every decision to have a child involves something of a leap of faith but some leaps are bigger than others and involve more people this morning we bring you the story of a remarkable family two moms and Two Dads who chose to have and to raise a child together one of the dads is Matthew Pearson here's his documentary The Mamas and the Papas s where are we going um mama mom mama M did you have a nice weekend at your Papa's house yeah every other Sunday this is our ritual after our daughter Zora wakes from her afternoon nap my partner Alan and I load her into the car or bike trailer when the weather's good and head across town to the house she shares with her two mothers M hello Mom Mom hi Zora hi Mom Mom's here too Mom oh you're Mitten my name is Karen I am Zora's mama my name is Janette and I'm Zora's mom my name is Ali and I'm Zora's Papa and my name is Matthew Zora calls me Dada this is the story of how we do what we do how four parents two couples come together as co-parents and yes all four of us are listed on the birth certificate you can do that in [Music] Ontario our story began on a spring day a few years back when Karen and I rode our bikes along the Ottawa River crossed over to the Quebec side on a rusty rail bridge and ate lunch at a vegetarian restaurant that's where we were when Karen asked me if I'd have a baby with her why did did you pick me cuz you're so handsome for starters we'd known each other for quite a few number of years at that point Karen and I were good friends who hung out on weekends we were both single 30s something and queer a friendship forged in equal measure on dance floors and cross country ski trails she was smart as a whip articulate and I liked the way she laughed what prompted me to think more carefully about asking you to have a child with me was a conversation that we had that I I I think you remember we were on an overnight ski trip with friends um in the gatau and you and I were the only two that day that went out for a long ski and it was this like one of those beautiful crisp winter days and the sun was filtering through the trees and we had found a pace that was comfortable and we were talking a lot about our childhoods and about what we we wanted for ourselves around you know romantic Partners or families more generally I distinctly filed away a comment that you had made during that ski around uh conceiving of uh having a family with a woman with whom you had would have had a platonic relationship at the time and I remember thinking that sounds a lot like what I am looking for and how for to it is for me that it happens to be [Music] Matthew I always wanted to be a dad but at the time I was focused on finding a partner didn't I need to be with someone before I or we could even decide to have children most of my closest friends were in long-term relationships some were starting families I felt like I was on the outside looking in and now here was Karen inviting me to join her on a different path one in which we could set the rules and def find Family on our own terms how fortuitous for me that it was Karen who was asking I played it cool and told her I needed to think about it but the truth is I was in a few weeks later I told her so I was on my back porch and I put my head down the driveway and you were striding down the driveway and you had a a bottle of rosé wine you know in your hand that you sort of raised triumphantly and you said I told my mom and and I at that point I pretty much was like this is amazing this is great I was like you don't tell your mom if you're not going to you know do something serious mom stuff is serious [Music] stuff what followed might best be described as friend dating we'd meet every week or so for a meal like friends do but our conversations had a certain weight we talked about the kind of things you talk about with someone you might spend the rest of your life with values beliefs despair dreams we peaked into every corner of each other's lives just to be sure could I raise a child with this person as the answer became clear something rather unexpected happened we fell in love with other [Music] people for Karen and Janette it happened at a mutual Friend's Wedding Janette was living in Toronto at the time I think that you need to know that the day I met Karen I fell madly in love with her the instant I saw her so uh when I heard that she was working on this baby project with this friend of hers um I figured I'd have to find a way to get a stable secure job and myself to Ottawa so I could be part of it while Karen and janette's relationship blossomed Karen and I continued with our baby planning we decided she would be the primary caregiver and her home would be the baby's primary residence but I would play an active role in the child's life and contribute financially and then some months later I sat down in the backyard and I met Matthew for the first time and he brought over a peach cobbler and we chatted and it felt like that was the beginning that was the moment when we all realized that Karen had chosen her people and we trusted that she chose well meanwhile alant and I were swept up in our own Whirlwind Romance when things got serious I knew had to tell him about my plan with Karen I can't remember exactly the the the phrase but I remember you saying it wasn't something that you were going to change your mind about and so if I was going to continue dating you that's something that was uh set in stone was that you were trying to have a baby with Karen I thought at first I could have it all a child with Karen and a relationship with alen and somehow managed to keep the Two Worlds Apart when that proved unrealistic we wondered if aan could be like a stepfather but most stepfathers aren't in the picture when a child was born so that didn't feel right either he needed to be all in it was the only way it was going to work for me having a child is it's huge like it's a huge commitment it's a commitment that is for life and so I was very careful at how I would see myself in the plan how I would insert myself in the plan cuz I love children and because of that I think I was scared of the repercussions if ever our relationship did not survive so I think I was very scared to to get involved in a child's life and then have to leave if the relationship didn't work optimism prevailed by Spring two new households had formed mine and Alas and 15 minutes away by car Karen and Janet and Karen was 3 months pregnant we were four all of us now committed to a bold new co-parenting adventure together and we were ready to tell our world about the plan most people greeted the news with excitement but there were some raised eyebrows some people wondered if we knew what we were getting ourselves into people like my mom how you were going to figure out this whole parenting with four people I mean it was a pretty New Concept to me and anyway and I think I would have just been you're my baby how was my baby going to succeed in having his baby there was no road map for this kind of family there were friends who said to us you should have a kid on your own because then you don't ever have to face any uncertainty around you know custodial arrangements with other parents down the road and I understood it but it was a conversation that never really connected for me coming from a fear-based place isn't um isn't our starting point our starting point is we have a lot of certainty around um who each other are and what we're building together and those were our friends asking questions it was quite another thing to share our news in the bigger world like at our prenatal class you know when we signed up for it whoever was making those calls had to express we're a for parent family and you know you always have to gauge like are we going to be seen are we going to be respected and so you know the person had said no problem no problem so we show up and you know they're all these straight couples sitting side by side when the four of us filed in and sat together on that first night I could sense the other people were a bit perplexed and then curious besides appointments with Our Midwives and a pair of ultrasounds this was the first time we had presented ourselves in public as a family as the Mas and the Papas I Nam my mother coined in a moment of extreme cleverness like the other expectant parents in the course we were soon learning about the phases of Labor pain management and massage it's so funny for me to think about it now but you know I would squat on the ball and each one of the other three parents would take turns like practicing the massage technique that we had learned clearly there was a lot of [Music] enthusiasm the big day arrived I was was at work when Janette called Karen had been in labor through the night and now the two moms to be were heading to the birth center alen and I would meet them there he got there first then Karen arrived she lumbered across the parking lot Janette and the Midwife on either side Karen just came up to me and put her arms around my neck and let go of her weight which is a position we had learned in prenatal class and so I remember at that moment thinking like oh this this is what I meant to do and so uh I remember that was a beautiful moment inside the birthing room was a huge jacuzzi Karen and Janette climbed in alant and I sat on the edge we rubbed Karen's shoulders and whispered encouragement I distinctly remember Janette up by my head really talking me through the breathing and Al on my right hand side and you on my left and the two midwives and I don't know how long that lasted I actually feel like it could have lasted forever it was such a perfect configuration for me and that's the context in which um Zora came into the world we had agreed in advance I would catch the baby Alan would cut the umbilical cord after hours of Labor the moment of birth was a blur in part because I was crying I held up the the baby and announced to the room that it was a boy we had a boy and then one of The Midwives gently said no Matthew that's the umbilical chord look [Music] again we drove home a few hours later in a slow moving Convoy as if we were one of those motor kides that glide through Ottawa whenever a world leader visits alant and I in one car Karen and Janette and our's old Zora falling closely behind in another in a days we all ate toast in the kitchen and then Karen and Janette crawled into bed in hopes of getting some sleep they had been up most of the previous night alant and I were alone with the baby we just took our shirts off and had Zora on our chest and we just alternated every so often and that was that was beautiful and also quite telling of our Dynamic the dynamic we were we were creating and it became clear that we had a serious role to play in this child's life at the time Karen and Janette were living in a small two-bedroom apartment Karen was on Matt leave Janette on a 10day break from full-time School i' taken a 10-week unpaid leave from work alen was on a twoe break from his job the tiny second bedroom had been transformed into a baby room so for the first few weeks of Zora's life Alan and I slept in the unfinished basement we were ready to be called on at any time I would just go to the basement door and flick a light and not have to do more than that and one of the dads would sort of hurriedly come up the stairs and be totally thrilled to take Zora and uh those kinds of things I think really Mark our family and really Mark those first days for for us in those early days there were definitely some growing pains for all of us before zor was born we'd spent hours talking about how our Arrangement would work the four of us drafted and signed a Parenting Agreement a contract outlining our expectations responsibilities and values big picture stuff and Brass tax like who zor is with when splitting holidays decision- making about education conflict resolution whoever did it did it right that was going to be our motto a nod to a shared commitment not to micromanage each other of course once zor arrived the abstract suddenly became concrete negotiating how to parent with one other person is hard enough we have four people four opinions and perspectives and desires which sometimes vary four people who all wanted to hear her first word see her first step four sets of arms waiting to hold and cuddle one baby and two of those sets of arms live across town the four of us had to learn to communicate clearly to compromise and to trust that we were in this together we were family now and when lines got crossed as they inevitably did sometimes we talked about it I don't think we've gotten to a place where we have a fundamental disagreement about what we think is best for Zora and I'm sure that will arise um one day but it hasn't happened to us yet and I think that's in part because we did so much work before zorao was born talking about shared understandings around you know the way we would like her to be raised you know these are long-term relationships that we have we are inextricably linked by our child and so uh it's that commitment to really ultimately being supportive of each other first I think that guides a lot of our conversations one of the upsides of co-parenting with three other people is the downtime something all parents of young children could probably use more of I'm thinking of a photo Karen posted on Instagram it's a selfie of her and Janette looking sporty out for a CrossCountry ski on a wintry afternoon 2 months after Zora was born so grateful for two beautiful Papas who make moments like this possible for mothers the caption says I feel the same every time I land and I slip off to Montreal for a weekend of careless fun I was recalling today about how I also was able to go back to yoga at 6 weeks after Zora's birth and that was because you had taken time off and you came with me to the yoga studio you waited while I fed Zora on my yoga mat in the room minutes before the class was about to start and then you would bundle her up and you would walk happily around around the block for an hour or an hour and a half and then you would bring her back and she would feed again when I tell people about our family's configuration many are curious about the logistics the back and forth they want to know how it works right now zor spends every other weekend with a lant and I she has her own bedroom at our place pajamas books toys everything she needs to be at home good night Sora sh sh them good night Zora we adore you it's time to say good night we also handle some of the daycare drop offs and pickups and at least one night a week take her to Karen and janette's place and do the dinner bath and bedtime routine while the moms enjoy a night to themselves it is a lot to keep track of we're big users of the shared Google Calendar we work hard to work smoothly together um which doesn't suggest tension but it just means it's a couple of extra conversations you know texting three people instead of one like it's it's sort of a bigger circle of communication it works and it mostly works really well so well that we started talking about having a second child a few months before Zora's first birthday the question was how the moms were agreed Karen would again carry the baby I had been the sperm donor the first time around but this time Alan wanted to be the donor I didn't think about it until Alan put up his hand actually and said wait a second um why not me um and that was really interesting because it brought up a lot of conversations about biology what is biology what does it mean um to be biologically or not connected to a kid and um that was probably a big I think that was a big challenge for us as a family in terms of uh having hard conversations unlike you and I for example I think Alan really had to confront Big Life Choices around being a biological parent or you know choosing this family in a very deliberate way the potential was there for the whole thing to go side ways if we couldn't come to an agreement on how to conceive a second child that suited everyone it was complicated in the mix family Dynamics sibling Symmetry and competing needs I think in our in our Dynamic we like everyone to be happy and for me what was most important and what I'm most proud of is to just not only bring it up with you but to bring it up with Karen and Janette just to be fully putting myself out there saying that this is is a desire of mine but ultimately I feel okay with the decision that all four of us took together in the end after lots of talk and reflection we all agreed to go with the tried and true it would be me again a few weeks before Christmas Alan and I took Zora to see my family it's a long train ride so we packed lots of snacks and books and toys our next station stop will be Woodstock in a few The Familiar sites of my hometown came into view I left there at 20 fresh out of the closet and now I was returning at 40 my boyfriend and toddler in tow sleeping that's baby sleeping what baby is it though spping that's Zora sleeping that's is Sora sleeping my parents hosted a meal the next day for my large immediate family which includes four sisters one brother and lots of nieces and nephews some with Children of their own other toddlers for Zora to play with my father a retired High School principal greeted us all in the voice he used to use on the morning announcements we're delighted that you've all joined us to uh welcome Alan Zora and back to Woodstock for at least a weekend indeed indeed yes sitting around a table that evening with my sisters they reminisced about meeting Karen who I brought as my date to a family wedding a few years earlier well I don't know if you knew about it but I had no idea why she was there I just thought he was bringing a friend so what we find out later is that she's checking us out to see what kind of family you come from my siblings have met Karen and Janette several times they treat them a bit like sisters-in-law which I guess they sort of are and they've embraced our whole family what I see is loving parents right and I think that's who you are you and and Al and Karen and Janette what I've seen is is all of you just love and adore Zora to me it's not about the family Dynamic it's who you guys are and the love that you have to give what difference does it make to us how you're going to do it we we were just going to we were just going to love whoever whoever [Music] came it seems like ancient history now but I still remember when zor was born and I worried about whether I would find my place as a parent I don't worry about that much anymore I don't think anybody has any questions about our relationships with her she knows knows who her Dada is she knows who her papa is she knows who her mom is she knows who her mama is and she has I think special relationships with each one of us and I really really like where we are in terms of parenting Zora together Zora turned two a few months ago and we think she's a sweet and clever toddler 1 two three four five 6 7 8 9 10 7 8 9 10 11 wow Karen will soon give birth to our family's second child which will thrust all of us back into the blury world of parenting a newborn meanwhile alant and I just bought a house a Stones throwaway from Karen and janette's no more cross down commutes for us zor what did we just show you what did we just show you outside I new house a new house you see how you see how close it is to Mama and Mama's house how many steps one one one giant step maybe 22 in the beginning we were two me and Karen and then we were four with Janette and Alan Zora's arrival made five and soon will be six two moms Two Dads two children one family it's going to be quite the ride for the Sunday edition I'm Matthew Pearson in [Music] Ottawa