He was obsessed with female bottoms. And when she said no, he said, "Well, is a [ __ ] out of the question then?" I know people did provide a woman for him. I mean, often it was done very subtly. Someone was provided who was a highclass escort. Wow. Okay, that's interesting. There's a suggestion that Andrew might be bisexual. Is that right? Who was it taking him to the massage parlor and things? He asks them all about anal sex. He's always naked for his massages. She would do tricks for him. It is believed that he lost his virginity very very young. He was basically taken by the father of so he was 11. It may help explain Andrew's sex addiction later on. He's a sort of manchild. There not many grown men who have 29 teddy bears on their bed. There's something odd there. Hi guys. Can you please do me a favor? We're trying to make sure over 50% of you viewers subscribe. Please hit subscribe now. It's free and helps us grow. Andrew Looney, welcome back again to the show. How you doing? Very well. Very enjoyed our last chat. Looking forward to this one. Yes, we had a slight break in between and we're back at the table now. We just had one. If people haven't watched that, you should watch that as well. We did an episode just a few days ago about more about the Epstein and Andrew links and Fergie and Andrew. That was a Fergie and Epstein, which was a lot that I did not know about and people are not focusing on. So, I hope people will go back and watch that one as well. Um, just to start this one again, this is, you know, new independent one. We're going to talk a lot about Andrew's weirdness, his stranges, his bullying, his bisexuality, the uh something between Andrew's father and Fergie's mother that I had no about no idea about uh Andrew's virginity. Very strange kinds of things, but just tell me again uh briefly about your book and and and all of that. Well, entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York is a dual biography of the Duke and Duchess of York. It looks at uh their marriage. I mean, one of the extraordinary things is they were only together from 1986 to 1992 when they separated, divorced in 1996. And yet here we are with the couple still living in the same home, often going on holiday together. Uh, and that's quite an interesting question. How do how do they stay so friendly together? What is the nature of their relationship? Was it an open marriage? Uh, was the timing different difficult for them at different times? uh were they forced to to get divorced because of the embarrassment that um Sarah had created uh against the family. So we'll be um that's one element. Um and I think by looking as I hope we will this time at some of his strange personality traits, it may explain how he's got himself into this mess and um perhaps um how it might have been prevented. Absolutely. And that's interesting as well. I I'll ask about that as well. Well, no, I'm going to ask now. So do they they live together still? Is that that's the case? Yes. She has a a separate apartment in Royal Lodge. Royal Lodge, as you know, is is 30 rooms. It's massive. 100 acres. So they don't need to to to share the toaster in the morning. But I think they are friendly. They see each other. They talk to each other the whole time. They have defended each other. I mean, first of all, he had to defend her, had to bail her out. Now it's sort of the positions are reversed. And it's sort of the two of them against the world to a large extent. Um, she has loyally stood by him. I mean, I would say crazily stood by him at times. Uh, saying he's the most honorable man, most decent man she's ever known. It's almost like they have what's what she says in public, I should say, or what she says in private is is slightly different. I see it. It's almost as they might have too much on one another. Well, I think she hangs in there very closely because of course she's nothing without her links to the royal family. I mean she's nothing in terms of her social status, nothing in terms of her commercial appeal. So I think there's there is an element of that. I think that's what's often concerned members of the royal family. She of course knows a lot of the secrets. Uh and so better to to keep uh you know keep your friends close and your enemies closer. So I think there is an element of that as well. I imagine this kind of cold royal lodge where they're you know separated by 29 rooms between one another. I I sometimes joke with my wife if we're in separate rooms and WhatsAppapping I be like you know oh just from this ward of the house to yours or so on it's just you know she's next the room next to mine or something um they actually live that life isn't that crazy other people living in those that well there's extensive stuff uh and you know I think members of their family come to stay but um you know she certainly travels a lot uh and I think he travels more than people think there's this idea that he's a he's basically under house arrest at Royal Lodge and never leaves apart from the occasional ride in a horse and um to play golf. But I I I get the feeling that he is traveling, for example, to play golf in Portugal and he's pursuing some of his business interests. Uh I talked to one ex-girlfriend of his who said that she actually lived at Royal Lodge for years without anyone knowing. Uh and that there are ways in and out of of Royal Lodge that um people don't know about. So if that's the case, you know, he may well be traveling more than people think. That's interesting. I remember hearing about uh the palace. I spoke with um a former guard there who told me that it was just it was just mad the comingings and goings of the women for Andrew and sort of coming in secretly and and I think it was Gileain in particular didn't have to always sign the entrance book. Yes, that's that's um a poor page uh talks about all that. um that absolutely I mean even even escorts were being brought in you know without them knowing the full security and and this you know clearly is very dangerous because there had been attempts on his life uh and you know for security you need to know who's in the building but you're absolutely right um you know the Gain particularly was was was coming and going on such a regular basis that that in some ways she was just passed through. One of the interesting parts of your book the many many interesting parts of your book was that there's a suggestion that Andrew might be bisexual. Is that right? Yeah, it's it's just something that's dropped in uh and actually has been was left by the lawyers. It comes from a Thai aristocrat whose driver was very friendly with Andrew's driver on these trips to Thailand and would and talked about young men being brought to to parties. And I've just left it there just to see if that perhaps brings people forward. I mean, they there have been lots and lots of rumors about the fact he was HIV and he was bisexual and Sarah found him with a sailor and stuff. you know, she herself says, "Well, I made up that rumor just as a bit of a joke and put the boot into him." But, you know, I have had people over the years as I've researched the book give me stories, but they're always secondhand. There's never any concrete evidence. I mean, there was a maid at at Bucking Palace who actually sold a story to a Canadian paper uh saying that that Sarah had found him with with someone in a compromising position, a man. Uh, a man. But, you know, it was in a sort of gossip rag. Uh, and no serious paper has has written it. I know that, for example, ITN investigated some of the claims and found no evidence to support it. And certainly, I I've had two stories. One that he was uh in a in a a hospital in Australia in May 2005 um with HIV. Something came to me from someone else who said his girlfriend who was a nurse at St. converses uh at the at the end of 2010 uh uh treated him but uh the person has lost touch with the woman so I can't go and talk to the nurse and the journalists who were reporting on who Kylie Manugg was also in the hospital at the time reported on the story said there was there's no sign of Andrew there no no rumors of him there so a lot of these are are sort of stories that sort of go nowhere uh once you chase them down I see I see and but But but one that I think that you're more uh on steadier ground with, let's say, is is is the ponchon for prostitutes. Not not you, but Prince Andrew. Yes. I mean, you know, there's no doubt. Um we talked in the last program about the the 40 prostitutes brought in to to to him when he was staying in Thailand. But uh funny enough, I was talking to someone yesterday who's doing some research for me in Canada. Uh and she went to one of these very smart six-star hotels and got friendly with the dorman. the dorman was saying to her, "Oh yes, Andrew used to come here all the time. We used to send in girls were sent in from the whole time." Uh, and I mean, there's even a bit in the book where I uh have the private secretary going to Andrew uh going to one of the diplomats and saying, you know, Andrew likes blondes. And the diplomat saying, "Look, I'm I'm here as a diplomat. I'm not here as a pimp." So, they were pretty open about it. Imagine being told that as a diplomat, just like, "By the way, Andrew likes blondes." And you're yes and so well so well he might well I mean I know people did provide uh woman for him. I mean often it was it was done very subtly someone was provided you know some uh interpreter who was you know a high court highass escort was there or someone was positioned at the bar for him to meet. So it kind of you know there were people he thought he was picking up normal women but actually they were they were high-class prostitutes and indeed some of the uh um girlfriends who I mean one of several of the girlfriends I won't go into detail but uh some of the girlfriends uh have actually been outed in the tabloids uh and admitted to being highclass prostitutes. Wow. Okay, that's interesting. So, they might have been people he just thought were girlfriends or Well, Sophie Anderson, you better just check this. Um, but Sophie Anderson uh has admitted to being a highclass call girl and uh was one of Andrew's girlfriends. Bloody hell. Okay. Yeah. Sophie Anderson I charged men £15,000 an hour to for sex to fund my drug habit. Yeah. And he was defin she was definitely a girlfriend. You know, she was invited to all the parties. She used to go to the palace. I see. Well, so so I mean that does actually make things even worse because you're this was this is in line with the Hugh Edwards um allegations because he was not only giving an underage person who I believe was was not you know was like 17 or 18 I don't know um um these photos and getting photos but also was fueling uh this this young person's drug habit. Yes. I mean what the dates you know I don't know about the dates of the relationship and the dates of the drug habit. So, uh, you know, one would have to be careful there, but certainly she was, uh, a girlfriend of his or claimed to be a girlfriend of his, uh, and she's admitted to being a high-class hooker. And again, is that illegal? That's to have to have prostitutes. Is that prostitution legal? Uh, they they they're trying to change the law, as far as I understand, to to go after the the the people who use prostitutes rather than the prostitutes or the people who are pimping them. Uh so I don't think it is a criminal uh uh uh um offense and of course you know all these things are denied. One of the things that you find with all these girlfriends is they always claim that they were just friends. I mean there were several news stories about Andrew that he was involved with prostitutes. Uh one of the things I did was I got six crates of press cutings going back to the 1980s. Uh and there were stories in some of the you know people like the news the world and the people in the Sunday mirror which have not online now uh about prostitutes uh going into um uh uh Andrew's homes. Bloody hell. I've got here according to AI now on my magic computer. In the UK selling sexual services is legal but many related activities are not. It's illegal to solicit sex in public, control prostitutes for profit or manage a brothel. While buying sex is legal, the law aims to protect vulnerable individuals and prevent exploitation. I didn't realize that. I just assumed it was illegal. Well, there you go. Um there is also I mean Andrew's father and Fergie's mother were were lovers. Is that right? Well, it's the first sentence of the of the book. Um and it has got picked up now. Uh it wasn't picked up in serial people. I think maybe little feel it was a bit titillating but I think it does if if if you know that your father and your your your your father and mother-in-law for example have been lovers then that places a slightly different uh relationship with the person you're with. Um and it must make family gatherings slightly odd. Um so um but yes I mean you know funnily enough I know this from private family information because of family members being very close to to uh Susan Barantes but but also uh I'm told that the story was well known. I mean it actually was known in the 60s. Someone has come forward to me with the story uh and of the Thursday club and what was going on. And I've seen it alluded to in some of the books when I was researching it. So that's why I didn't think it was that extraordinary um or shocking. Andrew's father being Prince Philip, Prince Philip and Susan Brantes and and people, you know, members of the family used to joke at the wedding. There they are sitting in the carriage together, the two lovers together. And Philip remained friendly with Susan Bantes even after she married Hector and would go out and stay with her in in Argentina. Was this an this is implying infidelity? Yeah, of course. Because Andrew was already born, right? I'm just I'm trying to get had he met the queen yet? But obviously yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean it's well known that Philip uh um you know had many many uh mistresses. So I don't think that's particularly shocking. Susan Brantes was just the sort of woman he would have been attracted to. Tall, slim, aristocratic, um horsey, um perfect. M I think yeah I think what I wanted to get at in this and and from your book as well is is the the psychological profile that formed this this strange prince that we have now seen so involved in uh Epstein potentially Clinton Trump and this this this island of horrors um and that's already a strange sort of beginnings um it is believed that he lost his virginity very very young yes I was amazed it comes from a very good source very close to Andrew uh who said that he was basically taken by the father of a friend of his uh with the friend to a brothel where they were basically lost their virginity uh and that he continued to be sexually active after that. Um and you know I kind of pondered whether I should put this in but in fact several of his contemporaries at Heatherdown the prep school he was at between the ages of 8 and 13 said that he had been sexually active with a me female member of staff. Um, so that again kind of backed up what I'd heard. And then funnily enough, someone doing research on Heather Down had some uh said there were strange things going on at Heather Down. There were people employed there who were sexually abusing the the children because actually this is sexual abuse. This isn't um anything else. I mean, but it does paint him in a slightly different light. And and it's sort of what I found with Mount Batton. Mount Batton uh I was heavily criticized because I wrote that Mountbatton uh uh had traffic boys to him uh young boys and in fact many more have come several have come forward since a man called Arthur Smith has now got a case in the high court saying that he was abused by Mount Batton when he was 12. Uh but one of the interesting things there was that Mountbatton as a young boy had gone off uh to be separately tutored uh by in fact a man who married him uh who was a a priest and a teacher who'd been in the Navy. And this man uh you would have thought with Mountbatton keeping all his correspondence and the fact that this man had married him that there would be lots and lots of material on him and there was absolutely nothing in these very extensive archives at Southampton. And then by chance I found two letters which were in fact love letters from this priest to Mountbatten uh in miscellaneous 1916 which had clearly uh not been weeded. And so I began to think well you know there this could happen and we were chatting actually before we we we started this podcast and you were saying you knew people uh aged 11 who had lost their virginity. So uh maybe it isn't as surprising as as I thought. But I knew one boy Yeah. at school. Yeah. Who had a long-term long term how long term going to be girlfriend and he claimed well very long term. They started that early. Well, I don't think they're still together now, but I remember he claimed at school that that had happened. Yeah. Well, I think I suppose one's got to be careful. A lot of things are claimed. Uh and um uh but I think this came from an independent source. Um he presumably picked it up from discussions that he'd overheard this this this this source in the in the in on the staff. So I it's out there. It's in the book. It was allowed to get through by the lawyers and it'll be interesting if anyone comes forward with any more um evidence to support this or if I get a writ. So he was 11. I mean that's that is very young. But he was very physically developed. You know he was I wouldn't say emotionally very mature but he was physically very mature. Well yeah he looked like an old 11year-old did he? Yeah. Bloody hell. It's it's a weird thing. It's a weird thing to be brought up in the royals. Anyway, we've spoken before about Mount Batton and and his potential inclination towards children. There's the King Kora boys home of course involved in all that. What what are the ages? I mean, was Andrew close with Mount Batton? What matter? Was Philip's uncle? Yes, he was Philip's uncle. Um, and the the close relationship was with Charles. Um, so I don't think Andrew was a particularly close relationship. Um, Mattton died in 1979 and Andrew left school in 1979. though he he was a little bit young but I think um yeah what what is um so it's you know we'll see what what what what what transpires if if people come forward with with stories to to back this up but I think it does explain this constant need for women but like Epstein uh the the member of staff tal talked to me that that Andrew was interested in the what he called the penetrative experience um because actually a lot of the relationships at Epste you have are about uh massages and and actually not the penetrative experience. So, but you know, just to have that level of detail I thought was was interesting. Um you know, if you're going to make this up, that's not the sort of thing probably one would have talked about. So, you know, it may and reason the lawyers let it through, it may help explain Andrew's sex addiction um later on. And who who was it taking him to to massage parlors and things? Well, it was the father of a friend of his, presumably at school. Uh, interestingly enough, uh, Sarah Ferguson's father took him to the Wigmore Club, which is a massage parlor in which Ron Ferguson was caught getting a massage in. So, um, it seems to be something that they think is a sort of bonding experience. They don't think it's particularly unusual. You'd imagine it wouldn't just be Andrew then. And if if this was the kind of thing that was just being was just happening, you would you would think, you know, Charles and what's the other one? Ed Edward. that you know there'd be a is that who it is? Yes, Edward's the younger brother. Well, um, you know, I didn't research them. My contacts are not with people who work for them. So, I just don't know. U maybe another biographer will find some stuff there. It's strange. I guess in in my experience previously looking into cults, you know, I I found that any high control group that almost has a law unto itself, doesn't respect the laws of the land, uh, and is opaque, doesn't allow others in, doesn't allow people out, and those kinds of things, you always find abuse, and most of it never sees daylight. Yeah. Well, you know, clearly it would be very easy to cover this up. Yeah. and if it hadn't been for the source which you know has proved reliable and everything else they've said uh this story wouldn't be out there. Why was he ordered off HMS Broadsword? Well, that's a very interesting again a very interesting story and it it goes to sort of how one does research. Um I I thought that I had uh Andrew's whole naval career mapped out which which ships he served on which naval stations he was posted to um where he worked in the mod. And I had a lot of good a lot of good people talk to me who served with him. I had uh there's a four-man crew, for example, in the Falklands. I talked to two of the three others. Uh I uh had his commander in the Forklands. I talked to his naval mentor as well as I suppose half a dozen others who had gone on the record. Uh and no one knew about him being HMS Broadsword. There wasn't really a spot for him there. And indeed one of them kindly got in touch with the former first lieutenant uh the in effect the administrative officer number two to the captain uh uh to say you know was he briefly on broadsword and they said no. Uh and yet the person I talked to was a former naval colleague who'd served on HMS Broadsword uh who had the story uh and it was a story about basically um not supervising some stokers at work. uh stokers do the sort of maintenance things like that and the and the chief stoer got so annoyed by him not supervising them was and having to make them work in the middle of the night that he came and attacked him with a with a Jimmy. Now, that's quite a sort of strong story, but again, you talk to people and they say, "Well, he was a pilot. He he wouldn't have been in charge of Stoker parties, so this doesn't make sense." So, again, I've dropped it in as a footnote. Maybe someone maybe someone in the Navy, someone who was on HMS Broadsword will shed some light on it, but it's often the case that that these stories that you hear uh are often quite difficult to to verify this. Yeah, we've got this picture now of a almost cultish upbringing. I I think and uh with rituals of you know take being taken out at 11 to do these kinds of things and having this yeah strange uh history you know we talk about the affairs of Philillip and and obviously the mount batten stuff it might have influenced him in some ways and then the masseuse stuff we're talking about I mean he was he was asking he asks them all about anal sex and insists on being is he naked he's always naked for his massages uh he had a sports um massage person called Emma Grunborn who works I think at Wentworth Golf Club. So you know a proper professional mass uh you know all all above board and he was assuming that you know she would do tricks for him uh and uh was very you know um well sexually uh well I mean very disrespectful to her um uh and you know asked her about her sex life and things like that. So, you know, and that's she's someone who's gone public on this story. Uh, you know, one wonders that there are others who who just have kept quiet and this is how, you know, his view of woman is just purely sexual objects. It's a weird thing, the massage thing. This is I mean, this was sort of the undoing of John Travolta. No one no one seems to care though. It's one of those that just went away because people like John Travolta. Um, even even in the sort of anti-Scientology uh groups online, people hate Tom Cruz, but they sort of like John Travolta. seems nice or whatever. But that was another one with the the massage stuff when he was doing weird things. I think it was a it was a man that was reported. Masser, a male mass. Yeah. And and everyone sort of just forgets these things. It's really odd. But I get massages from time to time. I haven't in ages actually, but I like these time massages. The thought of of saying something inappropriate to these lovely people is just it blows my mind. I can't even begin to fathom. Well, it's back to, you know, entitled, you know, the sense of everything. He's a narcissist. Everything is is seen around his own interests and and desires. Uh and there's very little empathy for other people. I mean, he treats his staff appallingly. He'll summon maids up from uh floors, you know, several floors below just to open curtains. You know, people were woken up in the middle of the night to to help him fix a TV remote switch. He will ask his policemen, you know, he'll tee off, send the balls down the golf course and send his policemen to pick them up, which is not what they're employed to do. So he just has a sense that everyone is there to serve his interests rather than actually his professionals. And one of the I think one of the most damning thing statements came from a man called Colin Burgess who was an echory to again on the record uh echory to the queen mother who just describes the difference between uh the way that other members of the royal family everyone else from Charles and Edward and the queen mother uh on how well they treat their staff as friends uh and how Andrew treats them as complete servants to be bossed around. And so he it's weird. He hasn't picked up any of the sort of social graces or or um um anything that you would expect that any grownup person. I I as an agent represent someone with autism who when he first started off, you know, found it very difficult to relate to people, but he's kind of learned all the social sort of rules just by talking to people and observation even though it's quite difficult for him. Uh, and but Andrew's never done that. And yet he was the queen's favorite. Yeah. Well, I think she was very protective of him. I think she may have felt that he was the most vulnerable, the the oddest uh and that she needed to take care of him. You know, the others are all happily married um with families. Uh maybe he was someone Dicky orbiter who was a press secretary described him as the runt of the litter. M you know different genes, different different just a completely different child. Tell me again about the the teddy bears in his room. Well, I think both he and Sarah Ferguson are have delayed adolescence. I mean they they seem happiest when they're behaving like 5-year-olds. Uh and she's been very open about this. Um and you know they're both very childish particularly in their their humor. Uh they seem to to to to want to return to this sort of house days of childhood. Uh, and teddy bears are a big theme of his life. There was a teddy bear in the car when he left the wedding. He has, we're told from maids there, 28 teddy bears which have to be put on his bed every day. Um, there was a teddy bear sitting outside his his his apartment that when Elizabeth Day from the Times went to interview him. So, this is a very strong motif. Um, and you know, there not many grown men who have 29 teddy bears on their bed. There's something odd there. And he gets wound up when they're not in the right order. Yes. I mean, he's very uh particular and this again plays to some form of autism. So there actually is a perspects card with all the teddy bears on them, pictures of them so that when the maids make up the bed, they know the order that they go into on the on the bed. But that's true of things like, you know, he he will have a barbecue and he'll get upset because the meat is carved in a different way or it's it's been Yeah. I mean, he he gets obsessed by the most ridiculous things. That childish element, this the sort of stunted growth thing. Again, when I when I investigated that P word, I was I was looking in Germany into, you know, who are these people with with who who want children. Um, uh, one of the theories because no one really knows how they're made, what makes somebody into a person like that. And one of them was something happens in very early development, sort of 11 years old, let's say, that stunts their growth uh, mentally. They stay that age. So, of course, the autism uh possibility is one of them, and I I I can see how I mean, Michael Jackson's a key example. I mean, he was he was beaten terribly as a child. Jimmy Savile had pneumonia when he was very very young. And well, I mean, if they had the sexual abuse at the age of 11, I mean, that might explain explain things too. Um, you know, it's interesting. I mean the big traumatic experience for Sarah Ferguson. I mean I don't think one could say that she was in this world at all but I mean she her mother left the family to run off with an Argentinian polo player. Uh and so a bit like Dana brought up by her father rather than her mother. Uh and she has you know she's always said she has these you know feelings of abandonment this desire to please people. I think the need for of often an older father figure uh as her lover. I mean there have been several of those including her in her first sort of living boyfriend Patty McNal. So um you know I think the child is is very important in trying to understand you know what what shapes the adult. Yeah. You've got this strange person who at, you know, stayed in childhood, not just in in his uh inability to keep his mouth shut in social occasions and his inability to care about saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, but uh but also in, you know, wanting these young very young women, if not not children, but but young women and and uh yeah, it it paints a picture to me of someone who really had you just got stuck in that in that place. Yeah. I mean, you know, they they their happiest time is is presumably before a certain age, but before 11. Uh, and um, and that's where they want to return to. That's a good point. Be interesting, you know, to have a psychiatrist or a psychologist read the book and see what they make of some of this behavior. Um, I've remind why I've written in my notes, they used to gossip about it, but stopped brackets audio device hidden. Well, that was something that came from a member of staff uh who actually told me that uh she was warned about Andrew that he was a bit of a groper and to keep her distance and in fact I think some members of staff one member of staff left after approaches from Andrew. Uh but they also the the staff were uh bugged by the Yorks uh and therefore they had to be very careful what they said. They all were forced to sign NDAs which is why a lot of them didn't talk to me and were really scared about it. Mhm. Uh uh but this one did uh and um had some very interesting things to say about the way that um they behaved um which is very very o was very odd. And the staff had warned to to stay away at points. Was that the staff warned each other? I mean they weren't worn by anyone else but you know Andrew I think I think there's one story of him you know again he was obsessed with with female um bottoms and I think you know he would he again he felt this senor he was the the boss in the house and I think he just kind of felt the staff were there to serve his needs that was that was the feeling I got from the staff member and he used to send ballerinos back to his his house his place well they made the extraordinary decision to put him in charge of English national ballet And so one of his things was he would go to the performance and you know take a fancy to a particular ballerina and send his private secretary or protection officer to go to the stage door and say would you like to come and have dinner at Buckingham Palace or whatever. So that's how he kind of did did his his his picking up of woman and what what was the the sign that he started to show show interest? It was a hand on a in a woman. It was a hand on a knee kind of thing, wasn't it? Well, I mean, one of his pickup lines, you know, he he he was pretty pretty um open about things and not very subtle. You know, he would be sitting beside a woman at the dinner and put his hand on her knee. I mean, he you know, he claims to be a great gentleman, but he he he was a bit of an oaf really um about how he he did his seductions. So, yeah, so girls would find themselves or women find themselves at dinner with um you know, making polite conversation and suddenly find this hand on their knee perhaps rather unwelcome. And the story there's a story I tell in the book uh which gives was given to me by someone I've known 40 years who was um uh at a wedding in fact I think it was Prince Edward's wedding uh where he went up to a woman he didn't even know and asked if she would like to dance uh married woman and when she said no he said well is a [ __ ] out of the question then bloody hell just a horrible imagine being asked that slightly odd I don't know how you respond to that what do women say about his performance in Well, the the the one bit of testimony we have is he wasn't great. Um, and again, this plays to the fact that he doesn't really love women. He he he wants to own women. I think he wants it's it's the chase. It's the the the the final sort of so-called seduction and then he's moved on. He's he's lost interest. Um, so the it's it's it's it's the consummation of the chase, I think, that seems to be important to him. And that's true of a lot of narcissists and a lot of womanizers. Yeah. I remember there Yeah. the allegations about Russell Brand, which you know, I don't know if they're true or not, but the allegation from different women was that something behind the eyes seemed to change. He was just gone, just these black eyes, and there was just nothing once he was in that state of play. So, a sense of trance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just doing what they're doing. And it's almost like you're you're no longer anything because it's almost a salacious question to ask uh you know, what's his performance like in bed? And so, I thought about whether to ask that or not, but it but it's not about I think sexuality. It's not about like is he good at the thing, you know, it's about does he seem to care about the other woman once she's there. That's what I think we mean by performance, isn't it? Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, a lot of the his girlfriends are very loyal. I mean, you know, no one very few have have have spoken out. Um, and uh certainly the ones I've talked to are very complimentary about him. So, um, you know, that says something. And he's had some very highpowered, intelligent, beautiful girlfriends. And and there must be something there. It can't be just the fact that he's a prince. People talk about his very good manners. Um difficult to see that when you speak to repeat some of the stories that I've picked up particularly from staff and the way he treated people but well he asked people to to leave and come back in the room if they didn't say the right thing. Well, this is the famous a famous story which in fact my own mother-in-law has witnessed where uh staying for people particularly at weekends. They've all been playing party games. They've all been very familiar and friendly. that evening. The next morning they're all having breakfast um reading the papers and you know good morning Jack, how are you? And he comes in uh and he may people may not say anything or may they say good morning Andrew and he'll stand on ceremony and say no let's do that again uh I am the Duke of York and he stands on ceremony he's absolutely obsessed with status and my argument is it's because he doesn't really have anything else to to rely on. you know, most of us are sufficiently confident in whatever abilities we have um to to just be taken on our own terms. Um he seems it seems to me so insecure that he he only thing he has to hang on to is is the fact he's Duke of York. So what would happen then if I was in the room and he did that and I said, "All right, Andrew." And he go, "Let's do that again." And he walks out the room and comes back in or whatever expecting me to say, "Sir," and and I just say, "Fuck off." Well, who knows? Um, I I've not got stories of what that those circumstances. He may have just had to shrug it off. Um, he may have had an absolute tantrum. I mean, he was known as a child as baby grumpling. I mean, he does have these tantrums. Uh, if he doesn't get his own way or things aren't going the way he wants. Very, very short temper. A bit like Harry, actually. Mh. Um, so, uh, yeah, who knows, you know, and and then there's this weird this weird story, you know, he has a temper trap with a with a a cook at Balmoral because they pre prepared the meat in a way that he didn't expect, but then she says, "Oh, I've done a Virginia a Victoria sponge for you." And he says, "Oh." And then he suddenly he's absolutely okay. And the same with with um Sarah Ferguson. There's a very famous clip which is on YouTube, an interview with a an Australian TV show um interviewer called Michael Usher, a US h. And he asks her about the sting operation by the News of the World. This is the famous occasion in May 2010 where she was caught being filmed offering access to Andrew and walking away with $40,000, which she was said was a setup. Um well, it was a setup because it kept happening and and they, you know, they got her to do it again. Uh and um anyway, Usher mentions this case and she just basically her eyes narrow back to the darkened eyes. She rips the microphone and leaves him and says, you know, I'm not doing that. I want that cut. Her agent gets in touch with the TV station. And yet Usha said afterwards, you know, we then, you know, wanted to diffuse the situation. We sort of went for a little walk and she kept asking about my friends and offered to send me a copy of her book. So there's this almost bipolar nature to her. You know, one woman she's way up. She's exuberant. Um life of the party, next minute she's in the depths of despair and feeling, you know, deeply sort of unloved. Um you know, it is and I think staff found this really difficult, you know, because you didn't quite ever quite know which mood she was going to be in. She would play people off against each other. Staff, you would be in and someone else would be out and she'd brief against people. uh she had a ve particularly a very loyal uh PR person who was a godmother to I mean they were godmother each other's children called Kate Waddington and when I talk to people they say she was always bad mouthing Kate Waddington Kate Waddington who has stood by her loyally for for I don't know 30 years who often wasn't being paid um while she was gallivanting around the world um so the loyalty only seems to go one way I did notice a Freudian slip about Andrew being placated by Virginia sponge. Yes, that's been in my head the whole while you're still but but um um he and he may well have been um unfortunately. But so Prince Harry, this is the thing that has sort of made some headlines recently with with you because uh he's angry at specifically at you. It's quite a thing to have a prince even knowing who one is being angry at one well while also monitoring things. I mean what was interesting is there's a paragraph from the book uh which again comes from a source working for Andrew and it's really in passing it's just I think I was asked by the publishers you know what's his relationship were like with Harry and and William. So I asked this member of staff and he said well actually with William it's not good. Uh William thinks he's awful. He brings the monarchy into disrepute. He's been rude about Kate. Um so that and and when uh William is king you can expect that life is going to be very difficult for for Andrew. But the interesting thing was he said actually with Harry there have been um two altercations that he overheard. Uh one in 2013 and one in 2017 and the two have been conflated. Uh the one in 2013 was about uh basically Harry's um lifestyle. At that point he was going off the you know he was it was being reported he was taking drugs. He was kind of going going bit bit off the rails and I think Andrew in a paternal way wanted to to sort of set him right. And Andrew said you know and Harry responded well you're not one to to to tell me how to behave and they got into a bit of a well Harry threw the punches. Um and that gave Andrew a bloody nose according to this witness. Now, that was actually picked up by the papers and the serial, uh, which I didn't expect. It had gone through legal. No one had thought there was a problem. Uh, and of course went around the world because anything about Harry goes around the world. Harry saw it. He felt, um, uh, disrespected. I think when his wife was disrespected because the second episode in 2017, which is when he'd first met Megan, the line from Andrew was, "I don't I think you should be careful here. You know, I don't think she's she's suitable. She's too old. you haven't done due diligence on her background. All the sort of questions that people have been asking since 2017, exactly what William said, exactly what I found when I was researching my Mountbatton book and I was talking to members of the household and she was just on the scene. So, it all rang absolutely true. But he uh decided to um to write a letter and didn't come to us and said, you know, what what's your source for this? Prince Harry wrote letter. Yeah. But I mean the obvious thing would have been for Prince Harry to give us a right reply and to say where'd you get this? What's the basis for this claim? He didn't. He just leaked a story to Newsweek. He told people not to to get involved with my book. He was trying clearly to undermine its credibility uh and threatened to send a legal letter which he has now sent to my publishers to which they're responding very robustly. Uh there's no damage to to his reputation. I mean in fact I think it's been enhanced by the fact he gave uh Andrew a bop on the nose. Uh it's a complete sort of just piece of of of bullying really. Um the publishers I think are putting a note to say that Harry denies these allegations which is fine. Um and there we are. We leave it as recollections vary. Um all I can say is if he decides to pursue this and no one uh believes that he will but if he does then we're very robustly will uh make our case. uh and um you know I think it'll open a whole whole can of worms for him. So he'd be very unwise to do so. M difficult to defend yourself against someone with unlimited funds. Well fortunately columns my publisher have been very uh um um supportive and are are handling things uh and I I think we'll be fine. When Prince William becomes king, is that the end of it for Andrew? Is he out? Well, it depends when William becomes king. I mean, let's hope it's a long way off. Uh, you know, it could be another decade and who knows what's going to happen in the next decade. Um, I think the feeling I get from looking on social media is that the king needs to deal with with Andrew. This is not a long-term problem. It needs to be addressed now. uh and you know do you have him appearing publicly uh at family events like um you know Christmas and um funerals or do you literally put him as they did with with some of the relations of the the royal family who were had mental health problems. Do you literally lock them away? So that's a question they're going to you know have to deal with. But he is clearly doing reputational damage and and it must be very frustrating for other members of the family who who who do a fantastic job and put public duty before private gain to see all they do be undermined by Andrew and Sarah. Yeah. He puts like pate in people's faces. Yes. One of his his funny haha jokes is is to it it's tends to be with women, but uh you know he'll if patty has been served at dinner, he will lean forward, sniff it, and say um don't you think this is a bit off? And as they lean forward, he'll push their faces into the pate. Uh there's a story with Tanya Brier, uh who was a sort of socialite, in fact was a I think a presenter at one point. You don't hear about as much now. um who was a friend of his at one party uh where he unzipped the whole of the back of her dress which sort of went down almost to to to you know the full length of her back. you know, he he ti he he uh there's stories of people at dinners going away perhaps to the lavatory and coming back to find that he's removed their place setting uh and move the chairs together to and a lot of it is about humiliation. You know, it's it's a sort of thing that small children do and are very annoying and grow out of. But he's still doing it in his 60s. Yeah. This man and he he'll probably be doing it in his 70s and 80s as well. He's a sort of manchild. I think that that's probably the best way to describe him, I think. So, um, where can people I got another point to make, but where's your where can people get your book? Well, the book is is on Amazon. There is a separate Canadian American edition that comes from Westminster Press uh with an audio from Blackstone. Otherwise, all the rights in uh UK and Australia are with Collins. They have a Kindle, a hardback and an audio as well. uh and uh we will hopefully see some translations coming through I I can't imagine till the end of the year. So um amazingly the hob British hardback is only £11. I mean it's half price. It's got full uh um color photographs all the way through 60 pictures. It's incredible value. Um otherwise it's a 9.99 Kindle. Mhm. Okay. Well, we will put a link down below. I love the I love the photos and all that when you when you flip through. Yeah, they're great. They're great photos, aren't they? Feels like Yeah. Yes. And it's like just the luxury of a book, you know, worth its weight in photos. They've done amazing typography. You know, they they cut the book so that they could give the whole thing space. Uh um so it's, you know, it's 140,000 words, but it's also, you know, it's it's a really lovely looking book. Well, I encourage people to get hold of it. Um and I'm I'm not going to ask you for another heretic because we've just done uh another episode. I'm instead just going to direct people to that episode because we did uh that was more about Epstein, Andrew, Trump, Clinton, the connections and all of those connections. So, I would encourage people if you're interested in that, if you haven't yet watched it, we'll have that right here. Go back and watch that because that is sort of a counterpart to to this and I think it's absolutely necessary to understand uh the full breadth of what Prince Andrew is. So, click here, get hold of Andrew's brilliant, brilliant book. There's links down below and like this and do all the things.