some of you when you say I want more passion it's not what you're going to do just in the bedroom it's who you're going to be with each other you're going to find some of you that when you are even at Platinum Retreat or at your businesses or with your friends that you are Charming that you are attentive that you are focused that you are well dressed that you are funny and then ask yourself each time who goes home to your partner or the partners that you've been with is that the person who goes home or is the one who goes home The Leftovers it's time now to give you some new input some additional distinctions and insights that can help you make better decisions so tonight we're going to have two speakers that are extraordinary and the first speaker is a dear friend of sage and mindes her name is Esther Perell and uh there are fans in the audience we're fans as well I don't know how many years it's been my guess is 14 15 years that we worked together um Esther is really recognized I think as one of the world's most insightful thinkers about couples and what really drives the relationship sexuality and the Paradox is really of marriage in the modern world you know how do you really her first book was mating in C activity which is really this whole concept of how do you want what you already have usually desire comes from something you don't have so in the modern world when you have it how do you do that and then she's just coming out with a book in a few days is the only reason she's not here in person because she has to be on her book tour but we're grateful she was willing to join us by Skype and still do her session with us and her new book is called um the State of Affairs rethinking infidelity and really looking at it in a world where you know infidelity in a world where everything is known right I mean we're live in a world where you can find out everything today there's a digital footprint to everything and really understanding the Dynamics of what's going behind that for people why do Affairs occur can they be recovered from can you heal them and so she's going to do a beautiful workshop for us tonight she'll teach us a bit and then she's going to put us through some exercises to really help us see if we can't uncover and and discover some new insights so this is a woman that I have unbelievable respect and love for would you please stand even though she's not here present and give a giant hand to our dear friend Esther perau [Applause] we all live in relationships we have done with our family with our friends with our businesses we live in a network of relationships and today we live with a set of expectations about our relationships that are at an alltime high to such an extent that there actually wasn't a couple's therapist until 60 years ago this a Prof profession that didn't exist partly because the families existed irrespective of what actually happened to the couple but today the survival of the family pretty much depends on one thing before anything else and that's the quality of the emotional connection between the partners when there are two partners and what I want to do with you a little bit is kind of go over how did we get there where are we at now what are some of the expectations that we have why are we all so inclined to say I want more passion in my relationship when for most of History this concept of having a passionate marriage would have been a contradiction in terms and yet we all want it we are willing to Brave so much to experience that kind of intensity with our partners I look at when things go wrong I look at when Things Fall Apart in couples because I believe that we have the strength and the ability and the resilience to actually overcome these things I look at betrayal because I want to understand repair I look at infidelity because I want to understand Fidelity um I I think that we learn our best lessons when things actually fall apart and I like to imagine a world in which we experience a sense of Vitality and aliveness in our relationships because I believe and this is a line that you've heard from Tony as well that it is the quality of our relationships that ultimately determines the quality of Our Lives on our epit nobody's going to talk about how much we worked but everybody is going to be there to talk about how much we meant to them and how much we did for others and it is the about that experience of relationships that I want to talk to you a little bit so you know until not too long ago we lived in villages and in those villages we didn't have much freedom but we knew who we were we had a community that gave us a sense of belonging a sense of identity and clear guidelines for what we needed to do because our relationships were dictated by rules and obligations and Duty and then when we married you know there wasn't much that had to do with love in there if it happened it was a byproduct but it certainly was not the central feature of it and most of us didn't have a way out and so the only way out that we had if we were really miserable is that we could hope for an early death that was kind of the way out and we moved to the cities and as we arrive in the cities and we have the rise of Romanticism and the rise of individualism and the growing urbanization we start to be a lot more free but as we are a lot more free we also are a lot more alone and as we are a lot more alone we start to turn to our relationships with a whole new mandate because now I still want from you what I wanted from tradition marriage I want from you family life companionship economic support social respectability but I also want you to be my best friend and my trusted Confidant and my passionate lover to boot and I also want you to be the best parent and my intellectual equal and the one who's going to inspire me in my profession and the one who's going to help me become the person who expressed himself at their utmost and basically we develop more and more model in which we turn to one person to give us once what an entire Village used to provide this is the model today one person for everything and for the Long Haul and the Long Haul keeps getting longer and now when I come to you I get to choose you and I get to to experience with you intimacy intimacy which used to be a byproduct has now become the organizing factor and intimacy no longer means what it has meant throughout history which is that we we the land together we raise our children together we weather the storms together now intimacy is into me see and when I look into your eyes and when I want you to look into mine I don't want you to be clicking on the computer or on the phone I want you to connect with me and I want you to listen to me as I share with you what are my most deepest assets and those are not my DIY and they're not my cows my deepest assets with you are my feelings my worries my aspirations my dreams I bring to you my internal life and I want you to validate it and I want you to make me feel that I matter and I want with you to transcend my existential aloneness never has marital intimacy been there to help us deal with the growing atomization of our life and yet we want it we want it badly not only did we bring love to marriage but we also brought sex to love and for the first time we connected two things that have never had anything to do with each other which is marital happiness and sexual satisfaction and we don't just want sex because we want age children and we don't just want sex because it's a woman's marital duty today we want sex that is rooted in desire to own the wanting I want to I want you I want you to want me and maybe we want each other at the same time and that would be fantastic and this notion that sexuality is rooted in desire we can only do because we have contraception and we have for the first time the possibility of separating sex from reproduction and now we want connection and pleasure and we no longer just see sexuality as a feature of our biology we see sexuality as a feature of our identity it isn't just something I do it is a part of who I am and we start to have wishes about experiencing passion intensity fantasy deepest erotic connections with our partners we take it for granted but it actually is really really new so we changed the expectations of marriage and committed relationships we changed the meaning of love in marriage and committed relationships we changed the meaning of sex and then we did a few other amazing things happiness do you know that for most of History Happ happiness was basically for the afterlife if you suffered well on Earth you could maybe be rewarded later but now we want happiness right here right now and it's not just an option it's a mandate and then we change a few other things we used to marry and have sex for the first time now we marry and we stop having sex with others we used to think that monogamy was one person for life now we all think that monogamy is one person at a time and we go around comfortably talking about how we are monogamous in all our relationships we used to divorce because we were unhappy today we end up often divorcing because we think we could be happier we used to choose our partners in the village between two or three people now we have a thousand people at our fingertips and we often suffer a severe case of fomo because how do I know that I have found the one and who is the one the one is the one who is so unique and so phenomenal that for you I'm going to delete my apps you are the one for whom I'm going to renounce the others exclusivity means something very different when I have had sexual nomadism for years before I meet you so we have a host of new changes that are happening and then we can add to that what is happening around infidelity right because we used to cheat or we used to have affairs so we used to have infidelity because marriage didn't have the love and the passion that we wanted but today we often go elsewhere because marriage fails to deliver the love and the passion that it promised and it isn't that we have new desires today but we often feel much more entitled to pursue them we feel like we deserve to be happy and if I miss something I would want that experience and we don't necessarily want to leave the person that we are with we actually even do this in happy relationships because it's not that I'm looking for another person when I look at the Gaze of another but in fact I actually often want to find another self it's not that I want to leave you it's that I want to leave the person that I have myself become and so it's not because we have problems in our relationship but because I experience a sense of longing to reconnect often with lost parts of myself infidelity for most of History had nothing to do with love neither did monogamy because it was primarily an economic imposition on women so that we would know who gets the children when I die and who gets the cows today it is all about love it is the shattering of the grand ambition of love because if I was to be the one and you betray me and you cheat on me then it means that I am not the one but you know from most of History too when people used to say the one and only they usually meant God today when they talk about the one and only they talk about their partner they talk about the soulmate and the soulmate is what we do when we mix together the spiritual and the relational I mean it's a very interesting thing that in our secularized society romantic love has become the most powerful engine of the western psyche we seek in romantic love Transcendence meaning belonging ecstasy all these things that we used to look for in the realm of the Divine and now it's all one person who has to provide all of that and we sometimes crumble under the expectations of such a tall order for a party of Two And yet we're not willing to give it up how many of you would like to have it all with that one person inde the inde the you know how many of you have become too sinical to want that so you see we want today something that is absolutely beautiful and unique but them difficult to achieve and that's this I want one person to be for me stability security safety predictability I want you to Anchor me I want you to be my base my home but I also want you to give me novelty and adventure and surprise and Discovery and exploration and the unknown I want you to give me both to be the anchor and the wave I want you to give me familiarity and I want you to give me novelty I want you to give me continuity and I want you to give me surprise I want you to give me Comfort and I want you to give me Edge and we really think that Victoria Secret will solve this or sex toys you know and there is no Victor secret you know that it still is the responsibility squarely with the women on that one this notion that we can reconcile two fundamental sets of human needs in one relationship is the grand ambition of Modern Love and it means reconciling Love and Desire now when you love the verb is to have and when you desire the verb is to want love wants to close the gap love wants to minimize the threats love wants to know the Beloved but desire actually needs a certain space to thrive it needs an other to go visit on the other side a bridge to cross and someone to wh with whom to be curious about to go and get a sense of what is happening in their own red light district Love and Desire they sometimes relate and they also conflict so I want you to just take the paper right in front of you and just for a quick moment jot down when I love I feel go just words associations images when I love I [Music] feel and underneath I want you to WR a few words in images when I am loved I feel when I am loved I [Music] feel and now and when I desire I feel when I desire I feel and just fill in the blank on [Music] night and under neat and when I am wanted when I am desired I feel fall anybody that wants to just share something that stood out I noticed a huge difference between like the love and the desire and like love to me was like understood safe welcomed accepted seen just all these like like family like uh acceptance I'm not sure how to how to word it but then like with the desire like when when I felt wanted like I felt Invincible one second tell me your name again my name is Coleman Coleman yeah take a deep breath cuz you're swallowing half the things you're saying cuz they W dick right so colan all these experiences of love you felt were like home and family yeah okay and what was on your other side on of the page on the other side like with with desire um like when I felt want I felt like like a god like Invincible um I don't I don't even know i' have to like I felt like a king you keep P you can take your paper it's okay yeah like I I felt don't exists inside of you yeah I I felt Invincible I felt like a king I felt Unstoppable I felt like my true self I felt magnificent I felt Godlike and I felt like a hero and and when you want and when you desire um yeah all right we're all uh we're all filming here [Music] right do you need a moment of encouragement no no I'm good I'm good you're definitely good so I feel excited I feel nervous I feel anxious I feel horny I feel curious I feel intrigued I feel interested um just all of that beautiful beautiful welcome welcome welcome to the world of the erotic you know and what's stood out for you in the in when you look at those two diff those two Realms of experience for you what stands out h H I think like when I feel love like it's it's it's safe and it's like it's calm and when I feel wanted or or when I desire it's there's it's so uncertain like have no idea what's going to happen and that's amazing and it's it's it's exciting you don't know what's going to what's but what will happen next and right right it's like good journey and for some of you and for you that unknown that mystery that Discovery is an exciting trick yeah and for somebody else that same unknown may be a complete threatening trip right yeah just so we not that you understand that very same experience that you're entering a place and you have no idea and it's uncertain and that's why things are going to just surprise you there you find that a a thrilling experience and someone else and often people who actually have experienced trauma will find that a very scary trick the last thing they want is something that is unsure and unknown and mysterious right and that that is why for some of us desire is a a place you can't wait to go to because sex isn't just something you do people sex is a place you go you can do sex and feel nothing women have done that for centuries but when you think yeah we we just check with your grandma you know but when it becomes what you want when it becomes a place where you go you start to ask what parts of you do you connect with them what do you seek to express them you know and part of what you're talking about is power for for example I I think when you describe your feeling of safe you describe something that is not powerful at all it's very profound but it has nothing to do with power it's very rare that I hear the word powerful in the category of love and I often hear the word warn in the category of love but if I if I hear any temp temperature in the category of Desire it's usually hot not warm different temperature yeah and in one you are Brazen and go you want to say something tell me no I was just I was completely agreeing with you like yeah say it in your own words yeah like desire is hot in so many different ways and and and love is warm it's it's comfortable it's soothing it's it's something to be cherished and and are you often experiencing them together is it are they do they merry easily for you no all right tell me the rest this is the masculine right the one word um [Music] H tell me something when you're in the category of the side of love it's not the category but in the experience of love how old are you yeah maybe like three or four or five like I I I Envision like being at my grandparents house and like like sharing a meal and like just it's just pure love and you feel young and you feel tender and you feel vulnerable and you feel nurtured yeah and why what makes these two not come together H I think desire was more like in you know in teenage years or as a young adult and going through that entire transition figuring that kind of stuff out um it was a rush it was completely different and can you have are you are you into women or into men or into both let's not take anything for granted she yeah okay I no I'm into women and I'm happily with my girlfriend here great so and with your girlfriend are you able to be powerful and vulnerable strong and nurtured Brazen and desirous and also able to be held and wrapped can you marry both of those with her yeah everything excluding like the held and wrapped part I think so even after the six yeah I'm the one doing the holding and the rapping ah okay okay okay good can I hear from one or two others just so I get a little bit of a hello beautiful Ester it's Buttercup how are you yes hello talk to me so love makes me feel uh very grounded very protected M safe nurtured um and admired but in a slightly more distant way whereas desire is totally Transcendent umh it makes me feel wild and wonderful and completely liberated both feeling desire and feeling desired I feel Unleashed M yes I want both yes simultaneously that is yes yes and for some of us they marry and they blend seamlessly and when you are inside your own body some of you will feel that you are very much in your own home because our bodies are the homes that we live in and some of you may actually feel that you are no longer in your body because you have been unbounded and you have stepped outside of the physicality of your bodies there isn't one way this is a very important thing for all of you you know as I'm listening to you about I'm thinking of an image from me that helps me understand what I call in my language also erotic Blueprints and I know ja is there and she's going to talk also about some of the other erotic Blueprints and that is when if if you tell me how you were loved I will be able to tell you how you make love not just if you love me I'll know how you love but I'll actually know how your body translates this emotional experience into the physicality of sex so tell me butterup how are you loved as a child as a child honestly I don't remember anything about my childhood um there are some stories thereally means that it wasn't too good it wasn't good but I if I may I choose not to tell those stories anymore mhm mhm good good keep going you're trying to say something well I'm thinking about um what you just said about the body and I'm thinking about desire and it's it's only through my body that I feel Fully Alive and so I feel that uh desire takes me on a Journey from being viscerally alive in my body to other stratospheres so it's not static and the truth is I've not yet experienced uh the simultaneous Love and Desire that I know is coming to me very soon because part of what you do is that you in order to experience what you think is that sense of aliveness you actually leave yourself yes you stand outside of yourself yes but it has to start in my body I the only way I feel alive is is through my body but then it's able to transport which I then leave indeed yes yes and I would like for you to have the experience of actually staying there once I'm all in stay you understand staying inside your boundaries inside your container and to really make peace with this container so that you don't have to leave it in order to feel free but you can be inside of it yes and also feel free that's your challenge now that you've stopped telling the stories of the past there is no greater Vengeance than to feel free in one's own body especially when you had to learn to flee it in order to feel safe yes some of you were taken care of and protected by the people who loved you or who were meant to love you and to take care of you but some of you had to learn to flee for protection some of you had the adults taken care of you and some of you were actually taking care of the adults so that maybe they would get their act together and be there for you some of you could laugh out loud and cry out loud and some of you were silenced very early on couldn't laugh out loud isn't that a strange mtion and could cry out loud which is equally strange and some of you were not allowed to thrive and some of you when you had any need somebody said what do you need that for you have enough and when you constantly I told you have enough at some point sometimes it becomes difficult to have orgasm to enjoy to experience pleasure because pleasure is not about sustenance pleasure is about abundance it's actually about having a lot doesn't matter in quantity but it m it's in permission it's in permission to experience pleasure you need to feel the permission to be worthy of feeling good of allowing yourself to feel good and of allowing someone else to make you feel good so I'm going to say one last thing and then we're going to actually really do a whole cat chat together I want you to think about this people every time you think of relationships you're going to think that there is as in any other language there is a vocabulary and I think when you think relationships there is a vocabulary of about seven verbs that probably make the core of the language for Rel relationship I want you to write them down all of you thank you B thank you so much the first one they're not in order of importance but every single one of them is crucial to [Music] ask to ask are you comfortable asking do you trust that when you ask the person next to you hears you wants to respond to you cares about what you want do you feel entitled to ask do you feel worthy enough of asking of having needs wishes aspirations to ask it's one of the first things we do without words to give how do you how is it for you giving do you enjoy giving does it fill you up to give do you feel that you give just so that you can acquit yourself of your debt you give so that you won't owe or you give in order to feel that now you have a right to ask do you enjoy feeling someone else up or do you feel that when you give it empties you how comfortable are with giving and then on the other side how about receiving can you receive for some of you it is the most vulnerable of them all and this is if it's true in your relationships it's just often either even more so sexually or it becomes the one place where you actually can receive is sexually what's it like for somebody else to give to you do you like the surrender are you threatened by the surrender does it make you feel too vulnerable do you love that vulnerability do you feel like it makes you too little too weak too young what's it like to received can you let someone else do you give to you pleasure you and how about Shar do you enjoy sharing or is are you too competitive to share or do you feel like it's it's a game of fairness what's it like sharing to ask to give to receive to share to take how about taking can you be greedy on occasion can you feel that you have the right to take or do you leave the bigger piece for the other people can you take insect can you take your pleasure or do you just accept whatever you can get how good are you about taking can you claim your your seat at a table this is true in your business lives this is true at home can you take and can you play how are you about playing playing pleasure fantasy imagination it's all part of that Dimension play which you can only do if you're not constantly worried and Vigilant and anxious because play involves a carefreeness it involves a freedom it involves an unselfconsciousness how are you about playing are you safe to play and then the last one is to refuse can you say no because if you don't know to say fully no on occasion you may not always know how to say yes either this is for me the basic grammar and every one of you has one of those verbs probably that could use some stretching some muscle building some further developing emotionally and sexually and or sexually so I want you to know about the verbs then I want to say other one other thing animals have sex we have eroticism and the difference is that the central agent of the erotic is our imagination our ability to stay interested in us and in our partner our imagination it's our curiosity it's not our body size it's not our age it's very different things that sustain desire in the long hul it's our ability to play to flirt to be seductive to tease to continue to experience ourselves as sexual as erotic when people complain about the Les the listlessness of their sex lives they sometimes may want more sex but they always want better and better means that in this experience they want to feel alive they want to feel a sense of renewal Vitality vibrancy that is the definition of the erotic some of you when you say I want more passion it's not what you're going to do just in the bedroom it's who you're going to be with each other you're going to find some of you that when you are even at Platinum Retreat or at your businesses or with your friends that you are Charming that you are attentive that you are focused that you are well dressed that you are funny and then ask yourself each time who goes home to your partner or the partners that you've been with is that the person who goes home or is the one who goes home the leftovers and if you bring home from The Leftovers it's very difficult to also want passion because in a way you have passion in the other parts of your life your the other parts of your life are erotic they're hot you're horny there not in the sexual sense of the word in the vibrant sense of the word you're playful there you're funny there you're attractive there you you connect and when you want to bring passion home it's that energy that you want to bring home energy is very different from performance you have Emily nagoski with you who's going to have a line at some point I'm imagining her saying because she lives with that line in my head that says pleasure is the measure and to allow yourself to experience that pleasure you need to be able to connect with that energy that erotic energy so that you don't just have very interesting live vibrant chats with others and then go home and start to talk about management ink the body doesn't know how to transition like that at 11 o'cl at night from management ink to hot sex foreplay doesn't start five minutes before the real thing foreplay starts at the end of the previous orgasm that's the real thing and that doesn't start in bed or that doesn't start when you're undressed it's the it's that energy before that that makes me sit like this rather than like this this is the catch this is cozy this is comfortable and and I love it but you know the main thing when I sit like this is that I want nothing else I don't want to be disturbed from this place this is the position of the erotic tell me more show up open up take me Rapture me Captivate me I'm open I'm curious I'm right there that's the position that's the position that many of you have in your driving businesses and if you want driving relationships it needs that same body posture do you understand me great okay let's talk together ask me questions or tell me your questions tell me your dilemas tell me what stands in the way for you to have the kind of connection and passion that you say you want to have um hi my name is Kylie um hi Kell hi um one of the things that's in the road of me now which um I've is different to what it was six months ago my situation is different so what it is right now is I'm single mother sorry single person after many years and I have a bit of a conflict in my head because um I feel that since becoming single and finding a whole new life out there is that I have found a whole different side of myself a whole sexual Awakening if you like um that wasn't there pardon said if you like I said do you like I do like good but the Dilemma is I keep in my head too much when I'm there and I'm not in a relationship so the um encounters if you like or um intimacy that I have is uh what's the word um oh not in a relationship um one night stands um whatever like that's what I've experience since I've been single and part of when I first came out of a marriage I was like yes I've got this had to redefine myself reclaim myself and I was happy with that but then OB obviously after a while um then I started to feel not so good about that and I don't know why that is because I I don't think it's wrong if it's my choice and my decision I'm safe I feel good about it but then I don't know I don't know if it's my head mocking with me if it's culture conditioning from good girls don't do that yes I was exactly going to ask you that it's exactly exactly the same good girls finish the sent girl good girls don't have sex on the first night that's number one and then good girls what um I don't know that's what I'm Inc conflict about because I have a very strong like I'm very comfortable that part of me isn't that and I can feel that I was I can own that but then as I said sometimes the head comes in and then I'm like oh you know like I don't know it's just is like what happens what happens tell me something what happens you're giving me one of the B messages for shaming yes right mhm because a woman let's first of all not talk about girls let's talk about a woman who chooses to connect con sexually with someone for whatever is what what does that say about her well I have two opinions that's what that's the conflict my powerful feminine I believe is my true self is that's fine it's perfect it's it's beautiful it's exciting it's makes me feel alive it do you think that a guy that you are with thinks lesser of you because you gave yourself to him on the first date I don't think of it at the time but then afterwards I do no of course not at the time but five minutes later not five minutes but certainly the next day yes yes do you you know do you you see it's a whole cultural system right yes that the that you internalize and that starts to take your experience and gradually turn something that was meant to be nice pleasurable clean beautiful consensual respectful and starts to basically turn it into something that was dirty that was shameful that was cheapening and that you then have to start to feel like what am I going to do with that thing inside of me you know I don't see myself as such but that thing is just like gnawing at me and saying that's right that's exactly how like that's the conflict I don't actually feel that but then my head muts with me and it's like you know I don't know whose voice it is I don't know whose voice it is but it's like and then I stop and go no no no no that wasn't there's a there's there's a man sitting behind you two men sitting behind three three men sitting behind you can you turn to them for a [Laughter] [Music] second and I I want to ask I want you to ask them and I want them to answer you in all honesty because you may not be invented because they themselves may have the same ambivalence in their own head but I want you to pose the question to them and then there's three five other women around you and you can ask them the same question too this is not a person personal discussion only this is a collective conversation this is a cultural conversation in which the game is rigged in which there is a double standard MH in which you know we we we with men live with the pressure that it's true sex that they have to access all the other things which they're not allowed to want so that has to always be in the language of sex and women have to want love and connection and intimacy and all of those things and so they have to go through there to actually reach the sex yeah each one has been given the permission to want one thing only and has to hide in order to get the other thing you start to feel dirty he starts to feel weak and a little boy if he wants the connection the love that he's upis in his family and he's a little child if you want the sexuality then you have to find some strange way to make it acceptable to still be the beautiful smart powerful determined woman that you are and give yourself that permission so I don't want you to stand alone with this question m in the red t-shirt I don't know but you I see you from afar yes how are you what's your name Phillip Phillip philli yes where do you where are you in relation to this decoty this is one of the most fundamental gender conversations that goes [Music] on so you I mean I disagree I think it's you everybody has their own choice and I don't judge I don't you really don't not I really don't okay I don't judge at all okay can you I to talk to her I want you to talk to her and I want you to give her a piece of your mind about the experience of making sex a clean transaction something that doesn't have to leave people afterwards grappling with shame yeah sex is something to enjoy it's an experience it's an experience to enjoy together it's an to talk to her not to me it's fine I see experience to enjoyed together just an experience that energy and exchange of energy it is to enjoy together that's that's that's what I believe is there something that I want you to talk to yes I want you to talk to her oh and I want you to give her something that allows her to know at least from one man you're just one person and I want you to literally speak to her this is an a a conversation by which one by one people will begin to undo the pieces of Shame and secrecy about this that's what you desire then they know do it that's your desire then go for it it's okay don't listen to all the cultural ideas and all the the mind and if it's in your heart something you want to do then but is it real go is it really okay yeah yes of course and why is it you're not very convincing I'm not very convincing no no uh and I don't think it's the screen only no uh um not convincing as far as I don't I don't I do believe it I believe that it is okay like there is if you desire something then you should go for it and if there's nothing wrong with it it's your if you have beliefs we all have beliefs if you're letting them get in the way then if something you desire then you should desire it go for it no judgment no judgment you're judging yourself you're allting other beliefs to you know you judge yourself on what you believe and did you where did you pick up these beliefs are they really your beliefs why n Pastor Mike to the is next to you where do you stand on this one I really don't see where the problem is I mean if you want to have sex with someone you're an adult shouldn't be an issue AR I'm sorry if you want to have sex with somebody and your adult it shouldn't be an issue it's your choice any person that's condemning yourself is you that's it I'm sorry couldn't relationship Excuse Me Andy yes are you in a relationship no uhhuh yes the messages about what men and women are allowed to want they don't just exist in one's head alone and they didn't come from oneself so if women and men are going to set each other free they need to be able to have those conversations with each other um it's not fair to ask anybody to do this on their own that's all and so I just want you to help this woman from the place of a man maybe now you're in a relationship but you may have been with other women in in experiences where away with them on the first night and what this woman needs to know is that when she left those rooms that the person who actually thought of her thought of her in her full person and not just in a kind of objectified used way that's the experience it's like how do you give yourself over and not feel empty when you leave which is the experience that people have when they feel used sexually that's what she's trying to claim so that she doesn't judge her pleasure her experience her autonomy her being an adult woman all of that stuff she knows in her head but that's not what starts to GW at her when she starts to ask herself was this okay can I say something can I can I say of course you can I think that perhaps they would be maybe afraid to say that cuz um even if they think it they wouldn't want to hurt me or say the wrong thing to me because I've just said that I've been I've done that so I think they would be it would be fair to say and if they said that that's okay cuz it's just their opinion right so I guess I'm okay with it so don't you know if that's your opinion it's your opinion just don't like say it you see the reason I asked them is not because I don't think you can't come up with the answer yourself but because I really think that if you're going to be a woman you need to be met by adult men and not my boys you can't have it both ways so I want them to meet you as adult men who either will say what they really think or they will actually try to protect you either way but I want them to meet you at the same level so I saw that the mic was on some with someone else just now hi yes hi my P's probably cursing me now and I'm shaking as a gr man and that's okay I've been in both positions where I've both objectified and used women when I was a sailor and I've been in a position where I've come to a place where it's okay to okay to let that desire out and not only okay where I can actually encourage it and see it as a beautiful gift to me in a relationship whether it be first time or now obviously I am in a relationship and when I was objectifying women when I was using them it was dirty and I made them feel that way and I made them feel that way by cutting off a piece of me made them feel that way by making them feel you like they weren't anything and they were there for no other reason other than to serve my personal gratification and that would come across in the feelings of kicking them out early sneaking away being deceptive being manipulative being an egotistical Pig if you will I don't know if those are too general or if I need to be more specific but that's probably how I made them feel that way I hallucinate and when I was damaged enough to let go I realized that I saw something beautiful the first time it happened and it unlocked something in me or I went holy she is so free in herself to be able to express this whatever it is I see in her right now that I don't have to feel guilty about even myself it it Set Me Free it showed me a piece of her that I hadn't even recognized in me and so became a Beautiful Exchange of two people where you felt no shame in expressing who you are in fact you felt imp owed by it and you walked away from there with an experience that is fulfilling and uplifting not one where you feel dirty that's all I've got Mark yes I don't know how far you are from her but I would like you to walk over [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] never mark but I would like to offer you is the opportunity since you probably never had a chance to say I'm sorry to many of these other women right yeah and you probably I have a pile of I'm sories that you could do because you were a pig yeah not not not by I mean I'm not even going to explain it but you were you you you said it very beautifully you said it with great accountability and I think that you have someone right here next to you with whom you can have the opportunity to stand accountable for some of the behavior that you've had because it's your behavior that has created her conflict not yours personally but that story that exists between way too many men and women talk to her and as I talk to you on certainly not talking to any other women in this room at all I am can I ask you something sure take that gum out of your [Applause] [Laughter] mouth can deal with that because you don't want the tens to go into your gum you want the tension to come out through your words through your feelings through your body through your aect I am I'm sorry for not seeing the truth in who I was early enough so that I could break some of the conditioning that I'd bought into that allowed me to treat women know that I chose that I chose to decide that women were going to hurt me and the only way I could get control was by treating them like they were nothing like they were resources I could use and trade because that was all I knew how at that stage and so to protect myself I brought you down I brought Every Woman down to the broken level that I felt I was so that I could feel okay it's the only way I knew how to feel whole it was never your fault but it's all on you I'm standing right behind you just so you know if I was there I would be standing right behind your and that by putting my hand on your shoulder and I'd ask you and who hurt you my mom and my father and me I heard me they just weren't there at least that's the story I bought into sometimes I won't and sometimes they were but I wish I had a different model at that age to teach me something different and then I don't because I wouldn't be half the man I am today without [Applause] [Music] it where I saw you all bries all towns all the CR to the [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] ground what did you tell him I told him it was okay he's innocent I love you thank you please forgive me I love you what did he just give you what did he just give you a different perspective mhm a perspective that the man there's a whole different possibility from the man's perspective that just a different perspective just I don't know what's I don't know what they're feeling you and I wouldn't have guessed that mhm that there was hurt behind yes pain pain pain sorry pain suffering hurt I would never have guessed that and I don't know if that is always the case but certainly it's possible mhm yeah yeah was this important for you yes very important absolutely very important why I stood up it's very important good because I want the freedom I want that freedom I want that permission to be myself to be my feminine to be whatever that is for me at that time no judgments my choice my decision you know that is probably the primary definition of sexual freedom for a woman it's not to do what she wants it's to accept what she wants yes it's to experience it with dignity with freedom and without the the sheeping the shaming that is attached to her sexual Freedom when that starts to happen we will have a different landscape between men and women what starts to happen is when Marx is able to talk to you about how because he felt that he decided to basically make her powerless and make her unable to hurt him and he starts to give one story of male pain and when you start to experience one story of woman emancipation then we will have a new landscape things we get better as they just did in this interaction between the two of you so thank you very much here can I hear from a couple of other people just so I get a pulse check from you what's going on okay I really really didn't want to stand up but they well you are thank you the really annoying person next to me put his hand up behind my head so that I couldn't see so now I'm stood up so um when we were writing down how we feel um tell me your name my name me your name my name is Natalie I'm from England Natalie hi hi so um when we were writing down how um how we feel when we love someone um MH actually one of the first things I wrote down was scared and um actually like a lot of the feelings like just listen to what other people write it was things like warmth and security and safe and was like it sounded more passionate it was like excitement and and and scared um yeah so I guess a good question would be how do you make it more warm scared of what um oh getting hurt mhm how what what is hurt what hurts you like having who I am as a person attacked I suppose you get attacked by somebody who tell me okay because I there's a lot of ways to fear love yeah yeah I just think maybe for me romantic love I've not like I love my family like I feel warmth and love for my family like and my mom and and people like that but I didn't realize literally until that second that I wrote it down that maybe that's why I'm single um yeah I don't I don't know have you ever left yeah in the Romantic sense yeah huh yeah and were you scared yeah in the yeah uhhuh and has somebody told you that that's part of Love um no it genuinely was a really scary time like it wasn't a very nice time yeah okay okay okay but what I'm trying to say is that I want to understand there's often two primary ways that we fear one is that we could lose the other yeah and the other is that we could lose ourselves yeah I think I'm scared when she's yours both yeah definitely both mhm one stands out before the other um Losing Myself yeah because actually yeah thinking about it the one time I was in love I did lose myself completely mhm yeah you know that means what that I stopped thinking about me that I was all about the other person no um he just wanted to destroy me basically and I forgiven him from now but yeah he just I'm like this happy joyous person and he want me to be like a little warflower that just didn't speak or look at anyone mhm why would you forgive him for that [Music] um because it's just a healthy thing to do I think I don't know it's helped me move on uhhuh okay in my book yeah certain things you move on and you don't forgive okay do you understand yeah he was a really person yeah I haven't really figed that's right [Applause] than for you this is not for everybody but for you if you were to forgive him it would actually be an act of forgetting yourself yeah for other people that's not the same yeah it's not one size fit so but for you it's actually important that certain things not be forgiven that doesn't mean you you wallow in it and that doesn't mean you keep you know but no certain things are not okay yeah it wasn't okay good are we clear on that yeah for sure okay all right thank you so you move on yeah and you don't forgive okay you understand that I'm not saying stay and rage and hate and this and that I'm simply saying in your experience when you go too fast forgiving because you think that's what good people do yeah you forget yourself and you become wolf what did you call wolfl a w paper yeah just someone that doesn't stand up for themselves right so part of your standing up is giving yourself the permission to say there's certain things I don't forgive okay yeah I learn to live with it but I don't forgive yeah you'll be stronger yeah that makes sense you'll be stronger and you'll be less scared to love again okay you hear me yeah I hear you definitely tell me what you just heard that I don't need to forgive him because if I forgive him I'm almost condoning his behavior and saying that that's okay then it's not okay I'm not going to accept that behavior that's that's right [Applause] that's right thank you thank you I mean cuz it just came all rushing back and you just saw the entire destruction in front of your eyes what you want to hear what do you want to hear sorry I just saw a rush come over you yeah and I imagined I may be wrong that you just got a kind of another memory Rush Oh Yeah of what it's like to be with somebody who wants to annihilate you yeah okay so if there's something more you want to add you tell us and if not we leave it at that okay well basically yeah I was with a guy and I was completely in love with him and I believe he was in love with me in some weird way but it it got first very controlling then verbally abusive then physically abusive and then he tried to kill me and then I spent a long time actually scared that he was actually going to and kill me um yes that's not okay so actually yeah I shouldn't putet no I actually think you should be Maj pissed yeah I think you should I mean it's not about what you should be but it's like you telling me I wrote about being loved I'm scared yes you carry a memory of something that was frightening not just scary frightening yeah and if you keep apologizing for him or trying to be good and forgive him you you will stay frightened you will stay single in order not to be frightened when somebody wants to destroy you it takes every ounce you can have and don't say he loved me in a weird way that's yeah it is you understand yeah okay you know he whatever he had he's not there we can't really worry about that right now but he wanted to possess you he wanted to shrivel you up he wanted to diminish you he wanted to do all kinds of things there this this is about a lot of stuff but let's not call this love because that's a perversion of Love yeah for sure okay let's call the things by what they are so that you can begin to love be as scared because this wasn't love if you consider this love you're never going to want to love again yeah this this is abuse this is mean this is wrong this is hurtful this is a power trip this is a lot of things but don't call it love or you will never love again they want you to see around you there's a whole group of people who've just come around you to support you turn around open all the wide oh not going to miss oh nothing promised to you in this life but it's there for us to do to live well before we pray I just want to get a sense and you can all just say one sentence at this point to whoever wants to talk um love desire say the lack thereof the Quest for passion how do you keep passion alive how do you stay connected to your desires how do you not deny yourself because somebody has taken advantage of you how do you forgive someone who betrays you or not and when trust is broken how do you heal it um where do I leave you what's one thing that you take with you from this last hour and a half that we are together what what stays with you what touched you what moved you what did you just think about what did you just feel remember give me a quick pulse check we won't go into it but I do want to know where you are and I think what I take from it is I love me and I love you it's not one or the other and it's really being in that truth of your authentic self and you know checking in that's what I I kind of take from it yes thank you Jessica pass a mic around just see wherever hi Esther um so Kylie I my name is Sarah I'm from La if I was there I would come see you but I'm not Kylie I want to share with you cuz so when I met my husband um I decided to take him to bed on the first night it was my desire um we have four kids we're married 12 years so there are no rules hello Esther um I have a quick question in um different Desires in in a committed relationship so um being a um say one driver and and one with less Drive how do you synchronize the level of desire and stay in the commitment MH beautiful question and I want you what's your name oh um my name is isan I'm from Texas sh one thing I want you to think about actually is it's not about in sync it's not always in syn you're not you and your partner are not hungry in the same way for the same amount you don't measure that you have the same kind of food on your plate eat with the same speed swallow with the same you know chew as many times together this this is your two separate people and I'm not so sure that one person here has all the desire and one person doesn't it depends desire for what but I also do know that sometimes women don't have that much desire not because they don't desire desire sex but they don't necessarily desire the sex they can have if you want more desire check if what you are experiencing is what you would like to have and if you want something else tell him have the courage in one way or another to convey that to him your desire may be responsive he may be forever the one who takes the initiative and you are happy to to respond if he initiates in ways that are inviting to you and make it interesting for you in order to want sex it needs to be sex that is worth wanting so before you tell me I don't have desire I want you to check so I'm going to leave the question and I'm going to take a few more pulse checks and then I'm going to have to say goodbye to all of you hi I'm John from Australia um yes what I take from me is it's it's interesting as to the the meanings which we take to events and situations and And the emotions that we take from it like I I know Kylie and you're a beautiful soul and if it lights you up go and have fun it takes a man a woman assuming they're talking that type of sex to go and enjoy it why should it be a double standard from a guy to a girl if you can enjoy it go nuts and Natalie you're such a beautiful soul just you know to be to be able to be free and um and actually go and and actually go and find the guy and get past that situation you and I talked about that before there's any man would be lucky to have you just be open and be free and and change those meanings and yeah so just everybody that the the meanings that we give to to situations is really what I took and and just looking back at the situations which even in my own intimate life which I get into or don't get into and and what it means to me and and really trying to manage that conversation and and be empowered by it and also then try to S A Certain emotional tell me one thing yeah one thing that you take with you for for you to to look at the conversations I have with regards to my own intimate situations that I get into and to be responsible also for creating an environment through which people have a positive experience or a positive emotional situation which I can set up for them intimately um even though they're responsible for their own emotions but be actively proactive in trying to make sure it's it's great for them as well yes you got me hello my name's my name's dimple and I'm from the UK so the the big piece that I'm taking from this was around the um with Natalie the Forgiveness that to forgive at the consequence of yourself is not okay and that for me is a huge piece so thank you for that I'd like to challenge this notion um I'm disturbed by this notion and we're dear dear friends what I see over here is I see empowerment at the point of being victim and we don't have enough information know what's going on there it sounds like he was abusive and I would rip the guy's face off for hurting you I think you know where I come from but this idea that if you forgive you're disempowered or it'll happen again is a presupposition that I would challenge I think this is I think you're now starting now other people are starting to develop this belief structure as a form of empowerment and you don't have to not let go you can forgive for yourself you can forgive so you can be free you don't forgive to be a cool person or a good person and I understand what she's trying to do to make sure you don't do that but I'm already seeing it spread and I think that's I'm here to tell you right now you don't have to be a victim to be empowered and you don't have to live in Rage to be empowered there's a time for those things there's a time to use your anger so you can separate from it but i' be much more interested in knowing what actually happened what the triggers were so we can Empower you to recognize someone who would be abusive so it never happen again as opposed to just being angry and separating them I understand the intent which is not to link love in any way to something that's abusive and I agree with that a million percent Esther but watching this here again and I'm watching the physiology that's going on and I'm telling you this is this is an excuse is this an excuse to stay angry or an excuse to be a victim and you're certainly not that I don't feel that from you at all but this is a slippery soap that's begun everything else here has been magnificent Esther knows how much I love and respect her but I can't sit sideways and watch this continuing I I'm so I mean here is the most incredible I was about to say before I end I have to clarify something I have a feeling that something is taken so he says it's perfect it's perfect let's do it because my what I was really saying is to one person just to one person in that particular situation where I will feel like you're being you're going too quick into saying I forgive and I just thought nah but that doesn't mean that you stay angry that doesn't mean that you all I wanted you to think is if you try to just make yourself be good you're going to stay in touch with the fear once I heard dmle now tell me you gave me permission not to forgive yes then I started to take no no no no no no no I talk to one person I'm not making this a principle I agree with you I can't agree with you more I agree with you 100% in terms of too soon and rushing to it Esther you know how much I love you the problem is I'm watching the physiology and you don't have maybe the same screen to see to be fair to you I'm seeing what's happened I saw a person sit down feeling empowered for moment but then I can also see she doesn't have the skills then to take that and translate that into a better relationship and to me that's terrible and I'm watching and what happens unfortunately Esther is when you communicate people then take that and they use it as a tool then often times to meet their lowest value structures to meet their own fears to meet their own justifications and unfortunately through camera I'm sure if you were here you would see what I saw and you would have nipped in the blood so I want you to know I support your intent 1 million per just going to forgive so you're being a good person is but freeing yourself from Rage and anger is critical for all of our spiritual absolutely thank you [Music]