[Music] hi Shannon Waller here and welcome to the inside strategic coach podcast with Dan Sullivan Dan a conversation came up in the workshop the other day particular with really around the topic of your lat one of your latest books which is who do you want to be a hero to and one of the comments that came up was heroism doesn't scale and you had a really interesting response to that which I thought would be you know everyone's interested in scaling the idea of being a hero to your clientele your customers your people in your life is a really attractive one but people see a real limit to that in terms of what's possible but you have a very different take on it so talk to me about how heroism doesn't scale and why that's not actually true first of all I'd like to say Shannon the Insight or the comment that the entrepreneur in the program said when he said it kind of shook me and I said oh oh wow and I had to go back overnight and I had to do some quick things thinking to stick to my original guns that heroism does scale but what it revealed for me is that there's two entirely different kinds of heroism in the world the majority of people think of heroism in a reactionary sense and what I mean is that there's some kind of Crisis where a system has broken down or you know what people were expecting didn't happen and you know there's a danger of loss and there's a danger you know of tremendous discomfort and inconvenience and we usually associate the word hero with the individual who steps forward and is part of the solution and gives other people confidence in a crisy situation and that's the way it's depicted crisis sells you know it sells in in the entertainment World it sells certainly in the news world so there's this tendency to put the spotlight on people who react to a scary situ ation that paralyzes other people and why they're heroic is because other people are paralyzed but they take action and they stand out they stand out and often times they're part of the solution if people make it through the experience okay then they remember this person forever and you know there's wartime stories there's disaster stories there's all sorts of emergency situations and there's a lot of drama packed into these so it's the subject of entertainment for people who live really kind of safe lives I'm thinking of Jack Reacher from one of our favorite novel yeah Jack Reacher is the master but he doesn't create any of the situations he comes upon really bad nasty corrupt criminal situations where people are being paralyzed or they're in danger of losing their lives or losing something else and he stands forward he's got some great model his my number one rule is retaliate first you know and you know it's really funny but that's someone we'd want to have in a dangerous situation someone who retaliates first so I would say that 99% of the first response that people when you mention the word hero it's related to someone who acted bravely courageously and decisively in a way that other people couldn't where a situation was paralyzing everybody else and the person as a savior you know they see that I love reading this I'm as much a sucker for a great reactionary hero story but it is reactionary heroism and the whole point is our world has become incredibly safer our world has become incredibly more predictable and thank God it has you know and for example Babs and I take anywhere between 40 and 50 flights together every year and not once during my entire flight experience do I want anyone to have to be a hero I want everything to work according to schedule according to the systems and there's a lot of different areas in my life in our case we live in two really big cities Toronto and Chicago and I want everything that makes living in that City comfortable and convenient I want it to work I don't want any heroism required people say well being a hero just isn't possible anymore but you have to understand that most people's work lives take place in large systems you know they work for bureaucracy of some sort and bureaucracy is very necessary for taking the crisis out of situations I mean a lot of people talk you know really really badmouth bureaucracy and I said you know there's a lot of people whose life is just to make sure that your life is not negatively exciting that's a a good journe yeah and I said you got to appreciate it I really appreciate you know in Toronto we have a really well-run City here and it's very safe I've lived here for 48 years I've never seen an act of violence in the city of Toronto and I don't know anyone who's ever experienced violence in the city of Toronto and I've been here for 48 years and it's a city now of six million people okay and it's clean it's a very clean City and it's a very well-maintained City and I wouldn't want it otherwise because there's just a freedom of living that comes when you know that things are supporting you they're running according to schedule so how in a world where everything's becoming more predictably safe convenient and comfortable where does heroism come in okay you know and somebody said well you know I work for this large corporation and if you try to be a hero you just get snuffed out they just isolate you and they bypass you if you try to be a hero and I said well you're kind of not understanding the purpose of the world that you're living in the whole purpose of a bureaucracy is to eliminate any future need for heroism everything's supposed to be predictable everything is supposed to be certain yeah and some of us are the type of people that add unpredictability so that's really not a system for us no and you're not welcome in the bureaucratic world if you add uncertain okay and they get rid of one way or another they put you in a room by yourself and you get a desk and nobody talks to you for the rest of your career and the reason is this is not a system that rewards heroism because the whole point of the system is to eliminate any need for heroism and you just make people uncomfortable by doing this so the only world where heroism is really possible in today's world is the Entre R preneurial world and that covers a vast number of different activities there's the entertainment world where people are entrepreneurs they take the risk of making it or getting broken by you know the entertainment World which includes the Sports World the number of individuals who strive to be successful in Industry where there's huge fans there's huge contracts and everything else but it's one in 10,000 who make it and everybody says look at this person did this all you have to do is do what this person did I said no that's not going to happen it's enormous amount of luck enormous amount of luck and the personal qualities that this individual has are just totally unique in the world and they're not really reproducible but being a hero in the Strategic coach world for entrepreneurs is an absolutely predictable activity if you understand that it's not about you it's about them okay so anytime you have a mindset which continually grows and expands that the whole purpose of me being an entrepreneur is not about me it's actually about the check writers and then it's about my team that helps me serve my check writers okay and they said well how do we know how to be a hero to the checkwriter and I say well one first step would be ask them yeah and we have a very very specific and unique way of asking people what really matters to them and it's a question we ask them that is completely absent of anything about us so you know it's called the Doss question and we have a book on it it's called The Dan Sullivan question because the moment I put this out about 20 years ago everybody put their name on it so I said why don't I put my name on it since I came up with it and why don't I get the proper intellectual property protection so nobody can use this question and our if you use this and call it your question then I mean you can use the question I'm not stopping any I want as many people as possible to ask the question but don't put a book out or a course out where you say well this is the question but the question is you ask someone if we were having a discussion and it was three years from today so you name the date today is such and such a day in three years same day same month 3 years from now and we're having a discussion then and we're looking back over your last three years what has to happen for you over that threeyear period for you to feel very very happy with your progress okay one of two things will happen the person will answer the question or the person won't answer the question why won't they answer the question they don't trust you which is very useful to know upfront okay because you're only looking for people who trust you so when someone says well I'm sorry you know that's kind of personal and um we don't know each other well enough that I would give you that information well one thing's true they won't give you the information now and they won't give you the information anytime in the future so you've just saved yourself an enormous amount of guessing and bother of trying to develop a relationship who in the first minute or first two minutes they told you I don't want to have a relationship with you oh boy boy you sure saved me a lot of time here but if they answer the question they'll usually talk for a half hour they'll give you an answer that'll last for a half hour or an hour and they'll talk and talk and talk and talk and then you can really fine-tune their answer by asking them three other questions so over this three years you know that you're happy with your progress well what are the three biggest dangers you have right now in your life that have to be completely eliminated these dangers have to be eliminated now so 3 years from now you can't have these dangers and danger refers to things that people are afraid of losing okay so what can you lose well you can lose your business you can lose your life you can lose your reputation any number of things that we have that we can lose but this is something you already have and you're going to lose it and it keeps you up at night makes you anxious you know it kind of paralyzes you and everything else but the moment the person is given the opportunity to actually tell the truth truth about what dangers are that have to be eliminated within this three-year framework then all of a sudden you can just see them wow yeah yeah and I've got this and I've got this and I've got this and I've got this and you can write out a list and it doesn't matter how many they tell you it's all good because at the end you're going to say well of this whole list which are the three most important ones okay and then the second thing you say okay well what about opportunities and an opportunity is the opposite of a d an opportunity is the possibility of gaining something new better bigger in the future again as many different areas where you could lose things you can also have opportunities for making big breakthroughs and gains and same thing they brainstorm and you write them down and then the final one is strengths what strengths do you already have this would be capabilities knowledge you know kind of unique advantages you have in the marketplace unque kind of organizational capabilities you have that you want to maximize you've got something great here but you're not taking full use of it and there's three things that you just really want to maximize over the next three years you know they give you and say okay now we're not going to deal with everything but what are the three dangers the three opportunities and the three strengths that you would go after first because actually if you solve the three dangers a lot of the other dangers get solved same thing with opportunities same thing with strengths and it's just the greatest conversation that anyone has ever had in their life because no one that they've ever known their personal friends their family anybody through the school system the teachers because everybody else only wants to know about their future as it concerns the person asking the question but the Doss isn't about me at all I just want to create value for a person so that you know if there's any chance that we would work together I can't do everything that's going to make this person happy but if I can get them talking for an hour or an hour and a half I can find out something where I can help them or I can connect them to someone else who would help them in any way I'm being a pure hero to this person now this is available to every human being on the planet in any relationship they have but it's completely voluntary it's completely voluntary you're not being forced fored to ask this question you're not being forced to listen for an hour and a half you're not forced to actually have your attention totally on that person but I have to tell you giving a person in this framework a half hour of your attention an hour of your attention hour and a half and then looping back and actually sending them back a letter afterwards this was a great conversation I just want you to know you know this is what you talked about there are a few things that I write off the bat I can help you with related to this and this and this and if you'd like to I'd like to help you with it and I know a lot of other people who I can introduce you to that can help and this is pure heroism in the 21st century and it's only available in the entrepreneurial world you would never do this in the bureaucratic World You' never do this in the world of big systems okay first of all people wouldn't tell you the information because it would have political implications and entrepreneurism there's no politics oh that is so true it's a politics free world if you really are just putting your full attention on them being clear about their future as they want their future to be it's not how you want their future to be this is how they want their future to be and the interesting thing is there are very few human beings on the planet who can sit there and listen and not relate it back to them but it's like a skill it's like a capability and I've had people who never came to strategic coach but 20 years ago at a conference or at a meeting I sat with him at lunch or breakfast or dinner I said I just want to ask you a question and I asked him the question and I talk and I just sort of organized the thinking and I said well here's what you said and they said this is so amazing this is amazing and he said but I have to tell you you know your program isn't really what I want I said no bother I said I just felt really great that you were willing to share this with me and I hope this does you good and 20 years later I'll meet them somewhere casually I'll meet them socially or anything and they say I want to tell you you're one of the greatest persons I remember for my entire life because just that hour and a half you gave me or whatever the time frame was it utterly changed my life and this is what I've done over the last 20 years and they remember the conversation they remember the dangers they remember the opportunities they don't necessarily use the word but you're a complete hero to me he says I've told hundreds of people about you and actually I've put about five people into the Strategic coach program you may not know where they came from this person this person this person so the whole point is this is completely creative heroism and the reason is it's just your willingness to give someone else your full attention and then to help them to the the best degree that you can to be much clearer much more capable and much more confident about their future and I don't think that there's a greater Act of creative heroism in the world than just to do that and all you have to do is be willing to suspend your own self-interest for an hour and that's totally heroic it totally is Dan one of the things I really love about the r factor which is the very first question the whole Doss conversation is it allows you to stay really current with your clients and you will always be a hero to them because one of the dangers I see with some businesses is they get sort of stuck into a way of operating and they don't keep current and the world's changing and they feel kind of threatened and they're like what's happening but if you simply can practice and master this creative heroism by having the Doss conversation you are never behind the eightball you are always ahead yeah and one of the things is why entrepreneurs should be really prosperous and really profitable because you want to get to a point where any new person you meet you don't need the sale cash flows handled you've got Surplus so when the 2008 you know the great What's called the Great Recession happened it became clear that it wasn't just happening to a particular industry it was happening to the entire economy so I remember my workshops for one quarter I said if you don't make a sale over the next quarter how many of you are okay financially you've got savings you got Surplus you know everything's taken care of and you know I would say 80 90% of the room put their hand up and I said well here's the thing people who are your customers and clients so I want you to pick out your top 20 customers or clients and I said I want you to set up a meeting and it's breakfast it's lunch don't do it at their office do it socially breakfast and the checks on you by the way they're not paying and you go out and just ask them where things are right now not the next three years but a year from now based on what's just happened to you what do you want to be able to say a year from now when we are having this conversation that you're very very happy with the progress you made during this 12 months when everybody else was failing what do you want to be able to say and it's the same conversations that 3 years but they're in a much tougher situation right now so you can narrow the T they won't be able to think of three years if things are kind of dire but here's the other thing is and I know in all Consulting and financial services the number one reason why the entrepreneurs lost their customers during the Great Recession is that they stopped communicating with their customers and they said well I don't have anything to communicate because they aren't buying anything and I said said well why don't you sell them on their own future I said they've lost their future why don't you sell them a new future they're buying a new future they're buying a new future so why don't you just go out for the next quarter and the people who did it said they had their best quarter in their business career wow they had money but they were paralyzed right you know they weren't buying your future but they were buying their Futures and most entrepreneurs try to sell their customers the entrepreneurs future they're not buying your f this is a quarter when nobody's going to buy your future so why don't you sell them their future I love that Dan I read stories and you and I enjoy the similar types of novels I'm only really familiar with the framework of being a reactive hero this whole idea of creative of being a creative hero is so exciting and you don't have to make it up you actually ask the person and you the dolls conversation is just the most brilliant structure for getting it and then you know exactly how to create value doing what you're best at and what your team is best at so it's just this unending formula and you know we're not going to talk about that as much today but it gives you a value creation Monopoly because you have created so much Clarity and confidence and capability with them you're the only person they want to work with it's so powerful well and especially I mean half your competition isn't even going to get out of bed that morning and the other ones are scared because they don't have anything to sell right so they cut off and they sto going out and I said well don't even have it be a business meeting have it be a social event where you're treating them and not only are you picking up the check but the conversation's entirely about them I would pay for that experience I know when I've been asked the Doss conversation it's such even though I know it like I know the Doss conversation really well after all these years and when I'm on the receiving end it's a completely different experience it is so refreshing to have it be about me there's no defenses up I'm not being sold it's about my future and when someone listens attentively it is a brilliant experience so well here's the thing that I think all human beings are born with a 100% capability to have life be about them I think it's true babies I mean babies you're just a shape and you either feed them or you don't feed them and they grade you on that basis but this what we're talking about here this is a learned skill and you got to learn this skill not just that you be nice to other people and you learn how to communicate to people develop the skill of setting aside everything about you for a half hour an hour an hour and a half and just have everything your experience your skills your capabilities your insights but most of all your full attention just be about another person I said that's an incredible skill and and I have to tell you it works in all situations regardless of what's happening to the economy what's happening with the world the ability to suspend your own attention on yourself and directed to another person pure heroism fantastic Dan I love this conversation on Creative versus reactive heroism and the recipe for how to always be a hero thank you yes thank you at strategic coach we focus on growth in every area of your business and life leading to Freedom that Entre R preneurs dream of join Dan Sullivan founder of strategic coach for a brand new OnDemand web presentation it's a breakthrough hour of wisdom insight and proven strategies over 18,000 entrepreneurs can't be wrong watch today at Dan webinar.com [Music]