[Music] all right I'm glad to see everyone and I asked Pastor Nixon and several other people if any of you had any memory capacity left in your brain and the answer has been no so I'm not sure how much uh after sitting in these classes for week after week how much you're able to but I appreciate you being here and I um God has deposited something um something deep in you that will help you for the rest of your life it is um a little bit intimidating following my son speaking every time we both speak my wife always says you know I think you're great but he's better and so I uh I accepted that a long time ago and um but anyway I'm glad to be here before I share today about leadership I do want to introduce my whole family to you we have them on the screen here it's a little bit uh strange right now because two of my three sons have been in the Philippines for the last few days with us William flew back today and here we are right uh in the middle is my wife Deborah you'll get to meet her at some point uh while we're here and next to my wife is uh William's wife Rachel and his daughter Josephine and they have another one on the way I imagine William may have mentioned that and on the far right is my middle son James James is here for our worship Writers Workshop and worship writers Retreat James and his brother Jonathan own a business uh with stores in five cities in America and so James has taken a couple of weeks off of work to come here and help our worship writers from all over Asia and uh and do some writing coaching and things like that and um on the far left is my youngest son Jonathan he and James are business partners and that is Jonathan's wife Mariah her grandparents moved to America over 50 years ago from Nueva siha anybody from Nueva siha here okay nobody all right okay there right here great and um I think the town was kubio okay for a while I thought they were mispronouncing cubao but um anyway her grandparents came and so she was born and raised in Detroit and uh of course my sons were all born here all born in Makati Med and lived here their whole lives and so there Jonathan Mariah have a cross-cultural marriage Jonathan is a white Filipino and she's a brown American so there have both the mix of both and uh so that's that's my family and I and I I want I want to introduce them because I think it's important for all of you who are in Ministry to know that there is a difference in who you are and what you do they should be compatible there should be a connection but this is what I do I teach I preach I plant churches I train leaders but who I am is rooted in family and who you are is deeply rooted in family and many times we get our sense of success based on what we do as a job or career but the ultimate success is what you do at home it's your marriage it's your kids and if you don't have Mary a spouse or kids yet then just file this what I'm saying but our success is ultimately and deeply rooted in family and I don't want you to ever forget that to go and try to be successful in Ministry and somehow leave your family behind and leave them out of the picture now that doesn't mean that this is not a family business none of my three sons have any plans to be and Vocational Ministry my two younger sons are business entrepreneurs they are serial entrepreneurs and uh William is on an academic route to be a university Professor but all three of them are full-time followers of Christ and all three of them are very involved in Ministry they just don't get paid to do it and so when I say talk about family it doesn't mean that your family is doing everything with you uh it was for our goal was never to raise pastors or Pastor kids our goal was to raise sons who loved Jesus and follow Jesus and figure out what he wants them to do with their lives and our job was to prepare them for God's purpose and as they figured out God's purpose we launched them into that without trying to pull them into God's call on my life and uh fortunately we get to work together in various things and um so just thought I would take a moment and introduce them now let me give you a little bit of a background uh to how Deborah and I got here and how this uh not this building but this ministry got here in 1984 Deborah and I were campus missionaries at Mississippi State University I graduated with a business degree in 1981. I got married in 1982 and from then until 1984 I was a campus missionary I did Ministry to students at Mississippi State University and Deborah and I planned to do that for the rest of our lives we had no intention of ever leaving there Mississippi State University as a university of about 15 000 students in the town of Starkville Mississippi has about 10 000 people living in it the campus is larger than the town okay and uh and but we were invited to come here on a one-month summer mission trip rice Brooks was leading a team here we call it 10 days missions now it didn't have a name then it was just summer Outreach we came to the Philippines with a team of 65 college students to plant a church that would reach the Future Leaders of the Philippines and we figured out the Future Leaders not just of the Philippines but of Any Nation are on the University campuses we did not come here to start a youth movement we came here to reach Future Leaders the greatest concentration of Future Leaders in any Nation you're going to will be on the University campuses the Future Leaders of politics of Education of Arts of law of finance and you just pick a topic you pick an area and the Future Leaders are on the campus we never came here to reach leaders we came here to reach Future Leaders and so we planted in the u-belt how many of you have visited our u-belt congregation okay that was if you have to while you're here you have to get to the u-belt at some point I hope we have that scheduled for you it's right across the street from University of Santo Tomas the oldest university in all of Asia and we started right there I used to go on that campus and uh share the gospel that's where I trained ferdi how to share his faith and various other people and and um my wife and I would go there and and and do one-on-one evangelism with students on the UST campus now we came to reach Future Leaders in 1984 we planted the church in the u-belt most of our church members for the first few years we had a couple of hundred people they were mostly relatively poor provincial students no one with money no one with influence no one with power no one with automobiles by the time our church was about 300 people one person owned a car it wasn't me I sold my car to come here Jerry Santiago some of you know Jerry he had the oldest Toyota in all of the Philippines I think it was the original Toyota ever made okay many times that Carr was used as a wagon it wouldn't start so we would put the sound equipment and push it like a push cart so we had a church with one person who had a car and a bicycle would have been worth more money than that car so we didn't have people with money we had poor people when we took up offerings they were very heavy offerings what I mean by that there were coins there was no paper and and we we had to trust and believe God for everything I made a decision early on and you cross-cultural and International Church planners listen to this very carefully I made a decision early on that I would not allow foreign funding in what we were doing in the Philippines as a missionary from another Nation I receive support MPD support from the churches in the States but I would not allow any other foreign funding for anything not for salaries not to sponsor any of our pastors any of that it was very difficult in the early days there was a lot of sacrifice the old-timers could tell you story after Story of sacrifice and many times of prayer and fasting not because we were spiritual but because we didn't have any food or money I did not allow it we decided from day one we would build a church that was self-supportive not only self-supported but would support missions around the world and people said it couldn't be done but we didn't care we saw God as our source and so the building you're in was built with Philippine funds the building next door was built with Philippine funds when we started these buildings I said I am not going to become a fundraiser in America and other nations if we're going to do this it will be done locally with our church and I challenge you wherever you're going to build a self-supportive church in your nation do not rely on foreign funding you build something that will support itself and propagate itself and what we said was we will build the kind of church where the church people know how to give and prosper and sacrifice and own their own church own I mean fill ownership feel like it's theirs and not have foreign funding and foreign dependency so from day one these are I need to get onto the message but that's how we started in 1984 we came here to plant a church to reach Future Leaders who study on the University campuses we stayed we thought we were coming for one month one month turned into two months two months turned into three months and then four months and then six months and for the first two years that Deborah and I were here when anyone would ask us how long do you think you'll stay in the Philippines for the first two years we would say three more months and it was always correct and after three months how long do you think you'll stay here probably three more months and then someone would ask how long will you stay here probably three more months and that's what we thought we were doing so we came to plant the church but we stayed because we saw the call of God on This Nation and the call of God on our church to train and send Filipino missionaries all over the world eventually that expanded to not only Filipino missionaries but for this to be a training center for cross-cultural Missions to train people to go and plant churches in Campus Ministries in every nation so we came to plant we if that's all we did we could have gone back to the states after a few years but we stayed because of the call for leadership development this weekend we will have I think it's 130 worship services in Victory congregations all over Metro Manila none of those will be video campuses none of those will be a leader who pushes play with the great man of God speaking or something like that uh it would be a lot easier for us to do video campuses but it would it would undercut what we're called to do and that is train and equip and Empower leaders to lead not to centralize everything around one leader one of the things that I love about this church is most people most people in the congregation I can go there and ushers will try to seat me and introduce themselves because we've never built this around me when people come and visit they can't ever figure out who's in charge and many times we can't figure out who's in charge because we've intentionally built a multi-faceted leadership team not building around an individual but building around Christ and around a mission and so not dependent on some leader so we came to start a church we stayed doing hip and power Filipinos in 1994 10 years later my good friends rice Brooks and Phil manasso were flying through Manila on their way to Singapore and Malaysia where they had opportunities for church planting there were there was a Malaysian and a Singaporean who came to Christ in the U.S while they were studying and they contacted Pastor Phil benasso and said would you help us plant the cherish these were independent of one another woman's in Singapore one was in Malaysia would you help us we're thinking of being involved in a church plant so rice and Phil flew they stayed in my home and they were telling me about the opportunities in KL and in Singapore and that night rice Brooks calls it the miracle people in Manila God connected the three of us and we said we're going to do this together do what together we committed that night that we will put our lives and Ministries together to plant churches and do campus ministry all over the world to do church planning campus ministry World missions and those churches in Singapore anybody from Singapore here okay Malaysia Malaysian okay those churches were sort of the Macedonian caller we call it you know Paul had a Macedonian call Rice had a Singaporean call so that was what prompted us to go and then the opportunity we we came up with the idea that we will be better together if the three of us go around trying to do things for God that'll be great but if we do it together we'll accomplish more and that was the starting point of every nation so Victory started when my wife and I came here in 84 to plant a church to reach Future Leaders on the University campus but every nation started when rice and Phil came here and we all realized we need to do this together not separate we don't need to do this on our own let's join our forces which we had like seven churches in three nations Philippines the U.S and Bangladesh we had planted in Bangladesh and we said we're going to Every Nation now we're in over 80 Nations we've got um less than 200 Nations to go and um and so we we've got we've got a lot of work to do ahead of us so let's get into the message today uh we're talking about leadership and session one we're going to talk about the idea of how to think like a leader you have the outline right here of where we're going uh at our World Conference in Cape Town later this year uh a these are the uh 12 of the 13 chapters in a book that I just finished last week that we're now in the editing process that book will be launched so the future class is taking this there'll be a textbook that's this is the outline of it so all you get is the outline all right um eventually uh the book will be available so this is where we're going there three sections to this course creating a leadership culture and you see that we'll talk about how to think like a leader how to act like a leader how to listen like a leader that'll be today and then Monday we'll look at how to grow like a leader and how to multiply like a leader then we get to section two which is discovering a leadership process that's what we call the Four Eyes the title of this book will be I lead it's the four eyes identification instruction impartation internship and then we'll end with leaving a leadership Legacy we'll talk about ministerial and Leadership ethics uh homegrown leadership how do you raise up leaders from within instead of trying to hire them from the outside and then finally multi-generational leadership getting rid of the idea of passing a baton but rather we want to create more Lanes where multi-generations can run together and build the kingdom of God together so that's where we're going and uh the time that I have with you in this course we all live in a world that is filled with leadership samples that are the opposite of biblical examples all you have to do is look at the political campaigns let me just say in America all you have to do is look at all the people running for a political office now and you go wow it could not be further from Biblical patterns of leadership um I don't know about your nation what's happening but there's so many examples of what the opposite of what the Bible says about leadership Christians and non-christians agree that Jesus was a great leader so we want to look at what Jesus said about leadership and our main text Will We Mark chapter 10 verse 35 Mark 10 35-38 James and John the sons of Zebedee came up to him and said to him teacher we want you to do for us whatever we ask of you that is a fascinating question they walked up to Jesus and said Jesus we want you to do what we say that's like modern Christianity right it's backwards we're supposed to go and say Jesus we will do whatever you say but these guys are going we want you to do what we say and so Jesus humored them instead of correcting them he goes well he says what do you want me to do for you 37 they said to him Grant to us to sit one at your right hand one at your left hand in your glory now they thought they were asking for leadership but Jesus says to them in verse 38 you do not know what you were asking are you able to drink the cup that I drink or to be baptized with a baptism with which I am Baptized now Jesus says you don't know what you're asking what did they actually ask for three things they asked for position they ask for Glory and they ask for Authority they said we want to sit at your right and your left those were positions in that culture look on your right and your left right now see that doesn't mean anything in this culture whether you're on the right or the left of the person you're sitting by it means nothing in this class and in this culture but if you go way back in time in the ancient Middle East there whoever sat on the right and the left of a leader that was a very prominent position that implied Authority so what they were asking and their in their world was for this great position and then they said we want it in your glory and thirdly they ask for Authority those were positions of authority verse 41. when the ten so these were two of the 12 disciples asked Jesus for position glory and Authority when the ten heard it they became indignant at James and John indignant simply means really angry that always happens when people are grasping for position it causes disunity verse 42 Jesus now gives the best description of leadership that has ever been given verse 42. Jesus called them to him and said you know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles now Gentile is a word that applied to anyone who they perceived to be far from God so he says the Gentiles the people far from God lorded over them and they're great ones exercise authority over them but it shall not be among you whoever would be great must be your servant whoever would be first must be slave of all even the son of man came not to be served but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many so what Jesus says is this you're thinking like Gentiles or people far from God when you are striving for a position for Glory and when you see leadership as an authority trip you're thinking like someone far from God that's not what leadership is Jesus said if you want to be a leader he used the word if you want to be great that's what you guys are asking for if you want to be a leader then you've got to think like a slave notice these words a slave and a servant he picked the two positions that nobody wanted the two positions and their culture that everyone would do anything to avoid I don't know what that is in your culture when I grew up um my dad grew up poor worked his way through college grew up in West Texas and he would tell us the stories of maybe your parents did too of you know he would you know I'll exaggerate it a bit but walking barefoot through the Texas desert and you know all the things he had to do to make and then he became successful and he became a successful entrepreneur and businessman and he would tell us I'm going to give you an education a good education but if you don't study hard and you don't make it then you're going to you're going to here's what my parents would say you'll end up being a ditch digger okay addiction somebody who digs ditches on the side of the road okay the worst position they could think of I don't know what that is in your culture seems like every culture has one of those for some people it's a garbage collector for some people it's a street sweeper or not that there's anything wrong with those but parents kind of hold this out there and go if you don't if you don't work hard in school you'll end up being this how many of you know what I'm talking about okay now if you go back 2 000 years ago I think Jewish families would tell their kids if you don't study hard if you don't make good grades you'll grow up and be a slave or a servant and so Jesus Takes those two things that nobody wanted to be so I said okay you guys want to be a leader you're thinking like a gentile you're thinking like someone far from God you think it's about position and glory and perks and and and and entitlements and bonuses and honor and authority and being the boss you think that's what it is you're thinking like a gentile you're thinking like someone far from God if you want to be a leader I'm paraphrasing what Jesus says if you want to be a leader you got to think like a servant or a Slave then he said that's what I came to do now we're talking today first topic how to think like a leader now if we're going to think like a leader number one way we think is this leadership is influence not position in verse 37 they ask for position right and left Jesus said no you're thinking wrong I remember a few years ago at this is probably three years ago we were at a student conference here in the Philippines our Every Nation campus student conference there were thousands and thousands of people there in the arena and I was sitting um if you're sitting here watching the stage I was sitting right over here um and at those student conferences I always have my earplugs in so I can even with earplugs it's still too loud and then you experience it all night with the ringing in your ears and the inability to sleep so I have become that guy who thinks it's all too loud now um so I'm sitting there and at the whole conference the student conference never once did I get a microphone never once did I get on the stage I was I was not there to speak I was not there to lead I was just a participant and I was glad not to be doing that it was the Next Generation doing it all I was there to cheer them on a week later I was meeting with our executive team for our Urban Nation campus team Joe bonifacio's team and I was asking the team we were at a coffee shop over here a few blocks away and there were about eight people in that room and I asked each of them I said what what is the best thing you learned at the conference what was your takeaway what I thought most of them would talk about a sermon or a testimony or a strategy and that's what most of them did but Ryan Tan said something that um that really opened my eyes to this idea we're talking about Ryan said this he said I learned that you don't have to have a microphone or a position in order to lead and I said what do you mean Ryan explain that and he said and here's he said he said Pastor Steve I watched you and he said every time someone exited the stage people are standing up and clapping and people were during the worship he said I watched it you would always walk over to whoever did if they made an announcement took an offering LED worship or just preached he said I watched you would always walk up to him put your arm around him and start saying something to them he says I got curious he goes you didn't notice but I sneaked up behind you and I was listening to what you were saying so watch out if Ryan Tans around you okay he's always listening and that's what Ryan what was I saying he said well every time you'd walk up and a couple of times the people in all of our conference there's always people doing new things they've never done so some of the people who were who were leading the meeting had never stood in front of 8 000 people maybe they had a you know their their group may have been a few hundred it's pretty intimidating with the spotlights and all of those people and the people eating worship had never LED Worship in front of a group that large and the people preaching had preached in their in their in their home campus groups that would have been a fraction of that big crowd and so I just each time I just didn't think about it I just went up and I would put my arm and I would tell them something they just did great and I would say well that that when you were leading worship here this was amazing thank you for what you're doing I don't remember what I was saying but so Ryan said I realized that I can have influence and I can have leadership without having a spotlight and without being on stage and without having a microphone and without being on the program because leading is putting life and influence and empowering people and it was not a lesson that was trying to be taught it was a lifestyle leadership that Ryan pointed out and put words to that made sense now here's David doing that in second Samuel 5 verse one and two all the tribes of Israel came to David at Hebron and said behold we are your bone and flesh and times passed when Saul was King okay Paul's a minute who was King all right you're there you with who was King so these guys all the tribal leaders are coming to David and they're saying now when Saul was King it was you who led us out and brought in Israel so they're going Saul was King but who was leading everybody recognized it Saul's the king but we recognize David you were the one leading and the Lord said to you you shall be Shepherd of my people and you will be Prince over Israel verse 12. and David knew that the Lord had established him as king over Israel that he had exalted his kingdom look at this next part for the sake of his people every one of you when God puts you in a leadership position you better know it's not about you it's for the sake of the people you're leading Gentile leaders far from God leaders think that leadership is about them they think that leadership is about their entitlements and their perks and their own glory and honor and satisfaction and filling up their insecurities David knew that God put him in a leadership position not for his own name and his own sake but for the sake of the people he was leading it's the same way Jesus approached leadership so what we see here is David LED without the position then eventually he had the position secondly we see that leadership is service not Glory service not Glory a world measures a man the world measures a man by how many servants he has God's kingdom measures a man by how many people he serves many of you come from Nations where there are a lot of there's a lot of poverty and therefore a lot of household servants a lot of places in the west there are no household servants because there's not people who are willing to work for that little money but in a lot of the cultures where there's a lot of household servants we kind of think it's a status symbol how many servants we have but it's the opposite again the way Kingdom leadership works it's not how many people serve me it's how many people I serve Jesus said I came to serve to be the slave the servant of many so what we're talking about today is how to think like a leader if you're going to think like a leader you need to think like Jesus you need to think in terms of serving not being served many of you know Kevin York Kevin is dear friend of mine and we work together out of our Nashville office when I'm there Kevin is our executive director of every nation Kevin planted several churches that grew quite large and for the past past eight years he has since resigning from his church he is coaching Church Planters and he felt like he wanted to spend the rest of his life helping a younger generation of church Planters uh do it better than he did and a few years ago our church in Nashville has four locations in the Nashville area and three of the four were growing in one of those locations had sort of plateaued and was not growing and so our leadership team asked Kevin and I they said look you guys are in Nashville a lot when you're here could you start helping this congregation see if we can see if we can get some growth out of this one instead of coming to these that are growing and just you know so Kevin and I said sure we're glad to help her serve when we're there and so here's what started happening um if if you look at this where the church building was you would come down this driveway and there was a lot of parking and you drive through the parking at the end was the church building and so I noticed as soon as Pastor rice asked Kevin and I to get involved the first week when I got to church to preach there was a black truck the parking lot was empty and there was a black truck at the farthest parking slot from the building that's Kevin's truck I know his truck then I drove in and parked and then the next Sunday when I got there I noticed the parking lot was empty and there was that black truck on the farthest parking spot from the door and so I pulled in next to him and you know what happened you see a lot of and look if your pastor has a reserved spot right in the front I'm not being critical okay I'm just trying to make a point here if Kevin's how Kevin lived out servant leadership he didn't see it as position and perks and all of that but serving and so without us ever talking to anybody about it I knew what Kevin was doing he was trying to set an example of leadership is not about getting the people to serve us and getting the entitlement and the perks it's about us serving so Kevin's way one of his many ways was I'm going to take the worst parking place here and walk further than everyone else and Reserve those good spaces for uh visitors and all that and so Kevin and I would have a race every Sunday who could get the farthest place I'm not an early morning person so he won every time except when he was out of town and then I would get that so there was a black truck or a black Subaru right there in that last parking you know what I noticed about the third week there was a gray Lexus he was a lawyer from church he got it he started watching us and going okay I'm not parking they start and then it was a race but there was this gray Lexus that would fight for these parking places uh there was this there was this uh Dodge Charger convertible that would fight for these places and then there was there were several people I started noticing that were leaders in the church not paid staff business people lawyers teachers business owners and there were maybe a half a dozen people would cry in and go that's Pastor Stephen Pastor Kevin's cars huh they had been racing to get the best places and suddenly by seeing an example and it's a simple trivial ridiculous example not that it was a big sacrifice to walk 200 meters instead of five meters but an example of serving and people started following that and it became almost a prideful prestigious thing to get that worse place then we had to deal with that number three number three leadership is guidance not Authority here's the question do you push people or lead them Gentiles Lord it over the people far from God lord it over it's a pushy forceful leadership but Jesus said that's not how it is a few years ago when you met my son earlier when he was studying in England my wife and I had a conference our European conference and we visited then we went to London and ministered in our church and then we went to Oxford to visit our son for a few days and while in in London we took a Tower of London tour anybody ever been to the Tower of London okay great two of you all right when you get to the Tower of London there are these people in these uh what are they called the Beefeater in that costume but uniforms they're these big red things not the guys with the brown the bare hats but these security guys and then you go you stand in line and then you get in these tour groups and so there are tour groups maybe there are eight people and then they send you and then there's another eight people and then another tour guide that works there and so it's a it's like a square like this and so our tour guide was so boring and then the group like we're here he's telling us explaining this part and there's a group over there he's explaining that and that group kept laughing and then clapping and I'm going okay I can't wait to get there because that's going to be good so our tour guide would take us over there that group and that guy would go there and then he would tell us and nobody laughed or clapped we were yawning and that group is clapping and laughing over there and then the next station that group went there with their guides our guide took us from there to there okay this is going to be good he bored us to death here's what my wife and I did at the next one we cut straight across and joined that group okay and the rest of the tour we laughed and we clapped and our poor people we left behind were bored and yawning and lefting and this was the worst tour ever now that's leadership here's what I mean it's not an authority trip it's guidance if you Minister life if you have Life come out people will follow you we chose we saw boy that's the kind of leader we want to follow there was life there and so we just cut out and so you know if you're a leader and everybody keeps leaving your group and joining others and you start trying to pull the authority trip no no I'm your leader no you're not their leader leadership is guidance and if nobody's following you turn around if nobody's following you you better figure out why if you start pulling some Authority trip pulling out your badge to try to make people follow you you're missing the whole point of leadership it's guidance not Authority finally last one it's relationship not rules relationship not rules this is the last point relationship is because we lead people not organizations leading an organization is easy I have never offended an organization leading meetings is easy how many of you ever let a meeting it's easy meetings don't get their feelings hurt leading people is difficult because people do get offended people do get hurt people have feelings meetings don't organizations don't but that's not what we lead we lead people Joey always says discipleship is relationship I also believe leadership is relationship leadership is about relationships not rules that same campus conference I mentioned earlier when Ryan noticed that I never got on the stage but I was leading and and ministering life to people ing was our main speaker I'll never forget the moment here we've got like seven eight thousand students out there and our leaders were sitting over to the side we left the best seats for here for all the students they're filling up this and so we're over there and so this grow of after row of students here and so 30's sitting here and when they introduce ferdi he walks into the stage in this one college student stands up and starts whistling and clapping and cheering and shouting and then she looked over the person next to her and punched her and then that person stood up and Pastor ferdy got a two lady standing ovation two students from Up dillaman I knew one of them the first one who stood up I've known her since she was crawling around in diapers that was Pastor ferdy's daughter and then she hit her friend to stand up and I just thought that's leadership the person who knows him the best honored him the most the person who knows how he really lives knows how he really leads the closest to him gave him the most honor and so often with preachers people who don't know us give us a lot of Honor because it's easy to stand here and and act like a leader but when you get home and you get around the people that you really know and really know you and watch you when you're not anointed and watch you when you don't have a mic if they honor you then that's real leadership leadership is about relationship and the one in that room who had the closest relationship to 30 of anybody else in the room immediately jumped to her feet and started whistling and cheering and giving the most honor because leadership is relationship doesn't matter how good I can lead someone from the back row that I've never met the question is are people who really know me willing to follow me have you ever been around a leader and from a distance they seemed amazing and the closer you got the more disappointing I think we all have now I don't want you to think that any leader is perfect because the closer you get to any leader you will find flaws but the question is how do we deal with those flaws leadership is relationship this whole thing about leadership is about relationships not keeping rules now we're out of time let me say one more thing about relationships the Apostle Paul when he wrote his letters his Epistles he constantly referred to himself as a brother as a father in Thessalonians he even said I was with you like a mother tenderly gently caring for a baby he used relational words to describe his leadership he didn't use ecclesiastical words he didn't use militant words he didn't use political words he used relational words now that doesn't mean we're supposed to call each other brother and call each other father and mother and all of that that's not what I'm saying at all because what we do now is we use a title instead of the reality Paul didn't say call me brother Paul God forbid that you call me brother Steve he didn't say call me Father Paul he said no the substance our relationship was like a Father's son it was like a brother to a brother that's how it was it was relational [Music] thank you