Ultimate Human Podcast: Transforming Sleep with Technology

I always say sleep deprivation is the new smoking this is what our generation are facing today if you go back 10 20 years ago a lot of entrepreneurs could say oh I work until 4:00 a.m. I sleep only 4 hours per night it was a badge of honor yeah while instead right now it would just look like okay so you're not really serious about your health you need to try to sleep at least 7 eight even 9 hours per day to take care of your body and your longevity in a few years your bed will become the most advanced preventative health platform in the world and I'll tell you how but I also tell you why the reason is Ultimate human welcome to the ultimate human podcast today we're diving deep into the fascinating world of sleep technology with poo Francis chedy the founder and CEO of eight sleep eight sleep is actually something I use every day in my life and Francis jedy was a former athlete and lawyer turned groundbreaking entrepreneur Mato is at the Forefront of revolutionizing our sleep through cuttingedge technological innovations stay tuned as we explore how technology is unlocking the true potential of our sleep and how artificial intelligence data and science can make us a healthier and more energetic version of ourselves hey guys welcome back to the ultimate human podcast I'm your host Gary Brea human biologists where we go down the road everything anti-aging biohacking longevity and everything in between I am super excited about today's guest you heard about his background um I am a big fan of the product that he's developed I'm a huge fan of his mission to improve and correct sleep and to bring technology and artificial intelligence to the table to help Americans sleep better get more sleep get more quality sleep deeper sleep and then Thrive I just think that if you don't have the foundation of healthy good sleep really much else doesn't matter so welcome to the podcast we actually just talking about the pronunciation of your of your last name and I apologize I've been traveling for 32 hours I just got back from the Middle East and um there was a like a sandstorm over there and I and I got really like the the worst sore throat from it I'm actually not sick I just have the sore throat from breathing in 30 pounds of dust for for four days but Matteo how how do we pronounce your last name I was telling you before the podcast started we Googled it and and there were all kinds of pronunciations and one of the pronunciation actually said it was a French pandemic syndrome so yeah so how do we pronounce your last name Frances welcome to the podcast Mato Frances thank you thank you for having me you know I'm I'm really excited um we're a week away from my sleep challenge we're going to take a you know tens of thousands of people through um you know tricks to get a better night sleep I was actually doing some research for the podcast and it's astounding to me that almost 35% of Americans are chronically sleep deprived um 30% of the world's population reports having some kind of sleep condition an actual sleep anomaly sleep apnea narcolepsy um severely interrupted sleep pattern circadium rhythm disorder I mean this is a much bigger issue than I think that uh Society is even aware and I know that my listeners are very very interested in tips and tricks for get a better night's sleep but I want to talk about your journey from being a lawyer from being an athlete into sleep eight and and your your interest in sleep technology yeah of course um and 100% agree with you about the importance of sleep I always say sleep deprivation is the new smoking yes um this is what our generation or know the the People of Our Generation are are facing today right if you go back 10 20 years ago a lot of entrepreneurs could say oh I work until 4:00 a.m. I sleep only 4 hours per per night um no it was a badge of honor yeah it was a badge of honor while instead right now it would just look like okay so you're not really serious about your health you need to try to sleep at least 78 if you can even 9 hours per per day to take care of your body and your longevity um but talking about me I'm Italian uh as you can guess clearly yes very clearly from my last name um when I was a teenager I was an athlete I was a tennis player uh that is how I was spending 99% of of my time outside school um and um and so I have always been into recovery physical activity and I always try to be you know fit right then my professional career started no I went to college and and I stopped playing tennis I had two surgeries to my knee wow um and then I became a lawyer uh a business lawyer I'm sorry yeah I'm sorry too but it's my scene um and so I work for two very large law firms doing um uh Securities and and finance at the European level and then I finally became an entrepreneur but uh there is this interesting Gap in my life that goes from probably when I was 19 to when I was 30 where I almost stopped doing any physical activity I always kept thinking oh I'm an athlete I'm in good shape by default so I didn't need to do that I can just work and then I have this realization when I was 30 years old that things were changing in my body that I was not in in in a great shape actually I still remember it was my birthday uh my 30th and and I decided to go running uh that day and after 5 minutes I couldn't run anymore right I was already tired uh and that is when I realized look if I want if if if I want to take care of myself if I want to be the person I always know thought I am physically uh it's better I I start taking care of myself again and so that is when I started looking into a lot of things to improve my physical fitness my longevity and sleep is the foundation of all this right if you look at health I think there are really three pillars there is nutrition there is Fitness and there is sleep and sleep is the foundational part of this pyramid I think I think most of the biohacking community would absolutely agree with that in fact I I was watching a hman podcast and he had sleep expert on um a few months ago and he and he and he espoused the statistic that was shocking to me and he talked about the the incidences of um of heart attacks um just during the 1eh hour sleep uh when we set the clocks backwards and we actually lose an hour of sleep and and the fact that there is um it goes in both directions and I don't want to quote the statistics because I won't get it exactly right but to paraphrase it um you know he he pointed out that when we set the clocks backwards and we actually lose an hour of sleep there is a concommittant increase in cardiovascular events and when we actually get the additional hour of sleep there's a um corresponding reduction in cardiovascular events corre so um and I know that's somewhat anecdotal but still you you see that just a slight alterations in the amount and and probably also the quality of sleep that we're getting have demonst effects on our health and I pride myself on um on being able to hack my sleep and I actually do use a sleep a so I'm a huge fan of what you guys do but one of the things you talk about is sleep Fitness correct right um so uh and I I I love that term because I I always say that I don't think we have a pandemic of mental illness in this country I think we have a lack of mental Fitness and so talk about what um what is sleep Fitness I mean how do you become more fit from a sleep perspective yeah so since when we started the company we wanted to approach sleep from a different perspective from everybody else right A lot of companies in sleep are about a a lazy Sunday with waffles in bed uh relaxing right that's not who I am um and so I always thought of sleep as a tool to maximize your productivity and your happiness during the day and so that is how I shifted the angle and I started thinking of of sleep as a as a an action and is an active activity that you can perform at night to then perform during the day and that is how we came up with with the name and the reason is if you are intentional and you put the effort into your sleep you will get the results it's exactly like going to the gym right you have to show up you have to show up X days per week for a certain number of minutes or hours and the results will come the same approach is required in sleep you need to be consistent you need to sleep a certain amount of hours it's easier and simpler than going to the gym uh so it requires less effort but it's still requires the same amount of diligence that is why we call it you know I think a lot of people uh and we're going to talk about this on my sleep challenge we have we have a routine for our exercise we have routines to get our kids to school in the morning we have routines for our business we don't actually have good sleep hygiene or good sleep routines and so we rely on um trying atics you know or we rely on other things to kind of tranquilize us into a sleep State instead of developing a really healthy sleep routine so to you what is what is an optimal sleep Fitness routine look like like what does it look like to be in really good sleep shape yeah and uh let me add something to what you just say because it is you really nailed the point an interesting thing I don't have kids right but I have a lot of friends with kidss and and babies and they all realize them I'll give you one I got a couple extras but parents realize immediately when they have a baby uh the importance of a sleep routine right for the baby true and so we know how important that is then we just forget that we should apply the same methodology to our own sleep but you have no doubt that the kids should go to bed at the same time wake up at the same time and be very consistent we just believe as we get become adult that that is not it doesn't true apply to our own bodies so the perfect sleep routine at least for me I mean you want to sleep somewhere between 7 and 9 hours right you want to go to sleep at a reasonable time meaning anywhere I would say between 9: and 11:00 p.m. and then you wake up uh based on know on the time yeah um so somewhere between 600 and 7 a.m. at least that that is what I do I usually go to sleep 9:30 to 10:00 a.m. and then I wake up somewhere between 6:00 and and and seven right um you want to try to pay attention to your sleep stages that is really important so how much deep sleep you're getting for me the magic number if is if I get more than 18% deep sleep I feel like a superhero 15 to 18 I'm okay below 15 uh and that's deep sleep so that REM sleep or separate from REM that is deep sleep so talk talk about the different levels of sleep because I think it's confusing when people hear there's Delta Sleep there's Theta sleep there's REM sleep there's deep sleep there there's light sleep and then there's then there's a waking cycle and and um you know I I actually wear a whoop I also track it on the on the sleep eight um and they usually seem to be very much in in sync with one another but um make a little sense out of the Sleep metrics for us I always try to to to simplify like if I was explaining this to my Grandma right and so I stay away from all the scientific definitions and so oversimplify you have your deep sleep you have RAM and you have light sleep and and again oversimplified is if you talk to a real doctor they will be way more sophisticated but I I try to keep it very practical so deep sleep uh happens um mostly in the first part of the night in the first half of the night you will have way more deep sleep than than RAM and deep sleep is when your physical body is recovering Ram instead is when you're dreaming and that is usually when your brain is recovering and is reallocating all the information that collected during the day in the library inside your own brain U and that tends to happen more in the second part of the night so what you will see is that your body tends to give prevalence to the physical recovery so if you sleep only four hours you will see you get way more deep sleep than than REM because of these allocation ah Because deep sleep is coming first exactly and then REM comes REM comes later and REM is not as deep a state as deep sleep correct and it's more focused on on the brain than than than the physical body the interesting thing is also that while you are in Ram your body is completely de deactivated so nothing is moving and the reason is you are dreaming right and so if you were dreaming and your body would be moving you would be actually moving the body and it could be dangerous for for yourself right um and so you're in this static position while you are in in in R REM um and if you sleep deprived your body will keep trying to give prevalence or priority to Deep Sleep versus Ram so what you're really penalizing is your brain functionalities and your brain sharpness so so initially when you get into this deep um sleep and you move from the deep sleep which is the body's um time to recover repair corre detoxify what have you and then you move into the REM stage um this REM stage is the stage where the brain is really the focus of the attention and you want the REM well you want both you want deep you want REM but you're saying that as you become more sleep deprived your body will prioritize the Deep Sleep correct which seems like a good thing but then at the detriment of REM sleep correct which is compromising brain function exactly because all the brain function all your know memory um mental sharpness all that comes comes from Ram right so actually if you for example when I have uh the board meeting uh of my company that day I always try to sleep 1 hour longer than usual really yeah okay uh and so that extra hour will give me extra RAM and I believe it will make me extra sharp so sharper now do you find that you can just decide to sleep an hour longer because I think most people would be like I would love to sleep an hour longer but I you know I wake up the same time every day or I just wake up and I can't get back to sleep I'm I want to talk about some of the Sleep hacks some of the Sleep tricks um that we can that we can use to to get a better nights uh sleep but I think that a lot of people would say man I would love to be able to just decide to stay in bed another hour some people that aren't even beholden to getting out of bed at a certain time really don't have a choice because their body wakes up and doesn't go back back to sleep um so talk a little bit about a good sleep hygiene or a good sleep routine that that people could develop in order to get into a good pattern of of of sleep a good sleep routine like they would plan their workouts yeah I think we we all underestimate the importance of the routine and so honestly the first thing you want to fix if you want to fix your sleep is just consistency you want to go to bed at the same time and you want to wake up at the same time and the reason is pretty simple you have a biological clock right um and by just training your body to feeling asleep at the same time every day and waking up at the same time every day at certain point it will just become a biological habit right and so for me for example I always struggle to wake up to wake up early my body just wants more more sleep and more sleep but um as I trained myself to wake up at 6:00 a.m. now my body it just wakes up at 6 6:05 610 on its own what time are you going to sleep somewhere between 9:30 and 10:00 a.m. okay in the in that R 10 p.m. okay yeah and 10 p.m. sorry uh 9:30 is my sweet spot I'm there 10 minutes with with my wife and then I start know falling asleep I'm lucky I can fall asleep uh very very fast quick um my sleep is not always perfect in terms of quality and performance and so I try to sleep a little bit more than 8 hours because then the real effective sleep will be around 7 hour and 45 minutes so that's like a 10 p.m. till 6:30 7:00 a.m. yeah the 9:30 to the 6 right is 8 hours and a half but then the high quality sleep the true sleep it it ends up being somewhere around 7 hour and 45 and if you were to partition out your sleep when do you find that you're getting the most beneficial sleep so early on you're getting the Deep Sleep um are you trying to extend the time that you spend in REM sleep so you have more advantages for your brain sometimes yes like the the the the morning of the board meeting if I I I try to not wake up at 6 but to wake up at 7 if I can that extra hour will make me um extra sharp yeah uh just more know agile mentally I will feel more rested um but the other thing is our product by changing your body temperature enhances some of these phases right and so what we see is we can enhance your the the percentage of your deep sleep and we can enhance the percentage of your RAM wow we also reduce toss and turns which is the other big factor uh negatively impacting Your Sleep Quality those are sort of waking states exactly right um and and so talk a little bit about how that occurs um because now we're we're we're bringing technology to to the fitness industry and I really want to talk about that because you have some really exciting Technologies even coming out you even had have some new technologies coming out but um what does temperature have to do and bio regulating your temperature have to do with actually extending deep sleep or or or REM sleep yeah so your body has what is called a circadian rhythm right which is this cycle during during the day and your body temperature already changes during the night so when you hear people say say oh you should sleep at 68° the whole night is not true it might be true for an hour but it's not going to be true for8 hours and the reason is your body temperature follows more or less what happens with the sun and the night right and so as soon as you follow as asleep your body temperature should drop and 3 4 hours before you wake up the body temperature should start Rising it literally follows the the sun imagine if you were in a cave it gets colder around midnight and then 2 three hours before or Sunrise the the the Sun starts coming out and it gets slightly warmer and then by the time there is the sunrise everything is warmer right and so there is this U curve that your body temperature follows and what our technology does is is just helping your body to do what it's supposed to to do so when I set set those uh settings because I'll do like my wife has different settings than I do she says it's too cold on my side of the bed but so um you know I said it to about a minus 3 now when I set it to minus 3 that's where it's starting out right when I get into bed Y and then as I'm as I'm progressing through my night of sleep is it then warming me up um you know the next morning and bringing me out yeah cuz I do notice a considerable difference in my sleep when I used sleep eight in fact I had a 100% sleep score two nights ago nice which was awesome for me I woke up and saw the the the whoop and I was like oh my God I posted it all over Instagram I was so proud of it um like 97% recovery and and 100% sleep score that's great yeah so um let's start for a for a second from from what is our product and then I go back to to your answer so it's it's a mattress cover that you can install onto any mattress and it will improve your sleep how through Thermo regulation so each side of the bed um will have a different temperature that changes hundreds of times per night to maximize your your sleep um and what's causing that change is it sensing your yeah so there are sensors in the mattress cover that you don't see and you don't feel but they're able to capture everything about your your your sleep your sleep stages your heart rate your HRV and your respiration and based on this Biometrics we have developed different Algos that that keep changing the temperature to maximize your recovery and uh sleep stages particularly deep sleep and R um this was already proven from a clinical standpoint before ate sleep so again we are not Reinventing the wheels there was plenty of evidence that by changing your body temperature during the night you could get better S I think that's well St yeah and so what we did is we just created the first consumer product at scale that could just do that for every human being right and so each side of the bed can have a different temperature so if you sleep with a partner and the partner has different preferences different biometric different body mass whatever everything will be personalized and so you go to bed and the bed has obviously a temperature and that could be whatever you like you might like it cold you might like I like it a little cold when I get into bed I actually really like that yeah yeah I'm not surprised we see a lot of our users preferring particularly men they like it really cold uh well instead most of the women they like it slightly warmer um as soon as you fall asleep you want the temperature to drop even more so in deep Sleep you want the coldest possible temperature that you can stand and afford and for everyone is different right our scale goes down to minus 10 um in terms of settings for you you might likeus 10 I might like minus5 yeah- five is yeah but you want something colder because in deep Sleep the colder the better to maximize that that phase wow then when you start getting more RAM which is again is in in the second half of the night you want a slightly warmer temperature and the reason is this that when you are in Ram your uh brain deactivates the temperature control of the body itself and so if it's too cold the brain will not let you fall into RAM because he fears you could die right and so you want a sort of neutral temperature where your brain thinks okay everything is safe you can get into RAM how does the how does the bed know when to make this transition um it's it's it's monitoring your HRV your your respiratory rate and what have you and how does it know that okay they're they're they're sliding now from Deep Sleep into a rem state so we're going to go ahead and warm this this up a little bit what what's going on yeah great question so we we detect a ram and oversimplify the again one of the easiest way to detect the ram is that first you're not moving right we go back to what you were saying earlier your body is is standing still yeah uh in in bed but your heart rate is accelerated because you are likely dreaming so you are living an experience but your body is now moving so oversimplified this is a proxy so this is how it understands that you're going into and then obviously there is more information about HR HRV all the different transition between the different slep stages so we have um AI alos that now have been trained with I think we cross millions of hours uh of sleep wow um in certain areas still blows my mind like heart rate and HRV heart rate we are 99% as accurate as a medical grade EKG wow which if you think is pretty impressive that you go to bed as you did for the rest of your life and this device now is as good as a medical grade EKG wow so it's so this is picking up your heart rate yeah 99% accuracy compared to medical grade AKG uh 96 97% accuracy at HRV and 97% at uh uh detecting your respiratory rate wow and so it's a combination of the respiratory rate your HRV and and these other metrics movement I was going to say is it also seeing how much you're moving around and then when things quiet down heart rate slows down um or or heart rate actually increases uh then it starts to help you move into the next phase of sleep correct and and when you capture this um data are you then updating the algorithms is the technology getting smarter when we do updates to you know sleep eight is it progressively using more and more and more data because I I really think I did a talk this past weekend about how just exciting this time frame is in our life because we have the convergence of all of these different um diagnostic tools um with massive amounts of data with artificial intelligence that can make sense of the data and actually give us actionable steps and I think that you know depending on who you talk to some of these futurists will say if you're alive in 5 years you're going to live to 500 I think if you're alive in 5 years you're going to live to between 120 and 140 um very easily if you were born today uh who knows I mean you could easily reach reach 200 but I think a lot of it has to do with this intersection between artificial intelligence and massive amounts of real human data and and what we can do to put that into actionable steps correct so is it so so talk a little bit about how this algorithm is working is it is it becoming more intelligent is it is it continuing if if if someone was using a sleep eight would it progressively continue to get smarter lack of better words yeah um is a great question and so the answer is yes think of it of of it like um the Tesla autopilot right and we call it our autopilot and so it learns every single night from uh the whole user base and it becomes more sophisticated and more intelligent and I think you said something uh that that is put on about how we use AI to really enhance Human Performance and human longevity because AI at the end of the day everyone is talking about that but it's just a tool it's like mobile right mobile apps but they are not a business per they are a tool that can enhance other activities the way we use AI is exactly to enhance your sleep performance which means that then you can have know better performance during the day better health and hopefully uh a longer and healthier life right the way it works usually there is what is called not the AI training a AI um there are different types of training one based on the data and one based on alos self-detecting what the next type of learning could be and so our alos they keep improving based both on the data that we collect in the field plus what they self train themselves for wow and the interesting thing of all this is not just that we give you better sleep but is how we personalize sleep because to get better sleep is not that one situation or one cooling or one temperature fits all right your temperature is different from mine um your temperature is different from the one of your partner right different gender maybe different age different body fat percentage there are all these different factors plus every day is different right let's say probably I I don't know if in my case I I I don't have alcohol but some of my friends they do oh that's the worst I mean just so we need to self-correct that true temperature at night really so you can actually offset some because usually alcohol has an impact on your heart rate on your HRV on your body temperature and so probably you will need a slightly colder temperature the same if you work out in the night I play paddle I have a Thursday usually on Thursday usually I have a a puddle um tournament okay at 8:00 p.m. by the time I go to bed uh I try to readjust all my temperature settings because I had adrenaline heart rate is accelerate body temperature is accelerated and you just do that on your app you just dial it down and make it colder correct so you and in the in the near future there will be tags so you can just tag alcohol or physical activity physical activity we can also get the data from um from Apple uh because you can connect the Pod to your Apple Health okay and then for women there is pregnancy which completely changes all their settings and their sleep there is their period and there is menopause right and so we see a lot of women buying our product because they are going to menopause they have hot flashes and they can't sleep anymore and also women that are going through their normal um menstrual cycle or their different phases of the cycle where actually the temperature major hormonal changes and they start having some sort of hot flashes or their body temperature changes so sleep is so Dynamic even within the same person that because of what you ate the time you ate the activity or if your body particularly for women is going through different periods of the month or or your lifetime you will need different setting wow um I didn't realize it was that sophisticated I mean I do notice that I'm getting better sleep but my and and my wife does too but um you know for menstrating women I mean that is a that is a huge deal I mean we we actually had a big discussion about uh intermittent fasting and and menstrual cycles on females and I had um a renowned physician on the podcast talking about the detriments of of of always treating minrating females exactly the same way meaning like you they have the same feeding window you know every day of the month when their when their cycle changes it can be disastrous for their hormones and you know sleep seems to be no no different so this is intelligently Gathering data and changing the temperature based on where their body temperature might be and what helps them get into deep sleep versus REM sleep and what have you exactly well and there is where you can really Leverage The Power of AI yeah that's just going to say the same thing this is the really exciting thing about AI I mean millions of people with millions of different Biometrics millions of different genetic makeups body temperature you know um metabolisms metabolic rates what have you you know sleep schedules and all getting their own data to improve the metrics for themselves so so talk a little bit about um good sleep hygiene or good sleep routine other than just you know sleep aid in your in your bed when you go to bed but um what are some of the uh Preparatory things that people can do to like enhance getting a good night sleep I mean I think everyone that I've ever spoken to about sleep that that has um you know any any any kind of wherewith all on on sleep is is consistent about how important consist consistency is Right same time going to bed same time waking but what are some other things that they can do red light um screen time you know breath work what are some other things that you find being in the industry are are good sleep routines that people could yep use to hack their sleep hey guys if you've been watching the ultimate human podcast for any length of time you know that one thing I do not do is push products I do not just let any Advertiser into the space because I believe that the products that appear on the ultimate human podcast should be things that I use every day in my life to improve my own physiology one of them is something called the echoo plus the echoo plus is a hydrogen water generator that you can take on the go you essentially take the top off of this bottle you pour bottled water in this and repeatedly it will make high part per million hydrogen water you press this little button you'll see these bubbles going up in the water that's hydrogen being created in the water there are all kinds of peer-reviewed published clinical stud on the benefits of hydrogen water including reduced inflammation better absorption of your supplements better absorption of your Foods better balance of the stomach acid and it feeds an entire class of bacteria in your gut hydrogen water in my opinion is the most beneficial water that you can drink and now you can take it wherever you go you can go to Echo e h2o.com that's Echo eoh h2o.com enter the Code Ultimate 10 for a discount Echo H2O enter the code ultimate 10 for a discount breath work is probably the one that I would recommend the most well happy to hear you say that I use it every night yeah all right um that is great uh it works you need to find there are different a lot of different types of breath work um in in in my case what I do I breathe in for 4 second I hold for 4 second I breathe out for 4 second yeah exactly that works really really well for me so that is one um the second um that I use this Thermo regulation even before going to bed and so there is an an extreme version that is if you have a sauna and an ice bath that is absolutely perfect you do a SAA ice bath you do two cycles after that you're ready to go to bed you will feel SAA for how long uh 20 to 30 minutes then you do your ice bus let's say 5 minutes it could be any between three and 5 and then you could do another round if you can um and end on cold and and then you can end end on the ice okay and and after that you just go in bed you relax and you will just feel so so relaxed and you will likely fall asleep if you don't have an ice bath or a coal plunge you can do something similar just with your shower uh you could switch between hot and cold um or a lot of people even particularly women love a a warm bath right so you could just have a a a hot and warm bath that really relaxes you even there it's something that we do with babies right and and now before going to bed we do their bath then we change them and then we put them uh to bed right so um there is plenty of History so now the the warm bath I mean uh so you've warmed the body up but then you're saying when you get into bed and you're actually cooling the body down this helps pull you into that deep sleep because after being in a hot bath your body will want to react to cool down the core body temperature and so that is what will help you fall to fall asleep because again to fall asleep your core body temperature needs to drop right and and and what is the drop in core core body temperature I've heard two degrees CSI 2 degrees Fahrenheit what is what is the necessary drop I mean because people that don't have a sleep a um you know I encourage them to sleep in a in a cold room 68 69 degrees uh Fahrenheit and that alone does have positive implications you know positive impact on on their sleep and we're going to take like I say tens of thousands of people through this uh this sleep challenge next week and we all joined the same group so we're all all part of the same group and we're going to actually use these uh sleep hacks one of which is the sleep eight um to to migrate through and and and check our sleep in the morning as a as an entire group so what what's the importance um and what's the physiology behind the body temperature drop I mean why is that cooling period so important yeah it's it it goes back to the to the Circadian cycle and what we were saying of the cave right so this U curve and so as soon as you fall asleep to maximize your sleep performance your core body temperature needs to drop and the amount of degrees is different for everyone in particular now based on gender based on Age based on what you ate but directionally you want to have this this drop that is why before ate sleep what was recommended was just to sleep in a cold bedroom because that is the easiest proxy to try to kind of help your body to achieve that obviously now with technology we can be way more uh specific and we can specifically adjust your body in very different uh ways but I don't know if you have this problem with with your wife but a lot of couples they fight around temperature and we definitely do yeah and the reason is she's very thin and and likes it warm and I'm the defin for your body is very different from the definition of cold for your wife right um and um and that is why the 68 degree in a bedroom doesn't work for for everyone and maybe then at certain point your if your wife is going through menopause 68 degree will not even be enough any more for her and now she want 65 and for you becomes too C right or she wants 60 whatever right sure um but the 60 would be nice and D that's that's down but the first principle is the same right so the body needs to drop right uh the body temperature the core body temperature needs to drop and so you can prepare your body to do that in a couple of different ways with technology with a colder room or with a bathtub um that is one way when you say the bathtub because the bathtub Heats you up first you taking talking about a warm bath and it's actually this drop in temperature which helps ease you into that that deeper rym or that deeper sleep that you're that you're after yeah another thing that sometimes for some people like me um uh I my my extremities are always cold right like the feet and the hands and if your feet and hands are cold you don't fall asleep right and so a hot a bathtub or a warm shower could help people like me or a lot of women have this kind of problem to make sure that your ex are warm so then you can fall asleep right um so and my my wife and I both have that um same situation so for for people that are um you know looking to take advantage without W you know with a sleep a to to maximize their um uh their sleep what about the you know waking up at night for frequent urination what about the people that um have a hard time going to sleep because their mind is awake um you know one of the things that we talk about is the is the mental aspect of fitness and of sleep Fitness and you're talking a lot about the physical aspect of of of sleep Fitness what what things outside of of of sleep a supplements um you know ways to to to stop or or reduce you know frequent urination at night and when I when I was going to have you on the podcast my my members sent me a bunch of questions that they wanted me to ask you and one was about frequent urination at night you might not have any um data on that but I figure since you guys are tracking millions of hours of sleep um do you have any tips or tricks for you know reducing frequent urination at night or you know um waking up and having a really difficult time getting back to sleep um sure so one of the thing we see the most is obviously your mind uh keeps racing right a lot of our users have have have that problem yeah um and so that is where breath work can can help and more than anything I would say 30 to 60 minutes before going to bed you I always call it getting in the zone because I'm an athlete right you need to get into the zone to prepare the for Sleep Fitness right because if you if you just keep working you just keep emailing with whoever and you're there fighting or working on a on on a big deal for your company right the know between the adrenaline and accelerated heart rate your brain just know keep thinking about how how do I win and now your body tired and your and your mind awake exactly which a lot of people suffer from and so the approach I always have for example is I'm not against you using the phone or the screen I just say pay attention to what you're are doing with your phone if you're chatting with your best friend about the memory of when you were a child and you had a great time that is still completely fine right because it putting you in the in in a in a relaxing mode and you will fall asleep if you are there fighting with your boss about the budget for the next year that will not help right God forbid looking at the news which is all just Doom and Gloom exactly so it's less about the screen per se is more about what you're doing with with your phone and the other big thing is all my lights for example switch automatically to Orange around 800 p.m. so you want to start developing and how do you do that you you with Philip okay I use Philips zo and so you can have an automatic setting where they switch to Orange and the reason is you want to you don't want to be exposed to Blue Light you want to be exposed to orange light they will help you develop melatonin um I almost never use melatonin unless I'm traveling or for jet lag because it creates some dependency right right and uh I test I'm testing we are testing at scale a a large amount of supplements right now to really help people to ease their mind to relax to go asleep to go to bed and then maximize their their deep and R and and what uh you know what are those supplements look like they're metabolites are they magnesium theine you don't like melatonin Gaba um you know what what kinds of compounds are you testing for you know improved sleep yeah what we have noticed is is is never just one you just want to stay away from melatonin you don't want to take melatonin every single day because otherwise you you just screws uh all the settings of the Melatonin level in in your body but everything else is fine the key is to find the right balance between filling it within 30 to 60 minutes so you can go and fall asleep getting high quality of sleep and making sure you wake up without feeling groggy right and so we are testing from magnesium to Gaba to glycine ashvagandha is another one with stress that seems working really well but the point is there are a lot of supplement company out there but not all of them they have the amount of data that we have right right now we collect I don't know 20 terabytes of Health Data per day wow and so this is coming through the app so you're you're you're millions of sleep hours correct right yeah and obviously everything is aggregated anonymized so it's not about any single user right but it's it's just this large library of anonymized and aggregated data that tell us what what's working and what is not working at scale because one of the things I don't like in medicine right now is know they publish a new study and this study was run for seven days on 15 people right right we have hundreds of thousands of people sleeping on our product every every single night and so we have a beta group and we involve some of our users and we're talking about thousands of them and in a week we can have 7 to 14,000 nights of sleep for every test that we want to run wow and so here is how I really think that medicine and clinical studies will really change and we will stop looking at studies of 50 people sleeping in a Sleep Clinic which is a foreign environment for 3 four five days which is not statistically relevant and we will start having data from hundred of thousands of people sleeping in their home in their usual head for maybe a month well right and giving you feedback in real time giv you feedback right because you can you can actually input things into the the uh you can input things into the uh app that that that says oh I had alcohol or I had corre uh didn't have alcohol and that is the one thing that I would say consistently destroy sleep um more than anything with no exceptions correct it is unbelievable and and it's it's astounding to me the uh the the small amount that it takes to have you know severe sleep disruption CU I think so many people are you know the glass of wine to go to bed at night kind of person and I my wife love of wine at night and sometimes Europeans some of my friends when I go back to Italy they still have also a coffee after dinner and I coffee and me yeah they'll have double espresso yeah yeah yeah I I see it all the time I mean I think that's a big European thing but you you know the even even a single glass of wine you know 20% easily at 20 % negative impact on your heart rate so it accelerates your heart and heart rate variability drops at 20% yeah heart rate variability down which is essentially a measure of your Readiness um and then your heart rate uh which is a measure of the state of your nervous system also also increases so they actually go in opposite directions and then your recovery your strain your your sleep score you know all all of those T tend to drop I mean I've given it up uh entirely and so so is my wife and I just sleep so much better now but every once in a great great while we were at a birthday party the other night and um for a very you know close friend and he passed around um you know thing thing of tequila and I was like well you know I haven't had drink in weeks I was like I'm not going to be that guy so we toasted I had I don't know how many ounces it was and um and that night my sleep was actually destroyed so was my wife which is how I knew it wasn't an anomaly so uh yeah that's that's a great sleep hack right there just get rid of the alcohol and if you really need to have or you want to have alcohol limit it and let some time go by between when you had the last drink and when you go to sleep right uh so if I don't know if you can have a couple of hours in between it will help that time helps um yeah and and um what about eating Windows as you approximate sleep yeah some people say two hours some people say 3 hours some people say it doesn't matter I totally take uh is with that but but um I have had people say it doesn't matter even if you eat and then crawl right in bed I think that actually destroys your sleep um but what's it what's the optimal time frame between your last meal and going to bed and and what kind of fluid intake should people be thinking about as they approximate you know bedtime yeah especially for men I think they a lot of my followers have issues with you know getting up at night repeatedly to go to the restroom sometimes they're like Gary I don't get it I mean it's not it's not like I'm getting up and it's like a fire I'm just getting up and you know couple Squirts and I go back to bed and a few hours later I'm waking up and the same thing is happening yeah so usually I would recommend at least two hours uh to stop eating two hours before going to bed even this is very personal there are probably some people that can eat 30 minutes before and they're not going to be heavily impacted but I would say the rule of time for 90% of people yeah is at least 2 hours 2 24 is perfect what I have seen in my case for example is if I have carbs so usually I'm on a diet I cheat only one day a week on Friday night with my wife we make pizza okay wow you really you go off the deepend there yeah that's awesome so you're keto all the time and then just break it once a week yeah um um but what I have seen if I have carbs usually I tend to fall uh to feel sleepy which is which is good but then my Sleep Quality will definitely will suffer uh particularly I will toss and turn more the the sleep stages will not be will not be optimal and so it's not just when you stop eating but is also what you eat if you have a very heavy meal it could probably be also be uh a lot of meat red meat um that will have an things that are hard to digest take longer to digest use more blood correct divert more blood from the brain to the gut you know it's an interesting um I was at a biohacking conference uh about two years ago and they they put participants in front of a thermograph and they they were measuring very sensitively the the Heat and and its dispersion through the body which is kind of an indication of where the blood is also and wherever the blood is the oxygen is and prior to our lunchtime meal the you know the the participants that stood in front of this thermograph their head was glowing you know bright red orange showing that there was a lot of concentration of blood in the head and then they ate varying levels of um glycemic meals um some ate very very low glycemic meals like eggs avocado and others ate pasta white bread white rice white flour um and uh I think they gave an asai bowl and you could see the the the higher the carbohydrate level the more heat went to the gut and the more oxygen went to the gut and and these people were significantly um less focused you know less sharp and they had less energy um they would just crash after these meals because of all that blood that gets diverted there so um you know I think that you know certainly not eating within two hours of bedtime two or three hours before bedtime is a major sleep hack because you're freeing up all that blood all that oxygen to go to other places you know in the body where you want it to be for repair and Rejuvenation especially into the brain um talk a little bit about the um there's a stage in sleep where the brain begins to eliminate waste through the lymphatic system right which is we have a lymphatic system which is throughout our body a static system then we have one in the brain called a glymphatic system do you have any data on you know when the brain gets the major you know the the the most benefit from sleep in terms of eliminating its waste cleaning itself repairing detoxifying regenerating you say that this is during the the REM sleep um but what's happening there and what what if anything can we do to enhance that yeah this is another great question definitely the most important phase for for your brain is is the ram right there is where okay you collected a certain amount of information your brain collected a certain amount of information during the day that is the moment where there is the clean up phas right okay what do you want to retain what do you want to throw away um and that is also why if you think know sometimes people wake up and they finally have a solution to a problem they have been working on for for months yeah my wife is majorly like that so is my chief of staff or sometimes people like like me I have a lot of ideas while I'm showering in the morning and again that is the result of of your sleep so your brain while you wear in Ram is still working on solving some of your problems or readjusting it reconnecting the dots of some of the problems you're working on mhm and so the there is no magic formula to really improve your RS there are all these different tactics that we discussed so try to to sleep a certain amount of hours because the second part of the night is when you get more RAM try to use and have the proper temperature around you you can play with some supplements um I play with supplements a lot there are certain supplements we don't have the results yet but there are certain supplements that give me very positive um dreams for example and others that give me very active but and too intense dreams right right right when I take a lot of melatonin I have very I get nightmares actually um and I know a lot of people that say the same thing which is why I don't I I'll I'll occasionally take a very small amount of melatonin 1 to 3 milligrams never more than 3 milligrams usually when I'm traveling yeah uh like you said most of us have a very difficult time meeting our protein needs and certain protein sources like way protein and others can be as little as 20% absorbable this is 99% absorbable and it has all of the essential amino acids that the body needs to build lean muscle to recover to improve our exercise performance and most importantly to repair after we have intense exercise so this is called perfect Amino by Body Health it's like I said 99% absorbable it only has two calories eventually the caloric intake has virtually no caloric intake it will not breaking fast it tastes amazing you mix it in water I take this literally every single morning if you're working out in a fasted State you have to take a full spectrum amino acid prior to your workout to preserve your lean muscle and make sure that you're recovering properly and again it will not break your fast so the caloric impact is virtually zero you get all of the full spectrum amino acids it tastes wonderful I use it every single day you can go to bodyhealth.com ultimate that's bodyhealth.com ultimate and look for the perfect aminos they actually come in capsules if you're on the go or it becomes in several flavors that they make in a powder which I love it's flavored with natural um uh means of flavoring so there's no artificial sweeteners in here so this is one of my absolute favorite products give it a try if you're working out at all you need a full spectrum amino acid go to bodyhealth.com timate that's bodyhealth ultimate I love their lab tested products you can actually see the absorption rate for all of their products they've got great electrolyte protein combinations my favorite is the perfect aminos bodyhealth.com timate and now back to the ultimate human podcast but I've I've taken high do melatonin before one of my friends convinced me to do it because he said you'll get the best night sleep ever it was absolutely the most horrifying night of sleep I'd ever had and I had very very Vivid very dark um scary you know dreams that felt very real and it was one of the worst nights of sleep that I but I had so what what are some of the things that uh that you do when you travel um when you're on the road um clearly you're not you know bringing all the equipment with you so how are you hacking your sleep on the road what what are your tricks for yeah so when I go to the West Coast and if I usually let's say I go for 3 days I try to stay on the East Coast time time on MH so I wake up really early and I go I kind of like that out there I do the same thing I like it cuz you're you you get like three extra hours in the morning nobody's bothering you you're working out at 4:00 a.m. you feel amazing exactly yeah you know I I love it my son and I talk about it all the time we love going you know from from Miami to La cuz 7:30 we're smoked exactly and we just go to bed at the hotel and then get up at 4:00 in the morning you got half your day done I I love that too so I try to stay on that time zone so once back I'm um I'm ready to go with my consistency if is a long flight if I'm going to Europe I try to use melatonin to readjust I like for example when I go to Europe to fly in the night I go to the hotel and I immediately go to the gym and so and I try to night no I land in the morning so I I leave the US let's say I leave Miami usually the flights at 8: or 10:00 p.m. and you land around 6:00 to 8:00 a.m. it depends where you're going I try to immediately get sunlight I try to immediately have some breakfast even if usually I don't have breakfast but I want to reactivate my body and then I try to go to the gym perfect and then I stay up until uh the night it will it will be hard somewhere around 12:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m. I I really feel sleepy M uh but if you can cross that window then you will feel good and then I take some melatonin in the night and I try to go to sleep and when you say some melatonin how many milligrams are you normally yeah one to two one to two yeah that's one to three about what I'm doing um W said again West Coast I just stay on my routine I try to set the right temperature of the of the of of the bedroom I try to do a a bath or a or a shower before going to bed so I I try to replicate the same habits yeah and sometimes I do some breath work if I feel I cannot yeah the Box breathing really I mean that's that's another one of those hacks that's worked very very well for myself and my audience you know the 4 second inhale 4 second hold 4 second exhale 4 second hold that seems to work incredibly well for lots of people and it's free I mean you there's no downside to to to trying that I find that if I tried to do six or eight Cycles I don't think I've ever make made it to eight Cycles yeah you know as I as I sort of get to that I get actually tired of doing it and I'm and I go right down into sleep I mean blows my my wife's mind so uh talk to me a little bit about what the future of of sleep eight holds I know you've got some technologies that you're working on that you're releasing some you're you're willing to talk about some not yet um but what is the future of of sleep a because you know what's exciting to me is this convergence again of AI and and and data and massive amounts of data and the fact that you can actually make adjustments in real time and feed it back to these people that are trying trying to get a better night's sleep so where is technology going for for your company yeah in a few years your bed will become the most advanced preventative health platform in the world and I'll tell you how but I also tell you why the reason is the form factor we have a lot of space right our product is is at the price point where adding um certain sensors for $5 is not going to change anything right well instead for wearables they need they have battery problems they have space problem and because of the price at which they sell five bucks in the cost of the device makes a difference for for their margins right the other big thing we have is once you install our product you don't remove it it's not like a wearable wearable they have a lot of drops after 6 months people stop using it because they forget to charge it or to they forget to bring the charger with them right our product once you install it it stays with you for the next three four five six seven eight hopefully 10 years right and even if you don't open the app it still means we have the the data of what is happening in your body and so we can come back to you with valuable information but in 2017 I wrote a memo which is what then drove to um for us to raise the first large amount of money from K Ventures and the vision is what I call hyperpod hyperpod is a canopy bed right where uh there are blackout curtains and we control air temp temperature air quality and oxygen level while you're asleep and because there is a ceiling we work on certain technology for full body scanning so even when you were talking about Thermo regulation earlier in in in our chat that is something we are already working on wow so we want to scan your body every single night to detect early signs of certain diseases they might be developing in your body wow the other big thing is because we have this longitudinal data right some of our customers now they have been with us for four years so maybe you don't have a certain cardiovascular problem today but we soon we will have soon enough data to know that just based on the trajectory of your heart rate HRV and other Biometrics you might develop AR rmia five years later right the real power of AI and machine learning right now is will be the prediction not even the detection right detection will already be 100 times 100 times better because we can scan you every night right but the real true value to reach the 500 years uh of life will be to be able to predict five 10 years in advance what might happen with 80% chances and intervene now and intervene now because maybe you can start taking drugs for diabetes now instead and when you discover you already have the diabetes right and obviously for cancer you know things like pancreas IC cancer if you discover it very early you have 90% chances to survive if you discover it late you have 90% chances to die right and with thermal imaging maybe you don't know if you have a pancreatic cancer but what you could see is that the temperature around the pancreas is two degrees higher than what has always been your Baseline and so maybe at the beginning we will not know what the disease is or what the problem is but we will be able to tell you go to your doctor we don't expect to replace the doctor but go to the doctor and check this specific thing because we are seeing a thermal difference compared to your Baseline wow that is fantastic and and how soon on the horizon are some of these changes coming for you guys it's purely a matter of priorities meaning we could have these in six months right if we wanted the technolog is already exist so I'm not talking about building reusable Rockets like Elon 15 years ago right right all the pieces of the puzzle already exist it's just a matter of sleep do we want to focus on this now or we release the next version of the current product and how much money we want to deploy in R&D in one year versus over three years right uh but I already sleep in an hyper pod oh you do this is already available yeah I mean it's not available for normal people but for the SE of the company um for for the SE of the company yes and so I'm already sleeping in a canopy bed it doesn't have all the features yet but it has a uh many any of these features have you found any positive impacts even beyond the regular sleep a of H of being in this pod yeah uh first of all I mean even just the blackout cents they're very basic but sleeping in a completely dark environment makes a mass a massive difference yes I have tested um altitude t for quite a while and I saw major benefits in my HRV and HR uh most of these of becoming hypoxic and then correct hyperoxic okay exactly I I we actually believe that exactly the shifting between hypo oxid and hyperoxy multiple times during the night is what will give you the biggest Advantage but we need to run more clinical tests um sleeping in Mountain Air I call it so in a very purified um air the whole night for eight hours it should have a major benefit and then on thermal imaging we can already see a major inflammation so imagine even for athletes right you work with a lot of athletes if you're LeBron James and we start seeing you're developing an inflammation in your elbow U we're going to see it with high accuracy because these thermal cameras already exist wow that is absolutely fascinating well um tell this has been unbelievable um and I think my audience is going to get a lot of benefit out of this you know I I end every podcast this the same way I ask every every podcast guest if you watch my podcast you already know this question is coming um but I asked you know there's no right or wrong answer uh to this question I ask um you know what what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human it's a matter of Health spun and lifespan right lifespan we all know is okay how many years you will leave uh but the health span is okay let's say it's 100 Years hopefully or 100 years plus as were saying how many of those years know I will be active I will be able to play with my uh grandkids and I can keep playing POS with with my friends I had a grandma she died that I think she was 92 93 but probably the last 10 years of her life she was really sitting on on her chair right and it was still beautiful to have her because I loved her and and she loved me but she couldn't really live her life in way I I I would want her to have live it and so that for me means being a having a super human life wow that is amazing man guys uh definitely check out the sleep a I'm going to put links in um in the show notes below how can they find out more about you how find out more about eight sleep um where do they go to get more information on your product or your technology yeah go on um eight sleep.com eight spell out like the number um e g HT sleep.com so there you can see and find all our Technologies there is also something really cool coming out soon so stay tuned and for me you can find me on Twitter with my name and last name I'm pretty active there so you can ping me and ask me anything on Twitter and I will reply that sounds amazing and as always that's just science

I always say sleep deprivation is the new smoking this is what our generation are facing today if you go back 10 20 years ago a lot of entrepreneurs could say oh I work until 4:00 a.m. I sleep only 4 hours per night it was a badge of honor yeah while instead right now it would just look like okay so you&#39;re not really serious about your health you need to try to sleep at least 7 eight even 9 hours per day to take care of your body and your longevity in a few years your bed will become the most advanced preventative health platform in the world and I&#39;ll tell you how but I also tell you why the reason is Ultimate human welcome to the ultimate human podcast today we&#39;re diving deep into the fascinating world of sleep technology with poo Francis chedy the founder and CEO of eight sleep eight sleep is actually something I use every day in my life and Francis jedy was a former athlete and lawyer turned groundbreaking entrepreneur Mato is at the Forefront of revolutionizing our sleep through cuttingedge technological innovations stay tuned as we explore how technology is unlocking the true potential of our sleep and how artificial intelligence data and science can make us a healthier and more energetic version of ourselves hey guys welcome back to the ultimate human podcast I&#39;m your host Gary Brea human biologists where we go down the road everything anti-aging biohacking longevity and everything in between I am super excited about today&#39;s guest you heard about his background um I am a big fan of the product that he&#39;s developed I&#39;m a huge fan of his mission to improve and correct sleep and to bring technology and artificial intelligence to the table to help Americans sleep better get more sleep get more quality sleep deeper sleep and then Thrive I just think that if you don&#39;t have the foundation of healthy good sleep really much else doesn&#39;t matter so welcome to the podcast we actually just talking about the pronunciation of your of your last name and I apologize I&#39;ve been traveling for 32 hours I just got back from the Middle East and um there was a like a sandstorm over there and I and I got really like the the worst sore throat from it I&#39;m actually not sick I just have the sore throat from breathing in 30 pounds of dust for for four days but Matteo how how do we pronounce your last name I was telling you before the podcast started we Googled it and and there were all kinds of pronunciations and one of the pronunciation actually said it was a French pandemic syndrome so yeah so how do we pronounce your last name Frances welcome to the podcast Mato Frances thank you thank you for having me you know I&#39;m I&#39;m really excited um we&#39;re a week away from my sleep challenge we&#39;re going to take a you know tens of thousands of people through um you know tricks to get a better night sleep I was actually doing some research for the podcast and it&#39;s astounding to me that almost 35% of Americans are chronically sleep deprived um 30% of the world&#39;s population reports having some kind of sleep condition an actual sleep anomaly sleep apnea narcolepsy um severely interrupted sleep pattern circadium rhythm disorder I mean this is a much bigger issue than I think that uh Society is even aware and I know that my listeners are very very interested in tips and tricks for get a better night&#39;s sleep but I want to talk about your journey from being a lawyer from being an athlete into sleep eight and and your your interest in sleep technology yeah of course um and 100% agree with you about the importance of sleep I always say sleep deprivation is the new smoking yes um this is what our generation or know the the People of Our Generation are are facing today right if you go back 10 20 years ago a lot of entrepreneurs could say oh I work until 4:00 a.m. I sleep only 4 hours per per night um no it was a badge of honor yeah it was a badge of honor while instead right now it would just look like okay so you&#39;re not really serious about your health you need to try to sleep at least 78 if you can even 9 hours per per day to take care of your body and your longevity um but talking about me I&#39;m Italian uh as you can guess clearly yes very clearly from my last name um when I was a teenager I was an athlete I was a tennis player uh that is how I was spending 99% of of my time outside school um and um and so I have always been into recovery physical activity and I always try to be you know fit right then my professional career started no I went to college and and I stopped playing tennis I had two surgeries to my knee wow um and then I became a lawyer uh a business lawyer I&#39;m sorry yeah I&#39;m sorry too but it&#39;s my scene um and so I work for two very large law firms doing um uh Securities and and finance at the European level and then I finally became an entrepreneur but uh there is this interesting Gap in my life that goes from probably when I was 19 to when I was 30 where I almost stopped doing any physical activity I always kept thinking oh I&#39;m an athlete I&#39;m in good shape by default so I didn&#39;t need to do that I can just work and then I have this realization when I was 30 years old that things were changing in my body that I was not in in in a great shape actually I still remember it was my birthday uh my 30th and and I decided to go running uh that day and after 5 minutes I couldn&#39;t run anymore right I was already tired uh and that is when I realized look if I want if if if I want to take care of myself if I want to be the person I always know thought I am physically uh it&#39;s better I I start taking care of myself again and so that is when I started looking into a lot of things to improve my physical fitness my longevity and sleep is the foundation of all this right if you look at health I think there are really three pillars there is nutrition there is Fitness and there is sleep and sleep is the foundational part of this pyramid I think I think most of the biohacking community would absolutely agree with that in fact I I was watching a hman podcast and he had sleep expert on um a few months ago and he and he and he espoused the statistic that was shocking to me and he talked about the the incidences of um of heart attacks um just during the 1eh hour sleep uh when we set the clocks backwards and we actually lose an hour of sleep and and the fact that there is um it goes in both directions and I don&#39;t want to quote the statistics because I won&#39;t get it exactly right but to paraphrase it um you know he he pointed out that when we set the clocks backwards and we actually lose an hour of sleep there is a concommittant increase in cardiovascular events and when we actually get the additional hour of sleep there&#39;s a um corresponding reduction in cardiovascular events corre so um and I know that&#39;s somewhat anecdotal but still you you see that just a slight alterations in the amount and and probably also the quality of sleep that we&#39;re getting have demonst effects on our health and I pride myself on um on being able to hack my sleep and I actually do use a sleep a so I&#39;m a huge fan of what you guys do but one of the things you talk about is sleep Fitness correct right um so uh and I I I love that term because I I always say that I don&#39;t think we have a pandemic of mental illness in this country I think we have a lack of mental Fitness and so talk about what um what is sleep Fitness I mean how do you become more fit from a sleep perspective yeah so since when we started the company we wanted to approach sleep from a different perspective from everybody else right A lot of companies in sleep are about a a lazy Sunday with waffles in bed uh relaxing right that&#39;s not who I am um and so I always thought of sleep as a tool to maximize your productivity and your happiness during the day and so that is how I shifted the angle and I started thinking of of sleep as a as a an action and is an active activity that you can perform at night to then perform during the day and that is how we came up with with the name and the reason is if you are intentional and you put the effort into your sleep you will get the results it&#39;s exactly like going to the gym right you have to show up you have to show up X days per week for a certain number of minutes or hours and the results will come the same approach is required in sleep you need to be consistent you need to sleep a certain amount of hours it&#39;s easier and simpler than going to the gym uh so it requires less effort but it&#39;s still requires the same amount of diligence that is why we call it you know I think a lot of people uh and we&#39;re going to talk about this on my sleep challenge we have we have a routine for our exercise we have routines to get our kids to school in the morning we have routines for our business we don&#39;t actually have good sleep hygiene or good sleep routines and so we rely on um trying atics you know or we rely on other things to kind of tranquilize us into a sleep State instead of developing a really healthy sleep routine so to you what is what is an optimal sleep Fitness routine look like like what does it look like to be in really good sleep shape yeah and uh let me add something to what you just say because it is you really nailed the point an interesting thing I don&#39;t have kids right but I have a lot of friends with kidss and and babies and they all realize them I&#39;ll give you one I got a couple extras but parents realize immediately when they have a baby uh the importance of a sleep routine right for the baby true and so we know how important that is then we just forget that we should apply the same methodology to our own sleep but you have no doubt that the kids should go to bed at the same time wake up at the same time and be very consistent we just believe as we get become adult that that is not it doesn&#39;t true apply to our own bodies so the perfect sleep routine at least for me I mean you want to sleep somewhere between 7 and 9 hours right you want to go to sleep at a reasonable time meaning anywhere I would say between 9: and 11:00 p.m. and then you wake up uh based on know on the time yeah um so somewhere between 600 and 7 a.m. at least that that is what I do I usually go to sleep 9:30 to 10:00 a.m. and then I wake up somewhere between 6:00 and and and seven right um you want to try to pay attention to your sleep stages that is really important so how much deep sleep you&#39;re getting for me the magic number if is if I get more than 18% deep sleep I feel like a superhero 15 to 18 I&#39;m okay below 15 uh and that&#39;s deep sleep so that REM sleep or separate from REM that is deep sleep so talk talk about the different levels of sleep because I think it&#39;s confusing when people hear there&#39;s Delta Sleep there&#39;s Theta sleep there&#39;s REM sleep there&#39;s deep sleep there there&#39;s light sleep and then there&#39;s then there&#39;s a waking cycle and and um you know I I actually wear a whoop I also track it on the on the sleep eight um and they usually seem to be very much in in sync with one another but um make a little sense out of the Sleep metrics for us I always try to to to simplify like if I was explaining this to my Grandma right and so I stay away from all the scientific definitions and so oversimplify you have your deep sleep you have RAM and you have light sleep and and again oversimplified is if you talk to a real doctor they will be way more sophisticated but I I try to keep it very practical so deep sleep uh happens um mostly in the first part of the night in the first half of the night you will have way more deep sleep than than RAM and deep sleep is when your physical body is recovering Ram instead is when you&#39;re dreaming and that is usually when your brain is recovering and is reallocating all the information that collected during the day in the library inside your own brain U and that tends to happen more in the second part of the night so what you will see is that your body tends to give prevalence to the physical recovery so if you sleep only four hours you will see you get way more deep sleep than than REM because of these allocation ah Because deep sleep is coming first exactly and then REM comes REM comes later and REM is not as deep a state as deep sleep correct and it&#39;s more focused on on the brain than than than the physical body the interesting thing is also that while you are in Ram your body is completely de deactivated so nothing is moving and the reason is you are dreaming right and so if you were dreaming and your body would be moving you would be actually moving the body and it could be dangerous for for yourself right um and so you&#39;re in this static position while you are in in in R REM um and if you sleep deprived your body will keep trying to give prevalence or priority to Deep Sleep versus Ram so what you&#39;re really penalizing is your brain functionalities and your brain sharpness so so initially when you get into this deep um sleep and you move from the deep sleep which is the body&#39;s um time to recover repair corre detoxify what have you and then you move into the REM stage um this REM stage is the stage where the brain is really the focus of the attention and you want the REM well you want both you want deep you want REM but you&#39;re saying that as you become more sleep deprived your body will prioritize the Deep Sleep correct which seems like a good thing but then at the detriment of REM sleep correct which is compromising brain function exactly because all the brain function all your know memory um mental sharpness all that comes comes from Ram right so actually if you for example when I have uh the board meeting uh of my company that day I always try to sleep 1 hour longer than usual really yeah okay uh and so that extra hour will give me extra RAM and I believe it will make me extra sharp so sharper now do you find that you can just decide to sleep an hour longer because I think most people would be like I would love to sleep an hour longer but I you know I wake up the same time every day or I just wake up and I can&#39;t get back to sleep I&#39;m I want to talk about some of the Sleep hacks some of the Sleep tricks um that we can that we can use to to get a better nights uh sleep but I think that a lot of people would say man I would love to be able to just decide to stay in bed another hour some people that aren&#39;t even beholden to getting out of bed at a certain time really don&#39;t have a choice because their body wakes up and doesn&#39;t go back back to sleep um so talk a little bit about a good sleep hygiene or a good sleep routine that that people could develop in order to get into a good pattern of of of sleep a good sleep routine like they would plan their workouts yeah I think we we all underestimate the importance of the routine and so honestly the first thing you want to fix if you want to fix your sleep is just consistency you want to go to bed at the same time and you want to wake up at the same time and the reason is pretty simple you have a biological clock right um and by just training your body to feeling asleep at the same time every day and waking up at the same time every day at certain point it will just become a biological habit right and so for me for example I always struggle to wake up to wake up early my body just wants more more sleep and more sleep but um as I trained myself to wake up at 6:00 a.m. now my body it just wakes up at 6 6:05 610 on its own what time are you going to sleep somewhere between 9:30 and 10:00 a.m. okay in the in that R 10 p.m. okay yeah and 10 p.m. sorry uh 9:30 is my sweet spot I&#39;m there 10 minutes with with my wife and then I start know falling asleep I&#39;m lucky I can fall asleep uh very very fast quick um my sleep is not always perfect in terms of quality and performance and so I try to sleep a little bit more than 8 hours because then the real effective sleep will be around 7 hour and 45 minutes so that&#39;s like a 10 p.m. till 6:30 7:00 a.m. yeah the 9:30 to the 6 right is 8 hours and a half but then the high quality sleep the true sleep it it ends up being somewhere around 7 hour and 45 and if you were to partition out your sleep when do you find that you&#39;re getting the most beneficial sleep so early on you&#39;re getting the Deep Sleep um are you trying to extend the time that you spend in REM sleep so you have more advantages for your brain sometimes yes like the the the the morning of the board meeting if I I I try to not wake up at 6 but to wake up at 7 if I can that extra hour will make me um extra sharp yeah uh just more know agile mentally I will feel more rested um but the other thing is our product by changing your body temperature enhances some of these phases right and so what we see is we can enhance your the the percentage of your deep sleep and we can enhance the percentage of your RAM wow we also reduce toss and turns which is the other big factor uh negatively impacting Your Sleep Quality those are sort of waking states exactly right um and and so talk a little bit about how that occurs um because now we&#39;re we&#39;re we&#39;re bringing technology to to the fitness industry and I really want to talk about that because you have some really exciting Technologies even coming out you even had have some new technologies coming out but um what does temperature have to do and bio regulating your temperature have to do with actually extending deep sleep or or or REM sleep yeah so your body has what is called a circadian rhythm right which is this cycle during during the day and your body temperature already changes during the night so when you hear people say say oh you should sleep at 68° the whole night is not true it might be true for an hour but it&#39;s not going to be true for8 hours and the reason is your body temperature follows more or less what happens with the sun and the night right and so as soon as you follow as asleep your body temperature should drop and 3 4 hours before you wake up the body temperature should start Rising it literally follows the the sun imagine if you were in a cave it gets colder around midnight and then 2 three hours before or Sunrise the the the Sun starts coming out and it gets slightly warmer and then by the time there is the sunrise everything is warmer right and so there is this U curve that your body temperature follows and what our technology does is is just helping your body to do what it&#39;s supposed to to do so when I set set those uh settings because I&#39;ll do like my wife has different settings than I do she says it&#39;s too cold on my side of the bed but so um you know I said it to about a minus 3 now when I set it to minus 3 that&#39;s where it&#39;s starting out right when I get into bed Y and then as I&#39;m as I&#39;m progressing through my night of sleep is it then warming me up um you know the next morning and bringing me out yeah cuz I do notice a considerable difference in my sleep when I used sleep eight in fact I had a 100% sleep score two nights ago nice which was awesome for me I woke up and saw the the the whoop and I was like oh my God I posted it all over Instagram I was so proud of it um like 97% recovery and and 100% sleep score that&#39;s great yeah so um let&#39;s start for a for a second from from what is our product and then I go back to to your answer so it&#39;s it&#39;s a mattress cover that you can install onto any mattress and it will improve your sleep how through Thermo regulation so each side of the bed um will have a different temperature that changes hundreds of times per night to maximize your your sleep um and what&#39;s causing that change is it sensing your yeah so there are sensors in the mattress cover that you don&#39;t see and you don&#39;t feel but they&#39;re able to capture everything about your your your sleep your sleep stages your heart rate your HRV and your respiration and based on this Biometrics we have developed different Algos that that keep changing the temperature to maximize your recovery and uh sleep stages particularly deep sleep and R um this was already proven from a clinical standpoint before ate sleep so again we are not Reinventing the wheels there was plenty of evidence that by changing your body temperature during the night you could get better S I think that&#39;s well St yeah and so what we did is we just created the first consumer product at scale that could just do that for every human being right and so each side of the bed can have a different temperature so if you sleep with a partner and the partner has different preferences different biometric different body mass whatever everything will be personalized and so you go to bed and the bed has obviously a temperature and that could be whatever you like you might like it cold you might like I like it a little cold when I get into bed I actually really like that yeah yeah I&#39;m not surprised we see a lot of our users preferring particularly men they like it really cold uh well instead most of the women they like it slightly warmer um as soon as you fall asleep you want the temperature to drop even more so in deep Sleep you want the coldest possible temperature that you can stand and afford and for everyone is different right our scale goes down to minus 10 um in terms of settings for you you might likeus 10 I might like minus5 yeah- five is yeah but you want something colder because in deep Sleep the colder the better to maximize that that phase wow then when you start getting more RAM which is again is in in the second half of the night you want a slightly warmer temperature and the reason is this that when you are in Ram your uh brain deactivates the temperature control of the body itself and so if it&#39;s too cold the brain will not let you fall into RAM because he fears you could die right and so you want a sort of neutral temperature where your brain thinks okay everything is safe you can get into RAM how does the how does the bed know when to make this transition um it&#39;s it&#39;s it&#39;s monitoring your HRV your your respiratory rate and what have you and how does it know that okay they&#39;re they&#39;re they&#39;re sliding now from Deep Sleep into a rem state so we&#39;re going to go ahead and warm this this up a little bit what what&#39;s going on yeah great question so we we detect a ram and oversimplify the again one of the easiest way to detect the ram is that first you&#39;re not moving right we go back to what you were saying earlier your body is is standing still yeah uh in in bed but your heart rate is accelerated because you are likely dreaming so you are living an experience but your body is now moving so oversimplified this is a proxy so this is how it understands that you&#39;re going into and then obviously there is more information about HR HRV all the different transition between the different slep stages so we have um AI alos that now have been trained with I think we cross millions of hours uh of sleep wow um in certain areas still blows my mind like heart rate and HRV heart rate we are 99% as accurate as a medical grade EKG wow which if you think is pretty impressive that you go to bed as you did for the rest of your life and this device now is as good as a medical grade EKG wow so it&#39;s so this is picking up your heart rate yeah 99% accuracy compared to medical grade AKG uh 96 97% accuracy at HRV and 97% at uh uh detecting your respiratory rate wow and so it&#39;s a combination of the respiratory rate your HRV and and these other metrics movement I was going to say is it also seeing how much you&#39;re moving around and then when things quiet down heart rate slows down um or or heart rate actually increases uh then it starts to help you move into the next phase of sleep correct and and when you capture this um data are you then updating the algorithms is the technology getting smarter when we do updates to you know sleep eight is it progressively using more and more and more data because I I really think I did a talk this past weekend about how just exciting this time frame is in our life because we have the convergence of all of these different um diagnostic tools um with massive amounts of data with artificial intelligence that can make sense of the data and actually give us actionable steps and I think that you know depending on who you talk to some of these futurists will say if you&#39;re alive in 5 years you&#39;re going to live to 500 I think if you&#39;re alive in 5 years you&#39;re going to live to between 120 and 140 um very easily if you were born today uh who knows I mean you could easily reach reach 200 but I think a lot of it has to do with this intersection between artificial intelligence and massive amounts of real human data and and what we can do to put that into actionable steps correct so is it so so talk a little bit about how this algorithm is working is it is it becoming more intelligent is it is it continuing if if if someone was using a sleep eight would it progressively continue to get smarter lack of better words yeah um is a great question and so the answer is yes think of it of of it like um the Tesla autopilot right and we call it our autopilot and so it learns every single night from uh the whole user base and it becomes more sophisticated and more intelligent and I think you said something uh that that is put on about how we use AI to really enhance Human Performance and human longevity because AI at the end of the day everyone is talking about that but it&#39;s just a tool it&#39;s like mobile right mobile apps but they are not a business per they are a tool that can enhance other activities the way we use AI is exactly to enhance your sleep performance which means that then you can have know better performance during the day better health and hopefully uh a longer and healthier life right the way it works usually there is what is called not the AI training a AI um there are different types of training one based on the data and one based on alos self-detecting what the next type of learning could be and so our alos they keep improving based both on the data that we collect in the field plus what they self train themselves for wow and the interesting thing of all this is not just that we give you better sleep but is how we personalize sleep because to get better sleep is not that one situation or one cooling or one temperature fits all right your temperature is different from mine um your temperature is different from the one of your partner right different gender maybe different age different body fat percentage there are all these different factors plus every day is different right let&#39;s say probably I I don&#39;t know if in my case I I I don&#39;t have alcohol but some of my friends they do oh that&#39;s the worst I mean just so we need to self-correct that true temperature at night really so you can actually offset some because usually alcohol has an impact on your heart rate on your HRV on your body temperature and so probably you will need a slightly colder temperature the same if you work out in the night I play paddle I have a Thursday usually on Thursday usually I have a a puddle um tournament okay at 8:00 p.m. by the time I go to bed uh I try to readjust all my temperature settings because I had adrenaline heart rate is accelerate body temperature is accelerated and you just do that on your app you just dial it down and make it colder correct so you and in the in the near future there will be tags so you can just tag alcohol or physical activity physical activity we can also get the data from um from Apple uh because you can connect the Pod to your Apple Health okay and then for women there is pregnancy which completely changes all their settings and their sleep there is their period and there is menopause right and so we see a lot of women buying our product because they are going to menopause they have hot flashes and they can&#39;t sleep anymore and also women that are going through their normal um menstrual cycle or their different phases of the cycle where actually the temperature major hormonal changes and they start having some sort of hot flashes or their body temperature changes so sleep is so Dynamic even within the same person that because of what you ate the time you ate the activity or if your body particularly for women is going through different periods of the month or or your lifetime you will need different setting wow um I didn&#39;t realize it was that sophisticated I mean I do notice that I&#39;m getting better sleep but my and and my wife does too but um you know for menstrating women I mean that is a that is a huge deal I mean we we actually had a big discussion about uh intermittent fasting and and menstrual cycles on females and I had um a renowned physician on the podcast talking about the detriments of of of always treating minrating females exactly the same way meaning like you they have the same feeding window you know every day of the month when their when their cycle changes it can be disastrous for their hormones and you know sleep seems to be no no different so this is intelligently Gathering data and changing the temperature based on where their body temperature might be and what helps them get into deep sleep versus REM sleep and what have you exactly well and there is where you can really Leverage The Power of AI yeah that&#39;s just going to say the same thing this is the really exciting thing about AI I mean millions of people with millions of different Biometrics millions of different genetic makeups body temperature you know um metabolisms metabolic rates what have you you know sleep schedules and all getting their own data to improve the metrics for themselves so so talk a little bit about um good sleep hygiene or good sleep routine other than just you know sleep aid in your in your bed when you go to bed but um what are some of the uh Preparatory things that people can do to like enhance getting a good night sleep I mean I think everyone that I&#39;ve ever spoken to about sleep that that has um you know any any any kind of wherewith all on on sleep is is consistent about how important consist consistency is Right same time going to bed same time waking but what are some other things that they can do red light um screen time you know breath work what are some other things that you find being in the industry are are good sleep routines that people could yep use to hack their sleep hey guys if you&#39;ve been watching the ultimate human podcast for any length of time you know that one thing I do not do is push products I do not just let any Advertiser into the space because I believe that the products that appear on the ultimate human podcast should be things that I use every day in my life to improve my own physiology one of them is something called the echoo plus the echoo plus is a hydrogen water generator that you can take on the go you essentially take the top off of this bottle you pour bottled water in this and repeatedly it will make high part per million hydrogen water you press this little button you&#39;ll see these bubbles going up in the water that&#39;s hydrogen being created in the water there are all kinds of peer-reviewed published clinical stud on the benefits of hydrogen water including reduced inflammation better absorption of your supplements better absorption of your Foods better balance of the stomach acid and it feeds an entire class of bacteria in your gut hydrogen water in my opinion is the most beneficial water that you can drink and now you can take it wherever you go you can go to Echo e h2o.com that&#39;s Echo eoh h2o.com enter the Code Ultimate 10 for a discount Echo H2O enter the code ultimate 10 for a discount breath work is probably the one that I would recommend the most well happy to hear you say that I use it every night yeah all right um that is great uh it works you need to find there are different a lot of different types of breath work um in in in my case what I do I breathe in for 4 second I hold for 4 second I breathe out for 4 second yeah exactly that works really really well for me so that is one um the second um that I use this Thermo regulation even before going to bed and so there is an an extreme version that is if you have a sauna and an ice bath that is absolutely perfect you do a SAA ice bath you do two cycles after that you&#39;re ready to go to bed you will feel SAA for how long uh 20 to 30 minutes then you do your ice bus let&#39;s say 5 minutes it could be any between three and 5 and then you could do another round if you can um and end on cold and and then you can end end on the ice okay and and after that you just go in bed you relax and you will just feel so so relaxed and you will likely fall asleep if you don&#39;t have an ice bath or a coal plunge you can do something similar just with your shower uh you could switch between hot and cold um or a lot of people even particularly women love a a warm bath right so you could just have a a a hot and warm bath that really relaxes you even there it&#39;s something that we do with babies right and and now before going to bed we do their bath then we change them and then we put them uh to bed right so um there is plenty of History so now the the warm bath I mean uh so you&#39;ve warmed the body up but then you&#39;re saying when you get into bed and you&#39;re actually cooling the body down this helps pull you into that deep sleep because after being in a hot bath your body will want to react to cool down the core body temperature and so that is what will help you fall to fall asleep because again to fall asleep your core body temperature needs to drop right and and and what is the drop in core core body temperature I&#39;ve heard two degrees CSI 2 degrees Fahrenheit what is what is the necessary drop I mean because people that don&#39;t have a sleep a um you know I encourage them to sleep in a in a cold room 68 69 degrees uh Fahrenheit and that alone does have positive implications you know positive impact on on their sleep and we&#39;re going to take like I say tens of thousands of people through this uh this sleep challenge next week and we all joined the same group so we&#39;re all all part of the same group and we&#39;re going to actually use these uh sleep hacks one of which is the sleep eight um to to migrate through and and and check our sleep in the morning as a as an entire group so what what&#39;s the importance um and what&#39;s the physiology behind the body temperature drop I mean why is that cooling period so important yeah it&#39;s it it goes back to the to the Circadian cycle and what we were saying of the cave right so this U curve and so as soon as you fall asleep to maximize your sleep performance your core body temperature needs to drop and the amount of degrees is different for everyone in particular now based on gender based on Age based on what you ate but directionally you want to have this this drop that is why before ate sleep what was recommended was just to sleep in a cold bedroom because that is the easiest proxy to try to kind of help your body to achieve that obviously now with technology we can be way more uh specific and we can specifically adjust your body in very different uh ways but I don&#39;t know if you have this problem with with your wife but a lot of couples they fight around temperature and we definitely do yeah and the reason is she&#39;s very thin and and likes it warm and I&#39;m the defin for your body is very different from the definition of cold for your wife right um and um and that is why the 68 degree in a bedroom doesn&#39;t work for for everyone and maybe then at certain point your if your wife is going through menopause 68 degree will not even be enough any more for her and now she want 65 and for you becomes too C right or she wants 60 whatever right sure um but the 60 would be nice and D that&#39;s that&#39;s down but the first principle is the same right so the body needs to drop right uh the body temperature the core body temperature needs to drop and so you can prepare your body to do that in a couple of different ways with technology with a colder room or with a bathtub um that is one way when you say the bathtub because the bathtub Heats you up first you taking talking about a warm bath and it&#39;s actually this drop in temperature which helps ease you into that that deeper rym or that deeper sleep that you&#39;re that you&#39;re after yeah another thing that sometimes for some people like me um uh I my my extremities are always cold right like the feet and the hands and if your feet and hands are cold you don&#39;t fall asleep right and so a hot a bathtub or a warm shower could help people like me or a lot of women have this kind of problem to make sure that your ex are warm so then you can fall asleep right um so and my my wife and I both have that um same situation so for for people that are um you know looking to take advantage without W you know with a sleep a to to maximize their um uh their sleep what about the you know waking up at night for frequent urination what about the people that um have a hard time going to sleep because their mind is awake um you know one of the things that we talk about is the is the mental aspect of fitness and of sleep Fitness and you&#39;re talking a lot about the physical aspect of of of sleep Fitness what what things outside of of of sleep a supplements um you know ways to to to stop or or reduce you know frequent urination at night and when I when I was going to have you on the podcast my my members sent me a bunch of questions that they wanted me to ask you and one was about frequent urination at night you might not have any um data on that but I figure since you guys are tracking millions of hours of sleep um do you have any tips or tricks for you know reducing frequent urination at night or you know um waking up and having a really difficult time getting back to sleep um sure so one of the thing we see the most is obviously your mind uh keeps racing right a lot of our users have have have that problem yeah um and so that is where breath work can can help and more than anything I would say 30 to 60 minutes before going to bed you I always call it getting in the zone because I&#39;m an athlete right you need to get into the zone to prepare the for Sleep Fitness right because if you if you just keep working you just keep emailing with whoever and you&#39;re there fighting or working on a on on a big deal for your company right the know between the adrenaline and accelerated heart rate your brain just know keep thinking about how how do I win and now your body tired and your and your mind awake exactly which a lot of people suffer from and so the approach I always have for example is I&#39;m not against you using the phone or the screen I just say pay attention to what you&#39;re are doing with your phone if you&#39;re chatting with your best friend about the memory of when you were a child and you had a great time that is still completely fine right because it putting you in the in in a in a relaxing mode and you will fall asleep if you are there fighting with your boss about the budget for the next year that will not help right God forbid looking at the news which is all just Doom and Gloom exactly so it&#39;s less about the screen per se is more about what you&#39;re doing with with your phone and the other big thing is all my lights for example switch automatically to Orange around 800 p.m. so you want to start developing and how do you do that you you with Philip okay I use Philips zo and so you can have an automatic setting where they switch to Orange and the reason is you want to you don&#39;t want to be exposed to Blue Light you want to be exposed to orange light they will help you develop melatonin um I almost never use melatonin unless I&#39;m traveling or for jet lag because it creates some dependency right right and uh I test I&#39;m testing we are testing at scale a a large amount of supplements right now to really help people to ease their mind to relax to go asleep to go to bed and then maximize their their deep and R and and what uh you know what are those supplements look like they&#39;re metabolites are they magnesium theine you don&#39;t like melatonin Gaba um you know what what kinds of compounds are you testing for you know improved sleep yeah what we have noticed is is is never just one you just want to stay away from melatonin you don&#39;t want to take melatonin every single day because otherwise you you just screws uh all the settings of the Melatonin level in in your body but everything else is fine the key is to find the right balance between filling it within 30 to 60 minutes so you can go and fall asleep getting high quality of sleep and making sure you wake up without feeling groggy right and so we are testing from magnesium to Gaba to glycine ashvagandha is another one with stress that seems working really well but the point is there are a lot of supplement company out there but not all of them they have the amount of data that we have right right now we collect I don&#39;t know 20 terabytes of Health Data per day wow and so this is coming through the app so you&#39;re you&#39;re you&#39;re millions of sleep hours correct right yeah and obviously everything is aggregated anonymized so it&#39;s not about any single user right but it&#39;s it&#39;s just this large library of anonymized and aggregated data that tell us what what&#39;s working and what is not working at scale because one of the things I don&#39;t like in medicine right now is know they publish a new study and this study was run for seven days on 15 people right right we have hundreds of thousands of people sleeping on our product every every single night and so we have a beta group and we involve some of our users and we&#39;re talking about thousands of them and in a week we can have 7 to 14,000 nights of sleep for every test that we want to run wow and so here is how I really think that medicine and clinical studies will really change and we will stop looking at studies of 50 people sleeping in a Sleep Clinic which is a foreign environment for 3 four five days which is not statistically relevant and we will start having data from hundred of thousands of people sleeping in their home in their usual head for maybe a month well right and giving you feedback in real time giv you feedback right because you can you can actually input things into the the uh you can input things into the uh app that that that says oh I had alcohol or I had corre uh didn&#39;t have alcohol and that is the one thing that I would say consistently destroy sleep um more than anything with no exceptions correct it is unbelievable and and it&#39;s it&#39;s astounding to me the uh the the small amount that it takes to have you know severe sleep disruption CU I think so many people are you know the glass of wine to go to bed at night kind of person and I my wife love of wine at night and sometimes Europeans some of my friends when I go back to Italy they still have also a coffee after dinner and I coffee and me yeah they&#39;ll have double espresso yeah yeah yeah I I see it all the time I mean I think that&#39;s a big European thing but you you know the even even a single glass of wine you know 20% easily at 20 % negative impact on your heart rate so it accelerates your heart and heart rate variability drops at 20% yeah heart rate variability down which is essentially a measure of your Readiness um and then your heart rate uh which is a measure of the state of your nervous system also also increases so they actually go in opposite directions and then your recovery your strain your your sleep score you know all all of those T tend to drop I mean I&#39;ve given it up uh entirely and so so is my wife and I just sleep so much better now but every once in a great great while we were at a birthday party the other night and um for a very you know close friend and he passed around um you know thing thing of tequila and I was like well you know I haven&#39;t had drink in weeks I was like I&#39;m not going to be that guy so we toasted I had I don&#39;t know how many ounces it was and um and that night my sleep was actually destroyed so was my wife which is how I knew it wasn&#39;t an anomaly so uh yeah that&#39;s that&#39;s a great sleep hack right there just get rid of the alcohol and if you really need to have or you want to have alcohol limit it and let some time go by between when you had the last drink and when you go to sleep right uh so if I don&#39;t know if you can have a couple of hours in between it will help that time helps um yeah and and um what about eating Windows as you approximate sleep yeah some people say two hours some people say 3 hours some people say it doesn&#39;t matter I totally take uh is with that but but um I have had people say it doesn&#39;t matter even if you eat and then crawl right in bed I think that actually destroys your sleep um but what&#39;s it what&#39;s the optimal time frame between your last meal and going to bed and and what kind of fluid intake should people be thinking about as they approximate you know bedtime yeah especially for men I think they a lot of my followers have issues with you know getting up at night repeatedly to go to the restroom sometimes they&#39;re like Gary I don&#39;t get it I mean it&#39;s not it&#39;s not like I&#39;m getting up and it&#39;s like a fire I&#39;m just getting up and you know couple Squirts and I go back to bed and a few hours later I&#39;m waking up and the same thing is happening yeah so usually I would recommend at least two hours uh to stop eating two hours before going to bed even this is very personal there are probably some people that can eat 30 minutes before and they&#39;re not going to be heavily impacted but I would say the rule of time for 90% of people yeah is at least 2 hours 2 24 is perfect what I have seen in my case for example is if I have carbs so usually I&#39;m on a diet I cheat only one day a week on Friday night with my wife we make pizza okay wow you really you go off the deepend there yeah that&#39;s awesome so you&#39;re keto all the time and then just break it once a week yeah um um but what I have seen if I have carbs usually I tend to fall uh to feel sleepy which is which is good but then my Sleep Quality will definitely will suffer uh particularly I will toss and turn more the the sleep stages will not be will not be optimal and so it&#39;s not just when you stop eating but is also what you eat if you have a very heavy meal it could probably be also be uh a lot of meat red meat um that will have an things that are hard to digest take longer to digest use more blood correct divert more blood from the brain to the gut you know it&#39;s an interesting um I was at a biohacking conference uh about two years ago and they they put participants in front of a thermograph and they they were measuring very sensitively the the Heat and and its dispersion through the body which is kind of an indication of where the blood is also and wherever the blood is the oxygen is and prior to our lunchtime meal the you know the the participants that stood in front of this thermograph their head was glowing you know bright red orange showing that there was a lot of concentration of blood in the head and then they ate varying levels of um glycemic meals um some ate very very low glycemic meals like eggs avocado and others ate pasta white bread white rice white flour um and uh I think they gave an asai bowl and you could see the the the higher the carbohydrate level the more heat went to the gut and the more oxygen went to the gut and and these people were significantly um less focused you know less sharp and they had less energy um they would just crash after these meals because of all that blood that gets diverted there so um you know I think that you know certainly not eating within two hours of bedtime two or three hours before bedtime is a major sleep hack because you&#39;re freeing up all that blood all that oxygen to go to other places you know in the body where you want it to be for repair and Rejuvenation especially into the brain um talk a little bit about the um there&#39;s a stage in sleep where the brain begins to eliminate waste through the lymphatic system right which is we have a lymphatic system which is throughout our body a static system then we have one in the brain called a glymphatic system do you have any data on you know when the brain gets the major you know the the the most benefit from sleep in terms of eliminating its waste cleaning itself repairing detoxifying regenerating you say that this is during the the REM sleep um but what&#39;s happening there and what what if anything can we do to enhance that yeah this is another great question definitely the most important phase for for your brain is is the ram right there is where okay you collected a certain amount of information your brain collected a certain amount of information during the day that is the moment where there is the clean up phas right okay what do you want to retain what do you want to throw away um and that is also why if you think know sometimes people wake up and they finally have a solution to a problem they have been working on for for months yeah my wife is majorly like that so is my chief of staff or sometimes people like like me I have a lot of ideas while I&#39;m showering in the morning and again that is the result of of your sleep so your brain while you wear in Ram is still working on solving some of your problems or readjusting it reconnecting the dots of some of the problems you&#39;re working on mhm and so the there is no magic formula to really improve your RS there are all these different tactics that we discussed so try to to sleep a certain amount of hours because the second part of the night is when you get more RAM try to use and have the proper temperature around you you can play with some supplements um I play with supplements a lot there are certain supplements we don&#39;t have the results yet but there are certain supplements that give me very positive um dreams for example and others that give me very active but and too intense dreams right right right when I take a lot of melatonin I have very I get nightmares actually um and I know a lot of people that say the same thing which is why I don&#39;t I I&#39;ll I&#39;ll occasionally take a very small amount of melatonin 1 to 3 milligrams never more than 3 milligrams usually when I&#39;m traveling yeah uh like you said most of us have a very difficult time meeting our protein needs and certain protein sources like way protein and others can be as little as 20% absorbable this is 99% absorbable and it has all of the essential amino acids that the body needs to build lean muscle to recover to improve our exercise performance and most importantly to repair after we have intense exercise so this is called perfect Amino by Body Health it&#39;s like I said 99% absorbable it only has two calories eventually the caloric intake has virtually no caloric intake it will not breaking fast it tastes amazing you mix it in water I take this literally every single morning if you&#39;re working out in a fasted State you have to take a full spectrum amino acid prior to your workout to preserve your lean muscle and make sure that you&#39;re recovering properly and again it will not break your fast so the caloric impact is virtually zero you get all of the full spectrum amino acids it tastes wonderful I use it every single day you can go to bodyhealth.com ultimate that&#39;s bodyhealth.com ultimate and look for the perfect aminos they actually come in capsules if you&#39;re on the go or it becomes in several flavors that they make in a powder which I love it&#39;s flavored with natural um uh means of flavoring so there&#39;s no artificial sweeteners in here so this is one of my absolute favorite products give it a try if you&#39;re working out at all you need a full spectrum amino acid go to bodyhealth.com timate that&#39;s bodyhealth ultimate I love their lab tested products you can actually see the absorption rate for all of their products they&#39;ve got great electrolyte protein combinations my favorite is the perfect aminos bodyhealth.com timate and now back to the ultimate human podcast but I&#39;ve I&#39;ve taken high do melatonin before one of my friends convinced me to do it because he said you&#39;ll get the best night sleep ever it was absolutely the most horrifying night of sleep I&#39;d ever had and I had very very Vivid very dark um scary you know dreams that felt very real and it was one of the worst nights of sleep that I but I had so what what are some of the things that uh that you do when you travel um when you&#39;re on the road um clearly you&#39;re not you know bringing all the equipment with you so how are you hacking your sleep on the road what what are your tricks for yeah so when I go to the West Coast and if I usually let&#39;s say I go for 3 days I try to stay on the East Coast time time on MH so I wake up really early and I go I kind of like that out there I do the same thing I like it cuz you&#39;re you you get like three extra hours in the morning nobody&#39;s bothering you you&#39;re working out at 4:00 a.m. you feel amazing exactly yeah you know I I love it my son and I talk about it all the time we love going you know from from Miami to La cuz 7:30 we&#39;re smoked exactly and we just go to bed at the hotel and then get up at 4:00 in the morning you got half your day done I I love that too so I try to stay on that time zone so once back I&#39;m um I&#39;m ready to go with my consistency if is a long flight if I&#39;m going to Europe I try to use melatonin to readjust I like for example when I go to Europe to fly in the night I go to the hotel and I immediately go to the gym and so and I try to night no I land in the morning so I I leave the US let&#39;s say I leave Miami usually the flights at 8: or 10:00 p.m. and you land around 6:00 to 8:00 a.m. it depends where you&#39;re going I try to immediately get sunlight I try to immediately have some breakfast even if usually I don&#39;t have breakfast but I want to reactivate my body and then I try to go to the gym perfect and then I stay up until uh the night it will it will be hard somewhere around 12:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m. I I really feel sleepy M uh but if you can cross that window then you will feel good and then I take some melatonin in the night and I try to go to sleep and when you say some melatonin how many milligrams are you normally yeah one to two one to two yeah that&#39;s one to three about what I&#39;m doing um W said again West Coast I just stay on my routine I try to set the right temperature of the of the of of the bedroom I try to do a a bath or a or a shower before going to bed so I I try to replicate the same habits yeah and sometimes I do some breath work if I feel I cannot yeah the Box breathing really I mean that&#39;s that&#39;s another one of those hacks that&#39;s worked very very well for myself and my audience you know the 4 second inhale 4 second hold 4 second exhale 4 second hold that seems to work incredibly well for lots of people and it&#39;s free I mean you there&#39;s no downside to to to trying that I find that if I tried to do six or eight Cycles I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever make made it to eight Cycles yeah you know as I as I sort of get to that I get actually tired of doing it and I&#39;m and I go right down into sleep I mean blows my my wife&#39;s mind so uh talk to me a little bit about what the future of of sleep eight holds I know you&#39;ve got some technologies that you&#39;re working on that you&#39;re releasing some you&#39;re you&#39;re willing to talk about some not yet um but what is the future of of sleep a because you know what&#39;s exciting to me is this convergence again of AI and and and data and massive amounts of data and the fact that you can actually make adjustments in real time and feed it back to these people that are trying trying to get a better night&#39;s sleep so where is technology going for for your company yeah in a few years your bed will become the most advanced preventative health platform in the world and I&#39;ll tell you how but I also tell you why the reason is the form factor we have a lot of space right our product is is at the price point where adding um certain sensors for $5 is not going to change anything right well instead for wearables they need they have battery problems they have space problem and because of the price at which they sell five bucks in the cost of the device makes a difference for for their margins right the other big thing we have is once you install our product you don&#39;t remove it it&#39;s not like a wearable wearable they have a lot of drops after 6 months people stop using it because they forget to charge it or to they forget to bring the charger with them right our product once you install it it stays with you for the next three four five six seven eight hopefully 10 years right and even if you don&#39;t open the app it still means we have the the data of what is happening in your body and so we can come back to you with valuable information but in 2017 I wrote a memo which is what then drove to um for us to raise the first large amount of money from K Ventures and the vision is what I call hyperpod hyperpod is a canopy bed right where uh there are blackout curtains and we control air temp temperature air quality and oxygen level while you&#39;re asleep and because there is a ceiling we work on certain technology for full body scanning so even when you were talking about Thermo regulation earlier in in in our chat that is something we are already working on wow so we want to scan your body every single night to detect early signs of certain diseases they might be developing in your body wow the other big thing is because we have this longitudinal data right some of our customers now they have been with us for four years so maybe you don&#39;t have a certain cardiovascular problem today but we soon we will have soon enough data to know that just based on the trajectory of your heart rate HRV and other Biometrics you might develop AR rmia five years later right the real power of AI and machine learning right now is will be the prediction not even the detection right detection will already be 100 times 100 times better because we can scan you every night right but the real true value to reach the 500 years uh of life will be to be able to predict five 10 years in advance what might happen with 80% chances and intervene now and intervene now because maybe you can start taking drugs for diabetes now instead and when you discover you already have the diabetes right and obviously for cancer you know things like pancreas IC cancer if you discover it very early you have 90% chances to survive if you discover it late you have 90% chances to die right and with thermal imaging maybe you don&#39;t know if you have a pancreatic cancer but what you could see is that the temperature around the pancreas is two degrees higher than what has always been your Baseline and so maybe at the beginning we will not know what the disease is or what the problem is but we will be able to tell you go to your doctor we don&#39;t expect to replace the doctor but go to the doctor and check this specific thing because we are seeing a thermal difference compared to your Baseline wow that is fantastic and and how soon on the horizon are some of these changes coming for you guys it&#39;s purely a matter of priorities meaning we could have these in six months right if we wanted the technolog is already exist so I&#39;m not talking about building reusable Rockets like Elon 15 years ago right right all the pieces of the puzzle already exist it&#39;s just a matter of sleep do we want to focus on this now or we release the next version of the current product and how much money we want to deploy in R&amp;D in one year versus over three years right uh but I already sleep in an hyper pod oh you do this is already available yeah I mean it&#39;s not available for normal people but for the SE of the company um for for the SE of the company yes and so I&#39;m already sleeping in a canopy bed it doesn&#39;t have all the features yet but it has a uh many any of these features have you found any positive impacts even beyond the regular sleep a of H of being in this pod yeah uh first of all I mean even just the blackout cents they&#39;re very basic but sleeping in a completely dark environment makes a mass a massive difference yes I have tested um altitude t for quite a while and I saw major benefits in my HRV and HR uh most of these of becoming hypoxic and then correct hyperoxic okay exactly I I we actually believe that exactly the shifting between hypo oxid and hyperoxy multiple times during the night is what will give you the biggest Advantage but we need to run more clinical tests um sleeping in Mountain Air I call it so in a very purified um air the whole night for eight hours it should have a major benefit and then on thermal imaging we can already see a major inflammation so imagine even for athletes right you work with a lot of athletes if you&#39;re LeBron James and we start seeing you&#39;re developing an inflammation in your elbow U we&#39;re going to see it with high accuracy because these thermal cameras already exist wow that is absolutely fascinating well um tell this has been unbelievable um and I think my audience is going to get a lot of benefit out of this you know I I end every podcast this the same way I ask every every podcast guest if you watch my podcast you already know this question is coming um but I asked you know there&#39;s no right or wrong answer uh to this question I ask um you know what what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human it&#39;s a matter of Health spun and lifespan right lifespan we all know is okay how many years you will leave uh but the health span is okay let&#39;s say it&#39;s 100 Years hopefully or 100 years plus as were saying how many of those years know I will be active I will be able to play with my uh grandkids and I can keep playing POS with with my friends I had a grandma she died that I think she was 92 93 but probably the last 10 years of her life she was really sitting on on her chair right and it was still beautiful to have her because I loved her and and she loved me but she couldn&#39;t really live her life in way I I I would want her to have live it and so that for me means being a having a super human life wow that is amazing man guys uh definitely check out the sleep a I&#39;m going to put links in um in the show notes below how can they find out more about you how find out more about eight sleep um where do they go to get more information on your product or your technology yeah go on um eight sleep.com eight spell out like the number um e g HT sleep.com so there you can see and find all our Technologies there is also something really cool coming out soon so stay tuned and for me you can find me on Twitter with my name and last name I&#39;m pretty active there so you can ping me and ask me anything on Twitter and I will reply that sounds amazing and as always that&#39;s just science

Transcript for:Ultimate Human Podcast: Transforming Sleep with Technology

Transcript for:
Ultimate Human Podcast: Transforming Sleep with Technology