[Music] in here today it must be a special day don't never show up oh come one we come to one session per season [Music] welcome back mind the game we're back baby opening bottles you know it we uh have the privilege of one of the greatest players in NBA history here today no question katie welcome appreciate you thanks appreciate you appreciate you yes sir yes sir i think I mean while I'm opening this wine I think the best way to start is like um guys got anything you guys want to talk about maybe so we're getting up yeah you might you think I got enough wine this is the place to do this will be the place well just started there you know no I mean for for uh there we go poor poor that but uh you know LeBron is the greatest the the leaning scoreer of all time in NBA history but I think even you would admit there's things about Kevin's game you wish you had yeah for sure one of the most smoothest most efficient scores we've maybe we've ever had like is there anyone that can do it at every level uh not to the capacity he's done it and I was reading the stat earlier the fact that he hasn't I don't want to speak like you're not here but I you're so great i I like to do it sometimes thank you brother appreciate K he hasn't shot under 50% since like 2012 and in a league that um doesn't talk about efficiency enough cuz I'm one of those efficiency guys like I I I hate going out there just chucking up shots or you know looking at the box score and I was maybe 8 for 23 or or 9 for 25 or 6 for 18 like you're going to have those nights for sure you know but for the majority of the season like being efficient you know is something I've always prided myself on and this guy is when it comes to three-level score three-pointers mid-range uh below below the Gary Payeyton area below the Malone area and finishing it's um we haven't we haven't had a score um as equipped as as KD in our league ever appreciate that ever yeah i mean add to it pick and roll with the ball without the ball uh catch and go transition with the ball catch and shoot off the move pin downs nail and you know literally there isn't I I don't think a spot an action or a style of play that you couldn't be yourself be efficient in and is that something like Katie like you over the years obviously I've seen you continue to get better and like you're better with your game like you know when you first came in you wasn't much of a pick and roll guy you know um just a natural score you know catching goals always had to bounce to your game obviously but I feel like over the last like you know five to seven years you know you start handing the ball picking rolls making decisions making reads you know and still being able to be the efficient ass scorer the dynamic scorer you've been like Was was that conscientious with you or just like you know I want to continue to expand my game that was the main thing wanting to expand my game um early on when I came into the league my first if I could think about my first 20 games in the league I felt like I was just catching and shooting a lot of it was catch and shoot threes catch and shoot mid-range i was playing fast so you felt it was it was happening so quick you just felt comfortable rising up that's all I that's that was the that was my game just shooting you know what I'm saying at that point so that's what I you know fell back on when nothing else work i get stopped if you know I'm not strong enough yet guy hold me up i'm just going to shoot over you most and then I didn't shoot well my first two months three months maybe my first six months of the season i think I started to figure out the pace of the game understanding the pick and roll i was getting more pin downs and when I was coming off pick and rolls early in the season I was just shooting and I'm looking at my teammates faces i'm like damn he was open you know what I'm saying so like I just started to understand my teammates more and the game more and I wanted to be trusted in every situation on the offensive side of the ball coach say I I didn't I didn't want a coach to come back to the huddle steve no side you wanted on I don't it's your team coach the team whatever side you want to call this player on I got to be ready to come off this on either angle and shoot from either side so I never like being limited that way so I was wanting the coach to just have a use me in any way that he wanted me anywhere on the floor yeah so I I didn't want him to feel limited with me so that was always been my thing i think uh it's funny you say that i was one of the one of the conversations we had previously about um coming to the sideline and a and a and a coach is afraid to flip flip the play because he know that certain guys can't run it on the opposite side right right right and and I I I attest to that like that's and you can get in practice too like we can have we can run the same play over and over and over and if the coach say okay let's run it from the the left side we've been running from the right side guys like three dudes are lost three guys like where what are we doing you know then the main guy then the main cheers cheers absolutely appreciate you and then it's like as the best player or the most efficient scorer or the you who got the best matchup whoever you call him to play for it's just like when coach says "Oh he can't we can't do this because he not strong going left or he can't go right." That just always did something to me and it was tough for me to go left sometimes and pull up for the jump shot especially early on my first few years and I think I started to understand the footwork the balance of what it takes to shoot going right from inside the paint free throw line extended college three NBA three you know so and and that's why in that small detail is the reason I think my game is you know rounded you prefer going left i actually now I do but you started going right but this is this is actually that's interesting to me right because you you it bothered you that you had one side that was weaker than the other but statistically he prefer and prolific going left but actually statistically as good or better going right now sometimes that's because people know you want to go left yeah exactly but it also proves like it's just a habit to go left you just prefer I used to play that way too i play out of a hesy to the left i could still do it to the right but I was just comfortable do you feel like you got more leverage in your body going left for some reason like you know this is a weird one to say but like when I was in the 10th grade I sprain my left ankle as a right-handed player left-handed jumper i never I didn't want to stop playing so I played limping around for six months that ankle's never quite been the same so I think like pushing off my right became my facto that makes sense and so I could do the rhythm going to the right but you know to take it one step further about me but when I went to Phoenix in 2004 that summer I was like I can't play this way anymore where I just go all the way left and pull up right and it bothered me so I spent that summer saying like I have to figure this movement pattern out like left hard pull up and I took it took a summer of like every day trying to get the footwork the balance the the stability that sounds like you kind of did that early in your career yeah i mean it's crazy you said that cuz when I got to Golden State and we started working out more you told me that and it's always stuck you know stuck in my mind that like yeah the defense know if you going left most of the time you going all the way to the cup so that one two dribble pull up going left has been u a staple for me but it's more so about the the pickup of the ball you know what I'm saying going left like sometimes I try to pick the ball up right here like my normal shot they swiping that down instead of we do we did this a lot too i start you know changing my pickups and I'm shooting the ball this way now so a lot of that stuff is just adjustments to how the def how physical the defense was and and you know me just wanting to get shots off but this this you make it sound simple the reason he's able to do that like take the ball up in different areas is because especially at your size your balance is so good your feet are so good that's where it all starts with he gets on balance so like it he still has legs under him so it doesn't matter if he brings it up normal he brings it up here he brings it up there he's always still got legs to get under his shot and get that thing up in the air that's like those are the little bits that people don't understand that you have to work every day getting down getting deeper getting in a position to have your legs under you yeah i mean just being able to understand the power that you have under you and your legs and and and letting that flow through your whole body to get to your jump shot it take a while for you to understand how much power you really have but the lower you play the harder you dribble the ball back up into your pocket all that small stuff matters if you want to be a good shooter right and it makes sense i mean all the detail that you're talking about is you know when we talk about efficiency you know and there's only been a small select few guys to do this NBA history the the 9050 40 club or 50 40 90 however you want to break it down you've done it twice you've done it twice and it was actually 10 years apart from when you did it i think the first time you did it was in 13 and I believe the last time was 23 yep um but you want to know who's actually the leader in the 50 40 90 club i think it's this guy what was it four four and I feel like I missed like three you know what that's funny we were talking about We were talking about it my first year with the Lakers here at the end i was [ __ ] 100 years old but uh no offense but um but uh I I think I missed it by a layup like a one field goal man and that stings every time and I think earlier in my career I missed it like I shot 897 from the line and you think back it's like one or two free throws that's for a whole season that's crazy that's crazy so I don't think about the four times doing it i think about the two times you know right there how many time How many more times were you close to to that you can remember off the top i think it was another time in Brooklyn where I had I was like 39% from the three going into the last game i had to make like four out of six i was like one for eight i was just man and I was thinking about it too i wanted it so bad and it's just like that's that's another part of the mental game you can get in your own way yeah for sure thinking too much about stuff like that so yeah i remember that one time in Brooklyn i think it was another time in OKC um where I think it was the free throws I might have missed i like 88 87 for the year and I free throws for a shooter of your caliber the free throws drives you crazy man it drives you crazy we talked I think we might have talked I was like 84 this year like 83 82 at one point this year i was just and that's that's been bothering me mentally kick the ball in the gym when he miss more than anything man like I I being over being over 90% is is key for me but so mid8s is just not it yeah I I can relate with that what's your career high you had from the free throw line yeah I think I was career high this year i was almost at 80 i was like 796 or something i'm rounding my off 80 but the three ball was at what my career for my three was 41 I think last year i think last year I was in 40 definitely second half of your career your three balls going yeah yeah yeah man got just being more like efficient just being more efficient with it too like I think your mini too this year stood out even more i feel like you always hit it but I think you went to it more this year and um you shot it from deeper this year yeah you think so yeah I think so but it's something I still I I to be honest it's something I've haven't been able to master in my career um I work on it um improved a lot though improved yeah it's But like you know like when you talk about going left and then going right and being efficient like you know going left with my midi I feel really effective with that i feel like I got great balance with it i feel like you know like you're talking about the speed of how you pick the ball up after it comes off the ground and you know where the pocket is you know what I'm saying you know how exactly how to get it back to that pocket you know and I know I can go literally I can go straight up and down going left i can I can fade out you know it's just all the powers all the power is over there going right has always been a little like you know sometimes my balance is off sometimes I don't know if I should fade on the shot or if I should go straight up and down and it's always kind of [ __ ] with me mentally even though I work on all of them you know but when you you know obviously when you get into the frey you you know you you don't want the you don't want the defense to dictate what you want to do obviously but it's like getting that that that pocket that you were saying like you know the one person that that is unbelievable going right with his pocket no matter where it is like Chris Paul like he he can almost shoot yeah he can he can do he do all this without even dribbling and keep it and then just and just he can shoot from triple threat or off the dribble and it also gives him that natural little fade i can relate to you need that few little inches to get it over the Right right right right [Music] this episode is sponsored in part by American Express american Express knows that for an obsessive basketball fan like me the playoffs mean a lot of travel time between broadcasting games and catching up with old teammates I'm on the road almost every week from Boston to LA and everywhere in between after all these years I've learned that the journey is as important as the destination that's why I've always tried to find a spot to stretch grab a coffee and get my mind right before heading over to the arena fortunately there's a card that makes every part of that journey better with MX Platinum you earn five times membership rewards points on prepaid hotels and flights booked through mxtravel.com on up to $500,000 on flight purchases per year plus you get access to the Centurion Lounge which makes travel that much more enjoyable that's the powerful backing of American Express terms apply for more information visit americanexpress.com/travel after many years in the game both onc court and off I know all about highstakes showdowns that's why I'm hooked on Michael Kryton's Binary on Audible from the creator of Jurassic Park and er comes this classic techno thriller about a radical aiming to bring down the government with a deadly nerve gas the cat and mouse game between the terrorist and a determined State Department agent had me on the edge of my seat in the ride over here but Audible isn't just about heartpounding thrillers from electrifying suspense and daring quests to spine tingling horror and romance in far-off realms Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command you'll find gripping titles that keep you guessing exclusive Audible originals and bestsellers that hook you from the first minute ready for your next great adventure sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com/game and discover what lies beyond the edge of your seat do you feel like you was if you take mid-range you settling like throughout your career yeah for sure for sure i mean especially my I mean okay my first 14 15 years like there was no need for me to take a lot of mid-range bro like I saw a clip of him when I was doing research for this take off from like I don't know man it was like near the free throw line and it like the velocity he was traveling yeah I seen what in the world was that in Portland that also comes from like my little league coach too like my little league coach and high school coach they always don't settle like stop settling like and then you got people in the crowd who obviously don't know basketball like we know basketball and they tell you to dunk everything everything dunk everything get to the hole dunk everything by the way it's people in NBA crowds that do that still dunk everything that's They get disappointed when you Yeah yeah so you know but I felt like putting pressure you know when I entered the league you know in 03 you know it was um I definitely shot a little bit more mid-range my my rookie year because no spacing there was no spacing exactly i was I was coming off floppies like my first basket ever scored in the NBA is a is off a floppy action to the corner floppy is hilarious fade to the corner shooting a jumper from the short corner like I feel like that first stint in Cleveland like the Jay was and cuz it was hitting net all net a lot of your Jays was hitting all net and then you had the confidence to shoot the like you said you had to you had to take them shots but once you got to um Miami I just feel like the floor was so much space with B shooting the three yeah you have more shooters around just like why settle when like when we played y'all I'm like yeah he can I don't want him to get give him this midi but like there's no way I could just stop this man what's you know what I'm saying get to that cupum you know so I understand it's a mental that mental part of like all right what do I do especially when you got so much responsibility as scorers as initiators it's it's tough to figure out exactly you know how you going to approach it sometimes but that that that goes to both of you being about efficiency Right you don't feel good if you have a high volume night and didn't make shots that's why you guys prepare the way you prepare take care but I mean there there's a stat here 2021-22 we were together 58% from 3 to 10 feet 58% from 10 to 16 feet 16 feet to the three-point line 71% unless the Googles are wrong crazy 71% from 16 to three like that's I mean that's insane i know i didn't even realize but 10 to 16 at the That's not That's not in an empty gym right right right right like that that's a lot of homework it's it's a few guys in our league that's a few guys not a lot it's a few guys in our league that you believe every time they shoot the ball is going right and and Katie is one of those guys that's a lot of pressure boy no it is it is it is it's it's listen like when you shoot the ball when Steph shoot the ball Steph get a look you just you don't think it's going you don't think he's going to miss i think Shay is at that point too shay's at that point too especially in the midies like every time he shoot I don't think it's going in yeah especially he's [ __ ] his rhythm right now is so good quietly in the mid-range i think Kawhi's like that i was about to say Kawhi like that too kawhai's like that for sure kawhai's like that too for sure i don't care if he miss 10 in a row he every shot next one's Yeah especially in that mid-range area even even his three his threes his threes is I think his mid-range is above his threes but he's still a good shooter too yeah yeah but that mid-range area I mean it's certain guys that raise up and get to their spot you know exactly that they planned on doing that shay one of those guys in today's league i even like um throughout the play I even like what Julius Randle did from the mid-range this playoffs you know best I've seen him play that's the best I see him shoot the ball confidence he has so I think the the mid-range game is coming back for So that's a big old big old conversation right there you know because analytics all these analytic departments right now is saying layups and threes free throws layups and threes but we're watching the MVP of our league right now pretty much dominating through the mid-range dominating you know so you know and in the postseason where the game changes physicality ramps up you're allowed to bump and grab and hold a little bit more you know like ultimately it's like get to the spot get to your spot and get a bucket you you know you don't have time to be thinking about okay well if I don't shoot this three you know the analytic department coming downstairs the next day saying okay well we took too many twos like this is we or die you know again I and and and I understand the balance between having to get up a lot of threes but I believe you can't tell you Luca or Austin Reeves don't play your game and take those shots in the mid-range or just just be you certain guys though for sure you know what I'm saying who need to rely on the system of the team who need who can't create on their own who can't create those shots on their own they need to shoot more threes so I remember we was in a game against Cleveland and George's knee he like to talk a lot of I love Georgees but he he talked a lot of and he telling me like I hit a couple mid-ranges in a row we like 15 like you need to shoot more threes i said "No these dudes around me need to shoot more threes i need to play my game." You know what I'm saying because if I get into this paint and cuz y'all going to collapse on this mid-range and I kick out to one of them I'm expecting them to shoot the three not dribble into a mid-range like that don't make no sense but the best players on the team you can't turn them into You're exactly right so it we did a whole episode on this that the mid-range has never been more important it's just has to come from the right dudes right you the court is spaced now by the role players exactly what do you think they're trying to take away layup so the star has to be able to make mid-range shots or else the team's not going to be able to score in a playoff situation they have to be able to loosen the defense takes with there so I think the analytics community would agree with that too it's really just we don't want players X Y and Z taking I mean because the mid-range I believe is if you can't find a good shot we should look for the good shots early the threes attack the paint attack the paint try to get layups try to get threes but when it's 5 to 6 seconds on a clock get a ball to the best player and if he shoot a mid-range at that point then he shoot a mid-range but we not going to waste the clock trying to look for a three two seconds on the clock and we giving it to No Dorian Finny Smith with two seconds on the clock to make a three that's not that's not what we or or Royce O'Neal that's not I mean they can hit it for sure but that's not sustainable offense for us going forward oops so another thing what you're also saying is like you pass up a good mid-range shot to get a worse Exactly shot right so there's a balance there to be exactly so I want to I want to touch on the topic because you know you've been in in a lot of different situations like you come into the league you know like you said when you was in Seattle early on and then with you know your early days you said I was just shooting a bunch of catch and shoot two catch and shoot threes you know that was my game that's what I was comfortable with the league was a little bit more physical a lot of twos yeah a lot of twos running floppy action things of that nature and obviously you grew into your own you know in OKC days you know you start to you know this is how I'm going to make my mark you know MVP of the league you doing your things you know how was the transition though when you went to Golden State to now playing in their you know split game action you know let's get the ball moving you still having the freedom to do what the hell you do but was it how much of a you know adjustment was it for you it was pretty easy because up until let's say James got traded for so 2013 to 2016 i feel like those were the only years I was playing like point forward in my whole life rest of the time I'm playing off my teammates i might mix up a little get off the rebound and push and make a play but for the most part I've been playing off my teammates up until then you know to that whole time period so it was easy for me to come off a pin down it's hard for me to have to dribble through three or four guys and pull up over two dudes with a fade away like I want like you said we want to be efficient playing off your teammate that's the easiest way to be efficient i was getting more back door cuts more transition layups on top of the ISOs on top of the catch and shoot threes so my game was way more well-rounded in scoring and it was easier and I you know way more efficient that way but I always knew how to play with my teammates play off my teammates and the art of scoring is getting the easy points i always knew that especially in transition it's interesting you think about that uh Harden trade you know it was kind of a decision of the salary cap since Serge kind of a stretch four five James Harden and James goes on to be one of the best players of all time um how do you feel looking back like I know it's easy now to be like well yeah we we lost James Harden it's a different era i mean I think after a team that I think we over I think we exceeded expectations with that team and and and when you reach the finals and you go through a run like that so quick I don't think a GM or owner was ready for that you know so you expecting a team that's 22 23 to you know so you sped up the timeline you sped up the timeline all of us you know each indiv individual player serge you didn't know like he came out of nowhere he came out here being the best shot blocker in the league i'm averaging 30 at 20 21 years old russell is 22 years old as a all-star james sixman at 20 like so we exceeded the timeline so they wasn't ready for that and I don't believe that's just my theory i don't know exactly what Sam was thinking or the owner but my theory is I don't think they were ready exactly for us to be contenders every year right so since then since we reached the finals you supposed to upgrade and fine-tune and make changes around instead of you can't just pull the one of the key figures of your team you know off the team and expect us to continue continue what we was doing so I I just think they were kind of shocked at how fast we how good we got so fast and you know sometimes you get confused and then on top of that Sam Pressie was probably what 30 something years old was young everybody was young trying to figure stuff out trying to understand what this landscape was it was just Yeah it was just But it was it was Yeah it was too fast it was just We were ahead of our time everything happened too quickly and um Yeah cuz you think about it like you went from like coming league being like I can't do anything i'm just going to jump rise up and shoot to second in MVP voting at 21 come on man first team on NBA at 21 like uh doing things at 20 2021 not just me but everybody on our team on smaller different skills sure um even our coaches he was Scott Brooks that was his first he was the coach of the year you know what I'm saying so everybody was doing things i didn't And Scott was our interim so I didn't you know probably didn't think that Scott was going to be there that long after being the interim you know so we all exceeded expectations and um you need a lot you know you got to spend money if you want to if you want to be in contention every year i don't think they was ready for that just yet so but that prepared them for what they got now i was just going to say right he's getting a chance to run it back he's got this incredible plan he's been obviously one of the top GMs in the league for a while but he's got this war chest too and people I think are like you hear it around the deadline people like just make a big trade and he's like man here's my I'd like to get your thoughts on this uh OKC wins this year it's a problem for the league yeah it is it's a problem for the league those guys are all young dudes like there's few teams that would have to make big upgrades to compete on a year-to-year basis with this team for the next four five six seven eight years yeah the only OKC you got to worry about is the the cap are they going the second apron are they going to go into the apron and all that stuff true but even with that they have so many picks they can try to use that versatility to stay under the second apron and still be just got a lot of right i mean but it comes down to two two guys like for real i mean three guys the rest of these dudes they can be interchangeable you know like Shay's going to be he going to be that guy for the rest of his career what is Jayla Williams and Chat going to be you know what I'm saying of course they playing great right now but those three guys got to keep I mean Shay's already at that level but those two guys got to keep getting better i mean that's just the the facts of it will just be more consistent right and I think I think they will but that's really what it is for them i mean the c the salary c I think they'll pay for sure yeah they know they do yeah they they know they got a great team and something special ahead of them but more than anything those two guys got to keep stepping up and become perennial allstars doubt no doubt allstars every year without the the benefit of having a good team right the 70 win team gets the allars right you just got to be allstar flat out because you're better than everybody yeah and also to the last thing too I mean yeah they're going to be great for years to come but also too like you know the the now you go from you know doing the hunting to now being the hunted as well if they take if they win at all it's a different dynamic that as well i mean we've both been there understanding like you know once you win it you know because you've been trying to get there so you know everything is geared to we want to be the next champion we want to be the next champion and then when you get there now everybody else is all 29 teams is now like how do we dethrone them so it's a different mindset as well and to see let's see how they if they was to win it you know don't want to you know count I completely agree but on the flip side they give away games currently like they have a great chance to win they've given away games they won't give away in the future I don't think no I I I think they going to continue to hunt everybody i mean that's what they identity has been you think that's their landscape that's what they identity since you know what I'm saying this has been cultivating since Shay got traded there for PG all them dudes been there dor I mean Jaylen W came a couple years after that but he been there you know what I'm saying so those guys got a solid core of dudes and they foundation comes from we coming after y'all so you know and I like the coach's mentality he don't say he don't he be over there chilling he don't say nothing no he just he be over there chilling stoic individual i I just think they got a a beautiful thing going and I think that what we created early on in OKC has just prepared everybody in OKC for what this is like you know what I'm saying we've all learned from that situation second time around yeah it's just and it's been it's been nine 10 years almost so they've been through different iterations of the Thunder melo CH PG then you got CP you know so they've been through different iterations with great players so and they understand developing a great player from a 19-year-old until being draft draft trading form developing develop so they done been through everything being a even though we were the Seattle Sonics we were expansion franchise so you know you just they understand everything from building up from the ground up to where they are now so I I mean we all could see this coming this team yeah amazing squad [Music] just like waiting for the perfect moment to take that game-winning shot Prime Day has always been my favorite time to make the call on those big purchases and this year it's going to be even bigger we're taking four full days of amazing deals on everything you've been wanting this Prime Day will be the perfect moment to upgrade your home gym transform your kitchen or dive into a new hobby you've been thinking about i've been on the hunt for a lumbar support that my buddy LeBron James told me to get an extra firm and with all these deals coming up there's never been a better time to make that happen whether you're gearing up for summer projects or wanting to treat yourself to something special Prime Day is the time to do it 4 days of incredible deals and endless possibilities shop Prime Day July 8th through 11th trust me you don't want to miss this [Music] we had a talk recently about uh where the game's going a little bit love to hear your perspective but the finals to me is a little bit of a a look into possibilities okc defensively you know pack the paint team long athletes keep you out of the rim flying back out at shooters with athleticism switchable players you know on the other hand you have Indiana who plays like this beautiful chaos where from the free throw line up there's there's blur screens there's pitches guard to guard pitches there's flares while an action is going 21 on this side flare on that side all this kind of madness you know we we've become accustomed to trying to keep the floor space they're flying guys in and out to try to move the help tell me a little bit about where you think the game's going from a profile of player but also like strategically beside both sides of the ball yeah I think strategically as a team we've come into a organized random basketball i always say Jazz play off each other on both ends cuz you look at OKC that's right on their defense i watched Shay or let's say let's say Jayla Williams get beat off the dribble and then hit Lou Dort in the corner he's just you know in regular help but if he get beat off that dribble he coming over to take that drive and then here come Jayla Williams to win straight corner so they do that all around the court and then they on top of that they got they got good one-on-one defense but they are in tandem regardless without even being a scheme is just natural random at that end reading each other exactly not every team can do it no it's hard to do that which is the same thing that Indie is doing offensively exactly right and that's that's how I feel the game is flowing because Indie will I haven't all I've seen is 77 from them and then the like you said quick action pitch up get it back slip out big set of screen but when it's when it's bringing out the net inbounding the ball walking it up all I really seen from them is 77 and then driving kick pick and pop get to the blender just get to the blender early so I think that's where the league is going Whereas like you're not about to run three pin down like this guy not about to run from the wing under three pin downs underneath the right baseline while nobody else moving and you go like the defense not let anyone not let you do that it's got to be random it has to be practice though every day that random that's what fans I don't think understand why aren't they running anything well if they run they're switching everything you're back to ice exactly right okay so how do they know to do well they we do it five on every day talk through it see on the film what did you decision here yeah and I think it's it's it's great coaching too like you know Rick knows his personnel his personnel how his team is built is not isolation guys that can beat you off the bounce every possession or it's not going to be PPR is going to be so low you know he knows that if we can get one trigger which is now creates the blender now that works for our team right you know it's not going to be run a 77 okay now they didn't switched okay everybody get flat let me back up back up back up and then try to go ISO yeah we know Reese Tyrese can can can beat the five off the dribble we know that Benedict Mat we know he can do it from time to time but for their team for them for their PPR to be 120 like we've been seeing it's not going to be a steady diet of isolation no matter which no matter which action they run so like you saying the blur screens the touch screens the flare screens on the opposite side the pitch you know we're running the DHO slip out you know the short rolls to the pops of Miles Turner like they they're And it's it is so not random right everyone thinks it's practice it's practice but it's just like it's it's hard to organize organized chaos it's not it's not scripted in the game but in practice like you could tell that they on the same page it's almost like nonverbal and you see and you know being in the finals a lot of times you not talking a lot to your teammates you know what you're supposed to be doing you out there really focused on being the best that you can and being at your highest level these guys don't feel like they having communic you know dialogue obviously but they not walking each other through everything they just reading off of you know reading react off of one another and that's from good coaching good practicing holding each other accountable throughout the season watching film like all that stuff matters that the outside world you know does doesn't understand they just like well what are they doing it's chaos katie and and Book and I just roll the balls out y'all just go hoop or Luca and y'all supposed to just beat everybody cuz y'all just got that talent it's like this is you got to cultivate a lot of stuff from day one of training camp on who you want to be and you can tell that these both of these teams been doing that for two three years they're for sure i was gonna say a big underrated part of their offensive identity is they they change hands so quick they create mismatches off the change hands fast even on a make exactly they Seakum's down on a guard oh go to the post oh we got the center up on on Hie or bring him into the action what I also like is like if Alli gets the center they don't always spread they keep playing next guy comes in they're not afraid they want you to make mistakes they wanted to keep moving because I think it's it slows them down and now they're not playing their game if they say get spread let me ice you always can go but we're not going to hold the game up to go and I mean just to piggy back what you just said Steve like you know you get the five switched on to you know Howie knows he can beat him you know he knows he has the advantage I would say you know but how many times is the five guarding the ball when a pick and roll happens exactly he don't know how to look over that pick and roll he doesn't know what's going on you you you run past him touch him on the hip he's like "What the hell's going on?" They [ __ ] up the confusion and we saw that in the Knicks series we saw a lot with Cat they was doing that and Cat would just back up and nobody's on the ball and Hie's shooting a three and to add to it they'll bring even the the three in like you know it might be Anobi a great defender but he's got Cat so he they might just blur screen with he's like "Well I gotta help." Right right right and then Niss standing wide over wide open because they're just creating confusion they're going to If you are not aware on the defensive side of the ball they're going to attack you from the first possession all the way to the last and I think that's the new brand of ball it's like who is the weak guy out here and it's not just the guy that can't guard oneonone no more it's like you can't guard a pick and roll you don't know how to guard a pin down we're attacking every single part of your horrible low man yeah exactly you know we're going to want pick and rolls opposite of you so you be the tag guy but we know you ain't going to tag everything the league is about exposing now yeah and but I would also add to it like we were exposing the guy on the ball now I think these teams are starting to expose the help by moving the help we'll cut and replace we'll blur screen we'll flare on the weak side so the help's moving instead of the help we like on offensively we've liked for a period of time here just to know where the guys are just stay space be your spots now they're getting smarter they're getting better at scheming they're in the gaps they're rotating they're reading off each other so then when you start moving around whose help is that exactly right so I think that's the era we're starting to get into offensively would you say defenses have gotten better more creative no not in a sense because I I don't want to say more creative because it's a switch league now everyone wants to switch um and to be honest the only way that you could just like switch is you have to you have to have the personnel to do it you know but the I think the creativity is happening like you know and and New York did a good job of this like sometimes when when Jaylen Brunson was getting switched off on Seakum they was doing a great job of kicking him out you know especially post yeah on the on the post i think that's been communicated a lot better like kicking a small guy out telling him to go weak side corner or find somebody on the weak side um because there's not too many guys that can actually make the pass once the switch happens he rolls him down and he can fire it weak side to get the shot there's not many guys in our league that can make that so I think as far as the creativity in that uh range um has gotten better but defense has always boiled down to just like [ __ ] talking yeah right you can make up a lot of [ __ ] by just talking through it too i would almost flip it it's It's not the defense maybe defense have involved now offensive have challenged them more challenge them more these days new solution playing fast shooting the ball from farther out like you know you watch clips from 15 20 years ago like almost everybody's inside the three-point line everybody yeah 15 20 years ago [ __ ] I was in the league i thought you was about to say some [ __ ] about the '9s only one of us was down with the 90s that team that 90s bled into the early 2000s that was the same type of probably one three-point shooter on every team bro by way if then like if that's why that's why Sacramento was so damn good they had a lot early on ahead of their time yeah they were ahead of their time i mean they bid was shooting a three stoyaka was shooting a three bobby Jackson come off the bench shooting a three vlad from time to time would pop brad Brad Miller would pop you know C Web used to pop a little bit that's that's that's what made them so damn dynamic cuz they was so far ahead of their time and then they showed up and F and when when they showed up totally just changed the game well Nelly too and Dallas y'all played that way y'all play fast like to play fast but he also liked to play two or three minutes off the elbow because in the elbow the weak side is in a bind right like and that's why we play delay now the balls you know a lot of five out but on the elbow if you're the weak side he can still hit your guy he always knew that pressure on you so if you want to come that's a one pass wherever it's on the wing that's it's got to be a swing swing or a skip so I think he used to like like try to distort the defense like that but even those Suns teams like we think about him now played so fast and shot a bunch of threes not true not true we I can't remember what year we beat the Spurs in San Antonio to tie the series 2-2 i think it might have been the game Robert Ory bought body checked me the thing i think if it was that game we we made five threes five and we're supposed to be a runand gun team right like we should have shot 35 threes right 40 threes so we look back with tinted glasses right like it's all it's a slow evolution now I feel like things are starting to change quickly it's like the tech industry almost there so much information now and it's all personnel too but just like the tech industries some people try it and they can't even get to there they can't get to that capacity they don't have the resources they don't you got to have the personnel in our league too as much as it's a copycat league and as much we talk about three-point shooting whatever the case may be you still like you're if you're a team shooting 28% from the three-point line throughout the season that don't mean take more threes yeah straight up straight up like what are we doing i mean I mean but that I mean that's the solution that's what they tell that's what they I get it more threes if we shooting 40 28 threes in the on the on the game that's not enough no it's not enough right oh no it ain't enough you know what I'm saying they get mad if you if you if you below 35 40 man yeah so do you think the profile of players change like I'm been thinking I'm like I don't know if the 62 and under guard is is is at a premium no more as a starter maybe as a backup but you have to be uh we just talked about this the last NASA it's gotten compressed it has right it's compressed it's that like either Donovan Mitchell Drew Holiday 63 Lou Dor or it's Nah you got to be you can't get picked on defense that's the thing cuz we playing such a pick on game that they will really literally if you can't guard they will bring you up every play and six foot 61 and you're not a bulldog like a DaVon Mitchell drew Holidays mhm on the defensive side or you not an offense that's flat out sant like Kyrie where you can score on dudes seven feet easily in ISO then I just can't see it what you think like yeah like um like for me it's I'm interested like Darius Garland like he's an amazing basketball player I don't I think his value right like I'm shock like we don't we don't talk about him as like this amazing like cuz the era like if he played in any other era I think he would have been like his value would be through the roof like he's that skilled he's water bug he's got every shot he can playmake but there's an era where it's like okay we also have to help that dude out defensively all the time yeah i mean like that's an example for me cuz he's such a good basketball player right so tough i mean it's just Yeah he he is and it's like but the the defensive side of the ball is where you know people were attacking if you want a chance to beat the Cleveland Cavaliers you are going at Darius Garland most of the time on the defensive side that's not saying that he going to get scored on every time but sometimes he's just small he's just he's 6'1 6'2 sometimes and when you got your nowadays is def I mean offenses are giving the ball to their best player i don't care if you're 69 610 if you out on that perimeter Paulo up there bring up Darius Garland and if you don't have that built in but Cleveland did a good job of building in that helper but if you don't have that around those th those guards at that size it's going to be tough cuz now five guys outside the three-point line if you played 10 15 years ago and beyond six you know six out of 10 dudes are inside the three-point line you got help right there right that makes defense easier for everybody it's harder for some of the best defenders to guard up with all of this space i heard you say on on with JJ I think on a podcast that it was harder to get 30 at the start of your career just because of spacing it definitely man it was I mean you got two dudes at the box bunch of power forwards in the league most of the time the whole league running floppy that's the go-to set so we got four guys or eight guys inside the three-point line and all they do was lift upper body up top not a game they weren't working on their legs back then man it's all just pushing and pushing and shoving bro it's all strong man like gold's gym [Music] [Applause] when you think back to our time in Brooklyn what do you think of [Music] [Applause] tell them about the three-point line tweet you know some people are saying take the corner three out so like that would be just now you just disrespecting the whole game of basketball you know that you you when the when the three-point line curve it just goes out of bounds and there's no and there's no three line long twos and there's no and there's no three-point line at all so you catch it in the corner long two this is a super long two you and the dunker you can imagine analytics when we have play defense where it be like three guys on the force the long force the law too nobody's covering the no covers the long two right there destroy the game thanks for watching Mind the Game if you enjoyed the show please subscribe for more content