[Music] thank you hello everyone and welcome to today's session today we are honored to host Dr Gibbs who is a first generation college student and the first in her family to become an academic physician Dr Gibbs earned her Bachelor's in chemistry at the University of Delaware she then earned her medical degree and completed residency training at Stanford Medicine Dr Gibbs currently serves as professor professor of radiation oncology a professor of neurosurgery and an associate dean of MD admissions at Stanford School of Medicine Dr Gibbs has served in several educational leadership roles with the institution and is nationally a champion of diversity Equity inclusion and belonging thank you very much for joining us today Dr Gibbs thank you very much Madeline really great to be here and are we going to introduce others or I'm going to introduce uh uh Vanessa who I know and then Mr Chavez uh Mr Chavez is the director of admission at Stanford he has a long career in admissions both at Stanford UC Riverside and he also has a Masters in Education from Harvard and he has been at Stanford how long have you been at Stanford now okay on and off uh since 1999 perfect and uh and Vanessa is a graduate of Santa Rosa Junior College and transferred to UC Berkeley and took a two-year uh Gap uh before applied to medical school and she uh was ecstatic that she added to Stanford and so far loves it and so Vanessa yes thank you so much I'm always so happy to partner and talk with um pre-med CC students um and excited to answer any questions and join Dr Gibbs here and Albert of course great so shall we get started yes ma'am perfect so um as was mentioned I'm Dr Iris Gibbs I am currently the dean of Admissions and I um I really would like to just continue to engage with you all I know this is a webinar um but please feel free to send your questions and I believe that um between Joven and and Nava and Madeline we'll get some of the questions answered but if if one is really um uh uh is a question that's sort of commonly coming through then perhaps we can answer that uh more more live um so I do have a few slides but I really would like to sort of engage with what are the kinds of questions that students who are pursuing this pathway particularly the unique pathway from a community college um through to Medical um to a medical degree so let me first um you know share some slides I don't want to make this too formal but I will share with you so hopefully you all will see my slides um this is really a Cadre of some of our students from Stanford medicine who have taken that same path so my take-home message at the very end of the day is going to be that it is entirely possible to take this pathway and um be able to matriculate to a a school like Stanford um and um move it forward okay great and so most of the times we'll ask and we're not in an interactive um audience here um about reflecting on why you feel like you want to go to medical school and to really um I I always show this because there are a range of of um of careers in healthcare in addition to a physician role that some people can also think about and consider um but um you know really thinking about what are those kinds of qualities that make for a good physician and what are those things that you may be needing to prepare if you're choosing this route of medicine um this one I always show because it's like everything at this stage and certainly for me I was a first generation you know college graduate uh and and to go to college and so the pathway seemed quite you know convoluted um to me and um you know it might even seem like a maze but through these kinds of discussions typically we we believe that you should be able to get a better sense of what that looks like and so hopefully chart your way through through this maze to be able to understand better that this this course of study and so thinking about those qualities um I think it's really important that one starts All Along The Journey with what I call a professional identity formation we work a lot on that with our students and that's why I'm here at Stanford we have this right from the beginning of this sort of mentorship and advisement and and collaboration and coaching um through what we call Educators for care they are helping our students from the very beginning to continue and think about that professional identity formation but I think it can begin even much earlier than that um that on this journey as you're thinking about who it is that you want to become think about what those qualities are that make for a good doctor because I will tell you at the end of the day that's what we're actually selecting for um so if one thinks about what what may be essential qualities now these this is not an all-inclusive list but these are things that we think about um that um this journey really takes a lot of tenacity and determination you'll hear about Vanessa's wonderful Journey um here uh in a little bit um and so uh one can't really give up pretty too easily on this pathway um there may be some fits and start but um that kind of tenacity and determination is essential um and the the kind of resilience that is is needed in your final career choice um will be nurtured through uh through this portion of your journey as well um and obviously a genuine concern and interest in people I say this because um many of you all um actually all of you all are smart right and so um you may do well on tests you may not do well on tests you may be have been told by your family that you're really you know quite smart and intelligent but what um sort of differentiates the medical pathway from other Pathways in which smart people may pursue is there is this sacred intersection and intersect with of a patient and a doctor that's really unique and so that understanding and interest in people is actually quite important and this portion is oftentimes assessed through those kinds of humanistic activities that you may be involved in as you're putting together your portfolio as you're you know gathering this portfolio to Medicine oftentimes it can sometimes look like a check box and some of the some of those may be pursued like a checkbox but just know that one of the reasons why we want people to be volunteering in clinical settings is to be able to assess for themselves even whether or not they have that um intrinsic interest in people of course there's a strong communication skills that is that is absolutely vital everything that we do with patients is that communication of sometimes complex ideas making them more more more simple or making sure that people really are able to feel comfortable sharing their uh deepest feelings about what they're going through in their personal health journey and so that strong communication skills picking up on not just verbal cues but also these non-verbal cues that patients May sometimes give us and so being able to understand this pretty early is an important skill obviously the ability to think critically and to solve problems that's kind of what we do all day every day as Physicians and so these are those kinds of um of essential qualities that we think are really important um but I think that uh uh Vanessa will elaborate on this a little bit more and that is how long this journey is um and at each stop you are being evaluated again and again you start off graduating high school then I'm becoming uh an undergraduate student and in that undergraduate student many of you all who are on this call have chosen to start at a community college and that one's a great starting point because oftentimes that one may be the time period where you're able to really explore and get a sense of of whether or not you want to proceed on proceed on this journey but that one the the jump from um uh uh Community College to undergraduate can sometimes be one of the more daunting portions of of the trajectory and so I am always impressed with individuals who have made that journey and have done well during their undergraduate studies and they've shown real real fortitude I I know that that's a unique quality I I know that I see in almost all of our students who have who have taken that pathway and once you get to medical school you're being evaluated yes yeah and again with um and it's almost like probably drinking from a fire hose at first and I know that Vanessa's in her first uh first quarter and um it's like drinking from a fire hose and you're like okay I thought I knew a lot um from your undergraduate studies um and your pre-health studies but you're going to be learning even even more but you develop this um friendship and camaraderie with other students that really help you along on that Journey once you're done with that you get to choose a specialty of Interest or areas of primary care and then that can be anywhere between three and um seven or more years Fellowship training can also be on top of that another two um two or more more years but all of us ultimately are always lifelong Learners and so we're always engaged in further board certification and what we call continuing medical studies so if you thought that your educational Journey really stopped with medical school I'm here to really inform you that this is a pathway of lifelong learning when we think about what are those characteristics of successful applicants this um this slide here is not meant for anyone to dissuade themselves away from this journey right so I always tell folks when you look at this sometimes it'll be like oh my gosh the average you know GPA is more than what I currently have or you know or the MCAT scores it seem to be you know quite high but I I always like to show this not so much on the left hand side of the screen that was really what the operations of of the central application process amcas deals with and that is you know usually over 50 000 applicants each year and when you see this number that says that like um less than half of those are either enrolled or accepted I don't want you all to think of this as something that should dissuade you either right that all I'm seeing here is let's make sure that you're you're prepared third you're most prepared with information okay and so um a couple other points I always like to point out is that many of these metric based things have a range so even though an average is let's say here 3.61 that's a range so a range might mean that there are folks who have lower numbers and then there may be folks with higher numbers and that with our embracing of holistic review we are really wanting to think about you individually and what your journey looks like and what's the context of those metrics so really not wanting to look at just metrics alone and we want you to also be able to see in yourself that there's more that you can give that's really beyond that and on the right hand side um you know speaking to the metrics here and you can see that of the people who actually enroll you see you can see that full range so one doesn't necessarily have to get this 528 which is the highest score um there is something about some of the individuals who might be scoring lower than the average that is so compelling that medical schools want the students here so I think I'm always thinking about how you can uniquely contribute and to connect in with your individual passion and not just simply doing a check box speaking of the check box you see here on the bottom there are a number of things that successful applicants are doing with their time obviously they're taking rigorous coursework on that to show that they can handle the rigors of a medical school education but they're also spending time in research labs and I hope that Vanessa tells us a little bit about the research that she's done um in community service hours so all those are things that will be we come to almost expect from individuals through this journey ultimately when you're deciding on medical schools the ones to which you wish to apply or see yourself most aligned with um I hope that you remember to write this down I want you to think about investing um in learning a little bit more about the schools and and their mission statement every medical school is thinking about attacking the issues around health and improving health and by using different kinds of strategies and so here at Stanford though our main goal really our overall program goal is really obviously to inspire our students to become these leaders but our mission here as an institution is to be a research intest of medical school that improves Health through values of leadership and diversity and collaboration and Innovation to forward those missions around patient care Education and Research and so there are other medical schools whose mission might be to you know solve the issues of of primary care disparities in in particular communities like rural community and that one's a really really wonderful Mission and so if your passion is aligned with that mission that one may be a school that you wish to put on your on your list but I always return to our mission because what we will absolutely be looking for is people who are trying to solve some of these problems and so individuals who have engaged themselves in problem solving and that way we mean getting involved in some kind of scholarship or research project to show us that you have that kind of Acumen and that you've shown leadership skills this is a great picture I love this picture of our um our class that has just entered on just this this cycle just maybe a month or so ago or two months ago now um you will probably already have heard that this process is long it starts with the amcas primary application which is a central repository that you will fill out applications for um and it will go to all of the schools that you apply there are some notable exceptions in that like States like Texas has their own application process where students can apply essentially to both um but most schools are affiliated with at least the MD programs are affiliated with the amcas application and so that's what I'll um I I will focus on of course there are do schools that have a different application process but similar so these are all of the the various aspects of the application and so it's a long process um so um this means every single part of this is pulling together years of data and not just simply arriving at a point and saying oh I think I'll apply to medical school um your biographical information or things that are really Beyond just um you know which neighborhood you came from or or or which state you were born in it's they really delve into much more than that and then of course your academic and schools that you attended the kind of course work you kind of want to get a sense of um what not only the course of study and at this point I'll emphasize that virtually any course of study can open the doors towards medicine even um non-science um Majors but one does still need to prove some Acumen with regard to some of the scientific um um you know foundations and so the MCAT ends up being that sort of normalizing a factor even if you studied English literature but you've you've taken the Preparatory courses to show that you have Acumen and chemistry or you know or physics or other um bio on biological sciences um that one's um the the tool that says hey you know what that person's probably going to do just fine your essays really are go at the heart of your own personal Journey this is my point where I need to emphasize that you need to be you um you need to also be able to tell be able to tell your story in a really coherent way so most of our students tell us that a good um just um personal essay will take the better part of six months to write and it's going to take many many years to uh you know to develop these experiences from which you can pull to to is to make a really compelling essay the experiences are the things that I've just talked to you about ranging from you know research shadowing scribing medical exposures uh and volunteer work and Leadership that is really part and parcel of your entire application and at the end of the day you will compile all of this but much of this will be corroborated by people who know you best and and that's where the letters of recommendation come from and so I know there's some institutions will say who write these committee letters and they require that students select a particular type of science Professor or others so this is one reason why it's really important that when you're engaged in your undergraduate studies that you are connecting well with others who can can see this view so if you're you know a little on the quiet side find ways that you can get a little bit more um uh attention and visibility through some of the smaller group exercises so that um there is this ability to more genuinely write a letter of support so it's not one or two lines that says oh this person was in my class and they got an A or B right and so you want someone to be able to really corroborate some of the journey and some of the experiences that you've had so that's where the letters of recommendation fall into play um I mentioned that this is very long and for us it's long as well because even after that application is completed then we will invite applicants to provide even more individualized questions on subjects that are really important to us at Stanford and each School typically provides those supplemental application Stanford may be a little bit unique compared to other medical schools in that we tend to offer supplemental application to all applicants unless you outright do not um satisfy our criteria and the only Criterion that is considered at that stage is if you've already gone to medical school before in that one we don't accept transfers and so that one is really the only Criterion that would keep someone typically from not getting a from from getting a supplemental application um so that it is important for us to read every single application no matter how High the score is no matter how low the score is and to be able to holistically assess um each applicant for these um uh these aspects of the application and we know that applications um for to medical school and the supplemental application can be costly our supplemental fee is a hundred dollars but we try to align our waivers of our supplemental application fee with the waivers that amcas has provided to students we do understand that um sometimes there may be a gap um uh just by virtue of of the fact that amcas may focus on um uh on certain criteria to make that assessment and so those who may not and who feel like they may be need a um fee waiver they can always request one and we will make some assessment as well um even for those applicants who may not have qualified for a fee waiver through amcas and that's typically related to our um our International students okay um you'll hear a lot more about this um from other folks along your journey about how the MCAT has shifted over the years certainly since the years that I was a medical student um and it really emphasized you taking a wide range of courseworks that that are Beyond um the the basic Sciences uh and it involves integrating various pieces of knowledge as well um I talked to you about the holistic review I won't I'll go through it in more detail except to say that um what this means is that schools are using a wide range of information about you to try to put your um your whole picture into context and oftentimes that's putting your metrics into the context of your experiences and of course we're all looking towards achieving excellence so in a final word um I'll just state that this journey is is more of a marathon and not a Sprint so please pace yourself um and developing this portfolio takes many many years um and it's also important for you to recognize how unique you are um and to align with um what what why you got onto this journey what keeps you motivated and passionate about this and I think a lot of the other part of the story will fill in um definitely get outside of your box and and um and engage actively in your world that will help you with in great measure with this entire part of the journey so with that I'm just gonna I'm gonna stop my share I feel like I've been speaking quite a long time and would be happy to answer any questions and to give time for yeah for um Vanessa thank you so this is one this is one question that somebody asked and I'm gonna let Vanessa answer this one uh do you have to be a Stanford undergraduate or do your Opera uh to get accepted to Stanford Med and Vanessa where did you graduate from yeah so I went to Santa Rosa Junior College and then I transferred to UC Berkeley and then I took yeah two Gap years or maybe even three um and then I I don't remember anymore but um and then I ended up here so you do not need to be a Stanford undergrad and we have a question about shadowing um how many shadowing hours does Stanford typically look for in applicants so I will just speak to to all of these things then which I do know that some schools will have students focus on charting a certain number of hours we're talking about um charting a certain experience that fully informs you or helps you to be informed on whether or not this pathway is right for you I don't we don't have minimum numbers I do think that there are schools that do ask for certain minimum numbers of hours and I think it's with the idea that you've engaged well enough to be able to come sober minded into um you know to to medicine and that you've had the adequate exposures but we don't have any minimum number of hours can I quickly add to that I know we have a ton of questions but just uh quickly I'll go over just my journey and how that worked so um my I was born and raised in Sonoma County my parents were immigrants no higher than a high school education from Mexico and so I had no idea what careers were out there what it meant to go to college and so for me medical I had medical school isn't like really something I was thinking about until later on when I really knew that that was an option and so for me it was a lot of exploration I didn't know there were check boxes so again I was looking at at one point I was looking at robotics I was looking at public health and eventually and just looking back at this whole application process it really makes you reflect and put these puzzle pieces together and you find out once you go like going into this journey there is nothing else you'd rather do and that was um for me just through that exploration and just not again not trying to do any check boxes because I didn't know there were check boxes but just because of pure interest wanting to go into a hospital and discovering I loved being with patients and shadowing Physicians because I was just interested and curious I think that's where later on in interviews and in the application that I was able to show that uh passion and that like compassion for this field and for hopefully my future patients and so I just wanted to share that where it was a blessing in disguise to have not know what this process was going to look like early on another question that has been coming up um a couple of times is how does Stanford view students who have degrees and decide later to pursue a do-it-yourself postback at the community college level I'll have Vanessa take that uh sorry what was the question again I got a chat message um it was how does Stanford view students who have taken a postback at the community college level okay um so I do believe that so in my class I did not do a post back I did um research during my Gap years um but we have my class we have a ride we have people that come in with degrees who didn't take any time off who took time off like myself and um either you know worked in uh like a financial space and um people like me who took time to do more research and so and who did post facts and so I think um it really depends and maybe Albert or Dr Gibbs can um help here with admissions perspective but I think I see this variety and I think we all just offer like I just are you unique experiences again and I think it isn't looked I want to maybe just start by you know this notion that Community College or post back is is less than is is is not true um I I know people perceive that because it's not the ideal of having you know excellent grades or whatnot but just as Vanessa described you know there's certainly many ways that you can uh improve your application presumably maybe if you now there are two reasons why people take a post back right maybe because they didn't do so well but what Vanessa described what she did is research you know spending time you know I think Dr Gibbs emphasized you know that the leadership so just let's just start with stop thinking about hey I went to Community College I'm at a disadvantage just you move forward you know and that's all there is it we certainly have students that have gone to Community College and end up in medical school so that's not that's not a thing I guess let's just focus on the things that that we've talked about you know really being an advocate really being engaged in and Dr Gibbs said something that you're passionate about you're trying to really address that's what you should be doing the the coursework the metrics is like you know if you were to print out the application you know between the all the essays and the letters of recommendation and and whatnot you know it's like this much quantity right the metrics are like this right it's like a small sliver that just gives us an indication that you can handle the the rigors of court of the coursework but it's all the other things that are going to set you apart that really tell us this is someone who's going to be uh someone that will will really contribute to the class and to the field yeah we we do understand that there are many reasons why individuals may take um a post-baccalaureate studies um and we differentiate those who have gone to through a Community College route like what Vanessa mentioned where kind of After High School or sometime after that you study there and then transferred to a um four-year and probably applied to be able to make that transfer um we that one's different from someone who number one took some community colleges during high school just to supplement their applications or those who decided that after they graduated undergraduate took some Community College courses as a um you know to take their prerequisites um and so um you know when one takes this path and you let's say you decide to do a post back back studies to be able to really pull together some of the coursework that may have been missing because we understand very very clearly that this journey can you know you may be missing courses maybe it wasn't even offered at certain places this journey requires a lot of proactivity on your part so we do know some people may wish to do those post-back studies in order to make sure they cohesively get that information together but what what we do see from time to time is you know someone who may take this study because they're like oh I want to improve my GPA and that's what um Albert is speaking of those individuals who may say like oh you know I just really want to do this to improve my GPA and if they don't enhance the other parts of the portfolio and focus solely on that they may improve the GPA but if nothing else is is helping the application they may find themselves in a situation where they don't get into Medical School despite um you know using those studies to to enhance their um you know uh their studies um and so I would say if you do it for that reason make sure you're filling out those other aspects of the application um as well with with really robust experiences that highlight leadership and um and Independence and things of that nature foreign and then we have a question that I think Vanessa will probably be able to answer best which is um is it possible for medical students to meet with faculty members outside of the classroom yes so um outside of the classroom there is lots of office hours and um we get what's called e4cs We're paired with um basically mentors that will follow you throughout your four plus years and they are there for you whenever you can email them text them you go to dinners with them and I really feel that I've already have a community of just faculty members and and not all so for me a health um Health disparities and advocacy is super important and I've met so many extremely compassionate um faculty members and doctors here already who I just want to continue to connect with and I hope to continue to talk to so yes you'll have time to talk to faculty here I I saw a question that was here a couple of times about um the MD PhD and then there was also another question about the whether or not you guys are going to have a um a pa um uh series and I I don't know whether or not you're going to do that but I when I talk about health care there are many different ways in which we can uh uh add to careers in healthcare and one of the important things about our students is they actually learn alongside many of those other health professionals and um one of the programs is our physician assistance program where our medical students take a good number probably a quarter at least of their coursework together with the the PA students and so you're learning in an interdisciplinary environment all the way um all the way through and to the question on MD PhD many schools may have an active medical scientist training program and that one's um usually funded in part um by federal funds but other schools may also offer a MD PhD that's not supported let's say for those sorts of funds I would say the robust programs that have that Federal funding also have to meet certain criteria to be to be um you know to be able to be available and so I would certainly seek out those types of programs because sometimes people will tie funding together to kind of and then if it falls through then you're in a seven year program and you want to make sure that there are some um uh some sort of General guarantees along the pathways as long as you're meeting Milestones but this pathway of the MD PhD absolutely is one that is not for the faint-hearted and it's definitely for individuals who really want to get in-depth um exposures to scholarship and research in a variety of different areas now every program is different but Stanford's program is mainly focused on those individuals studying sort of Bio um uh biomedical kinds of of studies so if you want to do an mdpsd in in the humanities we could offer that here but probably not under the umbrella of our mstp program so if you have other questions on that um we'd be more than happy to connect to you with our medical scientist training program and we also I want to say that we have another program that sort of bridges between those who are MD who want to do some research with that and the that pathway that gives MD plus PhD I will tell you the vast majority of Stanford students whether they do that MD PhD or not will be engaged in in-depth research so we have this other pathway towards becoming a physician scientist that's called our physician scientist training program and with that one there is a potential pathway of five to six years that could lead to getting a master's degree and um and uh as a as a shorter Pathway to becoming a physician a physician scientist um I will mention at this point that for many people they might say like well I want to get the PHD um there's probably at least two or three of our major researchers I mean more than two or three of our major researchers who have an MD and do not have a PhD and among them are a few of our Nobel Prize lawyers so it is entirely possible to pursue this pathway of becoming a physician scientist with or without a PhD okay I hope that answers your question so just to add this is yes we'll have the PA program I think Stanford and um USC's in the spring sometime I don't know the exact date but we'll post it and since we're talking about programs and we have been describing the emphasis on scholarship you know we and post-bac programs we actually have a post-bac program as well that is in its first year right now it's called part of the reach initiative and I will post a link to to that it's I just I'm sorry I just posted the link okay thanks because that one is it's a different emphasis unlike post-backs that are emphasizing coursework this one is specifically uh having students engage in in research really for either one or two year duration and in in also attractively it's funded so you get paid to do this it's not a program where you pay to be in the post back so uh thanks for posting that to them yeah and I think Vanessa and I have a friend that's in that program too and then this is so sorry go ahead no no ladies first uh one of the questions that I thought was unique is uh what are some unique ways that you've seen applicants and current students demonstrate advocacy and Leadership I'm gonna have Albert because he he's like he reads so many files not as many as Dr gear uh well I I like to give this one example of a uh a student many years ago who was a 19 year old sophomore in college who started this program that on her college campus is called unite for Sight unite for s-i-g-h-t DOT org and I encourage you to look it up and and when you get there you'll notice this is an international level organization and you know they're not all like this you know but my emphasis is this was this woman Jen Staples she was 19 years old started this program on on campus where what she did is collected unused eyewear and distributed to organizations or I don't remember where it was but it was a small you know kind of a activity and she ended up expanding that to other college campuses so the chat there were other chapters of unite for site and it became this bigger and bigger program where even she actually applied to call uh School a couple years later and was accepted to Stanford in fact and she decided she was going to defer because she still wanted to keep building this organization I was part of the Clinton Global initiative it became this really big Endeavor that is funded by corporations and and and Foundations and so forth and so I just I just use that as you know you start here you know this is this is you know you're not all going to get to that level you know understood but you find something where you say I have an issue that I'm passionate about I want to address a particular problem I you know you can go volunteer at a homeless shelter every every week and you might help serve food and that might be you know that's good but then there are things that you can say hey I want to you know you're at this homeless shelter and you're finding that people there are are there because they have mental illness so instead of just going to serve food that that week you now say Hey you know I'm gonna partner with the the local County agency to have people uh come bring mental mental health workers to help you know with that problem so you you just find what you're doing and kind of keep expanding so when we talk about this spectrum of showing up is one thing but then you have showing up a lot then you have people that kind of assume leadership you know then expand to new initiatives new programs maybe at that Homeless Shelter you know they need money you know to have mental health workers or they meet they need resources to have uh uh um prescription drugs and you can partner with other agencies that can provide some of that and and on and on so there are different levels of just whatever you're doing think about the impact not just beyond I mean Beyond today but how is how are you leaving a legacy and that's an operative word that we use is what is your legacy what is it that you did so and it really starts with you having something that you care deeply about so that's um that's one little example I gave of maybe the homeless shelter where you're kind of doing that or or look at and if you look at United for site I think they have a description of how it started and you know think about that's how you start advocacy this is something that I'm going to put Vanessa on the spot but can you talk about that thing that you do for Sonoma County and every single person can do it in the United States in every County so Vanessa um yeah so an example something you can all do um so during covet I actually started volunteering again at a community free clinic doing Spanish translations and I realized that a lot of people were just telling me that they were going to see a therapist for the first time but they were speaking Spanish and they didn't really have that great communication with their therapist and so then that made me curious just what is our County doing about this locally and so I saw that I could join the mental health board and I got appointed to the Sonoma County Mental Health Board and I continued to um being appointee for them and through that I've been able I'm like one of the youngest and the only Hispanic as part of this board and because of that I bring this New Perspective and I'm able to advocate for example to do a mental health board sorry mental health fair for the county um for Spanish speakers or um to lead a conversation that Advocates like for Spanish speakers and the Hispanic Community there so I think um once you find a passion just continue to see ways that you can help locally even and make an impact in that way um so that's that's an example of something I was able to do and continue to do and actually I'm now working with a second year med student here to work on a kind of a research project um where we could probably collaborate with that County and County here so um it's exciting as Albert said that we can continue to grow that and expand and once you find an interest in something and I and I want to put juban on the spot too because maybe juban you can describe I mean juban has a legacy of a lot of advocacy but maybe you can share a little bit about even how you started the um gosh there's so many examples that you can give but even the uh the UC Davis emergency medicine program just you know maybe that's an example that you can share okay maybe Jupiter in here so we'll move on maybe oh for me it's just I think I I don't know I think it's My Philosophy is that leadership is not something that you learn in a classroom you just get up and do and you ask questions and you do your curiosity and you work with a team of people and you use your talents like I'm probably the least talented person when it comes to Arts crafts making websites any of that stuff but you surround yourself with people that are smarter than you that are more talented than you and you kind of have a goal and you reach that goal and you and you're persistent and you don't take no for an answer and so you just you just do it I don't think that it's I don't think that I'm special or smart actually uh as you know Vanessa is definitely much smarter than me and those not a line they're much smarter than me but you surround yourself with people that are more talented than you and you work with them um I don't know I just think that but also I think that everybody is very unique and you come from your own unique community and um and you are the only one that may be that bridge your community and so for me um is the community college students and not having access to these kind of information so starting this kind of organization kind of the same way or Vanessa finding um mental health people in our own County that weren't having access and so she got up and did it so I think a lot of people do that um I think it's just by doing it though it's not going to happen magically and it's and you're going to get a lot of no's and naysayers and that's okay that's normal and I think to just build on that we have a question um somebody was wondering how does Stanford view leadership experiences that are not related to the medical field such as being in student government in most cases we will find that that's that the leadership is not necessarily related to the medical field and so there are many different ways in which people can show show leadership I would say however that the named leadership positions in um in student organizations is probably the foundational level of leadership that we would be talking about so we're not um we're we're actually looking at leadership as a quality right that others can kind of corroborate through your engagement and not necessarily the named positions that you might have in in various um organizations so those can sometimes be impactful particularly if it is supported by the kinds of examples um so but just simply being the president of the or of that particular organization certainly the president of a student body of a large University would actually speak by volumes of but it's really also about the additional work or the additional what Albert used his word legacy that you may have left behind something that others can continue to build upon is what we're looking at this is a question um uh Mr Shabbat people are asking and I think as what Dr Gibbs said that you you'll lay your eyes on a lot of application what are some of the top mistakes people make on their application the med school and just highlight some of those um and I think it's really important um from your perspective if you want to talk about that a little well I think I think number one is you know we we talk about all these things that we would like to see that are ideals and the the verification the letters of wreck I will say that that's an area where there seems to be this expectation or yeah I guess I don't know what the word is maybe expectation students seem to think that they need to have letters only almost exclusively from from academic from academic professors and and that really only those usually only comment clearly on your academic performance for the most part maybe you did some research with them in which case okay that's that's helpful but we want to see the that diversity of of experiences not so I that's number one I think people sometimes have a a narrow emphasis on what the recommenders comment on so think broadly not you know think about your job your these advocacy experiences these leadership experiences so we already know what your academic metrics are so we want to know more about your Innovation and things like that that's one um uh that's kind of the most obvious one to me because you know we're trying to we need verification not just what you say that you've done um I I will let Dr Gibbs jump in with any of her thoughts on obvious mistakes well some of these are not so much mistakes but they are little um little faux pas that I think that um if if we tell you about this now you can avoid um so one is that if you you get these like opportunities to identify I think three meaningful experiences and those um I always say to students that um something that is personally meaningful does may not necessarily always make it to the level of these meaningful experiences um and it that's not to take anything away from those but um what we're also looking for particularly in those three things is some kind of corroboration so I'd like to make sure that there's a letter that correlates with each of those and so when I see a missing letter when you said oh that research experience that I spent two years doing is one of my meaningful experiences and I don't see a letter then that one can be a real um question about like what happened here um and it just leaves a little bit too much empty space for others to sort of fill in um so that's one I think not proofreading your application um particularly for this supplemental questions sometimes the supplemental questions um from you will have so many different schools you've applied to that's asking you to submit these and you may decide to thematically arrange your essays but if you put Stanford in a Harvard essay you know that you're like oh I'd love to be at Harvard and we're like oh okay you know and you didn't proofread properly or whatever then um you know those are just little little things that we we we definitely don't like to to see the other thing is on a larger front um not those um sort of practical things um is I would say applying when you're not ready taking the MCAT when you're not ready um and when do you know that you're ready that one's a question right so maybe Vanessa can tell us about when you know that you're ready oftentimes it's not just because I've charted this timeline it may be some other things so I'll have Vanessa kind of waiting on when when are you ready yeah and I didn't think might be applying when you're not ready oh sorry yeah I just want to add one more thing because you you reminded me of something about when you're entering your disc the descriptions of your experiences I I think a mistake in my opinion is that some similar to what Dr Gibbs are saying you might you might describe what that experience meant to you you know I did whatever I I volunteered in the hospital or and you might feel good about it you might say oh you know I felt well literally they describe sometimes people describe the the impact on you but think more about what the impact is on others what your work has resulted in what other people are are benefiting from so not just what you get out of it but like tangible outputs like because of what you did now a hundred more people are going to have access to whatever so so in the experiences that is a mistake I think I see people just they're telling you what you got out of it not so much what other people and ideally you know you're doing this because of what you're going to impact other people that's the ideal right I mean yes there's a benefit what you get but hopefully you're doing it for what you're doing for others uh Vanessa now maybe you can share with Dr Gibson yeah about when when you feel ready I think I think um so whatever I want to say I there's I knew when I was ready I'm not sure how I can express that I feel like one thing that I would want to say that's practical is again this is um a lifelong journey and you shouldn't rush through that um take the MCAT when that when we say when you're ready you got actually assessed through taking practice tests and don't rush because you don't want to take it multiple times it is a long exam you want to take it and be done with it so assess Yourself by taking a lot of practice exams I believe there's um there was probably a session by pre-med CC talking about the MCAT and specific but in terms of applying I also suggest applying early and having that time beforehand um as was mentioned earlier it takes maybe up to six months to write your personal statement it does a lot of revising and so make sure you um have that time and don't rush through that and I think when you can do that that's the best um and just deep inside you know when you're ready to go into med school so in that regards um that's just something you should know within yourself but um yeah just don't rush through it is what I would say yeah to to this point as well I'll say that I saw a question that asks oh I'm in a gap year one's the latest to consider um you know certain um prereqs once you submit your application that application should be able to stand on its own if you are like oh I need to you know I really would like to get the experience that you're doing now it's not going to make it into the application if you're relying on that to be the evidence for your let's say emphasis on leadership or that your ability to show that you can do good scholarship or problem solving that that activity that you you're doing usually during that Gap year if you're applying during that year is not going to be part of that primary application um now amcas has this way where they have these things now where you can separate actual hours from future hours and of course you can add that but we'll see that as like oh they haven't really made their impact there yet they just signed up for this particular club or this particular role so part of when you're ready is going to be that so all of those major things that and I I hate to call it a a checklist because it's not it's more than that but there are basic things that you do need to have um covered your bases on and if you're missing then that one that means you you really aren't aren't ready yet um so that's at a bare minimum yeah and I think to build on that question or that answer we do have a couple questions about Gap years and how Stanford views Gap years and if vanessa has any insight about how her Gap years went well I'll just say and then this is just an observational Trend that I've seen and it's not a mandate it's not a request it's not a requirement but I think more and more um the students who end up being successful in their matriculation at Stanford um have taken um at least one or more Gap years and have not applied necessarily in that last year of undergraduate um it can be done and I would say that the students who are really really serious about research and have done a lot in those four years oftentimes will do the four years so as not to expand their um their their course of study and um so that because they know hey I'm applying to MD PhD that's going to be a long journey why do more Gap years that extends that so um I I would say make the most of your undergraduate years if that's going to be the pathway but um oftentimes it's that extra exploration um in those Gap years I think that helps to really make for a really robust application and my observation is that the majority of our students have taken Gap years this is a question I um like to ask all the themes and everybody and this is a couple of people what is the secret to getting into medical school I I call it the secret sauce and so for Stanford what is the secret sauce Dr Gibbs and uh because everybody asked that question and so I I hope you you know could tell them what the secret thoughts is wow here on live on live webinar um there there really is no one and certainly not secret um Pathway to getting into Stanford otherwise I would um you know plug it into some sort of AI algorithm and we'd be done we probably wouldn't need all the staff we have um to review files um but it really is that um you know combination of everything I think Albert stated earlier um around um being able to make an impact in an area of passion of yours so that we can say wow I love to you know hook my uh you know wagon to that train because they're going somewhere right that's really what it's about ultimately an investment in you and your journey and how you've articulated how you're going to impact um the world um largely medicine in particular um so there's no specifics um secret sauce except that you have demonstrated this um promise and potential which may be visualized through some early leadership some advocacy and um some Legacy that perhaps you've left behind that um that others can can follow so this impact is what um I think I heard Albert say impact um that allows people to feel pretty strongly that you know you're really going places and one more thing I'll say about that it looks different for for different people you know some people that have had the access to do a lot more versus those that you know have a different context a different starting point so you know it doesn't all look the same for everybody it's a different starting point so you know I I might ask somebody what is their most uh one of the common questions I like to ask is what are you most proud of and and for some people they might say yeah you know they started a company let's say but for others it might be hey I graduated college I'm a first generation college student so keep in mind that it it it it matters the context matters so it doesn't all look the same for everybody you know what is the secret no no go ahead just seeing my classmates we are all so different and I love that so much because I am learning from every single one we all have different um Ages come from different schools passionate about so many different things some super into art others super into their research some have phds already some don't even have research and so or research experience that are super passionate and have worked with organizations and are continue to be leaders in these organizations and what I see among all of them is that passion that they have shared with me and that they all and they're like their goals are to make a difference and make an impact and they are working towards that so um yeah there is just for you to be able to share that I think is and to have those goals to make an impact I think are just very valuable and I know that's very broad but that's just what I see among all my classmates this is a question um there's a lot of questions about statistics and data that people are asking um and most of it is on the MS MSR that I posted on the link but um the only thing that I would add is the only data that you need to know that 100 of people that don't apply don't get in whatever that is medical school research we have the NIH uh director of trainee she's going to give a talk on November 18th about research and stuff and we've already people asking us data and it's like I don't know um but 100 of people that don't apply don't get in so um a lot of this data that you're asking is publicly available on the msar and and so um so we're just going to limit those questions because that's all available and you could look it up and then we have a question um from a couple of students who are already interested in a specific specialty and they're wondering if talking about their interest in that specialty um will hurt their application I don't think that would hurt on one's application but um I think um focusing too narrowly too soon can sometimes be viewed as somewhat um narrow or myopic and so as long as you're filling out your portfolio with a range of experiences that show that you can have that diversity and that you have that a little bit more open-mindedness is good but at the same token I generally do like to be able to follow the trail a little bit so when someone you know says Hey I was you know at the age of five I wanted to be a pediatric neurosurgeon and you know you ended up deciding to go one route versus another that didn't put you anywhere near that path um then that can sometimes have that little can be a little disjointed but yeah a balance between um showcasing that you at least understand other um other areas of medicine and frankly I think Vanessa can probably speak to this already that you may have gone into medical school but one idea you begin to get exposed to a whole variety of things that you never even knew existed and you might end up changing your mind I could just say this knowing Vanessa and her and I talking she has changed her specialty I think 372 times between 17 different ones so just um I think most people change it I don't know if that you know I made up the number but so there are a few it's really good to come in with an open mind and just again talking to classmates um they come they do come in with maybe an idea but then they're like hmm this anatomy class and and working is maybe changing my mind and maybe I want to do general surgery Orthopedics and so um and then we have interest groups so you really get to learn a bit more about Fields you never thought about before so it's an exciting Journey keep an open mind and On a related note if you say that you want to be you know since age five you want to be whatever pediatric Pediatric Cardiologist but you don't have any of the relevant experiences which is not you you do see this where people say I want to do this I'm passionate about this but you don't have the record you know you don't have the track record that you've been involved in this so then that's that's something when you ask the question about weaknesses that's something that's like a red flag when people are so adamant in their description of what they want but you don't have the record then then that's not compelling I mean it's not doesn't seem um yeah yeah but the but the caveat is there is this uh particularly um speaking to individuals who have taken this um you know this um path Less Traveled um through Community College we recognize that sometimes those opportunities are not necessarily available to you and um you don't you may have that deep-seated desire but you don't know how to get there so we're not going to count that completely against you but as you're um you know you're doing some of the other sort of um prerequisites um being able to hopefully um get get some sort of exposure is hopeful but we we do recognize that there are some people who just like radiation oncologist that's what I am did I know what a radiation oncologist was did I yeah so and that's what I am doing now right and so um you know I yeah when I graduated college nobody else in my family had ever done this before so of course I'd seen a pediatrician so it was like okay I think I want to go into Pediatrics um not realizing that as I got more and more into the laboratory and more like I got into studying cancer that actually this is this one is what I and it was like home right you know just um and so we recognized that and so um but yeah for those who need to have a goal post um in order to be able to chart a path well understand that typically you'll be able to figure it out in in the essays foreign that we have coming up quite often is is research a requirement for students accepted to Stanford and does that research have to be in biomedical Sciences we we have the word research in our in our mission twice and and by that typically we really do mean this scholarship and that's why I'm using her Albert and I um usually using that interchangeably because oftentimes when people see the word research they think that you're at a lab bench and it has to be biomedical scientific research more and more there's a lot of sort of dry lab kind of research on informatics and the AI and things outside of of science and technology that may be community-based research clinical research and I know that Vanessa did some clinical research um as well but um you know and so um yes we want you to show us that you can solve problems and that you can invest yourself in a longitudinal Journey because we know that the skills that research or scholarship teaches us is failure from time to time tenacity and determination that you're not getting answers typically quickly overnight so those are the values that I think we're looking for in in saying that yeah most students are going to have something of that sort um broadly defined um you know come to Stanford this is a good question um and and uh and I've heard uh this answer actually from both of Dr Gibbs and Dr Mr Chavez was how do you know um when people on their application over exaggerate and how do you know and uh I've heard both of your answers so take it well I don't know that we know you know but I will say that uh you know the letters of wreck I'll come back to that that's a good source for us to know what is what is uh you know you might indicate that you have made this Major Impact on the experience section that's what you wrote but in the letter it doesn't say that but that doesn't mean you're not truthful it could very well be that the recommender didn't give you the appropriate credit but that's another thing you have to make sure that the people you're asking to support you really are going to be Advocates that really do know you well and really can comment on on those things but I but I don't know about I don't know that you can I mean I don't know about truth honestly knowing that I mean well we can get hints on that so you know it's really about internal consistency corroboration um and yeah and so of course I think um I I had a couple other slides I was going to talk about you know staying away from you know platitudes and and um and over exaggeration because you know I think even in this modern world we all know that a lot of things are facts are easily provable yeah no I that leads to one you know sometimes I tell the story that I won't tell here it's too long but but don't lie don't lie I mean you know just don't because you can I mean I'll just mention briefly there was a situation once where an applicant uh told their Professor that that they it's a long story the family there was a family situation and um the professor ended up writing about that in the letter of recommendation the the applicant didn't know the student said the applicant said that their brother was killed you know something pretty significant um but you know said he didn't really he didn't really talk he he wasn't trying to make a cake a big deal about it this isn't the context of a course you know the semester before the the professor wrote about this in the recommendation the uh during an interview somebody asked the applicant about the brother and you know the the applicant did not know that that something had happened right I mean the applicant didn't know that the recommender was going to say that oh yeah you know his brother died but he did bring up that story in the recommendation and it was found out and it became a big deal I mean you know it was a big deal it was actually in a it's an article in the um it was in it became a big deal because the applicant ended up getting after they discovered that discovered this he became he was suspended from school actually he I believe he may have even been expelled so his whole career you know ended up his whole trajectory went sideways he actually tried to sue the school uh long story short sadly and I hate to even it's a downer but he ended up committing suicide um and uh it's because he lied about something you know that he thought was not going to come up and and it had no it wasn't even he was lying on his application he just happened to tell something that kind of came out so you know just just don't do that you know just you never know where it's going to lead or how facts will come out so I I would just say this for every lie that you tell there's three others that you have to tell to keep that one and when you apply in a medical school you're actually affirming that what you're saying is truth and if it's not and if they find out you can there's consequences for that at any point and also when you go into medicine you take Oaths and boards and fingerprinted and all of these different things and so it will catch up so don't lie be honest um yeah can I answer one one question I think is is a pretty important one that I want to make sure that um the community of persons with disabilities um you know um um hears from directly from us um there's a question about how disabled students um are received as applicants at Stanford medicine we want to be able to fully broaden the workforce of medicine and I think do think that we are under um representing underrepresented with regard to persons with disability and so Stanford was one of the first groups to you know just paste on our website because we want people to actually know that persons um with disabilities are welcome and encouraged to submit applications um uh uh to study at school at Stanford we understand that there may be some complexity on which some uh you know but the onus is really on us to make sure that we're thinking of things broadly so we think of how does one reach the kinds of competencies that were expected in a functioning physician not necessarily how they do it so we know that there's a good you know there are more creative ways and so whether a person has um disabilities related to um sensory or motor or other um um uh in neuropsychological um sort of uh and cognitive issues um we want to have an open place where students know that they could be welcomed in a place like this of course there are things that we call technical standards but we were are on the Vanguard of being a school that wants to that defines that more broadly about and not not really defining you know how you do a particular thing but what are the competencies we want you to have and figure out a wide range of flexible ways in which people can achieve that I hope that's helpful absolutely uh and actually we have somebody who's going to talk about disabilities in medicine and actually she is a a graduate of Stanford and now she's The Faculty at Harvard in pm and R and she says I think speaking in April um and she was actually in a wheelchair um all through her adult life and medical school and residency and she went to Stanford um and also disability is not just physical but it's also learning and host of other things and so thank you for actually that was one of the questions uh that I was going to bring up about disability um one of the other questions that I saw on here was about um imposter syndrome and being a first generation and I think that both Dr Gibbs and and Vanessa can can talk a little bit about that experience and imposter syndrome um so I'll quickly say that that is something that may never go away like you may have to continue to deal with as you continue on this journey but you find ways to um to deal with these thoughts that come in of imposter syndrome I think one of the things that I tell myself are that should I may feel this way right now but my voice still I'm here my voice belongs here and I can share this voice and I can share my experiences in this space and it is okay and it's actually good for my own growth to feel uncomfortable and not always having to be comfortable right it's so that's what I remind myself when I'm feeling like again like how did I get here um do I belong here was it a mistake all those feelings that you get when you feel that imposter syndrome these are the things I remind myself yeah it's kind of interesting looking at things um now more than 30 years later certainly I think um you know there was certainly a time in my life where I felt like I was entirely Invincible in anything you know I could I could really achieve anything and I think that kind of spirit is really important to pursuing this kind of pathway and as much as you can get that confidence from your surrounding environment and others um you know uh that one's helpful but we recognize that we are human beings that oftentimes do compare ourselves um to each other and we often feel like we find ourselves lacking um and so I think it's normal to have that kind of feeling but now looking back over the years and recognizing um that there are clear places that my voice and me being the only one has really shifted the entire landscape of a place has me reflecting that wait a minute how why was I ever thinking right that I didn't belong because in fact so many things are made better in the end the way that even my own field where I'm truly very very underrepresented and um to really shift the conversations around how we take care of patients in particular areas um the work that I've done with stereotactic radial surgery bringing um sort of newer technology to the world and I think when you give yourself a little credit over time and I think many of our students just give yourselves those little credits that said hey yeah my being here asking that question even raising up hand in the middle of class one day because it was something that was on your mind nobody else was probably thinking about that but people were now going to be thinking about things in a little different way that you contribute and that you belong and I'm hoping that all of our students feel that and they're learning so much from each other um so that this uh you know this this gets quilled but it's a natural phenomenon but once you experience that time where it was like your voice that kind of made a little difference it helps you along so I hope that you all can push through it's real um this is also another question um about uh lecture Styles um at Stanford are they recorded how are exams and how's teaching done I think covet must have changed a whole bunch about this so I'm going to really I'm gonna lean on one Vanessa on this one because I think we're still figuring a lot of that stuff out what was the question sorry this was about the lecture Styles and like oh you know how are things being done now yeah so we just finished what was called what is called quarter zero or yeah right um and this point what are we used to call it and it I really enjoyed this quarter because what they say and I don't know if I should be saying this in front of Dr Gibbs but it's really a time to get to meet your classmates and you take you do take these a science course um and you start taking anatomy And it it's it's still a lot of studying but you have enough time to go out with your classmates and make those bonds and connections so I really enjoyed that um this week we started quarter one where we start a little heavier load um we start a class um called or more officially start a class called practice of medicine where we get into ethics and medicine and how to do um soon the patient interview and we start biochem which I love and today for example we had um uh our first like biochem session where we went over cases so we went over diseases and how they related to biochem and that is just feeds my soul and so um with this new quarter we'll have classes all together um Monday uh through Friday Wednesdays you have off to take electives or just take completely off to do other things you'd like and um for example on Wednesdays I will take two electives and do research so my electives are in health policy research so an introduction to health policy research and a cooking class I'm also taking uh neglective on Refugee health and Asylum homes and so these are all just ways I continue to feed my soul along with the courses that we're taking um and we also take courses with the PA students which I just want to mention um because they are just phenomenal I love working with our PA students we are in small groups in anatomy for example and so I really get to work closely with our PA students in our dissection groups and they're just really great to study with as well super organized and I love them so much and I just have loved the courses if you want more details on like the course load I can always discuss that further with you all email me if you'd like and one question that's been coming up is how does Stanford view International students they're the same as as all other applicants there's nothing different about them I think that I saw the one of the questions was if you had completed uh your coursework in the United States but it doesn't matter in fact I'll tell you that 30 at least 30 percent of the uh entering class of students was born outside of the United States but there's no distinction you know they're they're treated just like all other applicants the only kind of stipulation I will I will say is that if they have completed a bachelor's degree abroad if it's not from the uh a school in the United Kingdom or Canada then they do need to complete at least one year of study in a U.S or UK or Canadian uh school but otherwise you know they're they're the same as all other applicants and to that point also um individuals who are undocumented um have always been encouraged and accepted here at Stanford medicine uh and um I want to make sure that that's clear as well um can you um also somebody ask a question about veterans um applicants any disadvantage to that um any disadvantage of being a veteran um no not that not that I can um can say um each year we um we generally matriculate at least a few persons who have served military service and of course there's other individuals who have military academies that they've served in as well but but yeah we um each year some of our strongest students who strong leaders really really come from that program um if anything I'll just say this one proves the sort of holistic aspect of our review um we know that certain [Music] experiences might be might shift the way that I'm certain you know perspectives for example for the MMI you know I might might be observing a few Trends around that but um we we put that into contacts with the entire story but some of our strongest most Ardent medical student leaders have come from from those backgrounds this is another question people are asking questions about shadowing uh clinical experience virtual shadowing and asking questions should you do an EMT CNA the alphabet soup of other things and can you just talk a little bit about that I wonder if vanessa can tell us what what you did in terms of of those clinical exposures yeah so again I because because I know of this checklist I didn't really know how to apply to medical school until later I really just um just because of out of Interest I saw a friend do volunteer at a hospital so I've started volunteering at an intensive care unit and through that I was also able to ask some of the doctors there if I could Shadow them I also had a friend whose dad was a doctor so I was able to um I did an informational interview with them and also growing up my mom cleaned a community free clinic and so I in high school was volunteering at this community free clinic and eventually that turned into me being able to do Spanish translations so that's more of the work I did in a clinic and um and I think that's kind of my clinical experiences in addition to um in undergrad I also did I T Aid a nutrition class at another free clinic which is slightly different that's not so much clinical work but I didn't do any of I Didn't Do M.A or I didn't do CNA um but these were enough for me to get understand what it meant to work in a healthcare team and of course there's so much more I could I'm still going to learn obviously but it was again just for me to explore and see that what it really means to be in that Healthcare setting talk to patients be with patients be with nurses and um what a doctor does throughout their day I wanted Vanessa to say that because I think what her story typifies is that you're following this sort of Um passion and that somehow the boxes check themselves so that's what I wanted that that's one reason why because you've said it a number of times that yeah I really didn't know the path but you were really following some of these opportunities and made the most of opportunities that were provided um to you at the time and then continue to to to to pursue those things that were resonated with you so that happens quite often where the boxes basically check themselves and I also want to share that the the way that that question is framed it feels like again there's this expectation that you have to have quote unquote clinical experiences I I think clinical experiences are good for you mostly because you get to learn uh and get a sense of whether this is the right path for you but again think about it more as and I think this is what Vanessa described of service and caring I think one of our former Deans Dr Ron Garcia used to describe clinical experiences as they don't have to look a certain way in the hospital in a medical setting it could be caring experiences it's a way that you are giving service really because presumably you're in this you're interested in this profession for that component of compassion and healing and and service so it doesn't have to just be and traditional in terms of what others are getting out of it in terms of what you may want in getting exposure sure but it's not a requirement and I'll and I'll one thing that I really loved about is this is sort of separate but one thing I want to mention is one thing that I loved about um working or not working volunteering at the hospital I became really great friends with the um what were they oh the secretary there and again I just I mentioned this because it is so important for you to realize that Healthcare is like it's a huge team effort and we really need to Value everyone on the healthcare team um because I do hear that sometimes that lacks and I think that's just really important for you to see early on and have um just just have an understanding that of that teamwork that's involved in healthcare so that's something I really gained out of it and I hope you all will too in your experiences yeah I would just oh God I'm sorry no you go ahead because I I would just say that I work in the ER and we see a lot of volunteers that come in and come out and I always just tell them to be most useful and treat people with dignity and respect I think the most important people in the ER are not the attendings are not the people that clean the rooms and so um they're the most important people and if you are there to help help them you know or help the other people around and I think people that are around Physicians um Physicians are very very busy people and people that are around them their team they hand select their team and the people that they work with so if you don't treat them with respect and dignity um they're gonna hear about it and they're not going to be as open um to help you or get you access to them and it's not and it's not to be mean and it's not to be but people are people and if you treat people with respect and dignity you will get that in return and so um but making yourself useful I mean Vanessa speaks Spanish and well a lot of people in this world don't speak Spanish but if you speak another language if you have any kind of skill set um make yourself useful um I know a good friend of mine who uh approached the doctor um I actually we did this workshop last year and I kind of mentioned some of the things you could do but um basically she runs um the social media of this doctor at this clinic and because of doing that has given her access because she does the social media and website and these are nothing medical like she didn't go become a nurse or an EMT or any of that other stuff to do that but she is useful in getting the stalker's message out and and now this physician is now the Surgeon General of California so she is actually doing some work with her remotely and so and by the way she's speaking to us in a few months uh the Surgeon General California but anyways but yeah so she just kind of did this and and she's like hey I know this doctor and she's an OB GYN and and I'm like yeah just just make yourself useful and so you never know what what happens and I think Vanessa is a testament to that and a lot of other people are so sorry no thanks thanks for that um I know we're getting late on time um I did see a question that I think um maybe Bears um additional um uh information there's a question that says is affirmative action in place at Stanford med school does ethnicity play a role in admissions um I think that um the way that some people um Envision admissions working and as it relates to uh what is known as affirmative action I I think um race will never really be a sole Factor upon which anyone is accepted to Stanford medicine um uh as is um you know allowable under current um law um race and other factors can be potentially considered in the state of California for State um of funded institutions they really are under this prop 209 line a measure that was passed many years ago in which they really can't consider racer ethnicity as a specific factor in their decisions and I'll say that generally we even though we're not necessarily we're private under that prop 209 are never using that as a soul Factor but I do believe that the context in which people bring a range of diversity that we consider a range of things that in which race might be one of the things as part of that sort of context now with that said we know that there are a couple of cases that are before The Supreme Court of the United States in their current docket and that may or may not change things in the um you know in the coming years but I do think that the way in which we've really in a balanced way I'm considered just the general contribution solution to the learning environment using a number of factors that hopefully that one's still allowable because I think we as as Vanessa alluded to we have this robust group of individuals that are just so different um and pursuing their own individual paths to make impact in medicine and we hope that that will continue and I think one question that's coming up consistently is how does Stanford School of Medicine view students who maybe had a rough start at the beginning of their career or maybe have a poor score in one metric how do they view that in the holistic review process yeah so every every element is not in you know some sort of isolation it is within a context and within the context of of grades or metrics it really may be about the trends and so if one can you know have a positive trend that helps me to forget about that other uh other part then yeah that one will be more helpful um so yeah it really is about um Trends and context if someone were to provide that context for us and that means being vulnerable sometimes uh provide that context then we may be able to really put things you know in in its proper place as we're making decisions thank you I think we've have gone over and actually I start working 12 minutes so I gotta leave my boss's office to go to work so um I'm gonna thank everyone of Dr Gibbs thank you for making time uh Mr Shadows I thank you for making time and Vanessa uh thank you for uh making time tonight uh rushing out of class and joining us um thanks everyone for coming I know we answered a lot of questions we also posted a lot of links in the chat and we're going to leave this open um for a few minutes to download any of the links that we put in chat and if you want to get a copy of that just um email us and then we will uh email it back to you but there's no way that I could you know you could cut download it here or we could just email it to you but there's I haven't figured out any other way to get those to you and I think that most of the questions that were asked were answered I think there was some questions that we put we've already answered in the link and um thank you again everyone for coming appreciate it well we want to thank you all as well thank you all for providing this forum which I think is is um an amazing Legacy a product in and of itself for individuals um uh for uh traveling this pathway [Music]