I knew I always wanted to be closer with you and if I think back to before working together our relationship it was not horrible but I don't think it was great there was something underneath the surface that made it not so great and what was that for you you were never home when you came home all you did was talk about work M it was like all I wanted was your attention and I felt like it was going everywhere but me really yeah it definitely was and I'm sorry I was consumed with work because I was so scared about the amount of debt we were in me showing up in a way that makes you feel seen me showing up in a way that makes you feel like you're a priority me showing up in a way where I'm actually emotionally calm and I'm not tantruming or taking my stress out on all of you that was something I didn't do and so I did not provide you with what you needed I I fully own that the relationship is a lot like a tug-of-war you each pick up the Rope you hook it to the U-Haul and now you're pulling each other with all the baggage in the weight the fastest way to win the tug of- war is to actually just drop the Rope don't play let them let them tug don't tug back every sing single time that I was mad at you I was tugging whenever we used to argue in the past it would be both of us tug of- boring M I think what ended up happening is I would start to tug and you would drop the rope and I would fall down and I think that what is so beautiful about the let them theory is you actually can't play the game of tug of war when one person isn't playing it takes two let them hey it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast it is always such an honor to spend time and be together with you I am so excited that you hit play today that you're here for this conversation this one is going to be amazing and the reason why is I'm sitting down with my oldest daughter her name is Sawyer she's 25 years old and we have just spent the last year writing the let them Theory Book together and the process of not only learning about the let them Theory and writing this book together it has healed our relationship and this is going to be one of those conversations that I know is going to be deeply personal you're going to see yourself in everything that we're talking about and you're going to leave not only with a deeper understanding of the let them Theory which is this mindset tool that I discovered I don't know about 2 years ago that really helps you understand what's in your control and what's not in your control and it helps you to focus on what you are in control of which is what you think say or do and to just let other people be let them live their lives let them have their opinions and really focus on your response and a funny thing happens when you start to implement the let them theory in your life when you start to say let them and you let people be themselves you create space for Change and transformation like it's kind of crazy the more you stop trying to control everybody else the more control you gain the more you let other people be themselves the better your relationships become and what I'm going to do today with you is I'm inviting you to sit down with me and my daughter and we're going to unpack our motherdaughter relationship and I promise you you're going to see yourself you're going to see yourself with your siblings you may see yourself with your parents you may see yourself with your adult kids you will definitely see yourself with your significant other whether you're married or dating or whatever because the ultimate topic that we're talking about truly is that in most relationships there's this invisible distance between you and another person it's sort of this space that gets created over time with the people that you've known the longest or the people that you love the most or the people that you're related to and it's this distance that gets created it's like death by a Thousand Cuts the small things that you try to let go the passive aggressive comments the things that you feel kind of resentful or upset about that maybe happened in the past that you've never quite gotten over it's not even that the relationship's horrible you know maybe it's that you really wish you were closer to your siblings but there's just something there that you can't explain that makes it feel impossible to just feel closer or maybe you wish there was just less drama and friction with your adult kids or with your parents or with their significant other that there are times where it's fun you really think things are okay but you just can't quite get closer and have it be better all the time and so in the process of working on the let them Theory Book over the last year and using the let them Theory my daughter and I truly deeply authentically for real erased the distance and really became close in a way that we both really wanted to but never knew how and so I invite you to pull up a seat and to join me and my daughter Sawyer and before we jump in I just want to take a moment too and welcome you if you're brand new because if you're listening to this episode as the first episode that you're listening to of the Mel Robins podcast it tells me something about you first of all either somebody that really loves you and wants to E th be closer to you or wants you to be closer to people in your life sent this to you which means you have people around you that deeply care about you and they wanted you to listen to this because they know that this conversation is going to help you improve your life and your relationships and it will the second thing it tells me is that you actually care about your relationships because you saw this episode and you hit play and so my daughter and I are sitting down and we are going to unpack the lessons that we've learned the hard way so hopefully we can save you the headache and heartache and upset and distance that we created in our relationship as mom and daughter and you can learn from our mistakes and you can learn from the things that we learned this year as we used the let them Theory and as we wrote about it and researched it and there's one thing I know for sure you will never look at relationships the same again after joining me and my daughter sorer and with that I just said your name very weird Sawyer I don't know why I said it weird like that um Sawyer welcome to the Mel Robins podcast thanks for sitting down with me thanks Mom and so I guess where we should start H is we're going to tell you a little bit about our relationship prior to the past year where we've had this experience of working together on this project of writing and then releasing the let them Theory Book and it all happened by accident none of this happened on purpose and that's another really important thing that at any moment you can change the way your relationship feels and as Sawyer and I are sharing with you our experiences and what our relationship used to feel like I'm just going to ask you to be thinking about the people in your life whether it's a sister or a brother or it's an in-law or it's a colleague at work or it's a friend that I don't know it's like the way that I would describe our relationship and then I'm going to just throw it over to you almost like a professional roasting Sawyer um is that I desperately wanted to be closer to you but I didn't know how to be your turn that's it okay good set up I think I always wanted to be I knew I always wanted to be closer with you and I think if I think back to before working together our relationship it wasn't horrible I do have to preface it was not horrible but I don't think it was great I want to dig in here because I would put our relationship s you're 25 mhm you're the oldest of three I'm 56 compared to a lot of people's relationships our relationship is great we talk a lot we respond to each other's texts we love seeing each other but there was something underneath the surface that made it not so great and what was that for you and please like just let me have it don't worry about my feelings just the more you can explain your experience as the daughter I think the more powerful this conversation is going to be for the person that is here with us right now everything that I'm about to say I think was very unintentional on your part but I think after a lot of therapy and just reflecting on myself and I think especially working with you I've recognized this since but before growing up I always thought it was intentional and so I think a huge thing is the fact that you were never home and you were always on the road and then when you came home all you did was talk about work and I think that from my perspective as your kid all I wanted you to do when you came home was like come to my games and prioritize me and give me attention and it just felt like it wasn't there unless we were asking you about your work and I think on a separate note my sister Kendall she is younger than me by 18 months she is a phenomenal singer and she is pursuing a career out in LA and she grew up as a performer and she grew up in the spotlight and I think she is on the same track as you in being in the spotlight and being out in the world and people recognizing you um which is unbelievable but I think I saw the both of you always relating on that and feeling very jealous that I didn't have a natural talent that I could deliver um that would connect me to the two of you so I always saw you guys as on the other side of the room and her getting all the praise for all the singing and what she deserves and is amazing but at the same time I was just like oh I can't relate to my mom or my sister like I'm Different I don't have a natural ability every time I'm addressed it's oh you're Kendall sister oh are you the singer um or are you Mel robbins's daughter that's awesome it's never like oh you're Sawyer it's so nice to meet you and so it was always I was a product of you or Kendall and I think that that really made me I think just resent you honestly and so instead of being really celebratory of your work and how much you worked and just you as a person I think I saw it as all these fans all these people out there who love my mom are taking my mom away from me and so therefore I'm not annoyed at all them I'm annoyed at her if you go back in time though and if you could explain even how this Dynamic was in place before the level of kind of recognition that this podcast has brought because it's a whole in my experience it's a whole different ball game in the past two years than it was when we lived in Sherburn and so could you share a little bit about your experience even in middle school and high school in high school and in Middle School you were on the road upwards of 200 days in the year and I think as you were gone I always I felt myself growing closer to Dad and growing closer to Kendall and Oakley cuz we were always together and then when you would come home it felt like I I think it was a story I was telling myself but it felt in my eyes like you either were talking about work or you were talking about Kendall and how are we going to grow Kendall singing career and how are we going to do this and all the plays and all this stuff which is unbelievable but I think that that was really my impression is she's a workaholic which she still is um but I have more of appreciation for it now um and the fact that I just had this story in my head that it was like all I wanted was your attention and I felt like it was going everywhere but me I think it was it definitely was and I'm sorry that's okay it's not okay I forgive you well um I think every working parent especially those of us that have a job that requires travel kind of has that like in your heart because there times in your life where just out of necessity you got to be on the road because that's what your job demands and I guess I was lucky enough that dad was home full-time but I do agree with you that I was consumed with work because I was so scared about the amount of debt we were in and just the Relentless pressure I felt for almost decade to be able to um replace all the money that we had lost in the business and to get out of credit card debt and to be able to pay for college and do some of the things that I wanted to do and you're right like too many people I spent too many years working and chasing the next thing because of the debt we were in and I missed out on a lot and so I can see why your experience was that I was always gone and when I was home I was talking about work or I was getting ready to leave on the next trip or you know Kendall who is definitely way more emotional than you are at least outwardly was getting a lot of the attention and I think this happens a lot with the oldest kid that you kind of assume the role of responsibility and you became very stoic and as much as I was trying to reach you I didn't worry about you as much because you didn't emote as much and that's not your problem as the parent it's my responsibility to know who you are and to find ways to really reach you but I didn't know how it almost felt like especially in high school that you were pissed off at me and that you had crossed your arms and you were standing off on the side and that you were like you're not going to get to me you don't get access to me is that true I think looking back I I pouted a little bit for sure um but it was I think definitely a little emotionally immature um acting like an 8-year-old but she'll learn in the let them Theory Book I think another thing with families that happens a lot is I naturally am a lot more similar to Dad and Kendall is a lot more similar to you and I think Oakley is like a beautiful combination of you both it's not like something horrible happened no not at all this I think most relationships have this like invisible distance and you can feel it and you can't quite understand why it's there and if it's with somebody that you deeply love and that you have cared about for a long time that distance and that sort of resentment that starts to build up is death by a Thousand Cuts that's what it is it's over and over and over again somebody feeling like they don't matter to you and you know honestly when you're the parent Sawyer it's your responsibility to make sure that your children know that you matter to them it's not your responsibility as the child to make me know that I matter to you it's my responsibility as the parent to provide that to you just like it's my responsibility to provide you with food and water and shelter me showing up in a way that makes you feel seen me showing up in a way that makes you feel like you're a priority me showing up in a way where I'm actually a emotionally calm and I'm not tantruming or taking my stress out on all of you that was something I didn't do and so I did not provide you with what you needed I I fully own that I appreciate you saying that love you and um I also want to say though that I think there was a lot of times in our relationship where you really did try like you actively were constantly trying to break the barrier between our relationship what were some of the things that I tried to do cuz I know what I tried to do well first of all you tried to let's go to the mall Sawyer and let's buy you a few things so you don't don't dislike me yes which I think for those of you whose love language is gifting I think it worked in the moment and then the next day something would happen that would reconfirm this story I was telling myself that she doesn't care about me and then it was back to this force field between us and that that's what I was going to say is that I think there there was things that happened over time that raised the force field and then everything after that just reconfirmed it and made me feel like I was always already listening for that message versus I completely shut out out the you matter here's your gifts here's that the other like I'm showing up to your game I already had decided in my mind that this is the story I'm going to tell myself which is my mom doesn't care about me and I am going to go pout in the corner so she comes closer and closer to me versus trying to approach you in another way and I think what didn't help that is that outside of the house and outside of our family every single second it was getting reconfirmed by strangers and by my friends which is oh you're Kendall sister oh my God Kendall's blah blah blah blah blah oh my gosh you're Mel robbins's daughter I love her so much like can you give me your number so I can get to her like give me your email so I can get to her it was always like how can I use Sawyer to get to Kendall or Mom and so I think that that it was in the house I was telling myself this but also outside it was kind of like other people were reconfirming that for me and so it made the force field like indestructible I think that that's a very common experience even when someone in your family doesn't have a public facing career like if you're the person in your family that's the middle child in a big family or you're the youngest in a big family you feel invisible and you show up at school and you're Joey's little brother or oh here we go we've got another you know one of the Mitchell or you know here comes another Jones through the school that you start to feel invisible in the kind of reputation of the family or what your siblings did ahead of you so I think that that's a very common thing so would you say that once you decided my mom doesn't care about me it was going to be very difficult for me to somehow shatter that force field that you put up yes why do you say that I think it wouldn't be until I showed up differently that our relationship would get better really yeah I'd like to know I had more power here I I well I appreciate you saying that because it takes time to shift the dynamic and if somebody is committed to making you the villain in their story or if they're committed to being the victim every time they tell The Narrative of their family it's pretty hard for people to let go of victimhood it's pretty hard for people to change the identity that they got screwed over or that their family everybody's crazy or nobody cares about them or I make the effort but nobody else does and when you get on that storyline it's a very powerful thing to tell yourself because you feel right totally and anger and resentment it can become the substitute for the love that you actually crave and the second that you say well I was wrong about them or you attempt to step out of the story where you're the victim and you step into someone else's shoes and try to understand what it might have been like for them just to see a different perspective nothing's going to change but in the conversation today I actually do think people can change and I do think if you're willing to examine your own storyline and ask yourself well I realize that this has been the story I realize that it's been for a long time that my sister doesn't care about me or that my in-laws are selfish or that I'm invisible in my family and nobody cares if that's the story and it's been this way for a very long time nothing is going to change unless you ask yourself the question what do I actually want is this how I want it to be and if you don't want it to continue to be this way the one person that can change it is you and I want to be very clear your experience as a child is exactly aligned with the mother that you had I was not available I was desperately trying to save our family from Financial ruin and I was in panic mode all the time and I didn't know how to build a business I didn't know how to do what I was doing and so I was constantly feeling behind and I could not do what I was doing and also be an awesome mom at the same time and so I own that and I also though thank you and I appreciate that you can from where you are now and looking back at the dynamic see what was on my side in terms of the responsibility and also be mature enough to say I can see that I crossed my arms back in elementary school and was like well she likes Kendall more and I'm more like Dad so I'm just going to go over here in the corner and be silent and hold it all in and see if she notices me I think you were trying to reach out your hand towards the end and I think I still was in that cross my arms I'm mad at you and I like to be mad at you because then you give me more attention phase oh can we just stop right there because I think that's something people can really relate to that if I'm mad at you I'm naturally going to want to make it up to you and I have this Dynamic with people in my life where I feel I'm constantly in trouble and they're keeping score and that when they're annoyed with me and I can hear it in their tone of voice that I now have to somehow smooth this over and I definitely felt that Dynamic with you and I love that you can admit that you liked being mad at me yeah it was great what was great about it no seriously what was great about it I felt like when I was mad at you then you actually gave me the time of day and it wasn't until I was in tears or I needed help or I needed some advice AKA your career that you actually genuinely were paying attention to me without your phone in your hand without think about other things it was almost like if I was in trouble or I was mad at you or I was in a emergency situation that is when I would get your full attention and that is the only time I would get your full attention and so I felt like I was training you unconsciously like I had no idea that I was doing this but that I was training you to come closer to me whenever I was mad at you wow you did because my my experience of being your mother is that especially once you got to high school you were like done with me I don't need you I don't want you I want your credit card I want the keys to your car and I want you to shut up and just not bother me and so I started to comply and I wanted something different but I just didn't know how to do anything different or reach you without you being so annoyed or angry with me all the time it's true it was all because I I looked up to you and wanted to be you and I think that that was like the same thing with Kendall too it was like I just wanted to be her and I didn't know how to communicate that H and so instead of being like I'm so proud of you I want to learn from you I want to go in the same direction or I don't know what I want to do but I think what you're doing is so cool instead I was just like I can never do that and so therefore I'm going to punish them I this is such a relatable experience I am so grateful that we're having this conversation soy and I'm grateful that you're together with us because I know that this conversation is going to improve your relationships and you're going to feel so much better if you truly take to heart everything that we're sharing and I cannot wait to see who you share this conversation with and so let's fast forward to the part of the story where you go through college and you're out working for this massive cyber security firm you're in your early 20s you're like getting promoted you have all this stuff you're saving money and you decide that you're going to take this trip and backpack solo around Asia something you've wanted to do since you were a little girl you go realize this dream and then what happens so I quit my job and I go to Asia for 4 months and backpack solo um to seven different countries and it was so amazing I was on such a high I came back from my trip I immediately wanted to go back but I had no money and it was the middle of winter up in Vermont I have moved back home living with my parents at 25 this was a year ago almost to the day a year ago almost to the day and I what were you thinking about the fact that you're moving in with me and Dad I thought it was temporary and so I hope it is I love you but I hope it is well it's I'm still living here for everyone um but I thought it was temporary and so I thought this is going to be a great refresh I'm going to move to New York I'm going to get a job within like three weeks of getting back like this will be totally fine and then I get back and I just crumble with everything I am crying every day I have no idea how to process my emotions after I just completed like the biggest goal I've ever had in my life and it's over and what am I going to do now and I can't go back into the corporate world but I will never work for my mother and Mom approaches me and ever so slightly she says Hey soy um you need money clearly and I need a little bit of help how about you work on for the entire next week a little research project that I call the let them Theory and I will pay you however much I think it was like 50 bucks to no it was it was like a good I was going to pay a professional researcher okay like $40 an hour because uh the let them Theory I had stumbled upon it many months ago I had shared it online it had gone crazy viral we had done one podcast episode about it and that podcast episode became the sixth most shared episode on all of Apple podcasts of the year and so when something goes that crazy I'm like I need to dig in deeper and I need to understand why is this resonating why are people getting tattoos that say let them before I commit to writing a book about this thing let's dig into the research and see what all of you are telling us the power of the let them theory is and so I was going to hire somebody to do it and so I thought because I was very clear you don't want to work with work for me you've always said I don't want to work for you I don't want to work for you which I respect you want to have your own path in life absolutely agree with that absolutely follow your own path but I was like okay we both have a problem let's see if we can solve it together and so you took on this project 40 bucks an hour I think it was to do a quick research project for two weeks where I gave you the thing that had gone viral initially like a 60-second thing and I gave her the podcast episode and said I want you to dig into the comments and I expected you to come back within two weeks and kind of give me a couple pages of analysis but that's not what happened within 27 hours Sawyer produced a like I don't know 36-page document that was a active Excel table with colorcoded drop-down menus and Source links including not only the 36 pages of site ation and Analysis and color coding and drop down menus but a two-page synopsis which also included the fact that she said Mom you can't write this book because what I'm seeing in the comments is 90% of it's amazing but 10% of people are saying I'm saying let them and I'm really lonely I'm saying let them and I see that my friends don't call me back I'm saying let them and I see I'm the one in my family that makes all the effort we cannot do a book about something that makes people lonely there has to be a second part now meanwhile as she's saying this to me I'm holding this very thick packet of information that looks like some sort of marketing engineer has used AI to create and I'm looking at you and I'm thinking oh my God I think for the first time in your life I actually understand the way your brain works that you basically have a super computer between those bright blue eyes and those beautiful like ears and smile that is crunching data all the time and if you don't have a monster of a project to aim it at you aim it at yourself and it made me want to cry because I understood immediately why you're so hard on yourself and why you're always in your head and then the second reaction that I had was holy I got to figure out how she can work for me because this kid is a genius I've never seen anybody do research like this before I've never seen something organized like this before the analysis was spoton and I will tell you point blank that the reason why the let them theory has Two Steps step one being say let them and let them is where you detach from controlling another person and you let them be who they are and step two is 1,00% because of Sawyer and step two is let me and that's where you say let me and you direct yourself to the truth which is the only thing that you can control in any relationship or your life or your career is you your response what you think what you say what you do how you process your emotions and that's where you get to take responsibility for your life that's where all the control and power comes because when you say let me you're reminding yourself that it's both your responsibility to figure out what you want to do and let's talk about the word responsibility responsibility just means the ability to respond and in our case one of the things that has been absolutely unbelievable around the let them theory is that it's not not only stopped you and me from trying to control the other person but in saying let them let them let them to each other I say let them when Sawyer seems intense I say let them when Sawyer seems pissed off at me I say let them when Sawyer kind of has that crossed armed Vibe and then I say let me let me decide how I'm going to show up right now and there are moments where I choose to step toward you and to try to make sure you know that I'm here and then there are moments where I say let me just give her space instead of micromanaging her and thinking something's wrong let me just respect her as a 25-year-old human being who is allowed to have experiences in life that may be challenging and I don't need to step in and mother her I don't need to step in and smother her I can just let her let her be intense about work right now because there's a lot going on and so long and the short of it is um you agreed to step on and help me write the lean theory book I still can't believe it why can't you believe it I am not a writer like I am not I beg to differ but go ahead and I just remember you saying Sawyer I think we need to write this book together and after loving the research project I signed up and said okay but not full-time I will be on the side and I will be a contractor and then I was this actually really important because I gotta I got to give you massive props for boundaries so notice what she's doing because here's the thing in any relationship when things start to shift it doesn't shift like that these Dynamics between you and the people in your life whether it's your mother or your father or your sister or your brother or maybe it's your adult kids these Dynam Dynamics have been in place for a very long time you both have stories about each other and you got to be willing to first of all go well what do I actually want I know what I have what do I actually want and the thing is before the let them Theory Book and before the tools of let them and let me we had a lot of fun together we could get drunk and hang out and party we can go out to dinner we can go on motherdaughter trips with everybody else and post all the photos but underneath all the veneer there is that sense of I'm not a priority and this doesn't understand me because she's always working and I got to do it on my own and and Dad's the one that's there for me not her and I had this sense of I no matter what I do Sawyer is never going to warm up to me like I know she loves me but she is in intentional about needing to separate and not let me in and I can feel it like you can feel it when somebody in your life is like arms Crossed Swords up I'll let you in when I feel like it or I've had a couple Tequilas like it's just there's people in your life like that and you may have good reason to have those boundaries up because they've hurt you and because they're not predictable and the more that I was working on myself and the more you started working on yourself and the more we both knew we just wanted to be closer without the between us that's where the opening happens but first you got to decide I want to change the story here that I'm telling myself uh for the sake of experiencing something different and at this point I was not in the mindset I'm doing this to improve my relationship with my mom like that is not what I was going into this it was I need some moola and she's got it so so I just want to put that out there that this was not in a intentional self-discovery I need to improve my relationship with my mother this was how my mom marketed it was this is a launching pad and I said great it sounds for for New York yes and for your next gig and you can learn as much as you want you can stay for as long as you want there is no guard rails but I really need some help with this project so for however long you wish it's up to you and we can get started and I had said okay fine but I'm never going to be full-time and let them and I think it's so hilarious because growing up every single week I think Mom would say once a week I just can't wait to have a family business I wanted so desperately for you guys to be part of a family business because I saw how that kept my mom's family in close proximity in Upstate New York and I just figured the world is so busy how cool would it be to all have work to keep us together and since the work is digital and interesting and media there's lots of different things you could do so I always thought as why would I want someone else to run this business why wouldn't I want one of you to run this business and what a better way to be able to be together than to work together and I will say the experience of seeing you as a colleague has been an extraordinary gift because I get to see how your mind works I get to see you in meetings with Audible and Hay House and the pr teams and the Today Show and it's just incredible to get to see a completely different dim menion of who you are and I think if you've got a kid or a sibling or a parent that is an athlete or they're an artist or they do something where you can see this side of them you know what I'm talking about but for those of us that don't perform like who knew your skill was a supercomputer brain that can do digital marketing and project management and be a business lead like that doesn't come out when you're little and I probably would never have seen it in you but for the fact that we had this experience of writing the book together and I'm saying this because I love thinking you don't know the people you think you know that there's a whole different side of the person that you love that you've never even experienced before whether it's artistic talent or a knack for writing poetry or they an incredible sense of direction out in the woods and they can guide you anywhere that the stories that we tell ourselves about the people that we know the best trap us in a relationship with that version of the person and it limits your ability to experience someone in a new light it's one of the reasons why so many of us love our friends so much more than our family because our friends come in and out of our lives and experience us out in the world and our family almost never does our family still experiences us as we were inside that family system as The Golden Child or the Troublemaker or the one that's this and you start to resent the fact that people don't see you for your full self and that's what this experience this past year has done with my relation ship with you and it's also why the let them Theory and saying let them and saying let me is a GameChanger in your relationships because when you start to say let them especially with family it creates the space for you to accept someone as they are and perhaps start seeing them for who they are for the very first time instead of judging or wishing or managing or worrying what when you say let them you do what everybody wants which is you truly learn how to accept somebody instead of trying to control them and then when you say let me you're now queuing yourself and reminding yourself that you get to choose how you show up with this person in your life what energy you bring you know what what sort of questions you ask and when you start to focus on the energy that you bring and how you show up with the people that you think you know best that's what creates the ripple effect that creates change when we started working together I finally understood everything that you do and everything that you have gone through in the past 25 years that I've been alive and I just had such an overwhelming like appreci ation and compassion for everything that you do on a daily basis and how much stress and overload which I am now experiencing um you experience and it's running a business as size yes it's no one knows how big this business is it is insane and like I genuinely don't think Kendall Oakley or dad will ever know how much you go through and I would never know how much you go through through and every everyone that is relying on you and needing your attention and needing things from you and I think that that also really helped me basically look through your frame of reference and your lens and I think it just allowed me to have so much more compassion for you and so much more understanding and just appreciation and once I saw like the internal side of the business and truly put myself in your shoes I think it's only then that I was like I need to show up differently and I want to cheer for her I don't want to boo her and now I understand it's such an important point and this brings me to kind of a takeaway for you listening and it's if you want to change the narrative or the story or the dynamic with somebody that you care about especially if you've known them for a long time you have to truly want to step into their shoes and we talk about this tool called frame of reference that I learned from my friend Lisa Bilu at length and how you use it with the let them Theory but I'm going to give you a couple quick examples because this is really important I recently heard somebody say to me you know I don't understand why my kids are upset by who we voted for in the election and what I said to them is I don't think you're asking the right question because you just said to me I don't understand why they're upset with me maybe the question needs to be I need to step into their shoes to try to understand why they might be upset with me see I think we stand on our side of the line and we look at somebody else and we judge them and say well I don't understand why they're like this have you ever stopped and asked yourself I wonder what it was like for my mom I wonder what it was like for my sister I wonder what it was like for my little brother we're so consumed with our experience that we start to build a narrative around it but we never actually even want to step in and consider and I remember my relationship with my mom sh Ed immediately the second I stopped asked myself wonder what it was like for my mom to be 19 years old in the middle of cansas City married to my dad who is starting medical school and here she has a newborn and she's working nights at the IRS her family is halfway across the country it's just her and my dad who's starting medical school she's a brand new mom she's just got her friend I wonder what that was like and when you stop and St step in someone else's shoes what you realize is most people are not monsters most people are doing the best that they can with the resources and the life experience that they have and the words of Dr ablon people do well when they can and we tend to judge from our point of view and then we sit there and cross our arms and go I don't understand why my mom's so upset with me I don't understand why my sister so selfish I don't understand why well have you stopped and asked yourself I wonder what it must be like to be that person if I assume good intent I wonder what that must be like because there's a difference between wishing someone would understand you and actually taking the time and being interested in understanding why they might think the way that they think and when you're in a relationship with somebody a sibling a parent an adult child where you have got so much baggage built up like you are literally pulling up to any conversation on the phone any text message any anything I want you to imagine you have a freaking U-Haul next to you you got everything that's ever happened all the Death By A Thousand Cuts you're both kind of locked in this it just takes one person to change the dynamic but here's the thing if you're the one that goes to therapy if you're the one that listens to the podcast episodes if you're the one that reads the let them Theory Book if you're the one that starts to calm yourself down and act like a more mature adult in the relationship more loving person if you're the one that's using the tools and you're saying I wonder what it was like when my mom was such and such or I wonder what it must have been like for my little sister or I wonder what it was like for my dad and you step into their shoes do not expect the other person to do the same thing because expecting someone else to meet you at the same level that you are now trying to learn about and meet yourself and go through life they cannot do that unless they've done the work and what we write about extensively in the let them Theory Book in fact the book is divided into eight sections and one of the sections is all about how our attempts to make other people change and our expectations that they should keeps the dynamic stuck and so the hardest part about all of this is that yes you can change the dynamic no question absolutely and all you need is you you do not need the other person's participation because your behavior and your emotional maturity is so powerful that it influences the dynamic and if you're lucky over time it changes is the dynamic and I want you to think about it this way let's say you have a really antagonistic relationship with somebody every time you get on the phone or you see each other it's like you both pull up in your U-Haul trailers with all the baggage you both hope it goes better but the relationship is a lot like a tug-of-war you each pick up the Rope you hook it to the U-Haul and now you're pulling each other with all the baggage and the weight the fastest way to win the tug of- war is to actually just drop the Rope don't play let them let them tug don't tug back and what's going to happen is the person's going to tantrum the person's gonna say flipping things oh is this what you learned in the is this therapy speak that you're using on me now let them say it I don't know Mom just tired of the tension really would love to have a better relationship with you so I'm trying oh let them because they don't know how to operate in the new Dynamic yet they're still committed to the baggage and the story they don't know anything different and now that you're showing up different you're calmer you're not pulling on the rope you're not stabbing back you're just showing up you're clear that you want to shift the dynamic every time they say something that would normally agitate the hell out of you just say let them and let me remind myself that even when they act like an eight-year-old I'm not their parent and it's not my job to manage this so let them and when you stay in your power and you continue to do it over and over and over the person in your life reveals how much they can meet you at this level and you might be surprised you know there are people in my life that I've had antagonistic relationships with and now that I have the let them Theory and I show up very differently and I'm calmer and I'm more compassionate and I'm more understanding and I walk away the second I sniff any kind of stress or antagonism coming I just remove myself from the conversation the dynamic's different as I step into someone else's shoes and I go I wonder what it must be like to be and I really play out the story in my mind from the other person's point of view you know the sibling that didn't get married The Sibling that can't get it together wonder what it must be like to be the one that Mom and Dad is supporting that can't feel that great huh you know wow I I could be a little bit more compassionate here maybe it's not worth my time and energy to actually get bothered by by this maybe I should just bathe myself and feeling sorry for somebody and a little bit more compassionate that this is what their life is like and just let them and let me say let me remind myself that I'm really proud of where I'm at and I I'm proud that I'm the emotionally mature person and what you're going to notice is it takes time because as you said Sawyer and I thought it was a beautiful thing to share that when you were angry you got my attention and a lot of people in life are angry or they're in Breakdown or they treat you in passive aggressive ways because it gets your attention and what does that tell you it tells you all they ever wanted was your attention and maybe you can be the one that can close this distance because you start giving them the attention in an entirely new way and when somebody starts to feel tended to and they start to feel like they have a little bit more of your attention it's kind of shocking how people change now it doesn't always happen and that's something that's important to say because let them doesn't change things it creates the space for things to change and that's why this is so powerful I loved the visual of the R the tug of rope because immediately what I thought was if you put me and you on either side of the tug of rope yep every single time that I was mad at you I was tugging and every single time you would basically hold on tight and tug closer to me yeah because you just wanted to save me and do all this and do all that whenever we fight whenever we used to argue in the past it would be both of us tug of- Waring and I think with the let them Theory which you started implementing with me and our family way before I even knew it I think what ended up happening is I would start to tug and you would drop the rope and I would fall down which happens every single time and it's not falling down in the sense of I'm less than or screw her it's more so oh she's just not playing this game anymore mhm and I think that's what's so beautiful what what is so beautiful about the let them theory is you actually can't play the game of tug-of war when one person isn't playing it takes two and none of us want to see that we are a participant in a dynamic and that's why it takes one person to change not only the dynamic with anyone in your life but it takes one person to change an entire family system system and you know as much as you can change the dynamic with anybody and you can improve any relationship because you can shift how you show up you have to always remember something there is one thing you will never be able to change and that's another person people only change when they feel like changing and when the conditions for changing are present and that's important because if somebody doesn't want to change or they can't change due to some condition in their life right now they're not going to change and there's too many relationships where you're wishing someone would change and you're working against the fundamentals of human wiring which is people have to feel that they are in control of their own lives that's why they're tugging on the Rope they want your attention they want to win they want to be right so they tug on the Rope when you say let's them and you don't play that game you just shifted the dynamic and as things shift and it impacts someone else now they have to question huh if what I used to do doesn't work maybe I should try something else and that means you're triggering the truth about human beings which is they only change when they feel like it and if you're changing the dynamic and what has always happened and all the baggage is no longer relevant because you're not arguing over the same old crap anymore then all of a sudden there's a lot less to argue about and that's what creates this space that makes someone else actually want to change because most people are actually seeking your intention they're seeking to feel important and seen and they've just been going about it in very negative ways or in subconscious patterns that just don't work anymore so you know in the process soy of you and I really learning how to use the let them Theory to create more space for our relationship to change it's really been extraordinary to get to know you in a totally different way and I think that's one of the most exciting things about talking about this today with you know you as you're listening to us is that you have no idea what's possible in your relationships you only know what the way it's been but I see a bigger possibility for you there's no doubt in my mind that people in your life can change don't you agree soy yes 100% so we start writing the book together and G's what do you mean and G gez oh gez it was not a breeze oh my God no we mom yes this was horrible I genuinely think if the topic of the book was not letting other people be themselves live their lives in order for you to live your best life and for you to finally be yourself I would not be sitting here today how come cuz this bookwriting process brought us closer but also was we had it was hard it was really hard you know the let them Theory and saying let them and then saying let me as a way to diffuse tension and frustration and stress in your relationships it doesn't make anything easy it makes it happen as we are writing this book together and just imagine the craziness of this we have a motherdaughter relationship a daughter who does not want to work for her mother a mom who is stressed out and running this massive business dying to be closer to you we now have this project that we're working on only because you need money and it just so happens that the project heals our relationship because the tool that we're writing about is a tool that brings you closer to other people by letting go of controlling them and it forces you to let other people be themselves which makes you see them for the first time I said let them let them let them with you probably five times a day I think I said it 25 times a day and let me just paint the picture for you guys okay so we are living together which is I would not recommend recommend do a project virtually or something but we are living together so every single day for the entire last year this is how it would go we'd wake up hey Mom hey soy how are you oh my gosh you sleep well yeah sleep well okay then we go to exercise together No Boundaries then we eat breakfast together one of us is making the same smoothie for the both of us then we're in such a positive mood we go up to the office sit down and then all of a sudden our personalities come out mom her brain is the most beautiful creative absolute disaster tornado I've ever worked with in my entire life she cannot make a decision she is all over the place and you cannot contain her in structure she wants to creative write for I don't even know how you got your other two books done to be completely honest me Nei but she would love to creative write every single day for the rest of time she wants No Boundaries no structure she pretty much writes the same thing 20 times in a row and it sucks and then I come in and all I want to do is what is the organization what is the structure give me the table of contents give me the outline and I would literally set up outlines for her write this sentence here write this this here write this and the amount you should see our Google drive it is like 5,000 different documents because it is me creating structure Mel not writing mom not writing in it and then her creating a whole separate document where she chooses to write everything and then coming back to me and then we come back together it was both of our brains do not work well together and so the entire time I was trying to control her and she was trying to basically run away from me and so every single day it would start off with us just saying let them every single time I really had to let go of my need to put this into a structure and come up with the main points and summarize it and just work in order of chapters meanwhile we are all over the place and creative writing and we're doing this and then we're scrapping this we literally went through 11 manuscripts and when I say 11 manuscripts it's not a sentence change it is a scrap the entire thing and rewrite from page zero the entire manuscript 11 of them in the last year all of which I said I think we're good here I think not good enough and it was not good enough I agree let them but I literally had to say let them every single time and so that's about 12: 12:00 p.m. when we start getting hangry and annoyed and then we eat because we both notice that we're starting to get snippy and on edge with each other and then comes the afternoon where it can go one of two ways mostly one way which is blow up fight crying you don't you don't listen to me you don't do this you don't do that and then it's a total relationship like therapy session between the two of us where we end up crying and hugging and then getting back to work and then if it was a good day we have a glass of wine if it was a bad day we have a glass of wine and then we go to bed and then we literally every single day Monday through Sunday that was our routine and then in between that producing all these podcast episodes and giving speeches and everything it was a lot it was too much and but but the bigger takeaway is this because I don't want you to be discouraged from ever working in a family business and I don't want you to think that all of the tension and fighting was for not because the bottom line is writing a book is a colossal undertaking typically you would do it in 2 years we produce this one in 8 months that is insane in terms of the timeline and the only reason why it got done was because of you and when you're not only dealing with somebody that you have a story about and you want to have a better relationship with but you also have very different working Styles and thinking styles using the let them theory is a lifesaver because every time I would say let them because Sawyer was yelling at me that I was rewriting a chapter and I was wasn't following the outline and why even bother doing an outline if you're not even going to follow it every time I said let them what happened is I recognized the genius in your brain because this is how you think you know in life there are what I call box jumpers and box steppers so if you imagine a path every step a b CDE e the path leaves from point A to point Z you are the kind of person soer that you don't need to C Point Z you know exactly what A to B to B to C to C to D you are a genius you are a box stepper you can take any process you can organize a structure around it like my brain cannot do that it can't your dad is the same way I am a different type of thinker I am what you call a box jumper and it is my genius to stand at Point a and see all the way down the line and go oh we're going to W now I have no idea how to create a map to get there but I know we're going to get there and here's the problem with most of our relationships I want Sawyer to be a box jumper I want her to think like me I want her to be like me and that's why I feel frustrated and tension and like anger and resentment because you're not like me and you don't think like me meanwhile Sawyer just wishes I was a box PE that I could go from A to B and then B to C and she doesn't understand why my brain doesn't work the way that her brain works and I think most of us build up this invisible distance with one another because we've never learned how to say let them and when you say let them and you let somebody freak out because their brain works differently or because their expectations weren't met like I think a lot about especially around the holidays or big celebrations of course your family is bummed you're not coming they love you shouldn't they be upset shouldn't they be disappointed I mean what's the alternative I'm glad you're not coming because I hate you anyway instead of saying oh well what does it actually mean if someone's disappointed it just means they love me and they just wish I were there doesn't mean I have to change my plans because two things can be true at once someone can be disappointed in me and still love me and I can be kind of sad that this year I'm going to my in-laws and I'm going to miss out but those can both be true and what can also be true is my daughter and I can be very different thinkers and we can be wired very differently and through understanding and acceptance there's room for both of us and it's in that space where Sawyer can be frustrated because I'm yet again as an artist I'm just an artist that's what I am I blow something up because I know that this isn't going to take us to W and I can't explain to her how we're going to get to W but I know her genius will get us there if I can create space for your experience to be sad or emotional or mad and just let them and then I say well let me let me be honest with myself about what I know to be true and let me hold space for you to be upset same thing's through with you okay let them here goes mom again the crazy insane artist letter and let me remind myself as the project manager on this if this doesn't hit the deadline not my fault it's hers so let her blow it up because it's her name on the cover let her do it because she's going to have to reap the consequences of it and it was not easy and that's the thing about the let them Theory as a tool it's a tool that you are going to use every day in every relationship I literally say it every day in my marriage I say it every day with Sawyer because little things piss you off little things make you roll your eyes but instead of letting those little things become the invisible cuts that create the distance that makes your relationship slowly die and resentment take over when you say let them you just let them go and it doesn't build up and you learn how to love the person as they are instead of constantly wishing they were just like you cuz they're never going to be I think that also using the let them theory in this book writing process made this book so much better because you let me write from a 20's perspective and I let you even though I can't relate from a 50s perspective and so I feel like this book has so much relatable stories and so it reaches so many different AG age groups mine yours everyone's in between that it actually brought the F finishing product Oh My godc to be so much better and I think that that like just having both of our writing styles woven in throughout of it is really amazing well if we hadn't had let them we probably would have thrown this project out the window and said let's not bother and you would have quit and moved to New York and said see I told you but it was the tool of saying let them and then saying let me that created the space for us to work together on a project and have very different styles and also very different experiences CU this is my ninth book we've got we've done six audio books for audible we did the 5sec rule and the high five habit so I've been through this Rodeo you haven't and so it's also this experience of bringing someone into a project who is learning in the seat doing a remarkable job but also all the stress and anxiety that comes from never having done it before 100% And I think that also you I noticed that you had done let them a lot with me when I was freaking out about things that you didn't think were a big deal and vice versa and I want to say two things I want to say one piece of advice of another way that you can use let them and let me and I want to say one warning that I experienced during this process oh so the first is that what I love about the let them theory is that you can vocalize it and so I feel like in a lot of our conversations at the end of the day Mom you would I would say to you I am trying to let you have your process and I am trying to let you creatively write about this topic and at the same time I need you to let me create these briefs and create this this because this is how I think and otherwise I don't understand what you're doing and so I feel like it's a tool for you to approach a conversation as well as saying it to yourself whereas you can go up to your loved one or whoever you are hoping to communicate better with or build your relationship stronger and say I am trying to let you do X and at the same time I need you to let me do X soer that is a genius takeaway and let me tell you why just to add to this because it's way bigger than working on a project with somebody that thinks differently there are going to be times in any relationship whether it's with a sibling or a parent or an adult child or the person that you're in a relationship with where you don't like what they're about to go do you're worried about it you think it's a dumb thing like for example let's say you have somebody in your life who's planning on quitting a great job to go start a business they want to follow their dreams right of course you're worried about it most businesses fail of course you have concerns about whether or not it's going to be successful and whether or not this is the right time but in life you have to let them you have to let them live their lives you've got to let them follow their path you have to let let them try things and fail so you can say to someone in your life that is about to change their major or quit their job or date somebody that you're like red flags red flags red flags which we all know nobody listens to anyway when you try to warn people so you got to let them but it is 1,00% effective for you to go and you need to let me do what I need to do in this regard so you need to let me create a budget if you're going to go quit your job and launch a business you need to let me create a spreadsheet that shows you exactly how much money we have before we run out which then allows me to manage what I'm worried about without trying to control you to manage what I'm worried about do you see what I'm saying and so the second that you said to me because I kept going I don't need a table of contents like don't need this just let me write and you'll be like Mom I'm going to let you do your thing but you have to let me organize myself in a way that makes me feel comfortable when I get on the phone with the publisher because I need to organize myself and I realize I'm responsible for that and you also started to realize controlling you isn't going to actually give you power and then the warning that I will say is I found myself throughout the process whenever you and I would get into it a little bit that I would always let them and I would always use that tool but I rarely followed up with let me and let me explain so you would say I need to do it this way I need this from you I need this blah blah blah blah blah XYZ and my initial response I would tell myself let them do not react do not not play into it do not try to be right and as a result my response was always silence and I would always just let you go and let you do your process and I would sit back and feel very sad and emotional and left out and felt like you weren't listening to me and as a result my emotions would Bubble Up and Bubble Up and then I would explode and I think what was really crucial and that I really noticed is that whenever I use let them with you I always had to follow it up with let me which is don't react but collect my emotions take a breath say let let them let Mom let her do her process instead let me communicate how this makes me feel or communicate how her not using the organization or the this or disregarding the months worth of work that I've done and creating something brand new is making me feel well and I want to broaden this out because we really in the course of writing the book about the letham theory and how stressful it was use these tools all day long and so this applies in every relationship because if all you do is say let them and even if it's like the example of you go home and your mom is like I don't know I I get all stressed out when people are coming over and got to clean the house and got to and and anybody that tries to help I'm bristly and if all the family does is say let them let her get all worked up let her micromanage and nobody then says to thems I got to say let me mom when you get like this it's not fun for anybody let me help you what that does is it breaks up the dynamic weather's invisible distance because your silence when somebody's behavior is making you upset it actually creates distance because when you stay silent you take a step away from somebody and when you remind yourself by saying let me you now prompt yourself to say something and every time you say something not so that you control the other person not so that you change what's happening but so that you say how you're feeling or how somebody's behavior is impacting you you actually take a step closer to somebody and it's in hearing how my behavior was impacting you that would have me stop in my tracks and change how I was operating because I didn't want to make you feel that way I was just all stressed out and worried about the book deadline so of course I'm like doing what I think it's going to do same thing with with getting ready for guests to come over everybody's running around like a lunatic because they're stressed out and when we say let them let them let them we don't let somebody else's stress impact us but when we say let me tell them how their behavior is impacting me now I'm taking a step closer and seeking connection instead of creating more distance does that make sense yeah 100% And what's so beautiful about the let them theory is the fact that it's a gift to someone else as well how so I think that like all I want is for people to use a let them theory on me I want people to say let Sawyer do her thing I want people to say let Sawyer be who she is I want you to say let Sawyer want to organize and have her OCD and let me be who I am without trying to control me and so I think that our relationship improved because we both were using let them on each other and so I think that the let them Theory improves relationships because it's not only when you start using it the first step in proving and breaking this toxic Dynamic but I think it's such a great gift to share with other people and to share with your loved ones because when they start using it on you you're going to be like hallelujah hallelujah girl yes keep using it like it's so amazing and it's it's it's great I love it I do too I do too it like creates room for more love when you say it and so I want to just make sure that you're leaving not only seeing yourself in a dynamic with a sister or a parent or an adult child or somebody that you love where this sort of invisible distance and weirdness I want to make sure that you really kind of get some of the key takeaways and the first one is we all have a story about the other person and until you recognize that you have a story about the other person and Sawyer's story was is what about me I think my story about you was that you don't care about me and that you only care about work and my siblings and go I I still hate hearing it even though I know it's not is it's not it's not my current story what's your current story that I think my current story is that you've gone above and beyond and worked your ass off your entire life to provide for us and to show up for us and to love us in so many ways and provide and like just be the best role model in the world and like I think you're the best mom ever and my story was that you're always mad at me and I've done something wrong and that you don't need me and that you don't want me unless I'm paying for something or you have an emergency and that is not my story my story now is that I get to see you every day and work with you and I have just crazy admiration for the way that you think and your work ethic and as your mother I'm just worried I want you to have a little fun that's all but I got to let them let them book launch is almost B launch then I'll have some fun um that's tool number one recognize the story you're telling and then ask yourself what is the story I want and if there is this invisible distance or this weird friction what do you want and it might just be I'd just like to be a little closer I'd like to have more fun again I'd like to stop arguing about stupid stuff I'd like us to both come out of our corners and uncross our arms and just realize we're on the same side and you know that brings me to the next thing which is it's very helpful to stop and ask yourself I wonder what it's like I wonder what it's like to be the oldest and a family of three where mom's always working and dad's business failed and Mom's always gone and she's always stressed out like I wonder what that's like and to have a younger sister that's on a stage and that is this and that I wonder what it's like to feel the weight of responsibility and to feel like you're not seen or that things are never good enough and when you stop and go I wonder what it's like and you put yourself in their shoes for the sake of truly wanting to understand what their story might be it allows you to lower your sword and uncross your arms and drop the rope and really come from more of a place of a little bit of compassion and then you're going to use the let them Theory and you're going to say let them whenever they're just being themselves whenever the U-Haul arrives with all the baggage you know whenever the old stuff comes up whenever you feel the distance the stress the frustration the whatever let them because the more you let them be the better your relationships are going to become and the more the dynamic shifts and then you got to always remember to say let me because that's where you remind yourself that what you feel and what you need and the actions you take really matter here and the final piece of advice that I I want to give you is that there's no doubt in my mind that the let them Theory alone would have transformed our relationship but it was accelerated in terms of the timeline for transformation because we had a project to work on and this is a really important thing to consider I bet you've had experience in your life where something happened maybe somebody got really sick in your family and everybody drops everything and runs in to help and suddenly the baggage isn't there because there is something other than the history that everybody's organized around that made you be on the same side and so I want you to consider is there some kind of project that you could think up that could help you erase some of this distance could you ask for help maybe there's a back bedroom you need to move out and you want to set up an office and one of your siblings or your mom or one of your adult kids is fantastic at kind of interior design and Pinterest boards what if you ask them for a little bit of help it's a project that you could organize yourselves around where you're on the same side and this kind of thing isn't just what so and I experienced I dug into the research because I was really curious about this turns out that there was a study done in fact two of them that I want to share with you because I think you'll find it empowering the National Institute of Health wrote about how when people have to solve a problem together we had to write a book maybe your problem is you have a kid that's been diagnosed with dyslexia and you don't know what to do but your sister's really good at this stuff or maybe you're going through a breakup and you need help and your mom's not that great until you actually need consoling and so when you have a project that you can work on a problem that you're going to solve together number one it creates this common goal which is going to give you and this person in your life a shared purpose it's going to allow the two of you to collaborate and the other thing that it does is it creates Mutual Reliance in any relationship where's there's this invisible distance you're not relying on each other you're actually resentful and antagonistic of one another when you come up with something cool whether it's a project or a little trip you can take together or or something cool you could do together or something it's going to help you create a stronger Bond because it gets the focus off the dynamic and onto the project or the problem you're solving or the trip you're going to take something that creates this sense that you actually belong together and I'm going to share one more thing do you know they actually did a study this is out of the University of Texas where hurricanes they did this after Hurricane Harvey and I'm not suggesting that hurricanes don't come with problems but when a family or a couple goes through a natural disaster together there is a massive jump in happiness after the hurricane goes through why because a natural disaster suddenly reminds you of what actually matters and all those little things that have built up all over time and that created all that distance suddenly doesn't because you've got bigger things you need to deal with and problem solve and work on together to get through it and that's what that book did for you and me that's what you can create with anybody in your life and using these simple tools and of course the let them Theory you have a couple simple things that you can do that will help you close the distance and create a different connection with somebody that you deeply care about and I really hope you do anything else you want to say so the last thing I'm going to say is something I'm really excited about is that you and I not only are going to have this tool for the rest of our life but we're going to use this tool for the rest of our life and I am so confident it's going to continue with every use that our relationship will get better and better and the fact that we have this book and this tool that I can give to my own kids to improve I'm 25 I don't have kids but eventually um eventually do you use it with your significant other yes every day does he use it with you I hope so but he will be the first to be getting the book so I'm very excited to gift it to him so he can use the let them theory on me and I'm really excited too like that's the thing is that everybody thinks that this is about other people it's actually about you you want people to be saying let them you want your whole family to know this and I am so excited for this to be out in the world I'm excited for you to learn to use it I'm excited for you to drop the Rope and stop like doing the tugging back and forth with people I'm excited for you to close the distance between you and people that you care about and if they continue to be emotionally immature you're going to have the let them Theory by your side because it does take time I want to thank you for being here together with me and Sawyer I'm so excited for the people in your life that you're going to share this with and that you're going to give the let them Theory Book to and I cannot wait to hear how you use it for you so I just want to say I love you so much it is the greatest gift in the world to have had this experience together and to get to share work together and experience a whole different side of you that I would never have if I was just your mom I love you Mom I love you too and I also wanted to be sure to say in case no one else says it to you today that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life and the let them theory is absolutely going to help you do that all righty I'll be waiting for you the moment you hit play in the very next episode I'll see you there thank you by the way for watching all the way to the end I love that you are here I cannot wait to see who you share this with particularly siblings mother daughter this is also father son this Dynamic is present for all of us and one more thing I wanted to just quickly say hit subscribe and the reason why I'm asking you to do this is I have a goal and the goal is that 50% of the people who watch this channel are subscribers it's free it costs you nothing it's a simple way you can tell your friend Mel Robbins that you really appreciate the content that we're creating for you and the experts that we bring you almost every day here on this channel for free and right now we're about 7% away from reaching that goal and so your subscribe would be a huge deal really appreciate that now I know you're probably thinking Mel I loved this what can I watch next well I am going to be waiting for you in this video you're going to absolutely love it and I'll be there the moment you hit play I'll see you there