You're going to become the average of your five closest friends, right? So, I want to make sure that I surround myself with people who believe similar to me. That's why we chose our kids friends. I first heard about Adele Natural Cosmetics on Ali Bestucky's podcast, and I was really eager to try their clean, chemical-free cosmetics. And let me tell you, I was really impressed by Adele's luxurious, heavyweight packaging and high quality products inside. I started off using the highlighter glow stick and the bronzer stick. I absolutely love how creamy and subtle both products are while also lasting all day. Adele carries everything for your daily skin care needs as well as color cosmetics and so much more. The newly releasleased moisturizing foundation is rapidly becoming a customer favorite. Can't wait to try it. It's a gamecher, combining the benefits of skin care and makeup all in one convenient stick form. The cream blush is a creamy balm with a glowing pop of color that I cannot wait to try either. Follow Adele on Instagram. That's Adele Natural Cosmetics for lots of tutorials, behind the scenes, and encouraging content. and use my one-time use code for 25% off your first order. Use the code Candace for 25% off your first order. [Music] Life is like a roller coaster, but it's better when we go through it together. Welcome to the Candace Cameron Bur podcast. We are in season 10 and we are having such great conversations with my son Lev and my guest co-host Jonathan Pucluda whose newest book is called Your Story Has a Villain. And if you're watching on YouTube, please click to subscribe and make sure you tap the bell so you know when a new video comes out. Come join us. [Music] Come on. Come on. And we're back. I've got a question for you guys. What? Like just I was thinking about this. Well, I talked to Monica last night and um so I'm gone. I'm on the road right now and that's like not I won't say a point of contention, but it's a it's something to navigate. And I was like, how did you do that? Like when the kids were younger, how like were you were you on the road all the time when they were young or how did that how did you navigate that? I so I was always home with them for the first 10 years of their life because I I took a 10-year break. So you stepped away from acting. Stepped away from acting to be home with the kids. And at that time Val was still playing hockey, so he was on the road a lot. Pro hockey. Pro hockey. Yeah. And then and then when it it switched, he stayed home and then I went back to work and I started traveling more and we always felt like as long as one of us was home the majority of the time like that we were happy with that and then we you know tried not to be away too much but at this or you know I wouldn't but at the same time I mean there were definitely seasons where we did not get it right and I was way too much and um and it was hard probably hard on the kids, hard on Val and then there were other seasons where it worked really well. It's a weird balance like and I I don't know that anyone gets it perfectly right unless you're just home every day for your kids, but there's always I feel like there's always going to be resentment to some level and you might not hear it till later. Yeah, Lev told me one time I was like never there for him and missed all of his hockey games and I was like I was at like 95% of them and you're remembering the five that I that I weren't at and he was like you weren't there for me and like do you still feel like that? No. you know, and I think it's it's like child to child. Like every child wants something different and needs something different. And you know, I think the difficult part that parents probably have to do, the difficult work is figuring out what it is for each child. That's just my my my guess. But um and no, I think at least for me, it was always important or I felt very loved and special when parents were there for important moments. Yeah. Um, I didn't like it didn't affect me as much if one parent wasn't there on the dayto day, but uh, you know, birthday celebrations, whatever it is. I I hated when my parents went to my games. You hated it. Yeah. So, it's a it's a really interesting cuz you tend to give people what you want, you know? And um, and it's really important to one of our kids that were there. The other ones, the one that's most like me is kind of like, eh, I don't care. But I didn't like it cuz I just felt so much pressure when they were there. And I was never great at anything athletic. So, you know what's so interesting though that that you felt pressure from your parents and then like for me I felt like if they weren't there watching I just wanted the pat on the back. So it was like great job great job whether I did a great job or not. I just funny you know like if I'm at the free throw line I'm like oh man my parents are here I'm going to miss the shot. My my like head head talk was not selft talk was not good but um how did you and Val meet? We met at a charity hockey game here in LA. You play hockey? He played hockey. Okay. And I was 18. Val was 20 and yeah it was a Luke Robbitai charity game and it had celebrities and pros. So Val was one of the pros and his brother and then um Dave Kouier who played Joey on Full House. He's a big hockey guy. So he was playing in the game in real life or just on the show. No, in real life cuz on the show he was too. Yeah, cuz they wrote it in cuz like he's a big Detroit Red Wings fan. Gotcha. So, um, Ghee was playing in that game and then Bob Saget was like the honorary coach on the celebrity side and John Stamos was there too and then Dave invited me and Lorie to go watch. So, we all the five of us just went together to this hockey game, but then Dave introduced me to Val. Yeah. Come on. And the rest is history. Let's go. So, did y'all y'all started dating when Yeah, we we literally met on like after like on an escalator. He loves telling that part of the story. He loves it. He's like, "I was going up. Your mom was going down. I pulled it away. Stop." And he's like, "Lev, if I didn't turn around and go down that escalator, you would not be here." Wow. I love it. It was so cute. Yeah. So, he went back down and he was like, "Give me your number." And I wrote my number on a blank check back in the day. So, I was like, "Here you go." Gave him a blank check. That's a That's a big flex. Yeah. Hey, here's a blank check with my I I didn't even realize it. I was just so nervous. I had never given my phone number to any on the check cuz like you know that in the on checks it has a phone number on it sometimes used to. Totally. But he called me the next morning at like 10:00 a.m. He was like, "Can we go to lunch? Let's go. Sure." So we did and then Yes. Yeah. The rest is history. Then you made it. You made it into the scene somehow someway. But we're here. Come on. That's great. I love it. How did you and Monica meet? My She was my best friend's sister. Oh, yes. I wasn't a good guy in college and so he and I were running buddies and just doing all the terrible college things. Uhhuh. And one time, I mean, I I it's a terrible story. I was we were at a party and I was like giving him a hard time. I was like, "Hey, you should invite your sister." And I had never met her. And I was like, "You should invite your sister over here." And he did. And I have no idea why. doesn't even make sense, but he did. And so she comes to the party and I was like, "What? That's your sister?" And um and so then I would just give him a hard time about it all the time. Again, I'm a bad thinking about last episode like I'm I'm the guy that needs the gospel, you know? Right. And uh and so you know we we started dating um at first secretly. This is a terrible story to hide it from her brother. Yeah. And um and so then secret love. Okay. Maybe not. I don't know. Maybe you were cross lover you know Romeo and Juliet. But um anyways, so we start dating and uh we date for a while and I'm I really like then it kind of all comes to light but he and I so then we're aranged. Oh wa. Yeah. It doesn't go well. Was he more mad that you didn't tell him or that you were were dating her cuz he didn't like you dating his sister? He didn't like me dating his sister and again I wasn't a good guy so it made sense. But he saw a change in me cuz I was I was you know in stayed in that relationship which was not my mo. And then I was at a club 22 years ago and someone invited me to church and I went hung over. I sat in the back row smelt like smoke from the night before you know and uh I started wrestling with what do I believe about God and I started studying world religions cuz I was like I got to figure this out and kept kept tripping over Jesus. And I I went to Monica and so she was raised uh in Church of Christian Science and I was raised Catholic. And so we both had a little bit of Jesus and a lot of other things. And I said, "Hey, what do you believe?" And she actually articulated the gospel. She's like, "I believe Jesus died for my sins and raised from the dead." Something like that. And I said, "That's what I believe. Let's build on that foundation." And so we started going to church together. And it was messy. like she would come up and stay with me and we would go to church and we would go out to the club the night before and we go to church Sunday morning and and as we did that I was like, "Hey, you know, I think we've got to cut out the physical stuff, you know, and and she was so ready for that conversation." Like she was like, "Man, I she wanted to do the right things." Mhm. And uh and so we started pursuing Jesus and really like four months later I proposed and then four months after that we were married. Wow. Yeah. So it was it was really clunky and the first year was like amazing and year two the wheels fell off. It was like how do we do this? Uh I cuz I I was just I mean I had never been in a committed relationship. I was a recovering porn addict, sex addict, alcoholic. I mean all all had all these like long list of vices and now I'm okay I love Jesus I'm in a marriage I feel really stuck and um and so uh year two she got pregnant and you know that was just like it's they say marriage is a mirror to show you how selfish you are having a baby was that mirror for me it was like I am so selfish cuz we weren't sleeping Presley didn't sleep for 9 months she didn't sleep for more than uh 2 hours for 9 months. We had lost our minds. We went crazy. So hard. And um and so then community, like last episode we talked about that community piece that they really came in and saved our marriage and put the wheels back on and now we've been married 20 over 20 years. Let's go. And congratulations. Yeah, it's been it's been amazing. That's a great story. I mean, it's a great testimony. Yeah. Praise God. Incredible. Truly. Praise God. I mean, it's incredible to just when you when you hear how I I said earlier, I I haven't heard anyone quote the Bible like you have and just quoting scripture and knowing all of verse. I mean, it just it just flows out of you um in a way that is really impressive to me. Not that you're doing it in a in a place to impress. It's just you spend time with God. spend time in God's word like you know it and that's the only way you can know that and so to hear your testimony from where you started to where you are now and leading so many young people so many young adults to Christ and people just all over the world in general and every person that you meet at a coffee shop and all and sitting on an airplane or whatever. It's incredible. What a testimony. Yeah. Thanks for saying that. Yeah. Thank you. We I'm excited about today's topic because we're talking about that the villain deconstructs. Yeah. And the first when I hear deconstructs, I'm thinking of deconstruction of the church, deconstruction of faith, religion, because that be has become wildly popular, that word in particular, like, oh, I'm deconstructing my faith. Oh, I grew up a Christian, but I'm deconstructing it now cuz I'm what? pulling the threads of all the things that aren't right in it. I mean, tell me what you think that means because I feel like it does have a different definition depending on who you're talking to. Some people may think it's coming from a healthy place and then I just see people completely tearing it down. Yeah. I think if we're going to rope in everybody on this word, I mean, it it is a um it's a product of doubt. So if if you don't really get your heart around the word deconstruction, I would think in terms of doubt because everybody who is of faith at some point in their life has struggled with doubt. Now if you continue if you do something with that doubt what people are calling that process today is deconstruction. So even we we started in a beautiful place it wasn't planned I know but as you think about my own journey having been raised in the church I mean Catholic church Lutheran church Baptist church I had I had a foot in each of those denominations uh growing up I really came to this place where I have all of these ideologies that were taught to me by people and I just erased the whiteboard and I said okay what is the foundation of what I believe after I looked at the Hindu faith the Buddhist faith Jewish faith, Islamic faith, Mormons, Jehosh Jehovah's Witness, Church of Christian Science, Scientology. I I really came to this place of like, all right, I believe this is true. This is this is the foundation of what I believe, which you know, I had heard the Bible was changed as an example. Like, oh, we can't trust that it was it was changed. Well, I I learned as I studied, wow, one of the greatest archaeological discoveries to date is the Dead Sea Scrolls. It actually predates the dark ages when people said the Bible was changed. And it actually shows us that the Bible hasn't been changed. That what we have today is very reliable to the to the original text. And they you people will say, "Well, there's lots of different versions out there. Um the NIV, the NASB, the ESV, the NLT, the King James, the New King James." Yeah. But I started looking at all those different versions and realized they all essentially teach the same thing. the the version is really just a sentence structure. The King James, for example, is is is written in like almost Elizabethanian or Shakespearean, you know, and and so you you get rid of some of the eths and the the ETH's, if you will, and and see, oh, it's essentially says the same thing that the ESV does, which which is just a different sentence structure and with a different um it gives different observations to words. Uh but it's teaches the same thing as the NIV and which is so similar to the NASB. And when you begin to realize that like oh wow the message of the Bible hasn't changed. The the versions don't teach different ideas. They were just translated from Hebrew and Greek and a little bit of Aramaic. And so wow I came to this place where like I think I trust this as if there's a God or creator that heavens the earth and he's going to give us some kind of instruction. It makes sense that I I think that that is the Bible and you have other options, the Gita, the the Quran, there's other holy books, but I came to a place where it's like, you know what, I believe it's the scripture, the holy bible. And so that became the foundation that I built on, which is why I, you know, I know those verses not because I memorized them. I there really I mean there was one short season where I I grabbed like 10 verses and tried to commit them to memory but other than that it's just living in this you know teaching it for for over a decade now and uh and and so that that was my reconstruction which is what I will tell your listeners and viewers if you deconstruct you have to reconstruct. Yeah. Uh I'm from Waco and so there's a couple there that they're known for fixing up houses. Fix her upper is is the show. It was a TV show. And and so they there's something there called demo day, which is when they go into an old house and they start to tear out the walls and the they tear it take it down to the studs and move walls and and reconstruct. You cannot stay at demo day. You know, you have to at some point say, "All right, I'm going to rebuild now because your story has a villain." And as you deconstruct, that's when the demons come around and they say, "All right, this is our moment. This is our chance. This is when they're vulnerable. Let's try to lead them towards some rogue ideology, some rogue theology." We are all, we can all be conspiracy theorists. We we want to buy into, you know, the Da Vinci Code or some weird idea out there, some false ideology, you know, the stars or tarot cards or anything the the our horoscope, anything that will will put us in the position to be God because that's the satanic spirit on the land. Don't worship God, seek to be God. Right. Yeah. I love that. No, I was say it reminds me of one of my favorite books of all time by CS Lewis. It's called The Great Divorce. And in it, there's a quote, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he says something uh in the same way that thirst was made for water, inquiry is made for truth. Wow. And you know, we were given uh this this sense of being thirsty so that we would find water. And I love that, you know, our sense of curiosity, our sense of inquiry should bring us to a place where we want to find truth. And I think I agree that's what's missed is there there's a lot of deconstruction, but there's no reconstruction. And the whole reason God has given us an ability to be curious, to be inquisitive, is ultimately to find him and his truth. When I scroll through Tik Tok and I hashtag deconstruction, most of the the feed that I see come through are people that have deconstructed, stripped down their faith, but then have felt like it's just all lies. So, they're just like it it was all a lie. It was all BS. I don't believe it anymore. This is what the church tried to teach me. I believed it for 20 years, and now I'm going to do my life my way. But how does how does that happen? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's um it's born out of legalism. So, I give you a passage. Uh it's first Timothy 4. It says, "The the spirit clearly says that in the latter times, let's call this the latter times." This was written 2,000 years ago. Um some will abandon the faith, # Tik Tok, and follow deceiving spirits. Okay. Now, we're talking about the demonic and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars whose consciences have been seared with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to aband uh to abstain from certain foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe who know the truth. For everything God created is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. And then he goes on to say, if you point these things out, but um so there's there's something taught by demonic spirits or deceiving spirits, it's rules that are extra biblical. So we talked about legalism, but I don't know that we've defined it. Legalism is when you add instruction to what the scripture says and you make it universal. Here's an example. I could say, um, it's not good for me to have a TV in my bedroom. you know, that's not that's not I that lacks accountability. I don't really trust myself. I shouldn't have a TV in my bedroom. That that's fine. That's a wisdom principle. If I say you can't be a Christian and have a TV in your bedroom, Mhm. Well, now we're in legal legalistic territory. I've taken the scripture and I've added to it. So, what was happening here is they say, "Well, you can't get married or you you need to abstain from these foods." Now, you can say like, "Listen, I'm going to do keto. I'm going to diet. I'm not going to eat these kinds of foods. But you can't say the Bible says you can't. You know, the Bible says you need to lower lower your carbs. The Bible says because that would be or you can't be a Christian and eat carbs. That would be anal legal that would be legalistic. And so a lot of times people deconstruct because they were raised in in a faith where they had these really strict rules or they they found out they start to read this for themselves and they realized I've been doing these things only because someone told me to. And that was a part of my story as I as I realized some of the faith that I uh some of the denominational beliefs that I grew up in. I couldn't find them in the scripture, right? And I was like, "Wait, I'm not going to keep doing that. I don't I don't know why I'm doing that. And so I I I started to deconstruct. But what's happening, Candace, is you know the as as they are led astray and they look at what they they feel so angry by a person. People people have church hurt. No one has church hurt. They have a person who hurt them from the church. You know, if you're out there and you're watching, you're listening, you're like, "The church hurt me." You you have to identify who in the church hurt you because the church is a really big institution. And it wasn't the institution that hurt you. It was a person, a representative. And you have a process to to reconcile to that person or to at least tell that person that they hurt you. But you don't want to hide behind this banner of like the church, the the billions of people on earth that represent the church hurt me. That that wouldn't be true. That wouldn't be intellectually honest. But a lot of people sit there and it gives them the excuse they need to run and to go do the own the thing that they want to do, which is really what I think we're all after. That's that satanic spirit. That's I want to do what I want to do. Yeah. I like that you explained church heart that way also because I hear that word so much. So it comes down to these these five questions is is what I would challenge people to ask is is God real? Is God powerful? Is God good? Is God for me? And then the last one is that church hurt. Can I trust God's people? And um you know, or or you might even say, should I surround myself with God's people? But I would just say, man, if God is good and God is powerful and God loves you, that's an unbelievable equation to to get to your peace. God is good. God controls everything. and he's crazy about me. What am I gonna worry about then? You know, if God is good plus God loves me plus God is powerful equals my peace. I'm gonna operate. I'm going to go through this world and I'm going to say, "Okay, what is God's purpose for my life and I'm going to do it and I'm going to have peace and I'm going to sleep like a baby at night because I'm loved by the creator of the heavens, the earth, and he controls everything and he and he's and he's good, you know. So, let's go." [Music] Hi, friends. I know life can feel heavy at times and we all need reminders of God's love and strength. So mark your calendars. My devotional 100 days of joy and strength will be available on June 24th, but you can pre-order now. My friends at Zandervan created a fresh new edition just for you. This DVO has daily encouragement, Bible verses, and prayer prompts to help you stay grounded and hopeful even when life is tough. And there's more good news coming this October. My brand new devotional, Rise and Renew, comes out. Are you in? Join me on this 100day journey of faith. Check out the link in the show notes to order yours today. 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[Music] I think maybe we talked about this in a couple episodes ago, but I mean either of you could answer this and you you talked about looking into everything, stripping stripping away all the things that you were raised in and then going, I'm just going to read the Bible and find it for myself. But I want to know um m from you, Lev, was there ever a moment of real doubt about God in your life or have you always has faith always come naturally to you? No. And I think for me personally, one of the things I want to grow in more of as a Christian is faith. Uh and there's been lots of moments of doubt. A lot of that for me comes from, you know, very philosophical or intellectual arguments that will compete with the Bible. And it's it's not that some of those arguments even uh, you know, win, for lack of a better term, but they just make you think. Sure. And I think that's the way even the enemy can work with deconstruction is he'll take one little uh doubt or one little possibility against the Bible and he'll just, you know, that thought will sew a seed and it'll spread like wildfires of possible other doubt. And so uh you know we mentioned in past episodes like ironically my greatest struggles with doubt were when I was studying the Bible more intimately than I ever have in my life. Um what was it? Do you remember what it was that you began to wrestle with? So, it started with uh actually a class about creation. Uhhuh. And so, I grew up with uh with a uh one view of creation and the class would uh present all the different possibilities that Christians have taken about creation over the years. And it just I kind like theistic evolution. Exactly. Theistic evolution. Uh you know, young earth versus old earth. It just presented all the options. And then it kind of just made me think like, man, if there's like so much diversity in belief about this one little thing, like what does that say for the rest of the Bible as well and its validity and its truth and and I went on a whirlwind of emotion and doubt and and it really just made me think. But uh to bring it back, I think the point I got back to was being rooted and secure in those foundational beliefs and working from there. Yeah, there's a there's a contradiction in the scripture. It talks about King Johin Johiken. Um, one place it says he's 8 years old when he became king. Another place it says he's 18 when he became king. I found this early in my studies. I was like eight and 18. And I just thought there it is. Like I've disproved the Bible. Like there's there's a mistake. There's an error right there. I'm I'm the first person to find it, you know, in my naivity, right? And I just thought I it can't be trusted. And uh and somebody was like, "Hey, I bet I bet you somebody has written about that." Lo and behold, there's like libraries of books written about this, like articles. I mean, so many people have have found this, talked about it. And it just showed me like, wow, there's nothing new under the sun, and there's really good explanations for this, you know, why this happened, why it's there. And I think that's so often our doubt. If we can narrow it down to a question and then ask the question like that's all you have to do is like find identify. A lot of people just get stuck there like I don't even know what my questions are. That can be a demonic spirit. Like that can be something that the enemy it says really what is characteristic of the enemy in scripture is he seeks to confuse people. He seeks to blind minds. And so when we're sitting there and like we can't even find what our question is, it's a good um indicator that the enemy might be at work. But if you can identify what your questions are, like, hey, is it six day creation? Is it tectonic plates? Is it uh you know, there's there's other theories of a global flood? Uh what about evolution? What about Darwin? Didn't Darwin teach that we all came from monkeys? Or how does that fit in the you know, Genesis 1 and 2 narrative? Like you're not going to be the first person to ask these questions and you have to understand there's brilliant people. Like we all have to intellectually grasp that there is someone much smarter than each of us that believes different than us. I can take William Lane Craig, brilliant mind, uh who's going to um disagree with Richard Dawkins, another brilliant mind, both brilliant minds of our day. Uh right now Wesley Huff is a a brilliant apologist in Canada. uh you know he can debate um brilliant scientist you know an atheist and and at the end of the day there's smart people who disagree and so we have to individually do the work and and come to this place you might say well we don't have the original manuscript the original Bible doesn't exist it's like yeah but you got to understand the more ancient manuscripts we have the more they prove that that the text that we have is accurate and and true to what the original document said because we have over 20,000, you know, manuscripts, ancient manuscripts that we can we can look at and and the more we find, the more accurate it gets, the more the more it shows that, oh, the Bible is true, that it can be the it can be trusted. It is true to the original text. So, you just have to identify your question and ask. And there's great resources out there like gotquestions.org or karmm.org. org and probe.org which is backed by scientists. So lots of resources and then sometimes there's certain topics and for me I'm like I just don't care. Does it really make a difference? Does it make a difference in my faith walk if I believe in a six day or a 7-day creation? Is it going to change something about God that I do don't already know in a way that I have relationship with him? And for me I'm like nope. A curiosity factor might be like, oh, I'd like to just know a little bit about that so I have some understanding, but it doesn't deeply affect my faith if I know those if I have certain opinions on even I can we talk about like Calvinism and Armenianism all the time. It because it's just a fun conversation. Most most moms and sons do, right? Exactly. That's pretty normal. Yeah. We're sushi. So, Jacob Arminians. No, I think but even in that, but like but at the end of the day, I'm just like it doesn't change for me who God is and my relationship with him and my desire to honor him, to please him, to read my Bible, to know him, like all of those things. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's it's important to note that we're all like God wired us different and we're all products of our upbringing uh where we were born to the family we were born to our religious upbringing and so everybody's going to come to this place of like man I've just kind of taken this because it was fed me and now I need to make my faith my own or maybe you know maybe you weren't fed anything and now you say okay I need to figure out what I actually believe but I I I think a lot of deconstruction is born out of um feeling weird amongst Christians. And I'll give you an example like like I love sunsets. I'm a big sunset guy. I mean I'm I'm chasing sunsets. So I try to take that in. Lev loves sunsets. I mean truly like I I was we're we're here in LA and I'm like I don't care where we eat but I need to I'm here with a friend like we need to eat somewhere where I can see the sun sunset, you know, cuz it just stirs my affections for God. I I've got another friend and he just like he just sees a ball of fire and it's not beautiful to him. It doesn't stir anything in him. He's not he's an he's an engineer. He sees the world in ones and zeros, you know, and um and code and that kind of thing, right? And so if I if I say like look, don't you see God in that sunset? Then he feels weird and that may drive toward a deconstruction. So to understand the manifold wisdom of God that there's diversity. We see this in in 1 Corinthians 12 that that some people are eyes and some people are ears and some people are hands and some people are feet making up the body of Christ. And we're all have different leanings and inclinations and wirings. And so as we as you piece us together, we actually make the body of Christ and our gifts operate in different ways. And so as you deconstruct, think, hey, how did God make me? How did he wire me? and how did he wire me to do uh to to live out my faith? Because if I can partner with someone different than me, now we're strengthening we're strengthening the church as we fight the enemy that exists here in the world, the villain. Yeah, that's good. I love that. Even that once you get to that place where you can approach that conversation humbly that, you know, we all do look at things differently. I think that, you know, it even brings beauty to our eyes in ways that we haven't seen before when we get to have it explained or seen through the perspective of others. Yeah. So, let's talk practically a little bit for someone that has is deconstructing. You said what you have to do after the demo day Yeah. is now rebuild it, right? So, what are what are some of the best ways to do that? Find your source of truth. For starters, you you've got to find your source of truth. And so I'm I'm I believe it's the scripture unapologetically. Like I believe the Bible is true. I believe it can be trusted. I believe it tells us about the character of God. I believe it tells us how to have a right relationship with God through his son Jesus Christ. I believe it tells us how to treat each other. Uh the greatest commandment, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And the second is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself. Um it teaches a a charitable way to live. There's something out there called Pascal's wager, which is to say like if I'm talking to an atheist and I say, if if you're right and I'm wrong, then then ultimately I've just lived according to the Bible and I've lived an amazing life. I I've loved people well, like I've, you know, and then we both die and we both end up in the ground and we both were worm food and we rot, you know. But if I'm right and you're wrong, you know, then then you've lived a life that is uh tends to be a little bit more self-absorbed. But when you die, you suffer the greatest consequence and I inherit a kingdom, you know, uh to to be with God in paradise. And so it cost you nothing to go my way, but it could potentially cost me everything to go your way. Wow. And so that's that whole Pascal's wager thing. And so I think you have to figure out for yourself. You have to do the homework. you have to put in the work like what is it that I believe? What's the foundation of of my truth? And if you're I say my truth, absolute truth. Yeah. Because we live in a time where it's like everyone has their own truth and their truth and her truth and his truth and you know, so it's not my truth. It's what is absolute truth. And then you begin to construct on it. And and here's I can promise you this. I don't want to bait and switch you. You're going to run into something that's going to be really inconvenient for you. Like meaning your life, the trajectory of your life, it's going to bump up against something where you're like, "Oh, that has to change. My my buying habits may need to change. My my dating life may need to change. The way that I live with my spouse, uh the way that I treat them may need to change. The way that I interact with my coworker, it may need to change. The my work ethic may need to change. But that's not where we start. That's going to come later. Where we start is like, do I believe Christ died for my sins? Do I believe that God raised him from the dead?" You have to answer that question. And so as you start that that um as you find identify truth then you say all right where are the people that believe according to that and how do I surround myself with them? 1 Corinthians 15:33 says to not be deceived bad company corrupts good character. And so I you know brilliant psychologists I mean atheist psychologists have said you're going to become uh the average of your five closest friends right? So I want to make sure that I surround myself with people who believe similar to me. I can still That's why we chose our kids' friends. Yeah. It's partly true. We didn't but but partly true. Yeah. No, it's it's true. I mean and you know parents, if I can give you some advice, uh it would be learn to say no. I there's something about today where I think parents feel like they can't say no. It's like you can say no. I mean say no with ice cream, you know? Have a make your house fun. I mean, laugh, play games, like enjoy, but you can say no, you know. And so, um, you know, find those people, yoke yourself to them, I would say, like meaning become a member of a church that teaches the word. Yeah. And, and now you're building up, you know, now you're reconstructing. You you're removing walls and you're putting them where they need to be and you're making a beautiful home. Yeah. I want to do another episode on uh finding the right church helping because I mean I I have a great church but even even with the kids and helping them as they go on their own and they move just to find the right church in discerning good teaching and kind of fluffy Christian stuff. Um anyway that's up for another episode. Yeah. Well, if you if you find the perfect church, don't go there. Uh you'll ruin it because you're imperfect. But find a church that that teaches the Bible. I mean, it's really it's this episode is just like go back to to the things we talked about that they're they're building on the foundation of God's word and they hold it in high regard. And you know, you may not like the music. You may not like the length of the sermon. You may not like the comfort of the chairs or the temperature or how loud the music is, but find a church that teaches the truth and that they're going to deploy your gifts there. you know, because you have spiritual gifts and so they're going to deploy your gifts and and go all in there. Yeah, great advice. Okay, on to our listener question. This is from Judith. Hi, Judith. She writes in, I have a friend, oh, who recently lost her daughter who was an adult. The daughter was not saved and my dear friend had been praying desperately for her salvation. She's dealing with the thought, why pray anymore? Since God did not answer that prayer for her daughter, how can I help her? Yeah. Wow. Judith, your friend, um, you know, one of the examples of God's grace to your friend is you, Judith. that um she has someone that loves her so much that she would, you know, reach out through the the website to a podcast and asked a question that we can discuss it today. And um I think sometimes often people wrestle with why pray if you really understand the sovereignty of God. Um you know, why pray? And I would I would start here back to CS Lewis in Chronicles of Narnia. He says u because I think he likes it. M and um I think we lose the the personal nature of God that we're his children. And as a mama, you know this, as a daddy, I I know this, like I love when my kids talk to me. Like I I love like I I just, you know, one of the my greatest regrets, I guarantee it right now when they leave home is going to be this dumb phone that I I've have at times put in front of them. And I'm so sorry if my kids hear this. Like I always want to put that away when they're like, "Daddy, let's talk. Let me put my phone away. Let's talk. What do you want to talk about?" Because I I want to talk to my kids. And God wants us to talk with him. Prayer is not just us asking him for stuff. Uh prayer is actually us fostering a relationship with him and even listening to him. And then I would say the hope that I would give to your friend is we don't know what happened in those last moments of life in the in the in the um you know the drift towards the next life in the in the unconscious. I don't know if it was a immediate you know car accident or if it was uh a slow drift from cancer drifting into coma. I I don't know how your friend's daughter passed away, but uh I I I believe that I I choose to believe and I don't think it's naive and people are going to my critics are going to say that's so naive. I'm going say no. I choose to believe that if someone shared the gospel with her and prayed for her that that God in in in potentially the very last moments of her life saved her. And so that's how I share the gospel. When I shared the gospel with the Uber driver last night, I I believe that God's going to save him. And I don't think that's a naive position. It's it's what I see in the scripture is uh as we are faithful to share, God is faithful to save and we don't always get to see that. And and those are some of the most difficult situations to minister because death is this moment where I don't believe in inclusivism. Uh some say CS Lewis did. Uh he's much smarter than I am, but I don't believe in inclusivism. I don't believe we're we're we're given a choice after death. Uh I believe this life is what we have. Um and and this is our opportunity to choose Christ. And so if you're hearing this, I just implore you with anything I can and everything I am, choose Christ. Amen. Thank you guys. Yeah, it's a good conversation. It's a great conversation. Heavy but good. Yeah. And we'll be back next week, so join us. We also made a free PDF download this season called the No Fear Guide. Go to candace.com to find the link and ask a question while you're there. And a reminder, if you're watching on YouTube, click to subscribe. That really helps us. And then tap the bell so you don't miss a release. Until next time, be grateful all day, every day. Candy Rock Entertainment. All rights reserved. [Music]