I'm joined Now by Texas State representative James Tarico thanks so much for joining me thanks for having me so you're one of the few Democrats who's been able to lead with Christianity in a way that I think most Democrats maybe except for like Raphael waro aren't able to do and I want to talk about that in the context of what national Republicans are trying to do right now obviously House Republicans just Advanced a budget blueprint that would seek to cut Medicaid and food stamps and of course these are programs that that benefit the disabled and the sick and the elderly and children and so in light of the fact that you know again you're one of the few people who really is able to discuss this from the perspective of Christianity can you speak on on the hypocrisy of today's GOP where they will use Christianity as a shield um more broadly speaking but then on the specific issues where they can really kind of put their money with their mouth is and back up their words with actions they're perfectly content to do things that really stand in St contrast to the very religion that they hide behind yeah there are so many self-proclaimed Christians serving in Congress they're supposed to be feeding the hungry but they're cutting food stamps they're supposed to be Healing The Sick but they're eliminating Medicaid they're supposed to be serving the poor but they're cutting taxes for billionaires it's because they're not following Jesus they're worshiping Donald Trump so this is not just a political problem this is a theological problem this is a problem in the church the church that I'm a part of the church that I love and so that's why I try to spend as much time in churches as I spend in town halls or in settings like this because we have to go to the root of the problem and that is the the heresy of Christian nationalism that is taking over my religion and so how do you extricate Christian nationalism from Christian and I know this is like not a problem we're going to figure out in this uh in this podcast here it's obviously a much broader problem but what do you see as the solution even if it's a long-term solution because because I guess the encroachment of Christian nationalism is has been has been there for a long time it's obviously really per pervasive and and it doesn't seem like it's retreating anytime soon yeah this is something I think a lot about and spend a lot of my time uh working on you know first I think we should take a look in the mirror and and by we I mean the you and I and the people on this um on this show your listeners um we have seated religion we've seated Faith we've seated spirituality to the right wi um that started in the late 70s um after uh Jimmy Carter Was Defeated into Ronald Reagan's presidency and there was this marriage this Unholy Alliance of the far right and and um Christian nationalists uh we didn't necessarily have that term back then but that's exactly what they were we called it the religious right uh but it is essentially people in power using religion to accumulate wealth and power for themselves it's it's really nothing new we've seen it throughout history but in its in its current form it really started in the late 70s and that's partially on us as progressives because we allowed that to happen we seated the field to our opponents and it's had disastrous consequences I bet there are a lot of listeners um to your show that love Jesus that believe in the teachings of Jesus and yet they have walked away from the church they've walked away from religion and they have allowed the other side to have a monopoly on faith and so we've got to stop doing that we have to start reclaiming this so if you have viewers and listeners who consider themselves faithful whether they're Christian or whether they belong to another tradition and maybe they haven't been as active I would encourage them to start showing up at your local church start to reclaim these institutions and start redirecting them toward their original goal which was loving our neighbors and that's something that we can all support and so that would be my my first step is for us to start fighting back because nothing's going to change until we do that a as you've been making your case and I know that you have been making this case really effectively and you're again one of the only people who can speak on this with with some Authority because part of having it does feel like even Democrats have seed this ground largely to the right even if I believe from from an Outsiders perspective that they largely have no no basis um to to Really claim Christianity given what they're trying to do more broadly but in your um efforts to kind of to kind of you know make Headway here what have you found is the most effective approach I mean I know calling out a lot of the hypocrisy I feel like often times we're in a hope we're in a post hypocrisy world and that even being able to say like you know hiding behind the shield of Christianity while at the same time trying to strip Healthcare away from the sick and food away from the hungry in in a normal world that that that would be enough to really like break through in terms of what we're trying to do but we're we're not really in a normal world anymore so I guess given given the the PO hypocritical post shame world that we live in that kind of presents another obstacle and so have you thought about how to overcome overcome that in politics in 2025 where the same the same factors that would seem to matter 5 10 15 years ago don't really exist today well you know I think starting to speak about this is is the first step because we've been so silent for so long and and some of the members of of our Coalition on the Progressive side have been hesitant um have been afraid to use religious language or moral language in general to to Advocate and argue for our positions that has to stop and it can't just be me and Rafael waro we have we've got to have a lot more people doing that and this doesn't you know I'm sure you've got folks watching who are not religious this doesn't have to be limited to people who are formally religious most of us are spiritual in some way especially those of us who are who are doing political work we do this for moral reasons um we we need to use that moral vocabulary to connect with people right I mean this Christianity is the dominant religion in the United States and so this gives us an opportunity to connect with people who aren't in our Coalition and bring them over to our side because we are using their same language that that is a way to connect with people who aren't already with us so we've got to start doing this and it's got to be more than just a few people in the Democratic Party part we've all got to start reaching for that moral language and that religious language to be able to connect with people because I'll tell you Brian there are a lot of Americans there are a lot of Texans who think that the Democratic party is hostile to religion and so we've got to we've got to get around that we've got to dispel that myth and we've got to start actively reaching out to people of faith and let them know that they have a place in our Coalition that they are welcome in our Coalition because there are people of faith Faith there are Christians there are evangelicals who are seeing what Trump's doing and they feel uncomfortable but they don't feel that they have a place in our Coalition and that's got to change if we're going to turn this thing around have you been successful in in persuading folks I mean again I know I've repeated this a number of times but you are one of the only people who is able to actually make a persuasive argument on this front and so in doing so in in your in your work have you been persuasive at kind of giving folks a permission structure to recognize that their only option isn't a Republican party that that yes um espouses Christianity but really abuses it that's right you know I think uh the results in in my elections speak for themselves you know I flipped a trump District when I got elected to the Texas legislature it was a district that voted for Donald Trump in 2016 I won it in 2018 and I held onto that District after redistricting things got a little messed up around here but you know I was able to build a coalition that wasn't just Democrats it included Independents and it included some Republicans and I did that by using U this moral language to build a connection with people politics is about addition and not subtraction and Democrats and progressives in general have forgotten the art of persuasion we we've convinced ourselves that everyone agrees with us we just got to turn them out to vote right I hear this in my state all the time there's this line that Texas is not a red State it's a non-voting state and and and that may that may feel comforting uh but it is a dangerous way to think as a as a political party because it gives us an excuse not to persuade people not to make the argument and win the argument this is something that that the right-wing has been doing successfully since Donald Trump first got elected they are are making the argument constantly in the Public Square and they're winning the argument often times I believe that we have right on our side I believe that the American people's moral intuitions are aligned with our positions but we can't take that for granted like we've been doing in the Trump era we have got to aggressively and clearly and confidently make the argument win the debate and be able to bring people over to our side um because if we just keep doing what we're doing we're going to keep losing and and we can't afford to lose anymore well winning the debate is actually a great segue into uh the next topic that I want to cover and that is this Feud that's kind of erupted between you and Texas governor Greg Abbott where you have been um pushing back against a billionaire class in Texas that's looking to take B basically dismantle public education in the state so they can put it toward uh the this private school Voucher Program um Greg Abbott tweeted back at you while you while you after you posted onto Twitter and made your case and he said the only minority destroying America are the Democrats they are smaller in number but still destructive their policies and candidates were crushed in the last election the more they double down on ideas hostile to voters the more Republicans will win thanks in advance and so you wrote back Governor keep tweeting at me I already offered to debate vouchers in person on your terms you're trying to make this partisan but you know Republicans and Democrats both oppose your voucher scam if you truly think this is right for Texas put down your phone and debate do you anticipate that you're going to get any response from Greg Abbott other than just him hiding behind a computer screen and and doing the whole keyboard Warrior stick well I'm anxiously awaiting a phone call from the governor really you should you're want you're going to want to keep your phone line clear for for a while now yeah you know I I don't like getting in Twitter feuds with people I I I we leave that to the to to folks who are online but I think elected officials need to be a little I'll take care I'll take care of that that part for you exactly exactly you know I I I think these platforms are are a helpful way to get our U message out to to people and to communicate with our constituents but if elected officials who are not just observers but are are actively making policy if if we can't defend those policy positions in public in a debate setting then maybe we shouldn't be passing those policies into law and so you know I've I've made this offer to the governor it's a serious offer i' I've told him that he can pick the time the place the format the moderator he can he can stack the room with all his supporters whatever he wants to do to make him comfortable um I'm all I'm all willing uh I just I feel strongly about uh about my position in this debate and I think it's it's the right one you know this may sound like it's only limited to Texas but it's actually happening in States across the country and Donald Trump just made private school vouchers one of his top educational priorities for the country so everyone needs to wake up to what's happening here in Texas essentially they are trying to defund and privatize public schools and give that money to wealthy people who are already sending their kids to private school that's why I call them a scam because it sounds good when you hear slogans like school choice and educational savings accounts those all sound positive but once you read the fine print once you read the terms and conditions you realize it's a ripoff it's a scam and it is if it passes in Texas if it passes across the country it'll be a a historic transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top stealing from the poor to give to the rich and so I as a Christian can't support this I as a as a former educator am going to do everything I can to stop this from passing in the next few months and I hope the rest of the country wakes up to this attack on our public schools and stands up to these billionaires who are trying to hurt our communities all over the nation often times we we're we're in a position where we have the opportunity to fix something like is the case right now W but but we don't take those opportunities because it's not exactly clear what the natural conclusion of all of this stuff is going to be um what would the natural conclusion of this Texas uh private school Voucher Program look like 10 20 30 years down the line if Greg Abbott and Republicans are successful at doing the thing that they're trying to do right now we don't even have to consider a hypothetical we can look at Arizona they passed a voucher scam just a few years ago not even a decade ago and it is already bankrupt their public education budget you know I've had so many folks reaching out from from Arizona from Florida uh from Indiana who who have already tried these voucher scams and it's already destroying their public education system you know the the forces Behind These voucher scams the big billionaires like Betsy DeVos like Tim Dunn and Ferris wils the billionaire pastors here in Texas their ultimate goal is to dismantle public education and replace it with private religious schooling for every child in America that they're trying to build a theocracy until we are clear eyed about that we're not going to summon the the energy and the courage to fight back against this effort to destroy public education this is this is serious and a lot of people you know there's a public school in every neighborhood a lot of us like me grew up in public schools and so we take it for granted but we've seen just over the last few years that rights that we took for granted can disappear and the same is true of public education it is a this idea that every child regardless of their skin color regardless of their zip code is entitled to a free quality public education that is a revolutionary idea in human history and it's not that old it's only about a 100 years old and it is a very fragile idea and it can disappear if we don't fight for it and so I I hope that people wake up to what's happening nationally Elon Musk is going after after the Department of Education and wake up uh to what's happening in the States including in the second largest state in the country here in Texas and finally let's finish off with this and I want to build off of what you're talking about right now but taking education for granted is is obviously a theme right now but it's the broader theme that's a microcosm of a broader theme of really taking so much for granted in this country that we may stand to lose in the next you know few months or years and that includes you know a Health Care System that's functioning now at the hands of an antivaxer of democracy more broadly uh which of course we've taken for granted uh for hundreds of years now to the point where we have a Republican party that's more deferential to to to a budding autocrat than than you know the Constitution that bounds him and so what is what is your reaction to watching a lot of what we what we have come to expect in this country um really fraying at the fringes here uh in in this moment where where Republicans have full control and and they're exercising it in a way that we haven't seen before it's a wakeup call and it the ball is now in our court you know we can complain about Donald Trump all we want we can complain about his administration all we want but this is on us we have to fight back if we're going to save this country if we're going to save states like Texas and and that is entirely within our control there there is a I think a feeling of hopelessness um among progressives across the country and and I want to be honest I'm tempted by hopelessness too I don't think you can turn on the TV or open your newspaper or scroll social media without starting to feel that hopelessness right but we have to resist it with everything we have you know we started this conversation talking about faith you know in my faith tradition Jesus says blessed are those who weep which is a strange thing to say right why would someone Who Weeps be blessed but I think he's trying to say that sometimes you can see the world most clearly through your tears meaning that it's a it's something that awakens um um a reality that we weren't in touch with before so I know people are feeling depressed I know people are feeling down they're starting to feel hopeless but that is a sign that your heart still works that you still are a human being and that's not nothing um that that is something to build off of and so I want people to embrace this time um in the political Wilderness because you can learn a lot out in the wilderness and that's when new ideas and new leaders and new movements come forward and so I guess my message to you and and to your viewers is we we've got to get in the game and if we're going to save this country it's it's got to start with us and so the time for licking our wounds is over and it's it's time to get in the fight James as always beautifully put um you know I I I I mean like left left speechless basically so I I appreciate um the the words of optimism and the inspiration I know the audience does too and appreciate you taking the time today thank you Brian [Music]