ladies and gentlemen please welcome the president of SMU Dr gerald Turner thank all of you for being with us we were kind of worried about the weather for a while but uh hope you got here in time to enjoy the campus most of you have been here in McFarland Auditorium before but it's a great center for community kinds of activities and it also is involved very much with our partnership with the Bush Presidential Center uh tickets to this conversation were were made free to all of you participating thanks to the generosity of the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas Texas Instruments and NextPoint thank all three of you for doing that the Bush Center has been on our campus now 12 years it's hard to believe but it's 12 years we could offer university type programs filled with the curious minds of students and also augmented by what goes on at the Bush Presidential Center the Bush Center has had an off an very important role in making sure that our research programs and outreach to students uh involve the Bush Center we have students who are involved in workshops and involved in all kinds of things at the Bush Center we have set it up to where the Bush Center can take care of any size audience up to about 10,000 and we do the 10,000 through Moody and do the 2800 here and then we share in some of the resources of the Bush Center with our students and faculty and staff so it's a great partnership and we're very pleased that that when we started on this many years ago when President Bush was elected that it came out that we are in fact the recipient of it it's been a great addition to our campus and one that we cherish and as mentioned in the video that we're very proud of one of the things that uh we know that in partnerships with so many community activities and community organizations that uh we share sponsors too and part of that is with Texas Instruments who's long supported SMU as we have arrived as we have strived to be home to problem solving and innovation texas Instruments set the gold standard here in Dallas for innovation the semiconductor revolution started right up Central Expressway from here and they're committed to educating the next generation of brilliant minds and thankfully many of those brilliant minds are SMU grads so please join me in welcoming Andy Smith director of giving and volunteering at Texas Instruments and executive director of the Texas Instrument Foundation andy thank you very much thank you Dr turner and uh as a proud Mustang I have to say thank you for all you've done uh for your presidency at SNE we're going to miss you but uh we really appreciate all that you've done it's a really Yes let's give him a round of applause and it is a pleasure to be here with you tonight texas Instruments is honored to partner with SMU the Bush Center NextPoint and United Way of Metropolitan Dallas to support this event promoting understanding and Jennifer Samson I don't know where you are but you're out there somewhere tonight uh congratulations to you and your team at United Way of Metropolitan Dallas on your centennial anniversary uh TI has been a partner with you for uh more than half of your 100 years and we look forward to the next 100 and working with you and I just uh am amazed at the impact that y'all have made on Dallas and I cannot imagine uh Dallas without you ti certainly recognizes the value of difficult and civil conversations to create and facilitate change in fact J eric Johnson who is one of TI's founders demonstrated the importance of difficult conversations even in inopportune moments in the aftermath of President John F kennedy's assassination Mr johnson became mayor of Dallas and led our city through a number of difficult conversations to rebuild our s city's image boost morale and bring more businesses these difficult conversations remain especially crucial today in my role I frequently engage in kind candid conversations with TI's nonprofit partners to better understand community needs and the barriers preventing Dallas from being an exceptional place to live for all of our residents then work collaboratively with them to address those challenges ultimately these dialogues build trust and drive meaningful progress in that same spirit I am excited for the unique unique exchange of insights that we'll hear tonight it's now my pleasure to introduce our speakers first Emanuel Ao athlete author social media star and Dallas native and second Ken Hers Hirs president and CEO of the George W bush Presidential Center and also my neighbor please help me welcome Emanuel and Ken to the stage hello hello hello it's good to see y'all it's good to be back home in Dallas it is it's good to have you back in Dallas yeah man actually that's where I want to start uh because before we have an uh an uncomfortable conversation I want to have a little bit of a comfortable conversation because your story starts right here in Dallas it does um St marks class of08 your father and mother being of Nigerian descent and a standout athlete hold on a second Ken we couldn't have found a better picture there we go like we could not have found a better picture than that one there you go so mom was there with you at every step and then uh and then you go to UT and you're able to play with your brother big time big time what was that like playing with your brother um it was fun but it was complex because I remember being in high school and I remember playing my my rival basketball schools Episcopal School of Dallas and anytime okay we don't like you remember I said rival school rival School emphasis on the word rival um and I remember playing Episcopal School of Dallas and anytime I would get the ball to dribble they would chant shadow shadow and so I felt like I was constantly in my brother's shadow for so long um but then by the time we got to Texas it was great times um we became the AO brothers he had a stellar college career i did well for myself went on to the NFL um so it was it was great well great so that so you didn't like the ESD Eagles but then you got drafted by the Browns and traded to the Eagles the uh There we go number 51 what was the significance of 51 it was the only jersey number available Ken i think that was a that was a significance no no significance i will say slightly depressed cuz I retired one year before the Eagles won the Super Bowl um so unfortunate fate and luck for me there but the NFL career it was we'll get into it but it was fun okay well let so with that background really you've had a really blended background where you've been able to see all sorts of different walks and worlds yeah right here in this town and how has that plus being from an immigrant family um how has that shaped your journey i I think that is my journey right we are a combination of our life experiences we are a combination of our upbringing we are a combination of our education and our schooling we are a combination of the people that we keep around us and thankfully I have kept around a very diverse portfolio of people st mark's incredibly incredibly incredibly difficult incredibly difficult um and then I go to church at Oakliff and that was a different experience then I go to college at Texas and that's a different experience and so I think my whole upbringing was shaped by all of the different groups and all of the different uh organizations I was a part of and I wouldn't be where I was today I would suggest if not for each one of those different experiences being in all of those different opportunities okay so so let's talk about that uh for a minute because when I researched your timeline um what happened in your life was absolutely stunning you were uh minding your own business in May of 20 as a ESPN college analyst and on May 25th of 2020 these dates May 25th George Floyd was murdered a week later you film a podcast alone a nine and a half minute podcast got 20 some odd million views a week after that you announce you're leaving ESPN to go to Fox Sports you post a a podcast with Matthew McConna a week later five months later you publish a New York Times bestseller endorsed by Oprah five months later and two months after that you're awarded an Emmy and a month and a half later you're hosting The Bachelor after the Final Rose episode okay so so we're talking about we're talking about from May of 2020 to February of 21 your life completely changed what was going most proud of hosting the Bachelor by the way i'm most proud of hosting The Bachelor now really I bet what your life turned upside down talk about that uh all right let me let me tell y'all a story i rarely speak to to live audiences so we're going to have fun together we're all family i appreciate y'all coming out y'all could be doing anything watching the NFL draft i should be watching the NFL draft um no so we're fun we're having fun i'm going to tell y'all a story after after the murder of George Floyd I was trying to figure out okay what was I going to do i was I was righteously angry and I felt like my life experiences going to St marks going to church in an inner city playing at Texas led me to a point and so I was going to do something called uh uncomfortable conversations right that's not I'm lying it wasn't going to be called uncomfortable conversations i'm going to be honest okay i'm not going to lie until about 30 minutes into this conversation but the first 30 minutes I'll be truthful at first the title was simply going to be questions white people have is this true why because white people have questions okay so it was going to be questions white people have but my friend Ken they call me and they say Emanuel I think you should change the title to uncomfortable conversations because it's more than just white people that have questions so I was like "Ah it doesn't stick." Uncomfortable conversations it doesn't stick so true story i had just finished a bike ride in Austin Texas i live in a little area called Mueller in Austin Texas i walk inside my house i walk by a mirror i look to the right i walked back by the mirror i looked to the left i was like "Wait a second you're a black man uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man." So that's how the title became Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man i go into the studio space i was supposed to record the first episode with a dear friend of mine she drove from Dallas to Austin we were supposed to sit down and have a conversation remember audience uncomfortable conversations with a black man not uncomfortable monologue with a black man but the reason I'm in the first episode by myself is because at the last second my friend had a change of heart i record the first episode by myself it gets 25 million views in 5 days i get a call 5 days later i'm sitting in my living room it's a no- caller ID number i pick it up ao mccah speaking i want to have a conversation i was like mah m like Matthew McConn my voice gets high when I talk to famous people mc like Matthew M he said I want to have a conversation i say cool let's do it in 4 days i didn't think I could follow up a 25 million viewed episode so I do that episode uh oh no that's not what happens mcc responds he says "How about tomorrow?" So we do the next episode this episode you're seeing here with Matthew McConn the next day secret you see us in an all-white room that's the That's the premise of uncomfortable conversations it was not shot in an all-white room just telling you all this when MCA says he wants to do it tomorrow I call the owner of the studio true story owner's like "Emmanuel great we can shoot tomorrow only one problem." I say "Proble what's the problem?" They say "The studio is all blue it takes 24 hours to paint it takes 24 hours to dry i say "I'm not telling MCCA this." So what we do is we take a white sheet of paper we roll it down behind us and we cheat the camera so it looks like we're in an all-white room mcconna and I we do the next episode 5 days later I get another call no caller ID number now quick aside audience i pick up no caller ID numbers it works for me i do not suggest you all pick up no caller ID numbers just quick aside i pick up this no caller i did number five days later after McConna hi Emanuel oprah Winfrey speaking i say Oprah like Oprah remember Ken my voice gets high when I talk to him i see that oprah oprah she said "Emmanuel do you have time to FaceTime later today?" I said "Do I have time to FaceTime do you have time to FaceTime?" Um I hop on a FaceTime call with Oprah and she simply asked me one question she said Emanuel what is your intention i said Oprah my intention is to change the world i truly believe I can i'm currently working on writing a book she said "Books i love books." Um and so Oprah and I partnered together to write three books i believe I'm the only person not named Oprah to have three books under the Oprah imprint so the book you see behind us um Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man debuted at number three on the New York Times bestsellers list and I wrote that in partnership with Oprah and the speed with which that book came out and then seven months later uh well and then a few months later you you you do a middle school version um conversation uncomfortable conversations with a black boy yep and then you write this book illogical that puts you then on the commencement stage for the University of Texas there's no woo like nobody went to Texas here no like like I mean thank you thank you i see I see the four people with their horns up that makes five yeah I can't keep counting y'all out okay the lights are bright i'm going to get I'm going to get a royalty if I can get you to do pony up here we're going to work on that later but how cool was that uh I would suggest to that point highlight of my life um that was at the time the biggest commencement speech ever because that was the first commencement speech inside the football stadium usually commencement would take place in front of what we call the tower and it could hold about 18,000 people but after COVID they moved the commencement speeches inside the stadium because of social distancing well I did it in 2022 so now you no longer had to socially distance so you could pack like 60,000 people there having played at Texas got my master's degree at Texas my undergrad degree at Texas to go back and speak at Texas that's the top four speaking event I've ever done and that was that was and that that speech was two days shy of the second anniversary of George Floyd so in 24 months you went from that being a football analyst to now delivering the speech at your alma mater and you talk about you talked about your book at that at that commencement a book that we're going to uh have available tonight called Illogical and in in that book you say um you advise people to delight in the detour and your life was taking detours at that moment so explain explain that concept sometimes I think in life your detour is greater than your original destination like we all have a destination of where we want to get to in life when I graduated from Texas I wanted to play 10 years in the National Football League one of my my Texas teammates Kenan I believe is here in the audience and we rode together linebackers next to each other and I wanted to play 10 years in the NFL but I broke my thumb in the NFL i tore my quad off the bone i tore my groin and I tore my MCL so in four years I got hurt four times i'll share a story we got time okay i'm at the NFL combine right i'm working out in front of 32 billionaires so 32 of the richest people in our world i'm running a 40-yard dash i take off to run this 40-yard dash realizing the difference between tens of millions of dollars is that like 2 seconds is the difference between you going the first round and you go on the fifth round i'm running the 40-yard dash as I'm running ken I hear boom boom boom i think my heels are clicking audience so I keep running boom boom boom it was my quad being torn off the bone oh no uh I clutch at my quad i fall to the ground and I roll around in agony and at that point in time I was like will I even get drafted end up getting drafted in the sixth round play four years in the NFL um delight in the detour your life will constantly give you detours what people don't realize illogical was the third book I ever wrote but it was the first book I ever started if you go back on 4420 in the midst of co I tweet out "Well I guess it's time to write a book this co everybody's just kind of chilling." So I start writing illogical but in May George Floyd he gets murdered i stop writing ological i start uncomfortable conversations illogical does not come out until two years later so uncomfortable conversations was a detour the Emmy award was a detour speaking at commencement was a detour all of the great things that have happened in my life that have led me to this stage those were all a detour the destination was actually illogical but the detour was greater so I suggest sometimes in life your detours are actually greater than your destination and in that book you say life prepares you for your destiny while your destiny is being prepared for you yeah yeah that's really deep i don't know where that comes from actually i don't know uh no I've realized often times we get very impatient and by we I mean I why hasn't this happened yet why hasn't this happened why hasn't this happened and I realized oh these things may not have happened yet because your destiny is being prepared for you to walk through the door and if you walk through the door prematurely you'll never have the maximum impact that you were supposed to have if I wrote a logical when I wanted to write a logical my platform was significantly smaller i wanted to write a logical before in comfortable conversations not realizing that hey if you write this book two years later the impact that you will have society is 10x what you ever would have realized but your destiny was being prepared for you and so I just said that to remind myself sometimes you're being prepared for your destiny but more importantly behind the door that you don't see your destiny is being prepared for you and that's perfect for the next uh theme in the book um because you say being illogical is believing that it is so even when it is not so so that it can be so amen to that right now explain that it sounds great but how do you put that into man um making it to the NFL as the son of Nigerian immigrants is illogical it's illogical i I learned how to play football by watching YouTube clips i would just watch clips of of linebackers Ray Lewis and Derek Johnson on YouTube and that's how I taught myself how to play football getting a call from Oprah Winfrey is illogical um writing a book that turns into a bestseller and I don't even like to write is illogical um but you have to believe you can do all these things even when these things have yet to be done so that inevitably they can be done and that was my message to the audience um at commencement was you got to believe it is so so I had to believe I could make it to the NFL even when it was not so even when I was not in the NFL so that it could be so so that's really how I live my life and like currently I want to win a Grammy i want to win an Oscar and I want to win a Tony i want to get a EGOT um so I'm just like I'm going to believe it's going to happen even though it hasn't happened and then when we have this conversation 10 years from now hopefully there's some more pictures okay behind you better looking ones too can I'm choosing those pictures all right that's good the uh and we might have some some non-aller blocked IDs to pick up the phone for those casting calls so the uh you also con the concept of failing forward um was was something that was important to you explain how that how do you have to how do you fail forward i realized it was after I tore my quad at the NFL combine and I finally said to myself "Wait a second Emanuel you didn't fail you fell and as long as you get up you win." Oftent times I was thinking "Gosh you failed at this." My brother he we went to St marks he went to Texas y'all saw the pictures so he got drafted pick 104 by the Arizona Cardinals right and so as soon as he got drafted the only thing I wanted to accomplish the next year was get drafted pick 103 or better that was it that's all I got to do just beat your brother you win the second I tore my quad at the NFL combine I was like this is not going to happen literally at the NFL combine I fell and so I had to recalibrate my mind like wait a second Acho you didn't fail you fell and as long as you get up the you win the winning is in getting up if you can understand that in life you didn't necessarily fail you just fell down get up keep going get up keep going and and what people don't realize often especially when I'm on a stage like this that's why I like to brag about my failures i have failed a lot people just see the books and they see the Emmys and they see this and that you don't see the shows I pitched that didn't get picked up you don't see the chapters I wrote that didn't make the cut you didn't see the shows I shot that never got produced like you don't see all the failure but when I tell you I have failed so so so much i remember being at St marks and it was like I I was going into I was in eighth grade uh I won't say my teacher's name Douglas Rummel i was in um I was in eighth grade and I had to like get a C on the test just to make it to ninth grade like I was just trying to stay afloat because I was so young for my grade that like I didn't want to repeat though because then I'm embarrassed and I was like dude no you didn't fail you didn't fail you were just falling but just keep getting up keep going keep going i did graduate okay everybody relax i graduated from St marks i have a degree okay we're fine we're fine we like that now so what you did do was find your thing now Oprah said that you have a thing did she really say you have a thing um does Oprah is that are those words Oprah used man you know what's great i forget so much of the things that have happened so I smile sometimes during this conversation i'm like that really happened to me story time um I was shooting an episode of Uncomfortable Conversations with Oprah oprah had launched a TV show for Apple TV called the Oprah Conversation so Uncomfortable Conversations was going to meet the Oprah conversation she called me she said "Hey Emanuel I want to do something together with you." I said "Okay great it's during co." So Oprah was going to be on a main a big TV like a 60-inch monitor and there were going to be nine autopop populated iPads different faces would pop up they would ask a question oprah would take the question she would ask it to me i would answer another person populates ask a question oprah takes the question ask it to me i answer we go on for about two hours i think it's still out there you can watch it on the Oprah conversation on Apple TV after the the conversation I go into my dressing room i'm like "Oh that was great." You know just finished talking to Oprah it was great her executive producer walks in she says "Hey Emanuel great job only one problem." I said "What's the problem?" She said "Oprah just called you you missed it." I said "Oops." Um I pick up my phone i call Oprah back she says I'll never forget it i'll never forget it i have it in my phone to this day she said "You have the thing my friend you have the thing." And coming from someone who had the thing and has the thing you my friend you have the thing um quote direct quote now mind y'all I like wasn't used to talking to Oprah so I'm just going to talk i say "Wait a second what is the thing?" She said "You have a unique ability to deliver hard truths to different individuals and they're still willing to hear it." Um and so I realized in that moment I had the thing everybody has the thing it's just what is your thing i tell people all the time find your thing work on your thing and use your thing it's one thing to have it and what is the thing the thing is just a natural ability that you probably excel at that other people's don't everybody has the thing some people's thing is more glorified in the culture than others right like but everybody has the thing but not only was I by the grace of God able to find it then you got to work at it you got to work at it tirelessly and then once you find it you have to develop it once you develop it you have to use it but everybody has it and one of one of your things is your authenticity um your ability to be honest and vulnerable and connect um and and how do you balance that authenticity and vulnerability um and and then kind of protecting yourself in that process that's a really good question i believe that you can impress people with your success but you can impact people with your scars and I try to choose to impact people and so I will sacrifice protecting myself for the sake of mass impact and that might look like sitting and having the uncomfortable conversation that might look like sharing your failure that might look like basking in your shortcoming impressing someone is easy i can impress you with a trophy but impacting someone is much more difficult and you're much more relatable when you lead with your failures because everybody's failed people just usually fail in private i don't mind failing publicly um so that's kind of the the motto I often live by and I heard it before i can impress you with my success but I can impact you by sharing my scars so I'll share the scar so we found a we found a moment where you really did expose your vulnerability um on a uh on a the shoot of your show um at the end of last year for Second Chance Stage where one of the judges on this show Martina McBride um had a song called Independence Day that really moved you and I want to show a little clip of your vulnerability oh is it cool if we just have some fun tonight what let me just Is that cool is that cool what i'm not really sure how this works what let freedom ring let the white do sing let the whole world know that today is a day of reckoning you better let the weak be strong let the right be wrong let me find out roll that stone away let the guilty pay it's Independence Day this this entire season was filmed over a 14-day period and and you got hooked on this song now talk about you're putting yourself out there to get ready for that moment which that's another good story um so Martina McBride was one of the judges on a show I was hosting called Second Chance Stage martina McBride 18 time Grammy nominee i was hosting it with Tay Diggs actor and Heidi Gardner from Saturday Night Live Second Chance Stage the premise was if Ken was a singer in his early teens but maybe Ken's parents got sick and so Ken had to leave Los Angeles and move back to tend to his ailing mother in Albuquerque New Mexico but now in his mid30s his 40s his 50s Ken wants to pursue his career again it's his second chance at the stage right second chance stage winner of this competition would take home a $100,000 variety competition show martina though she was so elegant she couldn't be moved like nothing phased her just one of those women that are just so prim and so proper that like can I get you to smile please like nothing moved her and so we had a a 14-day shoot in Kansas City but there were seven days maybe maybe four or five days between the last episode and the finale episode and so I said "All right Emanuel you got to do something." Nobody up until that point knew I could play or sing i say "I can't really play the piano i like play the piano i can't read music i just kind of make things sound like they sound right." Um so I actually I went to Dallas because I had three days off i didn't want to stay in Kansas the whole time and I went to Guitar Center there's a Guitar Center I think off 75 here um and I True story i still got the videos i go to Guitar Center and I teach myself how to play her song remember I can't read music so in order for me to learn how to play it I just got to keep playing it until it sounds right so I sit in Guitar Center for hours on end and I just start figuring out how to play it figuring out how to play it i don't tell anybody besides the stage director we go back to shoot the show i tell the stage director "Hey clear the auditorium we're going to rehearse." Said "What are we rehearsing?" I want to sing Martina's song back to her um I call my vocal coach and she says "All right Emanuel we're going to do this we're going to do this make it sound like this." Here's the problem Ken i don't sing i talk and so I'm so nervous you sound like you sing in that clip for 50 seconds i convinced you i'm so nervous i was sweating through my suit like through my suit i mind you though before I can get to singing I have to host the show audience it's not just like I get out there I sing I go home i'm the host so I got to ladies and gentlemen tonight we got Ken ken come out to the stage i got to do that for like six seven times in between act six and act seven I got to sing so the whole time I'm only thinking about the fact that I have to sing after act six they bring the piano out and now I'm looking side stage so nobody can see me i'm looking at the piano i tell the stage director "Make sure the microphone is situated for me cuz I don't know how to adjust it." like I don't know how to do all this stuff i walk out to the mic and um everybody's looking like what's he doing i sit at the piano i say "Now I don't really know how to play the piano but I heard when you sit close to one you just garner the information like through osmosis." And that's when the reason you hear me at the beginning playing the chords is not to sound creative i'm trying to tell my hands what keys to hit because I don't actually know what the keys are when I'm doing this thing I was just like "All right Acho hit a G chord hit a A chord hit a E chord." Um and that's how that ended up happening so that was one of those moments like "We're going to go for it if you fall flat on your face you fall flat on your face." But I would suggest it turned into one of the most beautiful moments of the show and it was and after that you had a really interesting comment you said "I've never felt more free than while singing Independence Day." So here you were doing something that completely put yourself out there completely uncomfortable yet you felt free explain that dichotomy it's a really interesting dichotomy i think because it caused her joy it gave me freedom and I think that was the the gem of beauty within that moment is I didn't play that for me i knew I could fail i knew I could miss a note i knew I could I could be off pitch off key but I said "If you can get Martina to bask in the glory of a moment it's worth it." And I believe as a host your job is to curate an environment of happiness and of joy and I felt free because she was finding joy in that creation and it was it was a beautiful moment to this day Martine and I are still cool um I'm working on a song and so I went to Nashville about three weeks ago and took Martine out to dinner her and her husband and and and relationships and bonds or friendships are curated through moments like that and you're not just cozing up to her so you can be a background singer to get a Grammy are you no never to check that off that all right now you said in in one of your books you said your career is what you're paid for but your calling is what you're made for and the uh you also said your calling is your calling it's not a conference call when you when you think about your journey when you think about your journey how defined is it sounds like it's just uh my journey completely undefined i do not define the steps I want to walk in i just I just I just look up and see where God leads me and I walk in that direction i I'm open um the reason I said your career is what you're paid for and your calling is what you're made for is because I believe uncomfortable conversations was my calling i never wanted it to be my career i I didn't want to talk about race like that's not fun let's wake up today and talk about race no um it was my calling and and I I read a quote "If you have the ability to do something and you can do it for the greater good of society and you can do it better than those around you you would be morally irresponsible not to do it." I'm going to say that again because I think that applies to many people in here if you have the ability to do something and it's for the greater good of society and you can do it better than those around you you would be morally irresponsible not to do it i felt like I would have been morally irresponsible not to do uncomfortable conversations the reason I said your calling is your calling is not a conference call before I ever did uncomfortable conversations another true story i'm walking into the studio my phone vibrates in my left hand i'm opening the door with my right my dear friend had text me "Hey Emanuel I don't think this uncomfortable conversations thing is a good idea i don't think you should do it." I said "I'm just gonna go the way God leads if you have a better idea let me know." I put it away um my calling was uncomfortable conversations it wasn't theirs your calling on your life is yours so if you feel the need to uh become an entrepreneur and leave that occupation or or get into that relationship leave that relationship leave that school get into that school leave that business get into that business it's your calling nobody else was called it wasn't a conference call so you can't let somebody who didn't hear what you heard dictate how you move because they didn't hear what you heard that's why I suggest your calling is your calling it was It's not a conference call that's great that's great so that leads me to a concept that you talk about i I read both of the books The Conversation with a Black Man and Uncomfortable Conversation with a Jew and in both of those books you talk about allyship which is actually getting people on your team right that aren't naturally wouldn't naturally think about being on your team and you talk about the difference between true allyship and optical allyship um so how do you do that if you if we're supposed to be focused on our calling yeah right now you want me to jump into your wagon so I can be part of that with the with where the allyship is so important how do we accomplish that well first what in the world is allyship right i tell people all the time I have yet to be on one march i've never gone on a march i've never painted a sign instead of going outside I went inside i went into a studio um what is allyship i'll define it in story form after the first episode of Uncomfortable Conversations that I shot like Ken said it was nine minutes or so before I ever released it I wanted to put music behind it if any of y'all have been to any sort of church or some sort of forms of worship anytime you put subtle music behind something it gets a lot more impactful and so I wanted to put music behind it but where in the world was I going to find emotional music so here's what I did do not tell on me this is a private space and it's safe what I did was this i stole music from the internet now listen people I didn't think I was stealing it because I could find it if I can find it it's not stealing it so I stole music from the internet and I put it behind my YouTube video the first episode of Uncomfortable Conversations ends up getting seen by how many people the problem after I posted it YouTube put up a big red X and it said copyright error uh sound infringement again how am I infringing it it was there for the taking so um after that first episode I reached out to one of my news director friends in in in in Austin and I said "Hey I need music to put behind future episodes." He sent me a complete catalog of music I could put behind uncomfortable conversations what is allyship find a need and fill it just find a need and fill it i didn't ask my friend to to to paint a sign for me i didn't find a need for me it was a need for someone else allyship it might be marching with them it might be helping paint a sign for them it might be speaking on their behalf it might be babysitting their kids while they go do X Y or Z find a need and fill it when I did uncomfortable conversations I financed it all myself the white studio space I'm running the studio the videographers I'm paying for the videographers so I financed it all myself before Oprah came involved after the when I was shooting the first episode the owner of the theater true story she overheard my conversation and rehearsing it and she said "Hey Emanuel can I talk to you for a moment?" I said "Of course." Ken she said "Manuel I love what you're standing for as long as you're using the studio for uncomfortable conversations you can use it for free." That's allyship find a need and fill it they at that point in time the person who gave me the music the person who lended me here lent me her studio space had no idea the episodes would be seen by a hundred million people collectively by now had no idea an Emmy would happen had no idea 300,000 people would buy a book they were just being allies so how can you be an ally while simultaneously moving towards your calling find a need in society and fill that need and you've also said that justice will not be served until those that are unaffected are as outraged as those that are affected now technically I didn't say that martin Luther King said that i just quoted you quoted it you're right i quoted it um uh yeah I I quoted it because that might be one of the greatest words uttered uh be so often we want to fight for justice but we can't fight for justice for ourselves the only way that justice is served is if I Emanuel am unaffected but Ken is affected and I fight with and for him if Ken is unaffected I am affected and he fights with and for me justice won't be served I don't believe until those that are unaffected are as outraged as those that are affected and sometimes you have to Yeah that you can clap for that and sometimes can you have in order to be affected sometimes you have to get proximal to somebody feel their pain what's making you cry what's making you hurt what's making your heart break there were so many issues that were occurring over the last four or five and six years not even necessarily race related gender related sex related country related all these things and in order for justice to be served those that are unaffected have to find a way to be as outraged is those that are affected and you say we need to sit with the discomfort right people need and if we can invent it we can uninvent it i want to talk to you about this book which I read and it's a really good book thank you um about three weeks ago it got banned by the library at the US Naval Academy um that doesn't want necessarily to sit with the discomfort of a book that just is pretty factual in the way uh it uh articulates the issues of the day how did that make you feel um sad it made me feel sad i mean I'll tell you why um in March of 2023 I could not talk for two weeks and the reason I couldn't talk for two weeks was because I had to have surgery on my vocal cords and the reason I had to have surgery on my vocal cords was because of this book recording the audio version for this book public speaking for this book Zoom calls for this book i couldn't talk for two weeks after surgery because um because of this book and now you're telling me that this book is going to be banned by the the Naval Academy public library a book that by no means promotes division it promotes healing a book that is trying to educate our homes educate our schools educate our businesses educate our leaders but I realize Ken you can silence a page but you can't silence a person you can mute a sentence you can you can delete a sentence but like you can't delete the people you know and so it made me sad my book is banned in parts of Florida too honestly uh it is it's crazy what'd you do to Florida that's what I'm trying to figure out um but what can you do i'm not going to stop speaking i'm on the stage you know what I mean so we're not going to stop speaking we'll just keep moving forward good for you and in the in the uh uncomfortable conversation with the Jew other than this one here um the uh you you you said "Blessed are the peacemakers not the peacekeepers." The peacemakers in order to make peace you have to go out and find the war which I thought was interesting because are you add are you saying we got to go we got to get out there we got to get out there and and put yourself out there to really see what's going on does that mean getting into the protest getting into that empathetic situation with your with your community for clarity again the first half of that I didn't say it jesus said it but I did quote it i did quote it i did quote I did you're right it was your favorite scripture quote you are right the other half I did say okay and don't be mad at me guy those are my words okay you just kind of gave them to me um you did attribute it unlike the music that you stole off the internet that one you attributed um I I think this I think one of the biggest dilemmas in society is that we misinterpreted you could suggest it's that verse or we misinterpreted that saying we think it says blessed are the peacekeepers but it says blessed are the peacemakers and that small difference has major implications in society in order to keep the peace you can just ignore something in order to keep the peace you can just turn your closed eyes to something but in order to make peace you have to find the hurting you have to find the brokenhearted you have to find the distressed you have to find the oppressed you have to find the depressed and you have to make peace and in order to do that you have to go find war and so keeping peace and making peace are two vastly different things and that's why I suggest it's not blessed are the person who keeps the peace but blessed is the person who makes the peace but how do I make peace i got to go find who's hurting and help them out and so that's my suggestion in that book it's like find the hurting and heal okay and so you have a unique perspective that is awesome because um in your perspective in with both the uncomfortable conversations with a black man and a Jew what were the what of those the most surprising common ground that you've discovered in those in both of those um situations the the uh the difficulties in the from the black perspective and the Jewish perspective great question um great question there is you can be well-intended and poorly executed i'll start by telling on myself then I'll share a story that actually has to do with somebody in the audience oh one of my favorite stories so educational let me tell on myself first i was interviewing a chief disability officer for a Fortune 500 company if I said the company y'all would all know the name and the person was deaf and in preparing for this interview Ken true story I was like "Okay Emanuel you're good with your words let's introduce her." you know uh please allow me to introduce you to the hearing different no that's not going to work that's not going to work please allow me to introduce you to to the hearing unique because I I didn't want to say deaf i don't know for some reason I didn't want to say deaf and after I introduced her I forget what I ultimately said she said Emanuel your introduction made me cringe i said why she said because you only focused on the disc and not the ability and the word disability i was trying to be kind i was trying to be helpful i was well intended i was poorly executed i feel like oftent times those that are trying to be allies whether men are trying to be allies to women whatever the case may be whether it's the white community trying to be allies to the black community a non-Jewish community trying to be allies to the Jewish community you're well intended you're poorly executed i'm going to share this story um one of my close friends um they're in the audience uh their their daughter this be at the time like young young maybe two years old beautiful black baby girl and we were having a cookout in one of my dear friends house my dear white friend's house was a true story and my friend her daughter his daughter and her daughter were climbing up this table and one of my dear white friends looks at the baby and she says oh my gosh she's such a little monkey now mind you can't call a black baby a monkey but to white people a little baby being little monkey is just a sign of like climbing up a table climbing up something but black people we get called monkeys in school because of our lips we get called monkeys because of historical context uh there's the whole Jim Crow context so many different context and so as soon as she says "Oh my gosh she's such a little monkey." All the black people at the house we start texting each other we start texting each other we start going "Hey so who going to tell her?" I'm like "I'm not going to tell her who going to tell?" "Well Emanuel you invited her over." I said "Whoa I don't know her that well." Like and and and I say that to say this dear white friend of mine still a close friend to this day she did not know that you couldn't call a little black baby little monkey so ultimately I sat her down i said "Hey." So um you can't call and I explained to her the historical context of everything um that I suggest was what I learned in the through line between both of those books there were so many things that I as a black man were ignorant to the Jewish community there were so many things that my friend who I co-wrote the Jewish book were ignorant to to the white community i'll share something very quickly if you want to go over time i don't know Ken but go ahead i'll share something very quickly um we got time there was a there was a confrontation between Jewish people in power right and that was a big piece of tension both in the book and in society oh the Jews have all the power so um my co-riter Noah Tish a Jewish woman and I said "Wait a second Noah when I was drafted into the NFL the owner of that team was a Jewish man i said I was traded to the Philadelphia Eagles where the owner of that team was a Jewish man i said the general manager of that team was a Jewish man i left the Philadelphia Eagles i went to TV my first broadcasting agent was a Jewish woman i left that agent my next broadcasting agent is a Jewish man i said "Jewish people in my life have held the title of owner manager and power and and agent." Owner manager agent and I said "So if I were to say that Jewish people have had power in my life how can that be anti-Semitic?" And she just starts educating me and we start going back and forth and she's like "Well Emanuel historically Hitler used the context of Jewish people having power as a reason to say we need to annihilate the Jews." Okay understood by sharing these dialogues by having these conversations she understood okay Emanuel if I were if you were to say that oh Jewish people have power in your life you don't mean anything offensive by it in the same manner if I were to say X Y and Z I'm not offensive i'm ignorant i do believe that racial or cultural ignorance or racial or or cultural uh um whether it's ignorance or arrogance it can manifest itself as racism but it has to be nipped in the bud in that moment and so that was the biggest synergy I found so now I want to go to to a to a day in your life of of your a day in your life of a podcaster um because you you had did something remarkable in a single day that you recorded a podcast of with an uncomfort uncomfortable conversation with a Jew and that same day with a Palestinian describe that scary um so uncomfortable conversations again I financed it myself oprah came in for the 10 episodes after the first three episodes and then after the first season she was like all right Emanuel you know you can do your thing go on and soar um after I I wrote the book after October 7th in the in the middle of the tension in the Middle East I said okay I want to find a way to lend my platform to those that are hurting because you have uh innocent civilians that are hurting and so I talked to in Los Angeles I interviewed an Israeli woman Noah my co-author but I had to go to uh to to to LA and downtown and shoot that then I had to get in a car drive to San Diego rent my whole team fly them all the way and get them all the way to San Diego and shoot the other episode with the Palestinian woman and actually in doing so because of the person I sat down with um the book fell apart chapter 16 of my book Uncomfortable Conversations with a Jew was titled How This Book Almost Didn't Happen because me and my co-author we got into such a vehement disagreement a sharp disagreement that the book fell apart and we didn't talk for a month the reason I share that transparently is realizing you can disagree take a moment step away but so long as level-headed individuals can come back together for the greater good you can still make change you don't have to agree with everyone on every single thing to this day uncomfortable conversations with a Jew is me pushing back and having a difficult dialogue but we came together for the greater good of the conversation and that was a number three New York Times bestseller i don't say that to say where it fell on the list i say that to say the impact it had in society you're allowed to disagree with individuals on things you do not have to agree on everything but find common ground find the common good and speak to that and meet to that and was it different being the person asking the questions no after the like sixth or seventh episode of uncomfortable conversations I ended up pivoting and I now became the person who was asking the questions instead of answering them and I I pivoted from uncomfortable conversations with a black man to uncomfortable conversations with Emanuel Lacho because I would be walking down LA and people would come up to me "Oh my gosh you're the black man." Okay okay we We got We got to change the title we got to change the title so after like season two if you will I changed the whole thing to uncomfortable conversations with Emanuel because it just makes it a little easier that way a little easier now your show right now on on FS1 the facility is a sports analyst show that has a social justice vent to it what's your objective and and how do you execute my intention is always to change the world it's just a vehicle by which I'm going to do that um I might try to change the world through sports dialogue i might try to change the world through cultural dialogue i might try to change the world through racial dialogue or political dialogue my intention is always to change the world so it's just the what are the means by which you are going to communicate with the masses i like sports do talk it's easy for me i could do a two-hour show right now on any footballer uh uh basketball conversation the Cowboys aren't going to the Super Bowl simple as that um sports show done um so I could I could do that with these but like it's always how can I make an impact how can I make a change the sports show was fun i love I love talking about sports people love sports i think sports are the great unifier just watch the Olympics i went to Paris for the Olympics you wouldn't think there were any issues in the world everybody cheering for their team cheering for their country i also think sports can teach us a lot about life people always say "Hey Emanuel how come in locker rooms there isn't as much tension even though you have people from different races different religions?" I say this because in a locker room you have a common opponent in a locker room when I was playing for the Philadelphia Eagles we knew the opponent was the Cowboys so we'll disregard all of our differences to fight the common opponent the dilemma in society is we don't understand who the common opponent is you have women fighting men men fighting women black fighting white white fighting black the common opponent is hate the common opponent is oppression the common opponent is the oppressor the common opponent is not each other so we have to understand who the common opponent is and collectively wage war against that so I love sports talk it reminds me of that on a daily basis well and that's good because at the Bush Center in the fall our new special exhibit is going to be called United by Sports and it is going to be about the power of sports to bring us together i love that so thank you for setting that plug up for me i really appreciate that that was really No the only dilemma is like where you going to put the Cowboys exhibit cuz they just haven't won nothing yeah well I just We're going to come back to that but your show your show goes up against uh Stephen A smith and he's already a Cowboy hater so you that that that ain't gonna fly touche touche all right so um when are you moving back to Dallas man sorry okay um I usually I'll bail you out i usually ask a question about what advice do you have for your younger self but you're so damn young um what what advice do you have for your older self oh that's You're 34 years old what advice do you have for your 64 year old self i've never been asked that question man thank you for that i love hearing something I've never been asked before what advice do I have for my older self um where are you going to display your Emmy your Tony your Grammy you know I would probably say keep running the race even when you get weary it'll be worth it like that would be like keep running the race even when you get weary like that's that's the advice for my old for my older self cuz now I I get weary a lot you know I people would often ask me can they be like Emanuel aren't you tired you got your sports show you wrote a book you hosted the batch like aren't you tired i said I'm exhausted i said but it's a worthy exhaustion like it's okay to admit you're just tired sometimes like I'm I'm tired i am often tired i flew here here i did my show at 5:00 a.m yesterday in LA then we flew here i recorded my show today i'm catching a a redeye flight out after this i got to LA at midnight i wake up at 5:00 a.m to do my sports show tomorrow in LA like I'm tired like but it's a worthy exhaustion like this conversation on this stage with this beautiful audience it's a worthy exhaustion so that would be the advice well we appreciate that very much now before we finish up with my lightning round I do want to um again thanks thank for endowing the engage series at the Bush Center um the special collaborators tonight Texas Instruments the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas and of course our friends here at SMU um another plug that our engage program uh the next uh event is May 8th which is the annual Laura Bush book club with Amore tolls um we also have in May uh a special new set of paintings by President Bush that'll be up in the uh museum and in September our sports exhibit you can see it all on bushcenter.org to reserve your tickets or become a member so now I'd like to finish up with a lightning round okay um if you were establishing a foundation upon which to build a championship team Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady in his prime my goodness i'll say Brady okay okay um Anthony Davis or Luca oh sorry too soon too too soon i honestly I cried tears from LA okay all right from when that happened all right that was probably too soon all right um Longhorns first and goal from the one late in the semi-final game four QB sneaks or a pitch left really too soon if I If I say what I want to say if I too soon okay um since you're an Eagles fan should the tush should the tush push be re legal or not legal i I do not like the play i don't like the play i don't like the play i don't like the play like I don't like the play shout out to the Eagles for finding a loophole in it but I as a defender I would hate to go up against Oh my goodness okay all right tell me something about yourself I can't find on Google i love that question that's cuz you I stole it from you my man um I love that i love that question what can't you find out unfortunately you can find out a lot about me on Google it's not all true by the way um find you can find out about you on Google um you can't find out on about on I would suggest that the thing that makes me come alive is talking about my faith i think that that you can't find out uh people know I'm a man of faith but talking about my faith makes me come alive um my brother's a golden child you can't find that out on Google um that's that's not googleable um and that's okay that's good yeah that's probably it that's probably all right if civility were a stock would you be long or short ah that's a good question that's a good question that's a good question oh that's a really good question um reframe it though like are we close to civility like re reframe it well do you think civility is going to go up from here or down from here have we seen peak incivility that's a that's a really good question i think it's I think it's like a boomerang okay all right what teacher had the biggest impact on you great it was It wouldn't be teachers it would be coaches it would be co coaches are teachers too um one's here Coach Guer love that man to death my basketball coach um St marks another was I remember a a coach eighth grade teacher said "If you fail to prepare prepare to fail." I'll never forget that i remember my track coach in high school biggest it was all coaches all coaches coaches taught me everything and which leader had the biggest impact on you whether you knew him or from afar you're good i've done this before you're good i can't say one the the the people that have had the biggest impact on my life oprah Winfrey um Bob Iger um M brown um I can't count my family that's a given those I would say those those three those three what do you miss most about Dallas the people man there's nothing like the people good for you there's nothing like the people all right what What are you binge watching right now i just finished a show called Luther it's old um it's super old here's the problem it only only the first two seasons were good there's five seasons don't watch the last three waste of your time um but I I binged that good what book is on your nightstand now several i believe Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell brilliant what you need to know about the people you don't know brilliant um I'll go with that one because that that's brilliant all right one football play that you dream about from any grade level grade school high school college or pro that you'd like to have a doover 2009 we are in the national championship game in California texas is playing Alabama in the Rose Bowl and our quarterback Colt McCoy he gets hit by Marcel Darius and he leaves the game with an arm injury and we leave uh if I could get that play back and we win the natty give me that one back okay give me that all right now one one play of yours from any level that you'd love to see played on Sports Center or FS1 over and over and over and over again honestly the highlight of my life wouldn't have been on the football field it's off of it that's the beautiful thing the thing I'd want to see over and over is when they said "And the Emmy award goes to Emanuel Ao and Comfortable Conversations with the Black Man." My mom was there and we walk on I walk on stage and I give her a kiss on the cheek like replay that the football stuff was cool actually I found a football play that that I wouldn't mind seeing we'll we'll show it pick six fiend say good night to this one ao will take it back touchdown Texas emmanuel the I would have took that one i didn't know what to do to celebrate so I just kept running into the tunnel keenan knows Keenan's here i didn't know what to do i just I just kept running okay all right a How about a sports uh onair call or prediction that you'd like to have back i would say this i don't know if it's true but I'm going to say it i'm never wrong i'm just I'm just too early i'll say that okay um what keeps you up at night h too many things um trying to be great it's like trying to be chasing greatness it's so vexing like okay how do I win the Grammy right we've written the song i got to get this artist on it how do I win the Tony like it's so vexing like that that that I I Yeah that greatness all right what What are you most optimistic about you're such an optimistic guy that's a good question most optimistic most optimistic about We can skip we can come no don't don't skip it don't skip it i'll get you an answer i like to give real answers though i didn't just want to give say something to say something i would say I'm most optimistic about the impact of my next book that that that'll that'll that'll help a lot of people great that'll help a lot of people great and what issue should we be paying more attention to that we aren't paying enough attention to i think it's always I think it's always poverty i think it's always poverty sometimes that breaks my heart you know and and I I'd say myself like because I live in I live in Hollywood like I got a house in the hills like but am I doing enough are we doing enough could I be doing more could I be giving more could I be sacrificing more i I think we've become numb to it in society so I think that and then maybe a better answer social media can be bad for your mental health like it can be so bad for your mental health it can be so bad like so sometimes just make sure you log off and encourage your loved ones to log off pay attention to that pay attention to that right and the uh the theme of our day today was uh the American promise which was the theme of President Bush's first inaugural about unity and overcoming adversity responsibility and service um as a way to strengthen our democracy um how would you advise this crowd to apply those principles personally give me the principles again so I can give you a better answer overcoming adversity yeah responsibility and service uh I I think to I I would say that to whom much is given much is required and obviously everybody in here has been given a lot you've you're all in here you you've been given a lot i can tell by some of these nice suits y'all been given a lot uh everybody in here has been given a lot and so if you've been given a lot then there's a responsibility to do a lot and it's not even that you're doing it out of obligation you're doing it out of creating a better future for the next generation you're doing it out of make sure you leave the world better than you found the world you're doing it out of the responsibility of if I can impact my house I can impact the nation and I can impact the world so that's how I would encourage it you've been given a lot like do a lot empty the tank before you leave this earth like give empty the tank love as much as you can love give as much as you can give educate as much as you can educate like just empty the tank and you say act put it into action in both your books you say people don't come to watch the huddle yeah they come to watch to see what you do once you break the huddle very good so the ending of your of your first book you said ending racism is not a finish line that we will cross it's a road we'll travel and your bio on X says "Follow me to be entertained challenged and encouraged to change the world." Um you are indeed entertaining challenging and changing the world and we appreciate that very much thank you for being here please join me in welcoming thanking Emanuel