Transcript for:
प्राचीन भारतीय इतिहास और महाकाव्य

now when you're talking about Mahabharat this is the first time I've actually heard someone on the show visualizing a map of ancient bhat that spreads from Indonesia right up to Syria in the Mahabharat the people came from as far west as Syria wow and as far east as Indonesia the bhagad who fought during the Mahabharat war came from Iraq Bagdad where was Atlantis that was like a Sund land beautiful place but most of it went underwater Plato referred to atlan is disappearing into the ocean but something came out that has a connection with a ramay do you agree with the fact that human beings originated in Africa there is a recent paper 2020 paper the paper title goes something like this Homo erectus left Africa written as Homo sapiens sapiens like as a thinking human and do you know where they became thinking human take a guess India obviously everyone's favorite topic vimanas which is somehow made it to the West Jo Rogan keeps talking about vimanas there are enough descriptions about pushpak viman in in waliki ramay which many people don't know they match with what we know about the vimanas today for example when they took off they made big noise air currents made them unstable I can sense so many archaeologists getting pissed off with this conversation and I'm enjoying it they will say four Tusk elephants existed 9 million years ago that's what I know now there they accept science by the way therefore Raman happened 9 million years ago how stupid is that there's a lot of people who consumed both these episodes and are saluting you in their hearts like at this point need more Indians like you I'd argue that this is the decade where centuries of cultural wisdom meet modernday historical tools finally and while the whole world is waking up to its own lost history in Africa and the Amazon we need more people like NES Oak to help us understand the Lost history of India much better the last step episode was centered around both the ramayan and Mahabharat this episode has moments that will blow your mind away it's much more centered around the Mahabharat please sit back relax Deep dive into the research presented on this episode because the All Star L shoke is back with another spectacular research oriented study oriented special of Mahabharat on DRS [Music] we released that last episode a few weeks ago but actually we're recording it just 1 hour apart I'm still Blown Away by everything you spoke about in the last episode um I was waiting to find the Indian version of Randall Carlson and Graham ancco I'm glad we have him on TRS today Welcome Back N OA thank you very happy to be back yeah um the last conversation needed me to speak on behalf of the Skeptics uh because it was possibly your introduction to the mainstream Indian internet in many ways uh I'm pretty sure in the last few weeks people have made clips of you talking about the Mahabharat and rayan uh we stopped that conversation at the point of DW's uh submer submergence destruction by because of flood seing waters and you were talking about cataclysmic events you were talking about worldwide floods that we also hear about in other cultures like the story of gilgames and Mesopotamia or GRE or the Greeks Atlantis Atlantis Plato talking about Atlantis 9,000 years before him and bingo we have the evidence for it yeah we'll definitely dive deep into Indian culture in this one as well uh I think we didn't complete that Loop in the last episode about Atlantis you spoke about dwara you spoke about what was possibly the land of Lanka which is not the same as Sri Lanka today we also spoke about that land outside of Tamil Nadu Kumari kandam Kumari kandam uh so I will give you two options I would prefer that you pick the second option the first option is that we talk a little bit about Kumari kundam the second option is we complete last time's Loop and we speak about Atlantis let's begin in the west and then slowly move to India in this one basically the graph you showed us the last time where we spoke about how the Earth generally has warming and cooling periods that's why the ice ages exist that's why periods of warming like the current one that we're in exist uh there are also jumps in terms of warming now jumps could be because of multiple reasons one of the main reasons is tectonic plate shifts and randomly a massive portion of ice melting not just because of pollution but just because of how nature Works yes uh now a massive piece of ice melting can actually change sea levels all over the world and that's what people attribute the formation of the Black Sea to that's what people attribute the um disappearance of dwara to and also Lanka raan as Lanka and also Lanka uh simple question to you so I'm not giving you an option where was Atlantis okay great question I would love to answer that and here is the reason why I called it great question because I don't know the answer do people know the answer uh people really don't know the answer that's why there are speculations all over right from Antarctica was it uh Atlantis now this is Graham hanok but uh they have thought of Indonesia which is now much of it is underwater but it wasn't so if if you go back say 10,000 years ago or 15,000 years ago and definitely 20,000 years ago that was like a Sund land you know it's called the Sund land you know Sund upas Sunda you know that's s n da Sund land uh amazing fertile Place beautiful place but most of it went underwater talk about Indonesia Indonesia so could that be Atlantis so essentially think of any place around the world and somebody has speculated if that is Atlantis so that's everywhere honestly I don't know the answer but something to think about on Indonesia so that's uh right now our model for anthropology is that everything started in Africa and from there it went out of course it came to India significant portion then India was like a genetic Melting Pot not just Melting Pot in fact a genetic Cuisine all kinds of dishes were prepared you know and all you have to do is like go to Google and type A genetic map you will see coming coming a thread coming from Africa to India but India like all kinds of genetic markers going outside India on the Y chromosome but also on the X chromosome um but talking of Atlantis although the search for Atlantis is still going on and really nobody knows two things we know for sure that Plato referred to Atlantis flooding I mean Atlantis disappearing into the ocean 9,000 years before him now Plato's time is about 2,000 years years ago 9,000 years before that or Plato's time is 500 BC so 2,500 years ago before 9,000 years before that is what 11.5 years ago and that's that catastrophic rise event to that we looked at but where was Atlantis honestly I don't know but something came out I'll just mention the Antarctica because that has a connection with the ramayana right now Atlantic is sorry Antarctica sorry not atantic Antarctic is under a very thick sheet of but the geological data shows and this is a wonderful work of many researchers but specifically just to name individual person I would say Charles habgood he taught at MIT he taught at Harvard College history he taught history there but he was a scientist par excellence and not truly appreciated by the mainstream academic Community again they object to his research but they cannot come with the alternative okay so basically it's a with you know it's a useless type of discussion he has shown with a phenomenal research and I have studied that for many years now that there was a time when Antarctica was Ice free maybe not the entire land but parts of Antarctica were ice free to the extend there were possibly human habitation or definitely rivers rivers flowing and vegetation lo and behold that Peri R Maps I mentioned in the previous episode the Turkish Admiral you know the Navy guy when he shows that land mask called Antarctica like Antarctica which fits the right location that map PIR map is shown with River channels on Antarctica Now isn't that fascinating because as far as the mainstream Academia is concerned the Antarctica is covered with ice for thousands and thousands of years but that is not not so now what is the relationship to ramayana ramayana describes that actually raana this is in the utarak the sth uh Kanto of waliki ramayana RA ran is going around the world conquering all lands and he goes to there is a description he goes to yamapuri and the Antarctica the southern tip is the yamapuri Yama the land of Yama that's why we consider the southern Direction as a direction of a Yama Yama is the one who supposedly takes our atmas you know afterwards once we die that's the you know religious point of view so actually there's a description in utarak he goes to yamapuri then he reconciles with Yama and from there he goes to patala now if you put the geography together you can very easily see India going to Antarctica and if you just go on the other side do you know where you go you go to Argentina I have been to Patagonia both on the Chilean side and also Argentinian side in fact geologically you can see in the past those land masses were connected now there is a water because of sea level rising so that's the point on Atlantis so Atlantis has not been found but Atlantis research pulled out these wonderful gems you know that's the benefit of it I mean in my 7eventh grade geography class I learned that the North Pole and the South Pole in the region surrounding it are cold because of the lack of the sun's heat basically reaching those two parts of the Earth because of the tilt of the axis so kind of the physics fan in me is questioning how they were ice free ah great question great question two answers and I'm simplifying it sure the first answer is where the ice is formed is a somewhat complex phenomenon it just not purely related to how much sun rise goes or how far it is from the equator it's somewhat complex you know it is a mixture of Too Many Factors going into it but broadly speaking what you said is correct as you go away from the equator there is more colder places the second one is uh beyond the tectonic shift which is the work of Wagner like about 100 years ago and he was basically rejected uh ignored by the mainstream Academia in 1930s he could not see the success of his great theory in his lifetime what was his theory Wagner the tectonic plates shifting of a tectonic plates okay but there is so now that now that finally they accepted tectonic plates now now there is another theory this is not a new Theory Einstein was fascinated by this Theory I'm going to tell you and I just briefly mention it in the previous episode is called Earth crust displacement now this is fascinating so think of this as a orange is a good example so let's say we loosen the skin on the surface of the orange so orange inside core Remains the Same we don't make it move but the Earth crust which is about 50 kilm thick you know on an average so we can move the crust without actually moving the core hm now be fascinated be ready to be fascinated now what happens is suppose my Antarctica is here on the southern side so inside core Remains the Same but because of Earth CL displacement if it I shift it little bit so because the Earth core is same Still Still the South Pole is at the same position but my Antarctica is no longer at the South South South Pole so Antarctica has shifted and you can have that and actually there is evidence this is the work of Charles Hab good so the South was still as cold as it is today correct but the land mass of Antarctica was probably at a different position on the globe very good and not too far from it but shifted from where it is today it was cold but not so cold that it's covered in ice because it had a different position different latitude different latitude right to now in the South there is not much land so it's very difficult to explain but the north it is very easy to explain in fact today the North Pole the terrestrial North Pole is right in the in the middle of Arctic sea but if you go back about 15,000 years ago and now you're you might get a goosebump moment if you go 15,000 years ago the North Pole the terrestrial Point location of North Pole there is a evidence to show that and Charles ha good work does a great job was right in the middle of bay of Hudson which is if you look at the Canadian map like the big ingressing sea kind of thing that's a b Bay of hson now imagine if the North Pole is in the Bay of Hudson and we can draw the map if we can if you open another one and draw the map of North America I'll show you where the Bay of hson is if there is a North Pole right there now can you tell me what will happen in the area surrounding it it will be filled with ice yeah well that's a North America Ice AG H watch out okay and before that if you go another 15,000 years before the nor nor terrestrial pole was near between Alaska and Canada there is a place called Yukon Territory in that area again like we've P there very good so right now think of that uh where where the um uh the Canadian border that light orange color ends further there you know where the PO is Right basically all the lines going together meet which is right in the middle of Arctic sea now you see Hudson Bay yes and that's where the North Pole was a terrestrial North Pole about 15,000 years ago Bingo that explains why there was a Ice Age there now what happened once that became iy so a lot of water is stored on the ground what that did basically the Gulf of what you call the Gulf Stream the hot water going there that current was stopped because there was a ice right the new fundland area the eastern part and therefore now the Europe the Western Europe also became Frozen because of the Gulf Stream the Gulf Stream water is no longer going there H and that's why when you go to Ram times and even before Europe and North America both Western Europe northern Europe and North America under covered in ice very cold they were the actual North Pole region corre what we count as the Arctic sea today this is based on Earth crust displacement mainstream Academia does not understand it therefore does not agree with it but there is a sufficient evidence for it so parall like the north of Russia yeah and the AR sea which is at the north of Russia must have been habitable yes and that's what if you check the work of Graham hanok or otherwise the Siberia uh was like a beautiful place like a semi tropical type of thing or lighter tropical and those are the descriptions we see therefore sugriva before sugriva is referring to the time before ramayana saying sugriva says I I I'm aware of this land and in the Mahabharat there is no description of that area being bad or something because you know the pole is not has not seen the effect of it yet yeah so so that's that's fascinating what causes the pole shifts just tectonic plate movement uh no the tectonic is the ground plate think of it like you know there are seven eight actually there are more but these are physical plates like India is on a certain plate that plate came from Africa floating on lava yeah floating on lava Japan gets tons of earthquakes because almost if you see that tectonic plate graph seven plates come together in the Japan so just imagine you know they're trying to push each other and it results in just earthquakes and shaking of land in Japan because of that that's one phenomenon that is not to be confused with the Earth crust displacement because displacement doesn't change the core it just moves the piece somewhere there whereas tectonic is like India coming away from Africa and meeting Asia okay that's the difference gotcha okay back to India um I think a good point to begin today's conversation when it comes to the Indian epics is a book on astronomy that you were telling me about outside huh what is that book okay the Astro so remember we talked about why only India has a iasa the the very stable language with low to no drift that is very critical the second most critical aspect is the very precise accurate uh sophisticated understanding of astronomy India can check their boxes antique and ancient India can check the boxes on these both counts and the third one is the guru shisha parara which is also phenomenal in the field of astronomy suryya sidhanta I mean there were many text many might have been lost but whatever is remaining within that the Surya sidhanta is a ancient Indian text on astronomy much revered of course within India but even outside India when British became aware of it aware of the India you know they came here the first thing they did one of the first thing they did is taking away Surya sidhanta taking away meaning taking Sury sidhanta translating it was actually a transatlantic project about 17 18th century and after that transatlantic project professors from America and professors from United Kingdom and professors from France were working together to translate suya sidhanta is that much important they understood the importance of it many of our modern day Indian academics or otherwise do not understand it why I won't blame them completely because this is not just a simple pocket book that anyone can understand in fact it has about 500 schloka okay 500 schok uh 14 16 chapter something like this it is it is meant as a pocket ET book but pocket book for a astronomy expert or astronomy genius it's like think of all the physics formulas in modern physics just summarize there somebody a novice will not know what to do with them but somebody who is expert will know what to do that's how it is so it is written in a very cryptic language but it is fascinating because in the last episode we looked at the multiples of 7,000 like starting with us 7,000 years ago Mahabharat 14,000 years ago ramayan and more than 21,000 years ago Rua just as a Simplicity for Simplicity sake you will find that there are epics uh in the suryya sidhant text now these are not easily revealed to us but somebody has to work on it and many great researchers have worked on it if you find those epics they parallel these great historical development in Indian civilization or ancient Indian civilization you mean at these points the book was slight slly changed slightly changed something significant was happening okay let's uh let's take this quick Journey Through the different epics of Surya sidhanta and then you can see the connection with ramayan Mahabharat and even other things if you look at Surya sidhanta today and you want to say okay how long we have this text and there is some reference that you can read into Sur sidhanta for technicality I will just remove it just will say these are the longitudes of nakshatra okay we'll leave it at that whatever that may be what are their numbers so they are given in Surya sidhanta today we know know the longitudes of nakshatra if we see the gap between today's measurements of longitudes of nakshatra and given in sua sidhanta we can immediately calculate that happened about 1500 years ago the measurements made in Surya sidhant of longitudes of nakshatra 1500 years ago 580 C 600 c something like this about the time of Arya you know something like this now when westerners when they came across Su sidhanta and they found this reference do you know what they said they said oh Su sidhanta is written 1500 years ago now that itself was fascinating to them because they had the whole entire dark period until Copernicus and Newton and so on so they were fascinated but that is not the truth unfortunately this fakery or maybe error on their part maybe not fakery it still continues in academic circles like they think Surya sidhanta is a very of recent origin it is not let me walk you now further if you go further back and find out what is the another Epoch where some correction some update was made to suya sidhanta now why do we need updates because astronomy is very very stable but when you go back thousands and thousands of years even those things start changing you mean astronomy is the study of the Stars around study of the stars planets nakshatra positions Seasons the connection of season with Indian lunar months and so on so forth got it but over thousands of years the map of the sky changes slightly map changes the constants change for example Earth has many motions one is Earth is rotating around itself that's one motion the second one is Earth is rotating around the Sun that's a second motion then Earth has Earth is when it's rotating Around The Sun It's inclined at an angle with respect to the Sun interesting now it has one motion around itself then around the Sun those are two there are many motions I'll tell you only four sure the third one is like this the Earth's axis where it points to over a very long period of time the Earth's axis points in a different direction so like a top the motion of a top it goes like this that's called Precision of the equinoxes Precision of the Earth's axis is 26,000 year long Circle and then there is another one is a is a nod like a Japanese nod like this so this right now the angle is 23.5 but it's not always 23.5 it goes from 22 to 2 4.5 or something like this no this is where it comes into the picture now these are this is this milanovic cycle you know these all adds up to those cycles that we talked about the sea level rise and so on okay now let's go back beyond that 500 C the first Epoch going backwards we find is about 3,000 BC there's some interesting thing happened that is when the Earth's axis was at 24 degree the inclination right now 23.5 that was it 24° all Indian astronomy text as a Simplicity used 24° as a inclination but people the westerners thought when they translated Surya sidhanta they thought Indians don't know how to measure it properly so they took you know very crude measurement 23.5 they're taking it 24 because they did not know at that time the Precision of the Earth's axis or what it does but Indians are talking to the Precision you are engineer do you know what Precision they are talking just as a Simple Thing 1 divided by 3438 3,438 that much Precision they're talking when it comes to Earth's inclination and so on so if you go back 3,000 BC something happened which is the Earth's inclination is 24 24° there are enough evidence in Surya sidhant there were re what you call re readjusting of parameters okay uh you have enough evidence that many parameters in astronomy text of there were readjusted in 3,000 BC that unfortunately we think that's the beginning of Kaluga no it was a beginning of a calendar because they corrected the calendar so 3,000 BC is another Epoch now go further equation of the sun which means predicting where exactly sun will be in the sky now because we see it every day we think oh that must be easy no it's not easy the equation of the Sun that was adjusted not defined for the first time it was adjusted re written corrected at the same time as Mahabharat 5500 BC that we can show purely based on the internal evidence of Surya sidhanta this is a work of great researcher Dr Anil Naran he was a former ISRO scientist and wow it did it happen because of a Celestial event also taking place uh why they could have done it we don't know at least not for the equation of the sun sure 3,000 BC is correct because many things were changing so they did that but the question you ask is very important for the next Epoch now if you go beyond 5,500 BC let's come to 8,000 BC just like I told you about the longitudes of the nakshatra now there is other on so longitude is the vertical where they are latitudes is like the circles like this Mumbai is like 19 latitude North you know the latitudes of nak that are given in sua sidhanta if you try to take the latitudes then and now look at the latitudes now and see how long we have to go before we can match the both you have to go to 8,000 BC which is 10,000 years before today as in the point at which a star has been above a point on the earth no no star no no that is when the stars are there they're fixed and they are there they have there's some motion okay nakshatra is a portion of the Sky p a star or a portion of a sky so portion of a sky is a nakshatra and to designate that portion just like when we say Mumbai exactly which one is a Mumbai we might say Flora fountain or hutatma is a Mumbai right so to specify something they use a specific star in that area 13° area and they call it a yogatara yogatara of that nakshatra so effectively right now the way modern humans map out the Earth is latitude and longitude of the Earth by drawing lines on the earth similarly at that point they used to uh map out portions of the sky with respect to points on the earth they did both so there is a there is a longitude latitudes on the earth yeah they did both it's amazing okay and that's why ujan has so much importance because uin is the northernmost point for the sun to go as far as North 23 de remember 23° so 21st Tropic of Cancer huh so 21st June and simplifying it 21st June Sun would be exactly above uen because it has gone all the way to the North and then now it's going to start turning backwards you know backwards meaning to the southwards so it was mapped actually see again this another digression but the when they refer to brahmaa they sometimes say it is a 2 Dee and people sometimes descriptions come like that and say 2° of what they are taking the longitude latitudes there and mapping it on on the surface so like when you go about 110 kilm the latitude approximately will change by 1° they they know this they knew this but back to this so at 8,000 BC the Surya sidhanta latitudes numbers are such that if we do the mathematical precise analysis based on the best of the modern astronomy we know it tells us that those latitude measurements of nakshatras were made 10,000 years ago now even to have the concept of latitude and longitude the ma the measure them see this this discussion that you and me are having would be completely alien to a good number of academics good number of uh modern individuals who simply are stuck in like a 200,000 BC and 3,000 BC and cannot go any further but 8,000 BC is not the end if you go further back now 8,000 BC why now you ask me like was there any specific reason there was a specific reason couple of reasons one thing think of this as the end of younger drers so maybe the civilization is beginning now that's my speculation younger drers impact the is about the meteor hitting the yeah cold first fire and then cold for very very miserable life conditions for like A500 years or so an unnatural Ice Age I mean for lack of better word is natural no that's a good way to describe it fabulous it wouldn't have happened in the natural course of the earth correct correct unless a meteor hit which it did so basically when the conditions became okay correct that's the end of the and so that is one reason another one is that very traumatic period is Remembered in a Indian memory by making use of astronomy again it will be digression maybe I'll not go too much into it but just a briefly touching on it it's known as rohini shakata rohini is a nakshatra one of the 27 nakshatra it is made up of that area of a five stars like a V English V you know so end of that Corner that V is that rohini star and then there are two star two stars anytime Saturn or Mars goes inside that V shape is considered that planet did the B of A rohini rohini Shak B it split the cart of rohini that is the astronomy term in the Indian astronomy why is that important you see the Saturn and and then Indian astronomy text like the Surya sidhanta says who does the uh who does the splitting the cart of rohini it says Moon of course always does it but the two planets additional two planets who do it is Mars and Saturn now I'm telling you until 100 years ago other than Indian astronomers like Shankar balakrishna dikhit a contemporary of lman everyone around the world considered this impossible that Saturn and Mars could not enter going inside that right in uh about 150 years ago Shankar balakrishna dshit did the calculation just imagine without computers and said uh if Saturn does it uh or Mars does it or Saturn does it it will happen before 5,000 BC now that itself is fascinating I have shown with a simulation that yes that's indeed happens both Mars and Saturn starts splitting the card of rohini only if you go before 5,000 BC sure that's with the modern thing right now tifr right in Mumbai they published a paper uh maybe 20 years ago and they showed that uh Mars can do it and they showed the data using the NASA data jet propulsion lab data uh which is great and kudos to them mayang and I know them but they also claimed Saturn will not do it and again just like that arundati Vish I had a shha in those I said if suya sidhant is saying it I trust suya sidhanta more than the modern guys modern academics okay I don't trust academics anyways okay but so I said let me do it and when I actually tested it I have shown and there is a co- researcher of my M AA modak from Pune he's in Finland right now we actually showed there are four five instances of Saturn splitting the card the point is these are all things happening most of them during the younger dress and what is the correlation after saying this Rini shakat suryya sidhant and the commentators on Surya sidhant Indian commentators like Ganesh dadya go on to saying when Saturn or Mars split the card of Rini it is a very bad time for human beings bad time for the Earth they're saying based on their younger D experience so there were people who could do it okay couple of questions one um I'm an engineer I know how computers work I know how the universe works in terms of they say that mathematics is the language of the universe so even astronomy it seems to me that when you're talking about angles of the earth rotation Revolution all that it's basically mathematics yes so if you fill all the mathematics into a computer program won't the computer software be able to simulate the past in great detail yes uh I'm assuming that that's the case so then why do we need research to be done on when Saturn and Mars enters a particular okay uh great Point uh it does it but uh just like if you dig uh there are archaeological objects down there and they have a date in them there is a carbon organic matter in them but somebody has to dig them somebody has to take it out take it to the lab you know Mass spectrometry spectroscopy it's something similar so the data exist see the NASA jet propulsion data on the astronomy exist but in order for someone to go and look at it that person should know suryya sidhanta that person should know these verses that person should understand the meaning of it that person should have a conviction that this is a factual narration of some time and and then would be willing to work for many years with no guarantee of success and no monetary benefit very likely spend money from your own pocket to figure out something and somebody says okay so Saturn split the card of Ro so what okay how does that benefit me today dear ISRO that's all I have to say Okay end of that particular tangent yeah the other question I have for you is when is the next point that Saturn and Mars are going to split the C of Rini uh we don't know uh it will because it's a combination of many complex phenomenon that needs to occur but let me quickly complete that in the sense beyond that 8,000 BC there is a 12,000 BC epic right which matches with ramayan what Sury sidhant says is that there were time when there were two pole Stars two pole star in the sense one in the north one in the South South very bright and anyone standing in at the equator like Singapore so to say looking in both Direction they would see these pole Stars at the Horizon wow now in that chapter chapter number 12 of su sidhanta it says two additional phenomenon just to manage time I will not go into the deep details one of them is again the obliquity has become 24 it was in 3,000 BC but if you go back in 12 12,000 BC again is 24 do you know why because it's 24 it hit 24 in 2 12,000 BC then went to 24.5 and came back to 24 that's why this 3,000 so that that's another evidence and the third evidence is something more complicated I I I I presented on it at Oxford conference and they were totally lost they had no idea so I'll not do that right now but you can take this on a shha those three phenomenons all come together and blurt out 12,000 BC and our paper is out there Rupa bti and myself the paper is published paper is out there presentation is out there my point is that is also there in Su sidhanta now what's the importance to ramayana R 12,29 guess what here two bright stars are given as a pole stars now when does that happen something happened in 3,000 BC but also happened again in 12,000 BC guess what ramayan describes the PO star of ramayana times that is not the pole star we have today because see earth axis is pointing somewhere when it changes the pole star changes okay and ramayana says in such a clear beautiful language no ifs no buts brah rash the are rotating around thear which is brah rashi bramar rashi is a abijit is a Vega in modern astronomy same time when this sugri is going in the southern direction again just like East direction we talked about southern Direction he's giving directions to W party he's saying how far you are going okay go to the southern tip of India now to describe where that Southern tape of India is of course they will see the ocean anyways he says go to the southern tape then climb the mount Mahindra and then you will able to see Star austa now somebody who doesn't know ason says what about it but today we can see Star austa even from New Delhi but during the ramayana times you could see Star austa only if you go to the southern tip like kanyakumari then climb Mount Mahindra there is a Mount Mahindra then only you can see and the reason you could only see after doing all of this because canopus or Augusta had become a poar in the South so you see the ramayan description you take the suryya sidhanta suya sidhant says 12,000 BC Ram evidence says 12,000 BC Bingo okay so the nakshatra at that point which was over South India Today Lies Over New Delhi no no not quite that so austa is still further south but what happens is because of this procession and because of their movement austa what's happening is this like think of the crankshaft Motion in a car like you know the Piston is going back and forth right but that turns into a cyclical motion so think of the Earth's motion here as a cyclical motion like this but that turns into for a person in say Mumbai or New Delhi uh when can I see austa so if New Delhi person is standing there for 15,000 years he will say I see austa there I don't see austa now okay I don't see austa 4,000 years go by I don't see Augusta another 4,000 years go by oh I see austa and he slowly coming up so something that's a circular for a person on the ground with respect to specific star it's going to become back and forth motion okay got wow you explain some deep level of astronomy how deep have you gone into astronomy in your studies I would say not enough uh see what happens is uh this is true Newton has said it like you know when people Newton people were fascinated with Newton and they asked him so you must be feeling great and he said no I feel like uh I have found maybe a pieces of sand from the whole uh beaches you know whole Beach right in front of me it's like that more you know upanishad talks about it more you know you realize how little you know true that's been my journey over the course of the show also AB at every point every 50 episodes I think there's no more content left and I'm I'm humbled more at every 50 episodes same here um same here what I want to ask you uh about is the 34,000 year mark you mentioned that outside yes so effectively what you're saying is Surya sidhant was written 34,000 years ago that's as far back as it sua sidhant would actually go a lot older okay at least some portions of it no the 34,000 uh year event that I refer to 34,000 BC we will call it 34,000 34k BC this is a this is by the way let me give the credit where it is due my co- researcher Rupa bti fascinating researcher fascinating uh by the way I translated for her you know we have a humor going on she says when I tell these people nobody understands that's because she thinks at a very different level you know it's it's a difficult you mean in terms of astronomy yeah she she I mean you and me can do a episode on Rupa bhati's research it is that fascinating and that deep but just this 34,000 so she found a reference in M upanishad or M arak another upanishad you know where there is a king bruhat uh and he be the Kings kwaku Dynasty the same Dynasty as bhagwan RAM so the kings in his dynasty are mentioned but remember bhagwan Ram is not mentioned now what does that tell you bhagan ram is so important in a iwaku dynasty so if there was a discussion of iwaku Dynasty and some king after bhagan Ram very likely bhagan Ram would have been mentioned but that's not evidence we need to look at but he's not mentioned so this is way before that that much we know what he's talking he's talking of some astronomy phenomenon I'll tell you two he says the pole star is moving I'll come back and explain why he's saying that the another thing he says is that the Spring Equinox is in the Maga nakshatra so that tells you when to nail it down and something interesting now this is astronomy but then he says something on the ground he says the oceans are drying up it's scary feeling oceans are drying up meaning the water levels are going down and Ice AG is beginning yeah now we know last 20,000 years they are not drying up meaning this incident just from a terrestrial point of view this must be before 20,000 that's a very powerful evidence now now we have to bring three things together oceans drying up Spring Equinox in a Maga nakshatra and the pole star moving now poar is always moving but in 38,000 BC again we had the same situation like we had in 12,000 BC like bramar Rashi at the poar here and poar here okay so that was existing in 38,000 BC so that moving so 4,000 years they have seen the movement poar is going away baharash is going away that's what BRB has brra has seen he's seeing oceans drying up like that and the Spring Equinox in Maga now from our time if you want to go back in Antiquity when was the last time spring equinox was in Maga it was 8,000 BC but that time oceans level coming up and they were not going down okay so we have to go to another 26,000 year cycle that takes us to 34,000 BC and now if you brra is in 34,000 BC and there are many kings like Sagar and many others are mentioned which means their time is even before that keep in mind as we go back in Antiquity the the physical evidence or even astronomy evidence is going to get less and less yeah that's just the nature of it physical evidence is the evidence that modern day archaeologist count as the ultimate kind of evidence but the truth is physical evidence Fades away it erod it's just because of how nature works because of how time works correct and it overlaps right it overlaps on each other like you built there was a house before it was destroyed and built new house the evidence of old house is almost gone I just want to quickly mention something not related to India which is that I remember Graham hancok doing an episode with Jo Rogan about ancient Egypt I believe he said that the Egyptians that we talk about in the Egyptian civilization which is also supposed to be at the same time as the Indus valy civilization that we read about in school those Egyptians counted them as the modern day Egyptians and they believe that there was a much more ancient race of Egyptians uh dated back to almost 880,000 BC I I have looked at that research myself and I agree with it in fact they talk of these three cycles of this 266,000 years that is 75,000 years right there 80,000 years yeah um I can sense so many archaist getting pissed off with this conversation and I'm enjoying it cuz how else are you you supposed to explore ancient human history there is no way that digging will be able to give you any evidence well uh just because you raised the point let me give you the evidence you can find from dirt archaeology right here in India how's that going back to 70,000 years Toba explosion have you heard this okay uh Sumatra like the indon indon is yeah volcano the a banda that area the volcano came and it spouted Ash all over India but even the big area Arabian SE the evidence can be found everywhere but if you go to India everywhere but jalapur which is in kernel District of Andhra Pradesh you see and other places too but you see actually this is very interesting stone tools first as you dig then you see a ash layer thick Ash layer referring to that Toba explosion you can date it to 72,000 years ago and below that stone tools which means there were people before using it there were people after who survived and it was continuing bam So within the Earth's crust lies the Earth's story yeah yeah my my I wrote three books my fourth book I'm working on is just a simple working title is history of Hindu civilization and uh I'm going to call it brief history of Hindu civilization and essentially going to cover 75,000 years of Indian civilization ah okay so I'm very proud of Hinduism I'm very proud of India I'm very proud of this subcontinental land and our culture I just think over the course of doing the show with Skeptics as well the one thing I've learned is that uh one key aspect was the Zoran religion which I truly believe was a sister religion uh I remember doing an episode on Islam with an Islamic scholar and he spoke about how even Islam was formed due to the religions that existed before Islam and those religions were probably an outcome of earlier religions as well uh corre now these earlier set of religions are called the classical religions and they say that only Zoran ISM and Hinduism are the two classical religions which have survived so um while I love the fact that we've survived I think our time spent in survival has allowed us to create astronomy and shlokas and all these things agriculture navigation all it everything that we attribute to the greatness of it's an outc of us having survived yes I also feel that perhaps zor arism also was is quite Advanced like in terms of it knows a lot uh and I have a very close friend of M zaran Banja is's a Pary and he keeps making fun of the fact that oh we are pares we're going extinct he says it as a joke but the unfortunate truth is that Pary numbers are dwindling yes so even zorin ISM it seems like I I don't like saying this and I know that par is watching this par is are very relaxed people yes so they don't get easily offended I've noticed this but it seems like the timeline of that religion Also may be coming to an end just because of the dwindling numbers correct now that's just the story of Zoras ISM how many other classical religions were there which actually came to an end yeah which brings me to the point of that migration out of africah MH I get that we uh as a human species settled in India and then migrated outwards and there's genetic studies that prove this when you study uh p lineal lineage and M lineal lineage but my question is why didn't humans settle in the Gulf as well okay because the gulf is midway between Africa and India correct so were the conditions in the Gulf bad or good point uh well right now you look at the conditions you know the answer you know your answer other than say parts of Oman Oman is a beautiful place very you know picturesque also but even then within the gulf context it is picturesque you know it's a tough land still so today if the oil is not there and the external uh Commerce doesn't exist it's a very tough life in the Middle East you know just by itself so similar conditions did exist there for a long time also in the northern Africa and so therefore they did not live there but if you look at the genetic makeup you will find there were many times in the history of humanity that the gulf was a thriving Community for example especially the area near Israel Israel Jordan Syria that area for example if you ask academic when did agriculture begin you will get a very ignorant answer that came from a Cambridge University 7,000 years ago into the lavant you know that area and from there it moved out well lavant did have agriculture I'm so surprised that evidence a very fabulous evidence exist for for 100 years a very sophisticated evidence showing that there was a well-developed agriculture in lean especially Syria Jordan Israel that area going back to 15,000 plus years 15 I mean I have the information I don't know what academics do you mean they found tools the grains the they are called phytol lits like you know the grains also become fossilized okay and you can look at them to decide whether they were wild grains or basically cultivated grains and so on so forth very fascinating same thing in India just because of we agriculture let me mention everyone says oh so agriculture came to India from laan nonsense that's the only word in the Indian subcontinent there is a evidence this is a land where if you don't do anything still things grow okay and for a very long time million plus years that is the situation in India there is at least evidence going back to 45,000 years of a wide harvesting of grains their storage their cooking their you know sifling and all of this 45,000 years ago in India in India Africa actually Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka and then in India going back to 10,000 years 12,000 years very good agriculture but do you agree with the fact that human beings originated in Africa that is the current theory there is based on the evidence there is a good reason to believe that like L you know the L initially the Lucy that's why the l you know that the oldest uh thing that the fossil they found and so on not oldest anymore but still but the genetic Trail does tell you that it started from Africa and came here however there is more and more evidence popping up all over the world one of my good friend and my adopted Canadian mom USI ring lip she's a German Canadian has done fascinating research on the connection of pollination languages with Sanskrit coming from Sanskrit that's a sidebar she has done this research too I am doing this research many others are doing it that very likely there were many pockets of human origin just like different animals similar looking animals can pop up in different places very much like that there is but if but even if we keep that aside maybe we have to wait for some time uh there is a recent paper 2020 paper uh the paper title goes something like this Homo erectus left Africa return as Homo sapiens sapiens like as a thinking human and do you know where they became thinking human take a guess India the broader India when we say India of the past like going back Beyond 2,000 years 4,000 years it is in it's very important the Indians understand it the Iran is India Afghanistan is India Pakistan is India even the utarak Kuru utara madra that is India India in the sense of cultural landscape okay so effectively what you're saying is a predecessor which was not entirely human some form of a cave erectus yeah homoerectus actually was migratory yeah and it gradually spread itself out of Africa corre out of Asia and then in Iran stretch it up to India yes uh as well as in Central Asia stretch it up to Lanka yeah that's India yeah that's ancient India that became a genetic Cuisine for human beings lots of uh different you know ranges came and that's how we they are named right now so for example when you see R you know that is for rohini that's how the name is given M from the Southern India like the female Gene chromosomal mitro coronial gene is called mju that's how the names are given n is nasin now referring to the Middle East you'll have to give a bit of genetics one one here I get I get what know we can we can do it now because I think it's actually linked this is how you deep dive into the science of this Theory right right so imagine in a very simple way uh take think of our cricket ball like in Amica in in India everyone understands Cricket right so we take a cricket ball and just imagine it has we put some patch on it like some specific Patch blue patch now because this is cricket ball is dead but with the human beings like they produce children they are going to produce the children with a blue patch on them so to say this is the change that has occurred to the gene okay and if we track it we know we can track it back to which genetic tree we came from that's how these name are so certain genetic code that you can match and say this is consistent we call this muu but if we call it mju if it's a X chromosome like the female chromosome so to say if it's on the Y chromosomes they have given different names like the Main's name to it so to so forth m17 and so on so forth if you look at that you essentially find and this is a paper from 2020 I mean you go to Google Map you're going to find things came from Africa through Gulf Middle East but but then from India just like you know you see the airline map from Delhi and Mumbai like planes going everywhere you're going to see all these lines the mitro the the fam the mother's lines as well as the Main's line like R Gene for example R you know going outside India okay right uh one more angle on genetic studies and this I picked up from Dr n r matri linear lineage I believe it's called metr lineal which is a mitochondrial is a metr lineal in terms of every girl yeah and her mother and her mother and her mother and her mother and you can go all the way back shares something in common one common that is called mat lineal lineage and that can be mapped in the genome I believe correct uh similarly there's patri lineal lineage so you and me as men share something in common with our fathers with their fathers with his father his father his father and it goes back yes that's the basis of everything you're saying right now when you're talking about these lines that leave uh India I think what you're trying to say is that if you study modern day Europeans and modern day Indians they share some common ancestor which likely the Europeans would like to believe originated in Europe the Indians would like to believe it originated in India correct and the science tells you that most of them originated in India based on the age the the Antiquity of that Gene so for example I mean I'll not go into technicality but yes so are exist in Europe are exist in India now who gave it to who that is the question so there is a way in genetics it's not a perfect science J it's progressing tremendously but based on this uh you can say like where you find these uh older Tenn older Cricket balls with the older stamps you said you find in India but you don't find that older one in uh England so you know that it started in India it's something like that gotcha okay but on that topic uh I have something in mind let me share that with you just like we looked at Beyond astronomy multi multidisciplinary evidence there is a genetic evidence a fascinating genetic evidence for Mahabharat showing that Mahabharat happen in 5561 BC so that's what I wanted to share so Surya sidhanta this evidence and then one from paleontology for ramayan now let uh let me ask you a question see and if you don't know the answer that's perfectly fine Mahabharat War happened for 18 days you know in fact vasad used that as a 18 as a number and used everywhere 18 chapters of bhagad Gita 18 aini battalions kind of thing fought 11 on one side seven on another side War lasted for 18 years so you know this they put some magical numerology number into it 18 peras of Mahabharat so 18 oini have you heard that word like a battalion the modern day think of it as a battalion so there were 18 oini that much worth of soldiers fought during the Mahabharat war 11 on the Kwa side seven on the panda side if you look at the Mahabharata descriptions of what that a means how many folks how many folks on horses and you know camels or whatever and the elephants the total number for 18 comes out equal to 4 million male most of the I mean 100% of the people who fought were men 4 million 4 million 40 lakhs 40 lakh people okay I want you to take this number and in the engineering side we are going to solve lot of equations here equation number one so 40 million PE million men fought for 18 days and practically 99.9% of them died that's what Mahabharat tells us uh the estimated population and you know they keep on reestimating because modern new tools right the number when I did this about 5 years ago the number is between 5 to 20 million for our total human population okay in six millennium BC true or false let's not go there it's not important um so for our exercise I'm going to take it 20 million the higher number now in the Mahabharat the people came from as far west as Syria wow and as far east as Indonesia or maybe not IND yeah border of Indonesia like Cambodia and something like this okay and uh so yeah that's the range okay for example the bhagad who fought during the Mahabharat war came from Iraq Bagdad okay but that's another subject now what I'm saying is this is a pretty decent area and for Simplicity I'm going to say out of that 20 million half of the people were affected by the Mahabharat War meaning people came from this area so 10 million people were affected they all did not come so if there are 10 million people who kind of related to the Mahabharat War uh simple mathematics we can do is 10 million in 10 million 5 million would be woman 5 million would be men a reasonable thing okay now the interesting part out of that at 10 million or 5 million men 4 million men were gone in 18 days what are we left with 1 million men and 5 million women what is that ratio ratio is 5 is to one right so suddenly there is this Y chromosome the male chromosome the patriarchal chromosome bottleneck like suddenly a huge male population is gone so now there are only 1 million men for five 5 million women so to say for the further population and so that bottleneck in the Y chromosomes is going to come out as a signature into the future population makes sense okay now if we go here and uh type Monica Carmin space 2015 you got that monik researcher there yeah 15 okay now yeah stay with this paper it's commonly thought that human genetic diversity in non-african populations was shaped primarily by an Out of Africa dispersal 50 to 100,000 years ago here we present a study of of 456 geographically diverse High coverage Y chromosome sequences which means basically men from different parts of the world Y chromosome is me yeah okay including 2 99 newly reported samples applying ancient DNA calibration we date the Y chromosomal to most recent common ancestor in Africa at 254 and detect a cluster of major non-african founder Hao groups in a narrow time interval at 47,000 to 52,000 years years ago that's what I'm assuming yeah uh consistent with a rapid initial colonization model of Eur Asia and Oceana after the Out of Africa bottleneck in contrast to demographic reconstructions based on empty DNA we infer second strong bottleneck in V chromosome lineages dating to the last 10,000 years we hypothesize that this bottleneck is caused by cultural changes affecting variance of reproductive success among males the last line they say it because they don't know about Mahabharat so they are saying that something happened happen in the reproductive guys they're explaining right but it can't be possible that a bottleneck that happened only one other time in the last 50,000 years yes happened because so many men's penises stopped working that's what they are trying to possibly say but it doesn't make sense even they they are saying that we don't know whyus is happen so many penises stopped working because they were dead in 18 18 days okay we are going to look at that don't don't read too much into the diagrams below okay but look at what the colors like the sort of a blue color is for India and you know those dot yellow is for Europe if you notice okay the sort of orange is like for uh uh what is that Russian area correct and so on so now so that blue area that you're seeing is India so to say okay and you find that all of them the yellow is uh Europe uh and so on so forth okay uh the light blue is a North like Middle East and so on so forth the dark green uh below is uh East Asia like east of India I I think the dark green is south Asia oh South Asia sorry the blue Is East Asia right right the blue okay so follow follow those kind of I mean just stay there right now and you see a sudden bottleneck which which is that uh fall you see okay in in all of them no in it's it's in all of them we will see why actually what you'll find is that the green fall if you see the green happens before yellow right yeah yeah because the epicenter is India and I'm going to give you a metaphor to explain that okay can you go down and see there's another beautiful graph I hope it is there so look at South Asia okay you see where South as is yes see where the line straight line starts going down compare that they're exactly on the same scale go up to Europe and notice the the bottom that Europe is later than South Asia you see it's happening later okay by the way the other graphs I showed nobody participated in Mahabharat war from South America from Oceania like Polynesia or the northern Russia and if you look at their graphs actually you can see it right here too they have no uh for example let's look at uh say Africa Africa shows some Maybe maybe that is because of GK you know I'm just joking but well first look at the dark green line which is uh uh South Asia which is India South Asia is a very bad word you know by the way that is to deal with the inferiority complex of pakistanis okay that's why the word South Asia is used it's a world it's a global conspiracy hasn't India what is what South Asia they you know okay so that India look at the first line truly the one that really came to the bottom the first line to deviate come down the deepest the green line I'm following and then if you follow it stays longer at the bottom and almost the last one to recover you see that that is so it's like a BGE you know where we had the earthquake that is the last bottleneck massive genetic bottleneck bottleneck and last one to come out okay then follow quickly two one is the near East which is Middle East you see that orange kind of line just after green it follows down and then go straight up which is like it had a effect like a bad's Army let's say but then it quickly recovered right okay right then you would look at the East Asia uh like uh that Southeast e Asia which is to think of uh you know like Myanmar you know Thailand Indonesia so they also are affected not as much as India and also they recover now look at the yellow line here it is very easy to see Europe see whereas India is like I mean now you may ask the question or skeptic should ask a question I am saying the effect happened in 7,500 years ago right yeah so that is that point between seven and 8 so somebody will say and actually people do ask me oh but why the green line is already going down from 10 H okay now this is a good question but that immediately tells me the person doesn't know anything about mathematical modeling if there are no data points this initial you know where you see 12 and they have shown one constant Point that's a control group they assume that everything is same you know now from that the first deviation data point may be found around 7.5 or 8 but how do you connect those points either you connect by straight line concave convex that's why it is like that because actually it's a steep fall it is a steep fall but on the graph you can't show a steep fall correct because they're doing modeling and they don't know Mahabharat so they have no reason to wait for 5561 BC to bring it down you know so that's the point so this is yeah this is fabulous so the epicenter is India and and keep on going down you are going to find one more one one second I just want to stay on this gra because I am also noticing what you said about Africa yeah uh which has again a smaller dip more gradual dip correct uh I want to see what you're speaking about the Andes which is nothing you know Andes look at Andes nothing until uh roughly 2,000 years ago yeah which is what when Europeans found it no not 2,000 years ago they found 500 years ago but some other migrations happen within that whatever you know we don't know what happened right myad yeah no but I mean it could be that same 10,000 versus 7,000 logic you said it you said it there's no data point that you can't show a steep fall so it's a gradual yeah so what do they do right so what is actually 500 years ago on the graph you see it as 2,000 years ago good point good point so Andy's again the fall happens perhaps because of European Invasion and which are the Siberia which is the pink line yeah again goes like ha no no connection to these Falls see how consistent it is and none of these guys there's no conspiracy between these 92 genetic scientist and N shoke okay so 4 million people gone the 10 million people in the area where the Mahabharat war was affected so to say you know which is what India Middle East and further east of India so think of those colors the blue uh the light blue and a green okay now what happens uh so 4 million people are gone therefore now the ratio after the war is woman to men not the population although I'm showing population but the genetic diversity is 5 is to one okay now little bit of tough science okay stay with me when nothing is like that is happening like a couple comes together to make a baby man has has Y and X everyone follows the lady has x and x every woman has 2 x right so if you just take couples like that what is the ratio of a variation in X chromosome to Y chromosomes there are three X's one y 3 is to one so that is my Baseline now what happens is when you look at the ratio and I I will send you that graph what the graph is going to show is when you look at the female diversity to male diversity the ratio is around three which is how it should be when it comes to a certain time and that time if you look at it is by the way 7,500 years ago 5 it goes like a peak of 16 is to 1 so 16 excess variation to one Y which is to say for that is a absolute number for relative number we have to take 16 divided 3 are you following because three is my noise signal to noise ratio okay so 16 divided by 3 is what five approximately now bring back to here so out of 10 million 4 millions are gone men are gone now the ratio remaining is 5 is to 1 Monika Carin paper written in 2015 who knows nothing about the Mahabharat they are saying there was a male Gene bottleneck Y chromosome bottleneck in 7,500 years ago 5561 BC I mean they don't say 5561 BC the extent of that bottleneck was 16 is1 1 on absolute scale or 5 is to one on a relative scale 5 is to one based on a population 5 is to one in their paper one more thing and what was the epicenter where was the impact of this the highest the deepest India that is that green line if you see that if you see there's another curve is this the graph you wanted to show yeah here see 16 is to one look at the y- axis the that NE ratio is like a absolute scale the female diversity to male diversity NF over NM so that Peak that you see if you draw the line from that ultimate Peak it will come to 7,500 understood look at the look at how wonderful is that Peak I wonder what happened on the previous Peak which is at 55,000 years ago yeah great you ask right that will be another episode you know perh another my speculation is that that is the dashar yudha described in the ruga of 10 Kings 10 Kings yeah yeah but see correct correct 10 Kings but the information about that so little that we I mean I tried to do it we cannot do much with it it's too far back too far back no no too far is not a problem the other one other my speculation was also like Pama getting rid of the wild chatri miscreen 21 times damn yeah the male again you know yeah because you in in sanatan you don't kill off women correct correct yes and one more thing I I want to show you this is very interesting just stay there on this graph no no stay on this graph look after 80 and 70 between 80 and 70 you see a fall in the other direction yeah as in there's more males at these points yeah correct like as if wom uh died right now there was a Toba explosion there okay now we don't know again why men survived more and woman died maybe men were always out there and surviv everyone in the caves woman you know like making the chutneys you know maybe and all the ash went in and they died you know I mean this is all speculation Dam but but that matches with the Toba explosion it happens in the other direction it's a perfect data for additional research yeah so this graph I can tell you remember I said my brief history of Hindu civilization starts with 75,000 years this graph is going there anytime you hear of a earthquake immediately three questions typically come to our mind if you ask any one of these they will say the same thing immediately oh my God earthquake serious oh yeah serious earthquake we ask how serious meaning Rector scale we say where did it happen and we say when did it happen think of this the Mahabharata War as a genetic earthquake how serious it is 16 is to 1 or 5 is to 1 that is the Rector scale genetic scale when did it happens 7,500 years ago where did it happen India and the West knows that it happened but they don't know why now the effect that you see on Europe if I have those additional plots I will show you that dip that happens or the change that happens in Europe is not in 7,500 years ago it is about 2 to 3,000 years afterwards now you tell me what happened that the same descendants eventually gradually migrated out of India Bingo H that is these are the post Mahabharat migrations now is this just a guesswork of course here Jin is telling us but it's not a guesswork we have the evidence not only for human beings we have a evidence for a migration of cows the zeu cows going to Middle East and further and those times are 3,000 BC 2,000 BC the domestic Mouse this is something fascinating you know I'm saying for all Indians but jokingly I say people from up also because you take the gene pool of the mouse the domestic Mouse and what is the importance of domestic Mouse is directly connected with agriculture established agriculture because that's where it survives and stays right farms and in the houses nearby houses in our houses going around you know store stored grains and so on there are many varieties of domestic mice but let's say there are three four main varieties they have gone all around the world okay but if you start back to the future kind of backwards and start going back after the gene who is the father of this mouse and who is the father of this mouse and so on it ends up in India and within India it ends up in up this is a bon Hami paper 2007 there are multiple papers that domestic Indian Mouse is seen as far as South France and Israel Ram times 12,000 BC Mahabharata times 5,500 BC and afterwards Mouse did not just fly and say let me take a vacation in Switzerland it went with the migrations wherever the humans went where the human being um okay kind of a devil's advocate style question I get that even genetic studies Point towards an outward migration from India and this has been the case that even a genetic scientist brought on the show so it's not just you as a historian it's an actual scientist also who said the same thing uh my other question is that we when we talk about India okay we usually visualize the Indian map some people might visualize the akand Bharat map which is Pakistan Sri Lanka Bangladesh now when you're talking about Mahabharat this is the first time I've actually heard someone on the show visualizing a map of ancient bhat that spreads from Indonesia right up to Syria Syria now Syria is like these are the outskirts but the folks have come and participated in the Mahabharat War but even their names for example Iraq the bhagad is a Sanskrit name for Bagdad yeah for bdad actually do you know how they they say Bagdad bagda bagada you know and that's and by the way the narration of that prag jotish which is where bhata was from is very consistent how it is to the west of India in Mahabharat but also in the ramay we spoke about how ice ages are part of the Earth's history correct and in that in the last podcast we spoke about how in the ramayan when they've described the West they've described the Alps as the edge of the West correct right I don't know if there that's correct that's correct I'm assuming that again Europe North America were not habitable at that point correct because of that Earth's Tilt that we spoke about tilt and the shift of the pole and all that yeah right so it was just too cold for human beings to be there cor so perhaps this entire stretch from Syria to Indonesia while as Indians we're very proud that oh this washat and it becomes a source of Pride when you detach yourself from the emotions of being bharti or being Indian and just look at yourself as a human no different from the humans in Pakistan or Iraq or Syria Absolut because they're very different from us in many ways culturally today yes uh it's a way of saying that this ancient culture was spread across this strip because it was the only habitable that is the right way to say therefore I say once you go beyond 2000 BC they are us in the sense that there is no they out there okay you know see now the extreme left has already switched off from this podcast the extreme right is rejoicing in Joy saying thatan ultimate but that's an over emotionalization of the same human concept yeah and if they read Mahabharat then their enthusiasm May Be Tamed down a little bit further for example when sanj is descri describing the whole entire PRI so to say to dutar rashtra just before the war in some context you know to distract dutar rashtra maybe he's too worried you know but doesn't want to change the strategy he is saying there are lands for example there is a reference to harara he says it's better than bhatara and in what way the people are more relaxed people are more beautiful the ladies are beautiful more fruits fresh fresh fruits fresh air better air so and so forth when the descriptions of patal come South America the bhagat puran also will say oh their life standards is much better than ours our narrators are very objective ancient narrators are very objective so there is no point taking a false Pride yeah it's why we need to just you need to view these conversations as a student of human history rather than S not any history yeah um anyway as a human history for example when I go to I mean I have been I have been lucky with the exception of I would say New Zealand and Australia I've been to practically practically all places around the world thanks to the companies I work for and my luck you know and uh every place I go I make personal relationships yeah meaning I go to Italy right now I know 10 friends of mine who were my colleagues 20 years ago but I can still go to their house and actually have a pasta made in the house same thing in China my friends in China will take a time off if I go there because my Chinese is very bad five sentences maybe and actually travel with me and when you start interacting with them you realize no difference actually they will give life for you I mean that's the kind of relationships you build yeah um there are couple of questions I have for you one is about the younger Trias impact Theory and the effect it had on India and the second one is the stoba explosion now because you brought it up have either been mentioned in chastras ah great question there are descriptions in the shastras which a creative mind like your truly can connect with the Toba explosion but we don't know for sure I will mention one let's take one there are few uh in the W of Mahabharat text uh there is a sage marande and he is talking to pandas they are in the wwas and he's talking of an ancient history now s Maranda is described as someone who has seen many Creations that is how he described whatever that means you know the metaphorical esoteric meaning and he says oh in the previous creation it happen something like this and when he's describing one of these creation or the destruction end of some creation he is and some other time we can pull these descriptions from wura where for versus after versus it goes how there was a fire everywhere and Ash falling from the sky and so on now it's a conjectural evidence I would love to find additional evidence so that I can connect uh other than that evidence and a Toba explosion I don't have because I don't have anything to tell me that how marunde was there 70,000 years ago geologically speaking what happened in the Toba explosion it was just a massive volcanic as massive volcanic ash now that is a lake there because you know in in Sumatra Island it's called Toba lake or something and the that was one of the biggest I mean you on the Google you can see different uh volcanic uh eruptions and Toba comes out the biggest in last 100,000 years or something it totally blanketed India and not just India Beyond India like Middle East parts of Middle East even the utara Kuru utara madra uh Seas you can see the evidence under the seaf Flor for this ash layer so it was a massive event and people are estimating in different ways some people say there was this uh what what you call a dark winter or that comes afterwards for 10 years others say for Thousand Years and these are different estimates um how many people survived that's another one we don't know that number all all we know is that women died out much more than men because of the graph you just showed yes studying genetic Sciences correct because you can track back matri linear lineage Pat linear lineage right now keep in mind when you go back to 70,000 years our genetic data also gets weaker and weaker so although they can draw the graph there may be five samples I mean I don't know what was there sure yeah um you know I'm just thinking again this is just pure hypothesis uh I am not a woman from 70,000 years ago so I might be entirely wrong but I've had girlfriends in my life and I have noticed that girls tend to feel colder more easily M it's a very basic human thing good point now after the Toba explosion there's a massive volcano there's Ash in the sky it goes down to Sub-Zero temperatures the earth the earth becomes freezing cold there's also a fantastic movie called Society of the snow which I highly recommend you watch it's about Andes plane crash you know which alive the movie alive yeah same but it's a 2023 or four movie got it uh they show the same thing that there are few women with those guys in that plane who eventually one of them they've shown passes away because of the cold uh so it this is is just again hypothesis that in such cold weather maybe some of the guys not even all the guys some of the tougher guys survived yes and the woman dying because of the cold is more so when I write the book when I mention this hypothesis I will mention your name no that's a great point and you see I the way you just thought you thought off the cuff the way you thought through that's exactly how you do like you know I said hey what is this another Peak is it the pararam is it the dashar yudha but if if you notice I have not immediately made up my mind and just to make some headline I have just gone and said it is this or that I don't have evidence but I can say that with the Mahabharat because the evidence is shouting from all sides anyone who's with us in this podcast until this point is fascinated by this conversation in the same way that I am is fascinated with ancient history I can vouch for the fact that Randall Carlson has done an episode just like this with he's done multiple episodes with Jo Rogan but it's in a very similar it shows graphs he he you know has some very similar points to what you're making um it's amazing listening to Randall Carlson Jo Rogan episodes but he focuses a lot on the younger dr's impact Theory obviously because it's more centered to North America I am sure this episode ideally should reach him somehow uh but my the point I'm making is that he speaks about how uh the younger dasas was very very bad for all of human civilization uh I don't know whether it's related to the younger D or something after that but apparently there was one phase where the human population was crunched down to about 3,000 people it may have been the Toba explosion honestly uh yeah which will go back way far back right 70,000 versus his is like a 12,000 you know that that okay the point I'm making is he talks a lot about younger D impact Theory correct uh and then he uses that as a proof that hey all these floods that we read about in our epics in NOA gilgames Manu in Indian culture all these are very possible on the land that we call prvi or Earth this planet that we live on all these things are possible so do not shut yourself out to these possibilities just because they were stories you heard when you were a kid uh what do you think happened because of the younger D impact theory in India okay definitely it was a bad period okay we know from the climatological data in fact this is what we know um sarasti we discussed in the previous episode so 200,000 years beautifully the Big River of the rug Saraswati literally the river is described as so powerful so strong that it cuts the top of the Mountains mountain tops and floats them like uh lotus flowers or Cuts them like as easily somebody cuts the Lotus stem that's powerful that has started changing 50,000 years ago when yamuna separated and then it further change uh in 15,000 years ago when satl separated but in between there is a last glacial maximum so lot of water has frozen into the glaciers in the Himalayas so not enough water flow is there and we have a sufficient evidence to show about 20,000 years ago in fact I use that to explain why ruga is definitely before 21,000 years one small boss for those of you who don't know what younger D impact theory is a massive Comet hit the earth in the Gulf of Mexico caus catac mic events killed off many many humans yes and very importantly from the Indian context reduced temperatures significantly significantly as in it created a period of global cooling global cooling like a wind I mean they have some word for it like a crazy winter uh like you know lot of things would be affected like the plants and uh growing uh I mean agriculture would have been significantly affected you know so effectively like a famine you know it might have resulted in famine effectively the already cold Himalayas became way colder which didn't allow enough ice to melt for the sarasti river to flow right so therefore the younger dryers impact theory was significant for the river system and the sarasti drying up sarasti started drying up say after 50,000 yamuna is gone after 15,000 satl is gone 20,000 years ago LC lgm so that is gone but what happened now so I'm saying the younger D was a really bad time it's like a peak of the Bad season after that beginning 7,000 BC we have a paper of anindia circar 2016 we don't need to go there again evidence from Arabian Sea to Rajasthan desert to harana everywhere under the ground also the there was a intensification of monsoon beginning 7,000 BC in India as in the monsoon we see now yeah is more intense than it used to be than than it used to be because younger D affected Monsoon also M so seven so younger D was a really bad time even for India but definitely not as bad as uh North America and other places to exit this scientific conversation slightly sure I'm just trying to wonder what God was thinking you these idiot let me throw a meteor at the Earth and then change up the seasons change up Rivers change up Landscapes and everything okay let me add a philosophical point to that sure God created the universe okay we have a in the bhagat gbak Shai Vishnu and shakai Vishnu if you have har Krishna devotees they will go on and on on this and it's the creation is done but God has created it so perfect and then now he has gone sh Shai Vishnu to the extent it almost feels like automated we wonder if God exist okay that's how perfect the job job has been done but does God I mean this becomes another subject alog together does God has time or takes uh interest into NR Affairs of our individuals my answer is in the broader sense no in another sense actually it does because if you look at the Indian bti tradition the vedanta tradition you know which is like in Mari if you start understanding who you are you realize there is no difference you know there is no difference only the qual quantitative difference qualitative we are the same so when we start thinking actually there is that evolution of ourselves to the God is there in bhagat Gita up you know we go to that stage purpose of human life so in that sense God is taking interest in our individual Affairs but if you look at this sometime like stock market crashes now that's like a bad thing but the person who is rightly poised actually makes money too through the puts and calls so it's a way of looking at it effectively we are just us growing on a wet piece of Earth well if you look at it we say this is the age of human beings or something but uh the the place where I'm at Jun faculty Institute of advanced Sciences uh the main research there is on the borinium which is a bacteria or a virus you can say something like that you know bacteria very deadly bacteria but basically the age of bacteria has never left even right now our body is like a significant percentage Bia you know I think this is the reason I love ancient history that it truly teaches you the insignificance of your own existence as a modernday human who uses Apple Vision Pro and we think Apple Vision Pro wow that's a big step in the technological creations of humanity but you don't even know what you don't know you know who this is something Hancock and Jo Rogan both say that just because something is older than you doesn't mean it wasn't more advanced that is very true you don't know how many cataclysmic events have happened which have just destroyed things before you which then can be attributed to all these Sanjay having a TV in Mahabharat or U you know Atlantis also having televisions and obviously everyone's favorite topic vimanas yeah which is somehow made it to the West Jo Rogan keeps talking about vimanas we will talk about vimanas too sometime okay I think they found viman shastra right that's a bja Raja like you know from the 12th century uh it will be another dition long one but uh the brief one on the pushpak viman uh the triangulation structure that I mention explanation viman for those people who don't know are the ancient aeroplanes which apparently existed in the time of the ramayan also like pushak for example and Mahabharata Mahabharata upar richer who is uh slightly before pandavas uh had a aeroplane and somebody who attacked Krishna krishna's dwarka I'm not remembering his recalling his name right now but his plane viman was called saba and if you look at the descriptions there is no description of a technology none of that and so people Skeptics say so hey why should I believe no if you don't want to believe don't believe no we believe a lot of things that we don't truly understand you know if you ask the Skeptics or the leftist or whoever rtist whoever to call do you believe in Einstein's relativity Theory or Newton's gravity Theory they of course and if I said now explain it to me please then they just shut up well he was a white guy so it was a theory from Europe maybe that's a right but quick note on the pushpak viman and this is a somewhat bigger subject but the triangulation metrics that I explain explanation prediction testing in the context of a theory in the context of background knowledge can be used to fill all the five places using the pman descriptions from ramayana for example we don't have a technology and actually I had a recent debate on Facebook or something you know with some of my good friends but the reality is there are enough descriptions in about pushpak Wiman in waliki ramayana which many people don't know and they match with what we know about the vimanas today as in modern day aeroplanes modern day aeroplanes for example when they took off they made big noise if it's a magical plane imaginary plane it may not have to have make a noise I mean how did waliki knew that it makes a noise you know so to say then air currents made them unstable that is what wmik Raman says something else just look at the confidence of vibish when after Ram kills raan and vishan says please come to my city and enjoy the beauty of the city says I cannot enter the city Ram says I cannot enter the city I have to go back to aodha bat is waiting for me and this is at happening the discussion is happening at the equ and vibish very confidently says you need not worry we have a pushpak womman within a day's time less than a day's time it will take you to aodha now just the descriptions just like we find in the modern novel today but do they not match with what we know about the Aeroplane technology today so based on that I mean we can actually make a case for it I think we had Dr prabakar on the show who's an archaeologist uh he spoke very briefly about the viman shastra he said that he's gone through it but the thing is the materials that they've described in it are uh described using words that we don't know the meaning of corre so it could have just been another word for some kind of a metallic compound but we don't know what that metallic compound uh is correct so yeah I mean my my style is to go where the evidence takes you but not go too much Beyond beond the evidence sure you know so I say this is what we know we don't know the engine we don't know this uh but uh yeah so no I mean perhaps uh 20 years later we'll be talking to a much older version of you uh breaking down the viman shastra that's been broken down in 2044 rather than 2024 it is possible because see if you would have met me in 1995 and ask about arundhati vist I had nothing to say I had nothing to show for next 15 years until 2009 yeah yeah uh anyway let's come back to the ramayan because we've spoken a lot about the Mahabharat in today's episode and I know that there's something about the ramayan that you wanted to mention told me that before we entered the studio right what's up okay because you know uh We call pindy marati we say pindy to brahmi you know like whatever you see microscopic you see the microscopic you know the same structures repeat uh similarly Galileo showed when he pointed his binoculars and telesc sces to the sky he said Celestial is equal to terrestrial because until Galileo at least in the Western Europe everyone was thinking that out up there is everything perfect here it is imperfect he said no moon also has bumps like Earth and so on so Celestial is equal to terrestrial I have used the celestial evidence from ramayan Mahabharat to show when did they happen now people say but please show me something on the ground like the archaeologist you know well I am archaeologist I said well actually there's a lot on the the ground how much evidence how much you have dug and how much you have found out and how much you have dated if you have done it I can connect the dots and this is one of those connecting the dots so there is a description when Hanuman goes into Lanka and he's roaming around like comes to near raan's Palace and pushpak viman he sees that pushpak Wiman is guarded by the soldiers like raan's soldiers but also by elephants with two three and four tusks now all of us have done elephants with two tusks or no Tusk because they're removed a three Tusk I have seen one and that was a genetic abnormality but four Tusk we have not seen it so what are they talking so even that was used as a point by those people who don't believe in the historicity of Ramana to ridicul it like look anything is written here what is interesting is if you go back into the area of a paleontology which is to say again the mega FAA you know like that uh like mammoths we have heard about the mammoths they also became extinct 11,000 BC but there are these elephant like creatures they go with a different names Stockon and goo the in fact I'm going to ask you in a minute to type Goo now look at the timing there okay so there is it says these goo the were there from 2.6 million to 11,700 years if you look at some other they say oh these like creatures were there 9 million years ago and I would say the right side of our folks if you want to use the side you know they will say four Tusk elephants existed 9 million years ago that's what I know now there they accept science by the way therefore Raman happened 9 million years ago how stupid is that okay like person has given away its via buddhi okay because just because four Tusk elephants existed sometime doesn't mean ramayan immediately happened by the way this same blunder has been done done by many archaeologists when they decide try to decide the timing of ramayan timing to try to decide the timing of Mahabharat like suddenly they find a chariot in 2000 BC they say Mahabharat happened 2000 BC how stupid is that Chariot exist even now why do we not say Mahabharat happened now you know so now we already know from an independent Source by independent I mean waliki ramayan and tremendous evidence on all fronts that Raman happened 12 ,29 BC now look at the range of it these creatures did exist until 11,700 years ago 9,700 BC that is the younger D the mass FAA Extinction mega perhaps the drowning of Lanka yeah but yeah but these goo were not only in the Lanka by the way they were all around the world actually if you look at the map for it you'll see everywhere they were found these all Stockton and all these folks but the point is they became extinct about 9,000 about 10,000 BC Bingo ramman happened in 12,000 BC there is no conflict for a four Tusk Like Elephant creatures like existing during the ram times it it is a corroborative evidence since this podcast began 5 years ago I've asked these questions to hordes and hordes of guests and today is that one day where one of my guests has answered these questions in detail I think your guest number 65 or 620 okay and it took me 620 guests to answer the basic question of well and what you have learned is never give up keep on asking the question you know the day will come God damn this was too much fun sir I have so much respect for the Deep dive that you've gone through over the last 30 years of your life almost yeah it's crazy uh need more Indians like you uh to actually explore Indian culture and Indian history history in this way that's all I'll say there's a lot of people whove consumed both these episodes and are saluting you in their hearts like at this point so I salute you as well you're a warrior of history according to me uh I know there'll be lots of people who will be upset that I claim that you are the warrior of history and not a history grad being the warrior of history but that's how the modern world works it's based on hard work research and evidence and lateral thinking alternative thinking that's the only way you can actually Deep dive into a culture like ours that's supposedly lacks of years old so NES thank you sir andar I hope to have you again on DRS yes look forward to it thank you thank you that was the episode with n o ladies and gentlemen as usual please drop your feedback in the comment section down below tell me what else you like for us to cover with n sir the next time around and please send in your guest recommendations if you have any we're always on the lookout for people who are helping unearth bhara history once again TRS and the whole team will be back very very soon thank you for listening in this is the best job in the world he [Music]