Have a seat right here. All right. Your waiter will be with you shortly.
Thank you. Do you mind if I ask why you're wearing that jacket? I'm getting old.
Didn't want to get sick. I'm sorry. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
Why are you wearing that jacket with that on? The Civil War ended more than 150 years ago. But today... the Confederate battle flag continues to divide Americans.
The recent protests against racial injustice have catalyzed the discussion of how the country grapples with Confederate symbols. in society. The U.S. Marine Corps is now banning all depictions of the Confederate battle flag. NASCAR is banning the Confederate flag. History Today in Jackson, Mississippi, a crowd gathering to watch as the state flag was lowered from the Capitol for the last time.
Mississippi was the last remaining state to feature the Confederate battle emblem on its flag. I don't apologize for being emotional. I have lived through some things.
with this flag. We shot the scenario more than a year ago in two different locations. First, at Cotton Blues in Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
My ancestors died fighting that flag. And then in Brooklyn, New York at this key food supermarket. For some, the Confederate battle flag represents Southern heritage. Why are you wearing that jacket?
Well, I'm from the South, born and raised. But for many others, it's a painful reminder of slavery and segregation. You shouldn't be wearing that in public. If you're caught in the middle of this debate...
I'm just honoring my ancestors. What would you do? You know that's the symbol of racism and hate, right?
Well, it's just my Southern pride. This first customer in Brooklyn listens in as Phil tries to justify his jacket. He knows you're talking about something else, yeah?
What do you think when you see that symbol? Racism. Oh, I'm not racist.
Just trying to show off my Southern pride, you know? Doing our paying to know. From the next line, this customer cuts in with some words of caution. You have to cover that and do it because somebody could really hurt you.
I don't mean anything wrong by it. Where are you from anyway? Mississippi. You're in New York right now.
Hide that. You're never taking back Mississippi. He seems to be generally concerned for Phil's well-being, mindful of what the Confederate symbol represents to so many. Are you serious?
I don't mean anything wrong by it. I'm talking to you right now. Somebody else is going to come and talk to you about that. How you doing, sir?
What would you do with a TV show? Tell us what you were thinking. Please, just hide that and take it off. What might happen if he doesn't?
He's wearing a Confederate flag. They might want to hurt him. He's in Brooklyn. He's in New York now.
He's not in Mississippi. Well, now we're in Mississippi, and this diner is a former New Yorker. Excuse me, sir.
Is that a Confederate flag? Yeah. Both customers listen in as our actors make their cases.
I was thinking, you know, there's a lot of black folks that might find that simple a little bit on the... on the offensive side, you know? Well, I'm sorry about that. I mean, no offense, yeah.
It's just part of my heritage. It's a little jarring to see that in public so blatantly. With the conversation at a stalemate, Phil engages their table. Y'all think there's anything wrong with the-And he delicately divulges his point of view. I mean, I know there's a history behind it, and I would prefer not to see it, but also I prefer more people to sort of see what it could represent to other people's eyes.
So you think he's right? Well, I can see where he's coming from. Yeah, definitely. Let's find out more. I personally don't bring out my beliefs because there's a lot more people around here differing.
And I've... You might disagree with him. Yeah, I've done my arguing with people, so I'm just like, I'll just keep quiet about it.
I'll do my own thing. Back in Brooklyn, this customer is not offended by Phil wearing the jacket. I'm from Puerto Rico.
They're going to borrow me. You want to wear it, you wear it. Whatever comes your way. But he disagrees with Phil's interpretation of the Confederate battle flag.
What message does it send to you, though? Flavoring. We all know that.
Well, I don't want to be offensive to anybody, for sure. As you can see, it's offensive. And even though this customer agrees...
Do you know what the Confederate flag represents? It's all about racism. He doesn't think our actor should get involved. You shouldn't wear something like that in public.
Right Not today. If not today, then when, man? Never. Time to find out why.
Right away you went like this. Honestly, like to deescalate the situation. You know, I'm just trying to like, not try to have a situation to where, you know, cops get involved and next thing you know, somebody ends up in jail. Did you understand why he bothered that African-American young man? To him I understand, but racism to me is just somebody trying to provoke you.
The best way to deal with provocation is just ignore it. Our actors are back at... the restaurant in Mississippi. That's a Confederate flag?
Yeah. I mean, do you think that's okay to go out with that in public, sir? Well, I'm from the state of Mississippi. Yeah, I'm just paying homage to my heritage.
This customer wastes no time questioning that same. heritage. Phil asked them where are you all from? Where are you all from? Michigan.
Michigan? And Oregon. Yeah, I mean they're not from the south so you really wouldn't understand.
But that doesn't stop these northerners from having an opinion. It doesn't represent the south. It's leaving from the union and fighting to keep the place. If it bothers you, you can just look the other way.
I'm going to go to the other side. I'm not bothering anybody else. I like my flag, I like my jacket. This is my heritage, my family, my state.
With Phil unmoved, this Oregon native makes one final attempt to drive the point home. My family's German, and I don't wear swastikas at all. My family wasn't Nazis, but I don't recognize that as part of my heritage. I can't even believe that you made that comparison.
That's where Phil draws the line. My family is not Nazis. That is a good thing.
And both customers watch as he leaves, upset. I don't feel comfortable around this. Well, he don't feel comfortable around you. He's never got jacked up. Facts are facts.
The Civil War was about defending slavery in the States. Part of the Civil War, we had treason against the United States. So when you hear people say, it's my heritage... I don't accept that.
That's just a dog food. for racism as far as I'm concerned. In real life, Phil, our actor, does not condone the public display of Confederate symbols. Okay, okay.
Were you surprised, Phil, that they stood up to you? No, considering where they are. are from because it's more prevalent down here.
You know, you see it often. Down south, I do understand that sometimes it's tough for people to actually have these conversations and for someone to just say, you know what, I'm just going to do the right thing for the right reason. It just, it's gold. Phil is an actor playing a proud southerner. And the Confederate battle flag he's wearing on his jacket.
You know that's the symbol of racism and hate, right? Has offended our actors Gabriel in Brooklyn and Phillip in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Maybe.
you could just like take your jacket off. The Mississippi state flag made its debut in 1894 during one of two periods when the building of Confederate monuments spiked. The first during the year 1895. early 20th century when segregation was spreading due to Jim Crow laws. The second decades later when the civil rights movement began. Noting the timing of these spikes, the American Historical Association says these symbols of white supremacy were used to intimidate African Americans politically and isolate them from mainstream public life.
When we shot these scenarios more than a year ago, our actor Phil Thiel have faced resistance from customers in both locations. Why that? You never take it back to Mississippi. My family's German, and I don't wear a swastika. And we're still rolling.
First off in Mississippi, where several customers do come to Phil's defense. Excuse me, sir? Can I, can I, I'm just on your back. Oh. Huh, is that a Confederate flag?
Yeah, I'm just paying homage to my heritage. Heritage. These first customers quickly find themselves caught in the middle.
I'm not trying to be rude, but just seeing you wearing that in public kind of makes me uncomfortable. I didn't mean to cause any concern for anybody. What if I felt like the Confederate flag represents white supremacy?
I don't think it does. All right, send them away. They wait for our offended customer to leave. You know what?
I'm going to go. And then immediately, they engage our actor wearing the Confederate battle emblem. Thank you. I don't mean no offense to anybody. It's just part of the race.
You think I should take the jacket off? It's a miracle. Like if you ran something called Jesus on it, and I'm not a Christian, I'm not going to say anything.
You know what I mean? When it appears Phil is also making an early exit. No, I certainly didn't want to.
anybody. No, you didn't. They reassure him one last time.
Is it racist? I think it's racist. It's not.
Is it though? No, I don't think it is. Okay, let's break it. Let's find out why.
I think people think it's a thing too. I don't believe that he like walked out of his house, put that jacket on to offend anyone. Well, to the black man, the white man was being rude. Right. In his opinion, yes he was.
I see where they mean slavery and racist and it does hurt people in their heart. It does. But they think that's a symbol of racist and then they think the others think it's heritage and they're just so divided.
We're rolling again. All I'm asking is maybe you could just like take your jacket off. And immediately we see some of that division as more Southerners defend Phil's Confederate pride.
Just put the other way, sir. He's explaining it means nothing. It's an insult. You're taking it that way. We don't.
It's your rights over our rights. Just let it be. Let it go. Do you know what it means to black folks, though?
I mean, but do you know what that means to black folks, though? I don't want to. the black thing up we're having dinner in a public restaurant let it be it's hateful it stands for slavery it doesn't you know we can go on about this just let it be let peace prevail i mean it's just easy for you to say because no more you know what you're more like slaves he's wrongly equating slaves to european indentured servants they would eventually earn their freedom that was not the case for africa African slaves who were considered property for life. If he took the jacket off, his rights are now diminished by this man's rights.
It's just that that Confederate flag represents such awful things to black folks in this country. Racism, segregation, slavery. But it's history, so we shouldn't be tearing down statues and all this stuff.
We learn so we don't repeat the history. I think that's the bottom line. I'm from Mississippi, man. I mean, that's what we do down there. In Brooklyn, residents try to reason with Phil.
Is that wrong? Yeah. It's just my heritage, guys.
I mean, that's... It's part of our heritage, too, but it's not a good heritage. It's just a battle flag.
I mean, it... You know, I don't think... We're still at war. You're 100% right.
Battlefront. Before walking away, he offers Phil some advice. Before putting anything on, I would definitely do the research first. Research.
It's exactly what this next customer tries to provide. It's offensive to us up here. Is it offensive to you?
Of course. It represents a system of slavery that oppressed people for hundreds of years. Have Gabriel say, actually I demand that you take it off. I demand that you take it off. I can't look at it.
Do you agree with him? Yes. I'm a teacher right here in Coney Island and we wouldn't let anybody in the school wear something like that.
What about his right to wear whatever he wants? I'm not disputing his right to wear it. I'm just disagreeing with the message that it's sending. I mean for sure.
The First Amendment protects freedom of speech for everybody, and equally he has the right. I have the right to tell him what I think. We roll one last time.
Excuse me, sir. Why are you wearing that jacket? It's just honoring my ancestors.
You know, that's all it is. This next shopper isn't even in line with our actor. You're not supposed to wear that flag, man.
Right? You're not supposed to wear that, right? But he takes a moment to give his opinion.
Take it off, man. Take the flag off, man. Well, I don't mean anything.
Yeah, but people, they seen the flag, they gonna be defended, you know? All of a sudden now, everything bothers everybody. As Phil gains some support... Tell him to take his necklace off. That insults me....Gabriel finds himself on the defensive.
Culturally, that means something to me. Well, I don't think it means... Look together, folks.
You guys are right, too. But you understand the history behind that flag? I do. That does not matter.
I don't care. People gotta learn to just get over it already. Let's find out more. He should accept it.
Yeah, a lot of things didn't bother me, but I let it go. I wasn't raised that way. I wasn't raised with racism. But how are we supposed to let it go, Cassie?
For the first time ever on our show, someone cuts in on our interview. She's this woman's neighbor, and the topic of racism hits home. It's every day!
We hear it now. Y'all don't hear it. Y'all don't hear nothing about y'all. Y'all always hear something about us blacks.
Mm-mm. Don't do it. Everybody brings it up all the time. I was never raised that way.
We're whatever you want. That you're giving right. This is America. That's her opinion, but I'm black. Uh-uh.
Come on, we've been through it. We ain't trying to go through it again. We ain't trying to see that symbol.
For millions of Americans, the Confederate battle flag represents slavery, one of the darkest chapters in our nation's history. It's crucial that we listen and hear that pain now more than ever. Hi guys, John Quinones here.
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