Transcript for:
Overview of Pipeline Assessment Webcast

hello everyone this is Heidi Tierney with the water environment Federation I want to welcome each of you to the pipeline assessment and certification program webcast before we begin I would like to quickly review a few Logistics the PDF PowerPoint presentations are now available for downloading at West's website this link was included in the go to webinar reminder emails an hour before the webcast and will be included in the follow-up emails in an hour after the webcast is ended these reminder emails also included a link for the webcast professional development hour instruction for those eligible to receive these training credits there are two PD credits available for this webcast you will need to complete the evaluation form to receive the PD certificate your feedback on this webcast is important and helps identify future webcast topics that are timely and helpful to you please follow the pdh instructions and check with your state accreditation Agency on how to receive this training credit there during this webcast while you cannot speak directly to the the presenters you will have an opportunity to submit questions by typing your specific question into the go to webinar pane that appears on the right hand side of your computer screen today's moderator Ted deota will be accumulating questions and direct them to presenters we will be recording this webcast the webcast recording link will be available on the webcast website within 48 hours after the event if you have any additional questions after the webcast is ended please email webcast with an S we.org I would like to thank Ted for moderating today webcast Ted deota is the executive director at Nasco Ted thanks Heidi first we want to thank the sponsors of this webcast Jack deaney companies and T4 spatial these companies have both been very involved in pacp and you'll have the opportunity to hear more about them at the end of the webcast I want to take a few minutes to introduce Nasco n pacp as well as the efforts that we've taken uh over the past two years to update it nasco's mission for almost 40 years has been to set industry standards for the assessment and Rehabilitation of underground infrastructure and to ensure the continued acceptance and growth of French lless Technologies the Nasco pipeline assessment certification program was established in 2002 to provide standardization and consistency to the way we evaluate our underground infrastructure for those of us that were around at that time there was no standardized protocol in the US for collection and management of data collected from internal pipeline inspection so collection system owners either created their own individual systems or they just allowed each operator to collect data using no standard at all since 2002 Nasco certified over two over 20,000 pacp users and P has now been adapted for use with other pipe systems such as storm water and Dam and Levy pipe systems version 6.0 which is the version that's that's currently out was released in 2010 and we've tracked comments on the program since that release for the past two years we've had over 50 webinar meetings conference calls including over 65 industry experts to review the entire program Page by page with emphasis on quality photos industry needs current available Technologies and training the anasco cost for the two-day pacp program will be increased uh from $750 to $800 macp lacp will increase from 150 to 175 and recertification will increase $25 based on whether you're a member or non-member manual costs are $110 whether ordered uh for recertification or just as a replacement we're currently on track to start training for pacp 7.0 on May 1st 2015 now from that point on no version 6.0 training or manuals will be available before we begin I want to encourage you to ask questions I'll be monitoring your questions and we'll have time between the presentations actually in the middle and at the end to present some of the questions to the panel and answer them online some of the key points in this webcast include pacp and the regulatory requirements presented by Gina Snider pacp 7.0 for pipelines presented by Luis Leon updates to macp and lacp presented by lri Perkins and updates to the Tendencies presented by Jim Jim Harris now we do have an excellent group of speakers today and again Gina Snider from EPA region one Luis Leon of CDM Smith lri Perkins of Wright Pierce and Jim Harris of Harris analysis our first presenter will be Gina Snyder Gina's a PE environmental engineer with the Environmental Protection Agency region one in New England Gina is an environmental engineer in the assistance and pollution prevention office at EPA New England and in her 25 plus years at EPA Gina's worked with municipalities state governments trade groups businesses and educational institutions in our current position at EPA region one Gina works on capacity management operations and maintenance seom programs for Wastewater one thing that really stands out in Gina's bio is the training she provides on Clean Water Act permit issues energy management and asset management in Wastewater drinking water and storm water facilities that that's he trains operators engineering Consultants Municipal staff and and Community officials in six of the New England states Gina hey good afternoon this presentation is not going forward um click there you go yeah I got it uh it well it's focused on uh compliance component of condition assessment pipeline manhole or lateral assessments I do want to point out that proceeding with condition assessment can much better prepare a system for other issues such as the impacts of climate change and addressing them so sewer collection systems are aging and we find in New England that some systems are very old having been built with technology such as shown in this historic sore example we nearly always find some systems in our classes that have pipes over a hundred years old but even in other areas of the country many many systems which were put in after World War II in the 40s and 50s they're now approaching 70 years old so this a leads to the question we ask our classes if a collection system has pipes that are about to fail or cause blockages and no one knows about it is it a problem and maybe back in the day it might not have been after all sewers were built to overflow two centuries ago but now whether a combined system like that in the photo I just showed or a separate sanitary system overflows are targeted for compliance and enforcement and this is because around the turn of the past Century EPA was working on a rule to address the finding at the number of sanitary sore overflows was were increasing some might remember the seom rule that was withdrawn but EPA reported to Congress in 2004 on these issues the health issues water quality issues and many programs developed by States and health departments around the country to address overflows so obviously it's not just an issue of compliance if you have polluted water running down the street if your system has an overflow you've got a cleanup on your hands but sometimes potential toxins and Beyond compliance issues other people are affected by overflows these issues can impact homeowners you can have high insurance claims if you aren't keeping the sewage in the pipes so EPA developed preved maintenance Outreach which is also connected to our permits in in New England we ask our classes which which of these shows an overflow pretty easy to categorize the one on the left definitely an overflow and this is not a recommended method for preventing it but what about the one on the right if there's a blockage in the mainline causing the problem then the one on the right is sanitary store overflow too so now we come to condition assessments whether your sores are 10 years old or 100 their condition will fall somewhere on this Decay curve and running to failure is not a good option so let's take a minute to look at that Asset Management model using the Decay curve you want to know the condition of your pipes and manholes your assets and where you are on that failure Curve will change over time condition grading with pacp mapc lapc is going to tell you where you are and you want to use that to keep your assets at some minimum standard then we'll be talking later about the addition of asset management to the certification program which we've been very excited to see so you want to use the assessment to track the condition bring those assets up to standard and determine when you need renewal the organized numeric grading approach of pacp mapc and uh lateral assessment programs ideally suited to help track this information over time because when you don't keep the sewage in the pipes with or without a permit it is a violation this is from the Clean Water Act and the code of federal regulations regarding facilities historically NPD permits focused on treatment plant effluent but New England permits and many more state permits are directing attention to the rest of the facilities all the structures that are used um to convey this Wastewater to the treatment plant all facilities must be properly operated and maintained that was a general duty Clause that now it's being covered with specific permit requirements so the term we used I saided earlier is seom capacity management operations and maintenance this is what I was talking about as response to the increasing number of overflows the Seamon program will reduce overflows and also make sure response is faster and more efficient because seom also addresses capacity issues it can reduce the impact of inflow and infiltration on treatment plant capacity the developed permit requirements as did some of the states with General topics that include mapping and assessment and there's a lot more information on our website that addresses the preventive maintenance plan so I'll talk about in a minute but having a plan will help organize and prioritize the work you want to have done on your system particularly the use of pacp can address the permit requirement to assess capacity and condition just real quickly here's the table of contents on our website there's templates on our website the link is right there um you'll see there's an introduction in details um the toolbox website has this and um even when you're doing preventive maintenance you still are going to need to prepare for overflows responding to them there's there's an appendix with editable response procedures um but what I wanted to zero in on was the uh th assessment work setting up the plan which is required in the permit this organizes the program so it sets that'ss the system up for conducting the assessment whether it be pacp MAAC or if you want to add in lateral assessment the lapc this helps determine where to target maintenance and Rehabilitation work and it also informs resource needs and budgets the staff and resources that are required by the permit and both this is both onm and capital planning budgets permit is the permit is not envisioning a static plan as the system performs assessments the program needs to keep up repairs Replacements these will result in changes to maintenance and renewal schedules in programs with the real focus on assessment of the system all the issues listed on this slide can uh lead to dry weather overflows so that's part of the question we ask do you have any of these issues do you know whether you have any of these issues and how serious they might be again if you focus on the rules discharge their violation this is um State example from the main discharge elimination permit and a focus on the o&m again so you can imagine how things like roots in the system can cause blockages and backups the system doesn't know if it has these problems if it doesn't take a look and the grading and coding details in the pp will help organize and prioritize the followup add a little grease to the roots and you have a real problem so coding in these trouble spots using the maintenance code in the pipeline assessment programs track condition and prioritize maintenance also gives you a history over time which helps in making those decisions that you need to be making you can have a brand new pipe or be at the far end of the spectrum for structural issues but on the right the right hand side picture here is so far gone that a spot repair won't fix it this collapse will have to be dug up if an assessment program had identified this earlier it's possible it could have been repaired with less expense you won't have these ISS ues you can just look for these pictures they're all all you're seeing more and more of these uh news articles come up if you add infiltration wet weather flow to the dry weather discharge problems you have even more problems infiltration those leaky leaky pipes pacp will help code the extent of this issue for the system manager to follow up those leaky pipes can aggravate maintenance problems we add infiltration to Fat soils and grease blockages and you end up with an overflow using smoke testing in association with your assessment can provide evidence of leaky pipes and infiltration but it doesn't indicate how severe the problem is since sewer laterals can be some of the leakiest pipes in a system using lateral assessment that Lori will talk about more provides the real data that you need fixing the issue before it comes a problem is really at the top of the agenda for EPA our website links to some communities out there doing a lot to address the problem of leaky laterals and I should probably note that many of these programs come from enforcement actions where the problem wasn't caught and fixed in time to avoid a violation so here I have a link to a document on our toolbox website which consolidates some of the research done by epa's office of research and development on lateral programs so back to the question it's not okay to have an overflow so why perform a condition assessment your buried infrastructure is valuable preserve it it will help meet onm and minimize costs and avoid unexpected costs of repairing a pipe after it fails it's an investment manage your risks avoid emergencies and possible fines and use the assessment to prioritize repair needs and infrastructure replacement projects and plan for the future because you know what's really risky not having information condition assessment will give you the information you need to make an informed decision tapc maap lapc programs they can really help keep a system in compliance so now I'll turn it back to Ted for our next speaker thanks Tina our next presenters uh the next three presenters are all pacp certified trainers and and all three Have Been instrumental on the update of pacp just a note I I saw some of the questions come up about um the quality of the audio so if the speakers can just speak kind of loud and clearly and um you know that would be helpful so our next presenter will be Luis Leon to discuss pacp 7.0 specifically uh for pipelines Mr Leon has over 29 years of experience in us and international engineering and management in the areas of Master planning feasibility studies modeling Asset Management design including plan specs and estimate permitting and construction management of infrastructure projects projects include Wastewater collection systems water distribution facilities storm drainage transportation systems and Land Development he has particular expertise in pipeline design and Rehabilitation using Innovative applications of Transit Technologies as well as NPD permit compliance Mr Leon is also participating in the development of the bar Asset Management Institute International also known as bamy Asset Management certification program he currently serves as Vice chair of the West National Collection system committee and he's a pacp trainer he's also a very recently certified to train the inspector training certification program ipcp for the inspection of cured and place pipe Louie thank you Ted thank you very much for that uh great introduction and good afternoon to everyone we're going to be talking about the new pacp version 7.0 and and what type of extensive review it went through we'll talk some of the about some of the technical updates that were made some of the new items that were included also into the manual and the training and the certification and then we'll talk about the educational benefits um how the format also has been uh changed a little bit or updated a little bit to make it more user friendly and also about some of the new appendices that you'll be hearing about the review team that was organized and put together to to review pacp was a very large team of course Nasco was heading the overall team and we had people from uh infrastructure condition assessment committee software vendors Asset Management committee man ration committee and lateral committee to this we uh of course added pipe manufacturers and contractors Consultants municipalities and suppliers so it it turned out to be a very large group that came to you know many meetings and discussions and and and finally a consensus on what the U updates were going to be to 7.0 so there were over 60 collection system professionals that review the entire manual and collectively raise the bar on PA on the pacp industry standards this is really an unprecedent the review of of this document in this training program and that's why you know we feel very confident that it's going to be well accepted by many many many of the users or you know 100% of the users with respect to the technical updates you know it's it's the new manual is you're going to see that it's more user friendly and informative it describes some of the new and supplemental technologies that are out there and we'll talk a little bit more about those and it also includes backgrounds to some of the technical issues such as deterioration mechanisms um the stages of sewer collaps and and how the sewer collapse can happen so you know much better descriptions and discussions on that also the technical form the header form uh it's it's more robust more informative there's no data lost at all from the old 6.0.1 to the new version 7 there's also new um 10 new custom fields that can be used for user specific needs we know that there's many municipalities uh out there that would like to use their own custom fields and this will give them the uh the advantage to do that and also allows for more information to exist on the existing database there's also with respect to the header form nine redefined fields and some of new options there's new material options um some of the weather conditions were updated and and and clarified also and then we added a consequence of failure um data field and of course you know the data is now or all the data the databases are going to be up being updated by all the the different vendors that sell the pacp certified software there are also five new Fields you know for example reviewed by and certificate number this is somebody else outside of um the field crew is actually reviewing the data and and that person is is also pacp certified uh new FS for codings vertical datum lining methods and the inspection technology ol use whether it was CCTV uh or something like the Panorama or or different types of new technologies that are out there there are also addition uh of modifiers to the infiltration codes and this is to to um show if the infiltration is happening at the barrel uh at a lateral or a connection or a joint yeah in order to clarify better clarify where the infiltration is occurring so that you know a manager can actually know where those points are if they want to decide to to apply certain Technologies to stop infiltration also with respect to laterals uh and and of course Lori will be talking more about macp and lacp but if someone is doing an inp an pacp inspection if any defect can be seen in the lateral it is coded as defective um and and this is something that it's going to be very helpful also in case of some of those municipalities that own a portion of the Lal for example they're going to be able to make some decisions as to if they want to maintain or if they want to rehabilitate some of those lateral connections the tap code modifiers were also prioritized and additional observations can be included in the remarks such as you know cap defective or intruding or capped um active or aband andon so those were more prioritized with respect to actual condition grades also uh in the dams and levies portion you know the the US Corb Engineers um actually adopted pacp for their dams and Levy inspections so there were additional condition grades that were added for those inspections some of the new items you know of course the supplement the new supplemental Technologies or new technologies were added to the head of the form and to the database if they were using laser profiling or laser dive measurement tools uh or sonar in the case that the you know a user is trying to measure the quantity of siment that is in a pipeline um sidewall scanning uh zoom camera technology we know that some users uh some vales may be using Zoom cameras for some initial inspections um and pipe penetrating radar because you know PPR is becoming more and more um used out there when you're trying to locate not only voids beyond the pipe to a certain extent again in the the tether form you know the 10 optional custom Fields there's a total of 54 fields that also include quality control fields and GIS Fields so that now the database can be more complete in in linkable to GIS um in in the municipality for example there's also redefined fields and new options like I mentioned before with regards to new materials and and weather and consequence of failure and of course the consequence of failure would be used by you know somebody for example in the engineering department in the new Fields um the the ones that are important are reviewed by and reviewed certificate number and this refers to Quality Control somebody who's executing quality control of those of those videos and the data coding that was inputed by the U operators there's also different coding methods uh the inspection technology use northing and easting or Latin long uh pretty important that that now can be added to the database actual elevation of the you know of the manhole or the ground a coordinate system because it could be a state plane or a different coordinate system and the same with a vertical datm when it refers to you know 1929 or or or later datm and the accuracy of that GPS is it a handheld unit which is you know going to give you plus or minus 3 to 10 meters or is it something that is going to give you much better accuracy um with regards to Quality Assurance also you know we have of course that a survey buy and certificate number that of course a certified user must be present at the inspection site unless coding a pre-existing video so this makes a differentiation between someone who's an operator in the field doing the coding or someone in the office doing the coding the coding um and also doing quality assurance uh with respect to materials you know we and as best of cement and transite pipe were added and also ABS uh pipe there were also major changes in the structural defects and and we'll describe these a little bit more but botling defects were moved to the deform group we also included the use of a small modifier for some of the joint codes for damson levies because this is something that they they're using a lot in their inspections and in their coding systems also added new codes for surface damage um now in some of some of the line feature defects you know it Maps it Maps them better with the new definitions and there's other definition changes and explanations in the manual and also More Sample images this is something that Nasco was working very hard at is getting better quality sample images of uh as many defects as possible in order to make it um easier for the operator to actually look at the manual and and see an image and make sure that it's what they're what they're coding as I mentioned the buckling uh within was moved within the deform group and and this is a actually a a great Improvement because you people were were using it differently in in in different municipalities or different cases so now that is within the Forum group is going to give give us better access to looking at all the deformation in the various types of pipes and various types of Linings with respect to the dams and levies like uh like I said there's now uh a small modifier for the joint codes they they have a small offset if it's up to one pipe wall thickness uh there's also small separated joints or small angular joints that are less than 5% there's new codes for surface damage with respect to surface spoiling of the code um now it's if the coding is damaged or splintered off then you can code that um and in the lining features you know the the some of them were maed the Buckle lining the bulges were mapped to deformations and the pin holes were mapped to the infiltration stains so that you know they're better um grouped into the various defect codes also when uh someone is using sonar for accurate measurement of deposits for example that the amount can be recorded as a percentage of the original diameter or a dimension in the value percentage column up to three decimal points so you know we know that there are uh suar equipment out there in in in programs that can give you fairly accurate estimations uh of of how much sediment or or how much deposits there are in a in a pipe especially on large am pipes are flowing fairly full so that was added to PP um we talked a little bit about the new modifiers for infiltration you know various types of infiltration whether stain weeper dripper Runner or gusher now those modifiers can will tell us if the infiltration runner for example is at the barrel or at a lateral or at a connection or a joint better defining those um crossbows have been a a major issue in the last few years so there was a no a sentence added that cross crossbows ining into sewer lines POS significant hazards and that pacp users and operators should report when they encounter crossbows to the appropriate authorities um you know especially if they see a pipe that could be a gas pipeline can you imagine the consequences of that also in the the tap modifiers were were reordered and the order of priority especially when one one the more more than one modifier can be used so you know we have a t defective or uring cap activity or abandon uh in an order of priority and then a tap can is defective when any defect can be seen inside the lateral so again this is something that would also alert uh the client or the municipality or the operator that a tap is defective even if they don't have a lateral Assessment program with respect to access points when there's other spatial Chambers uh it's not always a special structure that can be an axis structure that is not described elsewhere you know an example is an open cut access point to the pipe sometimes this may be necessary and and they may leave it open that way or just covered somehow catch Basin uh was redefined also as an inlet or an access structure um other access points and miscellaneous features and the pipe uh you know we've all seen some of these where the pipe ends underground without a manhole that was also included and lining change now it allows you to record record coding changes sometimes you'll encounter a pipe that was probably coated with a c tious coating and then uh it was rehabilitated to a certain extent also with the citp for example a tring place pipe so those can be coded separately there are many educational benefits now um to the new program also the new training material will follow the manual much better you it'll be a lot easier to for us trainers and also for the trainees to to go through the training and follow the manual during the training material um major clarification rules for continuing defects is also now in the in the manual with a a very detailed example and it provide this example provides a very clear example for overlapping continuous defects that it really improves and and it will improve the more accurate coding by The Operators we talked about the buling code moved into the the form modifier then the new codes for surface damage also if the surface for sping off the coating or corrosion and tubulation when you start looking at you know inspection of some Force Mains for example or some even gravity lines that are metallic pipes um also Lori and Jim are going to talk more about the the new appendices uh especially spec especially Jim and the the new appendices actually have been improved dramatically to help the field Personnel identify many things such as p materials and other things the format of the manual is more user friendly the new color code charts for headed codes facil will facilitate populating the fields there's a new manhold measure diagram that Lori will talk about that will eliminate second guessing about what components of the manle are being measured for example Jim will also be talking about the risk management append appendix uh and this is brand new and this this this relates more to a little bit more into asset management and and and risk management and defining what the like likelihood of failure is and the consequence consequence of failure and how we can Define risk for a pipeline with that I'd like to thank you for your attention and we would like to turn it over to Ted again yeah thanks Louise um we want to take a few minutes now to take some of the questions we we've uh had a lot of questions come in um and trying to kind of work through all of them one of the kind of continuous questions that we keep getting is are the slides available um and they will be available on www.f.org pacp and there'll be a link um to that in to you know to be able to get to that um but another thing is that actual recordings of this webinar are going to be available on both the wef and the Nasco websit so the we.org and Nasco org um you should be able to get recordings of this uh of this webinar um one of the questions um and I'm I'm gonna hit on some of these questions uh someone says they're due to recertify before May and should wait and there was some related questions about his version 7.0 available to certified users of 6.0 um try to answer the first question when um your certification is good for three years and when that three years expires uh you're no longer certified but you still have a one-year grace period when you can recertify rather than go through the the initial certification procedure uh one of the things about that is if if you're an operator that could be an issue because you're you're truly not certified during that year um if you do get as part of either a certification or recertification if you're certified or recertified uh beginning January 1 of this year 2015 you'll qualify for to get an Unbound Manual of 7.0 uh it's for $10 basically the cost of shipping um for a manual it's going to be Unbound so you'll need to to put it in uh either replace it your existing manual or get a new binder for it but again that's going to be aail ailable and we'll be we'll be making those notifications through the contact information that we get uh for people taking the classes since January 1 you want to make a note of that um and then you know the other question was is version 7.0 available to those certified in 6.0 and in addition to the offer for the manual um pacp recertification again which happens every three years will incorporate the 7.0 changes but Nasco does plan to provide uh 7.0 training for pacp users on our website so as we develop all the training materials for the new uh version that should be available um we're going to make some of that available on the website uh so that all follows um Let me let me uh go through some of the other questions uh there was a question and and um maybe uh Louise uh I can address this you are there any considerations for coding of force Mains well there there has been a little bit now but um the the pressure pipe committee is actually looking into developing more codes for Force main inspections and um as we all know a lot of the defects that that are found in some Force Mains if they're amputed and they can be ctvd uh are pretty similar to some of the ones that we see on other pipes so um but as far as I know the pipe uh the pressure pipe committee is working uh very hard at determining if what else is needed at the same time also awwa has a committee that is looking into um coding and priorization of water lines so we hope that we'll be working together in order to come up with a better standard for that K would you like to add something to that yeah well yeah just to add to that if you uh on the Nasco website if you go into the specification section of the website the uh pressure pipe committee actually did put together a forcan inspection technology summary and they' been they have been working on in that summary they identifi the different inspection technologies that are available and provides a good uh uh kind of Matrix on how to use that but like like Louis said they are looking at you know the coding and how that can apply obviously it's very difficult um for that to apply from a visual perspective in in force Mains but again um they're looking at that as well as you know pressure pipes being being pable water pipes too um question was um trying to I'm sorry I'm trying to keep track of all the questions um the uh when will uh training for um actually when will the Train the question was when will the training be available for 7 0 and when will training for trainers be available um for 7.0 we we plan on training trainers really next month in April as we get closer to getting the um all the training materials we're finalizing things on the manual getting the training materials finalized as we get those things finalized we do plan towards the end of April to start training trainers um with with the training materials what's important is to make sure that the trainers have um you know are familiar with all of the training materials that are out there um Lis I'll I'll direct this one to you also has Nasco taken any consideration into exfiltration with contaminating groundwater and maybe um Gina can touch on that too boy with respect to exfiltration that's that's something that uh you know can be very hard to measure of course but and depending on what type of defect uh you have and where it's located um if I remember correctly some of the coding has been or some of the grading has been changed with regards to the location of some of the defects T um but with regards to measurement of exfiltration that is something that at this point with the ACP cannot be done and and there are some technologies out there that um claim that they can potentially do it but uh you know it could be one of the one of the 10 additional user Fields used for that I can uh add that there's two sort of different programs the EPA addresses and the states address storm water and sanitary sore waste water differently so there are instances where exfiltration from Wastewater pipes has gotten into the um supporting materials you know sometimes the trenches are you know have a subdrain with gravel and the Wastewater has flowed through that and resulted in contamination which has been addressed with enforcement action similarly I believe there's a least one case where somehow that got into the storm drain system and there and so the they are I know at least one case in New England where they're lining because of that because of uh Wastewater getting into the storm water or uh clean water like a stream or something where the outfall is okay um next question and again I'm going to direct this one to Louise what's the distinction between a Connect ction and a lateral well the the lateral itself is after the connection point at to the main so in some instances when the operator pans the camera and tells right in view you views right into the lateral the defect could be right at the connection point between the lateral and the main or beyond that point and that that's where we make the decision yeah that's what I've always trained that the connection is actually that point between the you know that interface between the actual bilateral pipe and the main pipe um couple again kind of I'm going to say administrative kind of kind of questions but will recertification be available online anytime soon um as many of you know we had to take recertification off um because again the recertification is geared to version 6.0 so beginning January 1st of this year we actually uh remove you know took the online course offline uh once we get those materials developed again we're still we're finalizing the manual we're we're still finalizing the materials once we get all those materials developed specifically the recertification materials developed will'll be in a better position to to actually put them onto you know develop the online modules that we had uh before um another question was that does this webcast count uh and I'm not sure if I understand the question but I think what you're asking is does the webcast count towards I guess recertification this webcast is really just informational uh the re certification program um you know there's a spe specific program for that that that we work with at Nasco and all of our trainers um another question was how many trainers we have and I believe it's right around 120 uh pacp trainers um now again we're getting a lot of these uh um questions just give me a second to go through them um when will the software companies have their updates um and I can go ahead and and uh kind of hit that one too software companies have been and I didn't mention this before but they've been working very closely with us um on all of those webinars that we mentioned um they've been they've been pretty much there every step of the way uh the main purpose is to make sure that all of the data gathered in the current version of pacp and macp and lacp transfer seamlessly to the next version um with the manuals and the information that they have right now and once we're complete with the manual we'll get that to them also but we've given them information all along they are currently I'm talking about really the software committee from Nasco that's made up of the software vendors they are currently um um developing that data dictionary so once that data dictionary is developed then the software vendors will actually start updating their software similar to what happened with version 6.0 back in 2010 we expect about a 3 to six month lag time from the time we get version 7.0 out till the time that the version 7.0 software is available again that really depends on you know how how the market is for the actual uh software vendors and whatnot um so there there were some various questions about contacting your software vendors and again look look for those updates to become available probably about three to six months after the after we actually convert to version 7.0 um I guess I I can direct this one to Luis also are there levels for coding H2S corrosion with respect to surface erosion on concrete pipe Louise boy that one I'll I'll have to investigate and probably get back to the uh the person who has a question but I don't remember that it there different levels uh Ted you well I don't think that part's actually changed um yeah that part didn't change yeah the the the different types of surface damage um are really really the same there's some some more clarifications and provided better better photographs um but we really don't have any change with respect to those those codes um I will say they're very important codes you know if any codes are are um misinterpreted more it's probably those codes so but those codes really have not changed we did have um kind of a typo is what I'll call it and the actual uh condition grades for those codes they have been relooked at and and verified um yeah so the the grades the grades were revised for those different codes that's what I remember right um here's another question I guess for you uh Louise is dirt and I should say soil in in a lateral considered as a defect soil in a lateral if it can be seen again it needs to be it needs to be coed uh by just being at some Tye of some type of obstruction or sediment but that's only if you can be seen from the main right and and um what the best practice on that is we if we call a lateral defective or I should say a tap if we call a tap defective um we should really in the remarks of that uh code code exactly what we're seeing up the lateral now part of that defect goes into the main line that we're coding the main pipeline obviously becomes another code within the pacp uh system um and Ted if I could add I guess if we're concerned about calling it defective because we don't know where that soil is coming from this would be another great place to use the miscellaneous General observation code and again put some something in the remarks column absolutely absolutely um and uh actually we're just talking about this I just this this one just came in um we will coding defective laterals in pacp inv version 7 affect the grading uh the main line receives now you know we again we went through and you talk about uh I believe condition grading um it will it will not unless those codes actually apply to the main line so the purpose of being able to now which is again like Louise said is new code the defects within a lateral is to be able to kind of sort through and find laterals where there are defects in them but if those defects do not come out into the main pipeline then they aren't part of the pacp inspection and therefore don't get condition grades um I'm going to uh go ahead and and we're going to have another time for uh questions um at the end of this webcast but let's go ahead and and uh move forward our next presenter excuse me our next presenter will be lri Perkins L is a senior project manager in the Wastewater Practice Group at Wright Pierce in New England he has over 20 years of extensive experience with pipeline assessment flow monitoring and inii studies sewer system evaluation surveys SS work and pipeline Rehabilitation projects her civil engineering and project management experience involves drainage and sewage collection systems Force Mains and CSO and SSO abatement L's also a certified Nasco trainer for pacp macp and lap Lori thank you Ted good afternoon everyone I'm going to speak specifically on some of the updates to the manhole assessment and certification program as well as the lateral assessment and certification program um the mCP and lacp programs were first published in 2006 for manholes and in 2010 for laterals so they're fairly newer these updates that are coming out in May to be released will be the first updates to both these programs and in general we have added functionality to these programs while still keeping the program simple similar to the reasons for the updates for pacp we needed to also update manhole the manhole and lateral assessment programs because we have new data users for example Departments of Transportation um people that are more using the program for evaluating storm condition storm type condition and as well as the Army Corps of Engineers specifically using the program to assess their levies so we have different types of structures that we can now address with the uh program and we can now take precise measurements that are needed relative to those new structures this also created an additional need for qaqc measures and those have been adapted into the program and now we will have something we never had before and that's manhole condition grade so we can calculate overall condition ratings for our structures using the macp program with the addition of new technologies like the manhole Zoom cameras and manhole 360 um there was an additional need to modify the program accordingly to adapt to these types of Technologies we've developed new and better schematics throughout the manhole assessment certification program uh manual this is just one of those um programs and now we will have um actually have this schematic on the colorcoded chart which many of you are probably familiar with and keep in your back pockets uh that have all the available codes from pacp that colorcoded chart is going to be expanded to include some of the very specific manhole type um codes for example coating something on the cones interior COI versus the wall exterior um would the code we those are all going to show up on our new colorcoded chart we've always had the two different types of inspections the level one inspection versus a level two inspection and by definition a level one inspection would just be done top side or from the surface where you would not be entering the manhole and you would not be using any specialized equipment uh for the level one inspection the previous program um had several several mandatory Fields we've actually gone back through and have reduced the number of mandatory Fields significant significantly again to make the program um a little more simple but still add the value that we need in doing the level one inspection we can also use the inspection details form this is the third form in the manhole assessment certification program where you actually typically in a level two start coding defects again for wall interior versus wall exterior but you'll now have the ability to access that form simply to notate a hole for example something significant if you're only doing a level one inspection and then we've also add added fields for component condition um to just identify the overall condition of each component and just to differentiate between the two inspections a level two inspection would still include uh would still be defined as a detailed condition assessment where we're using specialized equipment to see every part of the manhole or we're doing manhole entry in order to code every defect that we can find some changes to the header section uh first of all the fields are going to be much more consistent with those in the pacp header form for example drainage area is now uh on both forms and before it was not this is just an example of the new macp inspection header form you can see that we now have um the number of the field is the first digit you actually see and then the uh the field name followed by in parenthesis whether it is mandatory for a level one inspection a level two inspection or for both we've also modified the weather condition options in the manho home inspection certification program um we always had uh saturated was option five six was damp we've eliminated both of those and we have uh five being that it's dry weather on the day of the inspection but it uh the ground is actually wet so it takes into consideration that uh preceding rain event also in the header section we've made a modification to pre- cleaning um we had heavy cleaning with h we used to have J for jetting now we have L for light cleaning or jetting using a power wash power washing technology with no entry required inspection status we always had in the manhole assessment certification program this is when we try to document why we could not do the inspection if we could not do the inspection for example the manhole would be unable to open meaning we were able to locate it but not able to open it or it was unable because it was locked or stuck for some reason versus unable to access um could could be that we found the manhole but there's actually a car parked over it so we couldn't access it buried if the manhole was uh buried and we could not get into it to do the inspection sirch charge the manhole does not exist in other words we uh know that it's still on a GIS map but we have done field work to confirm that it actually does not exist all those options are there and they have now been copied to the pacp program because we want to be able to track why we couldn't finish a pipeline inspection just like we wanted to track why we couldn't finish a manhole inspection uh typically we get a report from our CCTV contractors that would include all of the footage that they were able to complete with only uh possibly some notes being submitted by the CCTV contractor to explain why they couldn't complete the total footage assigned for example with this option is going to allow the contractors to fully document why certain lines were unable to be inspected also uh for manhole use again to uh reflect the needs of the Army Core of Engineers we've added codes for dams and levies we've added a measurement for the rim to grade exposed which is where we're going to enter the depth between the rim of the manhole and the grade level of the lowest exposed point of the manhole so we can actually uh estimate and understand the amount of that uh the amount of exposure that that manhole has we've added um a field in a component observation form for frame clear opening width it was just uh left out of the initial program we've added a cover shape for manhole cover covers that are indeed triangle shaped um we've added the option to select that the cone is actually not present that was also not an option in the initial program and now it is for cases where we truly do not have a comb present uh in the manhole structure we've also added schematic for pipe connections to better explain how the numbering of pipe connections occurs in terms of lining up our outgoing pipe at the six o'clock and calling that pipe number one um we've always been asked for examples uh we typically train them in class but now they would be in the manual when you have two outgoing um pipes for example and how to number the second outgoing pipe if the first one's numbered one at 6 o'clock in the component observation section also we have mapped Transit we've removed transite and we've mapped it to ASB besta cement pipe there's only one option there uh under special conditions we uh renamed that field pipe type and uh that in the manhole section form if you recall uh describes what kind of pipe connection we have whether it's a force M coming into our manual if it's a drop pipe inside or outside or if it's a regular gravity connection uh the field name used to always be called special condition we've just renamed that to um call it pipe typ and in that same section the option for Gravity relief sewer has been modified to be more clearly called just a gravity connection coming into a manhole we've uh changed or uh defined better the definition of channel exposure we used to have a percentage as to whether the manhold uh channel was partially open uh by more than 50% or less than 50% we've actually removed that percentage Al together and your channel exposure is either going to be defined as partially open fully open or fully closed regardless of the percentage uh and we've added options for manholes with no bench or uh manholes with no channels we've uh just like Louis had explained about the pipeline assessments program throughout the manual you will see better images and schematics like this one of the channel and Joint uh definition throughout the manual and in regard to the schematic here we have uh clarified that and this came out in a technical memorandum previously but this the new manual have schematic right in it but the interface between the manhole wall and the bench is the bench wall uh is is a bench joint okay and the interface between the uh bench and the channel is going to be called a channel joint the interface between the pipe joint and the channel is also a channel joint so defects associated with those interfaces would have a J in the joint column to indicate that it's associated with a joint we have um some redefined fields and new Fields specifically for coding methods of line of manholes or other structures pu is going to be the code for polyura CT col tar CM cement mortar XX not known and then ZZ for other and uh Jim is GNA spend quite a bit of time regarding the new appendix that includes a risk management uh module so we have added for manholes as well the consequence of failure um co uh code in column to calculate now both consequence of failure of our structures manholes and other access type points and um we've always been addressing condition or uh likelihood of failure of our manhole structures we' touched on these earlier I'm just going to uh repeat them but the other special chamber has been changed to other special structure and again even though the manho assessment and certification program is titled manhole we're talking about any structure that we could actually do a condition assessment on so other special stru structure could include um any access structure not described elsewhere by our access point codes uh for example an open cut access point over the top of the pipe the catch Basin uh ACB code again is an inlet or an access structure that's available in the program to inspect catch Bas on our storm sewer systems or our combin sewer system then end of pipe better defined uh as where the pipe ends underground without a manhole could be the upper reach of a small section of gravity sewer for example without daylight from a manhole for example to the surface then we have the option of miscellaneous um lining change specific for manholes that may have been rehabilitated with different lining products or coating we would use the code mlc uh to identify those changes again similar to Pac um we will differentiate the condition grades that are now available in this new program between structural condition grades and onm type condition grades and the condition grades for manholes or other structures are going to be divided by component in The Matrix uh in the appendix for condition grades condition grad INF structures so by component you'll have grades for chimney cone wall bench or Chann Channel and in a lot of cases those will be the same um but in special cases where it makes sense the condition grades will be elevated uh depending on the type of defect that we're talking about in a structure and where it's located just uh moving on to the lateral assessment and certification program changes we have um new codes here as well for when we come across backflow preventers the new code will be ABT uh if we want to identify or observe there's a roof vent we have the new code arv and then for lateral traps we have the new code alt also in terms of the program changes uh We've made the changes in order to address some of the newer Technologies available for doing lateral infections and we have actually described those new technologies in the new manual uh for example the CCTV lateral launcher will be described as a technology for lateral infections in the new manual for pre- cleaning specific to laterals we've added the code R for rotting and again better images and schematics are now going to be available um uh throughout the manual and in the training materials we had a lot of those comments and we have certainly addressed those with the new program so again I just would like to say that you know with the changes that have been made specifically for manholes and laterals and I know the pipeline program is as well uh we have significantly increased functionality but have been able to keep the program uh simple and with that I will turn it back over to uh Ted yeah thanks Lori um I want to take a little bit of time right now because we've been getting actually a lot of questions coming in um so if I can just take a few minutes before we start with Jim and take a few questions and Lai um some of these are really directed towards the manhold one of the questions is there an official code for a drop connection U or are we still using an MGO uh the drop connection would be coded in a structure by when you're doing the pipe connections um so you have identified a drop Connection in the pipe connection field which are I think 91 to 102 in the program now the field numbers so in there you would enter the pipe type being a a drop connection and you're going to actually document both the upper invert elevation and the lower elevation of that drop type connection yeah and and I'm not sure if this uh this may have been a hold over from pacp to for the actual drop connection within the pipeline and pacp um we there was a bulletin that was put out a couple years ago actually to code them as TAPS at 6:00 clock and tap code was actually written so that you know you could you could actually use that code within the pipeline so um I had a comment I don't think it was a question but the manhole schematic doesn't include adjustment Rings there's actually I in the industry there's actually two kind of definition of what those adjustment rings are uh one that we call out in the manual the actual adjustment Rings fit on top of the frame generally they're used uh in like Paving projects when you have to um increase the elevation of the frame by like an inch or two you put these on top of the frame uh that's one adjustment ring the other people call um you know the concrete and also made of other types of materials that are used to create the chimney as adjustment Rings also so I'm not sure um what the questions asking but the adjustment Rings really are uh addressed within you know with within the actual within the manual and within the actual um um uh component form um yes we act we actually also said have the you know adjustment ring height field in the manhole component observation form so you can you know explain by height taking the measurement from the rim down to the bottom of any adjustment rings that distance in terms of depth there's a field for that right now to to handle adjustment rings okay next question had had actually to do more with the data uh with the data and the database is uh has it been thought put into how old defect data will be merged with new data uh in asset databases aside from new codes will existing code scores change um and again like I mentioned uh there were representatives from the software committee and particularly software vendors that were a part of um all of these changes and one of their main focus was to be able to map all of our you know all of the existing data into the new data so yes that's um that has been taken into a consideration um interesting question here will manhole cover shape choices include hexagonal are you passing that to me sure well it doesn't right now I guess it would be up to the team uh I I guess you know we need to determine just like anything else how frequently we're frequently we're seeing that and then you know it'll be up to the team that's doing the updates to see if that's something you guys want added Ted but it's not in there now that's the answer on my end right right yeah and it basically it's another and we did look at a lot of different shapes throughout this whole process and some did get added but in general if it wasn't something that we normally saw then it was uh it was an other um okay let me uh this is another question uh for for you um Lori uh is there is there any coding to differentiate Channel and pipe joints for different types of pipes such as concrete and Plastics um in the man want inection program to address the different pipe materials you would use the MMC code and then if there are defects associated with those materials in the channel and we're defining the channel joints the actual joint between then the interface between the concrete pipe and a plastic pipe would be considered a joint then we're just uh the you know the rule is you call that a joint you put a J in the joint column if there's defects associ with it of course you're going to have photos attached to it um but if I'm understanding the question correctly you know you can designate the difference in materials in the channel using the MMC code when you get down to the channel and you're coding any defects associated with it You' use the MMC code and and identify the second you know the change in material um and then if it involves the joint it would be the joint in the channel the interface between that concrete and PVC pipe hopefully that answers that person's question okay um another question will the new MP rate the entire manhole or just the components or both it uh similar to pacp so it'll um rate the components uh and then you'll get an overall rating for structural and an overall rating for o andm based on the entire manhole structure for an overall condition rating of that structure okay um next question we're getting a lot of questions right now so they're they're kind of popping up pretty quick but yeah that's that's that's correct um did did you provide for coating lift holes in the pipes uh I just comment on that lift holes are generally small holes that are used B basically for lifting and placing you know heavy like concrete pipe uh into a trench um and basically a lift hole is really a hole usually it has only one clock position so there's no specific code and usually at the 12:00 because if you think about it that's you know when they're lowering it down in the manhole that's where it ends up so there's no specific code uh for Lift holes another question are there definitions of heavy cleaning and light cleaning uh the same for macp and pacp do you want to address that a little bit Lori um the definition between you know heavy and Light cleaning would still follow the um you know CCTV guidelines that we have out um the guidelines for doing the work um between Ma manholes and laterals no I mean we're talk heavy cleaning is the removal of debris generally speaking that that's the definition that gets you past light cleaning you're actually removing some some weight of debris and actually yeah the the guy ID lines that we have we have specification guidelines Nasco does on the website and they specifically uh address different types of cleaning requirements we actually Incorporated that in a pacp manholes are still kind of kind of different you either need to uh can can jet it out or you know with a high pressure or actually need to do an entry to to cut things out uh does a level two manhole inspection allow for camera tools to be used and of a manhole entry yes um if I didn't say that clear enough but a level two inspection is manhole entry or specialized equipment something like a pole camera and the idea of using equipment from the surface means that you should be able to see all the way down to your pipe you know and into your pipes looking at pipe seals because the pipe seal condition and any um defects around that are part of the the manhole inspection so yes level two includes both entry or specialized equipment that you that allows you to get down all the way to the bottom of the manhole to see everything and and just to kind of make sure we're we're complete um there are specifications out there that require an entry um so pacp we would call a level two inspection you know you would have that option unless it's written in the specs that you actually need to do the entry um I have a question still not clear on what to call a drop connection um they said to call it a tap at six o'clock um is that still the standard again for a drop connection again now we're in pacp a pipeline and I apologize for going back and forth in the pacp and macp but when a drop Connection in pacp is still called a tap at 6 o'cl it usually you know it should be at the six o'cl position um so that's that's what it is um that that's what we call that drop connection and and just so you know that drop connection is that connection usually it's something you're going to see in an outside drop you're not necessarily going to get to it in the inside drop but in an outside drop you're going to see that and it's it's basically going to be a pipe at 12 o'clock whether it's a t or it could be a y connection or whatever so um okay let me just go through um some of these actually I'm gonna let's let's go ahead and and move on now um trying to read through all the questions but uh let's go ahead and move on our next um speaker and we have been getting actually quite a few questions about Asset Management um and that's actually very timely now because our next presenter is Jim Harris uh and one of the appendices he's going to talk about is going to talk about um some of the guidelines we provide in the new manual for Asset Management uh Jim's a professional engineer was nearly 40 years of experience in sanitary sewer condition assessment and Engineering excuse me he's worked in several sewer service companies Municipal Utilities and as a consultant he's currently the owner of Harrison analysis in Murphysboro Tennessee a company specializing in data analysis and asset management he served on Nasco board of directors in 2008 and 2009 and he currently serves on the board of the buried Asset Management Institute International bamy and he's a pacp certified trainer and analyst Jim hey thank you Ted and we're now going to discuss very briefly several updates and additions to the appendices but we're going to spend a bit more time with those that are new and we're going to spend a lot more time with the new appendix D that has been referred to the risk management appendix that deals with Asset Management as we've already discussed each of these appendices has been thoroughly vetted and peer reviewed and all of them benefit from this the first appendix is appendix a codes list very little changes have been made to this appendix the biggest one is that now includes a section for lacp codes you know particularly those codes unless you're a plumber you don't know a whole lot about the access points and fittings that are different for service laterals than any other thing that we do the color coded chart already has been referred to one of our favorite charts has now been upgraded to the status of appendix it is now appendix B and this is a quick reference guide for the use of the codes the biggest change to this is that it now includes a header info section and it can take contains a diagram you see right here that illustrates how to make these measurements it can be confusing such as the rim the invert measurement the rim to grade measurement and the grade the invert measurement appendix C the pacp condition grading system has been significantly upgraded uh and in several ways uh this page here shows how examples are included in this appendix now uh examples of how to compute continuous defects how to compute segment grade scores overall pipe ratings the pipe rating index and the quick grade you know here we see a very helpful chart that illustrates how all of these are done ultimately getting to a quick rating that is going to be used in the asset management plan that we'll discuss later this appendix now includes mCP discussion uh almost identical I think maybe actually identical to the pacp discussion the the only difference that I would point out is in the computation of continuous defects in the pacp you divide the length of the continuous defect by five here in the mCP you divide it by one to get the equivalent defects this appendix also uh now combin storm and sanitary together for one rating and has already been mentioned it includes ratings for levies and DS uh this recognizes the fact that Levy and Dam design the pipes through them have significantly different loadings and purpose than for sanitarian storm SE and through significant discussions with the core of engineers have we have developed a rating system now for levies and downs finally it includes a rating for mCP observations and these ratings are summarized by the component uh chimney Cony wall bench and channel and by traffic loading and this takes into account that the the relative elevation of the defect in the manhole along with the loading can significantly affect the damage there and the potential for more damage so this is now Tak into account that consideration now we come to the appendix that uh that I'm gonna camp out at for a little while um and the prime consideration here with appendix D is to develop a risk management way to use or actually use pacp data to develop a risk management plan that is used as an integral part of an asset management plan you know this explains how we can use Simple but effective Technologies involving pacp to determine risk management methodology the definition of asset management I'll read to you here but it's to maintain individual components or assets at the desired level of service at the lowest life cycle cost possible without negatively impacting performance of the overall system essentially what we're trying to do is is to maintain the system in a proactive way instead of the reactive way that is been historically what we do so how do we do this uh asset management is essentially an organized way of answering basic questions in this case of buried assets these questions uh include such as what types materials and laterals do we own it it's important that you know what you have and this answers the questions where are these assets located what are their materials Dimensions depth and ground cover what is the condition of each asset which assets are critical to sustained performance and what other community assets would be affected by failure of a particular asset these questions are just read are substantially answered to the pacp process but there are a few more questions that pacp data not directly but indirectly is used to obtain the answers to these questions such as what are my best omm and capital Improvement investment strategies what will be the rehabilitation cost what effect will this have upon the utility budget how should all of this be communicated to stakeholders now the focus of this discussion and this appendix is really how to answer those top questions there and using papap data Pac data to do this and at the heart of this I is risk management risk is the definition of the likelihood of failure and the condition of failure so risk equals likelihood of failure times condition consequence of failure the likelihood of failure is directly obtained through the pacp data through the condition scores and we'll show you how to do that in a second and the knowledge of the system then generate the consequence of failure and risk is like we said a combination of those basically the consequence of failure is come to answer to this question how bad is it if the asset fails and we realize that all assets are not created equal one thing I like to tell people is this what asset or which asset would get you out of bed at night if you got the phone call this question is answered by this risk analysis and consideration of the consequence of failure component risk it's important to consider more than the dollars that we normally like to run to and we use here the triple bottom line approach that considers also the social and environmental cost of an asset failing The Economic Consequences of these I think we're familiar with this what does it cost to repair the defect you know what property damage exist what's the ca of the loss of production but sometimes we forget the social and environmental consequences uh the social consequences how many effective properties are there how many people are inconvenience by this asset failure what's the type of the affected properties uh what's the duration of the failure how does this affect loss of Public Image and safety concerns and finally uh certainly with an EPA person present today we got to talk about environmental but so often uh and we talked about exfiltration and overflows and so forth the defect failure involves contamination of the soil ground and surface water and it certainly can involve regulatory enforcement and fins and this appendix also includes a considerable discussion uh can't go into a whole lot of detail in this format but discussing how each consideration can be rated and you have factors in a pipe such as the pipe depth the relative Network position of the pipe the damage the location how close is it to a Waterway how close is it to a customer of high importance that would be affected by the failure how accessible is this I think some of this is rather intuitive but for example the depth of the pipe we see here if the depth is less than six feet a consequence of failure St of one but if the depth is greater than 24 feet then it has a consequence of failure is six recognizing deeper the pipe the more flow is in the pipe most likely and and the harder the rehabilitation project is going to be well the same thing can be done with all the rest of these pipe diameter the greater the maner the more the consequence of failure how close are you to a customer such as a school or a hospital or something of high importance these all take into account and affect the consequence of failure and finally we come to a way to actually compute a number and this case 4.03 that is the consequence of failure for a particular pipe we summarize the economic problems the social problems environmental problems we can give a rating factor to these in this case as customer considered environmental twice as important as economic and social we can look at the specific scores that associated with each of these problems and come up with a code here or rating for this a 4.03 that can be combined with the likelihood of failure rating to actually produce a risk number once we know the risk number we can uh use a matrix such as this to determine to guide us into what we're to do with that we can look at for example the likelihood of failure the the worse the defect is that we want to increase the aggressive Miss of The Rehabilitation we can also look at the consequence of failure the higher the consequence of failure we want to increase the aggressiveness of the assessment so if a defect is a high likelihood we want to get it fixed in a prioritized way if it's a high consequence we want to look at the system more of to find where when those occur and and hopefully as we've already said earlier in this presentation to catch a problem before it gets bad so if you have ultimately a combination of likelihood of failure and consequence of failure down here in the green area probably not going to have an fairly aggressive plan to work on that but if it's up here in the red area you're probably going to get a fairly significant uh budget and schedule ready to take care of that here's how it actually all plays out uh in in a kind of a scene from a plan that I did a couple of years ago where we can list each pipe segment from location of it what what what type of Highway and so forth it is in this case this pipe was put in the ground in 1921 it was rehabed in 1980 through slip lining uh so you got some information about this and and you can go on to some of these others where you see here likelihood of failure 2.1 consequence of failure 2.5 giving us a risk of 5.3 here we can look at uh how often or what budget year such things could happen in this case we have a cured in place pipe that has some grease in it and increased water level we need to clean that line you know when should this occur well given the risk number and how often we're out there doing maintenance on this pipe uh through the consequence of failure we can determine how often that line should be clean and how often this $440 cost will be incurred the same with this pipe here vitrified PL pipe with fractures and cracks and and a broken pipe Bo visible that pipe is scheduled to be pipe burst at a cost of around $1,668 uh the risk will tell you when that thing needs to be done so that's kind of the asset management portion of this one more appendix and then I want to talk about an initiative that Nasco is going to take on but the final appendix is appendix Z pipe shapes and materials and many of us are very experienced in this that have been out the TV truck a lot and been around pipes all our lives and maybe wondering well this is pretty simple why study pipe shapes and materials and a course such as this but we have to remember that not everyone who comes to training works in the field and it's familiar with typical shapes and materials uh I've been doing a lot of training and I've never had a single class that somebody did not get confused on the test with the shape or the material so Nasco is now developed an appendix that lists each shape and shows that so we can talk about these and help people with the shapes they are unfamiliar with certainly the oldal and egg shaped pipe kind of confuses people sometimes and then we look at pictures and explanations of each of the pipe types the pipe materials including the coating materials that helps people at least see a pipe under pretty good condition and then understanding of course when you got slime and poor lighting and so forth this get you to get more difficult so all the more reason to have a conversation about this in the class and finally I want to consider a new initiative that Nasco has undertaken it is called One Voice for sewer infrastructure I think we're all familiar with the infrastructure report cards that are out there that say that our sewer is sailing and and all of that and very likely these things are true but do we really know in a numerical way in a verifiable way how bad the sewers are in the country so this initiative is hoping to discover to what extent we really know the conditions of our sewers we're going to collect hopefully a lot of pacp data from all over the nation with various regions various utilities and so forth and hope to come to this understanding uh so how can a compilation of of Nationwide data assist us with this we think it will you know are there differences regionally are there differences depending upon the size and the type of utility the age of the pipe materials in the pipe and such then maybe most importantly what can we learn regarding deterioration uh by comparing older pacp inspections with newer pacp inspections for the same pipe so Nasco is partnering with Oklahoma State University and various utilities and data providers around the nation is attempting through one voice to begin answering these questions thank you for your consideration and time okay thanks Jim um I'm gonna actually go back to a question that was asked early on and I put it on hold until now um and the we''ve been getting throughout this some Asset Management questions uh Jim our asset the question is our asset management modules use a risk assessment assessment of one to five for all of our infrastructure can we easily convert the pacp risk scores of one to six to match our risk scores of 1 to five and theirs is based on WRC version three but really can be based on any different type of scoring system can you speak to that a little bit Jim yeah it really doesn't matter what scoring system you use as long as it's a consistent scoring system you know based upon you know standardization like pacp is we could use a 1 to 100 or 1 to 50 or anything in this case we looked at the one to five rating from pacp and using the quick rating and I failed to talk about this during my discussion so thank you for asking this but during the quick rating we have the maximum rating and the number of them for example if you have a maximum quick rating number of five meaning the worst rated observation the type is a five and there were three of those it would be the number there be 5.3 but what if there were 10 of those then we recognize the fact that the more of this maximum rated defect in the PIP there are it ought to be a slightly higher score so if there's more than 10 then we just add one to that and make it six we do the same thing whether the maximum rating was a four like a four three ratings of four would give a 4.3 but you had 12 13 ratings of four that give you a five for that rating so essentially uh phcp is a good way to do it but there are other ways out there and as long as you're consistent and you get a grading score for your likelihood of failure from that and then you use a consequence of failure number that balances with that so that those are equally weighted that it would work you don't want to have a put a whole lot more emphasis on the condition than you do on the consequence or vice versa okay a related question because again we're getting into a lot of uh consequen failure and likelihood of failure discussions um are likelihood of failure and consequence of failure values calculated or estimated well the likelihood of failure values are calculated especially if you're using the pacp data uh it comes directly from that and from the observations that the people in the field make when they're doing their inspection consequence of failure honestly is not quite as computed uh the system that we've put into this does result in a computation but but it involves uh sitting down with utility and looking at maps and looking at where the relationship is to certain other functions in their Community how Clos they are to the waterways to the the hospitals and so forth you know what the maximum damage to pipe do they have you know are are they under highways or the under uh the how hard is it toess and so forth these are it's honestly a little bit more of an art but you do want to sit down within a particular project and have a consistent methodology for doing that I wouldn't exactly call it a computation but you can generate numbers from each of these areas that can then be put into a spreadsheet and a computation made to get a final number yeah yeah and and uh again this is kind of a a good question a follow-up question am I understanding correctly that the camera operator will now be assessing the consequence of failure and if so shouldn't that assessment be made by the owner uh no the camera operator would not be making that assessment uh some information that they're getting such as what the cover is you know perhaps some of the stuff in the header what the amateur is uh How deep the pipe is and all that will help in that but this is a an assessment made between an engineer or whoever is writing the asset management plan and the owner of the utility yeah and that's that's that's kind of important what what we're providing is just uh a methodology to actually use the uh condition grades and the the coding that we use for pacp to help assign that but again yeah we would not expect the operator to actually do that or even know that information um one of the questions again kind of a followup to that um let me see if I can apologize we like I said we do have a lot of questions um but no it's it's not we're not looking at the operator to actually actually provide that information if I get get to that question again I'll I'm sorry I'll I'll I'll get that I'm going to kind of go back through a lot of the questions that we've been I've been um getting on the screen um and asking various uh um members that of the presenters that have um present on those specific sections and and um I'm going to call back on lii um the manhole rating for both level one and level two or just for level two um since the level it's really for level two where we start um coding defects on that third form the the details form so the same um codes that we had and the ratings that were applied to those from pacp would carry over but that's not to say in level one if you do an inspection and you use that third form just to identify a you know a couple different issues on the details form like a hole it's going to carry a CO a a waiting with it but generally speaking you're not doing your uh defect identification and coding until a full level two inspection and using that third form that's where all the ratings are going to come from and and that's where you're going to be able to get an overall condition rating yeah and as I recall one of the requests that really came through loud and clear um and this came from people within our manhole Rehabilitation uh committee uh and others was can we have a um is sound or defective for each component um and we have provided that so in a level one inspection where you're you're really not gathering enough information to really put together a condition grades you can actually and these are these are not mandatory Fields they're optional but obviously anybody can make an optional field mandatory within a specification we you know we can have those fields filled in uh and again you know that that was something so very easily you could at least see you know how the inspector looked at each one of the components as either sound or defective and then write comments uh based on what they saw so while there's no condition grades for level one there is kind of an easy way to see if we do see problems within level one uh another question again this is kind of a a mix mixing mixing things up a little bit but uh again there was another question about the difference between light and heavy cleaning and I'm not sure uh with it which well you mean in a manhole or in a pipeline in a pipeline I got to encourage you to look at the the um cleaning specification guidelines that Nasco put out and by the way all that stuff's free so on nasco.com um that were put out that split up the different types of cleaning um not just light and heavy but really dependent on what types of things are in there within a manhole it's really very simple uh heavy cleaning means you need to do an entry to actually cut things out whereas light cleaning means you can basically power wash it from the top of the manhole um and that's that's the only distinction there um some more administrative stuff and I I'll cover some of that are Mac and LA ACP separate programs or are they part of pacp in terms of certification and inspection uh and again macp and lacp are all related are both related to pacp in terms of the coding that's used is very few modifications there are modifications but very few um that are different between macp and lacp from pacp and for that reason the pacp training is required as a prerequisite to mCP and lacp I'm going to move down a little bit in the um and uh I'm gonna I'm gonna actually throw this on you but I can comment on this on Jim um will there be a course or a class for Asset Management I guess I would say I hope so but uh Ted you're going to have to answer that question well and there's there are courses on Asset Management in fact fact I mentioned bamy twice both all there I'm sorry well no no both Jim and Lise are involved in that that certification class uh nasco's been involved to some extent uh We've also been involved in a certification class um or program I should say under Virginia Tech so there's a lot of those um asset management class classes now going to kind of the stickler question will there be a specific module for the uh um appendex that Jim just just uh discussed and yes that is the plan however um we don't plan on making that part of the pacp certification process obviously um that's kind of above and beyond what we need our operators to know but we look to have that uh that module available you know to provide for our trainers to be able to provide that training to people that want it uh and we'd like to have an online module for that so there's a lot of different um kind of sources for asset management and and by the way I mentioned those other two programs as well as the EPA program uh you know among others we we mentioned we we spoke with Steve Alby in the development of this to make and Worth to make sure that what we were putting together would actually work with with other types of asset management uh programs and is um and and we that's kind of where we where we ended up um one other thing Ted if I may uh the in the SE toown programs that you referred to from bamy uh we are in a in a very significant way using pacp within that to explain how to determine the likelihood of failure so uh very much a cooperation there and so there's not going to be any conflict between what one is saying and the other is saying about at least how do you use the pacp data right um okay again another question will will the appendic on Asset Management be within the training material in pacp and again um I don't see how we can actually apply that to to users training in order to get their certification but we will we do have every intent uh to have this um H have that uh um have a module specific for that that appendix um just going through again uh oh what what is bamy again we mentioned that a few times uh and and either Louise or or Jim can you can you again kind of explain what bamy is and it's b a m i i actually yeah this G this is It's called the Barrett Asset Management Institute International it really flowed out of uh the large project that was done in Atlanta Georgia where Dr Tom Isley worked with uh the mayor and the people in Atlanta and they saw the need of of setting up a an organization that's kind of above the prey to determine what what are good procedures and so forth that can help utilities particularly learn how to do asset management and and become more involved in that process Lou if you want to add anything else to that no that's uh that's a good description Jim okay um got some uh General uh questions when will the pacp training be offered uh I mentioned before someone asked how many trainers we have there there's about and and I'm just estimating about 120 pacp trainers and and out of them most of those can train macp and lacp that was kind of an additional module and and I don't think there's many trainers that that actually can't train macp and lacp that's the third day of the program pacp being the first two days on the Nasco website if you get on get on the the homepage and down towards the bottom there's a pacp logo you click on that you'll be able to find our training calendars what happens is those trainers put on training classes we really don't control their classes we have classes here in in Marriottsville just outside of Baltimore those classes plus many of the other classes that trainers put together are on those um that calendar so the first thing to do if you're looking for a pacp class is to look at the calendar that's on the website um however the other thing if you don't see anything there that really uh is convenient contact Nasco and we will find tacp trainers in your area to find out number one if they already have any training planned that's not on the calendar because like I said not all the training is on the calendar or they can set up a class depending on how many students uh are available for you and in that specific uh area so we have ways of developing classes um so if you need a pacp class then really the best way to do is look at the calendar but then if uh if you need to look further see if there are any trainers in your area just a comment on that right around April May about the same time frame we're actually looking at revising nasco's website and when we do we're GNA actually make that process easier to find either training in your area based on things like entering your area code we're finding uh trainers in your area to contact to see if they can conduct training and and provide that training so all that stuff should be uh available relatively uh in April May time frame right about the same time we're putting out uh 7.0 um the there's a question I'll be attending a pacb sorry I'll be attending a pacp class in May 2015 will the 7.0 manual be available by then um it should be the class classes in may need to be uh the version 7.0 class so whoever is actually training that class will need to have been certified as a trainer in version 7.0 there's been a couple questions about actual trainers so let me let me talk about that too one question is how do I become a trainer the way that you become a Nasco pacp trainer uh there's a uh you basically just just contact Nasco either info@ nasco.com and that's basically how that whole process starts so um and and they go through the process of taking the test and then there's a classroom exercise in order uh to become a trainer so if you're interested you know by all means contact Nasco um that's about all the time we have I want to thank our sponsors in particular for making this webcast possible uh your questions we will plan on following up uh the questions but I want to take an opportunity to learn more about our sponsors and our first is a strong Nasco and pacp supporter and a strong advocate for training in our industry so it's my pleasure to introduce Dan poy uh from Jack The Haney company danan hey how's everybody doing first off I'd uh on behalf of everybody at the Jack toini companies we would like to thank Nasco and the water environment Federation for the opportunity to sponsor such an important training program the updating of the pacp program diversion 7 represents an incredibly important tool for the Wastewater industry um Jack toini companies is the largest supplier of environmental cleaning and inspection equipment in North America um the Jack company has the largest and newest rental Fleet of equipment available uh we have 18 locations throughout North America and and from those 18 locations we service our customers and provide our rental equipment um on a very shortterm uh notice currently we've got rental equipment working in 46 of the 50 states and in almost every province in Canada um our person and service capabilities at these 18 locations the second to none our motto is that we service what we sell we service what we rent our facilities are staffed with knowledgeable industry veterans and experts we stock parts that you need to all the parts that you need to keep your equipment on the job um our training programs as Ted said it's it's very very important to us uh our training programs range from pacp mCP and lacp programs that you've been listening to for the last two hours to operator and mechanic training programs for all of the products that we sell and rent we have confined space fall protection and air monitoring programs and we have the industry's only Advanced pipe cleaning program in the pictures that you're looking at right now you're looking at on the left you know a uh fall protection training program that's done on our manhole simulator so we're training people to properly utilize the fall protection equipment on the right hand side you're looking at our pipe cleaning Proving Grounds uh the pipe cleaning Proving Grounds allows us to simulate a wide variety of common uh pipe clean problems as well as graphically demonstrate proper pipe cleaning procedures and the utilization of some of the specially tools tools that are required for for pipe cleaning today you know it's an above ground collection system that is Hands-On and very very visual all of our training programs incorporate classroom and Hands-On uh programs into the training program our customer retention or ability to take that knowledge and take it into the field has been uh uh very very successful um the products that jao supplies represents or has a available to rent range from our Cusco dot coded debris bodies with basic industrial vacuum loaders to Advanced vacuum loading systems from hydr trenchers to Turbo vacs our pressac product lines represent some of the uh industry's most specialized dot coded vacuum units with a wide variety of vacuum options our guzzler product lines represent units with wet dry capabilities with Advanced bag house filtration systems we have units available for rent that are have high rail gears we've got liquid ring vacuum blowers for special vacuum applications as well as Hydro excavators our sewer Equipment Company of America Products range from Trailer Jets to truck Jets to easement units with capacities ranging from 300 to 2,000 gallon water tank capacities our V product line offers the most advanced and the most complete line of Hydro Excavation equipment available as well as the industry's leading and most advanced uh combination sewer cleaning line our combination sewer cleaners uh range uh with a variety of vacuum systems from centrifugal compressor to very large positive displacement blowers uh the line teing capabilities on these units range from 60 gallons a minute to 12 20 gallons a minute the protus mini cam is a brand new product that we introduced at the pumper show uh just a couple of weeks ago the Proteus product uh camera system is the industry's only uh battery powered Mainline inspection system the module that you see to your right also has a built-in computer and software package with a data recorder that is uh pacp compatible uh the ebok product line is the industry's most advanced pipeline inspection system the uh the lateral inspection system a leasy system offers the most effective lateral inspection in the industry as well as the panoramo system which is the industry's only completely digital inspection system the J raining companies all the products and then some that you just looked at are available to rent we have the the most aggressive of most advanced rental system and Rental Fleet available so if you have the need for an inspection piece of equipment a cleaning piece of equipment or a piece of vacuum equipment all you have to do is give us a call and one of our 18 locations we can get you the equipment uh almost overnight and uh again we'd like to thank Nasco and we for sponsoring such an important program and allowing us to be part of it hey thank thanks Dan our next sponsor is T4 spatial and my pleasure to introduce Ed Richards uh Ed actually recently provided us with a technical presentation about the use of asset management software nasco's annual conference Ed thank you very much Ted uh once again it's a pleasure to be part of this uh webinar and thank you so much for allowing T4 spatial the opportunity to be one of your sponsors um T4 spatial uh creates a cloudbased uh integration platform toate data from asset for Asset Management uh CCTV data GIS data operation and maintenance data engineering uh flow modeling compliance data it's all geospatial and is Nasco certified if least at the 60 level the ability to analyze prioritize and manage workflows from just your browser using data heavy data video storage in the cloud um integrated with your GIS and allowing for analytics uh and uh filter planning workflow management path management visible anywhere from any device any time the this these all add up into an architecture that looks similar to this slide here where the truck itself is uh streaming data from the the uh inspection process whether it's a truck or some other form of of capture technology into the cloud automatically synchronized with the GIS integated with third party asset management and work order system all userfriendly uh bya by via a browser by any of the stakeholders on the right here to consume and analyze and make decisions a quick overview of the of the of the product I'm going to drill into the actual web-based product online here and log into the product uh with is the standard browser this is s from the S Cruz Santa Cruz County and so it takes me geospatially into that area if I open up all the pipeline inspections that are relative to this particular uh area you can see on the line all the icons represent uh video inspection if I turn on the pipe manholes and GIS data consumed for pipes and and manholes and zoom in to a particular area you can see that everything is done on a pipe uh a manhole uh a manhole to manhole basis with a pipe segment in between in between and then a video inspection uh and if there was all the history be there there'd be more represented clicking on the icon allows us to see the highle structural pacp omm for pipe index as well as open the inspection stream it from the into your browser and actually allow the the consumer to to to consume the actual live uh live video or or the historical video make make certain changes to the inspection in terms of speed override volume controls look at all the pacp data that's captured from the all the observations that are done in the field editing of the observations is is is is allowed um tagging the inspections with follow-up activities like lining or spot repair or grouting or excavation and also viewing the history of the the inspection um the tabs also allow you to copy the URL and send the link to to a third party and have that person be able to open up the inspection along with you and collaborate on the repair and Remediation efforts or print the inspection in in an htl 5 generated report that's 60 uh version 60 giving you all the high level data including you know follow-up activities uh scores observations uh comments and line diagram including camera location caps uh camera flow and photos this this can be off can be put on your clipboard and and email to others to for folks to use you can also do um uh queries into the data and in the interest of time here I'm just going to do one query and then I'm going to turn this go back over to um Ted but in terms of looking at some 900 inspections here we look at at query in term terms of pipeline conditions and if we bring up in the browser we have all of the pipeline condition ition codes uh it as of 60 and we can't wait to add the new codes for 70 uh and if we grab into uh say you know rooted areas or Point repairs I grab roots and and check off the root codes uh the root codes here in query in and from my from some some 900 inspections I have 139 conditions that meet this time and Route but if I want to go in and maybe look at an an overall grade maybe I'll only look at the threes to fives and add those into my inspection and very easily you can see 39 conditions easy to create a report I'm doing this all online and dynamically and live I create the report open the report generate the report and you end up with um all your inspections uh that that need a particular a requirement this requirement so this is uh essentially um the the people for of a product line there's a bunch more to show you I urge you to contact me at your anytime you wish um to to um uh for for a demonstration or further information thank you so much for allowing people to be one of your sponsors thanks Ed um and and again thanks Jack de Haney and T4 spatial for uh sponsoring this webcast also want to thank our our speakers uh Gina Snider from EPA Lis Leon from D DM Smith Lori Perkins from rri Pierce and Jim Harris uh I want to thank everyone for calling in and I just want to leave you with it there were a lot of questions we did not get to all of them um we'll try to get follow up with answers to to some of those questions um you know when we can and and get back to you um and that's all we have thanks again for for calling in [Music]