Interview with Jamie Winship: Understanding and Applying True Identity

welcome welcome everybody to this week&#39;s episode uh we&#39;ve got another interview this week uh as always I feel like I say this every time I am so excited to talk to this uh this guest uh I have Jamie Winship with me uh this week he has Decades of experience bringing peaceful solutions to some of the world&#39;s highest conflict areas and after a distinguished career in law enforcement in the Metro DC area he earned an MA in English and developed a unique process called the identity method and this process of identity transformation is the key to resolving inner conflict and acquiring new levels of learning and creativity his unconventional efforts to bring about societal and racial reconciliation led him to places like Indonesia Jordan Iraq Palestine Israel and all the way back to the US uh if you look for him in other podcasts and on YouTube you&#39;ll find plenty of examples of crazy amazing stories that he is well known for uh so go do that depending on what we get into today and then he&#39;s worked with leaders in professional sports business education law enforcement government nonprofit other sectors he&#39;s also the author of a great book called living Fearless he and his wife Donna are co-founders of identity exchange which is a training and Consulting agency helps uh individuals and teams discover the new levels of creativity and resiliency within the framework of true identity so with that said Jamie welcome thanks thank you for having me W it&#39;s great to be with you it it is great to be with you and we&#39;ve known each other for now about a year and a half give or take uh almost two years I&#39;ve had experience with your your organization and getting to to know you and I know you pretty well but some of my listeners may know you uh some of them may not so I&#39;d love to start off with like hey uh what do leaders or what do the folks listening and the leaders listening need to know about you um I think that I&#39;m just an average person um that uh the things I struggle with the things i&#39; the success we&#39;ve seen is really common to humanity and so I hope I I really hope my goal is always that whoever I&#39;m talking to says I can do that I I could do that and I feel like if we&#39;re training or teaching anyone and they don&#39;t come away with like that seems pretty straightforward and something I can participate in I think we missed we missed the mark you know we&#39;re in a celebrity culture so um it&#39;s it&#39;s a battle all the time to to to stay away from that you know we have to have some famous person come in and do everything and just just all of us in in the truth of who we are is it&#39;s powerful that your identity is your gift to your world so that&#39;s all I all I want people to know about me is I&#39;m bringing my identity and this conversation with you and you&#39;re doing it I know also so um that&#39;s the most beautiful thing most powerful thing we on my end you cut out for a minute you may have said this but what what is what is your identity what&#39;s the short form version of it my identity is it&#39;s funny because uh we&#39;re we&#39;re working on a documentary right now on on the human trafficking industry and uh my identity is unti of knots and that was that&#39;s been a process but a long time ago when I was actually um doing the psychological testing for a government agency in the state department that&#39;s what they called me that they said you&#39;re an interesting person because you&#39;re like it&#39;s like you go into conflict but you hate conflict like you&#39;re trying to always resolve things and untangle things that was when I was 19 that they said that about me and all these years later I&#39;m 64 now it&#39;s like wow that is who I am I&#39;m an unti of knots and whenever that&#39;s the um identity I&#39;m operating in I I find that I&#39;m helpful and successful when I move outside of that identity not very successful so that&#39;s that&#39;s what I do I love that untie of knots and uh you know as you&#39;ll see Jamie has a very different you you know you have a different take on what identity is and I would love how how would you define identity and and getting into the idea of because I mean identity is a big word what do you how do you identify that&#39;s a that&#39;s a Hot Topic these days and the way you speak about it is very different than the culture is speaking about it and so uh how would you define what identity is and and what is it not yeah interesting um so identity is the truest thing about you it&#39;s identity is is rooted and grounded in love it&#39;s identity is is received in community um identity is who you&#39;ve always been and are becoming what the the identity is the most beautiful thing about a human being it&#39;s deeper than roles and gender and all of that stuff it&#39;s deeper than that it&#39;s it&#39;s something that you that you&#39;re that&#39;s you know knit together within you when you&#39;re in your mother&#39;s womb and you&#39;re born into understanding and become as kard said with God&#39;s help I&#39;m becoming who I am you already are that the the problem is the counterfeit to true identity which I&#39;ll say again is true identity is received in community so it&#39;s from outside of yourself it&#39;s something you&#39;ve received and you&#39;re discovering and moving into every culture is known this every culture&#39;s had naming ceremonies it&#39;s where the person begins to understand how who they are within the community and how valuable it&#39;s your inherent worth and value apart from production the counterfeit to that is radical individualism which is what radical individualism is self-generated it&#39;s subjective to circumstances and it produces almost immediate conflict internally and externally true identity brings Harmony and Reconciliation because I see myself as part of a whole like I&#39;m an unti of knots but an unti of knots by themselves is not super valuable unless there&#39;s other identities working together on the different uh uh on different challenges that we face in life so that&#39;s what that&#39;s what true identity is it&#39;s just the truest thing about you it&#39;s interesting we we&#39;re doing this documentary working on so it&#39;s fresh in my mind and we&#39;re interviewing law enforcement people with years of experience in the whole child crime human trafficking and when we and we found particular Federal local uh um law enforcement people and they&#39;re and they&#39;re deeply compassionate but they didn&#39;t begin compassionate they began we&#39;re going to lock everybody up and like that but they over the when they hit the wall of like wow this isn&#39;t working and there&#39;s got to be another way and they discover the depth of who they really are and the gift they&#39;re bringing to the world um they they all say it&#39;s something I&#39;ve always known about myself but couldn&#39;t articulate and so when we ask him like why did you go into law enforcement the the person we just interviewed he&#39;s a commander of a organized crime task force and his identity is defender of the innocent and he&#39;s in his 60s and I asked him when did you know you were a defender of the innocent and he said I&#39;ve kind of always known but never been able to articulate those words I&#39;ve always been living it and so your identity is always present it gets hammered by the word world that gets crushed by ego and all these things but it&#39;s still a little candle that&#39;s burning and all it needs is to be recognized and developed and it turns into this beautiful full gift to the world so yeah that&#39;s what it it&#39;s beautiful different from radical individualism which is what we&#39;re facing in the world and and I so leaders rewind that and listen to it again because this is a very different way of looking at at identity most of the time like I alluded to it&#39;s you know I identify as this um I live in the Philly area so I&#39;m an Eagles fan unfortunately this year um uh even last year uh but you know it&#39;s it&#39;s not the team I play on or root for okay I want you all to hear that it is not the job you do it is not you&#39;re not a father um that might be a that&#39;s a role you play and your identity has an uh an impact on that but it is deeper than that like Jamie like said I love grounded in love received in community and it&#39;s something you&#39;re becoming you&#39;ve always been that you&#39;re being drawn towards it uh so wi with that said um how does how does one I&#39;m just GNA go right into it I I wasn&#39;t sure how quickly I get to this convers this part of the conversation but how does one I know how I&#39;ve been we talked about this on previous episodes with my co-host who um she&#39;s not able to be here uh today unfortunately but it&#39;s taken me a long time to get to the point where I can say I am a builder of constructs and a teaching profit you helped me with that and yet there was a lot of work that went into that yes what practically could you say to leaders say oh wow I have not thought about identity the way I well I&#39;m just a I&#39;m a leader I&#39;m a CEO I&#39;m a salesperson whatever I need to shift that I realize there&#39;s something that needs to shift how do they do that how do they begin to do that yeah well you know and so just and you know this Chris because we you live this way and I do too it&#39;s like unless what we&#39;re talking about works on Monday morning morning when you&#39;re all by yourself and everything&#39;s basically going to hell in your life unless it holds true then it&#39;s just we&#39;re just talking about things that don&#39;t matter it has to work in reality the the things that we&#39;re the things that we&#39;re engaging it have to work in reality so every time you asked me a question I&#39;m thinking of real situations in real life not theoretical or hypothetical So currently right now you we work with people in the NFL and this is this time in the NFL when coaches are getting fired and it it this huge scramble and the anxiety and tension levels very high as you can imagine so when we&#39;re talking to coaches who have who have been in a position for a long time and they&#39;re well known and they lose that position um they if they think their identity comes from being an NFL coach I mean you&#39;re basically plunging into an abyss yeah if you if a player thinks his identity as an NFL player and you that career ends which it&#39;s going to you&#39;re lost but same for a salesperson or a police officer if you get your identity from what you do what you have and what people think about you you&#39;re going to be bouncing around in life in a ton of anxiety and fear and constant concern about am I making it am I doing it and the and so so for the easiest way to work through this process and we just you know I just did this in Witchita with 800 people at one time but is to just begin with like what am I afraid of like in life what produces fear and anxiety in me and then um as you&#39;re digging into that and you know we can talk more about that process but this is the question I always ask people what are names you believe about yourself that hurt you what are names that you believe about yourself that hurt you some some names are negative for sure you know you&#39;re not good enough you&#39;re not smart enough you&#39;re not fast enough they hurt you but also names like you&#39;re the most amazing person I&#39;ve ever met you&#39;re the best player those those the cursings and blessings of mankind destroy people because they&#39;re not an authentic identity right they&#39;re based on the view of other people the view of the marketplace the view of your production rate and as long as you&#39;re operating in that I mean you can see the conflict level in our own country um and it&#39;s because we&#39;re operating in identities that are not true and we know deep down they&#39;re not true but we don&#39;t know what to do about them so so you know the beginning of that process is just can you tell the truth about what you believe about yourself that hurts you because that&#39;s really what&#39;s dominating your decision making right so there&#39;s a one player coach got released and I texted him and I said hey remember your identity is and I texted him his identity because we did the process together a long time ago and I said it&#39;s not it&#39;s not you don&#39;t get your identity from your position in the NFL he wrote me back immediately and he said that&#39;s my piece that&#39;s my piece in this whole process is that I don&#39;t get my identity from the job how much Freedom do you have to be creative in your job if you don&#39;t get your identity from the job that&#39;s what leaders need to understand you if you want a team that is a high performing joyful which is the highest level of creativity in human is Joy it&#39;s the high it&#39;s Joy is the jet fuel of human creativity in the brain that that team needs to be operating in the truth of who each one of them are and the leader needs to be moving in that identity and and knowing how to bring those identities together because the false identities kill a team and mostly that&#39;s what we&#39;re working with our false identities self- protection self-promotion I I want to get to the self- protection self-promotion but um so going back to how do I learn what my identity is you&#39;d said hey what am I afraid of what creates the fear what are those names that I believe about s that hurt me they could be I&#39;m not good enough like mine has been um or I am or I&#39;m the best at this whatever that is could be both positive and negative where did they go after that what happens next yeah so so every human what that what every human needs and when we when you know when we&#39;re working in counterterrorism or anything like this it&#39;s so funny people think well if you&#39;re talking to you know someone like Hamas or Isis or something like that that they&#39;re different than the CEO of a you know Fortune 500 company they&#39;re not the Mot motivators are exactly the same the fears are exactly the same so by the way listeners that&#39;s true he&#39;s Jamie&#39;s had experience with that just so you know anyway J sorry we do work with those folks wait a minute yeah that&#39;s not a generalized statement that&#39;s just from actual work with those folks over in the Middle East is the same principle but because humans are humans and so once a a human look is looking for attachment and belonging that&#39;s what humans crave because we&#39;re communal and we don&#39;t live in isolation and when we do we die or we become destructive so so when you&#39;re and because you&#39;re a communal you learn things about yourself from parents in the world and you you learn you&#39;re not smart enough you get measured in school or something and you you know you fail and okay that&#39;s an identity that&#39;s what hurts us so once you know those you have to have a place to unload them to offload them because you learned them you took them on you agreed with them yeah you know once you tell you know I have granddaughters and they&#39;re they think they&#39;re beautiful and they think they&#39;re great singers and they think they&#39;re great actresses and they are until someone says they&#39;re not once someone mean or trying to help tells them you know you&#39;re not a very good singer every time they look in the mirror that identity is now present and that happens to as we grow up intentional or unintentional and you as long as you&#39;re agreeing with them they become true and you live them out so you have to have a place you didn&#39;t you weren&#39;t born with them so we have to have a place to offload them so you need some type of process in your life to get rid of the false we we call that true telling or confession or whatever a word is that&#39;s like that like separates you from the false view or the false identity and so you need a mental contemplative process and all Innovation is preceded by contemplation in every human being there&#39;s no you this isn&#39;t about religion it&#39;s about what&#39;s true contemplation precedes Innovation so in a contemplative creative imaginative mindset which is human&#39;s greatest gift you need a place to visually get rid of those false identities you have to give them to someone or somewhere and so you can give them to the universe or love or God or Christ but you have to be able to see them and it&#39;s amazing when you&#39;re with people and say c can you imagine that you&#39;re sitting with unconditional love or God um or wisdom and wisdom wants to take the burden from you of the false all the false all of it that you believe and and you can visualize giving it away in order that you can think in a new way you can&#39;t think in a new way believing the false believing the old the old will dominate because it&#39;s a protection measure and you know biologically and through Evolution and all we&#39;re we have systems that protect us but when but when we&#39;re not in danger they&#39;re still protecting and we don&#39;t know how to like shut them down so this process allows us to drop our fists we call it and to receive the truth about who we are so once you identify the false beliefs those things those names that hurt you you need somewhere a process to unload that and you know contemplation I I can already tell this is something that I&#39;m going to tell my listeners you need to listen to this more than once um because these these things I&#39;ve heard them several times so I already understand but at the same time s um uh what did you say uh not surrender um Innovation is preceded by contemplation always all without read the history of innovation in humanity contemplation precedes it otherwise you just make the same mistakes over and over again which is what we do yes it is it is so you know from there you offload that and then um is there another step where you&#39;re receiving or hearing what your identity is absolutely yeah so remember the false that you believe about yourself you receive right it is all about receiving and agreeing with what is said about you or what you think about yourself based on circumstance so it&#39;s about re everything&#39;s about receiving and and when you you know we like you said we can get to self- protection and self-promotion but that&#39;s when you shut down is when you&#39;re in self- protection this is the worst state you could be in is that you can&#39;t even contemplate and you can&#39;t innovate you can only imitate in a place of self- protection so once I&#39;ve once I&#39;ve offloaded I have this mental contemplative process of offloading the false like my big one is I&#39;m a disappointment I have to deal with this every single day and so I you know in a play in a quiet contemplative breathing like okay what do I believe about myself that I&#39;m a disappointment where did I learn that that&#39;s another part of the deeper part of the process who told me that I was a discipline where did you learn that you should see people when you ask them that question and they start because your brain remembers who said it that your brain holds on to that and you got to reroute that neural pathway but then once you&#39;ve got it out here and you give it away to love like take this from me I I I release this I don&#39;t want to walk in this anymore you give it to love or God or whatever and you you&#39;ve swept the house clean we call it getting empty once you&#39;re empty now you can receive now you&#39;re free to receive and so then you ask love or God or wisdom what do you say about me what does love the universe call me and have your Journal your note P ad ready and write down the thoughts that come through your mind and don&#39;t don&#39;t resist them like people have these amazing things come to their mind you&#39;re beautiful you&#39;re loved you&#39;re a poet you&#39;re a a defender of Innocence like one of the agents said yesterday a lover of the guilty and other agent said like don&#39;t say no to that which is our tendency but to to learn to receive from love learn to receive and that&#39;s then your mind changes then you then you have a shift in thinking and then you can walk out new processes in new ways so it&#39;s truth tell mind change form change you you know when we look at our society no one really tells the truth I mean it&#39;s not that everyone lies but we basically don&#39;t know the truth about ourselves or the other our neighbor for sure um and so you have to learn how to tell the truth yeah I believe I&#39;m a disappointment that is a huge move transer AAL move in a person when they can say that but don&#39;t leave it there no then who are you and then once you understand well I&#39;m a defender of Innocence then we would ask like these law enforcement people once you understood that how did it affect your job and it&#39;s dramatic how it affected their job and their mental health and their compassion level so that&#39;s it truth tell mind change and then form change so what does love call you yeah does love call you not enough does God call you not does God make not enough does love create not enough does when the you know does the universe develop trees and grass and that&#39;s not enough they&#39;re all perfect in their identity they&#39;re all be and they interconnect with all the others gorgeous beautiful it is and and and so man so many ways I could go with this so so by understanding listen it&#39;s important for you to understand your identity in the way that we&#39;re talking about it not just your role and and Jim&#39;s alluded to this already it&#39;s because there are only two World Views we operate from and when we operate from the false it leads to not enough versus when we&#39;re operating in our true self we are actually operating from abundance and that scarcity that fear that not enough that self- protection self-interest then can be overcome and put away it&#39;s not even like you conquer it it just goes goes away and it it&#39;s like it flows into the um uh you the mystery and uh accepting things as they are and like for my my journey which I know you know a little bit for sure about this Jamie but it&#39;s like man when I got to the point where I I could understand who I really was that not enough that&#39;s mine right I&#39;m not enough I&#39;m not I&#39;m not um I&#39;m not good enough right it it goes to um competency right so I&#39;m not good enough once I understood that&#39;s not true and what my true identity the parts of it are I&#39;m like okay now regardless of what happens to my business regardless of what happens to this offer regardless of what happens with whatever I know that I can operate with surrender and allowing those things to kind of come in and hold those things Loosely and that&#39;s where that conflict like you said comes in um so for leaders to understand their identity it it and their teams it really allows us to operate from that abundance what what can you talk about that for a minute because I know you talk for hours about it but like you know yeah I don&#39;t know what keep going with that well it&#39;s like you know you and you said it and it&#39;s really cool because you know listening to you I I do know you and I I&#39;ve watched The Journey that you&#39;ve been on and it&#39;s I have a lot of respect for how you&#39;re moving and operating yeah I really do and so again it&#39;s like we&#39;re not sitting here like Talking Heads we&#39;re like and it&#39;s a journey it&#39;s a struggle y because of what you said all right here&#39;s here&#39;s the struggle so we are born into a worldview as you&#39;re alluding to and um and a worldview is not what party you belong to or are you&#39;re a conservative or a Democrat or a or a Christian biblical or a Muslim quranic worldview those aren&#39;t worldviews that&#39;s what you&#39;re coming up because of your worldview you&#39;re coming up with these team names and these separations and all that so worldview is just the lens through which you see the world and you learn a worldview you&#39;re born into a worldview and you hear it 247 and there&#39;s only two World Views you can read economic theory you can read anthropology you can read religious um um stories of creation and you&#39;re going to find these two worldviews and it&#39;s the separation worldview and the connection worldview very simple the separation worldview just says look there&#39;s not enough for anybody and everybody so we got to separate into groups and you got to protect your own because there&#39;s just not enough now if anyone can&#39;t see that running our country whatever party you&#39;re in that you&#39;re blind or companies or like it&#39;s not like about we anyway so the separation worldview is built on scarcity I&#39;m not enough there&#39;s not enough time there&#39;s not enough money there&#39;s not enough jobs there&#39;s not enough anything which leads to certainty a search for certainty which leads to extremism which look at the extremism that&#39;s going on in our whatever side you&#39;re on to perfectionism to self- protection and self-promotion that&#39;s a whole worldview and 99% of the world operates in it all the time the world the other worldview that&#39;s out there that&#39;s harder it&#39;s is the interconnected um connection worldview which says there&#39;s not it&#39;s not scarcity in the world there&#39;s enough in the world for everyone there is enough there&#39;s not enough for three people to own it all that&#39;s that&#39;s a scarcity mindset a scarcity mindset is like I&#39;m GNA collect as much as I can take it out of circulation so people have to come to me to get it create separation it creates conflict like that in the enough worldview it&#39;s like there&#39;s enough there&#39;s enough for me and my neighbor there&#39;s enough because life is not certain it&#39;s a mystery everything&#39;s a mystery there is no certainty in this life other than you&#39;re going to die and even that&#39;s a mystery um so it&#39;s all mystery and so humans love mystery we we Grace is a mystery love is a mystery forgiveness is a huge mystery that we don&#39;t even attempt and but it&#39;s all these beautiful Mysteries and we love mystery we hate certainty we hate formula but it makes us feel safe so we&#39;ll get into these bored safe destructive lives because we&#39;re afraid to be in mystery which we truly love it&#39;s it&#39;s sad so when you&#39;re looking at those two worldviews you know it&#39;s not a matter of um which is better it&#39;s which one is true that&#39;s the question the scarcity worldview is not true how do we know look at look at all of creation reality no no no tree is out there saying I got to get more territory for myself no nothing&#39;s doing that except humans because humans are afraid because they think there&#39;s not enough so I&#39;m going to take I got to take what doesn&#39;t belong to me in order to protect my own and the you know the strongest wind kind of thing just finally I&#39;ll say about that you know when covid happened you talk about a mystery oh my gosh none of us knew what to do nobody knew what was really going on but boy did we go after certainty on it right these extremes right we went like we weren&#39;t certain we&#39;re certain um and so the certainty led to scarce terrible scarcity mentality to where like in my neighborhood when we found out that toilet paper was critical to our survival which it wasn&#39;t didn&#39;t even have anything to do with covid we what did humans do they killed themselves to get as much toilet paper to the if I said to my neighbors you know get out of my way I got to get toilet paper I I love you but I need the toilet paper more than you do it&#39;s just ridiculous because crisis doesn&#39;t make a person it reveals a person and what Co revealed was how fast we&#39;ll separate into camps and and insult one another families split up over the co it like it was unbelievable because we live and are trained in a separation scarcity worldview and we move to it immediately so if you&#39;re trying to build a team in a scarcity worldview which is what we&#39;re doing we&#39;re going to become more and more violent as the world is becoming more and more violent and but if you move into the connection worldview which you can only do in a true identity then it&#39;s like you know what there&#39;s enough and if Chris and I are are are are working together and Chris succeeds I&#39;m happy because in an interconnected real worldview when he succeeds I succeed and when he fails I fail and we think if I just kick these people in my city out we&#39;ll be fine you&#39;re you&#39;re all going to go down everyone&#39;s going to go down and everything in creation reality knows that except delusional humans who are all into self self yeah self- protection you know I I look around you know it is January 2024 as we&#39;re recording this man I feel like we&#39;re back in like I don&#39;t know what is it 2020 or 2016 like it just leadership here okay let me say this I I have come to believe firmly and and it&#39;s more and more deeply I&#39;m believing it more and more deeply business is a part of the Redemption plan of the world it plays a critical role therefore leaders play a very critical role and when I look around me there is a leadership vacuum and a big part of that right now is that scarcity separate worldview and script playing over and over and like look I&#39;m not going to blame it all on the digital uh divide and and social media certainly has exacerbated it because we&#39;re comparing ourselves and saying I&#39;m not enough or I don&#39;t have that I need that but how I mean okay so leaders I&#39;m trying to think like I what I really want to help leaders do is to understand what I just said that they play a very important part in making the world whole and in order for that to happen they&#39;ve got to get whole so with our conversation they need to understand their identity go through that process that we were talking about and then okay now they&#39;ve got to lead an organization in that what what in what I don&#39;t know if you have any stories or advice or input on how do leaders then like and I know we&#39;re in 10 minutes we talked about this process not enough we could go a lot deeper but let&#39;s assume they get there what do they do next how do they lead an organization and what advice or input would you have for leaders that are like okay I want to lead an organization from a a connected world view yeah so I&#39;ll give you examples and I you know I have to be a vague a slightly vague because in process but yes so we we um had a we do this thing called export and what it is is just a it&#39;s a thing we do in our community that um people can come in and we spend three days doing what you&#39;re talking about and what&#39;re we call it export because we&#39;re not keep we don&#39;t want to keep these things for ourselves we&#39;re exporting them it&#39;s our gift to the world and so we want this you know people to understand identity and worldview and how they&#39;re operating what they&#39;re afraid of and all that so we we so it&#39;s open we have certain dates and open and people come so on the on uh last year uh maybe maybe a little bit longer yeah anyway so two small groups came a total of probably 20 people one of the groups was composed of doctors that just knew each other and they came medical doctors and another group was uh was all from One professional sport just put that and so these and they don&#39;t know each other they they&#39;d come and they they&#39;re together for three days so we&#39;re and all&#39;re we don&#39;t care what their vocation is or you know if they&#39;re famous or not we don&#39;t care this is like human beings we all do these exercises together we&#39;re mixed together what are you afraid of we teach them how to truth tell mind change form change but as they&#39;re doing it they start to think okay if I understood who I really am and then I understand a connected world viiew what would happen in my vocation if I took that back to my hospital or team um that&#39;s the the Final Phase of what we do okay how does that how does that mind change bring form change because we&#39;re always trying to change the form of things and nobody&#39;s mind is changed that&#39;s that&#39;s how we do and we the way we do it is through power and control yep which creates constant conflict so anyway so so the doctors three doctors just three of them go out and in the following year they decide what how can we change Healthcare three guys three people how can we change Healthcare they so all Innovation is preceded by contemplation so they take days of contemplation these three doctors in my vocation in the truth of who I am in a connected worldview what would Health Care look like in my town in my city um for one year they worked on that and and and then I don&#39;t know four weeks ago three weeks ago one of them calls me goes hey we&#39;re having a we&#39;re having a dinner um we&#39;re we&#39;re inviting the medical profession to come to it and in our little area it&#39;s $40 a plate like wow okay it&#39;s Rich doctor so go to it 85 doctors are there 85 doctors are there and they stand up these three guys stand up and present a plan of preventative lowcost health care for our community that allows the doctors to make a living but all levels of society to come in and get well that&#39;s what they called it getting whole getting well and then they and they showed how they were doing it and I called doctors I work with in medical universities and in other states and told them about and they all connected that was three guys that went through this process the the professional athletes got together and spent the year doing what would it look like if we had one whole franchise that operated in a connected true identity worldview you instead of I get my identity from how much money I make for my salary for my signing bonus from wins what would it look like if the if the sport was just joyful game and they came up with a whole strategy too which they&#39;re hope they&#39;re going to try and enact next year but they&#39;re so excited about it so here finally on that that&#39;s what you can do in real life companies can change everything if they have a model of leadership that people can look to that is other Focus self- Ting unconditional love humans can&#39;t do what they&#39;ve never seen they don&#39;t see any leaders in business or politics that they can name that is other Focus self-emptying unconditional love that&#39;s the connected worldview but if we gave them models people will move to it pretty rapidly cuz it&#39;s so joyful and it&#39;s so whole and it&#39;s so resilient so in business so last thing on that so the we were having this discussion like how do we and I know you think about this all the time Chris how do we impact the business World well one of our guys who&#39;s in the business world one of our coaches he said the other day you know I&#39;ve been studying this question and the Romans said they wanted to know how to control a region or a city without leaving their military there and they because they want their military out in the field they don&#39;t want them you know running uh public affairs like the US did in going say that sounds contemporarily relative boy and it obviously doesn&#39;t work but we&#39;ll keep doing it because we don&#39;t have any innovation in that area but what the Romans decided was if they controlled Health Care education entertainment and Athletics they would run the whole place so he he just said that offand and I&#39;m like oh my gosh what about what about business and and the Roman said if we control Health Care education Athletics and entertainment all business will follow that all of it which is really brilliant so then we thought wow what a in our work in the around the country even last night had a fascinating conversation with a high level Congress person who who we&#39;ve been working with for a while um and talking about what&#39;s 2024 look like in terms of all this um we realized that the the the areas that have most responded to identity has been Health Care education I mean we&#39;re all over the educational system Athletics and entertainment right and so in those places how can we you know imagine if kids were watching entertainment that taught them wholeness and resiliency through understanding true identity and worldview imagine what they would be like imagine if if if whe when the doctors in our area are doing what they&#39;re putting people in community groups the people come to the doctor that I like part of your treatment is you have to meet in a group of six people they had people in there given testimonies we&#39;ve never been in a community ever in our life as soon as we got in the community we started losing weight that&#39;s what the doctors are prescribing get in a community group and they said you know what it cost nothing he said yeah so we&#39;re not we&#39;re not we&#39;re not helping people get well we&#39;re man managing people&#39;s pain that&#39;s what you know that&#39;s what a culture does go back to the business I mean so um uh the topics we&#39;re covering this season right you&#39;re you&#39;re in the second half of this season um you know this episode won&#39;t be released for a month and a half or so and we talk about authentic Community being essential for leadership and it&#39;s it it&#39;s so you know to bring this down you know to the ground level for leaders like look I and this is why I&#39;m so passionate about the the topics I I needed we needed this or I felt like this season needed to be focused on the leader instead of external processes it&#39;s like look the leader&#39;s in trouble we&#39;ve got you know the the first episode we defined the problem of our souls being sucked out of us by Distraction by um you know phone and technology and and I know my listeners are going be like you&#39;ve said this a million times Chris but I&#39;m gonna say it again because I&#39;m gonna say it to you John orberg said on a podcast another podcast recently that great the sense of flow um that another guy from Hungarian and I can&#39;t say his name um I can&#39;t pronounce his name um talked about the uned Mind tends towards chaos so um really all life is is managing our Consciousness in a way right and and th that mindset of not enough and those voices that you&#39;re talking about with identity goes to that very Foundation of managing our Consciousness and the story that&#39;s being told there at an unconscious level and so uh if we&#39;re not addressing that in a in a real way we&#39;re in trouble and he goes on to say never before in history this is probably the first time ever in human history that we have been able to Outsource the management of our Consciousness to things like technology and that is so detrimental to leaders which is why I&#39;m starting with this and this topic of identity is crucial to understanding your role in life one number two Your Role outside of business because your identity does not come from your role in your business and if it does you&#39;re in trouble um and number two when it is healthy and you&#39;ve got a whole life and it&#39;s uh I heard uh somebody say the other day that the things that count most are not what you get paid for in life right it&#39;s like H okay well um however we have an identity that gets played out in vocation in business and you have a role to play to make your community whole like those doctors are doing you can&#39;t do it from a false identity right and so I love what you said about model of leadership which is others Focus self-emptying unconditional love and so leaders um reach reach out to Jamie reach out to me um we we can point you in the right directions obviously you know get in touch with Jamie he&#39;s got coaches and processes that can help you with identity and you can&#39;t give away what you don&#39;t have and you also can&#39;t help but give away what you do have so if you have the false identity you&#39;re going to give that away which is uh Peter skazo said that in emotionally healthy leader and so um once that happens then you can go and say great well how can this transform my business and then the world others Focus self-emptying unconditional love but you got to start with that identity um let me ask because I had a few folks that I pulled about some questions um that I wanted to make sure I talked about um and so how what might cause people to if they get a sense of their identity and they understand that what have you seen um what triggers somebody to maybe lose their way or lose the grasp of identity does that happen once somebody understands it every every day I mean I have to deal with this every single day yeah be because this is back to the worldview that you live in so like you can take a you can take a minnow and raise it in a in a you know tank that&#39;s healthy and pure in the water is amazing and the fish learns who the Predators are and what the good food sources are and then you throw it in a toxic pond it&#39;s gonna die right so it&#39;s not because the fish doesn&#39;t know who it is or who everyone else is it&#39;s breathing something that it doesn&#39;t know it&#39;s breathing and it&#39;s poisoning it so one of the great struggles in identity is even even what you&#39;re talking about like social media right we can Outsource for the first time but it&#39;s because we we don&#39;t W to be in internal so we want to Outsource like we don&#39;t want to go in here it&#39;s not a safe place for us to be exactly right so so it&#39;s easy that you know we should social media all that can be the greatest and most amazing thing ever but when wounded people use things they use it to manage their own pain that&#39;s what they use it for or to Escape right but a healthy person will use it for creativity and Innovation and connectedness so so um so what what crushes like me you know like I I have you know a whole calendar of things I&#39;m going to do today most of them I feel incapable of doing but and and so if I sat here more than at you know my own brain going wow can I do this no you&#39;re going to be a disappointment in that that&#39;s what I&#39;ve heard my whole life growing up you&#39;re a disappointment you&#39;re it&#39;s very hard to reroute that neural pathway but I did but I have you know and it&#39;s constant discipline it&#39;s like it&#39;s like spiritual push-ups you do them every day and as soon as you stop you get weaker like that&#39;s a fact of the universe you have to stay in the discipline of these things everyone you know it takes work to be successful in things lots of work but the work can be joyful so what happens is like I&#39;ll wake up in the morning this is my process wake I did it this morning wake up immediately I get faced down on the floor this is just to help me recognize my position in the whole thing like you&#39;re know this you&#39;re just one of everybody else and and I do confession I do truth telling today I have these tasks and I&#39;m speaking to God and here&#39;s what I believe about myself going into these tasks I&#39;m not able to do it I&#39;m a disappointment this is what I believe I give that belief to God what do you say listen you know meditate contemplate on it and then and then okay then give me wisdom to be that be give me wisdom and strength to be who the reality of who I am the truth of who I am and everything that I do today it doesn&#39;t take me three minutes starting the process I&#39;m like oh my gosh because here comes the world the LIE we call it the Empire saying you&#39;re not enough you are not enough and here come the comparisons like here they are here they come you know look at that person look at this thing and and so if I&#39;m securing my identity those things don&#39;t affect me like yeah bless you great fantastic good job well done beautiful I don&#39;t like the way you did that but listen I you know you&#39;re a human you&#39;re wounded you&#39;re doing what you do I release you and forgiveness that kind of beauty and wholeness and resiliency and then you go through the day and at the end of the day I&#39;m grateful you know I&#39;m just grateful because really you only can work in the present tense so that&#39;s all you really have yes and I&#39;m grateful and then when I go to sleep and I wake up the next morning I&#39;m a disappointment again right and it&#39;s just that process it&#39;s just that beautiful process and it makes you grow and it makes you innovate and it makes you it it creates wholeness which creates resiliency in you and I&#39;m telling you you want to be on a team with people that do that yes that&#39;s what you want and you need show me a leader I taught this at a IV League school recently and when I I did worldview to and you know the crowd might would be not conservative at all but and and maybe atheistic doesn&#39;t matter that doesn&#39;t matter but what I was doing World Views they totally agreed at the end that yeah we agree we&#39;re living in a separation scarce no question about it and we&#39;re being taught leadership in a separation scarcity strategy which is producing greater and greater conflict in our country and world and so and then I said do you love that and they said no we hate it we didn&#39;t know there was an alternative here&#39;s the alternative connective worldview look out the window there it is in process look at that mountain there it is working connected worldview There It Is Everything can only exist in relationship to another you can&#39;t separate and live in this reality that we&#39;re in and they said okay that&#39;s beautiful who&#39;s a leader that lives like that that&#39;s what they asked me they couldn&#39;t think of a leader that they know that&#39;s not self-protecting and self-promoting working scarcity and it&#39;s all about beat the competition beat the competition beat the competition I said can&#39;t we win the competition couldn&#39;t we win the competition couldn&#39;t we win the Taliban instead of beating them we don&#39;t know how to do it all we know how to do is beat and fight and predatorial economics that&#39;s all we know but it doesn&#39;t work it creates world wars and so they said show us a leader and I said Martin Luther King Jr Nelson Mandela gandi and then I said but ask those guys who their model was and they&#39;ll say Jesus and I said so I don&#39;t care what you think about Jesus whether he&#39;s Divinity or not that&#39;s a world leader that&#39;s a leader that had a huge amount of impact with no Army and no political power he that demonstrates and this is the message and Martin Luther King Martin Luther King Jr could get white people to march with him right that&#39;s the be that&#39;s the incredible thing and even then he was willing to lay down his life but but what Jesus modeled in Martin Luther King saw in Mandela is forgiveness right and and just this incredible statement if you want to conquer the Roman Empire that&#39;s oppressing you you need to serve them and love them and and that will bring transformation to him and it did the Second Mile it worked and so the students were like yeah okay that&#39;s fair those are fair historical evidence of that and then one of them said does that mean that we have to lay down our life for our enemy and I said yes it does and then he said then I&#39;m out boom there it is there&#39;s the self- protection and self-promotion even when we see the beauty of the other it&#39;s still like in the end though I gotta watch out for number one and bam we&#39;re back at the same point yeah well okay so here&#39;s what I love about what you just said I I uh we didn&#39;t plan this so uh part of what I&#39;m sharing with people if you&#39;re going to fight the Empire right we&#39;ll use your language to fight the empire not only do you have to know identity but you have to have some practices that you practice it&#39;s not trying it&#39;s training it&#39;s practicing and what you said is every day you have these practices that go back to push the waters back to push the Empire back to remind you who you really are and to live in that state and and here&#39;s the answer to the question in a simple way how do people lose their identity lose their way they don&#39;t have those practices they say oh that&#39;s great and then they don&#39;t do anything with it they don&#39;t protect it and they don&#39;t live in that they don&#39;t practice that and that&#39;s why um you know a large part of why I&#39;m bringing these practices to leaders even though they&#39;re ancient practices and maybe more religious than um you know there&#39;s a lot of value we must have these practices we must slow down we must contemplate you know we&#39;ve got to surrender and understand our identity and all of that stuff or leadership doesn&#39;t work you continue to operate in the scarce mindset and we can&#39;t it&#39;s not going to work the world needs us too um needs us I I put that in quotes um but you know if we&#39;re going to be a part of the The Plan of Redemption as I&#39;m saying it then we&#39;ve got to get into that other uh other mindset okay we are out of time uh and so before we run out of time Jamie um I want to ask if in 30 or 60 seconds I I don&#39;t know would you be able to share your definition of leadership with us and then I want to give you a chance to how can people find you well our website identity exchange.com there all kinds of resources on there we just we it&#39;s it&#39;s out now but there&#39;s a free download on there called finding hope and depression which I just encourage people to check into it&#39;s really helpful um you know yeah my definition of leadership is um serve it really is serve I I love you know just going back to the example of Jesus for you know just as a historical example um when he says to the Samaritan woman who&#39;s very who&#39;s very separated you know the Jews and the Samaritans very separate very hostile towards one another very similar to the situation in the Middle East today and Jesus said and she identifies him as a Jew and a man and she&#39;s a Samaritan and a woman all the things that we&#39;re fighting about and she&#39;s not a good woman she&#39;s a bad woman and how dare you tell me and all this and Jesus says to her if you knew who I was and the gift I am sent to you by God your identity is your gift to the world as a leader as anyone your your identity my gift to my kid is not that I&#39;m a good dad it&#39;s that I know how to untie their knots that&#39;s all I&#39;ve ever done in their life and they know that and my gift to my wife is I untie her knots my wife is a Timeless lifegiver that&#39;s right Denny what she gives to me is timeless life that&#39;s what she does and we exchange our identities we share our identities and when I go to work on my team my gift to my team is I and tither not and then we share those identities and together you have a body a whole body and people are like how do I be a good dad and how do I be a good like get learn your identity and give it to the world where everywhere all day long leadership and Jesus says if you understood who I was my identity which you don&#39;t because you&#39;re calling me a Jew and a man and that&#39;s not an identity if you understood who I was you would ask me to get you a drink to serve you and I will ask me to serve you and I will that&#39;s astounding statement so as a leader I&#39;m I&#39;m here to untie your knots well I untie you&#39;re not you give your identity as a gift to the team and together we&#39;re going to innovate and create and resolve the problem of conflict in the areas where we&#39;ve been invited to work and that&#39;s what we do and and when I look at my team the way we start every team meeting is is anyone dealing with negative emotion like we have to make sure the team every day is in the truth of who they really are because that&#39;s their highest creative level then whatever we&#39;re going to face in the day we&#39;re going to create together and innovate but it begins with contemplation serve that&#39;s my serve you want to hear the best counterterrorism stories ever from operatives out there in the world they will tell you they fought for a while but then they learn to serve and that turns the tide every time well Jamie it&#39;s been an honor and a pleasure and honestly you I know without a shadow of a doubt you&#39;ve untied some knots for uh people in this conversation I know even with the what you just said about applying your identity to your your marriage and family unti or not for me right there so um I deeply appreciate you you already know that um and yet I hope some of the listeners that listen to this I know when they hear you go search them out go look it up on YouTube um there&#39;s plenty of content find him at his website identity exchange.com pick up his book living Fearless um you know get to know Jamie because as a leader what he has to say is essential so uh thank you Jamie I appreciate you man hey thanks for being an example Chris thank you oh yeah uh thank you I appreciate you

welcome welcome everybody to this week&amp;#39;s episode uh we&amp;#39;ve got another interview this week uh as always I feel like I say this every time I am so excited to talk to this uh this guest uh I have Jamie Winship with me uh this week he has Decades of experience bringing peaceful solutions to some of the world&amp;#39;s highest conflict areas and after a distinguished career in law enforcement in the Metro DC area he earned an MA in English and developed a unique process called the identity method and this process of identity transformation is the key to resolving inner conflict and acquiring new levels of learning and creativity his unconventional efforts to bring about societal and racial reconciliation led him to places like Indonesia Jordan Iraq Palestine Israel and all the way back to the US uh if you look for him in other podcasts and on YouTube you&amp;#39;ll find plenty of examples of crazy amazing stories that he is well known for uh so go do that depending on what we get into today and then he&amp;#39;s worked with leaders in professional sports business education law enforcement government nonprofit other sectors he&amp;#39;s also the author of a great book called living Fearless he and his wife Donna are co-founders of identity exchange which is a training and Consulting agency helps uh individuals and teams discover the new levels of creativity and resiliency within the framework of true identity so with that said Jamie welcome thanks thank you for having me W it&amp;#39;s great to be with you it it is great to be with you and we&amp;#39;ve known each other for now about a year and a half give or take uh almost two years I&amp;#39;ve had experience with your your organization and getting to to know you and I know you pretty well but some of my listeners may know you uh some of them may not so I&amp;#39;d love to start off with like hey uh what do leaders or what do the folks listening and the leaders listening need to know about you um I think that I&amp;#39;m just an average person um that uh the things I struggle with the things i&amp;#39; the success we&amp;#39;ve seen is really common to humanity and so I hope I I really hope my goal is always that whoever I&amp;#39;m talking to says I can do that I I could do that and I feel like if we&amp;#39;re training or teaching anyone and they don&amp;#39;t come away with like that seems pretty straightforward and something I can participate in I think we missed we missed the mark you know we&amp;#39;re in a celebrity culture so um it&amp;#39;s it&amp;#39;s a battle all the time to to to stay away from that you know we have to have some famous person come in and do everything and just just all of us in in the truth of who we are is it&amp;#39;s powerful that your identity is your gift to your world so that&amp;#39;s all I all I want people to know about me is I&amp;#39;m bringing my identity and this conversation with you and you&amp;#39;re doing it I know also so um that&amp;#39;s the most beautiful thing most powerful thing we on my end you cut out for a minute you may have said this but what what is what is your identity what&amp;#39;s the short form version of it my identity is it&amp;#39;s funny because uh we&amp;#39;re we&amp;#39;re working on a documentary right now on on the human trafficking industry and uh my identity is unti of knots and that was that&amp;#39;s been a process but a long time ago when I was actually um doing the psychological testing for a government agency in the state department that&amp;#39;s what they called me that they said you&amp;#39;re an interesting person because you&amp;#39;re like it&amp;#39;s like you go into conflict but you hate conflict like you&amp;#39;re trying to always resolve things and untangle things that was when I was 19 that they said that about me and all these years later I&amp;#39;m 64 now it&amp;#39;s like wow that is who I am I&amp;#39;m an unti of knots and whenever that&amp;#39;s the um identity I&amp;#39;m operating in I I find that I&amp;#39;m helpful and successful when I move outside of that identity not very successful so that&amp;#39;s that&amp;#39;s what I do I love that untie of knots and uh you know as you&amp;#39;ll see Jamie has a very different you you know you have a different take on what identity is and I would love how how would you define identity and and getting into the idea of because I mean identity is a big word what do you how do you identify that&amp;#39;s a that&amp;#39;s a Hot Topic these days and the way you speak about it is very different than the culture is speaking about it and so uh how would you define what identity is and and what is it not yeah interesting um so identity is the truest thing about you it&amp;#39;s identity is is rooted and grounded in love it&amp;#39;s identity is is received in community um identity is who you&amp;#39;ve always been and are becoming what the the identity is the most beautiful thing about a human being it&amp;#39;s deeper than roles and gender and all of that stuff it&amp;#39;s deeper than that it&amp;#39;s it&amp;#39;s something that you that you&amp;#39;re that&amp;#39;s you know knit together within you when you&amp;#39;re in your mother&amp;#39;s womb and you&amp;#39;re born into understanding and become as kard said with God&amp;#39;s help I&amp;#39;m becoming who I am you already are that the the problem is the counterfeit to true identity which I&amp;#39;ll say again is true identity is received in community so it&amp;#39;s from outside of yourself it&amp;#39;s something you&amp;#39;ve received and you&amp;#39;re discovering and moving into every culture is known this every culture&amp;#39;s had naming ceremonies it&amp;#39;s where the person begins to understand how who they are within the community and how valuable it&amp;#39;s your inherent worth and value apart from production the counterfeit to that is radical individualism which is what radical individualism is self-generated it&amp;#39;s subjective to circumstances and it produces almost immediate conflict internally and externally true identity brings Harmony and Reconciliation because I see myself as part of a whole like I&amp;#39;m an unti of knots but an unti of knots by themselves is not super valuable unless there&amp;#39;s other identities working together on the different uh uh on different challenges that we face in life so that&amp;#39;s what that&amp;#39;s what true identity is it&amp;#39;s just the truest thing about you it&amp;#39;s interesting we we&amp;#39;re doing this documentary working on so it&amp;#39;s fresh in my mind and we&amp;#39;re interviewing law enforcement people with years of experience in the whole child crime human trafficking and when we and we found particular Federal local uh um law enforcement people and they&amp;#39;re and they&amp;#39;re deeply compassionate but they didn&amp;#39;t begin compassionate they began we&amp;#39;re going to lock everybody up and like that but they over the when they hit the wall of like wow this isn&amp;#39;t working and there&amp;#39;s got to be another way and they discover the depth of who they really are and the gift they&amp;#39;re bringing to the world um they they all say it&amp;#39;s something I&amp;#39;ve always known about myself but couldn&amp;#39;t articulate and so when we ask him like why did you go into law enforcement the the person we just interviewed he&amp;#39;s a commander of a organized crime task force and his identity is defender of the innocent and he&amp;#39;s in his 60s and I asked him when did you know you were a defender of the innocent and he said I&amp;#39;ve kind of always known but never been able to articulate those words I&amp;#39;ve always been living it and so your identity is always present it gets hammered by the word world that gets crushed by ego and all these things but it&amp;#39;s still a little candle that&amp;#39;s burning and all it needs is to be recognized and developed and it turns into this beautiful full gift to the world so yeah that&amp;#39;s what it it&amp;#39;s beautiful different from radical individualism which is what we&amp;#39;re facing in the world and and I so leaders rewind that and listen to it again because this is a very different way of looking at at identity most of the time like I alluded to it&amp;#39;s you know I identify as this um I live in the Philly area so I&amp;#39;m an Eagles fan unfortunately this year um uh even last year uh but you know it&amp;#39;s it&amp;#39;s not the team I play on or root for okay I want you all to hear that it is not the job you do it is not you&amp;#39;re not a father um that might be a that&amp;#39;s a role you play and your identity has an uh an impact on that but it is deeper than that like Jamie like said I love grounded in love received in community and it&amp;#39;s something you&amp;#39;re becoming you&amp;#39;ve always been that you&amp;#39;re being drawn towards it uh so wi with that said um how does how does one I&amp;#39;m just GNA go right into it I I wasn&amp;#39;t sure how quickly I get to this convers this part of the conversation but how does one I know how I&amp;#39;ve been we talked about this on previous episodes with my co-host who um she&amp;#39;s not able to be here uh today unfortunately but it&amp;#39;s taken me a long time to get to the point where I can say I am a builder of constructs and a teaching profit you helped me with that and yet there was a lot of work that went into that yes what practically could you say to leaders say oh wow I have not thought about identity the way I well I&amp;#39;m just a I&amp;#39;m a leader I&amp;#39;m a CEO I&amp;#39;m a salesperson whatever I need to shift that I realize there&amp;#39;s something that needs to shift how do they do that how do they begin to do that yeah well you know and so just and you know this Chris because we you live this way and I do too it&amp;#39;s like unless what we&amp;#39;re talking about works on Monday morning morning when you&amp;#39;re all by yourself and everything&amp;#39;s basically going to hell in your life unless it holds true then it&amp;#39;s just we&amp;#39;re just talking about things that don&amp;#39;t matter it has to work in reality the the things that we&amp;#39;re the things that we&amp;#39;re engaging it have to work in reality so every time you asked me a question I&amp;#39;m thinking of real situations in real life not theoretical or hypothetical So currently right now you we work with people in the NFL and this is this time in the NFL when coaches are getting fired and it it this huge scramble and the anxiety and tension levels very high as you can imagine so when we&amp;#39;re talking to coaches who have who have been in a position for a long time and they&amp;#39;re well known and they lose that position um they if they think their identity comes from being an NFL coach I mean you&amp;#39;re basically plunging into an abyss yeah if you if a player thinks his identity as an NFL player and you that career ends which it&amp;#39;s going to you&amp;#39;re lost but same for a salesperson or a police officer if you get your identity from what you do what you have and what people think about you you&amp;#39;re going to be bouncing around in life in a ton of anxiety and fear and constant concern about am I making it am I doing it and the and so so for the easiest way to work through this process and we just you know I just did this in Witchita with 800 people at one time but is to just begin with like what am I afraid of like in life what produces fear and anxiety in me and then um as you&amp;#39;re digging into that and you know we can talk more about that process but this is the question I always ask people what are names you believe about yourself that hurt you what are names that you believe about yourself that hurt you some some names are negative for sure you know you&amp;#39;re not good enough you&amp;#39;re not smart enough you&amp;#39;re not fast enough they hurt you but also names like you&amp;#39;re the most amazing person I&amp;#39;ve ever met you&amp;#39;re the best player those those the cursings and blessings of mankind destroy people because they&amp;#39;re not an authentic identity right they&amp;#39;re based on the view of other people the view of the marketplace the view of your production rate and as long as you&amp;#39;re operating in that I mean you can see the conflict level in our own country um and it&amp;#39;s because we&amp;#39;re operating in identities that are not true and we know deep down they&amp;#39;re not true but we don&amp;#39;t know what to do about them so so you know the beginning of that process is just can you tell the truth about what you believe about yourself that hurts you because that&amp;#39;s really what&amp;#39;s dominating your decision making right so there&amp;#39;s a one player coach got released and I texted him and I said hey remember your identity is and I texted him his identity because we did the process together a long time ago and I said it&amp;#39;s not it&amp;#39;s not you don&amp;#39;t get your identity from your position in the NFL he wrote me back immediately and he said that&amp;#39;s my piece that&amp;#39;s my piece in this whole process is that I don&amp;#39;t get my identity from the job how much Freedom do you have to be creative in your job if you don&amp;#39;t get your identity from the job that&amp;#39;s what leaders need to understand you if you want a team that is a high performing joyful which is the highest level of creativity in human is Joy it&amp;#39;s the high it&amp;#39;s Joy is the jet fuel of human creativity in the brain that that team needs to be operating in the truth of who each one of them are and the leader needs to be moving in that identity and and knowing how to bring those identities together because the false identities kill a team and mostly that&amp;#39;s what we&amp;#39;re working with our false identities self- protection self-promotion I I want to get to the self- protection self-promotion but um so going back to how do I learn what my identity is you&amp;#39;d said hey what am I afraid of what creates the fear what are those names that I believe about s that hurt me they could be I&amp;#39;m not good enough like mine has been um or I am or I&amp;#39;m the best at this whatever that is could be both positive and negative where did they go after that what happens next yeah so so every human what that what every human needs and when we when you know when we&amp;#39;re working in counterterrorism or anything like this it&amp;#39;s so funny people think well if you&amp;#39;re talking to you know someone like Hamas or Isis or something like that that they&amp;#39;re different than the CEO of a you know Fortune 500 company they&amp;#39;re not the Mot motivators are exactly the same the fears are exactly the same so by the way listeners that&amp;#39;s true he&amp;#39;s Jamie&amp;#39;s had experience with that just so you know anyway J sorry we do work with those folks wait a minute yeah that&amp;#39;s not a generalized statement that&amp;#39;s just from actual work with those folks over in the Middle East is the same principle but because humans are humans and so once a a human look is looking for attachment and belonging that&amp;#39;s what humans crave because we&amp;#39;re communal and we don&amp;#39;t live in isolation and when we do we die or we become destructive so so when you&amp;#39;re and because you&amp;#39;re a communal you learn things about yourself from parents in the world and you you learn you&amp;#39;re not smart enough you get measured in school or something and you you know you fail and okay that&amp;#39;s an identity that&amp;#39;s what hurts us so once you know those you have to have a place to unload them to offload them because you learned them you took them on you agreed with them yeah you know once you tell you know I have granddaughters and they&amp;#39;re they think they&amp;#39;re beautiful and they think they&amp;#39;re great singers and they think they&amp;#39;re great actresses and they are until someone says they&amp;#39;re not once someone mean or trying to help tells them you know you&amp;#39;re not a very good singer every time they look in the mirror that identity is now present and that happens to as we grow up intentional or unintentional and you as long as you&amp;#39;re agreeing with them they become true and you live them out so you have to have a place you didn&amp;#39;t you weren&amp;#39;t born with them so we have to have a place to offload them so you need some type of process in your life to get rid of the false we we call that true telling or confession or whatever a word is that&amp;#39;s like that like separates you from the false view or the false identity and so you need a mental contemplative process and all Innovation is preceded by contemplation in every human being there&amp;#39;s no you this isn&amp;#39;t about religion it&amp;#39;s about what&amp;#39;s true contemplation precedes Innovation so in a contemplative creative imaginative mindset which is human&amp;#39;s greatest gift you need a place to visually get rid of those false identities you have to give them to someone or somewhere and so you can give them to the universe or love or God or Christ but you have to be able to see them and it&amp;#39;s amazing when you&amp;#39;re with people and say c can you imagine that you&amp;#39;re sitting with unconditional love or God um or wisdom and wisdom wants to take the burden from you of the false all the false all of it that you believe and and you can visualize giving it away in order that you can think in a new way you can&amp;#39;t think in a new way believing the false believing the old the old will dominate because it&amp;#39;s a protection measure and you know biologically and through Evolution and all we&amp;#39;re we have systems that protect us but when but when we&amp;#39;re not in danger they&amp;#39;re still protecting and we don&amp;#39;t know how to like shut them down so this process allows us to drop our fists we call it and to receive the truth about who we are so once you identify the false beliefs those things those names that hurt you you need somewhere a process to unload that and you know contemplation I I can already tell this is something that I&amp;#39;m going to tell my listeners you need to listen to this more than once um because these these things I&amp;#39;ve heard them several times so I already understand but at the same time s um uh what did you say uh not surrender um Innovation is preceded by contemplation always all without read the history of innovation in humanity contemplation precedes it otherwise you just make the same mistakes over and over again which is what we do yes it is it is so you know from there you offload that and then um is there another step where you&amp;#39;re receiving or hearing what your identity is absolutely yeah so remember the false that you believe about yourself you receive right it is all about receiving and agreeing with what is said about you or what you think about yourself based on circumstance so it&amp;#39;s about re everything&amp;#39;s about receiving and and when you you know we like you said we can get to self- protection and self-promotion but that&amp;#39;s when you shut down is when you&amp;#39;re in self- protection this is the worst state you could be in is that you can&amp;#39;t even contemplate and you can&amp;#39;t innovate you can only imitate in a place of self- protection so once I&amp;#39;ve once I&amp;#39;ve offloaded I have this mental contemplative process of offloading the false like my big one is I&amp;#39;m a disappointment I have to deal with this every single day and so I you know in a play in a quiet contemplative breathing like okay what do I believe about myself that I&amp;#39;m a disappointment where did I learn that that&amp;#39;s another part of the deeper part of the process who told me that I was a discipline where did you learn that you should see people when you ask them that question and they start because your brain remembers who said it that your brain holds on to that and you got to reroute that neural pathway but then once you&amp;#39;ve got it out here and you give it away to love like take this from me I I I release this I don&amp;#39;t want to walk in this anymore you give it to love or God or whatever and you you&amp;#39;ve swept the house clean we call it getting empty once you&amp;#39;re empty now you can receive now you&amp;#39;re free to receive and so then you ask love or God or wisdom what do you say about me what does love the universe call me and have your Journal your note P ad ready and write down the thoughts that come through your mind and don&amp;#39;t don&amp;#39;t resist them like people have these amazing things come to their mind you&amp;#39;re beautiful you&amp;#39;re loved you&amp;#39;re a poet you&amp;#39;re a a defender of Innocence like one of the agents said yesterday a lover of the guilty and other agent said like don&amp;#39;t say no to that which is our tendency but to to learn to receive from love learn to receive and that&amp;#39;s then your mind changes then you then you have a shift in thinking and then you can walk out new processes in new ways so it&amp;#39;s truth tell mind change form change you you know when we look at our society no one really tells the truth I mean it&amp;#39;s not that everyone lies but we basically don&amp;#39;t know the truth about ourselves or the other our neighbor for sure um and so you have to learn how to tell the truth yeah I believe I&amp;#39;m a disappointment that is a huge move transer AAL move in a person when they can say that but don&amp;#39;t leave it there no then who are you and then once you understand well I&amp;#39;m a defender of Innocence then we would ask like these law enforcement people once you understood that how did it affect your job and it&amp;#39;s dramatic how it affected their job and their mental health and their compassion level so that&amp;#39;s it truth tell mind change and then form change so what does love call you yeah does love call you not enough does God call you not does God make not enough does love create not enough does when the you know does the universe develop trees and grass and that&amp;#39;s not enough they&amp;#39;re all perfect in their identity they&amp;#39;re all be and they interconnect with all the others gorgeous beautiful it is and and and so man so many ways I could go with this so so by understanding listen it&amp;#39;s important for you to understand your identity in the way that we&amp;#39;re talking about it not just your role and and Jim&amp;#39;s alluded to this already it&amp;#39;s because there are only two World Views we operate from and when we operate from the false it leads to not enough versus when we&amp;#39;re operating in our true self we are actually operating from abundance and that scarcity that fear that not enough that self- protection self-interest then can be overcome and put away it&amp;#39;s not even like you conquer it it just goes goes away and it it&amp;#39;s like it flows into the um uh you the mystery and uh accepting things as they are and like for my my journey which I know you know a little bit for sure about this Jamie but it&amp;#39;s like man when I got to the point where I I could understand who I really was that not enough that&amp;#39;s mine right I&amp;#39;m not enough I&amp;#39;m not I&amp;#39;m not um I&amp;#39;m not good enough right it it goes to um competency right so I&amp;#39;m not good enough once I understood that&amp;#39;s not true and what my true identity the parts of it are I&amp;#39;m like okay now regardless of what happens to my business regardless of what happens to this offer regardless of what happens with whatever I know that I can operate with surrender and allowing those things to kind of come in and hold those things Loosely and that&amp;#39;s where that conflict like you said comes in um so for leaders to understand their identity it it and their teams it really allows us to operate from that abundance what what can you talk about that for a minute because I know you talk for hours about it but like you know yeah I don&amp;#39;t know what keep going with that well it&amp;#39;s like you know you and you said it and it&amp;#39;s really cool because you know listening to you I I do know you and I I&amp;#39;ve watched The Journey that you&amp;#39;ve been on and it&amp;#39;s I have a lot of respect for how you&amp;#39;re moving and operating yeah I really do and so again it&amp;#39;s like we&amp;#39;re not sitting here like Talking Heads we&amp;#39;re like and it&amp;#39;s a journey it&amp;#39;s a struggle y because of what you said all right here&amp;#39;s here&amp;#39;s the struggle so we are born into a worldview as you&amp;#39;re alluding to and um and a worldview is not what party you belong to or are you&amp;#39;re a conservative or a Democrat or a or a Christian biblical or a Muslim quranic worldview those aren&amp;#39;t worldviews that&amp;#39;s what you&amp;#39;re coming up because of your worldview you&amp;#39;re coming up with these team names and these separations and all that so worldview is just the lens through which you see the world and you learn a worldview you&amp;#39;re born into a worldview and you hear it 247 and there&amp;#39;s only two World Views you can read economic theory you can read anthropology you can read religious um um stories of creation and you&amp;#39;re going to find these two worldviews and it&amp;#39;s the separation worldview and the connection worldview very simple the separation worldview just says look there&amp;#39;s not enough for anybody and everybody so we got to separate into groups and you got to protect your own because there&amp;#39;s just not enough now if anyone can&amp;#39;t see that running our country whatever party you&amp;#39;re in that you&amp;#39;re blind or companies or like it&amp;#39;s not like about we anyway so the separation worldview is built on scarcity I&amp;#39;m not enough there&amp;#39;s not enough time there&amp;#39;s not enough money there&amp;#39;s not enough jobs there&amp;#39;s not enough anything which leads to certainty a search for certainty which leads to extremism which look at the extremism that&amp;#39;s going on in our whatever side you&amp;#39;re on to perfectionism to self- protection and self-promotion that&amp;#39;s a whole worldview and 99% of the world operates in it all the time the world the other worldview that&amp;#39;s out there that&amp;#39;s harder it&amp;#39;s is the interconnected um connection worldview which says there&amp;#39;s not it&amp;#39;s not scarcity in the world there&amp;#39;s enough in the world for everyone there is enough there&amp;#39;s not enough for three people to own it all that&amp;#39;s that&amp;#39;s a scarcity mindset a scarcity mindset is like I&amp;#39;m GNA collect as much as I can take it out of circulation so people have to come to me to get it create separation it creates conflict like that in the enough worldview it&amp;#39;s like there&amp;#39;s enough there&amp;#39;s enough for me and my neighbor there&amp;#39;s enough because life is not certain it&amp;#39;s a mystery everything&amp;#39;s a mystery there is no certainty in this life other than you&amp;#39;re going to die and even that&amp;#39;s a mystery um so it&amp;#39;s all mystery and so humans love mystery we we Grace is a mystery love is a mystery forgiveness is a huge mystery that we don&amp;#39;t even attempt and but it&amp;#39;s all these beautiful Mysteries and we love mystery we hate certainty we hate formula but it makes us feel safe so we&amp;#39;ll get into these bored safe destructive lives because we&amp;#39;re afraid to be in mystery which we truly love it&amp;#39;s it&amp;#39;s sad so when you&amp;#39;re looking at those two worldviews you know it&amp;#39;s not a matter of um which is better it&amp;#39;s which one is true that&amp;#39;s the question the scarcity worldview is not true how do we know look at look at all of creation reality no no no tree is out there saying I got to get more territory for myself no nothing&amp;#39;s doing that except humans because humans are afraid because they think there&amp;#39;s not enough so I&amp;#39;m going to take I got to take what doesn&amp;#39;t belong to me in order to protect my own and the you know the strongest wind kind of thing just finally I&amp;#39;ll say about that you know when covid happened you talk about a mystery oh my gosh none of us knew what to do nobody knew what was really going on but boy did we go after certainty on it right these extremes right we went like we weren&amp;#39;t certain we&amp;#39;re certain um and so the certainty led to scarce terrible scarcity mentality to where like in my neighborhood when we found out that toilet paper was critical to our survival which it wasn&amp;#39;t didn&amp;#39;t even have anything to do with covid we what did humans do they killed themselves to get as much toilet paper to the if I said to my neighbors you know get out of my way I got to get toilet paper I I love you but I need the toilet paper more than you do it&amp;#39;s just ridiculous because crisis doesn&amp;#39;t make a person it reveals a person and what Co revealed was how fast we&amp;#39;ll separate into camps and and insult one another families split up over the co it like it was unbelievable because we live and are trained in a separation scarcity worldview and we move to it immediately so if you&amp;#39;re trying to build a team in a scarcity worldview which is what we&amp;#39;re doing we&amp;#39;re going to become more and more violent as the world is becoming more and more violent and but if you move into the connection worldview which you can only do in a true identity then it&amp;#39;s like you know what there&amp;#39;s enough and if Chris and I are are are are working together and Chris succeeds I&amp;#39;m happy because in an interconnected real worldview when he succeeds I succeed and when he fails I fail and we think if I just kick these people in my city out we&amp;#39;ll be fine you&amp;#39;re you&amp;#39;re all going to go down everyone&amp;#39;s going to go down and everything in creation reality knows that except delusional humans who are all into self self yeah self- protection you know I I look around you know it is January 2024 as we&amp;#39;re recording this man I feel like we&amp;#39;re back in like I don&amp;#39;t know what is it 2020 or 2016 like it just leadership here okay let me say this I I have come to believe firmly and and it&amp;#39;s more and more deeply I&amp;#39;m believing it more and more deeply business is a part of the Redemption plan of the world it plays a critical role therefore leaders play a very critical role and when I look around me there is a leadership vacuum and a big part of that right now is that scarcity separate worldview and script playing over and over and like look I&amp;#39;m not going to blame it all on the digital uh divide and and social media certainly has exacerbated it because we&amp;#39;re comparing ourselves and saying I&amp;#39;m not enough or I don&amp;#39;t have that I need that but how I mean okay so leaders I&amp;#39;m trying to think like I what I really want to help leaders do is to understand what I just said that they play a very important part in making the world whole and in order for that to happen they&amp;#39;ve got to get whole so with our conversation they need to understand their identity go through that process that we were talking about and then okay now they&amp;#39;ve got to lead an organization in that what what in what I don&amp;#39;t know if you have any stories or advice or input on how do leaders then like and I know we&amp;#39;re in 10 minutes we talked about this process not enough we could go a lot deeper but let&amp;#39;s assume they get there what do they do next how do they lead an organization and what advice or input would you have for leaders that are like okay I want to lead an organization from a a connected world view yeah so I&amp;#39;ll give you examples and I you know I have to be a vague a slightly vague because in process but yes so we we um had a we do this thing called export and what it is is just a it&amp;#39;s a thing we do in our community that um people can come in and we spend three days doing what you&amp;#39;re talking about and what&amp;#39;re we call it export because we&amp;#39;re not keep we don&amp;#39;t want to keep these things for ourselves we&amp;#39;re exporting them it&amp;#39;s our gift to the world and so we want this you know people to understand identity and worldview and how they&amp;#39;re operating what they&amp;#39;re afraid of and all that so we we so it&amp;#39;s open we have certain dates and open and people come so on the on uh last year uh maybe maybe a little bit longer yeah anyway so two small groups came a total of probably 20 people one of the groups was composed of doctors that just knew each other and they came medical doctors and another group was uh was all from One professional sport just put that and so these and they don&amp;#39;t know each other they they&amp;#39;d come and they they&amp;#39;re together for three days so we&amp;#39;re and all&amp;#39;re we don&amp;#39;t care what their vocation is or you know if they&amp;#39;re famous or not we don&amp;#39;t care this is like human beings we all do these exercises together we&amp;#39;re mixed together what are you afraid of we teach them how to truth tell mind change form change but as they&amp;#39;re doing it they start to think okay if I understood who I really am and then I understand a connected world viiew what would happen in my vocation if I took that back to my hospital or team um that&amp;#39;s the the Final Phase of what we do okay how does that how does that mind change bring form change because we&amp;#39;re always trying to change the form of things and nobody&amp;#39;s mind is changed that&amp;#39;s that&amp;#39;s how we do and we the way we do it is through power and control yep which creates constant conflict so anyway so so the doctors three doctors just three of them go out and in the following year they decide what how can we change Healthcare three guys three people how can we change Healthcare they so all Innovation is preceded by contemplation so they take days of contemplation these three doctors in my vocation in the truth of who I am in a connected worldview what would Health Care look like in my town in my city um for one year they worked on that and and and then I don&amp;#39;t know four weeks ago three weeks ago one of them calls me goes hey we&amp;#39;re having a we&amp;#39;re having a dinner um we&amp;#39;re we&amp;#39;re inviting the medical profession to come to it and in our little area it&amp;#39;s $40 a plate like wow okay it&amp;#39;s Rich doctor so go to it 85 doctors are there 85 doctors are there and they stand up these three guys stand up and present a plan of preventative lowcost health care for our community that allows the doctors to make a living but all levels of society to come in and get well that&amp;#39;s what they called it getting whole getting well and then they and they showed how they were doing it and I called doctors I work with in medical universities and in other states and told them about and they all connected that was three guys that went through this process the the professional athletes got together and spent the year doing what would it look like if we had one whole franchise that operated in a connected true identity worldview you instead of I get my identity from how much money I make for my salary for my signing bonus from wins what would it look like if the if the sport was just joyful game and they came up with a whole strategy too which they&amp;#39;re hope they&amp;#39;re going to try and enact next year but they&amp;#39;re so excited about it so here finally on that that&amp;#39;s what you can do in real life companies can change everything if they have a model of leadership that people can look to that is other Focus self- Ting unconditional love humans can&amp;#39;t do what they&amp;#39;ve never seen they don&amp;#39;t see any leaders in business or politics that they can name that is other Focus self-emptying unconditional love that&amp;#39;s the connected worldview but if we gave them models people will move to it pretty rapidly cuz it&amp;#39;s so joyful and it&amp;#39;s so whole and it&amp;#39;s so resilient so in business so last thing on that so the we were having this discussion like how do we and I know you think about this all the time Chris how do we impact the business World well one of our guys who&amp;#39;s in the business world one of our coaches he said the other day you know I&amp;#39;ve been studying this question and the Romans said they wanted to know how to control a region or a city without leaving their military there and they because they want their military out in the field they don&amp;#39;t want them you know running uh public affairs like the US did in going say that sounds contemporarily relative boy and it obviously doesn&amp;#39;t work but we&amp;#39;ll keep doing it because we don&amp;#39;t have any innovation in that area but what the Romans decided was if they controlled Health Care education entertainment and Athletics they would run the whole place so he he just said that offand and I&amp;#39;m like oh my gosh what about what about business and and the Roman said if we control Health Care education Athletics and entertainment all business will follow that all of it which is really brilliant so then we thought wow what a in our work in the around the country even last night had a fascinating conversation with a high level Congress person who who we&amp;#39;ve been working with for a while um and talking about what&amp;#39;s 2024 look like in terms of all this um we realized that the the the areas that have most responded to identity has been Health Care education I mean we&amp;#39;re all over the educational system Athletics and entertainment right and so in those places how can we you know imagine if kids were watching entertainment that taught them wholeness and resiliency through understanding true identity and worldview imagine what they would be like imagine if if if whe when the doctors in our area are doing what they&amp;#39;re putting people in community groups the people come to the doctor that I like part of your treatment is you have to meet in a group of six people they had people in there given testimonies we&amp;#39;ve never been in a community ever in our life as soon as we got in the community we started losing weight that&amp;#39;s what the doctors are prescribing get in a community group and they said you know what it cost nothing he said yeah so we&amp;#39;re not we&amp;#39;re not we&amp;#39;re not helping people get well we&amp;#39;re man managing people&amp;#39;s pain that&amp;#39;s what you know that&amp;#39;s what a culture does go back to the business I mean so um uh the topics we&amp;#39;re covering this season right you&amp;#39;re you&amp;#39;re in the second half of this season um you know this episode won&amp;#39;t be released for a month and a half or so and we talk about authentic Community being essential for leadership and it&amp;#39;s it it&amp;#39;s so you know to bring this down you know to the ground level for leaders like look I and this is why I&amp;#39;m so passionate about the the topics I I needed we needed this or I felt like this season needed to be focused on the leader instead of external processes it&amp;#39;s like look the leader&amp;#39;s in trouble we&amp;#39;ve got you know the the first episode we defined the problem of our souls being sucked out of us by Distraction by um you know phone and technology and and I know my listeners are going be like you&amp;#39;ve said this a million times Chris but I&amp;#39;m gonna say it again because I&amp;#39;m gonna say it to you John orberg said on a podcast another podcast recently that great the sense of flow um that another guy from Hungarian and I can&amp;#39;t say his name um I can&amp;#39;t pronounce his name um talked about the uned Mind tends towards chaos so um really all life is is managing our Consciousness in a way right and and th that mindset of not enough and those voices that you&amp;#39;re talking about with identity goes to that very Foundation of managing our Consciousness and the story that&amp;#39;s being told there at an unconscious level and so uh if we&amp;#39;re not addressing that in a in a real way we&amp;#39;re in trouble and he goes on to say never before in history this is probably the first time ever in human history that we have been able to Outsource the management of our Consciousness to things like technology and that is so detrimental to leaders which is why I&amp;#39;m starting with this and this topic of identity is crucial to understanding your role in life one number two Your Role outside of business because your identity does not come from your role in your business and if it does you&amp;#39;re in trouble um and number two when it is healthy and you&amp;#39;ve got a whole life and it&amp;#39;s uh I heard uh somebody say the other day that the things that count most are not what you get paid for in life right it&amp;#39;s like H okay well um however we have an identity that gets played out in vocation in business and you have a role to play to make your community whole like those doctors are doing you can&amp;#39;t do it from a false identity right and so I love what you said about model of leadership which is others Focus self-emptying unconditional love and so leaders um reach reach out to Jamie reach out to me um we we can point you in the right directions obviously you know get in touch with Jamie he&amp;#39;s got coaches and processes that can help you with identity and you can&amp;#39;t give away what you don&amp;#39;t have and you also can&amp;#39;t help but give away what you do have so if you have the false identity you&amp;#39;re going to give that away which is uh Peter skazo said that in emotionally healthy leader and so um once that happens then you can go and say great well how can this transform my business and then the world others Focus self-emptying unconditional love but you got to start with that identity um let me ask because I had a few folks that I pulled about some questions um that I wanted to make sure I talked about um and so how what might cause people to if they get a sense of their identity and they understand that what have you seen um what triggers somebody to maybe lose their way or lose the grasp of identity does that happen once somebody understands it every every day I mean I have to deal with this every single day yeah be because this is back to the worldview that you live in so like you can take a you can take a minnow and raise it in a in a you know tank that&amp;#39;s healthy and pure in the water is amazing and the fish learns who the Predators are and what the good food sources are and then you throw it in a toxic pond it&amp;#39;s gonna die right so it&amp;#39;s not because the fish doesn&amp;#39;t know who it is or who everyone else is it&amp;#39;s breathing something that it doesn&amp;#39;t know it&amp;#39;s breathing and it&amp;#39;s poisoning it so one of the great struggles in identity is even even what you&amp;#39;re talking about like social media right we can Outsource for the first time but it&amp;#39;s because we we don&amp;#39;t W to be in internal so we want to Outsource like we don&amp;#39;t want to go in here it&amp;#39;s not a safe place for us to be exactly right so so it&amp;#39;s easy that you know we should social media all that can be the greatest and most amazing thing ever but when wounded people use things they use it to manage their own pain that&amp;#39;s what they use it for or to Escape right but a healthy person will use it for creativity and Innovation and connectedness so so um so what what crushes like me you know like I I have you know a whole calendar of things I&amp;#39;m going to do today most of them I feel incapable of doing but and and so if I sat here more than at you know my own brain going wow can I do this no you&amp;#39;re going to be a disappointment in that that&amp;#39;s what I&amp;#39;ve heard my whole life growing up you&amp;#39;re a disappointment you&amp;#39;re it&amp;#39;s very hard to reroute that neural pathway but I did but I have you know and it&amp;#39;s constant discipline it&amp;#39;s like it&amp;#39;s like spiritual push-ups you do them every day and as soon as you stop you get weaker like that&amp;#39;s a fact of the universe you have to stay in the discipline of these things everyone you know it takes work to be successful in things lots of work but the work can be joyful so what happens is like I&amp;#39;ll wake up in the morning this is my process wake I did it this morning wake up immediately I get faced down on the floor this is just to help me recognize my position in the whole thing like you&amp;#39;re know this you&amp;#39;re just one of everybody else and and I do confession I do truth telling today I have these tasks and I&amp;#39;m speaking to God and here&amp;#39;s what I believe about myself going into these tasks I&amp;#39;m not able to do it I&amp;#39;m a disappointment this is what I believe I give that belief to God what do you say listen you know meditate contemplate on it and then and then okay then give me wisdom to be that be give me wisdom and strength to be who the reality of who I am the truth of who I am and everything that I do today it doesn&amp;#39;t take me three minutes starting the process I&amp;#39;m like oh my gosh because here comes the world the LIE we call it the Empire saying you&amp;#39;re not enough you are not enough and here come the comparisons like here they are here they come you know look at that person look at this thing and and so if I&amp;#39;m securing my identity those things don&amp;#39;t affect me like yeah bless you great fantastic good job well done beautiful I don&amp;#39;t like the way you did that but listen I you know you&amp;#39;re a human you&amp;#39;re wounded you&amp;#39;re doing what you do I release you and forgiveness that kind of beauty and wholeness and resiliency and then you go through the day and at the end of the day I&amp;#39;m grateful you know I&amp;#39;m just grateful because really you only can work in the present tense so that&amp;#39;s all you really have yes and I&amp;#39;m grateful and then when I go to sleep and I wake up the next morning I&amp;#39;m a disappointment again right and it&amp;#39;s just that process it&amp;#39;s just that beautiful process and it makes you grow and it makes you innovate and it makes you it it creates wholeness which creates resiliency in you and I&amp;#39;m telling you you want to be on a team with people that do that yes that&amp;#39;s what you want and you need show me a leader I taught this at a IV League school recently and when I I did worldview to and you know the crowd might would be not conservative at all but and and maybe atheistic doesn&amp;#39;t matter that doesn&amp;#39;t matter but what I was doing World Views they totally agreed at the end that yeah we agree we&amp;#39;re living in a separation scarce no question about it and we&amp;#39;re being taught leadership in a separation scarcity strategy which is producing greater and greater conflict in our country and world and so and then I said do you love that and they said no we hate it we didn&amp;#39;t know there was an alternative here&amp;#39;s the alternative connective worldview look out the window there it is in process look at that mountain there it is working connected worldview There It Is Everything can only exist in relationship to another you can&amp;#39;t separate and live in this reality that we&amp;#39;re in and they said okay that&amp;#39;s beautiful who&amp;#39;s a leader that lives like that that&amp;#39;s what they asked me they couldn&amp;#39;t think of a leader that they know that&amp;#39;s not self-protecting and self-promoting working scarcity and it&amp;#39;s all about beat the competition beat the competition beat the competition I said can&amp;#39;t we win the competition couldn&amp;#39;t we win the competition couldn&amp;#39;t we win the Taliban instead of beating them we don&amp;#39;t know how to do it all we know how to do is beat and fight and predatorial economics that&amp;#39;s all we know but it doesn&amp;#39;t work it creates world wars and so they said show us a leader and I said Martin Luther King Jr Nelson Mandela gandi and then I said but ask those guys who their model was and they&amp;#39;ll say Jesus and I said so I don&amp;#39;t care what you think about Jesus whether he&amp;#39;s Divinity or not that&amp;#39;s a world leader that&amp;#39;s a leader that had a huge amount of impact with no Army and no political power he that demonstrates and this is the message and Martin Luther King Martin Luther King Jr could get white people to march with him right that&amp;#39;s the be that&amp;#39;s the incredible thing and even then he was willing to lay down his life but but what Jesus modeled in Martin Luther King saw in Mandela is forgiveness right and and just this incredible statement if you want to conquer the Roman Empire that&amp;#39;s oppressing you you need to serve them and love them and and that will bring transformation to him and it did the Second Mile it worked and so the students were like yeah okay that&amp;#39;s fair those are fair historical evidence of that and then one of them said does that mean that we have to lay down our life for our enemy and I said yes it does and then he said then I&amp;#39;m out boom there it is there&amp;#39;s the self- protection and self-promotion even when we see the beauty of the other it&amp;#39;s still like in the end though I gotta watch out for number one and bam we&amp;#39;re back at the same point yeah well okay so here&amp;#39;s what I love about what you just said I I uh we didn&amp;#39;t plan this so uh part of what I&amp;#39;m sharing with people if you&amp;#39;re going to fight the Empire right we&amp;#39;ll use your language to fight the empire not only do you have to know identity but you have to have some practices that you practice it&amp;#39;s not trying it&amp;#39;s training it&amp;#39;s practicing and what you said is every day you have these practices that go back to push the waters back to push the Empire back to remind you who you really are and to live in that state and and here&amp;#39;s the answer to the question in a simple way how do people lose their identity lose their way they don&amp;#39;t have those practices they say oh that&amp;#39;s great and then they don&amp;#39;t do anything with it they don&amp;#39;t protect it and they don&amp;#39;t live in that they don&amp;#39;t practice that and that&amp;#39;s why um you know a large part of why I&amp;#39;m bringing these practices to leaders even though they&amp;#39;re ancient practices and maybe more religious than um you know there&amp;#39;s a lot of value we must have these practices we must slow down we must contemplate you know we&amp;#39;ve got to surrender and understand our identity and all of that stuff or leadership doesn&amp;#39;t work you continue to operate in the scarce mindset and we can&amp;#39;t it&amp;#39;s not going to work the world needs us too um needs us I I put that in quotes um but you know if we&amp;#39;re going to be a part of the The Plan of Redemption as I&amp;#39;m saying it then we&amp;#39;ve got to get into that other uh other mindset okay we are out of time uh and so before we run out of time Jamie um I want to ask if in 30 or 60 seconds I I don&amp;#39;t know would you be able to share your definition of leadership with us and then I want to give you a chance to how can people find you well our website identity exchange.com there all kinds of resources on there we just we it&amp;#39;s it&amp;#39;s out now but there&amp;#39;s a free download on there called finding hope and depression which I just encourage people to check into it&amp;#39;s really helpful um you know yeah my definition of leadership is um serve it really is serve I I love you know just going back to the example of Jesus for you know just as a historical example um when he says to the Samaritan woman who&amp;#39;s very who&amp;#39;s very separated you know the Jews and the Samaritans very separate very hostile towards one another very similar to the situation in the Middle East today and Jesus said and she identifies him as a Jew and a man and she&amp;#39;s a Samaritan and a woman all the things that we&amp;#39;re fighting about and she&amp;#39;s not a good woman she&amp;#39;s a bad woman and how dare you tell me and all this and Jesus says to her if you knew who I was and the gift I am sent to you by God your identity is your gift to the world as a leader as anyone your your identity my gift to my kid is not that I&amp;#39;m a good dad it&amp;#39;s that I know how to untie their knots that&amp;#39;s all I&amp;#39;ve ever done in their life and they know that and my gift to my wife is I untie her knots my wife is a Timeless lifegiver that&amp;#39;s right Denny what she gives to me is timeless life that&amp;#39;s what she does and we exchange our identities we share our identities and when I go to work on my team my gift to my team is I and tither not and then we share those identities and together you have a body a whole body and people are like how do I be a good dad and how do I be a good like get learn your identity and give it to the world where everywhere all day long leadership and Jesus says if you understood who I was my identity which you don&amp;#39;t because you&amp;#39;re calling me a Jew and a man and that&amp;#39;s not an identity if you understood who I was you would ask me to get you a drink to serve you and I will ask me to serve you and I will that&amp;#39;s astounding statement so as a leader I&amp;#39;m I&amp;#39;m here to untie your knots well I untie you&amp;#39;re not you give your identity as a gift to the team and together we&amp;#39;re going to innovate and create and resolve the problem of conflict in the areas where we&amp;#39;ve been invited to work and that&amp;#39;s what we do and and when I look at my team the way we start every team meeting is is anyone dealing with negative emotion like we have to make sure the team every day is in the truth of who they really are because that&amp;#39;s their highest creative level then whatever we&amp;#39;re going to face in the day we&amp;#39;re going to create together and innovate but it begins with contemplation serve that&amp;#39;s my serve you want to hear the best counterterrorism stories ever from operatives out there in the world they will tell you they fought for a while but then they learn to serve and that turns the tide every time well Jamie it&amp;#39;s been an honor and a pleasure and honestly you I know without a shadow of a doubt you&amp;#39;ve untied some knots for uh people in this conversation I know even with the what you just said about applying your identity to your your marriage and family unti or not for me right there so um I deeply appreciate you you already know that um and yet I hope some of the listeners that listen to this I know when they hear you go search them out go look it up on YouTube um there&amp;#39;s plenty of content find him at his website identity exchange.com pick up his book living Fearless um you know get to know Jamie because as a leader what he has to say is essential so uh thank you Jamie I appreciate you man hey thanks for being an example Chris thank you oh yeah uh thank you I appreciate you

Transcript for:Interview with Jamie Winship: Understanding and Applying True Identity

Transcript for:
Interview with Jamie Winship: Understanding and Applying True Identity