yeah other people may not think you're nice but I do and you're like huh like in that way they almost mirror their affinity for victimhood to give you victimized compliments hey no one else like you but I do you're a victim but I'm still good with you that might say things like everyone else is against you but I'm not today we're going to be taking on the topic of covert narcissism but before we get there I ask you always please hit that subscribe button and join this wonderful Community Learning about narcissism and also hit that Bell and you'll get notifications each time we put out new content so let's talk about what everybody wants to know more about covert narcissism the concept of covert narcissism and it's also been termed vulnerable narcissism is a more recent evolution in our understanding of the topic of narcissism and narcissistic personality in general now in a word if we're going to break it down because that word covert is tricky because we often think it means hidden these are the victimized vulnerable anxious socially less skilled Sullen and resentful narcissists the concept of vulnerable or covert narcissism has arisen in about the last 20 to 25 years as researchers pointed out that our traditional sort of I don't know sort of dsme conception of narcissism is focused solely on the traditional grandiose narcissist which we've already talked about that sort of shiny charismatic confident Charming witty attractive textbook narcissist but what these researchers did a beautiful job of pointing out and these include really Heavy Hitters in the field roning Stam and Campbell Miller and Pincus they all noted that this misses the boat on a big part of the clinical picture of the narcissist it misses the group of narcissists that lack that same level of social skill and finesse who lack the Charisma who lack the charm and in fact they often present as somewhat depressed victimized or even needy they also deploy they also display other negative mood states such as irritability hostility anxiety and even sadness however they are narcissistic so they have the same themes as their classical and grandiose buddies they are still grandiose they are still arrogant entitled validation seeking but it looks and it feels different when you're in their presence for example the grandiosity comes out in a more back door manner they'd say something like you know what I would have been the best in the business if I had just had a trust fund like him or I just had someone giving me money for my business or they say things like I'm so smart that it's a total waste of my effort to even show up at an hourly job it's beneath me I'm too good for that kind of simpleton work their entitlement also has a very victimized feel so they may say things like oh I shouldn't have to take the time to take this ridiculous programming class given that the professor doesn't know what he's talking about and I can program circles around him honestly I should really just get credit for the class because I'm a top flight programmer okay they say that now their arrogance comes out as an antagonistic listing of all of the gifts they have that they believed were never recognized and they will often in a very contemptuous manner dismiss the opinions and the knowledge of other people their validation seeking consists of a lot of sort of gloomy sharing what they believe their unseen gifts and skills and contributions are and in fact they are often the toxic person who sits around and says that they know better than any of the experts on any number of issues or what constantly criticize people who attempt something try something take a chance or who are aspiring to do something with their lives it's interesting because the covert narcissists themselves will never take those risks but they will mock people who do now apparently covert narcissists never got the memo that opportunity comes to those who seek it and rather that just sort of grumpily sit at home wondering why their ship never came in these are the folks who sit at home and wait for opportunity to magically show up at their door and knock knock and in that way they can feel quite angry resentful and Sullen when they watch other people succeed in a way that they aren't succeeding and they will often dismiss the hard work and the efforts of other people who have really put in the time the effort and the energy in fact they will often attribute other people's success to that other person's just good luck not their ability and they will attribute their own lack of success to bad luck in the fact that the world is out to get them now they are not ever going to be able to notice though that other people are putting effort into something they don't even entertain that hypothesis now simply put covert narcissists are chronic malcontents they are never satisfied or content with anything and that dissatisfaction comes out as criticism complaining contempt anger dismissiveness frustration all kinds of negative kinds of mood States and displays they will complain about everything and that makes life a miserable experience for anyone who has to spend time with them and then when you throw on top of that their tendency to chronically view themselves as victims it is feels darker and heavier and more morose than many of the other forms of narcissism now another pattern that is commonly observed in covert narcissists is their passive aggressiveness now while they're grandiose and malignant narcissistic buddies are more likely to kind of just tell you off to your face to tell you you're stupid to your face or tell you that they that you don't know anything the covert narcissists are more likely to do this in a sullen back doorway they'll say things like Ugh must be nice to have a family that just always bails you out must be nice to get overpaid for your job must be nice that you have such a big house you get the idea on and on and on and it's also quite manipulative now there is a tremendous hypersensitivity observed and covert narcissism in fact this hypersensitivity to any kind of feedback this is one of the patterns that will emerge in a relationship with a covert narcissist early on they will often be lashing out at the world and always saying how unfair the world is but one fine day when you decide that you are done with watching them sitting there acting like a victim all the time and you just say you know what just do something instead of complaining just do something they will typically react with absolute rage they are very vulnerable in the face of any kind of feedback constructive criticism anything like that and their hypersensitivity in the face of that can look almost like paranoia they truly believe that everyone is out to get them and they live their lives in line with that assumption they really walk around saying the world is against me now covert narcissists are prone to Chronic argumentativeness especially around issues that may be polarizing and inflammatory for example they are the ones who constantly want to go at it around politics religion or current controversial news issues of any kind and it's interesting because they will often vacillate back and forth at times they will be very self-righteous in their debates you know they'll say you know you're an awful person I can't believe you'd say such mean things how can you be such a hater but then they are not at all able to see the irony at when they start escalating and becoming more and more in unkind in their argument with you and hit you with contempt and verbal abuse and even insults they don't see that but as a rule covert narcissists are very judgmental and that judgmental quality often arises from the place of their own entitlement and their chronic feeling that they never got a fair shake from life and that they are owed more from the world that sort of fuels this toxic energy in them about with judgment about issues in other people's lives all kinds of issues and these can include anything you could imagine including once again their politics other people's opinions lifestyle factors or their diet their exercise their weight their appearance the products they purchase the things they wear the jobs they hold what other people's children do honestly absolutely is nothing off limits with their judgment their judgmental nature is actually what often fuels their argumentativeness and all of this is a manifestation of their Sullen arrogance their insecurity their chronic dissatisfaction their entitlement and their quiet rage that just floats under the surface now these relationships are particularly abusive because they can become quite isolating and isolated now covert narcissists as a rule are not particularly warm and gregarious and welcoming and outgoing they are not naturally extroverted they are not naturally drawn to groups of people and they will not be on board with your desire to spend time with groups with friends with family to go to parties or to attend social Gatherings and what they do though is they will often speak really contemptuously of these social experiences you may want and even use your interest in those activities or those get-togethers as a way as a manipulation to attempt to attempt to induce guilt from you and also to insult you so they might say things like um why do you always want to spend time with other people aren't you interested aren't you sorry aren't you interested in our relationship why don't you just want to spend time with me oh I get it I guess you need lots of attention you get off on the attention from other people I guess you just need that to feel better about yourself that kind of conversation that kind of interchange with someone leaves you feeling uncomfortable devalued and even just having any experience in your life the experience of going to a party or a gathering or an event it gets diminished before you even get out the door and God forbid you actually get them to agree to go to a social event with you you can plan on them sitting solid in the corner making insulting and contemptuous comments about the people that are at the Gathering or the things that they are enjoying or the things they're talking about and they will spend their evening just like a little poison creature in the corner tossing passive aggressive barbs out about what is happening and looking so uncomfortable that you succumb to leaving the event early just to get them out of there because it's making you even more miserable looking at their misery now this process can happen slowly and quietly Without You realizing it and then one day you lift your head and realize you no longer really have a social world you participate in just a small and angry world that you occupy with the covert narcissist so that really begs the question why would anyone be drawn to them let's face it these are not the shiny narcissists who draws in with their charm and Charisma and confidence and all the rest of it in fact here you may be drawn in just because you kind of feel sorry for them you feel bad for them they may talk about themselves and portray themselves as a person for whom life never quite worked out the way they wanted or they may present themselves as being very sad or anxious people are often drawn to covert narcissists because they may want to rescue them you may for example tell them that oh God no you shouldn't feel that way I see all this potential in you and it's such a shame that the other people in your life don't see it like you really might say those things to them because you kind of feel bad for them you may even put yourself in a precarious position lending them money because they portray themselves as a victim that nobody ever gave a break to and so you can feel like you can sweep in there and be that rescuer for them it's a very big part of the manipulation of the covert narcissistic pattern how they sort of evoke that and it can also feel very empowering for you to think that you can rescue them and for a moment while they may drink up your validation and you might say oh look I rescued them it's Pygmalion look at me soon enough they will find examples once again of how the world let them down and once again return to their victim identity covert narcissists are very contemptuous of close relationships and of the idea that they would ever need anyone so you will often sort of feel this sense of dismissiveness from them and when you don't do enough for them they once again Retreat to the role of being a victim and then once again you become one more person on a long list of people who has let them down and complicating all of this is that most people who are in a relationship with somebody who's a covert or vulnerable narcissist often at will not initially view them or even for a long time view them through the lens of narcissism instead they're more likely to focus on the negative mood symptoms you know they'll assume like ah no no it's not narcissism they're just depressed and they show their depression by being irritable no no they just have really low self-esteem empaths in particular can be quite vulnerable to covert narcissists because it plays into the idea of rescuing someone who seems as though they have been let down by life and the empath who often has a very kind unwillingness to walk away from someone who seems sad will often stick around and just start throwing bad money after good while they keep trying to rescue a covert narcissist now covert narcissists may also share Tales of sadness neglect and even trauma that go back to childhood they may have families of origin characterized by psychological abuse unfeeling parents experiences with significant abandonment and Trauma they interestingly may share this information very early very early in the relationship and that can result for anyone in this kind of relationship with them in a sense of cognitive dissonance between feeling a real empathy for their history and for their pain and then over time a real sense of exhaustion from having to manage their ongoing Sullen anger and a real sense of pain that you're enduring from their ongoing verbal and psychological abuse ultimately you may find yourself making justifications and rationalizations for their bad behavior so that you don't have to deal with the guilt of letting them go so slowly you convince yourself that it's the right thing to do to stay or maybe it's not that bad or at least he's not cheating on me if you've been in a relationship with a covert narcissist you already know the drill so Gang This is just part one of this series and I hope it's setting the tone for what the covert narcissist is about it's really almost manipulation through victimhood and many of you watching this are already probably saying aha I know those patterns and some of you I hope this has been a wake up to I had no idea is that what this is now obviously this can happen in a variety of settings but in a family relationship having a covert narcissistic parent or other family member sibling on Uncle grandparent anything can be very challenging and as a child this can be experienced as having a parent who is never happy and is always angry and is always complaining about how life is not fair it is exhausting and it is demoralizing to grow up that way and as you transition into adulthood their ongoing tirades about forever being a victim can actually build up inside you and sort of result in chronic feelings of guilt that will color this relationship with that family member or parent any covert narcissist in any family system is simply exhausting the relationship is a constant back and forth between guilt exhaustion and fear of their anger as well as helplessness that you can't fix everything another key Hallmark of the covert narcissistic parent is that they will compete with you in a cruel and passive aggressive manner so instead of being proud of you which is never going to happen with a covert narcissistic parent or even the way a grandiose narcissist will they'll view you as sort of an extension of themselves and view you as a source of Supply the way a grandiose narcissist will because you make them look good if you do something and you do something well that's not how it is with the covert narcissistic parent the covert narcissistic parent most likely will become somewhat jealous they may actually undercut and undermine your accomplishments and they might even say things like oh well if I had been supported Like You Not only would I have won that award my goodness I would have excelled at everything or of course you're doing well in school it's because you aren't growing up in the absolutely awful way I had to grow up I would have gone on to do great things if it hadn't been for how awful my childhood was and in that way anything that you achieved as a child gets invalidated and besmirched because they turn it into one more polemic about their victimhood and their suffering they may also become really Sullen and really Petty and resentful when you get recognized or complimented by other people it could be as simple as a passing compliment by a teacher or a friend or a family member or it could be at a much larger level maybe a big award you got at a big ceremony you may even be the honoree for something and then after the lights go off and the ceremony is done then you have to endure your parent berating you the entire car ride home or they will project their pathology onto you oh you really do need a lot of attention don't you I guess you think that now you're all that now that you won that prize Well I can still see that you're still you you better not get too uppity you better remember you're still a part of this family you better not think you get away with doing less around here just know I see you and like I get the award but whatever you're still you and it's horrifying it's horrifying because this is a child or this is a teenager and all that child wants is their parents Pride I have known people who have excelled in all sorts of Pursuits and over time they even dreaded winning or excelling because they knew they would have to endure the wrath of their envious small-minded covert narcissistic parent and over time these gifted children and adolescents may even sabotage themselves or downplay an accomplishment instead of listening to their parents victimized rant but what makes it even more difficult is that a child and even an adolescent they don't understand covert narcissism and it is so confusing and honestly scary to succeed and have it trigger this big competitive resentful reaction this confusion can dog you into adulthood and leave you feeling almost I don't know ambivalent about your accomplishments and sharing and even feeling ambivalent about sharing them for much of your life and it may even sap your desire for wanting to reach for bigger things because that constant voice of your covert narcissistic parent will Echo for you and undermine what you think you can or even should reach for it is a horribly painful and limiting Legacy in the workplace they're not as likely to become the leaders because of their lack of political Savvy and all the Charisma and charm stuff means that they often do not escalate to leadership positions but they are very likely to be your stolen resentful brooding and bitter co-worker they are also often the sort of know-it-all co-worker who has all the answers who criticizes other people's work and contributions but who doesn't always do a very good job themselves they are definitely not good team players and will often be quite dismissive of any form of team building or cohesion you may even sort of try to win them over but by and large that often only results in them becoming a bit sort of prickly they may often complain about getting the same amount of work as everyone else and they sort of bring this General kind of dark cloud into the workplace but because of their victimized sort of sullen Petty underbelly they often do and often will threaten to and actually file Grievances and lawsuits when they perceive even an imperceptible hint of inequity and many times they will file these complaints even when they are working less than everybody else it's not unusual for them to try and work all the angles and figure out how to cast themselves as a victim and file the lawsuit and get the payout so they simply don't have to work and at some level they feel that they're sort of entitled to this kind of payout in this way this type of Personality pattern can be very expensive for workplaces their conduct can poison an entire workplace team and dismantle morale for many many people in a workplace you know it's when I'm maybe you've said this I know I have is that when you say you know I really do love working with most people here and have just that person and that person wasn't here usually covert narcissists this would work so well their resentment and hostility often gum up the work of workplaces and they gum up teams and they gum up staff morale they always feel that people are against them in the workplace and they're frequently paranoid that people are actively undermining in the workplace and believe you me most people aren't taking notice of them if anything they're just wishing they would call in sick now the origins of covert narcissism while similar to that observed in other forms of narcissism so for example the usual stuff the attachment issues we see in narcissism the potential early traumatic experiences the inconsistency in their early environment or even the chaos in covert narcissism there is often this Quest to be noticed by their parents or other significant adults and then the parents never actually noticed them these are the parents who are deeply distracted completely uninterested maybe even detached and they may also just be parents who are deeply unkind who will tend to do things like shame and insult their own child this can also set up covert narcissistic patterns in adulthood when a person experiences this in childhood the covert narcissists have a much worse self-concept than we observe in the other narcissistic types and they will often experience other psychological issues in their life such as depression and anxiety they they often did have very difficult negating and invalidating early lives and that fact frankly can really pull from for real empathy from other people and rightfully so but their unwillingness the covert narcissist's unwillingness to push beyond their history get therapy and then add that to the mix that they keep treating other people badly it's a very very complicated mix as therapists we often see that when covert narcissistic individuals come into therapy they're presenting issues often reflect patterns such as depression anxiety a general sense of dissatisfaction with life relationship problems and challenges in the workplace now they're negative moods often lead us to believe that they are experiencing a mood disorder or an anxiety disorder and so as a result in good faith we'll often approach them with tried and true treatments for depression and anxiety such as cognitive behavioral therapy and perhaps even a referral for medication now what we find is that indeed many vulnerable or covert narcissists are experiencing significant negative mood States and the negative moods like depression and anxiety are amenable to treatment and you might see a lift and an adjustment in the anxiety of the depression and then unfortunately the other stuff The Chronic disillusionment with life their chronic sense of victimization the belief that they are not getting the recognition that they deserve their ongoing irritability their General contempt they're almost sort of low-grade paranoia that doesn't go away and as a result it can sometimes take those of us who work in the mental health world even a few months to determine that this is in fact more of a covert narcissistic pattern and not just depression or anxiety but if this person covert narcissistic person is in your life you also may not get it for a very long while keep doubting yourself Gaslight yourself and believe perhaps that you're not being supportive enough maybe you're not a good enough cheerleader because no matter how much praise no matter how much encouragement or how much money or how much opportunity you give them their anger and their bitterness do not dissipate and before long you find that you are throwing Mad Money after good so I hope as we keep going through this series on Covert narcissism it's giving you a fuller picture especially in different settings like parents partners and workplaces stay tuned we're coming to the covert narcissistic part 3 punch line where I'm hoping you'll learn some skills and techniques to manage these personalities if they're in your life now clearly covert narcissism has a very different feel than the other forms of narcissism you're not going to see like I said before that usual charm Charisma confidence Trifecta their manipulation while it's very much present is not as direct as we see in grandiose and in malignant narcissism they tend to manipulate through their victimhood their passive aggressive words barbs and actions and by pulling on your sense of guilt yes they're definitely going to Gaslight and yes there's definitely going to be narcissistic rage their narcissistic rage is most often in response to a criticism or someone giving them feedback about how to actually do something rather than to complain about it so say listen instead of complaining about that why don't you do it then they are going to get very very rageful they also do not present as social do-gooders in the way you will see in communal narcissism the people who say look at all the good deeds I do now give me validation that's not their groove now their negative moods also differentiate them from the other forms of narcissism their vulnerability May confuse you as you may view their vulnerability as a space where you might be able to connect with them now unlike the other forms of narcissism in which their vulnerability isn't nearly as obvious you can see it a bit more clearly here but just when you go in there and you try to connect with them on the basis of that vulnerability the covert narcissists will bite back and they'll get really angry and contemptuous about the fact that you're sharing your vulnerabilities or even commenting on theirs now love bombing with the covert narcissist may not be as explosive as it is with the other you know forms of narcissism but it's definitely not that big blow up big big love mommy it tends to be quieter you see fewer grand gestures but in that quietness they may actually end up becoming very attuned to you in the beginning of the relationship and a lot of people mistake that in Attunement as intense empathy and connection they sort of really drill into you and it seems as though they're really seeing you it's like they're really in your face and interestingly many people have said they say yes to the first date because they kind of feel sorry for the covert narcissist because again they're not particularly socially skilled or have have that sort of glibness and Charisma and all of that so they say yes because it's nice to do that is how so socially awkward the covert narcissist can be in the early parts of the courtship process this is very different than that sort of swagger you see of the grandiose narcissist the courtship phase itself will look different again that sort of tell me everything about yourself kind of thing you might find yourself though also tending to be a little bit rescuey it's not so much about the big nights out you'll be like wow this is so cool it's also nice and simple but we listen to each other all the time you also may not feel the same sense of Menace that you would feel with a malignant narcissist but the rage for a covert narcissist is just under the surface and they will interestingly quite often appear to Harbor a lot of anger at other groups and you'll see it's not unusual in covert narcissism to see that they may hold inflammatory opinions on the basis of race gender religion sexual orientation nationality but mostly from a victimized standpoint so for example they may Express lots of anger about immigration affirmative action about people of color and feeling that these groups have stolen their opportunities again they feel like victims or they'll be angry about women who they feel aren't obedient and not taking traditional roles and it's not unusual for covert narcissists to really sort of take these really Antiquated archaic roles about what gender roles should look like you're like wow I mean it's sort of like holy holy like 1932 but yeah that's kind of where they are now a key difference between between covert narcissism and the other forms of narcissism comes down interestingly I believe to extroversion Delroy paulus is I believe at the University of British Columbia he put it best when he called the malignant narcissist the disagreeable extrovert and I think the same kind of thinking could be applied to the grandiose narcissist I suppose we could kind of call them the Charming disagreeable extrovert but when we think about the covert narcissists they are definitely not extroverts they actually tend to conform to more of an introverted style they are often put off or even anxious when they're in groups and they derive more comfort from Solitude or smaller groups and it's interesting because this can be very isolating in any kind of a relationship with them and it's for this reason that people who are in relationships with covert narcissists we'll definitely feel that sort of damaging impact of isolation of not connecting with other people and honestly not having witnesses to how toxic your relationship as well as the lack of support you might have and you might feel this in a covert narcissistic relationship more than people might in other kinds of narcissistic relationships and when a covert narcissist is very controlling this can be very very isolating because they may be monitoring your comings and your goings and questioning all aspects of your life while also not having any world outside of the relationship so it's suffocating and it actually isolating to the point of being dangerous and families that are run by a covert narcissist a mother or father It's Not Unusual for the family system to get very isolated this can actually be very problematic because it means that there are fewer witnesses to the covert narcissistic parents or person in the family's rage to their hypersensitivity and their irritability and the risk here is that it can really leave the family members feeling isolated confused helpless and definitely unseen now social anxiety is also a major part of covert narcissism and this is a reason that it almost can trick people initially because it doesn't have the extroverted charismatic top notes that we observe and traditionally grandiose patterns the insecurity we see in a covert narcissistic person is often about sort of social issues and social matters and how they're viewed by other people so they can be very socially clumsy and as a result obviously because they're so uncomfortable they may avoid social settings or just be more reticent or shy or avoidant or just hold back in those kinds of settings and that can definitely throw you off the trail initially in these relationships because this is not the person who's sort of holding cord is the raconteur in the middle of the party that's Charming everyone telling stories and everybody's paying attention to them they are the ones who look a little bit angry and brooding in the corner of the party and the social anxiety is a chronic fixture but it's manifested in any kind of relationship with a covert narcissist as a contemptuous disregard for other people so they'll write off social Gatherings and parties and events as just being a stupid waste of time full of stupid people so they're sort of having this defensive react reaction formation like who wants to be at that stupid party it is defensive because they're just not comfortable with them so it's just easier to criticize these parties now this is different than traditional social anxiety in people who are socially anxious just socially anxious but who are not covert narcissists what we see is that socially anxious people tend to avoid social situations or they endure social situations with tremendous discomfort but a person who is socially anxious will not dismiss those social situations contemptuously they may do their best to hide their discomfort and you might even look at them and see that they are nervous but they don't behave in a way that we would consider mean that's different than the covert narcissist who will be spouting all kinds of judgmental and mean-spirited comments about a situation a socially anxious person may at times feel very awkward and may catch their words or say very self-disparaging things like a socially anxious person will say oh my God that was such a dumb thing to say I'm so sorry and you you hurt for them because they feel feel so uncomfortable covert narcissists will not tend to do that instead they will disparage other people oh my God can you listen to this guy just yammering on he thinks he knows something and they're definitely not likely to apologize for any of their social transgressions now the covert narcissistic pattern can have a very toxic impact on you even from the beginning of the relationship it is not uplifting to be with a covert narcissist because their negative mood states are so prominent but over time The Chronic victimhood and the exhaustion of listening to their resentment and frustration and anger all of the time can leave you feeling very depleted if you do keep falling for their Tales of Woe and their stance as a victim you can wear yourself out and you can wear yourself out because you're constantly trying to reassure them and rescue them and tell them it's all going to be okay and this will end up wasting for you a lot of time a lot of money and a lot of emotional energy and you will have nothing to show for it because they're not going to change so just and despite how toxic this pattern is the relationship with the covert narcissist interestingly can be very difficult to step away from and the primary reason for that is often both pity and guilt for many of you you got into this relationship or you stay in this relationship because you felt bad for them you see their sadness or their anxiety and the fact that life according to them didn't go the way they wanted so you may even feel guilty you want and wanted to fix it for them and you may even see some of your hurts heartbreaks and disappointments in them you might think gosh you know if someone had just been nice to me it might have turned around for me too well maybe that was the case for you I could promise you no matter how many people are nice to them it's not going to turn around for them because they're so invested in their victim anger entitlement stance and as always the almighty threesome of Hope guilt and fear are at play here the hope this relationship will get better guilt for walking away from someone who is down and fear that you will end up alone if you walk away from this and at least well gosh this person really needs me to sort of prop them up so that might help you and you might feel useful here but the guilt gets very sticky the covert narcissist should you decide to try to leave them they may actually really cry when you decide to leave not the crocodile tears of the grandiose narcissists like really cry and they'll say quite sadly that they don't think that they will be able to find someone else the guilt then pulls you in the malignant and grandiose narcissus May really manipulate and be quite cruel at the breakup stage but the covert narcissist may not be able to manage the negative moods around this and the tears and they're very clear incapacity to cope may make it really difficult for you to sort of Steal up and leave the relationship no matter how unkind they have been to you in the past and trust me on this despite those tears they are definitely going to throw more than a few passive aggressive barbs your way and that may also reel you back into the relationship the same way they played upon your guilt during the relationship these manipulations really work with guilt even their compliments can be twisted and passive aggressive they might say something is twisted like hey even though your parents thought you were dumb I actually think you're smart or say something like yeah other people may not think you're nice but I do and you're like huh like in that way they almost mirror their affinity for victimhood to give you victimized compliments hey no one else like you but I do you're a victim but I'm still good with you that might say things like everyone else is against you but I'm not and it can set up this strange sort of traumatic Bond because you think they may be the only person who cares about you and that gets you and that can also further isolate you so it's like this Twist of insult plus complement and then these other ways that they're saying that no one else gets you but I do it is their victimhood pushing up against your desire to be kind to do the right thing or even a less than healthy drive that you may have to rescue other people that may keep you in these relationships and keep engaging and explaining long past it ever being healthy now when we look at covert narcissism in a family setting you may be so accustomed in your family to trying to fix things and everyone in that family has always been so accustomed to enabling the covert narcissist that it can be very difficult to shift this pattern in any meaningful way what's interesting is if you do stop engaging and stop trying to fix them they will actually become more Sullen and victimized as though you've given up on them and it can be An Almighty struggle to not give in and fall into your old patterns so given how difficult and toxic this is how the heck are you supposed to manage the covert narcissist without getting lost in a Vortex of guilt frankly the same way you manage all narcissists radical acceptance realistic expectations gray rock not engaging not explaining and not personalizing it is also important that you do not get pulled into the I I think personally rather dangerous space of letting their I mean psychologically dangerous space of letting their past difficult history their childhood history their family history be an excuse for their wretched current behavior the covert narcissist will initially pull out a heavier victim card if you start pulling away and in fact covert narcissists often really struggle with abandonment and will often become even more resentful if they sense that you're discarding them maintaining good solid boundaries and not personalizing their negativity is also an important survival strategy in these relationships as always being in therapy with a therapist who actually understands covert narcissism is absolutely essential because it will allow you to do the deeper dive on your own issues with guilt and with being a fixer that keeps you in this relationship and runs the risk of allowing this Dynamic to devolve honestly into a rather codependent Dynamic relationships with covert narcissists can often have a rather codependent feel now sadly just as with all narcissistic patterns this pattern of covert narcissism does not tend to improve significantly in therapy and it is a pattern though that significantly worsens under conditions of stress and disappointment so when you have a covert narcissistic individual and they're experiencing considerable stress or a major disappointment under those conditions the covert narcissist actually has their victimhood confirmed and that enrages them even further now obviously whether or not you can distance yourself from this relationship is a very individual process but either path leaving or staying I can promise you this is going to bring significant challenges now the pattern of covert narcissism can actually remember can actually resemble many other mental health issues including social anxiety depression post-traumatic stress and as a result it can be rather difficult to discern what am I dealing with here and it's going to take time to figure out it takes time for me as a therapist to figure out I've worked with many covert narcissistic clients over the years and it taken it's taken me months and by then though if it's a relationship a human relationship by the time you figured out what it is the guilt can make it really difficult to distance yourself as a result therapy education and support become critical tools for helping you make decisions if you find yourself in a relationship with a covert narcissist now let's just bring it down to Brass tax as I was talking about before that introversion extroversion distinction the covert narcissist if let's put it this way if the malignant narcissist is the disagreeable extrovert I think we can say pretty confidently the covert narcissist is the disagreeable introvert this pattern of covert narcissism is one that is actually raised so many questions on my YouTube channel and social media and so I do hope that this three-part episode on Covert narcissism has really really clarified what this is how it affects you why we get confused about it the manipulative power of guilt in these relationships it's a sticky one and it is especially if this is your parent this is something that has can probably be one of the main explanations for why guilt is such a powerful motivator for you you can understand now a person can go from having a covert narcissistic guilt-inducing parent right into a covert narcissistic adult relationship thanks again for tuning in I hope you're enjoying this content and I sure hope that this Video on Covert narcissism clarified this rather complex topic so please as always subscribe to this channel it gives me the opportunity to see that there's a community actually interested in this drop your suggestions down for other things you want to know about covert narcissism right here in the comment section we take these seriously these videos come from your contributions and your ideas as well and as always hit that Bell and you'll get those daily notifications every time we post a video bye-bye