you're going to see robots first in the workforce in like vast numbers you're going to see them in the home and you're going to start seeing them in space this will all happen brett adcock space would be fantastic for humanoids it's just like such a pernicious place for humans and the note kosa let me give you my most optimistic view of acceleration the future of work surgery and space travel do you see robot surgeons in the future being uh the baseline i think the beauty in a humanoid is that we really want to be eternal purpose customization generally means more cost what is the role of universal basic income in the economy of the future i do think we will have to deal with that issue through policy i don't think the current capitalist system unmodified will work now that's a moonshot ladies and gentlemen this is your time your time we'll take questions at the mic we'll take questions on slido let's begin right here so i'm mike wandler i've got a company called evercore energy that i just started to innovate energy and i was really focused on micro reactors for heavy industrial mining so the uh the fusion really changes that i hadn't heard that that was going to be available in the next five years what companies should i watch and maybe pivot my business model look there's there's you know a lot of fusion companies but there's good halfozen efforts that are high credibility so that's why i'm pretty confident commonwealth helion uh there's there's others you know there's taiwan there's riala there's uh just in fact every country has their own effort just like every there's sovereign ai there's sovereign fusion technology coming out so uh my thing i only comment i would make is in all these areas of massive change you have to look at regulatory forces and political pressures right right uh the screen actors guild fought the use of ai and their customers will almost certainly go out of business if they comply with that agreement uh that's what will happen u so regulatory matters and in fision specifically i think no matter how safe you are and we are investors in car power with bill gates u what will happen is it will take longer to site a power plant right because of community objections environmentalist objections u nimiism all that then it takes to develop a fusion technology from scratch so that's the situation that's why i become a little less bullish on fision reactors i would love to see it but i i i don't see it happening rapidly while i see a easy path to building 5,000 fusion power plants by 2050 maybe more amazing let's go to john hi my name's john this is for brett how soon do you think that there will be the opportunity to have robots in the field for the trades so i'm in an auto repair business i want to send a technician out and secondly will there be the opportunity to beta and partner with expertise that we have in that with a company like yours yeah we we made the decision pretty early on just to pick like the minimal amount of companies to ship like a certain number which is for us is like magic number is 100,000 robots into uh we have that now with our first two groups um so we and we have like we're relatively young we're still under three years old team's like a few hundred engineers like we just don't have the uh like the truth so we just don't have like the bandwidth a lot of times to do a lot of extra work outside the what we have um but we're doing a lot of work right now in like uh other areas like healthcare construction other ind like obviously the home um so i think i think for us like to extent um uh there's like a mechanical need for mechanical human in uh to be put in those like we want to be like understanding and looking at it more um so yeah hopefully uh hope it seems like a really exciting hopefully it's an area we can like spend so spend time in the next few years i hope it is too i would love it thank you amazing all right steve hi steve strickland first of all to both of you thank you for the wealth you've created for many in this room and certainly around the the planet but for brett a question when you start reaching smaller businesses um where you're placing humanoids will you allow customization of the chassis um to meet the need of the particular user i think the beauty in a humanoid is that we really want to be general purpose and when we start customizing we start making things like really specialized it's really when you get caught in this like problem of like high energy scenarios like really hard uh to to to keep it reliable to maintain it to design it and we have like multiple different product paths and then the ai system if it's not doing well like with um transfer learning across those different tasks now because the embodiment is different the observation space of the robots different it becomes like really challenging um i think our vision my vision for this is we have one single hardware platform that can do everything a human can we move our roadmap to be more like a human we move like a human we can touch and feel things more like a human over time so our road map's kind of drawing us down that curve and um we won't do every single thing in the world but we want to be able to do a majority of what humans can do with one hardware system that's how we're going to get the cost down to like $20,000 levels and that's how we're going to get the intelligence up to allow it to do that end to end so i think in the foreseeable future we do not plan to make any hardware adjustments to the main chassis uh but we do plan to make uh product revisions to be more like be able to operate more and more like a human over time okay thanks yep the note on slido here the question is if electrical generation is taken care of uh will there still uh require additional investments in transmission line distribution transformers i'm thinking about need for you know reasonably close to room temperature superconductors and such so we will need transmission lines but let me suggest the following there'll be different size fusion reactors so we have commonwealth fusion which is building a 500 megawatt reactor five yeah we have reala fusion that's building 50 megawatt reactors now you can put 50 megawatt reactors in what is today a substation mhm what does it do eliminate the need for transmission so we will need more transmission i'm not saying we won't but my bet is citing more reactors in more locations will be uh an alternative we have um so uh i i'm pretty optimistic that will happen i want to just add a comment on brett's answer on the last question yes customization generally means more cost y and small business you know henry ford said you can have any color as long as it's black the the point was reduce the number of sks reduce the cost increase the volume and that's the way to make them really affordable yep now there will be specialized robots that'll do other things and have more capability especially when you go beyond human capability so when you go to superhuman capability being able to lift a car without a jack um you you may need more specialized operation so uh i i think it'll look very much like the auto industry that it'll diversify some but the highest volume things will be the cheapest and most applicable and the world is designed around human form factors so they'll fit in in many more places without needing to change the environment and people will change some environments everybody i hope you're enjoying this episode did you know that we're likely to see as many as 10 billion humanoid robots by 2040 and that brett adcock the ceo of figure anticipates they'll have robots in our home in the next 2 to 3 years how about max hodak's new form of bci called biohybrid interfaces that could offer millions of connections between your neoortex and the cloud then there's michael andre whose efforts at eon is focusing on uploading the human conneto to the cloud by 2030 these aren't science fiction scenarios they're serious efforts underway today i've distilled the most powerful insights and road maps from this year's abundance 2025 summit into a comprehensive report that will transform how you see the future get your free copy of the abundance 2025 summit summary at diamandis.com/breakthroughs that's diamandis.com/breakthroughs let's go to mike 5 mark hey peter uh my name is mark donovan founder of the denver basic income project and my moonshot is to create affordable living as a service housing food energy data and transportation for $250 a month by the end of the decade but node you started by asking how will we pay people in the future and i haven't heard anyone answer that yet yesterday kathy wood said that technology will create more jobs than it displaces which has been true historically but i've been assuming this will not be true with ai and humanoid robots what do you think about that and what is the role of universal basic income in the economy of the future so um for a longer distation on that i wrote a 25page piece on ai will it lead to dystopia or utopia so it's on our website you can google it which one did you choose uh clearly utopia okay just checking uh i do think there's dystopic elements but those will be societal choices we can go down certain paths and not go down others but there's a 25page explanation of that uh what what i would say is i'm sorry i've got your original question ubi is it coming is job displacement is it going are more jobs going to be displaced and what's the role of ubi so i address that question extensively in that paper and when what happens so what happens next 5 years what happens in the 2030s and what happens in the 2040s so i cover all this in this paper uh job displacement will happen uh in 2016 i uh wrote a paper on uh this i think it was in forbes or fortune i forget it was long 5,000word treaties on that i do a lot of writing and my view was ai will lead to uh great abundance great productivity growth great gdp growth everything economists love and increasing income disparity that was about 8 or 10 years ago um i wrote that piece and i do think we will have to deal with that issue through policy and that's why i think societies will make different choices in different countries it'll be a country bycountry choice of what we allow how do we plan to share the abundance more broadly i don't think the current capitalist system unmodified will work in that environment interesting so i always say i'm a techno optim optimist like other people but with care and caring care being on safety which is also going to be an issue and caring for those left behind thank you veno thank you uh how do you pronounce how do you pronounce your name properly nabiha nabiha thank you one of our portfolio companies yes it's great to see you venon thank you for supporting my journey it's been awesome um would love to get both of your thoughts on how space exploration and colonization is going to evolve with humanoid robots i'm getting pretty excited about it always wanted to be an astronaut that hasn't happened but how do you think this space is going to move in the next 3 to 5 years very cool oh yeah thanks um yeah we we wrote about this when we started the company sorry i wrote about it um space would be fantastic for humanoids it's just like such a pernicious place for humans uh think about like colonization exploring the stars like it'd be great to send like mechanical embodied agents out to the world and or out to the outer space and have them really help help us there and i think um i i think you start thinking about like really exciting future where we're like living off planet and how that how that would work um so i really hope like uh like even in the near term we're like helping to deploy robots there there was like there's been uh robots developed with nasa that are up on like iss and have been up before so uh there's like pretty good precedent here i think it's like a little bit all of this for me comes on like where is it on the adoption curve you're going to see robots first in the workforce in like vast numbers you're going to see them in the home and you're going to start seeing them in space and they're kind of like almost like not not quite sequentially but like you're going to happen to see them in certain places first um in higher quantities and over time this will all happen like like we'll have robots uh colonizing planets we'll have special purpose robots maybe helping out those uh fully autonomously on mars and the moon so um it's going to be extremely exciting it's going to take some time we got to like we got to work on this on the ground here on earth first but um we would love to play a part in that i don't know what you think so um i would agree with one caveat people think we have to go to the moon or space or mine asteroids to get resources that i don't think will be the reason we do it it'll be because we love to explore and and i think that'll be the reason to go to space i don't think sam would mind me telling this story i was just talking to sam and he asked me a question i hadn't thought about when will the first self-replicating ai probe leave planet earth and i said 15 years and his answer to me was "you're way too conservative." not something people call me very often so yeah it's fun fact amazing all right let's go to uh orland on zoom orland if you're there what's your question yes hello this is for brett so i'm in the into the i'm in the agricultural business so when should we expect the humanoids in agriculture like working in the farms under rain and sun was that working yeah so when do you expect to see humanoid robots working in the fields um in farming given you know all all weather conditions totally um i actually grew up on a farm like third generation corn and soybeans agriculture farm in illinois so uh it's kind of close to my heart uh so um i i think same same maybe like similar type of like through line as last response like uh robots will start indoors um it's better for like um ip like it's easier for like because of weather reasons other things uh and we'll start seeing robots from there go outside do there's tons of decent work outside we would love to do um i would say it gets harder there than probably indoors um all this is happening in the next like 10 years like we're seeing robots inside workforce outdoors we're seeing robots in the home hopefully we're seeing like some replicating robots out in space that'd be really cool uh to have that uh that's be incredible um so yeah so i i think like for us we're like focused right now on trying to get to 100,000 units shipped that's kind of like where our near-term goals like that we need we need like a certain amount of um like momentum here from the business to get start getting cost down data pipeline built uh and robots out in the world working fully autonomously with no human interventions um that for us will be indoors the next chapter in our book will be the home outdoors uh i think all that's happening in the next 10 years yeah i i would add the following i think in the next five years we will demonstrate robots can work in the farms um the capability will be there but there's a big difference as we talking this generally applies to all the technologies we are talking about when we demonstrate the capability when it has 1% penetration is when i consider the job done but there's a societal change matrix that can take a long time for full adoption uh but so keep that in mind with respect to all these technologies including farm robots it was about 13 years ago i had my two kids my two boys and i remember at that moment in time i made a decision to double down on my health uh without question i wanted to see their kids their grandkids and really you know during this extraordinary time where the space frontier and ai and crypto is all exploding it was like the most exciting time ever to be alive and i made a decision to double down on my health and i've done that in three key areas the first is going every year for a fountain upload you know fountain is one of the most advanced diagnostics and therapeutics companies i go there upload myself digitize myself about 200 gigabytes of data that the ai system is able to look at to catch disease at inception you know look for any cardiovascular any cancer any neurogenerative disease any metabolic disease these things are all going on all the time and you can prevent them if you can find them at inception so super important so fountain is one of my keys i make that available to the ceos of all my companies my family members cuz you know health is a new wealth uh but beyond that uh we are a collection of 40 trillion human cells and about another 100 trillion bacterial cells fungi vy and we you know don't understand how that impacts us and so i use a company and a product called viome and viome uh has a technology called metatanscripttoics it was actually developed uh in new mexico the same place where the nuclear bomb was developed as a biodefense weapon and their technology is able to help you understand what's going on in your body to understand which bacteria are producing which proteins and as a consequence of that what foods are your superfoods that are best for you to eat or what foods should you avoid right what's going on in your oral microbiome so i use their testing to understand my foods understand my medicines understand my supplements and biome really helps me understand from a biological and data standpoint what's best for me and then finally you know feeling good being intelligent moving well is critical but looking good when you look yourself in the mirror saying you know i feel great about life is so important right and so a product i use every day twice a day is called one skin developed by four incredible phd women that found this 10 amino acid peptide that's able to zap scenile cells in your skin and really help you stay youthful in your look and appearance so for me these are three technologies i love and i use all the time uh i'll have my team link to those in the show notes down below please check them out anyway hope you enjoyed that now back to the episode am uh thank you this is this is highly inspiring this is phenomenal um my moonshot is to advance uh the uh adoption of sustainable habitat for human beings all over the planet i have two questions one for each of you uh in terms of robotics do you currently or are you planning to have some kind of policy on military applications um where does that go because once you have humanoids i mean great question what's the second question for and the second question in terms of fusion and power grids and stuff like that if my moonshot is sustainable habitat for humanity um is there any thought given to what might happen if we have a solar flare or some kind of uh serious event that could wipe out grids as we have them today through massive emp or whatever how do we protect our future uh power grids from that i'll ask for short answers i want to try and get a few more questions in so i know you have a very clear answer on on yeah we won't do anything military related at all it's in our company mandate uh i wrote a line in 2022 uh i think it severely hurt the kind of civilian commercial market that we're we're in we always have like a little terminator vibe going on with humanoids so you really want to stay clear of that our mind and the market's much bigger on the non-military side benode uh fragile grid yeah um i've i've sort of already answered that between super hot geothermal which applies to most of the western united states and fusion large reactors small reactors i think we'll be in good shape we still have to build more transmission but my bet is we'll with energy becoming cheaper you'll be drilling tunnels under the ground protect yourself against um against that fantastic all right i'm going to go to cole on zoom and then we'll go to z next after that cole yeah brett um again under the purpose or under the general purpose guys i guess um one of the most common things that humans do are drive vehicles so it's a big ask to ask all agriculture and businesses to go to self-driving vehicles does figure plan to have these humanoids be able to drive a vehicle and do all those things that go along with that yeah one of my dreams is like have my robots fly an archer aircraft like that'd be we need pilots right pilot shortage um i think like one thing that veno did a good job on is there's this like there's like the ability for the robots to do it and demonstrate it and there's ability to do like actually integrate this into society at scale and where the focus lies um which is like those could be on different time scales so we can definitely show like a farming robot perhaps even a robot drive a car down the street or something like that um and then what we actually plan to do in terms of like where production is heading where the clients are at where we're shipping into um i listen on a long enough time frame i think this human robots will do everything a human can physically like i think yeah brett um your talk has been really inspiring and uh i was really excited about the future of humanoid robots and then i thought something really i thought about something quite disturbing which i wanted to ask your thoughts on so you see in the future um humanoids robots obviously going to be connected the grid right so what's stopping a malicious hacker um you know could um hacking the system and instead of making the robot do dishes it would it could in theory make the robot grab a knife and stab the you know their host to death during their sleep so that was um quite disturbing and you know i would love to you'd love to you'd love to experiment with no i'd love to hear your thoughts on how you prevent that sorry yeah no it's great it's like just just watched a blackmir episode and came in here what happens here um i listen i think one is like uh we treat like uh like cyber security local security on the robot um like extremely like extremely important to us we have a whole team around it um it's not like one solve here to say like oh we're going to do this and leave everything on like you know nonviol memory on firmware and it'll be fine uh but we also do that uh that will help um i think in general a robot doesn't need to be connected to a network so the helix video you saw of the robots in the kitchen doing it those are fully embedded uh neural net weight to live on gpu the robot wasn't actually connected to any network doesn't need to be connected to any network we can basically see through cameras we have battery power we can run those weights through a gpu on board and we can output actions and torqus through the motors so um so i i think in general like we ultimately want to make sure nobody can get like root access to like any kernels in the system uh we want to set everything uh in terms of like what the robot ultimately can never do in nonviol like memory on firmware which we do today so you want to think about it like ultimately comes down to like the robot ultimately can't like do certain certain actions command so trust him let's go to carti hey guys uh thank you so much for your wisdom brett uh you're a moonshot venture builder venode you're a moonshot investor uh similar to the question that's actually sitting up there voted up uh what's your what's your advice to moonshot vest uh uh ventures and their founders and their teams in terms of building a road map when the underlying technologies or even the convergence of the technology doesn't quite exist yet um you know i do believe companies are more successful if they raise in stages because it puts more pressure to achieve milestones the more comfortable you feel the less uh less you will explore the options and and look for better ways uh now you think that companies can be overc capitalized though and become lazy uh my experience i did this analysis a few years ago the less money a company raised the more likely it was we were to make more absolute dollars i'm not even talking about rates of return why because they spent a lot more time examining their assumptions and testing them in increments so this is very counterintuitive it's the opposite of the softbank strategy yes it's like a it's like stressing a vine to get a fine wine yeah you it's like stressing a wine to get fine wine detect problems early test everything um it's not to say you can't do it if you raise a lot of money and hopefully brad doing that uh but it generally tends to be people get complacent and complacency is the enemy of innovation yeah and i would say raising a lot of money early later to scale when you have a path that but there's time you need money to scale and that's when you need it mark thank you uh with all the money being invested in ai what's your thinking about the fact or the possibility that it becomes kind of a commoditized service as opposed to something for which people are willing to pay the amounts of money that is going into it don't listen to the press you read right if a multi- trillion dollar economy is to be created you're going to see massive opportunities take breaths opportunity if there's an industry larger than the auto industry in the relatively next two decades then it doesn't matter how much you invest uh you the the opportunity is large i would say the following with what i see in the market most investments most companies will lose money the vast majority maybe 80% but more money will be made than lost because of the uh exponential nature of the winner's outcome and and so by and large i believe press likes to write short-term headlines so you have to ignore them and focus on this is why i say i only care about 2030 i don't care about what the stock market's doing today it's largely irrelevant to 2030 is it a winner take all market i think this will be a fairly diversified market and there'll be many winners there'll be probably three four five in each area um with a power large distribution of outcomes uh but there will be more than one winner how many robot companies do you imagine i could see half a dozen given the size of the market probably less than the number of car companies today if i'm looking 20 years out brad how about you um i think kind of agree that there's it's not going to be it's kind of win or take most here it's like billions of dollars need to be invested uh you need to make it a very high rate which is manufacturing is very difficult you need to do a lot of data collection the robots are it's just a hard business you look at any deep tech group like you know ev tall like satellite or whatever you know space uh avs you just don't have a lot of groups out there that really make it and von's right 95% of all these go bankrupt through this whole process so it's just uh it's tough but you i would say a few let's go to one last question here y thanks peter this questions both to both venode and to brat the twin forces with critical healthcare worker shortages as well as three generations of boomers coming to the healthcare system yeah the robots we see primarily for social engagement purposes there's a question online about um working with elder loneliness my question is in regards to bedside care and direct patient uh care with invasive procedures for example nurses physical therapists occupational therapists uh speech therapists you see robots being a viable option in the future to replace humans can i can i twist a little bit do you see robot surgeons in the future being uh the baseline i i do yeah look healthcare expertise will be free in the next couple of years like well before 2030 interventional medicine so doing a cath procedure probably take a little bit longer in the biggest pole in that tent is the fda so i'd mentioned regulatory earlier so i expect we're more than 10 years away from a unsupervised robot surgery whether we are 15 or 20 years away depends on regulatory but i want to end on two ideas when we talk about technology development there's two things to worry about one is safety we haven't talked about it and i think in the next three to five years we will make massive leaps in the explanability of models so i suspect in two to three years you'll start to hear about this is no longer a black box no longer a parent all the stuff you hear the characteristic of our technologies is when you identify the problem somebody starts working on it and there's a real safety risk and really valuable people like yosha benjo or the people i respect and jeff hinton have surfaced the question of ai safety i think it's a real problem to worry about but i do believe the optimistic part of me says i'm already seeing business plans on explaining how these models are coming to their conclusion and so that will hopefully get solved so that's one on the caution side let me give you my most optimistic view of acceleration um whatever number of scientists we have on the i mean in america on the planet within five years we'll multiply that by 10 or 100x why because we will have ai chemists ai phd chemists ai physics biologist biologist physicists the acceleration ahead of us from ai expertise is not in the not only in the delivery of care like a doctor but in research where a ai scientist is doing hypothesis and then testing it themselves without needing any human uh intervention and it's 10 times cheaper and 100 times more abundant in the amount of research i don't think people have started to imagine that acceleration of science and technology it re it really is a uh a rapid intelligence explosion and science explosion and brett i imagine that we're going to see these ai models designing experiments the robots implementing them and running you know almost lights out 24/7 and accelerating all of this do you agree yeah listen like the both on the physical side of the world and the digital like these agents will do more and more of what we do that's what's the trend so that's a great optimistic let's end it there we're going to have science support the we'll science the out of all this stuff let's leave it that way give it up for benode and brett everybody hope you're enjoying this episode you know at this year's abundance summit raul pal and bill barheight predicted that the tokenization of assets will create an unprecedented amount of wealth growing from 3 trillion today to 100 trillion by 2034 you know that's more wealth than all the silicon valley billionaires russian oligarchs chinese tycoons and wall street you know bankers combined meanwhile venode kosla explained how ai will multiply our scientific capacity by 10x to 100x within 5 years these opportunities are way too big to miss i've compiled all the game-changing insights from this year's abundance summit into a comprehensive report you can download that free report at dmandis.com/breakthroughs and position yourself at the forefront of this wealth creation wave [Music]