Transcript for:
Adventism: A Dialogue on Beliefs

[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Music] Hello everyone. Welcome once again to the Advent Media Connect. I'm your host, Pastor James Devalon. Listen, we are here with Ryan Day. Brother Ryan, welcome to the channel. How you doing today? Could you hear me? Okay. He looks like you're frozen. Sorry. Go ahead. You're good now. Could you hear me now? But Orion, are you able to hear me? Okay. I can't hear you. You can't? Okay. How about now? Can you hear me now? No. All right. I'm checking with Brother Ryan's mic and making sure all is well. I don't know if you can hear me. I can't hear you. Oh. Um I'm seeing your mouth move, but I can't hear the volume coming from through your mic as I was before. All right. I'm I'm gonna call you. I'm gonna call you. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead and call me. All right. For those of you that are watching, I'm trying to get Brian on the phone so that we can figure this thing out. Yes. All right. There you go. I can hear you fine. Um Okay. But you can't hear me. Check to check into your speaker out to see what's happening with that. What's interesting is I was hearing you fine during the prep time. Okay. But it's for some reason it's not uh but I'm checking my my sound right now just to make sure. Okay. Let me know. All right. I'm also looking at a few things on my end. All is well on my part. Yeah. Anything Anything different? No, I'm not hearing anything different. That's strange. Okay. Yeah, cuz we were right in the background and we were able to hear each other perfectly fine. Yeah. Uh let me um let me check with something on my muted mic so they can't hear our conversation right now. Okay. I don't know if uh if that's what you wanted or not. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking into that. How about now? Nothing still. Okay. Volume up. Okay. Strange. All right. Let me um this cuz the only thing I did I only switched the screen and then uh I brought you back on. But I noticed uh when you speak I'm not hearing. Check check check your connection with your mic on the reream. So if I unmuted now, you should be able to hear me. I hear you fine now. Yeah, I had my mic muted while you and I were talking on the phone just then. So um but but I can't hear you through my speakers. So yeah. Yeah, you can't hear me still. I still cannot hear you. Okay, that's that's okay. That's something I I don't know. Um let me see. hide audio. All right, let's do this. Ryan, can you can you come out of the stream and then come right back in? That might fix it. All right. All right. All right. We're We're not trying to get Ryan back onto the live stream. You guys stay tuned. I see 300 of you watching. Okay. So, you guys can hear him. He just can't hear me when he comes in. Okay, he's back. Let's try to see if we can get this going. How about now? No, no, still can't. That's weird. Yeah, that is weird. Okay, we have another option. I'm going to send you a Zoom link. Um, and then I'll capture the screen and then we'll go from there. Let me send you a Zoom link. Um, okay. That's going to come. Actually, let me open that thing up. So, pretty much you and I are going to be on the Zoom, but the live stream will still go on just as we have it. Um, yeah, I'm even looking I'm looking at all of the audio settings. That's exactly why I don't even use Reream. That's exactly I've had issues like this in the past and I said, you know what? I'm not going to use this software anymore because of this. Uh, so I said, let me try it again today. Yeah, there you go. Um, but here we are. I just I just sent you a link. Let me know if you can find it. Where did you send it to, brother? Um, it's on your messenger. Okay. All right. Send it there and then you can hop on and you and I will connect over there. Um. Okay. This is what we're going to do. Okay. So, what are we going to do now? So you can pretty much um All right, let me open that group that Zoom call. I use a different camera. All right, let's use this camera. All right, there we go. It's always good to have a backup. All right, there we go. All right, you can come on here once you join me and then I can minimize this one customize. Okay. All right. I see you just came on. All right. you could go ahead and turn on your uh video and then I'll remove I remove you from the rest stream. All right, we're trying to get uh brother Ryan on right now. There he is. All right, how about now? Speak speak again. much better now. I'm not hearing you through Zoom. It's got to be on your end. Oh, no. You're good. Got all of my settings uh set on Zoom now. Just the way they're supposed to be. Oh, wow. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. Uh cuz the Zoom is good for me. I hear you fine. Yeah, that's very strange. Yeah, I hear you coming through just fine. And and I can see you, but I can't hear you. What about those of you in the chat? They can actually hear us. They say they're hearing you loud and clear. Very interesting. So, so that means the speaker that's going into your ear is not transferring correctly. So, you have to check your speaker out to see are you using do you have a headphone? Maybe plug in a headphone and trying to go through the bottom where it says uh where your sound is. transfer that sound to your speaker into your headphone to see that will change everything. Sometime too sometime to the cuz my stuff is good. It's coming through fine for me cuz I can hear you. The fact I can hear you is working. Let me let me see if I can connect my headphones and then we'll we'll try that. Yeah, try the headphone. If not, it might also be on your browser. Your browser sometime can block the sound sometime. Interesting. Yeah, that's interesting because I use Zoom all the time and this has never happened before, which is very interesting. Okay. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, we've been having technical difficulties lately, so this is not the first time. Okay, let me um let me uh go get my my headphones and I'll be right back. Okay. All right. All right, everyone. Stay tuned. I'm trying to get Brian Day here to have this conversation. Uh, we have 626 people watching. This is a talk that must be had, but it's going to be a respectable dialogue. I promise you. Respectable dialogue. Yeah. So, um, trying to figure out what's going on with the stream business right now. So, you stay tuned. You stay tuned. We, uh, I'm going to play something in the background while waiting for him. Okay? So, you uh, don't go anywhere. Don't go anywhere. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] fingernails. Thank you. [Music] Wonderful. Okay, then that's what we'll do then. Yeah, a headphone makes a huge difference. Okay, we are we have him back. So, here we are. Let me uh let me bring you on my screen here. There you go. So, let's minimize this screen. So, this is going to be where the dialogue happens. So, this going to stay down there. So, let me know everyone, can you hear us? Okay, we want to test the mic to make sure everything is coming through before we go any further. Um, we had Yeah, brother Ryan had to get a headphone. That was that was the secret. So, let me know in the chat. I'm I'm checking the chat. Give me a thumbs up if this is coming through. Okay, before we start talking, we want to pray and then begin. We are back. There you go. All right. Some people are confirming. I'm still waiting. I'm waiting. Wonderful. So, we are you guys in the chat has to confirm with us if this is good. We have some yeses. Yeses. Yeses. Yes. I can hear you. We're good. All right. Brother Brian. Brother Ryan. Let's let's begin with a word of prayer and then we we will tell people what we are going to speak about today. Okay. Father in heaven, we thank you for another opportunity to come together as fellow brethren irrespective of our differences. And yet you called us to be Christians. Christians to those who are Christians to those who are not Christians. To those who are wandering and struggling in the faith. Some of us who think we are better than others. irrespective of what our difference is. You call us to be Christians. Help me to do that. Help Brother Ryan to do that at this moment. And be mindful of the audience as we speak. And at the same time, as we speak and share, let us be mindful that there is a God who listens and cares and pays attention to every word. Father, we asking that there will be an understanding. There will be an open heart. there will be wisdom, knowledge, and comprehension as well. Speak to us as we speak to us and to each other. We pray that the people of God may be edified through this conversation. In Christ's precious name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Well, Ryan, I got to say thank you for joining us today and it was a last minute discussion. We spent some time on the phone today uh cuz I said something a recent video. Um, actually I don't mind sharing that since it's public knowledge now. And um, let me quickly pull this for you. I did a video where I said some statements that you said, "Hey man, I respectfully disagree with you and you and I had a talk for a couple at least 30 minutes or so um, on the phone where you made something clear to me and I had to reconsider my position and I said it's only fair that we come because it's not just me who's thinking those thoughts. many of us have, but uh you wanted to make sure that we get that cleared up. So, let's get this misconception of mine out of the way. Let me play what I've said and then you can explain what you meant by it. Uh and then we can move on to the next part of our conversation today. So, uh it was somewhere around the end of this conversation right there in this video. I said the following things. So, let's take a listen to it. You left the church because things don't just depart. They go far away from Christ. We are hoping that's not the case for you. I'm not condemning. I'm not saying you're no longer a Christian because of this. Some people have gone far to say that. I'm not saying that. I believe you can be saved. I would set up the 7 minutes church. Praise the Lord. Salvation is in Christ. It's not in a denomination. But they are biblical truths that you kind of have to be careful with. They are doctrinal truths. When you start rejecting them, you find yourself going down a very dark valley. And some people never come back. So I I will say you kind of have to be careful with that aspect of it. But I would not I'm not okay with this constant going after the people. You know these people are the reasons why uh uh uh I will say Adventism exist. Even the people who are criticized pointing their fingers some of these people they honestly believe they have the truth and some of them may not always know how to handle it and how to use it. Sometime they use the truth in the wrong way but nevertheless it is still the truth and this is why you have to humble yourself when you hear the truth even when it hurts. So I like this testimony and what Ryan Day has shared here. This is my last video on Ryan Day by the way. I think I have some other things already uploaded that will come out is not really because I'm making more videos but I'm letting you know we moving forward to something else. Um, I respect the fact he sh he takes the time to speak up and speak out. I respect the fact that he is open and honest about his struggles. I think that's commendable. Very few men can do that and and be very honest. I respect the fact he shows some Christlike behaviors and character throughout his discussions as well. But I do have some things that I don't respect about Ryan. And I'm going to be honest with you. One thing I do not respect is he stayed at 3ABN with all his struggles that he had and was receiving pay from the job knowing that he was going to quit. So in other words, he took advantage of the system knowing that he was going to quit. He said that he had in plan to quit but he wanted to make some more money before he could quit. and he no longer believed certain things and he knew this would have cost him his job. That was very concerning and he was not supposed to go public with some of this information and he did. He agreed not to go public with this and he ended up going public after he got fired. He made 3ABN and also the 7 minutes church look bad. That I don't respect. Okay. So these were the remarks that I will say what you've based on what you've shared with me uh you disagreed with. Could you explain to me could you explain to the audience as well where did I go wrong with these remarks and absolutely clear well first of all I just want to thank you brother James for giving me the opportunity to come on here uh this actually wasn't my idea it was your idea uh it's not like I reached I just want to clarify for your audience I didn't reach out to you and say hey bring me on your platform um it was totally your idea and I appreciate the opportunity to come on here and just kind of clarify a few things um I want to state first that um and I stated this to you on the phone today when we talked that, you know, Seventh Day Adventists I know feel attacked. They feel um they feel hurt. Maybe they feel offended by some of the things that I've said in terms of u my experiences with the Adventist culture and uh and my personal stances currently um that are not in alignment with the with the Adventist uh theological fundamental beliefs. Um, but that being said, I I totally understand if Seventh Day Adventists strongly disagree with me. In fact, I expect it and and that's totally okay. And I and I I respect a brother or sister who can sit across the table from me and say, "Man, you know, I I just disagree with you. I think you're wrong." Um, and and that's cool. We can we can do that. I think where and it's not just with your particular video. I've seen it in the comment sections on several other videos. I even saw a couple of other videos from people who have been posting these things and you know all of us have to be held to a higher responsibility in the sense that you know we are me we're a part of media media influences people it influences their ideas their their beliefs um and and so in this case we're I had I I didn't have any issue with anything you said in terms of your disagreement with me and uh and your theological stances that obviously don't align with mine and protect ing your church and standing with what you believe to be solid biblical 7th day Adventist doctrines and teachings. And so in those in those cases, totally understand. And in fact, I encourage uh my brothers and sisters who are in disagreement with me, they can express those disagreements. And and and I I expect you to protect your movement, protect your church, and protect those beliefs. I think where where it kind of went wrong for me is when I'm hearing people say things like, "Well, you know, I feel like all these years it's been a lie. He's he's just he never really believed. And then of course your comment specifically was I don't respect uh Ryan Day for the fact that he stayed at 3B all this time not believing taking money from the church u you know people sending in their their money you know to support the ministry and he's being paid by that ministry all the while not agreeing with those beliefs and wanting to continue to make money and have a job and that simply is is not entirely true. Um just kind of going behind the scenes and going back a little bit now to my journey and I stated this in my two videos on um my platform rethink adnotism and also on my face my private Facebook page. Um this has been a three-yearong journey for me of studying into deeply the crit critiques brought against Ellen White and the investigative judgment. But I have not been conclusive on what I believe on those two topics uh openly and and even in private because I remember having conversations with my wife as recent as last summer and telling her I haven't come to any conclusions yet. I'm standing on what I believe. I'm standing on the Seventh Day Adventist doctrine because I I have to stand here until I have reached a point where I feel like my mind has been changed. Um, and so recently, as of the last part of the summer of last year, 2024, kind of transitioning into the fall around August, September, that is the point in this three-year long study journey that I've been kind of doing behind the scenes where I came to a point where I felt convicted based on evidence that I no longer could stand in harmony with the Seventh Day Adventist Church uh on the stance of Ellen White's authority. uh as a prophet and uh also on the investigative judgment teaching and I had also expressed and and I'll cover this in just a moment but those were the two main issues uh along with I believe some connected issues of the gospel but even when you read the fundamental belief of the 7th day Adventist church in terms of the gospel teaching there's various interpretations of that so the wording of the fundamental belief I didn't really necessarily have an issue with uh but most definitely uh fundamental belief number 18 and 24 which is dealing with the authority of Ellen White uh as well as the investigative judgment. So um I finally in my own heart and mind after much much study came to the conclusion that okay I I'm I'm I'm no longer in harmony with what the official church uh their stance on Ellen White as a prophet and as an authority. Would you mind give us the date right around what time you begin to feel this way? Yeah. So, this was probably close of August into September. Probably around that time of 2024. 2024. Okay. Yeah. And actually, it's very interesting because I was leaving or preparing to leave for a uh an evangelistic series at that time out in California. And so, uh, and just to clarify, I know people's not going to agree with me on this point, and that's okay. But even even like the last year or so when I came to the point where I was questioning these two doctrines, again, still in belief of these doctrines in terms of of of, okay, I'm still a 7th Day Adventist. I still believe in these doctrines. I still want to uphold them when I'm communicating, but I still had questions about these things even about a year prior to this. Um, I I refrained from teaching or preaching publicly on these until I could feel 100% in my mind that that I was open I could openly teach these things with confidence. I believed them. And I know that's that to me that is that's a that's a it's kind of a conflict in some people's mind. Well, if you're questioning them, then you don't believe them. Well, I don't I don't think that that's the case in some cases because there's a lot of people I would even venture to say probably a large percentage of the 7th Day Adventist Church that believes and has faith in their church and what they teach and they stand on the fundamental belief teachings of this church, but they still have questions and they still have doubts about certain aspects of these teachings. I know this to be true because I've had thousands thousands of 7th day Adventist Christians and even some pastors who have reached out to me in the last few days since coming out with my first video who have confirmed these things. Now I know for instance you brother James and maybe many many other Seventh Day Adventists and who I highly respect. Um you guys may be watching this and hear my stance and hear the stances of these other people and say you know what I I believe it. I I believe that it's biblically true. I believe there's a judgment. believe in the spirit of prophecy, but there's some aspects of Ellen White's writings that I just don't fully understand. I don't why she said these things. I don't understand why this aspect of the investigative judgment is taught the way it is. That doesn't necessarily mean they're not committed seventh day Adventist Christians and uh and I know some people are very confident in their belief. Well, I believe everything about the investigative judgment. I believe everything and I'm confident about Ellen White's writings. It's been a journey for me, but I I have never and I just wanted to clarify this and this isn't just me like, oh, they found me out and I need to change my story. I've stuck to my story and it's the same and I'm gonna I'm going to stick with it because it's truth. And the fact of the matter is this can be confirmed with 3ABN. You can contact them. Okay? They know the story. They they've known this even before I was let go or or asked to resign. um that that I came to them uh as soon as I could, as soon as I had an opportunity, which was soon after I had dealt with this in my own heart that I I can't continue to hold these conclusions in my heart and then hide this and act like it's not a big deal. Now, I'm saying this not to lift myself up, but I know of pastors, ministers, conference officials right now that are in agreement with me on these things. Wait, wait. That are are that are that are terrified to speak out because they know they'll lose their job. So, you know, pastors, conference officials in the Seven Adventist Church right now. Who do not believe in the spirit of prophecy and the investigative judgment. Is that what you are saying? I'm saying that absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So, if I can go back a little bit, Ryan Day, and I think I owe you an apology publicly here because since you've cleared this matter for me, my misconception from your first video has a lot to do with the way I was connecting the dots in the light of what you've said as far as Ellen White. um you had doubt and struggle from the very moment and you've also explained on the phone with me which I totally respect the correction that uh you didn't have a chance to read the spirit of prophecy even before you became a 7-day adventist which is another point we're going to talk about here should people becoming should we be baptizing people into the advent church if they do not know and understand our theological position when it comes to spirit of prophecy and the writings of Ellen White so I think that's another thing that needs to be had and you said had some struggle from that point forward. But as far as believing the teachings of Ellen White and what she says, clearly you've taught them, you believe them, but your struggle began somewhere in 2024. You explain when you begin to have these doubts, but you took us back also in your video in 2022. So before we move on to that, I want to publicly apologize to you for misconception that I've had in a light of how this happened. So, I totally misconnected the dots here and I don't think that wasn't that wasn't right if I had gotten wrong. So, therefore, I owe you an apology. So, I want to publicly say that I'm sorry for mis misunderstanding your position when it comes to that. Sure, brother. I I appreciate that. And um that's what I love about you, man. I know I don't really know you, but even watching your your critique videos of of mine and even some of the videos that I've seen of yours that have nothing to do with me, I've watched a few of your videos on on your page and I could tell you're a very sincere, honest uh loving Christian man. And so I I that's why I reached out to you because I thought, yeah, I I feel like he would probably have a different position if he had all of the pieces of the puzzle. It's very difficult for to get the fullness of the picture in just an hour and 45 minutes or in two hours because there's a whole lot of elements to my story from the past leading up to now that would help make this journey make a whole lot more sense. Okay. Um, but I just wanted to clarify, you know, I I did when I came to that conclusion in my heart and mind. Not only did I come clean to 3BN, I was offered a pastoral position and actually was so much struggling with that in my heart because here's actually what was going through my heart in time. Again, people can judge me if they want, but this is my church. I've given 14 all of my almost my entire adult life to this church and and I love the church and I'm still very much 97 to 98% in harmony with many of the teachings of the church. Um but I'm I'm in my heart and mind I'm struggling with this. You know I I I don't just want to make this hard exit and just be like well you know what I'm no longer an agreement with fundamental belief 18 and 27 or excuse me yeah 18 and 24 excuse me and so I'm I'm leaving. I'm out of here. It was a it's, you know, it's hard for you to just uproot yourself. And so I gave myself some time to really think this through for about a month because while I was off at my evangelistic series, um, previous to this, I had been offered, you know, a a pastoral position. And I entertained that idea of, well, maybe I can transition into pastoral ministry, get out of the public eye, have more time to study, and work through some of these things, even though I had previously put three years in. But then again, I thought, no, I can't. I can in good conscience do that because again I'm still putting myself in the position of a 7th day Adventist pastor and I know I'm going to get questions from people this at some point that says hey pastor day what's what's your what's your idea or your perspective of LG White and and let's talk about this investigative judgment. I knew in my heart and mind you you just that's obvious. And so I ended up rejecting that offer. Uh and then I came clean with 3B and I had a meeting with them and I didn't have I mean I'm again I'm not lifting myself up here. I'm just simply saying I didn't have to tell them. They didn't know anything about it. And I was the general manager of the music network at 3abn and I could have just kind of, you know, hid behind the music and and and you know, I again, as a public figure on a worldwide platform going out to millions and millions of people, what good does it do for me to come clean or to tell this to anyone? I know that inevitably it's going to lead to some type of disconnect or separation. I knew that going into it. Um, and so when I went to 3ABN uh in in the fall of 2024, I I came I met with the administration uh and I just told them I said, "Look, this is where I met. I want you guys to be able to know it first. I don't want you hearing it through the grapevine. I don't want it coming out and and some other kind of I wanted you you to hear it straight from me. This is where I met on Ellen White the investigative judgment. And I simply can no longer at this point, you know, and I still say at this point right now to the public, I'm saying for what I know and what I've researched, I've not put this end all cap like end of story. And I I think that's with anything, right? I think that's with anything in our faith. Like when you come to a point where you you put a cap on something and say, I know all that there is to know about this subject or this content or this idea. I mean, you're lying to yourself because there's infantessimal uh amazing and like amazing infinite information, not infantessible in infinite information about subjects, matters and and and theology and and scripture and and so at this point in my life and I even put a clause into my my resignation from teaching and preaching because my my departure from 3ABN actually came in two phases. Okay, it first came of me saying look I you know I had shared these ideas with a couple of my colleagues at 3BN okay and a couple of them came to me and said man we don't feel comfortable with you know we want to present a united front okay I I get it I'm not going to kick it so I went to administration myself and I said look I'm not expecting to continue to teach and preach on this platform not in harmony with the uh with these two fundamental beliefs of the 7th day church understood and Um and I had even shared with them um I think my beliefs about the remnant you know teaching. I believe in the remnant teaching our fundamental belief on that. I believe there is a remnant church. What I do not believe is that the seventh day Adventist church institution alone is the remnant church of Bible prophecy. Okay. Okay. I believe I believe that God's remnant people are all over this world. Right. And and not just in the 7th day Adventist church. in the baptismal vows that I were brought in on in the baptismal vows that those 13 on the back of the official uh uh SDA church baptismal certificate. If you read those 13 points which are supposed to be a summation, okay, of the 20 fundamental beliefs. I was brought in on those. That's what the pastor used to me. By the way, if you read those, Ellen White's not mentioned in the in the baptismal vows. Mhm. Uh the investigative judgment's not mentioned in those 13 baptismal vows, but if you read on there, it does say that you agree with all the fundamental teachings of the 7th Day Adventist Church. Okay. Okay. And so, um, that being said, I I knew I knew that that, um, I I'm no longer in harmony with that, but I had an issue also on the baptismal vows where it says that the Seventh Day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy. Now, this language is not directly used in the actual official fundamental belief on the remnant church. Okay? If you go read that in the fundamental belief, that strong, you know, kind of exclusive language is not used in the actual fundamental belief, but it's used in the baptismal vows. Okay. I I hear you. So, so that being said, I I I express, you know, again, those three things. I believe in the remnant. I don't believe the Adventist church is the only remnant. I disagree with the investigative judgment teaching currently as it is communicated in Adventism. And I disagree with Ellen White as an authority. I shared that with them and and we cleared the air and they said, "You know what? Um Tim Pardon was not uh uh you know a 7th Day Adventist and so um he was our general manager of the Pra Music Network and we see no reason why we can't allow you to continue to be our general manager for music." So this is again in harmony with administration. I wasn't hiding anything. I wasn't trying to do some backdoor cut just to continue to make money at the same time. And I'm going to be honest with this. Um, I've given my whole adult life to this church. And so I haven't built some career for me outside the church. So I knew inevitably in the back of my mind that down the road at some point I was planning in the days, weeks, months to come that I was going to do it honorably and put in that twoe notice when I have built something for me and my wife that we can uh make money and and be able to pay our bills but until then be able to again within harmony with 3ABN serve as the general manager of of the Praa Music Network without teaching publicly theologically or instructing theologically. Okay. I I like that. I mean I I just wanted to clarify that. I think this is good and I hope it is clear. It's clear for me at least in the way that I have actually process this. So I think it's only fair to say um yeah I I think I respect that. I think it's commendable. Uh not in a light that I agree with your position. Not at all. I think there is we have some clear disagreements. I respect the fact that you say, "I'm having these doubts. I no longer believe these things." Um, okay. I'm I'm stepping out. And and what you've also said, there are people who are still being paid by Seven Day Adventists who no longer believe these teachings. And you know those who these individuals are. Now, you're not saying any names. Can you pause? Can you pause quickly and give a message to these people? And I I I would like for you to speak to these people, whoever they are, who are standing in this position as Seventh Day Adventist, when you know they do not believe. What would you like to say to them in the light of your personal experience with the church? Yeah. So, you know, the the challenge is is that when you start talking to some of these individuals, they all have interpretive perspectives of how to view these fundamental beliefs. So, you know, some people can uh can take positions on things that they will say they believe in their mind are in harmony with the fundamental beliefs of the church. So, they'll make that statement, but I believe in Ellen White's inspired. They'll say things like that. I believe Ellen White is inspired or I believe Ellen White made inspired statements. But when you start to really dig deep into the heart and mind of these individuals, you find out that you know what they, you know, they'll say things just like I say currently. I say, "You know what? I believe Ellen White wrote some inspired things." I've even heard many of her harshest critics say, "Yeah, she wrote some very inspiring things." Do they do we as critics see that as inspired on a profit level, an authoritative level? No. Because to me, authority and inspiration are two different things. I believe you, Brother James, are very inspired in much of the things that you communicate. You preach and teach inspiring things on your channel and in your communications. But am I about to say that your words are authoritative to carry over in a prophetic sense? And I think that's the difference. But these individuals out there, you know, I I really don't find myself in the position to condemn anyone or to judge anyone. But I will say for me, I can't speak for others, but I can say for me personally, I could not in good conscience continue to tell myself, hey, I'm not in full harmony with the Seventh Day Adventist Church fundamental beliefs as it's received and and taught and and and uh you know, declared and proclaimed within 7th Day Adventism, fundamental 7th Adventism, and continue to to portray myself as an authoritative theological figure in this church. Uh, and that's exactly what I was doing on 3ABN. That's exactly what I was doing prior to 3ABN. And so in in this case, not what I mean by what I was able to do, I was that could easily be taken out of context. I mean in the sense that I was preaching with authority uh and and instruction in three prior to that. But when I came to the conclusion that in my heart based on the evidences that I had viewed and that I had seen up to that point, I came to the conclusion that I personally could no longer um be in a position where I am saying I am a you know in harmony 7th day Adventist believer whose beliefs were in harmony with with the 20 fundamentals and continuing portraying that knowing that I'm that I'm not. Um I I say these things that I just said earlier about how I know people are inside the church, ministers, conference officials and things who have expressed these type of things to me and have told me that if they came out and said these things publicly if they came out and put them on Facebook, on YouTube, in a comment section, in a video, in a sermon, they wouldn't have their job next week. or at least they would probably be put on some type of extended sbatical to figure out their theology before they're allowed to continue to preach. And so I guess my message to those brothers and sisters who are out there, my message would be, you know what, continue to study and and allow the Holy Spirit to lead you what you should do. I don't know. And that decision to me was easy for me. I can't continue in this making the world think that I am in harmony with these teachings when I'm not. Okay. I think I think that that sets you apart here. the fact you were willing to step out and say if I don't believe these things I can no longer teach them. I would rather not not be a member of the Adventist church anymore. Uh you don't want to live a double life. So I think this is fair because uh I think I wish everyone who does not believe what we believe as a 7th day Adventist. I wish they will do the same thing like stop confusing stop the confusion and the hypocrisy and step out and uh that's fair and that's reasonable and if I'm same thing with Catholicism I was raised in it when I begin to realize the Catholic church doesn't align with the Bible I leave it alone I step out okay eventually became a 7day adventist it's just what it's been and thank God for the truth that he has given us as a 7day adventist I'm not ashamed of it I think uh we have some amazing truths to work with but there is one question I want to ask you is uh for example in Psalms 1 verse one right we have blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly nor standeth in the way of sinners nor seated in a seat of the scornful so it's like a step you can see a step of an individual who pretty much goes into an area what we will refer to as apostasy now while I cannot say you an apostate I will say you have definitely stepped away from some doctrinal beliefs that some people would consider that to be a step toward apostasy which could lead to greater apostasy. So it's one when you talk about apostasy it's when a person no longer believes something that he used to believe. And apostasy is much more than just hey he is completely lost. You know, for me, I'm an I'm a I'm a Catholic apostate in a sense, right? I'm a some people can be a Presbyterian apostate, but once you reject a previous theological belief by the definition of the term itself, that makes you an apostate, but that doesn't automatically means you are lost. And I think people have to be careful with the wording. So, when you begin to listen to Dr. Allan Davis. Would you say that was the wisest choice to make knowing where this guy had already gone and was been written on paper and how far into the deep end he's gone? Do you think having made that decision to listen to him wasn't the wisest one? Um, no. Because I think that I'm I have control over what information comes in here and how I process that. And so, um, it's just like you you you have watched critics videos. I have to believe that you've seen some critic present information that is not in harmony with what you believe to be fundamental Adventist teaching. Correct. Okay. When you listen to that, do you find yourself being disoriented and not be able to process what you believe to be true and not true? Good question. U, there are two there are some levels of critics. For example, I'm careful with 7th day adventist critics who were once part of the seventh adventist church. The reason that is their level of criticism is so intertwined with so much of the truth that we believe. So when they make that jerking that twist, you may not always catch that. Sometime I can look at a seven a person who is not a seventh day adventist who is criticized a seven adventist church and I can pinpoint very clearly where they're going and how far they've departed from the basic truth of the Bible. But when a former 7 minutes is doing it is somewhat a little bit different. It's more cunning. It's more subtle and it it it can be uh the deception is very much intertwined with so much truth in it. When it is said and is embied and accepted, sometime we don't realize that. So I I I even when I do these videos, there are a lot of stuff people sent me that I prayerfully do not listen to. Some things people sent me and I said this guy, I cannot listen to him because I I understand influence is power. I'm vulnerable and we all told not to entertain certain things. So I'm wondering if you had never entertained Dr. Allen Davis thoughts on these things would those thoughts may have given life to some of the struggles you were given. That's what led you down this road. This is a thought of mine and many of us have thought that and I would like for you to respond to that. Do you think it has nothing to do with it or was you were going to go that direction irrespective of Allan Davis? Yeah. No, I was I was already um feeling as if I needed to go open that closet door and view things contrary to my current opinion well before I ever came into Dr. Alan Davis's videos. Okay. the the the the questioning and some of the doubtful tendencies in my mind towards some of our explanations of Ellen White, some of our explanations of some of the things she she wrote um the explanations and uh um the teachings on on support for the investigative judgment nature of that pre-vent judgment. I had already been looking at those for two or three years before and kind of going, "Man, like like I I believe this, but man, we got to find a better way to to to because that's a little weakened to me. That's weak. That doesn't really provide a a strong exogetical response from the Bible." So, those thoughts were already there before I ever came into Allen Davis. Allan Davis is just a friend of mine. And I know how people are going to perceive that part of my testimony. are going to think, "Oh, you know, he he listened to Allan Davis' videos and then the devil entered in and took him off." Well, I could, you know, I'm a firm believer. I've always been this type of person in my studies. I'm not afraid to take the strongest information against my faith and put it to the strongest test of of criticism and put it to a deep deep search to see if those things are so. I would have never became a Seventh Day Adventist if I wasn't like that. Now, if I was telling you my let's say let's wipe let's for let's speak for a moment hypothetically here. Let's wipe away everything that that's ever happened to me in Adventism including my story. Let's take me back uh I don't know 18 18 20 years ago when I was a Pentecostal Christian strongly in the faith strongly a Pentecostal believer and then someone comes along and shares with me a set of Bible study guides from 7th Day Adventism shares with me a video series by Doug Bachelor and Mark Finley and Kenneth Cox and and some of those other phenomenal preachers of of Advent Adventist I believe we're not gonna if I if you were interviewing me right now about how I came out of Pentecostalism and came into Adventism, we wouldn't even be having this conversation about were you really what what was your concern about entertaining those videos? No, you would be saying, "Praise God, you you you were brave enough to challenge your faith. You were brave enough to look into that information and because of it, you know, you came, this is the words we would use, you came out of darkness and into light." Well, from the Pentecostal perspective, they're looking, you've apostasized, you entertained those Adventist ministers. You entertain those Adventist study guides. you you started studying with these Adventists and that's the problem. You open that door and the devil carried you away. It's the same mentality. And so what I've always promised in my studies is that I will be real. I will be try to be I know we all have a bias, but try my best to be as unbiased as possible. And I'm not afraid for the strongest person to come to me and say, "Hey, you're absolutely wrong about the Sabbath. And I've got proof. I've got the smoking gun proof that's going to bury your whole idea of the Sabbath. Here's a five-part series where I'm totally going to destroy your belief in the Sabbath. You know what? Let me hear it. I want to watch it because I'm very confident in my faith about the Sabbath. I'm very confident in my faith about the state of the dead. I'm very confident in my faith about the the second coming of Christ. I'm very confident in my faith on the uh the hellfire teaching of what we believe the Bible to teach about hellfire. I'm very confident on the clean and unclean differentiation. I can go down the list. I I think the moment as believers inside any denomination, we say to our believers, "Oh, you should never entertain those things." Well, it is possible. And I get I get it from the perspective of someone who's not rooted and grounded in the faith. That's what I was going to say. I was I was rooted and grounded in Adventism. You know, I can give Bible studies with Seventh Day Adventist to the best of them. if me and you uh had some open discussion uh about the beliefs and the intricacies of the indepth uh um aspects of how we come to the conclusions of 7th day Adventist theology. I can talk with the best of them. I can carry on intelligent conversation. I'm not saying I know it all. I'm certainly not saying I'm a scholar cuz I'm not. But I've studied into these things enough to know it so well that I'm confident in what I believe. So Allan Davis is just a friend of mine. I don't believe everything he promotes and teaches. I'm not. He's uh he's he's gone far into the deep end, man. Uh he's got to a point where he's even denying the Sabbath and he's connecting it to the person of Jesus Christ alone. Uh there's some things there that I've listened to and I said, I will not entertain this guy at all. Some people are in a comment right now saying I'm entertaining you for talking to you. So they're saying they're saying they're saying yeah in a sense they're saying if we can't have this dialogue and coming from a for and again we're not having a deep theological discussion. We're just openly talking to each other and about some things we agree and disagree with our differences. We can't even have this dialogue. We're in a bad place as a Christian. And I think but I would go back to what you said. There are times though when you are weak on a particular doctrinal point. is different than you can be a strong 7day adventist and have some weakness in some areas and you said you've had some weakness when it comes to Ellen White you know some weakness when it comes to the investigative judgment in the way that it is interpreted and stuff like that but when you go to for example Alan Davis he attacks those two areas of the church and I think if those two weaknesses that you had listening to him could have played a role could have added to the skepticism and the doubts and we are told uh even Ellen White tells us. And again, even people who don't believe and like I've said, you still you still believe in Ellen White to a degree. I believe 100% in her writings. I think she is either inspired or she's not, I'm I'm a different perspective as I I would rather make my argument on the weight of evidence rather than the few skeptics and misunderstanding and misconception that I have. It's like similar. You kind of have to be careful in a sense that I've, you know, you've gone through theology, some I'm pretty sure you've gone through uh some theological school and you've learned the arguments from the atheists, from the Satanist about the Bible, they find things that can be somewhat questionable in scripture. But when you do a little bit of deeper study, you will realize, hm, there may be things in the scripture that are not always clear. So, what do you do with those doubts? Well, you kind of have to look at look at the weight of evidence. Do we have enough evidence given us? Has there been given enough light in the scripture to balance against the few things that we have yet to fully understand? I think there's some things in the Bible until I get to heaven, I may never fully understand that. And there's some things I just okay, you know what? I I don't know what this was about, but Jesus, when I see you face to face, I got some questions, you know. But I think the same position, the same application can be made to the spirit of prophecy. There are things you will find in the spirit of prophecy that you will say, "Okay, what does she mean by that? Okay, I have to look a little bit deeper into that." But the weight of evidence when it comes to what the Bible says and what Ellen White says and you carefully balance is like, yo, she's like over 90 something% correct and in line in scripture with what is said. Anybody who says 100% is like they're pretty much claiming calling her to be infallible. And I don't believe that. But I will say from a theological perspective, prophetic perspective, historical perspective, Ellen White is so good on these things and you could tell this is solely inspired from my perspective. There's no doubt in my mind. So I think when you when we start picking the things um we all told in GC if we find if we look for hooks to hang our dots upon, we'll find them. And then if we get hooked on those little hooks, we can eventually go on down a viral a very dark spiral. And I think that might have happened to you. You don't believe this is one of those things. You kind of hung on to those hooks that you should have e eventually surrender them to the Lord and keep moving or by trying to entertaining those thoughts that's what led you down this path. Would you agree with my assessments on that? Oh no. I I wouldn't agree with that because you're speaking from the perspective of what you know and I'm speaking from the perspective of what I know. So for instance, you made the statement earlier. You said, you know, you your your two areas of weakness was Ellen White and the investigative judgment. I would disagree with you. I guarantee you if you and I uh came together and started talking about in-d depth these two topics, there's probably many many many things that I have discovered you haven't. And maybe there's some things that you've discovered I haven't. But the point I'm getting at is that I was very strong on the writings of Ellen White in my mind at that time based on what I had read. And I had read a lot of her writings. And I was very strong in my mind at that time and before on the investigative judgment based on what I knew and what I could confirm in scripture within what I've studied. But when you start digging into things and finding evidences and start asking questions um and and looking for answers to those questions and you're not finding the answers that they're just simply not there, you have to start questioning things. For instance, you you personally, brother, and anyone for that matter, and I'm going to be releasing these things in the in the days and weeks to come, but um you know, for instance, many people hold an opinion about Ellen White because of just simply the culture they've been brought into in Adventism. Well, this is what my church believes. I'm going to believe that. And they will read certain books and read certain inspiring things that she wrote. And that further strengthens that as it did with me. I came into the church. I didn't really believe in Elite. I'd never read her writings. The pastor gave me the conflict of the ages series and said, "Go read her books and let me know what you think." I started reading. I started seeing some incredible amazing things based on how my mind was computing at that time based on the beautiful things that I was able to comprehend from her writings. It became easier for me to say, "Yeah, this this woman was clearly inspired. Wow, it's amazing the things she wrote." And and here's the big one that Adventism uses. And I know we're not going to get into the entry. I know we're not here I'm not here to argue Ellen White, but these things come into play when you're asking these questions like, "Oh, well, making statements like, well, you were weak on these points." I was not weak on Ellen White. I very much was 100% staunch supporter of Ellen White at one time until I discovered things that the average Adventist don't talk about, that the church does not address. You may find some articles written on the Ellen White estate that may address some of these things. You may find a Kevin Morgan or a Jud Lake that might occasionally address some of these things, but I was not finding any arguments from my perspective that was strong enough to make me go, "Yeah, yeah, that's it. That that is the the the question for me. I'm I'm hearing some of the responses and I'm going that really doesn't really address this and it doesn't address this." And you know, when you start getting into again, and I know recently the church, by the way, I want to also clarify something because a lot of people have come out and said, "Oh, Pastor Mark Finley addressed Ryan Day, the Ryan Day thing with the whole plagiarism. If if the church was paying attention, that video that Mark Finley released or that the church released for Mark Finley or actually it was Mark Finley on his website that he released about the plagiarism, he released that weeks ago before I ever posted my video. It went public. It went on his uh on his YouTube channel. and for some odd reason it was removed. And then as soon as my video dropped just a day or two after he reposted that video because of the the controversy that had come about because of my video. So I just want to clarify that. I'm glad I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that. But I've also heard that they knew you were going to go out publicly. The word was already out. Uh, also Pastor John L McCain in his remark to his church, he gave the warning which you said you were going to respond to. They he knew and he's also planning on responding to some of these claims in doing a series. Why did he know? Why did he know? He didn't know well in advance. He only knew one day in advance. That's when that's when you make that when you make a Facebook post. my fif the the the only time the very first time the world or anyone knew okay other than my wife or my immediate family knew that I was going to be addressing my leave from 3ABM and my issues with Adventism was the day or two before my video posted. I made a YouTube or excuse me a Facebook post advertising that I was going to be going live and addressing this. Prior to that I had not informed 3ABN. They did not know when I was going live until I made that public Facebook post. I Okay, that's that's huge. Um, thank you for that. You know, just talking about John L McCain a little bit, like what part of his statement do you have a an a disagreement with? Because I think he was fair warning his church that this guy is is stepping out and had to make some tough decisions. You said you had some disagreement with what he had to say. Could you could you explain why you disagreed because I thought he was fair. Yeah. Well, the one one of the things he mentions, he says he opens a statement toward the beginning. It's not the very beginning, but toward the introduction of his statement, he says um you know, when I found he says, and I'm I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said it a roundabout way. When I found out that 3ABN had exercised all of the reasons to keep Ryan here and Ryan chose to leave, that's not true. because it was already agreed that while I had already submitted my resignation from teaching and preaching that I was going to continue to at least produce music for 3AB and and use my musical gifts to to praise God and to lead out in the in the music network. Um and so when when we came together with the uh administration to have that meeting that kind of that separation meeting I am I even challenged the 3ABN uh administration. I said, "I think this is unfair because that this wasn't redemptive in any way. You weren't trying to eat here." There are, you realize there are people, they're not they're not public figures, but there are people at 3abn that don't even really believe in God. And I know this to be the case, and I'm not throwing them on the bus. I'm just saying 3ABN has a v, you know, they're very redemptive. They they they're they're wonderful, good people, and they give people chances and they hire people that aren't necessarily strong strong Seventh Day Adventist Christian. Okay, that that's a fair assessment. But you said there are people at 3BN that don't even believe in God that are functioning there. Okay. So please don't take that and and go with it and try to Yeah. Can you go a little bit deeper in what people that are that are behind the scenes running running equipment or things that that are on that? Yeah. They're working as part of a business in a sense, right? They're working. They're not a public figure. They're out there representing Seventh Day Adventism. Got it. These are the these are people and again I I made that statement because it is a true statement and it's very well known within 3BN and maybe even outside 3ABN. I'm making that statement not to bash 3BN because they have every right to hire who they want. Yes. Uh but the point I'm getting at is this. Uh the point I'm getting at is that it was said that everything was done to try to keep Ryan here and he chose that technically was not the case because in that meeting that day when they told us we needed to separate, my wife and I were in tears and we're like what are we going to do? we're going to go. Like just two or three days ago, my job is safe and now because of one comment, you realize there are and I I want to say this to preface what I'm about to say. I understand. I get it that hey Ryan, you're not the average guy here. You're up here. You're there's a whole lot of more accountability held for you than this person down here. And I get that. And and I'm not fighting that concept. I'm not I acknowledge that concept that there is with much power, much responsibility. I get that. I understand that. At the same time, you know, they didn't even offer me the opportunity to keep my job in some other department that had nothing to do with minurial. You know, they could have said, well, look, you know, and and the opportunity, the option that was given me was, look, we don't want to censor you, Ryan. We know you want to share your gifts and whatnot. And I appreciate that sentiment. But the idea was if you stay here at all and and the concept that was shared with me was we we can talk to the board about this. We don't know if they're going to approve it, but if we can convince the board maybe would you agree to just take down your dayby-day podcast, never make another podcast, never make another post, and just never go out and preach. You just work behind the scenes and and do your thing, but not do anything. And so they were making it they were basically making it to the point where they knew how absurd that was that I was going to say, "Yeah, I can't accept that because I'm going to share Christ. I'm going to share my convictions. I'm going to sing. I'm going to use my gifts." And that was what was being told me that if you remain here, that's got to be kind of the terms. So the idea that Pastor Lomma King shared that everything was was was uh was done to keep Ryan here, but you know, Ryan chose to leave, that's not entirely true. It is true in the sense that I had already recognized that my differences in fundamental beliefs was inevitably ending me up in a transition down the road to where I was going to do it the right way and say, "Hey, I'm putting in my two weeks notice. I've built a little something over here for me and my wife. I I I don't want to hold you guys to this anymore of having to, you know, wonder if I'm going to post this or post that." And I had even told three of the uh administration on several occasions that if I ever felt the need to go public with any of this, I would resign totally from working for them if I ever felt the need. So it was that public Facebook comment which I still disagree uh with them on the fact that they thought it was a violation of our agreement. But pastor, back to Pastor LM King again, I love Pastor Lang. I have nothing bad to say about the man in the sense that he's brilliant. He's sharp. I know he loves the Lord. I know he's a he's a sturdy I mean strong committed Seventh Day Adventist minister and I believe that that man is is is wonderful in many aspects but it to call me brother to say we love Ryan and then go public and and equate me to Lucifer drawing a third of the stars of heaven. Equate me to a wolf in sheep's clothing. you know, equate me to someone who has apostasized and left left the Lord, left the faith, and then tell all of his congregants, you know, uh, don't go and listen to this, but if you do, you if you feel like you're being, come back and talk. He was painting me as this this again evil apostate person that's just out to deceive and to destroy it. That's not my intentions at all, and he knows that. But he's got to do his thing as pastor because again he feels threatened that I have the ability to communicate well. I have the ability to take information and share that information. He knows that and he knows that I have friends in that congregation. He knows that I have people that I am dearly close to that love me and that I love them and and so I'm not angry with his his ability to protect and his willingness to protect uh and his responsibility to protect his his uh congregation. But to go public like that and equate your brother in Christ who has two or three theological differences of belief. We're not talking about Christ here. We're not talking about the Sabbath. We're not talking about the law. We're not talking about some of these major fundamental biblical. We're talking about is the invest is the judgment investigative. Okay? And to some Adventists that that's a big deal. I believe in a pre-advent judgment. I've said it. It's biblical. I don't deny that. Is is Jesus going to do and has he been doing a judgment prior to the second coming of of his arrival? Absolutely. I don't deny that. I just don't agree with the investigative aspect. I disagree. I have an issue with where that investigative concept leads to. So you James may may understand that one way, but I have seen within the culture of Seventh Day Adventism, it leads people to a very legalistic works approach to salvation. Maybe not all, maybe not all Adventist. I'm not saying that, but but it but it definitely does. I've seen that. And so so because we're dis and here's another thing and and Pastor Lang, I I will I have no problem speaking to him if he's watching this and he wants to contact me. He's got my number. He know he knows he knows how to contact me. Um, Pastor Lman King was my pastor. And and I think where I was also um a little shocked by all of how all that went down is the week that I was let go from 3BN, Pastor Lom King did reach out to me through text message. I was on my way out to Florida to do a music event and I was in the airport in Charlotte, North Carolina when I received his message. Hey Ryan, I'm out of town right now, but when I get back from my pastor's meeting, I'd like to sit down and talk with you. Now, at that time, I was rushing through, you know, there was a lot going on in airport. You've been in busy airports. I saw the message. I forgot to respond to him because I was really, really busy. I didn't ignore him on purpose. I just forgot to get back with him. But he did end up seeing me the very next week. So this is the week after I got fired. He saw me in the grocery store. He came right up to me. We stopped in the middle of that grocery store. We talked and exchanged just like we had always been brothers in Christ. And he said to me, "Ryan, um, love you, brother. Missing you. You know, I know you're going on this journey, but hey, um, you know, I would like to meet with you sometime. You know, I want to come sit down with you and talk with you. Are you okay with that?" I said, "Absolutely." He said, 'Well, I might drop into your house sometime when I see your truck there or whatever. And I told him, I said, "You're welcome over anytime. You've got my phone number. Just text me, call me before you want to come over. We'll sit down and we'll talk." That day in the grocery store, only one week after I was let go. That was the last week of January was the last time Pastor Lang ever spoke to me since then. He lived, he was my next door neighbor, just right down the road from me, just not too far. Right down the road. We were neighbors. Mhm. He d drives by my house every day to go to church. He drives by my house every day to go to 3ABN. Okay? He can see when my vehicles are there. He has my phone number. As a pastor, and I'm not saying that he would be able to change my mind or or convince me otherwise for my beliefs, but I would think that as a pastor of my my pastor, he would be able to uphold that at least come by and and attempt try. Um, but to release a statement that strong as he did uh a couple of weeks ago or or a little over a week ago, to release a statement that strong and to equate me as an apostate without ever taking the time to honor your word and saying you were going to come and talk with me, brother, that's I mean, come on, man. And I may disagree with you theologically, but I'm never going to go online and and and and berate you and slander your your your spiritual character before the world, James. I would never do, even though I disagree with I'm not going to make a video saying, "Oh, look at this. Look at what look at what James said here. He's an evil. He's Let me give me Let me show you what's happening here. Let's go to Revelation. He's equivalent to, you know, the the drawing of the third or the stark. He's like Lucifer. He's trying to take the people out. That's not what I'm trying to do. Let me see. Ryan Day, I tell you what, I this point here, I 100% agree with you. Uh I think uh I've listened to Pastor John McCain. I'm I love John McCain. He's got the he's got the ability to speak the word of God with so much grace. That man is very thoughtful. I've heard people speaking negative about him. I don't speak negative of the man. Some things I disagree with this idea that you cannot hold and speak truth to power. you cannot hold the leaders accountable for anything that they doing publicly, you know. Anyway, that's one aspect. And he also believes we cannot say anything negative about the church. Um, even when we have clear document evidence where there's been a pastor, what do you expect? Right. So, these are some areas where I disagree with him. But his failure here and this is a fair criticism. If Pastor John L McCain is thinking about this, I guess it's not too late to redeem uh to make a right decision. He deserves uh he needs to go back and actually go back and talk to you and and show cuz you guys you done some you done ministry together. You sang together, you've traveled the world together. And I think uh he could have done handled this better. And I hope he really takes the time to do that after hearing what you had to say. Whether he does or he doesn't, I still love that brother to death. I know him, him and Angelma King are some of the most incredible people. Um, wonderful people, very sweet lady, extremely gifted, extremely talented. And, um, um, I mean, we've shared so many great moments together, great music moments, preaching moments, teaching moments. Um, and so I have nothing I I not hold a personal vendetta in my heart against John Lomang, but I strongly disagree in the way that he threw his brother under the bus and and and and used the strong language that he did without first contacting me. I would I would see I still would disagree with it even if he did it this way. But I would see it more so if he came to my house or if he called me on the phone or we set up a Zoom call or whatever prior to him making that that personal address. If he would have attempted and I was being hateful, if I was showing a strong, you know, recalcitrant spirit of some kind, I would see maybe why that might spark him to say, "Hey, look, I tried to reason with the guy. He was ugly. He was hateful. He was this. He was that." Um, I'm seeing things in him that is now leading me to regretfully, but yet I have to say warn you about this man. And but that's not what I got. I didn't get that that I just got this blast of stay away from him. He's he's an apostate. He's going to lead you out of the the faith of God and it's like come on. That's the same that's the same message I'm getting from a lot of people too. They're like you don't even need to reach out to him and speak to him. But some people in the comments disagree with that. I disagree with it as well. Uh it's one thing to be thoughtful in a way that we talk about these matters. Uh but I think making an effort to reach out and speak to a brother uh to see what we can learn from each other and agree and disagree um I don't think that's that's wrong to do and I think pastor John Lain uh yeah he has to make the right decision here by giving you a call and eventually go back and talk to you cuz I think uh you do have some things that you say that I will respectfully I will agree with. As far as the theological position is concerned I I'm not really convinced by that. Uh, I've heard all of these arguments. I've gone to Andrews and I've sat with theology students and pastors and I've listened to the history of 7day Adventist Heritage and I've heard all the arguments about Ellen White. So, it's like I haven't heard them. I've heard them, but they are not they are nothing that will I would say will shake my faith and confidence. But there are some things that are questionable. There are some things that are questionable. There are some points that are raised that people can consider, but it's nothing that will drive me away from But because the amount the amount of evidence and truth the weight of evidence that I found is so much more to believe than not to believe. So that's kind of where my position. So James, I want to I want to address something one more time before we if we end or before we transition to something else. I want to go back to Alan Davis for just a moment. I don't I don't see myself it's not my responsibility to take up for this brother or to defend him in any way, form or fashion. And that's not what I'm trying to do. But I am trying to be fair. Okay? And the fairness is this. I think and I I've said this to Allan. he knows how I feel about this and I've said this openly publicly. I don't agree with all of the points that Alan Davis believes theologically and I say that that's where I'm currently at. I can hear some of the things he says and I'm like, you know, I don't know if I I I take that position. But but I will say this, you know, James, I think you can even relate and resonate with this concept. And that is um before you have been able to walk a day in the shoes of another man and before you've been able to understand where that man's come from, what he's experienced, what he's been through, and before you uh are able to sit down with that person and get to know them. It's it's it's it's it should not ever be in our freedom to go after a person because of how we perceive them to be in a video or on I've had so many do you know the thousands of people that have written me even when I was in harmony with Adventism when I was a staunch Adventist believer in all 28 fundamental beliefs Ellen 3AB and preaching my heart out using Ellen White being the best possible Adventist I could be the nasty nasty hateful letters and comments that I would get from thousands of Adventists just because they got a vibe by watching me. Well, you I didn't like the way you looked. I didn't like the look on your face. I didn't like the way you were you were you were raising your voice. I didn't like your body language. I didn't like how you said this or said that. You know, until you've been in the public eye, until you've been under that scrutiny, until you you've had that tsunami of pressure on you. And I'm not I'm not saying that I regret it. I'm not saying that I'm complaining about it. I would do it tenfold over again because I loved what I did there and I still love what I do. But when you've been in that position, it's easy for us to look at a brother, hear what they're saying, read their expressions, read their vocal tone, and misjudge something into them about them that's simply not true and mischaracter them. I will say until you get to know the I think if you had Allan Davis on your program and I think Matt Par was it Matt Par or Michael Parra um brother had Allan Davis on recently in the past um couple of months um you will see that Allan is not this combative you just got to get to know the brother and I think that when you watch some of his videos he is very he can come across as very strong direct to the point um he's just he's that it's that military mind he was 20 something 27 almost 30 years or more in in the in the Air Force that kind of comes out and until you read the man personally and get to know him. Um, I hear everybody throwing the hate his way. And let me tell you something, I can again, like I said, I'm not saying I agree with everything he says, but I know the man enough to know that when you're sitting down, you really get to know him. He's not this hateful apostate, you know, back. He loves Christ. He loves the word of God. He loves the Bible. And again, I think it's important that before we go publicly blasting someone and mischaracterizing them, we can judge them for the theology. We can disagree with their theology. But to go at them and say, "I don't like this man's spirit. I don't like this or that." And and try to mischaracterize someone when sometimes, and I and I've been I've I've had this issue, brother. Sometimes my passion and my drive for what I love about the Bible and love truth, sometimes it comes across as, you know, sometimes arrogance or, oh, this guy puffed up or he has an ego or he has this or that. And I hear people say those things to me and I'm like, man, and those are the kind of things that I I hate the most. I'm like, I don't I don't want to be that way. I don't want people to perceive me that way. And so, I think it's it's just important. I think it would go right back with you. I I could make response videos to you and have my audience thinking that you're just the the worst guy in the world and and it's not it's not true, right? Some Some have already done that. Some have already done that. I got plenty. Listen, Pastor James have plenty of enemies online and you have some enemies as well of the game. It's the nature of the game. I tell you what, I'm not your enemy. I I said I said from the start, I'm not going to be an enemy of Ryan Day. Don't think this is going to happen. And I'm not going to keep making videos about what Ryan Day said. I said, "No, we agree and disagree here." Uh, but the man deserves some respect. And I I totally agree. But when it comes to Allan Davis, I will say I won't entertain him. I've listened to some things. He's already gone too far down that valley. And I think character is character, but theological misconception, denial of biblical truths is something else, man. And I think that stuff is not safe. I will not even expose my audience. I the reason you here is because I feel safe having this conversation with you. Having learn having talked to you. Even though we have some disagreement, I've listened to you and I said I can agree with the guy. I love his attitude. I I think there's some things he's got wrong. But I think we can clear the air off some things here as well. So that's why we we having this conversation. That's why I felt the need to invite you. But Allan Davis is is a whole he's living in a whole different world, man. Well, I I that's your that's your freedom, brother, and choice to have that. And I don't hate I don't hate you for that. And I don't kick you for that. That's your choice. I will say this, though. I have a question for you. You know, you you used the word I feel safe with you. And and to me that that just amazes me because you know even pastor Lomma King has stood up and made these type of claims before which I somewhat disagreed with him but he would go to Matthew 24 often times and he would say you know if it were possible if it were possible that verse where it says if it were possible uh that the elect should be deceived. If it were possible and he would make the point it's not possible in the last days when God's true elect spiritfilled remnant people are full of the spirit of God. uh it's not possible for them to be deceived. And uh and so to hear you say something like, "I feel safe with you, not maybe so much with Allen Davis or anyone else for that matter." I I just find that interesting because I feel like if we're being led by the spirit of God and we truly are rooted and grounded in truth, why in the world would we fear hearing an opposing idea or even what may even seem to be like apostate, you know, backwards, totally incompatible teachings with the word of God. If I'm confident in what I believe and I disagree with you and you come at me and say, "I want to share something with you, Ryan, because I think you're absolutely wrong, I'm not going to fear talking to you because you disagree with me." Or you might have some big, you know, amazing smoking gun proof to prove me wrong. Correct. I I welcome that because I'm le if I'm being led by the spirit of God, my confidence is in the power of God to lead me to truth, not in the devil to take me away from truth. I understand that some people do allow the devil to take them away and and and I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that. There are you can go too far into this because uh while it is true we should be firm and in our position but we also have to know and acknowledge our own human frailty and vulnerability like irrespective of how strong we think we are right Peter thought he was strong Peter thought he had it figured out but irrespective of how strong we think we are there are times we go too far into the deep end there are times when we dive we some of us can't swim uh and sometime we think we can swim until we actually are thrown in the midst I will say there are some theological debates that I I tend to stay away from them because they're not enriching. They don't really get anything done. Our conversation here is not a debate. That's why we having this conversation. Uh I actually don't do debate on my channel, but I will bring a person who left the church before and we sat down and we talked and I had Dr. Colton Baldwin here. If you know the history of that guy, he's gone completely berserk. And he I I've allowed him to bring some things in here, but I after thinking about it, I'm like maybe that wasn't the wisest choice because he was saying things, but it was very clear what he was saying was a lie. I wanted him to say it so people can see this man wasn't telling the truth. And it was in a comment, it was clear. It was debunked by so many people in the comment. But nevertheless, it's not something I love to do though because uh there are people who watch our channel who may be weak in a faith, right? And when they hear these conversations, they get entertained and they start wondering and you know and they get hooked up by the hooks and they go far. So yeah, you you quoted Matthew 24:24 that in the light of in the light of the antichrist power and also the impersonation of Satan. The Bible says the elect cannot be deceived in a sense that we're not going to fall for the deception of the enemy when he comes because we are grounded in the truth. But I think when we go into unchanted ground, we go there with the presumption that we cannot fall. We got this figured out. And I think it's a it's a big mistake. And sometime we will find out, oh, I can be influenced and I can be misled. I'm very weak. I'm very vulnerable and I got to know when it's God's will to go here, when it's not God's will to go there. I don't go to a Sunday keeping church to listen to their sermons. is not because I don't know what they're saying, but just the environment, the influence, the people, their smile, their look, and everything. All of that plays a role in the way that the message is received and processed. And uh all of that is some of the reasons why we are told to stay away. Um and and I'm very careful sometime. I I don't always make that decision, but sometime I have to pray and say, you know what, we will not do that. There's been people recommended to me that I've looked into them. I've asked some questions. I have some people that I will talk to. Even before I talked to you, I had to call a few people. They say, "Yeah, that's a good conversation to have. I think you should definitely bring them on, you know, and and there's some people that I bring to them, they say, "No, James, let me tell you this, brother." Boom, boom, boom. And they laid some things for me. I say, "Okay, man. They're not coming." So, so yeah, I'm kind of careful with that. I I respect your your position on that. And uh I guess I'm just in a different different mentality when it comes to that because I personally believe uh that while I'm certainly not um stronger than the devil in the sense that I feel like I have power over him, um I do believe in the power of God to lead and guide me into all truth as that promise we find in John 14 and and 16. And so in that case, man, I think I just would like to say to close off that particular or if you want to continue to chop it up, it's fine. just to cap it off with my thoughts here. And that is we also have to be careful not to put oursel in a box. Correct. And say then say only anything that fits into my little theological box here. That's it. And and nothing else. I think think about it. with Ellen and James White in the immediate aftermath of of um of you know 1844 investigative judgment as we see the development of the 7th day Adventist theological tenants there you know imagine as Rachel Oaks comes to Joseph Bates and begins to give him a Bible study on the on the Sabbath you know these were Sunday keepers the the Christian connection James White and so they were all Sunday keepers Ellen White being a Methodist Sunday keeper imagine if they uh had said to themselves I'm not going I'm I can't entertain that because, you know, I know where I stand. I know this to be the Lord's day. I know this to be truth. I'm sticking with what I know to this and I'm not going to entertain those evil possible detrimental teachings that's going to come from Rachel Oaks. They didn't they they did entertain that and and through that came a powerful transition from, you know, from that. So, I'm I'm just using that as an example that I totally resonate. We should not just open our mind like I'm not going to go in, and I know this is kind of an extreme, but I'm not going to go in and into a Wiccan or or spiritist store to learn more about the occult. I'm not going to do that. I think that to me that's that's really extreme. And that is diving into the devil's territory that's absolutely off limits to Christians. And we can have a found foundation in the Bible for that. But to sit down with someone and say, "Hey, I I want to challenge your Sabbath beliefs. I want to challenge your your beliefs on Ellen White. I want to challenge your beliefs on the law. I want to challenge your We have to be able to say, "You know what? I'm rooted and grounded in scripture." Now, if you truly are and you're confident in that, why not have that conversation? If you know you're weak in the faith, and there's some that know they are. There's some in the church, they know they're not as grounded and rooted in some of these doctrines, uh, they accept them on faith as I did for many years as I was growing. Uh, and so for those weaker brothers in the faith and sisters in the faith, I would absolutely in a pastoral sense say, "Man, don't go entertain that before you're ready. You need to be you need to be studied up. Make sure you know your Bible very well and be able to to confront these things with good biblical exesus." But yeah, I just wanted to say I resonate with you on that and I appreciate your your position. Yeah. I know. I also I have another question here and I know we've been on for an hour and definitely want to respect your time as well. You're good. No, you're good, brother. Go ahead. Okay. Um, you know, so where do you go from here, man? Because you've given yourself 14 something years to the Seven Day Adventist Church. And I got to tell you, uh, uh, I I'm going to miss you, bro. I'm going to miss you. I'm going to miss you from a theological sense, from a from a brother sense, from a Sabbath school study sense. And I think some people in the comment will agree with you. I think you have an amazing ability to break down the word of God in a very personal and honest way that very few can do. And I think all of every one of God's people are gifted in ways. Some of us are sharper here and some of us are weaker in other places. God has given you the gift to be able to go into the scripture and exchiece and and extract the meaning and make a personal and present day application in ways that I think very few can do. So I think that aspect of Sabbath school on 3ABN is something I'm going to miss because sometime I don't study my Sabbath school and I'm honestly saying this and I have to teach the next Sabbath and I'm like Friday 11:00 at night. I'm like crying day on 3:00 a.m. you know so that's my escape. So and then I come to Sabbath school sharp as an arrow thinking that I said man most of this were thoughts I just picked up on somebody else last night. So so anyway honesty is good for the soul. Um, so, so I think this is one aspect we're going to miss and this is one thing we're going to miss. So, with that in mind, where do you go from here? We think Adventism, you got a new channel. Um, and I hear what the new channel is about. Um, are you going to become one of one of those anti-SDA critics online who makes a living of kind of bashing the Seven Day Adventist Church? Are you one of those characters? Should we be looking out for you? No, I I I obviously am going to post some things on my channel that you guys are going to disagree with. And I know the the um regardless of what I say right now in this interview or any other public space, uh I know I'm going to be uh labeled that. I'm going to be labeled as an Adventist basher, a person who hates the church and who's trying to divide the church. And and I can't change the way people perceive that. All I can say is that's not my intentions. That's not my focus. I've already stated in my very first public video that once I feel like I have sufficiently covered the theological aspects, the cultural aspects, the traditional aspects of Adventism that I would like to see improved or informed uh and to share my heart on those issues. Once I've done that, I'm capping that Rethink Adventism channel. It will come to an end. this is not going to be an ongoing for years and years and years and you know just coming back week after week and and you know trying to combat against 7th day Adventist. I will say that um I don't necessarily throw my brothers and sisters under the bus who do that. I know that there are some critics out there that are very much in the crosshairs of 7th Day Adventists. They think they're evil and that's their right and opinion to do so. I think those individuals have the right and freedom to do what they do in their channels and to share the convictions that they feel where Adventism is wrong as they continue to do that from week to week. But for me personally, you ask my intentions and where I go from here. Um once I have sufficiently covered what I believe to be uh um you know my thoughts and my ideas on these individuals uh situations and I provide evidences and reasons behind why I currently stand, I'm actually going to issue challenges. And here's my challenge, brother James, because I know from some of the staunch, very devoted Seventh Day Adventists, I've received messages even today, just one, there were several I've received several, but one of them particularly just literally five or 10 minutes before I came online with you. I had a lady messaging me saying, "I'm so sad that you've left the faith, blah blah blah, warning me about, you know, you better not say this or that. You're going to be condemned by God, blah blah blah." this idea that I'm leaving Christ because I'm leaving I'm leaving the Adventist church or or I'm leaving the my, you know, the true genuine faith of Christ, the body of Christ, because I'm no longer in the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. Correct. I'm no longer in the Seventh Day Adventist denomination because the church will not have me and rightfully so because I'm no longer in harmony with their fundamental beliefs. Correct. But I also disagree with that very mentality because that aspect of you know sticking to a formal creed of beliefs and things and holding that to people to that to not be able to express doubts not be express questions or even express differences of opinion. You realize prior to 1980, prior to 1980, Adventist ministers had the freedom to express their doubts in Ellen White and her spirit of prophecy status without being fired. 1980 that was overund what 17 years of Adventism that if you were a minister in this church a leader in this church and you could openly say things like I read that quote from Ellen White for example just throwing out here and and I'm not trying to take this out of context I'm just stating it for an example where she simply says it's a sin to be sick or it's a sin to forget things to be forgetful you could not come out publicly and say or you could back then come out publicly and say I disagree with that. I don't think that that's that's in harmony with God's word. I don't think that that's inspired. Uh nowadays, since 1980, when they added that consensus statement to the fundamental beliefs and rewarded it, including Ellen White in the fundamental belief, um you know, prior to 1980, she was not a part of the fundamental beliefs. Now she is correct. And so now you can't publicly speak out and say these things. So I'm saying all of that to say my intentions is not to bash the church, divide the church, lure people away. My my whole point from my channel is going to be to tell Seventh Day Adventist. I don't want I'm not telling you to leave Seventh Day Adventism. I'm not trying to draw you away from Seventh Day Adventist. If that's your church, you're happy there. You're you're you're solidified in that faith. You find God there, stay remain. All I'm saying is consider these evidences and consider the issues that is within this culture that is damaging to seventh day Adventist. Let me ask let me ask my opinion. Let me ask this questions quickly. Are you a pastor? Ordained pastor right now? Not that it matters. I I was an ordained elder. I was Okay. Ordained elder. Okay. Somebody was asking. I just wanted to get that out. Uh and also my friend Matt just uh posted something here. He said you've blocked him on your YouTube channel. Uh WhatsApp. Yeah. If you can look into it's called Fisher Corner. He says you've blocked him. I'm not sure if there was a disagreement between y'all two. Uh I have not blocked anyone on my YouTube channel. So if he was blocked, it was probably YouTube blocking him, not me. He says, "Okay, Ryan, you block people. So who are you going to challenge?" So that's a question. So we're going to leave that. Thank you for asking. Now, I will say this, I have blocked people on Facebook, but I have not a single person on YouTube. So that's probably on Facebook then. So he's probably on Facebook. He's Matt. Uh I think is Raidener. I'm not sure. But anyway, good friend. Good friend, by the way. Uh so Oh. Oh, I see. Okay. So, they did block a Matt if I'm thinking correctly. Yeah. And uh in my opinion, the guy was was very hateful in the comments. And I said I said from the very get go, I don't mind people challenging me. I don't mind people disagreeing with me. Just please don't come at me with this bad hateful spirit. And I I inter probably interpreted that he was just trolling. But I I would extend an a challenge to Matt. If Matt wants to meet me personally and he wants to be a brother in Christ and he wants to call me or he wants to have a conversation over the phone, I'm willing to do that for him. What I'm not going to do is have somebody hijacking my Facebook page just throwing hateful uh comments just, you know, snarky little snappy things. I just to me that's that's unfruitful. I totally understand. Yeah, Matt is like one one of my friends and we do ministry together. I was literally at his house uh two weeks ago. uh he brought me and his lovely wife, they brought me there and actually is a very good guy and I think on often time online people are not always uh understood in the way that you think but if you were to meet Matt just like he told me of Alan Davis you would realize Matt is actually a very down to earth straight in your face tell you like it is kind of guy. Well, I I don't mind that, but but because I don't know him and I'm looking on some of these comments and this guy's just like snappy snappy snappy saying stuff. For the record, I will say to anyone if I've blocked you and I've blocked a lot of people, not just because I saw, oh, they they disagreed with me. No, no, no. You can go through there's thousands of people disagreeing with me that I have not blocked, but if there was there was something that was said that I that I uh interpreted as being inappropriate or hateful or I blocked you. But I will say to Matt or anyone for that matter that I might have blocked, if you want um yeah, if you want to if you want to have that conversation, you want to talk to me, if Matt will send me if he can, if he will send me another friend request. Yeah, that's him. That's my brother. That's my brother. That's my brother. Yeah, I was I was with his lovely wife and their family just to Very very nice couple, but he is he's strong in his belief. You can't shake him. He's one of those guys. So, Matt, I'm sure you're a great guy, man. And if I mischaracterized you, I apologize. Uh if you can send me another message or or friend request and we can we can connect, we can talk like brothers in Christ uh without all of the little jabs here and there. I think that works out a whole lot better. Yeah, I appreciate that. Uh you've you've said in your YouTube channel you're going to make some challenges to the 7th Day Adventist Church and everything. And my question simply is why? Because some people already said, "Okay, friend, you are leaving. You no longer believe these truths. You're going to go on to do your own thing. Just leave us alone, right? Just go on. Why do you feel the need to still make videos and say the following thing about our church? It's almost feels as though you are evangelizing more Seven Day Adventists to come along your journey and kind of like go on this journey with you. And some of us are saying we don't want to come with you. You can go on by yourself. How do you respond to that? If if ev if if if if evangelizing people to go on a journey of truth, then I'm guilty. Then yes, I'm guilty of that. And I will openly admit that's exactly my intentions to to lure people or take people out of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. That's not my intentions. That's not my choice. That's that's that's a person's individual choice. But I will state for the record, it is not my intentions to go publicly, privately, or anytime to convince people to, hey, you know what? Why do you want to remain in Adventism? and they believe in the wide and they believe in that investigative judgment and they believe in this and that and they're this way and that way and they allow this and they allow that. That's that's, you know, won't you come on out? That's not my intentions at all. But I will state to your to your question, brother James. Um there we would all still be Catholic if I did exactly what people are asking me to do to Adventism. Oh, that's a good point. If people if and I hear this all the time. I've read thousands of just leave brother day. You're doing so much damage. You're hurting the church. You're causing more division. You what you're doing is causing no good. You're just causing contentions and strife and and why don't you just leave and just ride off in the sunset and be quiet and leave our church and leave us alone. Leave us alone. To me, that very mentality, what I hear when people say that to me is, "Ryan, your voice doesn't matter." Ryan, your thoughts and your hearts and your experiences, they don't matter. the fact that you've disconnected yourself or the fact that you in a disagreement with the church and you now can no longer stand in harmony with us. Just leave. Get out of here. We don't want to hear you. And by the way, there are thousand, my brother, thousands of brothers and sisters who have left this church who have been treated that way and do not want anything to have uh to do with the 7th Day Adventist Church because members have made them feel exactly that way. I I you know what you just hit me with a good one here and I actually say I have some of them that are my friends here on this channel the reason people like yourself is welcome is because here at Advent media connect we don't censor people we think they should be able to speak we believe in that but we do we are careful who we bring but we do believe when people are ostracized cast away the best way to love and respect them is not to just shut them out I don't think that's the way Christ would have done it. Uh so that's why people like you, people like Ron Kelly and Dr. Vine, I'm still chasing after Ron Kelly. It's hard to catch this guy, but uh and and James Milm and many others. So I have a few people that I'm trying to make sure that they know that there is a place here where you can come and have a conversation irrespective of how you've been treated in the church. Can can you imagine when the GC decided to uh rem, you know, to do to take the measures they did against Conrad Vine and to go as far to take the measure do use the measures that they did against Ron Kelly. Could you imagine if they would have said now be quiet right off in the sunset, take your little spot in the back corner of the church, sit there and be quiet. We would all be like, whoa, bro. Like, no, no, no. I think I think, you know, imagine Martin Luther never writing that 95 thesis because he's no longer in agreement. He's just to be quiet, shut up, and and just sit there and not challenge this church that is clearly not in harmony with God's word. So, the response I have to that, my brother, is that we we need to be careful because when we start to try to censor people, even though we may disagree with them, I can listen to Miles Christian over at Answering Adventism. And I know he is one of the biggest Adventists hate this guy. I mean, he's that guy. This guy has done more damage. I will say I don't want you to become like him because it seems like he's gotten on this journey and I Matt can tell you some story cuz yeah we can go we can we can disagree with the guy. I don't respond to him too many time but I I fear a lot of people are following that pattern on YouTube thinking that's a good pattern. I don't think it's a good pattern. Well, can I can I can I can I respond just can I say one can I want you to challenge that but I want I want to say one more thing you said that you compare what you are doing similar to the Protestant reformers in typologically speaking uh there there's going to be some serious push back and I will say this is where I push back the the Protestant reformers were stepping deeper into the light many sevenists will look what you're doing and say bro you are stepping away from the light you cannot Hey, you're going to promote truth and while you're promoting truth, you're denying things that are clearly outlined in the scripture when it comes to and that that's an opinion that they're going to have. They're going to and they're also going to use scripture to back it up in some cases. And I would like to hear how you respond to that because for example, in Proverbs 4:18, the the path of the just is as a shining light that shineth more and more into the perfect day. Yes, we supposed to grow in our spiritual journey. Uh but there should be progress not regress right and sometime we regressing and we say we making progress some of us some some some some people are making progress backward and would you say you think you're making a progress forward theologically speaking by going in this direction and rejecting these theological truths or would you say that's a backward progress with what I what I know absolutely no Adventist I'm so you know I'm speaking from an Adventist perspective now I know from seventh day Adventist they're going to see Exactly how you just described it. Exactly. But but look at it from the Catholic perspective. Catholics would have thought Martin Luther was leaving the light and regressing. You and I look at that and we say, "Praise the Lord, he stepped out of that darkness into the light." Um, it's all a perspective. We respond and believe what we want to believe based on the knowledge that we have. And I'm not expecting all of my Adventist brothers and sisters to agree with me. I'm not expecting them to believe in what I'm doing. I'm expecting them to hate on me. I'm expecting I already read at least 25 messages today from people saying, "You're a demon. You're going to hell. Get out of here, you demon. Leave our church alone." I I know the position that many of these people take. And and that's to be expected. But if if I crumble because, you know, 4 million Adventists come from my throat and say, "You're you're attacking my church and you're you're walking away from the light and you're you're promoting darkness and all of that." Then then what does that say about all of the thousands and thousands of thousands of other people that have the same questions as me who are messaging me and saying, "Man, Brother Day, you've inspired me. You've encouraged me. I've been wanting to talk about these things for years. I've been wanting to ask my pastor and my church members and I've wanted to have these conversations for years, but I can't. And you have inspired us as a voice, someone who's not who's not afraid to speak out and to challenge these things." And so at the end of the day, it's all perspective. from an Adventist perspective, some people are incapable of seeing anything other than what they see and what they believe. But at the end of the day, it's got to come down to evidence. And so for me personally, uh, you know, when I when I look into these things and I consider what you're what you're asking me here, uh, about about digressing and going out of the light and all that stuff, you know, at the end of the day, I'm trying to point people back to the Bible and Adventism, though they claim their soul of scripture, though Adventism claims that it is Bible and Bible alone. And even John, I thought it was ironic because even Pastor LM King in his in his address to me last week, he says, "We're we're a Bible and the Bible alone." Ellen White says, "We're a we're a Bible alone people." It's interesting he quotes Ellen White to validate his stance on that we're a Bible alone people. Uh I respect people's right and belief and conviction to use Ellen White as an authority. They have that right. But I believe that there is some Adventists that are balanced in their use of of LG White. There is a large and I and I'm saying large because I believe a majority people who are very unbalanced in their use of Ellen White and have put Ellen White equal or above scripture. And we cannot make these public claims and say we're a Bible in the Bible. We cannot bring people in in our evangelistic series and say, "Oh, she's the lesser light leading men and women to the greater light and and she she's while she's inspired and has authority, not on the same level of the Bible, but then when someone comes with Bible truth uh and establishes what they believe to be Bible truth, and then we're met with," yeah, but Ellen White says, to me, it now makes it sound like you're applying Ellen White as an infallible interpreter of scripture. And we know that's not the case. There's a lot of that going on. I'm not saying you're that way, Pastor James. I'm not saying uh that all of your viewers are that way. I'm not saying that all Adventists are that way. But that is a major major issue in the church. And I want to challenge that. I'm saying, you know what? Ellen White wrote some wonderful things. So did Charles Spurgeon. Was Charles Spurgeon a prophet? No. But you claim that Ellen White's a prophet. Now she is held to a higher standard than the average pastoral speaker, preacher, writer. And there are things that I have found that to me contradict what the Bible says. And I know from a perspective of an adventist, you're going to say, "No, no, no, no, that's not the case. Never contradicts the Bible." I'm so glad you said that because a lot of seven adventists will push back. And I will push back against it. Even actually even the term uh Bible and Bible alone. It's it's crazy cuz you have to study even from when you say a Bible a Bible alone. uh you kind of have to be careful how you even say that and what is meant by that because there are there are traditional practice there are good practice there are policies that may not be from the Bible that the church apply that are that will say God cosigns that by the word of God so the spirit of prophecy from many from the mind of many 7 minutes as you know I'm speaking to the choir uh you know it emerges from scripture it is one of the gifts that are given to the church. Uh it is meant to be in the church until the second coming of Jesus Christ. And you also know that from the time the law has been restored, so were the prophets. There's like a you know these langos. So it's nothing I'm telling you that you haven't said. So Seventh Day Adventists have some good theological reasons for believing in the spirit of prophecy. And it does say that the church, the remnant church will have the commandments of God and the gift of prophecy. Revelation 19 verse 10. So we have it's not like we are saying things. You've used the words unorthodox. You even see you even used the C word which was like you using the cult word and like but you you don't call the church cult but you say we act like there is cult inside the church. There's no doubt cult mentalities there's that I'm not going to shake it all. Yeah. Am I going to say all seven advent? No, obviously not. But but but inside the church having experienced it. And here's another thing, brother. Um a lot of Adventists hold the position they have about the church because they're in their own little local bubble, their local church bubble, and they're seeing it through the lenses of three ABN cameras. They're seeing it through the lenses of a Doug Bachelor camera. They're seeing it through literature and books. And a lot of times we paint our understanding of Adventism from our personal little local Adventist bubble. 90 I would venture to say 99% or more of Seventh Day Adventists have that local bubble understanding of Adventism. I have traveled this world. I have been in hundreds of Seventh Day Adventist churches. I've taken in Seventh Day Adventism and a much broader panoramic perspective and have have met hundreds of thousands of Seventh Day Adventists that represent Seventh Day Adventism. And I can tell you when you travel vast like that and you're in 30 to 50 churches a year and you're meeting thousands and thousands of Seventh Day Adventists and you're walking in and you're observing all of these aspects of the of the of the Seventh Day Adventist culture and how we do things and how we talk and how we we we study and the you know how we you know exhort the scripture. You start to pick up on patterns. And so I'm not expecting all of Adventism to understand my perspective because you haven't been there where I've been. You haven't seen what I've seen. You haven't experienced Adventism in a much broader sense that I have, unless you've traveled extensively uh into hundreds of churches as I have. Uh, but that being said, I also recognize that just because I hold an opinion about a large class of Seventh Day Adventists that to me represent negative aspects of the church does not mean that I believe that all seventh day Adventists hold to these negative aspects. I know that there are wonderful, spiritfilled, loving, remnant people in this church who love the Lord God with all their heart, mind, and soul, who don't misuse and abuse Ellen White, who don't put Ellen White equal or above the Bible, but allow her to be used in encouraging ways, but again, allow always allowing the Bible to be the final authority. To me, that is is healthy Seventh Day Adventism. And that's my opinion, and I know a lot of people aren't going to agree with it. There are a lot of people who may not be seventh day adventists who love the Lord. They may be outside of the seven adventist faith. I believe that there are other sheep who are not of this fold and Jesus says he's working with them. There is a call to come out of Babylon. So there if there's a call to come out of Babylon, there must be a place where they can come in, right? they come out of something, they have to go into something. That's my perspective when it comes to that. Uh and I think it's only fair to say uh you know um the Seventh Day Adventist Church, just like you've said, is the remnant church of Bible prophecy. With all my protests online, I have never said to anybody to leave the Seventh Day Adventist Church. I'll be honest with you, and that's my next question. Now, since you departing from the Seventh Day Adventist Church, if you were to go in the market to shop for religions, right, you say, "Okay, I'm going to go shopping today to see which Christian denomination I'm going to join." And you look at all these divisions and subdivisions and denominations and non-denominations and this and that and this and that. When you look at all of these religions, apart from the Seventh Adventist Church, which other denomination do you see walks closer to the Bible from your understanding today? Yeah. See, that that right there is a loaded question that gets people into a mentality of thinking that there is a singular denomination that is better than all the rest. And I don't I don't like even entertaining that. That is one of the issues I have with Seventh Day Adventism. For instance, I respect your position. I respect your belief, my brother, of your position in thinking that the Seventh Day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy. I don't like that language. I think that language is deceptive in the sense that uh we cannot say that God has sheep that are not of this fold out there that are not Seventh Day Adventist and then say the Adventist church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy. The remnant church is his people and he has a vast vast group of people that are not Seventh Day Adventist. Let me let me let me let me say that again so you understand. I'm not saying there are I've already affirmed there are people outside of the Adventist church but I say from a denominational perspective from an or organization from a religion that we know as of Christianity today outside of 7th day Adventism do you think or do you see any denomination who believe the things that you believed as a seven? You say you still believe over 90 something% 98% of what we believe. If you take that 98% of your current belief as a former 7th day Adventist, which denomination are you gonna go to now to not practice those beliefs? Right. Right. Well, I'll tell you this. Um, you know, I'm going to answer that question, but I got to preface it by saying this. Um, we even state that the only u the only fundamental belief of the 7th Day Adventist Church that is unique only to 7th Day Adventism is the teaching of the investigative judgment of the 2,300 year sanctuary message. that all of our other beliefs are in some way, form or fashion uh adopted or or were adhered to in other denominations that exist out there other than Seventh Day Adventism. So to answer your question, I don't believe there is a single denomination because denominations are created by men. Denominations hold to rules and regulations and and dos and don'ts and this is what we believe and this is what we don't believe. And I believe that there are, if not most denominations out there, adhere to a lot of wonderful Bible truth. I also believe there's a lot of denominations out there that don't hold to all good Bible truth. There's some errors in their Bible uh uh uh beliefs or in their particular spiritual beliefs. I believe that Adventism is is is very close. I don't even say anymore that I believe that Seventh Day Adventism is closer to the Bible than any other denomination because I believe that Seventh Day Adventism, and this is again, I'm going to get a lot of hate for this, but I'm speaking openly and honestly. This is me sharing my heart here. I believe that while there are certain doctrines that absolutely the Adventist church in my current belief system uh gets right. I believe that one of the most fundamental uh beliefs of all that the Adventists are not all but many Adventists are flawed on and skewed on is the gospel. I mean the fundamental plan of salvation and how is how one is saved. I believe that there are denominations out there that are Sunday keeping denominations that are closer to the biblical gospel than within 7th day Adventism. And so the question you're asking is not a bad one. I just don't like the question because what it kind of baits the person answering to is to say, "Hey, tell us who's the closest." It's again what Adventists often get sucked into is this mentality of us and them. This, you know, we've got it all, they don't. we're more elite spiritually. They're not here on Mount Olympus and everybody else is kind of out there and they need to rise up to where we are. I would agree. I agree in part with your answer as far as they are. All of our teachings apart from this from the investigative judgment can be found in other denomination. The Sabbath, the sit of the dead, you know, the pillars, the six pillars of our faith. We we understand what these are. Other denominations have these things. Some of them agree with them, but you're not going to find all six pillars in any other Christian denomination. you're not going to find it, right? So that's that's a fact. Unless you're willing to practice this at home with your family and you just follow your conscience and find a Christian church where you think they are preaching the gospel and you still believe in the keeping of the seventh day Sabbath. Is that correct? You still believe I believe I believe in keeping the seventh day Sabbath according to the commandment. Correct. Which is to rest and let others rest. Correct. Correct. I believe in that 100%. Correct. And you still believe that's on the seventh day. You still believe that's on the seventh day on on Saturday like we call I believe biblically the Sabbath according to scripture is on the seventh day of the weekend. So which means now you have to find a church or maybe you might have to create a church. Who knows where God is leading you in your journey. You might have to find a denomination that keeps the seventh day Sabbath and they preach the gospel in a way that you not understand it different than what the seventh ministers believe. Even though they may not uh agree with some of other of our teachings but at least if they have those two certain elements that you will say you agree with they have to practice but even that can be a difficult choice when you when you think about it because over 80% of the Christian denomination at least in the western world reject the 7-day Sabbath and if you find one who keep the seven-day Sabbath they often time got the second coming wrong they reject the investigative judgment they even reject the pre-advent judgment as you termed it uh and they go they go far far and reject this. is very very difficult to be in to be honest to find and that doesn't necessarily mean you're not going to find Christian people I would say church that's a different thing but do you find Christian organization that are walking close to these biblical truths that's kind of difficult and I've done my research on that is very very hard so I would like to know where you're going to go now since you are leaving the church and having dedicated 14 years of your life and I think your wife must have had that conversation you had to look at your your your your daughter correct Is am I correct? No kids. Okay. No kids. So, you and your wife must have had that conversation. Honey, what now? We we've talked about it, but you know, brother, there's a lot of there's a lot of elements of what you just said that sparked a lot of things in my mind that I would love to address because and I don't have time to do that. So, I'm not going to do that on your program today. Um, and I'm I'm I will be addressing I think some of these things coming up in the near future on a few of my videos. But, brother, I'll be honest with you, man. um when when you're within a particular denomination or organization that has deep roots, historical roots, and that's most of these big denominations, 7th Day Adventism, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyter, going down the list. When you get into these big organizations, it's very very easy because of how established they are, because of how much history there is there to allow culturally the mentality of the members to have this idea that if I'm not a part of an organization or I'm not a part of an actual church building or a large church gathering, then I'm not really keeping Sabbath. Uh there are ways to congregate. There are ways to assemble. There are ways that you can still honor Sabbath without necessarily thinking like I have to be a part of an organization or of or in a building with like-minded believers. Obviously, that's great if you can make that happen. And I'm not kicking against that. But I will say that um there was a there's a lot that you said. It was a loaded loaded thing that I could just many points that I would love to respond to. But I will say this. I currently stand on the fact that I believe the biblical Sabbath is the seventh day. I believe that historically you can find uh clear evidences that have that has been for a very very very long time uh celebrated by the Jews for Friday night sundown to Saturday night sundown. And I very very much do not throw any shade at my brothers and sisters in Adventism or anyone for that matter who adheres to that because I see a biblical basis for it. I think where what happens is within Adventist culture and I think this spans obviously from the writings of Ellen White which again I've already stated I disagree with. So the statement that I'm about to make shouldn't shock you. Although it may cause you to think I'm a deeper apostate than what I am. I believe that we need to I we need to take this concept of worship and Sabbath observance and we really need to un we need to really dive into those because we're to worship God every day. Worship is not this this congregated in we put it in a box and we say this is what it must be on this particular day at this time and anyone who's not doing it at this time in this building during this day is not keeping Sabbath. And the truth of the matter is we should worship God every day. There is a biblical Sabbath and I and I recognize that the very principle the very substance of the Sabbath commandment is that you work for six days and you rest on the seventh day. I currently still practice it as I did when I was in the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Me and my wife rested yesterday all day. It was wonderful. I enjoyed my restful Sabbath. But I have no problem with my Sunday brothers and sisters or anyone else for that matter worshiping on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. We've created culturally, in my opinion, outside of the Bible context, we've created this mentality that says if you worship on Sunday, oh, you're you're a false you're a false Sabbath worshipper. You're not a true Christian. You're denying the Ten Commandments. When in reality, I know brothers and sisters who keep Sunday holy. Again, I don't judge them for it. I don't throw shade at them for it. They they keep Sunday. They rest and let others rest according to the commandment on Sunday. And some of them keep it better than I've seen Sabbathke keepers. And so I think it's it's important that we investigate some of these things, not to lower our standards. I'm not saying lower Bible standards, but the judgment aspect of this from an Adventist perspective. No wonder the church hasn't grown as it is. Because when when other people find out that Seventh Day Adventists believe that anyone who doesn't honor and keep holy, the rigidness of the time of the seventh day, Sat Friday night, sundown to Saturday night, that somehow they're judged or they're condemned for that. That that becomes a very very big issue and we have to deal with that biblically. And I would venture to say there's some people that have done some studies out there that would probably shock you on some of the biblical exeetical information they have been able to find in relation to the Sabbath. Biblically, you can prove that the Sabbath actually evolved from the first time that God there was an evolution of Sabbathkeeping even in the Bible. And so I I I I currently uh still adhere to a Friday night sundown to Saturday night sundown uh uh resting period, but you know whether it's Saturday, Sunday, Monday, I worship God every day in my life and in my home and out and about when I'm driving because um the the my worship on Saturday is somehow sometimes we we deem it as being holier than the other day. We should worship God every day. I would be very clear on that. I agree with you and I think even a lot of Sunday keeping churches when they speak about Sabbath they they when to demote the Sabbath they use this to make the argument that I worship God every day you know even TD Jake I worship God Monday Tuesday Wednesday so it's an argument that is used yeah it's it's an argument that is used and this is this element of truth in a light of yeah we should worship God every day but there's only one day to keep holy and you agree with that and you cannot keep every day holy but I do like what you said seventh day is often times connect the idea of worship to Sabbathke keeping only which is not right. We should worship every single day. We should remain in an attitude of worship as a matter of fact and and we all told whether therefore we eat or drink. Whatsoever we do we should do it to the glory of God. 2 Corinthians 10:31. So if we were to do that and we bring that same element into Sabbathkeeping, it will enrich the whole entire experience of Sabbathkeeping, you know. So I mean going back to my question so I as as of right now you don't have any denominations that you are a part of you are working with has there has there has there been has there been any suggestions from any former seminist who may be trying to recruit you to join who knows their their there their non SDA movements who knows have you have you gotten in touch with anyone or anybody trying to reach out to you yeah I mean I've had a few people invite me to join some some online groups some uh some chat groups some study groups and I'm not opposed to that. I'm not opposed to that. I I I very much welcome anyone to study with me any time to worship with anyone at any time. Okay. Um and so yes, I if I'm being honest, I have I've had have had those groups. Um I have not connected with any of those groups in terms of you know committing to hey yeah I'll join your your movement or I'll join this or that. Um for me personally and I'm not even saying that I won't ever knock in the door of the 7th Day Adventist Church. I was going to ask you that next question. I was going to say, would you ever attend a Seventh Day Adventist church and sit there and enjoy the message because let's be honest, I have no prejudice against my my brothers and sisters in Adventism. Now, I will tell you, um, I will do my homework very diligently before I go to an Adventist church because I'm not going to subject myself to a service that I believe is unbalanced or that I believe is uh misusing and abusing Ellen White or promoting things that I don't necessarily agree with. And so, in that So, wait. What does what does what does abusing Ellen White sound like in practice? It sounds like you're saying if I go to a 7 Adventist church where they use Ellen White um abusing it. So in other words, you okay with Ellen White being used as a commentary? Cuz you compared her to Charles Spurgeon, which I totally disagree with. But you you say, is it okay to use Ellen White as a commentary? Then if you will attend a church where this is done or if you if a church is using Ellen White as an authoritative would you say that's a church you would not attend? Me personally I would prefer Ellen White to not be used at all and I stand on the fact that I think if Ellen White was here she would say the same thing in respect to people who are putting her equal or above the Bible. She we have statements from her where where she says you know the Bible and the Bible alone. you can't prove and teach and and proclaim what you believe from the Bible and the Bible alone, you have no business using my writings. So, we we have that there. And so, my personal preference is if I had control over it, Delen White wouldn't be used at all. But obviously, we're talking within the context of an Adventist church. You ask me, would I ever visit an Adventist church again? Would I worship with my Adventist brothers? I mean, my goodness, if I walked into a church and Ellen I felt Ellen White was being used and abused, I'm not going to make a scene. I'm not going to stand up and sigh and cry and make a big deal. I just probably won't come back to that church. But am I am I totally against worshiping with my brothers and sisters in an Adventist setting? I'm not. I haven't closed that door. Uh as long as they will embrace me with open arms and as long as they won't stone me uh you know before, during or or after uh coming to the service, I'll be absolutely would would uh would would be okay with that. But to answer directly the whole Ellen White thing, my preference is that she's not used at all because if we're a Bible, we're Bible Christians and we can substantiate what we believe from the Bible, then we need to leave her writings alone. But this is coming from a guy who doesn't believe in the authority of Ellen White. So that shouldn't surprise you. Yeah, I I respect your your perspective here. That's not going to be a difficult church to find because I'll tell you what, most 7day Adventist church that I know don't even read the spirit of prophecy. Most 7th Day Adventists don't even most pastors that I'm used to won't even quote. I've been in churches where I've sat down for years and very few I think I'm one of the I'm one of the ones who is gonna like Bible and spirit of prophecy I'm not afraid of saying that but a lot of times uh unfortunately a lot of seven administ churches so you're not going to be it's not going to be difficult for you especially the churches that are more liberal in nature it's not going to be difficult for you bro there's a lot of 7 minutes doors that are wide open that will welcome your perspective and I think you one of the ones who came out publicly a lot of people feel this this way. I don't I I you know, but I think a lot of people feel the same way you feel and they still remain in the Adventist church and I don't know why they do, but nevertheless, that is still a thing. So, I really really It's their church. I mean, what do you mean? Why do they It's their church. They believe that that's their church. Even though they hold different opinions about maybe Ellen White or some of these u various teachings like me, it it's hard for them to remove themselves because they love their church. And so I I I'm not I'm not saying I'm not passing judgment whether that's good or bad. I'm just stating for the record. I understand why thousands and thousands of people and here's the thing, brother. I I want to just state for the moment. you maybe not every church, but I would say the probably a good majority of Seventh Day Adventist churches you go into, you're going to find there are more people than you know who agree with my conclusions or at least not maybe not my conclusions, but my my doubts and my questionings of these things. And while you personally and maybe others of your viewers who are watching right now are just unapologetically rooted and grounded in these things and can't imagine a day in which you would dare doubt or question in these things. You cannot have this attitude of, "Well, I'm solid. There's tons of other Adventists that are solid. We're the true blue, you know, solidified Adventists in this church." and then look at these other brothers and sisters that are questioning and think maybe like why are they still here? Look, I think the greater question is why are they doubting? Why do they have questions? And and and the church needs to be honest about it, they need to open up and they need to say, "Okay, if if more than a third or more of our believers are having these doubts and having these questions, what does that say about what we're doing here inside this institution? If we claim to be the remnant church that has the, you know, keeps the commandments of God, has the testimony of Jesus Christ, a bibleelving people with a spirit of prophecy, you know, the last day movement to usher in these last events of Bible prophecy. You would think that within a church, and I know there's wheat and tears, so I I get it. I get it. But you would think within this church that you would have fewer people questioning these things. But I think there's more questioning these things than what the church really uh wants to admit it. So if you really take a survey right now, I guarantee you at least a third or more if not half of the 7th Day Adventist lay members are not totally 100% solidified on things like Ellen White in the investigative judgment. And I will tell you what uh the answer that we will give from the conservative side of Adventism uh where we believe in both scripture and the spirit of prophecy as authoritative uh we will say the shaking is happening. You are being shaken out of God's church brother. You are fulfilling you are fulfilling uh 2 Timothy 4 uh uh what does it say? It says in the last days they they shall give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. That's what's going on. And you are you have shaken out of the church. And there's some things in there that can be critical incredible as well because Ellen White also says that one of the first things that happens when a person start moving away from Bible truth, they will reject the writings of the testimonies which I'm sure you've read. And once we start giving when we give up yeah when we give up faith in that we eventually go down that that journey and there's been some stories and you can go conright you can look at Desmond Ford and many others and I think you can agree with Desmond Ford I don't agree with Desmond Ford I noticed in your first video you somewhat say yeah Desmond Ford was very d but anyway we can go on into that but some of these men when they begin to step out they actually eventually gave up faith in many other biblical doctrines. as well. I noticed when they attack the spirit of prophecy, it wasn't long before they rejected biblical truths. So, that's one of those things. Here's where Here's where I would challenge that thinking, though. I want to state for the record, I I do believe that biblical doctrines are important. The biblical doctrines are what help bring support and foundation to the various spiritual elements and foundation to the church. So I'm not in any way denying or saying that what we believe is not important. I think that when you start applying this idea, this mentality to it's more important what we believe rather than who we believe. That becomes a problem. And I would encourage if there's I'll tell you this right now. If there is anything Ellen White has ever written that is more truth than anything I've ever heard, it is what she writes on Desire of Ages, page 309, where she talks about how the the greatest deception in the days of Christ was that the children of Israel thought that because they had the oracles of God, that because they had all of these these theological beliefs and this rich history, and because they were the children of Abraham that somehow their passion, their zeal, their spirituality lifted them far and above everyone even Christ himself that led them in their bigotry and in their zealot, you know, unrighteous spirits to crucify the Lord. And then she says, and I'm paraphrasing, that the same the same danger still exists today. Now, here's the thing. I I'm quoting Ellen White. I don't really I didn't nearly need Ellen White to know this, but I'm saying it for the fact that since you guys accept her as a prophet, accept her as an authority. I wish that I would see Adventism adhere to the message of Desire of Ages page 309. Because she says the the the danger, the same danger in Christ day still exists today. that when that many people believe that because they have subscribed to various theological tenants, okay, 28 fundamental beliefs, that because they've simply subscribed to them or that they believe them or that because they accept those truths that somehow that equates to their righteousness. And she goes on far as to say, "But if this truth does not take deep root in you to cause you to be kind, sincere, loving, and heavenly minded, that it is a curse to them, the persons who are claiming the truth, and also the curse to those uh people whom they are influencing." That's that's a probably totally butchered that, but in a roundabout way, I paraphrased my way into that. I'm saying that to say this. One of the issues I have with the culture of Adventism, and again, I recognize that not all Adventists hold to this mentality, but one of the issues that I have with the culture of Adventism is that we have allowed ourselves through various applications of Ellen White to take this mentality that well, the truth is the truth, the truth, the truth, the truth, the truth. We got to uphold truth. We got to uphold truth. And we take this and we say, "Well, state of the dead, that person believes their mom's in heaven. They're not Christian. That person believes that Sunday's that the the Lord that person's not Christian." Before you know it, there's this mentality that's created within Adventism that says that puts more weight in what you believe rather than who you believe. And here's what's amazing. There are going to be many Seventh Day Adventists to show up into heaven and they're going to embrace their brothers that they've never met, never knew, who believed the entire time they were down here, who had the same Bible as them. They believed that Sunday was the Sabbath and the Lord's day and believed that guess what? Their dead loved ones were in heaven and believed probably in a secret silent rapture and believed probably that it was okay to eat pork and believe that it was okay to, you know, you can go on down the list. The point I'm getting at is that we cannot put oursel in such this vacuum mentality of if it's not this, this, this, and this that they believe, well, then they're not Christian. They're not really following Christ. I'm in no way promoting the rejection of truth. If we have an opportunity to know and understand we should study to show oursel approved. We should rightly divide that word of truth in this in the best way that that the Holy Spirit's leading us. But that's one of the issues I have as you were describing again. these people believe this, these people believe that. But you don't believe that, Ryan. You don't believe because you're the the weight of oftentimes many Adventists, they loved me and looked up to me as long as I was in their club abiding by their club rules. I was valuable to them. Their mu my music was valuable to them. My sermons and my influence was valuable to them. But I'll tell you, brother, what's broken my heart more than anything over the last few days. It's not the hundreds of thousands of horrible, horrible, nasty comments that I've received and nasty messages from people that I don't know. It's the brothers and sisters that I've spent months with in their home at the dinner table, holding their kids, saying prayers with them, ministering with them, min holding evangelistic series with them, embracing them, crying with them, watching these brothers and sisters invite me to their church. Oh, Pastor Dave, so wonderful, lovely, godly man. His music blesses me. And then I come out and I say, you know what? I just don't I cannot get down with Ella White anymore. I just simply cannot adhere to this investigative judgment teaching and and some various other. And then I've watched these same people who are close friends of mine, people I loved and embraced as brothers and sisters turned their back on me, backbiting in the comments. And one of them broke my heart, a pastor who I loved dearly, a pastor friend of mine who I just said to to some of my family not too long ago. I said, ' Man, of all the pastors I've worked with, this man has been the most Christlike, loving, kind, wonderful person. I would I would do so many meetings with this man again if I had the opportunity. But this brother sends me a private message condemning me and saying, "You've left God's faith. You've left the church. Come out of Babylon. Repent of your sins before you die, you evil s." You know, these horrible things. And then going down the list of of I saw your wife's fingernail polish. I saw how you were wearing this. I heard you when you sing this song and and that music and going through all of these aesthetic aspects to condemn me. And that just cut me, man. It's like, man, you really don't know when you're facing people. They could smile and love you and embrace you, but the moment you have a theological difference with them, they will write you off. Why? Because the value your their your value in them or their value in you is only in as much as you're in agreement with them. Wow. You know, I got to tell you this is uh you're talking about human nature. All right. Human nature. Human nature is human nature. I deal with this. Uh I I've been online for a little while and I'll tell you what, there's a lot of truth to that. There are people who will get mad at me, you know, blackball me because I challenge some things in our church. And if you watch my YouTube channels, that alone gets me all the hate mails in the world. You know, like I can't I can't get a job with the Adventist church because I I I said this is a problem. You know, these these official statements, these UN connections here are a problem. And hey, you will not work with any institution. So, in a sense, but I'm still a seven. I don't care. God will provide. But the thing is uh you have to understand also be fair and understand that people are upset with you because you know they realize that you're not what they thought you were. That's one thing. And the second thing I I can understand why they feel upset even the ones that are very close to you. And uh when you start rejecting the spirit of prophecy and you speak about Ellen White that way as well, they they they weren't expecting that. You know, it's like um it's like a but what you but what you just said is a problem because you said you said they're they're they're taking it as if you're not who they thought you were. I'm the same guy I've always been. No, no, I'm talking about like I'm still the same person in character. I'm still the same loving Christian, the same person that that believes in Christ and puts my weight on the scripture and the I have not changed. I just changed a couple of theological beliefs and now people think I'm a demon. Yeah. Yeah. That that I disagree with. I don't think you're a demon. I don't think you are an apostate. and rejectors of I don't think that I don't think you I don't think you're going to hell. I know you don't. I don't. Yeah. Yeah. But I I don't feel But I'm just trying to understand I'm trying to sympathize with these individuals why they feel that way. You know, they they feel that way because they feel hurt by the direction they see you going. Uh that doesn't necessarily mean they're right about their perception. Yeah. Yeah. They wrong. I will also tell you why a lot of them feel the way that they do. And again, I'm not kicking this because I just said at the beginning of your program that I don't believe in censoring anyone, but media is powerful when when when Advent media connect, roll, you know, save to serve, you know, all these ministries and also in and you know, Secret and Amazing Discoveries, all of these very very very highly influential ministries who are ministering to thousands and hundreds of thousands of people, millions millions of people if you collect them all together when you when you guys go on and again I'm not trying to censor you I encourage you you you've got to voice your opinion you got to say what you got to say but these people look to you to tell them sometimes how they should feel so for instance you know I know I'll give you an example um I watched bro Lawrence's first very video I have not talked to this brother I have no contentions with him I don't really know him I watched his first video again very strongly you know brought that day broad that day he's this he does that he said this, he said that and and all the people in the comments are like, "Oh, you know, you know, at me." Well, then his recent video, which I actually thought was very kind of him, he he talked about he put the clip in there of my diet. And then he had a little short expert at the end where he he says, "While I disagree with him theologically, it's not right to go after this man, blah, blah, blah." You know, this the Christian thing. And then I'm reading several of these comments and you could just see how people's their their mentality was, "Oh, brother Day, we still love you. Oh, brother Day, we disagree with you, but you know, we still love you. We're praying for it's this. You can see the influence there. So, we have power. How I speak influences people. How you speak influences people. And so, a lot of these people have these very negative feelings. Not all of them. Some of them are going to have their feelings no matter what. But I think media does matter. And I'm not kicking that. I'm just saying I think a lot of people are influenced by their favorite YouTube channel, their favorite speakers. when they hear brother James go on and say, "Oh man, this guy, he, you know, I just disrespect him for their I don't respect him for that or respect or oh, I think he's wrong." Then your viewers are going to go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right." And that's to be expected. But we do have influence and and I think that's a high responsibility and I don't I haven't lost my faith over all of the negativity and the backlash of responses. That's to be expected. I'm just simply acknowledging the fact that media is powerful. And so I know that there would probably be maybe half or more than half of these people that have been sending me nasty, nasty, hateful messages. If they could sit down with me at a dinner table and just talk these things out, you know what we'd probably be doing? Leaving saying, "Hey, you know what? We can agree to disagree, but you're still my brother. I love you, man. I'm praying for you. You know, call me if you need me." But that's not the response you're getting from even your friend Matt. I mean, even though I don't know, don't the response I got from him was not this. Hey, brother, I disagree with you. Um, you know, I want to talk to you about these things. That's not what I got from him. What I got from him is, you know, little Jeff and it's like, okay, all right. Um, and and now that I know he's your friend and he's willing to talk to me, I'm willing to do that. I guarantee you, me and him sits down in a room together and we start talking these things together, he's not going to take those pop shots at me. He's going to be respectful as I'm going to be respectful to him. We're going to disagree on some things. We're going to share some disagreements and some passions. But at the end of the day, I guarantee you when we leave that me, if he's full of the spirit and I'm full of the spirit, when we leave that that meeting, we're going to embrace each other. Hey, bro. Love you. You know, let's talk again. That kind of thing. So, internet can be great a great tool. The internet can also be a toxic toxic tool if not used appropriately. Challenge me. Challenge me. I don't care. Right. Think I muted myself. And allowing each other to uh to simply talk and and see what we can learn from each other and actually agree to disagree. So yes, I agree with a number of things. I think people mistreating you, speaking about your weight, make fun of you, uh, hate mail and all that. I don't I don't support that. I don't promote that. Uh, but the theological position you took is definitely something I don't I don't encourage. I think that can take you down a very bad place. And I I'm I'm also very strong and my opinion is that your theological business can take you down a bad place where we're at. Yeah. Yeah. Very easy to say. It's opinion. It's an opinion. It's an opinion thing. And I've also I've also looked at this, you know, I I've learned to be very responsible with my relationship with the Lord. I I don't blame any 7day Adventist leadership for my current spiritual condition. Uh although I know they have a role to play in that, but what I do is is really what I do based on my conviction on the word. Like the word of God is available. As long as that word is available, I'm accountable to God for the way I read and interpret and practice what is said. Uh but I do think there are things that our leaders can do better to edify and strengthen the faith of God's people. Uh members of the seven adventist church, there's no doubt in my mind when I get to preach. I I do that. I push the envelope. I challenge. I call for repentance and stuff. Uh that's the way I like it. And I like to be pushed and challenged as well. Uh but nevertheless what I'm trying to say is brother day you responsible for your own spiritual condition. Uh the church is not responsible for that. You can't blame you can't blame Ellen White. You can't blame any leaders of the church for where you are spiritual. I have not I have not blamed Ellen White the church or anyone. Yeah. No members of the church my spiritual condition because I'm human. I've made mistakes but I still believe I am in Christ. I'm still a believer and a strong uh uh my strong foundation is in Jesus Christ and his word. So I don't blame anyone. My if I blame anyone, it's myself. Absolutely. I re I appreciate you saying that because that that is that is crucial that people know know what you believe. And that's what I said in my first video, why you believe it and where it is found in the word of God. And and and practice what you preach, man. Because it's crucial that you understand these things. And some of us who are doubting and having issues with the church, look deeper into these issues and speak to people and look get the answers that you need. But my own other counsel would be be careful what kind of stuff you entertain because there's some things you may be weak about that can if you entertain the wrong thoughts, it can lead you down on a very dark place. I'm not saying this is true for you. I'm simply speaking to the audience. But now I want to give you uh uh two minutes if you can give a final statement. you you're speaking to the Adventist world right now. You want to let them know what they need to know about you as an individual and what what is that message you want to leave every 7day Adventist today on Advent Media Connect who's listening to you. We have over 2,730 people watching on Advent Media Connect. I had just looked at your channel. You have 300 and something people watching on your channel. So which means they came to listen whether you whether they love the gossip I don't really care but they are listening but the point of the matter is you have an audience now who's listening what is that message you want to give to them I would like to hear from you you know at the end of the day I just want to say first of all thank you to all who have tuned in thank you brother James for giving me this opportunity um and I love the the conversation we need more of these I think if our critics the Adventist critics and even the advent defenders would learn to come together more and be able to have these type of conversations rather than at each other, we would be able to accomplish a whole lot more. But I want to thank you guys so much for um for taking the time to watch this. I know I'm not everyone's fan and I know I don't have a lot of fans right now. I get it and that's fine. I'm not looking for that. I'm not seeking that. I'm not doing this for popularity. I'm not doing this for what good has it done me to take the path that I have? I think that there's a little bit of credibility that needs to be observed there in the sense that I'm in many people's eyes, I made it to the top of the mountain. I had a platform where I was reaching millions. I'm on TV. I'm you know I I was and I'm not I I never considered myself this, but there were many people that called me an Adventist celebrity. There's a lot of people that would not give that up for anything because of their ego or because of, you know, all of the attention they get. who throws that away uh unless they're extremely extremely convicted. And that is my case. I think there's a little bit of credibility there. I've lost everything in terms of my career and and and and what I have put into this church in terms of uh of my establishment and my influence. But at the end of the day, as much as I want people to like me, and I think everybody wants people to like them and love them, as much as I want people to like me and love me and support me, I want him to like me more. And uh and so I've taken this position and I've taken this stance because of the evidences that I have found that I know most of you don't know about and don't care to know about and probably uh think that I'm absurd and crazy for doing this. But I just want to say at the end of the day, if we're ever going to get to a point where we can we can at least minimize these contentions and minimize this this friction between those who are are absolute Adventist and those who are not. We've got to be able to create a safe environment where people can express doubts, ask questions, and be able to create open dialogue without people feeling like they're going to lose their job or feeling like they're going to be ostracized in their church community or or in the church or whatnot. And so, at the end of the day, uh you know, we also can't have this mentality of pastor day, uh you're going to take a bunch of you're going to cause a lot of people to leave this church, so why don't you just be quiet and not say anything? Well, you know what? It's interesting because Adventists do that very thing. And it's okay for the Seventh Day Adventist to go out with conviction, go out with their beliefs and convert other people from other churches and ste, and I'm not going to use the word steal. Some people would use that word, but definitely convert people from other churches into their church into their beliefs based on their convictions. But if someone else takes a stance to challenge them, uh, that may lead someone to start questioning those things, then, you know, again, I'm made to look like the bad person. you're just taking people away. We got to get rid of that. If Adventism wants to dish that out and they want to use those methods, when those methods are used back on them, they can't be sore about it or hurt about it. They've got to confess up to the fact that either their message is solid or it's not. And if there's critics like me or anyone who come after you, not in a hateful way, I'm certainly not trying to come out in a hateful way, but if I come at you and and challenge you and say, "Hey, this is the evidence I found. What do you say to that?" You got to be able to, and I'm, for lack of better words, put up or shut up. That's just the way it is. I I I have to do that, too. And I'm willing to open myself up to scrutiny. I'm willing to open myself up to challenge. If I share something publicly and someone comes with evidence that totally destroys that, I am big enough and man enough to say, "I was wrong." And I will adhere and bring my life and my teachings and my mentality in harmony with truth. That being said, I want to say I love you all. I love the Adventist church. I love the people of the Adventist church. This isn't some just fluffy response that I'm just trying to get a reaction. I really genuinely do. I don't like how many of you have treated me, but hey, like brother James said, it's human nature. We've all messed up at some point. We've all felt emotions and lashed out and and sometimes regret it later. Let's do better. Let's love one another. Let's get back to the Bible. And uh if you're going to believe in Ella White, do your thing. Do what you got to do. Follow your convictions. But at the end of the day, don't put yourself in a box where you're unwilling to be challenged on those things that you believe are absolute. The audience, they also the people love what you had to say. They're listening to you. And I'm I'm so glad that we open this platform and say go ahead. Uh you are on your journey. I think the Lord is going to lead you however he chooses to. and and I don't see you as an uncristian brother. I don't see you as a lost souls. I don't ever want to think that. I I think uh I do think you are wrong in some of the things you've said. Uh and I've already expressed that and but as far as a brother in the Lord, I I want to love you, respect you, and keep a connection with you. I've have connection with people that I totally don't agree with them. But I don't think you know when it comes to love you know when it comes to love and respect each other and being a Christians irrespective of a person theological position you can still love them you can still love the worst and the best because it is a law in itself that a man perspective doesn't change that I don't think my love and friendship for you that we've just built in the past 2 hours or so has to end because we don't agree theologically on some things I don't think we can't sit down and talk and have a meal and shake each other's hands and talk about the struggles we have as husbands sometime some of the things that we are going through. I don't think that's bad. I don't think I uh it's a bad idea to promote your channel even if there are things in your channel that I don't agree with. But you on YouTube, I'm on YouTube. We trying to make it on this platform and share the things that we believe based on how we believe it. There's nothing wrong with that. Um, yeah. I will also say my my my side to not side to my side note and counsel as a brother in the Lord. I don't think leaving the church was the best decision on this point. Uh, I think you've said it in your first video, you struggled and you tried to get the answers as long as you could, but I think you made the right decision as far as no longer teachings and you step out from, you know, from the teaching and preaching ministry into ABN. That was the right call because of the issues that you were having. But I don't think leaving the church would have been the right decision in this case. I think you should have leaving the denomination. Yeah, let me get that correct. Leaving the denomination. Thank you for that. Right. It wasn't the best decision. I think that's those questions that you were looking for answers to would have come in time. So that you I'm pretty sure you have a different answer to that because you've already been through that journey and you've been going through your struggle long enough. But that's my perspective. But as far as my other thing that I will kind of counsel against is don't build an anti-SDA ministry. You said you're not you're going to share some things and then cap it and move on which is fine but the next couple things you share uh it because once you get that character once you get that title on YouTube and it it hurts your ministry. It's going to uh I see your perspective. Yeah. It's going to hurt your ministry. And I' I tell you the 7day Adventist presence online is so small uh and the anti SDAs are going to to agree with you. But when people agree with you on some things if they have the wrong perception also they can draw you into a deeper dark valley. You kind of have to be careful with that. So I will say don't make it a journey of yours to go against the SDH church. it it often times don't end very well on the internet at least from what I've seen and experienced online. So that's just a side note but uh as far as your spiritual journey is concerned man I wish you the best. As a matter of fact I'm going to share with people there's a link in my live stream right now for Retank Adventism. Go subscribe. Go show some support to the man. Listen to his stuff. Uh if you don't agree you don't agree. If you're weak, if you're weak in a faith, if they weaken of faith, don't watch it. Go ahead. I'm not being condescending here. I'm actually I encourage as many refuting comments as possible. If you hate what I'm saying and despise what I'm saying, put it in that comment section as many as many because that just helps get our get our videos out there more. So, uh, and I also just want to say, brother, in closing really quickly, just to counter what you said about don't don't become an anti-adventist hate thing. I would also like to challenge Adventism in general to to reform and becoming an not building their ministry around becoming an anti-eangelic or anti-atholic. I agree. I agree with that. I think you got a fair statement here. It's one thing you show theologically what Bible prophecy says about Roman Catholicism. Oh, by the way, quick question. Do you see yourself still preaching and teaching the three angels messages now? Is it are the three angels messages in the Bible? Yes. Yes, they are. So, you you can say you're going to say Rethink Adventism that YouTube channel. We can expect the three angels message to be proclaimed on there. Absolutely. You're going to you're going to hear some response videos of what I believe very clearly the three angels messages to be. Now, there will be some differences and interpretation on a couple of elements, but I'm not actually going to reinvent much of that at all. I'm not going to reinvent that. I will be talking about the three angels messages. And I have no problem proclaiming the biblical three angels messages because it's biblical. It's there in Revelation 14 for everyone to see. And yes, the world needs to know what that message is. Absolutely. So my question is, if you preaching the three angels messages, for example, and as you you you preaching that and you exposing Babylon and you knew this one's coming, where are you going to take them? Which denomination, which church are you going to point them to? Or how would you say it now? Because I'm not saying you have to say what you used to say. How would you say, "Hey, this is Babylon. This is the papacy. This is the mark of the beast. This is what's coming prophetically. But what are we supposed to do about it as Christians? And I would like to hear what you're going to be saying to the people now from that perspective. So Babylon ultimately is the spirit of antichrist. If you if you study the scripture clearly, Babylon, the spirit of Babylon, the identity of Babylon is the spirit of antichrist. We have to be reminded there were many antichrists, not just one. The Bible makes it very clear in John that there were many in his day and there still will be many at the end of time. And so I think that, you know, you've asked me a theological question, so I'm going to give you a real quick theological answer even though I haven't really had time to to expound on this, but I will. And that's the fact that I think we have to rethink through uh when we teach come out of her my people, come out of Babylon. oftent times from an Adventist perspective, we are thinking come out of those denominations and come into ours. You said it earlier, they've got to come out of something and go into something. Well, this is a spiritual thing. And while I know there's a physical element to it, I'm not saying that there's not a physical element to it. There's this is a spiritual warfare. This is a spiritual battle. And therefore, we're talking about hearts at stake here, lives at stake here. And often times, Adventism, and I think this is where Mrs. White has I think misrepresented it in my opinion where basically things that she has been showed has shown her and projected from her that this is a denominational thing that apostate Protestantism, apostate Catholicism come out of all of those and come into the Adventist church when in reality you and I both bro know both know bro that the the uh the institution itself is not the church and there are many people on the membership books of this institution who have aligned themselves physically and spiritually with Seventh Day Adventism whose hearts are in Babylon. I I I can I can go as far with that saying that some of our institutions are in in they're shaking hands with Babylon. Just watch as media connect. But I will I will ask you, somebody asked in the comment, who do you say the men of sin is? Is that something you can see yourself saying publicly and identify the men of sin based on your sevenday understanding of that interpretation? Absolutely. So, so my my current stance is still the stance that it was before. I see the man of sin to be uh to be that leadership figure in the Catholic Church, the office of the pope. Many many years through the the through the dark ages, even leading up to today, I still believe that much of the Catholicism's influence has influenced a lot of Christianity in general. But here's the thing. Um I I I believe that there's aspects of Catholicism that has influenced Adventism. I do. Of course. And and and so in this sense, the man of sin, it's a it's a it's a it is a man. There are it's it's it's the devil himself really at the end of the day. That son of predition is the devil himself who is behind this antichrist power. He has influenced the office of the pope over the years. He's influenced the leadership of the Catholic Church. He's influenced various leaderships of Protestant uh uh evangelicalism and he's even influenced within 7th day Adventism. I think we need to be asking the greater question. If the church is God's people and not a denomination, if we're calling people out of Babylon, come out of her, my people, we're calling them indeed out of something and into something. And that's not out of something and into something. It's out of some one and into someone else. Out of the spirit of the devil into the spirit of Christ. That's what Babylon is really all about. out of the spirit of false Christianity of backwards message into true Christianity as found in Jesus Christ. Adventists will say they are the representation of that true Christianity. So will church of Christ. So will Baptist. So will Pentecostalism. So will Presbyterianism. We can go on down the list. Your opinion is not more mightier than mine or anyone else's. At the end of the day, I will preach what I believe is conviction. I will bring clarity to this overall battle, spiritual battle, which I believe at the end of the day is exactly what it is. It's a battle between Christ and Satan, the enemy against the true creator of the universe. And I want to call people out of a false religion, out of a false gospel into the true gospel of Jesus Christ, into Jesus Christ himself, so that they may have the rest and the spiritual peace and the assurance that they can have in Jesus Christ today if they will simply align themselves with true biblical Christian uh uh foundation is found in the scriptures. Okay. All right. I respect that. So you you want to call people out of that and you also believe seventh day adventists need to be called out of that as well which would would that mean that we are also we are now Babylon. I'm not you know Ellen Whitewood would would I quote right don't call the church Babylon. I think as soon as an Adventist is quick to call Baptists Babylon Presbyterians Babylon Catholics Babylon or anybody else Babylon though there may be truthful elements in some of that that aspect. I think that you have to now turn and see if you see the spirit of Babylon inside the Adventist church, then you have to call it Babylon. Uh but at the end of the day, I'm not about trying to point fingers at denominations or believers and say, "You're Babylon. You're in Babylon. You're in Babylon. You're not going to get anywhere there evangelistically." You have to, as Jesus said, if I am lifted up, I will draw all people to myself. What we're lacking in the Christian church in general is putting Christ at the center of everything we preach and teach. And I know Adventists, many Adventists will say, "Well, when I'm preaching these various doctrines, I'm putting Jesus at the center." Well, praise God if that's what you're really doing. Praise God. But I also know that a lot of them aren't. A lot of them are are more about trying to convert them to Adventist beliefs rather than converting them to Jesus Christ. And so, yes, I think at the end of the day, we need to put the emphasis back on the gospel. how a person is saved and put the emphasis back on Jesus Christ, the person that is saving us. And there you will see lives transformed and revivals will set loose. Oh, there's no doubt in my mind that is definitely the message indeed. But I will also say just like you've said, the 7th Day Adventist Church uh based on Bible, we don't even have to touch Ellen White on this one. Uh Revelation 10, Revelation 11, and we can go on and on. They have a specific mission. Would you agree? There's a spec specific mission. There's a specific message uh even a specific time in which to preach that message as well. We can go on to explain what that is. So there is a message. It is still centered in the gospel as you've thought for years. It's still the everlasting gospel. But we have to preach that message. There has to be a people who is doing that. Now we can go into the denomination or this this perspective because I believe Adventism now it's is so fragmented in so many ways. Some of us are you know we we are loyalist to the teaching no matter what. Some of us are more conservative in nature. Some are more liberal. Some of our total offshoots. Some of this it's it's a lot going on in Adventism. So we cannot judge each individual cuz it's a case to case kind of situation. But nevertheless one thing is true is that there is a message there is a remnant. Uh and you can say the remnant is much broader than the seventh adventist church and I will agree with you. But God has a church. He has to have a church in these last days to whom he has a church to his people. It is his people. Correct. It is it is denomination. It's not the Adventist denomination. Okay. So you're saying it's you can say it's not just the seven adventist denomination but you will say 7 church people also constitute God's church. Oh absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's a much better way to put that. Of course it is. Yeah, I said that from my very first video. Yeah, correct. So, uh, and I will agree with you cuz I think a lot of time we get hooked on a denomination and we start interpreting church in a light of general conference and be like, "Okay, no matter what they do now, you can criticize and point the finger and say this is erroneous or you attacking the church." No, we are the church. We are the church. Like, so that understanding has to be established and I appreciate you sharing that. Uh, is there any final things you want to say either about your ministry, yourself, and what else you want the people to know? You know, I actually I know people are thinking that I'm going to come and just remain in this constant state of theological argument. That's actually not where my emphasis is going to be in the long run. What my ultimate goal in ministry for my new ministry that I just launched or that I'm launching soon. Uh this this Rethink Adventism thing is a temporary thing. That's that's going to it's going to have its heyday and then it's going to stop. My main ministry is called the Real Media Ree. And I'll be I'll be releasing some stuff. I already have a a website for that. It's the real thereal media reethereal media.org. And uh if if you feel inclined to support us there. Actually, what our goal to do with that channel, we're going to be doing no refutes. We're going to be doing no bashing of anybody. No, we're not going to we're simply going to preach what we believe to be the true gospel of Jesus Christ. And we actually hope to do that through the emphasis of music and short films and uh and various other elements of media as well, but the real media. And so I actually am going to be pouring a whole lot more of my time in the near future into music because that's my first gift. That's my first talent. So, I might make you wonderful Adventist people so hateful and angry at me for a time, but hopefully down the road I'll soften your heart and win you back to thinking that I'm a pretty okay guy by re reaching your heart with some of the great beautiful music that I'm going to be releasing uh in the near future. And I'm going to be emphasizing on music and short Christian films. uh and we hope to even maybe start uh actually producing a fulllength series and films also based on biblical principles and uh and and biblical content. So yeah, forward to that and I want to say man, God bless you in your ministry. You are on your journey. I'm going to to respect that journey. Thank you that you were willing to come on Advant Media Connect to speak up and I hope we've we cleared some things in the air. There should be some better understanding now of your position. Uh like you like I've said, you know, we have some things we can agree and disagree about. But I tell you what, as a brother in the Lord, I love you, man. I'm going I'm going to miss you. We're going to miss those Sabbath school lessons. We're going to miss the zeal and the fight, bro. I know this is not a funeral. This is not a funeral. This is not a funeral, but we're not going to we're not going to be able to hear these messages anymore, man. It's one of those things I have to to to agree with. I'm looking forward to those Bible studies uh about Bible prophecy. I want to I want to see what you do with that. I want to see how you cuz I I love anyone who's studying the word and uh there's nothing wrong with those at all. So, I totally respect that. So, for those of you who feel inclined to support Ryan Ministry and also his YouTube channel, Rethink Adventism, it is below. By the way, uh that Rethink Adventism you're saying, is that a channel you're going to close when you're done sharing the things you want to share? I'm not going to close it. there, but I will once I've made my last video that will eventually come and I will never go back to that channel and I will never post any more content there. It'll just be there as a as a testament to the thoughts that I had for Adventism. Okay. All right. That sounds that sounds good to me. Ryan, you know, uh would you mind if I have a closing word of prayer for for you and and with you? Uh and also thank you for all the audience who watched us today. We have 2,700 people. This is breaking for us. We've never had this many people watching us live. So, uh, thank you, Ryan, for willing to to do that. This is huge. And I think, uh, yeah, people can say a number of things. I'm reading I'm reading the comments. Okay. Pastor James, before Okay. Some Let me let me read what you said here. Is that saved by grace some as this question? Please ask him what he does. Okay. Okay. Okay. Please ask him. Does he believe what what does he believe that the mark of the beast is is the question that you're being asked before we let you go. That's the final questions we're taking here. I'm glad I got that. So I believe that the seal of God is the Holy Spirit and I believe that's very clear in the New Testament. And so when you're sealed, now notice there's connectivity here because some people think, "Oh, he doesn't believe it's the Sabbath. He doesn't believe." There's a connectivity here. When you're led by the spirit of God, you're led in truth. John 14 and chapter 16 makes that very clear. John chapter 5 does clearly say that if that uh uh that he has given his spirit to those whom obey him. So when we go over to Revelation chapter 14 and we read that third angel's message that says, you know, it gives the warning to those who will take the mark of the beast, but then it presents the other uh the other side which is the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. Now, this is where I can't go too deep because I don't have enough time. But if you dig deep into what it means to be a commandment keeper from a biblical perspective, many times we think just those ten commandments and rigidly keeping the at the end of the day, there is heavy heavy emphasis in the New Testament, not so much on the Sabbath side of things, while that's still a commandment. And I still believe that anyone who rejects the the very concept of resting in Christ or resting physically from those labors on the on the day that God has set aside for us to do that. If there's a rejection spirit there, recalcentered spirit, I think we got to deal with that. But when you are guided by the Holy Spirit, you will be led into a relationship where you honor and keep the commandments of God. That is the commandments of Christ. Love your love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, and soul, which entails those first four in completion. Love your neighbor as yourself, which entails those last six. Now, I know other people are not going to agree with me on this, but when you get into that mark of the beast issue, the law of God is there. Absolutely. It's over the law of God, but to specify from a biblical perspective that it's, you know, it's the seal is is the Sabbath and therefore the mark of the beast issue is just about the Sabbath, that's an Ellen White thing. Ellen White was shown that you can't execute that from scripture. You have to go to Catholic statements to be able to pull out what they claim their mark is. And I'm not denying that those statements are there. At the end of the day, if you're led by the spirit of God and you're sealed by the spirit of God, you will worship him. You will give your allegiance to him and therefore you will obey according to Christ's life and Christ standards and Christ's law. But if you are not led by the spirit of God, you will be marked by the mark of the beast or you will obtain that spiritual mark of the beast which is a rebellious spirit and non-obedient spirit. A spirit that leads you according to your own mind and heart which we know is according to the enemy itself. So that's a real quick kind of juiced uh uh uh you know version of that. But I'm going to go in much more scriptural detail when I deal with that particular topic. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what, Ryan. I'll tell you what, Ryan, this is not a new uh conception. Are you familiar with love reality? Are you in relationship with them at all? I've had so many people reach out to me and Oh, you're you're in cahoots with love reality, brother. I can tell you God is my witness. I have never looked into or read anything about Love Reality. I've only heard things. I've heard things from people. I don't know who the leaders are. Um I'm friends with a guy that I think is connected with them. Um, but I I I've never talked to this guy. I've never had conversations with him. I have had people to communicate to me, "Oh, you're you're love reality. You're not a true Adventist." I don't know who love reality is. And uh, you know, maybe I should look into them to become more familiar with what what it is that who they are and who who I'm who I'm being compared to because I I have had people compare me to them. We've had we've had I'm not love reality. point. We've had some people who left the Hopefully I have love in my reality, but but I'm not with that particular That's good. That's good to know because the reason I asked that question is because the love reality group community, they say the same thing you just said. Spot on with the Holy Spirit. If that's the case, they're they're walking down the right path. Yeah. They say the Holy Spirit is the seal of God and and stuff like that. I by the way, I respectfully disagree with that. I know. Yeah. But uh but uh but again you allowed to say it here but it's just that uh the the concept you should I don't know I'm not sure if you should but some of the things you are saying love reality have been saying uh and they are they are not loved of course by the seventh administ church even elder Wilson disavowed that group publicly uh and there are some things in their theology that are very twisted. Uh some things I would say your opinion. No, actually I've looked into it. They I've read I've read I've read some of it and read but but you understand if you had somebody from Love Reality on here they would say oh yeah exactly. Exactly. But actually you I will I will encourage you to look into it because you'll be able to see clearly oh these guys have gone a whole different direction in the way that they interpret scripture. But they place they place a large Yeah. They place a large emphasis on grace that I will actually I kind of agree with with that element of it. is just that they they they almost at a point where they reject the ten commandments. It's almost at that point. So, but um but anyway, this is not to get down that they pro but you sounded so much like the love reality group. It was like, "Wow, I can't believe he just said that." But uh but again, I respect that. So, there goes the answer to the question you guys were asking. So, the man just told you where his position is. So, you don't believe the mark of the beast has anything to do with Sunday enforcement at all? You say that's a person who just not walking in the spirit in a sense. Is that what you're saying? Well, I I say I say this. You have to be able to exedute that from scripture. The day that you're able to show me a text or a series of clear explicit text that teach that the Sunday laws or that the uh the mark of the beast is going to come down to a Sunday law, I'll believe it. See, what you're sharing there is by faith. And I don't throw any shade at you or any Adventist, but this is where I had to come to grips. At the end of the day, that's an Ellen White concept. And she gets it by taking text and she builds an an ideology from concepts in the scripture but the conclusions are cannot be executed from scripture. So I have actually I have an entire video where I didn't use Ellen White at all where I went through the scripture and improve where the mark of the beast is from the Bible just that alone. Yeah, I have an entire video and if you want me to send those text and say that it's going to come down to a Sunday law. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would be a good video for for for people to watch, but no. Uh and again, um we can talk and talk, but I think I really appreciate your answer. You guys the answer that you guys were looking for. The man has spoken. You can agree and disagree and let's show some respect to the man. He's entitled to his opinion here. And I think uh this was a respectable dialogue. I would you say you agree? You've learned some things here. just say you appreciate I appreciate your cordiality. I appreciate your kindness and I thank you for allowing me to come on and clear up some of these things on your platform and uh and I want to thank your audience. I know again many of them are are are maybe hate me and don't like me. That's fine. But but I still love you guys. I respect your opinions. I respect your positions. Um but at the end of the day, I just hope that we can still be brothers and sisters in Christ. love one another, respect one another, talk and engage and communicate respectful with one another because if if I am lost, I know some of you think I am. He's lost. If I am lost and I am heading down that path of destruction as you think that I am, do you actually think that you're going to win me over with your very very extra phariseaical condemnatory spirit? You're not going to do that. You're not going to do that. you're going to push me further away because why would I want to come back to a church like that and sit by a brother like that and and hear a brother sing about the greatness and the faithfulness of God when I know he has a spirit like that. Again, I know that's not reflected of all Adventist Christians, but at the end of the day, I don't decide these things or my positions based on feelings or based on how the church treats me. I base it on what I believe the Bible to teach. the Bible and my understanding of the Bible is what has brought me to these convictions and I stand on that. Let me summarize what most people I would say listening to some of the comments I would say maybe 70 to 80 people that are watching here are saying this we love you but not the path that you take like that is a good that is that's a good we love you guys so much correct not the path that you've taken. Amen. Amen. So uh so that's the position that most people in the comment have and that's my position as well. I love you as a brother but I think the path you're taking is not a good one but I don't think I don't see you as any less of a Christian. I don't see you as any less of a man. I don't think the name calling and rhetoric and verbiage that's been used in the vitriol. I don't think all of this stuff is necessary. I think we got to be better Christians in our hearts than most of that. So I think thank you so much Marcia for this for this comment because that summarizes exactly how I'm feeling as well. So uh and again uh the link to his YouTube channel I just gave it to you guys. So I'm going to post it again. So here is the link to the man's YouTube channel. You want to support you can support the man. You don't have to agree with the man. But hey, this is where he is. It's just what it is. So go check it out. Subscribe to his channel. There's 2,000 of views watching. So uh for those of you who disagree with this interview, it is what it is. Uh we we talk uh the man is allowed to have an opinion here. I advocate all the time for against censorship when it is being censored with is Conwad Vine being censored. I said we're not supposed to be doing that. So we should not be censoring we should not be censoring Ryan Day either even when he is saying things you and I may not agree with. You grow and study stand where you believe as a Christian as a Seventh Day Adventist. Uh but I don't think censoring the man is the best solution. Now, you can take that information, go deeper in your research and study, debunk it, extract whatever it is you want to do. That's up to you. But this is where he is. And I think the man was allowed to have a voice. And I and I hope our conversation today did make a difference as far as clearing the air from all the misconception that's out there. So, I appreciate that. All right. Thank you, my brother. All right, my man. They love you, man. They love you. They love you as a man. They love you as an individual. I got to tell you, there's a lot there's a lot of love in the chat. There's a lot of love in the chat. So, I don't see too much hate coming from here. At least not for my media connect. this you you you safe here. Praise the Lord for that. So, let's let's have a final word of prayer. Father, we thank you uh so much. We pray for brother Ryan Day uh that you may continue to show him the way that you will have him to go. Uh Father, we don't know what's happening. We don't have all the details. You know his heart. You know where he's been and where he's at. So, Father, we simply uh we agree to disagree, but we pray for blessing over his life, for protection over his life, for you to provide for all of his means as well. We also pray, Father, for the Seventh Day Adventist Church that there's some things we can learn. There are things we can do better. There are ways we treat people. We may have to do some changes as well. I pray that those who are listening today will take this information and filter it, check it out, examine what was shared through the light of the word of God and make up their own decision and come to their own conclusion. And once again, we thank you. We pray for Ryan Day, his lovely wife and family that you may continue to use him, Lord, however you will have him to be used. and his ability to sing. We pray that you will continue to sing those wonderful musics for your glory. We give you thanks in Jesus precious name. Amen. Amen. God bless you guys. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a good one, everyone. Thank you, my friend. Have a good one. You can stay backstage. I'm going to end this live stream. All right. Byebye. Byebye.