Ask Me Anything with Madan Kumar and Kirubakaran

[Music] now we're going to have a very fun segment we're going to do and ask me anything with Madan Kumar and kirubakaran where you guys can ask all of your queries and they will be more than happy to help you I would like to welcome Madan Kumar and kirubakaran good so how many of you endered in profits today yeah I could see The Smiling Faces good sensex did not move much today check check that's the way of sensex luring you in so let's see after two weeks right yeah um my name is kakar and rajendran and I'm from Chennai and I've been trading since 2008 but I've been doing full-time trading since 2017 so I was into it for almost 10 years then I quit my job to focus completely on algo trading so I've been doing uh full-time algo trading since 2017 and U my major interest is specifically in know systems development back testing mechanical trading systems know those are my expertise and Beyond trading my interest is mostly man know watching movies and traveling that's all um my name is uh Madan I'm from Chennai born and brought up there uh I'm 44 years old uh I'm a full-time Trader trading for the last several years 17 18 years now uh been good uh things are fine so know this session is going to be kind of an amama session so know most people will have certain questions related to know trading systems or trading in general so know this is whatever questions that you have in your mind related to trading and investing yeah you can shoot up see see guys see the the reason for this session is see I have done so many sessions on trading psychology money management people who know me you know knows that I'm I'm a big time sucker for money management right so uh what I want to have in this session is complete interaction that's why it's called ask me anything I mean of course you cannot ask my waist size other than that you can go ahead and ask me anything uh if I'm able to you know answer it in a very integral way with a lot of honesty I will do it if I'm not able to answer it because of some kind of you know diplomacy I won't answer it but ask me anything guys ask ask anything to kba ask me anything related to trading related to non-trading too if I know the answer I'm going to let you know why I want to keep this session is usually what happens is uh any speaker that comes in you know they're going to have a presentation usually it's monotonous and the question answer sessions are usually 5 to 10 minutes right I'm sure a lot of people want to have want to ask questions but unfortunately we do not have time uh to the speakers this particular session is only about picking the speaker mind so uh I'm a big time fan of picking speak no people's mind because that is when you're going to get lot of good nuggets right right so I think Kagan has almost more than 10 11 12 years of experience I have around 15 years of experience so uh if you're new into the markets I'm sure there are a lot of questions for you if you're into the markets for 10 plus years I'm sure there are certain questions which you might have I remember in one of the session Santos passi was asking me a question so people who are experienced also will have a lot of questions so and we want to make sure that whoever has any questions I know the first couple of questions are going to be a little bit delayed because the starting problem for a lot of people here I know that but once we keep on going I think we should start rolling so uh I'm very good at picking people who are sleeping so please be aware of about that so if you're are sleeping now please be awake and go ahead ask ask me anything start let's go with the mics man s please hand over the mics to yeah please uh tell to whom the question is addressed to please introduce yourself where you are from your name what you do for living and then your question I'm I'm already looking at Mr jagadish and duraj smiling friends it is actually a great opportunity don't miss it because with the sessions and all you will only get 5 to 10 minutes of q&as one to two questions make use of the opportunity I can see many hands we go one by one from this side yeah please start from lakau what's your name uh pulkit pulit I have traveled all the way from lakau I a full-time Trader okay uh my question is for you kba uh what would you suggest for non- Tech background if he wants to for a totally into the algo uh section uh what would be the starter points how would he develop what team does he need to have with him or what back softwares or anything extra tools that he would use for uh making into algo Journeys all right so being a an from a non-coding background if someone wants to get into algo trading or if someone wants to get into systems trading so you are asking what are the things a person need to needs to have how do they build the team or how do they proceed about it right see with respect to um algo trading it is we are in a currently in a no code platforms so know 10 to 15 years before if you have to create an website now you have to write the necessary programming language to bring up a website and then after some time know there was multiple platforms out there which made it easier to develop a website without having the coding knowledge similarly now there are multiple no code platforms available out there which you know makes this old process much easier for you to do know get into this algor trading process so if you leave alone the execution part so focus more on the logic the core logic part so for the core logic part you need to study the market Behavior first so the current problem what I seen is see 15 years before when I started trading it was very difficult to test any single idea so if I wanted to test how the market will behave when it goes above 200 day moving average or how it know behaves when it closes below 200 day moving average you have to probably write it in Ami broker formula language and test it now there are multiple no code platforms available where you just specify the parameters and you back test it but the problem with this kind of know current uh no nature is it gives you the end result but the moment you goes to the live trading then you will stop abruptly in between when it doesn't sink with your own no Trading mindset so that is the biggest problem so in order to go with that first fix this first and then start focusing on know having a team of developers or focusing on the executions and everything later because if this is not fix it even though you have the robust execution platform end of the day you would not be able to stick to it so it is not about the best training strategy it is not about the least draw down it is all about the system which suits your mind no mindset so in order to go in that zone it might take a little longer but there is enough to tools out there currently which helps you to study the market Behavior like if you just access no trading view premium subscription that enables you to go through know 20,000 30,000 bars behind where you can do a bar replay and study it and the next thing is instead of directly getting into strangle straddle strategy just observe how a market might behave on expiry days this is a simple example say for an example between 9:30 to 3:30 on Thursdays study the market behavior of Bank Nifty so it is just five minutes chart if you plot it for 5 years probably it is going to take 2 hours or 3 hours to study the behavior then if you write know any kind of Python scripts or Excel scripts to study how it behaves from morning till evening from open to high how high it has moved up how low it has moved down then these will give you an idea okay this is how market usually moves on expired days then based on that you can either create a strangle or strle based on okay until know the overall Nifty moves in X percentage I could do strangle or else I could do stradle so likewise you can do it but best thing is focus on the market Behavior then come to Market data and then focus on all the execution part so okay I just uh need to uh add one another thing I'm already on the uh point that you are telling me there are some uh software uh websites like Trad Tron alot test I've already made some strategies over there but as you said there's a very big gap after deploying them in the live market with our Brokers right so that's why I'm planning to uh shift in with a team so the uh what are the main persons like a head engineer or anyone else for the tech team so in that in that case either you should Outsource the complete work to a developer who's really good at it because if you focus currently to focus on this development part no you might not be really good at like how the other developer could be so it's better to Outsource the compete work probably is proposing a business idea so it's is either find a person who can relate to it say find a complimentary skill set you are really good in designing a strategy find a coder who is really good in coding but not good in markets so there is always be you know a guy who's really good at trading might not be good at coding a guys who's good at coding might not be good at trading but when these two guys work together then it makes it much easier so you have to find a partner like that or you have to Outsource this work completely so it is just like hiring someone for a for fulltime or Outsourcing a single project yeah fulltime doesn't make any sense because no the work is not going to be there from morning till evening so it's better to Outsource thank you so much thank you so much yeah thank you so much P for coming all the way from Lan thank you yeah perfect hi uh this me here I am jendra so kir of course you know we know we keep hearing from you all the time on social media but Madan sir you've been if I can call you sir um though you are 44 and I'm only 45 but uh in terms of knowledge I'm a baby so um but I have a little bit of complaint that you know you've been kind of missing in action in social media you're not taking any programs as well so if you can just summarize your top three things that you've always emphasized for all of us to you know just reinstate ourselves we are all struggling very hard to not lose money and you are a master of making money so if you can just summarize top three things that we should always and always first do so that will be great for us I'm I'm a master of losing money too so we're on the same boat right so much jendra so can you guys hear me I don't know whether yeah okay uh top three things see first of all uh you know I I want to congratulate everyone here because it's 3:30 in the afternoon after the lunch probably nap time markets are over I guess it's closed right yeah 3:30 done so uh thank you so much for first of all listening so it's it's going to be tough for you guys to just you know uh sit over there and hear the ramblings of two you know stupid guys here right but unfortunately you are what you are doing right now I'm sorry but the coming back to the question uh the I think the top three things I would say for any Trader is capital the first thing is capital you know if you if you do not have enough Capital uh it's it's called Capital markets for a reason right so if you do not have enough Capital please do not come into the markets uh guys I'm going to be Cutthroat you know people who know me knows this I'm going to be Cutthroat I'm not going to sugar coat anything so don't get offended if I say something which you don't like but the direct answer is going to be like that right first thing is capital if you do not have enough Capital please don't come in so the next question obvious question is what is enough Capital that depends on your needs so let's not go there the second point I would always emphasize is you know come up with a plan if you do not have a plan how many business owners here entrepreneurs business owners I want to see at least couple of dozens of people because Hyderabad is known for entrepreneurship yeah so many guys so you you guys have a business plan without the business plan you get you get money from VCS you know investors anybody here who is into business got into business without any plan why trading should be different so I'm always like that so trading plan should be there should be in place wherein you know you should know what instruments you want to trade you should know what kind of money you want to put in you should know what kind of strategies you want to deploy you should know first of all whether you want to be a systematic Trader or a discretionary Trader so there are so many aspects to a trading plan which I do not have the luxury to get into right now but unfortunately many people who come into trading think it's a quick Rich scheme how many people got into trading thinking like that quick Rich scheme only two people guys Krish I don't know where Krish is I think we have amazing crowd here so they they they came in thinking that it's not quick risky right but unfortunately maybe not this crowd but usually 90% of the people come into the the markets thinking okay it's as easy as just getting in and getting out right but once you are into the markets for 2 three years you know it is not as ECS just getting in and getting out so trading plan is very important yeah I'll come there the third point I would say I'm not going to bore you with the psychology stuff but a third point I would probably say is your mindset has to be right I always say this if you're a discretionary Trader if you are moving houses if you are getting into your divorce uh if you are if you have a family member you know who died recently do not trade because the mindset has to be very sharp for a discretion how many people agree here the discretion Traders if your mindset is not sharp your trading results will you know follow with the mindset am I right guys anybody with me I'm not hearing you yes is the yes there you go so the same way for the systematic Trader you might say Ive automated everything my mindset is not really you know important would you want had anything here har your mindset is not really important if you're a systematic Trader anybody want a had here like harsh is a systematic Trader I believe yeah yeah obviously because human beings are emotional okay that's why we can't control our emotions otherwise we will become right so whether you are a systematic Trader or a discretionary Trader some kind of mindset has to be kicking so your mindset has to be sharp so how do you develop that mindset there is no other shortcut here you cannot you know pop up a blue pill and then have a great mindset can anybody have a you know get a bill like that here to get a mindset no nobody can do that so what what needs to be done is you need to go through the path of couple of years but to go through the path of couple of years you need to sustain for you to sustain you need to have sufficient capital for the capital to sustain you need to have a trading plan you see how everything is connected now you just cannot have one thing and you know you know prepare Biryani I always bring this biryani I mean Hyderabad what whatever example I can bring in Biryani right so you cannot not prepare Biryani with just one ingredient you need multiple ingredients you need proper ratios you need to know what to put when the same way in trading everything has to come together did I answer your question jendra first of all how many ladies here can you please stand up please I need one question from each of you please I didn't hear any lady asking a question including babita I need one question so is there any uh strategy or anything we can optimize the draws or how to reduce how to reduce the draw Downs see I know this answer should give to give you some more information on this this guy picked us up from the airport yesterday that's the only question he had how to optimize how to reduce and he's following up with the same question because from the airport we you know very intentionally avoided that question now he's asking in the stage so I cannot avoid right so if I know the answer I would probably not be sitting here right I do not know the answer the only way to avoid draw down there is actually a way you can avoid draw down you should not trade right is there any other way I do not know any other way so so draw Downs are part of trading it's it's like Vish was telling today right you know if you want to breathe out or sorry if you want to breathe in you have to breathe out right the same way there are going to be losses the draw Downs are going to come this is a funny way of answering the question let's get to the serious way of answering the question the serious way of answering the question would be something like this wherein you know you know your maximum loss and you know probably your maximum draw down I'm talking about the system Traders here you know the maximum draw down you know the C you know the winning rate you know your number of losers in a row you know your a ratio B ratio C ratio calma ratio blah blah ratio all ratio you know you are probably the ratio and proportion you know father of the world right you know everything about everything but unfortunately when the draw down hits how many people are here the victim of this when the draw down hits you suddenly question your system how many people here everyone I do not know anybody who has not question themselves after five losers in a row anybody here I want you to be on the stage trust me I will have more questions for you anybody here nobody the reason being we are all human beings as ASU was telling the reason is once we hit a series of losses in a row you are obviously going to question your self- belief you're going to question your system you're probably going to question the market movements somebody asked a question today illogical volatility I want to know what is illogical volatility what is logical volatility that illogical volatility is kicking in the only reason people are putting the illogical word before volatility he's frustrated because of the the recent losses that's why he's saying illogical volatility you get that so everybody's frustrated with the losses but if you know how to handle losses mentally this particular profession might be a little bit easier easier on you but if you do not know how to handle losses for example my wife does not have the appetite to go through losses so for her trading will not work she might learn it she might learn to handle the losses but naturally as an innate trait she does not know how to handle losses some people have the appetite some people do not have the appetite but if you do not have the appetite don't fret it can be learned but without learning that art you will not sustain in this profession for more than couple of years did I answer the question and and also I have also one more thing to add mad see with respect to draw down the mindset that we need to have is like trading is like getting into boxing ring see the moment you get into the boxing ring the most uh know the professional boxes their mindset is not to give the know the best knockout punch to the opponent their expectation is always when the opponent will give the knockout punch how do I handle it if you check the history of Mike Tyson or Mohammad Hali the major time that they spent is training on their neck rather than anything else in the body because when they give a know when the opponent give a knockout punch neck is the one that is going to get affected much so these two boxers who have been know the best boxers in the world they have spent so much of time handling that Knockouts so specifically when it comes to no trading it is similar to that like we can say whenever we take a trade the first question that we ask is how much we are going to make in that trade and very rarely we are going to ask how much we are going to lose in that trade and with respect to draw down like how much control that you have in a draw down matters over the long RM say now if I just pinch mad it is not going to pain him it just going to be there for a few seconds how do you know no it's going to pain you but it's not going to be there forever and if I take a blade and cut you and probably you know it'll be there for a few days if I take a knife and then cut you it's going to be there for weeks it's about how much know the hurt the overall know the draw on streaks or the losing streaks that happens over the period of time that is going to matter so now having the right mindset as he rightly pointed out is there is no way to avoid the draw downs but it is more about handling the draw Downs so the first the right question is how do I handle the draw Downs rather than how do I avoid on a lighter note have anybody watched Mike Tyson's neck uh exercise video on YouTube you will puke because his neck looks like this have anybody watched the mic exercise video pul is here pul Kar I have seen him doing that in Twitter actually you know he posted exercise yeah for next excise yeah it's crazy man I've seen that I've seen the thing like that you go on like you know as if you roll that thing it's amazing yeah anyways yeah so that that's a point so it is is not about giving The Knockout in trading it is all about handling that knockout so now once you get into the trading phase nobody is know they cannot avoid Rons at all yeah and the and one more thing is it is like just like any kind of illness you would have gone through any kind of illness right you know any major illness or light illness once you go through that illness phase every single cell in your body knows exactly how to know resist that when it happens again similarly in draw down once you go through that first couple of draw Downs or one or two draw Downs you will your mindset will eventually know how do you handle it how do you overcome it so the only way to handle draw down is to face the draw down yeah awarding draw down is like awarding in-laws how many people have DED that I mean you can avoid in-laws by not getting married but you know once you're married you know you got to face them right so irrespective of the gender here you know if you are a female you are to face your in-law if you're a male you to face your in-law so it's like that and also the best draw down detector are the wife they'll exactly know whether you are in draw down whether you made profits today whether you made initial phase 5 years we we'll know how to put poker face right we'll always have the face like this whether it's a profit or loss so wife will not know after some time initial days everybody will notice not wife spouse gender neutral spouse sorry yeah all right next question come on guys now it's warming up yeah yeah I think he said illogical volatility there you go I'm watching I I can hear you go ahead hello yeah yeah hi my question was a bit on your name your name where you from yeah my name is abijit um abijit yeah I'm from indor so idea was to do the South D so I thought attending this conference would be great so U mad my question was on trading psychology okay uh see earlier it used to be so easy uh there was one expiry one Thursday so be it Friday Monday Tuesday or wednessday you sell that only now morning every time in the morning I have to take a decision ke go for zero DT which gives a faster realization of profits and bigger profits or you know go for 2D or 3 higher risk and you get slower profits so uh this decision you know it kind of disturbs me every time today I I would have traded SX but because of this disaster of last two three weeks P I stopped it but today it was so sweet last to last luring you yeah so now what will happen is like maybe pul K or jagan S will post key 2% today in SX expiry and uh like I am in regret or to like how to deal with this get out of Twitter [Applause] yeah okay Jokes Aside yeah good question uh abijit uh see it's like this right so you're going for the the war let's say it's not a war I'm just giving an example hypothetically you're going for a war so before entering into the arena or before entering into the war zone if you're figuring out whether you want to take a swad or you want to take a gun or you want to take some rocket launcher or something then you're going to be messed up so that is where the plan has to be the reason why you are confused is you're always looking for something better and you are always looking at the past reflecting reflecting on the future so you are thinking that okay jagen has made this much money last sensex Raul has made this much money last midcap you know expiry so maybe I will also make the same so I don't want to trade the next day expiry so I want to trade only this day expiry because last week Mr and Mister and Mr made so much of money so that is where I think the social media kicks in right so I always tell this to my people you know when I used to take classes I stopped it long time ago now I always tell this to people if you are having this kind of confusion dilemma in your mind the only way to avoid this dilemma is obviously have to have a plan the second important thing is to get out of social media it's a big problem because you do not know what Jag appetite is you do not know what kba appetite is risk appetite I'm talking about that not the actual appetite okay that we will know in the lunch or dinner time so what I'm trying to tell you is so when you start comparing yourself with people which you think you are not doing but just by going to social media but trust me our mind subconscious mind is like a sponge it's going to absorb everything that goes into it right so you obviously will humans are obviously competitors we want to compete with other people right so you will compete with other people in terms of okay I didn't make this much last week I didn't make this much last month so I want to make this much this particular day what I have to do I would have to probably trade this instrument because this instrument has done this much in the past but what you missing out is kba or Jag or whoever it is you quoted PR I guess so what what you are missing is these guys have a long-term plan so they are doing this because they know that consistency will bring in the results but what you and I are missing is the consistency today we trade X tomorrow we trade y suddenly we wake up in the night 3:00 God will tell us to trade a we will trade a that's not going to work am I making sense guys it's just not for abijit abijit had a very good question because a lot of people this dilemma the problem with is the social media yeah actually after the results we'll be happy with whatever the profits we made but when you compare that with Jag or someone oh my God this guy made higher profits then the happiness goes I am telling you if you are happy when Jag is making .1% you making 3% you are dead trust me the reason is the today is jagan today is kba tomorrow is going to be somebody else there is no dir for you comparing with other people I mean I I making sense guys this is actually human in real life we keep on comparing ourselves with a lot of people don't do that you have a plan how many people are systematic Traders here oh wow how many how many people have meddled with your system in the past meddled and how many people have regretted meddling with your system there everybody the reason is I always tell this to people if you are so itchy about doing some discretionary trade when you are a systematic Trader have a separate account no problem but do not touch your so long back tested 10 years of system don't touch that please don't touch that it's like touching a electric wire we know what's going to happen next regret will follow you would have probably I I know this I have done this I've been a big time victim of this I'm been a big time guilty of this too what I have done abijit in the past is I have been very smart overd my system rather than coming out at 3 2 let's say I have overridden my own system come out at 2:00 let's say the profit is 100 points in Nifty right let's put points 100 points in Nifty by 325 had I come out my profit would have been 40 points I would be flying my IQ would be 162 world record see I know Market is going to reverse I was so happy that day next day I will do the same thing I'll be so happy again because I saved 60 points the following day the market bugger will move 150 points up like what happened yesterday if I had come out at 215 yesterday 25 to 330 was 150 points move yesterday so that regret will kill us inside out so please have a plan get out of social media you can come back to social media once your psychological resilience is high until then please do not get into social media if somebody is into the social media business I'm so sorry you can have customers outside the trading but inside the trading social media is not good am I making sense guys no okay ladies question my name is shha shha okay I came here from nagur so uh it's been a three plus year that I'm into markettime Trader okay so being a Trader there are multiple stages like uh fear of execution lot of things so I am into a that greed W Zone we need more money more money so I don't know where to stop yeah okay so where to stop that is my question take the question so the question is she is more greedy and she wants to do she want to know when to stop when to stop being greedy I think we should be scalable if you are in into the business see with respect to now trading obviously know there will always be a other guy who who is always going to make higher profits than you be it in business there is always be other guy who is going to make higher Revenue than you so as long as you keep having that great Readiness it might burn you out over the few years say suppose if you don't have this specific mindset probably you would be doing trading 10 years 15 years but when you have this kind of mindset even though you have your own proper rules and everything because of this external pressure which you have put in by yourself that is going to burn you out over the know few years of Journey so definitely you might even quit trading at one point of time because you came into trading to make money and you wanted to make even more higher money but that itself will become a big hurdle for you to follow the same process which you came in so to avoid greediness it is not in general in trading you can avoid greediness and in life you would be so happy you are having this greediness mind not only in trading even in your General Life set say you know like for an example you might compare that with your neighbor or you might compare that with your friends you always wanted to be know one level up higher than you were closed community so that is there outside of your trading mindset so that is what it is getting impacted in your own trading so once you clear that out in your outside of your trading Lifest set definitely that will not have an impact in your trading am I making any sense yeah yeah uh see another uh it's not a pointer to add it's just a funny thing right trading is the only profession I know there might be other professions trading is the only profession I know you will regret when you make profit you will regret when you make losses how many people know this why do you regret when you make make profits huh by looking others okay comparison okay why do you regret when you make losses huh waited for some more time okay more Mt I have a different take this is all okay I have a different take you you regret when you make profits because you'll be like maybe I should have put bigger size you regret when you make losses maybe I should have aoid Ed this trade my mind was telling me not to take this trade I don't know why I took this trade how many people have done this okay we have a lot of real Traders good all right so anyways yeah next question please hello and this question is to uh like you have been posting your uh regular I'm interrupting your name where you are from what you do for living okay this is uh manam from Chennai I'm working in val okay uh parttime Trader just uh yeah go ahead okay question is Toba like you have been posting your uh Auto strangle B like you'll be saying like based on the data it's choosing the call option or put put option so like what are the data you'll be analyzing like open interest or future interest like what are the data you be like mainly price so mainly price based on the price initially if you know it will start with a neutral movement and if the market is moving in any s Direction and tries to you know break a range and tries to move up then it will turn that into a directional to a non-directional to to directional so mostly it'll have these you know Market movements price actions whether it is breaking a specific range or not whether it is trying to trade in within a stipulated range So based on that it keeps adjusting the positions like what will be the like fundamental analyst and thing see the basic idea I'll tell you see with respect to Trend following so the core principle behind Trend following is once a particular uh stock hits a 52 we High there is a high probability that it is going to make a new 52 we High a stock which hits a alltime high there is a high probability that is going to hit a new alltime high so with respect to options the core principles are like for an example on expiry all otm options expire worthless this is core principle but what is the probability that whatever the otm options which you have taken will stay in otm what is the probability because still it can become at the money you know it can become in the money so if you focus on those kind of core principles and try to build a system then that is going to last longer then focusing on know rade systems thank you yeah next question um I'm Rosario from Chennai I'm a full-time Trader oh everybody sitting together yeah so my question is basically on the recent uh sensex route so we had option freezers and uh all those stuffs happening right okay given India has been blooming in options uh like we are number one in the world in terms of option turnover all the stuff uh what what are the the systematic risk we are uh we every day we all of us are doing short straddles and short strangles without even hitch I mean we are doing without hitge to reduce the margin I mean uh reduce the position sizing yeah to be conservative in first place but if the market crashes and our SL gems and we don't have what is the remedy and if the bro we couldn't connect to the broker or NSS couldn't help help us out how are we going to avoid this Black Swan intraday event was this not a close meeting inside SE recently how to avoid this go ahead I didn't know see with respect to these risk factors which you have mentioned of course you know there are multiple risk lay factors there so when if you're an algo Trader or if you're an automated Trader the risk starts from the API structure itself what if in case the API disconnects what if in case the broker disconnects okay so if the broker disconnects you have multiple Brokers so what if in case the exchange goes down I think n has gone down in 2021 or some no date where the whole date was down right and coming to sensex has happened three times yeah and coming to sensex which is gaining volumes recently on Fridays in fact on Fridays more than Bank Nifty Nifty and all NS indices BAC indices NX is having the highest volume highest turnover now but with respect to exchange wise see nsec has two Disaster Recovery sites one in chenai and one in some other place and one in their actual operations but when you have these comparison between NSE and BC NC is way way better than BC but of course if BC Exchange itself is goes down what would happen recently there was some instance where the adapter was not getting connected to the broker the orders was not going through and when you handle these kind of issues you have to conclude two things first thing is what is the worst case scenario if Market tanks th000 points or if you're not able to square off your positions say the intraday positions becoming an overnight what would what would be the worst case scenario what is the maximum loss that you could face so that is where know as mad mentioned what would be the number of lots that you need to bring in so just because I've kept 15 points stop loss I cannot just trade no higher number of quantity that 15 points can easily jump my position if it is not closed and if it is getting no opened up tomorrow because of huge gap up that is going to get affected so all these things will definitely be there you can't avoid it and the only way to avoid all these things is as M said you have to stop trading only other way the proper thing is to reduce the potion size so that even if there is any worst case scenario because even in intrade if you see in 2000 or during this 20 hour attack the market opened and it was closed in between and it opened after 15 days so during the intraday time itself they've shut down the markets and they stopped it and they opened it after 15 days so imagine if your intraday position is open and suddenly the market closed and in case if it opens after 15 days with a huge gap that kind of with a terrorist attack so the market would be extremely bearish so where your positions would be so just because your back test only has five back toback losses or if your back test has X percentage of Throne that is not going to happen assume your worst case scenario and figure out what would be the ideal portion that you can trade that is the only way to handle it you can't avoid all these things and being in no Indian markets with huge turnovers and all this that might happen has nicely instilled fear no can can you give me any tumble the thing is that's what these are Black Swan events considering this I should be trading one one lot for 10 lakhs so that's not going to help also in terms of return also right so so have a say uh say for an example if Market goes up or goes down in one set direction to a huge extent if you're an option seller definitely the overall results is going to be skewed because of these events so if you have an option buying system also in place so if you're long as well if you're going no Short net position you will be long if Market moves in such kind of no drastic moves so when you combine these kind of option buying as well as option selling system to a know to Greater extent you can control the damage last three questions thank timing time is up I didn't realize that it's yeah and how many of you here know wants to get into full-time trading currently working and get into full-time trading so you guys must be having more questions because when you want to jump from your profession to full-time trading that is when know you will have this dialma should I go or not and people who know before I get into full-time trading I was making good returns but the moment you came into full-time trading the kind of mind mindset that you have as a part-time Trader versus fulltime Trader is totally totally different so you do not have any questions related to fulltime Trad last three questions because we are out of time uh myself I'm a Trader and algo okay developer and investor so my question is investing and trading both are like a business we consider right so so these days like say we uh imposing the disrupt um rules like uh for all goals everybody need to write a certification and like U extending hours right so how this kind of situation we had right as a retailer Traders or investors so is there any plan to this kind of disruptive systems in come is a completely infrastructure changing right they are increasing ours how can we plan for our business this kind of thing right otherwise everybody is confusing about these kind of stuffs yeah it's is a regulator right right a regulator can do anything they want so you know they want to let's say increase the hours I think that talks has been going on um Mr panage from NC is here so uh the talks has been going on but unfortunately it didn't materialize that the same way Regulators are Regulators they're going to do whatever they want to do so I always tell this to people you know Traders are the most adaptable human beings in the world we keep on adapting right so there is is there any other choice other than adapting we have to adapt so so you'll have to figure out a ways of being in the market after 330 if it gets extended you'll have to see for example leverage went off right one and a half years ago leverage completely went off the people who are into option selling three years two years before this particular day let's say from 2021 or before that they made you know a lot of money due to leverage Now The Leverage route is gone so but still people adapted still so many new people are coming into the market so we will adapt other than that I think we will have to cross the bridge when it comes and moreover this is not totally new you know see if you read this book a bull bear and other Beast where they have specifically explained what has happened in Indian markets for the last 25 years from 1992 till date where initially the actual working hours with respect to Indian exchange is only two and half hours only two and half hours correct and eventually the increase is to know couple of more hours then I think 10:00 the market started yeah from 9:55 so 9:55 it started and then eventually you know what now the main focus on to extend the you know the market timing is to increase their overall volumes in general see beyond 330 the maximum volumes is going to go abroad I thought increasing hours was to Save retail increasing saving retail see nobody is ready to sit see by sitting it's from 9:00 to 3:00 itself no we are done exactly we are burning out already and extending and moreover you don't need to sit in front of a system from 9:00 to 11:55 to make money right it's up to the your own trading systems how you want to control it but no having said that these regulations and everything will keep coming in yes and people will always find a way to adopt to it absolutely yeah the last two questions last sir last question okay last question sorry last question sir my name is Bones I'm from Andra Pradesh I'll get your question later sir what should we consider if we want to scale up our Capital with respect to psychology and emotions statistics also scaling the capital with respect to psychology and statistics okay so yeah I can cover this up M but I have to explain this with a very small Story Probably it's going to take five more minutes I'll explain this in scaling up of this knife and stab you no no no I'll finish it I'll finish it two minutes yeah maximum 2 minutes see I also had the same issue so what happens is whenever you trade with five Lots or 10 lots you'll really make very good profits and know over a period of few weeks or a few months you will realize okay I'm really making good profits why don't I increase my Capital from 10 lakhs to 50 lakhs so immediately you will increase your Capital to 50 lakhs and then again you are not used to the fluctuations of the markets so what happens is see there is a beautiful story which I've read multiple years before following that incident I was able to adap to it and I was able to scale up to the capital from where I am now see there is a guy called Milow I've shared the story multiple times many people would know it so there is a guy called Milow so this guy is know based out of no ancient gree where there used to be a wrestling match or weightlifting match that used to happen every single time and this guy Milow is the world champion in that where he has one back-to-back champion in the weightlifting competition so one day they announced a competition stating that so we are going to have a match between Milow and another competitor where know they are going to announce within next few years they are going to have a match together on the stage and now everybody is curious to see how these two guys are going to get trained in order to win that match so one guy is anyways a superstar know Championship but the other guy the competitor is completely new so everybody is curious how this competitor is going to win this match so now once this news is announced this competitor what he do is he directly went to the market and he bought a very big bull so that you could lift that and train hard so now people are even more Curious see even a competitor itself if he's going and buying a big bull to handle it definitely Milo must be having a super good plan to take over so now what Milo does was he just went to the same markets and he bought a very small cough now people wondered why a world champion who won backto back no white listing Champion has just bought a small C whereas the competitor bought a very big bull so now over the years what happened was the competitor is trying to lift that bull every single day but he couldn't lift it because it out WIS his own weight whereas Milow who has bought a small cough he just put it on his shoulder and wherever he goes he lift this scalf and he'll go whether it is to the markets or where to the no training field wherever he goes he'll lift it so over the years he is used to the weight of the calve since he's carrying it on his shoulder every single day so over a period of years once at the time of the wrestling I mean the weightlifting match happens this calf has grown into a big bull so at the time of this know this exact match he was able to lift that bull effort LLY but the first guy who bought the big bull on day one he couldn't lift at all so this is exactly what we do with po sizing so as long as you scale your capital from 3 to 10 10 to 15 15 to 20 you are getting used to the fluctuations of MTM so you would be able to handle it you will not stop it abruptly but if you are like the competitor who is to scale up the capital immediately and trying to do it definitely not possible so this is the right way to scale up to just Summit up all I want to Big Time congratulate Kish ASA and I think na I guess she's the one speaking so give give them a big round of applause guys it's not a joke to me know maintaining this kind of convention organizing it it's yeah even Saddam was a key player here so thank you so much guys thanks for the opportunity and if you have so any more questions you can ask [Music] later

[Music] now we&#39;re going to have a very fun segment we&#39;re going to do and ask me anything with Madan Kumar and kirubakaran where you guys can ask all of your queries and they will be more than happy to help you I would like to welcome Madan Kumar and kirubakaran good so how many of you endered in profits today yeah I could see The Smiling Faces good sensex did not move much today check check that&#39;s the way of sensex luring you in so let&#39;s see after two weeks right yeah um my name is kakar and rajendran and I&#39;m from Chennai and I&#39;ve been trading since 2008 but I&#39;ve been doing full-time trading since 2017 so I was into it for almost 10 years then I quit my job to focus completely on algo trading so I&#39;ve been doing uh full-time algo trading since 2017 and U my major interest is specifically in know systems development back testing mechanical trading systems know those are my expertise and Beyond trading my interest is mostly man know watching movies and traveling that&#39;s all um my name is uh Madan I&#39;m from Chennai born and brought up there uh I&#39;m 44 years old uh I&#39;m a full-time Trader trading for the last several years 17 18 years now uh been good uh things are fine so know this session is going to be kind of an amama session so know most people will have certain questions related to know trading systems or trading in general so know this is whatever questions that you have in your mind related to trading and investing yeah you can shoot up see see guys see the the reason for this session is see I have done so many sessions on trading psychology money management people who know me you know knows that I&#39;m I&#39;m a big time sucker for money management right so uh what I want to have in this session is complete interaction that&#39;s why it&#39;s called ask me anything I mean of course you cannot ask my waist size other than that you can go ahead and ask me anything uh if I&#39;m able to you know answer it in a very integral way with a lot of honesty I will do it if I&#39;m not able to answer it because of some kind of you know diplomacy I won&#39;t answer it but ask me anything guys ask ask anything to kba ask me anything related to trading related to non-trading too if I know the answer I&#39;m going to let you know why I want to keep this session is usually what happens is uh any speaker that comes in you know they&#39;re going to have a presentation usually it&#39;s monotonous and the question answer sessions are usually 5 to 10 minutes right I&#39;m sure a lot of people want to have want to ask questions but unfortunately we do not have time uh to the speakers this particular session is only about picking the speaker mind so uh I&#39;m a big time fan of picking speak no people&#39;s mind because that is when you&#39;re going to get lot of good nuggets right right so I think Kagan has almost more than 10 11 12 years of experience I have around 15 years of experience so uh if you&#39;re new into the markets I&#39;m sure there are a lot of questions for you if you&#39;re into the markets for 10 plus years I&#39;m sure there are certain questions which you might have I remember in one of the session Santos passi was asking me a question so people who are experienced also will have a lot of questions so and we want to make sure that whoever has any questions I know the first couple of questions are going to be a little bit delayed because the starting problem for a lot of people here I know that but once we keep on going I think we should start rolling so uh I&#39;m very good at picking people who are sleeping so please be aware of about that so if you&#39;re are sleeping now please be awake and go ahead ask ask me anything start let&#39;s go with the mics man s please hand over the mics to yeah please uh tell to whom the question is addressed to please introduce yourself where you are from your name what you do for living and then your question I&#39;m I&#39;m already looking at Mr jagadish and duraj smiling friends it is actually a great opportunity don&#39;t miss it because with the sessions and all you will only get 5 to 10 minutes of q&amp;as one to two questions make use of the opportunity I can see many hands we go one by one from this side yeah please start from lakau what&#39;s your name uh pulkit pulit I have traveled all the way from lakau I a full-time Trader okay uh my question is for you kba uh what would you suggest for non- Tech background if he wants to for a totally into the algo uh section uh what would be the starter points how would he develop what team does he need to have with him or what back softwares or anything extra tools that he would use for uh making into algo Journeys all right so being a an from a non-coding background if someone wants to get into algo trading or if someone wants to get into systems trading so you are asking what are the things a person need to needs to have how do they build the team or how do they proceed about it right see with respect to um algo trading it is we are in a currently in a no code platforms so know 10 to 15 years before if you have to create an website now you have to write the necessary programming language to bring up a website and then after some time know there was multiple platforms out there which made it easier to develop a website without having the coding knowledge similarly now there are multiple no code platforms available out there which you know makes this old process much easier for you to do know get into this algor trading process so if you leave alone the execution part so focus more on the logic the core logic part so for the core logic part you need to study the market Behavior first so the current problem what I seen is see 15 years before when I started trading it was very difficult to test any single idea so if I wanted to test how the market will behave when it goes above 200 day moving average or how it know behaves when it closes below 200 day moving average you have to probably write it in Ami broker formula language and test it now there are multiple no code platforms available where you just specify the parameters and you back test it but the problem with this kind of know current uh no nature is it gives you the end result but the moment you goes to the live trading then you will stop abruptly in between when it doesn&#39;t sink with your own no Trading mindset so that is the biggest problem so in order to go with that first fix this first and then start focusing on know having a team of developers or focusing on the executions and everything later because if this is not fix it even though you have the robust execution platform end of the day you would not be able to stick to it so it is not about the best training strategy it is not about the least draw down it is all about the system which suits your mind no mindset so in order to go in that zone it might take a little longer but there is enough to tools out there currently which helps you to study the market Behavior like if you just access no trading view premium subscription that enables you to go through know 20,000 30,000 bars behind where you can do a bar replay and study it and the next thing is instead of directly getting into strangle straddle strategy just observe how a market might behave on expiry days this is a simple example say for an example between 9:30 to 3:30 on Thursdays study the market behavior of Bank Nifty so it is just five minutes chart if you plot it for 5 years probably it is going to take 2 hours or 3 hours to study the behavior then if you write know any kind of Python scripts or Excel scripts to study how it behaves from morning till evening from open to high how high it has moved up how low it has moved down then these will give you an idea okay this is how market usually moves on expired days then based on that you can either create a strangle or strle based on okay until know the overall Nifty moves in X percentage I could do strangle or else I could do stradle so likewise you can do it but best thing is focus on the market Behavior then come to Market data and then focus on all the execution part so okay I just uh need to uh add one another thing I&#39;m already on the uh point that you are telling me there are some uh software uh websites like Trad Tron alot test I&#39;ve already made some strategies over there but as you said there&#39;s a very big gap after deploying them in the live market with our Brokers right so that&#39;s why I&#39;m planning to uh shift in with a team so the uh what are the main persons like a head engineer or anyone else for the tech team so in that in that case either you should Outsource the complete work to a developer who&#39;s really good at it because if you focus currently to focus on this development part no you might not be really good at like how the other developer could be so it&#39;s better to Outsource the compete work probably is proposing a business idea so it&#39;s is either find a person who can relate to it say find a complimentary skill set you are really good in designing a strategy find a coder who is really good in coding but not good in markets so there is always be you know a guy who&#39;s really good at trading might not be good at coding a guys who&#39;s good at coding might not be good at trading but when these two guys work together then it makes it much easier so you have to find a partner like that or you have to Outsource this work completely so it is just like hiring someone for a for fulltime or Outsourcing a single project yeah fulltime doesn&#39;t make any sense because no the work is not going to be there from morning till evening so it&#39;s better to Outsource thank you so much thank you so much yeah thank you so much P for coming all the way from Lan thank you yeah perfect hi uh this me here I am jendra so kir of course you know we know we keep hearing from you all the time on social media but Madan sir you&#39;ve been if I can call you sir um though you are 44 and I&#39;m only 45 but uh in terms of knowledge I&#39;m a baby so um but I have a little bit of complaint that you know you&#39;ve been kind of missing in action in social media you&#39;re not taking any programs as well so if you can just summarize your top three things that you&#39;ve always emphasized for all of us to you know just reinstate ourselves we are all struggling very hard to not lose money and you are a master of making money so if you can just summarize top three things that we should always and always first do so that will be great for us I&#39;m I&#39;m a master of losing money too so we&#39;re on the same boat right so much jendra so can you guys hear me I don&#39;t know whether yeah okay uh top three things see first of all uh you know I I want to congratulate everyone here because it&#39;s 3:30 in the afternoon after the lunch probably nap time markets are over I guess it&#39;s closed right yeah 3:30 done so uh thank you so much for first of all listening so it&#39;s it&#39;s going to be tough for you guys to just you know uh sit over there and hear the ramblings of two you know stupid guys here right but unfortunately you are what you are doing right now I&#39;m sorry but the coming back to the question uh the I think the top three things I would say for any Trader is capital the first thing is capital you know if you if you do not have enough Capital uh it&#39;s it&#39;s called Capital markets for a reason right so if you do not have enough Capital please do not come into the markets uh guys I&#39;m going to be Cutthroat you know people who know me knows this I&#39;m going to be Cutthroat I&#39;m not going to sugar coat anything so don&#39;t get offended if I say something which you don&#39;t like but the direct answer is going to be like that right first thing is capital if you do not have enough Capital please don&#39;t come in so the next question obvious question is what is enough Capital that depends on your needs so let&#39;s not go there the second point I would always emphasize is you know come up with a plan if you do not have a plan how many business owners here entrepreneurs business owners I want to see at least couple of dozens of people because Hyderabad is known for entrepreneurship yeah so many guys so you you guys have a business plan without the business plan you get you get money from VCS you know investors anybody here who is into business got into business without any plan why trading should be different so I&#39;m always like that so trading plan should be there should be in place wherein you know you should know what instruments you want to trade you should know what kind of money you want to put in you should know what kind of strategies you want to deploy you should know first of all whether you want to be a systematic Trader or a discretionary Trader so there are so many aspects to a trading plan which I do not have the luxury to get into right now but unfortunately many people who come into trading think it&#39;s a quick Rich scheme how many people got into trading thinking like that quick Rich scheme only two people guys Krish I don&#39;t know where Krish is I think we have amazing crowd here so they they they came in thinking that it&#39;s not quick risky right but unfortunately maybe not this crowd but usually 90% of the people come into the the markets thinking okay it&#39;s as easy as just getting in and getting out right but once you are into the markets for 2 three years you know it is not as ECS just getting in and getting out so trading plan is very important yeah I&#39;ll come there the third point I would say I&#39;m not going to bore you with the psychology stuff but a third point I would probably say is your mindset has to be right I always say this if you&#39;re a discretionary Trader if you are moving houses if you are getting into your divorce uh if you are if you have a family member you know who died recently do not trade because the mindset has to be very sharp for a discretion how many people agree here the discretion Traders if your mindset is not sharp your trading results will you know follow with the mindset am I right guys anybody with me I&#39;m not hearing you yes is the yes there you go so the same way for the systematic Trader you might say Ive automated everything my mindset is not really you know important would you want had anything here har your mindset is not really important if you&#39;re a systematic Trader anybody want a had here like harsh is a systematic Trader I believe yeah yeah obviously because human beings are emotional okay that&#39;s why we can&#39;t control our emotions otherwise we will become right so whether you are a systematic Trader or a discretionary Trader some kind of mindset has to be kicking so your mindset has to be sharp so how do you develop that mindset there is no other shortcut here you cannot you know pop up a blue pill and then have a great mindset can anybody have a you know get a bill like that here to get a mindset no nobody can do that so what what needs to be done is you need to go through the path of couple of years but to go through the path of couple of years you need to sustain for you to sustain you need to have sufficient capital for the capital to sustain you need to have a trading plan you see how everything is connected now you just cannot have one thing and you know you know prepare Biryani I always bring this biryani I mean Hyderabad what whatever example I can bring in Biryani right so you cannot not prepare Biryani with just one ingredient you need multiple ingredients you need proper ratios you need to know what to put when the same way in trading everything has to come together did I answer your question jendra first of all how many ladies here can you please stand up please I need one question from each of you please I didn&#39;t hear any lady asking a question including babita I need one question so is there any uh strategy or anything we can optimize the draws or how to reduce how to reduce the draw Downs see I know this answer should give to give you some more information on this this guy picked us up from the airport yesterday that&#39;s the only question he had how to optimize how to reduce and he&#39;s following up with the same question because from the airport we you know very intentionally avoided that question now he&#39;s asking in the stage so I cannot avoid right so if I know the answer I would probably not be sitting here right I do not know the answer the only way to avoid draw down there is actually a way you can avoid draw down you should not trade right is there any other way I do not know any other way so so draw Downs are part of trading it&#39;s it&#39;s like Vish was telling today right you know if you want to breathe out or sorry if you want to breathe in you have to breathe out right the same way there are going to be losses the draw Downs are going to come this is a funny way of answering the question let&#39;s get to the serious way of answering the question the serious way of answering the question would be something like this wherein you know you know your maximum loss and you know probably your maximum draw down I&#39;m talking about the system Traders here you know the maximum draw down you know the C you know the winning rate you know your number of losers in a row you know your a ratio B ratio C ratio calma ratio blah blah ratio all ratio you know you are probably the ratio and proportion you know father of the world right you know everything about everything but unfortunately when the draw down hits how many people are here the victim of this when the draw down hits you suddenly question your system how many people here everyone I do not know anybody who has not question themselves after five losers in a row anybody here I want you to be on the stage trust me I will have more questions for you anybody here nobody the reason being we are all human beings as ASU was telling the reason is once we hit a series of losses in a row you are obviously going to question your self- belief you&#39;re going to question your system you&#39;re probably going to question the market movements somebody asked a question today illogical volatility I want to know what is illogical volatility what is logical volatility that illogical volatility is kicking in the only reason people are putting the illogical word before volatility he&#39;s frustrated because of the the recent losses that&#39;s why he&#39;s saying illogical volatility you get that so everybody&#39;s frustrated with the losses but if you know how to handle losses mentally this particular profession might be a little bit easier easier on you but if you do not know how to handle losses for example my wife does not have the appetite to go through losses so for her trading will not work she might learn it she might learn to handle the losses but naturally as an innate trait she does not know how to handle losses some people have the appetite some people do not have the appetite but if you do not have the appetite don&#39;t fret it can be learned but without learning that art you will not sustain in this profession for more than couple of years did I answer the question and and also I have also one more thing to add mad see with respect to draw down the mindset that we need to have is like trading is like getting into boxing ring see the moment you get into the boxing ring the most uh know the professional boxes their mindset is not to give the know the best knockout punch to the opponent their expectation is always when the opponent will give the knockout punch how do I handle it if you check the history of Mike Tyson or Mohammad Hali the major time that they spent is training on their neck rather than anything else in the body because when they give a know when the opponent give a knockout punch neck is the one that is going to get affected much so these two boxers who have been know the best boxers in the world they have spent so much of time handling that Knockouts so specifically when it comes to no trading it is similar to that like we can say whenever we take a trade the first question that we ask is how much we are going to make in that trade and very rarely we are going to ask how much we are going to lose in that trade and with respect to draw down like how much control that you have in a draw down matters over the long RM say now if I just pinch mad it is not going to pain him it just going to be there for a few seconds how do you know no it&#39;s going to pain you but it&#39;s not going to be there forever and if I take a blade and cut you and probably you know it&#39;ll be there for a few days if I take a knife and then cut you it&#39;s going to be there for weeks it&#39;s about how much know the hurt the overall know the draw on streaks or the losing streaks that happens over the period of time that is going to matter so now having the right mindset as he rightly pointed out is there is no way to avoid the draw downs but it is more about handling the draw Downs so the first the right question is how do I handle the draw Downs rather than how do I avoid on a lighter note have anybody watched Mike Tyson&#39;s neck uh exercise video on YouTube you will puke because his neck looks like this have anybody watched the mic exercise video pul is here pul Kar I have seen him doing that in Twitter actually you know he posted exercise yeah for next excise yeah it&#39;s crazy man I&#39;ve seen that I&#39;ve seen the thing like that you go on like you know as if you roll that thing it&#39;s amazing yeah anyways yeah so that that&#39;s a point so it is is not about giving The Knockout in trading it is all about handling that knockout so now once you get into the trading phase nobody is know they cannot avoid Rons at all yeah and the and one more thing is it is like just like any kind of illness you would have gone through any kind of illness right you know any major illness or light illness once you go through that illness phase every single cell in your body knows exactly how to know resist that when it happens again similarly in draw down once you go through that first couple of draw Downs or one or two draw Downs you will your mindset will eventually know how do you handle it how do you overcome it so the only way to handle draw down is to face the draw down yeah awarding draw down is like awarding in-laws how many people have DED that I mean you can avoid in-laws by not getting married but you know once you&#39;re married you know you got to face them right so irrespective of the gender here you know if you are a female you are to face your in-law if you&#39;re a male you to face your in-law so it&#39;s like that and also the best draw down detector are the wife they&#39;ll exactly know whether you are in draw down whether you made profits today whether you made initial phase 5 years we we&#39;ll know how to put poker face right we&#39;ll always have the face like this whether it&#39;s a profit or loss so wife will not know after some time initial days everybody will notice not wife spouse gender neutral spouse sorry yeah all right next question come on guys now it&#39;s warming up yeah yeah I think he said illogical volatility there you go I&#39;m watching I I can hear you go ahead hello yeah yeah hi my question was a bit on your name your name where you from yeah my name is abijit um abijit yeah I&#39;m from indor so idea was to do the South D so I thought attending this conference would be great so U mad my question was on trading psychology okay uh see earlier it used to be so easy uh there was one expiry one Thursday so be it Friday Monday Tuesday or wednessday you sell that only now morning every time in the morning I have to take a decision ke go for zero DT which gives a faster realization of profits and bigger profits or you know go for 2D or 3 higher risk and you get slower profits so uh this decision you know it kind of disturbs me every time today I I would have traded SX but because of this disaster of last two three weeks P I stopped it but today it was so sweet last to last luring you yeah so now what will happen is like maybe pul K or jagan S will post key 2% today in SX expiry and uh like I am in regret or to like how to deal with this get out of Twitter [Applause] yeah okay Jokes Aside yeah good question uh abijit uh see it&#39;s like this right so you&#39;re going for the the war let&#39;s say it&#39;s not a war I&#39;m just giving an example hypothetically you&#39;re going for a war so before entering into the arena or before entering into the war zone if you&#39;re figuring out whether you want to take a swad or you want to take a gun or you want to take some rocket launcher or something then you&#39;re going to be messed up so that is where the plan has to be the reason why you are confused is you&#39;re always looking for something better and you are always looking at the past reflecting reflecting on the future so you are thinking that okay jagen has made this much money last sensex Raul has made this much money last midcap you know expiry so maybe I will also make the same so I don&#39;t want to trade the next day expiry so I want to trade only this day expiry because last week Mr and Mister and Mr made so much of money so that is where I think the social media kicks in right so I always tell this to my people you know when I used to take classes I stopped it long time ago now I always tell this to people if you are having this kind of confusion dilemma in your mind the only way to avoid this dilemma is obviously have to have a plan the second important thing is to get out of social media it&#39;s a big problem because you do not know what Jag appetite is you do not know what kba appetite is risk appetite I&#39;m talking about that not the actual appetite okay that we will know in the lunch or dinner time so what I&#39;m trying to tell you is so when you start comparing yourself with people which you think you are not doing but just by going to social media but trust me our mind subconscious mind is like a sponge it&#39;s going to absorb everything that goes into it right so you obviously will humans are obviously competitors we want to compete with other people right so you will compete with other people in terms of okay I didn&#39;t make this much last week I didn&#39;t make this much last month so I want to make this much this particular day what I have to do I would have to probably trade this instrument because this instrument has done this much in the past but what you missing out is kba or Jag or whoever it is you quoted PR I guess so what what you are missing is these guys have a long-term plan so they are doing this because they know that consistency will bring in the results but what you and I are missing is the consistency today we trade X tomorrow we trade y suddenly we wake up in the night 3:00 God will tell us to trade a we will trade a that&#39;s not going to work am I making sense guys it&#39;s just not for abijit abijit had a very good question because a lot of people this dilemma the problem with is the social media yeah actually after the results we&#39;ll be happy with whatever the profits we made but when you compare that with Jag or someone oh my God this guy made higher profits then the happiness goes I am telling you if you are happy when Jag is making .1% you making 3% you are dead trust me the reason is the today is jagan today is kba tomorrow is going to be somebody else there is no dir for you comparing with other people I mean I I making sense guys this is actually human in real life we keep on comparing ourselves with a lot of people don&#39;t do that you have a plan how many people are systematic Traders here oh wow how many how many people have meddled with your system in the past meddled and how many people have regretted meddling with your system there everybody the reason is I always tell this to people if you are so itchy about doing some discretionary trade when you are a systematic Trader have a separate account no problem but do not touch your so long back tested 10 years of system don&#39;t touch that please don&#39;t touch that it&#39;s like touching a electric wire we know what&#39;s going to happen next regret will follow you would have probably I I know this I have done this I&#39;ve been a big time victim of this I&#39;m been a big time guilty of this too what I have done abijit in the past is I have been very smart overd my system rather than coming out at 3 2 let&#39;s say I have overridden my own system come out at 2:00 let&#39;s say the profit is 100 points in Nifty right let&#39;s put points 100 points in Nifty by 325 had I come out my profit would have been 40 points I would be flying my IQ would be 162 world record see I know Market is going to reverse I was so happy that day next day I will do the same thing I&#39;ll be so happy again because I saved 60 points the following day the market bugger will move 150 points up like what happened yesterday if I had come out at 215 yesterday 25 to 330 was 150 points move yesterday so that regret will kill us inside out so please have a plan get out of social media you can come back to social media once your psychological resilience is high until then please do not get into social media if somebody is into the social media business I&#39;m so sorry you can have customers outside the trading but inside the trading social media is not good am I making sense guys no okay ladies question my name is shha shha okay I came here from nagur so uh it&#39;s been a three plus year that I&#39;m into markettime Trader okay so being a Trader there are multiple stages like uh fear of execution lot of things so I am into a that greed W Zone we need more money more money so I don&#39;t know where to stop yeah okay so where to stop that is my question take the question so the question is she is more greedy and she wants to do she want to know when to stop when to stop being greedy I think we should be scalable if you are in into the business see with respect to now trading obviously know there will always be a other guy who who is always going to make higher profits than you be it in business there is always be other guy who is going to make higher Revenue than you so as long as you keep having that great Readiness it might burn you out over the few years say suppose if you don&#39;t have this specific mindset probably you would be doing trading 10 years 15 years but when you have this kind of mindset even though you have your own proper rules and everything because of this external pressure which you have put in by yourself that is going to burn you out over the know few years of Journey so definitely you might even quit trading at one point of time because you came into trading to make money and you wanted to make even more higher money but that itself will become a big hurdle for you to follow the same process which you came in so to avoid greediness it is not in general in trading you can avoid greediness and in life you would be so happy you are having this greediness mind not only in trading even in your General Life set say you know like for an example you might compare that with your neighbor or you might compare that with your friends you always wanted to be know one level up higher than you were closed community so that is there outside of your trading mindset so that is what it is getting impacted in your own trading so once you clear that out in your outside of your trading Lifest set definitely that will not have an impact in your trading am I making any sense yeah yeah uh see another uh it&#39;s not a pointer to add it&#39;s just a funny thing right trading is the only profession I know there might be other professions trading is the only profession I know you will regret when you make profit you will regret when you make losses how many people know this why do you regret when you make make profits huh by looking others okay comparison okay why do you regret when you make losses huh waited for some more time okay more Mt I have a different take this is all okay I have a different take you you regret when you make profits because you&#39;ll be like maybe I should have put bigger size you regret when you make losses maybe I should have aoid Ed this trade my mind was telling me not to take this trade I don&#39;t know why I took this trade how many people have done this okay we have a lot of real Traders good all right so anyways yeah next question please hello and this question is to uh like you have been posting your uh regular I&#39;m interrupting your name where you are from what you do for living okay this is uh manam from Chennai I&#39;m working in val okay uh parttime Trader just uh yeah go ahead okay question is Toba like you have been posting your uh Auto strangle B like you&#39;ll be saying like based on the data it&#39;s choosing the call option or put put option so like what are the data you&#39;ll be analyzing like open interest or future interest like what are the data you be like mainly price so mainly price based on the price initially if you know it will start with a neutral movement and if the market is moving in any s Direction and tries to you know break a range and tries to move up then it will turn that into a directional to a non-directional to to directional so mostly it&#39;ll have these you know Market movements price actions whether it is breaking a specific range or not whether it is trying to trade in within a stipulated range So based on that it keeps adjusting the positions like what will be the like fundamental analyst and thing see the basic idea I&#39;ll tell you see with respect to Trend following so the core principle behind Trend following is once a particular uh stock hits a 52 we High there is a high probability that it is going to make a new 52 we High a stock which hits a alltime high there is a high probability that is going to hit a new alltime high so with respect to options the core principles are like for an example on expiry all otm options expire worthless this is core principle but what is the probability that whatever the otm options which you have taken will stay in otm what is the probability because still it can become at the money you know it can become in the money so if you focus on those kind of core principles and try to build a system then that is going to last longer then focusing on know rade systems thank you yeah next question um I&#39;m Rosario from Chennai I&#39;m a full-time Trader oh everybody sitting together yeah so my question is basically on the recent uh sensex route so we had option freezers and uh all those stuffs happening right okay given India has been blooming in options uh like we are number one in the world in terms of option turnover all the stuff uh what what are the the systematic risk we are uh we every day we all of us are doing short straddles and short strangles without even hitch I mean we are doing without hitge to reduce the margin I mean uh reduce the position sizing yeah to be conservative in first place but if the market crashes and our SL gems and we don&#39;t have what is the remedy and if the bro we couldn&#39;t connect to the broker or NSS couldn&#39;t help help us out how are we going to avoid this Black Swan intraday event was this not a close meeting inside SE recently how to avoid this go ahead I didn&#39;t know see with respect to these risk factors which you have mentioned of course you know there are multiple risk lay factors there so when if you&#39;re an algo Trader or if you&#39;re an automated Trader the risk starts from the API structure itself what if in case the API disconnects what if in case the broker disconnects okay so if the broker disconnects you have multiple Brokers so what if in case the exchange goes down I think n has gone down in 2021 or some no date where the whole date was down right and coming to sensex has happened three times yeah and coming to sensex which is gaining volumes recently on Fridays in fact on Fridays more than Bank Nifty Nifty and all NS indices BAC indices NX is having the highest volume highest turnover now but with respect to exchange wise see nsec has two Disaster Recovery sites one in chenai and one in some other place and one in their actual operations but when you have these comparison between NSE and BC NC is way way better than BC but of course if BC Exchange itself is goes down what would happen recently there was some instance where the adapter was not getting connected to the broker the orders was not going through and when you handle these kind of issues you have to conclude two things first thing is what is the worst case scenario if Market tanks th000 points or if you&#39;re not able to square off your positions say the intraday positions becoming an overnight what would what would be the worst case scenario what is the maximum loss that you could face so that is where know as mad mentioned what would be the number of lots that you need to bring in so just because I&#39;ve kept 15 points stop loss I cannot just trade no higher number of quantity that 15 points can easily jump my position if it is not closed and if it is getting no opened up tomorrow because of huge gap up that is going to get affected so all these things will definitely be there you can&#39;t avoid it and the only way to avoid all these things is as M said you have to stop trading only other way the proper thing is to reduce the potion size so that even if there is any worst case scenario because even in intrade if you see in 2000 or during this 20 hour attack the market opened and it was closed in between and it opened after 15 days so during the intraday time itself they&#39;ve shut down the markets and they stopped it and they opened it after 15 days so imagine if your intraday position is open and suddenly the market closed and in case if it opens after 15 days with a huge gap that kind of with a terrorist attack so the market would be extremely bearish so where your positions would be so just because your back test only has five back toback losses or if your back test has X percentage of Throne that is not going to happen assume your worst case scenario and figure out what would be the ideal portion that you can trade that is the only way to handle it you can&#39;t avoid all these things and being in no Indian markets with huge turnovers and all this that might happen has nicely instilled fear no can can you give me any tumble  the thing is that&#39;s what these are Black Swan events considering this I should be trading one one lot for 10 lakhs so that&#39;s not going to help also in terms of return also right so so have a say uh say for an example if Market goes up or goes down in one set direction to a huge extent if you&#39;re an option seller definitely the overall results is going to be skewed because of these events so if you have an option buying system also in place so if you&#39;re long as well if you&#39;re going no Short net position you will be long if Market moves in such kind of no drastic moves so when you combine these kind of option buying as well as option selling system to a know to Greater extent you can control the damage last three questions thank timing time is up I didn&#39;t realize that it&#39;s yeah and how many of you here know wants to get into full-time trading currently working and get into full-time trading so you guys must be having more questions because when you want to jump from your profession to full-time trading that is when know you will have this dialma should I go or not and people who know before I get into full-time trading I was making good returns but the moment you came into full-time trading the kind of mind mindset that you have as a part-time Trader versus fulltime Trader is totally totally different so you do not have any questions related to fulltime Trad last three questions because we are out of time uh myself I&#39;m a Trader and algo okay developer and investor so my question is investing and trading both are like a business we consider right so so these days like say we uh imposing the disrupt um rules like uh for all goals everybody need to write a certification and like U extending hours right so how this kind of situation we had right as a retailer Traders or investors so is there any plan to this kind of disruptive systems in come is a completely infrastructure changing right they are increasing ours how can we plan for our business this kind of thing right otherwise everybody is confusing about these kind of stuffs yeah it&#39;s is a regulator right right a regulator can do anything they want so you know they want to let&#39;s say increase the hours I think that talks has been going on um Mr panage from NC is here so uh the talks has been going on but unfortunately it didn&#39;t materialize that the same way Regulators are Regulators they&#39;re going to do whatever they want to do so I always tell this to people you know Traders are the most adaptable human beings in the world we keep on adapting right so there is is there any other choice other than adapting we have to adapt so so you&#39;ll have to figure out a ways of being in the market after 330 if it gets extended you&#39;ll have to see for example leverage went off right one and a half years ago leverage completely went off the people who are into option selling three years two years before this particular day let&#39;s say from 2021 or before that they made you know a lot of money due to leverage Now The Leverage route is gone so but still people adapted still so many new people are coming into the market so we will adapt other than that I think we will have to cross the bridge when it comes and moreover this is not totally new you know see if you read this book a bull bear and other Beast where they have specifically explained what has happened in Indian markets for the last 25 years from 1992 till date where initially the actual working hours with respect to Indian exchange is only two and half hours only two and half hours correct and eventually the increase is to know couple of more hours then I think 10:00 the market started yeah from 9:55 so 9:55 it started and then eventually you know what now the main focus on to extend the you know the market timing is to increase their overall volumes in general see beyond 330 the maximum volumes is going to go abroad I thought increasing hours was to Save retail increasing saving retail see nobody is ready to sit see by sitting it&#39;s from 9:00 to 3:00 itself no we are done exactly we are burning out already and extending and moreover you don&#39;t need to sit in front of a system from 9:00 to 11:55 to make money right it&#39;s up to the your own trading systems how you want to control it but no having said that these regulations and everything will keep coming in yes and people will always find a way to adopt to it absolutely yeah the last two questions last sir last question okay last question sorry last question sir my name is Bones I&#39;m from Andra Pradesh I&#39;ll get your question later sir what should we consider if we want to scale up our Capital with respect to psychology and emotions statistics also scaling the capital with respect to psychology and statistics okay so yeah I can cover this up M but I have to explain this with a very small Story Probably it&#39;s going to take five more minutes I&#39;ll explain this in scaling up of this knife and stab you no no no I&#39;ll finish it I&#39;ll finish it two minutes yeah maximum 2 minutes see I also had the same issue so what happens is whenever you trade with five Lots or 10 lots you&#39;ll really make very good profits and know over a period of few weeks or a few months you will realize okay I&#39;m really making good profits why don&#39;t I increase my Capital from 10 lakhs to 50 lakhs so immediately you will increase your Capital to 50 lakhs and then again you are not used to the fluctuations of the markets so what happens is see there is a beautiful story which I&#39;ve read multiple years before following that incident I was able to adap to it and I was able to scale up to the capital from where I am now see there is a guy called Milow I&#39;ve shared the story multiple times many people would know it so there is a guy called Milow so this guy is know based out of no ancient gree where there used to be a wrestling match or weightlifting match that used to happen every single time and this guy Milow is the world champion in that where he has one back-to-back champion in the weightlifting competition so one day they announced a competition stating that so we are going to have a match between Milow and another competitor where know they are going to announce within next few years they are going to have a match together on the stage and now everybody is curious to see how these two guys are going to get trained in order to win that match so one guy is anyways a superstar know Championship but the other guy the competitor is completely new so everybody is curious how this competitor is going to win this match so now once this news is announced this competitor what he do is he directly went to the market and he bought a very big bull so that you could lift that and train hard so now people are even more Curious see even a competitor itself if he&#39;s going and buying a big bull to handle it definitely Milo must be having a super good plan to take over so now what Milo does was he just went to the same markets and he bought a very small cough now people wondered why a world champion who won backto back no white listing Champion has just bought a small C whereas the competitor bought a very big bull so now over the years what happened was the competitor is trying to lift that bull every single day but he couldn&#39;t lift it because it out WIS his own weight whereas Milow who has bought a small cough he just put it on his shoulder and wherever he goes he lift this scalf and he&#39;ll go whether it is to the markets or where to the no training field wherever he goes he&#39;ll lift it so over the years he is used to the weight of the calve since he&#39;s carrying it on his shoulder every single day so over a period of years once at the time of the wrestling I mean the weightlifting match happens this calf has grown into a big bull so at the time of this know this exact match he was able to lift that bull effort LLY but the first guy who bought the big bull on day one he couldn&#39;t lift at all so this is exactly what we do with po sizing so as long as you scale your capital from 3 to 10 10 to 15 15 to 20 you are getting used to the fluctuations of MTM so you would be able to handle it you will not stop it abruptly but if you are like the competitor who is to scale up the capital immediately and trying to do it definitely not possible so this is the right way to scale up to just Summit up all I want to Big Time congratulate Kish ASA and I think na I guess she&#39;s the one speaking so give give them a big round of applause guys it&#39;s not a joke to me know maintaining this kind of convention organizing it it&#39;s yeah even Saddam was a key player here so thank you so much guys thanks for the opportunity and if you have so any more questions you can ask [Music] later

Transcript for:Ask Me Anything with Madan Kumar and Kirubakaran

Transcript for:
Ask Me Anything with Madan Kumar and Kirubakaran