always hated that. My friend did it and he was the cool kid at school, but I was kind of like, I don't know if you're really doing a good job with the whole cool kid at school title that we've begrudgingly given you. Ella DS asks, "You can bring, sorry, you can bring any permanently closed store company from the 2000s back. What are you doing?" Uh, Sam Goody, I used to love going up and down those aisle. I don't know if that counts as 2000 specifically. I think that I think that works. Mine's along the same lines. It'd be Blockbuster. I just want like movie rental stores back. Just being able to like walk and see a bunch of that stuff was nice. Yeah. No, I'll go with I'll go with that. I I couldn't think of a good one. Uh Elliot Duke asked eyebrow piercings, yes or no? Todd in our story had a eyebrow piercing in one of the videos. I thought it's kind of cool. I'm not ant. I personally don't love them, but I if you want to get one. What do you think's like? I'm all for it. Let's say for a guy on your face, where's the coolest place you can get pierced? I I like a septum piercing on guys. Yeah. Or a nose ring. I like the Tom Dong like kind of side bottom lip piercing. That was always cool to me for when I saw Blink videos and stuff. Yeah. I'm I'm all for eyebrow piercings though. Like I don't think I would ever do it, but I think it's I think it's a pretty cool look. Last one. Hawks 40. Was Avil Lavine punk? I say no. I think she was just Hot Topic. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a genre, I guess. As someone who was like thought I, you know, I was pretty into the punk scene back then. Even though a lot of what I listen to would be considered pop punk, I listen to a lot of like real punk, too. And I think in both of those worlds, even in pop punk, people didn't see her as an actual punk artist. She was like a mainstream recording artist that was kind of putting on a punk facade. But I also think that whole world of like trying to define what's punk and what's not punk is I think that's stupid. So genre gatekeeping is so obnoxious. But I do I don't think Aver Lavine is punk. Yeah, I do think like a lot of the bands considered punk like fall apart when you really pick it apart. Like the mainstream ones like a lot of them kind of sold out if we're being honest and that's not very punk. And a lot of them by design like Blink182 they're from the start they're like we are trying to be a huge commercially successful band you know. Yeah. Exactly. The way I think about I think genres are important in as much as if I type punk into Spotify or something. I'm not going to want to see Averal Lavine at the top of that list. That's not what I'm looking for, you know? So, but I'm not I'm also not going to be like she sucks because she isn't punk. I actually like a lot of her music. If someone said like, "Hey, I like punk music." And I said, "Oh, what bands do you like?" And they the first one they said was Averil Lavine. I would, you know, I would kind of be like, "No." you know. Yeah, I agree. But I don't I think that she has an argument both ways. Yeah. Like I think she has an argument of not being like pop, but then I think she has an argument of not being punk. And I don't know. Yeah. No, she has a really interesting career trajectory navigating through all like the major label nonsense. Being the Nickelback guy and the some 41 guy. Oh yeah. So cool. Who would you pick between those two? Weren't skater boys, I guess. No, he was the some 41 guy. I would probably pick him, but I don't know. Chad, you think Ailine is um what's the It's like the whole conspiracy when she got replaced a couple of years into her career. You believe that? No, don't. They look so different, Wes. They're different people. It's so obvious. Well, that does it for this episode of Tooth andClaw podcast. Thank you everyone for listening and Wes, we miss you. Thanks Jeff. I miss you too. I'll be back soon as sooner than you'd think. Two weeks. It's like a threat. It's a little longer than I thought, honestly. It's a whole month here. So, yeah. Oh, good. So, we can expect you to be recording in your little isolation chamber next time. Promise next time it'll be better. I thought I had it all worked out here and I should have just recorded in my car or something. Sorry, guys. But I promise next time it'll be better. And yeah, I'll figure it out. All right. Thanks, Jeff. That was great. What do we always say, Mike? We love you. Uh, everyone who listens, we love you sincerely. It's like not We're not joking. We're not just saying it. It's true pure love that we feel from the bottom of our hearts, right? Yes. Right guys? Yes. No, it's like we always say, enjoy the view. That's right. But watch your back. That's what we always say. All right. See you later. Love you guys. Love you. See you.