[Music] I am really excited to have James Claire on the podcast today he writes over at James clear calm and is the author of atomic habits which was one of my favorite books in 2019 so I really hope that you'll check that out so one of the things that I loved about about your book and about this idea is that I've always really embraced the idea that doing helps create confidence and it helps create clarity but I love how you talk about it also helps create identity what why do you think why do you think that is and how can we best leverage that yeah it's a good question I had a coach in high school who said confidence is just displayed ability and so I think that's very similar to what you just mentioned you know and it's like he was a basketball coach so it's like well if you want to be confident in your ability to make free-throws go out and shoot and once you make ten in a row you'll feel much more confident about it and so there is a certain element of like the link between doing and thinking or doing and believing and I think this connection between your habits and your identity your behavior and your identity which I talked about in atomic Abbot's is maybe taking that even one step further or one step deeper so the basic idea is that your habits are how you embody a particular identity so you know if you make your bed each morning you embody the identity of someone who's clean and organized if you study biology every Tuesday night for 20 minutes you embody the identity of someone whose studious and so the more that you act in a particular way it's like the more you reinforce being a certain type of person and that's kind of the summary that I use the like short version is that every action you take is like a vote for the type of person you want to become and so you can sort of view your habits as casting votes for being a certain type of person or casting votes for a certain type of identity and once you start to see it that way you don't have to we can continue the voting metaphor like II don't it doesn't have to be unanimous you don't have to be perfect to win any election you just need a majority of the votes and so if you're looking to change your identity or to shift it if you're looking to be a little more confident or reduce self doubt to upgrade and expand your your confidence and your belief in yourself then habits are probably the best method we have for that because by acting it out and by doing it even if it's just a small way you cast a vote for being that person and you reinforce that deeper belief so that's kind of how I think about the link between behavior and beliefs and habits and identity that's awesome how what does it look like when our identity doesn't our sense of being doesn't really match our do it has you ever had that moment of your life where there's just that dissonance because who you think you want to be but then your actions aren't really holding it up right so this is a this is the standard reply or standard suggestion the more common advice that you might hear which is fake it till you make it so you keep telling yourself I'm being this kind of person right I'm a healthy person I am a healthy person but you're not doing it you're not going to the gym and working out and so in that case when that when it moves that direction from beliefs first to behavior second what you have is you have a belief but you don't have evidence for it and we have a word for beliefs that don't have evidence we call it delusion right like at some point your brain doesn't like this mismatch between what I say I'm doing and what I'm actually doing and so for that reason I think they get till you make it can only be a short-term strategy it can only be something that you use in that moment or that day to motivate you and instead I think behavior and beliefs we can imagine them like a two-way street and when you start with the belief and try to drive the behavior you can run into this problem that we're talking about now but my argument is the best option we have is to start with the behavior and let the belief follow so behavior first belief second and now if you go and do one push-up well no you didn't transform your body but you also cannot deny that you're the type of person who doesn't miss workouts in that moment right like you're casting a vote for being that person and so there's something very concrete about doing the action and letting that drive the belief that you have because it provides actual evidence something you cannot deny because you're in the middle of doing it or you had already completed it it's much more likely that that belief is going to stick around whereas if you're just trying to like affirm or convince yourself of it well as soon as your behavior doesn't match up you're like okay this is really I know at some level here I'm lying to myself and so I think for that reason let the behavior drive the belief so for people going into this new year and really going into a new decade which is kind of exciting what are some ways that we can leverage this that we can maybe plan our actions first because we know we want this certain kind of identity so I think the the line of questioning goes something like this which is usually when the new year starts people ask themselves what kind of results they want I want to lose weight this year I have a new year's resolution to finish that book finally or I have a new year's resolution to reduce stress or sleep more or take care of myself whatever it is and those results certainly those are fine there's nothing wrong with wanting that but most New Year's resolutions fail partially because they don't get integrated into our identity they don't become a habit that's part of our normal daily routine they don't become part of who we view ourselves as being we want to change our results but we don't change who we are or how we look at ourselves and so I think a better question to ask is not what results do I want but what type of person could get those results what type of identity do I need to have to be that person so sure your resolution or your hope might be to lose 30 pounds in six months but to ask yourself who is the type of person that could lose weight well maybe it's the type of person who doesn't miss workouts or who is the type of person that could finish that novel well maybe it's the type of person who writes every day and as soon as you shift from focusing on outcomes to focusing on identity it changes the way that you approach building the habit because then you start to realize oh all I'm really trying to do is actually not write the novel I'm trying to sit down and write a sentence every day all I'm trying to do is actually not lose the weight I'm trying to wake up and make sure that I don't miss workouts and so I think that is probably a healthier way to like merge that idea of habits and identity with the resolutions you said or the goals that you're focused on or whatever you want to achieve in the next year how have you seen people stay consistent and realistic with their habits in the long term yeah they're kind of like two problems with building habits the first problem is like getting started and the second problem is sticking with it or sustaining it and we all feel this way there's this problem when you start to build a habit which is you kind of have this like valley of death in the beginning where you're you're working on it but the long-term rewards have not shown up yet and you hear people say that all the time they'll say like I've been running for a month but I can't see any change in my body or I've been you know like journaling for six months now I still feel stressed and anxious or you know the result is not there and this is a hallmark of any compounding process which is the greatest returns are delayed and there's this quote from the San Antonio Spurs NBA basketball team we've won five championships and they have this this quote hanging in their locker room and so something like whenever I feel like giving up I think about the stonecutter who takes his hammer and bangs on the stone a hundred times without it's showing a crack and then at the hundred and first blow it splits in two and I know that it wasn't the last one that did it but all the four came before and I think that same idea can apply to pretty much any habit right it's like it's not the last sentence that you journal that leads to calm and reduce stress it's all the ones that came before it's not the last workout you did that leads to a fit body it's all the ones that came before and if you're willing to embrace that idea that you need to build up a volume of work you need to keep showing up and let those rewards start to compound over time then you can really see the benefit of sticking with it and using that mindset to get the habit to last so anyway hopefully that's a short story or an idea that gives people something to hang on to yeah that's awesome I always encourage people if you don't love the process it's really hard to get the result you're looking for sure like however we can figure out to love the process or maybe pick a different result that you could enjoy the process because it's so hard to to grind through something that brings no joy or fulfillment in hopes that one day you'll have a certain result ultimately it's more important to fall in love with the daily habits than it is the result because we fall in love with the habits the result will happen naturally but if you only fall in love with the result you'll always be finding yourself trying to get motivated or failing to stick with it or so on so it really is much more about the system than it is about the goal awesome thank you so much James it was awesome chatting with you great thank you for the opportunity and if you guys want to hear more from James I would check out his site James clear comm can also find him on Instagram or if you get our workbook I have a link to his book and I would highly recommend it atomic habits it was really one of my favorite books the 2019 and this is a great example of the fact that we don't have to be perfect we just have to be a little bit more courageous every day because adventure awaits