Are you a football fan? Have you ever found yourself wondering what in the world was that refer? Well, Mike D the referee is here to help you. Join me on Whistle Talk as I talk to professionals on the field and in the booth to help you understand what is going on inside the mind of a football official. [Music] All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Whistle Talk. Mike D, the referee coming at you again one more time. Also tonight again is Mr. Daniel Chamberlain. Joining us again as we go through uh our NFHS rule book, still talking about rule two. This is a long two-part episode. uh after a long one-part episode of the first episode. Uh but tonight we got rule two part two like the old 90s movie Hot Shots part D. Daniel, welcome back. Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me. Oh, of course. Of course. Um, so where we left the last episode off, Daniel, I don't know if you remember, it's been about a week since uh we last talked, but but we uh we ended up with a conversation talking about uh forward progress, and I went on to the old uh the worldwide web, the old interweb, and uh we were on Facebook and threw the question out there to some people, and I I started going back and looking at case books and rule books and talking to some people, and I figured out my error. of my way. And and this is why I do these things because all us referees, all us officials, we we got to go back into the rule book every once in a while to correct ourselves. And I found myself kind of overanalyzing what we were discussing. Um so the scenario was to recap, a wide receiver catches the ball is the terms that we use, catches the ball and then is driven backwards and driven backwards out of bounds while still in the air. And we had talked about do they get full for forward progress in that scenario because in that scenario if it was in the end zone they would be getting forward progress especially if they were then driven out of the end zone out uh onto the playing field. So in our scenario, I had said I think that would be a forward progress scenario and I was incorrect in stating that um because the caveat to it is the receiver has not actually completed the catch. So and the terms that you and I used were the receiver catches the ball and while still in the air gets driven out of bounds and that term they didn't complete the catch. They didn't bring the ball all the way in to complete the catch. So, the force of them going out of bounds, even if driven out by the defender, that is going to be an incomplete pass on that, which in the back of my mind, I knew all along, but I started overanalyzing, overthinking it. Um, and I'm happy that I reached out to all all the listeners that are out there for their feedback, too. So, I just wanted to correct that before we started with uh part two. Uh, Daniel, does that help you out with uh what we had talked about? Because I know we kind of left that one a little vague. No, it does 100%. That was just one of those uh often we at the high school level fans, coaches, players get rule books mixed up, right? NFL versus high school versus collegiate and that was just one of those that was a weird circumstance. I didn't know how the NFHS came down with it. So, it it is good to know. Yep. And and this is one reason why I've I like having Daniel on the show here is getting that coach's point of view and asking those questions that back in my coaching days I used to think of and let me see what what I could figure out from here and he got me on that one and and I'm glad he did too because it's hopefully going to make me a better official in the long end and as Daniel likes to say hopefully it helps him be a better coach to weaponize the rules is the quote from him number of times weaponize here So, in tonight's episode, I'm going to share over my screen here. Tonight's episode, we're going to dive into rule two again. Um, as we've talked about before and, uh, just again, a quick introduction. So, if you missed our last episode, you'll find that we are talking about rule two, which is one of the biggest or most important rules, I should say, for us as officials because it's going over the definitions. And a lot of the definitions are things that that we kind of take for granted such as the term catch guilty. Um, and the rule book itself is in alphabetical order, but for what we're doing here, we kind of broke it up into how it applies to some of the other rules. So, tonight we're going to kind of see where our definitions kind of fall into play um with our other rules such as rule six, seven, eight, things like that. So, it's kind of broken up in that capacity. So, with that one, Daniel, I know we kind of hit on this one last week, but you want to start with our first one here? Sure. Uh, we'll talk about some encroachment tonight. So, encroachment in 2-8. Uh, this is a player illegally in the neutral zone following the ready for play. Look at that. I remembered an entire acronym. Uh, ready for play whistle and prior to the snap or free kick. Uh, dead ball foul. The ball is dead and stays dead. big difference for us versus it says the uh the NFL or NCAA. And then um it's stop going back here to the definition of a substitute. Entering a substitute is not considered a player until he's on his side, which is important to know. If you're running a guy on late and he's running from his player box, maybe into the red zone on defense, he has not encroached just because he's on the offensive side of the line. Um, I'm assuming a snap there though would make him offside. You could still catch him off sides in that scenario. Yes, if the play was eminent and they're running on the field, yeah, they would be off sides, but it wouldn't be an encroachment type of penalty. Yeah. Um, and again, You you had just mentioned it. Big difference between the NFL and NCAA rules is that as soon as a defensive player encroaches into that neutral zone, which is that imaginary line that is the length, the width of the football, I should say, because again, it depends on how that football may be placed on the ground, but it's that imaginary line that that sets our neutral zone. In the NCAA, they can reset themselves back as long as they're not in that neutral zone. Um, in NFHS, you cannot. Um, so that's going to be our encroachment penalty. That is a five-yard penalty. And again, it is a dead ball penalty. So, we as officials should kill that play and not even let the snap go off. Kill it. Clock should not run unless the clock is already running, but everything is dead at that point in time. Awesome. All right. So, shifts in motions. D 2-39, excuse me. Um, and this one is is an important one for the coaches out there because uh we kind of take this one in for granted, but a shift by definition is the actions of one or more offensive players who after the huddle or after taking set positions move to a new set position before the snap. Uh, for a shift to end, all the players need to come to a complete set. And it says here in the rule book for one second. Now, every different officiating crew is going to have their own liberties on what their 1 second is, but we want to make sure that there is a pause before the ball is snapped. Um, and again, this also includes breaking the huddle, sprinting out to the line of scrimmage, making sure everybody is set before the ball is snapped because you'll have a lot of times um with time running out and no timeouts where the team may break the huddle, get to the line super quick and then try to snap the ball and one of the re the receiver might not be set or that receiver goes in motion. Everybody has to be set first and then going in motion, the act of one player being in motion at the snap. Both shifts and motions are not fouls until the ball is snapped, which then cause them to become a foul. And again, we talk about this being simultaneous with the snap fouls. These are not going to kill the play. We are going to let these plays play out. Um because if you get an interception or a turnover, the defense by all intents and purposes can decline and now the defense gains possession of it. So Daniel, I I know that there are always instances with this on the coaching aspect. Are do you have any questions in these two plays? Um, no, I just want I one I'm glad that the way that I define shifts emotions is exactly how you do it. So there's no miscommunication on the sidelines when I say pregame. I say, "Hey, I use two shifts in a motion before I snap." So yes, obviously you got to do your job and watch, but it is very common for me to run two guys over here, three guys over there, and then a single so we can have that communication and that conversation before the game and we're on the same page. That I think that's wonderful. Um the only other thing is uh if you could just please tell my kids to quit moving when they're not supposed to. Um that would be a great job. All right, if you're on Coach Chamberlain's team, stop moving. There we go. Um, so back in my coaching days, I used to actually have a uh a pre- snap shift for for my offense where we back in dating myself, we all hand signals for our our play calls, I used to do an old school stick shift for for a car. So I used to get a shift and that gave my players and and they they love this. They could line up wherever they wanted to. So, I would say shift to split using a splitback scenario. They would come out lined up as five receivers and like I have a true fullback, 240lb fullback who's lined up as an ex receiver all the way out wide because they thought that was cool. Yeah. And the defense would come out like, "What the heck's going on?" And then we would shift and get into our splitback formation or we would start in a splitback formation and shift to an empty set. Um, but I I let them line up wherever the heck they wanted to line up five receivers on one side, but then we shifted to where we need to be and now let the defense compensate from that. But that is multiple people moving prior to the snap and getting set. And we practiced it and then we would have, like you talked about, we would have a a shift and then a motion. So we would shift and then have the Z receiver come in zip motion or Zin motion, different terms that we use, Zin or whatever it is. Um, but we had to make sure that everybody was paused before we started that motion. And for my coaches out there, please, please, please emphasize to your quarterbacks to make sure everybody is set before they kick the person in motion because that is one of the biggest things, especially at the youth levels, your JV, varsity, uh, JV and freshman games. We're going to give a number of verbal warnings, but at the varsity level, you can't have your lineman snapping down onto going down to the three-point stance while kicking a receiver in motion. That's two men in motion. That is an illegal motion penalty. So, please just make sure that the quarterback gets everybody set because typically it's going to be on the quarterback. That's uh that's not one I would have thought about is my lineman just putting their hands down. So, yep. that technically that that would be a shift when the lineman snaps their hand down or going the old school Dallas the snap down one which we will talk about at a later date which is fun in itself. All right, so formations here 2-14 um basically here we're going to talk about you need to have a minimum of 5A players legally on their line at the snap. This is for all scrimmage formations. Okay. So, we're looking and the simple thing you'll see are the the side the short wings giving a punchback type of signal. And again, each state mechanically is a little bit different. Here in New Jersey, we're holding that punch back. Um, some states you'll see them punching forward saying that that that outside receiver is on the line of scrimmage. Here in New Jersey, we don't do that mechanic, but if you ever watch me doing it, I'm pointing to the ground so that receiver knows where they are or I'm punching them back. So, we want to make sure that we have the proper number of people legally at the at the line before the snap. Um, so it's saying a minimum of five players legally on their line at the snap. Illegally, you cannot have more than four players in the back field. So, if you're playing with nine players on the field for whatever reason, this is where that scenario will come into play because at least five of them must be on the line of scrimmage. So, it's not common, but typically you're going to see seven people on the line of scrimmage. Scrimmage. So, there's no rule that says seven have to be on the line. There's a rule that says five, and there's a rule that says no more than four off the line. Therefore, the difference is seven. I mean, you got to have those seven. Okay. And you can, and here's another little tip for you. Running a hurry up where you're looking to kill the ball, where you're going uh dirt or whatever it is, kill, kill, kill, and your quarterback's going to spike it into the ground. Have everybody line up on the line of scrimmage. Yeah, we use that being spiked. Yeah, we we use that because that way you know for sure you don't have too many in the back field. Correct. And that one, unfortunately, we have hit teams on and it's a drive killer. And if you're doing that under the two minutes, it actually can really hurt you because now we're going to give the offended team an option or yeah, the offended team an option of winding the clock in certain scenarios. So, it's one you want to make sure of because some officials could mess that one up. Um, our scrimmage kick formation, no player set to receive a hand-to-hand snap and either a player with their knee on the ground seven yards back, known as the holder and the kicker, or a player in position to receive a snap 10 yards plus back. So, a punter. So, those are going to be our our scrimmage kick formations. So those ones they they come into play because with these particular formations we have numbering allocations that we're allowed to kind of deviate from and allow the teams to deviate from. So you can't be in a scrimmage kick formation um say well you you can't be in a regular formation w with number 12 being your guard um and being covered up. You have to have a certain amount of ineligible numbers on the line of scrimmage. Does that make sense? It does. All right. Uh and the last one here now is your free kick formation. This is going to be basically your your kickoffs and following the ready for play until the ball is kicked. The R must have all of their players behind their kick line, their free kick line, which typically is the 50 yard line. Um K the kicking team must have all of their players with the exception of the kicker inside five yards from the kicking line of scrimmage from the kicking line. So with I'm the umpire. That's my position. I'm going to be behind the kicker. I'm making sure that everybody is within that five yard spot because we have had teams where they have all 11 inside that area. Now you could have a fake kicker. Yeah, you can't have a fake kicker if you have a kicker seven yards back and then somebody who's three yards comes up and kicks an onside kick. So that's where it has to be distinguished from. Also with this, you cannot have more than six players on one side of the kicker. So you can have six kicker four, four kicker six, five kicker five. You cannot do a true overload for an on-site kick and have all 10 people on one side of the ball and then the kicker. So, those are kind of some of the things that we're looking for. How does motion work with these kicking formations? Can I send a guy in motion? Can he be approaching the line of scrimmage since we already have kind of weird rules here? So, in a free kick formation, they can approach the line of scrimmage because that's just your normal kickoff. So, we haven't gotten to the point where you have to be down into the three-point stance like you're seeing in the professional leagues or anything like that. So you can start approaching and again we're going to give a little bit of leniency on are they encroaching the line of scrimmage before the ball is kicked. If it's an onside kick situation we're really going to bear down on it. But if it's just a regular free kick situation we're going to give a little grace area in that. As for motions, just as long as when the ball is kicked you still meet the requirements of six kicker four, you can have somebody coming behind the kicker. Um, so if you want to do that onside kick and you're lined up with six kick, six players to the kicker's right, you can kind of sneak that from the four side, but he has to still be on the left side of the kicker when the ball is kicked, right? But he can be full sprint motion ready to go. Absolutely. To add numbers. Yep. I love knowing the rules. It's wild. Yeah. Just make sure that they haven't haven't crossed. And it it the one odd one is is if you have a sidewinder kicker. Now, obviously when they kick the ball, they're at the ball, but if they're completely off to the side, usually they're taking their normal steps back and then to the side. Make sure that they're not passing the kicker before it's kicked. With scrimmage kick formation, sometimes people just drop their quarterback back and just do a, you know, quarterback punt. Is that formation technically an offensive formation or is it deemed a kicking formation? Because I know the numbers get kind of and he's he's only at seven yards taking it to punt it. Does that make it an offensive formation? It is an offensive formation and and a lot of this is going to come into play when you get into roughing the kicker and different things like that or roughing the snapper because if they're not in a free kick or a scrimmage kick formation, yeah, the center is a you line up in a in in an odd front and you got somebody covering the center and the quarterback's at seven yards, that that center's free game. Um, but if they're back behind 10 or somebody is down on a knee, which the graphics here, I show a traditional punt formation in the top right, the traditional extra point field goal formation, and then your your kickoff formations. Um, this is where your protections come into play depending upon where that that kicker is going to be lined up or holder depending upon the scenario. Awesome. All right, Daniel, I'm gonna let you take this one because this one's a fun one. Yeah, we're talking force here. Um, like plays and touchbacks. Yeah, the force. Let the force be with you. Uh, result of energy exerted by player which provides movement of the ball. Force only used in connection with goal line. Excuse me. Force only used in connection with goal line and forcing the ball from field to play into end zone. Initial force carry, fumble, kick, pass or snap. A new force defined as bat, illegal kick, muff must be applied to kick, fumble, backwards pass that has been grounded. I remember we talked about grounded last week. Yep. And then responsibility for force. Player who supplies initial force unless new force is applied. Boy, that's going to be fun. All right. Yeah. So, now explain that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, honestly, I I I studied a lot of physics, so it 100% makes sense to me. But, you know, it's a player moving a ball in a direction and then we're going to get into, like you said, when when we're if you force it into the end zone on a kick, on a punt, whatever. Right. That's kind of where we're going is is is who's doing the forcing. Correct. So ball is snapped over a punter's head. They're punting from their own 25 yardd line. The ball's snapped over the punter's head and the ball's rolling around on the ground at the 5 yardd line and the punter comes back and kicks the ball off the ground out of the back of the end zone. What do you got? I know why he's doing it. He's doing it to get a touchback. I mean, I'm sorry, a safety to only give up two points and then he still gets to punt anyway on a safety kick. I'm assuming he's going to get a penalty and the defense is going to take over the ball in that vicinity. Maybe a touchdown. Good guesses, but incorrect. Okay, your first guess was actually more the correct one, but now you could possibly add a penalty for an illegal kick into that scenario, too, to possibly tack on. Um, so that's where it is going to come into play now. And the same thing's going to happen if the if the ball was snapped over the punter's head into the end zone and the kicker kicks the ball out of the back of the end zone. Well, you're gonna get a safety out of it where if the defense or or the receiving team were to jump on the ball as it's rolling around in the back of the end zone, it could be a touchdown. So, this is why some of the kickers will will take that chance of trying to kick it out of the back of the end zone to get the safety, but it is still also an illegal kick. Um, but that kick went out of the end zone is creating a new force now. It wasn't the initial snap, fumble, kick, pass, or snap. So, it's creating a different one. Um, consequently, now ball snapped over the punter's head and now I'm on the return team. I'm going to block the kick. So, now I see it goes over the punter's head and it's rolling around on the ground and I now smack that ball forward purposeful into the end zone. What do you think we're going to have there? Is it going to be a touchdown if I then jump on it? I imagine it's dead where he touched it. Like a non Is it dead where the I don't know. I don't know. So, this is where first first touching is going to come into play. So, it's not dead just yet because technically the kicking team can still scoop that ball up in the end zone and if that kid is good, they can take off and go and get a first down or a touchdown the opposite direction. So um this is where the new force was now applied. So this is where force comes in because now we created that batting motion going in that direction. It created a new force. So we got to figure out who's responsible for the force. So this is going to be another one of those plays where you're going to see us officials kind of come together and talk this one over to make sure that we have it. And we're going to dive into this one. As you could see on the next slide here, we're going to really really go into more depth on this in rule eight. Um, but this one talking about your muffs, your your batted balls, different things like that. We got to figure out who supplied that initial force. And that's going to be the key one of really knowing where did that force come from. Was it a new force? Who was responsible for making that force? Um, and again, rule eight. So stay tuned. couple weeks from now, we'll be going over rule eight. Um is going to really really dive into this. So muffing or batting a pass, kick or fumble in flight is not considered a new force. Force is not a factor when K and when a kickoff, let me rewind. Force is not a factor when the kicks into R's end zone. Okay, these are always touchbacks. So regardless of who made the force. So in the high school rule, kick that goes into the end zone, it's going to be a touchback. Force is not a factor when there is a backward pass or fumble is declared dead in the end zone of the opponent by the player who passed or fumbled with no player possession. We're going to dive into that one again in rule eight, but we're going to have touchdowns going on here where nobody jumps on the ball. Going to possibly see some touchdowns. And I actually had this one on a punt in a JV game. So, it's quite interesting. Everybody kind of looked at me and I'm like, "Touchdown, guys. Nobody did anything." This is I feel like kind of where we're headed with this as well. And I know once again, it's not the NFL. And I don't want to keep going back, but the most hated rule in the NFL is my running back is headed for the pylon. He dives for the pylon. He fumbles. It goes into the end zone out of bounds. and now it's a touchback for the defense and they get the ball at the 20 25 whatever the touchback rule is in the NFL nowadays. That's like the most hated rule in the NFL because I'm simply trying to make an athletic play. The ball came out, I gave away a possession, it's basically it's a turnover. Yes, it is. But if the defense had been the one that applied that force instead of the offense, then it would have been a safety, right? because now they have batted it into their own end zone. So, I don't want to get too much in the weeds, but but force matters is what I'm really trying to say. Who makes the ball move in that direction is basically or we we we're gaining possession a little bit, right? Like it's almost like you've gained possession and performed a move with this force in in essence. Yeah. But to go back to what you were just stating, if I'm a defensive guy and I come from behind the ball carrier who doesn't see me and I punch the ball out of their arm, that that that blind person coming through and just punching that ball out and that ball goes through the end zone and out of the end zone, that's still going to be the defense's ball in that scenario. So yeah, and that that is one of those quirky rules that still is in play in the NFHS all the way through. We are now getting to a point though NFHS one of the rule changes this coming year is a forward fumble out of bounds excluding endzone right now but a forward fumble out of bounds is going to go back to where the ball was fumbled. So we're going to beag that spot and it is going to be brought back because it used to be if I fumbled it forward and it went out of bounds beyond the yard to the the line for gain it's a first down. Yeah. So you would see some people kind of like, "Oh, whoops. I fumbled it." But they didn't really. So So that does go into effect this year. This season that will be in effect. Correct. Fumbling forward for the first down. That's sad. Only if it's out of bounds because if it's inbounds, it's still it's then whoever recovers it, right? Yeah. It's going to be fun. All right. So definitions for rule nine which is talks about the conduct of players and others including us coaches as I say us because I'm still coaching the youth levels too myself. Uh but uh rule nine talks about conduct. Then we're going to talk about batting which is the intentional slapping or striking of a ball with an arm or a hand. Kind of basic. I understand that one. Um fighting an attempt by a player or non-player. God help us. if it's a coach throwing a swing at somebody. Woody Hayes is no longer around. Um, but a non-player to strike or engage a player or a non-player in a combative matter unrelated to football. Um, this one's a fun one that that I like to talk about because I just brought up unintentional the punching of the ball out. I'm sure Daniel as a coach you've seen some people coming into a pile and you've seen that arm swinging back in a fist. Um, Peanut Tilman was awesome at it from the Chicago Bears, the defensive back from the Chicago Bears of just diving in and making the tackle, but always having that one closed fist. They weren't looking to punch somebody because ladies and gentlemen that are out there, I don't know if you've ever punched an individual wearing a hard shelled helmet, but it's a pretty stupid idea. Yeah. Cuz it's not going to hurt the person. fight and punch in the face mask. Um, so it it's something we we do look for and like it it takes another level of stupidity at times to throw a punch in a football game with the helmets on, but when you hear the coaches screaming, he punched him. Well, was he punching the ball and missed? Like, we're we're going to kind of give a little bit of leniency there, but we got to get a feel for how the game is going, too. So, that's one of those judgment calls where all right, if I know that Daniel Chamberlain is a dirty player and he's diving into a pile and I just see him take a liberty and just back and then lay into a punch. Well, that's one thing as opposed to I see Daniel diving in with his arm already back trying to pop that ball out. That's going to be two different scenarios there. So, one could be deemed fighting, the other one is just trying to force a turnover. Um, and then 2-24 is illegal helmet contact. Spearing and targeting are going to be your two biggest ones in this scenario. A, and spearing, we've kind of seen a pretty good job of that kind of making its way out of the game. Um, because of neck injuries and stuff like that, people are kind of a little bit more conscious of it. You don't hear of a spearing penalty anymore. you're going to hear of the targeting where somebody is lowering the crown of their helmet and really trying to go for it in essence. So the targeting can be with the crown of the helmet, but it's also, and this is where your NCA rules come into play, it can be for forearm, shoulders, different things like that where you're kind of going after the person above the shoulder pads. basically looking to make a helmet to helmet or forearm to helmet type of hit. So, that one we are looking to get rid of because that is the concussion stuff that we've been seeing all over the place. Any questions on these? Nope. They're uh butt blocking is that's a good one, but no, it's good. Ask Jet fans about butt plays. So, uh, yeah. Yeah. I feel sorry for you Nor Easterners having to watch all that. Easy now. All right, Daniel, you want to take blocking here? Of course. Blocking obstructing an opponent by contacting him with any part of the blocker's body. Legal techniques are listed in 232. can't lock hands or swing arms or elbows or initiate contact above the shoulder. Uh and then we will read through those for reference. Yeah. Blocking below the waist, making initial contact below the waist from the front or side against an opponent other than a runner. A chop. Can you comb I'm sorry to interrupt. Can you tackle the runner below the waist from the side? Absolutely. Or from behind. Yeah, chop block. Uh, combination block by two or more teammates against an opponent other than the runner where one is below the waist and one is above the waist. So, that one's really interesting because, you know, we were kind of taught a chop block is basically you're just diving at the knee of a defender to eliminate him. I mean, you're blocking him by taking his wheels away. I seeing this definition having to be a combo makes it very different. And this is where a lot of teams will get in trouble between the two. So your your cut block is what I kind of refer to it more often where I'm directly going out and and shooting for the shins of the defender right away. And we're going to talk about that in the upcoming slide. Uh where it's immediate and right at the line of scrimmage. Your chop block by definition involves two players basically on one. Um so where you're going to get this a lot of times is on your backside scoop blocks and things like that. Um where one defender is trying to work up to a linebacker and they've basically kind of arm barred to keep the the defender back so that their teammate can overtake them. But where that teammate now where I'm making contact with you and now that teammate comes and cut blocks them. Now we've got two points of contact, one high, one low. And that is where your chop block's going to come in. And that's a 15 yarder. And that's me as an umpire. That is one of my primary things that I am looking for right away. I'm looking for that. Um, your old triple option teams, your old flex bone teams and stuff like that. We used to cut backside all the time and we used to teach our offensive lineman that they were basically kind of running a circle like a defensive end of dropping their shoulder so that their initial move was to avoid contact so that our backside guard or backside tackle could cut block. So an example my backside tackle was cut blocking a three-ete when we were running veer to the opposite side. Well, that is now illegal because in order for me to get there, I would have to take more than one step and it wasn't initial at the snap. But to avoid the chop block, we were teaching them, okay, you're dipping your shoulder as you're working your way up to the linebacker. Do not even extend that arm. Do not make contact with that three tech. And that's why you would see your old flexbow teams having really obnoxiously wide splits and being back off the line of scrimmage, which we talked about last week, of your depth. The helmet has to be at least to the waistband of the center. Well, that's those teams that are doing those backside cuts or the counters and stuff like that. They're trying to get more depth to clear that center. So that's where your chop block's going to come into play when it's two or more players that are basically this is your high low. So your blocking two-3, your interlock blocking is where one player grasp or encircles a teammate while blocking. Um you used to see this on kickoff returns where setting the wall and you'd interlock arms. It it doesn't really happen now um too often. your blind side block against an opponent who does not see the blocker approaching. So, we've actually gone through and there's a one of my earliest episodes is about your blind side blocks and your peel back blocks and NFL has made millions upon millions of dollars putting out videos and DVDs of this block back in the day of people getting blown up completely blindsided. Um, basically the defender has to be able to see you coming and the contact can't be forcible with the shoulders if they are open hands or in essence setting a basketball pick. If the person doesn't see you and you're doing that, you'll be okay. Um, but it's that blow up block, that old school peel back block that is what they're they've taken out of the game. Um, clipping is blocking in the back against an opponent where um, the initial contact is from behind and it is at or below the waist. So, there is a difference between your block in the back and your clipping because your clipping is going to be low where you're basically undercutting at the knees. Your block in the back is going to be where your initial contact is inside the shoulders below the helmet but above the waist. So, one of them's a 15 yard penalty. Your block in the back is going to be a 10 yard penalty. Wonderful. Now, here's where our fun starts with our free blocking zone. All right, your free blocking zone is basically four yards on either side of the ball and three yards on either side of the line of scrimmage. And in the graphic you see here, you basically see a double tight end formation. So you got two ends, two tackles, two guards, your center. We're going to consider all them inside the free blocking zone. If they are taking normalsiz splits, if they are taking those four to five yard splits, um well, they're not going to the tight ends are no longer going to be in the free blocking zone. And then three yards on either side of the line of scrimmage. So basically, if your linebackers are lined up kind of in a in a bunched formation, they're going to be in the free blocking zone. And the reason why we need to know this is because plays such as counter, what is counter doing? Counter is looking to get the linebackers going in one direction and then having to backtrack another direction. Well, if you have your back to me and I'm a tackle that's coming out a down block for counter coming my way and I make contact in your back, if I'm in the free blocking zone, that's legal. That's fine. So, it's not a block in the back. If I were to do that to say the safety in this graphic, which is about seven to eight yards back, that's going to be your block in the back. So, that's where your free blocking zone is. So you get a little bit more liberties inside the free blocking zone, hence the name, you do outside of it. The free blocking zone disintegrates once the ball has left the zone. So if it is a toss sweep or the quarterback takes the ball and swing pass right away to a little bubble screen, well that free blocking zone is now gone. Also, and this is the caveat that a lot of people don't understand, Daniel, where are you under center or in shotgun in your offensive formations? Are you asking what's your question? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, I worded that correctly. Where are you typically in your offensive formations? Under center or in shotgun? Oh, gotcha. Uh, yeah, we we stay in the shotgun a lot of times. How deep is your quarterback? I try to tell him toes at five. Toes at five. Is toes at five inside three yards from the line of scrimmage? No. So, as soon as I snap the ball, it disintegrates in essence. Now, we're going to we're going to give a couple of liberties here with it, but in essence, that is part of it. So, the rule was and now going back to your previous question about cut blocks. I can cut block in the free blocking zone as long as it is immediate and initial to the person that is directly in front of me and they are considered on the line of scrimmage. And it used to be probably about four to five years ago that if we were in a shotgun formation, you couldn't cut block anybody. Same thing was if you were in a two-point stance, if you were an offensive team that was in two-point stances only, you couldn't block cut block anybody. If that motion is immediate and initial right at the snap, you're good to go for that straight cut block. And when you talk about that, you're going to see that on toss sweeps. You're going to see that on the quick passing game where they're looking to get the defensive lineman's hands to the ground for that half second so that they can get the play off or get outside them. But anything other than that, we're going to we're probably going to hit the offense for a a block below the waist. Um clipping penalty possibly or a block in the back. So, any questions on that one? Uh, nope. No, it's not. Nope. No questions. All right. And this is what we just talked about talking about you're blocking below the waist and you're blocking in the back. And as you can see, they are permitted in the free blocking zone when all involved players are on the line of scrimmage. So, you're block below the waist, your cut block. The contact is in the free blocking zone and the block is immediate and initial. And the blocking in the back is permitted in the free blocking zone. home and an offensive lineman who is on the line of scrimmage and in the free blocking zone at the snap. So, your slot receiver cannot come down and crack back on that middle linebacker even though that middle linebacker is in the free blocking zone, that receiver was not. So, they can't come down and make that block in the back uh against a defensive player who are who are in the they are permitted when the defensive player is in that area at the snap. So again, can't do that on a safety who's deeper. And the contact happens in the free blocking zone. So that's where all those things come to. And this is before it disintegrates. It's gone. Presto. Um, so our next one is dealing with free blocking zone and how far is four yards. This is kind of just a little rule for that we're kind of giving ourselves as officials. Um, if the ball's on the hash, I'm kind of looking to halfway to the numbers to where that initial goal post is, right? If the ball's on a goalpost, I'm probably going hash to the center of the goalpost. Um, so it kind of just gives us little landmarks that we could use because not only, and on the previous slide, it mentioned it for your cut blocks and things like that, but now also for your intentional grounding rule. So, we want to just kind of have little landmarks where in in the flow of the game, as an umpire, I have to know where I'm resetting the ball each time. But now, I can go to my referee and say, "Hey, he was outside the free blocking zone. Was there a receiver in the area? We may have intentional grounding on that play." Nice. So, this kind of gives us some generalized rules of what four yards are because we're not going out there with a tape measure and measuring off that. Okay. And there again, you see some graphics here of our free blocking zone. So, up top, top left, Daniel, check out how wide these splits are. I mean, those are, you know, three- foot splits. Yeah. Three to four. So, they're they're kind of pushing it. Now the where now the initial five linemen in this visual here. They're good. You now add a tight end who's in that one. That one we're probably not going to consider in the free blocking zone. Absolutely. On the bottom you could see your tight end here to the right side of the screen. And we got a we got motion going on. Possibly a shift. I don't know when the ball's getting snapped, but this one this tight end is going to be considered in the free blocking zone. And then the one to the right and I heard I don't know if this is rumor. I heard today they may be banning the tush push in the NFL game. I don't know if it's true or not, but that's your your tush push formation there. Um, can we can we go back real quick? I I know we talked about people within that three yards. So that number seven, the guy the kid in motion in the bottom left, let's just say he comes to a stop there. He is then in the free blocking zone. So if he cuts, he's fine. or is he too wide now? He not only is he too wide, but he's also off the line of scrimmage. So, it has to be from the line of scrimmage. Three yards. And I think it said if any body any part of their body is within that three yards, that makes them in the zone, right? All players involved are on the line of scrimmage. So that's the other part of it that is vitally important because um and this goes for offense and defense too. So we got to understand that the defensive player can't undercut a guard that's pulling to try to kick somebody out or to set counter um with that because of where their alignment may be initially. So if it's a linebacker outside of the box and they got to be at the line of scrimmage and it has to be initial. Okay. Too easy. All right, Daniel, I'll give you a couple. Mike, I know you've you've Yeah, you've gone through a couple in a row here. Uh, player actions rule nine definitions. So, hurdling 2-22, an attempt by a player to jump with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet. I have questions here. So back in the day when you just fullback dive and you jump the the crap at the one yard line to get into the end zone, is that outlawed now? Is that a foul because you hurdled your opponents? When you're diving over the top like Walter Payton used to do. Yeah. We're not considering that hurdling. And that's why you need to lead with your knees. The knees have to be foremost. So if I do a barrel roll, I'm good. Or some if you do if you do an Antonio Brown trying to hurdle over the punter, that is no good. Yeah. Yeah. He did not hurdle well enough. Uh participation 2-30. Any act or action by a player or non-player that has influence on the play. Tripping. Intentional use of lower leg or foot to obstruct an opponent's below the knee not legal against any opponents including the runners. This you asked me last week. Can you trip someone to make a tackle? And the answer is no. That would be a tripping foul. Correct. Now I want to go back up to participation because this one is a is a very very big one and we actually had a controversy here not only in New Jersey but in my association, my my local chapter. Illegal participation is a 15yard penalty. Illegal substitution is a five-yard penalty. Any action by a player or non-player that influences the play. So, we had a scenario at the end of the game and it it went back and forth and this was actually very highly debated and contested even after the fact, too. Um, it was a field goal that was blocked. Your um your internet's acting up here, Mike. I hope you can hear me. I can hear you. Am I back? Uh I maybe you're back now. So you got me. It looks like you're back. Yep. Uh so you just start back at the beginning of that story and then you'll be good, I think. Okay. So, we had a scenario in my not only the state of New Jersey, but in my local chapter here in which we had a field goal attempt at the end of the game where there were a couple of penalties kind of back to back to back for either an encroachment um a false start. No, I'm sorry. It it was two encroachment penalties. I'm trying to remember the scenario um that the play shouldn't have gone off, but then the kick was blocked and then returned for an apparent game-winning touchdown and the team that blocked it was celebrating as they were coming onto the field. So you kind of had almost like a Cal band type of scenario where the teams were running out onto the field to celebrate and the penalty was thrown for an illegal participation and it came back from the state. It should have been called an illegal substitution because the players that ran onto the field to celebrate, well, the return was happening on the far side of the field. So they didn't have any influence on the play. So, this is something that went back and forth um because it ended up costing a team a victory and if I remember correctly, it may have knocked them out of the playoff contention too. So, it was a very highly contested and and controversial play here. So, it is something that I I want to touch on um just to make sure that this is the action by a player or non-player because again it could be a coach that has an influence on the play itself. So, just wanted to touch on that one. So, if you're Madden and you trip a player running down the field, so that will have an influence on the play. That absolutely is illegal participation by the coach. Yes. Yes, sir. Well, that's good that they uh differentiate because if you aren't going to affect the play anyways, you're just an illegal substitute. You just shouldn't be out there. Stay off the field. But if you run out and get in the way of a guy who could make the tackle now, you've obvious excuse me, you've obviously uh caused more of an issue. So, that's good. 100%. And that's and that's where our debate went back and forth for for quite a while actually with this one. So, was that supposed to be given after the touchdown? Does it bring it back for the extra point or it just stops the touchdown? I I don't want to because I I'm mixing the scenario up and how it all played out. So, I don't want to give you an answer on that one because I don't want to be with a Yeah, I'll Google it. I I'll definitely send it to you. I've got a clip of it and we'll we'll talk about it. Um, all right. So, play types for penalty enforcement 2-33. So, now when we get into penalty enforcement, we're talking about um rules 9 and 10. And and in the past year, we've had some modifications to this to kind of make it a little bit easier for everybody, especially the offensive team when it comes to say your holding penalty where we're going to talk about the enforcement of it. Um but one question that we're always going to talk about is is it a loose ball play or is it a running play? And a loose ball play is the action during a kick, your free kick or scrimmage kick. A legal forward pass where basically the ball is in the air. A backward pass, fumble, where nobody has possession of the ball. A backward pass um your your screen pass technically for that half second the ball is in the air is is going to be a loose ball. Or a run or runs that are preceding any of the above. And I'll get to what this all means in a moment. And then your running play is any action that's not included in above included the related run on a loose ball action following a backwards pass, illegal kick, fumble, or fumble by a beyond a neutral zone. Um, and where this really comes into play now is when we're talking about our our spots. But let me backtrack here. So basically, unless you're getting that direct hand-to-hand hand off from the center to the quarterback and the quarterback to the running back, that's your running play. You can have a running play where you get that hand and the quarterback goes back to drop back for a pass. That's a running play. Now they throw the ball. Now you've got a loose ball. Now a receiver catches the ball. And again, catch. This one is where the catch is completed. So the catch now you've got to run another running play. So this is where we need to determine where was the ball when the penalty incurred. Was it during a loose ball? Was it during the running play? Because when you're talking about a running play, especially when you're talking about um defensive pass interference, it's not pass interference until the ball's in the air. So that's that's going to be a big one because now that is technically a running play until they throw the ball because now then it'll become the loose ball play. So we need to know when did that occur. We can have defensive holding if it happened before or or or something like that. So you still can have defensive holding in that scenario, but it wouldn't be defensive pass interference. So this is where we need to make sure to determine which and where it was and when it happened. So, these are key elements that we're again, you're going to see us huddling up. Okay, when did you have it? A lot of times, this is going to happen on our kick plays, and we're going to talk about that in our later chapters talking about um your kick type of scenarios, your postgrim kick scenarios and things like that. So, a lot of times as coaches, you're not going to need to know this, but as us as officials, we're going to need to know this and then to go over to you and explain it to you. That sounds fun. Oh, yeah. Aren't you glad you jumped on again? Always, man. Honestly, always. I'm I'm taking things right now and making a weapon out of it. It's good. All right, so our spots. Uh the basic spot is is the spot from where the ball is on the field. That one seems kind of kind of easy. Uh important note that the spots have to be two-part. there is going to be a lateral position on the field between basically your hash marks and then the line of the spot. So me as the umpire, I'm the one that is spotting the ball and I'm looking to my short wings to get where I'm going to spot the ball for the yard line. Uh but I need to pay attention to where the lateral position is. And this is where our finger bracelets come into play where we have little rubber band type things around our fingers and stuff like that. It's not only telling me what down it is, but if we have an incomplete pass, I know where I'm replacing that ball. Not only from the yard marker, but if you snap the ball from the right hash and you threw the ball incomplete to the left hash, I'm not spotting the ball on the left hash. I'm going back to the right hash because that's where the previous spot was for an incomplete pass. This does come into play a lot more than people think when you're talking about penalty enforcement because we need to know where did that penalty occur. Is it a spot of the foul type of penalty or was it from the previous mark? So, we need to understand and know where those things are. And there are times where I've caught myself and I'm like, damn, I re I spotted that in the wrong spot laterally and I've caught myself and it's one of those things where I go back and film and and take a look to make sure that okay, yeah, I screwed that one up or no. Okay, I got that one right. All right, Daniel, you want to take this one? Yep. Yep. types of spots here. So, the previous spot where the ball was last snapped or free kicked. Dead ball spot spot a foremost point of ball when it becomes dead. Uh exemption, excuse me, yawn there. Uh excuse me, exception. A ball touching the goal line plane is in the end zone even if foremost point is in field of play. Out of bounds spot where the ball becomes dead after going out of bounds. A succeeding spot. So secedings. Yep. Good one. Uh where the ball would be next snapped or kicked be secession. So seceding spot. Secing spot. But you are not in the minority when you say succeeding spot because it gets tossed around 50/50. I'm sure it does. Yes. Where where the ball would be snapped on the next play, the succeeding spot. Um there we go. Oh, um, there we go. Uh, your inbound spot. Oh, go ahead. Yep. Yeah. So, this one we kind of just talked about your inbound spot, the foremost point of the ball where it becomes dead. And this is your forward progress. So, ball carrier running the ball up the middle gets stopped and driven back. That wing guy is going to give them their foremost point of where the ball was, where they became dead or the play ended. Um, and the end of the run is where the ball becomes dead in the player's possession. If the player loses possession, um, so now you got a running play followed by a loose ball play, well, the related run continues until the ball is dead or a new possession is gained. So that could be by a wide receiver on the same team or a defensive player. And now the spot of the catcher recovery, um, when the momentum rule is in effect. Uh, this one is again, we're going to get on that. We're going to talk about force and momentum, but basically uh a punt returner, for example, uh backtracking on a a ball punted over their head and they're backtracking and they catch the ball on the three yard line and they their momentum takes them into the end zone and then they come back out. So things like that, we need to know where the end of the run was. Gotcha. All right. types of spots when it comes now to our fouls. You want to take this one? Yeah. Spot a foul, where the foul occurs. A basic spot, point of reference for penalty enforcement. Enforcement spot, spot from which penalty is actually enforced. Post scrimmage kick spot where the kick ends. Important for PSK. Yeah, post scrimmage kick. Post scrim. Oh, okay. Okay. Enforcement for fouls by the returning team during a scrimmage kick. Post scrimmage. Okay. So, we're going to dive into post scrimmage kicks in a later chapter where there are criteria that must be met for it to be considered a postcrimmage kick type of foul. Um, so it it it's it's dicey. It's not common at all. But if you think of a scenario where if you've ever been the defensive team and there was a penalty on a punt and all of a sudden the team now gets a first down and you're like well wait a minute how come we just didn't replay the down or something like that or how come we can't just tack that on to the end. This this is where our PSK rules are going to come into play of do we want to tack it on? Is it an addition to is it so all of those things and and I want to hold off on really diving into that one but our PSK criteria need to be met for us to to truly get that. So um a defensive uh a gunner being held was a post scrimmage kick or was it during the kick or after the kick after the run? All those different things. All right. a down, loss of downs. These ones are kind of easy here. So, we got a scrimmage down, an action which starts with a legal snap, a free kickown, an action that starts when the ball is kicked and the down ends when the ball becomes well dead. Uh, a loss of down is a loss of the right to replay a down associated with penalties for certain fouls. Okay, that one's kind of obvious that um your illegal forward pass, your intentional grounding is probably the most common one for a loss of down penalty. So, quarterback is in the pocket, they throw the ball away to avoid a sack and there's no receiver in the area. Well, you're going to be penalized and then you're not going to be given the right to replay the down, which a lot of people think of, okay, a holding penalty. All right, 10 yards and we'll replay first down. Well, no. It's penalty, yardage, and loss of down. All right, Daniel, this one's another uh easier one for you. Yeah. Definitions. Rule six, uh kicks. Intentional striking of the ball with knee, lower leg, or foot. The kick ends when a player gains possession or ball becomes dead, not in player possession. Free kick. any kick which puts the ball in play to start a free kick down after ready for play and before kick. Players must be behind free kick line except the kicker and holder used for kickoff kick following a safety or a fair catch free kick. You know what a fair catch free kick is? Yeah, that's the uh lineup like it's a kickoff but you punt it, right? Nope. Oh, no, no, no, no. A fair catch free kick is that's like a field goal. Yes, sir. That is that oddity that you don't see too often. Yeah, that's the old if you can kick it from where you fair caught it, you get a chance and they can't rush you or anything, right? You betcha. Um, scrimmage kick. Any kick from in or behind the neutral zone during scrimmage down, it'd be a place kick, punt, or drop kick may be used as drops. Drop kicks are still a thing by rule. Yes. Who's the last guy to do one? Brady or Breeze? Did Brady do one? Ever do one? I don't know. I thought Brady did one, but the two the two people that come to my mind, again, I'm going to date myself, are Drew Brees and before that, Doug Fluty. Yeah, Fluty. Patriots. Uh maybe that's why I'm thinking Brady's. I'm thinking about the Patriots. But uh for place kick must be controlled on the ground or kicking tee by a teammate or a holder. That kind of seems pretty easy. Um yeah. So those ones we kind of already talked about. Um one thing I do want to mention here that you're going to hear officials talk about and we say that a kick is a kick is a kick. Kick is a kick is a kick. meaning that the ball is still a kick until a player gains possession of it. So when you go to the the first one here, a kick ends when player gains possession or the ball becomes dead in player possession. So this is where our muffs come into play. Um and different things like that. So a kick is a kick is a kick. They haven't gained possession of it yet. So if I muff the ball, you kick the ball to me and I muff the ball and it goes into my end zone, it's not a fumble, it's going to be a touchback. So, because it's still a kick in that scenario until somebody actually gains possession. Now, if I gain possession and now I fumble it and it goes into my end zone, well, now I'm going to have if my team recovers it a safety or if your team recovers it, it's a touchdown. So, that's where the difference is. So, we need to know that a kick is a kick is a kick. All right. So, our types of kicks, our kickoffs, our place kicks, and our drop kicks. Again, we've talked about these, but uh your kickoff is going to be your free kick. Your place kick is a legal kick made while the ball is in a fixed position on a ground or the tea. And I actually just saw in the UFFL they were doing the old sidewinder kickoff in the UFFL. So that that was interesting to see. Um that one's going to be used for scrimmage kick kickoffs, free kicks following a safety, free kick after the fair catch. That's what the FCFK means. It is not a curse word that some people might be thinking if you're looking at this. Um, and then your drop kick is an illegal kick made by dropping the ball and kicking it as it touches the ground or it starts to slowly rise. And again, I don't know if I've ever seen that in real life. My well, real life in in person, I should say. Um, other than on on the TV screen on the old uh screen in front of me. All right. Two-24 punts. a legal kick made by dropping the ball and kicking it before it touches the ground. And it is used for free kicks following the safety or you can do a scrimmage kick. Um, and then I've got a little chart here that it's not really that big of a deal. Um, but the one I want to really talk about here is your punt. I got the little star here. Um, a punt cannot score a field goal, but a field goal is basically a punt that can score. So, a punt cannot score a field goal, but a field goal is a punt that can score. So, if you think about it, you line up for a 50-yard field goal and your kicker can't make a 50-yard field goal, but you have a great operation, great snapper, holder, and the kicker puts the ball up and it goes in the end zone, you got yourself a touchback. As opposed to you got a windy day and your punter's back 15 yards and you got a long snapper that's not so good and the ball wobbles through and now that punt gets blocked. I've seen people say, "Screw it. Let's take a shot for a field goal. kick the ball deep and if it doesn't go in just as long as it crosses the goal line, all right, we got ourselves a touchback. But if it doesn't cross the goal line, it's a punt. The live ball. Yeah. Yeah. We we we mess with this with the rules this year and and it always comes down to like if you put your field goal unit out there, can they cover? Yeah. And then if not, you got to get into, you know, you've got to spread them out. You got to figure something out. And that's where you start getting into weird like can and and I don't that'd be a rule a question I had. Can I spread my field goal team out to have 10 yard splits so they take up the entire field. The right number of guys are still on the line. The only thing I can see is the free blocking zone is is interrupted. But beyond that, like I think it fits all the rules. So at least that way the defense also is really spread out. You know what I mean? That way they can't rush you. True. But what would stop me as a defense from putting two guys on both sides of the center and rushing through because I know those other interior guys are still ineligible. Uh I guess if I can get it to my holder and he can take off running, you better hope those D lineman can outrun my my quarterback. Yeah, that that would be it, I guess. But yeah, I mean that that's the that's the the gimmick and the gimmick, right? like it's just it is just a punt a punt with a guy with his knee on the ground. And now the other caveat that we got to make sure that everybody understands is well that field goal you cannot have a returner sitting deep in the end zone and doing the uh the Alabama Auburn field goal return for 109 yard touchdown because as soon as it breaks the plane of the goal line it's a touchback. So you can put somebody on the one yard line or put their heels on the goal line before touching the goal line and try to catch it and go. But that's that's where you're going to catch some people of going for that 56 yard field goal is they're probably going to keep their defense out there and most of them aren't going to put a returner deep. So your coverage aspect comes into play in that scenario. So it's probably going to just end up being touched and and forced down at that point in time. All right. Our our types of kicks here. And we got about four more. Oh, my thing's going a little wacky on me. Uh, so Daniel, you want to take an illegal kick and a pop-up kick? Yep. Illegal kick. Intentionally, intentional striking of the ball, which does not comply with free kick or scrimmage kick requirements. A lot of that was like below the knee, lower leg, foot, etc. Right. Yes. When ball is loose following an illegal kick, retains the same status as prior to that kick. Examples: kick beyond the line of scrimmage, the neutral zone, or a quarterback punter kicking the ball out of bounds after a bad snap, which we talked about already. Yep. Uh pop-up kick, free kick, in which kicker drives the ball directly into the ground. The ball strikes the ground once and rises in the manner of a ball kick directly off the tee. This is illegal and a dead ball foul. More on this in rule six. That was the uh trying to save people's brains on the onside kick because we put a floater up there and just kill the front line, right? Like correct. But it's also not just that if I were to to pooch kick a kickoff, can you fair catch that kickoff? Oh yeah, absolutely. 100%. Yeah. Now, if I were to ground that ball right after the T and now that ball pops up 15 feet up in the air, can you fair catch that one? You can't fair catch it because it's already been grounded 100%. So, that is another reason why that that rule was put into place so that you cannot do that. So, we want to make sure the rule now is it is it got to bounce is it got it has to bounce twice? It has to bounce once a certain distance from the tea. How do they How do you police the difference in a popup versus just a an onside pooch kick? Cuz I heard that's illegal, too, right? You're not allowed to just loft it out there over the returning team's head. No, you can, but you cannot catch that pooch kick as the kicking team. It has to be grounded first before you can recover it. Okay. So, that that's the that's the big one because there is a team in our area that likes to do that. They have a fantastic kicker that would put it from say the right hash and pooch it like 15 yards to the opposite sideline and their widest receiver would be down there and try to catch the ball before it goes out of bounds. But if the ball doesn't hit the ground, that's an illegal that's a kick kick catching interference even though there might not be a receiver in the area. Too easy. All right, we are almost done here. So we got first touching on a free kick ball touched in the field of play by any K player before it crosses Rs free kick line and before it is touched by an R player. And again we talked about this the last one. First touching is not a foul. Some people do call it a foul but it is not. So please make sure that you know this. Uh first touching now on a scrimmage kick is touched in the field of play beyond the expanded neutral zone by any K player before it is touched by R. So, your scrimmage kick again, your punt. I If I'm running downfield and my kicker kicks the ball and I'm the gunner and I have my back to the ball as it's rolling around the ground and it hits my back, that's first touching. And this is important because here's that wacky rule. As the return team, I could pick that ball up and attempt to return it, and if I fumble it, I'm getting the ball back at first touching. Daniel's shaking his head. It's just seems like unnecessary confusion in this most beautiful game on earth. It is one of those caveats where we tell the the the kicking team, pick the ball up. If you're going to down the ball, don't just tap it and run to your sideline. pick the ball up because if the official does not blow their whistle for whatever reason, it's just first touching and that returner can scoop the ball up and go basically free of charge because if they lose yardage, they're getting the ball back at first touching. If they fumble, they're getting the ball back at first touching. If they return it for a touchdown, they're getting a touchdown. Now, if there's a penalty on that, that's a whole another caveat. I'm sure it is. Fair catch. What do you got here? Uh catch of a kick where receiver forfeits rights to advance the ball in return for protection from being blocked or tackled by an opponent. Um of a free kick in a fair catch of a free kick in or beyond neutral zone to the returner's goal line. Uh fair catch of a scrimmage kick. or punt or such uh beyond the neutral zone to returner's goal line always after a valid fair catch signal. All right. Can you tell me what a valid fair catch signal is? Daniel any player on the returning team waving their hand above their head. Correct. Now here is getting some type of appearance. Right. Uh is that like air on the side of caution? I mean, you you gotta it's it's a bone of contention right now because you're also now seeing where people are waving their team away that poison call or whatever it may be where the ball is is grounded and you're trying to tell your teammates to get away from the ball. So, there's there's poison. There's all different verbiage that people that that teams use for for getting that. Um it it's caused a bone of contention because you'll have somebody kind of do this and they're trying to wave everybody off, but now it looks like I'm giving a fair catch and all of a sudden the kicking team kind of backs off because they don't want to get a kick catching interference penalty. So make sure you have and a good deep person is going to remind the punt returner every single time. Make sure you give a good wave over your head because think about some of the lights. You got glare. Think about a day game with the sun. You got glare and they're putting their hand up. So, we want to make sure that we're getting a good fair catch. Um, an awarded fair catch. The offended team chooses to take the ball after enforcement of a foul for kick catching interference. Okay. And why is this important to know? defend the team chooses to take the ball. I'm assuming um what we're going here is like if there's a turnover or something. I don't know. I don't know why it's important here. It seems like it either is or isn't caught. Maybe if you think about think about your free kick after a fair catch. Oh, because if you get the penalty now, you scoot it up 15 yards and you get to still try your field goal. Correct. And excuse me, not on free kick after a fair catch. Yeah, it's not a field goal, but it's worth three points, so everybody will call it a field goal. The newspaper will write it up as a field goal. Is it off a T? It can be. Or is it have to be snapped to a holder, or is it the dealer's choice? dealer's choice. Man, that's great. Yeah. So, a lot of kickers like to do the simulated operation where it's not actually snapped, but the holder is there to catch the ball and bring it down. Um, other people will do it right off of the kicking tea. Um, and the other reason why this is important is because after a fair catch, you get choice of where you want the ball when it comes to hash marks. So, even if it's not the actual kick, uh that you're going for the free kick afterwards, um but just getting where you want the ball to be placed, it does pertain to this scenario. All right. And like we just talked about, a valid fair catch signal, extending the arm and laterally waving one arm. Um an invalid fair catch signal doesn't meet those requirements. That's kind of the definition. um it's given after the kick has touched the receiver or it's given after the kick has touched the ground. So, you can get penalized for that. If the ball touches the ground and all of a sudden you're giving a fair catch signal, well, that's an invalid fair catch signal. An illegal fair catch is given by a runner um simulating possession and after the kick has been caught or already recovered. So Daniel, you you're a team that has two punt returners and your punt returner to the left catches the ball and after they catch the ball, you decide to give a fake fair catch to the right side, that's going to be an illegal fair catch signal because teams that are possibly splitting up their punt coverage to the two returners, well, they're going to kind of stop at that point in time. So we do need to make sure that everybody understands that. And you mentioned it before, anybody can give a fair catch signal and it does not matter who catches the ball either. So if I am a defensive tackle and the ball is kicked and is in the air and I'm waving my hand over my head for some stupid reason and my returner catches the ball, well that is a valid fair catch signal. And as an official, I should blow that play dead before that receiver gets crushed in that scenario because the receiver probably doesn't know that his idiot defensive tackle just called for a fair catch, which I don't I've never seen, but I'm throwing the defensive tackle under the bus there. There we go. Daniel, we have finally come to the conclusion of rule number two. That's a good one. and and a lot of I'm anxious to see the rules later. Obviously, we just kind of talk definitions now, not necessarily how the rule is enforced or whatever, but I'm excited, man. This is a really neat project. I think it's good you're doing this. So, it's kind of two-sided because I'm sure a lot of coaches are going to watch these and enjoy it and and learning without having to get out a book and read because we know coaches don't want to read. But then also, you know, a lot of your referee counterparts can can do the same. So, absolutely. Yeah. So, so spread the word to all the all your coaching friends that that the rules are going to be coming out there for them to weaponize. Use your terminology talking about my terminology. I love it. So, uh once again, Daniel, I appreciate you taking the time to to join me on another episode here of Whistle Talk about our rules. And again, I I I showed my rule book here. Kind of a little worn out. But I no longer have a cover on it here because I I like to refer to this every once in a while. Oh, he's getting a book himself. Look at this. A coach. Oh, nice. He's got the rule book. Got the rule book and then the simplified and illustrated. I have no idea how to even use this, so it's useless. But this one's been good. Yeah. Uh I tried to order You told me about the There's that one name everybody studies to take the test or whatever. What's that called? The reading manual. Yes, sir. the reading manual. I tried to order it and actually you know I did order it from a website and it never showed up really. I gave him like Yeah, it must have been fake or something. I wasted 40 bucks or whatever it was. It was expensive if I remember. I'll forward you my my contact that I have for that one and uh we'll go from there. That'll work. But yeah, once again I feel like you've got to be you've got to prepare yourself for all, you know, for anything. And so the the best way to be the most prepared coach, especially because I'm not a head coach, so I don't have to deal with all that stuff right now. Um, and so I can just be the rules expert guy to help when I say weaponized, man. We did everything under the sun last year to just make the rules in our favor. Get away from traditional football, you know what I mean? And it people get confused. So absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on. I love doing these. Um, look forward to the next one. We get to knock out. Was it rule three? Is that what's next? We'll be tackling rule three. Figuratively and literally tackling rule number three. So, good to go from there. There we go. Awesome. All right, brother man. Well, I see that your mason jar there is getting a little empty, so I'm going to allow you to go and uh go refill that baby and enjoy the rest of your evening. So, once again, Daniel Chamberlain, Coaching 101 podcast, Coaching Football, he's out there. He's all over the place. Just look him up. Coach Shambo. Okay, find him. He's out there and uh he's been he's been a great guest for me so far. So much again, I appreciate you taking the time out. Thanks, Mike. All right, buddy. I'll talk to you soon.