hone welcome to the Cod episode 65 I'm John furry with Dave elante Dave good to see you little salute there te salute that's your like the shirt like the Cal shirt awesome at Cal love that Stadium go Bears go be my kid it was beautiful we went up there was nobody there we climbed up to the top of the stadium it was awesome inspiring great great University I get the old go Bears in whenever I wear this shirt even in Manhattan and I I'm like I'm I'm I'm a be dad my daughter went there also when I wear the North Carolina stuff go heels I get that from the allumni I get too in U OFA with po it's like Bear Down know Cal University of bur California Berkeley Cal as they called it's got a huge Alumni network and OB data bricks those guys are there and University of North Carolina the Tarheels they got a huge base too they're all like these quiet deep Alumni network talk about Harvard and these Ivy League schools you know those schools have deep deep capability and and great alumni you know you know it's just great to see so I I like to wear the proud swag but what a great week Dave it's been uh you know summer is coming up we had s through the window of all of our shows um time to retrench take care of some of the business we got supercloud event coming up uh in studio we got a lot of in studio events I just covered ABS public sector Summit now called the DC Summit we did it remotely through our new studio remote capabilities which has been phenomenal been phasing that in over time so shout out to our p Alto and Boston Studio teams who just been absolutely crushing it just more content coming in scaling up the AI with the cubes working great so I feel good I feel refreshed I took I had to sleep for two days straight I was so tired uh but you know that's the life of the cube and event season um but I gotta tell you you know my eyew watch went off like last night I'm sitting there having a cocktail watching the debate and it's like your heart rate's over 100 beats per second it says you're resting I'm like oh like Jesus Christ we're just kept on thinking the debate was a disaster The only positive thing about the debate last night between Biden and Trump was the fact that they were talking about Gulf handicaps I'm like there's no way that Donald Trump's Biden's a six handicap Trump won a national or won his Club Championship it's just these guys are liars uh but Biden really really was looked poor and I think all my all my Democrat friends because I'm an independent um were all like really sour and the CNN was like you could see them so visibly viseral upset and then obiously the headlines change a little bit in the Press because they want to actually go after Trump it's all about stopping Trump and you know Biden is just he's just not there dude like we called him on the quebe before um if you're under the age of 30 you just can't know he's not going to get any votes even if you're under the age of 30 my kids are texting me it's like who's this this is a clown car both of them were terrible and it was really bad you know so talking about U handicaps golf handicaps you know Trump is an epic cheater did there's this book by Rick Riley it's called commander and cheat it's it's hilarious the stuff that Trump pulls he'll like he'll like pick up on a chip in I'm an excellent chipper that's good exactly six foot gimmies right it's but oh it was so bad I you know a lot of people have been calling for a swap and like this may have been the the pushed it over the edge but I heard this morning scaramucci on TV was give a little tidbit which is a little bit disconcerning that you have to within 40 days you have to be in the ballot in Ohio if you're not on the ballot within 40 days you won't be on the ballot so if they're going to swap out Biden for another candidate they got 40 days to get that candidate on the Ohio ballot and Democrats not going to win without Ohio I mean very rare that that happens but it's still a possibility but you got to be on every ballot right and so I don't know is is you know Nome Whitmer uh no no way Joe mansion's going to be accepted by the farle and it was just it was sad to see but you know everybody's like oh we're in shock why are you in shock they should have seen this coming I mean they had their heads in the surprise Anderson he had a cold it was just it was bad OH Anderson Cooper went after Camala Harris big time in after the post debate spin room I saw that I saw that she was trying to defend it it was bad he he was visibly upset I mean the Democrats like I don't know what they they were what they were feeding them the all the lines he's not he's just losing it and so you know if you're a foreign country you look at this it's just like if you're a young person or a foreign country say this is our our government I predict this over a decade ago that we'd have a revolution inside our company and our country and and you know I think it's time for the new generation you're starting to see the vivex of the world come out on the Republican side but no one from the Democrat side has risen up yet as like hey you know what it's time for younger you know diversity on the generational side generational diversity is the buzzword everyone's talking about and there's a new generation coming up and they have to take control of the whole new whole new issues in government how government's using technology and this kind of came up in the DC summer with AWS J AI is changing public private Partnerships Health Care is impacted because now you got government mandated stuff and then you got private sector so we are in a major transformation on government and you know I'm just going to continue to bang my drum which is anti-political stuff but Mo mostly on the technology side which is technology is Chang in society including governments and the government has to figure this out old cronyism old Beltway Bandits um kind of old school stuff is Antiquated and outdated it's got to go the Acuity of our people at an office is has to be a test maybe they just have to drop the limits of age you can't be over the age of 80 to be and be president I think they should really have someone who's got their mental faculties together and saying look at you got to have your together now I like the golf handicap things if you can play golf and get a six handicap I'm I'm voting for you so any any president who's got a six handicap either either they're super smart or not doing their job because to get a six handicap you got to play a lot wait who has a six handicap that's what Biden said he claimed he said during he said during when I was a VP I was down to a six handicap that's like shooting 78 Dave or 82 on like tough courses I mean Scott McNeil good I me you we had an old joke in in when I was in in um working for the big companies you had a good golf game that means you weren't doing your job because you were out PR playing Pat mcgoverin used to say I'm terrible at golf I have no time that was like a signal to us all don't be golfing on my time but you know on the age thing when I think Kennedy was JFK was like 43 maybe when he became president and even Nixon on their first debate I think Nixon was in his 40s and when Nixon became president he was in his mid-50s yeah so we're talking about you know decades older it's just both of these guys too old but Trump mopped them up yesterday I mean and and you know it helped that they everybody's saying this just repeating all this stuff but it helped that it muted his mic because he couldn't misbehave and he just came across as the far more cogent and and presidential not that Trump is anything close to presidential but they kind of did him a favor by muting him because it made him look presidential because he couldn't talk um and Biden certainly was in a bad spot because it focused all his attention on he had to say and he couldn't put words and sentences together so you split screen and he had his mouth a gape the whole time the problem here's here's the other problem is that the media is so biased okay and this is a great example you know I've been on the rant about media old school media has got to change and we're digital Weber we're on the other side of that we're modern we're open we're all about getting information and having People Source information AI is only going to help that um but the media game will be changed by we'll can talk about that in another in after but CNN was so overthe toop protective of the fact that they were so biased because both those uh moderators have been on the record essentially slamming Trump and so what they over they over rotated the fact of being too good they were actually really good moderators in the sense that they kept it going they got all the issues out there they didn't try to look biased in fact and when they should have done is called them out on their lies so again the question is what is the role of the moderator in these debates because on one hand if you look at the list of lies between both parties Trump's list was massive okay and he still told a lot of lies or embellished lie embellish same thing unfactual Biden also was unfactual so it's just that Trump tipped the scales and the lies Biden was lying too so you know like he's got support from the police and border patrol which we all know he doesn't okay so what this means is is that media has created so much of a of a polarization in Anti-Trust is that people watching are like I don't know who to trust and this is why I think the old school media's got to go because now you have multiple sources you have multiple ways to get data and I think you're going to see the new generation the GameStop generation I call it we're going to Source things differently and I think this is going to change change the game a little bit but you the moderate what's the role of a debate it wasn't really a debate it was basically like you know 90 minutes of two people talking about each talk about golf this just ridiculous so I just you know talk about trust it was disc Discover it was discouraging George Carlin had it right just don't everything the government says just don't believe them just ignore it because they're lying to you and nobody trusts the government anymore but but the interesting thing now is okay so Trump is a clear front runner you know how I feel about Trump not a fan yeah you know January 6th you know the whole thing of of stopping the peaceful transfer of power irrespective of the policies we can debate that all day long but it's just you know how I feel but if he's for front runner Lena khah out right new attorney general there's going to be a whole different what about taxes you know what does that actually mean for the economy yeah um and the stock market so that's kind of interesting and I say they got 40 days to figure out a successor I saw a bunch of folks on TV today kind of Defending Biden ah you know he just had a bad race kind of thing no he was dead like oh boy he was dead in a Ral I mean it was bad it was bad look I mean the bottom line is is that the people are going to look for these new candidates and and politics has to get more candidates um the Democratic party should have seen this coming they should have had a candidate ready to go and the the Republicans have no other alternative and Trump with his base um is so strong that he just rolled into with his numbers and Biden's just collapsing around him and Biden didn't even defend anything he was just he just couldn't even compete he literally could not fight back C it's crazy I mean I mean but people will crawl through glass for Trump you know the middle part of the country they absolutely love this guy and I understand why I just the funny thing is I really like a lot of people who love Trump they're like good friends of mine I don't like Trump but I I love a lot of the people who like him and I can understand why they're pissed well the thing that I'm finding out I you know I've got four kids they're all under the age of 30s and they're all adults now young adults and others I talk to and I get a try to get a pulse and take the temperature there's a real shift towards centrism being in the center more and I think this whole leftwing rightwing thing there's a far extremes has almost taken it too far they almost bunkered in on their positions and their ideology and their Dogma I think the general people just want to want good oldfashioned capitalism and they want you know um socially liberal policies and conservative fiscal stability and you know when you have inflation and and and stuff hits your pocketbook and businesses are being taxed I mean I'm Pro business so I'm from the party of business I believe that the government should stay out of the way a small business let them grow and tax the big business that that are making the bank not just put business into one category and a lot of people don't understand that like we're self-funded business we're growing and the more we get tax the less we can hire right so I think tax is a huge problem again I've been a big fan of the old Steve Forbes is flat tax 18% for everybody credit card filing send it in you make billions of dollars you pay 18% you make 20 grand you pay 18% you just simple math no loopholes and make that it and done so again I think a society is going to rebel I think no one's going to put up with another four years if Trump gets elected it's going to be disaster if Biden gets elected it's basically a bunch of people behind the scenes pulling strings and the question is who would be pulling those strings Cala Harris Obama Oprah who there Warren but I mean okay so so but it looks like these this is what we're getting the Dems are digging their heels in looks like Joe's not going to step down he will lose to Trump I'm telling you right now there no way he wins so let's assume that he's gonna lose to Trump so lenina Khan is out so maybe m&a is back so that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing uh China policy you know more tariffs you know and and so what does that mean it could mean actually a stronger dollar but you know you got more protectionism I'm generally not in favor of of tariffs yeah um and so now Tech what does it mean for Tech what does it mean for crypto yeah it's it's gonna be weird social media because he was he was anti- Amazon the problem with Trump is he shows that vendettas and he's not pragmatic so you how in the AI world we talk about hallucinations and guard rails you put put guard rails around Trump if he gets elected instead of trying to fight him and take him down just just neuter him put some guard rails in place let him do his let him build the wall let him lower taxes let him do some things and then four years count the minutes and then reset but he'll it'll flip-flop on a lot of his his policies as well a lot of his stances he flipflop on crypto you know I don't know you heard him on on abortion last night he's like talking about killing babies I don't know where he got that that's like absurd nobody's talking about doing I mean first of roie wage should just be never be touched with leave it the way it is keep it like what it is if there's state issues I mean I like the idea of the founding fathers push stuff to the states that's the way it was supposed to be and some states will have anti-abortion some will be pro-abortion so let people travel and we see companies that are are funding people to travel to States so you the issue there is that the people who lose the ones with the low income brackets and again this is the problem you don't touch roie weight it's a third rail screw the rightwing hardcore right wings you deal with it you don't want people to have abortions just educate them put some church into them give them some give them education tell them you know put more money donate money into causes that will help people so I think Roy Wade should be is Untouchable in my mind it should be foundational and cemented no one should touch with that in my opinion the fact that that my daughters have less rights than my my mother uh in terms of their choice is kind of absurd just don't my daughters versus their grandmother had my grandmother had more rights than my daughters just accept it and move on guys whoever's listening from Trump's campaign or whatever all right let's get let's move on to the tech because the politics my heart rate going up my watch go I'm literally did you watch the whole thing I I I honestly honestly my heart my heart rate was going I'm like oh this is a train wreck oh my God this is so bad I was like Lally my watch went off alarm your heart baits and it says you're resting oh I'm gonna drop dead who do I call what's that what's that thing I've fallen and I can't get up kind of thing you know so it was just bad this just shows you how people I'm sure people were having the same reaction CNN right after the debate everybody was like blown out of their minds they were like like they got hit by a train they were like Blown Away they visibly visibly upset uh it was bad and that was the reaction around around the world so we'll see how we'll see how it goes all right so D let's get into some of the quick news I want to D into it so we had the VMware broadcom laid out on the cube this week the 5.2 of VCF VMware Cloud Foundation this is the big bet for broadcom so we want to get into discuss that Google Gemini 1.5 as 1 million token context window that's a big was a big news from the CEO today from Google Cloud Amazon's market cap top two trillion they're a trillion behind the other two I still can't believe Amazon's at two trillion I think they could get to three if if if Nvidia and Microsoft are at three I think Amazon could get to three so you know I'm not a stock adviser so don't take my advice but I love them at three three trillion um Amazon's working on a new AI chat box SP to compete with open AI That's the rumor which is based on Olympus which we talked about we'll see what that is perplexity a company we've been you know falling all over and loving the company is under heat because they've been apparently scraping and Wired Magazine Forbes been calling them out um and now Amazon apparently is investigating perplexity they saying it's not a problem um but you know look at perplexity they should scrape it's open web let's keep the web open and uh if robots. text and the Publishers don't like it get a good business bus model get around it you know they're griping about the don't look here don't look here look away well they actually they actually adverti the pages on robot is that a legal thing John what what is it what is the command that that tells Bots not to search not to crawl it's not it's not illegal right it's what's it called what's it called there's no follow on the links and your robot. Tex lays out the pages so is it a is it the law that you can't do that it's a matter of Ethics inter it's internet culture we used to have this back in the whip don't frame websites it's like not cool but we're at a time now where first of all with perplexity if you go to perplexity and put silicon angle.com into the search query they hit our site and start crawling that's their that's their position um and that's what's going on there and I think they should do it instead the next Google people love Google findes a lot of referral traffic so the websites like borbs and others have to refigure out their media so that they could create and Community models around people discovering stuff out all on the Hinterlands and end points of the web where it's perplexity Google LinkedIn in you know you push content out that's gets discovered and they should navigate to a place it used to be a website now they're applications so I think this is a GameChanger I think perplexity is a is a is a marker in time that that's going to show the how the general of AI is changing user um Discovery expectations around how to find stuff and connect with people and content so I love perplexity it's my number one it's it's by far you know well I use I I use chat GPT a lot too and several others but those are my my one and two what what I like about is it's neural network based so when you're in a query you're in a neural pathway so to speak and so you can do followon questions so you're already in the in the zone if you was you're down the lane you're in a path so it clusters all this content around more graph and neural neural data and that's the new model that I love and I think that's going to be less of just quering some unstructured database and and getting stuff on keyb this makes fact it makes all these llms make fact checking so much easier you still got to really you know think through and you got to have some knowledge some tribal knowledge but it just makes it much much easier than search can I just go back to to Gemini at a million token context window didn't they announce that at Google next in April so this what is this just a ga announcement what is that well Thomas Curry and had posted this on Twitter that's the whole point on Twitter and Linkedin they announced it and essential yeah they did so I'm pretty sure they announced it at Google next so this must just be they shipping it now or it's actually working oh it's available now yeah it's it's available G it's a ga announcement right okay yeah and and it's it's got a bigger context window so this is more data can go in that's the whole point the um uh other quick news I want to get out before we we get start digging into this is that China's bite Dan is working with broadcom to develop Advanced AI chips by reuter and source that news I bring that up because you and I had a conversation um when Nvidia had their GTC conference we also went to the broadcom financial conf conference and broadcom did not disclose who their third or fourth big partner was third third and for c for custom custom chips yeah custom silicon you took a chance and said hey my sources and my data is pointing to B dance so hey another another win for the cube research yeah we I think we call we nailed that one So Meta well Google we know was number one they've had a relationship with Google for 10 years meta we suspected we pretty much know was number two they've had a relationship there for four or five years of course Hawk Tan's on the board of meta and then we said it's got to be bite dance that was our number one pick it could have been some others but we said No it's it's we think it's bite dance and remember one of the analysts these analysts are sharp one of them asked are there restrictions to selling to China and Charlie kaas said no there aren't any restrictions selling this this Asic or whatever we're developing to China I don't even think he said maybe he said at this time he might have said at this time so that was like okay we tried to the analyst tried to tease out you know was it bite dance and um and now I guess that's that's confirmed several months later but that's big they've got three huge durable custom silicon customers that are essentially their backdoor competition to Nvidia they compete with Nvidia in a lot of different ways particularly in networking and and nicks and so forth um but now it's even like in you know a or sort of whether it's tpus or or or GPU like capabilities they're sort of back door to competing with Nvidia and that's it's like the best back door I'd rather be them than having to try to compete headon with Invidia like AMD and Intel are trying to do it's gonna be fun to watch what that happens it's a huge installed base obviously it's going to be massive oh speaking The Meta you brought up Meta Meta a report came out from Bloomberg that Apple was in talks to great metas models into their Ai and they didn't because of privacy reasons and quality reasons so the remember at the worldwide developer conference Apple had they announced the deal with open AI so you know we always compare the the iPhone versus Android and um John tro at Madrona brought this up months ago maybe a year ago on the cube there's the AI there's the Android approach open and then there's the proprietary kind of the iPhone approach if you look at the iPhone doing a deal with open air kind of makes sense one it's a it's a bigger model and more baked product-wise but it's also proprietary where meta is open and some say SP quite spammy so that was interesting news um we'll see what that means if a meta can bring it down to the device level you might maybe they do the deal with Android or other devices but Apple certainly aligning open AI huge win for Sam ultman team there so but so but remember too Met's open source license uh has a little fine print in it it's not licensed under Apache 2.0 which basically says anybody can do anything it it essentially says something to the effect of if you're a hyperscaler we can charge you we can come back and and negotiate right so it's not an Apache 2.0 license like Unity for example when matay you know op sourced it they open sourced it under Apache 2.0 that's a huge deal but there are restrictions and that's why some of the you know contacts that we've talked to who are building their own llms internally like big banks are saying no we don't want to use open source because we don't trust because they could pull the rug out from under us so I wonder if that's part of was part of the negotiation with apple well a lot of action going on obviously um I mentioned the Amazon's coming out with a chip chip chip Mania is happening um everywhere so we'll see if if it becomes a bubble but certainly we need we need faster and better power management on these chips the um the thing about this week on VMware Dave I want to let dig in some of the bigger topics so this week we broadcasted broadcom's VMware division had this VCF VMware Cloud Foundation 5.2 news and they kind of cleared the air we had six videos we did that launch we did in-depth interviews we now have about 50 videos from that bunch of stories you guys did a bunch of research at the cube research team this is the big bet by broadcom on the on the acquisition they had about a thousand to 2000 big customers and that this product talks to they got hundreds of thousands of users and customers and probably say what 35,000 total real user of customers besides these but but the core the core base is about say 2,000 1 to 2,000 that could qualify for this this is their mother's chip product and the integration is a top priority they cleaned up Partnerships oems hyperscalers cloud service providers and resellers they're going to change the economics in the channel this is a radical ecosystem Focus radical but just a simplified clear version it's not the old organic VMware it's the new VMware um and so I I took away from that that welcome to VMware 2.0 under broadcom things are simpler you pay more but you get more hopefully and and maybe Jensen's law kicks in the more you spend the more you save so I got some I got some for our our Cube now of course we it was sponsored so it was was paid for so we you know we didn't like like slim but I think the the round table we did with Kristoff and Rob stretche and you and me I we were being honest the grief that I got was you know of course from VMware competitors lack of innovation lack of modernization um which you know okay I I I think the the key here is it's a new business model yeah um and it's like you said they're simplifying the the the pricing they're raising pricing and they've done the math I'm sure but the key to me is Will broadcom and I believe they will apply their sort of same model to VMware that they have done to ca that they've done in the semiconductor business to me it's the same philosophy narrow the base narrow narrow the focus on on customers spend the money on R&D keep people in yeah well first of all and make it more attractive for them to stay than to leave and I'm getting all these inbounds text and emails and so forth on no this company's leaving this company's leaving that company's leaving I know big banks that have left already I I would like to dig into that more yeah we'll dig into it we'll dig into it and I don't see it right so first all I'm just saying others have said oh no they've moved their mission critical stuff okay yeah okay and you look into it it's like well it was some data warehouse or data Mart that they moved it was mission critical data Mart so I I I I've learned from floyer over the years you just got to question this stuff when it comes to migrations you really got to dig in look at the workload how it's tied to the business processes and really ask the hard questions on the migrations because I just don't I don't think people these big customers who are running Mission critical workloads are going to be able to easily move off VMware and I think it's actually going to be a better business case for them to stay if if broadcom makes the investments in R&D first of all I mean well let's get to the um what's going to roll how it's going to roll out under broadcom because remember this is a different VMware um and so the people who are complaining that it depends on who you talk to this like different vectors of complaints and either sour grapes or just lack of awareness okay we've been covering VMware since the cube started 14 years ago so we know a lot about VMware I'm in Palo ala that's where the headquarters was that's where a lot of the employees were we've seen the growth from Paul marit's days even through broadcom and we know a lot about broadcom so I think we can speak with certainty when we say that when we do interview the senior executive we kind of know what's going on so here's what I would say to those the critics yes and no yes there's complaints but it depends VMware has grown to be a behemoth relative to the hypervisor and virtualization they also did a lot of Acquisitions and built new stuff and have a a tech stack so they they they got a lot of stuff and and the question I want to ask you and this is rhetorical really where has VMware been Innovative besides Acquisitions okay I honest question besides but outside of vsphere what have they done that's been Innovative they've done a few moves I've seen some things there but they've had more missteps and stuff they've tried but the growth of the company organically just was phenomenal I think about 5 years ago maybe they they kind of got stuck too blow they had to realize wow we didn't really have a lot of innovation but they got everything and if and what I what I'm taking away from the broadcom and my assessment is and I'll stand by this happy debate with anyone from whoever's complaining wants to talk about Innovation because we we know what that looks like VMware is not innovating right now they have to integrate and what and they have everything they have the customers and if you're a customer and you don't qualify for this VCF frameware Cloud Foundation you're not going to use it so you either leave or you use the V Weare Foundation beere Foundation product or just go somewhere else yeah be you know just use the cloud use Amazon get off get off maintenance and but I think a lot of those crap locations are going to go I've said that I don't I don't dispute that at all those are easy to migrate they're low-risk if don't get them get out of there that would be my advice to customers don't if you don't need that full sweep why would you pay the increase pricing get out there's so many there's plent of options you can go to Red Hat you can go to new tanic you can go to Microsoft hyperv you can do KVM IBM get out of there get no problem but for your core stuff be careful well well here's the thing there and I asked them by the way if you look at the videos I'll I'll find the clip and I'll publish it we I asked them specifically you're betting the ran that a company in your 1,000 or 2,000 targets are going to be V uh private Cloud candidates meaning fully operational Cloud operations that means on in public cloud on premises and Edge meaning you're running applications with kubernetes full-blown Cloud scale to prepare for gener of AI every single company that has any chops or any scale that's did that's on the digital transformation has to build the infrastructure to set the up the Run for the generative AI tsunami of applications there will be a Cambrian explosion of applications on generative AI clearly and that's both retrofitted applications with gender Ai and net new applications so every company has to do this we've been repor on the cube all year on this so the question is will it be VMware and that's what they're saying they're saying look at we're going to go for that VCF is essentially the platform where you have one license you pay a lot but you got a lot of things in there to build that environment and the license portability gives them the ability to move it to the cloud so wherever you want to go you do it it actually is a sound strategy the bet is Will Will there'll be demand for VMware will that Tech stack be VMware and that's simply it that's that's going on they cleaned up their Channel they cleaned up their OEM Partnerships they call it now the broadcom advantage program so they've done the work now was it elegant and do they get style points absolutely not I mean they definitely not they don't get style points you know uh they've made some a lot of mistakes I've heard so many things I I won't even get into it but let me just tell you some blunders of Epic Proportions have happened in the past eight months they're recognizing it saying hey we're moving forward Chris actually said that in the cube so you know you can throw Rotten Tomatoes at at VMware broadcom for the missteps and the transition bumps but you know they got to get to you know Level Playing Field and just start again and that's what they've done and and they said and they've been very clear and like you said hwk Tan's been clear about the acquisition moves but from a business strategy VCF is targeting one to 2,000 of the top companies in the world I'd say more like 700 and probably only a 100 are actually thinking about this right now in Earnest that you know and that have full Cloud operations and and we know that people aren't aren't just repatriating they're saying I got public Cloud we got data processing in there I use higher level services but I need to also set up my on premises now GPU Farms Andor other compute and inference to run those private apps with my data and I got edge with it's Office Buildings or devices so this is happening so the question is will it be VMware that's the question we have to look at to your point we have to get in and start unpacking what people why people are leaving if they are and two the cost of ownership I heard from One customer at an event this past two months I won't say what event because it'll tell tipped away the customer big customer not full VCF Target but enough that is sizable estate uh Tech stack and Technology estate they said quote it's a fiveyear it's a fiveyear migration Dave five years how do you migrate five years you can't it's everything's changing by the day even even a 24mon time frame is very tight so that means the cost of ownership and switching costs come into play so what no one really has done yet haven't seen it and we're digging into it the KE research is what is the real switching cost to get off VMware what is the real cost of ownership besides it and license cost of not capturing gender of AI so there a whole another level of complexity it makes the snowflake data bricks argument we had about who bundles what a like like kinderg trivial you were at Red Hat Summit right yep so Allied Bank supposedly there a couple of banks I know I know Allied Bank is one of the ones that's been put forth as they've migrated their their entire VMware estate I've dug into that it's not true they still running some VM workloads from what I've uncovered um but they have they have migrated off their Mainframe which okay is not an easy thing to do so it's probably harder to migrate off a cobal Mainframe than it is the software Mainframe on VMware but there are a lot of similarities but there's no cobal on the ladder but to your point a 5-year migration you're going to have to freeze the applications unhook the business processes rehook everything up it's just migrations are a tricky thing um and should be avoided at all cost unless there is such a compelling business case which you know we'll see like you said we're digging into it all right what else is going on Amazon um obviously the market cap top the two trillion we're going to be I love this I love this topic everybody was calling for Jesse's head you know and we were like you out of your mind this guy's one of the most competent when you when you do interviews in the cube you really get a good sense as to who the top players are the tech athletes and he's top of the top I mean pleas and Andy's a f I'm a fan of Andy jasse many people might might understand him but he gets that he's very pragmatic and he understands business and scale but yeah but still my point about the two trillion not just an accomplishment da doesn't validate the fact that Amazon still got the muscle it's a trillion behind Microsoft all right so I mean that to me is mind-blowing how Microsoft just completely slingshotted ahead in value from Amazon so Microsoft got a better business yeah and so so again so again the question is is there room on Amazon to go to three trillion because with jasse at the helm he's only a couple years in aw still throwing up most of the profits Azure not even as strong of a cloud as AWS but Amazon's got the retail baggage can Amazon get the cash flow and generate a business model as good as Microsoft that's I mean I mean you know a software business model with you know marginal economics that go to zero with volume is I think generally a better business model than reselling every good in the world but I mean different businesses I mean Amazon's retail business is phenomenal best customer service I I read the other day that they're yesterday or today that they're actually doing direct shipping uh in certain parts of China uh from the manufacturer which is really interesting because that's alibaba's model and that's some of the other competitors model and Amazon's of course invested all these Warehouse we we remember we put this forth As A disruption scenario for Amazon years ago like during covid and so they're responding to that I me it's just amazing the the the vectors the levers that they can turn what they're doing an advertising Thursday Night Football has been a home run and not to mention AWS You know despite some of the challenges that AWS has it's a fantastic business but I will say Microsoft's A Better Business just from a business business model standpoint and a financial standpoint because it's software open Ai and open AI gave him a shot on the arm too so that was home run all right well you you got the they don't necessarily make better products by the way but it's a great business so let me ask you about the Microsoft that is let me ask you a question about the valuations of companies you got Nvidia and apple two companies that have been soaring lately other analysts have been saying oh don't buy apple and since that you know a couple months ago you know when Apple di it was was it it was nvidia's not a monopoly yeah and don't buy apple and it's like since then nvidia's of course you know added a trillion dollars to its market cap and Apple's you know rebounded you know the big question is is you know is Vidia sustainable people are comparing it to Cisco Cisco had multiples in in dot that were absurd Nvidia nvidia's got the same earnings multiple as it had you know two years ago a year ago I mean it's not like it's in that sense it's not like it's overvalued it's just insane the the numbers but you know it's it's actually pretty reasonable for by those metrics now if it doesn't continue to perform and it doesn't continue to throw off the cash well that's that's an issue but from a multiple standpoint on earnings you would say that it's actually pretty reasonable the math works yeah yeah it's it's I tell you I mean with the mo conversation around Nvidia obviously I think you know the stock took a little bit of a haircut mainly because I think the momentum's dropping a little bit but again it was inside or selling too right that probably scared a lot of a lot of employees moved some stock that was reported people sell for a lot of reasons they only buy for one as uh Peter Lynch used to say yeah exactly and so so so now you got The Tech Guys happening AWS has got the event coming up DC Summit just went down there and that highlights the public sector side of it but they changed the name from public sector Summit to DC Summit mainly because of the commercial opportunities and the blending of the government so you got the cloud guys trying to get Revenue Google's you know making some moves with Gemini what's your what's your research showing on the Amazon versus um Azure versus Google Oracle you oracle's making noise now too so what's your take on the cloud play What's the research show the research shows there's no question that Google's strategy to Target Enterprise and use its AI to you know get the you sometimes we say camel's nose Under the Tent is working Google Google is gaining in Enterprise AI there's no question about it they're gaining on Microsoft uh when measured in terms of customer penetration uh you're seeing that gap between I said g Microsoft I meant Amazon there that gap between Amazon and Google is definitely compressing and I think it's a function of Google has they got their own in-house they got third-party uh uh llms and and relationships um they've got the stack and it's working they've got you know great data platform and so you know having said that broadly across the cloud Amazon continues to do well they continue to to grow at you know whatever 17 18% Google's growing at around the same clip as Azure um and they should be growing a lot faster given their their size but in that segment of AI they're definitely you know closing the Gap uh on Amazon now now the only thing is what I what I've been trying to get to and I don't really have the data yet is is is bedrock uh because Amazon has a different model Amazon's basically reselling a lot of other folks llms even though I know they're working you know through Olympus and this new Greek god I forget what it's called Uh the thing you mentioned up top um so I don't have great data yet on Bedrock trying to get that so a lot of for instance anthropics doing great a lot of the anthropic momentum could be through bedrock and likely is so it's somewhat maybe negatively skews and penalizes the Amazon but nonetheless Google's got strong strong momentum in in AI all right well let me ask you a question what you think about the um the the the agent technology you just B did a breaking analysis on this the next data platform is a big super cloud event we're having in August we got some amazing people teed up for that got Microsoft we got AWS got tons of U end user practitioners coming in um that sets the table this whole agent piece beyond the chatbot is becoming quite the conversation and um it's p i mean chat Bots is kind of like the entry level AI from before gen AI but you start to see movement now where the use cases in the Enterprise and for people in general is augmenting the human role Andor having agent technology meaning help automate tasks um what's P and what's real what are you seeing well I think that geni has really not it's caught the world on it's set the world on fire but it hasn't set the Enterprise Roi on fire so you think about what's happening with Gen in the Enterprise it's code assist which is awesome it's writing better marketing content which is great it's good you know improving customer service to an extent great but it hasn't been you know massive Roi and it's just it's this request and response model and the the amazing the magic of it is you're doing it in natural language very cool we can build graphics and awesome but it's not really throwing off you know huge net presentes values we think the next wave of AI uses gen AI but it's this thing this buzzword you've probably heard called agentic AI where agents are acting in concert and they're working with other agents to actually perform not just a specific task but a series of tasks to develop a plan and present plans you know it's got human supervision but but but some degree of autonomy to go out make a plan interact with other agents understand the dependencies on those other agents to harmonize the data um and then make present a plan back to uh a professional and so we see these essentially these digital factories being built where workflows are much more highly automated that there's digital representations of the business people places and things U that allow you to you know cut a lot of waste that's in business today and we think that's the next wave of of of AI we call you know it's called we don't call we didn't coin the term agentic AI as an agents and um we think it's coming with there are a lot of examples the RPA vendors are doing it uh people are building this on top of snowflakes obviously uh Snowflake and data bricks obviously Microsoft is doing this uh there's other examples a really good example is Salesforce on the MU soft side of the business doing some some really fascinating things with integration and supply chain uh especially around customer 360 and the Salesforce data Cloud so all these little pockets that are emerging that I think uh uh really hold a lot of promise and George Gilbert and I did uh a breaking analysis on this today George actually I think had it's a tremendous contribution basically saying look it's the consumer stuff is not as interesting it's the Enterprise stuff the consumer stuff you use the analogy it's like mellin sailing off the edge of the ocean you know where the ship is going and it really doesn't know where it's going whereas the Enterprise you can make a you can make a goal you can set a goal you have a plan you know where you know where the grocery store is you know where the library is and you're setting the ship in that direction and it doesn't end up a derel it actually meets its destination so this is kind of the next wave that we see coming and we think it's going to become uh a mainstream topic I think I think it also feeds the path to AGI right so super intelligence agents are the first step towards that I think that's going to be the very big key thing um I think the agent thing is real I mean I think you look at all the private AI conversations um three years ago Chris wolf at VMware um brought it up to Ragu who was the leading technologist at VMware and by the way VMware had a lot of technical people I said earlier they didn't really innovate but they did a lot of technical great Engineers great fantastic engineers very engineering by the way broadcom's an engineering company too they just make chips AB so I think there is a little Synergy on that orientation towards Innovation but broadcom is much more hardcore in making money face it thing the old was like a country club DA they had great cafeteria it's like very Google like almost like HP the old HP meets Google very not academic but like very employee friendly they win awards every year the new VMware is make the numbers and you get here's more millions in stock so it's a wholly different culture um and scale and with broadcom is much lower scale than than say VMware on at least on the enterprise software side so outside of that cultural ma U mismatch um which is getting solved they have the same culture and making money just want to come back just to put a put a a pin on uh the gentic AI think of llms becoming L large language models become large action models and so that's something that we are paying attention to and really starting to dig into research side so a company called adep AI out of San Francisco just just um put out a release on their blog that their Founders were hired by Amazon to do AGI and they're not buying the company but the founders are leaving so it's a red flag for me because Founders and companies have to be around otherwise they'll die so I'm going to dig into this but apparently Amazon hired the two Founders okay um it's GNA be very interesting yeah and then also Amazon's licensing their agent technology okay it's multimod models for automating Enterprise workloads okay so they got an agent stack so um head of engineering will take over as the CEO and the two Founders are moving on to uh Amazon so it's kind of an Acu hire meets business deal I've never seen this before okay at this level of of hype and reality you got the hot company Adept AI in San Francisco with a great opportunity and the two Founders join Amazon and the company licens the technology to Amazon for a deal so they do a business deal and Technology deal and the founders go work there so why not just do an acquisition I don't get it so that's weird so either they were forced out and they land at Amazon and cut a deal but they've already been in talks with other companies to be be bought Microsoft and others so it's a very interesting power Dynamic I got to tell you I've never SE never seen that before so again you know I hate to see when investors kind of force Founders out because it happened to me um they were talk to they were talking Microsoft a week ago that was reported on Fortune um maybe they're shopping themselves around they don't have a buyer and they thought get the founders out or why would a Founders leave their company to go work for Amazon I make what does that make any sense to you well they lost the board maybe right power board well that's happened to Sam Oldman too very very very interesting thing um what else is going on um you you but you you you sparked something in my head talking about Amazon agents one of the other examples we used was amazon.com not Amazon web services amazon.com sorry to keep going back to agentic AI but they have a sales and operations planning using a collection of agents and the reason I want to bring this up is because we see this becoming a horizontal it's like our Uber for the Enterprise this is like this example for the common Enterprise so they forecast 400 million items weekly and they they forecast the Distribution Center requirements five years into the future so an agent does long-term planning it's going to figure out how much Distribution Center capacity needs to be built and where another agent has to configure the layout of each Distribution Center yet another one figures out how much of each skew to order for each supplier for the next delivery cycle all these agents working in concert and the thing is they're not just doing a single task with a start and a finished they're actually optimizing multiple tasks what's that book that we love about the system you know you know what I'm talking about um where you're not just pushing deck chairs around but you're looking at an entire system and the machines are smart enough and the agents understand the interdependencies and are and are building plans and optimizing plans with human supervision so this is a really powerful example in a supply chain with amazon.com you know the greatest retail e-commerce company in the world and and the vision is that that gets technology becomes a horizontal stack that many many more companies can take advantage of that and a simplified manner yeah I mean the thing about the change is going on is amazing I want to the the AI think is I was just talking with someone on the phone today about how in every inflection point it's the Simplicity the ease of use intuitive nature of it of the of the processor application and then you got to reduce the step it takes so agents will do that and so I think that's what I look for and that's changing the user experiences so I think the whole classic how people consume information is radically changed and I think there's new things we had don't even know yet like voice activation push notifications there's new infrastructure capabilities in the cloud that will make change how ux is done no longer we doing the websites they're all applications so I think I think this tsunami of gener AI applications is coming and the old school classic user experience design and UI design is going to be radically uplifted and changed flipped upside down and whoever builds that will build a new brand I got someone on linkedin's like I I I love the queue but they're they're age they're too old the young kids don't know who John and Dave are and I'm like I'm like you'd be surprised all the content we put out there I mean we we're spraying it everywhere so they probably do know us through our content but we don't actually have that kind of like uh brand recognition to you know do the vanity thing like the all all-in podcast they're very focused on consumer and trying to win the crowd and they do politics and whatnot but I think what what what he's saying is that the new generation of people are building new apps and the old Bogies like us put call us old the people are all back in still in the game so this idea that people are leaving the game is of tech is ridiculous so this is why I love this Confluence of the generation gaps and I think generational diversity I said earlier is a huge issue and I think when you look at generational diversity um this is a real opportunity for our kids da the genz to come in and really rise up through the ranks of companies because if you look at like even people you see on the news covering the debate to VCS to real people of power if you're a smart gen Z person you could rise right up because what's happening is is that a lot of the folks who built business over the past few decades and Cycles don't have the Gen Z understanding because those applications for that audience those requirements will be completely different so not only diversity in terms of male female in terms of people who use the product which is 50% male 50% female beyond that kind of gender diversity because you got to figure in features for all the genders you got generational age diversity and I see my two gen for Gen Z folks like my kids like they're just their their view on things so they could rise right to the top and you're starting to see that now in companies Venture firms politics media generational diversity will be a Hot Topic and I'm telling you right now this is going to be a really really big deal and U I'm totally all over it because you know we are smart you and I but there's things that we're not going to catch that a gen Z person will catch little things tweaks experience memes all the stuff that goes on around how people consume content how people view the world um and I think that's that's where a lot of these politics miss them boat in the back to the debate thing again so I'm done with my little rant there but I always get confused on the generations so I get I'm looking it up here generation Alpha is 12 and under now okay gener gen Z is 12 to 27 so that's I guess that's our kids all right I hate the name already Alpha first of all that's a typical exerc I know right Millennials are like 28 to to early 40s Gen X is like mid 40s to late 50s boomers are in the 60s sorry Boomers two there's two Boomers generation Jones I didn't ever do this there's Boomer 2 which is 60 to 69 and there's Boomer one which is 70 to 78 then there postwar which is 79 to 96 six and then there World War II which is a hundo I never knew that I thought Gen X was younger but there you go I'm I'm Tech I'm I'm a gen xer Dave I'm on the bubble 865 is when ier I'm a boomer I'm a late late Boomer I mean basically I mean if you're in 65 you're essentially on the back end of the boomer generation that's who me but I actually grew up in that xer you know I love the memes about gen X's apparently we're the generation that you know let were neglected rode bikes without helmets did stupid stuff drank from garden hoses you know I know I was talking about that the other day some workers at my house and my wife you know likes to take care of him she's like I'm sorry I'm not there I can't like bring them out some water something they use the hose you know we used to use the hose as kid like you can't use the garden hose anymore I think I think too dirty I think we have a mix of Millennials and gen Z's on our team I think we got a few millennials Millennials are lazy from what what people say what do you think about that Dave Millennials are lazy it depends right I mean that's that's the meme that goes around I laugh at that because it's like no they work smarter yeah I mean that's their answer to me it's like we're not lazy we just we just work smarter have a higher I have a millennial on the bubble I guess a gin Z or Millennial my my kids work their ass off and so you know I think it's more it's it's about generalization yeah I didn't know generation Jones that's weird right that's news news to me I I know generation Jones I mean let me ask a followup you're in the neural network pathway Dave and perplexity I am I mean it's just it made this beautiful table for me it was amazing yeah I mean so generation Jones refers to microgeneration or cohort born between 54 and 65 so you are in the bubble fallowing between Baby Boomers and Gen X origin of the term was coined by cultural commentator Jonathan pontel to describe those born in the lahav this makes no sense to me yeah because they baby boomer generation remember the Baby Bo why generation Jones the 50s was the baby boom that's when you know Prosperity hit post depression um that was a generational shift so they called them baby boomers because of the baby boom Boomers for short I do I do know I do know that because all my older oh keep generation Jones is It's associated with the monarchy having several interesting keeping up with the Joneses right the competitive nature of the generation and then in anity jonesing remember jonesing I got a Basketball Jones remember that the Boomers killed that that's the reason why we're in all this politics probably because the Boomers they killed everything for us all the people below them they're get some comments on that the first the first first round of Boomers right well they had it made right because if they if you bought like real estate in the early 80s you know he got the beautiful house on the water because it was affordable and all right J so what are you gonna do this uh summer we got the summer coming up take a couple weeks vacation what are you gonna do yeah you know gonna get down the cape some um you mostly going to work going to catch up because we've been on the road for a while and then I was looking at the calendar today you know we got we got events coming up we got yeah we got the the super studio in in third week of July we got super cloud 7 coming up the last week of July a AWS Summit New York City oh yeah gosh what am I talking about July 10th we got AWS Summit Jun is doing a doing a super Studio at their building three four we got like four events in July and by the way supercloud 7 the next data platform if you got a point of view on that you know we're doing Outreach now and line up guess if you're in the paloalto area and you're awesome let us know because and you can talk to governance and all the next data platform and all the cool stuff that's going on there around Ai and gen Ai and agentic AI we want you in studio live uh or we're doing some pre-record jamak deani is headlining again uh I don't know if you knew that I don't know if I told you that lined her up did not know she's awesome and then and then we have we have dip from Microsoft's coming on dipd is is amazing then is Oracle Cloud world the first week of September we got F uh uh Falcon crowd strikes event the second week of September I mean it's just starting all over again and then August we got a black hat so we got VMware explore I'm goingon to be at the New York Stock Exchange on J uh July 10th so if anyone's in town in New York I know New York's a ghost town in the summer but if you're in New York 9th and 10th oh then in mid August we got don't we have another event in the New York Stock Exchange that we're doing August can't announce that yet because we don't have we don't have the we can't announce that yet okay August working on that so it's like we're we're going to do a super summer we're super Studio in the New York Stock Exchange about four hours of interviews have a great time there um that that we're also doing a digital twin um uh it set of interviews around the event that the we did in Silicon Valley with all the top Capital Market players all the power players in capital markets funding m&a um all the IPO track which we're now getting a lot into with our coverage um all those people going to be doing some interviews with me and some really top CEOs and Founders who are just kicking ass a lot more experts coming in today what do the I love about what's going on with this market right now with our business is that our expert network of friends and and colleagues is just the collaboration I think we're seeing the beginnings of what is lining up in this neural network World we're in where social networking is now becoming physical face-to-face Blended digital a digital twin of relationships a digital twin of experiences can be leveraged digitally and what happens is interesting because our we're pulling in more experts so our commentary gets better our our societal um ability to produce data gets better our ability to collect information gets better so a flywheel is developing around clustering so we're going to just document more and more interviews you see a lot more interviews from the cube if you're listening and you want to reach out hit me up on on any of the channels on on social media um but yeah me too I forgot to say for got to tell we're doing we're doing the MIT it's not MIT anymore but I'll throw it out there used to be the MIT CDO IQ we can't say MIT anymore but even though I just said MIT a lot of MIT DNA so it's the CDO IQ in Cambridge uh third week of July is it at m at MIT it's not anymore they they they they didn't want the using the MIT brand anymore because the guys who run the conference have monetized it and they're like oh we're MIT we we only we can monetize our pledges not you and so it was one of those things but it's a great conference all cdos Sanji mohan's coming out he's to come on the cube we have we have Chief data officers we have um we have public sector people uh we got regulated industry data quality people uh we got the new CEO of Tamer coming on that stone Breakers company uh Eli's going to be there we're going to have a two days of Wal to- wall coverage at at CDO IQ it's just nonstop it's going to be incredible yeah yeah and and what research you working on I'm working on the next data platform got my own little take on that I'm working on a um a comprehensive kind of like a gen AI um Enterprise piece um working on a lot of Amazon the future of Amazon and Amazon web services uh working on a bunch of stories there and also working on the the the Confluence between um business value of technology and disruptive deep Tech uh Evolution meaning meaning the impact of deep Tech impacting business because it's interesting you know working with the New York Stock Exchange and the New York crowd it's interesting to me because I'm from the East Coast originally I I kind of see that bias in the past where people from the East Coast come out to cover slicken Valley to understand what's going on actually Silicon Valley is now pervasive in other places so and technology is ubiquitous so the technology deep Tech is impacting stock prices more than it's ever been before so not just tech companies everybody's a tech company so you look at all the businesses that are moving fast and growing the fastest they are in essence tech companies Dave they're cloud cloud operations software and data and so they're becoming their own tech companies so I think the Facebooks of the world these old quote tech tech companies that people are thrown under the bus right now will probably morph away and maybe get regulat or die who knows but you know Twitter's turning into essentially you know a news Outlet in terms of its own thing it's pretty biased with Elon Facebook is Facebook Instagram's Instagram WhatsApp WhatsApp that's just all one company linkedin's the Wald Garden so I think you're going to see more things emerge it's going to be interesting to see Dave I gotta say I'm that's a it's a unique it's one of my pet projects you know the Confluence of physical relationships I love these pet projects John I I I have one that I'm working on now with my friends at ETR we're doing a flash survey um on we haven't got we haven't I think it's going to happen but I'll tell you anyway if it doesn't happen don't hold me to it but it's I think it's going to happen coming out of data bricks and snowflakes uh events again they every year they change the narrative they change the world not not flip in a flip-flop way but they evolve they they they accelerate the these Trends and it's kind of like a pingpong match and so the last one was as you know we were we were there um the whole notion of open governance and so we are taking the it this is both a philosophical and a technical debate if you will and so gauging we're going at we're we're going to talk to small end you know 50 or so customers that are both Snowflake and datab Bricks customers and identify their thinking around Open Table formats how they're thinking about governing these governing those formats are they thinking about uh using uh Polaris which is the open source version of the technical metadata from Snowflake and then using Horizon which is their proprietary role B based access control and other you know heavy governance or are they looking toward Unity uh which is is going to potentially uh merge Iceberg and Delta and with uniform is their philosophy more toward bring any engine to any data Alig GOI or is it going to be more you know you're going to have a safer environment inside a snowflake uh and so we're going to gauge the sentiment of the leading practitioners in that base and then present it at supercloud 7 awesome uh we got so much going on if you're listening love love to get some feedback on the podcast give us um any kind of tips you think we like want to hear more of um silken angle.com is where all the traffic is that's what the main news stories are the cube. net is the catalog of the content we're also looking at our sites you going start to see a lot more gener AI with the cube that's coming in out next year and again the analyst piece uh analyst Le content go to Silicon angle.com look for those featured stories uh and on Enterprise and emerging Tech Dave great to see you have a great vacation we're gonna do the podcast while you're on vacation next Friday of course absolutely 100% what's your backdrop the ocean or what's uh what's going to be the backdrop I'll be a blurred probably a blurred I'm not set up really well the mess this game cover the mess up all right thanks for thanks for coming on Dave have a great vacation see you next time thanks see you John