African Love, Family, and Polygamy Insights

These are our opinion and these are unpopular. We're talking about the African love, the black love, the black holistic love. And then we then touch also the issue of family. Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, take us through. So. family is important it's a family tree for a reason it starts school bom kulu okoko you know great grandfathers great grandmothers and it filters through to our generation so as black people to understand ourselves holistically is you need to understand the family tree and you need to understand what each male figure especially how they contributed to where we are now in our generation, either in the relationships or the family as a whole, you know, what did they bring to the table, you know, are we economically, do we have all the things, you know, material things, was it because the great-grandfather had some business that he tried, you know, building their legacy coming all the way down, because that's how this holistic family and relationships start growing. you know family that works together prays together does everything together um if you look at other nations they're good at that so we need to build that hold it down as black people black couple and just see how it grows yeah yeah so it's quite important for us to to to build that tree we need to yeah which is which is actually for a reason why they call it a family tree As my brother was saying earlier in the conversation, that even the very notion of polygamy is just a colonial imposition that was imposed on us. We find ourselves using European concepts to define these African phenomenons. And interestingly, he put it in the context of a tree. And when you look at the tree, a tree with many branches and many fruits, and from a holistic point of view, it is all seen as one family. Just a... One family with many branches, many leaves, many fruits that come out of it. And contributing to the building of a society because the building block of a society is a family. It is. And if you look at that tree on its own, it's being held by one big roots, which is grounded. And as women, we need our men. to be masculine, to hold that root down. And we as women become those little branches that come here and there. We are the leaves and you support each other. You know, seasons change. The one leaf falls, but the other one is there to carry it. The branches are still holding it and the tree still stands. Yeah, yeah. Interesting phenomena of the tree. Because we have a saying that even the pillar of the family, when he passed, they say the great tree has fallen. Yes. And you are looking now in terms of the tree, that the bearer of the fruits, the one that keep every branch and the stems together, is no more there. So it is important to always build on our family trees. Yes, and grow that legacy so that when that tree has fallen, when it hasn't fallen, there's one that's already been groomed. by understanding the tradition, understanding the culture, understanding everything that happens in this family, you know, spiritually as well, so that you continue with those things so that you don't have the problems we're having now about spirituality and families because no one knows where they come from, the clan names they fall. So while that branch is still there solid, it must... It is good that one of the things that is very prevalent now is our people... are getting into this position of understanding their family tree through their totems through their eponyms through their genealogies and chronology as to where do they come from and how did they evolve to where they are so it's good that that is forming part of ours sangkoffing um very interesting phenomena when you go in the realm of family that um What we don't understand, most of the things that are there, companies, businesses are family entities. You go to Oriental Plaza there, you find shops where in the shop you find about three women who are in charge of three teals in the same shop. And you learn later that they are the wives of Mr. Ahmed or Mr. whoever those Indian men, Arab men who are running things. So it's basically the notion of... entrepreneurial polygamy. What's your understanding of entrepreneurial polygamy? First, my sisters, again, women, you need to understand the role that you each play in that man's life. What you each bring to the table, because you're not all the same. I might be bringing a certain skill where I will be the one that runs the finances of the company. The other one is good at marketing. you know, for our company. And the other one is good at, you know, the daily runnings of the company. So once you understand that there's no competition, and what people see, they see unity throughout. And those are the, that's where polygamy works effectively, not how people think it's all about the men and his sexuality and that it's not. You're coming, there's an individual, you're bringing whatever to the table, to the same big table. And when you throw all those things in, you get a big family that works effortlessly and successfully. And the business runs and you grow and you're able to leave something to your children and, you know, grow. To go together. It's quite interesting because we have examples of those families working like I just mentioned, Oriental Plaza. or any place where you can get Indian communities concentrated with their businesses or the Arabs. Because I think within the religion of Islam, it is practiced polygamy. You are allowed to marry about four wives or so. But it becomes said that when it comes to the black experiences, you get a lot of black people who talk about the negativity of polygamy. They'll start to tell you that, oh... my grandmother was part of it, her experiences was not nice, my so-so was part of it, the experiences was not nice. Is it part of this general psychology of self-hate or is the fact that we black people, we seem not to getting anything correct? I think it's a mixture of everything and the spirit of competing, especially with women. I doubt if there was ever polygamy of men with one woman, you'd have half. the nonsense that we have. But I think with women, it's more the competing and not understanding the role that you play in that family, in that man's life. Because here's the thing, not everyone is blessed with being married to one man. Already the equation is ours. So if you have the opportunity to be part of this one household with this one man, It's important for you as a woman to understand the role you bring. In that way, you also work towards making the experience work. You won't be the one saying to people out there when they say, how is it like being in a polygamist relationship or marriage as a woman? And Ruzang Jela would say, you know, my sister, wife is like this or like that. You're focusing on what you're doing. As long as your man is happy, the kids are happy, the household is running. I don't see why it should not work. There is a saying that black women love everything about, or these woke women of today who are into Africa, this Africa that love everything about Africa or African culture except polygamy. Just like there is a saying that black people hate everything about colonialism except Christianity. Just like a saying that Abba Zalwani hate everything about African culture except no bono. Yeah. They never reject the love of Allah. So there is this bad tendency of you embracing everything except this one particular... There's always this one thing you need. This one thing that you don't take it in its totality. And yet we will be talking about total liberation. We'll be talking about... totally emancipation we talk about it like these things we are talking about today african spirituality this is africa's new philosophy of redemption where we're trying to redeem ourselves and it is best that we do we deal with this thing in its totality yeah yeah i've addressed the issue of the berlin conference even in this particular platform that um the europeans they said in berlin for about three months 15 days and you asked what were they doing doing for three months and 15 days They were discussing how to colonialize us holistically, completely, totally. And now when we try to decolonize, we decolonize piecemeal. Hate everything about colonialism except this powerful part of colonialism called Christianity. Love everything about Africa except this part of African family system. Hate everything about African culture, but you love this one particular thing called Nogbola. So. So we need to embrace the totality of ourselves if we're going to totally emancipate. So which is said that we find it hard to find examples from ourselves. But I've seen some good examples. There is one good, I'll call him a brethren, although he's a couple of years older than me. He's running his thing there. Now he has taken his nine-one wife. He invited me to his setup, his church, his spiritual center, his home. And they are quite young women. I'm not talking about old women. I talk about these modern women, educated women and what. But the cooperation that is going on there, the working together, the beauty of the family system, the beauty of his team, it is something else. And I thought this is one of the good examples, because one of the examples that they are throwing in our big screen. Which is a problem with when you do something for TV. The TV will always want you to have the juicy part. So if you are going to have a program about polygamy, you must always see your wife's fighting. But now it is not helping in this aspect because then it's like the only story you have about it, it's a sad story. It's a sad story. It's showing us the success story of polygamy. The witchcraft into it, they throw in. The witchcraft, the detail, they throw in. As much as we don't... have the complete success story of monogamy. Monogamy is the one that produces side chicks and all this toxic monogamy and it's kito. You know, if I join in, I go to the lanus, I go to the kito and all of that. These are all products of toxic monogamy and nobody's addressing that. So we need to always have this balanced view of things. But then you look at that, you'll find a woman who will leave a marriage and... have a side chick somewhere else and you ask yourself that doesn't make sense she should leave a cheating husband to go and become a side yes of somebody else yes or live a marriage where it was monogamous to be who polo game then you ask yourself okay what changed so those things happen on a regular basis because people like to put things in a box and package it differently without understanding uguchi Maybe that marriage didn't work because you were built to be a wife of a polygamist. To play that role in there. You can't start a marriage on your own without the help of your sister wives. Because effectively, that's what it is. You can't run polygamy with one wife. You need to get more. And as they grow, your role changes. And you adjust. You tweak a few things. If you were used to being the two of you, you need to know. Which will keep. number three years or number four years and you work well together and then you put yourself in the mindset you could see when you were alone the role that these other sister wives play these laloma side chicks yeah which you didn't know oh so so these laloma side chicks they are just brought in the house they are officialized i like the fact that um i think you put into a proper context because people will say this woman she was just married to this one man and then she left to become a second wife, a third wife somewhere. But also it's because polygamy is a rare opulence. If we speak of it now in its proper context, it's a rare opulence. It's not what they try to represent it as if it's the lowest thing. One wise woman made an observation and wrote it there on Facebook that women in polygamy are very beautiful. Women in polygamy are very brilliant. Well... The society has this thing that women in polygamy is like they're not so brilliant or there's something wrong with them that or there's something that is short about them. And why would they allow themselves to be wives of the same man? Are you disparate? So they are not looking at the fact that not every man is a marriage material. As much as they say not every woman is a marriage material. And that's why there's so many side chicks. And that's why there's so many side chicks. Yeah. Okay. I know we can talk about polygamy. It will never end. It will never end. Because it is an evolving, it is a returning. practice. I mean, as much as people are saying we are reviving the African culture, we are reviving it in its totality. You know, hubungoma, African spirituality, polygamy, all of these things. So eventually it's one of the things that is also in the forefront in the debate. The only problem I find is that why is it that monogamy is allowed to question polygamy? It's always people who are in monogamy who have questions about polygamy. And we're even trying to prescribe it for you how it should go. That, yeah, the way you are doing it, you're not doing it wrong, right. I always, when I explain some of this, there is a difference between polygamous relationship and polygamous marriage. In America, because polygamy is called biogamy and it is outlawed, it is forbidden. But there are a lot of polygamous practitioners, so they are not necessarily polygamous marriage, they are polygamous relationship. Even in our society, there are a lot of people who are in a polygamous relationship. Because the queens he's involved with, they are not necessarily married to him. But it is still polygamy nevertheless. Because polygamy is about these women involve this one particular man. And they all know about it. And they're all communicating. And they're not even having fights over it. So when he's not here, you know where to look for him. And ask who about, his whereabouts. So it becomes different in that way. And this is what is happening now. There is a lot of polygamous relationship as opposed to polygamous marriage. Of course, relationships always graduate into marriage. Nobody comes together today and marries tomorrow. They still say, take time to know her. I find monogamy being very short-tempered with that period of taking time to know a person. Yeah, we take our time, but we don't know how to do it. We think about it, but we don't know how to do it. We don't know how to do it. But you're already asking about Amalobolawaki. So I find that monogamy has no respect for polygamy. Monogamy is arrogant to think it can question polygamy. It is arrogant to think it can prescribe polygamy. While monogamy, it is not polygamy, but it's trying to tell you the best way to practice it. But it is this monotheistic monogamous monoconcept. a society of Europeanism that we are living in. So, yeah, and that needs to be clarified along with everything that we are clarifying about African culture, African spirituality, African personality, African continent itself. And you see, what I'm finding interesting about the new or the recent polygamist relationships is that the woman, like you said, They're younger and they're prettier. They're independent. So you can see that it's not about we want a man to support us in some way. It's just being in a relationship. And I think it's understanding, Buti, any person, including us women, you can love more than one person. There's more than one soulmate for a person. You're not tied up to that one person. You can love more than one person. And once you understand that, Buti, You have your own love language that works for you. And it's the same. And that's why I think most women, younger women, are taking liking into polygamy. Because you realize instead of a side chick who's going to be named homewrecker, I'd rather be in a formal polygamy relationship where we do things and I get what I want. And that's where I think things are changing. And that's why the women are becoming more younger. Unlike before, where it was a certain age of woman. Or woman in Kulinabo. And then, you know, Bungenoa. I mean, the traditional thing that's done. Makshone, the husband. Umakotuangenoa. That was another way they were doing a polygame. But this is straight from, hey, I meet you. And I become one of your women. and so forth. So it's not limiting to that traditional and that culture. That's why Ndigu polygamy yeah i think voluntarily actually you're addressing a very important thing because you see we are existing in a neo-african culture now a neo-african culture is obviously a product of neo-colonialism neo-colonialism created this cultural space whereby we articulate africa in english oh yeah yeah we articulate our africanness in english people are even say but you say you but you're speaking in english oh i get it all the time yeah but then even on those social media platforms like TikTok. But the reality is, as much as we are getting back into our Africanness, we're getting back into our Africanness as a collective, as a continent, as a nation. If you're going to be speaking like now in this platform, in a society, how many South Africans are going to hear you? Exactly. I understand. If I'm going to be articulating what we're articulating now in this page, try to prove that I'm African, how many South Africans are going to hear me? So it is this neo-African culture that is putting us to talk in a language that is universally understood. It might not necessarily be our own language, which it is not, but it is a medium of understanding, which we still use. And that's not even stop us from decolonizing because we are decolonizing, we are conscientizing in the same language, like the student of 76. Yeah. when they were protesting against Africans, you know. They were writing their pamphlets in English. We don't want Africans. The oppressor's language. As if English is not an oppressor's language. And actually, the English was more of the oppressor's language. Africans oppressed black people in South Africa and Namibia. But English oppressed people everywhere in the world. Actually, every six days, there is a country that is celebrating independence from England. Around the world. Every six days, literally, for the whole year. That's how much the English colonized the whole world. But because of the protest, they find that they can use English to challenge Africans in expressing that because Africans positioned itself to be aggressively oppressive in the way that, yeah, learn everything in our language. So even now, nobody's forcing us to use the English to articulate what we are saying, but we find it convenient to do that. and to articulate what we're involved in, in bringing up our African culture, our African, our decolonization process. So, yeah, and then they will be saying, we're Sangoma, but we're speaking English. And then who said Sangoma can't speak English? You know? So, yeah. No, but, you know, there's so much. Everything starts with ourselves. I think we're looking so much to the outside world and we're expecting the outside world to help us fix us. We can't. We need to look at ourselves, accept where we went wrong, accept where we gave in and allowed ourselves to be colonized and come back, work together as Africans and we'll win it. Yeah, yeah. No, we will. We will. The unity. That continental unity, that cultural unity, that spiritual unity, that intellectual unity, it is important that we get to win this thing. And hence, we were talking about the unity of the black family unit in the context of spirituality and sexuality, in the context of the black power couples, black couples working together within the same spiritual spaces. you know assist one another it shouldn't be a burden and in that way we get a different approach i think it is about the changing of the mindset relook at this thing differently and then we will arrive at a different view of them yeah and you see part of changing a mindset is the one thing that i would love our black people black couples to focus on and start doing as a woman i'm tired of having children who don't know their fathers I don't need to deprive my child of their father. And vice versa. Because I believe there are men that do that as well. But as a parent, you need to understand the role that you play in this child's life. At some point, in fact, all the time, they need to know their other parent. Your love alone as a mother, your love alone as a father, it's not enough. There's a 50-50 thing again. It's everywhere. It's not only in relationships. So even the children, they need to experience the 100% love. If you don't have a child, you don't have a child. It's not my problem as the mom. I know my place as a biological mother should be content with it. As long as the father is playing his role in the child's life, as long as the father is involved, that's enough. If I'm playing my role as a mother, as the other parent, that's 50-50, 100, I will always have both parents and an additional of the extended family in the form of a stepmother or stepfather. Even at that step, I don't like. But they have that. Now they're having 150% because it's the mother and the father and the 50% from the additional member. So we are depriving our children of that because we're not understanding the power of pushing that holistic family dynamics, African culture. I think the bitter breakups that we resort to as black couples, that people prefer bitter breakups. They can't just break up amicably, peacefully. Now, the bitter breakups affect the life of a child involved in that. And then the second part is the one you did mention of weaponizing these 50 parts of things. That is either you're going to weaponize the fact that the Azanga Gubbe Nintla Uloyamda. Yes. Or Azanga Abiyi Kualumdan. So using all these cultural norms and mores to continue weaponizing the space and creating a rift between the child and the other parent, be it the mother or the father. Or the father, yeah. So because we are addicted to just weaponize everything. Cultural norms, maintenance, anything, anything. Because we have made the whole thing about ourselves. That because of Sifluga, I'll give him a tough time. I'll give him a hard time. But that's where we need to move away from. Not everything is about you. Especially as a parent, the child did not ask to be brought into this world. So even if Sifluga doesn't know, he will still know. But the common goal is to maintain that and manage it. And you'll have the happiest children. There are so many... children who are un-living themselves now. And when you look at most of them, it's always about the parent. Oh mama this, oh baba this. And they can't even vocalize it because we don't allow them to talk to us openly. I don't want them to say, oh mama, you don't do this, that. Oh baba. Because if they don't do it, I brought you into this world. I'll take you out. And then oh baba will remind them, oh mama all the time, but I pay the school fees. So we need to move away from that and remember... Tradition, culture, generation. It doesn't end with us. Labanto is not cool. And if we're trying to move back to African spirituality, it starts there. You know these children that we're neglecting now. What do we think is going to happen to them? They're not going to be two years old forever, five years old forever. They're not cool and want to know their identity. And I promise you, if you think Umda Nako will hate you for little things that you do, the biggest... thing umtana will hate you for is depriving them of their other parents when you had a choice of allowing them access to the other part to the other parent as in it there is this tendency of trying to you know in south africa everything it works by connection and hot spot you know so the hot spot hate you know the hot spot animosity that my child must continue my fight You can't have a good relationship. To inherit enemies. To inherit enemies. Yeah, make the children inherit enemies. And unfortunately, their first enemy become their other parent. So they grew up fighting the battles of their parents. They don't even know how did they break up. Some of them, they broke up while their parents, their parents broke up while they were very little. So they only have one story, the single story. The one story. Yeah, they just have only one story and they're holding on that one story. But you see, it goes back to that black love. It starts there. from families. When you're an adult, you don't see why if you survive, you grew up well, so you think. And then you expect your child to be like that. So that's where this black love thing comes from. We saw O Mama surviving at home without O Baba and we're thinking it's okay, but it's not. But we think it's okay because mom never talks about it. Mom wears the masculine and the feminine hat all the time. So you as a child, you're thinking, okay, it's okay. So now when you're an adult, you get into a relationship, your man or your woman leaves you. You're like, okay, oh, mama did this. And times were tougher then. Now they... easier. I work, I'm independent, I'll cope with my child. And now you carry on the whole thing. So black love is bigger than what we think. It's not only romantic, it starts with families, our parents and our children, what they see now from us, you know, what we do. So it's a whole lot of work that still needs to be done. Because even our parents'black love, your parents apologizing to you as a child when they've done something wrong to you, that's black love. But our parents don't because they don't want to be called black. That's black love. But they still have a way to call it. I don't know if it was you who did that. Somebody said black families when they apologize. But they don't call it a drink. They just say it's a drink. Exactly. You know that they apologize. And that's it. It's done. Yeah. So it starts there. You know these little things. That's how we... build the black love, the black family, promote it holistically. So we need to understand the black language. They might not necessarily come and kneel down to you and apologize. They'll just say, you know that, okay, that's it. You know that they're making it up for something else. Yes. So, and then we are conditioning this Eurocentric way. We say, we apologize. That time when I said apologize, I said, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. That's apologetic. But I mean, there's so many ways. If you still have parents that are alive now, we need to teach them because some of the angry adults that can't be in working, functional, black love relationships is because they're still dealing with wounds from their family. So if you still have parents, coach them. Our parents don't believe in... in psychologists, in therapy. Why are you depressed? TV is there. You're not a wife. You're depressed. And they don't understand. And you tell them you need therapy. Talk to me. And my mother-in-law is like, you can't make demands. I'm the mother. So as children now, when you have parents in their life, teach them. Like love. Mom, hug me. When I go home, I still kiss my dad. We still kiss each other. We kiss each other as sisters. I mean, I'll talk to my mom or my dad. And the other day I was amazed for the first time in my life, my dad was going wherever and he kissed my mom. I was like, okay, can we start again? I need to take a photo for this. But it's those things. So at my age, when I'm seeing that for the first time, I'm sure they did this when I was growing up. For me, it's like, wow, you know? So something is changing me. So we need to promote that within our families. So we need to have more positive images of ourselves in order to build our self-image, in order to move away from this psychology of self-hate. We need to have good stories. We need to have a... Because we're a traumatized nation. We have a lot of traumas. And we internalize those traumas. And some of them, we just sweep them under the carpet. But they manifest in different ways. The same match we trip over every time we pass. Yeah. But we're okay because it's our problems. So, yeah. Black love, I mean, I think it's spread. It's not only romantically and relationship-based. It's for everyone. Yeah. So as part of our decolonization and again deconstruction, it's always important to return to our ancestors'consciousness in order to define our current consciousness. Because not everything in the past was dark and gloom. No. Not everything in the past was filled with ignorance and all of that. We just need to understand the cultural context and the historical context of why things were done the way they were done as opposed to now. Because right now, we're heavily influenced by Eurocentrism. You know, I was checking and going through our history that gender-based violence was never part of our culture. Yeah. It is part of our colonized culture. Yes. Our modern colonized culture is full of... That is the one that gave us the corporal punishment, the beating. I look at the women who used to be our teachers during the apartheid days. Half of them are not married. In my own analysis, I'm thinking, these women, they were having issues. Because they will beat the hell out of you. And they had the most creative way of inflicting punishment. I know another one who came with pens and put them here. and twist your fingers and then another one another one sometimes it depends where they are moved they come three of them you know we have those desks like when they are done with you they inflicted pain all over your body like you know These things were within the Eurocentric schools. Schools that were brought to us by colonialism. And they permeated that beating so much. And they had the biblical justification for it. There's a verse in the Bible that says, you spare the rot, you spoil the child. I think it's in the Proverbs of Solomon. So they had justification because, you see, what they call Bantu education then, the education created for black people. The European name for it was Christian National Education. That is why you had to go to assembly. Oh, yes. And be instilled this particular religion, you know. And then you had this particular subject, which was called BIPS. Oh, yes. Biblical Studies. Yes. Where you are taught about Adam and Eve and the talking snake and all of that stuff, you know. So there was a particular indoctrination that was instilled. But that indoctrination had to do with a lot of corporal punishment. Physical punishment. But then what happens now? The kids that were from that era. Some of us don't even want to have kids because you're thinking, others don't even want to be teachers because you're thinking of what you went through. Others don't even want to go to a sundwin because of how everything was just impounded on us. Because it wasn't introduced with love. Anything that was introduced with hate and... anger whatever that's what we don't you know to associate with yeah yeah there was a whole lot of pain involved in that process of upbringing and and somehow uh contributing and contributed to gender-based violence because if you have a violent society as we were i mean apart it was a violent crime very violent it was enforced by sham box tear gas rubber bullets and you The fathers were enforcing their authority. It was very common to see fathers beating wives. It wasn't an oddity. Mothers beating you. I was like, I'm trapped. When I knew that. Now, where else to be told? Lindo mama kabui or baba kabui. So you're sitting there all two hours waiting for this other parent to knock off so that they can deal with you. And even then, it wasn't discussed. You didn't even know half the time what you did. Because maubuza, I mean, ubuza mean. So we always had these gray areas. And that's why even Namanji, I mean, I look at my children now. They will ask me, you know, when you smack us, you do what your mother did to you. You don't want us to cry, but you just smack me. I'm in pain. So then you start thinking like, oh, shit, they're actually right. I'm still doing the same things that my parents did. Yes. They slap you while you're in pain. It's only that example they like to show. It's a violent society we come from. And it's bad because that cannot all be attributed to our culture. No, it's not. It's so bad that everything that is negative, we always say it's African culture. It's African culture. It's our culture. It's our culture. No, it wasn't our culture. It is something that interrupted our culture. It's something that was imposed on our culture. Like in this case, the violent system of apartheid, how it created that vicious cycle of violence. That moved from the workplace to the family, to the street, to the social life. I remember one of the scenarios, I think. Pirates was playing with some long time ago. And then there was the man called China Tongwan, a big man, you know, stepping him live on a TV or on a thing. And then there was also some teams when they play this team but keep your oka up, you know, the latest was when South Africa was playing, I think it was Kef. They were in the Congo. I don't know if you saw that in the Congo. And then these Congolese soldiers were holding guns, intimidating South African players. You know, like, we Bahambe goalkeeper, we Bahambe Sagbonis. So we had a time when this type of intimidation, fear mechanism was put in. And I'm glad that things have been put out there, that no corporal punishment in schools, which needs to be enforced in society, although they have been misrepresented. Oh, it means we can't discipline our children. Now, Abandona Banyama rise and what. But it just means there has to be a different way of communicating. It's not all about... communicating through violence. But you see, that's where it brings a different twist because now it forces us as families to sit at that dinner table instead of watching TV and talk about your behavior, understand why did you act the way you did. That's the form of sorting this thing instead of talking with a belt. But that's what we don't know how to do. But we are also having a generation, a very fragile generation, who have a... fragile egos that needs to be brushed all the time because you're talking to a child here he's he's he's taking offense in effect that you are sitting them down and and and talking about their their behavior their unruly behavior you know and then you end up saying mom you can't talk to me like that you know and then you wonder how effectively can you communicate a behavior change without them being defensive or sometimes taking offense in what you say, how you're saying things, not what you're saying. Because how you're saying it can be also affected by the level of their problem, the problem they created. I mean, if you smash a window, or the neighbor, the big window, that window is 500 rand. How best are you going to communicate that to your child? Pull a fence there. It's a 500 rand communication. It's a $500 communication. It's an expensive mistake. It's when you realize that some mistakes are very costly. So as we communicate, I think we need to also look at how we communicate, whatever we are communicating. Otherwise, we find a problem also that communication is taken from the what instead of the how instead of the what. What is communicated here is that you have made something wrong. You don't need to do that. You have to behave. You have to, you know, so yeah. But then back to black love, black holistic relationships. It starts there. Communicating. Being able to communicate freely on what you want, how you want it. And understanding, Guti, it's not about me. It's about us. You know, you came from your family, I came to mine, we became one. And the whole goal is to build, not to break. So spiritually, we grow together. Emotionally, mentally, we grow together. Well, I think communication is not only about throwing out words, but it's also about choice of words. Because you might be communicating something very important, but the choice of words that you're using becomes offensive. Yes. And therefore misrepresent what you are trying to convey. And I think this is where the current generation is struggling with. The choice of words. I hear it's a communication. Because you still have communication that are offensive to the next person. And they are dying in the name of communicating. And people are saying, yeah, but I'm telling you my feelings. But you know, hurt people hurt people. Sometimes people, because they are talking from a hurt point of view. they hurt others in the process of expressing their feelings. That is why in South Africa, they have a saying that rights comes with responsibility. If you have a right to communicate your feelings, but then it comes with the responsibility of choice of words. Choice of words, yeah. Like how you put it. That's why I say, you can't say whatever. We don't say, When you see your father drunk, there's no such thing as And then the modern generation said, no, but I'm telling the truth. Thinking, no, it's not what you're saying. It's how you're saying is the choice of ways. And the choice of ways have cultural context is the culture. Because when you say you are civilized, it's to be civil. Now to be civil is about our mannerism. It's about the humanization of the human. Now how do you humanize the human? You humanize the human through mannerism, through behavior, through cultural practices, through cultural norms. You know, inside the bus, you can't say, you still have to stand up for him. So that is to be civil. And that is culture now. You know, and that is what we call boot. Yes, yeah. So now we're having a generation that want to say whatever they want to say because it is their right to say it. And they are not saying it within a cultural context of respect because respect is still key. It's still key. You can correct a person fundamentally in a most respectful way. The first march I led 24 years ago, we marched into Union Building as the Rastafari, 20 years ago. We reached there, we burned our ganja sticks there by the steps of the Union Building. Then we visited the chanting, chant down Babylon, you know. So we were getting emotional and the white policemen were there, they come, they arrogantly kick our fires and whatever. So the more they do that, the more I get worked up, you know. And I said to say, judgment, fire upon them, you know. So the people, the masses were worked up. Somebody came very nicely and whispered to my ears and said, my Lord, it is going to depend entirely on you that we are going home or we are going to jail today. Or we are going to be beaten or we are going to walk out of here. So in a nice way, he talked sense to me. While I'm in that height of emotionalism and everything, I don't want to hear it. Because the reason dawned on me. He didn't have to say, when I was a child, I was a militant. But he just came and whispered nicely, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. So you decide. You are the leader here. So you decide you're going to lead us to jail? or you're going to lead us back home. And then it quickly came up. So there was a Roman philosopher called Marcus Aurelius. Marcus Aurelius had a slave whose job was to stand behind him. When he's at frenzy and busy, giving his arousing speech and talking, the slave's job was to say to him, remember you are a man. Remember you are a man. So when he's getting there and forgetting that he's a man now, he's claiming to be a god on earth. And there was this humble voice from a slave, not even someone of his class. He said, remember thou art a man. Remember thou art a man. So he did not have the inner voice. He had the black man as a slave as an inner voice for him. So we must always have our inner voice to remind us that, remember, you are talking to the next human being. So talk to them properly. Remember. You are talking to Omdom Dala, talk to him properly. Remember, you're talking to your parents, talk to him properly. Remember, you're talking to your wife, talk to her properly. So as we are reaching the conclusion of our conversation, we are saying that menace and respect. Menace make a man. We can't talk of African culture without talking about respect. We can't talk about family. Black family without talking about respect for each other. We can't talk about Ubuntu without talking about respect. Your final words. You see, it ties up. I like your closing points about respect and how you talk. Our relationships, if you look at our mothers and fathers, you'll never hear, no matter how wrong Ubaba is, you'll never hear, oh mama, I'm correct in front of everyone. That was the generation then. Uzua, Tula. They would be in jail quietly. But now, Connor, you're sugar-coated. You don't say, ha, Baba. You say, I'm your Baba. You're my father. Which is what we lack now. Yeah, and we're proud of that. We're proud of that. Give me my jellies. Yeah, and the current generation will be like, we're not like our parents. We're not in jail. Yeah, and in jail, you're in front of other people. People, yeah. And this is the husband that you're supposed to respect. Everybody's supposed to respect. And when, as a woman, you're raising your voice, Instead of being that quiet slave, I'm actually letting go of my own life. Exactly. So it is still how you say it, not what you say it, which matters the most. And that will help us to build proper black families, learned from our own mothers and fathers. Because my father passed away 40-something years ago. My mother still... And... But my mother still talked very fondly of him. Yes. You know, because they had a way to correct each other. Yes. And this is what we should learn from the older generation. Yeah, and stop saying, we're not like older generation and getting out here and being disrespectful. And being disrespected. And people feeling disrespected. And we're thinking we're expressing our right. We have the right to express ourselves. But rights goes with responsibility. So if we are going to have our right head, we must also have a responsibility to express them in such a way that they can be well received. without causing animosity or antagonism. Well said. So this is the one black love we put to you, one perfect black love we put to our black family out there. Let's love one another. Let's respect one another. Be kind. Let us be kind to one another. Let us remember that we are dealing with multiple traumas and therefore we are here to help one another heal than to be saying to one another that... you are not healed as if yourself you are healed. And seeing other people that, I did a video about the weight of the day. And then it was like, give us a weight of the day. And I was like, don't give other people weight of the day when you are still damaged yourself. So if we are going out there to advise people how they should live, we must begin by advising ourselves too. And our deliverance must be important. We mustn't be... offending in the process of trying to build. We're here to rebuild. We're dealing with nation building, social cohesion, moral regeneration. Would it be right to say, if you're in a glass house, don't throw stones? Yes. When you're living in a glass house, don't throw stones. Yeah. That is basically what it is. Can't afford to throw stones while you yourself are living in a glass house. Yes. Yeah. That was beautiful. Yes. Black love. One black love, one perfect black love. Let us love one another unconditionally. It's important to remember that. We just love, you know? Yeah. And in that way, we will be able to heal a lot of wounds that are existing in our society because we need to heal. Yeah, true. Unpopular opinion, Tautau Haramanuba with Indro Vugazi, Punyuga Bampet, signing out.

These are our opinion and these are unpopular. We're talking about the African love, the black love, the black holistic love. And then we then touch also the issue of family.

Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, take us through. So. family is important it's a family tree for a reason it starts school bom kulu okoko you know great grandfathers great grandmothers and it filters through to our generation so as black people to understand ourselves holistically is you need to understand the family tree and you need to understand what each male figure especially how they contributed to where we are now in our generation, either in the relationships or the family as a whole, you know, what did they bring to the table, you know, are we economically, do we have all the things, you know, material things, was it because the great-grandfather had some business that he tried, you know, building their legacy coming all the way down, because that's how this holistic family and relationships start growing.

you know family that works together prays together does everything together um if you look at other nations they're good at that so we need to build that hold it down as black people black couple and just see how it grows yeah yeah so it's quite important for us to to to build that tree we need to yeah which is which is actually for a reason why they call it a family tree As my brother was saying earlier in the conversation, that even the very notion of polygamy is just a colonial imposition that was imposed on us. We find ourselves using European concepts to define these African phenomenons. And interestingly, he put it in the context of a tree. And when you look at the tree, a tree with many branches and many fruits, and from a holistic point of view, it is all seen as one family.

Just a... One family with many branches, many leaves, many fruits that come out of it. And contributing to the building of a society because the building block of a society is a family.

It is. And if you look at that tree on its own, it's being held by one big roots, which is grounded. And as women, we need our men. to be masculine, to hold that root down. And we as women become those little branches that come here and there.

We are the leaves and you support each other. You know, seasons change. The one leaf falls, but the other one is there to carry it. The branches are still holding it and the tree still stands. Yeah, yeah.

Interesting phenomena of the tree. Because we have a saying that even the pillar of the family, when he passed, they say the great tree has fallen. Yes.

And you are looking now in terms of the tree, that the bearer of the fruits, the one that keep every branch and the stems together, is no more there. So it is important to always build on our family trees. Yes, and grow that legacy so that when that tree has fallen, when it hasn't fallen, there's one that's already been groomed. by understanding the tradition, understanding the culture, understanding everything that happens in this family, you know, spiritually as well, so that you continue with those things so that you don't have the problems we're having now about spirituality and families because no one knows where they come from, the clan names they fall.

So while that branch is still there solid, it must... It is good that one of the things that is very prevalent now is our people... are getting into this position of understanding their family tree through their totems through their eponyms through their genealogies and chronology as to where do they come from and how did they evolve to where they are so it's good that that is forming part of ours sangkoffing um very interesting phenomena when you go in the realm of family that um What we don't understand, most of the things that are there, companies, businesses are family entities.

You go to Oriental Plaza there, you find shops where in the shop you find about three women who are in charge of three teals in the same shop. And you learn later that they are the wives of Mr. Ahmed or Mr. whoever those Indian men, Arab men who are running things. So it's basically the notion of...

entrepreneurial polygamy. What's your understanding of entrepreneurial polygamy? First, my sisters, again, women, you need to understand the role that you each play in that man's life. What you each bring to the table, because you're not all the same.

I might be bringing a certain skill where I will be the one that runs the finances of the company. The other one is good at marketing. you know, for our company. And the other one is good at, you know, the daily runnings of the company. So once you understand that there's no competition, and what people see, they see unity throughout.

And those are the, that's where polygamy works effectively, not how people think it's all about the men and his sexuality and that it's not. You're coming, there's an individual, you're bringing whatever to the table, to the same big table. And when you throw all those things in, you get a big family that works effortlessly and successfully. And the business runs and you grow and you're able to leave something to your children and, you know, grow.

To go together. It's quite interesting because we have examples of those families working like I just mentioned, Oriental Plaza. or any place where you can get Indian communities concentrated with their businesses or the Arabs. Because I think within the religion of Islam, it is practiced polygamy.

You are allowed to marry about four wives or so. But it becomes said that when it comes to the black experiences, you get a lot of black people who talk about the negativity of polygamy. They'll start to tell you that, oh...

my grandmother was part of it, her experiences was not nice, my so-so was part of it, the experiences was not nice. Is it part of this general psychology of self-hate or is the fact that we black people, we seem not to getting anything correct? I think it's a mixture of everything and the spirit of competing, especially with women. I doubt if there was ever polygamy of men with one woman, you'd have half. the nonsense that we have.

But I think with women, it's more the competing and not understanding the role that you play in that family, in that man's life. Because here's the thing, not everyone is blessed with being married to one man. Already the equation is ours. So if you have the opportunity to be part of this one household with this one man, It's important for you as a woman to understand the role you bring.

In that way, you also work towards making the experience work. You won't be the one saying to people out there when they say, how is it like being in a polygamist relationship or marriage as a woman? And Ruzang Jela would say, you know, my sister, wife is like this or like that. You're focusing on what you're doing. As long as your man is happy, the kids are happy, the household is running.

I don't see why it should not work. There is a saying that black women love everything about, or these woke women of today who are into Africa, this Africa that love everything about Africa or African culture except polygamy. Just like there is a saying that black people hate everything about colonialism except Christianity.

Just like a saying that Abba Zalwani hate everything about African culture except no bono. Yeah. They never reject the love of Allah. So there is this bad tendency of you embracing everything except this one particular...

There's always this one thing you need. This one thing that you don't take it in its totality. And yet we will be talking about total liberation. We'll be talking about...

totally emancipation we talk about it like these things we are talking about today african spirituality this is africa's new philosophy of redemption where we're trying to redeem ourselves and it is best that we do we deal with this thing in its totality yeah yeah i've addressed the issue of the berlin conference even in this particular platform that um the europeans they said in berlin for about three months 15 days and you asked what were they doing doing for three months and 15 days They were discussing how to colonialize us holistically, completely, totally. And now when we try to decolonize, we decolonize piecemeal. Hate everything about colonialism except this powerful part of colonialism called Christianity.

Love everything about Africa except this part of African family system. Hate everything about African culture, but you love this one particular thing called Nogbola. So.

So we need to embrace the totality of ourselves if we're going to totally emancipate. So which is said that we find it hard to find examples from ourselves. But I've seen some good examples. There is one good, I'll call him a brethren, although he's a couple of years older than me. He's running his thing there.

Now he has taken his nine-one wife. He invited me to his setup, his church, his spiritual center, his home. And they are quite young women. I'm not talking about old women.

I talk about these modern women, educated women and what. But the cooperation that is going on there, the working together, the beauty of the family system, the beauty of his team, it is something else. And I thought this is one of the good examples, because one of the examples that they are throwing in our big screen.

Which is a problem with when you do something for TV. The TV will always want you to have the juicy part. So if you are going to have a program about polygamy, you must always see your wife's fighting. But now it is not helping in this aspect because then it's like the only story you have about it, it's a sad story.

It's a sad story. It's showing us the success story of polygamy. The witchcraft into it, they throw in. The witchcraft, the detail, they throw in.

As much as we don't... have the complete success story of monogamy. Monogamy is the one that produces side chicks and all this toxic monogamy and it's kito.

You know, if I join in, I go to the lanus, I go to the kito and all of that. These are all products of toxic monogamy and nobody's addressing that. So we need to always have this balanced view of things. But then you look at that, you'll find a woman who will leave a marriage and... have a side chick somewhere else and you ask yourself that doesn't make sense she should leave a cheating husband to go and become a side yes of somebody else yes or live a marriage where it was monogamous to be who polo game then you ask yourself okay what changed so those things happen on a regular basis because people like to put things in a box and package it differently without understanding uguchi Maybe that marriage didn't work because you were built to be a wife of a polygamist.

To play that role in there. You can't start a marriage on your own without the help of your sister wives. Because effectively, that's what it is.

You can't run polygamy with one wife. You need to get more. And as they grow, your role changes.

And you adjust. You tweak a few things. If you were used to being the two of you, you need to know.

Which will keep. number three years or number four years and you work well together and then you put yourself in the mindset you could see when you were alone the role that these other sister wives play these laloma side chicks yeah which you didn't know oh so so these laloma side chicks they are just brought in the house they are officialized i like the fact that um i think you put into a proper context because people will say this woman she was just married to this one man and then she left to become a second wife, a third wife somewhere. But also it's because polygamy is a rare opulence.

If we speak of it now in its proper context, it's a rare opulence. It's not what they try to represent it as if it's the lowest thing. One wise woman made an observation and wrote it there on Facebook that women in polygamy are very beautiful.

Women in polygamy are very brilliant. Well... The society has this thing that women in polygamy is like they're not so brilliant or there's something wrong with them that or there's something that is short about them. And why would they allow themselves to be wives of the same man?

Are you disparate? So they are not looking at the fact that not every man is a marriage material. As much as they say not every woman is a marriage material. And that's why there's so many side chicks.

And that's why there's so many side chicks. Yeah. Okay.

I know we can talk about polygamy. It will never end. It will never end.

Because it is an evolving, it is a returning. practice. I mean, as much as people are saying we are reviving the African culture, we are reviving it in its totality. You know, hubungoma, African spirituality, polygamy, all of these things. So eventually it's one of the things that is also in the forefront in the debate.

The only problem I find is that why is it that monogamy is allowed to question polygamy? It's always people who are in monogamy who have questions about polygamy. And we're even trying to prescribe it for you how it should go.

That, yeah, the way you are doing it, you're not doing it wrong, right. I always, when I explain some of this, there is a difference between polygamous relationship and polygamous marriage. In America, because polygamy is called biogamy and it is outlawed, it is forbidden. But there are a lot of polygamous practitioners, so they are not necessarily polygamous marriage, they are polygamous relationship. Even in our society, there are a lot of people who are in a polygamous relationship.

Because the queens he's involved with, they are not necessarily married to him. But it is still polygamy nevertheless. Because polygamy is about these women involve this one particular man. And they all know about it.

And they're all communicating. And they're not even having fights over it. So when he's not here, you know where to look for him. And ask who about, his whereabouts.

So it becomes different in that way. And this is what is happening now. There is a lot of polygamous relationship as opposed to polygamous marriage. Of course, relationships always graduate into marriage.

Nobody comes together today and marries tomorrow. They still say, take time to know her. I find monogamy being very short-tempered with that period of taking time to know a person.

Yeah, we take our time, but we don't know how to do it. We think about it, but we don't know how to do it. We don't know how to do it. But you're already asking about Amalobolawaki. So I find that monogamy has no respect for polygamy.

Monogamy is arrogant to think it can question polygamy. It is arrogant to think it can prescribe polygamy. While monogamy, it is not polygamy, but it's trying to tell you the best way to practice it.

But it is this monotheistic monogamous monoconcept. a society of Europeanism that we are living in. So, yeah, and that needs to be clarified along with everything that we are clarifying about African culture, African spirituality, African personality, African continent itself.

And you see, what I'm finding interesting about the new or the recent polygamist relationships is that the woman, like you said, They're younger and they're prettier. They're independent. So you can see that it's not about we want a man to support us in some way. It's just being in a relationship. And I think it's understanding, Buti, any person, including us women, you can love more than one person.

There's more than one soulmate for a person. You're not tied up to that one person. You can love more than one person. And once you understand that, Buti, You have your own love language that works for you.

And it's the same. And that's why I think most women, younger women, are taking liking into polygamy. Because you realize instead of a side chick who's going to be named homewrecker, I'd rather be in a formal polygamy relationship where we do things and I get what I want.

And that's where I think things are changing. And that's why the women are becoming more younger. Unlike before, where it was a certain age of woman.

Or woman in Kulinabo. And then, you know, Bungenoa. I mean, the traditional thing that's done. Makshone, the husband. Umakotuangenoa.

That was another way they were doing a polygame. But this is straight from, hey, I meet you. And I become one of your women.

and so forth. So it's not limiting to that traditional and that culture. That's why Ndigu polygamy yeah i think voluntarily actually you're addressing a very important thing because you see we are existing in a neo-african culture now a neo-african culture is obviously a product of neo-colonialism neo-colonialism created this cultural space whereby we articulate africa in english oh yeah yeah we articulate our africanness in english people are even say but you say you but you're speaking in english oh i get it all the time yeah but then even on those social media platforms like TikTok. But the reality is, as much as we are getting back into our Africanness, we're getting back into our Africanness as a collective, as a continent, as a nation. If you're going to be speaking like now in this platform, in a society, how many South Africans are going to hear you?

Exactly. I understand. If I'm going to be articulating what we're articulating now in this page, try to prove that I'm African, how many South Africans are going to hear me? So it is this neo-African culture that is putting us to talk in a language that is universally understood.

It might not necessarily be our own language, which it is not, but it is a medium of understanding, which we still use. And that's not even stop us from decolonizing because we are decolonizing, we are conscientizing in the same language, like the student of 76. Yeah. when they were protesting against Africans, you know.

They were writing their pamphlets in English. We don't want Africans. The oppressor's language. As if English is not an oppressor's language.

And actually, the English was more of the oppressor's language. Africans oppressed black people in South Africa and Namibia. But English oppressed people everywhere in the world. Actually, every six days, there is a country that is celebrating independence from England.

Around the world. Every six days, literally, for the whole year. That's how much the English colonized the whole world. But because of the protest, they find that they can use English to challenge Africans in expressing that because Africans positioned itself to be aggressively oppressive in the way that, yeah, learn everything in our language.

So even now, nobody's forcing us to use the English to articulate what we are saying, but we find it convenient to do that. and to articulate what we're involved in, in bringing up our African culture, our African, our decolonization process. So, yeah, and then they will be saying, we're Sangoma, but we're speaking English.

And then who said Sangoma can't speak English? You know? So, yeah.

No, but, you know, there's so much. Everything starts with ourselves. I think we're looking so much to the outside world and we're expecting the outside world to help us fix us. We can't. We need to look at ourselves, accept where we went wrong, accept where we gave in and allowed ourselves to be colonized and come back, work together as Africans and we'll win it.

Yeah, yeah. No, we will. We will.

The unity. That continental unity, that cultural unity, that spiritual unity, that intellectual unity, it is important that we get to win this thing. And hence, we were talking about the unity of the black family unit in the context of spirituality and sexuality, in the context of the black power couples, black couples working together within the same spiritual spaces.

you know assist one another it shouldn't be a burden and in that way we get a different approach i think it is about the changing of the mindset relook at this thing differently and then we will arrive at a different view of them yeah and you see part of changing a mindset is the one thing that i would love our black people black couples to focus on and start doing as a woman i'm tired of having children who don't know their fathers I don't need to deprive my child of their father. And vice versa. Because I believe there are men that do that as well.

But as a parent, you need to understand the role that you play in this child's life. At some point, in fact, all the time, they need to know their other parent. Your love alone as a mother, your love alone as a father, it's not enough.

There's a 50-50 thing again. It's everywhere. It's not only in relationships. So even the children, they need to experience the 100% love. If you don't have a child, you don't have a child.

It's not my problem as the mom. I know my place as a biological mother should be content with it. As long as the father is playing his role in the child's life, as long as the father is involved, that's enough.

If I'm playing my role as a mother, as the other parent, that's 50-50, 100, I will always have both parents and an additional of the extended family in the form of a stepmother or stepfather. Even at that step, I don't like. But they have that.

Now they're having 150% because it's the mother and the father and the 50% from the additional member. So we are depriving our children of that because we're not understanding the power of pushing that holistic family dynamics, African culture. I think the bitter breakups that we resort to as black couples, that people prefer bitter breakups.

They can't just break up amicably, peacefully. Now, the bitter breakups affect the life of a child involved in that. And then the second part is the one you did mention of weaponizing these 50 parts of things. That is either you're going to weaponize the fact that the Azanga Gubbe Nintla Uloyamda.

Yes. Or Azanga Abiyi Kualumdan. So using all these cultural norms and mores to continue weaponizing the space and creating a rift between the child and the other parent, be it the mother or the father. Or the father, yeah.

So because we are addicted to just weaponize everything. Cultural norms, maintenance, anything, anything. Because we have made the whole thing about ourselves. That because of Sifluga, I'll give him a tough time. I'll give him a hard time.

But that's where we need to move away from. Not everything is about you. Especially as a parent, the child did not ask to be brought into this world. So even if Sifluga doesn't know, he will still know.

But the common goal is to maintain that and manage it. And you'll have the happiest children. There are so many...

children who are un-living themselves now. And when you look at most of them, it's always about the parent. Oh mama this, oh baba this.

And they can't even vocalize it because we don't allow them to talk to us openly. I don't want them to say, oh mama, you don't do this, that. Oh baba. Because if they don't do it, I brought you into this world.

I'll take you out. And then oh baba will remind them, oh mama all the time, but I pay the school fees. So we need to move away from that and remember... Tradition, culture, generation.

It doesn't end with us. Labanto is not cool. And if we're trying to move back to African spirituality, it starts there.

You know these children that we're neglecting now. What do we think is going to happen to them? They're not going to be two years old forever, five years old forever.

They're not cool and want to know their identity. And I promise you, if you think Umda Nako will hate you for little things that you do, the biggest... thing umtana will hate you for is depriving them of their other parents when you had a choice of allowing them access to the other part to the other parent as in it there is this tendency of trying to you know in south africa everything it works by connection and hot spot you know so the hot spot hate you know the hot spot animosity that my child must continue my fight You can't have a good relationship. To inherit enemies.

To inherit enemies. Yeah, make the children inherit enemies. And unfortunately, their first enemy become their other parent.

So they grew up fighting the battles of their parents. They don't even know how did they break up. Some of them, they broke up while their parents, their parents broke up while they were very little.

So they only have one story, the single story. The one story. Yeah, they just have only one story and they're holding on that one story.

But you see, it goes back to that black love. It starts there. from families. When you're an adult, you don't see why if you survive, you grew up well, so you think.

And then you expect your child to be like that. So that's where this black love thing comes from. We saw O Mama surviving at home without O Baba and we're thinking it's okay, but it's not.

But we think it's okay because mom never talks about it. Mom wears the masculine and the feminine hat all the time. So you as a child, you're thinking, okay, it's okay.

So now when you're an adult, you get into a relationship, your man or your woman leaves you. You're like, okay, oh, mama did this. And times were tougher then.

Now they... easier. I work, I'm independent, I'll cope with my child. And now you carry on the whole thing. So black love is bigger than what we think.

It's not only romantic, it starts with families, our parents and our children, what they see now from us, you know, what we do. So it's a whole lot of work that still needs to be done. Because even our parents'black love, your parents apologizing to you as a child when they've done something wrong to you, that's black love.

But our parents don't because they don't want to be called black. That's black love. But they still have a way to call it. I don't know if it was you who did that. Somebody said black families when they apologize.

But they don't call it a drink. They just say it's a drink. Exactly. You know that they apologize. And that's it.

It's done. Yeah. So it starts there. You know these little things. That's how we...

build the black love, the black family, promote it holistically. So we need to understand the black language. They might not necessarily come and kneel down to you and apologize. They'll just say, you know that, okay, that's it. You know that they're making it up for something else.

Yes. So, and then we are conditioning this Eurocentric way. We say, we apologize.

That time when I said apologize, I said, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. That's apologetic. But I mean, there's so many ways.

If you still have parents that are alive now, we need to teach them because some of the angry adults that can't be in working, functional, black love relationships is because they're still dealing with wounds from their family. So if you still have parents, coach them. Our parents don't believe in... in psychologists, in therapy.

Why are you depressed? TV is there. You're not a wife. You're depressed. And they don't understand.

And you tell them you need therapy. Talk to me. And my mother-in-law is like, you can't make demands.

I'm the mother. So as children now, when you have parents in their life, teach them. Like love.

Mom, hug me. When I go home, I still kiss my dad. We still kiss each other. We kiss each other as sisters.

I mean, I'll talk to my mom or my dad. And the other day I was amazed for the first time in my life, my dad was going wherever and he kissed my mom. I was like, okay, can we start again? I need to take a photo for this. But it's those things.

So at my age, when I'm seeing that for the first time, I'm sure they did this when I was growing up. For me, it's like, wow, you know? So something is changing me. So we need to promote that within our families. So we need to have more positive images of ourselves in order to build our self-image, in order to move away from this psychology of self-hate.

We need to have good stories. We need to have a... Because we're a traumatized nation. We have a lot of traumas. And we internalize those traumas.

And some of them, we just sweep them under the carpet. But they manifest in different ways. The same match we trip over every time we pass.

Yeah. But we're okay because it's our problems. So, yeah.

Black love, I mean, I think it's spread. It's not only romantically and relationship-based. It's for everyone.

Yeah. So as part of our decolonization and again deconstruction, it's always important to return to our ancestors'consciousness in order to define our current consciousness. Because not everything in the past was dark and gloom.

No. Not everything in the past was filled with ignorance and all of that. We just need to understand the cultural context and the historical context of why things were done the way they were done as opposed to now. Because right now, we're heavily influenced by Eurocentrism.

You know, I was checking and going through our history that gender-based violence was never part of our culture. Yeah. It is part of our colonized culture.

Yes. Our modern colonized culture is full of... That is the one that gave us the corporal punishment, the beating. I look at the women who used to be our teachers during the apartheid days.

Half of them are not married. In my own analysis, I'm thinking, these women, they were having issues. Because they will beat the hell out of you.

And they had the most creative way of inflicting punishment. I know another one who came with pens and put them here. and twist your fingers and then another one another one sometimes it depends where they are moved they come three of them you know we have those desks like when they are done with you they inflicted pain all over your body like you know These things were within the Eurocentric schools.

Schools that were brought to us by colonialism. And they permeated that beating so much. And they had the biblical justification for it. There's a verse in the Bible that says, you spare the rot, you spoil the child. I think it's in the Proverbs of Solomon.

So they had justification because, you see, what they call Bantu education then, the education created for black people. The European name for it was Christian National Education. That is why you had to go to assembly. Oh, yes. And be instilled this particular religion, you know.

And then you had this particular subject, which was called BIPS. Oh, yes. Biblical Studies.

Yes. Where you are taught about Adam and Eve and the talking snake and all of that stuff, you know. So there was a particular indoctrination that was instilled. But that indoctrination had to do with a lot of corporal punishment. Physical punishment.

But then what happens now? The kids that were from that era. Some of us don't even want to have kids because you're thinking, others don't even want to be teachers because you're thinking of what you went through.

Others don't even want to go to a sundwin because of how everything was just impounded on us. Because it wasn't introduced with love. Anything that was introduced with hate and...

anger whatever that's what we don't you know to associate with yeah yeah there was a whole lot of pain involved in that process of upbringing and and somehow uh contributing and contributed to gender-based violence because if you have a violent society as we were i mean apart it was a violent crime very violent it was enforced by sham box tear gas rubber bullets and you The fathers were enforcing their authority. It was very common to see fathers beating wives. It wasn't an oddity. Mothers beating you.

I was like, I'm trapped. When I knew that. Now, where else to be told?

Lindo mama kabui or baba kabui. So you're sitting there all two hours waiting for this other parent to knock off so that they can deal with you. And even then, it wasn't discussed. You didn't even know half the time what you did.

Because maubuza, I mean, ubuza mean. So we always had these gray areas. And that's why even Namanji, I mean, I look at my children now. They will ask me, you know, when you smack us, you do what your mother did to you. You don't want us to cry, but you just smack me.

I'm in pain. So then you start thinking like, oh, shit, they're actually right. I'm still doing the same things that my parents did.

Yes. They slap you while you're in pain. It's only that example they like to show.

It's a violent society we come from. And it's bad because that cannot all be attributed to our culture. No, it's not.

It's so bad that everything that is negative, we always say it's African culture. It's African culture. It's our culture. It's our culture.

No, it wasn't our culture. It is something that interrupted our culture. It's something that was imposed on our culture. Like in this case, the violent system of apartheid, how it created that vicious cycle of violence. That moved from the workplace to the family, to the street, to the social life.

I remember one of the scenarios, I think. Pirates was playing with some long time ago. And then there was the man called China Tongwan, a big man, you know, stepping him live on a TV or on a thing. And then there was also some teams when they play this team but keep your oka up, you know, the latest was when South Africa was playing, I think it was Kef.

They were in the Congo. I don't know if you saw that in the Congo. And then these Congolese soldiers were holding guns, intimidating South African players. You know, like, we Bahambe goalkeeper, we Bahambe Sagbonis.

So we had a time when this type of intimidation, fear mechanism was put in. And I'm glad that things have been put out there, that no corporal punishment in schools, which needs to be enforced in society, although they have been misrepresented. Oh, it means we can't discipline our children. Now, Abandona Banyama rise and what.

But it just means there has to be a different way of communicating. It's not all about... communicating through violence.

But you see, that's where it brings a different twist because now it forces us as families to sit at that dinner table instead of watching TV and talk about your behavior, understand why did you act the way you did. That's the form of sorting this thing instead of talking with a belt. But that's what we don't know how to do.

But we are also having a generation, a very fragile generation, who have a... fragile egos that needs to be brushed all the time because you're talking to a child here he's he's he's taking offense in effect that you are sitting them down and and and talking about their their behavior their unruly behavior you know and then you end up saying mom you can't talk to me like that you know and then you wonder how effectively can you communicate a behavior change without them being defensive or sometimes taking offense in what you say, how you're saying things, not what you're saying. Because how you're saying it can be also affected by the level of their problem, the problem they created.

I mean, if you smash a window, or the neighbor, the big window, that window is 500 rand. How best are you going to communicate that to your child? Pull a fence there. It's a 500 rand communication.

It's a $500 communication. It's an expensive mistake. It's when you realize that some mistakes are very costly. So as we communicate, I think we need to also look at how we communicate, whatever we are communicating.

Otherwise, we find a problem also that communication is taken from the what instead of the how instead of the what. What is communicated here is that you have made something wrong. You don't need to do that. You have to behave. You have to, you know, so yeah.

But then back to black love, black holistic relationships. It starts there. Communicating. Being able to communicate freely on what you want, how you want it. And understanding, Guti, it's not about me.

It's about us. You know, you came from your family, I came to mine, we became one. And the whole goal is to build, not to break.

So spiritually, we grow together. Emotionally, mentally, we grow together. Well, I think communication is not only about throwing out words, but it's also about choice of words.

Because you might be communicating something very important, but the choice of words that you're using becomes offensive. Yes. And therefore misrepresent what you are trying to convey.

And I think this is where the current generation is struggling with. The choice of words. I hear it's a communication. Because you still have communication that are offensive to the next person. And they are dying in the name of communicating.

And people are saying, yeah, but I'm telling you my feelings. But you know, hurt people hurt people. Sometimes people, because they are talking from a hurt point of view. they hurt others in the process of expressing their feelings.

That is why in South Africa, they have a saying that rights comes with responsibility. If you have a right to communicate your feelings, but then it comes with the responsibility of choice of words. Choice of words, yeah. Like how you put it.

That's why I say, you can't say whatever. We don't say, When you see your father drunk, there's no such thing as And then the modern generation said, no, but I'm telling the truth. Thinking, no, it's not what you're saying.

It's how you're saying is the choice of ways. And the choice of ways have cultural context is the culture. Because when you say you are civilized, it's to be civil.

Now to be civil is about our mannerism. It's about the humanization of the human. Now how do you humanize the human?

You humanize the human through mannerism, through behavior, through cultural practices, through cultural norms. You know, inside the bus, you can't say, you still have to stand up for him. So that is to be civil. And that is culture now. You know, and that is what we call boot.

Yes, yeah. So now we're having a generation that want to say whatever they want to say because it is their right to say it. And they are not saying it within a cultural context of respect because respect is still key.

It's still key. You can correct a person fundamentally in a most respectful way. The first march I led 24 years ago, we marched into Union Building as the Rastafari, 20 years ago.

We reached there, we burned our ganja sticks there by the steps of the Union Building. Then we visited the chanting, chant down Babylon, you know. So we were getting emotional and the white policemen were there, they come, they arrogantly kick our fires and whatever.

So the more they do that, the more I get worked up, you know. And I said to say, judgment, fire upon them, you know. So the people, the masses were worked up.

Somebody came very nicely and whispered to my ears and said, my Lord, it is going to depend entirely on you that we are going home or we are going to jail today. Or we are going to be beaten or we are going to walk out of here. So in a nice way, he talked sense to me. While I'm in that height of emotionalism and everything, I don't want to hear it.

Because the reason dawned on me. He didn't have to say, when I was a child, I was a militant. But he just came and whispered nicely, I don't want to hear it.

I don't want to hear it. So you decide. You are the leader here. So you decide you're going to lead us to jail?

or you're going to lead us back home. And then it quickly came up. So there was a Roman philosopher called Marcus Aurelius. Marcus Aurelius had a slave whose job was to stand behind him. When he's at frenzy and busy, giving his arousing speech and talking, the slave's job was to say to him, remember you are a man.

Remember you are a man. So when he's getting there and forgetting that he's a man now, he's claiming to be a god on earth. And there was this humble voice from a slave, not even someone of his class. He said, remember thou art a man.

Remember thou art a man. So he did not have the inner voice. He had the black man as a slave as an inner voice for him.

So we must always have our inner voice to remind us that, remember, you are talking to the next human being. So talk to them properly. Remember.

You are talking to Omdom Dala, talk to him properly. Remember, you're talking to your parents, talk to him properly. Remember, you're talking to your wife, talk to her properly.

So as we are reaching the conclusion of our conversation, we are saying that menace and respect. Menace make a man. We can't talk of African culture without talking about respect. We can't talk about family. Black family without talking about respect for each other.

We can't talk about Ubuntu without talking about respect. Your final words. You see, it ties up.

I like your closing points about respect and how you talk. Our relationships, if you look at our mothers and fathers, you'll never hear, no matter how wrong Ubaba is, you'll never hear, oh mama, I'm correct in front of everyone. That was the generation then. Uzua, Tula. They would be in jail quietly.

But now, Connor, you're sugar-coated. You don't say, ha, Baba. You say, I'm your Baba. You're my father. Which is what we lack now.

Yeah, and we're proud of that. We're proud of that. Give me my jellies. Yeah, and the current generation will be like, we're not like our parents.

We're not in jail. Yeah, and in jail, you're in front of other people. People, yeah. And this is the husband that you're supposed to respect.

Everybody's supposed to respect. And when, as a woman, you're raising your voice, Instead of being that quiet slave, I'm actually letting go of my own life. Exactly.

So it is still how you say it, not what you say it, which matters the most. And that will help us to build proper black families, learned from our own mothers and fathers. Because my father passed away 40-something years ago.

My mother still... And... But my mother still talked very fondly of him. Yes.

You know, because they had a way to correct each other. Yes. And this is what we should learn from the older generation.

Yeah, and stop saying, we're not like older generation and getting out here and being disrespectful. And being disrespected. And people feeling disrespected. And we're thinking we're expressing our right.

We have the right to express ourselves. But rights goes with responsibility. So if we are going to have our right head, we must also have a responsibility to express them in such a way that they can be well received. without causing animosity or antagonism.

Well said. So this is the one black love we put to you, one perfect black love we put to our black family out there. Let's love one another.

Let's respect one another. Be kind. Let us be kind to one another.

Let us remember that we are dealing with multiple traumas and therefore we are here to help one another heal than to be saying to one another that... you are not healed as if yourself you are healed. And seeing other people that, I did a video about the weight of the day. And then it was like, give us a weight of the day.

And I was like, don't give other people weight of the day when you are still damaged yourself. So if we are going out there to advise people how they should live, we must begin by advising ourselves too. And our deliverance must be important.

We mustn't be... offending in the process of trying to build. We're here to rebuild. We're dealing with nation building, social cohesion, moral regeneration.

Would it be right to say, if you're in a glass house, don't throw stones? Yes. When you're living in a glass house, don't throw stones.

Yeah. That is basically what it is. Can't afford to throw stones while you yourself are living in a glass house. Yes. Yeah.

That was beautiful. Yes. Black love. One black love, one perfect black love. Let us love one another unconditionally.

It's important to remember that. We just love, you know? Yeah. And in that way, we will be able to heal a lot of wounds that are existing in our society because we need to heal.

Yeah, true. Unpopular opinion, Tautau Haramanuba with Indro Vugazi, Punyuga Bampet, signing out.

Transcript for:African Love, Family, and Polygamy Insights

Transcript for:
African Love, Family, and Polygamy Insights