foreign [Music] ladies and gentlemen dear viewers dear marketing enthusiasts I feel very honored to be interviewing Philip kotler today Philip kotler is the father of modern marketing he has written over 90 books on topics like marketing democracy common good and capitalism he has he's a trained Economist at the University of Chicago and MIT and he's lectured for over 40 years although he has received 22 honorary degrees abroad and it's a great pleasure Philip to have you here today welcome thank you Julia I'm looking forward to talking about my favorite subject marketing and people and and Good times yes great before I start with the interview I'd like to briefly introduce myself my name is Julia Schlatter I've been working in marketing and sales for 12 years and I also have my own growth marketing Consulting and coaching company and also something for you to know dear viewers at the end of today's interview you will have some time to ask Philip kotler your own questions so as soon as they come up feel free to type them into the chat window and I will read them out to Phila kotlin he will answer them to you today live in this interview so Philip uh we've had a few calls before and it's a really great pleasure to know you and I really look forward to today's interview before I proceed uh we before we jump into the topic would you be able to explain to the viewers the development from marketing 1.0 all the way to 4.0 yes yes um it turns out that um we have to help professional marketers uh move with the times there's so much new problems new disruptions uh and so most textbooks are outdated I mean certainly every professional marketer must have grown up with a textbook of 600 pages and often goes back to those books for help and guidance but the truth is many things have happened more recently not in the textbooks that led us to the idea of creating more periodic books of about 200 pages that would update professional marketers on the most important latest developments well so we came out in 2010 2017 I believe with one book which was called marketing 3.0 we didn't start with a book on 1.0 but we use 3.0 to look backward at how marketing evolved all the way up to 3.0 so we defined 1.0 as the time when marketers assume that the customers are all rational the marketers are rational and the best way to sell something is to put a lot of facts out about the product and why it is different and it performs well well uh the fact is we'd began to realize that it's more like the kind of selling they used to do in Russia where they would put all that information and it was more not motivating so we had to create something called marketing 2.0 to acknowledge the growing role of emotions in the in guiding decisions made not only by consumers but by even the CEOs too just think of yourself going in to buy something you may even have a list I would bet that in the store you ended up buying more things than you meant to buy so we see at the checkout counter some candy bars we end up buying them so emotions play a very big role but also in the decisions of CEOs because they're taking risks with very big decisions and their own tolerance for risk their own emotional mindset uh comes into play so we were describing 2.0 as emotionally loaded marketing understanding and then we Define 3.0 as a kind of a new way to think namely a lot of consumers hopefully a growing owner want to be what we call same consumers not insane which no one wants but they're saying insanity is important buying products that don't harm you not buying cigarettes uh making sure that the products you're buying are not bad for the environment that's 3.0 it's a more almost a more spiritual view of good buying same buying so that took us to 3.0 now what happened is um we started to move into a whole new generation called the digital generation we had no remember normally most marketing was using TV advertising very heavily 30-second commercials also using a lot of the print advertising uh and and fancy pricing and so on but you know the digital age was coming into being and we had to capture that and ask professional marketers to stack getting um closer to the new social media that was appearing Facebook Instagram and therefore they would um this may lead to a different type of marketing which we call digital marketing and it's not that it should replace all traditional marketing but the two of them together would be more powerful than just traditional marketing that and that led to our uh Point our marking 4.0 book which was an introduction to digital marketing so why are we at 5.0 now well because there are new techniques in marketing 5.0 in the digital age that we wanted to explain so that's my long-winded answer to your question of what 1.0 2.0 all the way to 5.0 means great thank you so much Philip kotler and I've read your books marketing 3.0 4.1 5.0 and found it very interesting and insightful and also to hear your few points now in person so looking at marketing 5.0 now and you've launched this book in 2021 uh what would you say are the main principles behind it and I know you've prepared some slides so whenever you're ready to show them let me know and I will share them with the audience yes why don't you turn to the first slide and then I will comment yeah on that okay that's fine that's our first slide and that's our second slide uh Scott for a moment it just shows the cover of the book uh a 5.0 let's go to the next slide good okay uh in the whole uh question of digital marketing uh we introduce a view of how because consumers make their decisions and they go through stages and it's well known that that buying is a staging process but ours is a little different than the ordinary one certainly the first task of a company is to create awareness of your brand now awareness is not enough you want to also create an appeal they they must not only know you but find you interesting enough to to to want to know more and that's important because we introduced the word ask as the third stage in the what we call the five A's it's a way to we say what are the five A's of the journey because if you aren't prepared to answer a lot of questions they will buy because the the risk is too high so you have to anticipate how people who are interested in finding your product appealing what would they like to know more they might like to know is has your company been around a long time uh how does your product differ from competitive products so by anticipating the questions you you advertise the information and then they feel more comfortable account more comfortable enough to act to buy the first time it could be it could be anything from a small product like a can of soup or it could be a car but they they act yeah and you hope they're satisfied and if they're satisfied uh they will buy some more from you and have respect for you so that's the customer journey and it's made up of touch points we have to reach a point where we could say well exactly what medium was used to make them aware uh what what ads what what vehicles uh at the touch Point worked and and did your company look good at the touch point was it a moment of truth that the customer felt by your statement so um this whole problem is uh important but I want to lead to the next slide Julia because it shows what happens and this repeats the slide but we're beginning to say there's really a stage a state of transitions and we need our marketing focusing on each of those States for example what can we do to make an aware person a person who finds the product appealing well we use things like branding uh marketing Communications and so on and that we could spell out a lot of things that will create an appealing feeling in the customer in the prospect who might become a customer another transition is uh after a person is appealing finds it appealing what kinds of questions do they ask well we should do some social group interviewing and we will get a sense of what new consumers might think about and want to know about and again there's another ratio between people who have asked a lot of questions and and we're satisfied enough to act and finally those who act how can we make them into an advocate now the word advocate is very important great it's one thing to have a customer who buys a few times hopefully that customer could be defined as a loyal customer now a loyal customer is not enough anymore it's wonderful if you have customer liability you would like that customer to be enthusiastic if he is in a conversation or she's in a conversation with someone about buying a car and they bought your car this person uh who bought your car if you're that person says boy am I satisfied with my car that company makes really one of the best cars for that purpose then you have one or more customers who are going out of their way to praise you and you know what they're doing they are your marketing department if you can't get your new customers to include a number who are fans of your company and talk a lot about you favorably then maybe you're not a very exciting customer that company I mean so advocacy is an important thing that we have okay thank you totally agreed um okay I'm gonna stop sharing the screen for a moment just so we see you bigger again uh and also think it underlines the idea of Word of Mouth marketing so if you manage to really capture the attention and to make people and customers your Advocates I think uh we can all be much more successful in marketing right yeah Philip Cutler in your book uh marketing 5.0 uh you were looking at the customer Journey which is so important uh to optimize uh from the very start to the very end um but also you were introducing technology various different technologies that are becoming more and more important in marketing uh what would you say are these main technological drivers and forces that we see and experience today as marketers okay turn to the next slide Julia it turns out that the 5.0 book wanted to also the next slide yeah um and and that book wanted to um mention some of the newer techniques now could we make this aside a little larger let's see if I is this large enough for you there we go yeah because the book says some very important things here and I'm just going to be brief about them namely uh there are three gaps that this uh book is recognizing the first one is called the generation gap and that has to do with um a company should ask who is our best prospects you know for some products for example for the manufacturers canes you know a walking stick it's not for the uh the the young people it's for older people who um can use a cane and to support themselves a little more so what is the general what are the characteristics of people who are in their 60s and 70s and so on uh or you might want to reach the youngest group of kids growing up on the new music but what we are emphasizing is that everyone grows up during a special set of times made up of the music of the times the central ideas that are driving people at the time and we want to know what what it was like for that Target Market because we can use some flashback to those times they grew up in and use what we call Nostalgic marketing not especially if there's a feeling Oh What A Wonderful Life I had when I was growing up nostalgic thinking um so we we spend a lot of time asking you to define the generation of the people you're trying to reach the digital divide was another problem that we took up because a lot of people don't have computers at the time so what the computers were doing uh making it uh more successful for people who had computers and and leaving behind a lot of other people who were reachable it really meant that we needed to use a lot of digital traditional marketing and mass marketing because many people didn't have computers at the time uh and and so we had to do the blending of traditional and and uh this and digital and we wanted to recognize also Prosperity polarization namely that income differences that people had because who are we aiming for can they afford the product where are they to be found if it's an expensive product and so on so then we went on and we distinguished different types of marketing uh data-driven marketing became an obsession namely why should we just assume we know how people buy a car or any other product maybe we have to collect real data and do a lot of good marketing research and maybe we need to have um actual individual data not just group data but what is Joe like what does Joe read what does what stores does he shop in um what movies does he see uh so things like that is means that we became customer driven individual customer driven marketing as a New Prospect in other words you heard the term customization how to make your product appeal to that specific individual or we would use the term personalization we wanted to make sure it's had a personal meaning to the person so that was Data driven marketing predictive marketing was to set up your marketing tools so you could predict what the sales would be based on the set of variables and usually you use what we call regression multiple regression analysis which took some key variables and their weights were allowed allowing us to predict how many units of our product would be sold then we talked about in the same book augmented marketing and uh it meant that you could do extra things and a good illustration of that would be um let's say a person wants to buy some furniture from Ikea and um they don't know what it would look like in their room so we can create a picture of their room where they plan to put the furniture and we couldn't superimpose the pieces of furniture that they might be interested in and actually designed the room filled with Ikea furniture which might be their living room or dining room or whatever so that's augmenting the reality it's oh it's reality marketing it's using the real world of the consumer another example would be a woman who wants to know what she would look like to wear a certain dress we can superimpose the dress on the woman in a mirror and then we talked about agile Marketing in times of great change how how do you remain agile so and now if we look at the other side of the screw of that example we wanted to say that the main points in 5.0 marketing it had six enablers I'll reach read the list the huge increase in computing power was changing marketing the open source software was improving all the time the widespread diffusion of the internet among more people than ever Cloud Computing Made A Difference the ubiquity of mobile devices the lap the laptop the mobile phone and the fact that real data of about real people real individuals was being collected so all of that made 5.0 important and that's what you find in the book so thank you very much for giving us so many insights into the technological forces and drivers um it was also really interesting to go when I read your book to go very deep into HR marketing data-driven marketing into all these aspects that influence us as marketers today um so that was a great summary about ongoing developments when you think of companies uh that are currently using marketing 5.0 which case studies or specific entities come to your mind uh yes uh one of them that I'm very fond of is the company called Unilever uh and they are worldwide uh and uh they were run the company was run by Paul Pullman who's was brilliant in his 10 years of uh running the company uh getting uh their uh size up from something like 36 billion to 60 billion uh but the main thing about Paul is he wanted to be uh sure that the company has a clear purpose he distinguished actually between purpose vision and Mission uh purpose is why you're doing something and then vision is what you're doing and Mission is how you're doing it and then he wanted to um say that we are not just in the business of making money for the investors that's business is more than that business is about serving all the stack the stakeholders we're not successful at all if our employees are not successful if our suppliers are not successful so he distinguished seven different groups of stakeholders and they all were important to be rewarded they should be sharing in the income produced not just the investor and then he said my plan is always long run I never make just a short run plan in fact I tell the in uh the market I'm not even going to tell you how much money I'm going to make next year because then you if I were you're going to hold me to it and it will reduce my flexibility but I will tell you this I'm going to double the size of the business over the next 10 years I'm going to end up um uh making sure that there's we're producing with more and more efficiency and less harm to the environment and I'm also going to take up some social causes because businesses are being affected by these social causes and sure enough he got everyone excited about it and the proof was in the pudding he absolutely grew his business to the size and said it would grow and his business he even told every brand manager please define the purpose of your brand in the case of Dove the the dove planets for women is to make them help them feel very beautiful and very worthwhile not just um use the soap to clean dishes or something else so I would suggest that that's one example of a firm that is thinking marketing 5.0 nice I really like that approach and uh what do you does another example come to your mind of a campaign maybe or something um where these Technologies you introduce as part of your marketing 5.0 book come into effect I also like to cite uh another company that I'm very impressed with I do a lot of work in Japan and uh the company white high k k is very interesting because all of us are affected by YKK why because they make the world's best zippers so uh someone uh with a purse or a briefcase or pants or whatever or there's a zipper it's ykk's brand it's that reliable but Mr Yoshida and I work together a lot and I loved his concept of the firm which is a 5.0 kind of concept that it's there to produce value for all the participants including the consumers of course uh he's very conscious that workers themselves should not only work for Wages that's not a way to have a a strong income he wants to make sure that they set aside money for um their savings and for buying uh shares in The Firm they're working for because of that since they would not only get a wage they would not only get bonuses for working well they will also get dividend returns because they love the company and it's part of their own uh shareholder business well if you look at the diagram if you use a firm Laden with value production and remember marketing is all about creating real value for all the participants and this The Firm shows that um so Philip Cutler a topic that also interests me personally is uh the topic of omnichannel marketing I have recently held a lecture on it it's a concept you introduced as part of your marketing 4.0 book so I'm curious uh how do you see Omni Channel marketing because from my view find a lot of companies want to get there they're not there yet uh how would you describe the main principles and ideas behind it and do you have an advice for companies that really want to implement it over the years to come yeah you know most companies uh start off with a single Channel distribution I mean a company that makes food for the public wants to be uh had on the shelves of supermarkets let's say uh but sometimes they go further and they add another Channel and another Channel a good example would be a Starbucks Starbucks had one channel at the beginning which the only place to get Starbucks coffee was to go to the shop which itself was designed to be an experience away from home a wonderful experience people call that your third home the first home was your home and the second was your office and the third was Starbucks but that wasn't enough then they added uh the idea of the coffee would be obtainable in the off the shelves of supermarkets so you can make Starbucks coffee at home you don't have to be at a store then later on as gas stations began to have um Candy and and soft and and soft drinks and so on sometimes you would see there the Starbucks Outlet in part of the gas station now what it means is they have three channels now they normally have three different managers of those channels who don't really talk to each other they each want to optimize the channel that they manage but then it could create confusion if one channels prices are way off the line of the other channels uh if the ads are saying different things so the difference between running your business as a set of multi it's called multiple channels versus Omni channels is whether or not you're managing them as one unit I'm the channel means you're wherever they go for what you're selling they get the same impression of the brand its value uh its price being reasonable and so on and so forth so it's an it's a discipline put over multiple channels to make them all work with the same delivery of value that's called on the channel marketing thanks for summarizing it and I think as we um proceed in the digital era it's becoming more and more challenging for companies uh to actually incorporate uh these ideas across all the channels no matter where people get in touch um yeah great um so you're based in the US Philip kotler thanks by the way for joining from Florida today uh and you've had International collaborations all over the world so what would you say uh are the differences in marketing in the US versus in Europe oh well I think that um Europe has the thing they call the gdpr which is really called the general uh data protection regulations and uh we don't have those uh and as such uh the Europeans generally uh value privacy uh and want to protect privacy and uh it makes it a little different uh therefore for companies in the same International firms in the US they can get a lot of personal data about people um data that will help them to know whether that is the real Prospect or not so that data helps you bring more effective in sending messages to people who might become customers rather than Mass marketing but in Europe um there's a lot of protection against getting data about individual people and what what media they are watching what magazines they are reading uh when they shop where they shop what uh how long do they stand in front of the wine section of the store so I would say that the European marketers will be find that they have less of efficiency than Americans have in what we call data driven Marketing in other words it will slow down even the international the multinational company that is very operating Europe and in the US the U.S will have more efficient and profitable results possibly than the European marketers and and that's that delivers however to the European marketers more protection of privacy I have to think of a personal example because I was running marketing ads in the US and also in Europe and during my time in the U.S we could Target People based on income and I was very surprised that this was not the case in Europe I'm totally with you here and uh so looking at the European companies then and also let's say uh as an example at the fact that the AI tool Google Bart was delayed and could only be launched later in Europe versus the US what advice uh can you give a company specifically how can they drive Innovation how can they still be competitive without falling behind the US um well there's some wonderful things about European companies that uh and the quality of their goods and services I often spend time in Italy and there's nothing like handcrafted products and and the beautiful fashion Goods the leather goods uh and that's the way they can they have monopolies too you know you might say that um every company wants to be so special that they're almost there's no second hand for second firm that can compete with them um you remember maybe the German firms that were called um they they had a name they were small firms that were fantastically uh niched they were the only ones making the world's best binoculars the only one another company was making the world's best umbrellas big umbrellas that wouldn't fall on people outside when they were stopping their coffee or something uh those German Brands were really monopolies in a sense they were able to charge much more because their product was more special and um and and Germany thrived and a huge number of niched companies so I think niching is very a good strategy for European firms to become the master of some particular Special Touch that they put on that product that they're selling or that service the real problem is um what about small businesses and you're because many European countries want to protect their small businesses and the fact is that it's the ambition of the big companies to to buy up the small companies get them under their own Wing but by the way many small businesses get started because they want to build them up then build it up to a point where they will be acquired by a big company they don't want to remain small they want to get the rent from selling having created a business that someone else buys but I still think that Europe is so many beautiful cities and places and having the local bakery having the local flower shop having small scale and having products made within that very country that doesn't have to import from Asia or somewhere else 40 000 miles away or something products we we have to aim in Europe to it to keep cities distinctive and and small and with regional supplies rather than International supplies yeah I also had to think about the made in Germany claim or made in Italy claim which is very popular in the US and you really sell products just uh by putting this stamp on it uh so just practice the most impactful companies in the world and uh when you look at which companies have actually dominated the industries over the past decades uh let's say in the 60s there was the automotive Industries now we've moved and transitioned to the tech and software companies uh how do you think uh do these shifts impacting economy overall and do you think we need to rethink our business models in Europe and abroad or and if yes how well you know there's a article that came out re recently called is Big Business too big and there is uh I have a friend named Jack the chef chef who has written a lot and he has proposed proposes that most uh Industries will end up with the rule of three there will be three firms the leader the second one and the smaller one trying to be the second one and the second one trying to be the first one and uh that bigness is part of uh the uh nature of things now the fact is that many companies want to merge and acquire and grow you wish a company would grow just on the basis of their organic offerings no uh that's not enough in many cases so they grow by acquiring other firms so we need good laws on the mergers and acquisitions we should say um for example if Kodak at the time when there was such a great firm bought a Fujifilm a company I liked so much and worked with uh we they would never allow that because the two dominant filmmakers would have been one company so very important to have good competitive policy um in any country in every country to prevent mergers that would hurt the customer and reduce the amount of supply uh and I would say that um that we have been a little uh sloppy about that in both the United States and Europe uh that more regulation uh for keeping the markets all competitive uh must be worked on more vigorously mm-hmm thank you very much um so I'd like to uh take the time to allow the audience now and the viewers today to ask some questions uh so whoever wants to ask Philip kotler question please type it into the chat now and um yeah let's see many uh responses uh people really enjoy the interview with you today a lot of people could join from all over the world and especially from Europe and so one of the questions I see here is uh Philip kotler what are the challenges to integrate AI uh into existing Market processes well I should have mentioned uh what's happening with AI it's so important um it turns out that many companies are using artificial intelligence in different processes and decision making that they're not even aware of but the most visible thing was to hear about algorithms and that algorithms are going to do a lot of our decision making for us so let me just make a statement about that namely just think of a banker uh every day he's asked for agreeing on to make a loan to someone and then you can ask it as the banker had a good record that most of the loans get paid off because after all we trust his experience in doing this for 30 years but the truth is when we look at what the Banker's results were we'll find that he made a lot of loans that never paid off so that shouldn't happen so could we see where he went off and can we use his normal decision-making variables and improve on them so that where he made mistakes doesn't happen again and that's called creating an algorithm now if it's a really successful algorithm you don't need the banker anymore to make decisions in fact the customer comes and says he wants a loan the banker instead of just thinking in his own mind whether to make a loan he goes to the algorithm he puts in the numbers because there are questions that must be answered and then the algorithm says yes or no and that's being done at universities now for admission to the universities they have an algorithm and not just an admission officer so more business decisions will be uh made by successful algorithms that minimize losses and so on but the biggest thing in AI that has come along is called chat GPT or generative AI and there's different versions of it but it's going to revolutionize even the marketing 5.0 that we talked about uh in fact it will be in maybe our 6.0 book uh but the point is we are able to put a question to the whole to to the software and the software can print uh an answer an intelligent readable answer like we might say um what is happening to what what is the latest happening to the whole idea of influencer marketing where some companies get a group of high visible people who are big influencers they have very big networks and they can pay these people to show that they use the product you want everyone to use well that AI generated AI will give you a three-page essay on what's Happening to influencer marketing and you could use that as the beginning of now if you were a copywriter and had to get a good message you can ask the machines to make a message out of the points you make and and it's a very good starting point message maybe we're not not going to need as many copywriters maybe the um the new system is going to generate ads for us we just tell them we want an ad showing a pair of shoes of a certain pair of colors and floating in the air and it makes an ad so the once that AI will be come essential parts of of the marketing planning of the marketing professional marketers I totally agree and also uh from my experience a lot of marketers are using chat GPT already on a daily basis and it does to some extent replace content writers and also when you brought in the influencer topic I found that very interesting uh because when I read your book and did some more research on it apparently there's two 200 artificial intelligence influencers already out there so you don't even need Humanity anymore uh to be an influencer if you can control the content much better uh let's get to another topic of um one person in the audience they're asking what impact do you think uh does metaverse have and what impact will it have on Modern marketing well the metaverse means different things to different people but you know that back in uh before even Zuckerberg and and Facebook changed their name to meta and talking about the metaverse there was a thing called um oh I was a member of it um early something but uh what happens is anyone could join they become an avatar they get a costume they assume a name they meet other avatars uh actually you talk to someone else because you find their costume interesting and then you could it it also moved to the stage where you could buy products or Services you could buy a saying oh I'm gonna want to build a house and put a fireplace in the living room and there was a person a virtual person selling fireplaces and money was being created and exchanged so in the literal sense a metaverse means you've created a an alternative reality that really functions it resembles real the real world but it is made up of avatars and sellers and buyers uh conducting business and I had a son-in-law who became an avatar and I remember he made a lot of money uh selling some some furniture to others in that universe will the question may be how far will this go uh is it just a play thing um well some people think it's a good way to test ideas by creating the artificial world and that it's it's and that land will be bought by companies on the uh this artificial in this artificial world and that these companies will put up a Disneyland in that artificial world of their own and it could be exciting but it's it's still not going to be mainstream for a long long time the the real world will be the mainstream yes it's it's going to be very exciting to see how far this trend actually goes and uh we've got one more question um what is the future of marketing Automation and what role does AI play in it yes very good question uh all of them are good the one about automation uh certainly there's a lot of clerical work in marketing a lot of files and folders have to be kept uh and so that should be automated you don't need uh people actually uh using their time for clerical purposes in marketing now the real question is can decisions be made by Machine more or by the cooperation between a live marketer and the Machine I almost always believe that that if a machine can help the black marketer then the team is fine I don't think the machine's going to take over the the whole job there are zombies there are pictures of a future where the robots take over no I I don't believe that's going to happen but here's the thing um because most marketers have to go to sleep at night right all of us and therefore who's taking care of the business let's say everyone who runs uh Unilever is at sleep from uh uh 10 a.m 10 P.M to 8 A.M in the morning but things could happen a competitor could go after make a price change or a brilliant ad move uh while everyone's asleep so some people say well we should have what is called uh assistance it's like a robot it's it's like if anything happens to change while we're asleep decisions will be made to protect us by anticipating what kinds of steps we should take if a price is cut by 20 what should our automatic robot do about that because we're asleep at the time so there's talk about some automation of decision making but in limited cases so far it's great to also hear your broader background um because marketing automation is a topic that's heavily discussed in digital marketing and also to now see that you can take it further to a management board or a decision making while people are sleeping uh so one other question we got from the audience is uh which connections do you see between a consumer branding and marketing and employer branding oh they are very intimately related don't forget to join the two in your thinking process let's take a hotel uh Hotel may look very beautiful rooms and and and so on but the the one who rents a room at the hotel finds when he goes into the room that it's not very clean um that there's there's a cigarette smell in the room which wasn't expected and and may find out at the basis the employees are not happy people the people are who are supposed to make the beds up carefully uh they they're underpaid uh they they're not proud of the place uh they're sabotaging the place so unless you every Hotel um the outstanding hotel is one that says our employees our marketers our clerks the receptionists from the moment someone comes in everything should go right as expected as we have designed our brand to say to people and and so we must have we must get the best employees pay them the best we can pay and then we'll be a successful business thank you very much uh so there's one question uh from a viewer um I also actually thought about it when I when I read your book because it's um there's so many new developments and Technologies being introduced and uh these few are now wonders when are we gonna reach the point where actually marketing 5.0 becomes reality or becomes true and where we reach this state of Ideal customer Journey well here's the thing uh the digital Revolution was the big thing to happen and that's what we talked about in uh Five Point uh 4.0 originally and then all the tools came out in 5.0 and um we're we we're never going to be perfect in our marketing there will be mistakes made all the time um but the thing is that we should have the mantra we're in the business to create value in terms of not what we think value is but what we think is value in the consumer's mind and in the minds of our employees and the minds of our suppliers and Distributors so basically uh we are aiming to be an authentic firm uh standing behind every claim we make the brand is our it could easily be damaged it's worked on all the time we need you know to be good as a company you better have three good managers in in the marketing area a good customer manager who knows how to attract uh and serve good customers a good product manager who brings the latest things that we can offer to Consumers to excite them and so on and a good brand manager who can keep on top of the brand all the time and making sure that it sends the message the right messages that uh describe why how we're adding and creating value for the world for Better Lives to be led by more people and so specifically in the P2P industry because that's another question um the fears one viewer says there we heavily rely on relationships in world of mouth marketing uh so do you think there will be a delay in terms of how quickly to B will adjust to these ongoing developments or what is your view on that well B2B is uh very much is larger marketing than even consumer marketing because behind every product that is sold to the consumer there was so much work so many business to business transactions to get the shoelaces and the shoes and the leather and all that so B2B marketers are they're often sales driven too uh but I I think uh they are on top of things too remember take car manufacturers cars are bought not only by consumers but they are bought by other divisions that want a whole set of cars for their people or trucks and so on and uh B2B marketing um whether it's chemicals or trucks or whatever uh has to be run by people who as a matter of fact B2B marketers usually know the customer much better because they have sales people talking to customers and they should be able to adjust more into the real mind of anyone they're selling something to then even the consumer marketer who doesn't know and Joe versus Bob or Robert that well anyways I'm very enthusiastic about marketing 5.0 it's basically about uh bringing all these new developments to the mind of uh traditional marketers so they move into the digital age and it's not enough to to know your in the digital digital age of marketing but to do your marketing digitally yeah as well as traditionally yeah and we'll have more to say about that in these we're coming out with 6.02 because there are other new developments that uh professional marketers are anxious to hear about yeah you told me uh 6.0 is coming out soon but in the meantime it's still marketing 5.0 so uh one viewer is wondering what key qualifications do you need as a marketer uh to actually succeed in today's marketing world and I'm gonna add one question to it is it actually uh one uh key qualifications or does it really depend on the area within marketing oh I I think that um that all areas of marketing uh have to go digital now and they also have to know about these new techniques which we didn't have a chance to talk about um we did talk about Ai and the idea of the algorithm and so on uh all of these are relevant to all forms of marketing uh but try to remember that a lot of marketing is product marketing but products really exist as devices for delivering a service and there's a lot of talk increasingly is keep your mind on the service or the value we're trying to train to create through the means of a product now the other thing that's happening is many products are becoming dematerialized uh we used to um in order to listen to music we had to buy records now we just uh sign up with Spotify uh we used to get a physical newspaper now we get it all on on our computer um so there's a lot of dematerialization going on which is good because we're in a world of climate change and uh heating a world that is getting warmer because of of our basic sources of of Supply which is the oil industry and we all have to be careful about and how much product in the earth carry uh and the elite materialization that's taking place is pretty helpful to reduce the amount of physical product and getting us to more to the purpose of products which is service yeah well thank you for your questions uh uh very much there's so many more questions that people want to uh hear about like your opinion about um so one of it is uh there's like a specific artisanal one-of-a-kind product you mentioned and in reality we faced limited targeting possibilities and so philucadler from your Viewpoint how would a marketing strategy a marketing 5.0 strategy look like uh that could still be successful with these limitations that we're facing well uh limitations are opportunities they may be uh disasters for some but opportunities for others uh those who uh people should never say well the world is pretty settled in there are no new opportunities not at all and I often give a lecture on how some things were were too settled and and people were brighter enough to to break into them for example who would ever charge so much for a cup of coffee uh when coffee a coffee bean is is just a few cents why Why Pay four dollars for a cup of coffee or an ice cream that is uh as expensive as it is today when it's a good one so there's always ways to either come out with the lowest cost or the highest cost and there are always new things to be added to any uh area of of enjoyment so I'm all all good marketers are optimists and they're creative people too great um so we we don't have so much more time but let's do two more questions so one question is um how about the non-profit sector what challenges and chances are important to consider in 2023 yes well I did a lot of work with non-profit firms like the YMCA and the Very and the companies that are environmental firms and so on uh do you know originally these firms were places that um people with degrees in marketing went to because they didn't like businesses much as the non-profit purpose uh and I had to spend a lot of time convincing non-profit firms uh that basically they are businesses too they're not businesses to make big profits they are businesses to grow and create more value for people and uh I even wondered whether we should how much to pay people who are CEOs of non-profit firms because it gets a little uncomfortable and it's a non-profit firm paying millions and millions of dollars to the CEO and some some bad cases occurred like that but we need a non-profit world as rich as as uh as the for-profit world uh we we need more organizations that are there because they care and and that profit making firms cannot pay attention to certain problems and the question really has to do with uh whether education should be for-profit or an after-profit and whether Health should be for-profit or not for profit and companies and countries differ in that and I think some of the very basic things like education and health have to be more of a non-profit uh aspiration thank you very much a totally agree agree on that and uh one funny short question for the end uh what is your view on social media channel channels like Tick Tock and how do you see how do you think will they be relevant in the future yeah well I think um the different uh social media platforms and I have a whole book on the subject uh are important uh Facebook is going through changes now uh Instagram went through great changes uh Tick Tock has caught everyone by surprise it's it it it it's allowing more people to become visible around the world uh all of a sudden for dancing in a funny way for five seconds you know and so on uh Tick Tock some people want to rain rain and then because they think it's taking too much attention and hurting some of the social media events just like another thing happening in the streaming movies have become uh a source of discontent because people then end up watching one thing for several night evenings when they should be watching different movies or doing other things by it's using up their Buy down to just sit and watch a movie a screaming movie for a long long number of days lots of things are happening but they're all uh challenges for for the creative marketers around us thank you very much Philip kotler um also thank you for you dear audience uh just so you know this interview will be recorded and available on YouTube next week and also uh we will include a link to the presentation uh in the comments of the YouTube video also Philip kotler uh and I were having two more interviews coming up one on the topic of regeneration and one on the topic of entrepreneurial marketing and I'm very excited uh to be asking more questions and also to giving you Their audience the opportunity to ask your own questions as part of these live interviews uh Philip kotler thank you so much for your time it's such a great uh it's so nice to really be in touch with you now on a more regular basis and uh thank you so much for your ideas and thoughts on Modern marketing and I look forward to seeing you very soon thank you Julia and I enjoy very much your questions they've made me think and almost maybe another book will come out of my thinking about the things you've raised questions about in the audience raised questions about thank you right until the next time until the next time bye [Music]