Transcript for:
Exploration of Earth's Catastrophic History

[Music] randall carlson how are you sir i'm doing well joe it's great to see you it really is it's even greater to see you i was so looking forward to this podcast i was i i'm just i'm so excited about this subject so whenever you're in town well you know joe i drove a thousand miles to get here that's how much i'm that's a long drive how long did that take uh we did two days so it's a fourteen and a half hour drive but we got slowed down because of the weather yeah i was worried about that yeah we've had some ice storms out here for people that don't know yeah right we have so it was nasty for a while but and you're going to be out here you're doing some exploring you're doing some cave exploring as well well we were going to go to see hall's cave which is a um pull that microphone up to you hulk's cage there you go how's this perfect good um yeah halt's cave is near here and this was a site that has uh extinct megafauna remains in it and it also has some clovis remain clovis tools and it has the younger driest black matte stuff in it so basically black matte stuff meaning the whatever the impact was what was settled so right so when you had the impact or i think impacts plural you had this dusting of stuff and a lot of fires so the fires produce soot charcoal so at that layer you have this black matte layer and below it you have megafauna and above it they're mostly gone below it you have the clovis culture above it they're mostly gone um so hall's cave was a repository and um we were going to go in it the it's belongs to an elderly couple that's on private property but then when the cove had hit they got worried about letting people in there so it's been postponed thomas stafford was the lead archaeologist on the job on the on the project and he had agreed to set it up for us but then they got like i said the elderly couple that owns the cave they got cold feet so so is this because of the recent strains of kovid is this like no this would have been so two years ago we were gonna go let's see well two years was it last summer we were planning to go a year a year ago last summer so it's been on hold and i suspect that at some point we'll we'll get to do it but while i'm out here we are going to check out a few things canyon lake gorge which is down towards san antonio is a site that in 2002 there was a heavy heavy rain and canyon lake is a reservoir it overflowed and it cut this canyon and reproduced all these features like um uh recessional cataracts and plunge pools and all these kind of things that geologists assumed were kind of slow to to form um but are very similar to some of the things that are on a much grander scale that we'll look at here today um but what it is is it's kind of almost forced to revision in thinking because basically they're seeing this duplication of these forms although on a smaller scale but formed in two days and not thousands of years so for people that are not familiar with your work i think we should probably give them a real quick refresher when you're referring to the younger driest you're referring to the younger dryas impact theory and this impact theory you believe probably ended the ice age caused the extinction of many mammals and many species of life all over the earth all over the earth and reset civilization pretty much yeah in a nutshell that's going to be and that is somewhere around 11 000 12 000 years okay the dating of it there's the younger dryas itself is about a 1300 year interval so to put in this in perspective go back 16 to 20 000 years ago we're in the middle of the late glacial maximum when more than double the amount of glacial ice on the planet now we had north america half of north america's cub buried under an ice sheet bigger than the one that now covers the south pole so all of canada up to the arctic circle northern united states you know new york detroit philadelphia twin cities seattle all of that area was completely buried under this massive ice sheet around fifteen thousand years ago fourteen five to fifteen thousand years ago the climate began to warm and this is probably because the changing geometries between the earth and the sun has this it's called the milankovitch cycles and it basically is just the the geometric relation between the earth and the sun the orbit the tilt of the earth's axis and so on brings about gradual warming and gradual cooling so we what what has been documented now is that the gradual warming began between 14 500 and 15 000 years ago and so the great ice sheets began to shrink back and they lost maybe 10 to 15 percent of their maximum mass and this is when that ice-free corridor opened up um between the two we had two big ice sheets that were covering north america lauren tied centered on hudson bay courtier and centered over the canadian rockies around 16 to 18 000 years ago they coalesced they grew together then with that warming they separated and that's you probably heard the term the ice free corridor yeah the old ideas that north america was exclusively populated by the clovis people coming across the bering land bridge which was exposed because of lowered sea levels migrating down through alaska and through that ice-free corridor down into unglaciated uh north america and then eventually all the way down to tierra del fuego within a thousand years so now you've got this gradual warming now at about twelve thousand eight hundred and fifty to twelve thousand nine hundred years ago that process is suddenly interrupted by this massive spasm of cold right that basically undoes two thousand five hundred years of warming just undoes it and now the planet is plunged back into full glacial cold and it takes like 1300 years for the planet to resume its upward arc of of warming so at the beginning of that is when the the the spike of mass extinctions took place and that's also when the covet culture in north america that had been very prolific clovis clovis what is that it's we all have coveted on the brain god i know yeah the clovis culture they disappeared maybe i heard he did say covet right it might have been cloven i don't know that's okay maybe i'm hearing it yeah well it could be or i maybe i i should take a little break here and take my afternoon nap but my after lunch nap ah you know that's part of my religion now as i take an afternoon nap every day it's good religion it's a pretty good religion it's solid yeah that's my ritual nap every day so anyways not to get off on that but so it lasts about 1300 years and about 11 600 years ago it ended now what's interesting about this about the um younger dryas period is that it's almost bookmarked with two catastrophes the cast catastrophe 11 600 years ago is still kind of undefined there's been no to my knowledge evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial impact however there was a massive pulse of melting that occurred and so they it's referred to as meltwater pulse 1b now there was a meltwater pulse 1a that is now dated at 14 600. and there's evidence now emerging that there was also a major melting event at the beginning of the younger dryas but it was so quick before the planet jumped back into full glacial coal that has kind of been overlooked so anyways what's interesting about meltwater pulse 1b that's 11 600 years ago now that is now given as the definition between the pleistocene which was two and a half two and a half million years which was differentiated from the previous plyo scene because in the pleistocene epoch what characterizes this epoch is the planet started lurching back and forth between the glacial and interglacial ages right so at the end of the pleistocene we get into the holocene holocene is now the onset of the holocene is dated 11 600 years ago and shortly within a millennia to two millennia after that is when we begin to see the the rise of what eventually led to modern civilization we see the domestication of animals we see the the major shift in in lifestyles from mostly if not all hunter gatherers now into a agricultural based lifestyle um so we see really the the rise of agriculture in those two millennia after the beginning of the holocene uh what else oh the dispersion of languages generally traces back to around roughly 10 000 years ago what else oh the rise of urban areas uh the first chatel hoyak and and jericho and other cities like that are showing up between eight and nine thousand years ago so basically all the accoutrements of civilization that eventually led to you know what we think of as modern history four thousand five hundred to five thousand years ago all sort of got launched in this post uh younger dry epoch if you will so the question is what caused these tremendous sea level rise and if i think in one of our previous interviews i actually pulled up a graph where you could see that these two great spikes of melt water rather than it being tens of thousands of years in a smooth curve it was two major spikes of melt water so in order to trigger that melting you had to have some kind of input of energy it takes energy to melt ice so one of the mysteries that actually began to be noticed in the early 70s was what is called the energy paradox now with the advent of radiocarbon dating in the 1950s what happened is you accumulated a couple of decades of radiocarbon dating after a couple of decades the the geologists and the climatologists and so on they're looking at that dead and they're going wait a second our old models of of you know glacial the the onset of a glaciation glacial period the termination of glacial period were tens of thousands of years 50 60 70 000 years radiocarbon dating is now showing it happened way way faster than that for example radiocarbon dating showed that in central area of canada where it was assumed it had been a mile a mile and a half and of ice forests were growing like 30 000 35 000 years ago well clearly there was no ice there when the forests are growing there right the other thing was the rapidity with which the whole thing came to an end rather than 15 20 25 000 years it was more like three four five thousand years so this is what introduced the concept of the energy paradox like where the hell did all the energy come from to melt that much ice and so there was a group of scientists that did held a conference in 1973 didn't resolve it held another conference in 1975 still didn't resolve it what they were looking at they go okay well what is the greatest concentration of available thermal energy on the planet today to melt ice so they said well it looks like it's equatorial regions over equatorial oceans okay so if we apply that much thermal energy to these ice sheets how long would it take to melt 20 to 25 000 years to completely melt away so that was the energy paradox and it really has not been resolved to this day and see the assumption was that the energy would have applied in a uniform manner from the beginning of the the start of the deglaciation to the end of the deglaciation but it didn't happen that way it happened in pulses so in other words rather even though you have a tremendously uh enlarged amount of energy to melt this ice basically it didn't happen smoothly it was concentrated into several episodes which means then that you have even more thermal energy to try to explain so it kind of got left there and of course then i encountered that i mean i guess you know going way back in the late 70s early 80s when i first got obsessed with the catastrophic history of this planet and geology and all of that that's when i read these papers and um i kind of thought well what's the possibility it's either it's got to be impacts or it's got to be the sun what else could it be you know there's no intrinsic source of that much heat to melt the ice that quick so i was very gratified when in 2007 the paper came out proposing that there had been an impact at the younger driest triggering the younger dryas and the you know we talked about that with graham on here and that's actually what inspired graham to come back to his original idea that he had proposed in fingerprints of the gods back in 95 or 96 was the two things that the discovery of gobekli tepe which you know is back 11 500 years old right and um the evidence that there had been this cometary impact so in his uh fingerprints of the gods he was still thinking he was he was had had documented tremendous amount of evidence for catastrophe but what he didn't really wasn't thinking he was thinking more in terms of the the scenario or the models of charles hapgood who was thinking in terms of pole shift well that idea kind of fell by the wayside because it wasn't making sense from the geophysical standpoint and a lot of reasons but then when 2007 came along and this paper came out graham was pretty much electrified when he saw that and said well there's the catastrophe it was an impact and why didn't i think of that he probably did but so that's what caused him to circle back when did they first start discovering uh nuclear glass the uh tritonite is that how you say it trinidad trinity when did they first started uh well the first discovery of that you know it's it's it comes from uh trinity new mexico so between summer of 194 july of 1945. what i mean in core samples when they were examining when would that have been um because that's one of the pieces of evidence that they point to correct yes so i think maybe you know the tunguska event of 1908 i think maybe in 60s or 70s they may have found glass associated with that certainly by the 50s and 60s they were finding glass associated with impact craters and when they do core samples they do find an associated supply of this stuff yeah yes yes there's a variety of proxies that will indicate um impacts the melt glass is one of them right and so that's trinity yes um you'll have microspherules which form when you have a hypervelocity impact you know you've got to think you're you know an object coming in closing velocity at 10 to 20 times the muzzle velocity of a high-powered rifle it's coming and it slams into the earth it has a whole suite of consequences one of which a lot of the material that's directly in the epicenter gets vaporized that vapor goes up into the stratosphere it begins to circulate it as it cools it drops back to earth and it will form both microspherules and microtech types and microtectites are small little aerodynamically shaped forms that you they're called microtectites because you really only see them under a microscope and likewise with the microspherules then you have nanodiamonds nanodiamonds are only produced under extraordinary regimes of heat and pressure so you've got microspherules you've got the trinite or in the melt glass you've got the microspherules you've got iridium other platinum group metals now associated with the younger dryas they've found iridium spikes osmium spikes and platinum spikes which are all part of the platinum group metals all of which are pretty much abundant in cosmic things like asteroids right so you had the finding of that you know i think in the greenland ice cores uh platinum showed up in iridium uh see what else charcoal if there's if uh soot if there's um if there's uh fires so you know soot has been found in conjunction with that black matte layer that's one of the reasons it's black is because of the amount of charcoal and soot in it meaning there was some sort of massive fires yes that were associated with the impact yes yes that's right so you know there the critics came out savaged it you know the first group i think was 17 scientists that signed off on that paper 2007. actually the and and they formed a group called the comet research team organized by george howard who runs the uh cosmic tusk website he he'd be a great guest by the way he's really he knows more about the younger dryas than i do he's he's and he he has a good comprehension of it and uh so he does the cosmic test website and he helped to organize this comet research team now the comet research team has grown to over 50 members since and i have been out in the uh field with a couple of times with with some members of the group chris moore for example who um originally was one of the skeptics so we were out we can circle back to this too the carolina bays which are these unique elliptical features on the southeastern coastal plain of the united states so we were out in the field with me and and him george howard graham hancock was with us on that one and malcolm lecompte i don't if you remember malcolm he was the scientist that graham brought in on our side during the the great debate right during the phone call right during the phone call that was malcolm lecompte he was there um so chris moore you know i had a chance to uh have extensive conversations with him and he basically said well yeah i originally came on as a skeptic i was going to debunk this and then i began seeing the evidence and now i'm a believer so well it's it's tie it ties neatly together right it really does it seems like that it's the thing that makes the most sense when you look at all the physical evidence when you look at how quickly things changed i did not know that that the amount of melting would have taken that long though that that's pretty extraordinary well you see you got to bear in mind too that um what will happen in under normal circumstances is you will have a melting season summer right fall comes things get cold again melting stops and then you have more ice accumulation because it's now snowing during the winter so really if you say 20 000 years or 15 000 years to melt you've got to actually cut that in half or less because you're only going to have really especially in the northern uh latitudes you're going to only have probably three or four months out of each year where actually the ice diminishes in mass so that's one reason why it'll stretch it's not like a continuous process um but yeah i think i've got uh let's see if i've got it right here i'll pull this up but yeah so that was the thing when i discovered that in the late 70s is when i started thinking okay so something unusual happened that we that we don't really have an explanation for didn't you come up with the idea why you're on acid well what a great well i would say that was a factor yes okay nothing wrong with great ideas on acid ladies and gentlemen kerry mullis didn't he come up with uh partially the idea for the pcr test i think that's right i i think that i couldn't see your pcr test or some great discovery uh-huh so this is uh yeah this was uh this was the energy paradox research here this was one of the guys who was the john t andrews you can see 1973. the wisconsin lauren tied ice sheet the laurentide was the big one right dispersal centers and this is the key problems of rates of retreat so this is when they begin to say hey there's a problem here guys you know so uh let's see here uh and this was one of the bizarre things see if you go the average marginal recession that's the ice shrinking back between twelve thousand and seven thousand years before present bp is before present is that a new phrase before present uh it's i've seen it in the literature going back 20 or 30 years geologists use that whereas historians and archaeologists tend to use bc right right but if you're talking about something that happened 50 or 500 000 years ago saying bc doesn't make sense it seems silly you have to do extra math right right so this is the first thing they noticed that the rate of recession you would assume that it's going to be faster at the southern margin right and much slower because the the northern margin is up by the arctic circle right what they saw that very little between the north northwest and southern margins so that was the first mystery um so then the second thing was what the primary concern is the energy balance at the margin of the ice sheet required to promote the rapid late wisconsin retreat uh the growth and development of the laurentide ice sheet complex is still an enigma that was in 73 it's still an enigma in 2002. um which is why i find it so interesting is because there are mysteries out there and i love a good mystery unexplained it's the growth of the ice cap and it's gathering grounds of baffin island so they're saying we don't even know how it started when you said 2002 did you mean 2022 what do you mean 2002. i meant 2022. okay okay thank you joe for keeping me on track listen you have so much information in your head some of it's going to spill out the sides uh yeah so it does spill out the side uh yeah so here was the question the average annual rate of marginal retreat of the lower tied ice sheet calculated from the reduction area was 260 meters per year which is 853 feet so that means over the whole period of disappearance of the ice it's on average 853 feet every year the ice is receding right and they this high figure immediately raises the question of what energy sources are available to cause such a rapid retreat a significant aspect of the laurentide glacial history is the high energy inputs required which you know that was what came up in the 1970s they still haven't yeah the high energy inputs uh let's see so this is kind of showing here like imagine that this is the marginal profile of the ice sheet and then as it recedes it's also wasting vertically as well because it's retreating but it's also shrinking this way so uh when it comes down to rates of ice retreat in meters per year for the northwest southwest south and northeast sectors of the laurentide ice sheet and what they discovered was the rate of retreat up on the northern section was just as fast as southern so like what the hell is going on here it's happening simultaneously it's happening simultaneously yeah uh is there um a competing theory i've never seen it you've never seen any competing theory on the rapid recession of the i have not other than i've seen several attempts to try to explain it through gradualistic processes but i think that it's been one of those things that has it's so bizarre that almost like let's just stay away from that for the time being it's interesting that there's resistance to it because we know that there are asteroidal impacts and comet impacts we know all that stuff's real we know yeah we're in the middle of space and it happens all the time we can just look at the moon with its lack of atmosphere and we know there's craters all over it so we know things get hit constantly and we're dealing with this immense period of time it just seems logical it seems logical yeah and you know fred hoyle and chandra wik ramasingha theorized way back i think in the 70s that that there was an extraterrestrial cause to ice ages that the planet might get dusted with with extraterrestrial fine extra including uh nano diamonds that are so small um and very reflective of heat that that may be um was not accepted back in the 70s just because it's uh pretty much outside see they were still looking for what the milankovitch this what i was mentioning earlier the changing geometry of the earth to the sun the problem with that though is the rates you know those are slow long very gradualistic what we're seeing now is stuff is like happening like that how quick are we talking about when you're talking about this recession of the ice caps from the time where there's a mile-high sheet of ice to what we see five thousand years five thousand but within there see you can save five thousand years and you might think of a uniform process it's it's diminishing in mass uniformly each year but that's now it happened because even during the younger driest now the evidence suggests that that more or less gradualistic shrinking was interrupted and then you had a regrowth of the ice sheet so the the process was interrupted see so what that leads is again we don't really have gradualistic explanations for it that's why i think we have to go to some a more catastrophic scenario and this catastrophic scenario we're not talking about one individual event or talk about possibly multiple impacts that's what i would definitely lean towards right this is over a course of how many years well i think that if we look at the work of and i've mentioned this on your show before the work of in fact um in one of our conversations we had it was um william napier who's a a british astronomer commented uh that we had he was pleased that we had talked about it and i mentioned that victor klube and william napier and several of these others that were sort of uh called them neo-catastrophes if you will and they really began proposing in the late 70s and early 80s things like i say you know impacts may be responsible for a lot of things they may be responsible for uh increased amounts of volcanic volcanic eruptions because you know hypervelocity impact can be very damaging you know the analogy that i like to use if you have like a 38 caliber bullet right and i was to throw that at you even as hard as i could and it hit you might sting a little bit it's not going to do any damage at all but that same 38 caliber accelerated to you know 2 500 feet per second a lot of damage now you take a half mile space rock accelerate it by a factor of 10 beyond that and slam it into the earth yeah it's going to have consequences that could take you know thousands of years actually to to play out is there an estimate of how many impacts there were not yet not yet i think there was probably in the range of about 10 impacts so 10 over the course of a few thousand years yes although they were probably concentrated i think that you had a concentrated series of impacts right around the beginning of the younger driest because that's where the proxies are found we still don't have an explanation for uh the end of the younger dryas something interesting though it's one of these coincidences that i should bring up we talked a little bit at one point maybe the first first meeting we had we talked about plato and the story of atlantis and a lot of i noticed some of the negative comments were like oh i heard a mention atlanta so i just immediately turned it off because that's bs you know well whether atlantis really existed or not and that's a whole other interesting question and as a matter of fact i'm i just a few weeks ago did a part one of a six part series a live stream where i'm like line by line dissecting what plato actually said going through four or five different translations going back to some of the original greek language that he used but the thing that really initially i wasn't that interested in the atlantis thing until i realized that he's if you go into his dialogue tomas just before he um before he begins the story of atlantis he prefaces it with uh the the the by referencing the myth of satan and fate and being the son of helios who tried to drive his father's chariot in the path of the sun and completely failed and the chariot deviated off the path of the sun and it declined or deviated down to the earth and it set the world on fire now in the story of atlantis solon is hearing this story from these elderly egyptian priests who say that they have preserved that story in their sacred registers for 9 000 years is that possible i don't know maybe maybe not but this is what this is what was related that they that they was preserved in their sacred registers and in their temples for 9 000 years and this was prior to solon's 10-year sojourn in egypt right solan sojourn in egypt happens at 600 uh 400 600 bc let me think of that let me think of this yes so basically if you add that to the 9000 go back from now to 600 bc that's 2600 years yeah add that to 9000 what do you get eleven thousand six hundred you get around the time of the younger driest impact the end of the younger driest meltwater pulse 1b so you have a rapid rise what john shaw canadian geologist the late john shaw uh called a cre which is catastrophic rise event so there was a catastrophic rise event at thousand six hundred years ago plato gives that date based on the chronology from solon down through drapidis through credence the elder to criticise the younger then finally to socrates and plato coincidence perhaps that's what the skeptic would say it's just a coincidence i'm not quite so ready to dismiss things like that as coincidence because it's pretty amazing that he puts the demise of atlantis that it subsides beneath the ocean as a result of an earthquake and a rapid rise of sea level and there's melt water pulse 1b right there who knows but what's to me even makes it more interesting is because he prefaces the whole story with this faten myth and then he says let's see i bet you i have it right here let's see um there we go let's see if we can open this up and you can see exactly what plato says and let's see here if we zoom down to have you seen that geological formation in i believe it's africa yes yeah yes what are your thoughts on that that it's natural you think it's natural i think it's natural i think it's very interesting i i first discovered that maybe 20 years ago because it was when it was first discovered because of nasa photography they were looking at and thinking this might be a multi-ringed impact structure so i thought oh add this to the ever-growing list of impact structures however subsequent uh subsequent research showed that it was pretty much natural and i think yeah here we go right here so this is um since you brought it up and asked about it you can see here there's a uh there's a magma body but beneath the structure it's it's volcanic and uh let's see uh yeah an external basaltic ring dike is displaced by a north northeast south southwest fault system in the northeastern part of the structure and is cross cut by carbonate dikes so you can see there's this whole magma chamber beneath the thing i see and how they how do they find that oh geophysical surveys and so what that would indicate was that this is probably the remnants of a volcanic eruption like some sort of a caldera like the same way that we have yellowstone when they found that from it was probably pressure from below causing it up doming right now you've got multiple layers like this now you picture you've got a circular up doming now you truncate that if you can picture that you've got these multiple stratigraphic layers right it forces it into a circular sort of a dome-shaped uplift and then you truncate it you slice the top of that off what you're going to have is multiple rings that are now exposed so that's so it makes sense if it's in that area where this volcanic activity takes place yeah that this is a natural uh possibility yeah now i know that jimmy is quick yeah and uh i don't know jimmy personally i i like the guy without knowing him you interviewed him right very nice guy yeah that's what i thought yeah i'd like to get him out in the field with me and show him some stuff firsthand i think he i bet he would love that i think he's a giant fan of your work i like to hear that well i'm a fan of his work but i don't happen to agree on this one well i mean i don't even know if he agrees i think he's just speculating yeah he's not dogmatic like he doesn't have like a rigid perspective on this yeah here you can see there's the recatcher what is interesting though is look at this you've got the uh this structure up here the terminator 10 number i forget how you're playing that i knew how to pronounce it but anyways that's a that's an impact creator there there's one here we can actually if we go back the the tenure crater in mauritania that's impact and the tem mimic chat i that's exactly so what's interesting though check this out there's one there's two and here's the recap structure they fall in a perfect alignment um now what's the explanation there i don't know could just be coincidence right could be coincidence yeah one of the things that he said about the re-cut structure was that around it the white appears to be salt which could be and i mean see the rim rock of this is late cretaceous about 90 million years old so at that point it was below the ocean right so it's been uplifted i think this thing is about 14 or 1500 feet above sea level if memory serves me correct so it's been eroded you see this whole thing here is like an erosion you had a massive amount of water that came down over this and most likely is what exposed this thing to the surface it was probably buried um let's see here um oh so right there is you know from plato that's the ringed city of atlantis the scale the concentric rings the concentric ring so this is the actual scale superimposed onto the recatch stuff so it's much smaller much smaller scale but plato's scale was based on what the stade it was based on the stade which is roughly 607 feet it's where we get the word stadium from oh wow yeah because that's that was the length of a stadium in ancient greece so when you look at plato's version of the sorry take you on this detour but i was just curious when you look at plato's version of atlantis is there an area of the world that seems likely yeah yeah yeah you better watch my six-hour presentation okay i will yeah no but i i look it's detailed that's why even in six hours you know i can't really spell it i in my podcast i did the first nine episodes two hours each were devoted to i thought well let's kick it off with atlantis 18 hours of atlantis 18 hours of it the last episode nine was devoted to the recat structure wow so i had eight eight eight hours so 16 hours but we had some chatter and things like that in there so maybe more like 12 or 14 hours so um you know who johanna james is no she is a uh british actress who started doing this pot she's really cool lady um she's very interested in all this kind of stuff very smart extraordinarily beautiful and she went on and and did a uh she does these like 20-minute 30-minute little vignettes of things that she's really interested in having to do a lot with you know ancient cultures all the kind of things that you know graham hancock is you know she reads graham hancock she became a fan of mine and she devoted one of her little 20 or 30 minute segments to she said i watched all 10 hours or 12 hours of randall carlson's programs on atlantis and so she did this like 30 minute little synopsis of it really did a great job so we reached out to her i invited her on she came on we did a live stream a couple of weeks ago with her as a guest and um just really fun lady she's uh also does comedy right yeah and she's very intelligent very gorgeous um what can i say you know and smart and interested in all this kind of stuff so you know there we go anyways um so she was very interested in the whole atlantis thing and so because of that there was a lot of feedback and people wanting to know more and so i thought okay now the the 10 or 12 hours i did what i'm going to do is i'm going to try to condense that down so a couple of weeks ago we did the first three hour live stream where i basically started breaking down plato's account line by line what did he actually say let's look at the geology let's look at the geography the oceanography the astronomy and see if it lines up if it matches up and so i think there's one place that pretty much is not all the details but when you look at all of the areas around the planet that have been proposed for atlantis i think there's one place that fits the majority of his details and that's the sunken azores plateau and i say sunken because we know it's sunken and it's right along the mid-atlantic ridge in fact since we're on this subject and i wasn't even thinking we'd get on this subject there's the azores plateau right there it it straddles a triple plate junction which you have the european plate the african plate and the north american plate here it's up near nova nova scotia yeah it's far north it is but notice over here it's really almost at the same latitude as spain see and i would say that if there's any place on the planet that is most consistent with plato's account that's it right there why is that without doing an 18-hour presentation oh come on joe can't we have pizza brought in we can nah that's why in a nutshell god where do i even begin so uh i was afraid you were gonna ask that but we can look very quickly i guess like give you the the five-minute version um which is that uh there is evidence that there was a massive subsidence along the mid-atlantic ridge we actually talked about this a little bit and i think in our very first uh discussion we had which was what seven eight years ago at least yeah yeah yeah because and we so we talked about this a little bit geophysics shows that there's horizontal movement lateral movement of the earth's crust because of continental drift but there's also vertical movement and that is the result of isostatic compensation that's called isostasy is the vertical movement of the earth's crust i can show you like i should have a slide right here that will help to really illustrate what it is uh let me back up to uh let's see should be right in here ah here we go okay so now this is the shore of hudson bay now this is where the ice sheet was the thickest right now what are you seeing there hudson bay is up here these are shorelines because when the ice was removed the land started rising back so here's sea level right land is rising back and the land is rising because of a lack of weight of the ice yes right so you're sitting on a soft cushiony chair right now right are you yep okay so your ass is causing isostatic depression of that cushion on your chair right and if you sit up you'll have isostatic compensation right so that's what that is along many many many lines yes those are all shorelines here's another view of it here's another view wow that's the land rebounding a couple of thousand feet after the ice was removed now the ice was removed and all of those trillions of tons of weight where did it go in the atlantic ocean now you look the thinnest crust on the earth is the mid-atlantic ridge and if you look at it you'll see that there are transform faults which should show up right here the transform faults are these vertical fault lines that are when you would say orthogonal or right angles to the ridge itself here you can see very clearly the the the triple plate junction and how the azores plateau okay well since the 1940s the first expedition expedition in 1948 there was a uh when they started doing uh dredge samples from the uh from the floor of the atlantic ocean which coincidentally the name of the ship was the atlantis they dredged chlor samples they pull up the core samples from two miles down a mile to two miles down and they look at those core samples and what you had was for example shallow water creatures living they weren't living they were now you know they had been drowned you had creatures like uh that had that typically lived under a hundred feet of sea water and now they're a mile mile and a half below and they're on the flanks of this of this place right here so these are fossils that they're finding yes so and they're finding fossils that ordinarily you would find in some place that was very shallow very shallow very shallow yes or relatively shallow 100 feet 100 feet yes um so this is this is the basic idea here this goes back to the 60s as it says right here the possible tectonic implications of glacious static now eustatic is the rise and fall of sea level correlated with the increase and decrease of of glacial ice so if the ice is increasing sea level is falling and we call that eustatic sea level fall if the ice is shrinking melting sea levels rising so that's a eustach rise so that's the the main the meaning of that when you see glaciostatic that means the rise and fall of the sea level as a result of glacier growth or melting okay and it says here sea level fluctuations have received only minor attention in connection with such problems as ocean floor spreading the purpose of this report is to point out that late pleistocene sea level data suggests that the ocean basins have responded isostatically and by a significant amount particularly concentrated along the mid-atlantic ridge so um and the so i mean this i i've got so much here i'm just gonna grab a couple of these things here yeah so they they dug up these cobbles which are uh the cobbles are um so a cobble is basically a stone or anything that's lithified that's roughly between um a pebble a pebble and a boulder a boulder when you get i think to 11 inches about about the size of a volleyball down in the realm of boulders a kabul is in between pebbles and boulders you know like you've heard of cobblestone streets you know the other fist-sized rocks basically so so they say here the atlantis cruiser and great meteor sea mounts rise from a broad ridge or plateau which extends from the mid-atlantic ridge blah blah blah let's see um so about a ton of flat pteropod limestone cobbles was dredged from the summit area of one of these sunken what they're calling the sea mounts and the sea mount is like a flat top mountain right like the top of the mountain has been sheared off okay so they pulled up these limestones right these limestone cobbles they dated them one of the cobbles gave an apparent radiocarbon age of 12 000 years plus or minus 900 years the state of lithification how how much it is turned into rock of the limestone suggests that it may have been lithified under sub-aerial conditions in other words in the atmosphere that's what that means it may have been lithified under sub-aerial conditions and the sea mount may have been an island within the past 12 000 years wow so i mean we could go through again hours of this kind of research and why it's been pushed off to the side is anybody's guess but it just doesn't fit the paradigm but yeah basically now this doesn't prove that there was any civilization there but we can make a very strong case that a large section of the azores plateau was above sea level during the late glacial maximum does it coincide with plato's account of trade and of travel and of the way well we have no way of knowing see now there we have to make a leap of faith which is this if and if we look right here you'll see uh you can see it very clearly and you can see the straits of gibraltar here which was anciently known as the pillars of heracles and you come here to a group of islands and then you get to the azores plateau and here these down here are those sea mounts those truncated sea mounts so really all you have to do here's the leap of faith you have to make you have to go now we don't i don't get into anything like you know whatever flying spaceships or crystal ray guns or anything like that no i just go by what plato says what he's describing is a maritime culture that had navigational abilities something along the lines of the minoan or the phoenician culture maybe by an order of magnitude right so now all we have to do really is assume this which to me is not so pseudo-scientific that we couldn't even consider it which is that somebody some group in the ice age had enough navigational skills to sail from europe to islands right here and what would be the reason why they would go there like what was so exceptional supposedly about atlantis well i'll show you one thing hub of trade it was supposed to be a very advanced civ city right well advanced in the standpoint that yes it was engaged in in trade it was it was had uh i was um you know had a a broad net of of cultural connections around the world but if you look at this this is if you go right here let's see the position of the gulf stream during quaternary glaciations um in the present-day north atlantic ocean the boundary between the sub tropical and subpolar gyres runs southeast south southwest to northeast from hatteras to the northern sea so we'll get down here right see in contrast during the last glacial maximum approximately 18 000 years ago the gyre boundary and associated currents were more zonal and located further to the south so here's a map showing basically what you would have had so this is the gulf stream so it's bringing up the warm equatorial waters and wrapping it right around the azores so if you were going to try to try to you know theorize or hypothesize an ideal climate during the ice age there it is right there um you see that gulf stream you know it's the gulf stream now this is why you have your warmth basically in the uk right and is there any physical evidence other than the the cobblestones or anything yeah plant remains plant remedies dredged up plant remains yes oh yeah plant remains that would have been growing you know in a climate on you know not consistent with with the ic what about anything that would indicate human settlement no not yet although i've heard some things i haven't seen confirmation i think it's going to take submersible yeah you know we're just at the very beginnings of of submarine archaeology and how deep is this area again well you see right now it it is um the azores are actually islands that are above sea level um and the major part of the plateau is a mile to mile and a half under water so that's where all the action would be most likely yes yes and is there any sort of plan to do an excavation or some sort of an expedition where they go underwater and look at some of that stuff we'll try to find some physics not yet but i was thinking joe that know you you and i let's see what okay you ready to take a ride do you know james cameron maybe we could borrow a submarine well i don't want to say this but i've actually had somebody contact me who's two steps removed i won't get into that because i don't like to count chickens you know what i mean i get it yeah james cameron if you're out there i'm with you brother yeah yeah when we're not gonna find it we're not recording that guy's a while ben i know literally i mean he's first of all he's one of the most successful movie producers in the history of the human race right yeah but yet he's so crazy he gets in a submarine and goes to the bottom of the [ __ ] ocean right see and here's the thing you know you gotta i mean a lot of what i'm documenting here is how catastrophic some of these events were yeah i mean you would have had massive tsunamis that would have affected everything you know and like plato says atlantis subsided beneath the waves because of a great earthquake and we can actually show now that um that there has evidence of massive traumatic seismic events along the middle atlantic ridge coincident with the rapid rise of sea level so a lot of the pieces fit together it doesn't prove anything but to me it makes the case that it might be worth it to go down and have a look closer look all they would need is some pottery right all they would need is something my guess is that whether it's to be taken literally or not plato's description of the infrastructure i would think that the infrastructure the multi-ringed if that was real and not just metaphorical um that that's kind of what you would look for some of it yeah in other words i mean we do know that these ancient peoples you know just from historical times where you know this is what graham documents from all over the world these people had extraordinary engineering skill yeah the ability to you know organize on a huge scale you know quarry 50 100 200 ton and larger stones move them around with impunity um all over the world and that to me has always struck me as a builder i've had a little bit of experience moving beams and things that weigh half a ton to a ton and i know what's involved if you don't have a crane you got to do it manually so i'm doing that and i'm often thinking wait a second what if i'm going to do 2.3 million stones that weigh this much right like the tempo like giza yeah i mean that's a hell of a lot of work and social organization that's required and math yeah and hey does it make sense that you've got these kinds of uh undertakings uh you know by by people that were just a generation or two before subsistence farmers or hunter-gatherers i i i just have a hard time with that it's it's definitely interesting yeah it it it's it's also interesting how some parts of the world were so sophisticated in relationship to other parts of the world whereas some parts of europe weren't that sophisticated at all egypt was thriving uh in making construction on a scale that we that boggles the mind today and and we've seen even in recent times you know high advanced technological cultures living side by side with basically stone age cultures yes yeah and if we were to if this planet would be subjected to some of the kinds of events like the younger driest event there would be abs really no trace in 10 000 years right of our presence here other than the stone age material right like all of our hard drives all of our phones all be deteriorated plastic yeah it's gone gone everything's gone cars gone i was trying to have a conversation with my kids about this we were talking about books and uh how even books are going away and books are becoming hard drives yeah yeah and i'm saying do you know like if something happened everything we know would be gone so quickly yeah it's a real problem because it's so convenient to like uh i have my phone has a terabyte of data on it which is astounding i know it's astounding that you could have that much data on your phone but if that phone dies all that stuff's gone all that stuff is gone if we got hit if something hit us if we lost the power grid for a decade if we you know if we got down to like we were talking before this podcast about the toba volcano in indonesia yeah and about how seventy four thousand years ago it knocked the human race down to a few thousand people that's we saw i'm sure you saw it because i thought of you when it happened i saw that um volcano that erupted in the middle of the ocean when you could see it from space yeah fascinating fascinating eruption and here's the thing joe i mean if we were to have like if you go back to 18 you heard the year about the year without a summer 1816 no tambora plus several other unknown volcanoes erupted within about a five year span tambour was the big one indonesia and it discouraged huge amounts of ash and and and fine sediment into the atmosphere which circled the globe and basically the summer of 18 this was in 1815 the following summer there was basically no summer they they were having fourth of july uh commemoration in new england and it was snowing out fourth of july and this has been referred to as the last great subsistence crisis of western civilization because there was famine because you had uh agricultural failures so you have this this this thing that you can begin to to track now where you have primarily cold that's brought about by i think primarily volcanism is going to be the the the main instigator of this but also i think the la hyper velocity impacts we'll also do and we'll pull up some data here re shortly that shows that hypervelocity impacts are way way more common it was even assumed a decade two decades certainly a generation ago that these things are we've we actually been rather lucky in the last few centuries that we've not had any major impacts tungusk of 1908 is considered the most recent great impact and what we can talk about that in a minute you've heard of that right sure yeah that's the one over siberia yes it's impacted uh in the sky above the forest and flattened yes massive amounts of trees massive yes yes that was one that erroneously they they associated with tesla for some reason they thought that tesla was doing something wacky yeah well that's the tinder oil happening the evidence to me suggests very strongly that it was a piece of the torrid meteor stream which was a byproduct of disintegration of comet anki which was internal and this gets us back to the british neocatastrophes is enki named after the sumerian enki no i think it was named after uh an astronomer who discovered it most comets are named after whoever discovers them so and it's spelled a little different e-n-c-k-e as opposed to e-n-k-i but coincidence though anki anyways um so comet anki was probably part of a much bigger system and uh it was probably earth's encounter with the [ __ ] meteor stream that triggered the younger dryas impacts that's kind of a lot of the pieces are sort of fitting together now and the turret media stream was a much more prolific meteor stream in the past than it is now the earth crosses the torrid meteor stream twice each year peaks late october early november when uh the stream if you've got a picture i actually have a graphic i can pull up in a minute but you picture this stream circling the sun and going out to jupiter and then circling back coming around the sun and it's laying into the plane of the ecliptic earth's orbit crosses that stream twice so it crosses the stream when the stuff is coming in from out by jupiter and that's around halloween the fact they've been called the halloween meteors circle around the sun and the second time the earth crosses each year is late june early july but now that stream is coming right from the direction of the sun so that makes it largely invisible right because you're looking right almost into the sun see now when you look at the tunguska event it was june 30th peak of the torrid meteor stream if you look at its position in the sky where it came from it was perfectly positioned to be part of that torrid meteor stream so it was probably most likely nobody's proven it but it was the circumstantial case is very strong that it was a part of that torrid meteor stream and the [ __ ] media stream right now the radium the place in space where that the meteors appear to be emanating is almost targeted right on the pleiades which is the shoulder of the bull the constellation of the bull taurus and there's a whole bunch of really interesting mythology associated with that that we could dive into but it's um particularly like for example you ever heard of mithraism which mithraism was the in like first century a.d was the primary competitor to christianity throughout the whole roman empire and christianity went out for a variety of reasons but mithraism was loaded with some really potent symbolism and one of the things is that during the um mithraic ceremonies or rituals was called the taroctony the slaying of the celestial bowl and when you look at these images they would go underground and they would have a vault-shaped uh like temple that with stars painted on the ceiling and at the end of that they would have this uh this carving of the of mithras stabbing his uh sword into the slaying the bull the slasher ball stabbing his his sword into the shoulder of the bull and the blood flowing out and if you superimpose the uh constellation of the taurus in the classical sense the shoulder of the bull is the pleiades i look at that and i go i think what they're trying to symbolize here is that on a yearly basis they would see this meteor stream pouring out of the shoulder of the bull and i could certainly pull up some stuff like that to look at i thought really quickly since before we leave the atlantis thing a couple of the things this there is so now solon is in egypt sias egypt he's talking to the ancient priests right and he says there upon one of the priests who was of a very great age said so so long so long youth leans are but children and there's never an old man who is a helene salon hearing this said what do you mean the old priest said uh i mean to say that in mind you are all young there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition nor any science which is hoary with age and i will tell you the reason for this there have been and will be again many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water and other lesser ones by innumerable causes wow there is a story which even you even you helenes who don't know [ __ ] you know you're like children with your knowledge there's a story which even you have preserved that once upon a time satan the son of helios yoked to steeds of his father's chariot because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father burned up all that was upon the earth and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt now here's the key passage now this has the form of a myth but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving around the earth and in the heavens and a great conflagration of things all things upon the earth recurring at long intervals of time so he's saying right there he's saying okay this has a form of a myth but it's not really a myth behind the myth is something real and it's the bodies circulating in the heavens they decline or they descend to earth and they set the earth on fire so he's describing right there you see this whole phenomenon and making it clear that there's more dimensions to what we think of as myths than just some mere fanciful superstitious you know concoction to try to explain the unknown that there really is something going on behind there that's to me really uh significant it's really fascinating too when he's talking about how there's no old science and that everyone is young and he's it's it's really interesting when you think about someone from that long ago trying to make an account of what had happened to the earth with a relatively simplistic view of a relatively simplistic understanding of of the sky of asteroids of volcanoes of all these different things all these things yeah yeah but but the way they're describing it coincides once you have modern knowledge and understanding of these things you go i i think i see what they were trying to say that is so interesting isn't it though yeah i mean because dorothy vitagliano who was a a a a geologist back i think she died in the early 90s she was one of the in the forerunners of looking the atlantis thing and deciding that it was it was a that it was just a myth that it was made up of course when she was looking at this back in the 70s she didn't have access to the data that we now have okay she was the one who coined the term geomythology and said you know what we really need to be taking a closer look at some of the myths of old because they actually may contain really valid information about things that happened in the past and of course since then yeah it's it's emerged into like a whole discipline in itself looking at stories like the one we just looked at fading is a story about a great meteor or comet or asteroid something you know causing destruction on the earth and plato was saying this is not just a myth it's literal you know it really represents completely makes sense yeah and then he goes on to say um if any action which is noble or great or in any other way remarkable has taken place all that has been written down of old and is preserved in our temples whereas you and other nations are just being provided with letters and other requisites of civilization civilized life and then at the usual period the stream from heaven descends like a pestilence and i find the use of that term stream is interesting because we talk about a meteor stream right and we're looking at events that may have been caused by the influx of enormous amounts of cosmic material and i think that's the best way to explain what happened at the end of the last ice age a lot of the critics have tried to oversimplify and say well you had just one object coming in that that can't explain it right but the idea is this the models that have evolved are not just a single event but multiple events almost like again back to the british new catastrophists the idea of sort of a of a of an impact epoch which has to do with meteor streams will precess they will move so there will be times when the earth is crossing the stream and other times when the earth is more or less missing the stream it's just the analogy i use is you're out driving down a country road and you know you're all by yourself you're listening to some tunes your kickback there's nobody else on the road so you know it's relaxed you're not paying a lot of attention right your your probabilities of getting an impact are very low but now you come up to an intersection right now there's cars it's a major intersection there's cars going both ways so now your probabilities of getting into an accident are going to increase by several orders of magnitude now to take the analogy further you'll know that sometimes there might if if it's 3 a.m maybe your probabilities are low if it's 5 pm your probabilities are high and if you just shut your eyes and you cross that intersection boom you might get slammed same way think of that think of a meteor stream and in that meteor stream there are pockets where the material is denser in other places where it's spread out much finer and there will be times of the year or times within say a millennia where you may have the earth intersecting that meteor stream in a much more denser part than than other centuries during that period you're going to have an increased probability of something happening and i think this is the the model that's emerging now that we we're realizing that the structure of space in earth's vicinity is a whole lot more complex than we had previously even imagined a generation ago it completely makes sense but it is horrific to think that the history of the human race and its survival is dependent upon in a lot of ways luck it is yeah yeah so i thought i would run through this just i call this close encounters not this is not by any means comprehensive but i've been tracking this [ __ ] for decades now so i call this close encounters and we'll just i'm just going to go through very fast just to give the impression of what we're talking about here okay we started out uh yeah this 88 that's when i started tracking this stuff 1988 yeah march 23rd 1988 we earth just dodged this big asteroid now we'll just go through and you can see 1989 giant asteroid makes close pass by earth 1991 near mists of earth by small asteroid now of course the small asteroid can still do a hell of a lot of damage tanguska was a small asteroid 1994 asteroid comes within 65 000 miles of earth 96 it was a close call for planet earth 2000 study raises number of dangerous asteroids later in that year asteroid estimates too low asteroid makes close approach scientists worry over asteroids huge asteroid nearly misses earth january 7 2002. january 7th large asteroid passes closer to the asteroid large enough to wipe out france yeah it'll just pass earth at a distance of a half a million miles so that's twice the distance to the moon had it been on a collision course that would have created one of the great one of the worst disasters in human history said stephen pravdo the neat project manager at nasa's jet propulsion laboratory and this is just 2002 yep had it hit yeah march 8th you know an asteroid large enough to flatten the city buzzed to earth earlier this month and was not seen until after it flew harmlessly by oh my god that's the thing about the sun right like that it was coming from the sun so it was coming from that same area in tanguska yes now this i just unless you're looking in the right place for it you're not going to necessarily see it i like the article too highlighting cosmic blind spot yeah that's a terrifying thought yeah and then the same year june 14th asteroid 2002 mn gives earth its closest shave in years uh an asteroid the size of a football pitch well that would be you know 100 yards in in diameter which is quite a bit bigger than the tunguska that one's close 75 thousand miles yeah that's really close that's really close well inside earth's orbit or the moon's orbit rather same event the size of a football field august 7th near miss asteroid whizzes past earth this is 800 meters wide now that's many times bigger than the tunguska this this 800 meters could wipe out an area bigger than the state of texas and it would have global effects so eight football fields yeah and it can kill an entire state and probably put the entire earth into some sort of a nuclear winter yes yes 2003 closest asteroid yet flies past earth 88 000 feet 2004 january 13th earth almost put on impact alert near miss raises rocky questions yes it does march 18th asteroid soars past earth oh so closely 2005 february 4th asteroid 2004 eminent are really near miss comet strikes surprisingly more likely so this is we're just barely getting by we're like a guy in an action movie where they're shooting at him he never gets hit and he never gets hit yeah pretty much so you can see i'll just just keep going here well for folks that are just listening he's highlighting article after article after article headline after headline asteroid just buzzed earth came closer to the moon and then here we go in 2013 yeah fly by earth you see we go from february 15th now there's another one that year september 16th um that one that one was 1300 feet in diameter so 10 times more diameter than tenguska uh four forty thousand miles an hour halloween asteroid resembling a skull oh my god it does look good doesn't it that's terrifying we've been killed by that skull so this is a very very common thing yes and we're just getting and it just got 27 000 miles yeah 1 8 the distance between the earth and the moon yeah so it's really common yes and now we're just looking at when we could record it when they can track it and measure it which is within the last 100 years or so last last 25 or 30 years yeah so really with this taken into consideration and then you go back you know 11 000 12 000 plus years the amount of times that this has happened has probably been just off the charts hundreds of times hundreds of times yeah here we go snuck up on a scientist done by city killer asteroid that just missed earth city killer initially but probably kill a whole lot more afterwards yeah we were talking about tonga earlier um the the volcano that killed most people it got the human race down to 12 000 excuse me toba yeah 74 000 right well 74 000 years ago yeah i think it got people down to a few thousand they don't really know how many but right genetic bottleneck but it's the same sort of effect right because of the volcano spraying ash in the sky yes a volcanic winter would be very similar to an impact winter very much so so this is it's astonishingly astonishingly common yes 600 miles in diameter oh jesus four asteroids are buzzing the earth in flybys today three of them were discovered within the last 24 hours this is 2019. yeah wow so it's it's actually possible that something is headed our way right now we don't even know about it oh there's no doubt something is headed our way right now i mean yeah because see these things you got to bear in mind these things are on orbits and those orbits uh you can track those orbits and anything that's going to hit us in the future is on a trajectory right now that if we could discover it track it we'd go okay this thing's going to hit us in 2029 or whatever the case may be so yeah there yeah so look at this 2 000 feet wide whizzed past our planet tomorrow and this is 2019. yeah nasa admits we're not going to know when a space rock flies at earth there's the other there's a problem also with the gravity of the sun correct like they don't quite see things that are headed our way just because of the mass of the sun the way it affects yeah and we were talking about with the tunguska is that you know if stuff is coming what you would call the perihelion passage where it's passed closest to the sun and now it's coming from around the sun yeah you'd have to basically look into the sun to see it so it's gonna it'd be very easy to very easy decent mess so here at june 2020 biggest asteroid to pass close and undetected this year biggest asteroid of 2021 is going to zoom past earth tonight flying as fast as a hundred thousand kilometers per hour that's 60 000 miles per hour 60 000 miles per hour huge asteroid to pass earth and this is look at the day 21 12 8 yeah that was just not even two months ago yeah one that's 850 feet wide nasa asteroid warning eiffel tower sized asteroid narrowly missed earth in december jeez asteroids this is january 11th it's a couple weeks ago yeah january 11th an asteroid estimated to be a kilometer wide will pass earth on january 18th it will pass within 1.2 million miles of our planet which is far enough that we're completely safe but sort of in aggregate of all of this what we're seeing is that unlike our conceptions of near-earth space a couple of generations ago we realized that there's all kinds of cosmic beasts that live in the space that we inhabit yeah because that 1.2 million miles is far but it's not if you think about how vast space is right yep oh boy yeah and there you can see from this oh right look at this now this chart's terrifying near-earth asteroid discoveries and then you look at the difference between 1980 where we had very little understanding of this and 2022 well this is this goes to 2020 i guess was the end of the chart around 2020 yeah so at the end of the chart probably more like 2018 i think when this chart was done and because of scientific discoveries and the ability to measure it's off the charts yeah it's crazy it is oh my god five billion dollar asteroid so what is in in this asteroid well they got all kinds of precious metals in them yeah which is very interesting because that opens up some some possibilities for the future if we the human species are up to it if we can figure out how to mine them yeah and there's there's companies already forming around this idea i wouldn't be surprised if elon is thinking along these lines when you're thinking about something that's going 60 000 miles an hour and it's as big as you know multiple football fields how i mean how prepared are we to even deflect something like that at this point we're not we're just not we're not we're sitting ducks we're we're screwed we're screwed so you have canned food in your house i got about six months worth do you i do yeah yeah that's not quite enough is it probably not it could yeah because really we've got about six months worth of food before our food starts running out for the world for the world yeah so you know if we had a dusting a cosmic winter a volcanic winter uh i mean that shut down agriculture for a year or two half the population of the earth is going to be dead within the next year that's not an exaggeration so well also you have to deal with the mammals dying as well right because they're going to be without food yeah yeah you're going to have see now we get into a mass extinction level event we had that at the younger driest if you think of all of the megafauna megaphone is over 44 kilograms body weight or about 100 pounds right the planet lost about half of all megafauna species during that younger dryas now there was already animals disappearing leading up to it because i think could be attributed to whatever happened at 14 600 years ago where i talked about earlier meltwater pulse 1a right that's when the the [ __ ] really started to seem like it started coming down and then it peaked younger driest 12 850 and then we had the impact winter for 1300 years and at the end of that it wasn't a gradual warming it was a catastrophic warming and by that time i think whatever species had managed to survive some of the earlier events may have succumbed at that point you know the controversy has come down to was it nature was it climate was it human hunters i think it was all of that but i think hunters was probably a minor uh contributor to it because for one thing it now appears that the human population took a major crash at the same time like we see that there's evidence that the clovis culture in north america pretty much completely disappeared right at that boundary well they weren't the only ones around the planet now if you go and you look at um some of the archaeological evidence one of the things you see over and over again as well there was this cultural group in japan or wherever i just read a paper on that recently and apparently there was some kind of social disruption and they got up and they migrated and moved away well maybe they did but maybe they didn't move away maybe they didn't survive and there was a tendency to think well you have this evidence of cultural habitation of this area for centuries or millennium and then suddenly you don't well people must have picked up and moved but maybe that's not the explanation maybe it's more a case of they got wiped out and one of the things he pointed out before is the evidence of there's certain mammals that appear to have died instantaneously particularly mammoths yes yeah wilty rhinos yeah a lot of there's been a lot of uh what you might call flash frozen um animals found in the tundra and they found large populations of them that seem to have died at the same time yeah mass death mass mortality events um you know yeah that's you showed some images also of what it looks like mammoths with broken legs yeah that looked like they'd just been blown away by an it could have been what could have been or the the something like the the barasovka mammoth i think that's the one i showed which was um a mammoth that was frozen in the permafrost and it was a pretty i think 1901 was a particularly warm year that year in in siberia and there was a collapse of the ground that exposed this mammoth right and he was sitting on his haunches and both of his hips were broken and he had food in his mouth and in his stomach he'd been eating flowering plants but now he was a six six tons in weight and even the contents of his stomach had not putrefied which meant that it got frozen and the scientific study suggested that the entire carcass would have had to have been frozen within about 10 hours to prevent putrefaction of the material in the stomach so how do you freeze a six-ton mammoth in 10 hours that's that's where it gets that's the conundrum and a six-ton mammoth that had just been eating flowering plants yes which is crazy that's crazy so something had to happen something had to happen yeah something happened and quickly and quickly and this poor wooly mammoth got buried and got frozen and we know he got buried quick because he had an erect penis hi well because that was a that's what happens when you suffocate oh wow yeah like suddenly entombed and his whole body is now under pressure see so um yeah very interesting conundrum there's a lot of those conundrums that are not readily explained through gradualistic scenarios have you had a conversation with someone who's a blitzkrieg hypothesis who is of the opinion that the the vast number of these native american animals north american i have not but i'm pretty much familiar with most of the papers that they've written and obviously i think like i said i think that perhaps in the aftermath there was a role for humans however when you see the assumption is again that see what we know now about the lifeways of those late ice age uh peoples was that they hunted small game they fished they foraged mammoths would have been the largest most dangerous animal to hunt and when you think about the fact that if you look at the estimates for total global population back during the late pleistocene range from 5 to 10 million the estimates that i've seen for the number of mammoths inhabiting the earth was about 12 million so you've got at least one mammoth for every man woman and child at least one of the conventional interpretations on earth now how do you exterminate not only the woolly mammoths but the woolly rhinos the mastodons north american horses the ground slaws the horses the saber-toothed cats the the giant short-faced bear the cave bear on and on and on and on yeah exactly yeah so i just don't think it makes sense now what's that based upon it's based upon the fact that there have been a few sites that were assumed to be kill sites like for example at the blackwater draw clovis new mexico they found a mammoth skeleton with a clovis point between the ribs in the rib cage then they did this major extrapolation from that said that uh this goes back to paul martin back in the 60s um they did a major extrapolation from that and said well oh they were hunting mammoths well there we go there's the explanation so they came across in this blitzkrieg like we were talking about earlier across the bering land bridge connecting alaska to siberia came down through that ice free corridor slaughtering basically all these animals in their pathway as they went never mind that no indigenous group culture that we've ever known in history has done that right they were able to slaughter and i mean we're talking about even the the megafauna of south america underwent as great a mass extinction as those in north america so within a thousand years from alaska to tierra del fuego every megafaunal species was wiped out or half of all megafauna species in north america was three quarters roughly the same in in south america were wiped out so completely that they couldn't even viably replenish their species i think that that's really implausible and now basically with the evidence that there was catastrophic events that coincided precisely with the major mass extinction episodes and the fact that human populations seem to have crashed at the same time well what that tells us is that you know probably you know you don't have a catastrophe that's going to wipe out 12 million woolly mammoths and and then leave humans completely unscathed we see the clovis culture basically disappearing at the younger driest boundary so where were the people that were able to affect this great extermination event if we have this estimate of toba of uh getting people down to a few thousand people what's the estimate of the younger driest impact and what what i have not seen estimates but i would speculate this one reason it's escaped our attention particularly is because it wasn't a genetic bottleneck the same as toba because basically that indicates to me and this again i think the the empirical data is consistent with this the stories that we've inherited would suggest that there were dispersed survivors all over the earth and so if you have dispersed survivors we could miss a genetic bottleneck entirely so uh yeah so dispersed survivors would mean that you have people that do stay alive if they have some sort of access to resources there's some something that they could survive off of whereas people that had been subsisting off of these animals that had gone extinct and and you know also the climate had changed radically it's definitely going to be um based upon upon that your access to resources and the habitat destruction is not going to be uniform so there's going to be some places where you know that the damage is is less severe and they're going to be you know in ecology when you have uh a major environmental destruction oh a few years ago i went to mount st helens to study the how the nature was recovering in the aftermath because you had a couple hundred square miles in the after that math of mount st helens back in may of of 1980 that was just basically turned into a completely decimated lunar landscape yeah but even within that there were little pockets of ferns that survived and from those ferns you see life gradually beginning to proliferate outwards and then with an increasing pace as the years go by and so now maybe a third of the area that was devastated is being reclaimed forests are starting to encroach another few centuries the forest the mountain will be pretty much reforested um and so which is a very small amount of time relatively for the earth yes yes certainly by half a millennium i think you're going to be seeing forests completely recovering on them on the mountain it's such a fascinating subject because i feel like we're so underprepared and under informed i feel so few people are even conscious of like just that closing counter slide that you showed and so many different yeah asteroids have whizzed past us so closely and how we're so accustomed to our supply chain we're so accustomed to supermarkets and yeah this is the most vulnerable the species has ever been in terms of our ability to subsist yeah we're almost completely dependent upon these large structures were completely dependent on supermarkets and supply chains that are coming in on trucks and boats and and airplanes yeah and i got to say this though i think part of the problem is is that what we've been looking at here has been kind of pushed off the radar screen because the whole emphasis for the last couple of decades now is you know what global warming yeah that you know we're responsible for catastrophic climate change and you what you don't want to really be talking about too much is that there has been repeated episodes too many to count episodes of catastrophic climate change that we had nothing to do with we were not the perpetrators we were the victims i think people that would counter that would say that doesn't mean that we should ignore the human impact on the climate absolutely not right i'm total agreement with that but i think that we need to have a realistic perspective of what's really dangerous yes and we're really dangerous in the short term like it's in terms of possibilities yes that's that would be my take on it and is there anything that we could have done differently to prepare ourselves for impacts like if we if you say if this knowledge that you're you're talking about right here if this had been widely distributed say two decades ago could there have been some methods put into place or so well if we'd kept up the momentum of our space program from the 60s we could be there now you think there they would be able to have something that could oh yeah because i mean you know the dart the mission that was just launched that's going to rendezvous with this with an asteroid is to test the possibility of see here's the thing if we can find an asteroid in orbit right we can trace its pathway into the future we know okay we got 10 years 20 years that asteroid is going to be crossing earth's orbit at the precise moment the earth is there this is how they were able to predict remember 1994 july shoemaker levy 9 right 21 objects slammed into jupiter in july of uh 1994 that was predicted over a year in advance right so we had basically 15 months it took from the discovery to the point where its trajectory could be um could be predicted was about three or four months of observations over those three or four months of observations the scientists the astronomers were able to go okay it's tracing this arc of an ellipse at this at this velocity well we can project that into the future and we can recreate the entire ellipse and we can by using gravitational perturbation theory and all of that we can predict that you know 15 or a year from now now this was after three months of observation a year from now it's going to be back out and it's going to be crossing the orbit of jupiter well guess what it's crossing the orbit of jupiter at that precise week that jupiter is there so they were able to predict a year in advance right down you know to the day when those impacts were going to occur same thing with earth if we had enough lead time that's the key and then the technologies in place the technologies would be the simplest thing i think and the one that makes the most sense to me is that if you catch it early enough uh a direct hit a little nudge could turn a direct hit into a a wide miss and how difficult is it to calculate whether or not it's going to hit us from distance like when they're if you've got enough observations it's it's not that difficult it's not that just just like it was very pretty much straightforward you have what are called the orbital elements and you you can do some mathematical equations on those orbital elements and that will tell you when and where it's going to be and so then they would just shoot some sort of rocket at it and knock it off probably the best thing would be you actually just go and attend i think that what that what the dart mission is looking at is actually attaching an object with booster booster rockets on it attaching that to the asteroid and pushing and now a direct hit is a miss right and is it the same thing like you would think about with a ship that if two ships are going into this in a parallel line if you just knock one of them slightly off course over time it's far yes oh okay that's exactly the idea joe yeah exactly now anybody ever contacted you about this stuff from the government what's that has anybody ever contacted you about this stuff yes really now this is a man that i would highly recommend you get sitting right here and talk to him lieutenant colonel uh no longer lieutenant colonel matt lomier matt lomeyer was the head of the space force until he wrote a book criticizing the pandemic of wokeism infecting the military so now he reached out to me several years ago he was and he was a test pilot highly decorated highly accomplished test pilot in the air force he got chosen to be one of the leaders in the air force he got chosen to be one of the leaders in space force he actually did there's a video he could i bet you jamie could pull it up if you put matt lomayer um donald trump you have my we're connected to your computer today pardon me we're on your computer oh okay so i can't sorry is that the hdmi yeah yeah you could do it i guess i could do it let's try it let's try it you're not on the internet we didn't unless he connected so matt has been on you know he's well he was on tucker carlson after this happened so he he got so he he had a criticism about woke-ism right so like what particularly was bothering him about wokism in the military well he wrote a book about it uh which i read like a year and a half ago but basically just the political correctness in what you were allowed to talk about and not talk about irresistible revolutions was the name of his book so he published the book he did a couple of uh interviews and they canned them highly highly skilled um you know that we spent probably several hundred million dollars training this guy jimmy we text me this text me this guy's name and his book i'll uh i'll look it up and i'll i'll maybe i'll contact him after this oh he he's already said that he would you know he's now in private life living in idaho but anyways so he reached out they all go to idaho why a lot of them go to idaho i think they know something maybe so a lot of them all those ex-cia folks yeah go up there too anyways matt is a great guy he's articulate he's well educated he'd be a great interview okay he would be a great interviewee um so anyways so you asked me the question he reached out to me like two years ago yeah when he was still heading up space force and came and came and actually visited me in atlanta it was i was building the restaurant that you've the t-shirt the wheelhouse craft pub and kitchen we weren't finished yet he came there uh we went and had dinner together or something he wanted to know if i would be willing if he organized all the base commanders if i would be willing to come and address them and talk to them about planetary defense and i said absolutely i would i'd jump at the chance to do that so he was in the process of organizing it when the coveted pandemic started and that just derailed the whole thing and then he was in the process of reorganizing it when they gave him the boot and so they gave him the boot specifically about his criticism of wokism yes yes but it seems like he's got a good point well yeah very much so imagine you find a guy who's got a good point and instead of going hey man thanks you fire him right you fire him not good not good no no and he he he'll tell you the whole story well the wokism has accelerated at a very high rate i can't imagine being someone in the military that has to make pragmatic decisions and decisions life or death decisions that are often very uncomfortable and you need some hard-nosed realistic individuals implementing these you can't you can't do that under the guise of wokenism that's right and uh matt was highly highly qualified to do i mean top top of his game i mean his his resume was very impressive and for the the woke military and you know this to just sorry you can't say you're not allowed to say that um and so yeah he got got the boot it's a [ __ ] strange time randall so that was the only person that's ever contacted you about doing something about this about putting something in place but that would see what he told me was that a lot of the younger base commanders were really interested in this idea of planetary defense and he said this was not our primary mission however i think and he believed that it was critically important in fact his connection may have been you and me i think it was i think i think he first heard me you and me talking about one of these about this subject at some point i don't wouldn't have known which one i mean this is number six that you and i have been together on this but um but yeah he was uh i think that's where he first you know heard me you you and you and i talking about that makes sense yeah well hopefully someone is going to reach out again and someone will pick up if you're interested i can set this up i could call him yeah i would love to talk to him he'd be a great guest sounds like he would be he would be very interested so what were we getting to before that we were talking about um ways that we could possibly divert and whether or not it's feasible and there's essentially no plan right now correct that's not that doesn't come from me it's not comforting no it's not it's just sitting there waiting i mean we make all these grand plans for the future of our our cities and our we're worried about political you know problems and you know which party's going to control the house and i got to say though i suspect i would not be a bit surprised if matt got reinstated once the political climate changes the other thing is you know us government has dropped the ball for the most part and what we see now is the private space yeah program stepping into the void right so i'm i'm very much a proponent and an advocate of that i believe that it's our destiny to move into space and i think that if we don't we're going to go the way the dinosaurs eventually and maybe maybe our species won't get extinct but the point is and this is i think you're seeing this and the point of what we're talking about is that our civilization is actually way more vulnerable than what we've assumed well i think this pandemic alerted people to that because something that had a very high survival rate still completely disrupted the world economy completely disrupted yes yeah in most ways yeah so imagine a tenguska type event times a hundred right we're we're really screwed yeah we're really screwed and this is not some science fiction scenario at all no not by any stretch of the imagination this is uh science fact science fact yeah i'm looking here i'm not getting online let's see you have to type in though we didn't give you the we didn't do that yet what's that you have to get on the wi-fi and stuff we didn't give you the password so you couldn't be online can we do that yeah jamie uh i don't remember okay here jamie will set it up for you oh super we'll pause here folks and we're back all right let me get up google maps here does that thing why does it have have such a big base to it is that all battery i guess yeah i you know i'm not that much of a techie i just i let people set these things up for me and i just uh well you have so much information in your head i don't know how you would have time to be a techie when you're given 18-hour lectures on atlantis well i mean not all at once i know not all at once but where's the time for anything else there's no time to wonder about equipment in terms of computers and stuff oh yeah here we go let's see layers terrain that's what i want right there uh so we were talking earlier about you know melt water pulses and catastrophic melting and so on yeah we did talk previously about some of this research that i've been doing out in the pacific northwest and we're zooming in on here eastern washington and what you see here is these what is called a channeled scab land now you can see there's these darker areas and then there's the lighter areas okay this whole area this whole thing that i'm circling here is the columbia basalt plateau basalt is a lava rock that extrudes from the earth and it solidifies this case the the lava rock is dark it's covered by one to 200 feet of soil called lus it's a type of unique very fertile soil that it's accumulated on top of the basalt rock okay so at the end of the last ice age there were a series of melt water pulses that discharged off the ice sheet and it washed away the top soil and exposed this dark basalt underneath right so you got this is called a scab land tract and i'll show you some photographs of it you got one big scab land tract here another one here you've got this what's called grand coulee over here which is a huge uh canyon like feature that was cut by melt water you've got another what's called moses [ __ ] let's zoom in here you see this kind of rqa form here kind of looks like a half circle okay that's terminal mooring now terminal mooring if you picture this joe you've got a glacier tongue coming down and as it's coming down oversimplified but it gives the idea it's bulldozing up material it's pulverizing the ground underneath it's pulling up and and then so this mooring here is basically exactly defines the end or the edge of this glacier lobe that reached all the way back up into here over the canadian rockies well sometime between 12 say and 14 000 years ago there was a series of massive melt water pulses that discharged off the ice sheet and this thing here for example is called moses coulee and moses cooley is basically a giant scar in the earth that was cut within a matter of probably a week or two it's 800 to a thousand feet deep and up to a mile to two miles wide right so i've been exploring this that was a week yeah about a week what what makes you say that well a lot of things it's it's mostly the studies um because we know the peak discharges and we're talking here both moses cooley right here and grand coulee up here had peak discharges of about 300 to 400 million cubic feet per second now how much is that well you can't even begin to wrap your head around what 300 million cubic feet per second means but if you were to take every single river on earth every river you know mississippi the the columbia the mackenzie the yukon the oronaco the amazon the the congo the nile the po the the yellow river of china all the rivers of earth add them all together you'd still have to multiply that by at least 10 to 20 to get a discharge a peak discharge of 300 to 400 million cubic feet per second so all the rivers of the world all the rivers of the world times 10 times at least 10 at least 10. and i'm going to show you here now we're going to pull up now of course this is just one area now the reason i'm drawn to this particular area and oh by the way i'll mention this in april i'll be out here with graham hancock graham is doing a netflix series ah now when he was writing his book magicians of the gods i took him we guided for two weeks we started at portland and ended in minneapolis and what we did was we followed the margin of the great ice sheets so i basically was showing them all of this evidence for these catastrophic melt water discharges if you get the book magicians of the gods i think two or three chapters he talks about our journey together so the netflix episode we're going to do is we're going to be going we're going to go to grand coulee we're going to go right here to this feature and this is a giant extinct cataract feature like a gigantic version of niagara falls but many many times larger and there's no flowing water here now because it was a temporary giant discharge of melt water when that melt water finally passed over the landscape drained off into the pacific ocean it left these giant fossil features here and you can see i mean here here's a highway right here right this building here the dry falls visitor center is this building right here and there's a picture of graham and i we're standing let's see if we can see it ah here we go isn't modern technology amazing you just keep zooming and zooming on this map i know from space and you're just doing a laptop i know it's fantastic well let's you can't see but there's we're standing right down here overlooking this this feature okay um and so this feature is widely recognized as a dry fall waterfall this is not like a controversial thing no and what is the conventional reason for that existing is there conventional explanation reason is that over here in western montana there was a giant lake and that lake was held in by an ice dam right in the area of lake ponderay and the water backed up 2 100 feet deep behind the ice dam the ice dam gave way and all this water spilled out and then spilled across the basalt plateau that's the conventional explanation i have i have strong issues about that explanation for multiple reasons the main reason being is that ice is very unstable and if we look at modern ice damned lakes that we've seen in the last 100 years their typical their their peak discharges and their peak volumes are typically like only 1 000 or less even the big ones are only about 1 000 the volume of this i believe and others i think are starting to believe that we're actually looking at some kind of an accelerated melting because for one thing the conventional explanations for this giant lake uh do not ever explain how that lake got there let me just go back to here and i'll show you uh let's see cataclysmos one this should this should give it to us right here and you'll see the configuration so this is montana yeah so here here we go this would have been showing graphically kind of the configuration of the ice at the late glacial maximum and so this is what what time period what how many years ago this would have been about 16 to 20 000 years ago and here you go here you can see the two ice sheets the cordy aaron and the lauren tide and this this is the area where the uh ice-free corridor would have been that we were talking about um this box right here shows the area of the missoula floods they're called um let's just go find us uh there we go so here this would have been lake missoula and this would have been all of the area that we were just looking at where it's eroded all that water would have come down flowed through the columbia gorge here this portland is right here would have turned north and right here at astoria would have drained into the pacific ocean there was so much water coming down here that had backed all the way up through willamette valley and formed a temporary body of water 400 feet deep where portland now is which would have completely submerged portland right so this is basically configuration now there you can see this would have been the ice dam um let's see here uh so i could go back to the maps that's that's the lake uh so this was a very controversial over uh from th because j harlan bretz who was the geologist who first theorized this let's see here he is right here uh he was considered a crackpot because he was talking about giant floods back in the 1920s and 30s but of course he was proven right and ended up being the recipient of the penrose medal in his in his 90s so he was the first one to speculate yeah and what was his reasoning like where did he see the evidence for the for some sort of a flooding he was he was doing research along the columbia river and he kept seeing evidence like of these gigantic gravel bars and boulders and things that seemed out of place and he actually in fact in 1910 is when he got interested in this and he saw in fact i'll pull this up i'll go back to google maps and there was a newly released map that came out that was this feature right here and in a minute i'll show you some drone footage of this feature he was look this new topographic map came out 1910 and he was regularly getting maps he loved to look at maps and he was looking at this feature and he said what the hell is the explanation for this and this is what started him on this quest this thing right here it's called potholes cataract and potholes cataract is a giant erosional feature in the basalt the edge of the basalt plateau and the water came from the right and what you have here it'll zoom in you see this kind of round hole right here yeah that is a result of what's called caulking this is caulking when the water gets so turbulent that it's doing this like a tornado and it literally can drill into the rock in a matter of days it can drill and what you see here is the evidence of gigantic turbulence and this is called a recessional cataract so as the water pours over this picture you've got you've got the rock okay so the water is pouring over it and as it does as it pours over it's eroding the wall of the cataract back so it's receding and then it's going to keep receding until there's no more water and at the time the spigots the flood spigots are turned off you're now left with this fossil feature is there a geological format like a as a style of like what you're calling it culking is that what you're saying k-o-l-k-i is there's something that it does to the walls of that particular lake that make it evident that it was done that way like does it leave like like almost like a water drill like you know the holes drilled into rock oh that's the evidence and yeah and i mean we can see turbulence in modern water flows but the thing is to do something like this you have to have extremely deep extremely fast moving turbulent water and sustained for maybe in this case a few weeks so a few weeks made that lake just just by water oh yeah a few weeks maybe this whole feature right here and what you have is you have two alcoves here's the north alcove in the south alcove separated by what's called a rock blade and that rock blade if that water had continued to pour over for another few days that rock blade would have been gone completely gone so it's just spinning at a furious pace massive amounts of water and it's drilling into the stone and how deep is it well we can kind of estimate because the major discharge point of this water was right down here and look at this terrain that is a terrain that has been tortured by extreme sheer forces of water here it would have been about 400 feet deep the width of this is about nine miles so you got a picture of river 400 feet deep nine miles wide and it's probably moving at 50 miles an hour the water and so we can go over here this is a ridge separating this basin area here from the columbia river there were another spillover point was right here it also has two alcoves with a rock blade if we go back to dry falls cataract which is up here you will see two alcoves a rock blade and you'll see that there's now a separation here because what's happening is this rock blade is being washed away and again had the had the water flow continued for another week or two this rock blade would have been gone now is there a conventional explanation for these features do they do they try to come up with some other alternative explanations no it's gigantic floods gigantic floods yeah that's pretty much accepted at this point the what's controversial is what caused in the speed of it no the speed of it's pretty much accepted really oh yeah even the speed of that caulking like the the cause of that that's accepted oh yeah wow yeah um and what did i mean what explanation would they give for something that is causing that much water to pass through an area that well the draining of this lake right but that doesn't make any sense to you doesn't make sense to me no um but in this all co coincides on the timeline of the younger dry ice impact theory this is controversial but yes i'm thinking that there was at least maybe three episodes of catastrophic flooding imprinted in this landscape the first one i would speculate was at 14 600. second one would have been younger driest and the third one would have been 11 600. now i know that they've found evidence of uh human beings in north america that predate 11 000 years oh yeah right yeah do they is there an understanding of like if this impact theory is correct and if it did uh greatly diminish the population of people that are living in north america where did they concentrate where did the survivors primarily come from do we know that no no because it appears there was a hiatus of about half a millennium and then you have a really a different cultural group showing up called the folsom culture and they came from somewhere else i don't know they don't know somebody probably has ideas on it i don't know but you know i i would i i would like to be three people then i might be able to research all of this because i'm just thinking like where would it be a safe place to survive like with the melting of these ice caps at such a rapid rate you would not want you would not have wanted to been in north america you don't want to be in wisconsin no you don't want to be in wisconsin no so you you don't want to be in north america period even in mexico even all the way down there mexico was uh let's see oh my god so we're gonna i'm gonna pull forward here let's see if we can get uh i'm gonna show you some oh here we go potholes cooley so here we go this is drone footage of what we were just looking at there's the rock blade we're looking right at the rock blade oh god it looks like something that was destroyed by water water is coming towards us it makes sense if you look at it from above it's so much different topologically when you're looking at a map and it shows the features it makes sense but this you you go when you saw that that one rock feature that you just showed you go oh yeah i could see that being from water i mean just from what i know about erosion it's not a lot but it completely makes sense it just looks like it and so this was all carved by water and this is all carved very rapidly very rapidly by floods that are really way way beyond anything experienced in historical times and so the idea is that these impacts did was the is the idea that they slammed right into the ice cap that's what i think that's what i would theorize i you know and because of the extreme heat and extreme velocity it has the i mean you're you're looking at you know one impact could be the equivalent of a million atomic bombs holy sh oh yeah so look at this this rock blade here and here you can see look there's that round lake we were looking at yeah and i don't know if you can even see people in this i've got one where you where some of us are standing on the rock blade and we look like little specks when you're looking at it from this perspective god it does make sense it makes sense that this is water cost and that this is my massive amounts of water yeah but i just my my understanding of uh erosion is not enough to understand that this was done quickly well as i have said since you can look at photos you can look at stuff like this you don't really comprehend it though until you've been across those landscapes and experienced them firsthand knowing what the story is um you come away i mean it's it's like a it's almost like an acid trip in a way it's so mind stretching when you begin to see this stuff firsthand that you really realize oh my god there have been forces unleashed on this planet that utterly dwarf anything that we humans have yet been able to to do so is there any estimation at all about what size the the comet was that impacted the ice caps or how many this is such a new idea and it's still at this point very controversial um but i think you know some of the comet research group is looking at that and see this is a whole area of research that has been looked at by paleo hydrologists who have not been astronomers right now you've got astronomers who are looking at let me pause this for just a second it's like we're we're in this this area now where we're starting to see the overlap this interdisciplinary overlap because paleo hydrologists have been looking for purely terrestrial explanations for this right now before 2007 nobody even was even thinking the possibility of of an a hypervelocity impact into the ice sheet other than myself wow uh you know and of course who am i i'm nobody right you know but that's pretty crazy like what if you didn't exist what if i didn't exist yeah that's that's one of the things that freaks me out about humanity is that there's occasionally these figures and if they didn't exist everything's different well you know this is i've had this obsessive hobby for over 40 years yeah i've read the odds 10 000 scientific papers i've covered you met brad brad and i alone have covered over 150 000 miles in the field that's what i'm saying what are the odds that someone like you is even real like if you were in a movie i'd be like what what is he what is he doing he's just you know what i'm saying i know you're real but i mean i remember meeting you at the punch line in atlanta yeah and uh you hitting me with all this information and uh i guess i had just started the podcast then because this was you were saying two your friend brad was saying 2009 right yeah that's when we met because he was there as well that that was the first year of the podcast i mean it might not have even started or it might have just started so you in that one conversation that we had at the comedy club you sparked this interest in my mind but i remember talking to you thoroughly blown away and then leaving that club with a completely different thought process when it comes to like the the history of life on north america and the world in general and this this whole impact theory that you've been working on for so long so i successfully corrupted you instantly i mean we probably talked for like an hour or so right we did yeah yeah and i remember it was noisy in there yeah but we were like yeah locked in man locked in i wanted to hear about that yeah and then how did i end up well it was graham that suggested you should get me and you told graham yeah i met that guy yeah that's right that's right yeah blame it all on graham because graham is one of my first guests graham uh who's duncan trussell and i and graham and that was early early on in the podcast because i had uh read uh fingerprints of the gods i had read you know his whole idea of this restarting of civilization and this concept that we are a civilization with amnesia yeah and that something had happened and it's really cool to see him because i remember back in the day i'd bring that book up and people would call me you know crazy fringe conspiracy loving people who hadn't read the book yes most most of people that hadn't read the book but once quebeckly tepe emerged and then uh dr robert shock from boston university who started examining the water erosion of the temple the sphinx and all of these different pieces came into play where you have undeniable evidence of an advanced civilization that's making massive complex stone structures concentric circles all these different structures like 11 000 plus years ago at a time where they thought people were just primarily hunters and gatherers and then watching them try to take this hunter gatherer theory and apply it to these incredible stone structures it didn't make any sense don't make any sense no and it's it's really interesting also it gave me an understanding of science and scientists in a in an unflattering way not that they're all like this but there is a problem when someone proclaims uh a very specific thing they they have a thing that they've been teaching they have a thing that they learned and they have the thing that they subscribe to in terms of a timeline in terms of and then any new evidence does not get treated like evidence it gets treated like an intruder it gets treated like a threat and you watch them argue it with like i remember when uh graham hancock was there with uh zawi hawas and there was uh another man who was an egyptologist and mark yeah mocking this idea that there was an advanced civilization 9 000 years ago well now of course we know that's true now there's no there's no if ands or buts so then you have to re-look at the old uh old style old kingdom construction of egypt and how different it was than the later years and the fact that it was all under understand and that they had to excavate this stuff and that these these you have two completely different styles of construction and the old stuff is really complex not just really complex but insanely difficult to do like how are they how are they having these massive stones that are cut so beautifully and perfectly and they moved into place and they're what are they doing like how they how are they getting the stones for the king's chamber from 500 miles in a way have you ever been to egypt no i have not well when you go there which you will i'm sure we're gonna have to go yeah you have to get number one on the bucket list number one on the bucket list maybe i'll be joining you i would love that that would be awesome that would be awesome but down near the aswan dam there's a place called uh it's the unfinished obelisk that you can see where they're cutting it out right it's still in the bedrock and this thing is massive and you go okay how the hell were they gonna move this thing i mean it's massive um so how did they move those things well that one wasn't moved because it looked like they never finished cutting it loose from the bedrock right but you see these massive stones i mean you know the the sphinx temple it has massive stones um menkari's temple massive stones and then you go all these other places like graham has documented yeah you know and this is kind of where graham and i were our work kind of complimented and now i think how he and i first connected was i'm not sure how he i'm not sure about the first connection but in any case what he kind of focused on was the evidence for something in terms of civilization and he was theorizing that there was a catastrophe right i was focusing on the other hand on the evidence for catastrophic events so his research and my research sort of complemented each other perfectly yeah yeah the the podcast that i did with you guys the first one was one of my favorite podcasts ever because it was such an ah-ha you know oh i see you know with graham's and it also it it helped graham's work so much because it gave a real like a context to like why this would have taken place right yeah and you know again like you said he was dismissed early on yeah mocked mocked yeah but it was not justified no because you know we've gotten locked into or mainstream academia has gotten locked into these models of history and they don't want to let go because yeah for many reasons and i think one of the reasons gets into actually into politics you know it has to do with our conception of who we are where we're at now um you know we're supposedly in the midst of the sixth great mass extinction right now that that we're causing and like you said earlier to recognize that there have been these gigantic catastrophes and mass extinction events in earth history it's not in any way to say well we just should have a free hand in doing anything or whatever right of course not at all although some people will interpret it that way you know um but the thing is is that that that we now have to recognize the reality that these events have happened and we have not been the perpetrators of them we have not been the perpetrators of these previous mass extinction events we've been the victims right yeah and so right now though the whole thing and it gets back to the global warming thing and and all of that is that you know and i don't really know if we want to get into that whole discussion because it's a worthy of several hours in itself but you know it's it's control you know it's and what we see now is with the whole covet thing and global warming we're seeing proponents of global warming saying that oh well hey if we lock people down into their homes they're not going to be driving cars if they're not driving cars they're not putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere hey what a great thing let's you know i mean when you look at the the net zero scenarios i mean i don't even want to get into that right now but if you get into and you begin to look at it you realize well they you know basically what they're going to do is they're going to essentially render us impotent they're going to render modern civilization impotent we're going to be if they implement these sort of net zero policies if someone of a yeah would it be a climate scientist or someone who would theorize that the way to do it is to make sure that people don't go anywhere that way they don't emit any carbon yes yeah so when you look at these global cooling events um like ice ages they seem far more terrifying than warming events and again this is not to justify right driving around cars that spew black smoke absolutely not right whatever we want to the earth but what we should really be scared of more is a cooling event than a warming event absolutely because again in in history basically testifies to to the truth of what you just said because warming periods again i've i've written and actually lectured on this quite extensively warming periods are usually periods of of prosperity because you have an extension of the the growing season you have um periods like if you go back to the medieval warming period which was roughly from 1000 ad to 1300 a.d this was the period where and when you get to eat to to europe and you go particularly to france take a tour and spend a week going and seeing some of the magnificent cathedrals and realizing when you're looking at these these these unbelievably complex structures um that would have taken for the whole phenomena you would have had to have hundreds of thousands of trained people working because you had stone cutters you had stone carvers you had sculptors you had glazers you had carpenters you had astronomers you had engineers they all had to be organized they all had to be fed and housed and clothed well you couldn't do that without surplus right that surplus we can now demonstrate and this is something that's pretty much for the most part pushed off the radar screen that the medieval warm period was a degree or two warmer than now and what you had was you had agricultural surpluses that made that period of prosperity possible it was preceded by what is called the dark ages uh cold period during this time it was very difficult because you had agricultural failures you had cold spells that would cause the uh they say that 536 to 540 a.d was the coldest four or five years of the last 2000 years and you had population decline you had increase of infant mortality you had um decrease in lifespan when the warmth came back into the world the sea ice retreated north now the vikings were able to sail across the northern seas iceland became populated became colonized vikings came to greenland and were able to farm on the west coast of greenland where it's now permafrost right in europe you had agricultural surpluses so you had a huge increase in population between 1000 a.d and about 11 30. you had this ability to undertake this tremendous enterprise of this magnificent glorious enterprise of cathedral building the climate of the medieval war period lasted until the late 1200s early 1300s and then it began to shift and became cold and it was the uh the first onset of what's called the little ice age and between about 13 13 right in there in about 1340 you had a succession of agricultural failures um which led to famine right that famine led to people being malnourished which made their immune systems weak and they now became susceptible to infectious diseases and it was around 1340 that the bubonic plague swept over europe because it was a result of the cold and of course right then at that point you see that between 1300 and 1340 that was the end of the cathedral building era you can find the same thing happen in the aftermath i said 536 to 540 a.d the bubonic play was a result of cold i mean it was it was it was a result of the fact that people were weak was one of the one of the factors probably the main factor but there was it was also like these pathogen-ridden fleas oh yeah rats and exactly but here's the thing all of these kind of things are going to be more devastating if you have a population that's susceptible and they're susceptible because they're malnourished because of the cold they're malnourished because they're not getting they're not getting enough nourishment they're not getting enough to eat so they're already compromised they're already compromised so what's catastrophic during global warming periods is it's catastrophic for people that are living on the coasts on the coasts because the coast the the ocean levels rise yeah i mean the social level has risen about and since the late 1800s the ocean level has risen eight inches but like when people are talking about global warming there's many things that they're concerned with but one of the things that concern was the cities like miami that are like uh in porous porous ground that are right on the coast like that that's going to go underwater in 20 years if if the ocean levels keep rising if they do yeah however i i'm a bit skeptical because uh i won't pull it up now but i could pull up and show you probably 500 articles on the importance of the sun in warming and cooling that have been mostly ignored in the ipcc's models and projections of of climate change and if we go into a another solar minimum like the maunder minimum or the spore a minimum um yeah we're in for decades of cold weather and we're going to see ice growing again and what would cause those minimums like what what causes those cold snaps well that's it's something internal to the sun it's the sun and the sun seems to have see when these global warming models were first being developed in the late 80s and early 90s we were just at the very beginning of deploying solar observing satellites and at that point the model was the solar constant so if the sun's radiant radiant output is not variable we can just ignore it it's not a factor however we now have like 30 years of in hand evidence that the sun is way more variable than was assumed 30 and 40 years ago that being the case yeah the sun would now have a much more important role to play because you know in the last 30 years we've had massive amounts of new data from solar satellites that have been observing the sun and so when the the computer models were first being devised in the early 90s and stuff the assumption was that the sun was not playing a role and so we don't need to look at the sun you eliminate all the natural variables until only carbon dioxide is left and that's pretty much where we're still at because by the time you get into the 2000s and it was becoming apparent that the sun was actually a much more important factor in climate change and had been acknowledged by that point it had already the whole scenario had already become entrenched and you now had huge amounts of money being poured in to that whole scenario i was reading about how vulnerable we are to solar flares yeah that is that's a terrifying thing because our grid our satellite systems our internet all of that yes we're we're so vulnerable to just a weird but very common glitch of the sun we are that has been documented in history like there have been times in history where the sun had a flare and it blew out communication devices right yes um let's see here was there something in the early 1800s yeah the uh the carrington event uh let's see here rodney carrington no uh i don't remember his name uh we'll just go through this really quick here um let's see in 2003 a flare was measured at x-28 but was likely even more powerful the sensors became overloaded under the explosive energy being measured it was quite literally off the charts solar flares are mostly harmless and don't pose much threat to humans on the surface of the earth what could cause some problems however are coronal mass ejections which are sometimes conflated with solar flares in popular parlance we'll jump down here a big blast in september 1859 a solar storm known as the carrington event named for astronomer richard carrington who observed the corresponding solar flare the day before struck earth causing widespread technological havoc even considering to comparatively primitive technology of the time the magnetic effects were so substantial the aurora normally seen at polar latitudes could be seen in the tropics whoa electricity from the storm flowed through the electrical lines of telegraphs overloading the circuits starting fires around the world and shocking nearby workers the global lines of communication were disrupted until the magnetic storm trickled out hours later interestingly some telegraph operators reported being able to send messages without the batteries attached using only the currents in the air holy [ __ ] um if a storm of that magnitude were to strike today the impact to technology could be catastrophic power lines could receive energy from the storm and spread it out because our power grid is interconnected a spike in one region could impact areas which might otherwise be less affected according to a nasa-funded national academy of sciences report from 2008 transformers would be damaged and the power outages would occur around the world radio and satellite communications could be knocked out resulting in a massive blackout without the benefit of being able to talk to one another now that would be pretty catastrophic but now we have this a signature of a cosmic ray increase in ad74 75 from tree rings in japan this was likely the result of a giant solar storm and um we don't need to go through all of this this is 774-775 yes a.d yes so what we're interested in is the conclusion down here with our present knowledge we cannot specify the cause of this event however we can say that an extremely energetic event occurred around our space environment in ad775 in the future other high resolution records such as beryllium-10 and nitrate data together with careful research of historical documentation around ad75 and further surveys of undetected supernova remnants this was probably a solar event so our sun yes causes so we get into another article here causes of the ad774 775 carbon 14 increase um talking about the carrington event such an event would cause great damage to modern technology and in view of recent confirmation of super flares on solar type stars this issues merits and this issue merits attention a carrington level event would be disastrous for electromagnetic technology causing widespread damage to satellites and transformers linking the power grid no assessment has been made of the technological effects of an event 20 times stronger which the 774 event was 20 times stronger than the carrington event and then there's also the possibility of hypernovas right like outside of our galaxy yes i think this is going to be more likely but yes so so what we're realizing again this is my point is we've learned a whole lot about the sun and that the sun is not necessarily the invariable star that it was assumed to be now we just talked about the effects of a carrington level event now he's asking the question uh no assessment has been made of the technological effects of an event 20 times stronger you know it's so funny because we talk about plato and you talk about plato's description of what atlantis must have been like and also this idea that they were trying to make sense of the catastrophic catastrophic forces of nature and and comet impacts and and all these different things and we look back on their limited understanding of the universe and the world and all the natural forces but we're kind of in a similar boat in comparison the way people are going to look back at us we just don't think about it because we're wrapped up in this timeline we are and we do have all this amazing technology like we talked about your ability to zoom in with your laptop and show the topographic features of this uh the landscape that indicates that it's been you know hit with all this water damage but we're so there's so much we don't know so much we don't know and so so much we're not prepared for and this is why i think it's so important that we actually look at our own past and realize that our ancestors weren't these primitive ignorant savages that we've assumed they were and that their legacy that's been handed down to us may turn out to be extremely valuable and trying to understand the big picture it also makes sense when you think about graham's research graham hancock's work when it makes sense that these people were very advanced in terms of their ability to grasp concepts and thoughts but they weren't as technologically advanced because they were the remnants of a civilization that had to start over from scratch or close to it yeah so really intelligent people that had to go without all of the knowledge and all the all of the creations of people from the past because most things have been wiped out yeah and this is what i think of as the real great reset that when these kind of events happen and civilization basically has to start over how many times do you think this has happened with human beings well i think if we look in the holocene it's probably happened half a dozen to ten times if we look at you know the bronze age collapse what's what's the cause there may have been volcanic and extraterrestrial it may you know uh exogenic means from the outside endogenic means from within and i think there's times the perfect storm is when you get a the the simultaneous uh effects of both there's some evidence now that would be suggesting that et events exigent events might actually be triggers for a terrestrial response if you have an impact like we know for example that there was enormous amounts of volcanism associated with the whole deglaciation phase right there was also very large earthquakes as the the ice mass is being transferred from the land back into the oceans you've got this tremendous mass transfer over the surface of the earth that leads to a significant terrestrial response which could be volcanism and earthquakes completely makes sense completely makes sense and there's empirical evidence to support that i mean just imagine what you're talking about any of those enormous um asteroids that are flying by earth if they slammed right into yellowstone in fact david alt who was a geologist um theorized like at least 20 some years ago that about 17 million years ago the the magma plume that's under yellowstone may have been caused by an impact of a of an iron asteroid punching through the crust and causing an upwelling it's called pressure relief melting that as long as you got this overlying cap but if you remove it like in the case of a hypervelocity impact it allows the upwelling and in fact the whole columbia basalt plateau that we were just looking at that is the outflow the basalt outflow from the magma plume that's now under yellowstone yeah so and there's correlations the the deck and traps in india correlate in age with the cretaceous tertiary impact of 66 million years ago that caused the extermination of the dinosaurs the siberian traps are associated with the permian triassic event of 245 million which may or may not have been caused by an impact i think it probably was but at that long ago it's hard to find the evidence but something degraded that was the greatest mass extinction in earth history 90 to 95 percent of all species terrestrial and marine went extinct very quickly about 245 million years ago the permian triassic and it was actually the transition from two of the great um uh eons in earth history from the uh the paleozoic to the mesozoic so the mesozoic was the great period of middle life which lasted from about 245 to 66 million and it was bookended by two of the great catastrophes in earth history now if either one of those kind of things happened today that's a wrap that's a wrap no more people unless we're living in space well i mean we're the descendants of moles right something like that lemurs something true thing yeah yeah yeah god it's just like these conversations make you feel so vulnerable i mean they're so fascinating and thrilling and i can see why you've been on this decades-long obsession with it but my god it's so humbling it's humbling but you know what i have confidence in our species in fact i think our species evolved out of the natural order of terrestrial life because there were the one species that can be sitting here having this conversation dinosaurs couldn't yeah but we could easily get wiped out and start from scratch and then yes we can species has to pick up the slack some lizard people you know you're right 45 million years from now but you see i guess my optimism comes from the fact that you and i are sitting here having this conversation ah well that's optimistic for us we came in we came about at a very interesting time yeah what's that famous chinese proverb may you live in interesting times yeah yeah which could be your cursor it might be a curse yeah that but that is where we're at we we live in interesting times i mean the mo it's also like the things that we took for granted that we thought were going to be here forever are now in full upheaval yeah well i think this is one of those times you know where things are shaking out very much so and uh i want to see us get back to being you know i'm of the mind i like the adventurous entrepreneurial spirit i can't abide by this oh we're going to get all offended because we're using the wrong pronouns or we're going to get triggered or whatever look we've got some huge things in front of us that we're going to have to contend with if we're going to have any kind of sustainable existence on this planet for generations to come and i think it's going to probably take a wake-up call but it's also the pressure that you're getting from these non-productive people that are trying to enforce like woke talk and things things along those lines that's they've chosen to try to control the thinking and behavior of other people rather than controlling their own personal creative output or their own personal uh success yeah and their own personal progress it's like it's what you concentrate on if you're concentrating constantly on trying to diminish other people's ability to express themselves and to try to control the way they express themselves like it's just it's just a it's a poor management of resources and a lack of understanding about your own issues with discipline and self-reflection and we're in the middle of that now because it's easy to do because of social media because you can express yourself so readily and easily through social media it's very tempting for people then they get wrapped up in these kind of social media exchanges with folks and it becomes an addictive part of your day and it leads you to be even less productive mm-hmm yeah i've i mean just you know you've been around long enough i've been around long enough to see how things have changed you know since i was a kid growing up you know my upbringing was rural minnesota winters are very harsh you worked your butt off everybody worked and nobody thought that that was exceptional everybody worked you have to in cold climates that's one thing about cold climates is people really value hard work and hard work ethic absolutely and i marveled at my dad my grandfather i thought god am i ever gonna be able to work as hard as those as those guys did you know my grandfather okay on my dad's side he came over from 16 at 16 years old from sweden on a cattle boat couldn't speak a word of english came here settled up in minnesota and started working and worked in a session door company 10 hours a day building window frames he would then get off work and he would go and he built a house now when you're in minnesota all houses have basements so he would get off work after 10 hours and he would work till dark hand digging the basement built this house married my grandmother moved her in and then immediately began building another house right next door by himself now i don't know i've done a lot of hard construction work so i know what's involved with that you know it's it's it can be extremely hard you know like my my father you know he would go my father and my grandfather when i'm a little kid they're working together they'd be out there working it's 20 20 degrees out 10 degrees out so cold and they're working outside here's what they would do they would have a kettle right they would build a fire have a kettle and they would put the nails in the kettle and heat up the nails so that then when they're handling the nails the nails were hot and would keep their hands from freezing now you know where are the men like that i mean they're still around but i i think that you know that kind of an attitude towards things seems to be diminishing yeah you know well because it's easy to survive yeah it's gotten too easy it's well i don't know if it's gotten too easy but it's gotten easy enough so that the path of uh least resistance becomes even more tempting to folks and by the path of least resistance the problem is you create resistance all around you you know and you create resistance for people that are trying to do their own thing and you want to like control the way people view the world and define the world and the language that they use and the way they behave and think right and and people are just oh it's almost like you're looking to get offended yeah well you remember i mean it's literally in the bible the meek shall inherit the earth and that that's literally what's happening do you think that's going to happen i don't know what's going to happen to the bold well i think the bold will be challenged to try to find new ways around this situation and i think also the meek will one day recognize that they really wish to be bold and that's where our best hope is our best hope is that we can educate people on the value of discipline and creativity and hard work and the satisfaction that comes with accomplishing goals and projects and also that social media communication is terrible for real world communication it's terrible for the human organism it's not the way we're supposed to communicate with each other we're supposed to communicate with each other eye to eye looking at each other a shake of a hand a hug we're supposed to be nice to each other yeah that's very rewarding and it feels great which which brings me to something i'd like to bring up i have been i've been really busy since we've last met and i've partnered with a new internet platform called howtube that is growing rapidly how tube how tube yeah and it's it's basically very much first amendment unfettered speech it'll be curated nazis a bunch of nazis right yeah a bunch of nazis exactly a bunch of nazi fans yeah right yeah our plan is to take over and accept the entire planet and but if you say that today people like oh first amendment free speech oh you're into free speech definitely into free speech yeah well free speech is [ __ ] dangerous yeah and the other thing that's coming together sort of as a counterpart to that is a group of fellow people that i've been in worked with over the years business you know i told you i built this restaurant yes the restaurant's been wildly successful some of the key people the the entrepreneurs and investors there we've come together we're looking at land we're going to build build a center and enter an institute a school whatever you want to call it um we're raising the funds right now and we're laying out the plans and because of exactly what you just said i think that education is a massive at this point it's a massive failure in in america i mean it's gone down the toilet and it's gotten so politically correct that every year the standards get lower and lower i have worked in education that was one of the things i did just because i felt it was so important back in the mid 90s i started organizing classes for kids that were being homeschooled and i ended up for 15 years organizing classes and we i over those 15 years i developed ideas that were not really that original and they were pretty obvious when you think about it but here's what i would do i mostly was was mostly mathematical based in science so like one year for example i had three boys we were doing a had a science class and we decided we were gonna wanted to do something really cool so we entered a science fair a national science fair contest against i think over three thousand teams there was something like 13 000 students in this science fair we came up with a concept one of the boys in the in the in the threesome there who were part of my homeschool class that i had organized came up he he was a uh he had a uh uh what was his uh he had a a a physical uh uh problem he he was god i don't remember what it was but they had him on steroids that stunted his growth and on several occasions he had strokes and he had to be taken to the hospital emergency in in in class one day he said you know the worst thing about he was nine years old he said the worst thing about going to the hospital was the gurney ride yeah i can't believe that so he says i've been thinking he says i've been reading about how they have these magnetically elevated trains in japan and he says could we apply that to a technology for gurneys hospital gurners nine when he thought this was nine years old and i said let's see what we can do we built a model me and three of him and two other boys entered the science fair contest and we won second place nationally so i had i had students that i took from very beginning level geometry up through the lower levels of calculus who then went on to to do excel excellent academic achievement have become doctors scientists you know i just in fact ran into one of them um just a few days ago while i was in atlanta he little boy had been in my class like 20 years ago and now he's launched he's an entrepreneur of a tech company that he's just launched right anyways out of this i realized that you know the way the thing that i came to believe was that modern education has has got so many things wrong with it one the stratification of modern education like this is to me artificial you know if you look at traditional societies when a kid particularly i can speak from the boy's point of view when a boy got to adolescent at that point you were thought of as a young man and you start you were integrated now into adult society and you were expected to start behaving as an adult right well you know we don't really do that anymore it's like what we see so much coming now i think out even to college age kids is this like extended infantilism you know they're they come out and they're still you know look you're supposed to go to college and be exposed to challenging ideas yes exposed to different points of view you know instead they're coming out you know and they're like uh we don't want you know whoever to come onto campus we don't want um jordan peterson to come onto campus because he's going to expose us to ideas that we don't we're scared of you know i think we need to one of the first things we need to do is like move away from that so what i would do is i would get a class like let's say we're going to have a class in geometry i would take kids out to the building site and i would show them here's how we're using geometry to lay out this building this house and we're and and the exact things we just learned in the classroom look at how we're applying those we'd get to a a lesson on trigonometry i would take them out to the job site and i would say look here's how we're using trigonometry to design this complicated roof we would go back to the classroom and i would have the kids as a as a problem as an exercise figuring out what are the angles of the cuts what are the compound miters we need to to to to cut from the lumber so it all can fit together like pieces of a puzzle and then we'd go back out to the job site and they would see how it's all going together right i would take um in fact uh and and you know one of the other things that's happened is that you know at the early 20th century 80 percent of the american population was agricultural and rural 20 was urban now those statistics have flipped exactly i've known kids that were in college that had never seen the milky way never seen the milky way couldn't couldn't couldn't find the north star if their life depended on it but i think that that's part of the deficiency that needs to be corrected and so i'll just show you a couple of quick things here um while we still have some time left are you going to have an online aspect to this absolutely that's the how to so it's two dimensions there's two two there's the hard you know the what we say the hard facility the hardware and the software the software is going to be how to and we're actually just now putting up and promoting the whole concept of this idea of this school so like here was the first here was the first first class i ever did 1995 randall's first hands-on geometry class for young people yep over 120 kids tutored in classes over the next 15 years it is critically important to develop alternatives to the authoritarian hierarchical monopolistic system of indoctrination that now usurps the function of authentic education this is how it started see and then then i would take take kids out we would do geology and nature science out in nature so this group of kids are just taken out we've been studying uh what happens to streams after storms oh so i did this i had probably 100 kids that i took out on these kinds of field trips like it says here getting students out of the classroom into the real world of nature is vitally important to any system of education and promotes the psychological well-being of students so these were home school kids these were all homeschool kids yes and here our homeschool trio beats 324 teams this is little mark that little nine-year-old and very sadly about two years later he passed away from his condition tore me up tore me and this is one thing when i got into this i did not expect that i was going to be bonding with these kids i've lost three of them one was killed in a car accident another one had problems and he hung himself and so it was just you know that was something when i went into this i did not expect that that was going to be an element that i was going to get close to these kids and then grieve over their passing i really little mark there mark mcginnis he was 12 here he was nine when he actually came up with the idea and then a couple of years later we began to actually hey let's take that idea and go you know see if we can develop enter a science fair contest and we did like we got second place nationally and then so scientists discover a major lasting benefit of growing up outside the city and i'll just jump to this you can actually see that for kids exposed to nature it actually affects structural changes in their brain that kids that are growing up in a strictly urban environment now are being deprived of that and studies are now showing that kids that are exposed regularly to nature grow up with far less psychological problems lower levels of of divorce suicide drug addiction etc etc and so i think that this is the direction we have to move to start healing what has gone wrong with our society do you think that maybe we've overlooked a component of development for human beings that it's not just a choice whether or not you're around nature but it's actually a necessity absolutely i totally think that it's something like a vitamin or something yes yes and i consider myself extremely fortunate that i was able to grow up in a rural environment and be exposed to me i mean my boyhood growing up was hiking camping swimming canoeing horseback riding when i got old enough to work we worked on the neighbors farms so i had that whole opportunity to see farm life and how all of that came together and i look back on that now and i go god i i took that for granted back then but now when i look back i go boy i was so fortunate to have that upbringing you know and and and i think god more kids young people need to have that kind of an experience growing up so this whole thing that we're doing that with this group of of very incredible people that i've been working with for some now oh five to ten years some of them longer than that are are coming together around these ideas and i don't know if you know chris martinson or um does peak prosperity um he'd be a good he'd um yeah i mean some some great people um that are intimately involved in in this and going to help raise money for the first prototype we're looking at land in eastern tennessee as one place i'm also looking at land in arizona i've got some people out there that i've been working with who are very much about trying to make something like this happen um to create a prototype that could so look here's a place and see another thing that i believe is that and i did this in my classes i said okay you pay for your your tuition for your kid as long as there's room i encouraged parents to come in and participate because i really believe that this whole artificial stratification by age is is detrimental and you need to like this horizontal stratification to me again is is debilitating and we need to have like a vertical integration so that i found this in my home school classes that i would sometimes have kids from the range from 10 to say 15 or 16. and i noticed there was a natural dynamic that emerged the older kids would naturally become mentors to the younger kids you see and we'd have adults in there and pretty soon it was almost like this you know my generation when we came of age it was the generation gap have you ever heard that term yes yeah well i was my generation you know coming of age the baby boom generation we were the first to have that right well what brought that about what brought that about was was the the way that american education evolved because prior to world war ii most most schools in america were the one room schoolhouse coming out of world war ii is when you begin to have these large institutionalized um consolidation of of schools like uh it really accelerated in the 50s my father was in a one-room schoolhouse until he got to high school like in 1944 i think it was 43 at that point they had just built a brand new high school that had like 800 kids which was exceptional at that point but when you go back and you look at it what you see is the schools got bigger and bigger and bigger and the bigger they got the more impersonal they got now when i started homeschooling i was working with some of the teachers in the waldorf system now here's what they do they come in the waldorf kids come in at their the kindergarten age and they'll have a teacher who stays with them all the way up until through middle school now you have a small class of 10 or 15 kids you have a single teacher think about the the the dynamic in the relationship that's that teacher is going to know those kids i found that when i was teaching courses in math and i would have six seven eight kids if one of them wasn't getting it i knew instantly and i never left anybody behind because we didn't have to and i also found that oh if this child was not getting it this student over here was more than eager to show to jump in there and say oh and help them i found that that was also something very important and my memory and you've probably had the same experience my memory was you know when i was particularly middle school bullying was rampant yeah uh you know i got my first year in middle school i got bullied mercilessly and then eighth grade when i went to eighth grade i finally i had gone through adolescence and i'd also spent this that summer between seventh and eighth grade working on the farm so what we did on the farm was hauling in hay bales now we'd have a 80 acres of alfalfa it would get cut and you know hay bales back in those days and so you go out there and you'd have to lift the hay bales up onto the wagon and then the wagon another one of the other boys would drive the wagon sometimes one of the girls on the farm girls would be driving the tractor go back to the barn unload that and then you go back out you do this all day so by the end of the summer i had gotten way stronger right i had calluses on my hands from doing that so i went back to eighth grade and the same guy remember he started right in bullying me and um about a month into school we were in gym class together i come out and i'm i've just got my underwear on he comes out and starts whipping me with a wet towel and uh i kind of lost it and didn't realize you know he was still his dominance of me was at that point purely psychological but it shocked me how easily i wept his ass but it was totally because i'd spent the summer primarily doing this hard physical work yeah the hardest farmer strength is a real thing yeah absolutely it is so um but yeah so you know but bullyism was very endemic to that whole stratification because what i observed was the bullies were always the kids the boys primarily that have been held back right so particularly in middle school there's a big difference older yeah you're a year older two years older you're bigger but you're also got this insecurity about you know this feeling of inferiority because now you're been placed in your you know your peers are these younger kids it's just almost like an open invitation to become a bully it's also they're probably psychologically damaged which is why they're not excelling at school in the first place yes but what i'm probably getting bullied at home that's right but see i particularly like with math i found that everybody for math particularly you gotta see people i i don't know how many times i heard like a parent would come to me and say well you know little mark thinks he's no good at math he just he's you know he's been in public school and you know he's fallen way behind and i said yeah that's what happens that's what happened to me in eighth grade i fell way behind and i got behind a year right well i got so i work with mark you know and we get them in a different environment and then he'd come to me and say mr carlson i didn't know i liked math you know i have letters from both kids and parents saying yeah i didn't even know i liked math now i love math nice the reason is is because you go back to square one and you explain something and you take it step by step and what happens with math particularly you get left behind you know you go to public school they've got here's what the teacher's got this here's what we've got to cover this this this and this if you fall behind tough [ __ ] yeah you're never going to catch up you're never going to catch up what's the point right what a waste of time yeah my problem was i was a little bit on the upper end of the scale so i just got bored to tears and i would tune out because i got so bored you know well i think that's a giant problem with the large classes where they just there's no way they can concentrate on so many kids right their education falls by the wayside because of it that's exactly right yeah and so this is part of what you know and if you're interested i will keep you in the loop yeah yeah i would love to hear about this and i think one thing that's solely lacking sorely lacking um in school is the concept that there's jobs that are available outside of what we think of as mainstream occupations like there's there's not like i'm not encouraging kids to become social media influencers i'm not encouraging kids to become tick talkers or youtubers but right how much money those [ __ ] people make like if you're encouraging people to become lawyers like at what point in time do you encourage them to play video games professionally because there's a lot of [ __ ] money in playing video games and i'm not saying they should do that but i'm saying there's a like a disdain for even becoming a stand-up comedian like i remember when i was thinking about being comedian no one encouraged me like maybe a couple of my friends but outs outside of that like my parents didn't encourage me no one thought it was a good idea they were like what are the odds you're gonna make it like this is this is the perspective because there's no real structure in terms of someone showing you and teaching you and it's not a class you can take where you can graduate and then eventually you go on to you know apprentice as you know with a a you know more successful comedian there's so many different things that a person could do creatively with their life in terms of art music whatever you want to do there's a lot of different avenues for life that people are thriving in but schools never encourage these things and they look at these kids that are their class clowns or the loudmouths or the ones that don't want to pay attention and they just assume that kid's [ __ ] and that's what i assumed about my own self i would see that and i would go well obviously i'm not that intelligent and i'm not that curious but that wasn't what the case was it was just i wasn't interested in what they were selling right the way they were teaching it was not interesting to me i didn't like the teachers particularly there's so many of them that were under-motivated they they didn't enjoy it yeah they weren't particularly good at persuading you to be enthusiastic about these subjects as they were teaching did you have any teachers though that were good yeah yeah a few i had a spanish teacher that was great he was a lot of fun he made he made spanish interesting yeah i had an english teacher that was really fun and she gave you perspectives and thoughts on life itself that was just different than the way most and everybody would talk about her like you got to get i forget her name i think it was mrs hansen but everybody wanted to get her class because she was interesting yeah and she wasn't even that interesting you know but she was interesting enough right and she was kind and she was friendly and she wasn't you know this authoritarian and she gave you this idea that class could be something other than this monotonous grind yeah [ __ ] sand sandwich that everybody else was serving yeah it was just so dry and boring oh yeah well i remember my first my eighth grade geometry class was so boring um it was just you know the proofs yeah and you know all of that and it was only you know years later that i found out how really interesting geometry could be especially when i started building and i go wow this is interesting then of course i just got into geometry just as a area of interest itself and that's when i discovered things like sacred geometry and you know when we talk about the pyramids and things like that you know and and how geometry was used through the ages and it was just unbelievably fascinating and at some point be fun to have a have a discussion just about that yeah we'd love to do that yeah that would be that next time we'll just lay off the catastrophic events and only talk about geometry yeah we have to maybe tie it in a little bit a little bit okay a little bit because actually there is some connections here so we've already done three hours you want to um wrap this up we should probably wrap it up okay i mean i you know i'm not i'm heading back to atlanta tuesday morning all right so uh sunday we've got this reservation to uh ranger's gonna guide us to canyon lake gorge we've got some extra spaces i don't know if you've got any opening on sunday if you wanted to jump in for how far away is that it's about halfway to san antonio maybe an hour or so let's talk afterwards i have a show sunday night i don't know if i'm gonna be able to do that okay we could get you back i think we'll see we'll see you let me see what i can do if not um um but to let people know if they want to get more into your research or read uh any of this stuff or watch any of those videos particularly the videos that we were talking about earlier on atlantis where it was the best place randall carlson.com randall thought i'd make it easy that's pretty easy yeah i just spent 500 bucks to buy my name but did you yeah who had it another one yeah there was another randall carlson yeah i had to buy joe rogan.com oh did you yeah yeah i finally just had to go and off the guy to no i didn't do that i 500 bucks is what it cost me it's a good deal it was a good deal um listen man i appreciate you very much i appreciate what you do it's it's always very fascinating and intriguing to talk to you and uh i'm just glad you're out there i'm having a good life you know it's good feeling good we have the ups and downs as you well know uh last time i saw you actually i was in the audience when you were in atlanta how long ago was that what's it been like what three years ago probably something like something like that was that the tabernacle no no i don't it wasn't that where else did you oh i don't remember the only thing i remember was i was laughing my ass off well that's great yeah i actually thought that god he's got i don't remember what it was but you had me going good careful that's the goal that's the goal yeah well thank you very much randall and uh we'll do this again oh absolutely because i got a lot more to show you man it'll happen another time yeah great deal thanks brother you're welcome [Music]