the dragons are at it again i'm telling you exactly what i think and i'm telling you what i think with entrepreneurs i can give you a massive speed if you want to keep digging mids is there a marketing strategy you're not me what should i say some will fail you can admire as well if you want steven because i'm not convinced she's punishing us but who will succeed i think you ask what's on i think she might just make you a millionaire [Applause] [Music] welcome to dragon's den where the only thing that's guaranteed is the unexpected prepare for twists and turns of plenty as novice entrepreneurs face off against giants of business in a bid to win big cash first up is glaswegian paul crawford whose business was based around banging tunes and beats per minute up until a few years ago i previously owned one of the world's most renowned electronic music clubs oh you think you drink it or apply it please tell me it's alcoholic i think stephen bartlett might like the product because it's young it's up tempo it's energetic and will like it because it's got sustainability at its heart but it's got fun running right through it [Applause] hello dragons i'm paul crawford and i'm the founder of panther milk the world's first plant milk based ready to drink cocktail brand panther milk is 100 vegan and is inspired by an old spanish legendary drink called leche de pantera which has its origins in the 1920s of spain i discovered that when i owned one of the world's most renowned electronic music clubs and we used to run club events in barcelona i quickly told all my dj friends and all promoters about this drink and i decided to bring it back to glasgow it was so successful that we sold out every other weekend i always wanted to make a ready to drink vegan cocktail brand so last year i worked with a drinks consultancy company in glasgow to make the change from dairy based milk to plant baseball and so i'm asking the dragons for a 50 000 pound investment and return for a seven and a half percent stake in the business to bring this panthers war to the 2020s thank you plant milk based ready to drink cocktails is the offering from paul crawford if you open your boxes you'll see all the flavors labeled he's asking for fifty thousand pounds in return for a seven and a half percent slice of his company oh strong has discovered that paul's panther milk packs a punch click one of those that you've got but it's the tigress of t side sarah davies who's first to get her claws into the questions paul yes well while everybody's trying it out i'll let try and get under the skin of the business a little bit sure so just give me an idea then this bottle here are you buying it in all ready to go as a bottle no i i have a manufacturer in glasgow they buy all the ingredients bat chip mix it bottle it and then sell it to the wholesaler and i get 2 pound 28 of the big bottle and 60 pence on the small bottle so what are you hoping to do this year and what is the longer term aspiration for the business we managed to generate sales of 31 000 pounds in our first six months and we projected sales of 567k for year one with a gross profit of 180. so you've done 31 grand in the first six months you're forecasting by the end of the year to be at 567. yeah we have got the festivals on board so the festival uh revenue we estimate to somewhere between 100 and 150 000 we have three at the moment with talks with the follow two okay and the longer term plans for the business longer term we're projecting year two a sales of 1.89 million what's the marketing strategy that's going to get us there so recently we're going to let people try so the marketing strategies we're going to let people try it yeah it's experiential so you're going to be associated with good times i've already been having influencers drinking the brand is there a marketing strategy yeah yeah absolutely because i don't get a sense for a marketing strategy here you said we're gonna let people try it and you know influences but to me that's not a clear compelling marketing strategy you can be honest with me yeah absolutely but that is why i'm here obviously i don't know all the answers oh i've got a background in the industry i'm new to launching a drinks brand so i need a bit of expertise to guide me on the journey [Music] he was a hands in the air club owner but now paul the entrepreneur holds his hands up and admits he's lacking experience when it comes to building a blues brand but it seems his plant-based product has grabbed the attention of green queen and preferred investor deborah meaden i think this is really interesting because the market what what who would you describe as your demograph i would say it's 18 to 25 because it's quite a high tempo kind of drink you could compare it to the tequila rose kind of market which is a cream strawberry flavor liqueur so your demographic has bang on the beacon demographic exactly yeah yeah yeah and the other one you talk about the strawberry what was it tequila rules i like the way that you know she knows the names of the cocktails i like that so um that milk based or is that yeah that is that's full cream and vegans at the moment can't drink any milk-based or cream-based products yeah yeah okay oh yes now i can understand i'm not chasing them i think i've got a fizzy head already [Music] this is not an area of my expertise but you're a six month old business you turned over 31 000 pounds i think it's too small and too early if you come here a year later i said guys i'm doing a half a million turnover i want 150 200 grand investment then it's a real business but at the moment it's not impossible for me to come out [Music] a sudden departure from two suleiman is the first hint paul might not be set for a cocktail party tonight as the youngest dragon stephen bartlett was in the entrepreneur's sites as he entered the den could he have spotted some potential in the beverage business i really love the brand name i actually also think it tastes nice like especially the salted caramel one i particularly liked that flavor and then i thought about you know what i could do for this business and how much i'd have to do for this business and to be honest the amount of work that i think i'd have to put in to help you build up your marketing strategy would mean that in return i'd need over 90 of this business and i wouldn't advise you to give away 90 of your business to be honest um and i'm not looking for a full-time job i'm looking for an entrepreneur and an investment that i can support yeah and so although i love you and i love the products and i'm gonna finish the salted caramel one unfortunately i'm out no problem thank you thanks you can have mine as well if you want stephen because i'm not convinced what put me off is i turned it over and there's all of the yeah sorry it does stay on the bottle shake oh that was shaking the other one well you know with land basement products you will get some settlement it's always natural it did put me off and i'll be totally honest with you the alcohol pictures are my favorite pictures in the day because i get to sit and sip a couple of cocktails and for me to leave all of this alcohol sitting here there's got to be something wrong yes i like anything and i have to love the product and i just don't so it's not me today i won't be investing thank you paul yes i think it's a great brand by the way panther milk i think you really thought about that i think that really resonates yeah but i think to tucker's point this is really early stage for a business at the moment in a highly competitive market and at 660 000 valuation even if we halve that this business today isn't worth two to three hundred thousand it's just not something i'm gonna want to invest in so i'm gonna say good luck but i'm out three more dragons pass on paul's panther milk proposition only deborah meaden remains she's already noted that the drink could hit the spot with a dairy-free but cocktail craving market will she invest in the vegan-friendly venture [Music] i think you are spot-on thank you i know you are because i was having a conversation with a drinks business and looking for new market entries actually they were looking for vegan so i know you're spot on yeah the name's great yeah i think this is very exciting so i'm going to make you an offer okay going to offer you all of the money [Music] but i want 30 of the business [Music] that's obviously quite a huge jump from where i'm at if you could come on for 15 um i'd love to go with you but just double what i've actually came in here asking for that's too far off [Music] can i have a minute you can chat to the wise wall debra medan spots an opportunity and makes her move but her 50 000 pounds comes at a cost paul will have to hand over four times the seven and a half percent equity he originally offered i'm praying for his securities and it seems the glaswegian entrepreneur isn't ready to accept those terms if you could go to 20 then i would love to do it but i can't go be alone 20. i would agree at 25 percent [Music] [Applause] okay you've got a deal good i think we're gonna do something really good with it okay i think she might just make you a millionaire thank you paul is king of the jungle he departs the den with the 50 000 pounds he was seeking and a dragon partner who will help his business well you fought like a cat together i didn't i sat here very quietly finding my own business waiting for you to go out i saw that it's just a absolute roller coaster of our around you know quite exhausting it was a lot more than i wanted to give away but i do like deborah's vibe so i'm really pleased that she's on board [Music] next into the a luxury lingerie brand with a difference [Music] the brainchild of edinburgh based caroline kennedy alexander and sarah bell jones who harnessed personal adversity and transformed it into the driving force behind their business emotionally it's been a massive journey for all of our women who have been part of this process over the last three years of product developing it's really important to highlight that abra is not just a functional item it is an emotional support and that's what we're about we support our ladies in more ways than one [Music] hello dragons i'm caroline and i'm sarah and we are love rose lingerie today we are looking for seventy thousand pounds in exchange for fifteen percent of our company love rose is named in memory of my sister rose that i lost to breast cancer i watched another sister mary go through breast cancer and then i got it twice i had a double mastectomy with reconstruction and there's not much i don't know about how this makes a woman feel her confidence her femininity because it's not just about the physical scars it's about the emotional and the psychological skills too the post-surgery laundry market in the uk is currently worth 7 million pounds and it's been catered for primarily by medical brands which are functional but old-fashioned love rose offers a luxury choice which is thoughtfully designed and dare i say it sexy we've spent the last three years working closely with our focus groups to design and prototype our range of laundry to see the different outcomes of surgery women like me had no choice in breast surgery but we deserve a choice in our lingerie love rose love yourself thank you thank you high-end lingerie intended to help post-operative breast cancer patients look and feel fantastic is the proposition from caroline kennedy alexander and sarah bell jones can i ask um so how supportive is it not only is it really really supportive but also with the added excitement of being sexy again because i've got every right to be as still the duo are asking for 70 000 pounds in return for a 15 share of their company thank you so i absolutely love this i love everything about it i can see the difference you make to people's lives but are you sure you're not the only people doing it no there are some independents but we're the only ones that have the real luxury element to it and right so how many post-surgery brands are there because i think bravissimo do them as well and there's a lot of high street bras um but again it's like um they're all following the status quo of the design right so there are other people doing more entry-level yes but that you you visit yourself right and price points how much do they sell for the bras range from 85 to 90 what are they costing you to make 29 pounds to make now in terms of the design what are the features so if you're holding our hey good looking bra all of our bras have fun names um so that is a pocketed bra for a woman who wears one piece said that's what there's your pocket so that's that bit and then what's the purpose of this design so the hammock at the back that's some of our engineering that's how the breasts stay up in a soft bra so it adds structure because you you haven't got the under wiring yes one question for you have you got any design protection in there because this is clearly a very well thought out bra they're registered we haven't done ip because in fashion as you know it's it's it's hard no but i just wondered if there was any technical piece in there that you were able to protect we just have cleverly designed them you've just cleverly designed them the entrepreneur's bras may be ingeniously designed but their lack of patentable potential could create an early stumbling block to dragon investment now fashion tycoon 2 kasilyman wants to know more about their company's success to date let's just talk about the business you've been going since when so we self-launched in september 2020 mid pandemic is sales yes 7600 so it is small it's very small with modest i know this industry very well yeah building a fashion plan is very difficult i know yes your problem starts is that you're trying to cater for a very very small market however your cost of product is high already for what it is and therefore you've got one arm behind your back for your start you have 29 pounds you know it's it's difficult but i'm going to change things for a second in my head if you want to cater a product to women that have got needs and what i would afford is if you'd come in here and said we are the brand that will help women in all these specialty bras which they require women who are pregnant want a pregnancy bra women who are breastfeeding want to breastfeed in bra women who have surgery when a surgery bra what i'm saying is to build a brand like this is very difficult because you have very small usp i think because so i think it's the opposite i've got to be honest i think building a brand exactly what i think and i'm telling you what i think you don't want a super broad unemotional you're gonna get involved okay so love rose has nothing to do with pregnancy if you want to build a brand amongst a small group of people a really clear powerful storyline founded by the loss of her sister targeting a niche audience who have a very big problem in their life with a clear emotional message i mean what else do you want invested it appears the challenges of building a brand in a hugely competitive market are enough to provoke discord amongst even the dragons is an empathetic sarah davies poised to restore a much needed degree of harmony to the death that really spoke to me when you came in and pitched at the beginning i have friends who have had mastectomies i can absolutely see how bringing a little bit of luxury and that feeling sex to that market yeah is so important i think a lot of what two was pushing at was as an investor we want to understand the real scale of the opportunity so i was quite surprised when deborah was familiar with another brand doing this and my concern is i wouldn't spend 80 to 90 pounds on a bra and i can afford to do that yeah you know i spend 30 pounds but perhaps there are a few if you were in the situation where you had had a life-changing operation you needed to bring your sexy back you might do i completely understand that however my worry is you are not solving a problem for everyone no you are solving a problem for a niche of that marketing you can afford to justify that spend yet and on that luxury yeah it's a luxury product and we chose that market to go into to start the brand because that was where the gap in the market was but very soon we will be bringing in an engineering product which will sound like a more crowded market and such a difficult industry and i always said i would never i wouldn't take a gold cow and get involved in the laundry market okay so i'm sorry guys that's okay wish you all the best for the business if i can help in any way i'd love to but i'm out disappointment for caroline and sarah as a first dragon declined the deal deborah meaden was perturbed by their products lack of protectability but has she seen sufficient opportunity in post-op lingerie to table an offer i don't think i've ever sat here and wished that a market would shrink as much as i wish this market would shrink i think it's lovely but i think it is niche niche to the point of it being very difficult for me to understand how i would get a return on my investment okay that's fine um but i genuinely wish all the best of luck and i think they are lovely beautifully designed [Music] caroline sarah it's great it's inspiring and i have no doubt in my mind that you'll have a great business out of this but i think that this isn't a type of business for me as an investor because i think that when you want to look to try and build a brand like this specifically in lingerie to be really exciting big business it takes millions if not tens of millions okay so i wish you the very best but it's just not an investment for me today i'm gonna say i'm out um but good luck thank you ladies and what can i say i think building a brand especially a fashion brand is very difficult especially from the beginning you know trying to get your collection together get it made and then find the factory to make your volumes because you've got sales so they charge you more so you've got to charge more to the consumer so it's ambitious so you know for that reason you know surely as an investment i said i'm not going to invest them out okay four dragons are now out only stephen bartlett remains he's helped build some of the biggest brands in british fashion so is he willing to add caroline and sarah's creations to his collection first of all thank you for such an inspiring presentation i think you have a great product i think you have a great brand story that i know is driven by two great entrepreneurs that are not going to give up regardless of how tough things get and i think from a marketing perspective having a clear usp and clear audience to target whether that's with digital ads or with your brand messaging is actually going to be the best chance you have of creating a customer base which you can then expand upon i think you have demonstrated that this is a business [Music] but i don't think you've demonstrated that it's an investable business and for that reason unfortunately i'm gonna have to say that i'm out thanks thanks caroline thank you so much so much guys sadly for caroline and sarah they must leave empty-handed whilst the duo's aims were universally applauded their business couldn't park the dragons from their cash disappointed but it's not going to stop us we will just pick ourselves up and carry on women on a mission we'll pick our boobs up and yeah bring it on [Music] so caroline and sarah didn't manage to secure an investment in the den but they did garner praise and win the hearts of the dragons next tonight is london-based zara saleem she's hoping to capitalize on a family secret that's been passed down through the generations my grandmother and my mother they created recipes of their own so it's very much been a part of my life growing up with skincare and using my own remedies but it's not just wisdom gleaned from her elders which zara hopes could stand her in good stead in the den i used to be a primary school teacher so my audience is usually small children so i'm hoping that that helps me in some way hi dragons my name is zara and i'm here today to ask for a 50 000 investment in return for a 15 stake in my business delicious delicious is an all-natural vegan cruelty-free ayurvedic inspired skincare brand originally from india aya buddha is one of the most oldest healing systems in the world and it was around three and a half years ago when i was pregnant with my second daughter that i developed a really terrible dry skin condition not wanting to use any cream to add any chemicals in them i decided to use my knowledge on aveda which has been passed down to me from my grandmother and my mother to develop my own skincare recipe and it was that i discovered one miracle ingredient which is indian black smt my skin transformed within a week and i knew that i had found my hero product so i decided to launch the brand while still on return to leave from my job as a primary school teacher with a newborn and a toddler in tow and within six months the brand was featured in lot of press and i also landed a deal with the hut group and supplied glossybox with 100 000 units of my body scrub this then enabled me to expand the range to three different body scrubs they're 100 natural vegan and plastic free too i would like to use the investment to expand my range and include facial products and i would love to have a dragon on board to help me scale my brand delicious is more than just a skincare brand it is about diversity and representation which the skincare market desperately needs to see more of and growing up i would have loved to have seen a brand like delicious on the shelves thank you a black tea based indian influenced body care range is the proposition from zara saleem who's looking for fifty thousand pounds in return for fifteen 15 share in her company deborah meaden is keen to try and get under the skin of the vegan friendly business first of all i have ayurvedic yes what's what's the s what's behind that absolutely so um like i said it's a very old are you of ayurveda ayurveda it's a system of medicine it's an alternative therapy okay so ayurveda kind of spans across not just skin care and hair care but it's diet it's exercise it's a way of holistically managing your health but through the use of natural ingredients okay great thank you so now i understand why that underpins what you're currently doing so in terms of the ingredients of this which have a lovely smell about them these are all clean ingredients yes they are parabens no sulfates absolutely um no nasties okay so do they see top to toe they are body their yep you can you can use them on your face you can use them just it literally is top to toe because it is 100 natural and who's making it i am i hand make all the products is like literally like a kitchen brand however we have now outsourced this month to a manufacturer that that that parade that is handmade yes i shall treasure that as a handmade product oh i'm sorry zara appears to have thought of everything as she woos an environmentally aware deborah meaden but perhaps the inclusion of an instruction manual would have helped her struggling peter jones i'm trying to work it out because i'm looking for the press the turn how do you get that out yes you do have to press quite firmly um the bottom is the base it's a push-up disc wow yeah and then you just kind of glide on you do have to be quite gentle because if you push out too much um you have to kind of get something else to push it back in i've just done that what's happened yeah not being rude i wonder if that is a design fault because i mean i've been pressing this and i'm quite strong i can't even well i can now and it's starting to break and then when it comes up it goes up too far and you can't push it back down yeah i have i mean i haven't had any customers have problems with the packaging so because it's such a new concept i do want to fine tune it and i do want to make it better i do think that needs a bit of work definitely does need to be yeah that's fair [Music] the push-up packaging of zara's body bomb gives peter jones a problem to ponder will stephen bartlett be able to help get the entrepreneurs ailing pitch back on track with some probing questions about the background of the beauty brand when did you start the business what year so it was 2018 i'm gonna give you an idea of how your business has progressed in terms of sales yep sure so um year one we turned over sixty four thousand year two which was covered year the turnover kind of dropped so it was a turnover of twenty five thousand however this year in the first five months i've already turned over 45 000 and i'm on track to end the year on 150 000 with a growth of 100 and a net of 66. i'm more concerned about the fact that during the lockdown your sales completely plummeted because that's highly unusual especially in beauty that in my mind has to be a reflection of the product i think it was probably me to blame as well in the sense that i am very much like a one-man band and the covered year i had my kids at home and i think i took that time to kind of step back did you did you have another job or did you no i didn't and then did you pay yourself have you paid i don't i don't pay myself i don't take a salary so and of those five in the last five minutes you said you did about 40 50 pounds 5 000. give me an idea of where those sales happen in terms of channels yeah sure so um i would say a large sales has been from my social media i've seen like a massive growth so um i organically grew my tik-tok platform from zero followers in january to about 40 000 and i had a few my videos go viral so i had a couple of videos with like a million views but it hasn't but it's not generating the sales though is it so this year it has really massively helped i truly believe if i was to continue with the marketing strategy that i am and i would love to have some help on that because i've not spent a single penny on advertising or marketing but if you've got a million or millions of views already and that hasn't presented in hundreds of thousands of pounds with the sales yeah it might be the fact that the video is really good but they don't want the product i just agree i think that why didn't that result in sales um i think it did because i started on like 2 000 3 000 pounds a month from like january and then it started to double double last month was 20 000 pounds in sales and i feel like it's growing because people are finally seeing the product and seeing the results that customers have it is honestly insane i cannot even believe the results that people are having it's quite life-changing for a lot of people zara defends her product against dispersions that are sluggish eyeballs to earnings conversion rate is contrary to kindred competitors trends tuka sullivan has been listening to proceedings quietly has he been able to make up his mind as to whether this is a venture worthy of his investment [Music] you're great thank you enthusiastic and i miss one with it it's bad luck yeah i'd like to just hear what sarah's got to say being um you know a woman in who would being a woman [Music] [Laughter] um from what i can ascertain sitting here it seems great i honestly thought well you said skincare i was like wow you've got great skin it must be amazing but then you said you don't do any facial products yeah no i don't do anything but you can use a body scrub on your face and i've got some really good ideas for new products as well so i feel like i'm on the cusp of something yeah and i can hear that and your your passion and enthusiasm for it it's brilliant what difference do you think i'm going to make as a dragon coming on board i just feel like you would have the connections and the support network and you know that marketing strategy we can absolutely put products on shelves what we can't do is take them back off the shelves yeah you've got to have this sell through yeah make the product a success and my worry is that you've had a window on these you've had great major exposure it hasn't correlated into sales you know they always say business is about hard work great determination drive and you just need that bit of luck i feel like you've had the middle look and that didn't convert and i'm not sure we're lucky enough to get a second time round at it i wish you all the best in the business but i don't feel like i can invest today i'm out a setback for the body care entrepreneur asara davies fear that her customer base as well as her good fortune could prove finite [Music] debra meden may have been made up with handmade but does she believe zara's products have what it takes to stand out in a crowded market i cannot tell you how many boxes of samples i receive a week this is a busy busy place and this is why try to get yourself to the head of that race is really really hard and honestly i have a bad feeling that if i put that against all the other boxes that i get i'm not sure i would pick it out sadly i have a feeling that's what's happening to you online so i wish you all the best thank you and zara i used the product on both my hands i was surprised that one side of my hand to compare to the other it literally stripped it clean and it was brilliant um i loved everything you said as the voice over everything that you stood for on the rationale and your why i just think that the product itself does need a little bit more work done on it to make it absolutely what you want it to become and then perhaps you might get more customers thinking this is exactly the product and then you mix your message to a great product and then i think you will have success but the moment i think it's a bit early for that so that's the reason sadly i'm going to say that i'm out but good luck two more turndowns for zara but could a zoned in on the zeitgeist stephen bartlett be about to adopt a more supportive stance i just endorsed a couple of things you'd said so the first is the ayurvedic trend which is a massive trend on social media at the moment and the product i actually really like the products as well i think it smells great i think this is interesting and that actually makes it more compelling as a story so i think you've done a lot of things right yes the thing that i've struggled with is every time i look down at my book and it shows that dip in sales between years one and two i don't know how that's possible even considering the covert circumstances because the unpredicted chaos of covid perfectly represents the journey of an entrepreneur things happen and it's absolute hell at times and as an entrepreneur your outcome successful failure is often determined by how you adapt and what i can see in that year is that we weren't able to adapt when unexpected chaos showed up yeah that for me is concerning and i can't get over that so unfortunately i'm out zara i think you're great [Music] however as a business i think maybe you need to go back and just have a really look at this yeah because somewhere there's a barrier so it's not investable and for that reason i'm out thank you thanks so much good luck with this unfortunately for zara she must leave the den with nothing her tea based body care range may have failed to bag the backing of a dragon but the entrepreneur remains confident that her products can cause a stir i still believe that brand has a lot of potential i'm going to continue to grow the business expand the range and hopefully see some more success out of it [Music] entering the den isn't for the faint-hearted absolutely breaking it and the dragons could certainly be a fiery bunch this is shambolic i would rather stick pins in my eyes and invest in this so it's little wonder that over the years we've seen entrepreneurs with crippling nerves others who really felt the heat can i get a tissue and some for who it was all just a bit too much i am so sorry but i am going to pass out but amazingly there are some never say die entrepreneurs who choose to come back for more like these brave midlands-based inventors who made their first appearance before the dragons in 2009. hello my name is peter neath my name is ian wharton and i'm the joint owner and inventor of pearl stream technology they believed they had a solution for keeping barbecues clean this is a standard rack with holes between the bars there's the fat and hopefully you can see it dripping through this is a grill string rack but instead it's collected and runs forward whilst the pair proved their contraption was an effective fat collector it's not dripping theorists was less convinced the idea could be a credible cash collector the only way this product can make money is the license deal so where do we go the answer they gave was not what theo was looking for develop some new products okay thank you you have just snatched the feet out of the jaws of victory i'm out despite the roasting two things followed from that unsuccessful appearance the grill stream went on to become a hit and as they said to theo they did invent a new product over a decade since they last faced the dragons the pair are back to try their luck with their new idea it's a totally different product it's on a much greater scale they're the biggest sausages i've ever seen i've seen bigger chins up billy's in eyes forward hopefully deborah and peter will recognise us and remember our previous pitch we were successful with our barbecue business it was an opportunity that we think they missed nice and steady hello dragons my name is peter neath hello dragons and my name's ian wharton and we're here today to ask for 75 000 pound investment for a 10 share in our business source stream limited as bbq aficionados we use a lot of sources these are predominantly in single-use squeezy plastic bottles to give you an idea of the size of the problem one source brand alone produces 650 million of just one of their sources every year so we decided to try and do our bit and two years ago we started developing the plastic freestyle stream squeezers let's simply clip onto environmentally friendly glass bottles to allow people to move away from single-use plastic while giving that easy squeeze action that customers favor to determine whether there was a market for our product we put a short video onto twitter and we were pleased to say we had almost two million views we also put a short video on to tick-tock and had 48 000 views in just a couple of days so in your boxes there should be some sample squeezers it's made of 100 silicon there is no plastic content to it at all and we invite your questions hot chips an eco-conscious device that makes glass bottles feel like squeezy bottles is the idea that best mates peter neath and ian wharton are pushing so do your demonstration they're hoping to squeeze 75 000 pounds out of a dragon in return for ten percent of their business we do have another maker source here that mr navy peter will recognize reggae regular peter jones is first to quiz the entrepreneurs for a second time ian and peter you've aged well well thank you that's a good start you don't look any different to when you were last here and do you know what's really great is to have entrepreneurs that have been in the den and they choose to come back because it's a scary place and you've done it the second time well done great fantastic i remember your picture all those years ago i felt a little bit star struck there when you came through and thank you for bringing me some chips a pleasure i struggled with it a little bit at first have you been struggling with it there yeah so right now it hasn't dropped give it a little tap it will come down there's a little let's see go on deborah give it some welly i'm giving it some wedding you can bang the thing on the table [Music] i also think it's really well made i've sat here i've channeled me in a theater and i've tried to take this debate so that i could stay inside and have a look at it and can i hack us like get that apart god the big concern i've got around the business isn't the product i i think honestly your packaging is rubbish [Music] it's not going to stand out on the shelf it's not it's not going to grab attention what it needs is a demo and yes or tv shopping where you're showing people it's a demonstrable item sarah davies has built her crafting empire using the power of tv shopping is she showing some early interest by suggesting that that marketing medium could be perfect for the glass bottle gadget peter jones now wants to find out about the price point of the pulse product what do you sell it for it retails for a 14.99 what does it cost to manufacture the cost for us to buy is for three pounds 60. that's a lot i do a lot of silicon products right it shouldn't cost you more than two or three dollars maximum yeah i mean the one thing i can definitely offer is sourcing anyway look guys how many of you actually produced so far under those votes two thousand one yeah there's two not many exactly so if you went in for fifty pounds would the price change of course yes but what about 100 sure look i think you guys are engineers and i've been a good engineer don't get me wrong but there is what you call the running of this business that you're going to need a lot of advice and that's what i'm good at yeah [Music] to casually suggests he could help to reduce the entrepreneurs costs and demonstrate some potential interest in their business [Music] and stephen bartlett now wants to talk about the duo's efforts at the mainstay of modern day marketing social media you mentioned earlier you made some tick tock videos some twitter videos yes i'm guessing you guys didn't make the tick tock videos no our daughters well we made the video right but they loaded it forward so when the videos went semi-viral was there a link to purchase your product attached to that video at that moment in time it's like we said we wanted to test the market you're gonna say no aren't you so we did it about a year ago so you did that a year ago before you had a product yes just to see if people like the concept i've spent five six years making viral food videos and understanding how you get them to go viral products like this can sell millions and millions and millions on facebook alone with the right viral video so there's a huge direct to consumer business here okay i want a really direct honest answer to this question okay which dragons are you looking for because obviously with his success with the regulatory source i think he could open some doors for us and we also discuss your good self for social media and for online sales you know it better than us [Music] there's a gameplay tactic here what you do is you sit on the fence until you need to get off it yeah stephen tried to force your hand there you didn't need to get off the fence no but you're well and truly off the we've been too keen there to give another well honestly there would have been some areas that could have added value to the business but um i'll keep eating my chips i'll enjoy my ketchup and i'll wish you all the best i'm out [Music] [Applause] ian and peter's candor proves costly as their admission that peter jones and stephen bartlett are on their investor wish list causes sarah davies to make a swift exit and it appears tuka suleiman is also less than impressed with the duo's decision-making will the percent that's on the table be enough for him to see past the snob you know me what should i say i guess um you didn't see my value of what i could offer you made it very clear that i'm not a dragon of your choice no we didn't we didn't say that you did we were asked if we had a preference but you know we'll have a preference for certain i'm never second choice you weren't even third no offense we didn't need one but i'm surprised that you didn't see that the bay that i could bring to the party and for that reason i'm out okay [Music] come on third dragon not on the christmas card list [Music] it's interesting deborah's keeping very silent and quiet she's punishing us punishing us she's punishing you yeah i think she is because i think that also i think deborah quite likes it we do like deborah as well oh come on i'd concentrate on your two preferred investors if i were you we seem to have engineered ourselves into that position now i'm interested stephen what do you think i really i really like it [Music] great social media products you're able to demonstrate the value of them within 10 seconds and you can do that here okay so huge potential however if you want to capture the complete potential here there is another world to master and that is the the retail world and the dragons on both sides of me have tremendous tremendous experience in the world so if i were to come in on this deal i would be looking for one of the dragons either side of me to come in with me so i'm gonna wait for them to speak guys i'll i'll say something i think the product is absolutely um first class i think you've got something quite unique here on a global basis not just in the uk absolutely i'm sitting here feeling and it's this is where it's going to be a direct question to deborah is that i personally think you could get three dragons on board today that would absolutely knock this out of the park and all three have very different skills almost perfect to what you're trying to achieve here yeah that sounds good to me well absolutely well we're all dependent on their deborah's little bit of good will now it's not good well i'm not disappointed whether you choose me or not i'm just disappointed through your judgment yeah yeah because what you should have done is say i'm open to offers so let's put that to one side because obviously this is about the environmental piece glass is actually carbon wise as bad if not worse than plastic there is a drive in the market temporarily towards glass but longer term it's got its own problems but what makes glass better is the fact that you can keep reusing it so it can be recycled and plastic doesn't biodegrade at the end but i actually think in the hospitality industry there is a big use for this yeah so the answer is yes i'd be i would be happy to share with peter and stephen thank you which means that i would be offering you a third of the money 25 000 pounds four yeah so do we need to go to the back of the moment after their brinkmanship looked like it had backfired peter and ian have three investors poised to offer a shared deal but unusually it's the dragons who are conferring about the stake so i think i'd like to make an offer so we would invest 25 000 pounds each for 11 of the business each so that would ultimately mean for all the money seventy five thousand four thirty three percent to a third of the business in essence but you get three three dragons that fill in some of the gaps that we've been looking at and talking about all of them i'd say all the gaps [Music] the 11 and not 10 a piece 11 [Music] okay yes [Laughter] they exit the den once again but this time with a 75 000 pound boost to their business bank account and with three powerful investors in their boardroom i do think we've squeezed a great deal there for ourselves he went up and down deborah certainly made a squirm by staying quiet for so long but it turned out to be good [Music] so second time lucky for peter and ian who came back strong with a new idea after their first proposition fell flat and with a vegan cocktail also getting debra mead and seal of approval and her cash it's been another night of varied investments in the den proof that any idea worth its weight in salt or sauce can deliver up a deal next time you made the baby cry you made us cry down here what's going on no honestly life's too short it feels like i'm in las vegas this is the worst business proposition i've heard since i've been in the den i think you've basically got the avengers praise the lord [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] you