Stanford has a 94% rejection rate 100 people 94 are walking out with a no there are no vice presidents at Harvard Business School do you want to go to this school or do you just want the brand name everyone has an X Factor of some kind then the reality is you have to represent yourself that way you cannot sound like anybody else even if you do have the X Factor it's not a guarantee you have to have the price of Entry which is the ability to do the work [Music] hi this is Harold sensy with the NBA Mission podcast I'm here today with my colleague Gabriel Soma hi Gabi hi Harold and Jessica schar hi Jessica well we're here today to talk about the HPS versus GSB X Factor what does it take to get into arguably the two top Business Schools in the world Harvard Business School and the Stanford Graduate School of Business sure you'll need impressive stats evidence of academic ability GM GRE scores that are topnotch many applicants have the stats and not all can get in with such low acceptance rates what is the Indescribable or intangible thing that sets some people apart let's call it the X Factor so Gabby what is The X Factor well I think the first thing to realize is that it's an X Factor because it's somewhat difficult to pin it down we often get questions about you know here's my profile will I get in and the answer is as Jessica says if we could tell you that then we'd probably be lying that's the truth but there are certain things that can distinguish you and I think the first and foremost X Factor is differentiation what makes you one of one why does the Stanford or HBS need you in the class as opposed to somebody else who has your background on paper I remember when I first started at the company I was asking Jeremy we're doing a lot of training as CEO about um what does make people stand out for the school he gave me a phrase that I have used for almost 20 years now which is the applicants who get into Wharton and you know and Duke and all these Chicago all these outstanding Schools they're the applicants who when they're given an opportunity they just knock it out of the park the people who get into Harvard and Stanford create those opportunities right and I think that that mean it doesn't look like any one thing right the your exactor my X-Factor your X-Factor are all going to be different but for all applicants who get in the commonality is they have seized control of their life they're not Passive by standers in their experience they're game changers right they if they weren it wer for them why why is the world a place for having you why was this project happened because of you um one of my favorite stories of a client from years and years and years ago was an investment banker he was kind of unfulfilled we started learning a language and asked one of his colleagues who spoke that language for natively to um chat with him in it once a week and that grew to two people and then someone else mentioned it to him and over about a year and at two different banks he developed a roster of 20 languages and 40 to 60 people who wanted to either learn that or who already did speak it and once a week he spent an hour making matches and emailing it out and he did it again in another firm and it was such a great example to me of a leadership um initiating and Leadership that took no title not even a lot of time but he it didn't exist he solved a problem other people didn't even know existed that's right let's take a step back here and say what the X Factor is not for most applicants The X Factor isn't that you were an astronaut it wasn't this idea here that you were the first ever to lend on the moon though I guess that's an astronaut well I would say it can be but it isn't always it's it's not 900 unicorns in a class right it certainly might be and if you've done something that remarkable by all means that may help you break it's never Just One Singular thing right I think all of us at NBA Mission we certainly have our interesting stories and star clients I had an Olympic Athlete I also had somebody who was a doctor who went off and actually discovered something and then decided they wanted to go to business school but the reality is is that's not everybody gets into Harvard that's not everyone who gets into Stanford so who are those non-olympic athletes who are actually getting into these I think as Gabi said these are people who did something where it would not have happened without them and that can be at work it can be outside of work it can be with your family I've had amazing stories of people who took time off work to look after their younger siblings cuz their parents were sick that's I've had kids who ended up raising I think you worked with someone who got custody of their their kids that's right their siblings right this is so it doesn't have to be that you're at the top investment bank or went to the top school there's kind of the price of Entry which is solid grades ability to do the work good recommendations um great work experience but that's just the price to be in the conversation it's not to get you I also think you have to be able to convey what about you made it you know what enabled you to do these things right because you know the accomplishment is noteworthy but if you can't communicate what characteristics what personality trait what values you know set you up to do this I mean that's the indication of what you're going to do going forward right and so I think that's where the brainstorming and the reflecting to help you articulate that um is really important I actually have a great story about that many many years ago um I worked with a client who was um on a hike with some W with some fraternity brothers and they got stuck on the hike and their lives were in danger and he was able to figure out a way to get them out so when we first talked about that it seemed like a nice story it was it was impressive dramatic straightforward but as we delve deeper into it it turns out that the reason he was able to discover that was because of his ADHD which enabled him to hyperfocus and no one else could and where he had then during the course of our conversation he went from feeling badly about having ADHD to feeling amazing and his essay no longer was about I saved my kids my my sary brothers on a hike his essay became I learned to accept the parts of myself that I didn't agree with that I was ashamed of before and it was such a transformation Jessica I'm sorry I'm going to interrupt you how did he figure that out a lot of it was conversations between us um some of it was he had started that process on his own and some of it was yeah I just continuing ask to ask the question well why did you do that and also because I knew already from other facets of our conversations that he did have this learning disability that he had struggled with it and so we put it together that's a great example though of why the comprehensive brainstorming that we do is it lays the foundation for everything I tell my clients to think of it as a brain dump don't worry about whether this is essay worthy don't worry about whether it's the perfect phrase the more we know the more we can connect those dots and discover these things and I always ask them so what so what that you did this right why does this matter because at the end of the day an accomplishment unless you really are the first person on the moon you know the business schools still need to understand what what about you differentiates you what about you you know makes you able to do these things and I had almost exactly that conversation with someone just a few weeks ago because the brainstorming document just wasn't adequate and after a couple of drafts I wasn't getting what I needed and we sat down and he came up with another story and I said that's exactly what I was looking for why wasn't that there in the brainstorming and he said oh I didn't think it was important yes and I said to him at this stage don't edit the brainstorming is about telling us everything let us help detail or what story will you know make something come alive explain something unlock something that's right and also it points to authenticity right I think when we when we read different applications different essays we read them and think wow I really know this person this is not something that they've copied and pasted from someone else it's about being authentic I think when Harvard Business School in Stanford think about and look at these essays they are in fact looking at for authenticity there's going to be what is it 9,000 people who are applying to Harvard Business School the reality is if you want to be one of one as Gabby likes to say then the reality is you have to represent yourself that way you cannot sound like anybody else and I think that's also why it's can be so frustrating when clients come in and they just feel so badly about themselves you know I got an F in school my freshman year not a b deal right and I always tell them if you approach the applications thinking about your weaknesses that's what the school is going to see and so sometimes I'll actually have this conversation with people either consultations with the calls and or or our first brainstorming I'll say let me tell you your story in two different ways and then I lay out their way I'm older I had an F I had to switch jobs and then I lay out my version which is perseverance and resilience and different and universally there's this silence at the end and they're like I like your version better yes and that's not to toot any of our my my hor or anyone else's is to show the the value of an outside perspective in helping you discover your X Factor if someone asked me what my xfactor was I wouldn't know I would be stopped yeah I I would know exactly it's doing podcasts but it's it's help having someone almost like a therapist does although none of us claim to be credentialed as therapists but to have that outside atic value sometimes to have that outside perspective to help draw connections life to your point you know there's an interesting tension because you often get clients who will give you that you know two-page document and say this is what I think HBS or Stanford needs and this is how I have molded my story to fit you know what I think they're looking for and you know that to me is an immediate you know an immediate Ro concern red flag yeah because if you're trying to fit their mold there's probably somebody else exactly like you don't you get frustrated when someone says Stanford's question is what matters most to be and why what should I say that no one else will say right and I always tell them okay first of all for me to answer that question I would need to know what thousands of applicants whom I haven't spoken with and many of whom haven't even applied are going to say and then we would have to find something that is Uniquely Yours and they have to actually be relevant so I did a study maybe eight years ago um during our busy our offseason and I wanted to explore my hypothesis that about 80% of applicants write about the same five topics for what matters most right and so I got about 250 samples of those essays and I extracted the line what matters most to me is and then I categorized it and I was Absol absolutely right pushing outside my comfort zone my family giving back but people get in with those topics right you don't have to find the most unique one it comes down to how those what matters most how those generic topics are expressed all three of us could say my family matters most because they're the ones who gave me the values that shaped who I am today right that is a complet something completely different for each of us exactly and it's the grandmother test if my grandmother saw an essay that said that she wouldn't know it was mine yours wouldn't know right but each of us could still make that statement it's just W yours I think it's important to still recognize that while we're coming up with these or thinking about these things that are very esoteric you know just the X Factor right it's Indescribable the tension is that there are still things that the schools are looking for right and that's in the back of my mind whenever I'm doing a brainstorming I don't talk about that overly upfront because I don't want it to unnecessarily influence the conversation I like to leave it open-ended but in the back of my mind and then certainly as I'm going through the brainstorming document I'm jotting down oh this might be an interesting theme here or this is something that Stanford looks for in terms of things like leadership initiative impact right what what I say to my clients and sometimes it's a little bit of a tough message which is there are no vice presidents at Harvard Business School what I really found interesting looking at GSB or Harvard Business School stats is this notion of yes they have these super high averages for their GM Jerry scores but the spread is incredibly wide their spread is probably wider than practically any other school you would see maybe a five 80 at Stanford all the way up to a 790 whatever it is whatever the new scale is and I tell people that means they are accepting many different types of people with very different strengths right so if someone with a 580 comes to you what are you actually looking for in a candidate well there are a few things U first they have to it is a school as reflective as the essays are it is fundamentally a school they have to prove that they can do the work maybe they don't prove that through the GMAT or the GRE but a 580 with a low GPA and no quantitative work at in your job that's a different Prof you can't deny that right I worked with a professional athlete once who a basketball player who was an amazing leader really like super super super leader charismatic um but didn't have the grades or scores and he kept saying to me I think that I'll get in because of my leadership skills and I finally had to put it in his terms and I said if you're you know advising your manager on what basketball player to bring on to the team and you meet someone who is a great team player always passes the ball is a great representative in the community you know truly exceptional human being but can't dribble pass or shoot they're not going to get in so the first thing is you have to have the price of Entry which is the ability to do the work and so whether that's through the score or not it's different but someone with a 580 I would first say like is this even you know in the conversation then I would encourage them to take it again right is this where you want to be is the other question right I mean especially for a school like HBS which is so intensely academic I think I often ask clients like are you do you want to go to this school or do you just want the brand name and there's nothing wrong with that but I think it's an important question to ask yourself because just getting in doesn't you know you then still have to do the work when you're there and I know there are certain schools for me because I'm not particularly inclined quantitatively that I me I did not even apply to EUR Mo MIT or to Colombia because I knew I would not fit in with people whose mind orientation is so predominantly Financial or analytic I needed more of that balance with the case method and the discussion and the reading um so we've got away from your question what do we look for so with a 580 first it's like what other evidence is there that you can do the work and then we look at the other factors you mentioned is what have you done that made you the one of one and I think the other caution is that even if you do have the X Factor it's not a guarantee you're going to get and that's really just as having Stellar grades and scores and promotions at work and working at a a top investment Bank are a top consulting firm and volunteering just as those credentials aren't going to be a guarantee right having the X Factor isn't a guarantee and I really hope that everybody watching this can recognize that the acceptance decision is not a reflection on you as a person right or your future success or of your future success absolutely Stanford has a we often think about it in acceptance rates I sometimes find it more daunting but more helpful to think in rejection rates Stanford has a 94% rejection rate that's right out of people 94 are walking out with a no and they're not all going to be epic failures most of them are going to be successful and thriving and fulfilled and so on and at some point if you have done everything you are an amazing person and you've had an impact and you've have great grades and great scores it comes this acceptance or not comes down purely to how the school is assembling its class and you're not in a way part of that discussion because they're trying you don't know what they're looking for any the best candidate you know on paper in every possible way can't control Force else is applying exactly everyone has an X Factor of some kind and what your business school results are says nothing about who you are or your potential for success think so do you want to go deep into what makes HBS and GSB so special and what it takes to get into these top programs want to know how you can impress the admissions committee with your applications give On Track by NBA admission a try more than a dozen lessons for each of these schools plus 15 other top schools you'll be ready to tackle your applications with confidence Care on track with oneon-one Consulting with an NBA Mission expert and your application will really shine get started at on track mbaam mission.com and use the code MBA m p o MBA M pod to get 30% off your subscription obviously we've been talking about how hard it is to get into either Harvard or Stanford the reality is is all three of us had had clients get into each of these schools generally every year so the question is you what do they look like how do we help them what's the best way that they approach the application goab I think the point is that you know there isn't a singular answer there are obviously things that the schools are looking for the table Stakes the price of Entry as Jessica said but part of what we do and why we love doing what we do is that we help you figure out what it is I can't tell you what it is right now right but if you give me the chance to get to know you odds are I can right yeah and I think that that all of our clients who are successful in the process getting into one if you define success as getting into one of those schools um they have succeeded across the board maybe not the top scores in every way but they have done they can prove they can do the work they have done well at work they have made a difference in the world world around them whether it work or not and that doesn't mean they've solved world hunger or cured cancer um it means that in their world it is better because they're there and then the other factor is they've taken the application process seriously just about say they're willing to do the application they're willing to do do deep reflection and I would say that's probably the single biggest commonality of X Factor c one thing that there that there's ever a table stake right that is one thing that I have yet to see a client admitted to any top school who doesn't do work right that's absolutely right so much of what we talk about for xfactor might feel out of your control what profession you're in you know what school you went to what your college grades were but taking this process seriously that's totally in your control and what I mean by taking it seriously is reflect talk Journal don't jump in on day one to the essay questions take time to understand what are not even what are the questions asking but who are you um what do you want out of this yeah clients who spend time with us and brainstorming without focusing on a specific school right from the beginning when they fill out their brainstorming not editing by saying oh this isn't relevant but I'm just thinking and my favorite experiences are when someone sends me the brainstorming and they say I got so much out of braining experience itself and the ones do drafts you know who don't just accept my comments and send it back to me 15 minutes later they actually think about my comments and they change my Ed be a conversation we Elevate each other right we have to have that back and forth right this is so much of an art not a science if it were science what got into how you got into school and there was a grid that says you know get this score this score this score Not only would everyone know the answers none of us would have jobs we have no jobs right and I think that is particularly a difficult um experience for people not coming from the US applicants outside of the US very often have gotten into college because of a much more linear checkbox comment I got this score system is very much designed for that and so if we're speaking specifically to them this experience is like nothing you've been through right but it's an amazing experience because you learn about yourself and that is The X Factor that every one of you has control over that's right and I actually want to use this as an opportunity to talk about the fact that if you want to go to Harvard Business School if you want to go to Stanford Business School then you apply that's really the bottom line we've seen too much to ever say to someone there's no way you're getting in we've simply seen too much so that all means if you're interested in Harvard Business School Stanford Business School or wherever you have to do a great application and a great application starts with a lot of introspection work well I often I often say to people like I cannot guarantee your acceptance but I can guarantee that if you do not apply you will not get in your acceptance rate will be zero so obviously we think it's important for you to look at a range of schools because we want to see you in business school it's an incredible experience no matter where you go but we would never discourage someone from applying to their dreams right so if you want Harvard and Stanford and you don't have the scores I'm not going to say you're going to get in but I'm going to say you've got more of a chance of getting in than if you don't even submit the application and we'll put in every the same amount of effort and and energy and focus as any other school I really expected Gabby as a Canadian for you to say whatever when Wayne Gretzky said if you don't take the shot you miss 100% of the shot you miss 100% of the shots you don't take that's right that's true that's right well thank you both for being here thank you for having us thank you for having us thank you