Exploring Adnan Syed's Case in Serial

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episode where I'm going to let Adan talk for a while I want to run by you some new information I've learned in the past week three things I've learned first remember Laura the former Laura Estrada Sandoval the one who asked well then who the [ __ ] did it in the last episode she was friends with Stephanie and with Jay and with Adnan I was talking to Laura on the phone the other day and she mentioned something about Best Buy and so I asked her if I could start taping tell me tell me again what you just told me there's no there was never any phones at Best Buy there were never any phones around the Best Buy no pay phone no no phone booth no no that's like blank there's no phones there the pay phone in question is important because Jay tells the detectives that Anan called him on January 13th 1999 and told Jay he' killed hay quote come and get me I'm at Best Buy when Jay gets there he says he sees ad Nan standing by the phone booth wearing red gloves he draws a map for the cops showing the location of the phone booth and if you're facing the front doors of the store his drawing shows the booth on the left outside on the sidewalk we did a lot of research on this where it was whether it was and we could not account for this phone booth Laura said that's because it never was she said the only conceivable place for a phone at the Best Buy would have been inside in the foyer part of the store but there was no phone there either Laura says she knows this because she used to go to that Best Buy a lot from the time it opened through 98 into '99 with her family and without her family and I used to you know I don't know steal CDs from there all the time so I was pretty aware of like what was around you're saying you would shoplift CDs yeah sorry but um I don't have the CDs um what so you're saying you would have noticed a thing like that because you were kind of yeah because you're kind of like paying attention like you go in and like you kind of are more aware of your surroundings than just walking into the store you know at the time I remember up in the ceiling and seeing if there was any eyes in the skies any cameras you know and you know there's a whole method but you were very you very aware of like entering and who was like who was there at the entrance and when you're leaving you know cuz you're like I can stealing and man there's no phones there Laura and I hypothesized why if there really wasn't a phone booth how could the cops have missed a detail like that wouldn't they have noted it Laura thought maybe it wasn't a big deal to them it's such a small detail it's not a small detail it's not a small Detail no it's not because they're saying that's where the 236 call comes from is that pay phone at Best Buy yeah I don't know why they wouldn't check it but there's no pay phone there man you're sure there's I'm [Music] positive so that's thing one thing two I learned it also relates to this 236 call I talked to a woman named Summer she went to Woodland she's been listening to the podcast and she emailed me because when she heard this one part she said she started shaking her head she said if the state is saying Haley was dead by 236 it's impossible it's it's impossible I mean like I I mean it's it's just impossible it's it's not there's no way that she was at Best by 23 6 summer was friends with hay not close friends but they had a class together and they joked around and talked summer had a boyfriend who did Sports at woodlon and she wanted an excuse to stay after school too so she could hang around with them hey told her there was an opening for another manager of the boys wrestling team hay was already doing that so summer joined her the day hay disappeared the wrestling team had a match at Randle toown High School summer remembers talking to hey after school in the gym area there the wrestlers were Milling around summer Was preparing the equip they had to load onto the bus and hey came in to say I'm not getting on the bus to the match but I'll see you there and that wasn't welcome news to Summer she needed hay by her side at the match because hay was more experienced at scoring which can be tricky in wrestling if you're new at it you know I was giving her hell because I'm telling her like I don't know what I'm doing you know I needed her because you know we had to take points and things like that and she's like no no no I just have to go and you know pick my little cousin up Summer says it wasn't a quick conversation either you know we used to tease each other she really was hilarious so we would tease each other and you know go back and forth and we were at least talking for at least 10 minutes you you're sure that this is the day because it's the day she didn't show I'm positive I am posit I'm very positive you know I looked for her the whole time at the away game you know I was really pissed because I thought that she you know stood me up hey told Summer she would make her own way to Randle toown high for the match no one but me probably remembers this now but inz Butler Hendrick who worked at the school said hey had told her she was planning to catch the Randle toown bus however inz initially told the cops the opposite so I trust Summer's memory more and summer is clear hay told her she was going to drive herself there summer said this conversation about hay not getting on the bus happened after the last bell and also after the regular school buses had cleared the loop in front of the school she said probably at around 230 2:45 summer says she has no dog in this fight she's got no opinions on adnan's guilt or innocence she just knows what she knows all of the things that I'm you know unclear about or kind of shaky about or I am clear on that 236 would not have been possible for her to even have met him wherever because I know for a fact she was probably with me during that time or at the school during that time summer never talked to the detectives there's no mention of her in their notes but she's not the only person who said they saw hay after school that day Becky saw her right after school Debbie Warren said she talked to Hay too the police not say she saw her at approximately 300 p.m. inside the school near the gym which would match Summer's memory so Laura says no phone booth at Best Buy summer says no way no how hey was at Best Buy at 236 combine that if you want with old information from Asia mlan who says she saw it na around 230 245 at the Woodland Public Library can we all agree that whatever happened to hey probably didn't involve a 236 p.m. call from that phone booth saying come and get me I'm at Best Buy I don't know about you but I'm done considering that it's true this 236 thing if you want to speculate with me here for a second if we suspect there wasn't a phone booth at Best Buy that means the crime maybe didn't happen there Jay's friend Chris said he heard the crime happened in the parking lot of the woodlon public library but I got to say if you think the Best Buy is to public a place to commit a murder you should see the library after school swarming with kids and if the she's dead come and get me call wasn't at 236 maybe it's the next incoming call in the log the 315 call after all no one actually testifies to the 236 timing at trial this comes from the prosecutor's narrative alone the problem is if it is the three 15 call that really messes with Jay's testimony about where they were and what they were doing that afternoon now third piece of new information it's about what happened at not her real name Cathy's apartment that evening of January 13th Kathy remembered Adan getting a call and reacting in an agitated way saying things like what am I going to do what am I going to say they're going to come talk to me you know what am I supposed to say Kathy testified at trial about this call how Adnan was acting panicked I think it's possible that call Cathy overheard was not from a mystery Third Man or co-conspirator but from wait for it Hay's good friend Aisha Pitman to review for a sec Hay's brother called the cops that afternoon officer Scott Adcock arrives from the Baltimore County PD his initial report records the time as 5:12 p.m. Adcock calls Aisha and handed n asking if they've seen hey here's what's new I got an email recently from another friend in that woodlon magnet group Christa saying she'd talked to Aisha that evening of the 13th quote it was around 6: p.m. that night that I talked to Aisha and she was calling around to see if anyone had heard from her unquote her meaning hey so I checked with Aisha and she does remember speaking to Adnan here's what she wrote to meot I do remember speaking with Adnan that evening but but I thought he called me from what I recall it was a super short conversation and he was annoyed that I told the police to check in with him I thought I spoke to him after the police called himquote she said it's possible her memory of who called whom could be mistaken maybe she did call there's definitely no outgoing call to Aisha on ad non cell that day and maybe it was before he'd spoken to the cops not after she can't be sure but that's what she remembers again you've heard this information before but I'm going to review it now there are three calls on the call log around this time that all ping towers near Cathy's apartment 607 609 and 624 the first two calls are for a little less than a minute the third call is the longest 4 minutes 15 seconds that was likely officer Adcock so maybe Aisha called Adan at 6:09 says I just talked to the police and they're going to get in touch with you too Aisha says Adnan was annoyed maybe that's what Kathy interpreted as panicked I think we can all stipulate that Anan was super stoned he told me he had weed in the car and was worried the cops were going to find it if they came to talk to him so imagine for a second that Anan is talking to Aisha and says something like what am I going to do what am I going to say they're going to come talk to me you know what am I supposed to say obviously I can't say for sure this is what happened but if that strange call Kathy remembers was actually Aisha well then for me that rearranges all the pixels in Cathy's memory from suspicious to innocuous if it's true okay now that we're caught up let's go back to our regularly scheduled program this is from a nonc trial are you prepared to make your election yes ma'am and is your election to testify or to remain silent to remain silent thank you do you have any questions about making that election no man that's a nonan not testifying he told me he wanted to but his attorney advised against it not uncommon it's a huge risk to open your client up to cross-examination and impeachment so there he was mute through two trials about five weeks total which is really hard for anyone it was very I mean it man I would say probably the most stressful thing in my life you know we kind was C say to said going through a trial but more so sitting there for so long for so many days and weeks knowing of this jury sitting there looking at me and ultimately they're going to be the ones to make the decision you know I got to sit up straight I mean it was it was like a a trial within the trial in a sense you know what I mean that was really the struggle right there and there were sometimes where it was just so unbelievable what was being said I used to just look down I would just literally just be like scribbling on a piece of paper like acting like I was taking notes I just I didn't know what else to do and it was going on for so long it's just so frustrating because you want to keep interrupting and saying hold on but that's not true that's not the reason why I got a phone I didn't make that phone call that's not you you know me telling my parents I'm going to somewhere but I'm going to the club that doesn't mean that you know uh uh it's indicative of my desire to commit murder or something but you just you never get a chance to speak you never get a chance to say anything it's just the most frustrating thing in the world I want to let a non talk now not so much about what happened the day of the crime I feel like we've been over that already but just about what it was like to be him throughout this case what it's like now to be locked up for so long on the night of February 10th 1999 Aisha had broken the terrible news to Christa about ha's body being found Christa then called Anan who ran over to Aisha's she lived very close to Anan and then Christa joined them there Stephanie came over too they all sat there at Aisha's kitchen table crying yeah it was just a complete it was just yeah it was just a complete shock there no way did you know did I and I'm pretty sure they didn't either imagine that you know that you know she would turn up you know murdered and that you know her body would be found so no I never ever consider that I'm pretty sure they didn't even think something bad happened to her we just kind of thought it was some just some explanation you know hey was somewhere you know with her father in California or with her new boy who knows so no lots of people told the cops and also told me that Anan appeared to be in denial when they all first heard what had happened that he said things like it's not her they've got the wrong person all Asian women women look alike when Anan got arrested Christa wrote down a chronology of everything she remembered from the previous 6 weeks here's what she wrote about that night at Aisha's we went inside and Adnan was sitting at the kitchen table crying after a while he said that there had to be a mistake and that hay was still alive because her name was written in Aisha's agenda book he wanted to call detective O'Shea but when he called the prein he wasn't there Adon was upset so I took the phone and talked to the woman and explained that we just wanted to get some information and she said we would have to wait and call homicide in the morning wait wait wait he Adnan called detective OA mhm the the night that we found out that she had been murdered that's right Adan called the Baltimore County Police Department to talk to detective OA to tell him they'd misidentified this girl whoever she was that tidbit has always stayed with me is that something a distraught teenager would do or is that something a killer would do and you the next day went to school and it was you know definite right and you know it was just it was just everyone kept coming up to me hugging me you know it was just so much so many people were like are you okay oh my God what happened it was just I'm not I'm not you know doubting anyone's sincerity you know it was just it was just too much so many people back then and now have talked about adan's reaction to haes death that he was blank or cried in heaving waves or not at all or that he seemed normal or that he hid in the dark room in photography class or stared at a picture of him and hay in Psychology class one teacher said he was tense and unresponsive when she gave him a hug that a tick he had became more pronounced another said he was so sad he was barely functioning the school nurse testified at anan's first trial that she thought he faked a catatonic State she wasn't allowed to testify in the second trial none of Nan's friends saw anything strange in his behavior besides they said it was a strange time for everyone it was terrifying and sad they were all so young how are you supposed to [Music] react interestingly Jim Trum the former homicide detective we hired to review the investigation immediately disregarded every single statement about a nun's reaction in terms of evaluating someone's guilt he said stuff like that is worthless he advised me to do the same just toss it all out he said because it's subjective it's hindsight and also people tend to bend their memories to what they think police want to hear Adnan helped plan a memorial for hay at school they plant a tree for her it's still there in front of the school with a plaque this time for Adan is a blur he says giant events kept coming one after the other he didn't have time to wrestle them into comprehension it kind of it was kind of a struggle to keep doing everything normally you know what I'm saying like life couldn't stop it was just so it was just so many emotions like wondering what how the heck do something like this happen to her and then you just a few weeks then I was arrested the cops came to adnan's house to speak to him on February 26 1999 two days before they'd arrest him they hadn't interviewed Jen or Jay yet there was a report in their files about that meeting which oddly is dated September 14th almost 7 months after the fact I don't know why detectives Ritz and mcgil come to adan's house and ask about hey quote when asked if Sayed had a relationship with Heyman Lee Sayed replied in a soft voice yes however he didn't want his father to know they sat there you know they sat that both of them sat at the couch my father and I sat next to each other they asked me a few questions and that's actually what I was worried about was upsetting him that if you were to say what is the thing I was worried about the most it would be upsetting him there was no inlin in my mind you know it was like I'm worried about you may as well say you know the leak in the living room but there's an earthquake coming in the next two minutes but I'm worried about my father being upset about all of this and my mother as opposed to I had no idea whatsoever that just you know this murder charge was going to be coming even even after that conversation with your where your dad was there you didn't think like uh oh not at all not for I understood they were asking questions about me but not that they actually thought that I killed he I never not one time thought that they actually believe that I killed he I think any adult anyone who who had like a sense of understanding could see the predicament that I was in that oh man now the police are going to harass you because you're the ex-boyfriend like if it was me talking to 17-year-old Adnan I was like heyan you're an idiot you do know they're going to come after you now unless they find who did it because you're the most recent ex-boyfriend mhm so I can completely understand why you would ask me that but to be that person and to have absolutely no ill will towards ha how anyone could um much less the police could assume that it had something to do with it very early in the morning on February 28th after they've spoken to Jay after Jay has shown them where Hay's car was parked off Edgewood Road the detectives come into adan's bedroom and wake him up tell him to put some clothes on it's time to go he dresses sees his mother is watching his older brother his little brother Yousef is crying then they drive Adan into the city to an interrogation room in homicide and handcuff him to what he describes as a little hook in the wall the one detective uh his name was M mcil he one thing that he stated was that you know hey man you know I don't condone what you did but I have an ex-wife or you know I just went through a divorce or something I could understand how you can get mad this by the way is what Jim Trum calls offering a theme you give the suspect an explanation one that minimizes the crime as a starting point M gillary was being more so aggressive with me okay we know what you did and Ritz was kind of more so like at some point I think he said man you know it would help out a lot if you just tell us what you did you I said well you know I was never met that hey what are you guys talking about I didn't do anything to her and he did mention that well n we know we got your boots we're going to process your car um and at some point he did mention some red gloves you know we're going to find those red gloves or something Anan says the detectives left the room for a while then came back and when they came back they had them the Metro crime stopper it was a picture like a reward paper it was a picture of hey and at some point they said like we we'll leave you alone with this you know you just look at hey you just look at this so I'm looking at it you know but I'm still thinking like you know this is just kind of like you know like a scare tactic they're trying to scare me to see well is there something that I know what am I going to say but still thinking that you know once this is over I'm going to leave and they both came in again and that's why they they slid the paper to me and it slid on top of of the Metro crime stopper bulletin and that's where it said you know it had the Seal of Baltimore city in the top leftand corner and it said uh charge a document or a statement of charges and it said a non uh did willfully premeditated and with malice or forethought or or deliberately uh murder or kill Hayman Lee on such and such day and it said uh punishable by you know first be murder in state of is punishable by the death penalty so it said death penalty you know and uh so that's when they said you know you're being charged with Haley's murder at this point Adan asked for a lawyer he says he was thinking of Matlock he says the detective stopped questioning him they got ready to leave the room again keep in mind Adan was 17 years old well before they left I said well what's going to happen now you know you know in my mind I'm thinking like you know uh you know not going home and I said to him I said um I don't remember either I thought it or I said it that man what's in my mind is like sh I got to finish this I still got to finish this report you know I have to give this report on Mondays he had an annotated bibliography doing his English class he said Bill Ritz tried to make a nun situation plain to him the last thing I can remember him saying is God you're not going home and did you get it you didn't think he you didn't think he meant you're you're never going home you know you have to I mean it's probably it's impossible for you or anyone else who hasn't just understand to be a 17-year-old kid in this situation with no experience with with the system no experience with any of this stuff it's very difficult to believe in the early stages that this is actually what's happening this must be just some huge mistake no just you know it just there was no way there was no way in my mind that this was going to continue often when Adan tells stories about this time he zeros in on some small moment when someone was kind to him there was someone in playing Co he stuck in his head in the door and he said hey man just have faith and to me it came across as like a like a I don't know like an encouragement oh he wasn't saying it like to taunt me or anything to me it came across as a being something like encouragement or some advisement that's it that's the whole story but he's mentioned this guy to me multiple times also the white lady who was driving the cruiser that took him downtown she was polite there was the sheriff's deputy who looked like Jed hirsh who slipped him a candy bar the eighth grade teacher whose name he can't remember who wrote him that nice letter I can imagine how you'd seiz these kindnesses and that they' Nestle into your brain [Music] forever um now these I obviously I need to hold on to but this is uh junior prom pictures last spring Dana and I went to Christa's house Christa was good friends with and and naan she was Christen Myers back then she dug out a trove of photos and yearbook stuff and letters Kristen Nan wrote to each other during his first year in jail through his trial she visited him frequently when he was in prison in Jessup Maryland much closer than where he is now in Cumberland Christa is cleare eyed organized and thoughtful Hay's death was the defining event of her youth it messed with her as did ad Nan's arrest and conviction she's not in the Robia Camp of 100% there's no way in the world did this she's more if he did it then I don't understand human beings because the guy I knew Etc so if just he's a normal kind person do you know what I mean like these aren't letters from somebody that's malicious or just trying to sway you to believe him it's somebody that genuinely in my opinion cares about people um trying to make the best of a bad situation here's the guy she knew June 2nd 199 99 did you get that really expensive prom dress you wanted and who'd you go with if you don't mind me asking smiley face he asks how things are going with Andy they'd been having problems he tells her stories about jail June 8th quote you should send me some pictures we're allowed to get them man some guys in here get some really dirty pictures I mean dirty let me put it to you like this I've seen more than I'd wanted to of a lot of people's wives or girlfriends to last a lifetime and while most guys are really protective of their pictures someone's always pulling me a to show me their latest flick it's really kind of disgusting he mentions he's gotten letters from other kids from school Laura Jawan Justin Asia Aaron that's all he says about Asia by the way he doesn't seem to attach any importance to her letters or note that she's a potential Alibi maybe because he doesn't know the state's timeline for the murder yet Anan was in with the juvenile population when he was first arrested in February in may he turned 18 and then moved over to be with the adults I'd assume that would be awful in Myriad ways but Anan writes this to Christa it's weird when I first came here I didn't know what the heck was going on let me tell you it was pretty bad but I don't mean physically like no one was trying to beat me up or anything people didn't know what to think of me I mean first of all everyone in here is black and always threatening to beat the hell out of someone else and then you have me light-skinned and quiet I didn't say much to anyone no one said much to me 4 months later I can be anywhere in the entire jail it's huge and someone will call Ed people say what's up to me ask how things are and I don't even know them the strange thing is so many people come to me saying if anyone bothers you let me know that there's no one left to bother me some of it is due to the fact that I'm a Muslim and a lot is due to my personality you know I've been blessed in that I can make friends almost anywhere I go now I can really say anywhere he tells her he's gotten elected to inmate counsil you can see how Adan initially thinks this is all temporary I'll be out by graduation Maybe by summer Maybe by whenever it fades a little more the closer he gets to trial Christo would testify for the state at trial she's the one who talked about hearing him ask hay for a ride that afternoon which Adan said he didn't do but he doesn't hold it against her he's so sweet to Christen these letters asks about the dental work she got done how her little sister's doing how her mother's doing whether her car got fixed he talks about his feelings they discuss religion and God their problems Christa's parents were divorcing they're intimate friends who trust each other the most striking letters to me were the ones he wrote to her immediately before and after his sentencing he didn't end up facing the death penalty by the way the first one he writes it while he's in What's called the bullpen waiting to be sentenced it's got a cutout from a magazine staple to it of an Asian young woman smiling what's this Christa that's actually not hey oh it looks like her so he found this in a magazine and said that it this girl looked like he found this in a magazine and it looked so much like hey does it look like her to you yes oh yeah quote you know what's really weird I was looking through this Jet magazine in case you didn't know it features African-American issues smiley face unquote he tells Christa that hey had been appearing in his dreams that dreams like this have a certain significance in its long but that anyway he's looking through this Jet magazine and he does a double take because the girl looks so much like hay even her watch looks like ha's watch take a look at it and tell me what you think I hope I'm not going crazy unquote I found this perplexing he seems relaxed in the letter this is a kid who is about to be sentenced to life in prison he knows that's what's about to happen it's the mandatory sentence for his conviction and that conviction of course was for killing hey Christa's good friend and in this pregant life-changing moment he's writing a letter to Christa about whether a photo he saw while flipping through a magazine looks like hey is it too nonchalant or something is it creepy thean explains several things about this first he wasn't especially nervous right then that was about to change but at that point he says he was thinking of his sentencing as a procedure he needed to get through so he could immediately start the appeals process so in a way it was a step toward the thing he wanted second it's not like transport you from your cell right to the courtroom door and you're just outside straightening your tie before your big moment it's kind of the opposite there's an enormous quoti of utter boredom and exhaustion built in so you do other things read write letters whatever you can it would be hard to understand like you spent hours sitting in bullpens Waiting you know so it's like like you just if you get up at 3:00 in the morning then you like go downstairs in like the basement of the jail you're just sitting in the Bullpen it's basically like just a square room with like a concrete it's like a concrete bench built into the wall that goes around and it's probably anywhere from like 50 to 100 people so everyone's just sitting there and you might sit there till like set for four hours then you go to the court then you sit for like another four or five hours until you go to court at like maybe 10 11 o'clock in the morning so after like after doing this for so long it's just like it it's just like it numbs the mind so I mean I know people who've actually took and plead deals just to not have to go to court anymore oh really you know what I mean like no I mean honestly like not even exaggerate the third thing is that Christa was the only person he was in regular touch with who knew hay and Christa didn't think that Adan had killed her you know so I can talk to her about hey it's not going to be like you know uh like I mean she just she she accepted me you know she accepted me and I could talk to her about anything or write her about anything and uh so a lot of times that's what it would be 8 Days Later post sentencing he writes Christa another letter and he's so Changed by this time he' fired Christina Gutierrez over the Asia letters and he's being represented by a public defender he doesn't really know Adan tells the guy he wants to tell the court he did not kill hay and that he's going to continue to fight this to the end that's what he says in his letter to Christa and the guy says no no no terrible idea don't say you're innocent it'll anger the judge Adan argues with him and according to Adnan the lawyer says well you can do it if you want but you're just going to [ __ ] yourself over so now Adnan is worried and then another thing he hadn't anticipated that ha's mother was going to speak she'd been to the trial every day I think sometimes I glimpsed her in the videos keeping perfectly still or doubled over or holding on to someone there's more than one bench Conference during the trial in which they talk about her mother's crying being a possible distraction to the jury her pain throughout must have been abject on this day through a translator ha's mother speaks she tells the court about her daughter she tells the court about a Korean proverb that says when parents die they're buried in the ground but when a child dies you bury the child in your heart quote when I die when I die my daughter will die with me as long as I live my daughter is buried in my heart I don't know where to hear her voice I don't know where to touch her hand I would like to forgive Adan Sayed but as of now I just don't know how to do that and I just cannot do that right now for many many months we tried to contact ha's family to tell them we were doing the story and in hopes they might want to talk to us about hey in my 20 plus years of reporting I've never tried as hard to find anyone letters in English and in Korean phone calls social media friends of friends of friends two private detectives Korean speaking researchers people knocking on doors in three different states calls to South Korea we never heard back from I learned a few days ago that they know what we're doing my best guess is they want no part of it which I respect about hey I can tell you only what I've heard from non-family members that she was cheerful and light and funny that she loved the movie Titanic that she sometimes put nail polish on just so she could pick it off she wasn't insecure seemingly ever Sprite was her favorite soda the Dallas Cowboys her favorite team not because she cared about football but because she liked the colors blue and Sil silver that she could charm you without trying that she was a good friend to her friends she took in their problems and their pain and tried to help them if she [Music] could at the sentencing listening to ha's mother that was the first time a nun understood how people on Hayes side of the courtroom saw him he'd never felt hated before in his June 14th 2000 letter to Christa he writes quote on the one hand I feel her pain cuz I cared about hay and how sad she is but on the other I'm thinking please believe me I didn't kill your daughter she was sitting right next to me and it was really sad but I couldn't help thinking that my mom is going through the exact same thing she's going to lose her son forever afterwards I was thinking my God No One Believes In Me Christa I could never explain how that felt adan's attorney then addresses the court quote your honor I would ask that this honorable court if it would consider this case more a crime of passion than of intent to kill unquote from anan's letter that's all I heard him say and I turned and just stared at him wanting to hit him with a chair or something I mean this jerk is going to get up and give away the only thing I have my innocence unquote when it's a Nan's turn to speak he suddenly realizes he has no idea what to say he'd had his plan but now quote on the other hand I'm thinking about what the lawyer said about the judge getting upset on the third hand I'm thinking man man I should just apologize for everything even though I didn't kill hay stupid me I end up doing a little of each unquote it's true when his moment comes he maintains his innocence he asks for the mercy of the court and he says quote I'm just sorry for all the pain that this has caused everyone the judge Wanda heard disagreed with a nuns attorney at sentencing we know this because she said I disagree with you councel this wasn't a crime of passion she said to a nun you planned ite you used that intellect you used that physical strength you used that charismatic ability of yours that made you the president or the what was it the king or the prince of your prom you used that to manipulate people and even today I think you continue to manipulate even those that love you as you did to the victim you manipulated her to go with you to her [Music] death [Music] once early on I asked Edan if you're saying you're innocent why aren't you bitter and angry why do you sound so calm and he said a lot of things then and since because there's no one answer part of it he says is that he realizes how lucky he is compared to so many other guys inside his family visits he calls them all the time they send him money he's got people like Robbie and sad pulling for him quote I refuse to be miserable he said to me being religious helps which you hear all the time about people in prison but I never thought about it too much before I got to know Adan when he ended up in prison he says he made a choice to be a better Muslim now he can say that for nearly half his life he's lived like he's supposed to he knows it's a rationalization of his situation but it's been the most helpful one finally he says he's got a clear conscience because he didn't kill hay though once he did say to me I'm here because of my own stupid actions I asked what he meant well I mean because at the end of the day man I mean who can I I mean I never should have let someone hold my car I never should have let someone hold my phone you know I never should have been friends with these with people you know who I mean I don't who else can I blame but myself well you could blame Jay if you think he's lying I mean yeah but I mean him the police the prosecutors but I mean I mean sure what happened to me happened to me I had nothing to do with this right but at the end of the day I have to take some responsibility you know what I mean you don't really know the things that my younger brother went through you know um what my family goes through you know and uh I mean at the end of the day if I had been you know like a just like a good Muslim you know what I mean someone who didn't do any of these things you know what I mean then uh it's yeah so it's something that really weighs heavily on I mean I'm not you know no way I had absolutely nothing to do with Hayes murder but I mean at the end of the day you know it's uh I can't [Music] yeah a prosecutor I was talking to said of course Anan can't ever admit to this crime after all his parents have been through the fear and the money and the anguish how could he ever turn around and say to them I did it Adan took issue with that the two most important people in the world to be my mother and father and I know the thing that bothers them the most is not necessarily me being in prison but it's that it's in Injustice you know you can accept bad things happening when they're when they're earned you know the irony of it is is that my father and mother would probably sleep better at night you know if I had truly done this and I told them the reason why I'm in prison is because I've done this you understand what I'm saying so it's like okay he's there because he deserves to be there we still love him we're still going to take care of him we're still going to make you know you know he's our son but at least we don't have that feeling anymore that he's somewhere where he you know he doesn't deserve to be right you know what I mean because they they don't necessarily worry about me being in prison because you know they come to see me and they see me that I'm fine you know what I mean I'm fine I'm healthy you know whenever they come visit me I'm a good spirits and everything like that so know for the prosecutor to say that the reason why I can't is because I can't look these people in the face that you know the the the contradiction in that is it would actually be easier for them to deal with me being in prison if they knew that I deserved to be here I can't say what would truly be easier for his family knowing their son had murdered someone or feeling as if he's been taken from them unjustly but it is true that Anan has always been fine in prison he's adaptable he pointed out to me that he'd never been independent anyway first award of his parents then Award of the state he spent the initial part of his sentence at a prison in Jessup about a 30-minute drive for his family it was a looser place than where he is now at North Branch in Cumberland a Maximum Security Prison more than two hours away from Baltimore the prisons that I've been in have been like they're fairly like corrupt places so they're not really strict in a sense where you know it's like oh you got to do this at this time you got to do this at that time maybe corrupt isn't the right word but maybe it actually is and Jessup especially people got away with all kinds of craziness that prison's closed now anan's only had one infraction his entire time which a guy the docc told me was impressive for anyone after I asked about his prison record Anan sent me a stack of copies 21 different certificates and awards for completing this program or helping with that activity in 2005 he got one called the distinguished gentleman's award for your consistent display of character mannerism self-control and ability to manage adversity signed by the warden adan's one infraction was for having a cell phone which he had for 5 years actually he had a couple of different cell phones a new one he got he couldn't figure out how to make it work so mind you I still have my first phone so I call customer service and I'm talking to the T-Mobile lady and she's like walking me through the phone she's like oh it doesn't work you just take it to your T-Mobile store I'm like well I can't um situation isn't really conducent for me to go to the T-Mobile store right she's like no no just take it oh thanks lot she's like all right bye sweetie it's like old I'm like all right cool at Jessa ban had a good job he was a clerk in the chaplain's office which gave him access to a computer and to a printer and copier being an entrepreneurial sort he ran a couple of side businesses printing stuff and making copies for people at North Branch he's a cook he told me the only jobs at North Branch are either kitchen jobs or custodial jobs he's got a group of friends he's close with guys who came into the system the same time he did they have a little Breakfast Club which he's in charge of another guy does lunch membership has its privileges today I made these omelets with like caramelized apples in them and onions they were really good and cheese on the inside and then I made some uh banana French toast also hot cereal with peaches and raisins for lunch cheese steaks the other 1500 guys they cook for got the normal menu boiled eggs and baloney Anan lives in a Cell by himself he's got TV and if he's getting in fights or seeing horrible things he's not telling me about it all all the stuff he tells me about is at worst PG-13 he told me I have a life it's not the life I planned or imagined but I have a life despite the Nisha call despite the leak and park cell tower evidence despite Jay knowing where ha's car was I confess to having Reasonable Doubt about whether Adan killed hay I'm not talking about the courtroom kind I'm talking about the normal person kind obviously a trial isn't built to hold the stories Adan or anyone tells about his life so his lawyer Christina Gutierrez had to figure out another way to encourage Reasonable Doubt Why didn't it work next time on [Music] cal cal is produced by Julie Snyder Dana chibis and me Emily Conan is our production and operations manager irog glass is our editorial adviser editorial help week from Nancy Updike and Joel level help on all things Financial from Seth Lind factchecking by Michelle Harris administrative support from Elise bergerson our score is by Mark Phillips who also mixed the episode our theme song is by Nick thorburn who also provided additional scoring special thanks today to Jonathan Goldstein Paul Mardell from The Baltimore Sun H jul Lee Martha Kang Young Chang Blake Morrison and Bob versus our website where you can listen to all our episodes and find photos letters and other documents from the case and sign sign up for our weekly emails serialpodcast.org support for seral comes from rocket mortgage by quick and Loans lift the burden of getting a home loan with rocket mortgage and get a secure transparent home loan approval in minutes skip the bank skip the waiting and go completely online at quick and loans.com seral seral is a production of This American Life and WBEZ Chicago chicagoooo hgo hgo hgo hgo hgo

support for seral comes from rocket mortgage by quick and Loans when it comes to the big decision of choosing a mortgage lender work with one that aims to protect your best interests with rocket mortgage you'll get a transparent online process that allows you to make an informed decision skip the bank skip the waiting and go completely online at quickin loans.com seral Equal Housing lender licens in all 50 states nmls consumer access.org number 303 zero previously on seral why would you admit to doing something that drastic if you hadn't done it the mechanics the documentation the steps that they took they look good why would you not get up there and defend yourself you know it's your face to face he's right there he's a person and so you know it sounds believable this is a Global ta link prepaid call from say an inmate at from Maryland correctional [Music] facility from This American Life in WBEZ Chicago it's serial one story told week by week I'm Sarah kanig before we get to today's episode where I'm going to let Adan talk for a while I want to run by you some new information I've learned in the past week three things I've learned first remember Laura the former Laura Estrada Sandoval the one who asked well then who the [ __ ] did it in the last episode she was friends with Stephanie and with Jay and with Adnan I was talking to Laura on the phone the other day and she mentioned something about Best Buy and so I asked her if I could start taping tell me tell me again what you just told me there's no there was never any phones at Best Buy there were never any phones around the Best Buy no pay phone no no phone booth no no that's like blank there's no phones there the pay phone in question is important because Jay tells the detectives that Anan called him on January 13th 1999 and told Jay he' killed hay quote come and get me I'm at Best Buy when Jay gets there he says he sees ad Nan standing by the phone booth wearing red gloves he draws a map for the cops showing the location of the phone booth and if you're facing the front doors of the store his drawing shows the booth on the left outside on the sidewalk we did a lot of research on this where it was whether it was and we could not account for this phone booth Laura said that's because it never was she said the only conceivable place for a phone at the Best Buy would have been inside in the foyer part of the store but there was no phone there either Laura says she knows this because she used to go to that Best Buy a lot from the time it opened through 98 into '99 with her family and without her family and I used to you know I don't know steal CDs from there all the time so I was pretty aware of like what was around you're saying you would shoplift CDs yeah sorry but um I don't have the CDs um what so you're saying you would have noticed a thing like that because you were kind of yeah because you're kind of like paying attention like you go in and like you kind of are more aware of your surroundings than just walking into the store you know at the time I remember up in the ceiling and seeing if there was any eyes in the skies any cameras you know and you know there's a whole method but you were very you very aware of like entering and who was like who was there at the entrance and when you're leaving you know cuz you're like I can stealing and man there's no phones there Laura and I hypothesized why if there really wasn't a phone booth how could the cops have missed a detail like that wouldn't they have noted it Laura thought maybe it wasn't a big deal to them it's such a small detail it's not a small detail it's not a small Detail no it's not because they're saying that's where the 236 call comes from is that pay phone at Best Buy yeah I don't know why they wouldn't check it but there's no pay phone there man you're sure there's I'm [Music] positive so that's thing one thing two I learned it also relates to this 236 call I talked to a woman named Summer she went to Woodland she's been listening to the podcast and she emailed me because when she heard this one part she said she started shaking her head she said if the state is saying Haley was dead by 236 it's impossible it's it's impossible I mean like I I mean it's it's just impossible it's it's not there's no way that she was at Best by 23 6 summer was friends with hay not close friends but they had a class together and they joked around and talked summer had a boyfriend who did Sports at woodlon and she wanted an excuse to stay after school too so she could hang around with them hey told her there was an opening for another manager of the boys wrestling team hay was already doing that so summer joined her the day hay disappeared the wrestling team had a match at Randle toown High School summer remembers talking to hey after school in the gym area there the wrestlers were Milling around summer Was preparing the equip they had to load onto the bus and hey came in to say I'm not getting on the bus to the match but I'll see you there and that wasn't welcome news to Summer she needed hay by her side at the match because hay was more experienced at scoring which can be tricky in wrestling if you're new at it you know I was giving her hell because I'm telling her like I don't know what I'm doing you know I needed her because you know we had to take points and things like that and she's like no no no I just have to go and you know pick my little cousin up Summer says it wasn't a quick conversation either you know we used to tease each other she really was hilarious so we would tease each other and you know go back and forth and we were at least talking for at least 10 minutes you you're sure that this is the day because it's the day she didn't show I'm positive I am posit I'm very positive you know I looked for her the whole time at the away game you know I was really pissed because I thought that she you know stood me up hey told Summer she would make her own way to Randle toown high for the match no one but me probably remembers this now but inz Butler Hendrick who worked at the school said hey had told her she was planning to catch the Randle toown bus however inz initially told the cops the opposite so I trust Summer's memory more and summer is clear hay told her she was going to drive herself there summer said this conversation about hay not getting on the bus happened after the last bell and also after the regular school buses had cleared the loop in front of the school she said probably at around 230 2:45 summer says she has no dog in this fight she's got no opinions on adnan's guilt or innocence she just knows what she knows all of the things that I'm you know unclear about or kind of shaky about or I am clear on that 236 would not have been possible for her to even have met him wherever because I know for a fact she was probably with me during that time or at the school during that time summer never talked to the detectives there's no mention of her in their notes but she's not the only person who said they saw hay after school that day Becky saw her right after school Debbie Warren said she talked to Hay too the police not say she saw her at approximately 300 p.m. inside the school near the gym which would match Summer's memory so Laura says no phone booth at Best Buy summer says no way no how hey was at Best Buy at 236 combine that if you want with old information from Asia mlan who says she saw it na around 230 245 at the Woodland Public Library can we all agree that whatever happened to hey probably didn't involve a 236 p.m. call from that phone booth saying come and get me I'm at Best Buy I don't know about you but I'm done considering that it's true this 236 thing if you want to speculate with me here for a second if we suspect there wasn't a phone booth at Best Buy that means the crime maybe didn't happen there Jay's friend Chris said he heard the crime happened in the parking lot of the woodlon public library but I got to say if you think the Best Buy is to public a place to commit a murder you should see the library after school swarming with kids and if the she's dead come and get me call wasn't at 236 maybe it's the next incoming call in the log the 315 call after all no one actually testifies to the 236 timing at trial this comes from the prosecutor's narrative alone the problem is if it is the three 15 call that really messes with Jay's testimony about where they were and what they were doing that afternoon now third piece of new information it's about what happened at not her real name Cathy's apartment that evening of January 13th Kathy remembered Adan getting a call and reacting in an agitated way saying things like what am I going to do what am I going to say they're going to come talk to me you know what am I supposed to say Kathy testified at trial about this call how Adnan was acting panicked I think it's possible that call Cathy overheard was not from a mystery Third Man or co-conspirator but from wait for it Hay's good friend Aisha Pitman to review for a sec Hay's brother called the cops that afternoon officer Scott Adcock arrives from the Baltimore County PD his initial report records the time as 5:12 p.m. Adcock calls Aisha and handed n asking if they've seen hey here's what's new I got an email recently from another friend in that woodlon magnet group Christa saying she'd talked to Aisha that evening of the 13th quote it was around 6: p.m. that night that I talked to Aisha and she was calling around to see if anyone had heard from her unquote her meaning hey so I checked with Aisha and she does remember speaking to Adnan here's what she wrote to meot I do remember speaking with Adnan that evening but but I thought he called me from what I recall it was a super short conversation and he was annoyed that I told the police to check in with him I thought I spoke to him after the police called himquote she said it's possible her memory of who called whom could be mistaken maybe she did call there's definitely no outgoing call to Aisha on ad non cell that day and maybe it was before he'd spoken to the cops not after she can't be sure but that's what she remembers again you've heard this information before but I'm going to review it now there are three calls on the call log around this time that all ping towers near Cathy's apartment 607 609 and 624 the first two calls are for a little less than a minute the third call is the longest 4 minutes 15 seconds that was likely officer Adcock so maybe Aisha called Adan at 6:09 says I just talked to the police and they're going to get in touch with you too Aisha says Adnan was annoyed maybe that's what Kathy interpreted as panicked I think we can all stipulate that Anan was super stoned he told me he had weed in the car and was worried the cops were going to find it if they came to talk to him so imagine for a second that Anan is talking to Aisha and says something like what am I going to do what am I going to say they're going to come talk to me you know what am I supposed to say obviously I can't say for sure this is what happened but if that strange call Kathy remembers was actually Aisha well then for me that rearranges all the pixels in Cathy's memory from suspicious to innocuous if it's true okay now that we're caught up let's go back to our regularly scheduled program this is from a nonc trial are you prepared to make your election yes ma'am and is your election to testify or to remain silent to remain silent thank you do you have any questions about making that election no man that's a nonan not testifying he told me he wanted to but his attorney advised against it not uncommon it's a huge risk to open your client up to cross-examination and impeachment so there he was mute through two trials about five weeks total which is really hard for anyone it was very I mean it man I would say probably the most stressful thing in my life you know we kind was C say to said going through a trial but more so sitting there for so long for so many days and weeks knowing of this jury sitting there looking at me and ultimately they're going to be the ones to make the decision you know I got to sit up straight I mean it was it was like a a trial within the trial in a sense you know what I mean that was really the struggle right there and there were sometimes where it was just so unbelievable what was being said I used to just look down I would just literally just be like scribbling on a piece of paper like acting like I was taking notes I just I didn't know what else to do and it was going on for so long it's just so frustrating because you want to keep interrupting and saying hold on but that's not true that's not the reason why I got a phone I didn't make that phone call that's not you you know me telling my parents I'm going to somewhere but I'm going to the club that doesn't mean that you know uh uh it's indicative of my desire to commit murder or something but you just you never get a chance to speak you never get a chance to say anything it's just the most frustrating thing in the world I want to let a non talk now not so much about what happened the day of the crime I feel like we've been over that already but just about what it was like to be him throughout this case what it's like now to be locked up for so long on the night of February 10th 1999 Aisha had broken the terrible news to Christa about ha's body being found Christa then called Anan who ran over to Aisha's she lived very close to Anan and then Christa joined them there Stephanie came over too they all sat there at Aisha's kitchen table crying yeah it was just a complete it was just yeah it was just a complete shock there no way did you know did I and I'm pretty sure they didn't either imagine that you know that you know she would turn up you know murdered and that you know her body would be found so no I never ever consider that I'm pretty sure they didn't even think something bad happened to her we just kind of thought it was some just some explanation you know hey was somewhere you know with her father in California or with her new boy who knows so no lots of people told the cops and also told me that Anan appeared to be in denial when they all first heard what had happened that he said things like it's not her they've got the wrong person all Asian women women look alike when Anan got arrested Christa wrote down a chronology of everything she remembered from the previous 6 weeks here's what she wrote about that night at Aisha's we went inside and Adnan was sitting at the kitchen table crying after a while he said that there had to be a mistake and that hay was still alive because her name was written in Aisha's agenda book he wanted to call detective O'Shea but when he called the prein he wasn't there Adon was upset so I took the phone and talked to the woman and explained that we just wanted to get some information and she said we would have to wait and call homicide in the morning wait wait wait he Adnan called detective OA mhm the the night that we found out that she had been murdered that's right Adan called the Baltimore County Police Department to talk to detective OA to tell him they'd misidentified this girl whoever she was that tidbit has always stayed with me is that something a distraught teenager would do or is that something a killer would do and you the next day went to school and it was you know definite right and you know it was just it was just everyone kept coming up to me hugging me you know it was just so much so many people were like are you okay oh my God what happened it was just I'm not I'm not you know doubting anyone's sincerity you know it was just it was just too much so many people back then and now have talked about adan's reaction to haes death that he was blank or cried in heaving waves or not at all or that he seemed normal or that he hid in the dark room in photography class or stared at a picture of him and hay in Psychology class one teacher said he was tense and unresponsive when she gave him a hug that a tick he had became more pronounced another said he was so sad he was barely functioning the school nurse testified at anan's first trial that she thought he faked a catatonic State she wasn't allowed to testify in the second trial none of Nan's friends saw anything strange in his behavior besides they said it was a strange time for everyone it was terrifying and sad they were all so young how are you supposed to [Music] react interestingly Jim Trum the former homicide detective we hired to review the investigation immediately disregarded every single statement about a nun's reaction in terms of evaluating someone's guilt he said stuff like that is worthless he advised me to do the same just toss it all out he said because it's subjective it's hindsight and also people tend to bend their memories to what they think police want to hear Adnan helped plan a memorial for hay at school they plant a tree for her it's still there in front of the school with a plaque this time for Adan is a blur he says giant events kept coming one after the other he didn't have time to wrestle them into comprehension it kind of it was kind of a struggle to keep doing everything normally you know what I'm saying like life couldn't stop it was just so it was just so many emotions like wondering what how the heck do something like this happen to her and then you just a few weeks then I was arrested the cops came to adnan's house to speak to him on February 26 1999 two days before they'd arrest him they hadn't interviewed Jen or Jay yet there was a report in their files about that meeting which oddly is dated September 14th almost 7 months after the fact I don't know why detectives Ritz and mcgil come to adan's house and ask about hey quote when asked if Sayed had a relationship with Heyman Lee Sayed replied in a soft voice yes however he didn't want his father to know they sat there you know they sat that both of them sat at the couch my father and I sat next to each other they asked me a few questions and that's actually what I was worried about was upsetting him that if you were to say what is the thing I was worried about the most it would be upsetting him there was no inlin in my mind you know it was like I'm worried about you may as well say you know the leak in the living room but there's an earthquake coming in the next two minutes but I'm worried about my father being upset about all of this and my mother as opposed to I had no idea whatsoever that just you know this murder charge was going to be coming even even after that conversation with your where your dad was there you didn't think like uh oh not at all not for I understood they were asking questions about me but not that they actually thought that I killed he I never not one time thought that they actually believe that I killed he I think any adult anyone who who had like a sense of understanding could see the predicament that I was in that oh man now the police are going to harass you because you're the ex-boyfriend like if it was me talking to 17-year-old Adnan I was like heyan you're an idiot you do know they're going to come after you now unless they find who did it because you're the most recent ex-boyfriend mhm so I can completely understand why you would ask me that but to be that person and to have absolutely no ill will towards ha how anyone could um much less the police could assume that it had something to do with it very early in the morning on February 28th after they've spoken to Jay after Jay has shown them where Hay's car was parked off Edgewood Road the detectives come into adan's bedroom and wake him up tell him to put some clothes on it's time to go he dresses sees his mother is watching his older brother his little brother Yousef is crying then they drive Adan into the city to an interrogation room in homicide and handcuff him to what he describes as a little hook in the wall the one detective uh his name was M mcil he one thing that he stated was that you know hey man you know I don't condone what you did but I have an ex-wife or you know I just went through a divorce or something I could understand how you can get mad this by the way is what Jim Trum calls offering a theme you give the suspect an explanation one that minimizes the crime as a starting point M gillary was being more so aggressive with me okay we know what you did and Ritz was kind of more so like at some point I think he said man you know it would help out a lot if you just tell us what you did you I said well you know I was never met that hey what are you guys talking about I didn't do anything to her and he did mention that well n we know we got your boots we're going to process your car um and at some point he did mention some red gloves you know we're going to find those red gloves or something Anan says the detectives left the room for a while then came back and when they came back they had them the Metro crime stopper it was a picture like a reward paper it was a picture of hey and at some point they said like we we'll leave you alone with this you know you just look at hey you just look at this so I'm looking at it you know but I'm still thinking like you know this is just kind of like you know like a scare tactic they're trying to scare me to see well is there something that I know what am I going to say but still thinking that you know once this is over I'm going to leave and they both came in again and that's why they they slid the paper to me and it slid on top of of the Metro crime stopper bulletin and that's where it said you know it had the Seal of Baltimore city in the top leftand corner and it said uh charge a document or a statement of charges and it said a non uh did willfully premeditated and with malice or forethought or or deliberately uh murder or kill Hayman Lee on such and such day and it said uh punishable by you know first be murder in state of is punishable by the death penalty so it said death penalty you know and uh so that's when they said you know you're being charged with Haley's murder at this point Adan asked for a lawyer he says he was thinking of Matlock he says the detective stopped questioning him they got ready to leave the room again keep in mind Adan was 17 years old well before they left I said well what's going to happen now you know you know in my mind I'm thinking like you know uh you know not going home and I said to him I said um I don't remember either I thought it or I said it that man what's in my mind is like sh I got to finish this I still got to finish this report you know I have to give this report on Mondays he had an annotated bibliography doing his English class he said Bill Ritz tried to make a nun situation plain to him the last thing I can remember him saying is God you're not going home and did you get it you didn't think he you didn't think he meant you're you're never going home you know you have to I mean it's probably it's impossible for you or anyone else who hasn't just understand to be a 17-year-old kid in this situation with no experience with with the system no experience with any of this stuff it's very difficult to believe in the early stages that this is actually what's happening this must be just some huge mistake no just you know it just there was no way there was no way in my mind that this was going to continue often when Adan tells stories about this time he zeros in on some small moment when someone was kind to him there was someone in playing Co he stuck in his head in the door and he said hey man just have faith and to me it came across as like a like a I don't know like an encouragement oh he wasn't saying it like to taunt me or anything to me it came across as a being something like encouragement or some advisement that's it that's the whole story but he's mentioned this guy to me multiple times also the white lady who was driving the cruiser that took him downtown she was polite there was the sheriff's deputy who looked like Jed hirsh who slipped him a candy bar the eighth grade teacher whose name he can't remember who wrote him that nice letter I can imagine how you'd seiz these kindnesses and that they' Nestle into your brain [Music] forever um now these I obviously I need to hold on to but this is uh junior prom pictures last spring Dana and I went to Christa's house Christa was good friends with and and naan she was Christen Myers back then she dug out a trove of photos and yearbook stuff and letters Kristen Nan wrote to each other during his first year in jail through his trial she visited him frequently when he was in prison in Jessup Maryland much closer than where he is now in Cumberland Christa is cleare eyed organized and thoughtful Hay's death was the defining event of her youth it messed with her as did ad Nan's arrest and conviction she's not in the Robia Camp of 100% there's no way in the world did this she's more if he did it then I don't understand human beings because the guy I knew Etc so if just he's a normal kind person do you know what I mean like these aren't letters from somebody that's malicious or just trying to sway you to believe him it's somebody that genuinely in my opinion cares about people um trying to make the best of a bad situation here's the guy she knew June 2nd 199 99 did you get that really expensive prom dress you wanted and who'd you go with if you don't mind me asking smiley face he asks how things are going with Andy they'd been having problems he tells her stories about jail June 8th quote you should send me some pictures we're allowed to get them man some guys in here get some really dirty pictures I mean dirty let me put it to you like this I've seen more than I'd wanted to of a lot of people's wives or girlfriends to last a lifetime and while most guys are really protective of their pictures someone's always pulling me a to show me their latest flick it's really kind of disgusting he mentions he's gotten letters from other kids from school Laura Jawan Justin Asia Aaron that's all he says about Asia by the way he doesn't seem to attach any importance to her letters or note that she's a potential Alibi maybe because he doesn't know the state's timeline for the murder yet Anan was in with the juvenile population when he was first arrested in February in may he turned 18 and then moved over to be with the adults I'd assume that would be awful in Myriad ways but Anan writes this to Christa it's weird when I first came here I didn't know what the heck was going on let me tell you it was pretty bad but I don't mean physically like no one was trying to beat me up or anything people didn't know what to think of me I mean first of all everyone in here is black and always threatening to beat the hell out of someone else and then you have me light-skinned and quiet I didn't say much to anyone no one said much to me 4 months later I can be anywhere in the entire jail it's huge and someone will call Ed people say what's up to me ask how things are and I don't even know them the strange thing is so many people come to me saying if anyone bothers you let me know that there's no one left to bother me some of it is due to the fact that I'm a Muslim and a lot is due to my personality you know I've been blessed in that I can make friends almost anywhere I go now I can really say anywhere he tells her he's gotten elected to inmate counsil you can see how Adan initially thinks this is all temporary I'll be out by graduation Maybe by summer Maybe by whenever it fades a little more the closer he gets to trial Christo would testify for the state at trial she's the one who talked about hearing him ask hay for a ride that afternoon which Adan said he didn't do but he doesn't hold it against her he's so sweet to Christen these letters asks about the dental work she got done how her little sister's doing how her mother's doing whether her car got fixed he talks about his feelings they discuss religion and God their problems Christa's parents were divorcing they're intimate friends who trust each other the most striking letters to me were the ones he wrote to her immediately before and after his sentencing he didn't end up facing the death penalty by the way the first one he writes it while he's in What's called the bullpen waiting to be sentenced it's got a cutout from a magazine staple to it of an Asian young woman smiling what's this Christa that's actually not hey oh it looks like her so he found this in a magazine and said that it this girl looked like he found this in a magazine and it looked so much like hey does it look like her to you yes oh yeah quote you know what's really weird I was looking through this Jet magazine in case you didn't know it features African-American issues smiley face unquote he tells Christa that hey had been appearing in his dreams that dreams like this have a certain significance in its long but that anyway he's looking through this Jet magazine and he does a double take because the girl looks so much like hay even her watch looks like ha's watch take a look at it and tell me what you think I hope I'm not going crazy unquote I found this perplexing he seems relaxed in the letter this is a kid who is about to be sentenced to life in prison he knows that's what's about to happen it's the mandatory sentence for his conviction and that conviction of course was for killing hey Christa's good friend and in this pregant life-changing moment he's writing a letter to Christa about whether a photo he saw while flipping through a magazine looks like hey is it too nonchalant or something is it creepy thean explains several things about this first he wasn't especially nervous right then that was about to change but at that point he says he was thinking of his sentencing as a procedure he needed to get through so he could immediately start the appeals process so in a way it was a step toward the thing he wanted second it's not like transport you from your cell right to the courtroom door and you're just outside straightening your tie before your big moment it's kind of the opposite there's an enormous quoti of utter boredom and exhaustion built in so you do other things read write letters whatever you can it would be hard to understand like you spent hours sitting in bullpens Waiting you know so it's like like you just if you get up at 3:00 in the morning then you like go downstairs in like the basement of the jail you're just sitting in the Bullpen it's basically like just a square room with like a concrete it's like a concrete bench built into the wall that goes around and it's probably anywhere from like 50 to 100 people so everyone's just sitting there and you might sit there till like set for four hours then you go to the court then you sit for like another four or five hours until you go to court at like maybe 10 11 o'clock in the morning so after like after doing this for so long it's just like it it's just like it numbs the mind so I mean I know people who've actually took and plead deals just to not have to go to court anymore oh really you know what I mean like no I mean honestly like not even exaggerate the third thing is that Christa was the only person he was in regular touch with who knew hay and Christa didn't think that Adan had killed her you know so I can talk to her about hey it's not going to be like you know uh like I mean she just she she accepted me you know she accepted me and I could talk to her about anything or write her about anything and uh so a lot of times that's what it would be 8 Days Later post sentencing he writes Christa another letter and he's so Changed by this time he' fired Christina Gutierrez over the Asia letters and he's being represented by a public defender he doesn't really know Adan tells the guy he wants to tell the court he did not kill hay and that he's going to continue to fight this to the end that's what he says in his letter to Christa and the guy says no no no terrible idea don't say you're innocent it'll anger the judge Adan argues with him and according to Adnan the lawyer says well you can do it if you want but you're just going to [ __ ] yourself over so now Adnan is worried and then another thing he hadn't anticipated that ha's mother was going to speak she'd been to the trial every day I think sometimes I glimpsed her in the videos keeping perfectly still or doubled over or holding on to someone there's more than one bench Conference during the trial in which they talk about her mother's crying being a possible distraction to the jury her pain throughout must have been abject on this day through a translator ha's mother speaks she tells the court about her daughter she tells the court about a Korean proverb that says when parents die they're buried in the ground but when a child dies you bury the child in your heart quote when I die when I die my daughter will die with me as long as I live my daughter is buried in my heart I don't know where to hear her voice I don't know where to touch her hand I would like to forgive Adan Sayed but as of now I just don't know how to do that and I just cannot do that right now for many many months we tried to contact ha's family to tell them we were doing the story and in hopes they might want to talk to us about hey in my 20 plus years of reporting I've never tried as hard to find anyone letters in English and in Korean phone calls social media friends of friends of friends two private detectives Korean speaking researchers people knocking on doors in three different states calls to South Korea we never heard back from I learned a few days ago that they know what we're doing my best guess is they want no part of it which I respect about hey I can tell you only what I've heard from non-family members that she was cheerful and light and funny that she loved the movie Titanic that she sometimes put nail polish on just so she could pick it off she wasn't insecure seemingly ever Sprite was her favorite soda the Dallas Cowboys her favorite team not because she cared about football but because she liked the colors blue and Sil silver that she could charm you without trying that she was a good friend to her friends she took in their problems and their pain and tried to help them if she [Music] could at the sentencing listening to ha's mother that was the first time a nun understood how people on Hayes side of the courtroom saw him he'd never felt hated before in his June 14th 2000 letter to Christa he writes quote on the one hand I feel her pain cuz I cared about hay and how sad she is but on the other I'm thinking please believe me I didn't kill your daughter she was sitting right next to me and it was really sad but I couldn't help thinking that my mom is going through the exact same thing she's going to lose her son forever afterwards I was thinking my God No One Believes In Me Christa I could never explain how that felt adan's attorney then addresses the court quote your honor I would ask that this honorable court if it would consider this case more a crime of passion than of intent to kill unquote from anan's letter that's all I heard him say and I turned and just stared at him wanting to hit him with a chair or something I mean this jerk is going to get up and give away the only thing I have my innocence unquote when it's a Nan's turn to speak he suddenly realizes he has no idea what to say he'd had his plan but now quote on the other hand I'm thinking about what the lawyer said about the judge getting upset on the third hand I'm thinking man man I should just apologize for everything even though I didn't kill hay stupid me I end up doing a little of each unquote it's true when his moment comes he maintains his innocence he asks for the mercy of the court and he says quote I'm just sorry for all the pain that this has caused everyone the judge Wanda heard disagreed with a nuns attorney at sentencing we know this because she said I disagree with you councel this wasn't a crime of passion she said to a nun you planned ite you used that intellect you used that physical strength you used that charismatic ability of yours that made you the president or the what was it the king or the prince of your prom you used that to manipulate people and even today I think you continue to manipulate even those that love you as you did to the victim you manipulated her to go with you to her [Music] death [Music] once early on I asked Edan if you're saying you're innocent why aren't you bitter and angry why do you sound so calm and he said a lot of things then and since because there's no one answer part of it he says is that he realizes how lucky he is compared to so many other guys inside his family visits he calls them all the time they send him money he's got people like Robbie and sad pulling for him quote I refuse to be miserable he said to me being religious helps which you hear all the time about people in prison but I never thought about it too much before I got to know Adan when he ended up in prison he says he made a choice to be a better Muslim now he can say that for nearly half his life he's lived like he's supposed to he knows it's a rationalization of his situation but it's been the most helpful one finally he says he's got a clear conscience because he didn't kill hay though once he did say to me I'm here because of my own stupid actions I asked what he meant well I mean because at the end of the day man I mean who can I I mean I never should have let someone hold my car I never should have let someone hold my phone you know I never should have been friends with these with people you know who I mean I don't who else can I blame but myself well you could blame Jay if you think he's lying I mean yeah but I mean him the police the prosecutors but I mean I mean sure what happened to me happened to me I had nothing to do with this right but at the end of the day I have to take some responsibility you know what I mean you don't really know the things that my younger brother went through you know um what my family goes through you know and uh I mean at the end of the day if I had been you know like a just like a good Muslim you know what I mean someone who didn't do any of these things you know what I mean then uh it's yeah so it's something that really weighs heavily on I mean I'm not you know no way I had absolutely nothing to do with Hayes murder but I mean at the end of the day you know it's uh I can't [Music] yeah a prosecutor I was talking to said of course Anan can't ever admit to this crime after all his parents have been through the fear and the money and the anguish how could he ever turn around and say to them I did it Adan took issue with that the two most important people in the world to be my mother and father and I know the thing that bothers them the most is not necessarily me being in prison but it's that it's in Injustice you know you can accept bad things happening when they're when they're earned you know the irony of it is is that my father and mother would probably sleep better at night you know if I had truly done this and I told them the reason why I'm in prison is because I've done this you understand what I'm saying so it's like okay he's there because he deserves to be there we still love him we're still going to take care of him we're still going to make you know you know he's our son but at least we don't have that feeling anymore that he's somewhere where he you know he doesn't deserve to be right you know what I mean because they they don't necessarily worry about me being in prison because you know they come to see me and they see me that I'm fine you know what I mean I'm fine I'm healthy you know whenever they come visit me I'm a good spirits and everything like that so know for the prosecutor to say that the reason why I can't is because I can't look these people in the face that you know the the the contradiction in that is it would actually be easier for them to deal with me being in prison if they knew that I deserved to be here I can't say what would truly be easier for his family knowing their son had murdered someone or feeling as if he's been taken from them unjustly but it is true that Anan has always been fine in prison he's adaptable he pointed out to me that he'd never been independent anyway first award of his parents then Award of the state he spent the initial part of his sentence at a prison in Jessup about a 30-minute drive for his family it was a looser place than where he is now at North Branch in Cumberland a Maximum Security Prison more than two hours away from Baltimore the prisons that I've been in have been like they're fairly like corrupt places so they're not really strict in a sense where you know it's like oh you got to do this at this time you got to do this at that time maybe corrupt isn't the right word but maybe it actually is and Jessup especially people got away with all kinds of craziness that prison's closed now anan's only had one infraction his entire time which a guy the docc told me was impressive for anyone after I asked about his prison record Anan sent me a stack of copies 21 different certificates and awards for completing this program or helping with that activity in 2005 he got one called the distinguished gentleman's award for your consistent display of character mannerism self-control and ability to manage adversity signed by the warden adan's one infraction was for having a cell phone which he had for 5 years actually he had a couple of different cell phones a new one he got he couldn't figure out how to make it work so mind you I still have my first phone so I call customer service and I'm talking to the T-Mobile lady and she's like walking me through the phone she's like oh it doesn't work you just take it to your T-Mobile store I'm like well I can't um situation isn't really conducent for me to go to the T-Mobile store right she's like no no just take it oh thanks lot she's like all right bye sweetie it's like old I'm like all right cool at Jessa ban had a good job he was a clerk in the chaplain's office which gave him access to a computer and to a printer and copier being an entrepreneurial sort he ran a couple of side businesses printing stuff and making copies for people at North Branch he's a cook he told me the only jobs at North Branch are either kitchen jobs or custodial jobs he's got a group of friends he's close with guys who came into the system the same time he did they have a little Breakfast Club which he's in charge of another guy does lunch membership has its privileges today I made these omelets with like caramelized apples in them and onions they were really good and cheese on the inside and then I made some uh banana French toast also hot cereal with peaches and raisins for lunch cheese steaks the other 1500 guys they cook for got the normal menu boiled eggs and baloney Anan lives in a Cell by himself he's got TV and if he's getting in fights or seeing horrible things he's not telling me about it all all the stuff he tells me about is at worst PG-13 he told me I have a life it's not the life I planned or imagined but I have a life despite the Nisha call despite the leak and park cell tower evidence despite Jay knowing where ha's car was I confess to having Reasonable Doubt about whether Adan killed hay I'm not talking about the courtroom kind I'm talking about the normal person kind obviously a trial isn't built to hold the stories Adan or anyone tells about his life so his lawyer Christina Gutierrez had to figure out another way to encourage Reasonable Doubt Why didn't it work next time on [Music] cal cal is produced by Julie Snyder Dana chibis and me Emily Conan is our production and operations manager irog glass is our editorial adviser editorial help week from Nancy Updike and Joel level help on all things Financial from Seth Lind factchecking by Michelle Harris administrative support from Elise bergerson our score is by Mark Phillips who also mixed the episode our theme song is by Nick thorburn who also provided additional scoring special thanks today to Jonathan Goldstein Paul Mardell from The Baltimore Sun H jul Lee Martha Kang Young Chang Blake Morrison and Bob versus our website where you can listen to all our episodes and find photos letters and other documents from the case and sign sign up for our weekly emails serialpodcast.org support for seral comes from rocket mortgage by quick and Loans lift the burden of getting a home loan with rocket mortgage and get a secure transparent home loan approval in minutes skip the bank skip the waiting and go completely online at quick and loans.com seral seral is a production of This American Life and WBEZ Chicago chicagoooo hgo hgo hgo hgo hgo

Transcript for:Exploring Adnan Syed's Case in Serial

Transcript for:
Exploring Adnan Syed's Case in Serial