Joining us now, NBC News White House correspondent Von Hillyard, Christy Greenberg, a former federal prosecutor who was an MSNBC legal analyst, former Democratic Congresswoman, Susan Wild from Pennsylvania, and Brendan Buck, former press secretary for speakers Boehner and Ryan. He is also an MSNBC political analyst. Van, what is the White House saying this morning as a response to what Senator Van Holland was able to do with this meeting with Garcia? Right. Since these overnight images came out, the administration, the White House have been very clear in what they are trying to set up these images coming out of El Salvador to look like. Number one, that this is a White House that is defending Americans from migrant crime. And that in a social media post by the official White House account sets up the contrast that they're trying to articulate. In one image, you see Van Holland there with the Brago Garcia, who the administration continues to label as an MS-13 gang member. Uh, we should note he has not been charged or convicted of any crime, and he was given a withhold deportation order which allowed him to stay in the state of Maryland for the last six years. But then that other photo is the mother of Rachel Morren who is at the White House in the Oval Office with President Trump. She was murdered by a migrant in 2023. And so in so many ways as we have watched Democratic senators in including Chris Van Holland make the case that they are fighting for answers and transparency and a judicial review process that would lead to a court determining whether he can be rightfully deported or not. The administration, this White House and other Republican allies have tried to make this a different fight and that is on the basis that any undocumented individual in the country is set to be deported and that allegations of being a gang member effectively are within the prerogative of the administration to lead to the deportation in order to keep Americans in the streets safe. Brandon, what do you make of how the White House is framing this issue so far? Yeah, obviously they're having to answer some some questions they don't have great answers for, but it's hard to look at this and not think that they're enjoying this fight to a certain degree. And certainly some people in the White House think this is a great fight for them to have. Vaughn laid out the contrast they want to have um about how they are handling immigration. Um but also just the fact that we are talking about immigration. You know what this actually reminds me of uh is during the campaign uh when they accused immigrants in Ohio of eating cats and dogs. They were obviously attacked in a lot of spaces for uh those baseless allegations, but it brought the conversation to a topic where they feel really comfortable and and it's where Donald Trump is strongest. And frankly, politically, he I don't know that he's really paid a price for any of this. If you look at look at polling, um he is still stronger on uh on on immigration and and uh there is a story of the economy that he doesn't want to talk about right now. So, it's very helpful for them to have this this dust up. Yes. even on the substance. Yeah. Yeah. Susan, I'm sorry about that. Bren Susan, it seems that there are two different ways that Democrats are handling this. We see the Senator Van Holland in El Salvador looking for answers. Meanwhile, California Governor Gavin Newsome called it the distraction of the day. How do you see it? Well, I would agree that the Trump administration is trying to use it as a distraction from the economy. That's for sure. But I think Senator Van Golland is doing exactly what Democrats need to be doing, showing action, showing um that he not only cares, but that he is using his elected position to get something done. And simply by going down there and waiting, because if we you recall, initially he wasn't allowed to see Garcia and he waited until he could. Um, I'm not sure what happened in the interim, but obviously he he prevailed. And we've now seen that Garcia is alive um in that staged photo by um the El Salvador and government. I don't think they were drinking margaritas. That's for damn sure. Um and I think that he did exactly what people are looking for from Democrats right now. Yeah. You know, I I just I mean, I guess all these photos are stage photos, right? I mean they're they're they're clearly aware that these photos are being taken either they were released by the president of El Salvador or these other this photo which was uh released by the president but also by Van Hal. And I'm just wondering Susan and it's interesting you said that because there's action and you're talking about action him physically being there. He's not part of a Kodell. So there is no official I guess meetings planned or coordinated. But it seems as if there was something that changed so that the president of El Salvador would decide to release Ago Garcia, even if it's just for that one moment where they were having whatever they were having. Uh something changed there. And I don't I haven't read anything to explain what changed. Yeah, I suspect that um the president of El Salvador um took a page out of the Trump playbook and decided that he could make a great photo op. You know, there there's Garcia dressed in clothing that clearly he is not wearing in prison. um and decided to to take advantage of the situation, I suppose, because otherwise Senator Van Holland would have either stayed there or come back and been all over the news um talking about the lack of cooperation from the government there. Um but mostly I just have to say I implore the media not to allow um a distraction with just constant talk by the you know the administration loves its buzzwords. Immigration is the one right now. trans was a big one um not too long ago. They are trying to distract from a failing economy and the fact that they are deporting people in violation of the law. The president is using the Alien Enemies Act as the basis for doing this. We are not at war and the only way the Alien Enemies act is supposed to be invoked to deport uh aliens from a country that we are at war with. That is not the case and it is clearly illegal action by the administration. No doubt. And the fact that you know the Trump administration included in that Saturday evening executive order when they invoked that alien act u mentioned that MS-13 and Tinder were I guess pargovernmental right uh groups that were at war with the United States. It's it's a it's a very interesting reading of that. MS3 is his other buzzword. Correct. MS3 modified that there's no no evidence of and Christie. Meanwhile, let's bore a little bit into the whole legal front aspect. Two courts told the Trump administration that they need to take a more active approach in facilitating Garcia's return and provide details about their actions. In doing so, what recourse, Chrissy, do courts have if the White House ignores us? So, Judge Wilkinson in the fourth circuit came out with a blistering order yesterday that really addresses this very point. And what he what he said is, "Look, you the government, you've admitted here in the Garcia case that you made a mistake by deporting this man to El Salvador and you are doing nothing about it. And you can't do nothing. You can't just say we're going to remove domestic bar barriers to his return should he decide to just show up. No, you actually have options to facilitate his release from custody and you have to do something about it. Supreme Court ordered you to facilitate his release and what you're actually doing is facilitating his foreign detention. And so, Judge Wilkinson said, "Look, this is an assault on the courts and you really at this point have the opportunity to show that the rule of law matters. You have an opportunity to make this right." And the issue is if they don't, really what Judge Wilkinson says here is, you know, this would really be an assault on the courts that would mean the death of the rule of law. It would really just have such incredible implications for our separation of powers, our whole system of justice. He said, "If they can do this, if they can do this to this one man, who's next?" He said, "Political enemies, American citizens, anyone is next, if they can openly defy this order." So, I think this is being set up in the lower courts in the Abrego Garcia case. We have two weeks of discovery that are happening really to get to the heart of if they are doing anything. Right now we've seen they've done nothing. And if the answer remains after this two weeks that they continue to do nothing, I think you are setting this up for contempt, which is what you've also seen in the other court in the Alien Enemies Act case before Judge Boseberg. He's already made a a probable cause finding that there is contempt. And now he there is additional discovery in that case, declarations, a potential hearing to again understand who is making the decisions, who didn't turn those flights around when he made the clear order to do so. Um, and again, if there's a contempt finding in either of these cases, which seems like where we're headed, um, that could be serious. That could mean if it's civil, that could mean fines. That could mean fines that compound. That could mean sanctions. that could be disciplined for the lawyers that could even mean jail. Uh so we're really set up here. I think the both judges that are addressing these issues really understand that their their importance here that we're really at a crossroads where will the will the administration continue to just openly flout court orders? That is the issue here.