[Music] what's going on guys welcome back to Blood Sweat and gear with coaches skip Hill Andrew Barry myself Scott MCN and we are brought to you by true nutrition.com use our code think over there for highquality thirdparty tested supplements at supplement [Music] source.com loaded here we're going to get to those but we've got uh a topic that we want to discuss which is basically comes down to frequency in in training obviously frequency and training and how popular that's gotten but before we do Justin White had a question for us that we're going to tackle first and that's going to be the biggest mistakes you see clients make that get in their way of making progress we'll all come up with one and then that way we can call it like the three biggest mistakes something like that very YouTube friendly I don't know so only one we each one of us only get one I've got two maybe I should go last and then that way if you guys choose one of mine I well you can let's do this you can have an honorable mention after we all go around all right that sounds good all right I am going my go to because I'm just going to go first because I'm G to push myself to the to the front of the line I'm so important I think so highly of myself I'm going to go with the um trusting the process I'm I'm going to steal um Russ Allen's because I think it's great his uh what do I want to say slogan if you will in fact his business might actually be called trust the process and I always thought that was really good because it just the point is right there in the name there's too many and and I know that this is piggybacking off of what Andrew said you know a couple times over the last couple episodes because we've talked about this ad nauseum trust the process that you hired a trainer who argu and you're hiring him because he knows more than you he's got more wisdom than you do he has he or she has more experience than you do that's why you're paying them you don't pay someone and hire them and not listen to them now can it be collaborative it absolutely can should the trainer take into consideration feedback from the client should it be a two-way street of course it should and the ultimate or the end decisions should be made by the trainer and they should be accepted it's just that simple so I could go on and on and be for both but I'll stop there don't forget to remind me skips word of the day let's make sure we let's let's do that after that next segment we have planned okay um I like that one trust the process that's actually uh a a saying in my 12 step program they say that that right yeah because when you get in you don't really know what's going on you and you you you're doing something brand new you don't have it figured out but you just have to trust the process us so your your sponsor will tell you that um this is something I've thought about a lot in my own bodybuilding and and I would and I've said it occasionally on podcasts before but I find that I can split people up into two different groups there are the people that will ask what more can I do and there are the people that will ask what more can I get away with h nice you that I would I and I can tell you that the people who ask what more can I do are always going to be the most successful people they are the people that are plugged in they're looking at this positively they're they're looking at this as a positive challenge it's not what do I have to do it's what can I do you know and and I think that I really do believe that our attitude plays a huge role in reaching our goals I mean we could probably say that about anything but like even with bodybuilding and with fat loss like if you're focusing on the positive and you're doing everything your coach says like skip says then and and you're you have a positive attitude with it you're going to it's going to be a lot better of a process than if you're like man I don't know if I trust this skip guy you know what I mean so that that's mine okay um I guess I would say the number one mistake clients make and we're and I'm going to talk about competitors here um competitors that do not take themselves as seriously in the offseason as they do pre-contest that's huge um and I tell almost every client that I have I'm that the clients that literally start doing the same things that they do during prep attacking things the same way measuring food to the gram not missing minutes of cardio not just saying oh I'll eat this instead of that it's close to what I'm supposed to eat um taking training serious viously giving the proper feedback checking in every week because I know a lot of people kind of start to fall off a little bit with their check-ins in the offseason the ones that treat everything like they're in prep see results tenfold and much faster and and I'm sure Justin who asked this question can relate to this I'm sure when he bought in 100% And started taking himself seriously to the gram of of of what he's supposed to eat and to the Reps of what he's supposed to train and and given everything he got I'm sure that's when his bodybuilding career really took off and you know I I say this to a lot of people and and not everybody but like a lot of them turned Pro like within two years after that it's it's a mindset switch of taking yourself seriously because you know you started to talk about uh Scott a minute ago about like your outlook and your um and just how you look at things and I think if you treat yourself like this is a year round sport obviously you need breaks you know you need D loads you need time off you need diet breaks here and there of course but if you take yourself seriously 50 weeks out of the 52 instead of just that 18 weeks that you're in contest prep I think you will see your results uh double triple tenfold all that good stuff and your next contest prep will seem easier um your results will come faster and you will reach your goals or all your your mini goals a lot faster um doing that great 100% I think my honorable mention kind of piggybacks off of that and that is poor poor communic I have found over the years that I have trained with uh trained clients online that the more communication there is the better the results there are always exceptions but they're not very common the clients that I have the most communication with typically progress the best I like that thank you for tuning in and if we are providing value to you today let me encourage you to subscribe and hit the Bell we have some veral bodybuilding podcasts that come out each week all right so we'll dive straight into our topic then we've got a fun one um all right so here's the I'm just going to read it skip Hill what's your thought on Jordan in by extension effectively Scott Stevenson's proposals on frequency seems we've moved to a phase where frequency is now regulating optimal intensity uh maybe a topic for the show it's a big deep dive with more than a few roads to go down it's a good one D the only thing I the only thing I don't like about the question is I don't I don't agree or maybe I don't understand how how or what he means by frequency regulating um regulating optimal intensity optimal intensity because I see frequency as I see three main components of programming training and I see them all equally in in this order as far as I'm concerned this is my order intensity first um volume and then frequency so I can if he's if he's saying well I think what he's saying is you have to accept that if you're training more frequently your volume has to come down because these three things the intensity volume and frequency are kind of and I talk about this in the seminar it's kind of a it's your 1980s equalizer band on your stereo all right yeah and and they kind of have to they have to be in sync they're not going to be straight across but they have to have a pattern to where one feeds the other and it all fits together perfectly for the perfect sound or the perfect outcome so if volume goes up frequency has to come down a frequency come goes up volume has to come down uh and then intensity the reason I put intensity at the Forefront is because I see intensity as more of a black and white component because I approach intensity with basically failure it's why I don't like R it's why I don't like gray areas because if you're training to failure and I Define failure as you either physically fail to where you can't get the rep and you have to be pulled out or you finish a rep and you know because you've been doing it for a long time because you may not know if you haven't been doing it a long time that you're not going to get the next rep yeah if in doubt attempt the next rep so that to me is very black and white that's why I am an intensity guy I like to put that at the Forefront because it's easily measurable it's right there in front of you and it's black and white from there then you're only dealing with two equalizer bars because the other one is just going to stay pretty much constant and that's the volume and the frequency and IF frequency goes up great but volume has to come down the only thing that is there's a little bit of a caveat here and that is if you're part of the older demographic primarily it can happen with the younger demographic too with the older demographic it's going to be more pronounced if you don't bring the volume down when you take the frequency up because you're going to get what I call the old man itis issues you're going to typically deal the older demographic typically deals more with inflammatory or inflammation type issues like elbow uh you or tendonitis you know your elbows your shoulders your your knees things like that so one goes up the other one has to come down I I don't I think what he's saying is Scott and and Jordan are moving more towards the fre I didn't know this uh to be honest with you moving more towards frequency and I'm assuming then the volume is coming yeah volume's real low so I think I think you I think that's that is what he's what he's saying is there he's he was more or less using frequency to uh get optimal intensity because volume is going to be like at Absolute minimum now what I don't agree with and Dante is going to punch me if he if he can through the screen it's a guess by the way it's a guess yeah no I understand um but with DC training there was a component of that as well and and Dante believed that doing essentially I'm paraphrasing but doing the same amount of volume but training more frequently will increase growth I don't believe that I'm not saying it's wrong all I'm saying is I don't believe that I think that in the end it's the the finish line is at the same point I don't think that it increases progress by bringing the volume down and frequency up any more than it does volume up and frequency down as long as the intensity I think intensity and Recovery Drive essentially the same gains and those two things don't matter as much if I may make a note I qu I'm going to quote you skip if in doubt attempt another rep I feel like that should be a t-shirt or a bumper sticker or something yeah I don't think that's a bad rule at all just so we're clear so what is Jordan uh Peter's uh contention and and that was echoed by Scott Stevenson Scott know yeah with Scott's you know Scott Scott basically I think what it is really is that Scott showed DC training to Jordan you know and he really exposed him to that and then and then from there into um you know fortitude training relying on higher frequency uh versus traditional volume so I don't think we can use Jordan as a great example for anything except for like being huge well that's what I mean because I'm not convinced that Jordan wouldn't be massive if he did six workouts a week and did a Ronnie Coleman body part split you know what I'm saying like I think he he's genetically supposed to be a very large muscular human being and you apply any stimulus and I think that was what's going to happen to him but so I don't know if he's a great example I'd rather I'd rather look at more average um genetic people I think that's our you know that's our equalizer to to use as a as a gauge but I mean I don't know if it matters so much what you do because you have have your glass of recovery right and every time you work out every rep you do you're taking a little sip from that glass and once you're out you're out and anytime you're in that deficit you you're you're in a danger zone where you're overtraining not building muscle possibly losing muscle causing joint issues causing over fatigue to your sympathetic nervous system etc etc etc so because here's why I say this because we've seen over 60 years of training whether I think it was like Serge new bra or someone trained like 80 sets per workout right all the way to say Dante one set per exercise for a total of like four working sets per workout three times a week if you're doing very traditional DC training and they both work they all work and then everything in between also works so I think the the most important take home here is managing your recovery whether you are someone that mentally can handle one or two super intense high-intensity sets that take you to the brink and Beyond or you're someone that needs to have you know three to four volumous sets with reps and Reserve I think it all works and I just think finding which formula works best for you and which which works best for you at at different points in your career yes okay like if you're someone who has a a high energy job where you are on your feet doing construction five or six days a week versus someone who sits at a desk like us doing computer work the training approach might need to be very different right uh if you're someone that um is very injury prone maybe some of that super high intensity stuff just isn't for you because injuring yourself is going to limit your muscular growth if you can't train so I think you need to take all these different variables into account when you're figuring out you know what training program is going to be the best for you I'm with you skip like the Reps and Reserve thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me because my mindset is empty the tank go to town on the set write it till it's done with good form and the set's done you know and and and to that point actually maybe our our listeners can comment on on Mike's page but we we wanted to I always think it's best to go to the source especially for training programs or you know nutrition anything scientific we wanted to have Mike on the show and he kind of uh kind of gave us the cold shoulder uh and then I tried to get Jared on the show and he kind of gave me the cold shoulder uh but so maybe our listeners want to go and and tag on their page that he probably should have came on to the show so can be educated on what we're talking about but um you know a little dig there but my point being is that I think you got to find out what training approach works best for you and if you're someone that your schedule only allows you to train four days a week you might need to make the most out of that if you're someone that doesn't have a lot going on and you can train six days a week maybe maybe that's more advantageous for you because you have a lot more recovery and a lot more energy available to you so I think it I think it's just so individual you know yeah I've got a few thoughts on frequency um go for it I I think first of all I one of the things that Andrew said is really important and it's what works for you what do you like I know that skip doesn't like by the way sorry Andrew that sounds really loud in the mic oh I'm sorry every time you move that straw or set it down I'm waiting for Scott to say something I'm like I know I didn't want to say anything I was like oh he put it down we won't say anything funny that you know it it comes down to what you like first of all like if I were to ask skip like dude I want you to follow this like high frequency you're going to do one set to hard failure and I'm going to have you come back you know 3 days a week to train chest it's like I don't think that that would be your thing you wouldn't enjoy that so I these are things that I've learned from Scott by the way that's that's one aspect of it another aspect I think of frequency is that could be really beneficial is what were you doing before you know like if if you're looking to try to make the best gains you can so the way I see it is for a long time we all did the Bro split or the pro split or whatever you want to call it 5 days week training one body part per day um and then we kind of discovered higher frequency Push Pull legs got to be really popular again high high frequency high intensity became really popular and it's very different than what we were doing before and I'm speaking like as a community of bodybuilders and I think that that's great but now I'm kind of curious to see well what's going to happen next because you know the same thing isn't always going to continue working forever you know so I think that's an element now here's what I see as being benefits of higher frequency I found that it worked really good for me and I think part of it is because I was doing a one body part A Day split non-stop for like all of my bodybuilding and then when I switched to higher frequency I started to that's when I made that progress with my back and part of that was that I was able to come back and do it again and again so you know each time that we train uh we we basically the training is our trigger for growth we do the hardest ideally the hardest thing that we can do and uh and and if we can progress in some way we've triggered growth and and then from there the key is to recover and then come back and get that trigger again as soon as possible you know maybe a guy like Brandon Curry he's the example that I like to use we had him on and he talked about training at oxygen gym they go in there and they would just utterly destroy each muscle one body part A Day traditional bro split type thing sometimes he was doing two a day training and it was just like just burning it into the ground and a lot of people couldn't hang with that training and the people who don't hang with that they end up leaving oxygen gym but if you happen to have the genetics that can handle that then you can really in Excel at a place like that so he's doing all this volume right and and he's pounded his body into the ground and maybe he's not going to train that body part again for seven days he's doing like once a week type stuff well for Brandon Curry each time we train each time we get that trigger for growth you know the muscle is getting based with all sorts of growth factors and MGF and all that stuff it's going to be extremely anabolic and for Brandon it might last for four five six days but for a guy that we call like average genetics guy like maybe a average white guy like myself I might be getting that for who knows two days three days we don't know you know so if I can come back in 15 minutes yeah 20 minutes right but time I get out of the gym so if I can come back and do it again sooner then you know more power to me I can effectively get that I can stay in that like anabolic growth phase for for more of the year um so I think that there are benefits to that of course the limiting factor then becomes volume you know you can you can only you can only train as frequently as you can recover so if we can get in there and we can do the minimal that it takes just enough to get that trigger for growth to flip that switch and then get out I might be able to come back and do that again three days later so you know for me then it might be more beneficial to be able to say get whatever 100 sessions of back versus 502 if I can recover from it will that last till Infinity you know who knows uh I I think though that there are I have seen it so since I started learning from Scott about this I have seen benefit taking people that we doing lower frequency and then moving to higher frequency but I haven't seen that payoff for Infinity you know what I mean because I've had the chance of working with some people for multiple years and and we generally do kind of almost like deload from from high frequency and bring it back to you know lower frequency again but I think it has its place and it comes down to what can you recover from what do you enjoy what could your body handle you know and when it comes to recovery I think that's an important component because because I think there's an exception to the frequency or to my opinion on frequency and that is this let's say you have a lagging part body part and it happens to be your back just as an example if I wanted to bring up my back and it lagged and I was going to train more frequently because I wanted to progress the best that I could and get more of a stimulus more frequently I would think that that would be a good idea if I were to give up or or vastly limit the training of my stronger body parts yeah because coming back to the glass you know the glass that you were talking about you can only fill it fill it so much and I believe too the cardio plays a part in that as well um and that's kind of an old Menor thing that you know you can train it 100% And do no cardio or you can train at 50% and do 50% cardio that both of those things will will event ually empty the cup and that that you need to be taken into consideration so I'm approaching this frequency thing as the the glass you know the glass being full yeah so I I would I would want to give up some of that training of other My stronger body parts to be able to then add the training to my weak body parts because the there's another limiting factor when you talk about frequency and that is getting all the work done for the other muscle groups so if you give up some of those strengths my arms are you know relatively strong compared to everything else yeah as a standalone they're not that great but they they look better than everything else so I would cut back on my arm training which arguably wouldn't be as as exhaustive of you know my CNS and and everything else I understand that but I'm still making the point that I could cut back on that and maybe even calf work uh that sort of thing to be able to dump that extra work without negatively impacting my recovery so it might look something like this I wouldn't not train arms at all but I might train arms excuse me directly only once every 3 weeks and replace my arm workout on a Friday with another back session so I would train back on Tuesday I always train back on Tuesday uh Tuesdays and Fridays for two weeks in a row and not train arms directly at all uh which arguably you wouldn't lose much of anything anyway because of the amount as long as you're pushing and pulling heavy you know I I still stand by the fact that I think a lot of our muscle size after we've spent a lot of time in the gym is from uh more so from the heavy pushing and pulling for back and and chest than it is direct arm movements I think that buries a lot of people and that's why they don't grow their arms very well but I digress um I and then come back that third week and only train back once because arguably maybe my recovery for back would start to falter a little bit after after doing it twice for a couple weeks and then I get my arm workout in and I rotate and cycle that on a essentially a two we on one week off type of rotation and it could be shoulders it could be back it could be legs um but I would I would only do something like that if I were to give up uh some of my volume or or the workload in those or for those muscle groups that are stronger that's the mistake I see people make is I see them say like oh I'm going to go to push pull legs and now they're like literally doing an entire like 16 sets for chest on that first push date it's like well you're going to come back and do this in four days man you know sure yep so I guess the take-home here especially when we're talking about if you have a strong body part and you're trying to bring up a weaker body part you don't necessarily just add volume to that weaker body part it's safe to pull work in volume from that that stronger body part because it's not really going anywhere and if it does you can add the work back in and replace it and it's going to come back just as fast well and if it did work I'd argue this if you just added more work like I added more work for back or extra day then I was leaving something on the table anyway and I could have done more work for all of my muscle groups it say I'm doing six or that's a bad let's say I'm doing 10 extra sets of back because I normally do 10 sets of back on a Tuesday I do 10 more sets on a Friday those 10 sets have to come from somewhere because if you have the ability to do 10 extra sets for back then you had the ability to add arguably maybe you could have just added it to the regular back session so I would tend this is just me instead of frequency I would play around with my I can't play with intensity because I I feel like my intensity is pretty much at a mark where I'm not a um a guy who adds typically adds high-intensity techniques like four straps and stuff like that but it could be an option or it could just simply be instead of increasing the frequency I would increase the volume first that's just me and if that didn't work then I would then I would do the frequency where I cut back on a stronger body part so with the back stuff I found and and just with like the we'll call it the high frequency extremely low volume high high intensity I found that there was only I started to seeing there was only so much I could get out of it as beneficial as it was and I've seen that with clients too where there's some and and I I I felt like I was very um it was a couple years ago I felt very validated because Nate spear discovered the same thing and when we asked him it was two years ago I was like what did you do with your legs how did you you know start to improve and he said well I was I realized that as intense as I am I'm not Dorian Yates so there's got to be a little bit more that I can't get in and what we can't get with intensity we can make up for with volume so I started going to like maybe a real Progressive push day and then the next push day is going to be higher volume and it's not as high intensity because I'll I'll almost kind of like put a governor on the intensity by shortening the rest periods if I'm just doing like one say top set back off set I you might take an extra long time with feeder sets and really like working up to that one allout set versus just getting into it warming up doing your set and waiting one minute and doing your next set waiting one minute and doing your next set you know what I mean and let's be fair we're talking about the minutia I think this is important we're talking about the minutia here and we're trying volume intensity frequency sets and Reps they're all kind of micro gauges for lack of a better way to explain it to essentially measure the stimulus that we're putting on a muscle so when push comes to shove the muscle doesn't in my opinion to to a vast degree does not know a repetition it does not know a set it does not know the volume or frequency it only knows whether it's a stimulus that is going to cause it to adapt and change versus not and and my argument is this if you train your ass off all the time and you're doing 100 rep sets and you you're training like like uh Gus Gus Young that young kid that we had on for from Australia who's made just incredible gains at his age train like a in samee person that his body is going to get to the point where eventually that Wicked nefarious uh you know approach to training is not always going to work so it could be and this is the cliche comment that we always throw around because it's true the best training program or the best stimulus is the one likely that you've been using in it and it has quit working so quit doing it and change to a different stimulus it's again we're using reps and sets and and and volume and everything else to to program and to kind of gauge and and explain in process what we're going to do to create the stimulus when ultimately the muscle only knows the stimulus that's all it knows there's another t-shirt tell you I'm so profound my the profundities today coming out of Skip's mouth hey if you guys guys had the opportunity to train with one legend of the sport who would it be train with myself every day yeah oh oh go ahead Andrew I mean I've already been able to train with you know the the the person that I you know really looked up to in a big way in the sport and John Meadows you know um oh yeah so I you know some people like oh I want to train with Ronnie or I want to train with uh you know Dorian Yates or something like that yeah let's say like in their prime it could be like in their Prime too you know this is a fantasy thing I'm not a big fantasy guy in that way you know what I'm saying like I uh I was we we we get a lot of good people to come to mi40 and like they jump in we we do workouts together I mean I get to train with my best friend every day and Nate Spear and we push each other I've gotten to train with John Meadows I mean I'm a happy camper I you know anybody that wants to train most people that like they're like hey you know into town for a week could I train with you guys and it's like we'll train with anybody and have a great time you know it's um you know Justin Randall another one of my good buddies Frank Pella another one like I guess I I I say more those guys versus um celebrities in our sport just because I don't know I I I just I wouldn't trade the workouts had that's why you don't see them as celebr you don't see them as celebrities I think that's that's why and that's not taking anything from them but because we're immersed in this and we're around these people and a lot of them are you know our peers and our friends I think we view it differently than a lot of people who um you know if I go back to in the day before social media you know just meeting Lee Haney was just moving to me I met him at the Great Lakes at the Redford theater um theater yeah he was at uh and and here's a quick little I had a rub of Copenhagen in and the line was so long that I had a mouth full of spit when I got up there and I I it was early on when I was chewing I was only made like 2122 I wasn't about to gut that and finally he said he goes you need to spit that out don't you I'm like that's funny so what did you do did you have a bottle with you or no because my dumb ass didn't think I'd be standing there all that long you're talking to Le Haney with a all full of exactly it literally was underneath my tongue in that little Reservoir there probably like just about almost and I wanted to gut it because I'm like I'm not going to get this opportunity again but we're surrounded by these people and these people are so approachable now that even if we didn't know them I don't think as many people have that desire I Know Myself there's only one person yeah I already trained with my wife and I love that and my daughter I mean to me it's you know this isn't going to go on you know for very long she's our last you know kid at home and stuff like that and I'm just loving it she's gonna get good and be like I don't have time for you old man yeah exactly exactly there is one person that I miss training with and and honestly I think it really is only because I was running it down in my head when Andrew was talking and that's Jimmy Jimmy Kennedy yeah we had so much fun after maybe about after the first year because the first year I was still kind of like pro football we weren't yeah we weren't tight you know we weren't super tight he played I worked with him for six years his last six years as a pro when he was in the NFL and we became really good friends to the point where I I arrived in Minnesota one day I think it was uh three years before he's done because he played two years in Minnesota at the end and then got his ring with the Giants that last year but first year in Minnesota we got to his apartment he picked me up from the airport and he handed me the check and I told him I I handed it back and he's like what's wrong you know is it not enough I said I'm not I can't take I can't take that yeah and he's like why and I said because the truth is is I consider us friends I don't I don't want to take your money it just it just it feels wrong and he thought I was messing with him and I'm like I really I'm just not taking it and what was funny was that kind of solidified for him man he's not hanging he's like one of the few people who's around me who doesn't care to ride my coattails not on the tap like yeah like he's he's just my friend it was just awkward for me to take and and people might think because it was a big check people might think oh that's stupid but I gained so much anyway from a business standpoint he helped it's credibility when you're working with someone like that I picked up clients from that I got plenty of exposure from that anyway so I was benefiting from it whether I wanted to or or not so it wasn't anything what I want to say altruistic or or anything like that um I just didn't I just didn't feel right about it and from that time on I think he understood that you know he you know he's my he's skips my friend you know he realized what type of person my trainer yeah what's that he realized what type of person you were that you weren't trying to use him for anything like that like you said you saw him as a friend at that point and you were both in a mutually beneficial relationship that didn't revolve around finances right we had a lot of fun training uh he I was glad in hindsight cuz I sometimes go back and I'll I'll be like oh my God I forgot he was in the longevity you know DVD you know with training we had a lot of fun I'd go to Michigan to the cazoo to um you know because we would title sponsor that show intense muscle did kid probably three or four years yeah because I've known Han since I was like 16 years old yeah yeah he judged my first contest yeah great guy him and Laney they're just they're just awesome people they've been uh Rock Solid people as long as I've known them a lot of other people feel the same way about him he voted for me what's that I miss first by one point he voted for me so he's already there you go you gota like yeah but Jimmy would go back with me to kalamazo we would stay at my sister-in-law's house not at the Ritz Carlton or anything else my sister-in-law's house they would go to their Cottage so that Jimmy and I could stay at their house and sleep in their beds and and he showed me how to iron just little things he showed me how to iron I was mad cuz jeans were wrinkled like God I hate traveling he laughed he's like bro give me those put a bunch of water on them iron them he's like I'm like how do you know that like you got people to do that how do you know he's like [ __ ] I was raised in the hood I was raised in this he's from Queens or where he's from but I didn't have no [ __ ] money I had to figure this stuff out on my own just cool [ __ ] like that to this day it's it's he's someone that we don't get enough time we don't get spend enough time together and I'm going to regret it because we always say we're going to get together I'm going to go out to Arizona or he's going to come down here uh but I don't know if you know his son is playing at Iowa and he really Bonafide no kidding badass yeah he he's been he's one of those guys who's incredibly coachable he's doing all the training he's put on a lot of size he's doing what he has to do I will not be surprised I'm not saying he will but I will not be surprised to see this kid Go Pro it's pretty cool pretty cool cool watch y we we did a similar question to this uh it must have been like a month ago on it's just bodybuilding and at the time I picked Axel Rose because he used to he Axel used to lift you remember that you remember back in the day Axel singer yeah yeah yeah I didn't know he trained though he was I mean he wasn't like big big he was probably doing too many drugs to you know what I mean to to get big but I figured I'd go to like uh Axel's mansion and hang out with him and you know like late late 80s is that would that that would have been the time right like8 8 maybe somewhere 9 go hang out with Axel and uh something along those lines but today I'm going to pick I don't know man anybody from Gold Gym like 87 to 91 anybody anybody from any of those bigname guys and just like yuck it up have some fun really kill it at the at the gym go to the Firehouse afterward and uh you know kick it around Santa Monica with those guys that that would be my jam right there that'd be my B have you guys been to Muscle Beach or no yeah it's been a long time I'm glad I went Chang that's that's why I don't go I won't go because it's not the original and I to me it means absolutely nothing it's a commercialized yeah very very watered down lame rendition of what it used to be it's disappointing any of the guys that you're talking about Scott that that would be present day in out of that gym they train at like 4 in the morning or 10:30 at night so they can avoid the Instagram YouTube crowd yeah like when I was in there 2017 it was obviously before things changed big time and uh I watched while I was doing I was there like for I competed that week and so it was kind of like a bodybuilding uh travel vacation you know like uh travel bodybuilding for fun and so I did a show in Los Angeles and Brad row was there doing his training like walking lunges at like 5 in the morning I'm on the treadmill over there doing like sessions of cardio I didn't really need to do any more cardio you know that that's that's his um his his warm-up workout of the day I remember you ever seen his video that guy would go to bed at like 10:30 at night after cleaning his whole apartment yeah and then he'd wake up at like 3:00 in the morning and clean his whole apartment again and then he'd be on the road at 4:00 a.m. and then he' do his warm-up workout of the day where he does like a set or of everything yeah and then his cardio and then he'd eat meal one and then he'd do his real workout of the day and then train his clients and then sometimes do another workout or another car guy's a machine he's an animal so early and remember how great his legs were he had great physique you know just he he was wearing like the uh the project ad sleeveless hoodie yeah you know with like just the crazy freaking legs probably like pink shorts on or something like that only you know only person in the gym that could get away with pink shorts and and look insane you know quick Brad Rose story uh I think one of his last shows 200 might have been like 2019 Chicago Pro we were out there for that and there's a there's the venue in Tinley Park and then in that same complex there's a Lifetime Fitness so all the bodybuilders had to go work out it you know that last three or four days Brad Row the day before the show you would have thought he was in the offseason doing a Costa Redemption workout like Ronnie Coleman like murdering it huh oh he's going to town I'm like Brad like you're competing tomorrow right and he's like he's like yeah I'm like you're going pretty hard today he's like so and I'm just like dude like most people Pon it down going into the show like like I'm talking high intensity high volume Pro he must have done 40 sets and all of them were like to a 10 or or Beyond level of intensity like I I was just blown away like how are you getting on stage tomorrow dude and I almost think I think he might have gotten in his own way as a competitor because of that mindset I could see that I mean just like I told you like he'd get up and do that first workout in the morning like what if he did less and focused on rest and Recovery more I wonder how far he really could have gone but but you know our bodybuilding journey is all of our own and you know I'm sure he feels fulfilled with everything he did and yeah you know he lived it the way he wanted to so oh real quick I got to tell you too the coolest uh part of Golds that weekend was so there I mean the the day pass is like you know $175 you know what I me crazy and I was ridiculous literally paying it every day because like I'm gonna be I I wasn't going enough to train to get the week pass so I was going to get like three day passes or something like that and the last like the final day like Wednesday before the show I had one more day and I was GNA Meet Dave C Dave was driving in he was like an hour away which is probably like two blocks in you know Los Angeles distance exactly so he but Dave drove in uh to hang out with me like take a look at me you know what I mean that kind of thing yeah and uh so Dave's there I'm waiting outside and Dave's like hey what's up man we walk in and I'm getting my wallet out and you didn't have to pay with Dave cik they just wave you through they just like Dave it's Dave you know you're with Dave you don't have to pay anymore I'm like man I've been taking out a mortgage to get in here every other day before this you know that's funny guys let's talk about intra workout carbs and saving money so like the past 10 15 years intra workouts become super popular it's a great way to support pre-workout insulin use it's great for recovery and it's great for endurance in those long workouts here's the thing it's really expensive it's not only expensive for us it's expensive for supplement companies they really don't make a lot of money off of it that's where true nutrition comes in so true nutrition they're not only a retailer they're also a manufacturer they're actually making a lot of the products that you guys are already buying from other companies so just think about it you're going to cut out the middleman the only thing you're going to miss out on is the fancy labels and and The Branding outside of that you're getting the exact same highquality products but you're getting it directly from the source if you're going to pay for the price of Highly branched Cy Clic dextran ensure that you're getting 25 gram per scoop not of a mix of carbs but just of Highly branched Cy click extran we can mix the other stuff in later you know use our code think gets some savings plus it's like voting for us it lets them know that you support what we're doing uh I got a quick fun one for skip nice what are Skip's top three breakfast places in the Fort Lauderdale or Slightly North Area that's from Phil VZ oh oh number number one's easy it's hatch hatch is yeah what they y they they're new what they did is they copied snooze and if I was snooze I'd be pissed but and I told him I gave him a I messaged him or I gave him a review and I said that all the from your vibe to your food to your flights to the names of the plates they're too close and I'm surprised snooze doesn't have a cease and deiss order but I said I tell you what did you put this in the review yeah I left it in the review I said I'm coming down uh from West Palm and it's if it's even 80% of what snooze is you've got a new customer they kill it it is decadent very good um they it's as close to snooze I and there's not one around here so it is very good um I don't know if Foxy Brown is still there but um Foxy Brown is great too they have a Bananas Foster French I'm a french toast guy before anything pancakes have to be off the hook for me to like them and hatch has them know the third one um honestly it's kind of not predictable but it's kind of lame in the sense that it's the Ritz Carlton has a a cremet french toast and they used have before had an awesome awesome brunch um buffet and then you could get the alart you couldn't get the French toast off the buffet so you had to order it all the cart but I would say those three there's more um than that too but those would be the places if I go to Fort Lauderdale for a brunch or for breakfast I would not hesitate to go to hatch now tell V Phil if he want because Phil viz he's in Coral Springs he's not very far from me which is disappointing because he's been down here now four or five months and we have not gotten together I have not reached out and that's on me because he did reach out to me literally when he was getting off the plane but I was deep into dieting and I'm like this last thing I want to do is go hang out because I know he's an eating machine too so together right now man Phil Phil's Phil's training I mean I don't think he's not trying to go full bodybuilding but he's eating clean he's going to the gym uh he wants to get his arms and shoulders back and um yeah he's he's living a bodybuilding lifestyle again so I'm happy because otherwise I'd invite him up here to The Breakers because it's one of the top five brunches in the country $2 He he'll definitely show up to eat if you invited him I know that's a fact exact they play a harp in the great room okay there's a harpist so it's very I mean the reservations are like two two and a half months out um I always kick kick myself because I haven't taken my wife yet I went with clients uh because I told her I'm like the only thing you're going to do is drink $200 worth of mimosas and take three you pain your wife to be this freaking B booze hound well no she she's a professional Drinker she's very good she doesn't drink as much these last this last year or so umal always she loved to drink dudes under the table they thought they could out drink she would just level them they'd be one guy left puked and came back oh God like you don't make drinking into a competition like what the hell she's gonna beat you just throw your hands up and concede that you're not that good understand too we were at a high elevation so when we would travel remember at a high elevation if you acclimate to that yeah you can you're going to you can already drink you go on to sea level you're going to drink people under the table anyway or if they come from out of town and they come to a high level they'll they have a higher blood alcohol level very quickly but outside of that I mean my wife has sit back and drink I mean she could she sit back and drink 14 16 Bud Lights and you won't know that she she'll be she'll be funny but she won't be slurring her speee she has to really drink I even one time to the point I'm like you got to get some blood work done I got to see what your liver enzymes are yeah had the liver of a 25y old 30y I couldn't I was I was almost disappointed because I wanted some sign like maybe you need to slow down a little bit I don't know I submit because I drink like one alcoholic beverage every three years so yeah I haven't had one since 2010 yeah I mean that that was me until last year we had a drink when we you know moved into the house you know that kind of thing like we feel like we should celebr like normal people for a minute so exactly and I'm not sober I always say this people who are sober are sober for a reason they had a drinking problem I never had a drinking problem I just felt like death the older I got the worse it was you I used to when we were younger you drink you go to the gym the next day like oh that's a great workout now if I have drinks and that's what I realized when I was in Michigan for the holidays I'm like my face is swollen I can't get my rins off I I feel like crap so I'm like I'm not going to drink for a while that turned into 6 months turned into three years turned into five at my daughter's wedding when I didn't have a drink I'm like I'm not going back to it I'm an all or none guy so I don't drink all the time but if I drink I may not have drank in a year I'll drink I'll have 10 12 drinks I'll be the life of the party I'm a I'm a fun drunk to be around imagine this Andrew yeah you know I'm not I'm not mean I'm not shitty I don't look for fights or anything like that uh I'm not that kind of guy but it just didn't the older I got it just it wasn't worth it anymore gotta all right how do make your skin thinner for the stage get lean get lean yeah is that easy listen to the last episode about the uh extreme fat loss techniques we talked about yeah exactly I got one new cardio with a 30 level uh this is from Larry Waters um thoughts and experience with utilizing Super Draw and or anad Draw to fill out the last two to three days prior to competition I'm competing in three 3.5 weeks at the Master's World Pro and considering utilizing these vigorous Steve has discussed as very effective I'm going to say B probably did a much better breakdown in terms of the science behind it than we're gonna do but I would say if I would not do this like I would want to test this out when you're lean like and like like let's say he does this show and he's also gonna do another one yeah and you have a period of time in between like five weeks or something I would do a test run like one of those weeks in between and see how you look because I can say from experience people have tried to use super draw with it either looks good or it really really backfires in terms of yeah they're Fuller but like their gut and midsection looks distended and I you know I have to probably maybe attribute that to more liver issues and the body just saying hey man like you're already running this this and that with me why'd you throw this in versus the drug alone so maybe we need to pull something else out and to try that out but I've kind of moved away from using Super Draw as uh as a compound anad draw again I would want to experiment with somebody you know leading into the show if they're they're pretty lean at like four weeks out I would do a week or two of of of anad draw and see if it's a compound that that you could use so my advice to to Larry would be like I probably wouldn't try this the first time for your for your pro debut um at the Masters World Pro I would maybe try it in a time when you're still lean after the show to think about maybe using for a future prep I didn't like three-day reference I'm one or two maybe two pushing it uh because that last minute type thing I rank it up there with you know uh cutting your growth you know early and then putting in you know a big dose of growth either the night of or the morning the night before or the morning of and I I'd go night before but again like you say uh it's a gamble the other thing that could happen though is let's just say you did have some inflammation from it maybe a milligram of B bpc that you're running to lower inflammation oh don't be tell might be a good idea don't be giving away my secrets don't be giving away my secrets yeah that's just a guess if it were something in there like that and I haven't done that I've just heard through the grapevine that that might not be a bad idea and it might be beneficial but you never know right I'd be okay with considering it three weeks out if if we were going to talk about maybe Anadrol at 50 milligrams I maybe run it two days at three at three weeks out seeing how that works and then considering it I don't I don't don't think that 50 milligrams of Anadrol at 3 weeks out would would affect my guy the day of the show I wouldn't want to like say hey let's try it for two weeks now like you know what I mean like at this stage cuz you you couldn't undo any of that but yeah i' I'd consider but you're not I also I don't think you're going to get it's not going to be like oh my God we're so glad you did that because if you didn't like I don't know if it's going to change a placing you know what I mean well these decisions are like that it's like well how much do you plan on gaining from it is it going to be enough cost to benefit to to make let tell do do you guys know Larry I don't know him personally but I've seen his pictures yeah yeah he's a taller lankier guy like myself so he needs that he needs the fullness 3D roundness he comes in great condition tight midsection um you know so I and I get what he's trying to do he's trying to create that um that that aesthetic illusion that you have a lot more muscle than you do because I'm I've been doing that my whole career you know and using various compounds so yeah actually I do agree with you Scott now now thinking about it again he's got three and a half weeks now would be the time to try it out for maybe a three- day spill and then assess and then and if it works then add it back in on that Wednesday Thursday Friday leading into the show um if not you at least have that information but I would do anad draw and not super draw that's me personally I don't know how you guys feel about super I I agree I'm not a fan of to me it just is oh so over the over the top to me and maybe it's because I haven't used it much but it's just so harsh and Anadrol is a little bit more predictable um familiar and I can't imagine I'd say I'd go so far as to say this I've seen it with clients I don't think the difference going to Super Draw from anod draw is worth the again it comes back to Roi but again I'm also not a fan of hesin for the same reason I don't like hesm because I don't see enough yeah I don't see enough of a change to Warrant the the harshness of the I'm not saying it that it that it doesn't help but again just Roi another thing I'd like to add to this doesn't play into Larry's situation but anybody listening who might be a competitor if you're doing kind of a walkth through qualification two three you know weeks out from a bigger show and all you have to do is show up and you know to qualify yeah then use the show and do something like that sure because that's not going to be the difference of you uh qualifying if it is the difference between you qualifying and not qualifying I don't want to say you're going to be out of your league at the bigger show um but you're not going to threaten to you know be at the top you know top of that Big Show either yeah I Haven I haven't used a ton of super draw and I started experimenting it with it in the just the past couple years but I had that exact situation with a guy who was doing state level show for his qualification and then he did uh usas right and you guys saw his pictures I for usas I I ended up not running it on into usas for that reason because of the gut stuff uh he just you know he's got a really small waste and and we felt like it was compromising with that but maybe I rain it a little bit too long maybe if we were to experiment again maybe it would just be like one day you know but then it goes back to like need it do we need it you know we really need it most people they report feeling like [ __ ] the digestion is bad there's just a lot of sides that at that point are going to be even more magnified yeah you know you'd have to have a hell of a benefit I would have to have a hell of a benefit for me to use it personally like I'd literally have to be like you know kind of the old SNL skit it's much better to look good than to feel good you know what I mean um and that's an old skit that's a um I can't think of the guy's name but anyway it's old it's like damn near 30 years old but that it would have to there just have to be a huge huge visible change uh for for me to want to do that so I just yeah Fair um question what uh if your dose in farm G8 what's the best dosing protocol for the least amount of sides if using eight I use daily dosing protocol yeah would you do one dose would you do like a am post-workout Am Pm what's your preferred at eight I'm I'm a 44 i' I'd split at 44 I'm at 12 I go 444 um I could go 66 I managed I told you guys before I'm on sarasim I don't have any issues until like the last three weeks dosing has actually come down 1.5 IU a day and now I have more I wake up few hours before I'm supposed to get up and my arms are dead so I get up to go to the bathroom I shake them out I go back it happens once or twice a night which is so bizarre because I've been on the higher dose at 13.5 for 6 months probably and only when I changed it to 12 still dosing it three times a day the same time of the day every day and it's no different same Source everything let me ask you this have you have you on any days just said Ask screw it and taken it like all 12 at once and seen a difference with that I I haven't and you know I I don't know that it would matter I think a lot of times it's preference I mean I remember having this conversation with tropone and Justin Harris years ago and and a handful of other guys when we had the table uh at the um intense muscle and we all just pretty much laughed and said we don't even know that the dosing protocol matters you either respond to it or you don't I agree with that but there's just something about the fact the reason I dose it is because I feel like they're my doses are roughly eight hours apart and I'm a little low CD so is it gonna ultimately impact igf probably not you know serum growth hormone levels are triggered more frequently I I don't know that it matters it's it's just something that I got into that schedule I'm familiar with that schedule it's routine so I just kind of stay with it yeah and for what it's worth it's upon waking it's pre-workout and it's um at bedtime I changed it it used to be post-workout but the post-workout pushed the dose two and a half hours later so I didn't like that it was closer to my bedtime dose so I backed it up pre-workout and that's not when the issues started with the hands either I have had a a handful of clients who will not dose before bed and they have less problems with the uh swelling for some reason uh you know swelling of their arms or or anything like that at night but my situation hasn't been intolerable it's I can tolerate it but if it were to get worse then I'd probably look at a little bit of trigger a little bit of trigger on the pinky there um but only in the one hand and that's it I I don't I haven't really had anything anything else my heart is probably twice as size that it was but I've got a big c anyway so I'm just a compassionate guy what else you got over there Andrew anything good what is the hypothetical Max dose of HCG you could take I mean hypothetically how much is there in the world yeah yeah I mean don't take just take a bunch of HCG and walk around melons all the time between your legs yeah yeah speaking of which this is crazy you mention that but there's a certain posing drunk company that posts pictures of guys or videos of guys and the owner of the company is is not straight I I'll just throw that out there but he posts well no because it it's going somewhere because I had to do a little research what was going on here no so like all these guys would be in these posing Trunks and look like there were cantaloupes in the trunks okay and I and every guy website well no so like he kept on posting I'm like how is it how does he find like 15 different guys with like watermelons for nuts okay yeah so I'm like you know you just this is gonna S I won't say what I actually because I don't want people people think I'm thinking a certain way but so anyway I had to look up do people inject oh because there was a comment on there like how many cc's does he have in there and so I had to look up do guys inject things into their scrotum or testicles and I came across this whole Reddit Thread about dudes injecting sine into their scrotom one of those guys lived in Columbus uh this girl I used to talk to she he trained at her gym it was like the downtown one by uh by the Expo Center and they made him wear a fanny pack in front of his member to that kind of camouflage things and he had like uh he had like a a you know a lover that was it was like a um a BDSM kind of relationship and and I guess that this guy had like multiple younger men that were like all his like owned by him like he was like their their owner kind of thing and the dude yeah like the dude had like a whole website I guess and was doing like like this was his like I don't know if it was his whole living but he had like an income he was like basically famous for this he ended up dying I don't know what he was injecting into that but he's no longer with us this particular well I did read that there is a high rate of infection cellular necrosis and um and other issues related to it so it is a medical problem at well that's not the only place those injections go by the way there are two muscles down the side of the member what's the word yeah exactly I was going to go with member that are that also get injected I I just think to myself that's a that's a blood supply you don't want to you don't I'm not mess with that crab yeah no to go Top Gun that's a hell of a gamble with a $32 million plane Lieutenant I don't know that I want to go that route but anyway back to the question yeah what's the hypothetical Max dose of HG you could take let's say continuously I'm wondering if he's talking about in lie of testosterone or is he talking about taking it with testosterone there's not a lot of info here but I mean I I haven't seen research pointing to Too Much HCG causing problems I don't know if there is an amount that could cause a problem I don't know if there's a a benefit after taking a certain amount either though so let me tell you this I talked to a couple guys one guy I knew a couple guys but one one guy in particular I'll mention who uh before he had so this was this was like early 2000s and it was harder to get trt for younger guys and he was somebody who like he had clinical low tests since the time he was 23 was the first time he got tested and he figured it had been long than that anyway so in his late 20s he connected with Dr chryler Who was here in Michigan another guy rip and Chrysler put him on HCG first before they put him on test and I've seen that be in common with guys that are younger they either put him on like Nomine now or it used to be cled um and or HCG and I think he started with 250 twice a week and over the course of like a year or two I can't remember how long it was it began to not work as well and so they went to 500 and eventually then they graduated to actual trt and I had one other client who had a similar situation so I do think there is maybe some desensitization like if you do that long term you know yeah yeah wouldn't you go Clomid first anyway if that's what you were I I don't I'm not a fan of HCG or Clomid but I would go Clomid first for two reasons number one I've had clients on it long term that it's especially in other countries uh that do very well on it plus I've Seen Crazy Labs on it you get the add the added side effect as well the volume yeah the volume yes it increases volume dude I've Seen Crazy uh lab work guys crazy yeah I've seen man you guys don't even want to know seen that too yeah yeah crazy lab work with guys on Clomid you know like high levels so yeah but have you guys ever taken it in like started to see things I've cried watching television for women oh man I remember like 20 years ago I was taking it and it was like almost like this flash of something like constantly coming across and I would look and obviously nothing would be there and then it would come across the other way and so I had to like train myself to desensitize to those sites I guess those you know because you're like it's in my head like I'm there's nothing moving past yeah it was it was very uncomfortable that too uh ways to travel with Subs quote unquote internationally Canada to USA to compete in a show that's a gamble I don't even want to give any input on that one domestic I would say that's fine find a US Source yes and then figure out where you're going to be staying have said Source ship product to your Us location so you do not have to transport anything via plane any anytime you go across a country border it's it's not worth it because they might even have lack drug laws but you are bringing something illegal into their country they're going to get they're going to slam you with the book so especially if you're huge you know I mean I'll say this though the two times me and Nate went for the Vancouver and the Toronto Pro two big dudes you know we didn't get stopped once they didn't check our luggage they didn't uh like like you know the because there's other times where I went to Mexico they opened my bag they looked through everything they you know they they pulled this up what's this what are these pills right here you know they have questions but um none of that the last two times we went to Canada I don't know how it is in the you know Canada coming to us but I wouldn't risk it I would do what I just said and i' I'd find a source domestically that would ship it to where you're gonna be or find a friend or everyone has a US friend I'm not that friend by the way I'm not gu right yeah don't contact any of us I don't I don't think that there's uh I mean it depends maybe what you're using too like what do you really need is it going to be like a few tablets or are we going to be you know like I think that some of that stuff I'm not saying that you should do it but I I think there's a little more leeway if you're talking maybe five seven pills versus like three different injectables and you know what I mean pills you can always put another Bott go ahead I was gonna say pills can you can just throw in a bottle I don't think you're GNA mess with that too much yeah the inject I you know I put I'm known to put my growth hormone into an empty I keep an empty insulin bottle in the fridge for my growth hormone so that I just don't have to mess with it I also take my regular gear and put it into empty um I mix it all up put it all into uh prescription testosterone bottles because I feel like if you want to go through the you know and test it all and find out what it is well I hope you're testing for dhb because that's not going to show up and it's not likely that you're gonna you know that sort of thing so at least if you're going to get me you're gonna you're GNA have to spend some money toal to test on it so BR me go go no no no you you I'm sorry I cut you off well no that's okay I just I it was going to bring me to the word of the day uh intemperance because this kind of cuts to not only this question but pretty much us as bodybuilders in Temperance we're all quite intemperate and that is we just we lack to we lack restraint and moderation so we're willing to do these things because we feel like they need to be to get done and we're willing to take those risks so as a as an industry and especially as competitors we are quite intemperate in that sense it's also with training it's also with diet it's also with gear uh it pretty much encapsulates a lot of damn near everything we do in temperate like that we have a listener by the way who is going from She's traveling from the US for work and she's going to Italy Switzerland Denmark and I can't remember one other country don't take anything to Denmark she's like I'm on cycle should I bring this stuff with me I was like espe she's she's a female bodybuilder too so she's not going to necessarily fit in Denmark and Switzerland both I don't think are places you oh Denmark they they come into your house and any time if someone said you had gear they'll just come into your house they have no you know it's funny sometimes I don't want to go down a political Rabbit Hole here I'll just say this in the United States we're spoiled and we we have you know our constitution and it's freaking awesome obviously it's the reason our country is so awesome and everything is based on that we have rights all these other countries man we got to stop complaining because they can just come in at any time and they can just go through your [ __ ] and there isn't anything you can do about it say about it you know even in even in the UK when I was over there everything is CCTV oh not saying it's necess but like all of a sudden we' be riding driving along in the car on the wrong side of the [ __ ] road with a steering wheel on the wrong side all of a sudden slam on the brakes go slow for a minute then speed up again and during a conversation not saying thing finally I noticed that it was related to like paint lines on yeah the cameras man the cameras for speeding tickets and things like that but they'll say you watch crime shows from the UK they're like they're always pulling up CCTV to see where everybody they know where everybody is at any time it's crazy Victoria was working with John back when she went to Denmark for a talk she was she was doing a uh some sort of talk over there and so that's back when she had a decent amount of muscle she's going to do like women's physique basically and she went into a regular commercial gym and they told her she was like covered up too and she was like they said to her you don't belong here literally just you know small girl going to any gym you don't belong here yeah to get that in the United States you got to go to a Planet Fitness but I'm anyway yeah that was a good one hey pick one condiment for the rest of your life salt hey that's actually not a bad choice I mean condiment honestly I'm almost down to just using salt like because I'm well I'm out of hot sauce right now so I'm just eating salt okay yeah I can't I can't do hot sauce it gives me uh horrible horrible heartburn yeah you know I'm probably right there with you Sal I'm not a big condiment guy anyway never been a ketchup mustard tell me this I find that I need condiments more in the offseason when I'm eating a lot more food than I do because when you're restricting things that taste overly amazing like you know typical foods that people eat um you really start to get the flavor and your your your taste buds change from when you're eating just regular clean Natural Foods I enjoy them personally so um yeah if you're depleted enough chicken and rice tastes really really good all right skip I want you to pretend that that Andrew didn't give us like the most boring it's a good answer don't get me wrong but but pretend like you you your brain wasn't programmed to think that because it was kind of a good answer like and all that what would you have said I don't use condiments that's the thing you don't I don't season your food I'm I literally I'm an old school choke it down I don't [ __ ] you don't put any season besides sodium and I've got a bunch of it over there because my daughter is is big on it and she's careful with what she uses you know she doesn't have anything with maltodextrin or sugar anything like that in it but even the straight up ones that you know you get from Whole Foods that that are over that encounter I just don't use them I don't dang I just don't care I use salt pink Himalayan seesaw that's it yeah I don't and I'm and I'm not a big fan of me one of the things in my intake forms for new clients is Skips uh dos and don'ts and the don'ts says anything with Walden Farms on it oh yeah because want to get into all these sugar alcohol issues because I found this with clients before maybe you guys have too there you're going through their diet and everything you're like God you know outline what you're eating so I make then they come clean they're like oh yeah well I they're eating so much sugarfree syrup that they're basically flavoring the syrup with the oats it's just a bizarre bizarre thing to me so to me I look at these things like they're not necessary they're not adding anything of any nutritional value so just eat the food like just I'm sorry just eat the food mustard soy sauce salt okay well the other thing though because how often do you let's say you're using a hot sauce or a mustard you use it for three months straight and then like one day you go to eat it and you're like I can't even take a bite of this I'm so sick of this salt the sauce now but salt it stands the test of time right like and and it has a benefit for you so that's how I look at it yep exactly all right anything else we got guys anything we want to cover um good show coming up this weekend on Saturday Texas Dallas yeah yeah got uh Andrew Jack uh doing it uh Jordan hutson's doing it coming off a third place finish in Tampa um you were you at you were at Tampa I I assume with Nate no I chose to sit home and not watch the show while Nate got on stage yeah yeah it was at Tampa did you see did you see uh Jordan janowitz uh yeah I so what he said because we just had him on uh it's just bodybuilding he said that Tyler said come in a little bit harder would you say that he had a little bit of little bit of room to get a he he said I've seen you harder and I you know Jordan is absolutely freaking nuts right so I think what Tyler said was true that he has seen Jordan a little bit harder and Grainer but with that being said out of the two 12s Jordan was the hardest and your feedback like come in like that Jordan janowitz that we saw at the Texas last year yeah one of the Texas shows where Jordan was just like he got second but he was harder than hard and grainier than grain um yeah no no I mean Jordan's living dude Jordan was on the national circuit for years grinding away dividing his time doing his thing you know got his Pro card and you know got his second place last year and then he won the Tampa he's going to the Olympia you know I mean that's that's a dream for most of us man like he he's he he has good genetics right he's he's got good genetics but I I think he's just grinded it out he he he he Max he's maximized his physique and he's stood the test of time and he's getting his just rewards and um I could be happier yeah to see a guy like himim you know because he wasn't born with like a Keon type structure or you know one of like he he built his physique he still trains hard as hell and um it's just really cool to see a guy like him going to the Olympia now so is it or is it keone I I don't know honestly I don't know okay because I always read it as keone but that's just me I guess I do want to add I wasn't going to but I will say publicly that when I get back from we have a wedding my nephew is getting married at the end of the month and we're going to be that's in Michigan then we're driving to Milwaukee uh for the next weekend which is my son and his wife's reception because they eloped earlier this year congratulations to them um so we're going to be up there for a week when I get back um I did have a conversation with Justin Harris and he is willing to work with me we're gonna we're gonna work together this the first time that I have handed we had a long conversation and it was all uh very good it's the first time that I ever will hand over the Reigns to somebody and um I oddly when I got off of the call just felt really relieved like I was in a different spot so over things it is it really is a big I almost felt just this huge just this huge relief this almost like a hope where I finally realized take me a long time I've known it but I it drove the point home this year I have to have somebody to pull me back just a little bit because things go great until they don't and my old school mentality because I've always done it and I've never been able to not do it myself but I had to accept that I can't do that because I will not be able to move forward if I don't and he's if I don't work with someone and he's the you know no disrespect to you guys at all because you guys are great at what you do he's the he's the one per he literally the list was like one person and I think it's because I've known him for so long yeah of course and his methods are they they are they're not the same as mine but they there's a lot of parallels and um just the history there I just I just I just trust the guy I don't know there's just something something there but I'm really excited about it and what made me feel good was I think he's just as excited about it as well U I love that dude he just really was and I and and to me that was important because uh you know not that I just I'll be another client to him but it's it's important for him because he knows what I want to do and we went over a lot of stuff I showed him you know some videos and stuff posing and and he knows I think we're on the same page and I heard something from him that I haven't heard from anybody else before and it backed up what I had thought and I'm not going to get into what the specifics are but that's what kind of set my mind at ease and I thought oh I'm not insane I'm not you know I'm not being unrealistic or anything like that so I am really uh excited in fact it's kind of a gross understatement so there are no set plans yet we talked about a few things okay um but it's pretty exciting so I put that out there dude since the time like I can't remember when it was it was a couple years ago though and and I wanted you to do this like I wanted you to turn the rains over for a while and I know what that means to you being like cuz you are you're pretty you you like to be in control let's let's be honest you know what I mean I prefer self-sufficient but in control is true and and I I I think this is like honestly man this is the thing you needed like so I as your friend and as a fan of bodybuilding and want to see you do your best man I think this is the best thing you could do I appreciate that which what show we looking at uh I don't know if that's that's something that we're talking about um I have an idea I'm not going to say the name CU it's almost a year away yeah I I I would tell you this if if that's what we decide to do still this year um I would keep it under I'd tell you guys but I'm not going to publicly there are too many things this is going to relieve a lot of stress for me yeah so I'm not going to add to it by like publicly going this is what I'm doing because there's everything from unforeseen injuries there's everything from to be honest with oh you're not GNA get hurt you're not going to get injured no I don't think so either and and and I've been injury-free for while all I'm saying is I'm tired of explaining to what to me what is these this pattern of failures and they wouldn't be to anybody else I don't think but to me they are and it was the pattern that I started to see that I thought oh oh [ __ ] like what's the to the point where I think I even said I it was turn a riddle show that we did yeah I took the opportunity to say that I don't even know that this is what I want to do anymore because it was getting so frustrating and and for me to say that publicly you know I was a little uh I wasn't detailed about the reasons behind it because it didn't fit that particular time during that discussion but I've had a lot of um a lot of processing going on and I know that I can't continue I do know this I can't continue the way that I'm going and calling the shots I can't it will not work and it took me a while to figure that out so I was really glad that he that he was is excited and willing to work with me because if he wasn't I I I probably would have waited for him to or or I would have tried to work with somebody else and I would have felt like I was settling or that it was kind of a consolation it doesn't mean there are not great trainers out it's just those parallels and the Rapport that I have with him there's just something there that is important to me so you know him it's like the early intense muscle days yeah oh yeah yeah early early 2000s I mean we literally came from anabolics.com the anabolics with ex and nobody knew who we were and we buted heads a couple times but then we we just had a lot of parallels and we you know I'd say something out there and he'd message me and go bro pull it in that sort of thing and and it was like okay yeah he's probably right you know and I don't do that very often a lot of times I'm like yeah [ __ ] you mind your own business all that sort ofit that's what you need though is somebody that you're going to listen to you know what I mean no question yeah no question said you know he's like it's going to be collaborative too but he said you have to be willing to let me call the shots and I said that's what took me a while to to reach out I know and I wanted to reach out to you but I know that I have to be good with that and I'm good with it's 100% it's a lock what you tell me to do I'm going to do I'm not going to say oh I'm you know I'm depleted or you know I need to load or whatever if I don't load I don't load if I you know you want to do high whatever you're going to be the opposite dude you're going to be the one who's like I don't need to load I need to that's what that's what I actually started doing over these last couple years and it probably to my detriment it's something that I have I'm not used to doing I never used to second guess myself never did I always treated myself like a client and and I would to the point where I would say and i' had said this so many times that I it's almost embarrassing now is why do trainers work with other trainers like I don't need to work with anybody else I trust my process because I was able to make those decisions without them going against what I needed to accomplish and now that's just not the case and it's not like oh you need to load no you don't it's more it's it's that lack of that intemperance you know that intemperance thing where it's there's no Moder there's no restraint there's more training there's more volume there's more cardio there's more dieting knowing that that in the back of your mind this is probably not a great idea and then everything comes through screeching halul part of it his age because I I don't I probably did some of these things earlier but earlier in my career for lack of a better work and it and it didn't catch up with me like it does now it's so much more important now that these things are regulated yeah because I continue to get into really good condition but then I start to lose the size I start to become so so depleted it's a it's a it's a long conversation I I need to stop there but I'm in basically I'm just really happy with with things how they're going to go I say how they're going to go the situation of working with him and seeing how things are going to go because if it doesn't work then um I'll be honest I mean I would be done so and I know that well just tear Justin up be like Justin screwed up man you know yeah exactly like I'm blame paying to skate goat you exactly like 50% of the competitor I should have done this on my own the whole time you know like I don't know what I'm doing anymore so I need to learn from you so I'm going to pay you he was laughing that's great all right guys we appreciate everybody tuning in and of course go to body berry.com to reach out to Andrew team skip.com to reach out to skip the new Team skip.com website Che out your Che out your YouTube what do you got going on YouTube right now uh I'm working on the the it's a huge project the skip load video is huge because it's so so in- depth and I got to cover so many things like calling out Chris Williamson of the Modern Man podcast for you know the ex reality TV star couple sh out gonna take a couple shots at Jordan Peters because he uh he made a couple comments about I'm not gonna you know no ill will there but he said a couple things that I didn't appreciate uh about Skip loading during yeah during the Q&A saying that that's not well something if a method isn't used I'm paraphrase if method isn't used uh by pros and on the Olympia stage then you got a question whether it's it's like really used by the most genetically Elite people in the world but where anything you do with them is going to make them look better than 99% of the people then it doesn't have Merit that that's a horrible argument but I have with every Pro division from bikini to men's physique including Manny at the 212 who arguably was in great condition every time he did it uh except for the last one which had nothing to do with skip loading had more to do with diuretic use but the point is is they're just I thought it was an unfair statement I'm not going after him all I'm doing is I'm using their words against them because if you didn't do it right or you don't know the method that's not a very good reason to shoot it down and I did not expect that from him so what it did tell me was I need to put this information out again and I need to put it out in depth so that more people can get to it who don't know who I am inside the industry because the Modern Man podcast reaches a million people who are not in the bodybuilding industry they need to know my side of the skip load method and then if they don't think it works or they think it's crazy that's on them I don't have anything to prove I just want to put that information out there unfortunately in defense of myself in my methods yeah and anybody who's gonna say that something never works I think is you got to kind of question that to begin with it's a great sales pitch yes I know like you can say never and won't and don't and yeah you speak it's all day until you know you're you're not right and it's just your opinion as a reality star H there you go you know I can even skip loading even works with people who want that Marky Mark Funky Bunch the Z he had some underwear model uh pictures up on his site so I thought that was kind of funny and he admitted to doing all these things wrong so I just think it's an unfair statement and that's I I need to put that out there so that's the main focus right now after the skip load one everything else that comes after it's those those videos will be easy nice reach out to me guys MCN diets gmail.com and of course check out true nutrition.com use our code think over there to get some additional savings get your carb powder get your high quality protein powders team skip protein team skip you get uh I've been using their uh greens formula now it's unflavored it literally just tastes like greens I don't have a problem with it and I needed more vegetables so it's working Pro tip when you get the team skip protein get mix at 50/50 Marshmallow with chocolate or Marsh mallow with salted caramel you'll thank me later it's insane I want them to put out one that is literally a combination call it s'mores because you mix the chocolate with the marshmallow it's crazy I like the marshmallow treat now and I also my favorite though is the chocolate peanut butter cup that's that's my flavor can't do the marshmallow by itself for some reason I don't know what it but when you combine it three or four different you can yeah it is it's very sweet or even with a peppermint Bart uh chocolate peppermint Bart with marshmallow no that's not for me but I could see it I could see it you like peppermint that sounds good and of course supplement source.com out for great deals that change week to week thank you to everybody from patreon I think we still have some patreon questions left we'll take of those in the future for another episode of Blood Sweat and gear guys we will see you soon and thanks everybody in the live stream you guys are awesome thank you for hanging with us like subscribe comment a thank you Andrew I was trying to find a spot where you took a breath throw that in there without cutting over you but [Music]