so yeah we're gonna go over to set if you have any questions we are taking them afterwards we're taking them afterwards so let's see teach Marv Rio beats were saying yeah very like very common for pages that they try to roll in against Marv which normally normally it's not gonna work good to hold down though that's something people don't do enough when they like when they have committed to a grab committed to a roll to hold down but that's very very good to crouch a very important thing in this matchup is to try to predict you on Marv goes for down tilt versus when he goes for aerials that's actually like most characters when you face Marv is trying to predict when he goes low with his attacks and when it goes high with peach floating over with backer it's a pretty good way to deal with down tilts but of course if it does fair it's a tough one so a lot of it comes down to predicting these these things also if the mark down tilt your shield and you hold the turnip they tend to dash away and then throwing turnips can be pretty good in these scenarios as well that's another way dealing with the down tilts going in with downer instead probably better it's high percent I would imagine we're actually like you know we'll connect to a Down err maybe not at the crouch but connecting to a downer high damage sending them off stage pretty yeah unfortunate timing in the backer I think it tried to like really get like a good flow of cancer but ended up getting a bad one misjudged what side st. was gonna land on that's also very important it's like what side very opponent land on a good player will make it very hard to tell if you're gonna land in front or behind will teach you luckily have down smash that is actually really good in these scenarios so if you can't tell is he gonna line in front or behind me I would just go for down smash like secure any damage now the downside whiffed should you down throw yeah I guess like downfield could have worked out like pretty big reward if he gets it but for me personally for me personally when I get this grab if Marth Mar for any character if they get down thrown in this scenario you can di in front of peach down for right you goosebumps like right up which sub pressuring grab so if they da behind and they can't grab the ledge basically you can react to all options here so for me personally I would rather either go for like a reaction with - attack or try to react with float in there and then set up a punish take down tilt is a hoarder commitment harder to land but sure it can be fine it can be fine good CC by saying I would imagine that same you ticking uses this a lot as world is actually to like CC aerials from peach and then after that you grab what you can do in these scenarios is that you attack but you don't fast fold right away and then you fast fall behind them and then you might actually get you know another flows can salerio a down smash and could be pretty much anything I like another example of this is like when you up for a Spacey on the platform if you do a full hop up there some spaces at low damage will you CC and up smash you can appear and then get behind them with very precise timing and spacing but it's better to like short hop instead like a lot of features Falls for like they do full up up up air the foxy see up smash and they die so yeah in these type of scenarios if you predict if you predict a Crouch you can attack try to align behind and then do down smash yeah saying it's gonna go for a lot of these tech chases sometimes I feel like it's actually worth it like against more Flair sometimes if you di to the ground the law from Ford fro you can use di like a little bit more way and they don't always react to the fact that they can - attack I'm not entirely sure if this applies to sayin or not but that could occasional be a mix-up the reason teachers tend to di down in a way is so you can create a texture scenario instead of a straight-up - attack but sometimes if you go for like that in the texture scenario as the peach a lot of times the more players are not like they're not cashing the times you're not dying for the ground so that could be a good thing to do sometimes a little bit like a little bit - I talked about but like too much in I'm gonna do my best to talk about okay so far I don't really like the fact that Rio beat is not really playing with turnips I really think in this matchup turnips is the main thing every time you can't pull a turnip you pretty much should you limit marks ground movement more it's easier to approach like overall I really value turnips in this matchup these peach is not like really really fast enough to really deal with Mars yeah st. is so good at those you always need to di way I know Ruby knows that but for people that know ya if you di in Amar's for throw at high damage and he wave - he actually can't connect into tipper you can always air it out child so I was good oh yeah I was about to say that's such a common option here like here it's so common for Marth - for Mars to waste their double jumps I tried to bait it out a lot by like jumping up floating slightly below platform height then the morph tends to like try to fall down with an aerial and then I try to jump up an air backer a stir move whiffed or go center stage and try to punish them like last they ass thing like literally land as a good attempt was a good attempt a little bit too many early dash attacks you can't afford to be greedy with the hashtags in this matchup and there we saw another one when one players notice that you're greedy with dash attacks as peach they will keep shielding they will keep shielding that's when it opens up for you to go in with grabs or flows cancel sunshield super important and that's a bad di again I imagine that maybe is afraid of to grab into pivot tipper but Sain actually likes to do a lot of apiece I noticed that when I played against them as well that he he knows that people are afraid of his grab so he up B's instead catching the bad di yeah this is another thing like the more I played Marv's the more I was like in this in these scenarios when you come back with a miscibility peach is actually [ __ ] ass at punishing people with in this ability it sometimes it doesn't even feel like you have an instability because players came easily maneuver around her on platform stages that I think it's just better to pull a turnip and keep stage control with the turnip rather than trying to chase them and then in his ability run south and you get hit this is a very very common theme I think it's just better to pull a turnip and work from there I don't know about enemas I've heard it's a little dry for NY locals right now it is dry but I mean Rio beads been playing for dry but I mean these type of scenarios more important on stages like yo cheese like the stages with like a platform that is not as high as manifold be some peaches on the ground you actually can't full hop up there to reach the platform you need to use your double jump but it's very important in a way when you here have some someone above you that you are a horizontal distance between yourself and the person B coming from off stage or disadvantage you normally don't want the horizontal distance to be too close because it makes it much harder to cover if they are trying to go above you so you normally want to have a little bit more horizontal distance because otherwise what normally happens in these type of scenarios as we see here is that you can just go above and especially since peach is pretty slow you got nothing out of it the best thing really probably could have done asked this mistake was made was to try to double jump land on the side platform and then punish on the top platform and I think it's just a matchup that you keep notable tri-state regarding Marcus tricky one thing I noticed is that a lot of Marv's overuse I'd be if you predict Martha's gonna side be you can throw your turnip in advance many times and if they press IB they will get hit because basically they can't react to the startup like it many many times they can't react to you throwing a turnip and if you predict that osip is gonna come and they do that side be like as you are throwing the turnip then there is gonna get hit I got mew2king and saying a lot with that so that can be a good thing to keep in mind I think marks overuse I'd be a moth offstage in speech all right so I would say in these type of scenarios as you get this - attacked one of two things one of two things you should go for one you predict that they're gonna miss tech slash role in and you go for attacking them right away or you think that they are gonna roll away so you actually can't punish them in this scenario if mark rolls away peach is not gonna make it there in time to get a true punish so then what you can do is either move forward like push you know center stage having advantage or you pull a turnip and you kind of like accept the fact that you have a little bit of stage control and you have the turnip in this scenario what we see happening is that same missus attack but REO beat it and really really commit to anything the situation's kind of like got out of hand and now he ended up in this advantage so right here you already have to make up your mind what Mark is gonna do no tech or role in and I would suggest attack if you think it's gonna roll away then you have to decide between pushing you know stage or pulling turn it but this like waiting a little bit it pretty much turned out to wasting your advantage another thing is saying specifically and I actually told saying this at Summit it's one of the few things I think he actually haven't really stopped doing despite me thinking issue he still likes to run up with shield intact chase is quite a bit and he also likes to - Dennis in tech chases neither of these things I think is very good if you shield like if you shield in the text race on someone rules at that time it's so much more annoying to cover rather than if you don't have the shield up and if you take if you - dance in tech chains if you know that your opponent is gonna - dancing tech J's you can roll away from them at the same time as they were about to - away from you and they get nothing so it's also important to like what option is the mark picking as he has you knocked down yeah that's that's very very risky not quite sure what really was trying to go for here but yeah that's that's dangerous especially that jump as well he barely barely got out of the range oh that was spicy that's good that's really good yeah that's a very common option from our from the ledge to jump up fair what I like to do is that I like to we'd like staying that range where mark thinks it can get me and I at the last moment wave that back or dash back and then try to punish him you can see hbox do a similar approach with puffs where he stays in that range or you can't really hit him it looks like you can but you actually can't and then as more of comes up with a fare he does a backer a lot of characters do a similar type of like approach here towards you know keeping Marth corner as a pretty good attempt but not quite in time there what you can also do is that if you think that you're not gonna be in time between this fair and this shield is that you can also use go for like a late late flow can so you can go for a grab straightaway another thing I would like to see from Rio Beetham if Morris wall is to throw turnips upwards when Marv is coming back he is the turnip it does block Marv from doing quite a few things like the turnip isn't the way and he either has to play around it or catch it right or try to hit it and a lot of the more players are pretty bad at playing around turnips that you throw up as well I think it's a pretty good option to like limit his options and making him like waste time pretty much [Music] Westphal is really good at wiggling out debecker [Music] yeah it's not too much REO bees can do the only thing here that I like to do is that I wait I never up be right away here pretty much because mark still in that scenario mark still has a mints ability after he grabs the lunch right so here say no still has a mints ability so timing docked me he still has an instability if you wait his invincibility will run out and if you move back and forth a lot of Mark players will like they won't even try to react they will a lot of them actually will try to predict when you go up so if they predict them they're wrong with the timing they might roll at the wrong time you get back even if they try to react you still keep the more honest that they have to be on point with their reaction rather than up being when the Mars has some instability left because then you're basically giving away your only chance for free yeah a lot of sigh B's from saying again here as well I think yeah I think you're throwing more turnips can be good as well if they're committing to committing to the side beasts I like the term throwing to turn it down yeah I don't think he does - lets yeah quite a few allege - up and then immediate attack from saying that's a bit lucky like sometimes sometimes when your edge guard attempt doesn't work out and your opponent grabs the ledge sometimes used to have to like you know be a little bit brave and actually just go for a shilling hoping that they without like Galaga move oh that was a downer downer in there we talked about earlier yeah that's the tag and shield again you can see that Ryobi feels like yeah they'll be gonna close that you saw there at the end I think Rio beat new the Otis to push was on him right there were some situations like on that platform where so ya know overall overall after game one I would say the biggest takeaway from me is that I personally do not agree with the the straight-up fighting as much Murph is really fast really good range I really think turnip is the D way D way to play the matchup so I would like to see much more turnips run up shields run up shield wave - back slowly trying to gain space let's see going ham on the shield [Music] yeah marks marks NER actually has like quite a bit of an angle where you can hit him like at his head another thing to keep in mind is that you can actually poke poke marks marks head when he's shielding a lot you can like float at a certain height and if mark shields you can like Pope in there it's a precise spacing and height but it's very very good to learn I was actually really good tech from Seine yeah overcommit yeah he was predicting saying to go to lunch straightaway which is not necessarily an horrible idea but I still feel like more players tend to JA jump all ball jump aloft like they tend to use the second drum quite a lot when they're offstage now he got around and he turned an entire situation around that was so close to being amazing from saying also not too surprised that he's he might be very good at power fielding yeah those are the battles that are really hard to hard to win a speech against Marv like superior range for Marv and you see Pete has already started for a long-ass time to do this fair and Marth like all right I still I still win [Music] yeah no no okay okay he now REO beats got it but sane is using shield so so so much you you gotta grab more if you don't make people afraid of shielding they are gonna keep shielding it's such an important thing I know peach doesn't get the strongest punishes from RF but you still gotta make him respect your grab I was unfortunate that upper missed attack punish the landing another kind of weird over commitment by the ledge and same jumps over again here like again saying gets to jump over and he's got like he turns the situation oh yeah saying jumping over again he keeps getting away with jumping here he keeps getting away with jumping every single time and it turns the situation around that alone would actually change so much man I feel like Zane has sort of a read on Robbie for a while playing just a really calm space in game coming in with these mix-up flow timings but always with a fare and now Zane is just facing right outside of it and don't let him jump okay all right in these in these type of scenarios what I like to do like a lot of people just do the downer right which more of Eastlake used SDI down to avoid the downer tune there what I like to do sometimes is to fall down with a single downer and then now smash immediately afterwards it's a pretty good mix up as unfortunate yeah I kind of like this sequence here like you know slowly slowly trying to gain space gets the opening and then goes in that's not like a lot of the peach mark matchup like weaving back and forth back and forth back and forth make it tricky for Martha tell when you're gonna like try to go in yeah saying keeps shielding he keeps changing so much shielding shielding shielding was unfortunate yep double jumping in those needs to be punished more and to jump over again yeah st. st. never goes to lunch here at least not in this set at least not in this he always always go and he now he gets center stage again I think sometimes if you have enough time pulling the turnip to cut off like the option to going high or at least like restricted or sometimes as we talked about earlier jump float fast fall down to bait out an early attack from ARF and then go in I think those are the two best ways of dealing with that on average lunch yeah yeah I so think as I said from game one as well I still think Reid is trying to base seem like he's trying to fight him like to like you know right on I really want to see more turnips even if saying it's good at like power shielding them you can still mix up with throwing to turn it the other way and then attack for example kind of how you can bait out dr. Mario and Mario scape like people think you're throwing the turnip at them but you're throwing it behind and then use backyard I can see that working in peach morph to where you throw it's like you throw it in a way where it's not gonna hit the shield and then you go in right after I could see that being alright as a mix-up yeah that that this is such a this is such a common scenario if you actually use turnip against mark so you throw a turnip and it couldn't bounce on the shield right since in bounce bounce on the shield it will still have in hitbox so if Marv tries to act right away sometimes he gets hit by the turning so that's something Rio beats could have capitalized on like in this scenario I would just say go for go for like an arrow or something that's so dangerous yeah in in these type of scenarios when you're like very cornered against Mars in bad decisions it's very important trying to get to the ground if possible like that should be your main priority on such low damage because if you get to the ground then if you hold down then the only thing that gets really beaten by that is grab but that you can di down in a way to like not lose your stock for it same thing with these type of air dodges you should try to air dodge so you get to the ground as soon as possible I'll say that's your best bet to survive he still gets away with it though and okay commentator curse I guess even though the sense already you know sane actually didn't have the perfect positioning here but you can actually stay in position as Marth to react to the tournament winner and react to basically anything teach teach to us I actually taught saying that it's on it and he got so much better at doing it right after but if Mark is staying a little bit too far away which I would say saying is doing here then if you do a tournament winner then I would say it's better to pull back because when you do this turn is winner you cannot hold forward or hold back but now gravy has gone back very very far forward if he did hold back instead even if saying managed to reach him it was still not going to be a good fair to set up for a spike would have been able to help me and get back yeah that's the backer over to down total we talked about it's good not a hundred percent a fan of what happened right I have to ask you hit this bear we already have to make up your mind as well what you're gonna do and I would say it's again either pull a turnip right away or fight for more stage what happens what happens is that he lands the back yard he moves away from RF then goes back in towards Marth and then pulls a turnip it's a lot of wasted time and he was forced into shielding because he was very late if he pulled the turnip right away there then it would have turned out better or if it worried like was you know pushing for more stage but waiting here moving back and forth and then pulled the turnip put him in shield here still turned out fine but yeah that was mainly saying this enough to be honest yes that's cute yeah also instead of trying like I'm not sure if the real beat is trying to see see all of these fairs or not but if you're having these type of battles with mark when he's trying to fair and you - dance I would say goes or more times to go for a - attack those are more times to go for - attack I feel like Ray meat could use that quite a lot more yep that's the double jump again the classic that's like bad situation for saying and he jumps every time also another fan casus insane is going for some of the power shenzhen turnip if you do expect the power shield on the turnip you can actually maneuver yourself below the turnip I know you don't have like much lag as you do with like a shine like you shine back a turnip but I would still think that the same false process could be good where if you throw the turnip you predict the power shield and then you like fastball and float under the turnip is one match when I plating his lovin at a chaplain 2012 I think when Game one of grand final so I think it is it might have been Game one of winners finals but I think it was Game one of grants I'm battlefield where I throw a turnip he shined it and I was like floating underneath it and then go in it's more lag but I still think the same file process could be good to get around in some scenarios of course you might not always have the chance I mean hey take away platforms from saying and trying to you know down talking my boy Trev Spidey's hella good again speech though terrific is also hella good again smart alright that's good I like that the surprise like super office more grabs more grabs grabs let's get down smash [Music] yeah good sharking it's not really too much I can say about that like if more place correctly is so hard to get down a speech against them yes more turnips more turnips well he was a little bit late there he was a little bit late there he had a good opening there sometimes you have to recognize if you if you're not like there right as an opportunity happens sometimes you just have to give it up this was like noticing too late that oh I have an opening and then trying to go for it but then saying already had time it's so important it's the same thing in tech chases for example if you're trying to tackle a someone and you notice [ __ ] I reacted too late and you still go for the grab you will be like spot all shine or taking place shine sometimes you have to recognize that all right I was too late I will back off also in a lot of these scenarios for example gays same space fair here right what saying will do is he will dash away right and he doesn't have to really be afraid of any turnips because real beet is not important too much he's not been pulling them pretty much at all right so that's also a thing like how does your opponent interact with you when you were shielding did it tend to grab a lot after do they tend to approach you do they tend to dash away from you a lot of these tells where the mark is moving after a specific scenario that's the things you need to keep in mind to get more turnips it could be that me really have two different philosophies of how the matchup should be played but from my point of view after all my years of experience I really think the turnips are super super important and these are the type of scenarios as well when it comes down to can Apple attorney versus Canon not pull a turnip it has been some panic rolls but I guess this one was amiss click oh that's such a good slide off all right ribbit here was using the turnip I was talking about I don't super liked the fact that it was leaving the ground in the first place oh I would rather you sub stayed on the ground and through this turnip to keep myself a little bit further away from saying turned it around on him he flipped the script right there's the grab that's a grab and got killed was a little bit later I like the idea like same isn't there he's here about to use his jump and then really tries to go in a summize a little bit later saying gets to move away if you're a little bit tighter without timing you can force mark to shoot which is a good position that's one of these turnip holes I talked about like finding the time finding the space willing to turn it yeah peach at lunch that's that's a hard one sometimes you have to go for that like all-or-nothing toad but is rough it's rough but yeah I don't know I feel like we went over a lot of important concepts of the matchup I really think looking for the double jumps get much better at pulling turnips when you can pull them I really think it's very important in this matchup I can't stress that enough more grabs as well way too much float aerials that didn't lead into anything and trying to punish Marv when he ants more instead of like pretty much always CC but yeah now hope you all enjoy the set of you and now it's time for questions what's upstream I think it was something like that before maybe slightly smaller [Music]