all right so my name is Christian Cruz I'm a attorney in Florida I've been an attorney for 15 years since 2005 uh practice in real estate and probate I'm also a real estate broker and I am now a full-time real estate investor I've been investing in real estate um on and off for about 10 years and uh started doing it full-time about four years ago wow and yeah now I I specialize in uh in a pre forclosure uh properties gotcha and the pre-foreclosure is different than pre- probate I'm sorry pre- probate pre- probate properties yeah okay so why don't you explain too but pre- probate May so maybe just uh start off explaining what it means for probate in Florida and then we'll explain what pre- probate means okay so a probate is uh the the legal process by which a pro any property that's owned by someone who passed away to be transferred to their heirs that's a probate so when when somebody dies with a house in their name in order to get it out of their name they need to go through the legal process of probate there is a there's a field or a niche in uh real estate where a lot of people are looking for probate properties because that's basically when the cas at least in Florida we have a you have to go through probate to transfer these things so it's it becomes public record so once it hits probate the the the family of the decedent has an attorney they've filed with a court they've declared to the world that this is a probate property and likely it needs to be sold and so the airs start getting a bunch of phone calls and and letters and stuff like that pre- prob probate is trying to get to these properties before it hits the courts that way the idea is there's less competition uh there's usually a reason why you know especially if it's been in pre- Probate for a while there's a reason why it hasn't gone to probate so there's less competition uh and you know you become the first actor so you you get to build a rapport before anybody else so having prepr probate and probate um the death does not necessarily kick off probate like the death of somebody does not necessarily not automatically no the in in in Florida you have to file a uh file a case that's what that's what a probate is right so that's what kicks it off there so hey how you doing guys the right link oh yeah there was that issue it happens it happens yeah so um but yeah so we were talking about something has to happen an event has to occur to kick off the probate process then you're saying your focus is identifying the home in that window from when that someone passes until that event that kicks off correct right right and you know usually what what I'm looking for really and this applies to really any any property that I'm looking for but um specifically in in these probate pre- prob probate cases I'm looking for a situation where there's equity in the property where they're losing Equity either through foreclosure you know taxes code violations uh so The Heirs have to act in order to protect their interests their inheritance okay so those two things plus there's a barrier preventing them from solving that problem so generally that means they don't have the money to hire an attorney they're not familiar with the process they don't even know this person in fact one of uh one of my biggest deals ever um the the the air that we wound up finding had no clue that his brother had this house that was actually very valuable in um in Fort Lauderdale Florida and so we wound up contacting him um so that happens too so when you have those three elements you you find and I find in in pre- Probate you you find those elements quite a bit gotcha so Dave I don't have the experience to ask intelligent questions on this topic so I'm gonna let you lead so start us off and I did come in a couple of minutes late so I apologize guys like I I said it was uh I was trying to figure out link to to get on here but um so did we do an introduction of of uh Christian that's a good one a good one guys I want to tell you it's it's not often that I learn something brand new and I had the novel experience of actually learning something completely brand new from Christian and this was just two weeks ago so and I honestly believe it's going to be a game Cher for my uh for my business uh and and we always are looking for ways to automate and and to to be able to bring it to you guys as well so number one introducing Christian Christian is an attorney here in Florida though he doesn't just invest here in Florida you you've been doing some through uh uh a couple of the non uh probate States the uh the the non-judicial states as well uh you also he he also cut his teeth in a very unique Niche which goes perfectly with what we do in that the state actually used him to find heirs on and if you can if you can uh clarify exactly how how this applied but uh it was on overages in foreclosures and in in uh tax uh tax deed uh foreclosure overages and such you were actually tasked by the state to find the missing owners correct of the property Y and in so doing you were able to uh help them get this and it's just one step over from being able to create deals right from opportunities like this and so that's one of the really cool things about about Christian uh and and you're also uh a a investor that's that's targeting the pre- probate Market which is what we're we're discussing a lot of today so uh number one obviously and and I think uh uh Steve probably at least started on this Trail have you already told us a little bit about yourself and what uh uh what makes us want to listen to you today barely yeah me yes you yeah I started I started talk I started talking about myself I don't know if that made anybody want to listen more but fair enough fair enough so tell us a little bit about the about the history in regards to finding the missing errs and how that came about and how you've been able to leverage it in your business right so uh I I went to court one time uh because uh this my clients had paid had purchased a house in foreclosure didn't know there was a second mortgage on it and so as you know or there there was a first mortgage on it they they they bought and bid on a second mortgage so they were basically getting getting hosed uh so they they hired me to try to get their their money back and I said well this it's a long shot but I'm going to try so I go to court and I'm standing there with this other attorney who's trying to claim the Surplus right and so we're we're fighting it over and I and I convinced the judge who happened to be retiring at the time so he was in a good mood and wanted didn't really care um and he gave my clients you know the the the the the Surplus the money back right their bid back and and the the attorney that was doing the Surplus turned to me and said man you just cost me 2500 bucks and I go I look at him and I'm like wait a second that was like 10 minutes of time and he's getting 2500 bucks I'm like I gotta I gotta look into this so I started getting into uh surpluses right and turns out after people overbid on on foreclosures there's a surplus there's extra money sitting there and what the state did was they had a rotator system that you can get on and they would automatically appoint you to to find people who are if they don't claim it in time to uh to you know you would claim it on their behalf sure so it's a great little niche great little business and so I was in order to do that I had to have a private investigation company and be a lawyer so I did that we were getting appointed on cases for like five or six years it was it was a great business and we got really good at finding people finding owners finding heirs right part of the marketing of it was identifying the properties that were going to be surpluses and marketing to those owners so we had an automated process for that um so I did that for about five or six years until um we they they started the state started uh talking about canceling the program and at that point we said okay we got to do do something else and so what we transitioned to because we already had the knowledge of of locating you know dealing with forclosures all the time we knew how to find foreclosures we knew how to find owners we knew how to find airs we already had a system for marketing and and Gathering these things so we transitioned over to that and U that's what I've been doing for the last about four years full-time excellent excellent so with that and by the way you say that the state started winding down the program there still is and and uh if if I'm not mistaken uh in every state there is a place with the state that basically holds and and and cataloges money that is actually owed uh to people there's o overages there's bank accounts there's uh refunds so on and so forth It's if I'm not mistaken because I actually was a beneficiary of of that uh that's another story but uh but it's like one in one in three or one in five people have money owed to them that they have no idea is actually there it's billions of dollars it's big business it's billions of dollars there there are big players out there that all they do is get claimants to you know they they f the forms for them and they go make the claims and make a percentage of it I actually use it uh nowadays when I'm doing uh the the preforeclosures pre pre- probates and the unknown airs found money scenarios I use that as a additional service to to kind of uh Grease the wheels and build rapport just to let you know you know your relative had this house but also yeah has a bank account that that was just sitting there and just as an additional service I'd like to uh I'd like to help you get that money that's a good idea I actually have used that uh numerous times and and has had pretty good success um I don't know maybe you could actually make it as an additional income stream but that is something that we've done um so what were you you brought up that that big deal you brought up that big deal let's talk about it I understand that you actually made about $250,000 profit on the deal without rehabbing it without uh any any uh real touching of the property you just solved the the situation in a month in a month I made in a month all right rehab no repairs no cleanout not not a drop of paint nothing it was all just putting the deal together and U you know it was it was it was a that was that was my biggest deal with pre- probates now I've also gotten some other big deals but that was definitely my biggest um it was a it was a pro it was a property that was in a neighborhood right off of Los Solas in in BR in Lo in Fort Lauderdale and for you guys that don't know that area that's a very hot high-end um you know trendy upcoming you know just it's a near downtown very desirable neighborhood and this house was just sitting there empty vacant just rotting you know uh in the middle of this neighborhood and the the way that I found it was actually through uh code violations right one of my favorite ways to find deals is through code violations so I looked for The Telltale you know lack of Maintenance uh you know High grass and weeds and this one comes up and not no probat been filed but I can tell that it had the you know the EST at the at the end of the name uh so I knew it was the the person who owned it was deceased but you know no nothing has been filed yet so it was still sitting it was still in in the deceased person's name and there was a bunch of code violations it was in foreclosure right so all these issues and it had a ton of Equity I mean the just to give you numbers this thing fixed up was worth over a million dollars the the mortgage was like $250,000 okay so there was a crazy amount of equity in the property so we did what we do we started we started you know researching and trying to look for the air and we actually found like a a a stepbrother or like a half brother that lived you know the West we're in Florida they live somewhere in the west coast and of of of the United States and um this guy we talked to him and he was you know probably in his his 70s at the time and we said hey and he's driving around it's like a Tuesday right and we call him up we say hey uh do you know you know this this person that has a a property in for Lauderdale oh yeah that's my half brother you haven't talked to him for a long time you know kind of lost lost track of each other you know years ago he said we're like oh okay well it seems like you're the only Heir how would you like $50,000 and he was like great you know it's Tuesday he's driving around his truck and he's getting he's like 50 Grand awesome so he agreed to it uh we sent we sent him the paperwork we go in and we we do the probate um as we do the probate we're marketing the property right as we do the probate we are in this case we didn't really need to repair it but we were we markeing the property um we got the okay from the court we were we lined up a buyer and from the time that we I think we took I think actually we were we were marketing we took title on in November first week in November uh and we actually closed the first week of December and we wound up picking it up for it wound up being about $300,000 and we sold it for 600 like $600,000 and then you take out some closing cost and this and that the other thing want to being about 250 not bad not bad what were what were the specific uh types of of code violations was it for the rehab uh or or was it for like a batement leans or such uh the the you mean what what type of codings were on there that that I found uh they were maintenance that that keyed on to this deal there were maintenance issues I always look for maintenance and nuisance issues so if you know bees are a big thing like you know I don't know why that's a that's that's a category of lean but that that's one right so any any house that has bees in it for the most part nobody's living in right that tends to be a good one m maintenance issues uh High grass and weeds I always search by high grass and weeds um you know anything like that I avoid things like you know uh if there's you know unpermitted work that's really not you know if somebody's doing work on it that's probably not the yeah so I look for basically things that are going to show indicators that the house is being abandoned has been abandoned nobody's paying attention absolutely so now this one did not this one was in foreclosure you were saying so the taxes were current on it the taxes were part yeah yeah the tax sure so so um now in regards to finding the heir the the half brother and such uh what was your what was your process what what do you do to find these people uh okay in that one we looked for the uh first just the obituary right to see who's the obituary tells you so much um tells you you know brothers and sisters kids mothers and fathers and all that information in this particular case there weren't there wasn't an obituary with a whole bunch of information so what we did was we then uh ordered the we ordered the death certificate and information right there yeah Florida you can order the death certificate and they they they'll give it to you minus the cause of death which you don't care about anyway so we took the death certificate we look for is the informant uh and because usually the informant is going to be the closest person to in proximity and probably relation to the person who passed away so we got that then we what was it I think then we contacted that person it was his it was like his boyfriend or something so we called him um he he told us about some long lost brother somewhere else and um we wound up find I forget exactly how we did it but we wound up finding him um you know in some other state in in the other side of the country uh and that W up being the right guy excellent so by the way uh guys a couple of real quick tips from What he's actually telling you on the obituary side of things there are two uh two points uh that you can go and actually get some additional information so obviously one of the the easiest things to do is Google someone and and there's a site called legacy.com that gives all sorts of of of U obituaries out there now the thing about the legacy is that it goes most most of the time in line with the uh with the newspapers and the Publications so they're usually done on a perw basis you know where where they're charging and so sometimes you'll get this person passed away blah blah blah you know in in 2018 and gives the date and and at lease the state but then it'll also tell you where the funeral home was now you Google the funeral home and you look up the obituaries in the funeral home and that's where they will often give you the full story which is what uh uh what Christian was talking about with the family members the the life story and all that stuff because they're doing the funeral so they tell the story and it's included in their package so that's that's actually a place where you can get even more information and it is so important that you get that death certificate if you can't find anything else being able to get access to that death certificate which if you can't get it in in your state there is a possibility that your attorney kept and that's worth spending an extra 20 30 bucks whatever to get it because uh it it tells you in all of in any state date that we've seen the death certificate it's got uh most often it's got the ma mother and father's information it has it doesn't give you the social but it tells you where it was uh it was actually uh issued uh often it will tell you what their career was what their marital status was and who the informant was you can literally get so much information off of that death certificate that that most people won't even think to look at and in there I mean the one that you guys have heard me talk about the three housee package uh we could not find the the uh any family members and so on and so forth but we found out number one where his social was uh was from we saw his career was cosmetologist okay uh and we saw that he was divorced and uh that he was from New York and and it actually gave the city and and and state where where it was issued so now I know this isn't necessarily politically correct but we make assumptions in our business we jump to conclusions we we come up with Solutions with with things here I see the guy who was a cosmetologist what does that tell me it tells me there's there there is a a lot of people in that in that career that uh have uh you know that that are going to be uh you know in in that section then there is the fact that he was divorced so I I assumed or I jumped to a conclusion that maybe he made his life choice in uh in later on in life and then he and that's why he was divorced I actually looked up the state I found out that he was divorced in that state there was a lean against him from his ex-wife when I Google when I skip traced his ex-wife there was a person with the exact same name but Junior in that house and turns out that was the son and and we were able to work out a deal so there is so many pieces of information that you can get from a death certificate that that can help you in in so many additional ways so just a just a side point to uh to what we're discussing so right now you are primarily dealing with the prepr probate situations and you are actually going into one of the the uh coolest things uh I read an article that you wrote uh a couple weeks ago getting into niches yeah and and one of the the things that we always are discussing is whether you go wide or you go deep right and can you share a little bit on your feelings on these niches that or niches that you that uh that can give you and it doesn't have to be pre-pro it can be in any number of areas and how you utilize them and how you're able to scale them too so as a you know what the article I think was titled like uh or I had a visual like you know living being a a real estate investor is like a modern day hunter gatherer lifestyle sure it's it's Peaks and valleys it's you're going from one deal to another and you know what what I kind of craved after after having that con consistent business was having a consistent monthly income right and I what I was doing was basically going from deal to deal looking for this looking for that and it wasn't it didn't give me the consistency that I wanted so uh I started thinking about it I said look you know I if you go into a niche if you really like let's say honing on pre- probates right there is a certain way to Market to that to my sellers that I'm G to Mark that's going to be different than if it's a divorce right there's a channel that I'm going to use to Market to my sellers that's going to be different than an eviction right or a foreclosure foreclosure it's happening next week I'm going to try to pick up the phone and call them or I'm going to text them or something like that if if it's if somebody just passed away I'm not going to text them and and try calling them I'm gonna I'm gonna give them different messaging and a different channel right sure so if you build out that channel for that Niche so I'm marketing a certain way I'm messaging a I'm getting a list first of all right I'm systemizing how to get that that list I'm systemizing how I'm going to send out the marketing my messaging is is consistent how I acquire and follow up you know follow up and acquire properties is the same right and then how I dispose of them you know that that becomes one channel and if you can operationalize that then you can you can Auto kind of automate how that's how that's running then if you want to grow you can replicate that in a different Niche or you can add a different Channel okay that's that's what the article is about oh absolutely and and by the way one of them is asking if if we can post that article in in the group uh very good very good uh where are you uh one of the questions uh amid is asking where are you pulling your prepr probate data at this point a lot of the pre- prob probate data is is in Florida is coming from public records um Florida is really really good about giving you access to a lot of different types of Records so you can mine a whole lot of deals and a lot of data from there um I know that other places aren't as giving about it um so you know the the you can look for distress you know like you can look for pro uh foreclosures that are also a pre-pro property you can look for tax sales that are also in appropriate situation um another way that I've done it is through Legacy there's a uh they have a uh like a a a system or like a little tool called obit messenger and what that does is you enter your your uh keywords that you want it search for you every day and this is a free service by Legacy called obit messenger and you press and you you set it up up and you have your keywords and then every day they'll send you a list of people who whose obituaries match that criteria so for example what what what kind of examples could you use in so for example um I I I just got one today from from obit messenger and it says um you set up like I set up keywords for Port St Lucy which is one of the areas that I like to buy in right invest in Port St Lucy is near me so I put in the keywords Port St Lucy and I I limited it to the um the the newspaper where where where those obituaries would be posted if you died in Port St Lucy so in this case like TC Palm is the name of the newspaper so you can pick the newspaper that the O bit is going to come from and the keyword that match it um so I set that up and I I hit go and every like I got like 14 today I got like I don't know six or seven yesterday a few more the day before they'll basically send you everything that matches in the last week that matches your keywords and then what you do is you'll you'll match them up with the property appraiser or right exactly exactly yeah excellent and now that does bring a very unique thought process here um that's fresh that's some seriously seriously fresh data yes okay that we're talking about within within days of the passing right days to weeks of the passing how are you actually utilizing that information are you actually reaching out are you co- calling are you mailing what are what is your process when it's that fresh yeah I'm saying sending a I'm sending a a large first class envelope with a letter that does not say I want to buy your house because your dad died or something it's it's kind of ambiguous it it hits the pain points so one of the things I did was I I wrote out all the pain points for potential Sellers and um all of the things in those paint points that they would be experiencing for example if it they they have and I interviewed a couple of you know my sellers to to kind of get some ideas here uh one of the things is emotional right they're going they have a Sentimental attachment to to the property obviously they have sentimental attachments to all the stuff inside of it uh there's a practical aspect they need to uh coordinate with um you know loyal ERS and and the funeral home and this that the other thing they need to uh Financial obviously it costs money to to uh do a probate to pay for all the stuff that they need to do if there's a mortgage you need to like figure out how to pay for the mortgage interpersonal right if you if you uh have other brothers and sisters to deal with maybe maybe uh you know your brother was was taking money from from your you know from your dad and it was it wasn't you know you have a bad relationship with them so I took all of those p points and I I address them generally in a letter so when they read it it it will it will hopefully um address some of the concerns that they're having at that moment without specifically saying I want to buy your house because it's in Probate right right okay and uh you've had decent uh response rate from that or a decent response from that yeah the last the last one I sent out was um a batch I sent out last month it was it was actually in Alabama you and I talked about it uh these were properties that were going to a tax D sale okay so these are there's more motivation there okay because there was they were being cut off the ones that are just you know probates uh from from Legacy it's a little bit of a different situation but I sent out the same mailer to these properties in um in Alabama and they the response rate was I sent out like 50 and the I got like 10 responses which is which is crazy but that was you know a very they were going to lose the house unless they acted you know quickly sure so uh in the letter what is your call to action in the letter that's a question that Courtney just asked it's usually call me it but as far as are you coming as an attorney are you coming as a uh concerned neighbor are you what is your uh your your letter that's pointing to these pain points and such how are you addressing it uh and what what are they calling you for what's the call to action itself they I I tell them I'm I'm a uh real estate professional and a an investor I tell them I'm an investor okay all right and um and I tell them I can solve these problems for them okay so so it would be something along the lines and maybe if I could uh see a copy of it at some point sure uh you know that'd be something I'd love to to take a peek at but but you're basically Char Dave what's that what was that H don't worry about it H oh I heard that now I caught it charge me thanks a lot Steve whose side are you on but uh don't don't worry I'm going to be having him on retainer soon enough we're one of the things we'll we'll discuss in just a few minutes uh which is the new thing that I learned but uh but in regards to it so as as a real estate professional you were talking about some of the interesting things you're talking about uh helping pay the bills you're helping about helping with the moving you're helping uh so on and so forth so uh if any of basically at the very end you're saying if any of these things are something you would like some assistance with or or need some guidance with uh please feel free to reach out to me I assume that's something along those lines exactly yeah okay so that makes perfect sense um I like I said I'd love to uh take a look at and see uh how that copy reads AB um so let's let's actually talk about curator ships for a second uh this currently uh we know for sure this is a Flor situation for sure but but I would not be surprised if there's similar processes because generally speaking uh even in any of these uh any of the states the concepts apply yeah yeah and such it's just a matter of figuring it out right so uh can you explain what a curatorship is so a curator takes the place of a personal representative which is basically the person who can make decisions for the estate when a personal representative can't be found or they haven't stepped forward and the estate is like wasting a needs a curator so for example if actually I'll give you an example that we actually didn't so we had a we had a house that was you know had code violations foreclosure this that the other thing it was it was U vacant it was used as a as a like a drug Den uh it was a blight on the neighborhood and you know we wanted to buy it so we we found up we W up finding the guy who owned it died in uh a different state he didn't have any kids but he had a couple of a nephew and a niece who were uh in you know in Florida we contacted them we could only offer them about $10,000 and they were professionals and they were they had money so that wasn't appealing to them they wanted nothing to do with the house nothing to do with anything right so you know we called them a bunch of times said hey look you know I think you know you help the neighborhood this thing just sitting here rotting you know that no no no we don't want anything to do with it okay so we want up finding so we used this curious ership and what we W up doing is finding somebody who had a a very ATT tenuous connection to this property but he had a connection to the property and that was something that we didn't even need anyone can petition for curatorship in in Florida so we petitioned the court to appoint a curator they appointed a cur the court appointed a curator and we made a deal with the curator that we would buy the house from the estate for $10,000 and sure enough we petitioned the court we got the court to approve the sale at that point it had you know 60 70,000 in code leans it had I think it had a mortgage it had all kinds of issues with it and we wound up picking it up for for the 10,000 bucks this curatorship thing it sounds like you know your honor permission to treat the the the witness is hostile right that's that's it right that's it no nobody's and it's designed for when nobody when the estate of the decedent is wasting and nobody's paying attention to it it makes sense right you want you have a house there that has Equity somebody should be allowed to preserve the equity in the house um so you can use that process to do that excellent so so guys if you didn't understand how what he was basically saying in regards to to this we've discussed things as novel as adverse possession and we we where a property let's say it is uh you know it's completely abandoned and the concept behind adverse possession is exactly the same uh in the fact that that when a the basis of adverse possession is you're not no property should be left to language no property should be left to waste away uh and and so the with adverse possession if that property is completely abandoned the secret is you pay the government you pay the taxes you pay the municipalities and they allow you to trespass basically it's St state sponsored trespassing uh but this actually becomes an option in Probate sit or pre- probate situations when it's in a state that actually can become another step uh before that very last step process of of adverse possession because anyone third party can actually petition for a curatorship the next door neighbor feels that the property is is uh in in uh in a damage a blight to the neighborhood so he can actually apply for a curatorship and and take it over we're taking it from the aspect of you know you actually still have to you know the the court is involved in the process so it's not a freebie but you now have a friendly Celler if you worked out the situation and so on and so forth uh it you you now have someone that'll allow the actual transaction to come through I I'll be honest if I had that tool just six months ago that that would have been worth uh easy $250 $300,000 for me on a on a deal that we've been scrambling and just struggling trying to get the deal to close and and work with this is a absolute uh awesome option I know in uh Louisiana for example you can actually as a neighbor or an disinterested party if the property is being left uh vacant and and abandoned you could actually do the work to it and then lean the property and and could do different things so there are ways that you can utilize that concept because the the idea behind it is that the state that the the municipalities don't want the property to be blighted don't want it to waste away so what you want to look for are strategies or statutes and and Concepts in in law that will actually help in those situations curatorship is an option adverse possession is an option this uh in in some states Florida is not one of those States actually but like I said Louisiana is is a an option where you can actually do the work and then lean the property then you could foreclose on that lean or or utilize it uh towards a different type of of ownership or or interest in the property so there's all sorts yes I do need a haircut but there's all sorts of ways you can utilize that and uh that was something brand new that that I learned about from from you Christian so thank you on that can't wait to use it on that first one yeah man I'm ready guys do you have any questions uh for Christian he's he's definitely a wealth of knowledge he he knows what he's talking about and it could be on on the skip tracing side it could be on finding those additional uh you know people that that are looking for the overages and different things like that uh let's see how would Christian advise on going about collecting pre- prob probate data in states that are archaic or not giving as Florida is with public data and and that is a good one we are we are kind of spoiled here yeah it's true um I would I would go with uh the opit the Legacy the opit messenger um and you know or you're able to search Legacy you can go look at an area you can look by a city and go back you know I think 90 days and and search um all the obituaries uh you can probably automate that by getting a scrape bot or something uh so that's that's what I would do start there and then look at the match that up with public records to see if there's any um you know if there's any properties attach that name and then whether those properties are in you know any distress AB so the pain Point still that that gear towards the abandonment issue are are where you would would go for that so things like the abatement lean list as as far as code enforcement abatement lean um uh the board up structure uh leans the covering the pool uh which is a nice one because then you know it's got a pool it's probably a decent property sure yeah um one that actually guys we actually came into a really phenomenal deal we may we didn't get quite a a Tampa Tampa three like the one we're just talking about but we actually got a Tampa 10 uh this this last week uh and it's in regards to a uh an HOA foreclosure and the HOA actually foreclosed on the property um and it was a zombie it had the code enforcement it had the things so when you see those abatement leans and they have novel points to it like if there's a bank owned property with abatement Lans there's usually a story behind it if there's an HOA with abatement leans there's usually a story behind it if there's a corporation with abatement leans you know there's all sorts you'll see those pieces uh we we came across it the bank it had been bought it would was built in ' 06 actually and bought in ' 06 as a new construction the person never moved in uh there was Damage Done to the property uh tree fell in and now there's mold all over the place and such so it is a six figer rehab but we're getting it for $10,000 and the mortgage has been released so that just happened this this past week uh thanks by the way on the uh on the article um so that actually opened up uh we we went to the HOA which is a nonprofit by the way all HOAs are nonprofit organizations they're not looking to make a profit they're looking to make sure the bills are paid and so on and so forth uh and we were able to negotiate a $10,000 purchase so subject to all leans and that's going to be $100,000 wholesale so HOAs could be a great uh option there HOA foreclosures HOA uh leans and such uh John asked can this work the curatorship concept I assume work on any abandoned property there has to well the owner has to be dead yeah so it would be in a state situation it has to be in a state situation and The Heirs basically have to like not care about it because part of it the curatorship is you have to you have to uh notify the person that would be entitled to be a personal representative now there's a there is a loophole to that but just generally speaking you you need to give them notice 20 days so if they're totally not paying attention and don't care then it's great but uh if they if they show up then you're basically out so uh Carl Uncle Carl by the way uh Uncle Carl is is one of the real estate mad scientists okay uh he just asked a question we have had a couple of deals where they've opened up probate and then just uh and then left it once it started but never finished it and that is one that does come up often or more often than you would think yeah true do they have to finish the probate or is there any way around this I know there is a loophole that if someone has passed away over two years in North Carolina you don't have to open the probate but uh is what happens if they started the probate and then just kind of let it sit because arguments between the airs other Le whatever and I'm G in Florida okay because I only really know about Florida um you know actually I just I just picked one up same situation they they paid the lawyer a whole bunch of money the lawyer didn't really do anything and eventually he withdrew I guess he wasn't getting paid what he want what he thought he needed um you know your objective it really depends on the deal you're making with a seller right if if the only asset is the property and you're ultimately buying the property that's your goal right that's the only thing you're you're going after if you can get the the court if to hire a lawyer to get the court to approve a sale to you or somehow probate so you get the property that's it you're out and then the rest of the closing probate is up to the lawyer right um so that that that's you know it's not you don't have to to close there's no reason to close a probate you know specifically unless the the purpose is you as an investor buying the property right once you once it transfers out that's it you're done I mean just whether it stays open or closes doesn't really shouldn't at least in Florida it shouldn't affect title to your property so what I guess what he's asking and and and this is where a probate did get started M okay now one of two things could happen and I've seen this in Florida where the probate got started sat there because of whatever reason and then got closed just without without Administration so it just went through uh it got started the petition was done you know notifications but then some reason whatever the reason it just goes dead and it's still just sitting there and then they actually just stop the stop you know the the judge actually closes the case right because they nobody was doing anything because nobody's doing anything do we have to reopen that case yeah do we have to can you do the curatorship because nobody is interested in opening that case you petition the courts for curators but if it's opened already that probably means that somebody you know there was a somebody that was paying attention to it they were at that point and you could use that to notify from there right but that's the question I guess that's now the twoyear thing uh in in here the twoyear we have a two-year rule where uh after two years creditors are barred from claims so uh if it's actually better if it's after two years because you can do the summary Administration and make it happen a lot quicker and because all the creditors are basically out of the picture sure okay so I think that covers those questions are are there any other questions I had a couple questions yeah go ahead uh Christian mentioned earlier uh with some of those is um that they still have an EST after it I don't know what EST is go ahead Dave you wanna so in Florida and you've heard me talk about this before in Florida we are a homestead State and as such we get up to a $50,000 deduction on uh on our home dead properties uh 25 per owner so husband and wife or two owners could each get 25,000 off that usually equals out to about 800 to a th000 off of your taxes each year which doesn't sound like much to you uh it's not lifechanging but the county literally is losing Millions when you think of all the homeowners million talk about that yeah and so they actually go through the death certificates the driver's license so on and so estate that's what the and they remove it they switch it to estate so he's talking about the ests the Estates uh in here in Florida they're not necessarily all over uh the question I get all the time for me personally is you know you're a broker you're a realtor how can you do this so I was going to flip that question on Christian you're a real estate broker and an attorney but not in the same deal question what's that what's that not in the same deal I'm either a real estate broker or I'm an attorney or I'm an investor but it causes I let me say this I I usually list my own properties for sale but I don't if I'm a if I'm a lawyer on a case like a probate I'm not the buyer if I'm a buyer I farm it out to a different lawyer because I don't want to conflict interest right and I'm not saying that you would behave in all capacities but just the fact that you know you are attorney a broker you run into the challenges you know buying these properties for example the the one where uh you know you made 250,000 um and you offer the guy 50,000 uh have you had any push back whether from a homeowner a family member or anything like that um I disclose that I'm a you know real estate professional and I'm a lawyer um but I I I had in the contract I don't represent you you need to go find your own lawyer if you want representation um you know made clear that I'm not representing the people if I'm negotiating with them that's not that's I draw that very clear line because I don't want there to be any uh you know thought that I'm actually um you know representing them I don't want nothing implied yeah yeah and then Matthew's asking aside from human error is it possible for property to be missed in Pre pre- probate data but Som makes it too traditional probate essentially if we dial in pre- Probate data collection system correctly can we forgo setting up a traditional probate system I didn't quite understand the question uh if they go hard after prepr probate the way that Christian recommends they can not have to worry about I guess setting up a probate system um for for Leen does that make sense if he's going if they're going after Legacy webite right then they don't have to worry like all the other probate services for leads oh okay I gotta I gotta so is is it possible for a property to be in pre- Probate data but somehow make it to the traditional probate uh essentially I'm wondering if we dial in Probate data collecting system correctly can we forego setting up it's two different deal structures yeah um if if somebody is doing a pre- probate it's before they've actually started the process um the way I look at probate deals now not pre- probate but probate deals is totally different than I look at a uh at a pre- probate the probate deal to me is like similar to a pre-foreclosure versus a property that's in foreclosure someone that's just delinquent on their payments versus someone that's actually in foreclosure uh in in a probate in a pre- probate they may they may have completely had no interest they may have interest they may not have the money to do it they may there there's they may not even know the person has passed away there's all sorts of things where that could be a found money situation whereas if they've started a probate they've literally gotten down to the business of transferring the the asset to their their name whereas I have to be very cautious in how I address a pre- prob probate situation especially when you were talking about the obate obit uh messenger uh that's fresh data that's completely raw and and I mean that in emotionally raw in such situations that's why I was very curious how you how you address that for me I am uh I'm not as concerned if it's a probate if someone's doing a probate I'm not as concerned number one they haven't they they've gone through the grieving process in my opinion they don't start a probate nine times out of 10 immediately after someone passes that's right they they have decided that they're going to make the financial business decision to transfer assets I I consider probate a business transaction uh and and so so they are they're getting down to business and so am I to let me just add to that the the with a with a pre- probate the value that you're adding is different than the value you're adding with a probate right with a probate it's you're just a buyer and can you give them cash and quick close quickly and all of that right with a pre- probate it's it's more interpersonal you're you're helping them through maybe they don't have the money to hire a lawyer you're helping them clean out the house you solving more problems thereby adding more value probate they have have a lawyer most likely that's guiding them and telling them what they should or shouldn't do so at that point they're clearing everything through their lawyer and their lawyer is going to tell them get a realtor tell you what it's worth and sell for that much right so you're less likely to get a really good deal so but but the point to you Matt is that you you can do both but they are two separate uh structures two separate business models actually Al together um so if you want and both of them have their pluses uh uh both of them sometimes have their minuses too but but definitely there's there is uh a model for each when you hear people talking about probate investing they're usually talking about the business of of transferring assets has already started and that's where they're Gathering their data from Christian do you have a set period of time you know cooling off period like you know when they get when you find the the opit is it you know like a few days or a month I find that like two like two months you know plus it depends on the person I mean depends how close they are you know um but but you're not overnighting it next day [Laughter] no are you sure now that that that sounds like just the right the right process yeah yeah I try to make it kind of generic and and so it's I'm not I'm not I'm writing everybody I'm not just writing them um so they don't feel like it's it's you know really I'm you know I'm targeting their property and I do not have a title company in Florida I used to do title for a long time and it you know got away from that sure sure let's see Obits don't discriminate against who may or may not file probate should be able to still capture all the data from the Obits uh usually so by the way that might be an additional scraper into uh into the system that could actually be a pretty cool concept of of the uh the probate or or or the obit in and the property appraiser yeah that could uh that could be interesting yeah yeah so uh guys any any other questions for Christian excellent excellent well guys thank you so much and uh by the way Steve when we get uh when we get done here if you've got a few more minutes uh uh uh Christian and I actually and you uh have a couple of things on in in regards to some some very cool Concepts that we'll will be presenting to the group soon uh so if you got got a few minutes I do but uh guys I wanted to thank you again for for joining us on on another Friday uh I hope this is informational I hope this this helps you get some more ideas on how we're going to structure this how how you can structure more deals better deals uh more opportunities uh and and always this is what we're looking to do we're looking to provide value we're looking to uh give you guys opportunities to O expand on on your on your deal basis and guys like Christian uh and and and the ones that we're going to continue to try and bring you are uh are opportunities to do just that um and and Matt to answer your question Never Say Never hey guys what's that thanks for having me absolutely guys thank you again uh enjoy your weekend and uh let's keep this party going all right thanks guys thanks all right so I gotta figure out how to eject everybody there it is just gota wait a few minutes is this where you say h you don't have to go home you just can't stay here oh gani raised his hand bye Gino you didn't even answer my other question about your girlfriend being okay you can't make me [Music] believe I love it I'll talk to you on Monday G that's awesome yeah he's in our other he's in my other program oh okay yeah he's uh uh in the sales training excellent excellent all right John and John guess what we were saving it all for you guys all right I only had to eject two I only had to eject two I love it all right I still w a 10d i can't see who it is I know it that's that's amazing somebody's spying n it's all right no big deal so actually uh Christian and and I had a great conversation earlier before you want to keep this recording sorry you want to keep this recording oh hey great point so I don't have to edit this that later yeah good point just