Transcript for:
Workshop Summary on App Development

Yeah, I have I have chat on this screen. Yo, what's up? Are we live? Refresh it. It's delayed. It's delayed on YouTube. Yeah, I'd assume so. Subscribe is only subscribe for chat message. Yeah, the haters actually have to subscribe before you guys are allowed to comment. We're live. All right, Chad, if the audio is good and if it messes up, let us know. This is the mic that we're using, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's uh let's get this going. Um, welcome everybody. Today we are going to do a live workshop, live demonstration of how we have built and scaled our apps. Now to address the elephant in the room, we are well aware of all of the criticism that we are receiving on on social media right now. many or a lot of it I do think is reasonable and justified. And yet at the same time, I truly believe in my heart of hearts that this course is going to make many people incredibly wealthy. Even if you don't pay, I'm sure there will be a lot for everybody to learn from this live demonstration and all the free content that we put out in the future as well. Anything I'm missing there? Yeah. No. Solid. Cool. We're just going to be smooth with smooth with this. We're going to roll. We're going to basically teach you guys high level how you can create an app yourself that can print money just like we've done in the past, just like we've helped others do. Hopefully, at least a few of you from this webinar, from this live event, will leave this with the knowledge and insights and actually take action because that's what most people lack. Most people know the info, but they don't take action. If two of you build a successful app that generates over $100,000 after this, that will make this a success for us. Yeah. And another note here, like the purpose of this is not for us to provide just enough information and tease you guys into purchasing what we're selling. We're going to put everything out on the table right now. Um, this is to show you guys and give you essentially a little trial of the content uh that we're going to provide in a longer form, more structured, more nuanced manner in the course. And then of course with the community as well, that is how you get access to a free 30-minute call with any of us as well as the weekly calls that we'll do um and sort of interactive components within the community that we're going to provide to help people as they they scale and build their their apps. Yep. And just generally super excited to see what you guys build. Um you know, the game has never been easier and we're super excited to show you the formula to making a viral app. Should we get into it? Step it up, boys. So, real quick, people are saying the camera's lagging a little bit. Jud, I don't know if you want to look into that. I can see it. I can see it. Yeah, the camera itself is like pretty laggy. Is the audio good to everybody? There is also a while we can use a FaceTime camera. That's not going to be wide enough. Yeah. Might it be too high quality? Chats are at 4K preset. Should we decrease the quality? Make it medium. Yeah, let's try this. Um, and then we'll transform. Flip it. 600 live viewers. Yo, let's get some W's in the chat right now. Yo, Alex, W's in the chat to get started. Move your chair down below. Could you also? So, Connor's more. Yeah, guys, they try to push me out of this thing. You got microphone. Am I going to be heard from over here? They said audio is good. It's just kind of the lag with the camera, but it actually looks like it's moving a little bit better now. Yeah. Yeah. You see that? All right, cool. Okay, cool. Yeah, I think that that's a little bit better. All right, let's get into it. What's up, guys? I'm Zach Yadagari. I'm 18 years old. I am co-founder along with Blake and the CEO of Cali, an app where you can just take a picture of your food and it will tell you the calories. And last month, it generated $3.6 $6 million in revenue. So, we're doing 40 million in annual run rate. Before this, I built an unblocked gaming website called Totally Science, which lets students play games in school unblocked. I started it when I was 14 and made $60,000 a year. And then I sold it when I was 16 years old for $100,000 before getting into the app space. My name is Blake Anderson. Um, I graduated college two years ago. taught myself to code with AI. First app I built was RZ GPT. Within three days of launch, it hit 80K in MR and then just kind of off to the races. That re later became renamed to Plug AI. I built UMAX a few months thereafter and then Cali a little bit after that. In total, my apps do almost 50 million in ARR right now. Um, and yeah, that's me. Amazing. Hey everyone, my name is Alex Slater. Uh, I'm 19 years old. A year ago today, I was dead broke with nothing in my bank account. I followed Zach's formula and I'm now making half a million dollars a month from Quitter. Quitter is an app that helps guys quit pornography. Um, and yeah, that's me. What up, guys? I am Connor, otherwise known as Mac. I am also um a part of Quitter with Alex. We built it roughly a year ago, doing now half million a month. I actually saw myself um viewing Blake's content online and so I reverse engineered what he was up to, built Quitter with Alex. Now here we are. First time I ever spoke to Connor, uh we hop on a call. Quitter had just started kind of hitting and he called me and he goes, "Dude, I saw the podcast that you did with Omar in the woods. That was actually the first piece of really public content I ever did." And he was like, "Man, I saw that and I was like, if that guy can do it, I can [ __ ] do it." And to be honest, like, everyone needs that attitude, guys. Like, you got to have that confidence, self-belief to get [ __ ] done and uh you'll do it. But to be honest, it's the reality of it. And we're going to dive, I think, into case studies very quickly. Um, and so we'll touch a little bit more on on how replicable the strategy is. Um, but in short, as we said at the start of this, by the end of this webinar or workshop, whoa, there we go. You will be able to build and market a mobile app. So, that is the objective. Um, there we go. A lot of people think that what it takes to build a successful app, but even a successful company in general, is that you need to be a certain age. You need to be old enough. My story and Alex should prove that any age can do this. You don't need years of experience in anything to get started. You don't need money. Alex, Blake, and Connor, I mean, you want to tell one of your stories? They were all broke. When I first got started, I literally had $2,000 in my bank account. My brother was giving me loans for groceries. Family was out of money. House was on the market. Um, and yeah, I mean, like, you really don't need cash. Not at all. Alex, what was your story? You were like, you Yeah, like again, a year ago today, I had nothing in my bank account. All I did was look at how other successful apps uh did their marketing, did their product, did their pricing, replicated it towards my own niche, and yeah, ended up being extremely successful. So, I don't think the bottleneck here for many people is cash. I just think it's information, and I think it's insight into what actually works, which is what we hope to provide. And for more clarity on that, I uh I actually decided to give my last $3,000 to Quitter. And Alex was so concerned about what if our partnership didn't work out? Um, how would he pay me back? And I said, "Don't worry about it. It's going to work." Took the last three grand I had living in my parents' basement and um the rest is history. I was in San Francisco with Alex about a year ago and he didn't have enough money to get an Uber home one night or to buy lunch even or to buy lunch. It was ridiculous. And then a few months later whips up quitter. So clearly you don't need money. Intelligence, you really don't need that either. None of us here are geniuses and you can do it. Any anyone can do it. What was your GPA in high school? What was your SAT score? You put me on the spot, huh? Yeah. What was the SAT, bro? My my ACT combined I think was a 30. SAT was like a 1310. Um, which isn't that great. And then my GPA in high school was a 36 and in college was a 32 or something. Alex, did you even graduate high school? Yeah, but we don't have GPA. I don't know what these numbers. I don't know what these numbers mean, but to answer the question, I wasn't extremely smart. I wasn't academically like superior like by any means. Anyone can [ __ ] do it. And then on the basis of time, a lot of people think they don't have enough time to build a company. Maybe they're in school. They're balancing getting good grades with building an app. Maybe they have a job, a 9 to5, they're balancing their work with their app. But we've all done this with massive responsibilities on the side. me in high school. Blake started building apps while in college. You can do it with limited time. Zach leads a company of 30 people while he's in high school. So to anyone that thinks it's not possible, think again. Limiting beliefs. So what what does it really take? Um you know, it's it's classic. It's somewhat of a trope. You just need to try hard, right? But mindset mindset. But that that that's honestly the truth of it. You look at the people in the comments on social media, even in this this comment section during the live, they're like freaking out like, "Oh my god, I can't believe you guys would [ __ ] sell me." And yet they're at $100 MR, right? Like, what's the [ __ ] difference there? Where's the gap? And the reality is that um it's actually simpler than you think. It's really not that difficult. Some people just have these self-limiting beliefs where they see the success of others and they see others putting things into the world and that upsets them. Uh and then on the flip side, you have people that will persevere in spite of difficult circumstances. People that adapt and and and change the their actions according to new new data and new knowledge and then take the time to acquire that knowledge and to inform themsel of of the the the the changing environment. and then once again update their decisions accordingly. And that's exactly what we did when it came to mobile apps. We we we saw the trends. We saw uh the power of AI and the the the degree to which social media can amplify your reach and enable you to hit millions and millions of consumers. And the tech world looked at that and they said, "Oh my god, they're just [ __ ] drop shipping software and blah blah blah blah blah." But we were like, "No, you guys are all just missing out. Like this is the most unbelievable distribution tool. AI enables us to to build amazing functionality products that previously took teams to create, for example, like ML vision models for the sake of scanning your face or your food. Now you can just plug in an API URL. And once again, some people get upset about that. They're like, "This team of three people are making that much money." Technology is powerful. It is. I'm not technical. You want to take this one? Yeah. I mean, a lot of people think you need to be a [ __ ] genius, a CS major to build an app. Well, I've proved in my segment of the course that isn't the case, and I'll get into it later in the development section, but it took me two hours to build a Calai competitor that I can go to market with right now and print thousands of dollars. I used Chat GBT. I interfaced it using English, the English language and it helped me build an application. I didn't need to learn all these fundamental things like MVVM or anything else specifically towards coding. I just asked Chat GT a few questions, help me point help point me in the right direction and now hey got app built. All right, let's uh we can keep doing all these objections, but I feel like what the people really want is for us to get into it. Do you guys want us to get into it? I can see the chat. They're like, "We don't give a [ __ ] about this." All right, you guys down. If you If you guys want us to get into it, type hell yeah. Yeah, type hell yeah in the chat if you guys [ __ ] it. Type [ __ ] yeah. I want to see [ __ ] yes. Also, Blake, make a full screen uh video. Like, you're just talking. Make a full screen scene. Sick. All right. So, the structure of this is we're going to go over the four Ds of viral apps. If you watch my YouTube series, you're probably somewhat familiar with this. This the four Ds are ideation, design, development, distribution. You might say ideation starts with an I. Yes, D is the second letter. So, we're calling it the four Ds of building and scaling viral apps. So, what is the opportunity at hand? Almost every app listed here um in this set of case studies makes over a million dollars per year in profit, was started by one to three people, had zero funding, and has been built in the past three years. It says almost. Okay, so there are minor exceptions, but generally these apps have been built by small teams. So I'll go through the list. It's Riz, Cali, Twitter, Astra, PlugAI, UMAX, Opal, NGL, Tapp, Rays. Is that Bible chat? And then lock it. Yeah. Ideation. Okay. First section, what are the core elements of ideation? Number one, you need to identify the problem. Number two, you want to assess your resources, constraints, and the outcome curves. And then three, you finalize your solution. Okay. Identify the problem. The primary frameworks that I use are problems that you experience, problems that your friends experience, and problems that other people experience on social media. You want to ensure that these are major problems that people experience and not just some sort of minor overintellectualized thing like splitting a dinner bill evenly across six friends. I've heard this idea from maybe like a hundred people. Um, it's a bad idea. Why? Because it's a minor problem. There's not much desire or need to pay for it. So, what are major problems? Getting girls. Okay? Especially nowadays, uh, in an increasingly hypergamous society, the vast majority of men struggle with getting girls. That's pretty much the thesis behind r GBT. framework I use here is what is the major problem that you can solve 10% of so getting girls is the major problem how do we solve 10% of that is responding to girls on dating apps becoming hot becoming more attractive right this is in line with the biological imperative getting more girls um finding more romantic partners literally all boils down to girls at the end of the day almost everything. What does the consumer want? They want to get laid. Yeah. I mean, even even methods of increasing their rel people's relative status, right? Um the biological imperative asserts that we have uh two two chief objectives um which is to continue s living, continue to survive and to reproduce. Some animals will even die upon reproduction uh such as salmon I believe, right? They sacrifice themselves swimming all the way upstream uh just to to be able to have fertile eggs and we're we're not all that far off in terms of uh how how humans experience the world and life. Okay, so UMAX looks maxing was rising in popularity. So in line with the problems that other people experience um you can see this is the Google Trends search for the term looks maxing. I just want to make sure. Yeah, the stream is lagging a little bit but it might just be the Wi-Fi. It'll come back. Camera's lagging. That's fine. It should be back. It should be back. [ __ ] All right, let's go. All right. Looks maxing. You want to become more attractive. I saw that. Let's go back again. Right. Problems that you experience, friends experience, or other people experience. So, I have friends like these three guys that are really ugly and they want to become more better looking. So, they were telling me about looks maxing and I'm like, hm, that's interesting. I searched up Google Trends. At the time, I seen that it was starting to rip. I'd kind of seen it on social media and it was very obvious that at that point I should build a product around it. So I figured out what were the problems that these people were experiencing. How can I solve it? People want to get rated. People want recommendations. I'll touch on that later. Okay. Next up we have resources, constraints, and bottlenecks. So here is the sort of uh a very simplified um skill breakdown of the different skills that you need for different uh domains. So, social apps are very design and development heavy, less distributionheavy. That might be counterintuitive, but a properly built social app uh will grow itself and you won't have to really really pump on short form. There are exceptions, but at the end of the day, it's really all about retention and K factor for so to to to to build a viable social app. Emerging sectors, right? So, so the sort of apps that um that we've built are less development heavy. uh you're not competing against incumbents and so you don't have this insane expectation of extremely high engineering quality within the product. What you really need to do is you need good design. You need to come up with a great idea and and and produce viral design within that. And then you need great distribution. You need to figure out how to get people to use something that they have never never used before. Legacy sectors are less design intensive. You you have precedent in terms of what the design looks like. Um the the other word here is bottleneck by the way. I know it's cut off. Um you have so so design isn't as difficult within legacy sectors. So for Calai the design wasn't that hard early on. It was more so about the uh the innovation in terms of the uh development side of things as well as distribution. Cali was kind of in between leg legacy and emerging. legacy in that there were calorie trackers that we could take a look at but then emerging in that we were applying new new technology to it uh in the form of AI calorie tracking. Okay, this is kind of a curve of the different um wait let me fix this. All right. This is what the uh so so each idea has its own sort of outcome curve, right? Where based on the amount of execution that you apply, what outcome will you get? For a good idea, you have somewhat linear uh more execution, higher quality inputs leads to more output. Bad idea, even a lot of execution will result in pretty pretty minor output. Now there are other forms that this curve can take. Certain apps like uh RG GPT and UMAX grew very quickly but then kind of flatlined right maybe something more like this. Uh so they were fast growers but with less less high ceilings whereas Cali took a more exponential curve with a much higher ceiling. Um Cali uh by month two I think we were at like 100k MR something like that. Whereas month two or three with RGB and UMAX I was at 250 and 700K respectively and yet Cali has outgrown all of those. Um Wow. You were 700k month two for for UMAX. Wow. Yeah. 700K MR by month two. Um so the reason that this is important is you want to identify the what so so for social apps for example, right? It usually takes a lot longer to get one that's really going to grow but higher ceiling. If you're looking for a quick win, then you are probably more advantaged to work on an idea that is going to follow a fast growth curve. So capital helps increase speed, but is not necessary. So for example, now when when we're working on projects, it's like we can put in a good amount of capital. We can hire people from day one uh because we've made a lot of money from building apps. But early on, as you heard, me, Alex, Connor, even Zach with uh what was it? Um unblocked totally science. Um didn't have much capital, so you have to do things yourself. But so long as you have a couple thousand dollars, you can purchase our course. And if you don't have much money, like I wouldn't recommend that you purchase the course. Um but in line with this, the same way that building apps, you can spend more early on if you have a lot of capital. uh if you have money like it would make sense to purchase our course because you're going to be able to move more quickly. You're going to make less mistakes. All right. Finally, and I'll start moving a little bit faster, but finally, you need to validate your solution. Some questions to ask yourself are how much do people care about the problem you're solving? Are people creating content about your solution? And are people manually solving or providing your solution? So, first we had to identify the problem. Then we assess our resources, constraints, bottlenecks. Okay. So care about the problem. What are things that you care about? So for here I have some screenshots that I ripped off my Instagram. I was very skinny growing up. I think that this was actually at the age of like 16 or 17 years old. Um so self-improvement is something that I've always cared about. So it's a domain where when I'm building a product within self-improvement, I'm attached to it, right? I'm like, I [ __ ] know this space inside and out and I really care about providing high-quality products. When times get tough, it's a lot easier for me to push through. I've worked within domains where I don't really give a [ __ ] about the problem that I'm solving. I'm more likely to quit quickly and and there's there's less of a burning desire to to solve it. And so, it's a trope, right? Work on things that you care about. But I truly believe that's very important. Here I've got screenshots of the fact that I was broke, right? So this is why we're dropping the course because, you know, and then setting my mom 250,000, so no longer broke. Um, I care about helping people make money. This is why we're dropping the course. Additionally, creating the economic incentive for ourselves to do it. All right, let's continue. Creating content. If people are already creating content about it, so if you search up, like think about the tagline for the app that you're building, like put it into one or two words. search it up. If there's content directly solving that problem already on social media, that's a good sign. Uh, additionally, it's going to be easier to market uh because you're going to have influencers and whatnot. And, uh, it it's it's just it's um it's data that people actually do care about the problem. Then, manually solving the problem, Reddit is a great place to look here. So, are there Reddit communities about it? For looks maxing, there's rate me where people are getting ratings and recommendations on what they can do to become more attractive. for jerking off. People are uh using the nofap Reddit forum that has over 1.2 million members. That's it for ideation. I'm now going to pass the baton to Zach. Yeah, it's good now. It's good. Okay, we're good now. Muted for the last that you're [ __ ] Okay, cool. I repeat. So, thank you Blake for the section on ideiation. Been reading through now that we're I'm just repeating what I just said. So you guys didn't miss anything by the way. But reading your comments, you guys all are saying you want some sauce on distribution. A lot of you probably already have apps right now. And so you might think this doesn't apply to you. I don't need an idea. I don't need to know to design because you already have your app. You already have it built. Design coded. Hold on. People are saying it's echoing. Echoing test. Um Oh, that's why. Do we have them live? No, no, no, no. This this this this this is the one we're using. Oh, that's the real mic. Yeah, but when you click this, it mutes it. So, yeah. Okay, good. So, sorry guys, we don't want to build apps. It's not on the stream. Um, all right. I'm going to jump into design. This directly goes into making your app viral directly goes into the short form. So, do not neglect this even if you think you already have your app designed. Oh, that was good. Cool, cool, cool. So to get started with design, I would say that Figma and Mobin are the two most important tools. Figma is the actual design editor and Mobin is a platform where you could actually see screenshots from other apps. So it's very useful for looking at competitors, looking at existing apps, finding different templates to base your designs off of and UI components. Before you get started in actually designing your app from scratch, take the idea you have and find as many competitors as you can in the space. Try to find at least 5 to 10 and take a screenshot of every page on the app. Throw it into a Figma file. This is what you're looking at is the Figma file for Cali. We looked at all the competitors in the space, took pictures, screenshots of all of them, threw it in, and that is the inspiration we used for our wireframing. So, some of the biggest ones were My Fitness Pal and a couple other at the time, maybe lose it. Most of these apps were 20 years old. So, looking at this, it was very clear to us how much innovation was needed in the space, how old these designs were, how old these designs were. they were for an old industry and so we came in to make them more modernized. So the two key things when thinking about design is making them intuitive and then also for our sake is making them viral because we want to blow these apps up. We don't want to just build good apps. We want to build good apps that can print money. These were the first ever wireframes of Calai. There was one single action. You could take a picture of your meal. There was nothing else you could do. This was it. So, we built this out. And it's important to keep in mind for your own designs that when you're building your app, when you're building the wireframes, start very simple. Simplicity is the best way to really get started. And then ideally, as you consider building apps, consider growing it. You want to, as you add new features, still try to keep the app as simple and to the point as possible. People come to Cali because they want to track their calories by taking a picture of their food. They don't come because of all these other features we have like tracking your workouts, for example, which is helpful, but that's not the initial selling point. So, start with just one or two core features like we did. We started with this. We wireframed it out. That's very important for you to do. And then after you wireframe the app, I always recommend, not everyone needs to do this, but it's a good idea to send it to a designer. You could find ones on Fiverr that are pretty good that can take our ugly looking slop and make it something pretty. So that's what we did. We took these wireframes, sent it to a designer, and now they look 50% more beautiful. It's not perfect. This is still very far from where we are today, but from us just moving around rectangles in Figma to this, it's it looks a lot more put together. So, this is what we launched with initially, and now I'm looking at it. It has these bright orange colors. It's disgusting plainly. However, with these designs, in our first month, we did $30,000 in sales. And then our second month, still with these designs, maybe one or two extra features added, we did over $100,000 in sales. And so that should tell you something about why simplicity and moving quickly is paramount to really anything else. You don't need to build out this complex app with everything that is on the road map. Just add the first features and go roll with it. This is where we are today. So much progress from where we were when we started. We removed the disgusting orange color scheme. Now it's black and white, a lot more professional. We added a few new features in, but it's still straight to the point. You look at the homepage and there's still one core action, the plus button to take a picture of your food. And today we are doing a lot more. Okay, so this also goes into a very important point of viral design principles. Making your design go viral on short form first of all, but second secondly and more importantly being high converting. You'll notice that on all of the screens of Cali and influencer posts, we make sure that they show the name Cali. It wasn't an accident that we put the name Cali in the top left of the home screen. It's so that every time Cali is shown in an influencer video, people know, influencers know, not influencers, viewers know what app it is and they could go download. We still get so many comments of people asking what app is that because consumers are lazy. They don't look into it. They jump to conclusions before looking into it like a lot of you guys about the course we launched today. But seriously, they they will just comment. So, whatever. That's something you're always gonna have to deal with. And that's we'll get into that more in the influencer section. But every screen will show it. And even this one with Alex Eubank, who has a few million followers, we've added to the top here in in big and bold Cal AI. This was something we didn't have early on. So, pretty much every main screen that influencers will be showing off, you want the name shown. Additionally, you'll see Jeremiah Jones has a 39-day streak on Cali. Do you think he's really using our app every day? He he actually I've spoken to him. He does use our app a lot. But does he have a 39 day streak? Most people don't. Only really our power users are really strict on their schedule. The power lifters even they'll take cheat days. So a 39 day streak is hard. But for all our influencers, we will programmatically set their streak to be a higher number because it's higher converting. If I can as well, um, it's low-key part distribution, but the fact we show the app name instead of telling people download Cali makes us go incredibly more viral on social media. As soon as you start pushing an app very obviously, you're not going to you're not going to go viral. Yes. So, all this is extremely intentional and I recommend you guys do the same. Cool. We can move on to And today we are doing $3.5 million in monthly revenue. I I really want to emphasize this really quickly. This version of the app got us to $100,000 in MRR with RZ GPT. I had the API keys in the front end and we got to over $80,000 MR with that version with no notifications, no reviews, no payw wall split testing. If I could if I had the screenshot of the the payw wall, it was insane. It was like a little popup with a button and like black text over a light red background. It was atrocious. And yet at the same time got us all the way there. Your product doesn't need to be perfect. As long as it provides value to someone, you're good. Which I guess segus into my Let's try to not disconnect this. Yeah. Yeah, we can swap. This segus into the bathroom into my module. You don't have to build a perfect product. Like Twitter, we launched and we low-key illegal, but we started advertising that we had a content blocker and we still don't really even have a content blocker, which is the most fundamental part of a quitting porn app surely is the content blocker. Also, thank you boys. I have all your attention today. I'm I'm leading this right this show right here. All right, let's get into it. So the game has changed, okay? Before you needed to be super technical. You should have got a [ __ ] CS degree. Uh you should have studied coding for years. Now with AI and chatgbt specifically launching, you know, almost 3 years ago today, you can just interface it using the English language, which significantly reduces the barrier to entry when it comes to development and building. So I also recommend learning the basics. I watched the tutorial and I think that accelerates everything in terms of building the app as well. Um, so totally recommend that. It's never been [ __ ] easier. We are all proof it's possible. All of our MVP When did you build the Cali MVP? How long How long did that take? How long did it take? Yeah, dude. Like a like a month max. RZ GPT less than a month. Um, one month. Like the timeline is fast. Super fast. and traditional teams or what I I I bet the public thinks is it takes multiple months or even a year. You got to raise [ __ ] hund00 million in VC funding. You need to hire all these little devs to work on a product. Bro, it's all [ __ ] Like I can speak from experience. I learned a lot lessons. I think this goes into it. We'll get into it in a sec. Uh actually, we'll start with this slide. Uh okay, wait, we'll go back. So, I launched Quitter in two weeks of building it. I was so done with perfect perfecting an app and getting zero users that I was like, "Okay, I'm just going to build the minimum viable product that actually provides value to a small amount of people, launch, and see where I get to." So now the world has changed. People with minimal to zero coding experience can finally build milliondoll products. So, I launched Quitter one year ago today when I was 18 years old with no money in my bank account. And we now make 432,000 US every single month. And we are continuing to scale our operations. And also, that's just Apple. That's Yeah, that's just Apple as well. And common misconceptions, I don't have a CS major. I'm not technically good enough to work at any big company. Meta wouldn't hire me. No one else would probably hire me. Um, I just did it myself and look where I'm at. I partner with you though. Yeah, he would partner with me. I just used chat GBT to its full potential. Yeah. Real quick, a bunch of people have been asking about API costs for a the AI side of things. Can you tell us about what uh relative to the revenue that you produce on a per user basis as well as usage unless you're generating videos um from every founder that I've spoken to that has paid AI subscription apps, it's usually around the range of 1 to 5% of your revenue. So it's it's not bad at all. Yeah. Appreciate it. All right. And also ask about profit. Profit margins I think across all of our apps are between 10 to 40%. Maybe 10 to 50. The biggest cost is influencers, but you can engineer virality um and pay influence a small amount. And if you got a really super viral idea, like I paid $100 for a tweet where Twitter buys only fans and I made $100,000 [ __ ] dollars from it, which is a,000x. So you can engineer the app to become more uh profitable. Dude, I think that was pretty much exactly what our uh the first two promos that we did for his GPT, $50 and $50. Those two took us to about $80,000 in MR. Yeah. Crazy. The thing is, the reason we're less profitable now is we're scaling. So, we don't have time to negotiate and try and like figure out all these deals. We'd rather just build mind share and be as ubiquitous as possible. So, that's the difference today. Um, but honestly, it was not that hard at all. I even spoke to Zach when he made his first million. I think he made a million in a month and he called me and he was like, "Bro, Alex, like I made a million dollars this month." And honestly, it was super [ __ ] easy. I just can't believe it. Do you remember that? All of this information, guys. Like, Alex and I figured out the information for seeing what Cali Blake and Zach were doing and reverse engineering it. And that's what we spend our time on. And now our goal is to give that information to you. Exactly. Pretty simple. Yeah. The format is is is relatively the same. And we'll get into it very shortly. Um, in the course on artmafia.com, I build an app. I walk you through it. I build a Cali competitor to prove that anyone can do it and anyone can make millions of dollars if you put your mind to it. This is the app I built in the course. It took me two hours. It has an onboarding flow, a payw wall, the core functionality, um, and all these little nuance tricks to boost the bottom line revenue. So, you can see that there. So, yeah, it took me two hours to build that. And guess what? This is ready to monetize. I can go to market right now. I can go on Reddit. I can go on X. I can make Instagram reels about the app and it will begin to print cash. And just like Blake said, it doesn't have to be perfect. Like this isn't perfect by any means. Yeah. To add on to that, I don't think I spoke about this during ideation. During the ideation module in the course, I give multiple different ideas of apps that anybody could build and that I would build if I were just getting started. Um, and so like you know w within the course we provide the very very tangible examples of what to do and in line with what Alex said like in retrospect none of it is that hard. The hardest part about getting your first win is just direction. It's knowing where to work and where to apply your effort. the the the actual thing, the process of doing the design and writing the code and doing the marketing is not difficult, but it's determining the correct direction where most people [ __ ] up. This is why you have indie hackers that are actually very competent at design and development. We love to hire these sorts of people, but they just don't know how to apply their effort um within domains that are actually going to make them money. Agreed. Okay. So yeah, as I said, the full walkthrough is part of the course as well as the source code to that and you can re-engineer it for whatever niche you want to build an app in. You want to say something? Okay. Many people over complicate the building process. For example, my first app, Recosha, uh I spent two years building it, perfecting it, hiring a team, and it went absolutely nowhere. And this was until I realized there are only three things that matter when it comes to bu to building a consumer product today. A long onboarding, a hard pay wall, and a core feature. This is the only thing that really matters when it comes to making money from apps right now. The game has never been easier. You are just lazy. Source code to the app I built, the Cali competitor is in the course and now it's time for distribution. Let me actually hop in with Conor on the screen. Boy, distribution. What we've all been waiting for. Yeah. All righty. Um, all right. Zach and I are going to hack on this with you guys. Show you guys how we were able to scale Twitter and Cali with minimal dollars to $100,000 a month in revenue. So, the biggest question you have is, "How do I get downloads?" Well, the truth is there is no one solution. There's influencers, there's organic content, there's ASO, which is Apple Search organic, there is pay-per-click. Any any more you have for there? I think that's most of them. Yeah, faceless memes. Um, but the truth is there's no one solution. We're going to focus on how we have scaled Twitter and Calai um dramatically over the past year. So, as you can see, um, UMAX is up there with almost 7.6 million downloads just on iOS, by the way. Another 20 million on Android. Cali 7 million downloads iOS, another 5 million or so on Android. and Twitter. We're sitting at 876,000 on iOS and we probably have 300 to 400,000 on Android to address some of the comments asking about whether or not Zach had rich parents to hire the team. No, dude. We [ __ ] bootstrapped that thing. Me, Zach, and Henry. And we took no external investment. Not from parents, not from investors. We used our own money. some money that Zach had made from Totally Science, some money that I had made from RZ GPT and UMAX, um, and then scaled it up that way. And with Quitter, um, I actually put my last three grand into Alex and myself to build it. And I had zero dollars left over. I was at my parents gettingounded to get a 9 to5, get a job, but I believed in what we were doing and it paid off. Just click out of it. Yeah. Oh, I'm just trying to fix this a tiny bit. It's a little bit too large. You see how that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there we go. Word. Blake does make a very good point. It took about maybe $5,000 before we were profitable in Cali and then everything we were putting into the business was just from profit we were making. All right, influencers. So, as you guys have seen for Twitter, we've ripped tens of millions of views. Cali d tens of millions of views. Now, they're at the rate of working with people like Mr. Beast, which is [ __ ] crazy. Um, and all that started was bootstrapped off of a couple thousand dollars. Yeah, the biggest influencer on social media, Mr. Beast. And it it's just about climbing the ladder. You start with the micro influencers, then medium, then influencers with few million followers, influencers with few tens of million, and then you can make it to the top. It only took us a year and a half to do it. You can do it as well. So, there's two very important terms with influencer marketing. You've probably heard Blake and I say this a lot if you've been to any of our other live spaces. Connor has probably mentioned it a lot in his posts. RPM and CPM. RPM is the revenue per,000 views that you get on a video. And the CPM is the cost per thousand views. If your revenue per thousand views exceeds your cost per thousand views, that was a successful influencer promo. That was a profitable influencer promo and that is the only metric to go by. A lot of people think influencers it's not methodical. There's no formula. It's just gambling by throwing in money to social media and seeing, okay, maybe this will go viral, maybe not. Maybe one out of 10 videos will go viral. But no, with both of our strategies, nearly every post that we have an influencer put out, we know with up to with over 90% certainty, it will be profitable. It will have a profitable return. And the truth is, when you guys think about influencers, you're thinking about the game where it used to be. I'm going to pay an influencer $1,000 or $5,000 for a post because they have a ton of followers and maybe it'll go viral, right? Well, the truth is we have a formula that works time and time again. We push volume, we get views, and we rip downloads. So, how do you source influencers? Right? This is probably one of the biggest questions um everyone's, I want to say, asked me this for the past six months of how do we source influencers? How do we do outreach? And so, let's dive into it. Well, it's pretty easy. You want to turn your for you page into a lead engine. You want to reverse engineer Tik Tok and Instagram to start feeding you the creators that are pushing your content. Like Blake mentioned earlier, right? If I look up quit gooning, there is thousands of creators talking about this. Well, now what I can do is look up quit gooning, how to quit porn. I can start liking, commenting, sharing, saving content like that. So, Tik Tok and Instagram now push those creators to me that are most influential. And the biggest thing I'd recommend, which a lot of you guys probably don't do if you're trying to do this, is click the three dots and click not interested in every piece of content that is not related to what your user would be interested in. Yeah. Like there's one strategy here which is to curate um a separate account and that's fine and that works well but to be honest like you should live and breathe this [ __ ] Whatever account you're currently using should be like your entire feed should be based around the product that you are building. Um, and if you don't have social media, in that case, create the accounts. But every single app that I've built, I will curate my entire for you page, and I will form my entire world around how the the the target user and target demographic thinks and acts. And Alex and I were just fortunate enough that we were just definitely super addicted to porn and trying to get out of it. So, we just always had creators getting pushed to us. Um, I'm kidding. What? Um, that's what we did to find the best creators in the space. They said that China is pushing brain content to us and making us stupid. It's about turning your disadvantages into advantages using the Tik Tok algorithm that's supposed to hold you back, but instead you can make it push you forward. Now, now you're starting to get creators that you want to reach out to. All you have to do is push volume. Start sending messages. It's not that hard. Send the max you can send every single day on Instagram and Tik Tok and you'll slowly start getting responses. Like you give up after 10 to 100 messages. You're like, "This doesn't work for me. Why does this not work?" Well, we spent thousands of DMs until we got our first response. Thousands. Yeah. It's really a numbers game. A lot of you will probably have a little bit of motivation after this event. You're going to go off, you're going to think, "Okay, I know what I have to do now." You're going to spend the next day DMing influencers and trying to get them to work with you. You're probably going to get zero replies. And out of the hundred or so of you that do this, I hope that at least one of you, and hopefully it's you watching this right now to look deeply in yourself, self-reflect right now. You need to be the one that doesn't give up. You need to be the one that can take the punches, get hit in the face, get zero replies, be completely ignored, but not give up. Because if you want to be successful, it's all about the relentless perseverance. That's what it takes. And that's volumes. And now, one last thing we'll touch on, um, the message, right? What do I say? True. Well, truthfully, it doesn't really [ __ ] matter. All right. Yes, you can optimize and say, like, for example, paid promo in the first thing, explain your app, give some social proof, maybe you're the only app tailored to a certain niche, maybe have a,000 downloads. Lean into what you have for your own benefit, and you will win that, right? When we started sending out DMs for Twitter, it was literally like paid promo. We're the uh the Gen Z app to quit porn. Right now, it says with over a million downloads, we work with these influencers. But we still won the game by saying paid promo and work with us. Yeah. You want to try to show social proof if you can. I think the paid promo strategy, like he said, is generally the best thing to start with is the headline of your DM should be paid promo question mark. And then under it, then it doesn't really matter what you put. You should just try to convey authority as a brand and get straight to the point. be very succinct. The paid promo, the reason it's so important is because influencers get so many messages every single day. Hundreds, thousands of messages. And so they're scrolling through, they see, "Hey, I'm your biggest fan. Hey, I love you. Hey, would you do me a favor?" And then they see paid promo. They're like, "Okay, finally someone wants to be serious." They click it. They want to make some money. Also, if you're not verified and you're sending this, it's likely that they will not see it. They will not open it. So, ideally, you'll send it from a verified account. If you don't have one because it's your brand account, you may want to send it from your personal account and pay for verification. If you once you start getting brand deals and your brand becomes recognizable, you'll see that your response rate increases. Yeah. to to add on to that, I'm friends with a bunch of influencers that have from hundreds to millions of followers and we work with a good number of them and what they say to me all the time is they're like, "Dude, listen, you know, you you guys pay me less than I usually make per brand deal." And a lot of them, we started working together before I was even friends friends with them. And so, they didn't do it because I'm their friend. They did it because they hear from other influencers that we pay upfront. We pay on time. There's no [ __ ] We don't ask them to hop on 25 different calls for a 50% chance that they get it done. We DM them. We figure out the price. We get them paid as quickly as possible. And then we ask them to refer us to their friends. And like I cannot emphasize this enough. Be straight. Be to the point. understand that these influencers, everybody is trying to suck something out of them, trying to suck their time, trying to pause. Now, on the flip side, right, with Twitter, a lot of you guys have seen my content online, we actually did the opposite. We paid 20% upfront, but we did pay on time. We were straight with them. We leaned into the fact that we provided value to the creator because we had such a good cause behind us of helping men quit porn. every influence we worked with loved our our mission um beyond saving men from the porn industry and so that's what we leaned into. Um Cali on the other hand was competing in a much larger market with more saturation and so 20% upfront worked for us didn't work for them but there's there's multiple ways to go about this. There's no oneizefits-all solution. There never is never is a one-izefits-all. Now closing the deal, right? You're sending DMs, they're starting to respond. You have no sales experience. Like what the [ __ ] do I say? Right? Well, the truth is like never ever ever in your entire life send the pricing up front. They're going to ask you, "Yo, how much do you pay per deal? How much you pay per post? I get paid $10,000 per post." Truthfully, you can just tell them, "Hey, we pay 100." You have to know your users. You want to be able to recruit influencers to work with you. You want to you want to run a great UGC campaign. You need to know these people. You need to talk to them and figure out what they're they look for and what they don't. and then you will be able to speak their language and they will be much more likely to trust you and to do deals with you. Like I want to be very very clear here. The reason that Riz GPT got to $80,000 MR within the first 3 days, the reason that I was able to find these two creators for $50 each for promos that did millions and millions of views was because I did that [ __ ] when I was a teenager. I used to run these little [ __ ] theme pages and I knew how these guys operated. I knew that the the underground ones didn't have anyone offering to pay them money cuz they are so deep within these rabbit holes that any traditional social media manager in their right mind would never see that [ __ ] account. But I curated my for you page and I dug deep and I I I knew the mind of my consumer and I knew the [ __ ] that they were interested in and I knew who the authority figures within the domain were. You spend the time, you study the [ __ ] domain, you be and you become the person and you're going to identify that [ __ ] and then you're going to tell the story and everyone's going to say you're you're [ __ ] lying. There's no way that you paid two kids 50 bucks a pop and got to 80K Mr. But it's possible and I did it. Not going to lie, I didn't I didn't [ __ ] believe Blake on the podcast when I watched it for the first time that he paid 50 bucks per person. Um, but then I saw the receipts. though. Faith, to answer your question, 80K MR was extrapolated from weekly, but uh realistically like from those two posts, it probably would have summed out based on our average weekly subscription duration, it would have summed out to somewhere in the range of like 140K in revenue and almost all profit, by the way. Now, we're getting a ton of questions on how much do you pay per post, how do you do the deal structure, how do you guarantee this formula actually works. So, here's the sauce. All right, you want to pitch them on a view guarantee. You look at their account and you see, hey, they're getting a quarter million views per video on average. Maybe certain videos in the self-development space or religious space get more views on their account. You're going to tell them, I want to integrate our app in the first 15 seconds of this post. You're going to post four of these a month for a million views, and we're going to pay you $2,000. Zach mentioned CPM earlier. That stands for cost per mill. That's your cost per thousand views. And so, you're pitching a $2 CPM on that. And now if you do that across 50 influencers, across five influencers even. It's kind of laggy. You holding on? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's fine. It's just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's fine. All right. Now, as I was saying, you pitch this across multiple influencers, you are going to go viral. You're playing the game of shots on net. And enough shots on net, you're going to score. So, don't over complicate it. Just pitch this to every single person that responds to you. Yeah, adding on to that, I think figuring out the cost to or the price to pay an influencer what's profitable is one of the hardest things early on because it comes down to knowing your RPM, which you can't know if you haven't run a post. I'd suggest starting with a $5 RPM or less, maybe $3 to $5. I'd say five max. And then based on however many deals you can get early on from that number, run the post. See what the CPM, see what the RPM actually ends up being by measuring the spike in downloads and revenue you get after that influencer video is posted. And you should take those learnings for future posts. So if you can get So how do you know if it will be a $5 RPM in advance? Well, actually not RPM, but if if let's say you're optimizing for a $5 RPM, that means that the influencers that you are working with, you need to get a sub$5 CPM. So, let's say $3 CPM or less. That's generally that's that's doable. That's very doable. It depends on the industry. Some are more competitive than others, but $3 CPM. The way you'll want to do that is by looking for influencers that consistently average the same number of views. It doesn't need to be the same, but it shouldn't be ups and downs where it's 5,000, 5,000, 1 million, 1,000, 1,000, 2 million. It should be pretty steady. So maybe like 50 to 200k views a video on average. Then you'll want to pitch them on a structure where it's four posts a month. For four posts a month, you figure out the average views per video. Maybe it's 100k views. So, you could assume that you're going to get about 400k views in that month. 400k views in that month. Let's say you pay $400 for it. That's a $1 CPM. Let's say you're trying to pay a $3 CPM or lower. Then you could go up to $1,200 or less to get that three $3 CPM. So, that's how you should think about it. You're going to calculate the most you're willing to pay. the most is $1,200. And assuming that your RPM is higher than $3, then that should be profitable. If the views don't completely flop, the views will flop if you now have the influencers make videos that go completely against their content. The videos need to be something that already works for them. You should not have them do a completely different style. You'll want to find their most viral posts and then say, "Okay, take this and then integrate my app and give them some ideas of how they could do that." They might be more creative than you are. They they likely are and that's why they're in this role of being an influencer, a content creator, which is a creative job and why you are behind your computer screen building apps. So maybe have them come up with the ideas, but you can you can pitch them to them. Now, there was a question that just came in. How do you manage cash flow? Well, I'd say since Apple's payouts are 45 days in advance, we were able to manage cash flow by paying 20% up front and then telling the creator they get paid out in 30 days after we get paid. Now, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Now, what I had to do was sell them on the fact that, hey, trust me, we're building a relationship here. This is a long-term deal. I built a relationship with them, so they actually trusted me. And then eventually after each month, we saved cash. We could fund it ourselves. Um, but generally build a relationship. If you don't have the cash, pay upfront um at least 20% 30%. And um stall really. It's really Did we share the deal with creator corner? No, not yet. Do we have slide? I don't know. I don't think that we do. No, we don't. Okay. Um before we go over the recap within distribution, I just want to share Creators Corner is the number one Tik Tok shop affiliate UGC agency. In the past, all the best creators in the game have gone to creators corner and Tik Tok shop. So app create or app developers are constantly looking to get UGC creators, but the best ones do Tik Tok shop. However, I am close friends with Jimmy Farley. Jimmy and I were speaking the other day and we are going to be entering into an exclusive deal where if you want to work with Creators Corner to get them to push your app, they will only work with companies affiliated with App Mafia. So, we're going to work with them, vet, and ensure that we only bring highquality apps. But if you want to work with the best creators, you have to come to App Mafia. Uh we have not decided whether or not to be honest, you don't have to be part of the high ticket. If you even purchase the course, we will uh we'll consider you eligible to work with Creators Corner. There's no guarantee. Um but if you want to apply to work with them to get the best UGC creators in the game working on your app, you got to join the mafia. Okay. Now, let's go through the recap before we get into um the do we have? Yeah. So, basic recap. We went through the four Ds of building and scaling viral apps from ideiation to design to development to distribution. This was a little taste of what we provide in the actual course itself. Now the course is much more structured. We provide very very clear examples. I think I provide somewhere in the range of like four to five concrete examples of app ideas that I would build if I were new to the game. We go deep into design, how we set up our Figma files, how we hire designers, how we produce viral marketing hooks, uh, and embed that into the engineering of the product. Let's go here. We go into development. Yeah, we go into development. Building an app from scratch and launching it within two hours. And distribution. Distribution handles everything, guys. We go with over organic content. what Clue's doing with Tik Tok volume pages, influencers from sourcing, outreach, deal structure, contracts, paid ads as well, um, pay-per-click ads, so Facebook ads, Instagram, provide our templates, we provide the the actual messages that we use, DMs, the emails, you get a complete background into how we make $70 million a year for just $997. So that's all within the course. And then within the app insiders community, you get a 30-minute call with a partner uh one of us. Uh you're in the private community of vetted uh uh participants. We reserve also this should say this is annual. It's 5,000 annual. Yeah, it's a typo. Um you're in a private community. Uh we reserve the right to remove anybody who's not fit. So if you're annoying or incompetent, we will remove you and refund you. get weekly call with all of us, all of our templates, everything that's included within the uh the the low ticket course or the $1,000 course, and then obviously access to all the all the updated content over time. Um to address the question of everyone saying, "Why are you guys selling a course?" There was no incentive for us to create and structure all this information to hop on weekly calls, right? We've all tried to do it. free communities where we provide the weekly call, but there's nothing to keep us coming back. As well as it inevitably every single time gets filled with low intent individuals, people who are unserious and that makes the experience worse for everybody else within the community. This is one of the key reasons that we reserve the right to remove people that are incompetent. We're selling the course so that we can use the money to funnel back into our personal brand as well as create the incentive to actually spend the time um working with and training the next generation of app builders. Now, whether or not you are somebody who has an ecom background, maybe you're good at distribution and you want to learn the product side of apps because you know how much more money there is in it and how much easier it is to make millions of dollars in profit in software than ecom. Maybe you're a developer who makes a good cushy big tech salary, but you want to escape that and you want to have freedom and optionality and you want to learn distribution from the best in the game. That's what we provide. Yeah. What other indie hackers are working with Mr. Beast? Yeah. Seriously, like everyone on Twitter that's like, "You guys are laring blah blah blah blah blah." put one one of them who is doing what we're doing right now up to us. It doesn't exist. There's nobody doing it like us. And we don't say this to be cocky, you know, like I don't think that I'm inherently of more value as a person because of it. But I do think that it means that we know what we're talking about and that the information that we provide is valuable. And believe us now or don't believe us, that's up to you. But within the next few months, you guys will see the case studies of apps that come out of App Mafia, and you're going to kick yourself while you're still at $400 MR when you see some random person go from zero to millions in revenue because they joined the [ __ ] mafia. Yeah. And because they worked with and learned with the best of the best. The best time to start is today. So, are you going to continue to be a follower and a watcher and a gooner? you're gonna go [ __ ] change your life and become an app developer. Yeah. We also have exclusive partnerships beyond Creators Corner with various banks to get um to get to get advanced payouts. Right. If if you're a developer, you understand the issue, which is 45day net payout period for Apple. We're working exclusively with banks. We're going to be working with development shops. We're going to be sourcing the best developers, designers, marketers um for the community. Now these these uh you know you might say I can do this all on your own and you can but if you value your time then you'll save it by working with people that can help do it for you 100%. Comes down to are you willing to invest in yourself guys. I mean it took me $3,000 to invest in myself and then look where quitter ended up. Yeah. It's the greatest pos positive single. It's the greatest positive s signal signal people that invest in their education. We do it with books. We do it with watching YouTube videos. And now you can do it with finding the secrets to building apps. Honestly, I don't think we need to convince you guys anymore. You're either going to do it. You're going to rip off the band-aid and you will change your life or not. We don't really care. We don't we don't need your money. And we're gonna move on to some Q&A and and one one thing for Q. Go Blake because I'm gonna do a Q&A. I know people are gonna get mad at me for this, but like man, [ __ ] Richard Feman, one of the greatest physicists of our time, of the past century, taught at the University of Caltech, I believe. Imagine having the opportunity to go back in time and to learn from and with Richard Fineman. This is the opportunity, dude. It is like what Gen Z founders are out here making millions of dollars a [ __ ] month in software. No, it's true. And we're all young. I mean, think about decades in the future. It will be very interesting. I bet at least like I don't even want to say this. I got so much hate when I said this stuff about me not getting into college. I said that if you're going to bet on horses, if you're going to bet on people, you are better off betting on someone that's making millions of dollars at a pretty young age rather than someone who's just curious and go going to college following a traditional path. So, I'm not saying you need to do anything like betting on us, but having Should I drop this real quick? Anyone asking like how broke are you guys? Listen, this is just one investment account. Oh my gosh. Turn up the brightness. Turn up the brightness. Hold on. Let me let me This is just one investment. Make it full screen. Make it full screen. Dude, is that $1,000? All right. We're not [ __ ] 1.3 mil. 1.3 mil. Personal investment account. That's just one, right? I have cash and other He's got a Ferrari. And you guys are asking the question, why paid if we don't care? Can you move the whiteboard? Let's be white. You see that right? Wait, Conor's chair. Oh. Oh, other way. I'll just get the [ __ ] out of the way. The Lambo out there. Move the chair. There we go. Yeah, that's a Lambo right there. See that? It's a Lambo right there. I Wait, wait. You guys want to see a [ __ ] $430,000 wire the other day? We have over a million dollars of cars in the driveway right now. I don't say this to like flex and be like we're [ __ ] you know, we're cool. But but to anyone saying like our apps aren't profitable, you are fundamentally and if you think we're just selling a course to make money, the reason that we're selling a course is have an economic incentive to inspire everyone. [ __ ] around. Controversy step. Yeah. Honestly, if you guys want to know our real goal, it's because we want to invest all of this into just having a fun lifestyle. Like, this house is obviously costing a lot of money living in here and having a lot of fun. We're going to be recording a ton of content. We're going to go so viral over the next year. And by doing this, we will be able to just put everything back in to make the content crazier and crazier with you guys, and you'll be along with us for the journey. We're going to fly some of you guys out to our house for challenges. We're going to do a challenge where we take a few of you who have never built an app before, put you in a room, lock you away until you've come out and made hundreds of thousands of dollars. All right, if that doesn't convince you, then um maybe you weren't meant maybe it wasn't meant to be. Maybe this isn't your lifetime. Maybe honestly, you're hating right now. It's like, dude, go [ __ ] what? Like, focus on yourself, you know? Like, if you if you are upset by this, go do something better with your own time. The first question we got uh is split payments. Yes, we have split pay. Um, got that set up. So, do not have to worry about that. That is handled. Drop all the rest of the comments right now in the chat. Someone I think just asked, "Zack, are you going to risk Kai Trump at you Miami?" The answer is yes. She's 17, bro. I'm 18, bro. Let's go. Yo, just make the camera big. All right. All right. We're doing Q&A that [ __ ] All right. Q&A. We'll respond to hot seat time. Yo, like if there's a comment that you guys like, just uh emphasize it and we'll respond to any comment, you know, just like copy and paste it or something. What? What am I doing? Say hi to the vlog. Oh yeah. Say hi to the [ __ ] vlog guys. Vlog guys over here. Right there. Right there. Right there. They're all in the vlog. Oh, say go camera to camera. Yo, what's up Austin? Nick got some guys saying hi to you guys. Yo, we literally have [ __ ] here. Like, why the [ __ ] would WP be here if we're not important? Yeah, we introducing W. [ __ ] has been filming all of this. Holy [ __ ] There we go. All right, let's get some comments. Come on, boys. Yo, we're going to use this time to provide value. We'll answer questions about oursel, but we'll also answer questions you guys have about building apps. Okay, so influencer pitching lessons in the 5K plan. Yes, you have access to what? Why can't you just fund the fun life with the big income from your apps? You need course money? That's obviously suspicious. Okay, let me explain a little bit about why we are dropping the course to fund what we're currently doing. Why doesn't Elon Musk just sell his stock in Tesla to fund his new ventures? Right? I think one component of being a good entrepreneur is to separate the elements and uh your your businesses. So when we're spitting up new ventures, like sure, we'll invest some capital if necessary. And we've invested cash into App Mafia. There have actually been a lot of expenses that you know, I mean, more than you guys would expect in getting this thing going. And yet at the same time, we want to be able to do crazy things and create crazy content and also hire people in place to help everyone within our community um without having to spend out of our own pockets, right? And so I think this applies to business as a whole. When you're setting up entities, it's generally intelligent to keep them separate. So if we want to spend $100,000 a month on doing crazy [ __ ] and creating interesting content and having coaches to help people within our community, then we need a source of income for that. Someone just asked, "Do we recommend buying the course with a friend?" Yes, I think pulls pull money together with anyone you want. We're just trying to help as many people as possible, but we want them to be high intent, willing to actually put in the work. And if you are going to be working together on an app, then most definitely become co-founders start. And I Yeah, I would say like if you are like, okay, if you take the course and you leak it publicly online, we will sue you. Like we will drain you for everything that you have because that's [ __ ] up because we put a lot of time and effort into this and that's just like that's not how the free market works. And yet at the same time, if you buy it and you share it with a couple of your buddies, like all the power to you. We encourage that. Another question, why not take equity of apps? Do you not trust the content? Has nothing to do with trusting the content? If you're not even willing to invest in yourself to do this, it's the action, right? We're giving you the knowledge. You have to do the [ __ ] work time and time again and not give up to succeed. If you don't get up, you will succeed. So, the truth is, honestly, do you trust yourself? And who knows, maybe we do invest in the top apps. Yeah. Like that. That's like we have access to capital to banks. Like if you guys build a sick [ __ ] app to 10k 100k MR and you're like yo I need more capital for distribution we'll give you the money. Um someone's asking about Apex 10x um fit AI that sort of thing. We have collectively built like the majority of the apps that we've all built have failed. Pure pressure was the one you were talking about. Rich AI 10x apex grind clock screen. Are we talking about all of our failed apps that we've built? This is guys Hunter 300 million [ __ ] downloads. He's the [ __ ] king of this [ __ ] Yep. You guys know Yoda? This is Yoda. I heard we were talking about failed apps. The only thing I want to say is I have way more failed apps than I have successful apps. So if any app fails, it's just your portfolio. Own it. Put it on your website. Learn from it and get better. You what? You probably built 20 failed apps and then what two weeks ago you had your first million dollar day. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy boys. Insane. That's right. So yes, there is talking about failed apps as like trying to hate on the boys. Like that's crazy. That's wild. Go fail at some apps and then talk [ __ ] And I wouldn't say that they were necessarily hating, but I would say like listen um we're going to be like we're we're cool to share our failures. Um like we don't hide behind them. And I would I mean actually talk about this extensively during ideiation which is along the lines of like the only true failure is quitting entrepreneurship as a whole but if you continue to get after it um over a long enough time horizon horizon it will pay off. Um Tounbat, what was his name? Tombbat. Yo DM one of us on Twitter and we'll make that arrangement. Yeah, if you don't have enough uh money for the course also, like you just don't maybe you're from a poor family, whatever it is, shoot us a DM. Explain why you want it for free and we're going to be giving away um some some free ones to people that truly need it. I think we'll give away like two or three max. Whatever you're lying, you will be blacklisted. Also, there's a lot of questions on like look like a lot of the content we're talking about you guys have seen on podcast and online. Well, that's why we built the course. We go into nuance detail of every single thing of the four Ds. And yo, if you're completely broke, like I would not recommend purchasing any of this. Yeah. All of this information we've probably said on podcast. You could go watch all the podcasts that we've been on and learn. The value in the course is that it's structured. We show it being done. Instead of us just talking about it, we will screen share and show you going through how to build apps, how to market, how to reach out to influencers. We screen share everything ourselves. I will say that's the value. I will say as well, there's a level of like sunk cost fallacy where it's like, okay, you there's all this free material, but look, you guys still aren't successful for the most part. So, if you were to commit and put money up front, you're like, okay, I'm [ __ ] going all in this time. I put 5K of my own money into this. I'm getting a 13 hour structured course. I'm getting all these templates. There's no way I fail now. And now you're going to work super [ __ ] hard to make your money back. Yeah, I I actually do agree with that assessment, but I I would not encourage you to do that if you literally only have $5,000 to your name or you have to take out a loan for it, right? I wouldn't encourage if you got a couch to sleep on, you can put food on your table and you have money left over to invest in yourself. Yeah, man. First things first, take care of you. You live with your parents, you got 10K, like they're [ __ ] providing for you. Like, yeah, you're good. You have a nice tech job where you're making $150,000 a year. Yeah, you're good. you're working at McDonald's and you know absolutely nothing about apps and you haven't even started to study it, I'd say probably don't purchase. Yeah. I mean, listen though, like I was I was driving Door Dash uh just a couple of years ago, literally before before my apps became successful. I was still driving Door Dash to make cash as well as tutoring in college. And I purchased a $1,000 course. And you know, actually it didn't end up working out because I think the people that sold it maybe weren't weren't the best domain experts. But it was actions like that, sacrifices that you make that get your head fully in it and and and encourage you to work that much harder, right? Provides the impetus for change. Arian Sharma keeps asking how Cali I built it while having to deal with school and college apps. Dude, honestly, like look at your screen time. How many hours are you spending a day on Tik Tok, on Instagram? Because the average person, the average teenager spends five hours a day on social media. And so if you just put those five hours every single day towards building apps, building companies in general, doing anything productive. Don't build apps, go to the gym, do something with your life, you will find far more success than the average person. Ton of questions about influencer pitching lessons as well. That'll be in the course content. But when it comes to live calls with us every week, live Q&A, nuance detail, that will be in the community. Yeah. Also, like when the first iteration when you guys uh if you purchase the course and you view it, um we would love to hear requests and we're going to continue to update the course content according to what you're looking for according to the new metas as they evolve over the coming months and years. We're going to continue to make updates to the course content. Um now listen, won't be a [ __ ] full-time job. We won't sit here just hacking away 40 hours a day improving the course, but when there's important new changes or if you guys feel that there are things that you would personally like improved, uh we'll be there to make that change. Totally agree. And once again, no guarantee on an individual basis, but if five people hit us up and they're like, "Yo, like what do you think about this thing? What about this new platform? What do you think about [ __ ] clipping?" Right? We love [ __ ] clipping. They're great. Shout out WP. Shout out [ __ ] Um, but we can we can make videos on on on giving our opinions and assessments of and analysis of new domains. Someone wants to know if the influencer pitching lessons are in the 1K plan as well or just the 5K plan. The only difference between the one and 5K plan is that the one is just the content. You get the course. The 5K that's how you get access to us. You get the community. You get the calls. You get a 30-minute call with us. Templates. So, so we go over some of the basic, so we go over some of like the DMing strategies and whatnot in the 1K. Um, but then in terms of like the more built out automations that we apply within like Google Sheets and whatnot, we will provide those most likely within the 5K. Um, so like the 1K is really about like you're getting started, you want the direction, you want to know how to move, how to navigate. Uh it's pretty much the [ __ ] that we wish we knew when we were getting started. The 5K is let's say you have made some money in ecom. You have a big tech job um and you want um you want a little bit more of that personalized experience, right? You get the introductory call with one of us and then you'll be in the community where there is more back and forth conversation. You'll save I think a little bit more time being in the 5K as well as in addition to the someone just asked us to show the course. I actually don't Can we screen share the content? I want to say one thing though specifically about this. So specifically about this when when I was starting out building apps I actually paid a good friend of mine or now a good friend of mine at the time I didn't know him. I paid him like $500 just to get lunch with him. That same guy that I, you know, paid $500 to was the guy who called me and gave me an opportunity that completely changed my life when I built one of my last companies. So, at the time, I thought that like, oh my god, I don't want to pay this person money to help me. But this person literally gave me so many opportunities in my career from that initial just that initial impetus. And that's kind of how I see at Mafia as well is that like you have to invest in yourself and actually like, you know, take a chance and you never know the seed that you're going to be planting and how it's going to grow. So that's my spiel, bro. Thank you. 100%. Yo, Tim, stop spamming, bro. You're good. I'm on an 01, but let's keep it relevant. He will be. And also, I will say he will be the prime minister one day. I see that question [ __ ] every other second. The 5K for community calls. It is a community call, but the first 50 members in the community get a one-on-one with one of us. Yeah. So, 100%. No, the community and templates not in the 1K. All of the luxury stuff is in the 5K package. Um, and the 1K is just the cost material. Can someone actually join the app mafia and live with you guys if they build a crazy app? Yes, that is definitely a possibility. We the people in this community who are building apps. I mean all of us met on the internet and now we're living together and definitely some of you if you do cool things you're a high achiever and you are a cool person. We definitely want like living together that's one thing we'd have to really like you for that. But but we're definitely going to wait. We started living with these boys after they built naps after seeing our content. True. That's true. But I mean, look, it's not off the table. It's not. But we will be also flying people out to the house that are in the at mafia. We're going to be potentially hosting some things in the future. So, Mr. Beast Star Entrepreneurship, the course isn't the only thing that the at Mafia is launching. I'll put it like that. I will say what does help your chances is is being in the course. Yeah. Wait, I like this question actually. And by the way, everyone everyone wait real quick. Wait, what? Which one? Ask that question. The side shift one. Oh, okay. Let's let's try to keep them, you know, you know, we'll come back to that one. Someone asked, "Why shouldn't I put the $5,000 to Sideshift and put it to you guys?" This is a great question. Very fair question. Uh my response here would be something along the lines of, "How often do you see de app developers spend money on apps and completely flop?" I would say this happens the vast majority of the time. Case study one right here. Spent 20K on an app in college. Down the drain. Oh [ __ ] You know, our success rate is still imperfect, but what you do see is as we spent time in the industry, our success rate has improved. This is because our analysis and intuition has improved because we've got access to more data. Our objective within at Mafia as a whole is to help people develop this intuition and analysis more quickly as well as provide standardized templates and frameworks. So, one, if you purchase the 5K, you get to hop on a call with us. And ideally, we can provide some value. You know, I actually I'm going to gas myself up here. Not that my ego needs it, but um they're uh real fake photos. I believe it was. That's the only paid call I've done in my entire life. I took $1,000 for 15 minutes. This was over a year ago, so now I would charge much more. Um $1,000 for 15 minutes. ju just under a year ago actually. I think at the time they were at around5 to $10,000 a month in revenue. I saw them in San Diego about 6 months later. They were doing hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in revenue. They said it was because of the call and the strategy that I helped uh them develop. EMTT Halm came out to San Diego about two months ago. We spent time just hanging out. He's my homie. and uh Yapper was at 8K in MR. Within the next month and a half, they 5xed after employing the strategy that I recommended to him um through I think for him it was they were targeting the wrong demographic. They were targeting people that wanted to create AI generated videos for fun to send to their friends. I was like, "Dude, no, that's not it. Target the [ __ ] clippers that wanted to learn how to use V3 to use that to improve the number of views that their short form videos generate." Five extra. So our analysis, our assessments on things are not perfect, but that's the sort of uh upside that we can provide given the amount of time and and and data that we've kind of accumulated from operating within within the app space. You ready for this guys? Not to mention not to mention [ __ ] TurboLearn, Sarthic worked with me million dollars a month after working with me for UMAX. Sebastian Turner uh intern at Apex took what he learned applied it to build Einstein Fineman raised raise again and claimed which through all that that's five different apps over $100,000 a month co-founders from from uh RZ GPT went on to build a $25 million a year app studio and now listen all these people are extremely effect oh employee from 10x 50k a month shortly thereafter all these people are very very effective operators I do not mean to discredit their success it's Not because of me. They're very intelligent people working within a domain with a [ __ ] ton of upside right now. But I would like to think that I played some some minor minor role within. And you share all these principles in the course. Yeah. I mean, we we go through and yeah, within the course, we share we share the the frameworks that we've developed and that we believe and know to be true. And in the $5,000 community, that's how you can get access to a short call with one of us. And then uh you know week weekly meetings where we host Q&As's. There's a ton of questions how to give us reach out to us in terms of pitching your story if you want the course for free things that just hit us up on Twitter guys. DM us on Twitter. Easiest thing with it's mafia account or us personally. Yep. Um I think this call has went pretty long and we've provided a lot of information. You want to drop something? Probably want to keep it like short and sweet. No, keep going, bro. Q&A. You want to keep going? Yeah, [ __ ] it. So what is what's the one up here? All right, give us some good questions now. Stop asking about women and actually let's let's stop selling. Maybe let's just [ __ ] let's um let's just answer people's questions. Give some advice. Give them like a taste of what the weekly calls will look like. Yeah. You guys down for that? Yeah, I'm down. Why don't we do an app audit? Anyone got an app they want us to look at? Yeah. Yeah. Anyone? Yo. So, drop your app. Someone said, "What's the main difference between one and 5K?" Access to us, weekly calls, app audits. We're also going to be pushing tools, templates, resources, things that help save you time. It's the full package. So, okay, this is one question that I kind of want to address that I feel like we haven't touched on. Uh, why do we think so many other creators uh that were supporting App Mafia felt betrayed by y'all? To be honest, like I've spoken very very strongly about the fact that I would never sell a course. Um, I'm a very eccentric person. Like, I like to make big claims. Um I like the concept which is like strong opinions loosely held. I think a lot of people saw all of us uh as legit entrepreneurs and they have this perception that legit entrepreneurs don't don't drop courses. Um I think it's difficult to adopt contrarian opinions and contrarian beliefs but we all kind of saw the the sign of the times with regards to social media and the value of instigating and creating controversy and the ability to leverage that. And I I know that that upset a lot of people because it went against this notion and this belief that we had actually held ourselves as well, which was that like we don't need to sell info because we have legit businesses and we don't need to. But in the pursuit of prioritizing content, we needed a funnel to to make it economically viable so that we could use this essentially as startup capital, right? like we don't take we didn't want to raise $5 million and be beholden to VCs. Um and so this was the path that we decided to take because it would provide us with the initial capital so that we wouldn't have to spend our own cash and then additionally it would enable us and give us the economic incentive to provide value to the community. Um so that's why we did it and I don't fault people really for hating on us. the vast majority of people I do not fault uh because you know it's it's how the world goes how the economy works court of public opinion it's a generally good thing um you'll learn that in our course is that how to how to predict consumer behavior and what we're seeing is consumer behavior the masses and how they typically will react to things instantly with a little with limited information. Yep. Do we want to do an app audit? Yeah, let's do it. But we need a good one. So, this one looks pretty solid, honestly. Which one? Sizz AI. What's the content? All right, we're going to we're going to audit Sizz AI. Let's find the social media content. The first thing I'm going to do when someone asked me to real quick do an app audit is I'm going to find find your posts on social media. All right, looks like they're running UGC. We got an account here style with Kate. Although accounts deleted, which is weird. trouble. What's going on? Caleb's here. No way. Yeah, bro. Yo, GT3 RS just pulled up our voice on the 26 AI. Let's do the audit. Number one issue that I see is like your Tik Tok doesn't have any posts. I don't know if Tik Tok is your primary platform, but what you always want to have is a pinned post that shows how the app works. So, we'll go to Cali. I'll show you guys this. With Cali, the first post that you see is a very clear demonstration of how the product actually works. For plugai, we have the same thing. Um, now this post you don't make because it's going to be viral. You make to highlight the key feature so that when someone gets pushed to your product, they they actually see you don't have to explain, right? Because you can't assume that every single influencer promo is going to be optimized for conversion. That way, they can tag your account. Now, there are some strategies that don't really rely on funneling people to to your own social media account. Uh, but that's generally what I look for. Okay, let's see. Too complicated. You watch this video. It's like, let me see the hook. We do it. The Yeah. Yeah, I mean the hook's obviously not great, but the app's also they show like seven different screens and there are like 30 different elements or like 10 different elements on each screen. You see that? Show the show the outcome that you're providing in the value. The value is to see the outfits on your body. Yeah. In terms of like I understand their strategy here is UGC, so like they're not controlling every single hook, but in terms of hooks, I would try to make it like a little bit more sensational. maybe scandalous something about like going on dates like I'm going on a date with my ex or some [ __ ] or like oh uh you know like getting dinner with my ex uh and my boyfriend doesn't know like sizz AI you know I don't know something that's like scandalous people going like what's going on here um okay now let's take a look at the actual app itself um what's up squeezing Alex yeah can you move up a little bit Yeah, I actually just downloaded I realized I've had it I had it downloaded in the past. I think because we were actually building a fashion app at one point. So, I was looking at the competitive landscape. Something with the onboarding I immediately noticed is that it's like three or four steps and then it asks me to leave a rating and then it payw walls me. I don't I don't even understand what the app does by this point. I was just asked a couple questions and then it hit me with the payw wall. for an app like SISAI where it's it's not an obvious use case. It's not something that people have baked into their daily routine is using an app for picking their outfits. So, you should explain how this is going to benefit them directly on the onboarding. Alex speaks about this a lot, how you need a really long onboarding. And you don't necessarily need a really long onboarding, but the goal of the onboarding is to warm up the user so that by the time they're at the end, they're pumped for the app. they know exactly how it's going to help them, how it's going to solve a problem, and exactly what the feature set is. So, I would have more screens, first of all, more questions to make the app feel more personalized. But then secondly, I would also I would also suggest that you add some explainer screens that maybe show off demonstrate some of the features or demonstrate how it's going to help people. Maybe show some statistics on like I don't know people how much time. Actually, that's kind of [ __ ] the idea. I was just going to suggest, but but you there's a lot you can do to show how the features work. You could even have them sample it. I saw there's no free trial. You literally have to pay to use it. If you're going to do that, you should give some sort of a sample on the onboarding screen. Like let them take a picture of one of their outfits or let them randomly generate an outfit live in the onboarding before you ask them to pay. And then once you're in it, I'm not going to lie, like the app is pretty low quality design-wise and contentwise. There's just not a lot going on. I do like that there's one call to action. It's just one black button in the beginning to try an outfit now. But then I click it and it gives me an error message saying use the create outfit button to start. So this try outfits now button should be whatever the create outfit button is because honestly I have no idea where the create outfit button even is on this. So it's pretty confusing. But yeah, let's um go to the next one. Does anyone else have an app? They I mean they're asking Zach and Blake what was wrong with Fit AI. you guys answered that. Yeah, dude. Honestly, that was just team. That was like just not having the right It was It was a couple things. One, it was that we we never put in the right team structure. As Blake was saying, we were basically it was part of the Cali team was working on Fit AI and then we also brought in someone externally to work on Fidai as our head of product lead developer and ultimately the Cali team had to prioritize Cali because we were just growing so fast and so it didn't make sense to keep iterating and working on Fit AI. I still think the idea would work, but in terms of marketing, we actually tried to get a lot of influencers once the app was done to promote the app. And it directly competes and conflicts with their workout plans, their personal coaching that they sell, a big revenue source for these influencers. So, they don't want to they don't want to sell an app that's potentially going to put them out of business or cut into their revenue stream, their living. Yeah, it's very clear in retrospect. Yeah, because it made a lot of sense because it overlap with Cali, but that personal coaching thing is massive. So, 100%. A lot of people also like to ask, okay, why don't you put these fitness features within Cali? I'm a big believer that you want to keep your app very simple, one use case, and that's the point of the app store. That's the point of an iPhone home screen. You could have multiple apps for different use cases, for different solutions. But just because something is seemingly related, like calorie tracking and working out, doesn't mean you need to have them in one app. And I'd rather be better at one thing than be mid at like a bunch of things. Yeah. You don't want to be the one-stop shop for mediocre products. 100%. And think about it, new users as well, they don't want to be confused of six different tabs, seven different features. They just want to get right to the core pain point that they're facing and just deal with it. Yes. Uh to the question about are seven onboarding questions. Fine. Wait. Yeah. Also, Cat, that's not at all what her saying, huh? Um what did Cat say? You need 20 ideas. You need 20 app ideas for one to stick. And you need to be prepared to spend $1,000 on a course and $1,200 on the first influencer promo. No. Alex and I earlier explained how, you know, Alex spent $100 on a promo with a 100k return. I spent $50 on two separate promos that returned 80k in MR or probably I think that it would have done around 140k in like cumulative LTV. Um, we each launched our apps with like 2 or $3,000. So you certainly do. That's that's not what we're saying. Um to the question, are seven onboarding uh questions fine? You know, it's very subjective based on your app. Uh but the intent of an onboarding flow is to make the app feel personal to the user. They're answering questions about their pain point and their life and you're creating a custom plan which like in the back of their head builds value. Um so when they are hit with the pay wall, they're like, "Oh [ __ ] I've answered a bunch of questions. My intent is super high. I'm just going to pay because this is the app for me." So usually the longer the better. there is a sweet spot. Every subsequent page uh increases friction and you want to minimize that but you also want to maximize LTV. So it's finding the balance between them. Personally asked for an app audit grace speaking a look at this Hunter actually gave me this advice when I first started building UMAX. It's really good advice and it stuck with me to this day. It's a principle principle that Apple employs. They say that you need to make it friendly. Hunter, you want to explain what that means? Yeah, I think you you want to build apps that have really based on delightful and Oh, wonderful. Thank you. that have very like delightful like patterns, nice buttons, big colors that are really poppy and you know where your eyes should look. When I look at apps like this, I think, you know, for example, the the Grace Speak app that that Blake just handed to me, I just don't know where to look. Um, you there's a lot of different areas where my eye is being pulled. There's not a clear direction of where to go. So I love to always kind of make design very obvious like you should be telling the user where they should go, what they should press. There should never be a moment of confusion because if user gets confused then they're just going to leave. So design is very important in that sense. Thank you. Example. Yeah. Yeah. I would say in addition to that it's like u we we speak about this in the course a lot which is you need to make it friendly and you need to make it simple. What's the core action? Like what what are people engaging in? When I see this, I see there's like a speak with the Lord and you can have a conversation, but I don't I don't there there are like a bunch of different things for me to do and there's a lot of white space and especially with a religious app like I want to feel connected with God. I want to feel that religious presence. And here what I feel is I feel like this is made by a developer who didn't even use Figma before building it and probably just uh uh yeah almost certainly built all the components within Swift UI or um or React Native. Yeah. So, it's, you know, it's a cool idea and I think that helping people connect with their faith is a good thing, but um yeah, the the the product definitely needs work. And I mean, if you were to take the course, you would kind of see uh exactly where you're going. Like, this is a perfect example, I'll show you guys, of an app where you build it. And if you don't have that much background knowledge, you might think that like this is good enough. But if you take the course, it'll become very obvious what you're doing wrong. 100%. Someone asks, should I make a quick doom scrolling app? Um, etc., etc. What you should prioritize is high pain points because people are willing to pay for things that have a high pain point in their personal life. Usually, doom scrolling apps don't make that much money because you're getting a lot of dopamine for scrolling and you don't really feel super guilty uh for it. Um, same with many other things like Cali for example, great product, great app. Painpoint isn't as high. That's why the conversion rate isn't as high. So, don't build uh what was it like a vitamin, build a painkiller, isn't it? Vitamin vitamins. I think I think I tweeted that recently. Yeah. Go on. Do you want to do you want to share? No. No. You did a great job. Yeah. Don't Don't build a vitamin. Build a painkiller. Like actually [ __ ] solve someone's life. Don't just make it like 2% easier cuz that's not worth it enough. Yeah, I agree with him. I mean, like any idea, honestly, most ideas, they need to be a certain point where they're painful enough where then people will care to buy it. The doom scrolling, there's that Opal, it's doing like half a million dollars a month. So, there's clearly a market for it if you have. So, so it's not a bad idea. It's a saturated market. So, you may not want to you may not want to pursue. It's very hyper competitive and Opel kind of has saturated that market. Yeah, agreed as well. Yeah, that's a great point. Like I wouldn't go out and build a bunch of com competitors just because there are leading apps making a bunch of money. Like try and fill a brand new niche. Let's say for for Quidd's example, there were a bunch of quitting porn apps on the market. We were like, "Okay, this doesn't appeal to Gen Z and young people, so I'm just going to build that." I didn't copy anyone. I just made the product better and for a specific niche, and that's why we're so successful. On this point though, someone just commented, "Do you think a new Cal AI calorie tracking app can compete and even outperform you in a few months?" I do not. The reason we have been able to grow so fast is because we have completely innovated on My Fitness Pal, which has been around for decades. It's a dinosaur. It's an antiquated app, and the world needed something to replace it. So, that's where we came in. Alex is right. If you just enter all these industries where there aren't obvious ways you could innovate, it's going to be it's you're shooting yourself in the foot. You're making it a lot more difficult for yourself. If you just build another AI, like all of our Cali clones, they do fractions of our revenue. And that's partially because they just have no idea the extent of what we do that we know. Maybe maybe some of them are going to go buy our course and then become better competitors, but even then we have first mover advantage. We've when other people actually promote with influencers their calorie tracker. I see people in the comments saying like why are you showing Cali or that's Cali or people will ask what app is that? And people will respond to them and say it's Cali. So the advantage of being the first one to hit the market hard is a massive advantage. That's the power of branding and brand. Let's do another one. So like Yeah. So, even like I'm I'm not going to audit this app, but I'm just going to assume Nail Diva helps you find the right nails. I mean, look, cool idea. Very one-off use case. Like, no one's going to pay recurring for that. Also, the pain point isn't super high. So, based on Yeah, I don't know. I feel like Zach would disagree. What are nail diva nail app? Well, that would wait. Oh, yeah. Cuz didn't someone just comment tweeted that? Yeah, you sent something about that. Yeah. Yeah, someone actually tweeted recently that there's huge opportunity. Girls want their nails customized. What did What were you saying? You said that's a bad idea. Well, I think it's a one-off idea. Like a one-off idea. Like you wouldn't pay recurring for it. Also, the pain point isn't high. And also, is is there a a law to girls going into a nail salon not knowing what what nails to do and just like doing the lucky dip and just like spinning the wheel? Is that But you know, you know what I mean. No, I I I know what you mean. I honestly I think that most apps like this app I don't think it can make millions of dollars a month. But no doubt in my mind you can make at least six figures a month with an app where girls can take a picture of their hands and then try on different nail types on them and see how it would look or customize something completely new and then show that to the nail salon. Do you guys think you can like almost any app idea can make hundreds of thousands? Not any. Not any. It needs to be a certain intent. You know, I think that the hard part is is often not like whether or not there exists a market for it, but how easy it is to uh get the word out to that market. Right. There are I think to your point, almost any app idea could do hundreds of thousands of dollars if you had a perfectly efficient algorithm that can find those people. This is one of the powers I think of uh platform ads for example, right? Platform ads are very effective. when you have a high LTV, you have a lot to spend and you want to surgically target target your your target demographic. Whereas organic marketing by influencers or UGC um is significantly cheaper on like a perview basis, but is not necessarily as concentrated on average. Now, as much as we would love to stay here and answer y'all's questions all day, I think that it's getting time to wrap this up. You guys ready? Ready to take a chance on yourself? Invest in yourself? Yeah. Listen, if you guys liked what you heard here, uh we've got two options. We've got the $1,000 onetime purchase course where you can get access to about 15 hours of content where we will continue to update it and we'll take into account Wait, we about to die. No, we're um 15 hours of content. We we will continue to update it according to the new strategies, metas, and opportunities within the app space. We'll continue to provide ideas there and also take into account your feedback. We don't have a community within the $1,000 onetime option, but you can send us messages and we will use that to inform the future content that we continue to add into the course. Uh, additionally, we have the $5,000 per year uh option that comes with the community. the course. You get a 30 minute call with one of us uh when you first join or whenever you would like and you get to participate. We're going to host weekly calls where you can ask questions, do Q&As's just like we did here. Appe to other Yep. app audits, speak to other founders within the community. Uh we're going to help uh much more with sourcing there. So So we'll have um coaches and whatnot to help source developers, designers for people within the community. uh you'll be able to send messages and we'll be active within it as well. Um and we'll only be highquality founders. So we are very firm on this. If you purchase and you join but you are incompetent and we don't think that you're productive member of the community, we will remove you and refund you in full. Um so that said, this is a very nice taster to Art Mafia and we hope you guys are excited. The next six months are going to be super fun. Listen, we're going to continue to make content and share what we uh know about apps. If you don't have the money for it, like our position is not now we're professional gatekeepers and you have to pay us to get access and information. It's not what we're doing. We're going to continue to share the information in bite-sized pieces on X. But if you want it structured, if you want the nuance, if you want to participate and save time, right, if your time is valuable and you don't want to have to go and filter through and try to piece everything together, you want it structured, um, that's where the course and the community come to play. With that said, first 50 people in the inner circle get a uh, personal one-on-one call, one-on-one call with one of us. And, um, we're live. I just have one question for you guys and we're going to end on this. If you have one, if you have one opportunity to change your life, present it in front of you. Do you believe in yourself enough to take it? I want you to sit on this after we end this for the next 5 minutes. How much do you believe in yourself? And listen, if if you don't join now and you want to kind of see how this plays out, that's fine. But opportunity is not infinite. and you're going to spend the next six months of your life doing whatever it is you've currently been doing. And I can I don't think legally, but personally, I think that there's a very high probability that you will see founders in at Mafia that went from zero to over $100,000 in monthly revenue because they were willing to bet on themselves. And if you're not in the position where you believe in yourself to that degree yet, that's fine. Everyone still has ground work to do. There was certainly a position in my life where doing something like this would not have been the smart move. And if you're there, that's okay. But if you're sick and tired of where you've been and you feel like you've done the groundwork and you feel like it's your time to finally build something that actually succeeds and takes you to the next level, that's what we're here to help you achieve at mafia.com. Boys and girls, do you believe in yourself?