Hey everybody, Nava Hopkins from Optimizer here and I am joined by the amazing, the brilliant Jenny Marvin. She is the liaison over at Google Ads and that means that she listens, takes in our feedback, she shares, she is usually at the cutting edge, the the spearhead of new announcements and helping us to understand them. and she was gracious enough to sit with us for an interview of your questions. Jenny, thank you so much for being with us. Thanks for having me, Nav. I'm really happy to be here. So, one of the things that's really nice about uh Jenny and her amazing perspective is that she comes from us. She Jenny Marvin started as one of the best forces for good at Third Door Media. uh she has lifted and empowered marketers of all shapes and sizes, all backgrounds and now she is the liaison uh at Google Ads to be our voice with the product as well as helping us understand some of the changes that are happening. And with that said, I can't think of a better first question to kick us off. What are you excited about? Like there are a ton of really interesting creative uh enhancements. There are a ton of really interesting enhancements to performance max which we may or may not be allowed to know yet. Um would would love to hear your perspective on some of those new and exciting changes. Yeah, I um you know I think PBC one of the reasons I've loved this and um I started in um on the agency side in 2005 and have been inhouse and consulted and done ecom and lead genen and worked in across all kinds of verticals and that one of the things that has drew me and I think draws a lot of people to PPC is the pace of change. um there's always something new um happening and on the horizon and this is a time of like exponential change. Um, I think, you know, I've said this many times and I'm not the only one to say this, but the transition to mobile was obviously a massive amount of transition for um customers and for obviously for marketers and this uh new wave and advancements in AI is bigger than that. And I think one of the things though that I see with a parallel with mobile is and AI is oftentimes the consumers are leading and marketers are slow to catch up. Uh and so I think we're now in that period of responding to changes in consumer behavior and the way they're searching um the way they're uh hopping across devices using um any number of platforms and channels. So that I think is where there's this really enormous opportunity to like meet consumers where they are, which sounds trit, but really is so important for making marketing work in today's age. So I think that's what I'm really excited about. So, one of the things that I'm I'm really interested in in what you were just saying is mobile ver and AI and kind of that change of pace. One of the main mechanics of the mobile search result page is just how we have maybe two headlines instead of three usually or um there's much more of a focus on visual and video content because it's much easier for us to consume that content in that way and to engage with a video or quick bit of audio versus reading a big long website. Do you see the different spots in the search result page carrying different say inventory prices or um even different mechanics going into this AI first world or do you see a lot of those um spots on the search result page still behaving essentially the same? It's just that there's net new ones that are AI focused. Yeah. So, the um auction dynamics haven't changed and so we um like I think you're alluding to recently updated our help center page to make it more clear about how um different locations on the page are function in separate auctions. Um that has actually been happening for many many years like well before I joined Google four years ago. So essentially the top ads have an auction, bottom ads have an auction but obviously when we know that shopping ads and local ads they have a separate auction as well. So with that help center update it it really is just more of a clarification versus nothing has changed in the way that the auction has is working. If that helps it it does. Can you give a little bit of transparency into how we should think about ad ranks impact on the auction price for those different parts of the search result page? Um, one of the bits that I know stood out to me and to a lot of folks um is that there might actually be a more expensive cost per click depending on on how close the ad rank is if if it's very competitive. Um, and I I know we've historically thought about well if I can get a really good quality score I can get cheaper clicks. So would love clarification there. Um is this just depending on the search result page, you might pay a little bit more, pay a little bit less, or is this something else? Yeah. So um just I'll back up a little bit. So ad rank first determines if you're eligible for the auction and then um where your ad will show relative to other um advertisers on the page. So when you have a competitive auction and you've got two ads that have similar ad rank, the and so an ad rank really is aimed at um showing the most relevant ad and the most relevant ad tends to have a lower cost per click than lower quality ads. So when you have two ads um that are excuse me very competitive um and have similar ad ranks, they will um typically the ad with the higher ad rank will still show um but may end up paying have a higher CPC in order to show ahead of the other ad that is has a similar ad rank to if that makes sense. So just just so I'm clear, if you have a good ad rank, you shouldn't be paying more per click. That's a misconception in people reading the documentation. So um ex there in the cases where you have two ads with very similar ad ranks, the one with the slightly higher ad rank may end up paying more to show higher on the page than the other one. that in those very like those really competitive um scenarios when you've got those two ads with very similar ad rank. So, but for the most part, yes, like your the ads with the higher ad rank will typically pay a lower CPC than lower quality ads. So, there's a couple of of places we can go here. I'll give you a choice of of which which we address first. would love your perspective on impression share, especially when an ad from the same advertiser can serve on multiple spots in the search result page and how we read that. Um, but I'd also love your perspective on quality score and and the role of quality score in in today's auction. So, do you have a preference on where we start? Uh, no, I can start with the first one and because I don't have much to share. There's an experiment going on now. Um, so I don't have anything really to share on that other than as a result of that experiment, you may see some changes in top impression rate and or absolute top impression rate and overall clickthrough rate. You may see a change there. Um, but you should not see um other top ad um metric changes. Got it. So then uh going to some of the the studies or or people who who have shared uh that they have seen their absolute top impression share drop. Is it fair to say then that that impression share went to AI overviews? Is it fair to say that it went to another ad type? Or is it just that you just had a everyone had a relative drop or a lot of people had a relative drop in impression share? Um Impression can double check, but there was a there was a short-term bug that impacted impression chair reporting that has been fixed. Amazing. So that that's super useful to know that it's not that people actually had problems. It was a just a reporting issue. So going to the quality score question, we at Optimizer are are clearly very much a fan of quality score and using it as a guide to know where to focus. There have been some who have said that quality score is dead. I'd love to get your perspective of how does quality score impact today's world um especially thinking about landing pages and the evolution of the of a web page and how ads might start serving in AI overviews and AI mode. Would love your perspective on quality score. Um, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say there's been any change to really how to think about quality score. Um, and certainly landing pages continue to be really important and you want your um landing page to be as relevant as possible to the ad, right? The whole goal uh is to serve an ad and a landing page that is highly relevant to the user what their need is, what their problem is that they're searching for. Um so you know the same kind of this is an example I think where fundamentals are still fundamental and they really haven't changed very much and so you know everyone's work on conversion rate optimization on their landing pages like that work is still extremely valuable. Um, and you know, if you've got you want your landing pages to be fast, particularly on mobile, you want um the if you've got, excuse me, if you got a call to action um or um uh promotion, you want that highly visible on the landing page so the user sees the ad, sees that um connection right there on the landing page. And then we did recently also talk about a um ads quality update that we made. Y um so I know there have been some questions about that as well. So the essentially that um update means that we will likely show landing ads that have landing pages with limited to no navigation less often because we found it is a poor user experience. Um I know a lot of especially lead genen folks like use um PBC only stripped down no navigation form based landing pages. Um again I would say it just we've found that it leads to poor user experience when advertisers can't navigate outside of that page. Um, so again, think about adding some simple navigation and uh make those pages fast and make them really relevant. I love that. There was a question specifically around how to improve the average score uh for lead genen sites uh for for for that metric. I'm assuming you just gave gave the checklist there. Yeah. One follow-up question. So cumulative layout shift or CLS um I believe uh the the quality score check for that is 8 seconds on render. Um if I'm if I'm off we can we can correct this or I is it five or is it 8 seconds? We'll have to check. Okay. I'm pretty confident it's 8 seconds, but I I I could be totally wrong. One of the the reasons I I bring up CLS is I don't know that enough people pay attention to it. Is there any potential plan that CLS could enter into our dashboard on the Google ad side that we could actually see what the CLS is um for our landing pages because then then we could know okay this page really needs help improving. Yeah, I not that I know of. I know that there are um in the help center when if you look for like landing page optimization um it'll help walk you through ways to test your speed and look at your landing page report. Yeah. But not that I know of as terms of an integration. Okay. Um so in the meantime you just plug your site in and and and just just check. But that is definitely I think an underutilized tool in the quest for a better quality score specifically on the landing page experience. Yeah. And I think like the you're I think you're right that a lot of people sort of forget about the speed piece of it. It was such a focus like several years ago and we sort of just forgot about it. Yeah. Or take it for granted. Um and so yeah, I think that's a really good point to keep that top of mind. One of the the things I'm really curious about is the future of AI ads. Um, we'll bring the uh the Mword Microsoft into the equation. They've launched a whole bunch of AI specific ads. And I'm really curious what the future of Google ads is going to look like. Are there going to be some comparable AI specific ads? Um, is it going to be more just you you rank appropriately for AI overviews or AI mode once it comes about? Would love any insights you can share. And I totally understand if this is I can't tell you the specifics but I can tell you generally where we're heading. I don't have specifics um but can definitely say that this is a massive focus for um the teams and thinking about um the best formats and use cases to give um users tailored experiences and across different channels. and wherever that happens to be where your ads are serving that that is a huge focus for the teams. Um and then going back to our our previous discussion um and then we'll we'll move on to other things. Do you see the landing page still mattering in the AI ad world or do you see it shifting to more of agents or that we just talk with Gemini in that chat or that it's just we're on the search result page? Um should we care about even people coming to a landing page? I I think if we're thinking now like what we can do now are um whatever you can control in terms of your creative assets. I think already though I would say things like your landing pages and your creative assets are what are helping to inform your generated assets and automatic assets. And so um I think branding is extremely fundamental. Your product differentiation is extremely fundamental and important. And so um whatever the mechanism it is that you're know your user experience is I think um you still want to be like just ultra ultra focused on what makes your brand your brand and what is going to make your brand resonate with your target customers and think about it like from that perspective and I'll plug Google's amazing resource for brand guidelines uh that you can apply for Performance Max Creative. Uh they are fantastic. Would love to eventually learn whether that's at Google Marketing Live or or future events of additional fonts being made available because I know sometimes we have to kind of fidget with those. Um but it it is a great resource to ensure that when Google is helping us with our ads that it it is in fact in line with our brand. one question and I I totally understand if this is still technically under NDA even though the whole of the internet found out about it. So PMAC search terms and channel distribution are coming but maybe not but maybe we don't know when they're coming. Would love any insights you can share about that. I don't have any insights to share on that. I will say I think you what you've seen over the last year or so is a real focus on bringing more insights, new controls, um really continuing to evolve PAX and I think you know we'll we'll continue to focus in those areas. So then less of a technical and more of a how we think about PAX. Um, I I really struggle with how many people call PAMAX the lazy man's campaign as well as the blackbox campaign. I think the campaign's been out what now three years. Um, and everyone predicted that it was going to kill search or it was going to just assimilate every single campaign type. What would you say to the skeptics who are still out there who believe that BMAX is going to absorb everything and we're just going to be in a big blob of Pmax? I would say um Pmax is there to use if you want to have a way to reach your potential customers across all of Google. Mhm. We also have search campaigns and display campaigns and standard shopping campaigns. And I think you've also seen um investments in those um and certainly in search there's a a whole lot of um work happening there. But um standard shopping campaigns and display uh innovations as well andor um features coming to PMAX as well as other campaign types demand gen um app campaigns as well. So that's that's what I would say and I would say that um you know they it can be complimentary. We've also see people who are PAX focused um and we have um advertisers who are heavy in search and use Pmax to augment that. So I think it's really your your choice. Another group did a did a comparable study, but when we looked at our own customer base, we found I think it was either 52 or 56% of advertisers didn't use exclusions with performance max. Um, and what I found really fascinating is that the ones that didn't use exclusions actually had better performance. Can you speak to how much we may be getting in our own way with negatives and with exclusions versus the very real need to protect our brands from whatever concepts or if there's a strategic need for a campaign to only serve to these sorts of folks. Um because I think a lot of people would really benefit from hearing not only Jenny with the Google hat on but then also Jinny the the marketer's take on that. First of all, there's constant suitability exclusions and use those for your um your your brand needs. Um I do think you know when we think about AI systems like flexibility matters. It does. And so again I kind of come back to like what's the fundamental? The fundamental is how does this AI system best work? What and what inputs can I give it that I know about my business Google doesn't know about my business. that I would also just sort of quick tangent just say that um the idea that Google wants to just take your campaign and run with it. There's so much that the marketer knows and only the marketer knows about their business um and their customers and it's so important to give that information into the system to help it optimize and find more of your great customers. So I think from an exclusion standpoint the the tools are there because we know there's um there requirements here and there but again I would just think about is this exclusion serving the best purpose of my of the business of the business and yeah AI works best when it has flexibility and so that's where your goals what who are the um who are your best audiences, how are you feeding that information back back into Google? Um setting your targets appropriately um and and giving those signals are just is really really important. So on on that note, demand genen was blessed with channel specific settings that we can say that we want to lean into or away from any of the various channels that demand genen has. PMAX currently still doesn't let us do that. And I'm curious if that's because Google is seeing that all of the channels are playing a role. Is it because we're not leaning into certain channel types but even though they're helpful? What what went into the decision to make it available for demand genen but not for PMAX? Yeah. So PMAX is designed like specifically designed to reach across all of Google inventory and it is uh goal-based and really your conversion conversion value based like that is what is it is designed to go after that that's essentially the the mission of um of PMAX um and finding those conversions demand genen is um has different marketing objectives. It certainly can be conversion focused and um but also has max clicks and branding awareness. Discovery is part of that as well. I mean it is a different campaign type. It is a different campaign type when you're thinking about sort of that middle of the customer journey. that might be a great place for demand genen to fit in and have those really um uh engaging visual but video and image creatives together. So the the last I'll ask about um with within performance max although I fully agree with you that performance max is ultimately a conversionoriented campaign type not everyone is going to hit the 50 conversions 60 conversions if we go by Google's language 15 to 30 conversions needed in in a month does that mean that not every customer should use performance max or does that mean that we need to get better at micro conversions like h how do do we help businesses leverage these tools and know when to use these tools if they're not going to necessarily be hitting those conversion thresholds? Yeah, I think the data that you have that you're able to feed in the system is obviously going to be so key to your success with that tool. there it may be cases where search is going to be the place for you to really invest and start and um and build out with PMAX really like um any of the campaign types though I would say like as far down to the end conversion that you can get with enough data that is still a good signal for you to understand quality of you know thinking about lead right lead generation like what is how low can you go in that funnel where you still have enough data and it's still a um good signal of quality and then you know what from your CRM can you feed back in based on that signal to can you track qualified leads can you track those and and feed that back in. So, this is just a really good reminder for everyone. Please give Google the data it needs to help you and your business succeed. The more you withhold information, the harder time you'll have seeing success. Uh, i.e. your investing [Music] dollars. Share share the the offline conversions like actually let Google know when when it delivered success. There was there's a question that was asked tongue and cheek, but I think there's a there's a deeper question here. The actual question is when is Google planning to deprecate keyword targeting Google ads. I don't think you're going to say that Google is planning to deprecate keywords in in in in ads. But there is something to be said for the way we target and think as marketers has historically been very search term focused of targeting uh what people are saying when they're searching for products and services that that we look for as opposed to what are the driving needs that influence that. So, how would you advise the marketer going into 2025 and beyond to think about targeting and how much should keywords be the the spearhead? How much should keywords be a supporting role? How would you advise marketers to think about that? There are no plans to deprecate uh keywords. I get the question. Um, it's been a question for what, like a decade. I think I got asked at SMX literally a decade ago about this. That's not to dismiss the question at all. Um I think you know one of the things early on keyword was it was single query single keyword matching and with automation advancements AI advancements we're now able to infer a lot more about what that the query intent is. I'll just give one example like AI based keyword prioritization. Uh we shared a lot about that last year. It applies to both phrase match and broad match when you have multiple keywords that could match to a query. So what it does is it um it uses our advancements in natural language processing understandings and in part to have a better understanding of the user's query and the ad and what the relevancy is. And then it can say okay this is the most relevant keyword and add combination to match this user's query and we're going to put choose this most relevant combination for the auction. So I think on the back end there's a lot of advancement happening on the front end from what how marketers should think about their keywords. I think there's certainly a tendency to get still very specific and I understand that but I think again kind of goes back to giving the system the flexibility it needs and um understanding things like natural language processing understanding and how those systems are being used to better serve those relevant ads to your users. thinking about theming, your keyword theming and creating your ads around those keyword themes, resonating with users from that kind of little bit broader perspective, and giving again giving the system more freedom, giving understanding that uh the way users are searching is constantly evolving. Um we've we're seeing longer queries, we're seeing visual queries, we're seeing multimodal queries. So like you mentioned uh we'll be talking uh uh flip flip flip the script, you'll be asking me the questions uh on structure. Um my question for you, someone has an older account uh where they have had all that historical performance uh they can make gradual changes versus someone today starting a net new account. Would you give the same advice of go broad or g give AI the room to both? Would you would it be slightly changed for the older account? Would it be leaning into more visual content for the newer account? Um would love your take on older versus newer account choices and recommendations. Older accounts, especially if things are going well. Um is there room to do better? and starting small. What are what's the lowhanging fruit for thinking about uh consolidating your account structure, simplifying your account structure and consolidating data, right? And again, it goes back to the whole the whole idea is serving the most relevant ad and landing page combination um ad combination to your users. And so that is like the north star. uh to convert um or drive whatever outcome you're you're looking for. Um so I think there's probably lots of room in old accounts uh to evolve. I think again start small and then in new accounts like your world like lean in. There's there's a really I forget who originally told it to me. I know uh it it was it was picked up from someone else, but that there's the um the burden of knowledge that we have biases that we've picked up from being used to running things a certain way. And I think one of the reasons marketers struggle as much in this world is that it is truly a new world and the things that will serve us well now are not what served us well 1015 years ago. Um, on that note, video, um, it has been mind-boggling to me that it's more than a decade of video being the new frontier because people are still struggling to get on video. Um, and I know Performance Max does enable it quite a bit. Um, but there's no denying that when you do targeted video, um, or targeted display, they'll have a higher chance of performing well than just having it lumped into Performance Max because you actually created the creative for it, like you you you did that that targeted um, campaign. How would you advise marketers today, especially if they're feeling like search is not giving them the full return and they're looking for new ways to expand or they're looking for ways to to do better to to get into video or to get into uh demand genen or what would your advice be? Video genen or video gen uh video or demand genen? So I think yeah you um video has huge potential. I also would say that video is also very complimentary to search. Yes, there's all kinds of ways to take advantage of video. That's long form, short form. So, demand genen, I think, is you've got all kinds of opportunities and you can um you could say I just want to serve shorts. I want to serve in feed. I want to serve YouTube um across the board. I want to serve on um in display. So, I think there's a lot of flexibility there. And then the other thing I would point out in terms of um the creative tools and where AI is helping maximize um visibility and uh reach is um things like video enhancements and I know that that's the kind of tool that makes people a little bit apprehensive again. So um video enhancements is it's pretty cool. It will take your existing videos um and either transfer if you've got horizontal oriented video. It can transfer it to um vertical to again reach the short surfaces and mobile surfaces. Um and uh it will also automatically shorten your longer videos. I think it's over 15 second videos. And it does that again using AI to isolate identify sort of the most resonant pieces of your video and then formats those to like frontload the most impactful piece within the first 5 seconds so you really catch the um users's attention. It can sound a little bit nerve-wracking, like I'm losing control, but it's one of those ways that AI is making like huge differences in your ability to reach across multiple services in multiple formats quickly, easily, and impactfully. And and I'll just throw out there, a lot of the enhancements that Google is doing on video are things that we would pay for a third party to do anyway. And so if you can save money by letting Google make those edits for us, it's not like you're giving Google Cart Blanch to make whole net new content. It's it's just fixing or reformatting the existing creative. Yeah. And can I just do one I just want to do a quick plug for that. If you're with all of these new things, like dig in, look at the help center, understand how they work and um how like what the reporting looks like and all of that. Um, so you can really get comfortable with everything that's new and coming online and understand how they work so that when you're talking to your stakeholders, your clients that you're feeling confident. I recognize again uh this wasn't an officially pre pre-checked question, but it it came up the health documentation. There have been a number of instances where the documentation didn't match the functionality and it turns into a whole bit of drama and then we fix it and then life is fine. What is the best way for marketers to stay informed on the current rules of engagement? And what is the best way for us to give feedback? Um, and what what should we bring when we're giving feedback on help center on help center or or anything, but documentation first just because I feel like that's one of those areas where trust was eroded because the documentation was a little bit odd and it it wasn't necessarily deserved for eroded trust. Yeah. I think um so taking off my Googler hat, I'll just say that um help center updates have all it's been a struggle. Yeah. Um that's I know there is there's a lot of work that goes into trying to be as comprehensive as possible. So um and when we get notified that things are not as they should be um there's fast action to um to make updates. And so I as far as surfacing those issues, I mean you certainly can come come to me um and the best way I mean you can message me or you can uh report to support that kind of thing. So I'll just share for context. One of the easiest ways to get things fixed is to bring a CI in the specific instances where the thing went arry so that Google has the chance to dig in and uncover what is happening. Uh I I will say Jenny has been a champion every single time because we were able to provide a specific CD, specific instances, time frame, all of that. And we were a we were able to figure out if it was a bug or if there was an issue or if it was just a misunderstanding. When you don't bring the CD, it's Yeah. I mean, and you can speak to this. It it it feels like it's asking you to respond to a wall of noise as opposed to here's a problem, please help us fix it. Yes. Yeah. So, I will say um and this goes for going to support as well. when um you see an issue or think there's an issue, the best way for us to troubleshoot that is by starting at the account level, sometimes the campaign level, whatever ID, as far down as the ID level that you can give us. And the other thing I would say is um start with support. I try to help as much as I can, but I'm not I'm not actually in support. I don't have like a whole lot of resources and bandwidth. So, start with support. Um, and if you're still having issues, then hopefully I can help. And it is worth noting that Google is effectively a software provider. Um, and we should treat Google like a software provider going through support, filing tickets, so on so forth. Um, and when those things aren't addressed, then yeah, we we can bubble it up. that going through those dedicated channels does make it easier to actually solve the problem. Moving on to your outlook into 2025. Um we are currently as as as we we previously discussed uh in a sea of change. There's a whirlwind of change. There's a whole bunch of change. Um and it can feel really difficult to ground oneself. If you had to give everyone one go do um what would that one go do be um generically and then if you want to give a go do for e-commerce and and a go do for lead genen uh that that would be awesome. That's a really great question. I would highly recommend checking out the letter to the industry that we published last week and also teases that GML is happening on May 21st. that gives a really great overview of kind of where we've been and where teams are focused um in this coming year to um take advantage of um all the advancements in in AI and then really looking at um at at your account and thinking like is it best equipped to reach the audiences and resonate with the audiences that our business wants to reach. Am I are we giving um the uh the inputs that Google needs to really understand what's important to our business? I will also say like the fundamentals still ex and I keep saying this but the fundamentals are still so important and that means your measurement like do you have your measurement foundation set up? Is your tagging set up? Are you using enhanced conversions? Um are you using customer match? And so those pillars I would really make sure that you're buttoned up on the on the measurement side as well. So what would your go-to be for lead genen and what would your go-to be for e-commerce? Okay. Um lead genen I would say that again I think this is where your measurement um foundation is so important feeding that CRM data back in and really giving Google the understanding of what a good lead is for your business. And the other thing I'll say is that um when you are sending those qualified leads back in and using those um specific lead genen focused value based rules uh well know the conversion actions. Yes, conversion those also kick in lead quality tools on our back end as well. I think also there's new reporting for for lead genen like the leadfunnel reporting again when you're pulling in those qualified leads um goals back into Google that are really um helpful. I don't think enough people realize how important the conversion action piece actually is. Can we spend a little bit of time talking about why choosing the right conversion action within the Google system is so important? Yeah. So um like for it it helps the system literally optimize for what's important to you. That's what you're saying. And so um and like and with lead genen um like I mentioned it also helps bring in the tools and technologies that we have to help um ensure quality leads as well. Um, and then for ecom, same thing. It's saying, you know, what is the conversion that matters to you? One thing I'll I'll throw out there, um, and this is a shameless plug for Optimizer, we have tools that let you not only score your segments, but then also have that data uh upload protection layer so that you can flow in all those different pieces to then give Google uh that additional information or you can put that in directly within Google's uh data center. Uh there is no reason not to share that information. Um you can just decide how how you want to do. So, do you have a a go do on e-commerce or did you have something you want to say off of? Um, oh, I the only you just you just reminded me of data manager, Google ads data manager and so um that is specifically designed to help make it easier to bring your own first party data in and plug in um those connections and feed that data into your campaigns. And I'll I'll shamelessly plug on the Google side, I don't think enough people use the exclusion tool so that when you're configuring your conversion actions, and this might seem super in the weeds, but if you're in the process of doing that that whole that holistic audit, you really want to make sure that that uh exclusion information is used if you need to course correct for Google. Because if you're say taking over an ad account and someone had a whole other scheme of how they're doing conversions and how they're running the account and you're taking it over and changing that, you just want to make sure that you're you're letting Google know that that things are shifting. E-commerce. E-commerce. What's your go do on e-commerce? I think this is another opportunity to talk about like quick things you can do with AI. So I would point to um product studio. Y and being able to um edit your product images. And the other like thing you can do there is export those images that you alter for use in other media. Um I think also um outside of your feed creative tools for editing your um image assets. This this can apply to lead genen as well. But I think um for e-commerce folks to think also beyond just their product feed. Um, and you can use um image editing to add, remove, alter uh your image assets. You can tailor them for seasonal campaigns, for example, and just add a a new level of resonance for consumers during a particular season or promotion, things like that. Uh, I mean there's certainly a whole lot to do on other optimization levers there, but I think kind of taking a fresh look at your creative um is a great opportunity for ecom. I don't know if this is a reasonable question. Um, how should advertisers think about image quality score? Um, whether that's in video or images in shopping feeds. I know there's there's not really a conventional quality score. Um, but it feels like there's a backend quality score and I'd love your perspective on how we can we can think about that. Um, I think you can think about it as are your images serving. That is that is fair. And are they serving? And the only other thing I will caveat with uh serving is um I'm just thinking about like the performance rating in responsive search ads. And I just want to quickly note that you may see assets that have a high performance rating, a good performance rating, but they have low impressions or no impressions, right? like and that's typically because they are resonating with a subset of user like a smaller set of users. Um it's certainly but it's also indicating that this is a valuable asset. There just aren't a whole lot of um users searching that fit this profile that this is resonating with. Just because your asset, whether that's text asset or image asset, isn't serving a lot doesn't mean it's not having a great impact with certain segments. We're now going to go into a bit of a rapid fire round. Um, and then we'll we'll we'll finish up. Uh, what's the question you get the most that makes you face pal? Oh, no. I can't share that. Fair enough. What's the question you get the most that makes you elated because it's an intelligent question or like the comment and theme that Oh, that's such a good question. Um, I there are I can't point to one. There are a lot or groupings like what are maybe top three groupings. Okay. Well, I guess I'll say questions that are forwardlooking if that makes sense. like questions that are aimed at how do I evolve and adapt to what um how what user behavior is doing, what how systems are evolving. Those are exciting and at the same time I fully empathize with questions about why is this changing? Mhm. Why can't um we go back to the way things were? I um have all the empathy in the world for those kinds of questions. And I'll just kind of go back to why I took this role in the first place. So I joined in 2021. Um and the my two kind of mission pillars, not unique to me, but were um thinking about helping marketers adapt and understand this new world that we called automation at that time. Um and also understanding the impacts of privacy and regulation changes and and how to adapt and also at the same time bring in to our teams internally like this is not resonating, this is not working, this is you know this is the feedback how can we um gain trust and gain adoption. Yes. I mean ultimately yes I my my like rais on detra is to help build trust. I mean that there's a whole lot that goes into that obviously and certainly not going to be a one-man one person show. I don't know you do a lot to be the the one woman behind the trust of Google. I I think we all rally behind you and and how much you are a voice for a lot of our concerns but also how you much you listen. Yeah. And I will say I um I I do really really want people to know that when I am talking to individuals and teams internally like the response is positive. It is never we don't want to hear that. Um it it may be like there's certain explanations for things obviously um but I wouldn't still be here if I didn't see like real customer response and love. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So a final question. If you could give the an upcoming generation of marketers one piece of advice, um what would that advice be? And how is it different than the advice that you were given when when you were starting? I'll be honest still be the same. That is useful for everybody to know that the core is still the same. We're all still useful. We're all still valid. So what's that advice? Be curious. and know your business and know your market. The tools are tools. They are not a strategy and staying curious, being willing to evolve and learn and grow and have fun and meet the challenges. Jenny, this was such an honor to not only hear your amazing perspective and to learn from you, but but to to sit down and have a genuine honest conversation about the state of Google, your thoughts on Google, and for folks to hear how much you believe in the path that Google is taking uh and that you're elevating the the questions when when needed, but then also amplifying the triumphs u where they occur. If folks want to get a hold of you or to follow you, um we all know uh Twitter ex liazison is the official title. Um where are the all the places where folks can find you? Um yes, I am at leazison on Twitter uh x and on um on blue sky and threads. Blue sky. I have a um fledgling presence there. So please um engage with me on those channels. And then I'm Jenny Marvin on LinkedIn and um you can reach me across all those channels. Thank you everyone so much for investing the time. Uh hopefully you found this helpful. If you'd like us to do more of this sort of content, please let us know. And everyone definitely send a lot of love and thank you to the amazing Jenny for investing the time with us. Thank you. Thanks to the amazing marketers because that's what makes the world go around in our world.