So, welcome Tracy. I am so happy to have you here. And we are going to be talking all things organization. I always thought I was an organized person and then I met you and I'm like, h maybe I'm not so organized, but we'll talk more about that later on. Yeah. First, let's get started. Just give like a quick intro in your own words about who Tracy is. Yes. Oh, that's so interesting. I am an organizing coach and I help people in in their businesses organize their business backends and then I also help people organize their homes and lives and I've done that for 17 years. So that's who I am. I'm in Kansas City and I have four grown kids. And so I'm in this middle before grandkid stage where I'm like, I love it. We're all so free. We have so much fun. I know. I love it. I was watching um or just going through an Instagram the other day and I can't remember who it was, but they were doing an interview about um uh marriages and relationships and when they thrive, when they're the happiest. And the um expert was saying when the kids move out and the dog dies. And it made me laugh because I was like, I can actually have a full discussion about this idea of when the kids move out. But we just lost our dog about a month ago. So I was like, I'm not so sure when the dog dies, but I get the idea of this freedom. So I know what you're talking about, this in between stage. Like I'm excited down the road to have grandkids, but I love this stage now. Yeah, it's so fun. But this stage, the one thing I will say is I thought my house had clutter and busyness when my kids were home and it did. We had five kids. I've talked about this on the podcast before. We live in downtown Toronto, so we don't have, you know, for people who live in the US, um, and they're picturing large houses and talk about his and her sinks and everything. I'm like, it doesn't work like that in downtown Toronto. like very similar to like New York where it's brownstone tall so we don't have a ton of space we had enough space for everybody um but there was always a lot of stuff but because there was a lot of stuff you know the kids had to try to be organized you know only allowed one pair of shoes near the door one this we had certain rules but then I found as they started to move out things started to expand and I think part of it was is for some of them, especially my younger ones, they may be gone for a chunk of time, but all their stuff is still here. And oh, would you mind if we left this stuff or I'm not going to take this to school or I have no room for this or our apartment is so small. So, you know, I had done photo albums for all my kids as they were growing up, one every single year. And I'm like, my idea was, you know, the day they move out, I hand them their 18 albums or however many they are and they're but no, I have five kids times how many albums sitting there. I'm like, I'm never going to get organized. So, it is I feel like this in between stage I decluttered last year and I'm going to have to declutter again because it's almost like there's layers. I think maybe it was also me letting go of things. So that's what I want to talk about. I want to talk about what what is organization all about? How do we do it? And then maybe you can just, you know, pick on me a bit with all my thoughts that I've just thrown out there of Yeah. So we'll go into all of that. All right. Let's start with some basics. Like what are we talking about here? I like to start thinking about what the definition of organizing is. to know what you have and to be able to find it when you need it. No. And so many people super organized then that's just it. So many people all of a sudden are like oh I am kind of organized and like all that pressure comes off that it needs to look like a p a picture on Instagram with decantered clear colorcoded everything with nothing in reality sitting anywhere. And so when we think about that and we think about our home, then we feel like, "Oh, I'm disorganized." But if you know what you have and you can find it when you need it. Yeah. And everyone, if you have a family, they can find it and put it away quickly, then you are an organized person. You You have your stuff organized. I love that. I feel like I just felt the pressure off. Although, when you said that your kids know, I'm like, "Well, the kids are always like, "Well, as long as mom knows. She doesn't know where it is. It's totally lost. But I love that idea. It's true because in my mind, it's always this picture perfect. And like I said, because I live in this big home, like I look at people's offices sometimes and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they're so beautiful, but they got cupboard space and they have counter or people's laundry rooms or each kid has a cubby." I'm like, "We have two closets in our entire house because Oh my goodness. So you you're like probably super organized. because you well I know where everything is but I'm saying like form like these old houses actually I lied we have we have four we have three in our upstairs so three out of our five bedrooms have their own closet and we have one closet on our main floor and then that's it but those places that have all those extra closets they just get stuffed with all extra stuff and it's like more permission to have a space to put things in. So, it doesn't necessarily mean I mean it looks beautiful in the pictures and you imagine that everything is just so minimal and you can see everything and find it. But in reality, all the homes that I've been in over the last 17 years, those just get stuffed with things and then people don't know what's in there. They don't even remember they have it. They just go buy another thing because they don't know where it is. Yeah. So, so organization does not equate to minimalist and beautified Pinterest. No, no. Feels good. That feels so good. Yeah. I mean, I love the I love the You and I have talked. I'm not a super fan of minimalism because of my own nervous system. Um, but I love the idea that okay, just because it doesn't look like Pinterest doesn't mean I'm not organized, right? Yeah. And it could be simpler. And something you had said before we well maybe it was while we had the recording on that the onion you're just peeling back a layer of the onion at a time. And like that thinking about that like I'm just getting a little bit more organized or simplifying a little bit at a time and I still know where things are in each of those stages 80% of the time. And that's another thing like if you if you're someone who can't find something and you automatically go to, oh, I'm a mess. I never can find anything. It happens to everyone. Even the most organized people still have times when they can't find something. So, I like to even think with the organization part of it, if you can find it 80% of the time, you're organized. I love that. I love that. That's great. I always think with the 80% um the school I went to uh in Montreal Miguel University if you got over 80% I think 80 to 85 is a minus and 85 and over was a and I love using that in my life because I'm like if I get over a 80 I'm still an A. So if I'm organized 80% of the time I can still write it off as an A. Yes. Yeah. So there's another layer of freedom right there. Another layer of Okay. Yeah. Okay. So say I love that it's about knowing where it is 80% of the time. But say I'm feeling okay. I don't know where things are and it's not 80% of the time. Where do I start? or like me, I'm ready to peel back another onion layer again and go a little bit deeper and see can I even get a little bit more organized for myself or or minimize things as well. Yeah. Well, I since the very beginning 17 years ago came up with an acronym called spasm. That's the That's the letters. And I'm like, this is embarrassing, but then I'm like, it's kind of memorable. So, I'm I've stuck with it all these years. Yeah. So, there's five steps to organizing that I like to think about. The first one is to sort. And the reason we sort first is so that we know what we have in each of the categories. I mean, I like if you're going to work on paper, go through your whole house. Get all the paper in one spot. Now, you have everything there and then sort it into categories. And you can make up categories as you go. Maybe it's junk mail, maybe it's a bill, maybe it's um super important document, you know, and you just make the categories up as you go. And even if you're thinking of a closet, when you're pulling stuff out or a drawer, you're putting things into categories as you pull it out. That just is one less step than if you dump everything somewhere and then have to sort. So, first step, sort. And you're not making decisions in this step. So, it's easy. You can get started doing it, right? Then the second step is to purge. The P is for purge. And in this step, there's a couple things that are helpful. I like to think of the favorites method where you would choose you're in a single category now. You know, everything that you have, and you're going to choose your favorite thing that you use all the time, the one you go to, and put that because you know you're keeping that. And then there's a little less amount of stuff there. And then you can go through other questions like, could I live without this? Would I go pay full price for this? Um, have I used this? Does it work? Does it feel and look good on me? Or whatever it is. Then you know what you're keeping. So then you assign homes to it. So the A is assign homes. And you're going to, this is a little bit of a puzzle, like in the kitchen, it might be a puzzle like where does this item fit and how often do I use it? Is it accessible? That kind of thing. In this stage, I like to think in zones. Like you might have a baking zone or like in your closet, you keep all of an item together. So you have that or a reading zone. Mhm. So when you're assigning um homes and then set limits. Now the set limit step is the containing step. You're setting a natural limit with a container so that when the container gets full or the shelf or the drawer or whatever, it's it automatically triggers you. Oh, I need to go back through the steps now. The space, this space is full. So, setting limits and and most people start here. They go to Target or wherever and buy containers and they see some cute baskets or a new planner or whatever it is and they go buy that and they think, "This is going to get me organized." So, no, don't do anything. And also, shop your house first before you go buy anything. Oh, that's such a good point. Yes. Yeah. Measure it out. know exactly what size you need now because you know the items that you're having live there and you can label things. That's a great one for the rest of your house to know where things are. Add labels, do all that kind of stuff in that step. And then the final step is to maintain. And that secret is to tie it to things that you already do. During tax season, you can go through papers. During season changes, you can go through your closets. That that type of thing. Right. Right. Oh, I love that spasm. That is a good way to remember it. It is very memorable. Great for the memory. So, as you're going through all the different steps, I was trying to think, okay, where where do I get blocked? And I'm curious to know where do most people get blocked. It's so interesting. I had a conversation with with someone and she was like, well, you know, I mean, the hardest part is to maintain. And I was like, interesting because I think other people's hardest part is the purge to let go. Like what do I keep or let go of? Then the other person might be um assigning homes and setting limits, you know, they might just not know of products that would be helpful or ways to store things that might be helpful. So that might be hard. It's like a spatial thing where maybe they don't know how it could fit into the space that they have. So that that type of thing. So it is so individual. Yeah. And I can see that. That's why I was asking what is there like a goto because for me when you were saying it like the assigning homes that is my challenge where and that's I I have to get creative because the house has like it's limited. Um so assigning homes there's only certain number of places they can go. So get this corner and that corner. For me, it really is the purge. And I'll tell you, the hard part of the purge is one, I look at it and I think like, well, I'm for sure going to use that again. And if I just throw it out now, what a waste. I'm going to have to go back and buy it again. So, I'll just keep it for when I do need it. The second piece is there's usually often memories associated with things. So, I got better when I did decluttered the last time. I just took pictures of stuff that I was like, I'm never going to use this. Just pictures and then I created a file on my phone that said um you know, memories. Um but that is and then also the and I I know this is also nervous system related um the idea of having enough and I've always had a scarcity mindset coming from a scarcity mindset the idea like when you said to me I felt my body just or when you were talking where you said pick your favorite And I'm like, I'm hoping your next sentence is gonna be and then pick your next favorite and then it totally can be your next favorite because for me the idea of having to and I know that's why it's individual. So for me, I probably wouldn't be like I'll pick one thing. I remember listening to somebody, I can't remember who it was, might have been Jodie Moore on her podcast where she said like um you know she just picked has 10 socks and those are the 10 socks that she wears and everything else she got rid of. And I'm like are you crazy? Like 10 socks? I want to have 10 socks. 10 for sport and 10 for Jesse and 10 with these pants and that pants and and then part of it is I know I don't want to have too much but I also want to allow myself to have what I want because I come from scarcity if that kind of makes sense or maybe it's my fear of scarcity that drives me to have the desire to have more. Well, I think it's interesting to think about that before you start organizing, before you start purging because it's totally fine and and it kind of dictates based on the size of your container or your home. How big is your home? What is the space that you have? And do you want to live within your home or go get a storage unit, whatever. But but thinking of that first and then it's total freedom like you get to decide how many socks you want as an example and I love that and when you think of it in advance it makes the decision making easier because then you're like oh yeah I decided I chose someone didn't tell me I should only have 10. I chose I wanted 30 socks. So now as I'm picking my favorites maybe in each category like you said sport and long and fuzzy and whatever and holiday and you know then you know um then you can pick your favorites in each of those categories. In your mind though you've already kind of set a limit like I think 30 is a good number for me. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. And it's funny because socks for you might be the thing, but you only have like two frying pans or whatever. Yeah. Where someone else was like, "Oh, I need 10 frying pans. I need a cast iron. I need this. I need a little omelette one." You know, like they're really picky about that. So, there are, you know, we all have something that we have more than what someone else would think is needed. Yeah. Yeah. Is there ever a time where you're like, "Okay, that is just too many." I would never say that to someone. I don't care what their number is or what they keep or not. The part with me and when I was helping people in their homes, it was more like it's not going to fit in the space that you have or that you wanted to. You can keep that many. But why? What is want why are you wanting to? What where is it coming from? And then if you want it to fit in that space, it's not going to. So then we have to come up with another solution around where it's going to go. Right. Right. What would you say are the benefits for people to get organized? Like what are the aha moments? What what do people afterwards come to you and say after their experience of organizing? It's so much calmer in their mind because they know where things are. So they're not searching and fretting and frustrated because they can't find what they need. That's probably the first thing, the stress level because now they know. I think it's that hanging over them project that they've been needing to do for years, maybe 20 years. Someone said she walked into this space all the time and it was 20 years later she finally did something about it. So for 20 years that's weighing on her that that she needs to go through this. It was a mess. And and so just that lightness, a lot of people kind of describe it as lightness, like I finally did this confidence because they know the steps now and they know they can go through something and make decisions and and um organize it and find it. So those are some of the things. Yeah. No, those are really good and I can see that for myself too. You have that lightness and the um the clarity. Um, is there like an average amount of time that it's good to give yourself to get organized? I think of that because of like Parkinson's law, like the amount of time you give yourself is the amount of time you're going to take. So, do you see that? Is that the same thing when you're trying to organize your home? Like just don't say I'm going to have 20 hours of it. Is there like a a almost a timeline or a structure that you recommend? I would say to think about it like a project like decide the area or so one of my programs organized life academy is a year-long program but it's like divided into monthly focuses and so each month we have a focus on decluttering and organizing a space and so it's you know when you have a project focus there's a a start and end time if you're just going organize your home and it's going to drag on forever and you're going to quit and you're going to be unmotivated. Yeah, I think that's the problem. And so you have to like when I think of a project like and I'm doing 12week years so quarters and I'm thinking it's exciting. It's motivating because I know there's an end to it. I know I have a goal and I'm reaching that goal and I keep with it and I have accountability in place and support that I need to reach that project or to reach that goal. I think that's so much more helpful and motivating than thinking, "Okay, I'm gonna organize my life." Yeah. Yeah. It's like, when does it end? Yeah. I have actually in my in my planner um on my to-do list to choose the weekends that we're going to go through and do a couple of rooms again because I feel like it's that same thing where you notice the container has expanded and now I need to go back to that container. But I know just saying I got to do it, I got to do it. I I'm like I don't want to do it in the summer. So, I need to pick a weekend in the fall or maybe two weekends because I don't want to do full weekends and just do that. So, I can see that being beneficial projectbased. Yes. And you could do little things like when I think about the closet, that's a big area that a lot of people struggle with. I like to break it even down like I'm just going to pull out my tank tops. I'm just going to pull out my jeans and I'm going to sort them into jean, black, white, and I'm going to try every pair on and I'm going to decide. And so within an hour, you have organized a part of your closet. And it's like a boost, mental boost, like I can do this now. You decided where they are. They're neat. You know what you have, you like it, and then you just do like long sleeve shirts the next time you're in the mood to organize or something like that. kind of doing it like that as well where you break it down because the looming entire weekend or whatever might be like you could just do the sports equipment in the garage or the shoes in the garage or something like that too. But I do also like big um transformations kind of like getting it all done at one time too. So just you kind of note how you're a mix Yeah. Yeah. Note how you work best. What would be good for your family? If you keep putting it off because it's a big project, maybe just try taking a little portion of it. Next time you pull in the garage, do a little portion or whatever area. Well, here's where we can transition this conversation because it brought up for me and I know when you and I had worked together because you're helping me organize digitally my business and everything my frame of mind and what I say to myself because as you were saying that you know do the tank tops or do the sports equipment. I'm like oh yeah I do that all the time. I do that on the regular that you know I whenever I do closet switches you know for summer fall or summer winter. Yeah. can't have everything in one closet. I actually had these makeshift ones downstairs. Um, sports equipment we've done. And I was like, "Okay, there it is again." I tell myself, "Oh, I need to have an entire because our house is a disaster. I have to get rid of everything." And then when you say that, I'm just like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did that. I just I and I have a pile that I know I call somebody that we give all our um extra stuff that we no longer want. I have like a whole system and yet my brain loves to say, "Oh, get organized. You're not organized." So interesting. And there's proof again that you are organized, but we're it's like the gap in the game, but we're looking at the gap in this huge stuff we have to do, but yet we're not realizing, oh, look, there's more evidence that you truly are organized. And anytime you want, you could do a little part of it. Yeah. What are some of the mindset challenges that people have? I mean, we can say people. We can just use me as an example because you've worked with me enough to to hear what my mind is spewing out about organization. But what are some of the typical things that people bump up against with their their mind? Well, one of them and I just had her on my podcast. She's in one of my programs, Kristen. And her thought was, I'm messy. And she heard it when she was in in as a kid. Her room was messy. Her mom told her or someone somehow she adopted that thought. And the greatest part of her story is that in her business, in what she does when she plans trips, she's meticulous. Like, she is so neat and tidy. She'd never put the two together. And she never thought to question the thought that she's messy. She thought she didn't deserve an organized home because she's messy. And it was so interesting to hear her talk about it and hear her say, "I never thought to question that." And so a lot of the thoughts that people have come from childhood that they are they just haven't stopped to question because that's who they are. That's their identity. And so I just love finding those. And then there was so much evidence on to to the contrary that she was messy that she could now pull some of that evidence over and it's just so fun to see that transformation take place. Um but yeah, you want yours? I'm so disorganized. I'll never be able to grow this business. That was one of mine that we tackled. Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that. And but yet then after we worked together a little bit, there was so much evidence. And not only evidence from what we did, although I love building that evidence while you're kind of realizing, oh, that thought's not even true, you know, or there's other truth to other things here. But it to build evidence as we go. But then just like you said, oh, I do that all the time. Yeah. And you know, like that the you do projects in your house all the time. Yeah. Well, and I think that it speaks to, you know, I I resonated when you said that your your other client talked about the the messiness because I think part for me is I had equated and this is nervous system. This is experience, excuse me, previous life stuff. Sorry. Okay. So, fix that. get that out there so we don't have to watch that. But I had equated organization with minimalism. Um, not doing too many things, focusing on one thing. And I know where a lot of it came from. I I know that like in my previous marriage it was very very focused on minimalism and where I felt like but this is where we live. And I know that when I was a single mom, one of my big goals with my two young boys at the time um was, you know, let's just leave the toys out because it's fine because we live here. And then we do a tidy every once in a while. But I really had this sense. And then when I remarried, even the like the walls in our home, my husband probably would have wanted more art on the wall and I wanted like photos. And if it was art on our wall, he's an amazing painter. I was like, I want your art on the wall. To me, there is just this need to have it very lived in. So, I don't want like the perfect angles and the perfect I'm fine with having I want the blankets. I want the and my husband like, can we fold the blankets every once in a while? And yes, we can. And I love doing a big tidy and then but for me, it's I want it lived in. And that sort of speaks to this idea of abundance. And then I noticed with my business too, I love having so many ideas. That's part of who I am. My human design manifesting generator if you're into that kind of thing. But I love having so many ideas. And I guess the message sometimes with businesses is pick one thing, keep it simple, go with it. I'm like, I don't want to pick one thing. I've got like seven things. And so I'm telling myself, well, I guess maybe that's just a sacrifice. I'll do the seven things, but I'll never be able to be or successful or anything. And challenging challenging like how I live. I love living in a home that's lived in. Yeah. I love Well, and you can see where that came from. Maybe like where that kind of came from. And I think it's interesting too to think about people like if you're fine with how it is, there's not a problem. Like there's nobody saying, "Oh, you need to get more organized." Yeah. I wouldn't even want people to work on organization if there's not a problem with it. But the problem comes up when you can't find something. Is it so lived in that you can't find what you need? Mhm. Then someone might want to change that. Or do you have so much that you can't get what you need on your computer? Like then you might want to change that or whatever. But yeah, until there's a problem. Yeah. Or or you are frustrated or wasting time or buying duplicates or you know that kind of thing. Mhm. What if you just accepted like that's the way I am and I actually like it and I'm fine. We don't have any problems regarding those other things. It's not affecting us in a negative way. Yeah. So, and that comes down to the thoughts and the mindset about we're all going to have those individual because I know other people it is um and I see this myself actually just in my membership we talked about um years ago I had worked with she was a friend and she was an interior designer and she sort of talked about dividing your homes into red, yellow and green zones and the red zones were kind of these hightra areas where she said. Um, and at that time I was like, "Well, that's pretty much my entire house." She's like, "Well, you have five kids living in downtown Toronto. It likely is going to be your entire house." But this was an area that's just high frequency, lots of stuff going on. The yellow zones where there was like a little bit of um relief there. We could tidy it up. And then the green zone was supposed to be this oasis where I could just walk into and it was zen. And it felt like, huh, well, I didn't really have any green rooms, per se, but she talked about, can you create like some zen areas where it's just yours? And I realized, well, at 1000 p.m. when all the kids are in bed, the bathroom can turn into that green zone because I can set the stage for it. But it did get me thinking of how our environment does send us these cues, and this is what we talked about in the membership, these cues of safety or danger. M but that's going to be different for everybody right like like you may have looking around externally are there things that you do start to feel a little bit more activating and maybe clutter is that or too many things or um pile up but I mean it could be things like lighting it could be lots of other things but I do think it's interesting to look at your space and what signals is it sending to your nervous system because I noticed that I may love being lived in, but there's this area of my house that when I step into it, it feels like it's just a little bit too much. So that's that's sending me those signals of danger. Yeah. Well, I think that too, the zen part, like even walking into my bedroom when my bed is made, just the bed being made feel gives me that feeling. Or when I walk into the kitchen and the counter's clear, like that's what gives me the feeling. Or into the living room and the pillows and blankets are neat. I like, oh, like I just even can feel that. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that's important to recognize because you know I your nervous system is foundational to everything. Yeah. So if your nervous system is sending you those signals and you try to work against it, it's not really going to stick. It's it's not it's going to be much harder to maintain because it's not in alignment with what your true nervous system requires for safety. So, I think it's really looking at how organized do I need to be to feel safe within. Well, and here's what I would be interested to have you speak on this because safety may have always felt I mean, you may have always felt safe needing clutter around you, but what if you live with someone who has a low clutter tolerance and they feel safe with less clutter? I mean, clutter might not be the right word, but and you want to or maybe it doesn't have to do with the other person. It's just like you want to have less stuff so it can all be put away. And then that feeling of safety needs to shift to feel safe in a clut in a decluttered space or a more minimal simplified space. That transition. Yeah. Because I think that's what a lot of people discussion I know and I think that's what decluttering and organizing brings up in a lot of people and you go back to that because you feel safe over here where or you know you have habits of over purchasing stuff and so that's what's happening but there's so much that goes into it like yeah well and when you think about safety like at at the most basic level we're picking up on safety based on the cues around us, you know, neuroscepting. It's external cues. That's only one piece of it. Then there's the internal cues and then there's the relational cues. So, I think we we also have to be careful in thinking that our environment, the space is the only thing that dictates safety, right? It's one factor of it, but other factors are what is going on inside me and what's going on relationally. So I think that's it. If you um say you have two people who are very very counter, well then you've got to be looking at the relational piece of it because you may be getting cues externally. I may be getting different cues externally. But let's talk about relationally. What can we do to come up with something? And that relational conversation, that relational bond can help you increase safety. And I think it also does come down to all right, how can I internally create safety regardless of my environment? Yes. Like that that I think is an important piece too. And it's so interesting that you the relational part. One of my clients has a husband who is very likes to keep things collector. Uh he likes to keep a lot of stuff and she wants him to get rid of a lot of stuff. So, in at our live event, she was getting coached on this and it came out that she is a lot like him. She likes to do a lot of stuff and she's interested in a lot of stuff and he's always telling her you can't do everything. He wants her to do less stuff. It was so fun and it gave her such a beautiful understanding of him and realizing that she's so much like that but in with activities and learning new things. And so because she could identify with that now it's just so fun to see their relationship and he's letting go of a few things and she's saying no to a few things and so that's been fun. I think the relational piece especially in this area is is really important too. But of course relation it always comes back to who are you being in the relationship? How do you create your own safety? How do you how do you learn how to do it for yourself? It doesn't mean you don't need other people. We need other people. We heal in connections. We need to have that connection. But the more we can take care of ourselves, then we can do it relationally and then we can have discussions of what do we want our environment to look like together that's going to support both of us. Yeah. So, I can totally see where if you can create that safety in yourself and you're working on that and you're learning how to do that that then it would be easier to let things go like for sentimental people that say, you know, they're sentimental, all these items are sentimental. it that that would be so helpful that they can now say okay but I can feel safe without that item and some we hadn't talked about too kind of flip that I thought of it earlier when you were sharing the part where we want to keep these things because we might use them I always challenge people to think about okay but we're keeping someone else from using them at this time So, we're we're not and not the word isn't hoarding, but we're keeping it. And then I was like, well, think of the the um I think of Toy Story and I think of the little creatures and the little items and how their life is so boring when they're just sitting in your closet when you could give them out and someone could be using them and they have this adventurous life. And so I'm like, "Oh, it's the other side of it." And they're going to have so much adventure if you would let that go rather than keep it in your attic for 20 years, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's true. And I do think it's easier to let things go the safer you feel with everything. Like it it's it's just easier or or finding ways to capture what it is that that object is bringing you feelingwise, regulation, like all those things. So sometimes it's just a connection to the past or connection to a certain time or feeling and how can you bring that into your life without having the there. That's one of the things she said too was her identity like she got rid of her entire wardrobe like work wardrobe after eight years or eight I don't know eight years that was just her identity. So we have so many of these things that we like wanted to be a painter or you know so we bought all the stuff and then we never did it and so we just think well maybe one day I'll do that. I know it's seeing that there's so many aspects of it in such different levels and deepness to this whole process. And it is organizing is a journey to discover yourself and heal and learn how to feel safe and and understand all of that through the process of organizing. So, and I love, you know, this is a great place to end it. This idea that it's a journey Because I think I've made the mistake before in thinking like, well, I'm just going to declutter my house as if it's going to be a oneanddone thing. Like, no, because we still live. I still develop interest. I still Oh my gosh, like the books and journals because I develop new interests. Like I remember when my kids were all officially gone, the dining room was traditionally our study hall for everybody and they had baskets and in the baskets is where they could keep their um study stuff. So I was like thrilled, amazing getting rid of all these baskets. I don't have all this study stuff and binders. And then I decided um I guess there was a a year maybe where they were completely empty and I went on my journey to create the stationary line. And so what do you need? You need to see what different people are doing and different styles and then integrating all the doodling. So there's these pens and this paper and these paints. So now I have baskets filled with books and doodles. But it's a reminder for myself instead of like labeling that as like oh see I still have clutter. No, it's this idea of we do go through different transitions and there will be that's why you do want to get rid of some things and it's okay if new things come in to replace it because that's what I'm doing right now. And probably eventually at some point maybe that will move on and I'll come back to having no baskets in that area. But but what's so cool is those baskets, you know where your stuff is. Yeah. You have a place for it in a home and you can find it and it's there. That's how organized. There you go. There you go. And it's an ongoing journey. So, I appreciate this so much. Please tell everybody where they can find you. You already mentioned you support businesses and you support life. So, maybe tell a little bit about that and then let people know where they can find you. Yes. My business is called Simplyscared Away. And so simplyscaredway.com is my website. You can find everything on there. And my podcast is the Organized Coach podcast. And yes, I have the Organized Coach Academy, which helps business owners and coaches organize the back end of their business, their time, their files, digital assets, um, and processes. And then organized life academy is a program where we have calls and we declutter and we implement routines in our life and there's a community in there. So whichever is right for you at this time. Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being here and helping us all get a little bit more organized. Thanks, Leah.