today in this Flipboard master class I'll be interviewing Michael dinich on how he gets millions of free traffic to his website from Flipboard every single month plus you'll learn his actual process for doing this yourself how long it takes and how he recovered his SES traffic after the updates by using Flipboard let's go so what is a Flipboard is a Content creation platform where people can go and discover new blog articles YouTube videos images different types of contact and how much traffic do you typically get from that per month say so we average anywhere from 500,000 to uh over 1 million paid shoes a month from Flipboard pretty insane isn't it so I assume in fact I saw this in your Niche Pursuits interview the Flipboard is quite open to sending traffic to other bloggers it's not like other algorithms where they're trying to keep all the traffic in one ecosystem yeah it yeah really is the only uh platform that I can really think of that's not hostile towards content creators everything else Pinterest Twitter Facebook they want to keep people in their ecosystem and they don't want to send traffic out where Flipboard is very much stumble upon if you remember that or dig back in the days before dig shut down their website and moved over to Facebook it's very simple similar to that just recommends content to people that they can like and they can follow content producers or content curators that they like and and see the content that they're reading and read along with them it's pretty crazy because when I went on Flipboard for example and I'd never been on it before recently I felt like almost going back in time like you say with stumble upon or something like that but obviously a lot of people still use it and it's still getting a lot of traffic yeah it's not as big as some of those other platforms um compared to Pinterest or Reddit or whatever I'm sure it's a baby site but it's still very big uh I was talking to some people about it recently and they asked me how many users are on am I going to be able to get enough traffic or anything from it and they're comparing it to Tik Tok and obviously it's nowhere near as big as Tik Tok but what's different than Tik Tok or Facebook or those platforms is people go to those thing Facebook to uh interact with all different types of content they go to check out the the stock their ex their exes they go there to visit pictures of their grandkids maybe they want to read some articles or whatever right they go in there to type out how horrible their experience was at the buffet or whatever but they're not necessarily there to read articles even though Facebook might be a very big the amount of people that are actually interested in Reading blog posts is arguably quite small whereas with Flipboard is much smaller but people are there read and be exposed to new content it's a much more audience is much more interested in rereading articles and we've had a couple of people tell us how big is my Niche on Flipboard I've gone in and I've searched a couple of terms we find that like 20 I think like something like 20 million people are following the hashtag food uh couple hundred thousand people are are following hashtags like DIY for most niches there's plenty of people on there interested in the content that they produce and let's say someone watch in this wants to get started getting traffic to their website from Flipboard what's the step-by-step process like it's pretty easy it's it's similar to setting up any social media platform it can be a little you know intimidating if you've never if you haven't sent up a Flipboard profile before but it's really just as simple as setting up a Twitter account you pick out a name you pick out a hashtag you put a little description into your website and then you have to set up magazines which this is where it's maybe a little bit similar to Pinterest so magazines are like a board and they're just really groupings of topic ideas so you might make a couple different magazines in your Niche for you to flip and basically flip means sharing your content into those magazines so people can read them and so how would you figure out what to create magazines around so what I like to do for my websites and and the websites that we work with is we will typically make a magazine for all of our categor sections on the website any category on our website that we publish at least one new article to a week will make a magazine we'll make a magazine for for example our main website we have a Travel section so we make a travel magazine we have an entertainment section so I'll make an entertainment magazine I like to keep the magazines really high level I don't think you have to Niche Down super super low with your magazines and so Flipboard is very if you're thinking it from a marketing point of view it's very op of funnel so you want to attract a the most amount of people as you possibly can to your profile that would be eventually have a portion of them be interested in your individual Niche so if you're like a niche website owner all about maintaining the 1980s Toyotas you might make a a magazine that's just Automobiles and you attract people that are interested in automobiles to your website you flip content related to automobiles but then you also flip your content related to 1980s automobiles yeah that makes sense so it's almost like when you build out say a topical map for a website instead of setting up categories like you would on a normal website you would set up magazines on Flipboard correct yeah and then how many magazines would you say is optimal about 10 if you have a really big website you can maybe go a little bit bigger than that but you can get spread R too thin on Flipboard and one thing that we've really found with your with magazines is activity is key if you're not posting at least once a day into those magazines then they go stale and people don't follow them and they don't get any traction if you have enough content and you produce enough content you're active enough to maintain 25 magazines you know definitely do that however if you know you're only publishing couple of times a week then you might be able to get away with five or six magazines yeah that makes sense so then you would have 10 high level magazines you want to post at least once a day to each of those magazines and can you post can you repost like the same content or you have to aim for new content each time so you can repurpose your content um however so this is there are some particularities with h Flipboard so when you flip an article to Flipboard it typically only gets traffic for a couple of days okay and so if and Flipboard really likes new content opposed to Old content and it's so if you've shared an article to Flipboard and then you go to flip it to Flipboard again A lot of times it's going to pick up the old publish date from when you first when you first shared it and that old publish dat is going to limit how viral that could go on Flipboard that makes sense so what we'll often do to get around that is is we'll actually make clones of our content and canonical link back to the original so if we have let's say recipe Roundup post that goes out in January like 10 best recipes for your Super Bowl party and we want to send that again out for March Madness we'll clone the post change the headline slightly canonical back to the original share that on flip War and then after it's run its course then we'll delete that clone out and replace it with something else for the following month nice so then you can repost old content but it looks like new content to flip or basically kind like absolutely and and there's a right and wrong way to do this so don't just start spamming Flipboard I'm not never getting spamming Flipboard with the same piece of content like everything spam it please yeah yeah no please but you can we're effectively making new variations of content for what's going on we're make we're keeping them relevant because we're making the headlines relevant to what's going on we're maybe changing the featured image but the Clone so you can hack it all up it doesn't have to be for SEO so we can maybe change intro a little bit take a little bit out maybe add to it personalize it a little bit for what's going on in that period of time and repurpose it so for example for our main website W the Geeks we're all about all kinds of geekiness and fandoms May 25th is geek appreciation day so we'll take a bunch of our like maybe geeky roundups and we'll repurpose them and share them on Flipboard hey here's the 10 best geeki movies to watch during geek geek appreciation day or here's the 10 best video games to play for Geek appreciation day that's cool and then does this work for any Niche because I know OB see that's your Niche and maybe it's quite visual but does it work for any sort of Niche let's say I don't know you're in something that's not visual yeah it would you would want to try to find a good image for that and I understand because Flipboard is a Content creation engine it's not really SEO driven so people don't really search for it people see the headline they see the featured image and they see about up to maybe 500 characters of the description of the post so you have to win people over with your headline your image and that little bit of description that you're given so people don't go there looking for the best chocolate chip recipe to to make so they're scrolling around and you have to catch their attention with a good image so if you're in a niche that's maybe boring and it doesn't let you make good images or it doesn't have good images then you might want to use uh like maybe the ey tool and make a really mid Journey or something and make a really cool or fun image even if it's a little abstract something that will catch the people's eyes and you want to use a really nice and exciting headline opposed to a lot of times with SEO I think and I talked to a lot of bloggers they tend to use very boring very dry headlines I would argue that they're probably not that great for SEO but still if you're trying to rank for best chocolate chip cookies I know a lot of bloggers with the lally this used to headline best chocolate chip recip cookie recipes and that's boring for Flipboard that's not going to move the needle so you want to make the headline something kind of sexy or click Bey if you will the best chocolate chip recipes you've ever had that's lean but you get the idea you want to punch it up a little bit with your images and your description but pretty much every Niche works and if you have a niche that's maybe like really specific for example parenting six six month year olds or or six months olds right then you might just maybe that audience is a little smaller on Flipboard there's definitely going to be some parents that have children 6 months or young so you just start thinking about okay what is that what is that Niche a sub niche of and you might create content on Flipboard related to Parenting because you're trying to reach reach children of Toddlers and you go a little more higher top of funnel and then try to drive people back to your content so it's basically like it's a little bit like YouTube isn't it where you're just trying to win the click and you just all about the title the description The Click fre rate Etc absolutely do you think that at this point because it's quite easy to figure out a game plan right all right 10 magazines post once a day to each optimize the title description and image and do that daily do you think that it's quite easy to Outsource a process as well you must have done this with your own team yeah absolutely in fact you know I don't manage my own Flipboard profile anymore I actually taught my children how to do it my my son's 14 and my daughter's 16 and so they run a Flipboard Empire they run my Flipboard profile and they also run Flipboard profiles for a couple other blogging friends of mine that when I told them that I was paying my kids to do it hey can we pay your kids too and I'm like sure why not so they're running it for yeah so they're running it for a few people so it can definitely not to be dismissive of my kids but they're great kids but they have school they're teenagers they they have a lot going on in their lives and they can definitely fit this into their schedule and manage couple of profiles so it is something that most people can do just like anything though in blogging it's it's easy to do especially once you get a little bit of a hang of it but you have to get engaged a little bit and and I think that's that's why it works is that you have to spend a little bit of time working on it and you can't be lazy with it I see a lot of similarities with Flipboard with Reddit back in the day we used to use Reddit quite a bit to drive traffic back to our website and I used to love Reddit because reddit's anti- bloggers you know very anti- blogging and so that would keep away I looked at this opportunity that keeps away the lazy bloggers because they knew the lazy bloggers are not going to go in and answer 10 questions so that they can get that one opportunity where they can publish their one blog article most bloggers just want to hook up an RSS feed push out their articles and never give any of the platform anym thought to it and I think with Flipboard in particular flipboard's all about building a community and you want to share your own content but you also want to share content of other people and that's where it becomes a little bit of work and that's where most bloggers and Publishers and and content marketers creatives whatever you want to call them that's where most people struggle on Flipboard and man I would argue for most social media platforms because they only want to share their own content because they can say okay if I share my own link I get to click back I see the direct results for that that's good for me where on F board you really want to build a community of people that follow your profile and so that way when you have something to share on Flipboard the people are there to see it if you just keep sharing your own content especially starting off you don't have the followers the people aren't there to see it and you're not going to get a whole lot of results until you slowly start building up a little bit of a little bit of results and like a little bit of traffic so what we like to do is we'll actually flip we are flipping as much as 300 articles a day to our Flipboard profiles that are not our own content so we go into Flipboard we go to the foru section which is like the main page of of Flipboard think of it being like the main page of redit or the homepage or those kind of places and we look and see what topics are related to what we published and we look and see which topics are trending or we think could end up going viral and then we'll reflip all of those into our magazines and what that does is it increases the engagement increases the amount of followers we get into our magazines so that when we do flip our own content into those magazines there's actually somebody there to read it that makes sense so then you're leveraging other people's viral content as well as your own to build following quickly right 300 Clips a day how does one human do that it sounds like a lot it sounds like a lot but it it really we we break it up we we're breaking it up into about 20 minute 30 minute chunks of time and we just do that three times a day and go in and do about a 100 we just have somebody log in either one of the kids or one of my vas log in go it into the homepage flip a couple of Articles re refresh the screen so it repopulates with new kind of recommendations and and flip those and we do that a a few times and then log off and sometimes I'll even help out a little bit so maybe I lied a little bit when I said I don't manage it at all I I do have Flipboard on my phone so sometimes I'll check in while I'm just waiting for the kids picking them up at from a friend's house or something I'm waiting in the car I'll pull up the app and I'll maybe flip a couple articles myself too so it really doesn't take a whole lot of time I think that manage a Flipboard profile it could be done less less than an hour a day and compared to Pinterest and those other places Pinterest is still great but I've looked at trying to Outsource people Bas to manage my Pinterest profiles we've Tri Outsourcing them for Twitter and other social media platforms and compared to the amount of work that people do and the amount of results they get and then compare that to Flipboard flipboard's definitely had the highest return on investment on those other platforms that's pretty crazy because no one really talks about Flipboard yeah that's what I love about it why don't I want to go to the place that everyone knows about everyone sell somehow to do it and I got to compete with you know everybody else on it I rather go to the thing I guess I'm ruining it by telling everybody about it for myself but I would rather go to the thing that like nobody's there that's the blue ocean right I don't want to I don't want to Slug It Out with everybody on Pinterest I don't want to Slug It Out and try to figure out this Facebook nonsense that's you know changing all the time and then if you say the wrong thing you get banned or whatever I I like Flipboard because nobody's talking about it like it's been around for a long time this is it's not new it's I don't what 14 some years old or whatever it's been around a long time I wish I knew about it if I had a time machine I would have been doing it but years ago I just just stumbled upon it honestly I I heard some other Publishers talking about it and they said oh yeah we hooked up our RSS feed to it and I was like oh I guess I should do that too and so I looked up my RSS feed and we started getting a little bit of traffic month over month it started growing and then about eight months ago I started seeing there was getting enough traffic they're like oh wow maybe I should you know look and see what this thing is real knows about and so we went from in about less than 10 months from 200,000 page use a month on on Flipboard to you know over a million nice is there a different levels of accounts so for example you can be like a curator or content creates something like that yeah so they had three levels so they have like your your basic level profile that everybody gets when they sign up and then had a publisher which the publisher was the only thing that changed with being a publisher was it allowed you to connect your RSS feed recently Flipboard has suspended taking applications for Publishers so they're not currently taking applications and Publishers that are not publishing enough via RSS feed there's actually reports that Flipboard is removing their publisher status Flipboard really intended for publisher status to be big media companies New York Times New York Post whatever they were publishing multiple posts a day they weren't really intending that for like small bloggers or content marketers or whenever only publishing you know at best a couple articles a week so they've removed that option for now they may be bring it back you know we don't know and then they also offer a Creator program which is like an influencer that gives you like a verified check mark and gets you some little extra perks like you can participate in some group magazines posted by Flipboard it's nice to have and it's worth applying for once you start getting active on Flipboard but it's not necessary at all some of the biggest influencers on Flipboard all they have is the very basic profile and I think that there's actually a benefit to having the basic profile instead of the RSS feed because when you can automate something you tend to automate it set it forget it and forget about it and when you forget about it it builds complacency and then complacency typically generates a lack of results I think it's worthwhile to spend a little bit of effort actually manually flipping the posts yourself in the Flipboard you can ensure that the headlines are working properly the featured images are properly set up properly they're going into right magazines do you want and everything I think you'll actually end up being more successful with it yeah that makes sense so then in terms of the three-step blueprint from what I've seen in the notes is you want 10 magazines post once a day to each with new content win the click just like you would with YouTube so for example optimized in the title description an image and then the third step is sharing other people's content as well and you can go to the trend INF for you page do about 300 flips a day maybe you do that a 100 a Time 20 minutes each time three times a day something like that absolutely and I want point out like when I say one one flip a day into your own magazines that could be your own content that would be better because that would give you more traffic but if you don't have something to flip into your own magazines every single day then just flip something of somebody else's think think of whoever's in your that's maybe similar to you or if you don't want to share their content because they're too direct of a competitor think of somebody's tangent related to you they you don't perceive as a competitor and flip some of their content but you definitely want to have activity in your magazines going on every day how long's it typically take to get results from what we've seen from working with other bloggers to help them increase it it seems to take about six to seven months it's really weird for the first six months I don't know if it's just a fluke or a Flipboard actually has a little bit of a Sandbox process or something but it seems like everyone struggles for that first six months and then right around the the sixth to seventh month their profiles just start taking off and going crazy so I I try to encourage people that at least take six or seven months commit to it you might be able to speed that up a little bit by flipping more posting more content and everything but I think like some of it's just this time element like a pregnancy takes nine months you can't speed it up by assigning more ladies to it so I think if you go in the Flipboard and you just start flipping a thousand articles a day on day one thinking you're going to get to this a million page views in in one week I think there's probably something algorithmic there that probably will not allow that to happen we just haven't seen people really just knocking out of the park in the first couple of days it definitely takes a little bit of time do you think it's a good option for people who have been hit by the updates recently I for us for our onite it's really saving our butts because of the update we've basically grown we've grown our traffic on our websites enough that we've basically replaced our traffic that we're getting from Google and we're are trying to recover from the hcu with our main site we have a couple websites that weren't H with the hcu uh but I'm looking at the writing on the wall here with the publishing industry and Google I'm sitting there thinking do we even I want to be like a doomsayer by any means but what's the future of Google they want to replace this with a AI they want to and then what they don't replace us with AI they want to replace us with Forbes and then they want to replace us with with all these other places and so I'm sitting there thinking do we really do we really even need them and that might be the irony we spent all this time thinking that Google was the most permanent form of traffic and it was the highest tier highest level of traffic and Google's of all the places is probably the most hostile to small Publishers and you know I'm looking at platforms like this and they're not hostile they're not hostile to us the Flipboard the people that run Flipboard I've actually talked about Flipboard on podcasts and everything and the Flipboard management team has shared out the Articles and they're like yay we're happy that we're replacing Google for you people and the company at least right now they want to support Publishers and they want want to be supportive and they want to be the community whereas I think that a lot of the Google and everything unfortunately I think has a pretty for view of us right now this is definitely this and other social media platforms is where i' be spending most of my time all these things change though right at one point in time Pinterest was influencers and everything out to to work with them and then they changed Reddit at one point in time behaved differently than they did today I think if you're going to drive traffic to your website from flip order any of these sources you really need to work on your process to bring those people then into your platform so make sure that you're inviting these people when they come to your website from Flipboard you're inviting them to join your email list you're inviting them to sign up for push notifications you're inviting them to follow you on other social media platforms and really move it try to move them into platforms that you control preferably email list first and then other social media platforms you know afterwards and what we found with the Flipboard traffic is it's good quality traffic email signups you know from the traffic has been really good RPMs from it have been really good the engagement with the site's been you know really good the RPMs are similar to you know just about any other social media platform I have a couple sites where the Flipboard RPMs are better than Pinterest and I got a couple where they're slightly lower than Pinterest so I'd say that averages out to about the same and they sign up for the email list which is absolutely great we put an exit intent pop up on some of our articles where when we know people are coming from Flipboard because we made the article just for Flipboard when they go to exit the article it'll g a pop up and they'll say hey follow us on Flipboard so we catch them for there from there so you definitely want to try to move those people and and make them a little more sticky in some way yeah I think that's the main thing isn't it like just taking that traffic that you don't own and enjoying it while you do but making sure that you always convert it into that email list because what I've seen for example five or 10 years ago we still get very similar open rates to what we get now it's like email is the most Evergreen source of traffic I've ever seen it is and it's so important with Google Kick the Can down the road obviously with cookies another year but with cookies going away possibly eventually email is is very important for boosting RPMs if you rely on for ad revenue for supporting your website even if you don't re re rely on ad revenue for your website if you're a Content marketer affiliate marketer whatever your email list that's really where the money is being able to offer them products offer them affiliate offers and different things promotions that's where a lot of the money is so you definitely want to try to move that traffic into that platform yeah I saw for example just going back to that issue with the likelihood and the future of Publishers on Google it looks quite ominous like for example you retweeted Lily Ray I think recently about five travel bloggers all of experience all going all the way to like matchu Pichu to get the pictures and the videos and still getting absolutely smashed during this update right absolutely yeah it's it's it's sad then the problem is if they do everything right and Google's still not going to let them back you know back in or let them get any traffic you know what they do and then you know what's really frustrating you know to that is we're seeing sge is you know uh they're actually using people on page two of Google for for their AI to answer the question so it's not good enough for them the rank and send traffic to it but they're going to steal the they're going to steal the answers for it which is it's really quite upsetting we got hit pretty hard with Google and because I helped teach some people how to grow their blogs I might it really hurt my ego and then I As Time and Time Has Gone on I'm sitting there thinking do we even need Google anymore if we can get traffic from places like this Pinterest social media and everything build an email list maybe Google is going to end up finding out that they needed us a lot more than we needed them it's a crazy one the other thing I've seen recently with the updates let's say since saw the drama of last month and the March the 5th update is that it's not for example AI content sites that they got hit with manual actions but I'm not seeing any real algorithmic situations but it's like actual bloggers with genuine experience actual businesses located in like the US with pictures of their Factory and everything like that like really good sites with serious experience have been hit and one of the commonalities actually I've seen between all of them is that for example if you look at the Google publisher case studies who got hit like a lot of those Publishers who have been trophy case studies for Google on their site have been hit during the helpful content update and also the latest update it seems like a lot of sites monetizing with ads have been hit have you seen yeah was no not we got one of those Google for publisher features last year we got we got with you with them they they talked to us they wanted to know send somebody out we ended up doing everything remotely did the whole interview and everything they said how great we were they said how cool everything was and then they humored Us in the update and then they hit us with a a penalty back in March on the main site and we're fighting it and it it's horrible but luckily we've been able to replace the traffic that we've lost from Lost from Google we've been able to replace with Flipboard and other sources we're chugging along looking at what our options are because we sent in some appeals and uh they they haven't gone some while so we have you know new tech team and everything working on it but and I definitely want to get back into Google but like I said as time goes on I'm sitting there thinking maybe this is the best thing that happened I like that I like Flipboard for example because we can do what we want to do we don't have to worry about optimizing for SEO we can write the headlines that we want to write we can use the featured photos that we want to write we can repurpose our content and clone it and not have to worry about it and so it has taken off in a lot of ways it's taken a lot of pressure off and it's made it's made producing content a lot more fun honestly I think these kind of platforms are a little more fun producing contents for them a little more fun you don't have to go super long with it it can be more snack snackable content and everything compared to SEO traffic I think that's quite an inspirational lesson of resilience as well right it's like you might have got clapped by Google and I hit a bit of a penalty there but that actually made you become a better business because now you get traffic from more sources and you can create the content you want to create you're not bound to the algorithm and and the algorithmic needs to say yeah absolutely and I I don't think that we were like over over optimizing by any means for SEO but our website's kind of weird because we've always been a place to wants to invite people to try and experience different things so it's multi- niche and I'm sure we probably triggered something with the algorithm there with Google they didn't like the fact I suspect they didn't like the fact that we're in all these different niches and everything but that kind of perkiness and uniqueness does well on on social media in particularly it's finding a home on Flipboard we're going to lean into it and hope that we get back into Google but we're not losing any sleep over it at this point yeah good on you have you tried much YouTube SEO as well I haven't it's something video is something I need to get into a a little bit more um I'd like to find a great person for my team to do video I don't particularly enjoy being on on video appreciate you coming on today then oh yeah you're welcome I I feel like maybe I shouldn't be on video but yeah the videos are something I definitely want to I'd love to explore YouTube a little bit more and I love to I still think there's opportunity in Tik Tok I haven't quite figured it out but that is something I want to expand upon in the next couple of months yeah both of these platforms are wide open right so for example like YouTube I created a new account Julian goie agency December last year I think it was that's already up to 1,200 subscribers with like just a few videos here and there and then for example KRA Dash who's in the SEO space he started a new account last year and he's already up to I think four or 5K subscribers something like that with minimal effort again posting regularly and consistently but minimal effort the other thing this with Tik Tok I never found it was good for getting traffic off the platform honestly but it's still wide open for getting views like a lot of the videos I published last year got like half a million views Etc none of my YouTube videos have ever hit anywhere near that level but Tik Tok seems to be one of those places where you don't need a big account get a lot of views at scale awesome and you can use those videos you can share those on Flipboard so we don't produce videos so obviously we're we're not sharing those but your YouTube your Tik toks you can put those videos does quite well on Flipboard that's cool yeah it's something I'm testing at the minute but I think we've been doing things the wrong way because right now we're using Flipboard and we're just posting our own content and we might do three or five post a day to our YouTube videos but again I think we're using old content some times when we shouldn't be and also we need to be curating more of other people's content to get a decent amount of traction plus like you say it's going to take six months yeah and one one one tactic that I would recommend with flip is like pain an avatar in your mind of what you think your readers or or viewers or your intended audience is and then think about what you know about them and then try content that would appeal to them so for example Lowe's sponsors the Home Improvement store in us they sponsor a NASCAR why do they sponsor a NASCAR they sponsor a NASCAR because they must have figured out at some point in time that a big chunk of people who shop at Lowe's like NASCAR right so if I was Lowe's and I was uh making a Flipboard profile I would make a magazine about NASCAR as well and I would churate con content about NASCAR in that magazine even though it's not related at all to Home Improvement we know that Lowe's has figured out that some of their audience is interested in NASCAR so that means some NASCAR people are interested in shopping at Los and that's a way to attract people to the profile and when they start following that magazine when Lowe's start showing content on their profile even about Home Improvement those people that are following for the NASCAR stuff are going to see it so if you were a like a Jeep dealer you would maybe make a magazine about fishing and keeping and road trips not just a magazine about automobiles not just an magazine about Jeeps think about those things that your audience is is interested in so if you've ever done like a survey of your audience what other things are they interested in obviously they're interested in SEO but they are interested in Ai and then you might make a magazine it's all about Ai and whenever you see viral content on Flipboard about AI then just flip it into that magazine right when you log into the app and you see something oh this has 100 flips about this new warning about this new AI thing or something you flip it into the AI magazine because a lot of those people are also going to be interested in SEO if you're a food blogger or example then you might add things that are tangent related to food travel pairs really well with food obviously because people like to eat when they go on vacation and when they come back for vacation where they talk about everything they eat eat when they're on their trip so you can do that health and fitness obviously correlates very well if you know your audience is women then you make a women's magazine whatever about them and then curate into those other magazines even though you might not only promote you might not never you might never promote your own content in those magazines because you don't produce content about that you still have those magazines so you can attract your people your kind of tribe you want them there so when you have something that you want to promote of your own in the appropriate magazine they're there to see it that's cool yeah that makes total sense you're caring for the audience multiple ways not just say from the lens of SEO makes sense to me who who would you say like some of the best account examples to learn from I would follow the big I would follow the big Publishers so I would follow whatever the big kind of media publishers are in your Niche or the big media publishers that cover your Niche and I would follow them because they they do it really well so if you're in t then you might follow CNET you might follow Tom's Hardware you might follow if you're if you're an entertainment you might follow collider or comic book reader or or whatever whatever big Publishers are in your Niche follow them because they typically have the content that's going viral even Forbes I hate to say Forbes does well what board hey you got to give them credit man they do uh right everyone hates them right now because they're totally winning the Google game hey hate the game don't hate the player they're doing it they're doing it good they're on Flipboard too and they're kicking ass there as well follow the big the big people on your Niche and and see what they're doing and if you want to be really if you want to be really successful make sure you give me a follow too and you can see all the stuff that I publish yeah definitely follow Michael as well yeah yeah so just on the topic of Forbes what do you think's going to happen on May the 5th because obviously we've got site reputation abuse update coming I saw that Forbes have actually de-indexed some of the content on the site for example like the coupon subd directory I think it's going to be a really dramatic update what do you reckon is gonna happen I I I'm becoming increasingly like more obiously paranoid or whatever but unfortunately a while ago I saw this tweet where Mark cubin was like complaining that somebody was abusing the Shark Tank name and was recommending this product and he talked about how he called Google and told him to fix the issue right so like Mark hugan can literally call Google and say and talk to somebody when's the last time you when's the last time you called Google and they took your phone call they won't even reply to my manual action request yeah right yeah so I ha to say it so I think I'm starting to think now that Forbes probably has a phone into into like the red phone that they can call in and be like hey let's call in the Google and Google will take their phone call and and I'd love to be proven wrong on this but my guess is at that level the high ups at Forbes probably talk with the high ups at Google and whatever issue there is going to get resolved and I think these big media sites they have know they're powerful they they do a lot of business they they're not just the number one sites that are ranking the best they're also the biggest some of the biggest spender an venders out there they're buying Forbes and and those other companies they're buying they're buying ads and everything with Google they're Google's some of Google's biggest customers as well I don't think that they're going to get treated this gaslighting experience of a small Publishers have gotten from Google I don't think it's GNA they're going to be I wouldn't go and search shorten Ford stock before May 5th thinking that Google's going to move against them I'd like to be proven wrong maybe they've gotten enough heat that something will happen but I highlight that what about sites like Outlook India something someone has people already said they're going to man to clap someone I'm just not sure who it's going to be yeah they probably they they would be someone that I I can see them making a an example out of for sure the parasite kind of spam I don't even know anymore it's gotten so out of it's just gotten so crazy spam in Google has gotten so horrible and obviously I'm quite upset about this whole situation but I was legitimately just trying to use Google a couple weeks ago as a user trying to I forget what I was trying to search but it used to be like I could put in one variation of Search terms and find basically what I wanted and I had to go through and I had to I bet you I had to rephrase it 10 or more times to figure out what I wanted and even then I really didn't get a great search experience and a year ago I think if I was looking for something I could put in a search query and find something relatively relevant first page maybe top of second page if it was something obscure I was looking for but this last time I I didn't even end up finding what I wanted and I know it's out there so it was just a really bad experience and I know that's just antidotal but I I've seen a lot of people say similar things my gut tells me that the Google search is getting noticeably worse and and that's typically the trajectory that these platforms usually take they start out with good intentions and quite altruistic Google didn't want to do any harm it was just search results right then they start adding new and new ways to make revenue and then people start rejecting it and they start trying to optimize to make more money and next thing the thing goes away so it is very possible that I don't think Google's going out of business tomorrow but no it's very possible that they end up losing some market share over this people might start going to bang back to bang they might start going to.go they might go to some of these other Alternatives they might go to something that doesn't even exist yet I know some people are trying to make incedible AI search engines uh you know I'm not sure how that'll work out but it's going to be interesting and that's really the thing I think one thing this this really taught us is we don't know anything for certain and we don't know how much time that we have as Publishers on any of these platforms it seems like I I used to love stumble upon way back when and then that for whatever reason they decided to change that and stumble upon when away so I think if you work in online business I think it's really important that you take advantage of the opportunities when they're there you make sun you make hay while the Sun's shining and hopefully you're building up multiple sources of traffic and revenue and hopefully you're saving some of it as well so that way if Ai and everything renders us all completely out of work in x amount of years we can hopefully retire and not have to worry about that so jump on these opportunities whether here don't wait yeah that's good advice appreciate that awesome what's the best way for people to contact you if they they want to learn how to do Flipboard and see a real pro at work they can follow my Flipboard profile wealth the Geeks if anybody has any questions or just wants to DM me they can DM me on social media I'm pretty active on LinkedIn and Twitter at Michael denich or Wy Geeks if anyone wants to send me an email and just chat or collaborate it's uh Michael yourmoney geek.com awesome all right thanks for being on oh you're welcome thanks for having me cheers so thanks so much for watching if you want to contact Michael I've left his links inside the description of this video and if you want to get a free SEO strategy session about how to get more leads traffic and sales from SEO with a free link building acceleration session you get an SEO domination plan we answer your questions and you'll discover the best link building strategies for your website feel free to book that in that is free and we will answer your questions directly on the call plus if you want a free SEO course links in the comments and description as well that comes with eight different traffic diversification modules showing you exactly how to get more traffic and make more money for your website thanks for watching I appreciate it as always bye-bye